PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: rastalant on June 21, 2001, 06:22:53 AM
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http://www.tendobox.com/cgi-bin/news/viewnews.cgi?category=3&id=993070255
I know ps2 can push more ploys but after reading this arctle its saying ps2 has more overall horsepower than gamecube. Here\'s the scary part this is coming from a nintendo page?!?!!?!? What do you guys make of this?
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I thought this was pretty much common knowledge by now. The EE is the most powerful processor of all of them. Doesn\'t mean the system is the most powerful, but the processor is.
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Imagine the possibilties if only the PS2 had more than 4mb...........
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From what I gather, Sony took a ton of the most powerful things and threw them together. Unfortunately, it didn\'t work out too well and the result is less than you\'d think.
Nintendo, on the other hand, doesn\'t have the most powerful everything, but they put it together to work well, so it maximizes the power that\'s there.
Actual comparisons are not my bag, though, and there isn\'t any two people who can agree on that, anyway.
-Eik
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From what I gather, Sony took a ton of the most powerful things and threw them together. Unfortunately, it didn\'t work out too well and the result is less than you\'d think.
Funny isn’t that similar to what Nintendo did for the N64???
Nintendo, on the other hand, doesn\'t have the most powerful everything, but they put it together to work well, so it maximizes the power that\'s there
Again isn\'t that what sony had for the PS1
From the looks of it Nintendo and sony have swirched shoes in the hardware setup this time round.
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That may be true theogodlything, But who currently has a succsessful console, with great developer support, and market share? SONY. It\'ll be to late for Nintendo or Microsoft to overtake Sony in November...
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True SONY does have a head start, but who knows 3 years from now, alot can change.
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It will take a while. I plan on getting an Xbox and Gamecube, so I get the best of both worlds.
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who cares, great games on great consoles
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Originally posted by CS2x
Imagine the possibilties if only the PS2 had more than 4mb...........
its alot better than 4 mb ram. if you use it as a frame buffer, or somthing like that it works alot better, in fact, a TON better. developers are only begining to understand how useful this 4 mb can be to them. Jak and Daxter is using this to the extreme, and it is noticible, very noticible.
trust me, the ps2 isnt as weak as you may think.
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Originally posted by Weltall
. The EE is the most powerful processor of all of them.
I suggest you compare the E.E. to the xbox gpu before you make wild statemnets like this. E.E is far cry from being more powerful than the Nivdia2A.
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The E.E. is a CPU. The NVidia is a GPU. There is a difference, yunno. You can compare the NV2A to the Graphics Synthesizer, because they are both GPUs, and the NVidia is much better. But the E.E. is also much better than the Pentium III, which is the XBox\'s processor. The PS2 is a better number cruncher, and the XBox is a better graphics machine. I don\'t know a lot about the finer points of computer technology, but even this is obvious. You\'re comparing apples to oranges.
Twit:)
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Originally posted by Weltall
The E.E. is a CPU. The NVidia is a GPU. There is a difference, yunno. You can compare the NV2A to the Graphics Synthesizer, because they are both GPUs, and the NVidia is much better. But the E.E. is also much better than the Pentium III, which is the XBox\'s processor. The PS2 is a better number cruncher, and the XBox is a better graphics machine. I don\'t know a lot about the finer points of computer technology, but even this is obvious. You\'re comparing apples to oranges.
Twit:)
Well not quite seeing how the E.E is the main processor in the ps2. And the cpu in xbox only handles minor operation and gpu is where all the work is done so you compare the 2. It would be different if the xbox cpu is where the power comes from but it is not it is the gpu. And the E.E is where the ps2 power comes from. So you can compare the 2. (And don\'t you call me no twit:D
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I was only referring to the CPU. I said above that just having a better CPU doesn\'t mean the system is more powerful. The reason XBox has better visuals is because the EE is tied down in graphics work while XBox\'s P3 is not. But if you matched the EE and the NV2A, you would truly have the ultimate gaming system.
*points and screams TWIT:D*
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Originally posted by Weltall
But if you matched the EE and the NV2A, you would truly have the ultimate gaming system.
*points and screams TWIT:D*
True very true I agree with you.( And once again I am not a twit:D
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Originally posted by Weltall
I thought this was pretty much common knowledge by now. The EE is the most powerful processor of all of them. Doesn\'t mean the system is the most powerful, but the processor is.
The EE without vector units is just a MIPS processor with SSE like instructions like the Pentium III. Its the vector units that have been added to the EE that make it powerfull. The vector type units would be on the NV2A GPU on the Xbox along with SSE on the Pentium III. The vector units have to work simutaineously with the MIPS chip to get the 6 Gigaflop rating which almost never happens.
The reason why they think the PS2 is probably more powerfull because its more programmable than that of the gamecube. The vector units can be programmed to do physics or whatever you like, while the gamecube uses a fixed T&L Unit. The Xbox like you already know is programmable as well all the way to the vertex level and even down to the Pixel level where not even the PS2 can do this without a MAJOR speed loss that would so great, the game would not be playable.
The gamecube has the better textures by far than the PS2. The polygons are debatable at this point, but I think at this point in time the gamecube can also do more polys as well without as much slowdown.
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1. The GameCube can do over 30mpps with 1 texture. Try that PS2.
2. This Q/A from IGNCube sums things up pretty nicely.
Hey guys,
I\'ve been looking around sites like Tendo Box and recently I\'ve been hearing that the GCN uses open GL, making it easier to develop for, but makes it less powerful then the PS2. What\'s the deal, is it more powerful or weaker?
Fran responds: I\'m pretty sure we\'ve revealed the OpenGL feature before. You could most recently see this in the Embedded Processor Forum presentation. Anyhow, OpenGL is a powerful API that is a standard across the boards. Nintendo chose to use this format because so many people had trouble tapping into the power of the N64, which was a completely proprietary format. It\'s the same with the PS2. As to power, anyone saying that simply because it uses an OpenGL format makes it less powerful is missing the idea. OpenGL is on GameCube to let developers get results right away. If you want to microcode and perform fancy tricks you can do that as well. Just look at products like Rogue Leader and Wave Race. Nothing on the PS2 has touched those in terms of visuals yet.
The PS2 has an advantage because anyone who masters the CPU, Vector Units, and Graphic Synthesizer can get some really custom effects going, and have lots of control over their program. Again, the problem is it takes around three or four years to accomplish this. By that time, the system is fading out. So, I repeat, the GameCube isn\'t less powerful than the PS2. From what developers have been saying, it\'s just the opposite. GameCube is the most powerful home console to date, and once final Xbox hardware is being demonstrated it will rank just as high. PS2 is a year older than these consoles. It\'s inherently "outdated" (I use that very loosely) in technology.
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Jumpman the nintendo(tendo box) page is the one that said ps2 is more powerful than gamecube. As far as 30million and 1 texture, I\'m not sure if ps2 can do that. But look at the specs ps2 with effects on 20mps and gamecube with effects on 6-12mps so thats the facts. I know ps2 beats gamecube in ploygon count for a fact. Gamecube came out almost 2 years after ps2 shouldn\'t it be alot more powerful than ps2?
The Q/A thing from igncube what do you expect them to say of course there going to say its more powerful than ps2, heck this is the same page that confirmed ttt and rr5 for gamecube. So its not like I really trust them. Gamecube is going to be powerful as xbox final develpment kits?? !!!! Bull................
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Originally posted by raslant
Jumpman the nintendo(tendo box) page is the one that said ps2 is more powerful than gamecube. As far as 30million and 1 texture, I\'m not sure if ps2 can do that. But look at the specs ps2 with effects on 20mps and gamecube with effects on 6-12mps so thats the facts. I know ps2 beats gamecube in ploygon count for a fact. Gamecube came out almost 2 years after ps2 shouldn\'t it be alot more powerful than ps2?
Whoa, I think you\'ve got a few things completely misunderstood there. The specs indicate that the Gamecube can do 6 - 12 mpps in game with all effects on. Now I\'d say that that\'s damn impressive. In raw numbers, IGN has stated numerous times that it should be around 90 mpps. So to answer your question; yes, the GC is more powerful than the PS2 (initially) as it should be.
The Q/A thing from igncube what do you expect them to say of course there going to say its more powerful than ps2, heck this is the same page that confirmed ttt and rr5 for gamecube. So its not like I really trust them. Gamecube is going to be powerful as xbox final develpment kits?? !!!! Bull................ [/B]
IGNCube, along with ps2.ign and xbox.ign, is a professional gaming website. They have strict regulations on running false stories and facts; the writer gets fired. You\'d be an idiot to not trust them.
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Originally posted by Mithrandir
Whoa, I think you\'ve got a few things completely misunderstood there. The specs indicate that the Gamecube can do 6 - 12 mpps in game with all effects on. Now I\'d say that that\'s damn impressive. In raw numbers, IGN has stated numerous times that it should be around 90 mpps. So to answer your question; yes, the GC is more powerful than the PS2 (initially) as it should be.
Ps2 can do 20mps ingame as well and thats impressive as well. As far as the 90mps that with no effects just like ps2 can do 75mps with no effects. We will never see those ploys count in game. Even if the gamecube is more powerful than ps2 it should be since its newer technology.
IGNCube, along with ps2.ign and xbox.ign, is a professional gaming website. They have strict regulations on running false stories and facts; the writer gets fired. You\'d be an idiot to not trust them.
True but you figure that igncube is going to be nintendo baised just like ignps2 would be ps2 baised. If you asked igncube whats going to be the best system what do you think they would say? Proably gamecube. They have posted false stories before like TTT and RR5 comfired for gamecube.
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Damn, I couldn\'t access this site a few hours ago. Oh well, I copied my reply.
Jumpman the nintendo(tendo box) page is the one that said ps2 is more powerful than gamecube
They\'re just quoting a developer.
As far as 30million and 1 texture, I\'m not sure if ps2 can do that. But look at the specs ps2 with effects on 20mps and gamecube with effects on 6-12mps so thats the facts. I know ps2 beats gamecube in ploygon count for a fact.
You got those specs all ****ed up.
PS2=20mpps+1 texture
NGC=6-12+8 textures
You decide which one is more powerful from that. GameCube can also push over 90mpps RAW. PS2 can only do 66-75. I can we know which can push more now.
Gamecube came out almost 2 years after ps2 shouldn\'t it be alot more powerful than ps2?
I don\'t see Xbox being 2-3X more powerful than the PS2. What\'s up with that? Fact is, while PS2 is extremely poweful, it will be many years before developers can crack out the full power of it. With GameCube and Xbox we\'ll see better looking games earlier, and probably later too.
The Q/A thing from igncube what do you expect them to say of course there going to say its more powerful than ps2, heck this is the same page that confirmed ttt and rr5 for gamecube. So its not like I really trust them. Gamecube is going to be powerful as xbox final develpment kits?? !!!! Bull................
IGNCube is by far the most reliable GameCube site on the internet. They didn\'t comfirm it, Namco did.
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Okay if gamecube has 90mps and ps2 75mps with effects off. Then why does ps2(20mps) has more in game ploys than gamecube(6-12mps). As for xbox spec wise it blows ps2 away even though I haven\'t seen any developer utilzie the system except for tecmo with doa3. Yes xbox is more powerful than gamecube and ps2.
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Originally posted by raslant
Okay if gamecube has 90mps and ps2 75mps with effects off. Then why does ps2(20mps) has more in game ploys than gamecube(6-12mps). and ps2.
The answer is when you looked at the specs you obviously didn\'t see the texture part. GameCube can do 6-12mpps with 8 textures, and PS2 can do 20mpps with only 1 texture. Don\'t you know the importance of having good textures?
As for xbox spec wise it blows ps2 away even though I haven\'t seen any developer utilzie the system except for tecmo with doa3. Yes xbox is more powerful than gamecube and ps2
I could care less since the games for Xbox don\'t interest me. And we don\'t play graphics on our TVs right?
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Originally posted by raslant
True but you figure that igncube is going to be nintendo baised just like ignps2 would be ps2 baised. If you asked igncube whats going to be the best system what do you think they would say?
Pfft, of course they will!! You think IGNCube will say that their job clings to a console that\'ll receive a mighty ass whupping from Sony?? Besides, it\'s not like they\'re saying that the NES is more powerful than the PS2; they must have some hard facts to back up those words.
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They have posted false stories before like TTT and RR5 comfired for gamecube.
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I pity da foo that believes that jibberjabber. :D IGN merely said that there\'s a strong possibility that those titles will be ported to the GC. They never actually confirmed it.
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Originally posted by Jumpman
The answer is when you looked at the specs you obviously didn\'t see the texture part. GameCube can do 6-12mpps with 8 textures, and PS2 can do 20mpps with only 1 texture. Don\'t you know the importance of having good textures?
I could care less since the games for Xbox don\'t interest me. And we don\'t play graphics on our TVs right?
Okay, since gamecube does do more textures than ps2 then why aren\'t there textures no better looking? Look at starfox adventure textures\' to FF10 textures IMO FF10 textures kill SFA. On gamecube I haven\'t seen textures that touch sonic adventure 2. Yes I bought it the other day and those are proably the best textures I since in any game. Personally I haven\'t seen any mind-blowing gamecube textures so far. What ever happen to texturzilla?
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Originally posted by raslant
Okay, since gamecube does do more textures than ps2 then why aren\'t there textures no better looking? Look at starfox adventure textures\' to FF10 textures IMO FF10 textures kill SFA. On gamecube I haven\'t seen textures that touch sonic adventure 2. Yes I bought it the other day and those are proably the best textures I since in any game. Personally I haven\'t seen any mind-blowing gamecube textures so far. What ever happen to texturzilla?
Have you ever seen Rogue Leader in action yet? It doesn\'t seem like it.
Anyways, only 3 NGC games at E3 were running on the final hardware; Pikmin, Luigi\'s Mansion, and Rogue Leader. Evidently, they\'re the 3 best looking NGC games!
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I dont care witch is more powerful really. Gamecube will probley look better . ps2 might not look again , but i still would play my old nintendo if I still had it , graphics dont really matter to me , but slowdown does . and slowdown ruins ac2 ( armored core 2 )
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Developers have had a year to work with on the PS2. The best I have seen out of the PS2 is at most equal with RS on just-finished hardware of the GameCube.
What does this tell us ladies and gentlemen?
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Originally posted by Lord of Darkness
Developers have had a year to work with on the PS2. The best I have seen out of the PS2 is at most equal with RS on just-finished hardware of the GameCube.
What does this tell us ladies and gentlemen?
Correction, some PS2 developers have been working with final hardware for over two years. If you somehow believe this means GC devs are just beginning to unlock the Cubes power, all I can say is you\'re not following what\'s going on very closely.
Taking at face value the earlier quote of about 3-4 years to learn how to use the PS2, it would mean that in another year or so PS2 devs will know as much about how to get the most from PS2 as GC devs know now about it in terms of performance. Do you follow me?
Before anyone flips out about me being a Sony fanboy, please know this: I think GC is a fantastic next gen system that will most definitely meet and exceed, graphics and gameplay wise, the expectations of any fan that plays it. What could be better?
To continue, the 90mpps for GC is an old number. As far as I can tell the announced downgrade for the GC graphics chip (along with the CPU upgrade) would put the raw pps count of the GC on all most equal footing with the PS2 [GS]. If I\'m way off on this point, please sing it out loud and clear. I\'m on very shaky ground when I get near to tech talk and am always willing to try to understand things better. p.s. try not to BS
To those that continue tosay "it about the games, not the power" I would respond; then why are you reading this crap instead of playing games?
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Another think to keep in mind, is that PS2 so far is the hardest system to develop for. Hence the learnng curve is much greater for it than XBOX, or GC.
-Ramon
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Originally posted by Jumpman
Have you ever seen Rogue Leader in action yet? It doesn\'t seem like it.
Anyways, only 3 NGC games at E3 were running on the final hardware; Pikmin, Luigi\'s Mansion, and Rogue Leader. Evidently, they\'re the 3 best looking NGC games!
Yes I seen the RS2 movie and it is very impressive. But as far as texture go pikmin didn\'t look so good to me(yes I saw it in motion). Luigi Manison looked good mostly the lighting(textures once again isn\'t so hot) but doesn\'t blow away what I seen from ps2 or dc.
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I know ps2 can push more ploys but after reading this arctle its saying ps2 has more overall horsepower than gamecube.
Here\'s the scary part this is coming from a nintendo page?!?!!?!? What do you guys make of this?[/qoute]
Look at pics, in ps2 you can see further on the screen. And pus the pokemon on nintendo will take over. After GC it will be called pokeball and look like a pikachu!
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I will do my best to refrain from posting worthless comments in these wonderful forums, I realize that my replies often lack any real thought behind them, and I will try to do better in the future. Sorry.
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Originally posted by Mithrandir
They have posted false stories before like TTT and RR5 comfired for gamecube.
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I pity da foo that believes that jibberjabber. :D IGN merely said that there\'s a strong possibility that those titles will be ported to the GC. They never actually confirmed it. [/B]
No no no. According to Jumpman, the PSX2central all-knowing Nintendo lover, "IGNCube is by far the most reliable GameCube site on the internet. They didn\'t comfirm it, Namco did.
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Originally posted by IronFist
I pity da foo that believes that jibberjabber. :D IGN merely said that there\'s a strong possibility that those titles will be ported to the GC. They never actually confirmed it.
No no no. According to Jumpman, the PSX2central all-knowing Nintendo lover, "IGNCube is by far the most reliable GameCube site on the internet. They didn\'t comfirm it, Namco did. [/B][/QUOTE]
I know ironfist what ever happen to "igncube is the most reliable site" i guess jumpman doesn\'t know what to say now. Thats just fanboy jibberjabber if you think namco\'s going to make gamecube is going to be the target system over ps2.
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Igncube asked Factor 5 about how much the graphics would increase from 1st generation games to 2nd and 3rd and on.. they said that there would be a huge difference. Plus guys, all the GC games so far aren\'t 1st gen. They are pre-1st generation as the system has yet to come out and they have about 6 more months to be worked on till the launch, which is a whole lotta time, considering that Miyamoto said that you could get a good, quality graphics game out of the cube in 6-12 months. These games will definitly improve more then you all think. I don\'t know where this "The cube is maxed out at launch" kind of thing came from. Its not. Just wait awhile and you\'ll see.
Also on the Texture and Poly debate, the Star Destroyer in Rogue Leader is 8 mpgps by itself, not to mension the backdrops and starfighters flying around it, with all AI running, at 60 frames per second no slow down. It all comes down to the fun factor people :wedge: :D
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GC will perform more efficiantly, with better graphics. It doesn\'t matter if one or 2 parts on PS2 are more powerful.... GC will be more powerful in practice.
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Originally posted by raslant
I know ironfist what ever happen to "igncube is the most reliable site" i guess jumpman doesn\'t know what to say now. Thats just fanboy jibberjabber if you think namco\'s going to make gamecube is going to be the target system over ps2.
Well, according to this (http://cube.ign.com/news/31962.html), Namco seems to be willing to throw some of its support for the GC. And why the IGNcube bashing?? It IS the most reliable Nintendo site on the net.
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Originally posted by hyper
Well, according to this (http://cube.ign.com/news/31962.html), Namco seems to be willing to throw some of its support for the GC. And why the IGNcube bashing?? It IS the most reliable Nintendo site on the net.
Hmmmmmmmm......the same namco said there going to throw support behind the dc and the only good game they brought out was soul cailbur. So I guess we will have to wait and see.