PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: QuDDus on June 28, 2001, 08:54:14 PM
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Sony has had the most successful console in video game history. And the ps2 was well worthy of being the second heir to the playstion thrown. But with tougher competiton and and advance hardware. Ps2 could very well loose it\'s crown.
Sony has attempted to change ps2 into a striped down pc. Offering real player and real network programs. Allowing email, instant messaging, and other internet capabilties to go along with a 40 gig hdd, and a stand-alone lcd display and ethernet connection.(In addition too it\'s dvd and cd playabilities)
Maybe sony wants to appeal to a more diverse age group who knows. But time will tell how this new strategy will effect the way gamers see the ps2.
Now it seems like online gaming will be the next best thing to hit a video game console. But unlike one of sonys competitors. Ps2 gamers are plagued with having to buy add-ons to experience online playability. While xbox comes with BB right out of the box which guarantee\'s that every xbox owner can experience online gaming. Video game companys already http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010516/sfw047.html have started raving over microsoft choice to put those features right into Xbox. (And announced there games)
All I am saying is that it is something to think about. Xbox and gamecube offer technical advances over sonys ps2. And I am not saying just because xbox and gamecube are more powerful than ps2 that it means ps2 will fall. Xbox has the best specs out of all the next gen console to ship, but it is a new comer competing with house hold names. And Ps2 has some of the best titles you will get on a console. So it is a force to be reckon. I guess time will tell.
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Competition = better games. It will all work out in the end.
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Unfortunately MS\' strategy of including all the neccessary network adapters out of the box will not mean that all gamers that one an X-Box will be able to experience online gaming. Because of the fact that MS decided to stick to a broadband only solution and because broadband has been slower comming than many predicted odds are that there will be as many X-Box users able to play online with their boadband conection (read: not many) as there will be PS2 owners that went out and bought a network adapter (read: not many).
Not that I care since I have access to broadband and narrowband, albeit my cable modem is nowhere near tapping the potential of a cable conection.
Other than that point on which I disagree it\'s going to be a hell of a war and I\'m gona be playing triple agent. :D
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Originally posted by kangu-G^Ltt^s
Unfortunately MS\' strategy of including all the neccessary network adapters out of the box will not mean that all gamers that one an X-Box will be able to experience online gaming. Because of the fact that MS decided to stick to a broadband only solution
It does mean all xbox owners will be able to experience online gaming if they sign up for bb access. Who wants to play games on 56k? Too much pausing and it takes too long to download levels. Ahh 56K is so crappy for online gaming.
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WHo in there right mind would game with a 56k modem.
It\'s just insane, SEGA put so much work in the DC online gamming, yet it lags, and is very slow. I remeber SEGA saying that they didn\'t make VT online cause they needed cable to do it.
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-XBOX
By that same logic ALL PS2 owners and NGC owners can experience online gaming by buying the network adapters.
The fact of the matter is that broadband is very expensive at the moment, and if Microsoft is really going to sell the 100 million consoles it so confidently claims it will sell odds are that less than 10 % of owners will be able to experience online gaming. It;s a shame that so many people will be paying for the adapter included in the console yet because they have no choice and are unable to obtain a broadband connection will have it rendered obsolete.
The fact is MS should have included narrowband in it\'s online plans. You can dissmiss it and say things like "who wants to play on a modem, modems suck for online gaming", but the people who have no access to broadband don\'t think so. I am very much sure that narrowbanders would rather play on their 56k modems than not play at all.
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Originally posted by XBOX
It does mean all xbox owners will be able to experience online gaming if they sign up for bb access. Who wants to play games on 56k? Too much pausing and it takes too long to download levels. Ahh 56K is so crappy for online gaming.
Broadband isnt available in all areas, so all Xbox users wont be able to. And it is very expensive so not everyone can afford it yet, I imagine the price will come down.
But I dont really care. I can live without online gaming.
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WHo in there right mind would game with a 56k modem.
Those who can\'t afford Cable/DSL or don\'t have Broadband in their area.
- dm
- the trick is to keep breathing.
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ive said it time and time again
the XBOX will never match the PS\'s user base
two years later and it lacks certain features that appeal to the "adult" crowd, which tends to purchase most consoles.
i would be suprised even if the gamecube can match the PS\'s user base.
*disclaimer*
"im not cutting down the XBOX. im sure its a fine little console that would be yer best friend if u asked it nicely. please save all threats and insults as to not end up like ethugg"
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striped down pc
HAHHA! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Thats the funniest thing Ive ever heard..
LOL!
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Originally posted by XBOX
It does mean all xbox owners will be able to experience online gaming if they sign up for bb access. Who wants to play games on 56k? Too much pausing and it takes too long to download levels. Ahh 56K is so crappy for online gaming.
yeah but there are areas that dont have bb ability, my city is 6th in the U.S. in bb access but my suburb doesnt have it
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Yes Xbox might come with BB out of the box,but the DVD doesnt, you have to buy a remote,which will probably be something STUPID like $40,which in that case is the same as the ps2, because that is how much the modem/BB add-on is going to be for the ps2
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Originally posted by fastson
striped down pc
HAHHA! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Thats the funniest thing Ive ever heard..
LOL!
The TRUTH has never been so funny...not to mention ironic. ;)
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Originally posted by mm
ive said it time and time again
the XBOX will never match the PS\'s user base
two years later and it lacks certain features that appeal to the "adult" crowd, which tends to purchase most consoles.
i would be suprised even if the gamecube can match the PS\'s user base.
*disclaimer*
"im not cutting down the XBOX. im sure its a fine little console that would be yer best friend if u asked it nicely. please save all threats and insults as to not end up like ethugg"
You sure seem confident that PS2 will manage to outsell two more powerful consoles. On top of that Sony has no intention of dropping the price of the PS2. Consumers don\'t care about "franchise" titles, they care about graphics. If they see an Xbox and GameCube kiosk inside their retailer and then compare them to the PS2 graphics and then look at the price tag, which non-biased casual consumer would pick a $299 PS2 over the more powerful Xbox for $299. When they see the PS2 next to the $199 GC the only reservation they\'re going to have is this: "Something must be wrong with the Xbox and GCN because if they\'re more powerful why do they cost the same (or less than) the PS2?" PS2 fans on this board seems to think that everyone who owns a PSX is a hardcore and loyal Sony fan. The truth of the matter is that they\'ll jump ship in a heart beat.
MM, I wouldn\'t bet on PS2 winning. 60 million PSX owners have not committed to PS2 yet. Plus the majority of the 10 million PS2 owners are hardcore gamers that will own all three systems. Those are potential future Xbox and Game Cube owners. I will guarantee that PS2 sales won\'t continue to be brisk...like all consoles PS2 will go through a sales drought. If you noticed, it\'s no longer hard to find PS2\'s. In fact, it\'s actually harder to get RID of them now.
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Originally posted by DirectXbox
You sure seem confident that PS2 will manage to outsell two more powerful consoles. On top of that Sony has no intention of dropping the price of the PS2. Consumers don\'t care about "franchise" titles, they care about graphics. If they see an Xbox and GameCube kiosk inside their retailer and then compare them to the PS2 graphics and then look at the price tag, which non-biased casual consumer would pick a $299 PS2 over the more powerful Xbox for $299. When they see the PS2 next to the $199 GC the only reservation they\'re going to have is this: "Something must be wrong with the Xbox and GCN because if they\'re more powerful why do they cost the same (or less than) the PS2?" PS2 fans on this board seems to think that everyone who owns a PSX is a hardcore and loyal Sony fan. The truth of the matter is that they\'ll jump ship in a heart beat.
So much to say, so little space/time! First, I agree with everyone stating something to the effect that the world isn\'t completely ready for online gaming. Having the online capability come with the PS2 would have probably upped the price. I, like many people, aren\'t that much in to online gaming. Probably most people buying a PS2 don\'t plan on playing online just yet. Why buy something with parts that you won\'t even use until you can afford it? My neighborhood just got BB, and no one has yet to switch over to it. Everyone is skeptical, give them time.
Now, DirectXbox, Consumers DO care about "franchise" titles more than graphics. I sometimes have friends come over who would rather play my NES than PS2 because I currently have a kick-butt collection of titles. The Whole reason I bought a PS2 (I never had a PSX) is that I wanted to play the new stuff, and the giant collection of old stuff. Quality of gameplay preceeds quality of graphics. Think about it, would you play a game just because it has good graphics? Get a screen saver. If and when I buy an xbox and/or gc, it\'ll be when they have a larger quantity of quality games that my PS2 can\'t provide. Sony has the family name that has proven itself. gc does also, that\'s why I feel that it will do well too. But it\'s a journey upstream for xbox. Even though it will probably do well.
My point in sumarry:
Not everyone is ready for online play.
People care more about the selection of games available.
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Well I don\'t think GC will be at number one, :D
Even-though i will buy one :D
and i really can\'t believe M$ will impress the Japanese into buying 10Million units over there.... hmmm, I would say PS2 will be on top a year from now, and even 3 years from now. :D
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Originally posted by DirectXbox
You sure seem confident that PS2 will manage to outsell two more powerful consoles. On top of that Sony has no intention of dropping the price of the PS2
You seem very confident both new systems are more powerful. Many onlookers are convinced of no such thing. I might give GC a power of fun edge in individual game content but for graphics no way. Xbox to date has some rich screen shots, hanging over them is a real question mark whether all action will be as fluid as PS2s with consistent FPS, or even GCs for that matter.
The announced plan of no price drop at this time doesn\'t mean no intention of ever dropping the price. Of coarse they will drop the price its only a question of when. Do you honestly expect them to announce a price cut 4 months in advance?
Originally posted by DirectXbox
MM, I wouldn\'t bet on PS2 winning. 60 million PSX owners have not committed to PS2 yet. Plus the majority of the 10 million PS2 owners are hardcore gamers that will own all three systems.
It\'s closer to 100 million PSX owners than 60. Nearer to 15 million PS2 owners than 10, of those I have to think only a small minority will ever own all three systems.
My point is not that you are wrong but that we see things very differently.
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Are you people so forgetfull that you don\'t remember when Sony said the same thing a while ago that the PS2 would be BB only?
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DirectXbox, you cant know much if you think PS2 still costs 299USD!
HAHA..
No, no..
Sony will prob. announce a pricecut in the US..
So It will be the same price as the GC..
And what system do you think they\'ll choose?
PS2- 199USD WITH, SH2, MGS2, GT3, J&D ect.
Xbox 299USD, Halo, Abe ect.?
GC 199USD, Mario, Metroid ect
I would say either PS2 or GC..
Wake up and smell the coffiee!
Everyone says that the PS2 will prob. win this generation..
Look at what EA said?
LOL!
Let it go..
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why dont we wait and find out instead of making asumptions?
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Because when making assupmtions, you can always interpret information how you see fit, and as a result never be wrong.
Nothing is a foregone conclusion.
Balls to this...back to TM:B!
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Faston, how can you be so sure that Sony will drop the price of PS2 from 299 to 199? At the absolute MOST they\'ll drop to 249$ and didn\'t Sony say that even with the upcoming competition that they wouldn\'t drop the price? I seem to recall that being posted in a topic by thE gAme and was quite alarmed by it.
Anyways, I won\'t make a comment regarding this topic since it would only be pure speculation.
/goes back to playing Chrono Trigger
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Its funny how in this thread everyone is saying how this is all just speculation and how stupid it is, but thats what they meant to do, speculate, from the current sales they made an educated guess, its not like its set in stone
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Originally posted by datamage
Those who can\'t afford Cable/DSL or don\'t have Broadband in their area.
- dm
- the trick is to keep breathing.
Right. This is a glaring point that everyone seems to be overlooking. Alot of people can\'t get broadband access. I can\'t, Ddaryl can\'t and I\'m sure there is quite a few others on the board that can\'t. And until almost everyone can get broadband access, online gaming via consoles will not "take off" so to speak.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Right. This is a glaring point that everyone seems to be overlooking. Alot of people can\'t get broadband access. I can\'t, Ddaryl can\'t and I\'m sure there is quite a few others on the board that can\'t. And until almost everyone can get broadband access, online gaming via consoles will not "take off" so to speak.
This is true; but more house\'s are being wired for BB access every day and eventually every house will be wired. Why wait until the next few generations to start implementing BB when they can start now and make sure there are no kinks in the system when it REALLY becomes widespread? I would rather have a BB adapter on my console with which to play games online than have to dial-up(which defeats the purpose of even getting BB). There are plenty of people who DO have it so I say this can be considered somewhat of a test run, if you will.
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Originally posted by Gohan
This is true; but more house\'s are being wired for BB access every day and eventually every house will be wired. Why wait until the next few generations to start implementing BB when they can start now and make sure there are no kinks in the system when it REALLY becomes widespread? I would rather have a BB adapter on my console with which to play games online than have to dial-up(which defeats the purpose of even getting BB). There are plenty of people who DO have it so I say this can be considered somewhat of a test run, if you will.
Just because a house is wired for BB, doesn\'t mean the occupants can use BB. We have it set up in our house, but for us to be on it, (the most cost-effective), would be to remove our two phone line services, change over out cable access, and buy a cable modem. That is a lot of work and for the most part must be done in the same day, at the ened of the month to avoid additional hidden costs. It\'ll be a while before I feel like tackling this.
Plus, it\'s gonna cost more per month than it does now.
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Originally posted by Jumpman
didn\'t Sony say that even with the upcoming competition that they wouldn\'t drop the price?
Again, Sony said they had no PLANS of dropping the price with the upcoming competition.
Plans change. So it\'s easy to pretend no price cut is in the works as long as there is no competition and the product is still moving. If, God forbid, GC is delayed then Sony\'s plan for today sticks.
If GC launches on time then naturally Sony makes a new plan of matching the price of GC penny for penny. Speculation for sure but it\'s based on what went on last time around PSX vs. N64.
You think Sony will make the choice for cash strapped parents hedging between the two consoles any easier? I don\'t
[edit: Doah! I just realized since GC will be sold out just as the PS2 was early on, Sony won\'t have all that much incentive to slash prices as far as GC goes. So I take it all back. Any price cut would be in relation to the xbox launch. In that case, I don\'t give a crap. You\'re right Jumpman, sorry I brought it up!]
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1.) Sony has already dropped the price in Japna and the UK.
2.) WOuld you tell the owrld 6 months in advanced to wait and buy a PS2 cheaper, or keep it hush hush and let sales continue at their present pace then make a price break just in time for XMas. SOny is just practicing intelligent business. You don\'t announce price breaks before they happen you announce them when they happen. Common sense here
3.) If graphica matter so much then why has histroy always seen the slightly less powerful platform be the most succesful
4.) Xbox will take some time before it really catches on. Check all your polls hardly anyone wants one.
5.) Sony just has way way too many great games coming out. Sony\'s AAA titles will easily compete head to head with XBox\'s and GC\'s AAA games. The PS2 will have DVD out of the box which is a nice feature and will support both 56k and BB.
the other machine are great and I don\'t see Sony domination gthe market but I do see them leading it. We might see Xbox pull in close towards the end of this generation and I think they will cause I\'m impressed with XBox, but it will take at least a year before it picks up speed not including launch which of course all the diehards will rush to get one. Even me,
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Originally posted by ddaryl
1.) Sony has already dropped the price in Japna and the UK.
2.) WOuld you tell the owrld 6 months in advanced to wait and buy a PS2 cheaper, or keep it hush hush and let sales continue at their present pace then make a price break just in time for XMas. SOny is just practicing intelligent business. You don\'t announce price breaks before they happen you announce them when they happen. Common sense here
3.) If graphica matter so much then why has histroy always seen the slightly less powerful platform be the most succesful
4.) Xbox will take some time before it really catches on. Check all your polls hardly anyone wants one.
5.) Sony just has way way too many great games coming out. Sony\'s AAA titles will easily compete head to head with XBox\'s and GC\'s AAA games. The PS2 will have DVD out of the box which is a nice feature and will support both 56k and BB.
I agree!
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they droped the price of ps2 too $281.7 wow what a price cut.
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Originally posted by XBOX
they droped the price of ps2 too $281.7 wow what a price cut.
they dropped it 40 dollars, not a big drop but it is a difference
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If I really want to play online, I use my PC. I couldn\'t care much less about whether my PS2 goes online or not. To me half the fun of online gaming is radio chatter. I will change my opinion of this drastically if Sony is able to impelent real-time audio-chat thru gaming.
Experience is the best teacher:
Competition is good for the consumer. However I don\'t like Microsoft entering a new market as they will most likely establish poor business practice in the video game market as they already do in the software operating system market. I don\'t think MS will find it as easy as they think to transition from PC to console.
EMPERORROB\'S Recommendation
Look for Sony to stay #1, GameCube will fight with Microsoft for #2.
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I\'d just like to address one issue here:
Why does including extra features (internet, DVD, harddrive, etc.) to a console make it a stripped down PC?? Why does overlooking those bonuses make gaming "not true"?? At its core, these machines were desgined to play games, no matter what conveniences the manuafacturers wanted to implent to make them more useful and entertaining for us. I\'d love to have something that surfs the net on my TV, plays DVD and CD\'s, along with playing games, all in one box and for a price under $300.
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Originally posted by hyper
I\'d just like to address one issue here:
Why does including extra features (internet, DVD, harddrive, etc.) to a console make it a stripped down PC?? Why does overlooking those bonuses make gaming "not true"?? At its core, these machines were desgined to play games, no matter what conveniences the manuafacturers wanted to implent to make them more useful and entertaining for us. I\'d love to have something that surfs the net on my TV, plays DVD and CD\'s, along with playing games, all in one box and for a price under $300.
Because when you start being able to connect to aol and Instant message friends, use email, go to chatrooms, play real player and all that crap on a video game console you start to take the gaming aspect out of the console. A console can never replace a pc. And to try and add things to it and make more of a low in pc. Is stupid. Focus on making better hardware. And better dev kits. Instead of focusing on being more of a pc.
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Originally posted by XBOX
Because when you start being able to connect to aol and Instant message friends, use email, go to chatrooms, play real player and all that crap on a video game console you start to take the gaming aspect out of the console. A console can never replace a pc. And to try and add things to it and make more of a low in pc. Is stupid. Focus on making better hardware. And better dev kits. Instead of focusing on being more of a pc.
They brought us the best of practical gaming they could offer, and here we are with revolutionary hardware like the PS2, XBOX, and GC. I don\'t think having enabled netsurfing and such has deterred companies from delivering us better hardware. The point remains that these machines were designed from the blackboard to serve as a video game console, no matter what extra features have been added down the road. The gaming aspect of a console comes from its games, not its hardware; I don\'t think there is a way you can take it out of a console, except for maybe completely disabling its ability to play games.
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Amen, Hyper.
Game consoles will only be computers when they have word processors, printers, and a 3.5" drives.
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I agree with XBOX on this. The more you add, the more you get away from the basics and the fuzzier your focus gets. That\'s why so many of us are returning our PS2\'s for repairs. If they had concentrated on building a solid DVD drive more, there would have been less problems.
Adding features is good, but not when it takes away from your goal.
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Originally posted by EmperorRob
I agree with XBOX on this. The more you add, the more you get away from the basics and the fuzzier your focus gets. That\'s why so many of us are returning our PS2\'s for repairs. If they had concentrated on building a solid DVD drive more, there would have been less problems.
Adding features is good, but not when it takes away from your goal.
Well when you put it that way. . .
It\'s like Burger joints suddenly having chicken and fish on the menu. If they just leave it to burgers they would produce a much better product.
But then again not everyone has the same taste. Aghk, I\'m confused again.
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sooooo...your saying if it wasnt for the fact that Sony were planning on expanding and giving people the OPTION of having more features...the DVD drive would have worked properly...interesting logic
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I guess this is why ddaryl was made a mod.
He has said the most logical thing in this whole thread.
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- This is all speculation and opinion, first off..
- Broadband access is a big problem. I\'ve seen people mention that homes are being wired for it so on and so on. Maybe so. But, that doesn\'t mean we can use it. I personally cannot get broadband and probably will not be able for another few years. There is still plenty of places like this. Rural areas do not have access to broadband connections!
- Before we make a judgement on Sony remaining number one, I think you need to wait until they release the HDD and see how it does. If history repeats itself, the HDD shall fail and cause Sony some problems and damage the consumer base alittle. I am not saying this will happen, but I am saying Sony is taking a risk with the add-on. IF it goes over great, then all is well. If not, it could be a big backfire for Sony buisness wise.
- Xbox and Rob are right. When you add all these things, you get away from the basics and then you end up having problems. How many people on this forum alone have reported problems with DVD playback? Not to mention the massive amounts who have had to send in their PS2 for repair.. No matter how you look at it, that does not look good for Sony.
- I honestly won\'t argue the fact that Sony probably won this generation, but beyond this generation could be totally different. If Microsoft establishes a good size fanbase and Sony makes mistakes with the HDD, the next generation could be anyones game. Right now, MS has to prove to the consumer and it may very well be to late to prove to the consumer and win the generation. Instead, they should just focus on proving to the consumer they are "legit" and able to produce a killer system with excellent titles , and hold off on being number one until the next system wars.
Nintendo isn\'t even going for number one. Why? They have their fanbase and gurantee\'d sales. Goin\' for the top number really serves them no purpose, espically when they have a monoply on the handheld market.
- Some of you people spend too much time who is number one in sales and not enough time enjoyin\' the great games that are out there.. :)
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Well, let\'s take a look at the ultimate "untrue gaming" a la the PC. Have any of you guys played Starcraft?? you better have. Was it one of the best gaming experiences you\'ve ever had?? Hell yes. And was this experience broken because computers operate on Windows and has MS Word?? No!!
I\'ll say again: true gaming comes from the games themselves, and a million extra features won\'t take that away. If a console is giving you troubles actually playing the games though... get a better one! Sony should have made a better quality product all-around, one that wouldn\'t have given DVD malfunctions to gamers.
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Originally posted by hyper
Well, let\'s take a look at the ultimate "untrue gaming" a la the PC. Have any of you guys played Starcraft?? you better have. Was it one of the best gaming experiences you\'ve ever had?? Hell yes. And was this experience broken because computers operate on Windows and has MS Word?? No!!
I\'ll say again: true gaming comes from the games themselves, and a million extra features won\'t take that away. If a console is giving you troubles actually playing the games though... get a better one! Sony should have made a better quality product all-around, one that wouldn\'t have given DVD malfunctions to gamers.
You see a video game console was meant to play games. You slide the thing write next too your tv and melt away:) But when you got aol,printer, and LCD screen, fax modem, and all that crap. You don\'t have a console. And seeing how hdd are going to be the next thing in all console. I could see it now a ps7 with a 80gig hdd, monitor, printer, fax modem, SBB(super broad band) access, and six months free of aol.
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Originally posted by Bozco
they dropped it 40 dollars, not a big drop but it is a difference
Well it still is 281.7