PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => PS3 Discussion => Topic started by: Ethan_Hunt on July 04, 2001, 04:49:38 AM
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Here is the link,i think sony might have a flop on there hands here if they are not careful with the price,because i didnt think it was going to be that much,did any of you lot?
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2782621,00.html
what do you all think?
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I\'m getting the external model for my import PS2.
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oh **** !!! way too expensive !! :(
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What a rip off how can Sony continually screw over it\'s loyal customers. Speaking of which I\'m still under the impression that everyone who bought TMB including myself will have to BUY a whole new online version. Can anyone clear this up.:(
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Can we buy third party hdd? Duh, its not out yet! Anyway, does computer hard-drive, esp. external one work with ps2?
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Of course, as usual, we are overcharged for something we almost will have to get.
It is sad, just think about it when our PS2s can hit the internet. You\'ll have to buy and download the latest version of a game, or even just to progress. \'Tis a sad day indeed.
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I hope the european and american price is cheaper...
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150$ ? That\'s too much. But I think FFX uses the HDD so the people will buy it.
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So here\'s a list of upcoming PS2 games (in japan) which use the HDD:
Ateler Lilie - bereits erhältlich
A-Train 2001 - bereits erhältlich
Final Fantasy X - 19. Juli
Tamamayu Saga 2/Jade Cocoon 2 - 30. August
Beatmania II DX 5th Style: New Songs Collection - 30. August
Guitadora: Guitar Freaks 4th Mix & Drum Mania 3rd Mix 20. September
Capcom Vs SNK: Millionaire Fighting 2001 - September
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Hmm $150, or £107. Worst still is that Games firms dont seem to relise that £ is strong than $ so we will be charged £150 probably, aka $210, and thats before they add 17.5% VAT.
Even if they did charge £107 its still too expensive.
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wtf! thats way too much! $150!
im ever so pissed, thats half the price of the system.
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That price includes the ethernet adapter as well.
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Originally posted by teiresias
That price includes the ethernet adapter as well.
Yes, and there\'s a 56K option, but 150$?....
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Dont judge by the Japanese price..
Thay always pay more than us..
Like GameCube games will cost $65 overthere.. While $45 here.. (about)
Also remember they had to pay-to-play PSO..
There has been no officiall announcment on the price here in europe, nor usa.
Chill out dudes!
And who knows, in america sony might boundle the PS2 if you sign up for some sort of ISP service.
Wait and see..
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I\'m getting one ! :)
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Bah, 150 bucks, this thing is NOT WORTH 150 bucks, unless Hideo makes MGS2 support it. He is thinking about that, but i doubt it.
Damn sony, they are digging themselves a grave in the online department.
*Cough* FAILURE*Cough*
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Keep in mind, this isnt\' a official anouncment. So it might still be less... (hopefully)
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To whomsoever brought it up:
According to OPM (I think, might\'ve been PSM) the TM: Black Online thing requires the original game and something akin to an expansion disc that should be available this fall...
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Thats a lot, but i feel that it is less than i expected, dunno why.
BTW uk gamers, NTL have launched broadband internet
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If it costs more than a game it will fail. Name one add-on that cost more than the Dualshock that actually did well.
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I honestly dont see the problem with that price, I mean, your getting a 40 gig hard drive!
Or is it 20?
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Doesn\'t matter hpw big it is, people don\'t care. What they care about is that it will certainly cost over $100 here and there are no games that are going to be that good that will require it because it will mean lost sales. Kids won\'t save for it because they could get 2-3 games instead.
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Honestly I thought it would be 200bux at first.. (pew!)
So its less than I expected..
I hope they\'ll sell it cheaper in USA and especially EUROPE...
Im still getting it though..
Im a member of the CLAN! :D
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Like fastson said, don\'t judge by the Jap price. It is always cheaper when a product hits stateside.
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FINAL FANTASY X DOES NOT USE THE HARD DRIVE. IT IS NOT ONLINE. TEN WILL NEVER BE ONLINE.
Thank you for your time.
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Funny you guys are whining about a 150 HD/Ethernet Adapter when half of you are probably going to buy the steering wheel for 100 bucks and not blink an eye.
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Aaron is right, it\'ll fail. People don\'t care how much space they get , they care about price. $150 is too much for something that they already paid $300 on.
High Price = low sales.
Low sales = no developer support.
High Price + low sales + no developer support = Failure .
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I paid less than that for my 30GB ATA-100 Maxtor. Now tell me why I need one? FFX? Maybe, but I won\'t touch it unless it\'s under $100.
Downloading patches for games is a big mistake. Sony shouldn\'t do it.
I\'ve already paid $300 for my Hardware and the only other plans I have for it are games. I didn\'t buy a console to upgrade it. I have 2 PCs for that.
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For whoever had said ffx doesn\'t use hdd because is not online. Actually, FFX does us the ps2 harddrive but not for online but to eliminate loading!
it took some scene 3 - 5 seconds to load while with the hard drive, however it work i have no clue but by using some memory out of the harddrive, the loading will be gone. Not gone but will be faster, like a snap of the finger and there you go for the next scene. Is that fast. Silent Hill 2 (xbox version) also use this method because xbox have a built in hard drive.
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Originally posted by EmperorRob
I\'ve already paid $300 for my Hardware and the only other plans I have for it are games. I didn\'t buy a console to upgrade it. I have 2 PCs for that.
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. If you spend $300 on a console you should have to spend another large amount of money to upgrade it (even if it \'enhances\' the games in one way or another). Big Bill (Gates ;)) knows that and built the harddrive and ethernet directly into Xbox. That\'s certainly better value for money.
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I think that the HDD will sell very well (in about a year or two) because then there will be lots of online-games to support it. For example Final Fantasy XI, Navy Seals, Tribes 2 or some sort of Everquest. Everquest-alike games without hdd would\'nt be fun because the memory card won\'t have enough space for all the data players will have to save.
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150 bucks isn\'t bad. I\'d pay it in a heartbeat. Then again... I\'m also waiting for the PS2\'s price to drop to 199, so really I\'d be picking up this combo for around 50 bucks compaired to what you guys had to pay. :D Even less if the price isn\'t accurate and it turns out to be cheaper in North America.
I agree with the concensus though. The HDD will fail unless Sony does something drastic with the current price or decides to package it in with future PS2\'s. (Ala Dual Shock) Really.. I don\'t think it matters all that much. The HDD was never meant to enhance games or to be a central part of the PS2\'s hardware. It\'s merely a storagebin for internet junk, movies, music, and other non-game related content. Developers could easily make games with certain astetics which use the HDD.. but aren\'t dependant on it. Say for example in GT3.. Polyphony could program in the option for you to compile and play your own MP3 jukebox durring the races rather than listen to the normal soundtrack. If you don\'t have a HDD.. no problem.. the option simply won\'t be there or it\'ll be blanked out like the multiplayer option on some games when you don\'t have a second controller plugged in.
In fact, I think that depending on the HDD for enhanced games is a little stupid. The PS2 was designed with a specific archetecture that moves data in a specific way. If developers could use the HDD to, say for example, store textures... then yeah, the games would improve a bit almost overnight. However, developers wouldn\'t learn how to use the PS2 hardware properly (or at least at a much slower pace) because of they could just cut corners and use the HDD. Why piss with 4mb Vram (cache) when you have 10,000 times the room to work with? By changing the way developers move data around in the PS2, they run the risk of unforseen bottleneck which I\'m afraid would just be accepted because it\'d be easier and cheaper than learning how to do it right.
We\'ve already seen, and still are seeing, what faulty code and forign archetecture theories are doing when applied to the PS2 hardware. Aside from a few standouts, since launch it\'s been like a bunch of mechanics fillin a Porche 911\'s tank with Diesel fuel and then complaining cause it won\'t even make it around the block.
All I\'m saying guys, is that the PS2\'s HDD is no big deal. It\'s not even supposed to be used for the same purpose as Xbox\'s is.. so don\'t worry too much about absolutely HAVING to have one. As long as Sony makes a profit on it.. then it will be a success, regardless of weither or not it\'s in 7 out of 10 PS2\'s within 2+ years time.
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Who really knows what will happen,i mean this is sony,they will probably find away of selling the HDD.
Also if you think of the price of other things now a days,i mean look at the Nike Boings they are $150 dollars,but alot of people dont give one thought about buying them,i didnt.
So all i am going to do is see what happens,and if i think i will use it alot then i will get it,if not then i wont,it isnt any skin of my nose,if it is a flop or a success: )
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Pardon my bluntness***
Here, and at other forums, people are going off about the price and, to a lesser extent, the feasability of the HDD.
Price. True, no price has been announced for the US/EU markets. I hear the same whiny *****ing I heard when the PS2 price tag was announced. Just like before I say "WTF" is wrong with these *****y people?!!?
Just as you knew the PS2\'s price Months in advance, the same goes with the HDD. Start putting a $20 away here and there and you\'ll have the money ready before it\'s ever released. C\'mon man, this is 2001, and we aren\'t talking about some tired old outdated piece of hardware here. The same people that ***** about the price are probably the ones who buy a game every month (BTW thats about $300 by November). Either that or they live at mom\'s house and use their allowance to get games (Oop\'s they ARE screwed:D).
Really-- The price is reasonable considering what you get (Just as the PS2\'s price was).
As far as sell-ability/functionallity goes....
It\'s more than obvious by now that Sony\'s goal is to take the PS2 into the nether-realm of "entertainment hub". That is a HUGE gamble, they knew that going in, and us punks;) on forums are really just repeating the obvious. The pay-off, if successfull, will be huge. On the other hand, if they fail with their add-on/entertainment hub idea, they will falter but not fail. The user-base for Sony is HUGE, and growing. The HDD could conceivably fail miserably and the PS2 will still maintain a dominate position. The tech sector is leaping ahead at a quick pace-- Sony is just trying to bring the so-called "console" up to speed. Call me what you will, but I applaud them for trying (even as others have failed). Maybe this time the consumers are ready????
Some laugh at the thought of shelling out $150 or so for a device that will (so far) have a minimal impact (mostly caching) on the games they play. Haha, I say. These same people probably get the top-o-the-line graphics card for their pc\'s. You see, developers don\'t code pc games to use the full specs on those cards---- but it\'s AOK to buy that piece of "underused" hardware--- But not the HDD, that\'s stupid:rolleyes:........
But I digress, I\'m not quite awake yet. Those firework\'s kept me up late:)
Just my two cents.
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Originally posted by CygnusXI
Pardon my bluntness***
Just as you knew the PS2\'s price Months in advance, the same goes with the HDD. Start putting a $20 away here and there and you\'ll have the money ready before it\'s ever released. C\'mon man, this is 2001, and we aren\'t talking about some tired old outdated piece of hardware here. The same people that ***** about the price are probably the ones who buy a game every month (BTW thats about $300 by November). Either that or they live at mom\'s house and use their allowance to get games (Oop\'s they ARE screwed:D).
Some laugh at the thought of shelling out $150 or so for a device that will (so far) have a minimal impact (mostly caching) on the games they play. Haha, I say. These same people probably get the top-o-the-line graphics card for their pc\'s. You see, developers don\'t code pc games to use the full specs on those cards---- but it\'s AOK to buy that piece of "underused" hardware--- But not the HDD, that\'s stupid:rolleyes:........
You make an interesting point, people could save for the HD instead of spending the money on games. Three games equals the price of the HD. But, will people opt to buy an add-on for a system instead of just buyin\' games for the system they already paid $300 for? I truly doubt it. Then there is the crowd of people who have already been burnt from previous add-on buys, you can count them out on buying it. In the end, I think the only people who will buy this are Sony fan\'s who think Sony can do no wrong and early adopters.
As for the last comment about people buying too much for video cards and them not being used fully. Valid point. Very valid. But computer gamers and console gamers are a totally different breed. Computer gamers don\'t mind shelling out money for the newest stuff, where as console gamers for the most part DO mind.
The true test of the HD is what Sony does with it. What games will require it? And what will they require it for? There was some interesting suggestions on how to use the HD in this thread. Like the Gran Turismo JukeBox one (credit to whoever thought of that--sorry I\'m half asleep).
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Very good and well written post CygnusXI. (IMO)
I agree with what you said..
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True LIC.
See, I may be a minority here..... I actually would love a multi-function console--thingy:)
With every passing year Sony is moving its demographic towards the adult populace (except this year with the PSOne--- WTH?!?). That said, they may be relying on that group to be the main force behind their HDD success.
I\'m an old geezer and I would love to use my PS2 for more and more things, from e-mail, browsing, whatever. I sit in front of a dang computer alllllll day at work. When I get home I would rather do my fun stuff on a 32" tv, kicking back on a sofa:)
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Yup, Sony fans all around the world took a beating from Sony. I\'m tired of their sloppy marketing. The shortage and now this? PS2 is just a screw up waiting to happen.
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Originally posted by fastson
Dont judge by the Japanese price..
Thay always pay more than us..
Like GameCube games will cost $65 overthere.. While $45 here.. (about)
Also remember they had to pay-to-play PSO..
There has been no officiall announcment on the price here in europe, nor usa.
Chill out dudes!
And who knows, in america sony might boundle the PS2 if you sign up for some sort of ISP service.
Wait and see..
Ah, fastson, always loyal even under the most direst of circumstances. Sony should pay you.
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Originally posted by DirectXbox
Ah, fastson, always loyal even under the most direst of circumstances. Sony should pay you.
What can I say..
Im not a backstabber.. :)
How do you know they\'re not? :D
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Originally posted by ViVi
Yup, Sony fans all around the world took a beating from Sony. I\'m tired of their sloppy marketing. The shortage and now this? PS2 is just a screw up waiting to happen.
I\'m afraid so...
It\'ll be interesting to see if Sony\'s "god-like" marketing can sell this flop-in-the-making. If Sony think they can sell a $150 HDD/Network Adapter and a $320 PS2 GT3 bundle alongside two NEWER and MORE POWERFUL next gen consoles, they really are a bunch of arrogant bastards.
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Originally posted by CygnusXI
C\'mon man, this is 2001, and we aren\'t talking about some tired old outdated piece of hardware here.
Yes I think it is. What is its Access time in RPM. What is its seek time in miliseconds? Is this with or without the ethernet adapter for the $150?
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I don\'t know the access times, but the $150 is for the 40GIG drive and the ethernet/modem. That\'s not bad.
As far as a fast drive.... You got peeps going into damn convulsions over the $150, could you imagine if it was a scuzzy drive?!?! It\'d cost at least twice as much.... but it\'d be F>A>S>T!!!:)
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The 40GB HDD is something like 7200rpm right?
Or is it 4200??
It better be 7200... :)
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Actually , in Japan FF X does support the hard drive, but it\'s not required to have. It is not confirmed if those features will be included in the US release or not though.
I\'ve actually heard that this hard drive is also compatible with home PCs too, so I definitely think it\'s worth it for $150 for an Ethernet adapter and Hard drive that are compatible with both the PS2 and your home computer if you wanted. Not to mention that it will be cheaper in America, they always are compared to Japan.
Although, it\'s still and add-on so who knows how well it will do. Probably not that well at first, excpet for the fact that I think it\'s worth it for FF X and so do a lot of Japanese customers. People will wait till either the price drops, or more games are made compatible. MGS2 compatibility would be a great source of promotion for this thing!!
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Originally posted by DirectXbox
I\'m afraid so...
It\'ll be interesting to see if Sony\'s "god-like" marketing can sell this flop-in-the-making. If Sony think they can sell a $150 HDD/Network Adapter and a $320 PS2 GT3 bundle alongside two NEWER and MORE POWERFUL next gen consoles, they really are a bunch of arrogant bastards.
I dunno. . . I have a PS2 already, do I want to spend 299 on xbox, or 150 for hdd? Or, do I even care about hdd right now? no. So. . . I\'ll keep my PS2 and wait for a proce drop on hdd. Which will happen, as memory market prices go down all the time.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
I\'ll keep my PS2 and wait for a proce drop on hdd. Which will happen, as memory market prices go down all the time.
True..
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I really don\'t expect this thing to go for 150 here. Like someone else said, I bought a 30GB 7200rpm HD for my computer and paid WAY less than 150 bucks.
Also, as someone above also stated, in Japan, they pay outrageous prices to begin with. Expect this puppy to launch at $100, max. Especially by the time it comes out, 40GB of HD space will be much smaller than it seemed back when this thing was first announced.
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Originally posted by CygnusXI
I don\'t know the access times, but the $150 is for the 40GIG drive and the ethernet/modem. That\'s not bad.
As far as a fast drive.... You got peeps going into damn convulsions over the $150, could you imagine if it was a scuzzy drive?!?! It\'d cost at least twice as much.... but it\'d be F>A>S>T!!!:)
So what connection is it? EIDE?
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Geez, talk about misinformation!!
The $150 price includes the broadband adapter. It seems the Japanese market is not getting a BBA/modem hybrid, it is just a BB adapter judging from the pictures (since they only show an ethernet port). The hybrid BBA/modem was shown at E3 so it\'s probably only for the North American market (maybe UK) where dial-up connection are much more entrenched.
Therefore, the harddrive itself is really only $100 if you factor in the $49.99 price the adapter was announced at.
You DO NOT need the HDD for most of the online games. Tony Hawk, Twisted Metal, and most of the ones announced at E3 do not require the harddrive. Therefore the success of the HDD really has nothing to do with general online gaming on the PS2.
However, MMORPG games such as FFXI (if it turns out to be a MMORPG and not level-based like Phantasy Star) will probably require the harddrive just because of dynamic online updating and stuff like that.
There\'s also a list of games circulating that will support the harddrive. Most of them are games that will only ever be released in Japan at the moment, and most simply use it to decrease load times -- like FFX -- but there are a few train simulation games on the list that will allow new trains and stuff to be downloaded for use in the game.
To summarize:
The $150 bundle includes the ethernet adapter.
You do not need to the HDD to play most online games.
In the US the BBA/modem hybrid and the HDD will be available separately. Whether there will be a bundle deal in the US has not been announced yet as far as I know.
There are games in the pipe now that will support the HDD upon their release, though none require it at this time. This may change with MMORPG online games though, since they may require the HDD.
Some developers have noted that it is extremely simple to add support for the HDD to act as a cache and therefore reduce or eliminate load times. The up point for the developers here is that they can market the game as supporting the HDD (though not requiring it) with very little effor on their part.
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That pretty much sucks. But I have a high-paying job, say I don\'t think that will matter. I wonder why they decided to make it so expensive. Why? WHY? WHY!?! I guess I\'m going to have to buy it anyway...:(
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40 gig hard drive prices:
$359__10000 RPM
$279___7200 RPM
$249___7200 RPM
$239___7200 RPM
$224___7200 RPM (ebay)
$174___5400 RPM
$169___7200 RPM
$155___5400 RPM
$150___7200 RPM
$150_________________PS2 HDD
$144___7200 RPM
$132___7200 RPM (ebay)
$130___7200 RPM
$073___5400 RPM (ebay)
$050___5400 RPM (ebay)
(I just jumped around to see what the prices were.)
EDIT: For convenience, I\'ll add other people\'s finds to this list.
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You can get a 40GB 7200 ATA-100 for $130 at BestBuy and Circuit City.
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On pricewatch 40GB drives start at $78 and an IBM 40GB 7200 RPM ATA 100 at $107. These prices are not even bulk prices which I am sure Sony would be able to get direct from the manufacturer.
Onto a question though will heat become an issue with internal drives with the original US PS2\'s or any PS2 for that matter? I mean my regular 5200 drive gets pretty warm in my ventilated computer case, but what will happen in the tight fit of the PS2? Will these drives tend to fail a lot faster? Will they come with a 3 year warranty like PC drives do? If they only come with a 90 Day count me out. Heat and Hard Drives do not mix very well!
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Onto a question though will heat become an issue with internal drives with the original US PS2\'s or any PS2 for that matter? I mean my regular 5200 drive gets pretty warm in my ventilated computer case, but what will happen in the tight fit of the PS2? Will these drives tend to fail a lot faster? Will they come with a 3 year warranty like PC drives do? If they only come with a 90 Day count me out. Heat and Hard Drives do not mix very well! [/B]
They might be expensive when they come out, but i\'m sure they will fall in the $65-70 range eventually,
as for failing, there is always an option of buying a new one. Warranty? yep, 90 days. :D
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the 150$ price would make it very hard for sony to sell it, sure, buying it in mass would help prices, but inorder for this to do well it will have to be cheap, sony will have to take the losses,
the hardcore guys will buy it no matter what, but the casuals, well wont be willing to spend 100-150 for a peice of harware...
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that price really isn\'t alot. i mean if you have a full time job. 40 gigs isn\'t cheap these days...
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MOst HDD manufacturers have lifetime or very long warranties on their drives. If Sony refused to replace your HD, you most likely could get a replacement from the manufacturer.
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What I\'m wondering is if you could take a PC IDE HDD and plug it into the PS2. The pics I\'ve seen of the PS2 internal HDD looked just like a normal IDE, so maybe it will be possible. You would have to get the software for it some how, but I\'m sure that wouldn\'t be too hard.
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Originally posted by inteq
What I\'m wondering is if you could take a PC IDE HDD and plug it into the PS2. The pics I\'ve seen of the PS2 internal HDD looked just like a normal IDE, so maybe it will be possible. You would have to get the software for it some how, but I\'m sure that wouldn\'t be too hard.
I\'m absolutely sure that there could be 3rd party, or at least "illegal" parties involved in getting us cheaper, PC-based Hard Drive. It\'ll take time though. Time.