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Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: gamer2000 on July 07, 2001, 09:38:22 AM
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I\'d say Rare because they have been able to explore different genres with success while Square is mainly RPGs. Plus, I enjoy most of Rare\'s games more than I enjoy Square\'s. The hours I must\'ve spent playing PD...
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They both suck, and are unoriginal. But I\'d give Rare a small edge.
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Give me Final Fantasy, or give me death! :p
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Neither!
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I like both. Though I would choose Square. I prefer Square\'s style even if ppl think they are overrated or whatnot. Rare makes good games, unfortunately, they\'ve been doing them for a cheap and inferior machine all this time. Hopefully they can show their true skill on the GC.
- dm
- the trick is to keep breathing.
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I choose Rare. I enjoy Square\'s RPGs but they are pretty sucky compared to some of the AAA rpgs that have come out lately. Also I agree about Rare being able to develop in different genres with success.
BTW, Datamage, I agree about them using inferior hardware but they were able to use it better than the first party developers could and that is impressive by itself.
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Rare, Square has FF going for it to keep a success. But Rare has so many different AAA games in all genres. Dinosuar Planet:SFA though is looking more like a sooped up 64, but they are working on getting it to look better for the GC version. Square can give you FF, but Rare can give your much more.
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If you had asked me the very same question five years ago then I\'d definitely say Square. But ever since FFVII, they\'ve...well... sucked major llama anus im my opinion. The only Square game I\'ve enjoyed since FFVII was Vagrant Story.
Well, right now I have to say Rare. They can pretty much develop a great game for all genres. For FPS, they\'ve created, IMO, the two best FPS ever with Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. For platform games, Banjo-Kazooie is neck and neck with Mario 64 for being the best 3D platform game ever(don\'t start with the Crash series Sony fans, you know it sucks! ;)). For racing games, they\'ve created a pretty good and innovative game with Diddy Kong Racing.
Jet Force Gemeni was a pretty good third person shooter. And most TPS suck...
And they\'ve proven they can break new grounds with fresh and innovative killer titles like Blast Corps and Conker\'s Bad Fur Day.
In conclusion, Rare rulez and Square droolz. :p ;)
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BTW, Datamage, I agree about them using inferior hardware but they were able to use it better than the first party developers could and that is impressive by itself.
Very true. Which is why I look forward to their GC efforts.
- dm
- the trick is to keep breathing.
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Rare. But its kinda unfair to compare them since Square focuses on rpgs while Rare develops in more generes. If you would compare them at one genere that would be a diifrent story.
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BOTH !!! :D
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Square...and i disagree with you, they can do other genres...as they proved on the PSX...their transition to PS2 hasnt been too successful...although i did like The Bouncer
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i agree with Bob here
i mean Sqaure has ventured into other genres and been sucessful - like Bushido Blade and more but since Rare was almost the only great dev for N64 they got a lot bigger then they should have IMO
don\'t get me wrong i enjoy Goldeneye and PD but other than that i am not much of a Platformer gamer
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I mean I don\'t really care that much for either one of them, but if I am going to pick one i would pick rare. There games seem to be good on a consistant basis. I mean bushido blade was a ok game but nothing to brag about. I mean I like the idea but the game should have been a whole lot better. And parasite eve was a big let down. And ffXIII was crap compared to FFVII. But all in all the FF series rocks and I can\'t get enough of it. But outside of that square has nothing to offer.
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Originally posted by XBOX
. . . And ffXIII was crap compared to FFVII. . .
Can I borrow your time machine when you\'re finnished?
Cool, \'cause I want to see who will beat Bush in the \'04 elections.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Can I borrow your time machine when you\'re finnished?
Cool, \'cause I want to see who will beat Bush in the \'04 elections.
Dude what are you talking about FFVII AND FFXIII are both psx titles and if you have not played them I suggest you trade that time machine in and go purchase those games.
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Dude what are you talking about FFVII AND FFXIII are both psx titles
Final Fantasy Thirteen was on PSX? WHOA. I cannot consider myself a hardcore Square whore, because I have completely overlooked FF13.
:D
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Originally posted by Weltall
Final Fantasy Thirteen was on PSX? WHOA. I cannot consider myself a hardcore Square whore, because I have completely overlooked FF13.
:D
HAHAH..lol.... I should not drink and then goto the computer. LOL...MY BAD:D I meant FFVII AND FVIII.
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Originally posted by XBOX
HAHAH..lol.... I should not drink and then goto the computer. LOL...MY BAD:D I meant FFVII AND FVIII.
mm hmmm. I accept your apology. :nerd:
So, what did you have to drink?
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I\'ve enjoyed plenty of Square games, but Rare made Battletoads, did they not? Therefore, I vote for Rare. Gotta love the \'toads. :)
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
mm hmmm. I accept your apology. :nerd:
So, what did you have to drink?
THANKS:) Too much hennassey. And lit up a phat one, but I only took a little puff. My head hurts I am going too lay down now.
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
i agree with Bob here
i mean Sqaure has ventured into other genres and been sucessful - like Bushido Blade and more
Square was successful in other genres? HA! Bushido Blade was mediocre, Chocobo Racing was a horrible rip-off of Mario Kart, Parasite Eve 1 and 2 just flat out sucked, Bouncer was an all around terrible game, and judging from the japanese reviws Driving Emotion Type-S sucked horribly too.
All of that was my opinion, but I don\'t have to have a crystal ball to know the majority of the people who played them thought they sucked.
but since Rare was almost the only great dev for N64 they got a lot bigger then they should have IMO
Disagreed. I think they got the respect that they deserve on the N64. But hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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Originally posted by Jumpman
Square was successful in other genres? HA! Bushido Blade was mediocre, Chocobo Racing was a horrible rip-off of Mario Kart, Parasite Eve 1 and 2 just flat out sucked, Bouncer was an all around terrible game, and judging from the japanese reviws Driving Emotion Type-S sucked horribly too.
Square have made some of the most critcally aclaimed fighters ever, Bushido Blade, acclaimed for being not only original but a great game (you obviously didnt like it) Tobal 1 was greeat, buit didnt sell well so the release of Tobal 2 (critically acclaimed as possibly the best fighting game ever) never saw a release outside of Japan. Ehrgeiz was also a popular and highly innovative title. The Bouncer i thought was a good game. Single player was short but had a lot of replay value, but its still longer and better than any other fighting games single player...and its 4 player versus mode just kicks every other fighting games ass for fun value IMO. Now, other genres...Einhander, a highly acclaimed attempt at a 3D shooter, Final Fantasy Tactics, RPG Strategy, Driving Emotion Type S is a game some people hate, some people love...Rad Racer is just an all time classic :) Parasite Eve 1 and 2 were very rwell recieved by most critics also
...somebody else probably knows Square games better than i do, but Jumpman, even if your not a fan of them, you cant deny that they are the kings of RPG (or at least up there if your a fan of other companies) they have far too many critically acclaimed, best selling RPGs
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Ah! no!
You beat me to it Bob!
Jumpman, you honetsly think the PE series sucked?
I think you are jut cutting it down cuz you really like rare, you stupid 15 year old kid! Go get me a switch!
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Square have made some of the most critcally aclaimed fighters ever, Bushido Blade, acclaimed for being not only original but a great game (you obviously didnt like it) Tobal 1 was greeat, buit didnt sell well so the release of Tobal 2 (critically acclaimed as possibly the best fighting game ever) never saw a release outside of Japan.
BB was pretty innovative, but I just couldn\'t get into it. The Tekken series killz it IMO.
And Tobal 2 wasn\'t critically acclaimed as the best fighting game ever, Soul Calibur WAS. It got perfect reviews from IGN and Famistu. Only two other games got perfect reviews from Famistu(Zelda:oot and Vagrant Story I think)., that tells you something. Was this Tobal 2 game released on the SNES or something? Because it couldn\'t of been that great if I\'d never heard of it before.
Ehrgeiz was also a popular and highly innovative title.
It only got a 7.5 from IGNPSX, a site which is IMO bias towards Square. That tells you something.
As for it being popular, I don\'t see it as a PSX greatest hit so it couldn\'t of been that popular.
The Bouncer i thought was a good game. Single player was short but had a lot of replay value, but its still longer and better than any other fighting games single player...and its 4 player versus mode just kicks every other fighting games ass for fun value IMO.
The Bouncer\'s gameplay was just too repeditive for me. That motion blur affect got really annoying too...
Final Fantasy Tactics, RPG Strategy
I can see how Square fans would love that games, but my god it\'s soooooooo long.
Parasite Eve 1 and 2 were very rwell recieved by most critics also
Actually, they wern\'t. PSXIGN and Videogames.com gave them only average reviews.
...somebody else probably knows Square games better than i do, but Jumpman, even if your not a fan of them, you cant deny that they are the kings of RPG (or at least up there if your a fan of other companies) they have far too many critically acclaimed, best selling RPGs
They created great stories,yes, but god I hate their battle systems(besides Chrono Cross...which lacked story wise IMO). FF7-9 would of been soooooo much better if they didn\'t have random battles. In fact, I gave up on both FVIII and 9 because I couldn\'t stand random battles.
Game Arts ownz their asses when it comes to battle systems. :)
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Originally posted by ViVi
Ah! no!
You beat me to it Bob!
Jumpman, you honetsly think the PE series sucked?
!
YES!!!! Fix up the control scheme and do something about the ****ty gameplay then PE1&2 might have been semi-descent!
I think you are jut cutting it down cuz you really like rare, you stupid 15 year old kid! Go get me a switch!
I\'M OLDER THAN YOU NOW VIVI! I know your 14, and I know I could kick your ass if I ever saw you! ;)
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Originally posted by Jumpman
BB was pretty innovative, but I just couldn\'t get into it. The Tekken series killz it IMO.
And Tobal 2 wasn\'t critically acclaimed as the best fighting game ever, Soul Calibur WAS. It got perfect reviews from IGN and Famistu. Only two other games got perfect reviews from Famistu(Zelda:oot and Vagrant Story I think)., that tells you something. Was this Tobal 2 game released on the SNES or something? Because it couldn\'t of been that great if I\'d never heard of it before.
PSX game, not released out side of Japan, and you missed where i said possibly...much like how Chrono Trigger is considered possibly the greatest RPG ever by old school critics
It only got a 7.5 from IGNPSX, a site which is IMO bias towards Square. That tells you something.
they really dont give Square games that higher scores...only their great RPG\'s (FF7, Xenogears etc)
The Bouncer\'s gameplay was just too repeditive for me. That motion blur affect got really annoying too...
ever played any ther fighting game? its much less repetitive due to the fact 4 players can fight at once...unless you just wanna be a wimp and do Kou\'s tripple kick attack over and over...all fighting games have a couple of moves that if you do repeatedly will bring you a guaranteed victory
Actually, they wern\'t. PSXIGN and Videogames.com gave them only average reviews.
i dont care about those sites...i mainly refer to Magazines, the real deal, none of this online stuff :)
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PSX game, not released out side of Japan, and you missed where i said possibly...much like how Chrono Trigger is considered possibly the greatest RPG ever by old school critics
Yeah...well it\'s 4:28 am so I can\'t pick up on every word...
they really dont give Square games that higher scores...only their great RPG\'s (FF7, Xenogears etc)
I don\'t think FVIII and 9 deserves what they got. I also think that Chrono Cross didn\'t derserve a 9.7. I don\'t think RE deserved anything over 5.0, but that\'s just me.
ever played any ther fighting game? its much less repetitive due to the fact 4 players can fight at once...unless you just wanna be a wimp and do Kou\'s tripple kick attack over and over...all fighting games have a couple of moves that if you do repeatedly will bring you a guaranteed victory
Soul Calibur doesn\'t...VF3 definitely doesn\'t....Tekken 3 didn\'t...Smash Bros doesn\'t... Bouncer wasn\'t even a fighting game, it was more of a beat em up.
i dont care about those sites...i mainly refer to Magazines, the real deal, none of this online stuff
And what magazines are these?
AussieGaming?
:laughing:
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Yeah...well it\'s 4:28 am so I can\'t pick up on every word...
past your bed time young fella :)
I don\'t think FVIII and 9 deserves what they got. I also think that Chrono Cross didn\'t derserve a 9.7. I don\'t think RE deserved anything over 5.0, but that\'s just me.
can we say opinion...just because you disagree with their (and many others\') opinion, all of a sudden they are biased? geh
Soul Calibur doesn\'t...VF3 definitely doesn\'t....Tekken 3 didn\'t...Smash Bros doesn\'t... Bouncer wasn\'t even a fighting game, it was more of a beat em up.
beat em up is constant beating up of characters on your wayt to a goal...The Bouncer is pretty much done like every other fighting game, with levels, and the fights getting progessivley harder...cut scene then onto the fight, cut scene, then onto the next fight...and the single player was really just something to do if you didnt have friends...like every other fighting game
and i didnt play Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter enough (i should be shot) but i know for a fact that there are some moves in all the tekken games that the computer oponent will almost never defend against...not that i would use them :) and in other fighting games such as marvel vs. capcom, xmen vs. street fighter etc.
And what magazines are these?
AussieGaming?
:laughing:
....yes.........j/k, actually, i used to be an avid reader of magazines from all over the world, Australia, UK, USA etc. etc. thats where i got my info from
BTW i always though the unofficaial Australia PSX magazines were the best :)
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Square all the frickin way! :)
But I like Rare aswell. :)
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If you guys haven\'t already guessed, I got the idea for this topic from XBOX-XBOX at the MsXbox forums. Here\'s a link:
http://forum.msxbox.com/showthread.php?threadid=18051
They have some pretty knowledgeable people over there (and some not) and their opinions seem to differ greatly from those over here.
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I voted for Rare, because nearly every Rare-game has excellent gameplay. Square is creating some awesome games but it also produces crappy games like The Bouncer oder Type S.
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C\'mon, this topic is worthy of more debate :D.
Again, take a look at this:
http://forum.msxbox.com/showthread....?threadid=18051
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Originally posted by gamer2000
C\'mon, this topic is worthy of more debate :D.
Again, take a look at this:
http://forum.msxbox.com/showthread....?threadid=18051
Could you try the link again? It didn\'t work for me.
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well it depends on how you look at it. If you like RPG\'s then your obviously going to pick square cause....thats what they do.
But I still have to say rare is a better developing company than square for several reasons.
1.) I dont know any bad rare games. seriously, everything they make is a good game. I cant name one sorry game from them.( I dont know if this will stay this way since some of they key players left them and started their own company)
2.) they have dared to hit various genres and done so VERY successfully. platformers...banjo kazooie rocked.
FPS...golden eye, perfect dark...nuff said.
fighters...killer instinct...(this is STILL my favorite fighter...and if GC gets a new version then count me in for a GC purchase). ca ca ca COMBO BREAKER!!!
If rare decides to make an RPG...I can only imagine that it will be successful because....every genre they creep into....they do it with a bag!
And get this....all those rare games are made by different teams of people. I cant say the same for square. All thier hits have been produced by Horonibu Sakaguchi....from the FF series to Vagrant Story....its HE and HE only that holds up square.
but no one can question the fact that square is the king of RPG\'s. But Im not the biggest fan of RPG\'s....I HATE TURN BASED BATTLES. and every RPG ive ever bought was for the "story" not the game play.
This is something to think about to. How much longer can rare keep this up? The people who work for them are REALLY old!! these guys retirements are coming up soon and their young talent...(the guys behind golden eye and perfect dark) have left them. If rare is to remain a good developing house that have to go out there AND START RECRUITING young people now and pass the torch.
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Here\'s the link, Troglodyte:
http://forum.msxbox.com/showthread.php?threadid=18051
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Originally posted by Soul_Reaver
This is something to think about to. How much longer can rare keep this up? The people who work for them are REALLY old!! these guys retirements are coming up soon and their young talent...(the guys behind golden eye and perfect dark) have left them. If rare is to remain a good developing house that have to go out there AND START RECRUITING young people now and pass the torch.
What key players?? The devs who made Timesplitters, which are the only people that have left Rare to my knowledge, had a very minute involvement in making Perfect Dark. The rest of the team are still alive and kicking. And you sound as if Rare released these games decades ago... it\'s only been 6 years that we\'ve seen Goldeneye hit the shelves. These people are still young and will continue to do their work in the future.
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I\'d say neither. Rare is losing their touch IMO. The only trule enjoyable experience I got from their games were from Goldeneye and BK. The rest... DK64 and JFG to name a few... what a waste of a good $100. I think PD never reached the quality of Goldeneye; maybe in eye-candy and sound, but gameplay was absolutely terrible.
The only Square games I\'ve played are Chrono Trigger and FF6. While CT is the greatest game of all time (no denying that!), FF6 hasn\'t impressed me so far. God, I don\'t know whose bright idea it was to put random battles every 5 seconds, but if I ever met the guy... BANG. If their main franchise is such a dissapointment, I don\'t know what to say about Square themesleves.
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?????????
Am I the only one that didn\'t see any difference in gameplay between PD and GE???
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What key players?? The devs who made Timesplitters, which are the only people that have left Rare to my knowledge, had a very minute involvement in making Perfect Dark. The rest of the team are still alive and kicking. And you sound as if Rare released these games decades ago... it\'s only been 6 years that we\'ve seen Goldeneye hit the shelves. These people are still young and will continue to do their work in the future.
minute involevement???LOL....thats funny cause their involvement was pretty major with that title. And as weve seen from timesplitters.....theses guys are the real deal, top notch developers. If you dont think that these guys were key players....hey??? I dont know what else there is to convince you.
And NO these people are not still young. MOST of their good developers are old. im not talking 70\'s are nothing but MOST of them are pretty damn close to retirement.....whether they take retirement are not is another story but like I said before If they not start recruiting young talent soon.....the future of this company is bleek. And Its not like they are going all out of there way to get this talent. They only recruit developers that come out of the highest grade colleges....what the problem with that you ask? Well most game developers dont finish college cause they dont need too.
If you did not finish college or did not graduate from an ivy league school then......dont give your resume to rare.....cause the only way you getting in there is if you got a demo thats on the level of MGS2.
How do I know all this you ask? I\'ll be coming out of college soon and its my field of profession....I thought about rare and I checked them out only to find some of the most "strict" hiring policies in the business. There reason for it is good I assume....they only want the best....but I dont think they realize that some of the best dev. are slipping through there hands just cause they dont meet they too hign standards.
They do a lot of recruiting out of cambridge though(their home turf) so if you go to school there....you got a lead on the rest of the pack:D
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Originally posted by Soul_Reaver
minute involevement???LOL....thats funny cause their
involvement was pretty major with that title. And as
weve seen from timesplitters.....theses guys are the
real deal, top notch developers. If you dont think
that these guys were key players....hey??? I dont
know what else there is to convince you.
[/B]
Free Radical Designs Ltd. was reported into existence on April 20, 1999, as shown in this link (http://ign64.ign.com/news/7774.html).
Perfect Dark was released on May 19, 2000, which means Free Radical Designs was formed more than a year before the actual shipping of the game. Plus the fact that time was needed to form the company, and you\'ve got a group of people who only took part in the inital, perhaps the middle phases of PD\'s three year development cycle. However, the article notes that these people spent a lot of time with Goldeneye, and some of them have 18 years of experience with Rare (Which is saying much, as Rare itself is about 24 years old). So you\'re right, a number of Free Radical Designs\' staff were key players in Rare. But also note that a good many people worked on Perfect Dark (close to 70 is my estimation), divided into two teams. As PD was Rare\'s flagship title, many other veterans surely must have had involvement in its development; the fact that a number of people decided to leave isn\'t a harbringer of downfall for Rare.
And NO these people are not still young. MOST of
their good developers are old. im not talking 70\'s
are nothing but MOST of them are pretty damn close to
retirement.....whether they take retirement are not is
another story but like I said before If they not start
recruiting young talent soon.....the future of this
company is bleek. And Its not like they are going all
out of there way to get this talent. They only
recruit developers that come out of the highest grade
colleges....what the problem with that you ask? Well
most game developers dont finish college cause they
dont need too.
If you did not finish college or did not graduate from
an ivy league school then......dont give your resume
to rare.....cause the only way you getting in there is
if you got a demo thats on the level of MGS2.
How do I know all this you ask? I\'ll be coming out of
college soon and its my field of profession....I
thought about rare and I checked them out only to find
some of the most "strict" hiring policies in the
business. There reason for it is good I
assume....they only want the best....but I dont think
they realize that some of the best dev. are slipping
through there hands just cause they dont meet they too
hign standards.
They do a lot of recruiting out of cambridge
though(their home turf) so if you go to school
there....you got a lead on the rest of the pack:D
Rare has a staff reaching over 200, with their goal being 250. You can\'t honestly say that all these developers are gnarled, senile people aching for retirement. They must be happy with the talent they have, or they would have taken actions to draw in fresh recruits (Foe example, Miyamoto gave the reins to inexperienced developers for Majora\'s Mask).
BTW, how do you know that most devs are high-school drop-outs?? That\'s something I\'ve never heard of before... To be a good dev, I heard that you need expertise in computer language (C++, C, etc... I\'m not too familiar with that stuff). And to have expertise in computer language, you have to be an experienced mathmatician (covering calculus and trig), and I don\'t think you get that kind of education if you never attend college.
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Originally posted by hyper
BTW, how do you know that most devs are high-school drop-outs?? That\'s something I\'ve never heard of before... To be a good dev, I heard that you need expertise in computer language (C++, C, etc... I\'m not too familiar with that stuff). And to have expertise in computer language, you have to be an experienced mathmatician (covering calculus and trig), and I don\'t think you get that kind of education if you never attend college. [/B]
Many are great at math and logic, but not-so-hot in language and reading/writing. So self-taught people could do well. But a college education is now being required by a lot of high-paying companies. And with a better education, you have a better chance of climbing the corporate ladder.