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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Bossieman on July 09, 2001, 10:42:57 AM
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I´m sorry if I make some people angry with this topic but I have to make my opinion clear about religon.
Over 80% of the people living on this planet belives in a God. I don´t. I´m a scientist.
There is hundreds of religons on this planets beliving in differet Gods. I respects that, but i dont like religon!! Why?
Because religon is the dominating force that causes war.
Almost every war in this world is caused because of religon.
You can try to say that this is not true, but it is.
Did you know that some scientists got killed because they said thet the earth was round? Many scientists have been killed because of religon.
The reason why God exists is easy in the eyes of a scientists.
When we lived in caves, we didnt know much about the world. We saw thing we could not explain, like lightining hit the earth, earthquake and stuff like that, we did not know why those phenomena happened. We started to belive that there was a God that make that happened, when the lightening hit the ground, it was a God! Because we coluld not explain it.
Religon was born.
Some of my friens at work tells me that we are not animals, we are not realeated to monkeys.
That is very funny. People belives that we are different from other lifeforms on this planet.
What are we? Are we like animals or are we "above "animals? What do you think ? Are we animals?
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I believe we were created by God, and that the reason we have similarities to other animals is that they were all created by the same entity.
Science is a way to explain the unknown in a way that most people can agree. It may not be right, but it\'s stable. It\'s giving "humanly perceived" order to "chaos."
Religion is a way of trying to explain the unknown in a way in which we admit that we can\'t completely comprehend, and leave it at that.
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So we are all created by this thing called God?
Are you saying that God created the world and the Universe?
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Who knows if we came from another planet???
We dont seem to fit on this planet.We are destroying it and creating things.Something no other animal does.
And then there are people with psychic powers like Uri Gueller and communications with aliens.....
Lets say God does not exist.Wouldnt we still beleive to a religion??
Its as if we need to beleive in God.
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We are animals. You have to agree, we are the strangest animals on this planet.
I believe in "the reality", the idea that there is a truth out there beyond anyones beliefs.
and no matter what you believe in or what you think you know "the reality" is and always will be there.
Do you believe we were "put" here?
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I am a child of God.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
So we are all created by this thing called God?
Are you saying that God created the world and the Universe?
Yes, I am. That is what I believe. There\'s proof for it, there\'s proof against it. I believe that were we not created to be able to comprehend all the inner-workings of life and the universe. I\'m not saying we shouldn\'t try, cause we\'ve learned so much. But we\'ll never fully understand.
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One thing is for sure.We can set our boundaries of logic.
Someone might find the existance of God logical.Some might find the non-existance of God logical.
Scientist still cant explain Uri Gueller\'s powers.
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The thing is that people even today in the year 2001 thinks that there is something called a God that created us. Damn that is sad, havent the humanity evolved?
Why do people belive there is a GOD?
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I love this Topic. It reminds me that there are bigger things out there and that reality is only the way you look at things. Both views are the same. Religion believes that a higher being not of this earth put us here & others who believe aliens placed us here. Its the same belief just different names of things. "The Reality" is the only true way to believe. Recognize that it exists and you cover all of your bases.
See The Light Of Enlightenment.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
So we are all created by this thing called God?
Are you saying that God created the world and the Universe?
YES
Wars are started by people, not gods.
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IF he created the world ,he turned his back on this world and left a long time ago.
To many things get out of control here on this earth.
And I don`t like what religion made of the moslems.They are way tooo fanatic.
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Originally posted by EmperorRob
YES
Wars are started by people, not gods.
That is so wrong, war are started because of religon not people. You know that but you just cant accept it.
That is Sad.
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God? No thanks. Real or not, I could give 2 ****s about the ****er.
Lets see how many people I offend with that...
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Originally posted by Bossieman
The thing is that people even today in the year 2001 thinks[sic] that there is something called a God[sic] that created us. Damn that is sad, havent[sic] the[sic] humanity evolved?
Why do people belive[sic] there is a GOD?
How do you explain the unexplained? Can you prove there isn\'t a powerful entity?
Originally posted by macabre
IF he created the world ,he turned his back on this world and left a long time ago.
To[sic] many things get out of control here on this earth.
God gave us individuality and independence. Humanity chose to turn their back on God, God din\'t turn (his) back on us.
Why doesn\'t he fix everything? He will, he has a plan, and it\'s not for us to fully comprehend.
Originally posted by Bossieman
That is so wrong, war[sic] are started because of religon[sic] not people. You know that but you just cant[sic] accept it.
That is Sad.
Beliefs start wars, not religion, although many times these beliefs correspond with certain religious beliefs.
And Krimson, it\'s your choice.
IMB (in my belief)
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I dont think Clinton or Bush bombard inocent people because of a religion.....Or the 2nd world war started because of a religion....Or people kill people because of religion.
Some of the worse killings are made from christians for god sakes(:D).
Wars arent made because of religions.They are just hiding behind them.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
How do you explain the unexplained? Can you prove there isn\'t a powerful entity?
God gave us individuality and independence. Humanity chose to turn their back on God, God din\'t turn (his) back on us.
Why doesn\'t he fix everything? He will, he has a plan, and it\'s not for us to fully comprehend.
IMB (in my belief)
He will? please explain.............
God is a joke, he is dead. Science has killed him.
Why do people belive in a God. Are our God more correct than a the God that some people belive in Africa. It has to to be 1000 of Gods, what makes your God the right one?
Remember people are killing eachothe because they belive in different Gods, isn´t that pathetic?
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Originally posted by Bossieman
He will? please explain.............
God is a joke, he is dead. Science has killed him.
Why do people belive in a God. Are our God more correct than a the God that some people belive in Africa. It has to to be 1000 of Gods, what makes your God the right one?
Remember people are killing eachothe because they belive in different Gods, isn´t that pathetic?
God might or might not excist.But science cant explain everything...THE UNEXPLAINED EXCISTS!!
But I agree.We dont know which God is the right one.Budists can do marvels too.
Muslims are the only ones that kill for th ereason you say.
BTW:Scinece is a religion with logic (which scientist limit) as their God.
SCIENCE IS THE REASON FOR DEADLIER WARS!
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Originally posted by Unicron!
God might or might not excist.But science cant explain everything...THE UNEXPLAINED EXCISTS!!
Prove it, tell me some things that science can´t explain ok?
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hmmm,
I love this topic. The metaphysical, the spiritual aspects of this...
First of all, IMO there is no God.
God was created by men to live in peace and to obey local laws. The bible is nothing more then a law textbook, pure fiction. (I\'m sure gonna get some angry people after me for this :D )
How can one believe in a God, with a fu@ked up world like we have? Sure you can say that men do **** to each other, and not God. If God is real, and he cares, he wouldn’t let half the sh!t happen on this planet.
All this is my opinion of course, and is not meant to persuade anyone from believing in God.
Originally posted by Unicron!
Muslims are the only ones that kill for th ereason you say.
SCIENCE IS THE REASON FOR DEADLIER WARS!
Not true, every religion inspires war. Religion is the number one killer of people :D
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Originally posted by Bossieman
Prove it, tell me some things that science can´t explain ok?
Read the name in one of my previous posts.I ve read statements from scientists.They couldnt explain a thing about Uri\'s powers.
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Originally posted by Toxical
hmmm,
I love this topic. The metaphysical, the spiritual aspects of this...
First of all, IMO there is no God.
God was created by men to live in peace and to obey local laws. The bible is nothing more then a law textbook, pure fiction. (I\'m sure gonna get some angry people after me for this :D )
How can one believe in a God, with a fu@ked up world like we have? Sure you can say that men do **** to each other, and not God. If God is real, and he cares, he wouldn’t let half the sh!t happen on this planet.
All this is my opinion of course, and is not meant to persuade anyone from believing in God.
Not true, every religion inspires war. Religion is the number one killer of people :D
Amen
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Originally posted by Toxical
Not true, every religion inspires war. Religion is the number one killer of people :D
Today we are dying from mutated food,from mad cow deseases,from aids,from polution,from wars made for economical reasons,radioenergy,biological weapons.....Thats exactly what a religion teaches:D
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God was created by ignorant people that felt they needed to fill a void in their lives,they needed someone bigger than themselves so god was created by the mass.
They also needed to explain things that they didn\'t understand angels,demons etc.. were all created so they could try to understand something that they didn\'t.
Through time the illusion of god has been manipulated,the church showed no compassion during the middle-ages,they demanded tax from the people all in the name of god,and persicuted those who didn\'t follow their ways.
There are ofcourse good things that have come from this religion,for example christmas is a time when most people are happy.
But I choose not to belive in god,nobody decides my destiny other than myself.Like Bossie I follow science.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Today we are dying from mutated food,from mad cow deseases,from aids,from polution,from wars made for economical reasons,radioenergy,biological weapons.....Thats exactly what a religion teaches:D
Hey, that is gods plan ! :D
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Today we are dying from mutated food,from mad cow deseases,from aids,from polution,from wars made for economical reasons,radioenergy,biological weapons.....Thats exactly what a religion teaches:D
Mutated food, are you joking, do you think you die of mutaded food, links?
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I worship lamas why well ill tell you why..
in 1760 the "lama" was born and it floated up tp hevan and became god then it created other "lamas" and then this "monkey" came outta no where and "attacked" the "lama" god..and that started the earth quakes of god and if you fly really high you can hear the "lamas" and the"monkeys" fighting over the ast pieace of toast and thats why i worship "lamas" but ervy monday i am god.
:)
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Originally posted by RichGUK
Just don\'t write off everything in this universe as being plain science.
Science rules and it will solve every single question you ever would think of.
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I believe in science too, esp considering that religon was invented at a time when lots of things couldn\'t be explained logically.
However I do believe theres some stuff out there which is fate, or "the reality" or however someone described it, which science can\'t explain. I wouldn\'t however been supprised if in the far future these were explained and became science.
Just don\'t write off everything in this universe as being plain science.
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man i have scientfic proff that lamas are god
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Today we are dying from mutated food,from mad cow deseases,from aids,from polution,from wars made for economical reasons,radioenergy,biological weapons.....Thats exactly what a religion teaches:D
You are talking about greed. :D
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Originally posted by TwIsTeD mEtAl
man i have scientfic proff that lamas are god
Bring them on dude i want to see them, don´t be shy?
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When you started this subject you said you respected that there were religions, but you obviously dont. Just becuase you dont have any faith dosnt mean you have to bash people who do. You also said that many scientists died because they believed the earth was round. tell me how this is a product of religion. they were killed becuase they went againts what the masses believed not because of religion.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
Science rules and it will solve every single question you ever would think of.
Okay, answer these questions Mr. Scientist! :p
What is the meaning of life?
Explain Charles Darwin\'s theory of evolution.
What caused the Big Bang?
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Today we are dying from mutated food,from mad cow deseases[sic],from aids[sic],from polution,from wars made for economical reasons,radioenergy,biological weapons.....Thats exactly what a religion teaches:D
Created by sin.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Okay, answer these questions Mr. Scientist! :p
What is the meaning of life?
Explain Charles Darwin\'s theory of evolution.
What caused the Big Bang?
The meaning of life?
Easy. the only reason for life is to reproduce itself. It has always been so. The meaning of life is to make sure that your DNA is secured to a new generation, just like all other life on this planet.
Explain Charles Darwin\'s theory of evolution.
The strong one survives, the weak one dies. I really don´t understand your question.
What caused the Big Bang?
Well we don´t know for sure yet, but wait and see, science will kill God.
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man i have proff ii just dont wanna show it.......becuz the lama god wouldnt like it
:)
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In those days almost everyone was religious. The reason the priest or whatever killed the people is because they had all the power in the society. These were people afraid of new ideas this is not what religion teaches
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Originally posted by Bossieman
The meaning of life?
Easy. the[sic] only reason for life is to reproduce itself. It has always been so. The meaning of life is to make sure that your DNA is secured to a new generation, just like all other life on this planet.
Explain Charles Darwin\'s theory of evolution.
The strong one survives, the weak one dies. I really don´t understand your question.
What caused the Big Bang?
Well we don´t know for sure yet, but wait and see, science will kill God.
Why bother securing DNA for the next genertion? What for? For how long? What will this accomplish?
What about using Darwin in the fact that everything came from a one-celled organism? Why doesn\'t this happen any more? Why no modern proof?
So there is something unexplained! By the time you figure one thing out, there is always another question to be asked. When will science answer every question? Can science answer every question?
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Science is as much of a religion as Catholicism and scientists are sometimes more fanatical than religious zealots. Also, More people die over MONEY and POWER than they do from religion. In the middle ages, the catholic church, and the Pope(at the time the most POWERFUL man on the earth) were drunk with power and they abused it. There were wars fought and sponsored by the catholic church but they were not religious wars. They were wars having to do with power. The Pope saw Islam as a threat to his influence and declared a war against them. This is the case with pretty much every war since. Money is the root of all evil and Power is not much better.
BTW, I am far from a religious person; but I know anyone that condems the religious yet in the same breath pledges their soul to science is just as much of a fool as those he condemned. There SO many things that science can not explain and half of the things they think they can explain are argued amongst scientists for years. Scientists don\'t believe that we were "created" yet they can\'t figure out where we did come from.
I do believe in some form of higher power but I am no where near a religious person. I just know that whether it be spirits or whatever there is something else that scientists will never comprehend. Their god won\'t allow them to.
Peace and Love
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PS. I look forward to your rebutals. I always love a good debate.
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My post keeps on being over-wirtten! Give me a couple minutes to secure my thoughts!
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Originally posted by Gohan
Science is as much of a religion as Catholicism and scientists are sometimes more fanatical than religious zealots. Also, More people die over MONEY and POWER than they do from religion. In the middle ages, the catholic church, and the Pope(at the time the most POWERFUL man on the earth) were drunk with power and they abused it. There were wars fought and sponsored by the catholic church but they were not religious wars. They were wars having to do with power. The Pope saw the islam as a threat to his influence and declared a war against them. This is the case with pretty much every war since. Money is the root of all evil and Power is not much better.
BTW, I am far from a religious person; but I know anyone that condems the religious yet in the same breath pledges their soul to science is just as much of a fool as those he condemned. There SO many things that science can not explain and half of the things they think they can explain are argued amongst "Scientists" for years. Scientists don\'t believe that we were "created" yet they can\'t figure out where we did como from.
I believe in some form of higher power but I am no where near a religious person. I just know that whether it be spirits or whatever there is something else that scientists will never comprehend. Their god won\'t allow them to.
Peace and Love
-ONE-
PS. I look forward to your rebutals. I always love a good debate.
Am I a fool because I don´t belive in God? Because I know the reason why God was created. Because I think religon is a shame to humanity. That I find it pathetic that war and religon is like father and son?
Science is not a religon. Science is based on observations, we can prove that the world is round, religon cant prove that God created earth and universe.
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well it seems to me that its a lot easier to prove the earth is round then to prove who or what created the universe
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Originally posted by macabre
Hey, that is gods plan ! :D
LOL:laughing:
Originally posted by Toxical
You are talking about greed.:D
And not religion or God:).Its because of scientific evolution we become greedier.Or feel unsafe perhaps...Look at lack of energy resourses for example.
In case Bossieman havent noticed my previous post:
I ve read statements from scientists.They couldnt explain a thing about Uri\'s powers.
Mutated food, are you joking, do you think you die of mutaded food, links?
They arent healthy,they are not as nutritious as they were before,our system becomes weaker to deseases.Also look at food with hormones.Cancers are a more common phenomenon because of this.
If you beleive that science is perfect you are totally wrong.No body is perfect.
And ofcourse how would scientist ever think they are wrong when they play God?God is never wrong.Are you?
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Originally posted by Bossieman
That is so wrong, war are started because of religon not people. You know that but you just cant accept it.
That is Sad.
So when did God ever come down and start a war? I don\'t seem to remember that. You say it\'s religion but the God I serve has never told me to kill anyone.
Pride, arrogance, and hate start wars. They are all HUMAN emotions.
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Originally posted by EmperorRob
So when did God ever come down and start a war? I don\'t seem to remember that. You say it\'s religion but the God I serve has never told me to kill anyone.
Pride, arrogance, and hate start wars. They are all HUMAN emotions.
And human emotion is based on religon. The people in the US thinks they are the best, why? Because they thinks so. They have no proof, they just think so. Just like religon.
When did God come down and started a war?
What God? Wich one, there is a couple of thousends, you tell me witch one I I will try to help you. It seems like you think your God is the only God. That is Sad. Would you kill anyone for that?
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Why bother securing DNA for the next genertion? What for? For how long? What will this accomplish?
It will never be accomplished, that`s why it`s called evolution.
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since when is human emotion based on religion. Go find any atheist im pretty sure he has emotions
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Originally posted by Bossieman
Am I a fool because I don´t belive in God? Because I know the reason why God was created. Because I think religon is a shame to humanity. That I find it pathetic that war and religon is like father and son?
Science is not a religon. Science is based on observations, we can prove that the world is round, religon cant prove that God created earth and universe.
a)Nope you are not a fool.
b)You dont know if God is in ourimagination only.If we think that God does not exist there will still be religions.I f we think that God exists its sure we cant compete him,and we arent as wise as him to explain things.You just cant be 100% sure about anything.
c)Its a shame when religion is used for personal perposes.
Most religions give rules for a better society.If religion(either god exists or not)vnever existed we would have lived in a world of chaos.Where everyone lives for his own self(I this is democracy then Hitler was God).
d)Science help for deadlier wars.Even if its for religions wars are made scinece help them instead of prevending them
e)You can explain only some things.Usually only seen.
f)No it can proove God created the universe.But who might have caused the creation out of nothing.But then again who created God before th ecreation of the universe?
My point is that nobody can prove that God exists or not.
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why is it sad to believe your god is the only god. sure there a serveral thousand but i guarantee my god is the only real god
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Quotations are of Mr. Instigator :D
"He will? please explain............. "
I believe that the book of Revelations will be accurate in God\'s dealings with humanity\'s sin.
"Why do people belive[sic] in a God[sic].[sic] Are[sic] our God more correct than a[sic] the God[sic] that some people belive[sic] in Africa. It has to[sic] to be 1000[sic] of Gods, what makes your God the right one? . . . What God? Wich one, there is[sic] a couple of thousends[sic], you tell me witch[sic] one I I[sic] will try to help you. It seems like you think your God is the only God. That is Sad. Would you kill anyone for that?"
I believe that most religions believe in the same entity, just in different ways. I believe that the entity is singular, and omnicient. While others interpret this same entity as a multitude of entities. Many of the priciples are the same, but the procedures for worship differ.
"Remember[sic] people are killing eachothe[sic] because they belive[sic] in different Gods[sic], isn´t that pathetic?"
It is pathetic, but many time groups of people fight for selfish goals, and twist religion as a moral purpose.
"religon[sic] cant[sic] prove that God created earth and universe."
Neither can science prove that God didn\'t create the earth and universe!
Science is about disproving a hypothesis (in this case, that God exists) with facts. So far I have not seen one fact that proves beyond a doubt that there is no powerful entity and creator.
"And human emotion is based on religon. The people in the US thinks[sic] they are the best, why? Because they thinks[sic] so. They have no proof, they just think so. Just like religon."
Human emotion? Let me say that of all the "bad" traits of humankind are created from sin (IMB). My religion has never told me to sin, in fact, I should avoid sin. Because I don\'t always follow my religions guidelins is not my religions fault, but mine.
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Originally posted by Tetrad
why is it sad to believe your god is the only god. sure there a serveral thousand but i guarantee my god is the only real god
And that is the one reason that people starts killing eachother. My God is right your one is wrong I will kill you.
That is why it is sad. People like you are the reason war exists, how can you say something like you just did?!?
Why would your God be the only one?!?
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I´m sorry if I had made anyone angry. This is a debate nothing else, we can belive whatever we want.
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your quick to blaim everything on religion arent you. I would never kill a person because they dont share my belifes. It isnt religions falt humans perform horrible acts. why dont we get rid of all material possesions. That would stop a lot of killing. I said my god is the only real god because that is what i believe. Why have you started this thread? because it is what you believe.
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Originally posted by Tetrad
your quick to blaim everything on religion arent you. I would never kill a person because they dont share my belifes. It isnt religions falt humans perform horrible acts. why dont we get rid of all material possesions. That would stop a lot of killing. I said my god is the only real god because that is what i believe. Why have you started this thread? because it is what you believe.
You belive your God is the only one? I´m sorry but for me it sounds crazy, why would your God be right, can´t you prove it or something?!?
I have to sleep now, see you all tomorrow..........
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I TOLD YA\'LL LAMAS ARE GOD THEY CREATED EVERYTHING AND THEY CAN KILL EVERY BODY AT THE SAME TIME..or we should worship toast instead of god cuz like god toast doesnt talk and tosat leaves crumbs unlike god and toast is tastey and like god toast works in misterys wayz......GO 9ERS
then the baby looked at me
:)
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the bible is proff enough for me. But no i cant say something to make you believe. Can you prove that god isnt real? the fact is no onw can prove he is real or not. Like i said this is just what i believe. you are free to think what you want
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Originally posted by Bossieman
And that is the one reason that people starts killing eachother. My God is right your one is wrong I will kill you.
That is why it is sad. People like you are the reason war exists, how can you say something like you just did?!?
Why would your God be the only one?!?
You beleive that if there were no religions we wouldnt have had wars?What you just mentioned is only a kind of war (which is rarer than the other kinds of war).
My God is right your one is wrong I will kill you.
This mostly counts for the muslims.
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Shiiaaat, this is getting nasty :D
Let us just say the following:
1) We can not prove or disprove the existence of God.
2) God as a standalone icon of goodness and righteousness is alright.
3) Men take God, and through God religion to extremes, which ends up killing the innocent, robbing the poor, and limiting human growth. IMO.
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ok look you have to gods to chose from
LAMA TOAST
no other god exstied sceince is wrong and i know that becuz i am aaa scienictest and i\'ve been un covering the key to life for hours "3" to be axsact and it states in the bible "lamas are god and they will eat you" lama 3:16
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your a strange one twisted metal
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Wow, what a heated topic.
Well here is my views on this.
There is a God. You do not have to see him to know he\'s there. I mean when you go outside and feel a strong breeze you can\'t see it! That\'s just like God. He\'s there.
If you believe in him and praise him, you will be saved and have eternal life after this life. God sent his one son Jesus Christ to the earth to save us. I mean isn\'t that enough? You sent someone to die for us.
As for this "religion causes war" talk.. Man is naturally sinful. No man is perfect. Only God is. God has a plan for all of us. It is just bad things along the way that derails us from getting to him. It\'s man\'s selfish nature that causes war and such, not religion.
I don\'t know about you guys, but I believe in the Bible. You should read it, it\'s the most valuable book around. The world getting more corrupt and corrupt everyday. It is only a matter of time before God graces us on earth once again. When that time comes, it is all (God & heaven) or nothing (hellfire, sin, etc.).
That is what I believe and you believe what you want, but when God comes, I will be ready... :D
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man serrano007 when you get eatin by a lama its not my fault...you be prepared wit a stick or a catapiler when the lamas come cuz there is not stoppin them
:)
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Amen seranno
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Originally posted by TwIsTeD mEtAl
man serrano007 when you get eatin by a lama its not my fault...you be prepared wit a stick or a catapiler when the lamas come cuz there is not stoppin them
:)
lama: (noun) a Buddhist monk of Tibet or Mongolia.
llama: (noun) any of a genus of wild or domesticated South American mammals related to the camels but smaller and without a hump.
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Heh.
You are messed up in the head twisted metal. :D
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Ok, twisted, you can play with llamas,
just don\'t play with goats, donkeys, and sheep riiighhht? :D
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Originally posted by TwIsTeD mEtAl
OOOO mr. big shot just becuz lamas and toast are the only way to explain life makes me "messed up in the head" well srrryyyyy if my opions are differnt from yours mr.o im so right lamas are gay blah blah blah man when you die from a lama dont come running to me and say yo mo
:)
So. . . are you admitting Buddhism or what? \'Cause lamas are Buddhist.
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OOOO mr. big shot just becuz lamas and toast are the only way to explain life makes me "messed up in the head" well srrryyyyy if my opions are differnt from yours mr.o im so right lamas are gay blah blah blah man when you die from a lama dont come running to me and say yo mo
:)
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go point Troglodyte now i dont know weather to laugh at his posts or take him seriously.
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I like lama\'s religion.
And I like llama\'s taste.Its better than McDonalds.
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man lamas and toast not "burnt" toast can make one man 3 feet taller in 8 years.....milk
:)
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Originally posted by TwIsTeD mEtAl
man im not buddist man im pants less boy who likes to smell dead cows...
:)
Then what\'s your deal with lamas?
Lamas are Buddhist! (See my post giving the definitions of lama, and llama.)
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it appears without bossieman this thread has gone way off topic. It was fun while it lasted now im bored again
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man im not buddist man im pants less boy who likes to smell dead cows...
:)
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keep posting metal your almost a member
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I think I\'ve found some glitch or something! Three times now I\'ve tried to make a new post and my previous post, whether it be two or three posts away, is overwritten!
I\'m trying to tell Mr. Metal Spammer here that a lama is a buddhist monk.
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i know thats what im doin hehe
:)
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Sit back and crack open a cold one, because Uncle Weltall is gonna touch on many points.
I have a distrust and hatred for religion. Religion and religious differences have been the cause of far too many wars, from the Holy Crusades to WWII. Millions and millions of people have died in the name of religion. I believe that all organized religions are corrupt and self-serving, and I single out the Catholic Church over the rest, as they have quite a bloodstained history of powermongering and massacre. But Protestant, Islam, Jewish, all the rest are equally corrupt. They use God (or whatever) to justify doing things like killing or taking money. They try to interfere in politics. They want to control us.
I personally follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I celebrate Christmas and Easter. I believe in the Lord our God. But I also thing the Bible is used in the wrong ways by religion and science alike. Religion uses the Bible to inform us that certain things, like homosexuality and pornography and, basically enjoying life at all is a sin and will earn you a one way ticket straight to Satan\'s Furnace. They use the Good Book to twist and manipulate people into believing what they want.
Scientists also frequently refer to the Bible to discredit and disprove religion. Sure, I don\'t think Moses REALLY parted the Red Sea to cross into Israel, but that doesn\'t discredit God. Scientists use the Good Book to twist and manipulate people to disbelieving what they want.
But they both overlook one crucial point, that invalidates all of their opinions:
GOD DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE.
The books of the Bible were written by Man. Anyone who has read the Bible knows that God was never the type to make things clear for His children. God never gave mankind the straight talk, he was always somewhat cryptic. And, it\'s never noted that he told any man all about how he did what he did. We\'re told that the universe is created in six days, and on the seventh day he rested, but never is any detail given into how it was done.
I don\'t think it was a work of magic that created Earth. The Bible depicts primitive Man\'s interpretation of how it happened. But who\'s to say God wasn\'t responsible for the Big Bang? Science cannot disprove the existence of God, and Religion cannot prove the existence of God. It could very well be that there is no God, and it\'s equally likely that God exists in such a state that we cannot comprehend. Science is anything but absolute. Science is full of guesses. Science is more theory than law. Religion is also more theory than law. And both are completely the product of Mankind. There are many religions, but almost all of them share a great deal of similarities, which leads me to believe that different religions interpret the same ideas in very different ways.
God is very important to us today. Even though we\'ve seen no solid evidence he exists, he exists in people\'s minds, and while religion may serve as a reason to breed war, God is not a religion. God is a being AND He is and ideal. The fear or love of God gives moral support to those who might not otherwise have it. The fear of Hell may be used by unsavory televangelists to force you into accepting their beliefs, but it also serves to deter people from commiting certain acts that SHOULD get you sent to hell, such as murder or rape. God inspires love as well as hate. The love and fear of God is the very essence of the moral fabric of our society. And that is interpreted through religion. Religion is not all bad, and neither is Science. Consequently, neither are all good. Science has been used to give people heart transplants. It\'s also been used to create machines of war that have killed millions. Science follows many of the same rules as religion, and in my eyes is a religion of its own, a religion that worships change as a god.
To the original topic of the thread, Humans are animals, but we are so much more than animals. In a most basic sense animals can do anything Humans can do. A monkey can paint a picture, a human can create a lifelike masterpiece that is almost indistinguishable from reality. Ants can built enormous anthills where millions of ants can live, humans can build large collections of aesthetically correct structures to live in. Chimps like Clyde use tools to catch ants, and otters use rocks to crack open oysters, Humans use tools that are much more advanced. What sets humans apart from other animals is that we are much much more intelligent. Physically, human beings are not impressive at all. We cannot run from danger because we are not that fast. We couldn\'t fend off a hungry tiger because we lack the teeth and claws. Physically, we are a very weak species. However, we have very very large and complex brains, much moreso than any other animal. We can\'t fight a tiger with our natural claws (nails), so we built spears and bows to fight them. We developed new ways to defend ourselves because we adapt so much faster than other animals. Humans were really given the short straw in the big scheme of things, but we were also given the most beautiful brains of any creature, and that one single advantage is what is responsible for us being the dominant species on this planet instead of being extinct, which is where we\'d be without our brains. We are more than animals, and we are less than animals.
*whew*
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LAMAS are not budhist you monk
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I applaud you Weltall. You have said what I\'ve been trying to say, and yet again I was at a loss for the "perfect" words.
I\'m gonna stop posting at this thread for tonight, I\'m gonna observe for the rest of tonight and come back later with my opinons.
Thanks again Weltall.
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I disagree with you on one point there Weltall. While God did not phisically write the Bible I believe he used man as a medium to get what he wanted to be know know. I believe God spoke through man to create the Bible. Some of the earlier Books of the Bible were written by people 20 or 30 years after the person experienced it and yet the Bible is very specific, something I don\'t believe man could\'ve achieved by himself.
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man wetall thats what i was TRYING to say but these people just didnt get it......lama
:)
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The earlier books of the Bible, to the best of my knowledge, heve never been attributed to anyone. I don\'t think we know who exactly wrote those books. But I think you are right, God used Man as a medium to tell the stories of the Bible. I wasn\'t too clear but my point was, The Bible is written by Man, and Man didn\'t know the details. Even if God used Man as a medium, who\'s to say he told Man everything? I think metaphysical things like the Big Bang would be a little over the heads of Man at the time, so Man wrote things as he saw them. My main point is that Religion and Science both refer to the Bible as the absolute authority on religious matters, but I don\'t believe that the authors of the Bible knew all of what was going on. Also, Man is known to embellish his stories:D
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as far as i know mosses wrote those books
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Wait a minute, God spoke through flaming bushes to men, who wrote "Supposedly Gods words" down...
I really think the bible is a lets all feel good type of book, and is not meant to be made into a work of God. IMO.
I think we don\'t need to go to church, why, cause I ain\'t telling no men my “Sins”. I think the only reason people went to confession in the dark ages was because the Church was so corrupt they wanted to keep tabs on people stealing, looting, not paying taxes, whatever... right? IMO
I remember what my grandpa said before he died, he was 105 when he died. "Don\'t trust men, for they will take advantage of your good intentions." So priests/preachers/Popes/Rabbi/whatever can kiss my A$$. God don\'t speak through them, they are sinners, just like the rest of us. (if you believe in sin of course)
IMO
Absolute power corrupts absolutely
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you dont have to go to church. I always found it comforting to be with other christains and you dont have to tell people your sins. thats only catholic stuff which im not a fan of. and as far as the burning bush thing he did that because god as himself is not comprehendable to men so god would appear in a simpler form, as far as i believe. and just because people are sinners doesnt mean he doent speak to them. they are spiritual leaders who im sure would admit to sin and if they dont they are full of crap
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Originally posted by Bossieman
When did God come down and started a war?
What God? Wich one, there is a couple of thousends, you tell me witch one I I will try to help you. It seems like you think your God is the only God. That is Sad. Would you kill anyone for that?
I do believe my God is the only God. I don\'t have to fight for my beliefs, b/c in this country I have that freedom. In some countries Chrisitians are persecuted and killed for just believing in God.
Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
-Hebrews 12:14
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ok i have a question for everyone...
if god created man and the creatures of the world/universe then who created god - did he just appear - i mean there is a reason theory of how the universe came to be but there is no good reason of how god was created unless he was imagined by some man
religion was not always here - so why didn\'t the cave men believe in god - why didn\'t god do anything with the cave men they killed each other yet god did stop it
also i just can\'t believe in something when there is nothing but a book written - and people believe and take this book too seriously
all i gotta say is why did god create me - what gave him the right to - i mean if there is a god - i never choose to be created but yet if i didn\'t want to be here and kill myself i am damned to hell - why should i i don\'t wanna be there or here i just wanted to have a choice
well thats just to say - i mean i don\'t wanna kill myself - just something i have thought about
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I believe God was just always there. An eternal being. As for the "cave men" do you know one? How do you know the "cave men" didnt believe in God. As for the cave men killing each other im confused with what your saying. And man I don\'t take it to seriously you just don\'t take it serious at all. Why would God need permission to create you?
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You could answer a lot of your questions by reading the first few chapters of Genesis.
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hmmm i don\'t seem to recall Dinosaurs or Neaderthals in the book of Genesis do you?
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No I don\'t. Mayeb God just put those remains there to confuse the people. Who are we to say.
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ok so you are saying god has every right to **** with our minds - he preaches one thing and just happens to not tell us the other thing - or maybe thats because the person at time that brought religion to the world didn\'t knwo that they existed
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Some of you assume there is a God, those are your opinions, but what IF there ain\'t a God?
What would this mean to Religion/The Bible/Priests etc... in general?
I think Religion has become an institution a corporate entity with huge monetary holdings, and behind the scene power.
I believe what I see, hear, taste, touch, No, I’m not a scientist, nor do I have to be one to want to know the "Truth". (This reminds me of the X-Files, "The truth is out there")
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And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
-Hebrews 11:6
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[On a side Note]
I think I pretty much covered the theory of evolution in GREAT detail in a previous thread - http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10614&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
(pages 2 & 3 I belive. If anyone has any further questions feel free to pose them if the answers aren\'t already covered in the thread)
I\'m a staunch believer in the scientific method, but I still believe in God. I think it\'s very much possible to do both.
I was before going to comment about the few who said that Muslims are the \'only\' people who kill over religion, but Weltall pretty much said what I was going to say. I also agree with what he said about how the stories in the bible shouldn\'t be taken literally.
When God sent the rains down to take out everything on earth, did the fish drown?
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3 pages of junk! I am not going to sort over all that stuff, instead, give an opinion that might not have been stated here.
God created man to have free agency, the ability to choose from right and wrong. Evolution has many flaws, just as many religions today have flaws. The point is, religion and beliefs in a higher power create the need for people to follow the laws of the land, the golden rule, and be nice to people that make them mad. If we were all athiests you better believe that all of the wars still would\'ve been fought, just not over the same thing. I also believe that there would be more wars.
wars have been fought over soccer games and name calling. People will fight to protect their ideas and beliefs and you better believe that scientists would fight, too. As they are no better than us "commonfolk".
I do love, Bossieman, how you belittle us christians and other religious people and believe you are of a higher mind. The fact that you don\'t believe is mystifying because there are millions of things out there that Science can\'t and never will explain. But I will not belittle you or people like you, because that is your beliefs. I do however feel kind of sorry for athiests or christians who work their faith based around THEIR own needs at the time or people who act on faith alone without works.
How can people still believe in God, you ask, in this day and age? Look all around us. Hate crimes, robberies, murder, rape, etc. are committed every day and people want to believe that one day, after they die, they will go to a better place, where their intelligence can go. Where there is no crime, only perfection. Maybe living in Sweden (the greatest country in the world in your opinion) has clouded your mind about how the REST of the world lives.
I do believe, however, that their is only ONE true religion. If you look around, you see the Jews and Muslims fighting over "Holy Land" in Israel/Pakistan. I believe their minds are in completely the wrong place and EXTREMELY hypocritical. They teach of forgiveness of enemies, yet never do and willingly kill innocent people just to show their beliefs. THat is sad to me, that it has come to this. Look around your community and see which kinds of people commit crimes less often, live longer, live happier, and are more educated. I would be willing to bet anything that 90% of the time, they are Religious people, while Athiests (or scientists in your opinion) who have nothing to strive for (perfection) get more often into drugs, and crime.
I am a highly religious person, I must be dumber than you Bossieman.
Eric Jacob
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Lavan that obviously wasnt the point with the flooding. He wasn\'t trying to kill the fish. He was trying to start over again because the people were to sinful. Thus that would also kill all the land animals so he needed the arc. Of course the fish didnt drown that would be beside the point. The fish werent the sinners anyway.
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Lavan how can you possible believe in God and evolution. To believe in evolution is to give up all your faith. Just read the first chapter of the Bible. It doesnt say God created man to eventually evolve into his image. It says He created man in His image
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I must, however, add some things as I read some of the replies before mine.
I believe in adaption, but not evolution.
all you "scientists" out there, please answer some of my questions, as best you can.
Where did that speck of \'dust\' come from that started the big bang (note: I am reading A Brief History of Time by S. Hawking)? There always has to be a start to something. What was the universe before it was the universe.
to Christians: How was God created? That has been one of my toughest questions in my quest for knowledge. I hope after I die, I learn the answer.
When you do something wrong, do you feel guilty?
Is there any moral set that you live by?
you gotta remember, these scientists from long ago were probably very religious, and they knew so little in terms of science than we do now.
Weltall - WWII was started because a man wanted power, more to the point, the world. Not religion. Jew and Catholic hating was just the scapegoat of Himmler and Hitler to get support from his own country to keep doing the things he did. There are also religions out there that are extremely corrupt. I do agree that the Catholic religion has had such a horrible past, I wonder how they can still be around. There are many problems with the religion, but I still am friends with many catholics.
but there are many religions out there that Have NEVER started wars, taken the offensive about land or are corrupt in their respect. The Bible, translated and taken in to meaning correctly IS the word of God. If you believe the teachings of Christ, you should also follow what the Bible says (again correct). Also, the Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc. are records of a people, started as journal-like things. The difference is, these records are written by people inspired by God. The reason you hate the Bible is not the words itself, it is because years of greedy Popes and rabbis have changed the actual meanings to twist into what they need. Money is something these supposed people are driven by and the abuse the actual meanings the bible has gotten over the years is ASTOUNDING. The Catholic church alone has changed so much to the bible: refusal of translation, taking parts out, adding books in, etc.
Eric Jacob
PS: this is in NO way meant to belittle anyone, just makes you think, makes ME think.
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I would be willing to bet anything that 90% of the time, they are Religious people, while Athiests (or scientists in your opinion) who have nothing to strive for (perfection) get more often into drugs, and crime.
There is some truth in it, but I don`t agree when someone says that I`m a bad person because I don`t believe.
I always try to be nice and helpful - but not cause it`s written in the bible.
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I can believe in God and Evolution, I just don\'t have to believe it in the way it\'s written in the Bible. You can just read my thread about Evolution - in the scientific community there is NO discussion about whether or not evolution is real - it is fact. But just because I believe in Evolution doesn\'t mean I don\'t think there isn\'t a higher power. I cannot imagine living without faith, and I am sure the vast majority of scientists still believe in God.
If you dislike my beliefs then that\'s where the conflict over religions and beliefs starts - which is what Bossieman was getting at in the first place.
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I will answer the christian part,
1.One of the toughest questions I will agree. I have come to the conclusion that God is an eternal being, always was there always will be.
2.Yes when i do stuff that i know is wrong but stupidly do it anyway i feel very guilty and ashamed.
3.I just try to live as sin free life as i can.
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Lavan if you dont have a conflict of religion you are bound to have a conflict about something else. His point about religion being the sole reason for all hate and war has no base.
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Originally posted by Tetrad
Lavan if you dont have a conflict of religion you are bound to have a conflict about something else.
You lost me, what do you mean?
Originally posted by Tetrad
His point about religion being the sole reason for all hate and war has no base.
He didn\'t say it was the SOLE reason for ALL hate and war. But just look at history and how many wars have been waged over religion - European colonization was fueled by Catholicsm (heck, the Pope divided up South America for Portugal and Spain) - many wars were fought, millions died, and much of the political and civil instability in Africa is a result of the barriers brought up by Colonialism. This is just one example, with one religion.
Everyone points at Jews and Muslims, but look at Northern Ireland, the Protestants and Catholics still don\'t get along.
One of Bossieman\'s points was that religion has caused so much war and bloodshed - that\'s something I agree with wholeheartedly.
But that doesn\'t mean we should just get rid of all organized religions - I don\'t think we can live without faith. I know I can\'t.
Anyone see Dogma? Tetrad, if you haven\'t you should.
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No never seen it but i will since you suggested. As far as i could tell he blaimed war and hate on human emotion and then he said
And human emotion is based on religon. .
Thus he was saying it is the falt of religion. Yes because of misguided cathlolics thought it was right to kill the native americans because they didnt except their god. There is no question that is wrong but they werent just fighting over religion they were fighting over a conflict in beliefs. There woulda been plenty of wars without religion and its late and i have no idea what im talking about anymore im out for the night and will be going on vacation tomorrow so see you all in the end of July.
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That is where my opinion steps in.
Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, etc, are following a wrong faith here. They are willing to kill people over their opinions, while other faiths would never act on others unless being in the defense.
Many people such as the ones listed above will never forgive such as Jews in terms of the Holocaust. I know so many old Jewish people that are bitter and hateful because of that and it happened over 50 years ago. forgive. I have forgiven the mobs that killed the first leader of my church or how people drove my people out of New York, Missouri, etc. causing the deaths of thousands. The assassanation of the leader of the Jewish faith would\'ve been probably caused less of an uproar among old Jews than the death of around 7 million in WWII.
forgive and forget! Make peace not war! open your mind to anothers perspective and RESPECT that opinion, while explaing your own point of view! so many of the people in this world make me sick to my stomach just thinking of the hate they have over things that happened before they were born.
Case in point: Japanese demanding an apology for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, while NEVER giving one for Pearl Harbor. Jews having an apology from the pope himself for killing so many of their people. african americans taking action on slavery that happened over 100 years ago, probably only causing more hatred of them by idiots like KKK members, etc. I am sorry that my race had slaves, but why should I be punished for it?
don\'t get me started on this junk!
Eric Jacob
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"To err is human" (somebody famous said that).
Oh boy, I said I\'d wait a day, but by then I\'d have too much to say!
I believe that through misinterpretations and loss of original transcripts some of the stories could have been altered, but the principles remain.
I believe that while going to church is not absolutely necessary, but to gather with others of your faith to "keep you in check" is always helpful.
Science explains the start of our material universe by a random event. Now I don\'t have the numbers of that happening, but if the start of the universe was random, then I\'m buying a lottery ticket for every state and I\'m going to win every one \'cause I have a better chance of doing that then having a universe start. God is a "timeless" entity, and in accordance to his "master plan" he started up a little thing we call the universe. I believe that it is not in our capacity to understand this master plan.
During the time of the Dinosaurs, the Bible focuses on the Garden of Eden, a place separate to the rest of the world.
I too believe in adaptation, not full scale evolution. We could very well have steered away from God\'s image when he created us. We\'ve changed a lot, but I am not a descendent of a one-celled organism.
I can\'t remember words exactly, I\'m not a writer. But "Blessed are those who believe me when they see me, but even more blessed are those that belive and never seer me" - Jesus.
I believe that I will be blessed when I pass my soul and be able then to understand all the questions I have on God. I\'m not going to waste my life questioning something that I\'ve already decided I\'m not meant to understand in my physical state.
To those who try to be nice people and still don\'t believe in God. I believe that your conscious is in fact, you soul, being guided by the Holy Spirit. Just as we are born into sin, we have a natural tendency to be like God.
I wouldn\'t use Hollywood (movies) as an argument for anything. Most movies change facts for entertainment value.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
a)God is a "timeless" entity, and in accordance to his "master plan" he started up a little thing we call the universe......b)During the time of the Dinosaurs, the Bible focuses on the Garden of Eden, a place separate to the rest of the world.
a)Perhaps this is the answer to the question :who created God.Time is what determines a state,condition and place of something.With time you can explain a begining and an end,a creation and its alteration.If God is timeless.Plain and simple.timeless=never started and it will never end.
b)Did you know that archeologists discovered manmade drawings in caves and rocks,manmade tools,and footprints that are estimated to had been made in the ages of the dinosaurs??
When Sofoklis(if I remember well from what I ve read) went to egypt an egyptian told him that earth was destroyied 3 times and that more advanced humans excisted before them.
Then there is someone else(I dont remember who he is)that beleives human beings lived in another planet before coming to earth.Could this be the Garden of Eden??
We should remember that the Bible is parabolic.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
I wouldn\'t use Hollywood (movies) as an argument for anything. Most movies change facts for entertainment value.
"Left Behind" was a pretty good movie. As far as I know, it was directed by a Christian director. The movie is pretty good and gives an eerie representation of what will happen when the Rapture arrives. ooo spooky :D
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Originally posted by Unicron!
When Sofoklis(if I remember well from what I ve read) went to egypt an egyptian told him that earth was destroyied 3 times and that more advanced humans excisted before them.
Then there is someone else(I dont remember who he is)that beleives human beings lived in another planet before coming to earth.Could this be the Garden of Eden??
We should remember that the Bible is parabolic.
That\'s quite interesting! It is a possiblity, and when I can find the time I will look into it. It could be a parallel to what is recorded in the Bible.
I also saw "Left Behind," but the movie did have it\'s inconsistencies.
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
hmmm i don\'t seem to recall Dinosaurs or Neaderthals in the book of Genesis do you?
No I certainly don\'t and that should tell you all you need to know.
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Religeion is Opium for the MASSES. It corrupts the mind OF THE WORKER!!! IT must be ELIMINATED!!!!!
*que Soviet Banner
*que Soviet Anthem
[insert hammer and sykel image here]
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Originally posted by Bossieman
Prove it, tell me some things that science can´t explain ok?
Okay...explain God...try that one!
You asked for the challenge, so don\'t hit me with
suppositions. Prove it. Prove God exists...if science can explain everything. Again,...proof...not supposition & theory.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
Is our God more correct than a the God that some people belive in Africa. It has to to be 1000 of Gods, what makes your God the right one?
Remember people are killing eachothe because they belive in different Gods, isn´t that pathetic?
To this basic point, you and I agree. A zealous and jealous human nature seems determined to believe itself more important than all others (including other humans)...and to that end, we destroy each other in the vain attempt to be "the chosen few". What *is* truely sad is how similar (not to say that different religions have their differences, they do) religions are to one another...their histories, their purposeful intentions, and their desire to foster loyalty to a supreme being(s). Its ashame that each looks to its "own god" as THE GOD...and seems to lose site that perhaps "they" [G/god(s)] are all just one and the same.
I realize, bossieman, that as a scientist that does not believe in a God, you will not agree with this point. That is your choice. And I say God gave that to you.
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Originally posted by nO-One
There are ofcourse good things that have come from this religion,for example christmas is a time when most people are happy.
Ouch...man, I wish you hadn\'t said that... Care to dig up some statistics regarding which part of the year comprises some of the highest rates of suicide? Yup...Christmas time. All religion aside, folks are most depressed during this time of the year. Although this point is debatable, there is merit in the fact that the commercialization of Christmas can depress a portion of society that cannot meet the economical and/or emotional demands of holiday expectation or handle the contempt felt for not having friends/family to share in a time that, again, the images of Norman Rockwell have inshrined as "perfect".
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Originally posted by Toxical
Shiiaaat, this is getting nasty :D
Let us just say the following:
1) We can not prove or disprove the existence of God.
2) God as a standalone icon of goodness and righteousness is alright.
3) Men take God, and through God religion to extremes, which ends up killing the innocent, robbing the poor, and limiting human growth. IMO.
DAMN RIGHT and to the point!
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w1ngman - okay, first off I have to say that I believe in God.
Now, about your screaming to the heavens PROOOOVEEEE ITTTTT!! Well, it\'s hard to prove an abstract concept. That\'s like pointing to a yellow car and asking me what colour it is, I say it\'s yellow, you say prove it, I say it\'s yellow because it reflects light at a certain wavelength, you say, but "prove it\'s Y E L L O W".
What are our conditions for proving the existance of God? Should we set up a test experiment - let\'s say we get some poor bastard to jump off a cliff, but before he does so, he prays to God to save him. I think we all know what the outcome of that will be.
Of course, just because we cannot prove that God DOESN\'T exist, means that he DOES exist. I mean, we could have other abstract concepts, say we can\'t prove that God DOESN\'T exist, but then does that mean that we are all really a part of a massive experiment by alien beings who have created a universe for us and are currently watching me as I type this on my computer? See it\'s all very absurd, but I hope you see my point.
When Bossieman said that science can explain everything, he didn\'t mean abstract concepts. He meant say, \'Explain emotions using science\' - and he would say they\'re merely electrical signals in our brain.
I\'m playing devil\'s advocate here, since I do believe in God, but I am also a scientist and Bossieman\'s not here right now to reply.
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Does anyone know why this argument has died down? Well I will tell you.
It stems from a few select people whose opinions and ideas will never change, even when they are presented with other sides of the arguments, not suggesting they are even right, just suggesting that the other side open his mind.
Bossieman has apparently has a total lack of knowledge on what it is to present an argument. An argument is not made to impress people, an argument is to state your point, while coming out correct. Well, when you make statements you cannot back up and someone tells you to prove those ideas or states opinions directly opposite of yours while still not proving them, you should at least listen!
I don\'t know what you have against Americans but it really goes to show you that stereotypes run rampant, yes even among the "scientists". No, Most americans do NOT run around saying how we are better than every other country. You would be a fool to think that. Why? Because we are made up of every other country! My ancestors are mainly from Sweden and it mystifies me how I developed into such an open-minded person when all the Swedes, Norwegians, Icelandics, etc. I have met obviously do not know how to learn anything new or at least accomadate the idea.
I don\'t care what the heck you believe in, but you BETTER believe that the world is going bye-bye soon. Whether it be through chemical-nuclear warfare (your point of view) or the Second Coming of Christ (my point of view). I give it around 30 years. Be afraid, be very afraid. and if it is WAR. you know what will motivate this human ending war? Stupidity, ignorance, jealousy, pride, greed, all things some of the members on this board facilitate every day, unfortunately. It seems we have not \'evolved\', as we are still killing eachother over stupid crap like opinions. Get over yourselves.
I find it funny that we look at aliens to be of higher intelligence than us, therefore peaceful. How did they get passed this stage of evolution than? (our stage) Stopping war is easy, you follow simple Christian ethics: forgive and forget!
get over yourselves and get to church. Because faith without works is dead, and surely no faith is worse.
Eric Jacob
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Ohhh crap! I just saw a GT3 commercial on TV!!! There, bossieman!!! There, in the inherent goodness that is GT3, is my proof that God exists!!! :D
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Originally posted by Lavan
"prove it\'s Y E L L O W".
What are our conditions for proving the existance of God? Should we set up a test experiment - let\'s say we get some poor bastard to jump off a cliff, but before he does so, he prays to God to save him. I think we all know what the outcome of that will be.
When Bossieman said that science can explain everything, he didn\'t mean abstract concepts. He meant say, \'Explain emotions using science\' - and he would say they\'re merely electrical signals in our brain.
Good example.
About the cliff thing. There is a story in the Bible in which the Devil asks Jesus to jump off a cliff, and ask God to save him. Surely God would save his son. But Jesus said something to the effect that God had said not to be selfish and request proof, for seeing is not always believing.
The point we are trying to establish is that science, under human limitations, cannot prove everyting (like abstract concepts). But we have faith in something (God) which can answer some of the questions that science can\'t.
UPDATE: Altered, this thread started Monday at 3:42 in the afternoon (my time). For me it\'s 1:27 in the morning of Tuesday, and there has already been over 100 posts! How is that dying down? Sure it\'s slowed down from the begining, but that\'s because people (in contrast to me) have lives outside of this forum. Be patient, and don\'t pass judgement, for it is not in our place to judge.
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Originally posted by Lavan
...When Bossieman said that science can explain everything, he didn\'t mean abstract concepts. He meant say, \'Explain emotions using science\' - and he would say they\'re merely electrical signals in our brain.
I\'m playing devil\'s advocate here, since I do believe in God, but I am also a scientist and Bossieman\'s not here right now to reply.
Thanks Lavan, and I understand your points. First, getting past the "screaming", I think we can all appreciate that sometimes CAPS are just caps meant to stress a point...they don\'t ALWAYS have to insinuate screaming...do they? Weak point of argument on my part; just appreciate that I did not type in CAPS to scream my point across...only to emphasize.
Bossieman will awake and will be able to defend himself at that time...I don\'t believe he needs a 2nd to take his fight for him. But thanks for doing so anyway. I realize these forums are not a "chat" area...I was simply reading down through the posts & replying with my thoughts as I considered them of interest (if to nobody other than my own self-important sense of ego :D)
Lastly, I don\'t agree with your comment about proving the abstract. Bossieman was quite specific in earlier posts...he said science can explain everything. *Every*thing notice how I didn\'t use CAPS that time :D
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Also, since we as humans have free agency, we should expect God to not come and save us when we act incredibly stupid, such as jumping off a cliff. But miracles have been known to happen.
People have been shot and lived, the bullet being stopped by a pocketwatch and buttons and things. You may, Bossieman, say that that is all luck or what not, but I say that it is not, especially when these people go on to do huge things, that has got to be divine intervention.
If you are dumb enough to jump off a cliff or do drugs, etc. you should be expected to pay the consequences. Making people do things to prove God exist is something that just makes me angry. Prove to me that 1 million dollars exist, after all I have never even seen more than a few thousand or so in actual money. prove me a million. Or we will set a flower out in the desert and see if evolution can save it. :) of course I am being foolish, but anyone who looks for signs everywhere than God exists is none smarter than those statements.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
The point we are trying to establish is that science, under human limitations, cannot prove everyting (like abstract concepts). But we have faith in something (God) which can answer some of the questions that science can\'t.
Amen. I, like most scientists, feel (or know, whichever makes you less upset) that Evolution is fact. Just read my long ass posts in the thread I posted a link to. But just because I believe that we have evolved from Chimpanzees and Bonobos (our closest relatives determined through DNA sequence analysis etc) does not mean that I don\'t believe in God, and that there isn\'t a higher being somewhere who masterminded all of this.
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Originally posted by Lavan
Amen. I, like most scientists, feel (or know, whichever makes you less upset) that Evolution is fact. Just read my long ass posts in the thread I posted a link to. But just because I believe that we have evolved from Chimpanzees and Bonobos (our closest relatives determined through DNA sequence analysis etc) does not mean that I don\'t believe in God, and that there isn\'t a higher being somewhere who masterminded all of this.
Do you believe that we all came from one-celled organisms? I\'m sorry, but I found the link confusing.
I might be able to agree that we may have come from Bonobos. For all I know Bonobos was the image of God in which we were dreated. An it could have been the original sin, and Adam being cast out of the Garden of Eden that first sparked a need to evolve into a being that could live in the harsh, new surroundings.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
If you are dumb enough to jump off a cliff or do drugs, etc. you should be expected to pay the consequences. Making people do things to prove God exist is something that just makes me angry. Prove to me that 1 million dollars exist, after all I have never even seen more than a few thousand or so in actual money. prove me a million. Or we will set a flower out in the desert and see if evolution can save it. :) of course I am being foolish, but anyone who looks for signs everywhere than God exists is none smarter than those statements.
[Just a side note] We CAN prove that Evolution has occured - just read the thread that I posted before. I just want to make that clear to people - evolution is NOT an abstract concept. If anyone wants to discuss that, just read ALL the posts in that thread where I give multiple examples and a brief (but still in depth) overview of the Modern Synthesis.
If you don\'t want to believe evolution then you shouldn\'t believe in medicine and biological sciences - all are founded and proven upon the same principles. If the mountain of evidence supporting evolution through natural selection is bs, then every medicine you take is a placebo.
[btw, this wasn\'t directed at you Eric, just a general rant that I wanted to get off my chest before I hit the sack]
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Do you believe that we all came from one-celled organisms? I\'m sorry, but I found the link confusing.
I might be able to agree that we may have come from Bonobos. For all I know Bonobos was the image of God in which we were dreated. An it could have been the original sin, and Adam being cast out of the Garden of Eden that first sparked a need to evolve into a being that could live in the harsh, new surroundings.
Just look for every one of my posts starting on page three of that thread (it really starts near the bottom of page 2) and read - even if you disagree wholeheartedly (which is fine), it will at least give you a greater insight into the science, and will definately clear up many of the misconceptions that people have about the modern synthesis and evolution - it\'s far too much for me to cut and paste here.
SonyFan and I had a really good dialogue there, and he comes up with a lot of counterpoints against evolution that I respond to in depth , so if you\'re interested it\'s a good read.
EDIT: I\'m off to bed, \'nite all. Bossieman, you have a lot of retorts to make! ;)
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
hmmm i don\'t seem to recall Dinosaurs or Neaderthals in the book of Genesis do you?
There are dinosaurs in the bible. its gonna take me awhile to find it.
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Originally posted by Lavan
Just look for every one of my posts starting on page three of that thread (it really starts near the bottom of page 2) and read - even if you disagree wholeheartedly (which is fine), it will at least give you a greater insight into the science, and will definately clear up many of the misconceptions that people have about the modern synthesis and evolution - it\'s far too much for me to cut and paste here.
SonyFan and I had a really good dialogue there, and he comes up with a lot of counterpoints against evolution that I respond to in depth , so if you\'re interested it\'s a good read.
Wow! I just skimmed through most of it. I would love to talk to you about this in person. . . it\'s facinating!
To get off-topic for just one second:
"b)Vesitgal structures - eg. human appendix - useless for us, but is neccesary for orangutans."
I\'m so curious I could pop! What do the Oranguatans use the appendix for? What does it do for them?
Otherwise I don\'t have any more questions about your evolutionary knowledge. ;)
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Majin Prince - put down the NIV Bible or the Comic Book Bible published through the catholic church and come to your senses, dinosaurs are not in the bible!
Lavan - I never said I don\'t believe in evolution. Never. I just don\'t want to get into it because, like you have done, a great hole would be digged for me to get out of believing in both God and evolution. You have done a fine job of getting out of the whole, but I would rather not get my hands dirty since my feelings lie with religion way more than with Science, I argue that point. I do believe in limited evolution as in adaptation and strong to survive, but I, in no way, believe we developed from single cell organisms or horses or monkeys, etc. I just can\'t believe it.
How might evolution create the human eye? That is one question that makes me doubt evolution involving current living things.
My personal belief on dinosaurs go something like this:
God didn\'t have to create man in 6 days, as it has been said that 1 minute of our time equals thousands of years for God, why can\'t it be different? While God was creating the earth and the heavens he could\'ve made the dinosaurs and other creatures and then decided they weren\'t suitable to live among humans, like Himself, as they would harm the humans surely and do way more harm then good. So God killed them off. Of course I do not state this as fact, I do say that there are things about this world and universe that we will not understand until we die, and perhaps not even then. That is that which makes God God and us humans.
Eric Jacob
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May I ask Altered Beast, what is meant by your comment about catholics in your last post
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The catholic church is quick to accomadate new blood as long as it brings in more money.
The New International Version of the Bible is basically just dumbed up and reworded for simple idiots who dont know what Thee, Thine, and Thy are. Also, they have a picture bible that reads like a comic book fro kids, which also teaches kids exactly ZERO respect for Heavenly Father.
Believe it or not, there are churches out there that don\'t pay their ministers/priests/bishops/reverends/etc.!! Those churches weren\'t found on greed, but on faith. Take Martin Luther for example (no I am not Lutheran, I believe in a different church). He was sick and tired of how corrupt the Catholic church was and how it changed everything, so he nailed a little thing up against a church door. He didn\'t touch on half of the problems of the catholic church.
The Pope, a man supposedly called of God, has been excommunicated TWICE! Once because he was found out to be a woman (not allowed). You know the church people found out that the pope was a woman? she got pregnant (must be celibate). Doesn\'t sound like called of God to me.
It is common practice to tip the Priest at a family member\'s baptism $50 in my area. and church members find it odd when you don\'t! Don\'t you find it odd that the priest, doing the Lord\'s work, expects to get paid for it, not doing it merely as service?
I could go on and on, but I think I have offended enough in this topic.
Eric Jacob
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OOOOH!!!!!!
I love a good religious debate.
For starters, Im an Atheist.
For all you who believe in the bible.
Answer me this, If before he died, Hitler asked Jesus to save his soul, would he?
And on the other side of the coin,
Is Gandhi now burning in hell?
And if so, then how can god be a Diety that strives for goodness. If you answered yes to both questions, then God isnt striving for people to be good, Hes just trying to win a popularity contest.
Also, I agree that RELIGION not GOD, is one of the most deadly and dangerous forces on this planet. Look at the crusades, it might have been started by the Pope feeling threatened, but it was the INSTITUTION that is religion that gave him the weight to GUILT people into fighting for him.
The Pope didnt fight the muslims, people who believed the catholic religion did.
And if that example is too archaic for you then a modern one. The balkens. Ethnic albanians and serbians are fighting and killing each other every day because of RELIGION!
Every day Jews and Muslims are killing each other over RELIGION!
Not because they all do drugs or are gangsters.
You say believing in god gives YOU a sense of peace?
It gives THEM a reason to kill thier neighbor.
And the Bible?
Dont even start.
The bible is a book full of hate mongering.
Kill gays
Kill people who commit beastilaty(not that I condone that, its just that it states that.)
Men have the permission to beat thier wife if they dont do what they say.
The bible bleeds intolerance and thats it.
Also, about those scientists that were killed in the middle ages, they werent lynched by a mob or stoned, but taken by the CHURCH and put on trial for blasphemy against the "good" book, and when they were found guilty BY THE CHURCH, they were burned, kinda like what happened t jesus.Aint that funny.
Believe in god.
I have no problem with that, but keep your god out of MY life.
I cant stand when bible thumpers light into me with your going to hell ****.
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Just because I\'m catholic does that make me evil?
you make catholics out to be the root of everything that ever went wrong, just because one catholic man killed another man because of his religion doesnt mean the catholic religion condoned it, and there is a reason for the priest getting payed, if hes devoting his whole life to god there has to be a way for him to afford things, he needs food just like any other man, and there is no time to work a job
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Hitler would never have been saved because:
a) he was obviously mentally gone. Nobody kills 11 million people and doesn\'t have something wrong with him.
b) obviosuly wasn\'t a Christian. Nobody who believes in Christ will go around killing millions for their OWN glory.
c) Hitler wouldn\'t have asked for forgiveness, although Christ suffered for Hitler\'s sins too.
Gandhi will not burn in hell because hell as most people think (hot stuff) doesn\'t exist in my mind. Hell is more of a mental torture, as in "Why wasn\'t I faithful enough to live with Heavenly Father?" Gandhi will be taught in the afterlife the teachings of Christ and he can decide there if he chooses to accept them and live by them. After all it is called LIFE after death. Gandhi was never able to hear missionaries as far as I can tell and therefore will not be held accountable. With that, though, doesn\'t get a free ride. He must still accept it.
The above is basically new idea to most of you Christians. I wouldn\'t doubt that none of you have been taught in your church of progression after death. Or hell as being a torment of mental proportions and not physical. after all, what would be the point of testing our faith if we cannot hear what the word of God is. People born before Jesus came to Earth will also be given a chance to hear the Word of God.
Eric Jacob
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being in God\'s service should be just that, service.
You are not evil or dumb for being Catholic, just ignorant to a truer religion. That is not your fault, and I don\'t criticize you for being catholic. If I were you, I would investigate all the churches you know and pray on what is the right one after learning about all of them. That is the only way you can know what is true. The catholic church has harmed too many people and has set back scientific progress many hundreds of years with the Crusades, Inquisition, teaching sermon in Latin (so they could not understand what was being told to them).
Study, do not assume that the first thing you come to is right. I find it strange that the Catholic church receives converts at all because of this. Look into the church\'s past, you will see that this is not a church run by God, this is a church run by man.
Eric Jacob
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i believe in life...and i believ in living that life...i dont ask these questions as there is no answer...
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I just have one question for you Bossieman.. Ok.. just imagine that there is a god for one instant. This one (or multiple) being(s) created a system so complex and so vast that with all our knowlage and social advances.. can\'t even begin to comprehend just what all is involved in something as simple as a leaf blowing across the street. There\'s so many questions we don\'t have answers too.. and a hundredfold that we don\'t even know the questions to.
Ok.. now to say that you.. as small pitiful speck of dust hurtling through the cosmos has figured out his plan? You can honestly say with conviction that YOU know he turned his back on us.. or even that he doesn\'t exist at all because he won\'t come on down and shake you\'re f#cking hand?
Jesus said once to the priests of the Samheidron(sp?), according to my religeon, that god does not think as man thinks. God\'s way of thinking could be so totally off from our own, that religeon is just as far from learning his true message to us.. as science is from completely figuring out the universe. I mean, God is said to have sent his only son to spread his message... uncorrupted.. to us and what did we do? We crucify him. Nice.. real nice.
Now I can\'t tell you to believe or what to believe.. you have to search your soul and figure that one out for yourself. Conversion = Corruption IMO. You\'re supposed to follow a religeon because you love god, not because you want to avoid "hell".. or because someone told you to.
Also, if find a kind of quaintness in the arrogance of mankind. We discover some property of "reality" and are so quick to pat ourselves on the back and try to take possession that it\'s almost childish. "I discovered it.. it\'s mine! Humanity rules!" LoL.. we are so clueless. Like little Jhonny playin around with the powertools in his daddy\'s shed...
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"You are not evil or dumb for being Catholic, just ignorant to a truer religion. That is not your fault, and I don\'t criticize you for being catholic. If I were you, I would investigate all the churches you know and pray on what is the right one after learning about all of them." - AlteredBeast
LoL.. See this is part of what I\'m talking about right here. Not to pick on you Altered, but you just sent the guy on a wild goosechase. None of the reliegeons are right.. and none of them are wrong. We simply don\'t know because there\'s nothing to compair and contrast with aside from other religeons.
The problem is.. each religeon is fighting each other so hard to gain followship.. that it\'s like spinning our wheels. I say, just accept that people can be of different religeons and leave it at that. If they want to convert, then yeah.. I\'ll try to give them advice on what works for me.. but there\'s no pressure involved. I\'ll stay with my religeon because that\'s what I was born into, weither by my choice or gods.
Prehaps this whole "conversion" thing is just god\'s way of testing our tolerance, acceptance, and loyalty?
BTW: Don\'t just pick on Catholics man.. it\'s not like the Jews, Lutherans, or even the damn Quakers are perfect little angels either. I mean.. just look at what the puritans did to the Native americans! I won\'t even get into what non-christian religeons have done in the name of "god".
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Sonfan, you really don\'t like our race do you. First its us killing ourselves because of our ignorant arrogance And NOW THIS!!! You know, I really wonder if you regret being born a homosapien.
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:D
Not particularly Avvy.
Really, aside from Videogames and Peanut Butter (Real PB, not that cheap processed Jiffys crap).. what is there to like about mankind? And I wouldn\'t say working a service job has done anything to improve my disposition either.
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Ah... the quest for God...
Let me start with the concept of \'luck\'. There is no such thing. Think about it - what we call luck is just conincidences. If someone fired a gun at me and it hit something in my chest pocket and thus saving my life, then it isn\'t luck. It was a series of events that made the bullet hit right where it did. If the guy/girl had pointed just a little bit off I\'d probably be dead. That too, would just have been a coincidence. But people make up a concept which they call luck...
I think that can be compared to religion/God as well. And all you saying "MY god is the REAL god". Then what about those millions of other people, who believe in some completely different \'god\'? They think they\'re right, just as you think you\'re right. What makes them more wrong than you? Because they truely believe in their religion and they can really feel the presence of their God. But no, no... they must be mistaken right...? And the bible... it\'s the complete truth to many Christians - but what about the muslims who have their own book? They believe it\'s THE right book. And many others are the same way. They\'re just as \'right\' as you are.
Which leads me to my opinion... that religion was made up by people needing a purpose with life, an explanation for the things they cannot explain. It\'s so easy to just wave your hand and say "pfft, that\'s God\'s creation... he made the Earth, us etc.". I\'m not saying I have the answer for all questions, but I accept that. I don\'t feel the need to conveniently make up and believe in a human-made God that will save me and reunite me with my loved ones, just because I can\'t deal with the concept of death or whatever. To me God is as real as Batman. They were both made up and the only difference is that God is more common. But they\'re both nothing more than an illusion to me.
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Well said Sammy! Now there\'s a philosphical standpoint supporting the scientific inclination towards the non-existance of God. How ironic!!! Maybe SonFan can use a good dose of whatever you shot yourself with before posting that!
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I might be repeating myself sometimes but I think some points need to be stressed.
For anyone that says that the Bible tells people to kill. Provie it. Not once does the Bible say "kill ____." In fact, we are not supposed to judge, for it is not in our place.
The only way that someone cannot enter Heaven is if they denounce the existence of God, and truely believe it.
Often an argument comes about that other religions worship different gods. Are you telling me that this entity cannot take different form? For all those religions that are based on love for humanity, and follow the same basic rules, could very well be worshipping the same entity, just in a different way.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Often an argument comes about that other religions worship different gods. Are you telling me that this entity cannot take different form? For all those religions that are based on love for humanity, and follow the same basic rules, could very well be worshipping the same entity, just in a different way.
Nah, I don\'t buy that. It\'s just too damn easy to say that. It\'s the standard answer of religion: "But God is almighty and he can do whatever he wants... and we don\'t understand him... blah blah".
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I just went through with Conformation so I am sure I still want to stay Catholic
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Originally posted by Majin Prince
There are dinosaurs in the bible. its gonna take me awhile to find it.
What??? :D I don´t know exactly what are you talking about but your words are really funny. Please, if you find them, tell me the chapter, ok?
Not offence Majin ;)
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Atheism is just as much of a religion as Catholicism or Islam. How can an atheist walk up to someone and say get your religion out of my schools. I don\'t believe in them so don\'t force me to. Is that not the same thing? Atheist forcing their beliefs on the religious? Regardless of what anyone says the more religion is pushed away in society the worse our society becomes. How can someone not believe that there is something out there that we do not understand? It just baffles me. Science is pretty much clueless when it comes to things that are not flat out obvious. "Ahhh, this apple will not fall up so there is a force that makes everything fall down." "Hmmm, Every action that I make causes an equal and opposite reaction, intriguing." C\'mon now.
I challenge all atheists to explain where WE came from. If you say evolution, then tell me where did the first stage come from? What caused the Big Bang? These things do not just happen. Science is quick to explain things that they do not fully understand and will not understand until they come face to face with whatever higher power watches over us.
I could go on for days on this topic but the internet and web forums in particular are not a very fun place to do so. Debates are so much better in person or at least real-time.
Hey does anyone have AIM? Maybe we can have a nice chat debate on there.
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That was another one of my BIG questions about the Bible. It doesn\'t mention dinosaurs or prehistoric animals. I asked a lot of bible scholars about it and the main consensus that I got from a lot of them was that there were a lot of things OUTSIDE of the Garden of Eden and that there is no timeframe set up for the length of time they were in the garden before they were cast out.
I don\'t necessarily believe that. I\'m just trying to help out some of your debates. I have had a lot of different answers in my short quest for knowledge. If interested you could ask me a few.
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Hello again, whata groovy topic, 150 replies in under 24 hours!!
I have read the whole topic and find it very interesting.
There seems to be this question, what happened before big bang?
Time and space was created in the Big bang, the question what happened before is meaningless, because there was no "before".
I dont want to go into detail on this "before thing" because you need to know quantumphysics and general relativitytheory to understand it.
The thing is that science do eliminate the need for a God. We may need to belive in a God because we dont know things and that makes us belive.
You may want to belive that you are free to do whatever you want, that you have a free will.
If Hitler didnt start the WWII, I would not exist, why?
Because if WWII hadent started my mother would not have moved from Norway to Sweden were my father lived, and because of Hitler my mother and father made me, so I have to say that I exist because of hitler (amongst billions of other small events)
Everything that happens now is based on what happened the moment before. Meaning that our lives are just the result of what happened before, No one would have a PS2 if not a man at Sony came with the Idea of a gamingmaschine. his mother and father had a big fight before they jumped to bed and made him. this fight was a result of some other events a.s.o. I can go on until I reach a point were a Insect landed on a leaf. If the Insect haddent landed on the leaf noone here would have a PS2.
The interesting part is that everything I do is based on what have happened, meaning that I can´t control my life, I may think I can but other events do, I may think I have a free will, but I have not. A man that has just murdered his wife can´t help it because he was a result of billions of events.
I know that people don´t want to live beliving this, it would have made your life meaningless.
Imagine a meteor hitting the earth, many people would say that it was Gods "wraith" agains human sin.
God made the meteor hit earth, if we had lived a better life it would not have happened. WRONG the meteor would have hit the earth anyway because it has been on eath collision since it was created millions of years ago.
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Humans as a species are inquisitive, and want to find things out for themselves. A lot of people lose faith because of events in their life, they feel God let them down, or did not intervene on their behalf. They find science as a refreshing non ignorant teacher. IMO.
I\'m a catholic, although I don\'t practice my religion. I think the "Pope"+Bishops and catholic church is nutty. :nut:
I think women should be allowed to be priests.
I think it is ok for a woman to have an abortion.
I think it is ok to clone human beings.
I don\'t like the idea of a religious institution dictating morality towards the masses.
I don\'t like the word Atheist, it feels very ignorant.
I\'m not an atheist, I can\'t disprove God\'s existence, neither can I prove he exists. Therefore I take the easy way out. :D I have no problems with GOD. IMO I think there might be a God, as for how much he cares for us, if at all, I don\'t know. It is the same, as for us to care about a stupid ant on a sidewalk; In this case we are the ants.
I do have a problem with religion though,
Religion exists as an "Institution", which I do not care much for. Religion is a human endeavor, so that we all fit into our little niches(groups). Groups go to war with each other, it is like this: Religion vs. Religion
If we all just believed in GOD, and did not belong to a religious group at all, would we have had so many wars, crusades, etc... ?
The earth was created, Life evolved from primordial ooze, and here we are billions of years later...
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Can God create a rock so heavy that he cant lift it?
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Hmm, I see a lot of mention about the Big Bang,
Just because men can’t explain something does not mean it was
Created by God.
1000 years ago people believed earth was flat, anybody saying something else was in league with Satan. According to these man of “God” the earth is the center of the universe. Total Ignorance kills brain cells. :D All of us are ignorant at some point, unavoidable. Human Nature. I banged my toe on the table, God did this to me. Lol.
A lot of smart minds have wrestled with the “Big Bang” theory for a long time, I don’t think anybody came up with anything concrete. Nobody knows what caused it. All we have are theories.
Theories about the Big Bang hinge upon how the universe will end. Will it expand indefinitely, Is the universe curved, and will it begin to slow and fall back in on itself in the end? Is there dark-matter in the Universe, and if so is there enough of it?
I’m sure we will find out about the creation of “everything” at some point, maybe not in our lifetime, so what. I’m sure during the 16th century people thought that men will never fly, only birds can soar the heavens. This is the same thing, 400 years from now, people looking back on this time will see nothing more then civilized-wannabe-apes trying to explain the wonders of the Universe, failing, then blaming it all on an almighty deity because of lack of understanding. IMO.
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I think some of you are getting off on the wrong track here. Many of you are saying things that completely blow my mind. Some of you are saying that just believing in God and Jesus Christ as our Savior will get you into heaven.
sorry guys.
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James 2: 20 -
"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"
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To clear this up for all NIV and Comic Book Bible readers, this says you have to act on your beliefs, or your faith is as good as nothing.
Also, you guys speak of multiple true religions.
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Ephesians 6:23 -
"...even as Christ is the head of the church, the Savior of the body"
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If Jesus Christ isn\'t at the helm of your church, you may just be in the wrong place. When Christ was on the Earth in Jerusalem, he set up the church which would be the only church with complete truth. After he died. the original 12 apostles continued the church, each taking their turn as prophet, seer, and revalator. After they all died out, the church was lost and other churches, found on greed and intelligence took it place. These are not the right church to belong to. Please look around and study different books of other religions.
I don\'t remember where this quote is from, but it surely struck a chord with me, and after studying various religions greatly, I finally decided to do it.
"If any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of God, for whosoever believeth in him shall have everlasting life."
Because you were born into a certain faith or because you were born without faith in any particular religion should give you greater cause to search around for the true gospel.
Bossieman - I don\'t think you read through all the replies, because if you did, I think your reply would have been better educated, we are not answering your less thought out questions like "could God build a rock so big he couldn\'t lift it" That is just a horrible question. God is all-powerful and everlasting. But he would never lift it directly, instead lift it with great winds or something, but if the rock was that big, couldn\'t it damage the earth or the people on it? We will never know though, as we are not God, and we do not know his eternal plan for us.
Bozco - I am glad that have been confirmed a member of your church. I believe they do that at age 14, you are still young yet and would not know things about other churches. It is good that you are at least taking apart in your own religion though, as belonging to the religion and never doing anything about it is so much worse. Get the priests permission to go do it, I think you will see by his reply whether you are in the right church or not.
There is only one true religion everyone. People are Islamic and Jewish, etc. because they were born into it and they believe in it. That is part of their free agency, though. Another reason that they are part of those churches is because way more often than not, they have not yet heard and experienced the word of God. They have not felt the Holy Ghost.
Eric Jacob
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It\'s \'cause a butterfly flapped it\'s wings. (In reference to Bossieman\'s story.)
I\'ve posted my beliefs. I\'m not going to post it again in order to take up space. This thread had grown big really fast and many people\'s posts are repetitions of things said before. Please make sure you read the posts so that nothing has to be repeated.
I\'ve posted what I think about the big bang, and what I think about where souls travel in the afterlife.
In respose to Bossieman\'s question about the giant rock, you might as well ask why God made the sky blue and the grass green. I don\'t know.
1000 years ago not everyone thought the world was flat. New evidence shows that the Greeks and Romans were quite close to discovering a sphirical planet.
Altered -
I believe that faith is all that one needs to get into heaven. It is with this faith, and the conviction of the Holy Spirit, that has us want to do good. Acts of kindness do not get you into heaven. Faith does.
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Eric, you belive in a specific God, why do you do that? What made you a beliver of a God? I´m really interested, what is the deal here? Did you woke up one morning and belived in God or is it your parents that made you belive in God?
I don´t know what the big thing is about a God, there must be something but what?
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Toxical - people were not killed for thinking the world was round that far ago because nobody thought otherwise. Later people thought it was flat, and others thought is round. Christopher Colombus is a good example of someone who thought it was round, although misjudging its size completly.
Also hundreds of years ago, Leonardo da Vinci made many drawings of human nature, one of the concepts he came up wit was, gasp!, the helicopter. Many people thought flying was a possibility, nobody knew how, though.
Again with the Big Bang Theory. if the big bang theory was caused by \'dust\' what caused the dust? What caused the causing of the dust? so on and so on. There has to be a beginning somewhere to Science. In religion we have God to explain it for us. He is eternal, everlasting, and he created us and all things around us.
Another note on people that think aliens aren\'t real BECAUSE they are religious - Why would God have only made one intelligent species and stopped at that? Couldn\'t he make more species that are as intelligent or more intelligent than we are somewhere else, while changing things about their climate and things to have different outcomes? The universe is a vast place.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
In respose to Bossieman\'s question about the giant rock, you might as well ask why God made the sky blue and the grass green. I don\'t know.
Please, the sky is blue because the light from the sun is going throw the athmosphere and the result is blue.
the light and the atoms in the athmosphere creates the blue sky, not God.
The grass is green because there is klorofyl (swedish word) in the grass.
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Yes my parents taught me of God, but nobody made me believe but myself. I read the Bible and Book of Mormon and prayed on them to know they were true. The feeling I get, the warm fuzzy feeling I get told me what I was doing was right.
The Holy Ghost is quite the powerful thing if you ask me. I have diverted so many things I shouldn\'t have because of a prompting of the spirit. Without that prompting, I could be dead, or a drug addict, or whatever else.
Also, I have personally prayed on things when something happens and they have come true, stuff that shouldnt happen.
I am sorry if you never have a feeling that guides your life Bossieman, I don\'t know what I would do without it.
Eric Jacob
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It seems like Bossie is reading but not really reading all of the posts. Doesn\'t saying that there was nothing before the Big Bang go against science? Science says that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So something had to have caused the "big bang".
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Couldn\'t God have created chloryphyll and atoms though, Bossieman? remember to open your mind, maybe not believe, but listen to what others tell you.
We, christians, all know that light refraction causes blus sky and that the grass is green because of clhoryphyll, we are not stupid because we are religious, we just believe that god made these things. Every time you ask that same question with a different point to it, you will get the same response, that should\'ve been shown to you by now in the 7 page of this thread.
Eric Jacob
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Personally I think God doesn´t exist, we´re the result of the natural life progress.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
I am sorry if you never have a feeling that guides your life Bossieman, I don\'t know what I would do without it.
Science gives me that feeling. :)
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Trog - did you read that verse I stated from the Bible? it said faith without works is dead. I feel sorry for you if still think that just believing is your ticket into heaven. Good works won\'t get you into heaven. Worshiping God and following His commandments will.
Bossieman - good job answering my questions though. Does science tell you not to kill? No, science, by your measure tells you to kill to prove you are strongest and to show to the female sex that you are more powerful. Sorry, science gives you exactly 0 feeling. I think you have a little religion in you. You have just shut it out becuase of your love for Science.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Couldn\'t God have created chloryphyll and atoms though, Bossieman? remember to open your mind, maybe not believe, but listen to what others tell you.
We, christians, all know that light refraction causes blus sky and that the grass is green because of clhoryphyll, we are not stupid because we are religious, we just believe that god made these things. Every time you ask that same question with a different point to it, you will get the same response, that should\'ve been shown to you by now in the 7 page of this thread.
Eric Jacob
No God did not create chloryphyll and atoms.
In the early universe there was only one type of atoms, Hydrogen [H], When stars was created the [H] is turned into [He], this happens in the sun and all other stars.
when all the [H] has turned into [He] then stars starts to smash [He] toghether and create [Be] a.s.o
The atoms that we are created from are origin from exploading stars.
Today we can create new atoms, like Plutonium atoms, we just blow up a nuclear bomb. Did God create the Plutonium atom or did we?
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You silly people and your fantasies of a \'god\'... you morons are quite funny.
Jesus, the gay Jew, his mom, the lying slut, and the all powerful God.... and don\'t forget the red fellow who\'s the villain. It would make a good book, but little else... I can\'t believe anyones stupid enough to believe this crap...
*Waits for dissing from the delusional nuts*
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Do you really believe that we as humans have already found out all the elements of the universe? That Hydrogen is actually numero uno. that is sad and closeminded on your part. We as humans have only been as far as the moon, and that is nothing.
open your mind.
Eric Jacob
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krimson, saying something like that (direct attacks and intense vulgarity) is liable to get you banned. Don\'t attack and belittle people for what they belittle. State your opinion while listening to others.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Do you really believe that we as humans have already found out all the elements of the universe? That Hydrogen is actually numero uno. that is sad and closeminded on your part. We as humans have only been as far as the moon, and that is nothing.
open your mind.
Eric Jacob
We have found all the elements, yes, Hydrogen is actually numero uno, because it is just a proton and a electron, numero 2 is Helium a.s.o
If you know any physics you would not have said what you just did. H is numero one, nuff said.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Trog - did you read that verse I stated from the Bible? it said faith without works is dead. I feel sorry for you if still think that just believing is your ticket into heaven. Good works won\'t get you into heaven. Worshiping God and following His commandments will.
I might have mispoke. Worshipping and following commandments was a way for the Jews to get into Heaven because Jesus hadn\'t come yet (Old Testament). Once Jesus died for our sins, all we need to do is believe. We will still be judged in front of God at our death, with all of our sins laid out before him, but Jesus will say that I\'ve belived that he has died for my sins and clense me.
It would be a horrible thing to belive and not act Christanly, but it\'s not a necesity. James was trying to make this point in the vers you quoted.
It\'s important to undestand that in the Christian belief you can go through all the motions of service, but it\'s worth nothing if you don\'t truely believe.
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Altered, I\'m not dissing your beliefs or anything... but to be honest I must say I\'m quite ... shocked (no, it isn\'t the best word but I can\'t think of a better one right now) to hear how ... fanatic you sound. You really must be very religious. In the ears of a non-believer it\'s pretty radical stuff I must say. I don\'t mean any harm or disrepect, it\'s just so very different from what I\'m used to. :)
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Originally posted by Gohan
It seems like Bossie is reading but not really reading all of the posts. Doesn\'t saying that there was nothing was before the Big Bang go against science? Science says that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So something had to have caused the "big bang".
As I said earlier, you have to know quantumphysics and general relativitytheory to understand what I said.
You are talking about Newton physics that does not work here. Newton said that a apple falls to the ground because the earth attracts it, that is wrong! Einstein told the world what gravity is and why the apple is falling to the ground.
"Science says that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"
Thats Newton, not Einstein.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Also hundreds of years ago, Leonardo da Vinci made many drawings of human nature, one of the concepts he came up wit was, gasp!, the helicopter. Many people thought flying was a possibility, nobody knew how, though.
Eric -
Your point is valid, and also makes sense.
Some people don\'t believe in God creating everything, and are waiting for someone to prove them right. :D
It\'s cool you are religious and all, that is fine. :D You got your opinion, I got mine, that is fine also. :D
Great topic :D
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Originally posted by Toxical
Eric -
Your point is valid, and also makes sense. Therefore some of us believe God did not greate everything, the we think the Big Bang really happend, we just don\'t know how it happend yet :D
When you find that out I\'m willing to bet you\'d be quite religious yourself. But we should not argue about this \'cause it won\'t end for a very long time.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
When you find that out I\'m willing to bet you\'d be quite religious yourself. But we should not argue about this \'cause it won\'t end for a very long time.
My thought exactly, we should not argue, this is another case of people arguing over religion :D
what is next WW3? :D another war spawned because of religious debate. :D
If I find God’s hand in creation I can live with it, and I can live with a God even now, I have no problems with God. :D
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
When you find that out I\'m willing to bet you\'d be quite religious yourself. But we should not argue about this \'cause it won\'t end for a very long time.
Hmm, I would just say that it would be the final victory, but religious people always modify the bible when science prove things.
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so many replies, so little time.
Trogolodyte -
The Book of James was written AFTER Christ came to Earth. It also says \'faith without works is dead" notice how it said "dead" and not "ok". You need to act on your beliefs. Go to church, etc.
Samwise -
It is quite alright. You see what I have to go through to prove a point though. When I entered this argument, I just wanted to add some new opinions to the bunch. But some of the people starting to spout of stuff without reading my replies or anything. Then when they did, they didn\'t understand or wouldnt open their mind up. I am glad you have never heard anything this blunt being said to you, hopefully others feel the same and have their eyes opened a little further. You gotta be a little radical nowadays, especially if you are doing God\'s work. :)
Toxical -
God didn\'t have to create every little thing on the Earth. He just set the ball rolling with a few things here and there. He created man with the intuition and knowledge and ability to make them able to find and discover and create new things.
Bossieman - what if in the future we find elements so small that they are made of quarks and elctrons, or dark matter, or the things that make up quarks. Again, open your eyes to new discovery my friend. You are wrong, my church has never modified the bible. Refer to one specific sect when you make accusations. Stop refering to a part as a whole. Otherwise, by your posts I could think all "scientists" were close-minded.
Eric Jacob
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I have some people at my work that are very religious. The thing is when we talk about God they are almost angry on me because I don´t belive in God, I do not think there is place like hell or heaven, life is just electrical impulses between atoms.
I have found out that many people wants to belive, it makes there lifes easier. They dont need to think about problems because there is always a God to hide behind.
I have heard that In the USA Darwins evolution theory are forbidden in some states, is this true?
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no, that is not true. In fact, since we are a free nation. We let individual teachers in some states, like Kansas, decide what they want to teach. See, in America, we open our eyes to new ideas. We are taught evolutiary theory, but we can also be taught other things, we have the right to choose what we believe. We are not taught one thing.
man, how I love America!
Eric Jacob
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Hmm Mr. Jacob, I think you\'re making it sound better than it is... how is banning the evolution theory in schools being open minded? No no, they only want to hear their own religious theories. That I think is anything BUT free and openminded.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
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Bossieman - what if in the future we find elements so small that they are made of quarks and elctrons, or dark matter, or the things that make up quarks. Again, open your eyes to new discovery my friend. You are wrong, my church has never modified the bible. Refer to one specific sect when you make accusations. Stop refering to a part as a whole. Otherwise, by your posts I could think all "scientists" were close-minded.
Eric Jacob
When i meant elements I talked about Helium, oxygen a.s.o, not baryons or quarks or positrons.
What are your church? I know in some part of the bible, that part when the moon turns red and the world goes under. It does now symbolise politics (the red moon) for some people. There is some talk about how to read and understand the bible. I don´t know what you belive in but I see how it is possible to change the bible so it stays good agains science.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
no, that is not true. In fact, since we are a free nation. We let individual teachers in some states, like Kansas, decide what they want to teach. See, in America, we open our eyes to new ideas. We are taught evolutiary theory, but we can also be taught other things, we have the right to choose what we believe. We are not taught one thing.
man, how I love America!
Eric Jacob
Still you kill people that comitts crimes, deathpenalty is middleage. Its so primitive.
"we open our eyes to new ideas" - Right! Why dont you get ride of deathpenalty? UN and EU doesnt use deathpenaltiy.
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Samwise - you misunderstood. They don\'t ban evolution ANYWHERE. they just lt teachers teach a religious aspect along with evolution so kids don\'t grow up to be scientific zombies, therefore making the world a better place :)
bossieman - I think it is more symbolic, that part at least, than actually what will happen. I don\'t think it is symbolic of politics, I think that is hogwash, but rather of the evil that will encompass the people of the earth in the last days before Christ comes.
Also, if you haven\'t figured out by now, everyone, I am a Mormon. Many people, for some reason are afraid of my church and very hateful against it, but I believe those are the people who would start a war over religion, whereas I know of no mormons that would. We are a family oriented church and we follow the Bible, Book of Mormon, and now more importantly, the latter-day prophet.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Samwise - you misunderstood. They don\'t ban evolution ANYWHERE. they just lt teachers teach a religious aspect along with evolution so kids don\'t grow up to be scientific zombies, therefore making the world a better place :)
Ok, my bad then... I just seem to remember reading it was \'banned\' certain areas... I might remember wrong. I\'ll see if I can find a link. :)
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There are problems with every country Bossieman, yes even your own. The leaders of our country are of an older generation. When the next generation of Americans come to power, the deth penalty will be gone and prisons will become more crowded!
the death penalty being primitive is your opinion by the way.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
the death penalty being primitive is your opinion by the way.
Sorry of course it is, I just did not point that out.
What is mormon?
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no, you are wrong. I LIVE in America, don\'t you think I would know?
errrgghh, another point that shows you don\'t know how to open your mind. Listen to what people tell you Bossieman, especially if they have experience in it.
No state has banned evolution since teh 20\'s when the leaders of the country were all bible-thumpers who thoguht evolution was the devil. Trust me.
Eric Jacob
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No need to get defensive Altered, I did my research. And they didn\'t ban it as you said. They just taught alternative stuff as well (talking about Kansas in particular here). Even though a recent vote (in February I believe) changed the 1999 vote again. But as I said: "I might remember wrong" - and that I did.
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Mormon is kind of the slang term for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It was founded in the 1820\'s and is currently the world\'s fastest growing religion.
We are a non-contensious people meaning we are pacifists.
We have 11 million members currently and around 60,000 missionaries out there to get the word out.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
no, you are wrong. I LIVE in America, don\'t you think I would know?
errrgghh, another point that shows you don\'t know how to open your mind. Listen to what people tell you Bossieman, especially if they have experience in it.
No state has banned evolution since teh 20\'s when the leaders of the country were all bible-thumpers who thoguht evolution was the devil. Trust me.
Eric Jacob
alright then, sorry.
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my apologies. I just don\'t see why people can\'t take another\'s word as being true when that person has experience in it. I live in the state directly above Kansas, by the way :)
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
my apologies. I just don\'t see why people can\'t take another\'s word as being true when that person has experience in it. I live in the state directly above Kansas, by the way :)
Eric Jacob
No problem. I\'m just the type of guy who feels a certain dose of doing your own research can be healthy at times. I don\'t just swallow anything people say - and especially not if I seem to remember something about it (it being right or wrong). ;)
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Eric, back to the topic, are we animals? What are your thoughts about the creation of the world.
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Of course we\'re animals (IMO). We\'re just more intelligent than the usual mammal. And less furry. ;)
But besides that we\'re just animals like every other species on this Earth.
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Originally posted by Samwise
Of course we\'re animals (IMO). We\'re just more intelligent than the usual mammal. And less furry. ;)
But besides that we\'re just animals like every other species on this Earth.
It may be of course for you and me, but belive me when I say that more than 50% of the people at my works thinks this is wrong.
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I say we are animals in the physical sense, but not in the mental and spiritual sense.
I don\'t believe that animals of the world have concious thoguht, only what seems best at the time (protection, comfort, sleep)
Eric Jacob
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Why should it be wrong? What sets us apart from other animals? Just a larger brain.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
I don\'t believe that animals of the world have concious thoguht, only what seems best at the time (protection, comfort, sleep)
Have you seen elephants, monkeys and delphins? How they work together and even look at them self in the mirror just for fun.
I´m going to bed now, i continiue tomorrow. :)
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i am split on this issue,
i have questioned my religion numerous times, and even though i have been thinking about just what bossieman has said, and yet i still believe in a god.
i believe somthing had to have started this all, somthing had to have been there way back before the universe
theni also question life; is there an afterlife? or is it all just a way of keeping the masses in check?
i have a challenge for you, bossieman, if you believe there is not an afterlife, what would it be like ? nothingness? no memory of anything ever happening in your life.. its so hard to explain how it would be like, it would just be nothing.
now thats depressing aint it?
now religion has a future, a "life after death".
and that keeps peoples minds happy, whether it is true or not, you always know that there is a life after death and then you dont have to waste time thinking about it..
i believe in a god, but i also believe that religion is not the way that all things are. science proves some things, and is very interesting. i believe that many religions have truth to them, but i think that if you live a nice and good life, you will go to heaven no matter what religion you are.
i hope there is an afterlife, but people like bossieman dont think there is, so that must be really boring, believing that your whole life will be gone to waste, bio-degraded in a wooden box.with no hope for the future..
i perfer to believe in a god, what can it hurt? nothing, then, when you die, if ther is a god, you will know and if you believed in a god, you will be thankful. if there isnt a god, then there would be no afterlife, and everything would end for you. all the thoughts you ever had, your concious would be gone.
i have a couple quick things that you have to explain to me bossieman,
why is it that some saints and nuns have not bio-degraded at all, and still look like they are sleeping after 100+ years of sitting in a coffin.. its true, it is happening, now tell me why it is happening,
and also, what caused the "big Bang"? (if that was how the universe actually started)
ill be waiting.....for your awnser...
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The talk about concious and a spirit is a very tough subject. I was in an AI seminar and we spent over 5 hours arguing whether ants had souls. We cannot observe concous thought. We think we can through oberseving actions, but there is always someone who can point out why that action was not part of a concious thought.
I believe that we are animals, related to all other animals, created by the same maker. And that we have been given the gift of a soul. And before all of you start, I cannot prove that other animals don\'t have souls. This is what I believe base on what I have read.
And Altered, i\'m going to post-pone our argument over James for a little bit, til we\'ve sorted some other stuff out. I have a problem with interpreations and arguments over a single verse. I belive that not one verse should be discussed without first including the surrounding passages. Ex. the movie "End of Days" was primarily based on a single vers. When taken out of context, the movie makes sense, but if the writers would have included the very next vers, then they wouldn\'t have had a movie at all. But anyway we\'ll have to continue it later as I\'m afraid it is not exactly on topic.
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of course they do, but that is having fun, every mammal I know knows how to have fun, but do they question why they are here? Their brains are not complex to even know what the question would mean. Their own purpose in life is to pass on their seed. survive, nothing else.
Eric Jacob
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Bossieman, du har mitt stöd..
Jag håller med dig till 110%..
Short translation: I agree with Bossieman..
And I dont want to argue, cuz I cant make you change your opinion.. Nor can you :)
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
of course they do, but that is having fun, every mammal I know knows how to have fun, but do they question why they are here? Their brains are not complex to even know what the question would mean. Their own purpose in life is to pass on their seed. survive, nothing else.
Eric Jacob
I\'d have to go into describing the "Chinese room" to you. But to save time for now, the seminar decided that ants, and most animals are incapable of concious thought. It\'s hard for people to realize, what with dogs and other pets, but they don\'t have the concious comprehention of their actions. But only a complex form of input/output. (In other words: I somewhat agree with Altered here.)
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
krimson, saying something like that (direct attacks and intense vulgarity) is liable to get you banned. Don\'t attack and belittle people for what they belittle. State your opinion while listening to others.
Eric Jacob
Banned? I\'m not worried...
Don\'t belittle you for what you belittle? WTF are you talking about? I assume you mean \'what you belive\'. \'Believing\' is the same as not thinking, relying totally on faith, faith that a old book, written, and rewritten, by humans is true. Sorry, I always ridicule people for not using their brain, and you will not be any different... I did state my opinion; religious people are nuts.
Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Samwise - you misunderstood. They don\'t ban evolution ANYWHERE. they just lt teachers teach a religious aspect along with evolution so kids don\'t grow up to be scientific zombies, therefore making the world a better place :)
Eric Jacob
Yea, down south that\'s what happens. In the North, we know your education sucks and your all ignorant. New York has some of the highest education standards in the country, and don\'t teach creationism in public school. Coincidence?...
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Their are some religious people living not to far away from my house.. (Members of Jehovas witnesses or whatever)
They once wanted ME to join.. Gave me books with propaganda..
"You MUST join and go the the paradise when armageddon comes.. or you\'ll go to hell!"
They also said, "You musnt use soap, hair shampoo or play violent games..!" (stuff like that)
They are now walking regular routes in the area where I live.
So whenever I see them I hit the dirt ;)
Pretendning Im not home.. (aha)
My mom screams, "Oh no, its the jehovas!" and everyone flees upstairs or out into the garage.. ;) :D
Well most religious people arent to bad.. Just alittle narrow minded. (IMO)
The preist in our church (I never go there, but when I was in the 1-6th grade they made us go there..)
got very angry when a friend of mine said "God didnt create us, evolution did.!" something like that..
So the religious people I know are pretty narrow minded.. Never wantning to talk about other alternetives..
Afraid that they might be wrong?
Yes, perhaps.
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Did you ever walk into a room and then wonder why you just did?
i bet thats how dogs live their lives...
humans have the ability to ask, why? and go about finding out. what sets us apart from other speicies is our intelligence,
you cant prove that a god exists or dosent exist., you dont know what started the univese, or how the speck or matter came about.
you know what? mebbe it is all like MIB (men in Black), the universe is in a marble that ailiens play with, and then theyput them away in a bag of other universes.
there are so many things that could be the cause for the universe.
a new study just found out that the universe will keep expanding, and never go back , given gravity is infinite, but there are other effects going on, that push the universe away from itself.
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Originally posted by Falcon4
Did you ever walk into a room and then wonder why you just did?
i bet thats how dogs live their lives...
Everyones done that before.
And don\'t pretend to know how complex dogs thoughts are. If life can be like MIB, it could be like Cats & Dogs too... :D
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Well I guess by Krimson\'s definition I\'m an idiot. I refuse to believe that there is not some form of higher power. I have seen people healed of diseases and such just by having people lay their hands on them and pray. I have seen many other things that science just can\'t explain. Science can\'t explain 99% of the things in the universe. Everything is a theory because they can\'t prove it.
BTW, Altered check your PMs.
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Originally posted by Gohan
Well I guess by Krimson\'s definition I\'m an idiot. I refuse to believe that there is not some form of higher power. I have seen people healed of diseases and such just by having people lay their hands on them and pray. I have seen many other things that science just can\'t explain. Science can\'t explain 99% of the things in the universe. Everything is a theory because they can\'t prove it.
BTW, Altered check your PMs.
yeah i agree, there are nuns and priensts that have died along time ago, and yet their bodies are perfectly preserved. as you said, science cannot awnser everything, it only gives theroys and partial explanations for why things are happening..
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Originally posted by Krimson
Yea, down south that\'s what happens. In the North, we know your education sucks and your all ignorant. New York has some of the highest education standards in the country, and don\'t teach creationism in public school. Coincidence?...
Try separation of church and state. This was done in order to prevent wars based on religion. The teachings of Christianity say to follow one\'s government, so don\'t go there.
Narrowminded. It\'s easy to believe something is true, like when we die, it just ends. But the Narrow path of Christianity, the pains I go through when I know that I\'m going to Heaven and some of my best friends are doomed for damnation. It\'s not an easy path, no one ever said it was.
I can\'t explain how I can be so sure that I\'m going to Heaven. It\'s a feeling that I\'veknown for quite some time now. Being that I can\'t remeber the details of my first experiences with Christ, I\'m not going to be able to explain it to you. Human communication is severely limited. Speech, the most perfect form of communication we have, can not convey how I feel, and written word does an even worse job. :P
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Originally posted by Toxical
hmmm,
I love this topic. The metaphysical, the spiritual aspects of this...
First of all, IMO there is no God.
God was created by men to live in peace and to obey local laws. The bible is nothing more then a law textbook, pure fiction. (I\'m sure gonna get some angry people after me for this :D )
How can one believe in a God, with a fu@ked up world like we have? Sure you can say that men do **** to each other, and not God. If God is real, and he cares, he wouldn’t let half the sh!t happen on this planet.
All this is my opinion of course, and is not meant to persuade anyone from believing in God.
Not true, every religion inspires war. Religion is the number one killer of people :D
People said the same thing before they crucified Jesus. They said "If you are the Christ, save yourself and all of us." I\'m sure you\'v e heard this one before:
"For God so loved the world the he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoeer does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God\'s one and only son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
There was a little girl that was asked about Jesus, and she replied" Jesus is all that God wanted to say."
Now, I wouldn\'t be just blurting this all out...except you can\'t just follow the bible. WHen I gave myself to God, i felt an overwhe,ming warmth over my entire body. From then on, i could no longer look at people the same way. You get a sort of "new pair of eyes." Suddenly, things you continue to do that you never really thought of before just seem so....wrong. We are so very far from the animals. Troglodyte is right. The feeling you have just can\'t be explained in words.
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good point on that last on Trogolodyte. They aren\'t allowed by law to teach that an exact creator made the earth. but in some areas they can teach alterior creation theories (God, evolution, Jah, etc.) without going into too much detail.
Krimson, you are more closeminded then Bossieman and that is something that probably everyone in here can agree with. If you think Nebraska and Kansas are in the south you are a complete idiot. Central High School (my alma Matter) in Omaha is ranked in the Top 10 high schools in the nation. And it is in Nebraska.
fastson - I agree about Jehova\'s Witnesses. Their religion is based on Old Testament Writings that were nullified in the New Testament. They go the way of teaching about their church in the wrong way too.
EvicX - what version did you get that out of? I believe mine says "For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, for whosoever believeth in him shall have everlasting life." that is the first part from the King James version.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
EvicX - what version did you get that out of? I believe mine says "For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, for whosoever believeth in him shall have everlasting life." that is the first part from the King James version.
Eric Jacob
Um...it\'s in a student bible of mine. I now that what you just said is the King James Version. Mine tells me what it means in more of a modern way.
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
People said the same thing before they crucified Jesus. They said "If you are the Christ, save yourself and all of us." I\'m sure you\'v e heard this one before:
"For God so loved the world the he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoeer does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God\'s one and only son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
There was a little girl that was asked about Jesus, and she replied" Jesus is all that God wanted to say."
Now, I wouldn\'t be just blurting this all out...except you can\'t just follow the bible. WHen I gave myself to God, i felt an overwhe,ming warmth over my entire body. From then on, i could no longer look at people the same way. You get a sort of "new pair of eyes." Suddenly, things you continue to do that you never really thought of before just seem so....wrong. We are so very far from the animals. Troglodyte is right. The feeling you have just can\'t be explained in words.
that is so very well said.
people that believe in god have something to live for, to look forward to, it is so very hard to imagine life without an afterlive, if you dont think so, try to imagine your death, without anything after it. your conceious is gone, everything is gone.
you become a nicer person once you are at peace with yourself. you tend to look at things from a different perspective, and you learn to love life.
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for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills. I know every bird in the mountains, and the creatures of the field are mine. If I were hungry I would not tell you, for the world is mine, and all that is in it.
--Psalm 50:10-12
Where then does wisdom come from? Where does understanding dwell? It is hidden from the eyes of every living thing, concealed even from the birds of the air. Destruction and Death say, \'Only a rumor of it has reached our ears.\' God understands the way to it and he alone knows where it dwells, for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. When he established the force of the wind and measured out the waters, when he made a decree for the rain and a path for the thunderstorm, then he looked at wisdom and appraised it; he confirmed it and tested it. And he said to man, \'The fear of the Lord--that is wisdom, and to shun evil is understanding.\'
--Job 28:20-28
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Originally posted by Falcon4
that is so very well said.
people that believe in god have something to live for, to look forward to, it is so very hard to imagine life without an afterlive, if you dont think so, try to imagine your death, without anything after it. your conceious is gone, everything is gone.
you become a nicer person once you are at peace with yourself. you tend to look at things from a different perspective, and you learn to love life.
With the help of Jesus. And I\'m serious, I can\'t even begin to stop doing bad things without Him. I used to have the worst thoughts in my head, thoughts of rape, suicide, killing, and with His help, I am filled with joy and my mind becomes free. It\'s an amazing experience.
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
With the help of Jesus. And I\'m serious, I can\'t even begin to stop doing bad things without Him. I used to have the worst thoughts in my head, thoughts of rape, suicide, killing, and with His help, I am filled with joy and my mind becomes free. It\'s an amazing experience.
so you used to not believe in a god? well congrats!
knowing that there is a future for you really helps you set your mind straight.
were u an athiest before you became Catholic?
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Originally posted by Falcon4
so you used to not believe in a god? well congrats!
knowing that there is a future for you really helps you set your mind straight.
were u an athiest before you became Catholic?
Not Catholic...Christian. Catholicism has silly traditions that draw your mind from Christ. Like Holy water, painted galss, and giant crosses. I don\'t want to worship a cross or pretty colors. I was never a complete athiest, but I got pretty bad before I came to GOd. It hits you like a ton of bricks.
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Wow long thread...
I spammed, report me!
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Krimson, you are more closeminded then Bossieman and that is something that probably everyone in here can agree with. If you think Nebraska and Kansas are in the south you are a complete idiot. Central High School (my alma Matter) in Omaha is ranked in the Top 10 high schools in the nation. And it is in Nebraska.
Sorry, closedminded is believeing something you can\'t prove, and thinking your right.
Sorry, I should have said every state except NY and CA with the poor education system. I care less about your school, any religious person by there very nature is ignorant.
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Originally posted by Krimson
Sorry, closedminded is believeing something you can\'t prove, and thinking your right.
Sorry, I should have said every state except NY and CA with the poor education system. I care less about your school, any religious person by there very nature is ignorant.
I love you man. I hope you find the right path in life. Truth isn\'t ignorance.
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
I love you man. I hope you find the right path in life. Truth isn\'t ignorance.
Truth? From a old book, written in another language by a bunch of old white guys, and translated by a adulterous bastard king? Thanks, but no thanks. I love you too... in a platonic way, but that doesn\'t change my view of religion.
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Originally posted by Krimson
Truth? From a old book, written in another language by a bunch of old white guys, and translated by a adulterous bastard king? Thanks, but no thanks. I love you too... in a platonic way, but that doesn\'t change my view of religion.
I think your confused. But I only hope the best for you. You really are a cool guy. Everyone has a good side in them.
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NY and CA have some of the worst public schools in America, but I guess they are better since they only teach evolutionary teachings. Gimme a break. Just lok at the dropout rate, graduation rate, test scores, etc, and you will see that schools that do allow religion are probably MUCH more successful in teaching and have less interference from violence and lack of trying on the kids part.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
NY and CA have some of the worst public schools in America, but I guess they are better since they only teach evolutionary teachings. Gimme a break. Just lok at the dropout rate, graduation rate, test scores, etc, and you will see that schools that do allow religion are probably MUCH more successful in teaching and have less interference from violence and lack of trying on the kids part.
Eric Jacob
Errr, listen theres these things called standards. NY has some of the best standards. Its easy to have good grades in schools that have low standards (like most every school in the midwest and south). Lack of kids trying may be do to the tougher standards here, not like your backward, thumb up your ass state.
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Originally posted by Krimson
Truth? From a old book, written in another language by a bunch of old white guys, and translated by a adulterous bastard king? Thanks, but no thanks. I love you too... in a platonic way, but that doesn\'t change my view of religion.
If you look at the regions in which the people lived that wrote the bible, you\'d find out that they weren\'t white.
I live in Georgia. When I was in High school, I wasn\'t taught evolution, nor creation. The teachers supplied us with some information that had references to books we can look for any information.
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Originally posted by Lavan
[On a side Note]
I think I pretty much covered the theory of evolution in GREAT detail in a previous thread - http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10614&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
(pages 2 & 3 I belive. If anyone has any further questions feel free to pose them if the answers aren\'t already covered in the thread)
I\'m a staunch believer in the scientific method, but I still believe in God. I think it\'s very much possible to do both.
I was before going to comment about the few who said that Muslims are the \'only\' people who kill over religion, but Weltall pretty much said what I was going to say. I also agree with what he said about how the stories in the bible shouldn\'t be taken literally.
When God sent the rains down to take out everything on earth, did the fish drown?
You\'re right...that shouldn\'t be taken seriously...because if you knew all the words and what they meant, you\'d know that it didn\'t rain all over the world, but only in a certain area. The whole world would be rediculous. An the whole Moses thing where he took all the animals of the world, he only took animals from the certain area that was going to be flooded. Alot of things from the bible have been taken to an extreme by people who don\'t seek to understand it.
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
You\'re right...that shouldn\'t be taken seriously...because if you knew all the words and what they meant, you\'d know that it didn\'t rain all over the world, but only in a certain area. The whole world would be rediculous. An the whole Moses thing where he took all the animals of the world, he only took animals from the certain area that was going to be flooded. Alot of things from the bible have been taken to an extreme by people who don\'t seek to understand it.
I believe that God was planning the flood for a while and moved the animals to Moses probably before he even told Moses.
And what about Jupiter? It\'s atmosphere is like one big storm! And it doesn\'t have to rain over the entire world to flood it. My house flooded when a pipe bust in the bathroom. So, just because the water was coming from the bathroom, does that mean that the water never reaches my room? I think not!
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
I believe that God was planning the flood for a while and moved the animals to Moses probably before he even told Moses.
And what about Jupiter? It\'s atmosphere is like one big storm! And it doesn\'t have to rain over the entire world to flood it. My house flooded when a pipe bust in the bathroom. So, just because the water was coming from the bathroom, does that mean that the water never reaches my room? I think not!
Huh? Don\'t mean to sound rude, but I seriously didn\'y understand what you just said, the first part maybe, but it was kind of blur for the rest of it.
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
Huh? Don\'t mean to sound rude, but I seriously didn\'y understand what you just said, the first part maybe, but it was kind of blur for the rest of it.
I stand by my post, but aimed it a the wrong person, sorry! I was just giving an explanation that the entire world could be flooded without having the entire world covered in storm.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
I stand by my post, but aimed it a the wrong person, sorry! I was just giving an explanation that the entire world could be flooded without having the entire world covered in storm.
Oh...K..:)
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Sorry about my attitude, I was being a ass. I hope ya\'ll won\'t hold this (or that GT3 thread) against me. Sometimes I get rude and go too far. I\'m just of the \'realist\' school of thought on life. I don\'t hate people outside of NY, and the entire countries education system is lacking, including NY\'s. While I believe most about what I said concerning religion specifically, I don\'t hate people who happen to be religious (although I do question their sanity).
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Question my sanity Krimson, but i just found out a neat fact about religion.
the aztecs while building machu-pichu build 6 large oblesks(spelling?) or large stones that told of how the earth was made,in 6 days
on the 6th day, god rested.
we must remember that this concurs with the catholic belief that god made the earth in 6 days and also rested on the sixth day...
remember, the aztecs had no prior knowlege of the spainards when they built this city, they had no knowledge of the catholic religion,
so, the aztec and catholic religions both believe that god mad the earth in 6 days, and rested on the sixth,
coincidence? maybe, but this is quite interesting that 2 cultures from different sides of the world had the same belief that god created the earth in 6 days and rested on the 6th......
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I agree that its interesting, both cultures, with no proof, believed a similar thing. Then again, maybe the archeologists are putting their cultural beliefs on something they didn\'t understand.
Trust me religious people, nothing would be more comforting than there being a after life. But I see no evidence to foster this belief.
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"Trog - did you read that verse I stated from the Bible? it said faith without works is dead. I feel sorry for you if still think that just believing is your ticket into heaven. Good works won\'t get you into heaven. Worshiping God and following His commandments will. "
I have a question.
What the hell does it matter whether a person believes in god or not to goto heaven?
If they lead a good life and help others shouldnt they get into a place reserved for those who, get this, LEAD A GOOD LIFE?
It seems like the bible is just scaring people into doing things.
As for the bible telling you to kill people, it doesnt, BUT, it does say that people who do certain things should go to hell, and when people believe the bible too much they become elitists. Like most of the religious people I know.
And stop saying that because you believe in god it MAKES YOU A MORE MORAL PERSON THAN ME!!!
I cant STAND THAT!
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It is entirely possible that the Aztecs and some people in the Pacific Islands (who also belived in the 6day creation theorey, prior to any recorded contact with Christans or Jews) were influenced, or even spawned by immigrants from a region or culture where the belief was prevelent. Indeed, if this concept could travel from the Middle East all the way to Europe; it could easily travel to South America.
Perhaps this is yet another example of the small mindeness of the arguements made to edify and justify this thing they call God and his all powerful hand of creation.
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Originally posted by Faithdies
I have a question.
What the hell does it matter whether a person believes in god or not to goto heaven?
If they lead a good life and help others shouldnt they get into a place reserved for those who, get this, LEAD A GOOD LIFE?
It seems like the bible is just scaring people into doing things.
As for the bible telling you to kill people, it doesnt, BUT, it does say that people who do certain things should go to hell, and when people believe the bible too much they become elitists. Like most of the religious people I know.
You can walk the walk, but can you talk the talk? There is a big difference to just doing good, and then believing in God. The thing is, if you sin once you go to Hell. (IMB) But if you believed that Jesus died for those sins, and washed them away, then you can still be in Heaven.
The Bible does not say that people who do certain things will go to Hell. It says that theses certain things are sins, and if they aren\'t forgiven (by beliveing that Jesus died for those sins), the yes, they will go to Hell.
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*sigh* never has the blatant reign of bathos been more apparent... anyhooo...
By virtue of my extensive knowledge and schooling in the Christian religion, I am inclined to agree with Torgo. The philosophy and reasoning behind the condition of beleif is something to the effect of "You can\'t get to Heaven by yourself, Jesus is the only way. Good deeds comes after you are saved."
Of course, my personal opinoin would clasify that as complete and utter FUBAR. Save God\'s non existance, its message is akin to the foundations of communist endoctrination or an eaqually extreme faction from the right side of the political spectrum.
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Originally posted by ajoh432
10 pages.... is this a new record here?..... Anyway... I\'m really mixed up now and don\'t know what to believe....
I suggest you do your own research, ask of your friends and family, and decide what is best for you. Each person is different, with their own needs, which can be filled by many differnt ways (obviously, just look at this thread)!
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10 pages.... is this a new record here?..... Anyway... I\'m really mixed up now and don\'t know what to believe....
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Follow the ways of the enlightened and use Science as your guide through life. It might be depressing at times, but its the truth.
Anyhooooo.. 10 pages isn\'t a record here, my Kick thread, which didn\'t survive the first server change went for over 20 pages. :-) Most of it was spam of course, but a good portion of it were memmorable posts.
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ajoh432,
I suggest you do your own research, ask of your friends and family, and decide what is best for you. Each person is different, with their own needs, which can be filled by many differnt ways (obviously, just look at this thread)!
I don\'t undestand how this happened, but in my reply to the last message my previous message (which for me was on the other page) was re-written with my new post! Why does this happen?
Anyway, my post to ajoh432 is quoted above. And here is what my overwritten post said:
"Save God\'s non existance, its message is akin to the foundations of communist endoctrination or an eaqually extreme faction from the right side of the political spectrum." - Avatarr
Actually, communism would work in a Utopia. But humans, overwroght by greed, self preservation, and selfish desires, could never create this Utopia. Well, it works for Star Trek. (Now I think I\'m embarrassed by that last sentence!)
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next to the "PS2 countdown" thread this is the biggest one ever.
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I don\'t really want to get into what\'s been said over all the past 10 pages. This is something I\'m much better at debateing in person when I don\'t have to wait 10+ hours and wade past 20 different POV\'s before continuing my train of though.
I do notice one prevailing problem with the "scientists" replies though. Many of the atheists here are saying that we\'re using god as a cover for what we don\'t understand.. and that the true answer will eventually be revealed by science in time. Yet isn\'t a basic scientific fundimental, or at least common sence, that "Absence of proof is not proof of absence"? Just because you cannot see god "pulling the levers" that make the universe run it\'s course dosen\'t mean he isn\'t there doing it. A cave man sees lightning strike and attributes it to god, a scientist sees lightning strike and attributes it to a buildup of electrons in the atmosphere, god sees lightning strike and knows that his machine is working perfectly. Or perhaps there is such a thing as fate in that God already knows what is going to happen. He set the machine up, like a computer running a program, and is sitting back and watching as it works. From what my religeon teaches, god rested on the seventh day. Perhaps this IS the seventh day. Science says that light, the universe, the earth, and life was all created over the course of trillions of years... but the bible says it was done in 6 days. So what is a day to god? What meaning does time have to one who supposedly created time? Perhaps it\'s just a metephor because the people who recieved god\'s word we\'re ready to for whole truth.. they knew nothing of life before them and arrogantly assumed that they we\'re god\'s only chosen people. To tell them how it really went down would be pointless. They just wouldn\'t understand at least, and more likely they would simply kill the prophet on the spot. The Romans crusified Christ for something as simple as claiming he was the king of the jews, and had more power than Cesear.. even though Jesus was talking about a totally different kingdom altogether.
Also, I have a question for the scientists here. Many of you claim that the bible is too full of contridictions to be taken seriously. I agree, but so is Science. The theory of the big bang for instance, states that at one time the entire cosmos.. everything in existance.. was compressed to a size smaller than an atom. Huh? How do you explain that? Yeah there are Quarks and subatomic particals, but how can a whole atom.. let alone an infinate amount of them by human comprehension.. be compressed to a size smaller than one? You can\'t. You have to take it on faith... just like the Scientists of the 18th century had to take the very existance of atoms on faith. So why is your faith more vaid than ours? And considering that most scientists now believe that the universe in fact will NOT begin shrinking.. but instead petter out into a mass of subatomic particles and dark matter that will float listly farther and farther away for all eternity.. there\'s still the question of what came before the big bang.
Also Samwise.. the belief that the deitys of multiple religeons are in fact the same god is not invalid IMO. Just look at miracles for instance. Every religeon has they\'re collection of miracles, totally unexplainable by science, attributed to their god. However the theme is also strangely similar. Look at the case of bleeding statues. In St. Luke\'s Episcopalian Church near Philidelphia, a 28 inch plaster model of Christ has often been witnessed bleeding from the wounds on his hands, feet, and head like a Stigmaic. While in the Mahadeva Temple in India, a 1 foot iron statue of Shiva has been witnessed to appreantly menstrate on it\'s ceremonial cloth at irregular invervals on seven different holy days. Both statues we\'re examined by scientists and no explination can be found. Those are just two examples of a rare, but not unheard of phenomenon happening to two religeon icons made out of radically different matereal.
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Originally posted by ViVi
next to the "PS2 countdown" thread this is the biggest one ever.
It\'s a big thing to be talking about. I though hat Christians were the stupidest people on earth. And then something happened to me. I believed. I asked for forgivess and said I knew that Jesus died for my sins. And much more things. Bu after this happened, everything in my life changed. My heart felt warmth like I couldn\'t explain. I saw everything differently and felt bad for all who didn\'t believe. It\'s not a joke. I cried the night I called Jesus to come into my heart and I was a very bad person until then. Maybe you should give it a try...
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the kick/ban thread and the PS2 countdown thread was full of spam, while this thread has only a couple spam posts.
The thing about machu pichu very much agrees with the Book of Mormon, about how a group of people came to the Americas as Lehi, the father of the family, received revelation that Jerusalem would be destroyed. read the book, if you are interested in Machu Pichu, you will definetly love it, plus give you a new perspective on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Eric Jacob
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SonyFan, you bring up some very good points, but will unfortunately fall on deaf ears amongst Bossieman and Krimson, etc. Many posts before this have covered the points in different words, but they shrug them off.
They question us, but we cannot question them and still have any intelligence.
I do not agree with some of the points, but on the broad spectrum, your post is much truer than so many before it.
Eric Jacob
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Every living thing that moved on the earth perished--birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark. The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.
--Genesis 7:21-24
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
--Acts 2:37-38
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
It\'s a big thing to be talking about. I though hat Christians were the stupidest people on earth. And then something happened to me. I believed. I asked for forgivess and said I knew that Jesus died for my sins. And much more things. Bu after this happened, everything in my life changed. My heart felt warmth like I couldn\'t explain. I saw everything differently and felt bad for all who didn\'t believe. It\'s not a joke. I cried the night I called Jesus to come into my heart and I was a very bad person until then. Maybe you should give it a try...
Yay. :D.
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The entire Mormon religion is based off a single sentence spoken by Jesus Christ that was misinterpreted and went to the extreme...
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hey now! Let\'s not go into junk like that. I haven\'t said anything about any of the religions besides Catholicism in terms of Christianity, if you want to discuss it with me, discuss it in PM\'s.
Alot of anti-mormon literature and things are said and given out amongst other churches for reasons beyond my imagination. We never pass out anti-anything or say anything against other churches. When we teach people of the Gospel, we don\'t tell them that their church is not true. We only say we have more truth to add to the truth they already have.
PM me with anything you wanna know.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
hey now! Let\'s not go into junk like that. I haven\'t said anything about any of the religions besides Catholicism in terms of Christianity, if you want to discuss it with me, discuss it in PM\'s.
Alot of anti-mormon literature and things are said and given out amongst other churches for reasons beyond my imagination. We never pass out anti-anything or say anything against other churches. When we teach people of the Gospel, we don\'t tell them that their church is not true. We only say we have more truth to add to the truth they already have.
PM me with anything you wanna know.
Eric Jacob
They believe we came from the planet Kolob in the center of the galaxy...where a big black hole is. An they get their own planet when they die and rule over other people when they are a god on their planet. I\'m sorry...maybe I should PM you about this...I\'m sorry if I offended you or something.
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SonyFan brings up a good point. The existance of stigmata and all of the religious icons throughout the world that do things science can not explain should be enough to at least spark an interest in most atheists. People have wounds that just open up in the same places that we believe christ to have been attached to cross at and then the wounds close and heal like nothing ever happened. This is freaky and has been documented by scientists many times. Solid stone statues that cry and bleed with no provocation. How can these things not cause at least a little belief that there is some form of god?
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hahaha, hey, don\'t worry about it, I get alot of misunderstanding about this kind of thing alot. Not alot is known by non-mormons as the religion is still pretty new.
Here is a link for anyone who wants to know a response to that question.
http://www.shields-research.org/Kolob.htm
this link is not supported by the church, as the church does not rebut claims made against them. but here is a good response by members of the LDS church that have set up a webiste where they refute some of the anit-LDS, or anti-understanding sites and literature, be sure to read the responses at the top of the page.
Eric Jacob
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Anyone in here methodists?
I am. I think I got a pretty claming religion. I went to my friends baptist church, but they always yell about how we are worthless and talk negative. NO offense to Baptists! I also went to a Cathlic one, but they are so into it they dont let you do what God wants you to do, have fun in life and love.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
SonyFan, you bring up some very good points, but will unfortunately fall on deaf ears amongst Bossieman and Krimson, etc.
deaf ears? I am very openminded but not when it comes to religon.
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Let him who hath understanding count Bossieman\'s # of posts :D
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Originally posted by EmperorRob
Let him who hath understanding count Bossieman\'s # of posts :D
hahahahahahahahah....
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
*wipes tear from eye*
in case his posts go up, his post number was 666
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Originally posted by ViVi
hahahahahahahahah....
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
*wipes tear from eye*
in case his posts go up, his post number was 666
LOL I´m satan!!!
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hrmmm.. was this conisidence? or god\'s way of telling us that Boise is evil..... hrmmmm.....
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Lol, very freaky indeed. ;)
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"deaf ears? I am very openminded but not when it comes to religon." - Bossieman
Then you\'re not openminded at all while in the context of this thread. Altered is right, although his genearalization was too broad. What get\'s me is that you\'re supposed to be a scientist right? Shouldn\'t a scientist\'s job be to diligently seek out the truth? How can you possibly find the truth, if you aren\'t at least open to the possiblity that there might actually be a god? Not to say you have to believe.. but you have to agree that it is a possibility.. no matter how remote in your opinion.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Anyone in here methodists?
I am. I think I got a pretty claming religion. I went to my friends baptist church, but they always yell about how we are worthless and talk negative. NO offense to Baptists! I also went to a Cathlic one, but they are so into it they dont let you do what God wants you to do, have fun in life and love.
I belonged to a Methodist church for about 12 years. my only problem with the Methodist method is the empasis on good works through monetary contributions. I\'m presently a Babptist. Can\'t say I\'ve had the same experiance as you have. Now that I\'m incollege I visit a lot of churches and can say that each and every church is different. And that the denominational differences are mainly seen in the operations of the offices of the church, not the worshipping end. (My mom works at a Methodist church.)
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Wow, what a freakin\' debate.
I\'m an animal, with a bigger, sophisticated brain. When we die, we rot in the ground. Sometimes conditions are right so we are preserved well, we become mummified. I have no recollection before I was born, why? Cause i wasn\'t anywhere. I did not exist. If i have a soul, where did it come from? God dumped it into my body when i was born? :D Soul = Consciousness.
Do all my seeds have a soul when they are introduced into a woman’s body?
I watched "The Prophecy" yesterday, it was a good sci-fi flick. :D
IMO.
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I am an Athieist/Satanist and IMO there is no god, no devil, no supreme being or any of that other crap. I believe that any human at any time has the power to change the world.
I also believe that all beings have a field of energy that, once developed, can be manipulated, this energy is called chi. (and no I do not watch to much Dragonball Z!) There is no other way to explain the martial arts masters who can strike someone and obliterate their heart without cracking the ribcage.
I will end this post with a lyric from the Bad Religion song \'F*ck Armageddon...This Is Hell".
"In the end the good will go to heaven up above.
The bad shall perish in the depths of hell.
How could hell be any worse?
Life alone\'s a f*cking curse.
F*ck armageddon this Is hell!"
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Originally posted by Toxical
Do all my seeds have a soul when they are introduced into a woman’s body?
I\'ve never thought of that before. I think that a soul is created at the instant the "seed" and the egg converge and the division of cells start. (So no, not all seeds have souls, that would be a big waste, wouldn\'t it?)And I think that from that point on the cells make up a material represention of that soul, and that if that physical makeup dies before birth, that the soul goes to Heaven, for in it\'s innocence it has not had the chance to deny God\'s existence. I apply this same thought to people born with down-syndrome, or other disorders of the like.
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Originally posted by Lord of Darkness
I am an Athieist/Satanist and IMO there is no god, no devil, no supreme being or any of that other crap. I believe that any human at any time has the power to change the world.
how can u put athieist and satanist together like that in a sentence i am an athieist and proud of it but to have u associate the two like that makes me sick athieism has nothing to do with satanism other than they both dislike christianity
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Originally posted by jaropkls
how can u put athieist and satanist together like that in a sentence i am an athieist and proud of it but to have u associate the two like that makes me sick athieism has nothing to do with satanism other than they both dislike christianity
Actually satanism and atheism can be quite closely related. I\'m not talking about the media stereotype satanism, but the REAL satanism where you as an individual is in focus. You should research it more, it\'s actually not so bad as people/media thinks it is (as in, they talk about those screwed up people that sacrifies animals etc. - those are not the lamers I\'m talking about).
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Originally posted by Samwise
Actually satanism and atheism can be quite closely related. I\'m not talking about the media stereotype satanism, but the REAL satanism where you as an individual is in focus. You should research it more, it\'s actually not so bad as people/media thinks it is (as in, they talk about those screwed up people that sacrifies animals etc. - those are not the lamers I\'m talking about).
Word. I live by true Satanism.
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When you are born, your spirit and conciousness and intelligence goes through a veil of unremembrance. That is the reason you remember nothing before you were born.
What kind of test would it be if you already KNEW their was a God and you KNEW what it was like to live with Him. You would make sure that you KNEW the right church before you were born and you would do your best to follow that one. But, because of the Veil, you must decide with your own free will to search out and have FAITH in God and Christ.
On a Side Note:
My Aunt Priscilla had a massive stroke a few years ago. After, she went into a coma for around 3 weeks. While she was in the coma she saw my cousin going through the veil. What she didn\'t know was that my cousin was involved in a car wreck when she was in a coma and died.
She awoke and told my father this and he told her what happened, later that wekk, she died.
Now tell me how science can explain that.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
My Aunt Priscilla had a massive stroke a few years ago. After, she went into a coma for around 3 weeks. While she was in the coma she saw my cousin going through the veil. What she didn\'t know was that my cousin was involved in a car wreck when she was in a coma and died.
She awoke and told my father this and he told her what happened, later that wekk, she died.
Now tell me how science can explain that.
Eric Jacob
Science can explain it, what about statistics, luck or just a lie?
Sometimes I woke up in the middle of the night, and i know the time is 3.14, when I lock at the clock it is 3.14.
It does not make me belive God exists.
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Originally posted by SonyFan
Many of you claim that the bible is too full of contridictions to be taken seriously. I agree, but so is Science. The theory of the big bang for instance, states that at one time the entire cosmos.. everything in existance.. was compressed to a size smaller than an atom. Huh? How do you explain that. there\'s still the question of what came before the big bang.
E=mc^2 is a perfect explaination for the first question.
The other one: I have said this before,
Time and space was created in the big Bang, the question what happened before is meaningless because time did not exist.
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Thjs is strange, it seems like some snwers just dissapears, I know i have posted answers and now they are gone, strange. There is also a strange order sometimes?!?
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God is supposedly on the outside of time. Time is a dimension...the 4th dimension. Time would have to of been created. Why would time...something that can be changed, have nothing to do with a creator. Einstein had a theory on wormholes that messed with time. Einstein also didn\'t want to know the details of God\'s creations, but what He was thinking when he did. Einstien also said that science withou religion is stupid, and you have a pic of him under your name. He is apparently more open-minded than you, but I apologize if I\'m bashing on you.
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Off-Topic for a second.
I Love this forum, i have been to many forums before, and if you were to post a topic like this there, a huge flame war would erupt soon, and it would deteriorate to name calling and other BS. :D This is cool.
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Originally posted by Toxical
Off-Topic for a second.
I Love this forum, i have been to many forums before, and if you were to post a topic like this there, a huge flame war would erupt soon, and it would deteriorate to name calling and other BS. :D This is cool.
Flame wars aren\'t cool...they never are. I think this is the first huge thread with decent conversation.
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Bossieman, open your mind!!!!
ahhhhh!!
How can you explain something that miraculous and sad at the same time as coincidence or a lie. Open your mind, if you see that experience as nothing special than I don\'t see you EVER learning anything new that has to do with anything spiritual or mind-enlightening.
Eric Jacob
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I\'m curious to hear what people think are "contradictions" in the Bible.
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Originally posted by EmperorRob
I\'m curious to hear what people think are "contradictions" in the Bible.
I´m curious what god thought about your donkey-rapers idea ... ;)
I think you`ll rot in hell - man, god condemned all humanity to live on earth simply because a woman ate an apple ! :D
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Originally posted by Bossieman
I´m sorry if I make some people angry with this topic but I have to make my opinion clear about religon.
Over 80% of the people living on this planet belives in a God. I don´t. I´m a scientist.
There is hundreds of religons on this planets beliving in differet Gods. I respects that, but i dont like religon!! Why?
Because religon is the dominating force that causes war.
Almost every war in this world is caused because of religon.
You can try to say that this is not true, but it is.
Did you know that some scientists got killed because they said thet the earth was round? Many scientists have been killed because of religon.
The reason why God exists is easy in the eyes of a scientists.
When we lived in caves, we didnt know much about the world. We saw thing we could not explain, like lightining hit the earth, earthquake and stuff like that, we did not know why those phenomena happened. We started to belive that there was a God that make that happened, when the lightening hit the ground, it was a God! Because we coluld not explain it.
Religon was born.
Some of my friens at work tells me that we are not animals, we are not realeated to monkeys.
That is very funny. People belives that we are different from other lifeforms on this planet.
What are we? Are we like animals or are we "above "animals? What do you think ? Are we animals?
I do agree on your points on the subject. However it\'s not that religion who made the wars, its the ignorance of religious people. It seems like you are ignorant about religion, so I recommend you educate your self about the subject.
In answer to your question if we are animals or not. We are human beings therefore it should tell you that we are superior. Since you believe in science, I would like you to explain how come we are the only species with a brain (intelligence) walking the earth.
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could this be the biggest posts topics yet ????????
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Originally posted by Jerky_Joe
In answer to your question if we are animals or not. We are human beings therefore it should tell you that we are superior. Since you believe in science, I would like you to explain how come we are the only species with a brain (intelligence) walking the earth.
I\'d be careful of your word choice Mr. Joe. Humans are not the "only species with a brain (intelligence)." And just because we are humans doesn\'t automatically mean that we are superior.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
I\'d be careful of your word choice Mr. Joe. Humans are not the "only species with a brain (intelligence)." And just because we are humans doesn\'t automatically mean that we are superior.
We are superior...we just do the stupidest things. Like for instance, we\'re the only living things that will go near the weed plant, and so on and so forth. I\'m sure that\'s not what God had planned us to use our brains for...killing ourselves.
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I got a question and would like it to be answered.... Who wrote the Bible? I mean did some person just tell stories to people and they believed him? Or did they really happen?.... I mean, after Adam and Eve were gone..... how did we learn about them?... Did God just tell somebody everything in his sleep? Okay so maybe I have 5 questions for you all... but I just would like to know......
P.S. I don\'t go to church often.
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The Bible was written by a large collection of people, spanning over a long amount of time. Some books are stories revealed to them by God, some are eye-witness accounts, some are letters written to a particular group of people.
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Originally posted by ajoh432
I got a question and would like it to be answered.... Who wrote the Bible? I mean did some person just tell stories to people and they believed him? Or did they really happen?.... I mean, after Adam and Eve were gone..... how did we learn about them?... Did God just tell somebody everything in his sleep? Okay so maybe I have 5 questions for you all... but I just would like to know......
P.S. I don\'t go to church often.
Some books, especially in the New Testament (The Bible is divided into the Old Testament and the New Testament, where the latter deals with Jesus\' life and the events after his resurrection), you can tell by the first paragraph who wrote them as they are letters from someone. For example:
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw--that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
--Revelation 1:1-2
And also the book Titus is written as a letter from Paul to Titus.
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Originally posted by macabre
I´m curious what god thought about your donkey-rapers idea ... ;)
I think you`ll rot in hell - man, god condemned all humanity to live on earth simply because a woman ate an apple ! :D
You know there is a talking donkey in the Bible? :D Numbers 22:21
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Originally posted by EmperorRob
You know there is a talking donkey in the Bible? :D Numbers 22:21
Huh?? What is the subject matter we are referring to here??
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Bossieman, open your mind!!!!
ahhhhh!!
How can you explain something that miraculous and sad at the same time as coincidence or a lie. Open your mind, if you see that experience as nothing special than I don\'t see you EVER learning anything new that has to do with anything spiritual or mind-enlightening.
Eric Jacob
For me that is not miraculous,that word does not exist for me. I try to open my mind, but I have to have some kind of facts to support my thoughts. remember you are a mormon, I am not. For me your belive is just as right as muslims or jehovas or some African religon. I can belive that all those 1000s of religons are correct. How do you know that your religon is right?
I belive in science because it makes things clear for me. I dont find God as a good answer to why we are here or how universe began.
How do you decide what religon is true. Do you just follow your hearth and make that your choise. Have never doubt that your God is the right?
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I am not talking about MY religion at this point anymore. I am talking about miracles and spiritual experiences. They happen in many and most churches, yet, there isno chance that Science can, nor ever will explain them. You are only seeing what you want to see Bossieman.
You cannot go into an argument with the intention of proving you are right without listening to the other side. That, my friend, is not an argument, but merely you stating your opinion over and over, which it seems all that has happened with you over the course of some 12 odd pages. Some scientist.
Eric Jacob
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i have another question
Adam and Eve were the first people here right - well then how did all the other races come about - not saying what race they were since we don\'t know but also how did we all come about - through incest or something - sorry i never got into the old testemet so enlighten me please
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Adam and Eve had tons of kids. Adam lived for some 900-odd years and had many children throughout his life.
Yes, they had to have interbred for quite sometime.
Kane (sp?) killed Abel and God cursed Kane with dark skin and cast him out of the group.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
We are superior...we just do the stupidest things. Like for instance, we\'re the only living things that will go near the weed plant, and so on and so forth. I\'m sure that\'s not what God had planned us to use our brains for...killing ourselves.
Hemp was grown in earlier times as a food for animals before it was banned. Not only for food, but also (They used to make paper and stuff).
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Adam and Eve had tons of kids. Adam lived for some 900-odd years and had many children throughout his life.
Yes, they had to have interbred for quite sometime.
Kane (sp?) killed Abel and God cursed Kane with dark skin and cast him out of the group.
Eric Jacob
hmm i remeber him being outcast but i remeber nothing about a cursed skin - and so who had sex with the outcast - shame shame shame
also that just makes no sense to me sorry - that means no matter what everyone is related to everyone and i don\'t see that being possible
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Some of the religious people here said that their religion is their guide for life, and gives a sense to their lifes. I can understad that and I admit that I have problems sometimes when I think about death etc as an atheist.
Some people just can`t emagine that all could be over and life is for nothing. But then I think:When I`m dead and stopped to exist, how can I even realize when I stopped to exist ? It only matters now, it`s the fear of missing something when I`m gone.
I must say it`s a good thing that there are religious people all over the world who help people who need help , just out of their religious motivation. Christians first were killed for their religion - then they grew big, became selfish and started killing by themselfes in the middle ages - now they concentrate on helping people , and that`s ok imo.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
I am not talking about MY religion at this point anymore. I am talking about miracles and spiritual experiences. They happen in many and most churches, yet, there isno chance that Science can, nor ever will explain them. You are only seeing what you want to see Bossieman.
You cannot go into an argument with the intention of proving you are right without listening to the other side. That, my friend, is not an argument, but merely you stating your opinion over and over, which it seems all that has happened with you over the course of some 12 odd pages. Some scientist.
Eric Jacob
Ok, lets talk about miracles and spiritual experiences.
You tell me that I only want to see what i want. Doesnt´that count for you too? My intension is not to proving I am right, I know i cant do that. Belief is so strong amongs humans that it is meaningless.
Can you give some examples of miracles? Something that is documented and can not be explained by science, something you belive never will be explained by science.
can you do that?
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Don\'t get me wrong, when I say that I am Satanist I mean I just take a few ideas from the religion, I don\'t believe in the whole thing. I take things like the fierce individualism and the idea that instead of believing in a god believe in yourself. I also abide by their first teaching, if you f*ck up, just stand there and take it like a man.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
Can you give some examples of miracles? Something that is documented and can not be explained by science, something you belive never will be explained by science.
can you do that?
STIGMATA
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The traces of language can be taken back to a singal source. King Nimrod wanted to reach the heavens himself, so he started building a tower. God saw his futil attempt and changed the workers languages. ZThey\'d strat to argue, not understanding each other, stopped uilding the tower, and moigrated into different sections of the world. Different exposion to the sun created the different pigments for protection.
And how is it weird that we are all related, in that we all started from two people? How else would we grow in number?
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Kane (sp?) killed Abel and God cursed Kane with dark skin and cast him out of the group.
That must be a mormon thing because I have NEVER heard anything like that. Are you saying that dark skin is a curse? Thats what it seems like.
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Originally posted by Gohan
That must be a mormon thing because I have NEVER heard anything like that. Are you saying that dark skin is a curse? Thats what it seems like.
I never heard it before either, but it could be true.
God punnished Cain, and Cain complained that because of his sin anyone who would find him would kill him , so God said:
" \' Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer seven times over.\' Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him." - Genesis 4:15
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its propably no subject in matters rellated to the existence of God where there is more conffusion than what has popularly been called the big bang. Much of the problem has come from not understanding what the theory propposes. Historically, the first suggestion that would propose the idea came in 1916 from Albert Einstein\'s field equation of general relativity predicting an expanding universe. In 1916, the accepted philosophical position was that the cosmos had always existed, and Einstein\'s proposal clearly dictated that there was a beginning, so his theory was altered to conform to the accepted position. That position also contradicted the Bible which delighted atheists. In 1925, Abbe Georges Le Maitre, an astrophysicist and Jesuit priest promoted a hot big bang creation event. In the late 1930s, Edwin Hubble gathered spectra data that supported the fact that the cosmos was expanding. Since that time, more and more data has been gathered to add to the hot big bang event concept. In later years, Arno Penziar and Robert Wilson measured temperatures that fitted the picture and were awarded a Nobel Prize. Most recently evidence has shown that the cosmos is not only expanding, but in fact is accelerating in its expansion.
All of this is in strong support of the Bible\'s assertion that there was a beginning. In cosmology, the view is that the big bang involved the creation of time and the creation of space (space/time) which again agrees with the notion that the creation was not just a rearrangement of energy/mass but a process that had a cause. The biblical concept of what God is fits this cause very well.
What is especially interesting in this discussion is that the literal meaning of words in the Hebrew and Greek strongly support the expanding universe concept. It is this relationship of the big bang and the Bible that we would like to explore in this article.
God\'s Predating the Universe
The first point that needs to be made about this subject is that the Bible clearly points to God existing before the universe existed. This is not just the obvious point of Genesis 1:1, but is also stated in Proverbs 8:22-31, Colossians 1, John 17:24, Ephesians 1:4, 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2, and 1 Peter 1:20. The biblical concept of God is that He is a being outside of time and space and is the cause of the existence we have. Acts 17:28 clearly states it as ".in Him we live and move and have our being." It is also important to note the name of God chosen in Genesis 1 is Elohim. There are many names used in Hebrew for God, each indicative of the properties of God being discussed. Jaweh is used when one is talking about the promises of God. Adonai is used when the ruling aspect of God is the subject. When the power and creative nature of God are involved, the word is Elohim, and that is used exclusively in Genesis 1. In modern English, we might refer to our mate as our wife or husband, our old woman or old man, our lover, our battle ax. All of those convey different conceptions of the person we are married to.
The Creative Process
The word used in Genesis 1:1 to describe the creation is the Hebrew word bara. This word is never used in reference to something a human can do. Seven times in the Old Testament, it is used in reference to the creation (Genesis 1:1; 2:3-4; Psalm 148:5; Isaiah 40:26; 42:5; and 45:15). Hebrews 11:3 states that the cosmos we can see is made out of things which we cannot see. Numerous passages indicate that God is the sole source of the cosmos, further supporting God as the creator. (see Isaiah 45:5-22; John 1:3; and Colossians 1:15-17).
The Expansion of the Cosmos
The word shamayim is used in the Bible to refer to the astronomical universe. The word itself is connected with the phrase stretched out eleven times in the Old Testament (Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22; 42:5; 44:24; 45:12; 48:13; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12; 51:15; Zachariah 12:1). The concept here is that the cosmos is not static but the verb natah is used in an active participle form indicating that the process is ongoing.
You do not have to be a Hebrew scholar to understand the concept (I certainly would make no claim of personal credibility at all). Just take a concordance and look up the words and see what the common usage is. In Young\'s Analytical Concordance, for example, shamayim is referred to as heaved up things because of its connection to the stretching or expanding concept.
It is important to understand that the concept of the big bang and the expansion of the cosmos makes no statement of it being something that is a product of blind chance. If a person takes that position, it is a religious assumption. The evidence that design is mandatory for a life-bearing planet to exist from the hot big bang model has been discussed many times in this journal.
The fact that the universe had a beginning that involved the creation of space/time and that the expansion of the cosmos is ongoing is supported both by the scientific evidence and by biblical claims. The Bible continues to hold an amazing record of accuracy and knowledge far beyond its day. We argue that the big bang is just one more of a massive number of examples that show it is the word of God.
Much of the material for this article is from an article by Dr. John Rea, specialist in Old Testament languages and archaeology, and Dr. Hugh Ross in Facts for Faith, Quarter 3, 2000, pages 26-32.
I found this article pretty interesting, I havent read the bible, but this article just gives me a feeling that religious people make the bible fit perfectly with every new scientific theory.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
I found this article pretty interesting, I havent read the bible, but this article just gives me a feeling that religious people make the bible fit perfectly with every new scientific theory.
That might be true.. I also think so sometimes.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
I found this article pretty interesting, I havent read the bible, but this article just gives me a feeling that religious people make the bible fit perfectly with every new scientific theory.
We don\'t have to make it fit, it does fit. The problem is that the Bible was written so that the people of the time in which it was written would understand. That leaves some ambiguity when making translations into the modern word, but the Bible is quite specific. While non-professional horroscopes tend to be more broad so that many actions can fit into it\'d desciptions, the Bible limits it\'s scope, preventing most ambiguous relations.
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Troglodyte is referring to the Tower of Babel, Genesis 11.
Bossieman said:
I dont find God as a good answer to why we are here or how universe began.
How do you decide what religon is true. Do you just follow your hearth and make that your choise. Have never doubt that your God is the right?
If you do not doubt what you believe, you will never question its integrity. I started reading the Bible a long time ago and I never stopped. The principles that Jesus teaches are truth and I\'ve found this after years of doing it the wrong way. I\'m in no way perfect, but now I understand what I should be.
It seems you\'re wanting physical proof God exists. You want to see the blueprints of the universe. You never will, and no one will. No one will ever find the proof that humanity searches for of the existence of God. God does not want people who believe just because they see him. He wants people who love him b/c he loves us.
As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the body is formed in a mother\'s womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things.
--Ecclesiastes 11:10
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We also have the theodice problem, stated by David Hume: If the evil in the world is intended by God he is not good. If it violates his intentions he is not almighty. God can\'t be both almighty and good. There are many objections to this, but none that holds since God is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. Besides, if only God can create he must have created evil. If somebody else (the devil) created evil, how can one know that God, and not Satan created the universe?
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Originally posted by Bossieman
We also have the theodice problem, stated by David Hume: If the evil in the world is intended by God he is not good. If it violates his intentions he is not almighty. God can\'t be both almighty and good. There are many objections to this, but none that holds since God is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. Besides, if only God can create he must have created evil. If somebody else (the devil) created evil, how can one know that God, and not Satan created the universe?
I\'ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don\'t know how Satan came to be. He was an angel, given free will, and decided to changes his ways and try to take God\'s place. God could have easily done a multitude of things to Satan to make him stop. But for reasons beyond my understanding, he chose to send Satan away from Heaven.
Have you every seen Que (sp?) on Star Trek, the Next Generation? He is an immortal being that manipulates things to satisfy his curiosity. Maybe God allowed sin to take place just to see what it would do. Maybe he allowed it to prove to Satan that his way is better than the plans that Satan had. \'Cause in the end sin will be abolished.
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I´m going to read this article now, I´ll be back.
http://humanists.net/rpfa/god.html
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I wouldn\'t necessarily say that the cain thing is just from my church, as I don\'t really know the Mormon perspective on it. It could be just a thing that has been translated by some of the members of my ward. I am not saying that dark skin is a curse, either. I am just saying that it seems like God gave Cain a mark that intended to punish him and set himself off from the group. Which happened, since he lived away from Adam and Eve\'s family.
Also, the King James version of the bible, the oldest English translated version, and used by most Christian churches on the planet, does not contain many references to God as having different names in those verses you stated. Maybe not at all. Which version was that out of and why would it be different than the King James version? From what I have heard, the only reason we have the NIV and Comic Book Bible\'s are because they are made simpler for people to read. Wouldn\'t adding new names for God and the Creation make it more difficult?
The thing that some people aren\'t getting is that the Bible wasn\'t written entirely with God\'s influence and under His revelation. The writer\'s of the Bible had opinions and downfalls just like we do today. They may have added or taken out things that they saw fit, relating to the ancient time they were written.
EmperorRob brings up a good point in his last post. If we KNEW that we had a creator, there would be no test in us believing, we would know. And while the verse he puts forth isn\'t in the KJV of the Bible, I still agree with it 100%.
the theodice problem set forth isn\'t well thought out at all.
We were all alive and intelligent up in our pre-existence. In that time, there were two plans set forth for man to be saved and return to live to live with God. The first one to present a plan was Jesus Christ. He would die for our sins and have all the glory given unto the Father. Satan got up and said he would give no free-agency to the people. The glory would also go to Satan for saving us. If we would not have free-agency, we would have to follow.
God chose the first plan and there was a war. 2/3rds sided with Christ and Heavenly Father on his plan. 1/3 with Satan. the 1/3rd being jealous, greedy, and lazy, were cast out into Outer Darkness. In other words, away from our Heavenly Father. Never would they be able to gain a body, never would they be able to return to live with Him.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Adam and Eve had tons of kids. Adam lived for some 900-odd years and had many children throughout his life.
Yes, they had to have interbred for quite sometime.
Kane (sp?) killed Abel and God cursed Kane with dark skin and cast him out of the group.
Eric Jacob
I know that\'s a Mormon belief because they believe that black people are evil. Yeah...uh-huh...God\'s going to curse you with dark skin. It doesn\'t say that anywhere in the bible.
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The King James version may not be the best version of the Bible. After extended research of the ancient languages, scholars found that there are many names used to refer to God. Many of the translations in the King James version are now thought to me mislead, because of mistranslations (i.e. some words don\'t have a literal English translation, the King James just took what translation they thought best at the time). Mind you I don\'t think that any version is perfect. That is why I have a copy of NIV, King James, and the Living translations in order to compare/contrast verses when I study. Each translation is equally flawed.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Adam and Eve had tons of kids. Adam lived for some 900-odd years and had many children throughout his life.
Yes, they had to have interbred for quite sometime.
Kane (sp?) killed Abel and God cursed Kane with dark skin and cast him out of the group.
Eric Jacob
I know that\'s a Mormon belief because they believe that black people are evil. Yeah...uh-huh...God\'s going to curse you with dark skin. It doesn\'t say that anywhere in the bible.
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we have around 4 black families in MY ward alone. They make up around 1/6 of the ward. The men who are old enough out of those hold the priesthood and have the others have all been baptised after age 8.
Do not tell me that we believe black\'s are evil. I just take \'giving a mark to Cain\' as setting him different, or of darker skin. That is NOT a church translation, like I said, moreover, just the way I take it.
man, I already said that!
Eric Jacob
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Also, I didn\'t say God cursed black people, I said God cursed Cane with dark skin.
As we do not work on original sin in my church, it is not the descendants of Cain\'s fault that he killed Abel, everyone starts off fresh, not born with sin.
Eric Jacob
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So if he\'s black...or "different" he should have been cast out? That doesn\'t make any sense. I\'m sorry...I\'ll stop...
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yes, please stop.
He was cast out beause he killed Abel. God didn\'t want the free will of Cain getting the best of him (killing another brother or sister of his) or the family\'s free will (killing Cain because he killed Abel).
God cast out Abel from the midst of Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
God cast out Abel from the midst of Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve.
Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden though. And no translation that I have looked at says that his skin changed color, just that he had a mark of some kind.
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It was required that Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden, otherwise, there would be no good and evil, and more importantly, there would be no us.
remember - that is just the way I portrayed the mark in my youth.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
It was required that Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden, otherwise, there would be no good and evil, and more importantly, there would be no us.
remember - that is just the way I portrayed the mark in my youth.
Eric Jacob
Okay then...enough about Adam and Eve. Also...I think people are tired of this thread now. I don\'t know...I think this is possibly the longest thread that I\'ve ever seen.
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uh is this thread ever gonna end....gosh
:)
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Well, if people are gonna start spamming[/i][/u]!
I\'ve said about all I can think of now. There\'s a lot to look over, and that article that Bossemans\' post links too does a well job of summing up both sides. As long as each side agrees to respect each others decisions.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Well, if people are gonna start spamming[/i][/u]!
I\'ve said about all I can think of now. There\'s a lot to look over, and that article that Bossemans\' post links too does a well job of summing up both sides. As long as each side agrees to respect each others decisions.
Basically...I don\'t know what to think of either. Everyone has their own opinions and beliefs. This thread may very well be coming to an end. 33 pages right now...sheesh...
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Originally posted by Adan
What??? :D I don´t know exactly what are you talking about but your words are really funny. Please, if you find them, tell me the chapter, ok?
Not offence Majin ;)
There are dinosaurs in the bible...well figure out for yourself. It\'s in JOB 40:15-24!!! some people say those animals mentioned in there are hippos...but what hippopotamus u know have tails strong enough to knock down trees? well even at that there is JOB 41:1-2!!!
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Through translation, that "tail" you speak of might actually have been the trunk. There is no word that distinguishes tail/trunk, and tail is considered an incorrect translation by modern scholars. My Bible study guide states that it is probably an Elephant. Which would make a lot of sence. Seeing how so many religions hold the Elephant as a holy animal.
Maybe...but elephants don\'t seem all that great to me...;)
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Originally posted by Majin Prince
There are dinosaurs in the bible...well figure out for yourself. It\'s in JOB 40:15-24!!! some people say those animals mentioned in there are hippos...but what hippopotamus u know have tails strong enough to knock down trees? well even at that there is JOB 41:1-2!!!
Through translation, that "tail" you speak of might actually have been the trunk. There is no word that distinguishes tail/trunk, and tail is considered an incorrect translation by modern scholars. My Bible study guide states that it is probably an Elephant. Which would make a lot of sence. Seeing how so many religions hold the Elephant as a holy animal.
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I hate when there\'s a glitch and my post which I replied to yours ends up being before yours...
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yeah my bible study guide says it could be a elephant too but it makes sense to be a dinosaur too.
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Originally posted by Majin Prince
yeah my bible study guide says it could be a elephant too but it makes sense to be a dinosaur too.
How \'bout a Woolly Mammoth? Then we both win! Yeah!
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
How \'bout a Woolly Mammoth? Then we both win! Yeah!
Wooly Mammoth\'s only died out like 15,000 years ago...
Sabretooth tigers, too...
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
How \'bout a Woolly Mammoth? Then we both win! Yeah!
lol, yeah either way!!!:D
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Don\'t forget about the powerful loins
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Originally posted by EmperorRob
Don\'t forget about the powerful loins
Are you suggesting that Elephants don\'t have loins?
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This section was written just mroe than 2000 years ago.
There was no mammoth and no dinosaur. Logic tells me that it is an elephant or hippo.
Eric Jacob
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I have search the internet and I found out that this is one big topic all over the Internet.
I have religious friends that says to me that the bible should be read in a philosofic way, other says you should read it a see it as it is written.
I know i can´t prove or make anyone here change there minds about God or evolution, but I once did with a friend at work :)
He belived that we were not any kind of animal, there is Humans and there is animals. I asked him why he thought so, but he could not give a good reason, he had always thought so and saw human as animals as a grotesc thing.
We had several discussions about the human-animal thing, One day a showed him a book with pictures of non-born babys and non-born pigs and birds, the thing is you cant see any differences between a pig and a human this early in there life. He did not belive what he saw first, I said to him that humans can have a pigs kiddnie and soon propably a pigs hearth, how would that be possible if we are not relaeted to pigs?
he changed his mind and know he belives we are animals.
I´m 26 years and he is17 years old.
How old is the earth in the bible?
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They never say how old the Earth is in the Bible.
But they estimate from the time Adam and Eve were cast out to now is around 7000 years.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
They never say how old the Earth is in the Bible.
But they estimate from the time Adam and Eve were cast out to now is around 7000 years.
Eric Jacob
7000 years? That does not seems to be much. Is this number suposed to be taken seriously?
We have found bones from animals that is far older than that.
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well theres no way im gonna read allllll the posts.... so let me just replie to the first one!
god is real , who the hell could make up the damn bible?
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ok i stopped reading at about the 6 page, but A.we are animals, evolution has been taking place for millions of years, it is theorized that first life form evolved from an amebia, it is said homosapian evolved from a monkey or even a dolphin. Dolphins skeletal structure is very much alike to a humans.
All of society is based on "survival of the fittess" this goes as far back as with dinosaurs and as far back as with cromagnums and the neathanderthal(dont mind my spelling) As of today it is still survival of fittess, every nation in world is spying on each other, building weapons of mass destruction. I hope god didnt intend this to happen, if he did he wouldn\'t be a god i would praise, and if he has some type of plan he would have intervened a long time ago. The Bible and religion in generally is just a false sense of secruity for people around tthe world, God is something people use to rationalize their situation they have created. In no way shape or form is there a God(s), if there was why would he take the lives of beautiful people, why would he take a beautiful person and deface, and make it suffer, and then to just die, a miserable death, if you people say there is a god, god has done absolutely nothing for me.
I for 1 are against all oraganized religion.As for religion starting wars, that in a sense is true, not all wars but a good enuff amount, someone said the holy wars wasnt about religion, actually the crusades were wars started by religion. They were wars for the holy Land(not sure if that was what it was called).
i had some good stuff to write but i forgot it cause this thread was sooooooooo long, when i think of more ill be back
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Originally posted by Bossieman
7000 years? That does not seems to be much. Is this number suposed to be taken seriously?
We have found bones from animals that is far older than that.
That\'s getting into a really big debate that I don\'t know enough about to participate in. The biggest argument about "Bible time" stems from how long each "day" was in the story of creation. When they say that one man lived 900 years, was it really 900 years? Some people sya yes, and one day is one day, some people say no, that one day was multiple days. Just as the science circle argues about the age of the Earth, so does the religious circle. Sometimes those circles overlap, and that\'s where we come up with the most accepted figures.
That\'s about all the knowledge I can squeeze from my brain on this topic. . . I think.
And Average Joe[/u], I know you\'re new and all, but all of your comments have already been made and the religious equivalent has been given. Please read the rest of the thread for answers. I\'d appreciate it if you would read my reasonings to as why God "let\'s people die and suffer."
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i stopped reading just getting my thoughts across
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what does being new have anything to do with it???
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troglodyte enlightened on why "God" lets people die and suffer
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Originally posted by Average Joe
i stopped reading just getting my thoughts across
Obviously prematurely.
Here\'s a tip: As you are reading, type your responces in WordPad or something. Edit your post as you go accordingly, then when you finish reading it all, post what you have.
Originally posted by Average Joe
what does being new have anything to do with it???
Being new to the forum and not knowing how "business" is usually conducted around here.
Originally posted by Average Joe
troglodyte enlightened on why "God" lets people die and suffer
Yes I did, or am I confused by your grammar?
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can i ask you question?
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sry enlighten me on why "god" lets people suffer and die
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Originally posted by Average Joe
sry enlighten me on why "god" lets people suffer and die
I told you to go back and read my posts. I\'m not going to unnecessarily repeat myself. Please be considerate of everyone\'s thoughts here and read the posts.
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im sensing some nastiness
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Originally posted by Average Joe
im sensing some nastiness
If you are going to be closed minded enough to not care about others opinons, then I suggest you stop here and now. I have read every word in this post and have given everyone the respect they deserve. I have to go to class now so I won\'t be posting for another hour or so.
I suggest you respect the opinions of everyone else at this forum and read what we have posted. If we had to repeat everything we\'ve already said, this thread would be unnecesarrily long and we would not have the time or energy to move forward with our debating.
Pardon my slight rudeness, buit if you\'re not going to respect our opinions then I don\'t think that you need to be posting. Your opinion has been read and noted. All I wish is that you would take heed of my rebuttal to see where I am coming from.
________________________
I\'ve learned a lot of information on both sides of this subject. (Although sometimes it seems there are more than two sides to this coin!)
________________________
You have an opportunity here to learn, I suggest you take it.
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I have a really hard time to try to understand the religious people here. I find it sometimes hopeless to try to make my point. I talked to a religious friend today. I asked him about the bible and how the bible should be read. When i asked him about dinosaurios in the bible he said, no way there is no dinos in the bible.
It seems like people read the bible the way they want. my friend said that the bible should be read word by word.
Science is not like this, we are more openminded. When someone comes with a new theory some people says it wrong and some follow the theory. Later the theory becomes a fact and the scientists all over the world changes there minds and follow the new thery. religious people don´t seem to do this, they stay still, they never change their minds.
No one have answered my question about What makes your religion and God right amongst the thousands of religions and Gods?
How old is the Earth?
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Did anyone here read "Calculating God" by Robert J. Sawyer? Or any other noteworthy books that cover God, and Humans in general?
How about this theory:
God is the creator, but not in a biblical sense; God is a scientist.
Could this please both the believers and non-believers?
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Originally posted by Bossieman
I have a really hard time to try to understand the religious people here. I find it sometimes hopeless to try to make my point. I talked to a religious friend today. I asked him about the bible and how the bible should be read. When i asked him about dinosaurios in the bible he said, no way there is no dinos in the bible.
It seems like people read the bible the way they want. my friend said that the bible should be read word by word.
Science is not like this, we are more openminded. When someone comes with a new theory some people says it wrong and some follow the theory. Later the theory becomes a fact and the scientists all over the world changes there minds and follow the new thery. religious people don´t seem to do this, they stay still, they never change their minds.
No one have answered my question about What makes your religion and God right amongst the thousands of religions and Gods?
How old is the Earth?
You must have skipped over a couple of my posts! :D
I\'m more of an open-minded religious person myself. And in answer to your question about which god is the right god:
Before I stated that most religions worship the same entity, but see that entity in a different form(s). There is no humanly-comprehendable "true" form of this entity. I think Altered Beast argued against my point, but nevertheless, it\'s an answer to your question.
About the age of the Earth, I already stated that I can\'t give you a number. There is a "science circle" and a "religious circle" on this particular debate. Neither circle has a concrete number to give, but a couple "ball-park" figures. There is a pooint in which these two circles overlap, which gives us the most agreed upon numbers. It depends upon a literal/non-literal translation of the Bible. Was the world really created in 7 days? Or did a day last 1000 years? I guess I won\'t find out until I get the chance to ask God in person. ;)
Many religious people are closed-minded about everything. But then again, so are a lot of scientists! ;) ;) No one easily gives up or "bends" their beliefs. It\'s a "Fact of Live." (Now I have that song stuck in my head!)
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Bossieman, you ask how I can believe that the God I worship is the true God, or more of the same, the religion I participate is the true religion?
I have gone to several of the temples that my church has across the world and the feeling I get when I go inside of them is an encompassing feeling of warmth and love. WHen I go inside of another church\'s site of worship, I feel nothing, just like going into a regular house. And other times, it just frightens me when I go inside of a church and see a huge crucified Jesus on the cross with blood running down and all the cuts and stuff. IMO, a depiction does not and should not be that detailed. It is meant to frighten people into believing in Jesus and not teach them that He died on the cross for US.
Nobody knows how old the world is. People whould be fools to say that the world has only been around 7000 years. Adam and Eve OUT OF the Garden of Eden has been that long. But how long were they in the Garden of Eden? Did God create other animals while Adam and Eve were in the Garden, then kill them off to prepare for them leaving? Has Earth been used before?
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
They never say how old the Earth is in the Bible.
But they estimate from the time Adam and Eve were cast out to now is around 7000 years.
Eric Jacob
Oh give me a break, man, I can\'t believe some people still believe this. If you look at the original language, and get the full meaning out of it...it talks about the earth being created during the time the earth was still molten lava. It goes back describing how everything happened. I can post a big thing on it if you want...
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Go here...if you want:
http://www.swordandspirit.com/texts/TXTbeginning.html
Talks about the Bible beginning and scientific beginning...side by side...
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
Go here...if you want:
http://www.swordandspirit.com/texts/TXTbeginning.html
Talks about the Bible beginning and scientific beginning...side by side...
Yet again someone has put into words what I\'ve been trying to say all along. Thanks.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Yet again someone has put into words what I\'ve been trying to say all along. Thanks.
Just thought it was fairly interesting...;)
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AverageJoe, you wanted to know why people "suffer and die"--
If you want to know why humans are what we are, then read what God says to Adam in Genesis 3
"By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return". This was their punishment for disobeying God\'s one rule.
This earth was not meant to be our final destination as God says "My spirit will not contend with man forever for he is mortal..." --Genesis 6:3
Why would anyone want to leave earth if it was perfect. "It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of feasting, for death is the destiny of every man; the living should take this to heart."--Ecclesiastes 7:2
There is no question that evil people prosper. Look at Timothy McVeigh who murdered hundreds and yet instead of receiving his death as punishment he is allowed to write a book of his butchery and make a profit of it. King Solomon said "In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these: a righteous man perishing in his righteousness, and a wicked man living long in his wickedness."--Ecclesiastes 7:15
If you trust God and follow him you don\'t have to worry about what everyone else does. "To the man who pleases him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner he gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God...."--Ecclesiastes 2:26
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hmmm, interesting read.
But how come all the links you guys put up read from the NIV or the Living Bible? How come none of them come from the KJV, the oldest English standard works.
If that were meant for scientists to read, surely a scientist could understand what "firmament", "yield", and "midst" mean?
I\'m gonna go ahead and say that it was a nice read, but it just puts forth many, upon many arguments already in here, from both sides.
Sorry.
Eric Jacob
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Well die and see where you end up at. Then you will truely know if there is a god or not. I believe there is a god and there is a heaven and hell. The devil has tricked a lot of ppl and divided us into demonination. I mean putting christians against christians. Church vs Church. And plus I have had to many real situations that prove to me there is a god. All science has done is cause more bad then good. If it was not for science they would not be able to invent all these diseases like the AIDS virus which we all know was created in lab.
I mean they have been creating these disease and spreading them to ppl for so long. I found it very funny how MI:2 was plotted around a man that created the worst disease in the history of man. And a big corp tried to infect the world with it and then make money off the cure. Sound a lot like what is going on in the real world.
This world is getting worse and worse. I mean 40years ago ppl where not dying from cancer like they are know. No of days anything you do can give you cancer. There is so much money to be made in sickness. At some point in time this world is going to have to pay. I believe in god and see no reason that point to not believing.
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Actually, I heard they had cornered AIDS down to some jungle man living alone with Crabs or Chlamydia and he screwed a moneky or something and wa la!
:)
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Actually, I heard they had cornered AIDS down to some jungle man living alone with Crabs or Chlamydia and he screwed a moneky or something and wa la!
:)
Eric Jacob
I hope your joking and don\'t truely believe this.
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If you can\'t tell than there is no hope for you.
Eric Jacob
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While I could believe in a superior being (called God in lack of a better term); I\'d never believe in a heaven and hell. Those are manmade I think. But I can\'t proove that \'God\' exists/doesn\'t exist. But heaven/hell I couldn\'t believe in.
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Im not animal and if I was I wouldnt be a monkey I would be a polar bear cause nobody expects the polar bear
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I am not an animal, I am a human being.
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Originally posted by chippedtooth
Im not animal and if I was I wouldnt be a monkey I would be a polar bear cause nobody expects the polar bear
:laughing:
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Originally posted by Samwise
While I could believe in a superior being (called God in lack of a better term); I\'d never believe in a heaven and hell. Those are manmade I think. But I can\'t proove that \'God\' exists/doesn\'t exist. But heaven/hell I couldn\'t believe in.
Exactly, I don\'t believe that a rational and superior being “GOD” would have the need to torment or reward his creations after this life time. :D I mean for some of us living on earth is either Hell already, or Heaven because we have 20 million dollars in our bank account.
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Ok... im not an expert on the bible or anything , but adam and eve lived in that garden , untill they disobeyed god and listend to the devil and ate the fruit. well i suspect that adam and eve were living in heaven , and then god sent them down to the land that had been created for the lesser animals , but when they die they go back up to the garden to be renewed . and i dont know if theres a religion that believes this but i do!
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Ok... im not an expert on the bible or anything , but adam and eve lived in that garden , untill they disobeyed god and listend to the devil and ate the fruit. well i suspect that adam and eve were living in heaven , and then god sent them down to the land that had been created for the lesser animals , but when they die they go back up to the garden to be renewed . and i dont know if theres a religion that believes this but i do!
Well, Adam and Eve is in the Jewish and Christian faiths, and neither of them back up your statement, sorry.
And in regards to the KJV, in many passages it\'s translations are now considered mislead. Even now the NIV has mistranslations. It\'s all in the problems found in the ancient languages in which there is no true English equivalent. There are benefits to KJV, but the most recent NIV, and the Living provide more accurate translations. My own personal Bible is a Living version, with notes as to major translation conflicts and provides the alternatives. Most rewarding.
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i read somewhere that scientists have found that all humans are 99.9% equal. that is interesting to me. i dont know why, but it is,
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I don\'t believe in Heaven or Hell either, and neither does my church.
I think it is silly that you would go to hell even if you never even heard of God (think China 100 years ago). In the Mormon faith there are 3 kingdoms + Outer Darkness.
The highest kingdom is the Celestial Kingdom. This is reserved for members of the church that have been faithful and have acted upon their faith through out their lives and have remained temple worthy throughout their lives. It is like the glory of the sun. God and His son live in the Celestial Kingdom.
The terrestial is of another glory. It is like the glory of the moon to the sun. It is of a lesser nature because The Father and the Son do not live in the kingdom.
The Telestial Kingdom is for those with faith but didn\'t do everything right, maybe never went to church. It is comparable to the glory of the stars to the sun.
Then you have outer darkness. It hasn\'t been revealed if it is a mental state (as in anguish for doing wrong) or an actual physical state, but it is reserved for those who deny the Holy Ghost after being given it by baptism and truly knew of the Holy Ghost, then turned it away.
All of that is in Corinthians 15, by the way. Of course that is from the KJV. The NIV and LB probably have it removed, moved, or altered to save face for the teachings of the church.
That is why we have baptisms for the dead. So those who have never gotten a chance to learn about the true church of Christ can learn in the afterlife and hopefully accept it, so they can live in the Celestial Kingdom, with Heavenly Father. Which is why we send missionaries across the world to teach in a nations and in all tongues (even now in China!).
BFTD is also in Corinthians 15 (KJV)
Eric Jacob
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First I\'d like to say that I haven\'t read the whole thread. Only the last page. Forgive me.
But these are my perceptions. I hope they do not insult anybody.
For me, the Bible is almost entirely symbolic. Especially the myth of creation. It has many common features with other creation myths of the world, and like the others, serves a symbolic purpose of explaining why the world is like it is in its time. For example, the creation of woman after man. This myth was created to justify the patriarchal (is that the correct term.) society of the past. The story of Eve is very similar to that of Pandora. It\'s the "curious" & "deceitful" nature of woman what causes horrible things in both. And, to no surprise, both were written by men.
I think we humans are animals. It\'s ridiculous, I think, to even suggest otherwise. What makes us different from other species? Our brains, culture? True, but our instincts are just like other animals\'. The meaning of our lives is to procreate. We eat, sleep, fight, look for a mate, have offspring, die. So what if we do a little thinking in the process, or even choose otherwise, like me. In the end it\'s all the same.
Back to religion. I believe that religion is an entirely personal subject. Perhaps due to the nature of my faith, which is difficult to explain because of my lacking skills in English. What I hate most are those people who try to force their beliefs onto other people. So what if others are living their lives "wrong". What gives u right to judge them? And why does it even bother u? No one knows exactly what in this world is "wrong" or "right", in moral questions. To me, wrong is anything that hurts other people or oneself. Anything else, fine by me. I do not believe in "sin". Thus, I do not think homosexuality, for example, is sin, for it does not (normally) hurt anyone.
Well now. That\'s about it. My point of view. U have a right for yours, I have mine.
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Originally posted by SmallLady
. . . For example, the creation of woman after man. This myth was created to justify the patriarchal (is that the correct term.) society of the past. The story of Eve is very similar to that of Pandora. It\'s the "curious" & "deceitful" nature of woman what causes horrible things in both. And, to no surprise, both were written by men.
I think we humans are animals. . .
. . .What I hate most are those people who try to force their beliefs onto other people. So what if others are living their lives "wrong". What gives u right to judge them? And why does it even bother u? No one knows exactly what in this world is "wrong" or "right", in moral questions. To me, wrong is anything that hurts other people or oneself. Anything else, fine by me. I do not believe in "sin". Thus, I do not think homosexuality, for example, is sin, for it does not (normally) hurt anyone.
The main difference between Eve and Pandora is that Pandora was created as punishment for man. Eve was created from companionship of man. And man sinned just as much as women on the Adam/Eve story.
Humans are animals. I agree.
Religion should not be pushed on anyone, just as science shouldn\'t be pushed on anyone.
The one thing I differ in your statement is on homosexuality. I believe that is is a sin. Sin can bring enjoyment and not hurt anyone, but it hurts the soul. I\'ve been struglling with this for a while though. I have a couple gay friends and I\'ve recently met a Trans-gender. And the more I talk to them, the morte I realise that it is a sin, one that has been covered up quite well by Satan. I also believ in original sin, so for the genetics argument, I\'m not buying it. I really wish SmallLady didn\'t open up this "Pandoras Box" ;), but you want to know what I believe, and you got it!
AlteredBeast
Please stop dissing all translations other than KJV!!!
1 Corinthians 15:29 (KJV)
"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
1 Corinthians 15:29 (NIV)
Now if there is no ressurection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?"
It says the same thing.
Now, about baptizing for the dead:
"The present tense suggests that at Corinth people were currently being baptized for the dead. But because Paul does not give any more information about the practice, many attempts have been made to interpret the concept. Three of these are:
1) Living believers were baptized for believers who died before they were baptized, so that they too, in a sense, would not miss out on baptism.
2) Christians were being baptized in anticipation of the ressurection of the dead.
3) New converts were being baptized to fill the ranks of Christians who died.
At any rate, Paul mentions this custom almost in passing, using it in his arguments substaining the ressurection of the dead, but without necessarily approving of the practice. Probably the passage will always remain abscure." - Kenneth Barker
So, there ya go. It\'s a prcatice that is not intended for everyone, but done in a secluded part of the country. I\'m not saying that you shouldn\'t, just that you shouldn\'t bash people for not doing it.
I also have a question about the rest of your post about Heaven/Hell, could you give me specific refferences to the different kingdoms you speak of? Thanks.
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\'Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."\'
--John 18:36
\'After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."\'
--Acts 1:9-11
\'Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.\'
--1 Corinthians 6:9-10
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Originally posted by Falcon4
i read somewhere that scientists have found that all humans are 99.9% equal. that is interesting to me. i dont know why, but it is,
That`s normal for me. Strange is that a fruit fly has 60% of the same genetic material of a human.
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Chimpanzees will rule the world some day...
::twidles thumbs::
...any day now.
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
Chimpanzees will rule the world some day...
::twidles thumbs::
...any day now.
I think we\'ve seen too many "Planet of the Apes" movies. ;)
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Too make a long story very short. Life is too complicated to just happen. The way are bodies are made with every cell, the way we can reproduce, the way we have feelings, and the way a big purple blob controls what are body does. Also you must look outside of earth. To explain though how it came about, Science will NEVER be able to prove the beginging of time. The story of Noah\'s Ark is definitly true, because we have the boat. To have someone work on something that big and take every animal into it he could find, and do it on just a hunch? No way, he was told it was going to happen.
God told the people what to write in the Bible, if men would have wrote things in it that was not from God, the book would not be perfect. The Bible is perfect and nothing in it contridicts itself, everything is perfect. Also people in those Death experiences that come back to life shortly after they leave where they were, MANY fit the description of the place that John writes about in Revelation. Also many have claim to have seen Jesus, and descesed relatives. I belive in those happening. I belive that the "tunnel" experience though is just something totally different. Also one death thing had one guy, where he went to a scortching hot place with these things that were biting him and it hurt so bad, and he was just being tormented. He wasn\'t a beliver of God till after he came back, then he became a priest. Wether or not that last one is fake, I don\'t know. But I can tell you for sure that there is a God and there is a Devil, and a heaven and hell. Its all real. Think of it this way. What if you don\'t ever believe in God and you do wined up spending eternity in hell. Then what will you say about it?
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I think I will give up this topic soon.
Its getting ugly.
I really don´t want to have a discussion about Homosexualls and if they are in conspiracy with the devil. This is IMO pathetic to say and belive.
It seems like I have said before, nobody is going to change their minds about religion and science.
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Originally posted by JediMaster
Life is too complicated to just happen.
The story of Noah\'s Ark is definitly true, because we have the boat.
God told the people what to write in the Bible.
The Bible is perfect and nothing in it contridicts itself, everything is perfect.
But I can tell you for sure that there is a God and there is a Devil, and a heaven and hell. Its all real.
AHHHH, Now I´m angry!!!
"life is too complicated to just happened."
We are creating life in laboratories today, we know the mechanism behind life. Today science can create life.
"The story of Noah´s Ark is definitly true, because we have the boat."
Please!!!! Where is this boat? have you any proofs or is just plain BS from you?
"God told the people what to write in the bible"
And how do you know that? Any links? Or is it just your opinion.
"The Bible is perfect and nothing in it contridicts itself, everything is perfect. "
According to how? have you any links? Proof?
"But I can tell you for sure that there is a God and there is a Devil, and a heaven and hell. Its all real."
You tell me for sure?!? Well prove it then, I would love that.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
*1) I really don´t want to have a discussion about Homosexualls and if they are in conspiracy with the devil. This is IMO pathetic to say and belive[sic].
* 2) "life is too complicated to just happened."
We are creating life in laboratories today, we know the mechanism behind life. Today science can create life.
* 3) "The story of Noah´s Ark is definitly true, because we have the boat."
Please!!!! Where is this boat? have you any proofs or is just plain BS from you?
* 4) "God told the people what to write in the bible"
And how do you know that? Any links? Or is it just your opinion.
* 5) "The Bible is perfect and nothing in it contridicts itself, everything is perfect. "
According to how? have you any links? Proof?
1) Nobody said that ("conspire"), don\'t put words in one\'s mouth.
2) And how many times have we failed? At UGA we recently cloned 8 cows, but hundreds had to die before we could get 8 measly cows.
3) Yes, remnants of the ark were found, on top of some mountain somwhere.
4) We already discussed this.
5) Go try to find a contradiction. You won\'t find one.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
2) And how many times have we failed? At UGA we recently cloned 8 cows, but hundreds had to die before we could get 8 measly cows.
3) Yes, remnants of the ark were found, on top of some mountain somwhere.
2. Thats because we dont know everything yet(about cloneing).. This is just the beginning...
Soon we can clone cows without having any embrio dying..
3. I think it was in turky.. You could only see it from the air..
Im not so sure its the truth..
Noah saved 1 male and 1 female of every species..
If that is the truth, they would inbreed and we would have very funny looking and stupid animals.. (Deformed and retarded)
:)
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Alright, this is how I see how god created man. Yes, this debate is over but something worth hearing came to my mind today.
God create man using science. Hear me out. God created the first living asexual cell which he knew would eventually evolve into other things. Then, he decided to see what would happen so he took a big sleep. Then, he saw the dinosaurs roaming around and decided that they wern\'t what he was looking for in the most powerful specie so he decided to send a astroid at the earth and completely wipe out the dinosaurs. He went to sleep again. and eventually humans ruled the earth. He saw they were making tremendous progress but when things were getting rough he decided to send someone down to fix all the chaos, which was Jesus. And you now the rest from here. :)
I don\'t honestly believe all this, but I thought I made a interesting theory nontheless. :p
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I am about over with this article.
but before I go:
Bossieman - I am amazed you have such a position on the normality of gay people! Any "scientist" should know that ALL of the cells and our genes in our body are meant to aid in survival and REPRODUCTION. If someone is gay, isn\'t sort of a defect they got going with their genes? WOuld it be reasonable to believe if scientists fully crack the human genome that they will fix any errors someone has on their genes, unability to reproduce would probably be a biggy. (read: I have nothing against gays personally, although I do think they commit a great sin)
Also, the day they clone a human into a living, breathing, THINKING clone. I will then give up 99% of all my religious beliefs. Why? If someone can be cloned, their soul would not be cloned too, therefore if a thinking person comes out of a clone then that will show the absence of spirit and soul, destroying nearly every religious belief about a person.
But I don\'t think that will happen...ever.
3) I dont think they have found pieces of Noah\'s Ark, I don\'t know what kinda Ganja you are on, but gimme a link.
Eric Jacob
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I guess I\'m defect then too, because I hate kids. :)
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Originally posted by Jumpman
Alright, this is how I see how god created man. Yes, this debate is over but something worth hearing came to my mind today.
God create man using science. Hear me out. God created the first living asexual cell which he knew would eventually evolve into other things. Then, he decided to see what would happen so he took a big sleep. Then, he saw the dinosaurs roaming around and decided that they wern\'t what he was looking for in the most powerful specie so he decided to send a astroid at the earth and completely wipe out the dinosaurs. He went to sleep again. and eventually humans ruled the earth. He saw they were making tremendous progress but when things were getting rough he decided to send someone down to fix all the chaos, which was Jesus. And you now the rest from here. :)
I don\'t honestly believe all this, but I thought I made a interesting theory nontheless. :p
This is the first time I disagree with you on a part. The dinosaurs died out over time, no comet.
God said he created Adam out of the sand and Eve from his rib. He said this and it didn\'t take millions of yeards. The earth is only about 50,000 years old, not millions and millions. Before the flood on anything carbon dated it gets all screwed up and it appears different because of the earths air pressure. When all men were about 10 feet tall (and yes there are old footprints found to prove this).
God most likely used scientific real elements to help Moses and everyone else. In the beginning Venus was accually a comet that came to earth that would help Moses and later go on to slow down... That is why all anciet writings said Venus was hot and scorching but early modern scientists thought it was desurted. But when the probes got there. It was molten, just like the early writings but enough of this. If you want to hear what I am talking about go to the library and see if they have a book called "Worlds in Collision" by Immanuel Velicousky (not sure if the last name is right, it sounds like it is writen).
Yes we are cloning by having the genetic parts to do so, with a way to fertilize it from a living creature. This is different. Creating living beings from absolutly nothing to fertilize an egg. God is real.
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This question is directed at Lavan.
Many scientists that study evolution believe that Neanderthal man is not an ancestor of homeo sapiens and that in fact just died out once homeo sapiens arrived on the scene. My question to you is do you agree with this and if so where do you think homeo sapiens evolved from?
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I was having coffee with Jesus yesterday. He was hitting on me the bastard!
Yup... Jesus Hernandez is the most queer person I know... :nut: :p
Just trying to lighten the mood... Remember, while making a tax plan Homer discovered proof there was no God... think about it....;)
I don\'t know what you guys think (I\'m not actually reading this thread), but It\'s entirely possible we were created in a alien laboratory, and left here as a huge lab experiment...
\'Hey... who are you guys? What are you doing with that white jacket? No. No! NOOO*......\'
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Originally posted by EThugg
I don\'t know what you guys think (I\'m not actually reading this thread), but It\'s entirely possible we were created in a alien laboratory, and left here as a huge lab experiment...
I have actually read that somewhere. I don\'t want to get into conspiracy theories and the like so I won\'t elaborate.
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Originally posted by JediMaster
This is the first time I disagree with you on a part. The dinosaurs died out over time, no comet.
God said he created Adam out of the sand and Eve from his rib. He said this and it didn\'t take millions of yeards. The earth is only about 50,000 years old, not millions and millions. Before the flood on anything carbon dated it gets all screwed up and it appears different because of the earths air pressure. When all men were about 10 feet tall (and yes there are old footprints found to prove this).
God most likely used scientific real elements to help Moses and everyone else. In the beginning Venus was accually a comet that came to earth that would help Moses and later go on to slow down... That is why all anciet writings said Venus was hot and scorching but early modern scientists thought it was desurted. But when the probes got there. It was molten, just like the early writings but enough of this. If you want to hear what I am talking about go to the library and see if they have a book called "Worlds in Collision" by Immanuel Velicousky (not sure if the last name is right, it sounds like it is writen).
Yes we are cloning by having the genetic parts to do so, with a way to fertilize it from a living creature. This is different. Creating living beings from absolutly nothing to fertilize an egg. God is real.
The earth is about 4.5 billion years old...stop saying weird things. They\'ve already found pieces of the asteroid that hit earth approximately 65 million years ago. Of course there were people that were ten feet tall. In the Guiness book of records, the tallest man recorded in the past 100 years was Robert Wadlow...9\'8 1/2"...almost ten feet tall. No flood or earth\'s air pressure can effect carbon dating in any way, shape, form, fashion, dimension, and/or being. I don\'t know where you came up with the Venus thing, but that\'s not right at all. Anyway...just read a little more on things before you say stuff. I appreciate your contribution...so don\'t take anything personally.
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
The earth is about 4.5 billion years old...stop saying weird things. They\'ve already found pieces of the asteroid that hit earth approximately 65 million years ago. . .
The scientific community still argues over the age of the Earth. There is no concrete number, so let\'s not get into it.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
The scientific community still argues over the age of the Earth. There is no concrete number, so let\'s not get into it.
Alrighty...;) I know...but they\'re getting good at telling now...it\'s definitely not thousands of years, though...and you should know that (sorry for harshness).
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
Alrighty...;) I know...but they\'re getting good at telling now...it\'s definitely not thousands of years, though...and you should know that (sorry for harshness).
I\'ve never put a number on the Earth\'s age myself. I know it\'s old, and that\'s all that matters.
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16 PAGES JEEEEEESUSSSSSSSSSS!!! sorry that\'s considered SPAM! But I\'ve had a rough day!
More spam for you all to bear.... 500 posts baby!
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Originally posted by ajoh432
16 PAGES JEEEEEESUSSSSSSSSSS!!! sorry that\'s considered SPAM! But I\'ve had a rough day!
Don\'t use the Lord\'s name in vain...:) What do you mean 16 pages...? It\'s up to 40 right now...and I\'m sorry you\'ve had a rough day...
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
Don\'t use the Lord\'s name in vain...:) What do you mean 16 pages...? It\'s up to 40 right now...and I\'m sorry you\'ve had a rough day...
what do ya mean... it says 16 pages....
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Originally posted by ajoh432
what do ya mean... it says 16 pages....
We all have different settings! Mine is only on ten pages!
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Ahh Yes the Venus thing is true, go check out Worlds in Collisions. In all the anciet records of the Aztecs and the Egyptians, There were always 4 planets that they could see. They called them Mercury, Earth, Mar, and Jupiter. After though, the time of Moses, Venus was added to this list, in all records it doesn\'t exist until then. Also, Venus would go on to fly near Mars, while Athena would be Venus in Roman Mythology, and Ares would be Mars. These two had many battles in mytholodgy. Immaneul here goes on to describe what most likely happened. The two came into contact, and then giant lighting bolts were shot out from the coment to the planet. This is where part of mythology comes from. This slowed down Venus enough to begin an orbit around the sun. "Worlds in Collision" Clearly proves this much more than I can. Venus was what God was for Moses. He said that there would be a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day. That would be like a comet wouldn\'t you think? Also in there it says that fire began to fall from the sky. In the book it explains that Venus would let loose Oil and gas into the earth, that would allow for the fires to fall down on the planet. Also, that is why there are so Many large oil deposits around the Egpyt area, then there are other places. Also this is described in the acient civilizations records in all of them. Its very facinating. It is true, you would belive it if you read the book.
In response to Altered Beasts Religion. It clearly states that: "One does not get into heaven by good works, so no one can boast. Only faith in Jesus Christ gets you to heaven." Those aren\'t the exact words but that is in there somewhere. The Bible says there is a Heaven and Hell and nothing else. There are two places after death. I don\'t know where your church gets all that from but that is definitly not what is in the Bible at all. They have redone parts of it and should look at a real Bible of Christiainity to see what it really says.
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Originally posted by JediMaster
Also, Venus would go on to fly near Mars, while Athena would be Venus in Roman Mythology, and Ares would be Mars. These two had many battles in mytholodgy.
I\'m afraid you\'re mistaken with the Mythology. Venus(Athena) was married to Vulcan(Haephestus), but had a secret love affair with Mars(Ares). They had a child, Harmonia, love and war as one, sex and violence. It\'s a big deal that they loved each other. If anything it was "lover\'s quarrels," but mostly they were in love.
That collision was not of a battle in mythology, but they were getting close, and probably produced Harmonia at the time. ;)
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I\'m afraid your the one whos mistaken this time. Aphrodite was the one who was married to Hetphatus, and had the affair with Ares. Athena was for the Greeks and Ares was for the Trojans. :D
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Originally posted by JediMaster
I\'m afraid your the one whos mistaken this time. Aphrodite was the one who was married to Hetphatus, and had the affair with Ares. Athena was for the Greeks and Ares was for the Trojans. :D
Wait. . . I did make a mistake, but you\'re still wrong![/b] ;)
Aphrodite is the Greek equivalent to Venus!
The Roman name of Athena is Minerva.
So Athena is not Venus.
And you\'re right about Athena and Ares. But that doesn\'t explain Venus.
UPDATE: Here is what I should have said:
I\'m afraid you\'re mistaken with the Mythology. Venus(Aphrodite) was married to Vulcan(Hephaestus), but had a secret love affair with Mars(Ares). They had three children, Terror, Fear, and Harmonia: love and war as one, sex and violence. It\'s a big deal that they loved each other. If anything it was "lover\'s quarrels," but mostly they were in love.
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Holy....... I did a report on Ares and Venus last April for class. I just pulled up my report here and have it saying Venus and Athena are the same. And I have all these websites I have shoved into drawers on the print outs that all say Venus is Athena, but all the websites now say that Aphrodite is Venus. Something is not right here. I will look into this......
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I just opened up my own personal copy of Worlds in Collision and it says that Athena is Venus. But now all these websites are different then the stuff that was there in April, I wonder why....
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JediMaster - don\'t talk to me about changing the Bible. We still use the KJV of the Bible, you know, the oldest English version, the one that gives respect to God?
Look in Corinthians dear boy, it talks about the glory of three kingdoms and how they are likened by the glory of the lights in the sky. I don\'t think they took it out of NIV or LBV, it would be a travesty if they did.
changing the Bible around? gimme a break. come talk to me when you pivk up a copy of the King James version, then you will see how a Bible can be changed around (read: NIV)
Eric Jacob
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(I have put all the verses I posted in here into KJV for your veiwing pleasure:D)
I have 6 versions of the Bible. I know that there are 2 kingdoms, it states it about 20 times in the bible.
It seems that your church could have easily interpreted it differently than it was ment to be. I will write what I have to say and than paste it here in a sec.
These bodies it talks about are printed in the living bible which explains it more clearly
the Celestial bodies are the angels, they live in heaven among men and God, also they have come down to earth.
It says our bodies are the terrestrial. The Angels are above us.
The part about the moon and the stars and the sun is telling us that each of us have a different kind of faith amount, some it is weaker than others while with others it is stronger, and the Angels faith is much greater than ours.
I don\'t know where you get the outer darkness from.
This entire section says nothing about 3 kingdoms and 1 outer darkness. It talks about angels bodies with ours and the amounts of faith we have. It does not say anything about seperating Angels,God,Humans. No one gets to heaven by good works. Christ says it himself. Your Church is not following what the Bible says. They have interpreted this passage very wrong (as many churches do interpret things wrong). Saying you do not go to heaven by faith is also wrong. Plus those are the words of Paul in a letter, not the word of Jesus.
Faith before good works: Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." The only ranks in heaven are the ranks of God, the angels rank, and the human souls who are not ranked at all.
Hell: Jesus clearly says in Matthew 10:28 (one of may fav verses) "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. but ratherfear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell."
Heaven: Jesus says in Matthew 18:3: "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become like little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven." This is saying that unless you act like a little child and belive what he tells to you without questioning it, then you will be able to enter heaven with the faith in Jesus Christ. I don\'t see how in the world you can belive in Christ and yet not belive that there is a heaven and a hell like he says. Thats like saying he is lying. And if he is a liar then he is not perfect. And if he isn\'t perfect then he isn\'t The Son of God.
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Alright Altered, here is 1 Corinthians, 15 in KJV.
http://www.cforc.com/kjv/1_Corinthians/15.html
Please cut and paste where is says there is more than one Heaven in your next post. I\'ve asked you to do this before, but you still haven\'t answered.
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Who thinks this thread should be closed.. I do.. but for the hell of it.
i\'ll let people vote...
Yes.. Close it.
No.. Don\'t close it.
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Don\'t close it just yet! It was just starting to pick up again! I say keep it unless some spamming starts.
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Close it.
Look I just spammed. I\'ll do it again if you don\'t close it.
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Looks like Jumpman is afraid to talk about his beliefs! (I kid, I kid)
Just before we close I want to hear a response from AlteredBeast about this:
"Alright Altered, here is 1 Corinthians, 15 in KJV.
http://www.cforc.com/kjv/1_Corinthians/15.html
Please cut and paste where is says there is more than one Heaven in your next post. I\'ve asked you to do this before, but you still haven\'t answered."
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Venus(Athena) was married to Vulcan(Haephestus), but had a secret love affair with Mars(Ares). They had a child, Harmonia, love and war as one, sex and violence. It\'s a big deal that they loved each other. If anything it was "lover\'s quarrels," but mostly they were in love.
YEAHH,RIGHT!! As a beliver of science this is just BS, Nobody, nobody should take that seriously IMO!
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Originally posted by Bossieman
YEAHH,RIGHT!! As a beliver of science this is just BS, Nobody, nobody should take that seriously IMO!
No one is SUPPOSE to take that seriously, Einstein.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
YEAHH,RIGHT!! As a beliver of science this is just BS, Nobody, nobody should take that seriously IMO!
It\'s Mythology: the study of an imaginary or unverifyable person or thing.
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It\'s all a lie!
:D
(Damnit, Vid, you posted the link to this thread and I have to revive it!)
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Can you believe this thread is 4 years old?
Seems like just yesterday we found out that dinosaurs were killed in the flood.
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+1
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.
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Best thread ever.
RESSURECT BY THE POWER OF GOD ALMIGHTY OF FORUMS.
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I remember this thread, but I don\'t think I posted in it. Lots of great viewpoints in here.
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open!
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lol..i wish i was around when this thread was made..cept i wouldnt have had as strong of an opinion since i didnt have all my science classes.
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So is this where the people who dont have the nerve to say anything about God in public get together and bash Him?
Oh, and we are \'animals\'. If you like to think of yourself that way, go right ahead. Oh and before you shoot up your local highschool/mall/grocery store etc, be sure to warn me first, thanks.
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It\'s called a discussion.
Edit: What\'s with all the "Posts: n/a" in here? Were those people banned or something?
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Discussion? All these topics in forums end up the same way:
A bunch of anti-relgiion or anti-God people get together and take alot of shots at religion or God or whatever they got beef with and pro-religion or pro-God guys are usually not up to trying to talk to such people because of the bully atmosphere that is created by the anti-God/religion people.
You know this as well as I do. Some will see this as a place to explain thier beliefs others will see it as a place to take shots at other people\'s beliefs. Do I have to go through this thread and record how many cheap shots were taken at religious members etc to prove my point?
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mother of all resurrects and we\'re already starting to get back into it :)
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Discussion? All these topics in forums end up the same way:
A bunch of anti-relgiion or anti-God people get together and take alot of shots at religion or God or whatever they got beef with and pro-religion or pro-God guys are usually not up to trying to talk to such people because of the bully atmosphere that is created by the anti-God/religion people.
You know this as well as I do. Some will see this as a place to explain thier beliefs others will see it as a place to take shots at other people\'s beliefs. Do I have to go through this thread and record how many cheap shots were taken at religious members etc to prove my point?
This doesn\'t only happen in forums. It happens everywhere. :/
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So is this where the people who dont have the nerve to say anything about God in public get together and bash Him?
Oh, and we are \'animals\'. If you like to think of yourself that way, go right ahead. Oh and before you shoot up your local highschool/mall/grocery store etc, be sure to warn me first, thanks.
I have zero problem with stating my opinion on religion in public. Thanks for assuming that tho\'!:thumb:
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Discussion? All these topics in forums end up the same way:
A bunch of anti-relgiion or anti-God people get together and take alot of shots at religion or God or whatever they got beef with and pro-religion or pro-God guys are usually not up to trying to talk to such people because of the bully atmosphere that is created by the anti-God/religion people.
You know this as well as I do. Some will see this as a place to explain thier beliefs others will see it as a place to take shots at other people\'s beliefs. Do I have to go through this thread and record how many cheap shots were taken at religious members etc to prove my point?
Shut up.
Just because you\'re wrong ;)
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So is this where the people who dont have the nerve to say anything about God in public get together and bash Him?
Oh, and we are \'animals\'. If you like to think of yourself that way, go right ahead. Oh and before you shoot up your local highschool/mall/grocery store etc, be sure to warn me first, thanks.
Nah, I tear apart god and religion quite often in public. Thanks for trying though ;)
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damn,..i didn\'t go through the entire thread, but there are some members here that i\'ve never seen before, and some that haven\'t posted in years..heh, where are they now?...
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Titan, the only thing I could see you tearing apart is the paper packaging on a cheeseburger (http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/cheeseburger.jpg) you fat fuck.
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Titan, the only thing I could see you tearing apart is the paper packaging on a url=http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/cheeseburger.jpg]cheeseburger[/url] you fat fuck.
That shit is hard to rip apart. And I\'m not fat. I\'m really skinny :(
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And I\'m not fat. I\'m really skinny :(
1) Lift heavy pieces of iron.
2) Eat.
3) Sleep.
4) Repeat.
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You\'d be surprised on how much I eat and how much fatty foods I eat and how much I sleep.
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You\'d be surprised on how much I eat and how much fatty foods I eat and how much I sleep.
...and how much heavy iron you\'re not lifting.
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Fuckers. I go read another site for a few seconds, and I come back and you spammers have replied to my message before I had time to edit it.
Fucking hell.
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We knew what you meant. It\'s cool. Now back to the uh...being animals topic...and such.
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...and how much heavy iron you\'re not lifting.
Touche ;)
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y\'know there\'s a scripture in the bible that talks about the earth being a sphere,...and god stating something along the lines of i have set the earth on nothing.*nothing meaning the universe*..i gotta do the research, but the point bein is that back then how could have anybody known that the earth was round? back then there was an issue of the world bein flat, yet the bible disputed that waaay back then and yet who do give the fame and glamour to? christopher columbus...i\'ll find that scripture, cause no-matter what version of the bible you may have, they should all say the same thing or be very similar at the very least...
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...and god stating something along the lines of...
Last time you said that, it was completely wrong. Have you actually ever opened a bible?
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Last time you said that, it was completely wrong. Have you actually ever opened a bible?
whatchu talkin bout willis?..:mad:...:p...i think i\'ve mentioned already that i\'m not a bible thumper like that, and stop jumpin\' the gun, i stated i\'m goin\' to have to look it up,...the majority of the time when i post i\'m at work, so t\'morrow round this time or earlier i\'ll have the scripture...capeesh?...and what exactly was i wrong about?
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You said "...something along the lines of..." and then you said something that wasn\'t in the bible. You don\'t have to be a bible thumper, but "remembering" things from the bible that aren\'t even in the bible doesn\'t help your point. You did this in another thread.
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You said "...something along the lines of..." and then you said something that wasn\'t in the bible. You don\'t have to be a bible thumper, but "remembering" things from the bible that aren\'t even in the bible doesn\'t help your point. You did this in another thread.
i think i kinda remember that,...i really can\'t dispute it tho if what your\'re talkin isn\'t in front of me, i can take what you\'re sayin at face value*me bein wrong, but to an extent i won\'t* there are so many threads of this nature, and i don\'t feel like tryin to find it, it might\'ve been one of those things were my comment was taken out of context,..like that "could be there\'s no air pollution in outer space"..statement.....in any case i\'ve no problem being corrected on certain issues and have always taken to it as being a learning experience,..while others view being wrong as the coming of the apocolypse....
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I\'m just saying...it\'s a touchy subject...so it\'s important to have the facts.
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I\'m just saying...it\'s a touchy subject...so it\'s important to have the facts.
exactly...which is why i\'m going to research what i stated above...
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exactly...which is why i\'m going to research what i stated above...
But you must state the facts, where aret hey? :p
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^^^stand down ye of little faith,...have patience and i will open your eyes to the truth...:fryingpan:
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^^^stand down ye of little faith,...have patience and i will open your eyes to the truth...:fryingpan:
But what about the facts? :p
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But what about the facts? :p
Fact.
PS3 is over priced.
:thumb:
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And it prefers it in the butt.
:thumb:
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Fact.
PS3 is over priced.
:thumb:
But what about God?
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If you want the facts about God, you\'ll have to kill yourself.
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y\'know there\'s a scripture in the bible that talks about the earth being a sphere,...and god stating something along the lines of i have set the earth on nothing.*nothing meaning the universe*..i gotta do the research, but the point bein is that back then how could have anybody known that the earth was round? back then there was an issue of the world bein flat, yet the bible disputed that waaay back then and yet who do give the fame and glamour to? christopher columbus...i\'ll find that scripture, cause no-matter what version of the bible you may have, they should all say the same thing or be very similar at the very least...
Actually, back then, most sailors knew the earth was round because you can see the curvature of the earth. Anyone that was in the open ocean knew the earth was round. They didn\'t know how big. That myth about Columbus is just that, a myth. He knew it was round and so did his crew. There are a lot of myths about Columbus and the majority aren\'t true.
EDIT: and the bible says the earth is flat. I can find a website with that but I\'m hungry so I\'m gonna run out to White Castle. I\'ll revisit the flat/round earth thing when I get back and fully nourished and actually have pants on (that\'s right, I\'m not wearing pants right now (boxers)).
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If you want the facts about God, you\'ll have to kill yourself.
No I dont have to
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Actually, back then, most sailors knew the earth was round because you can see the curvature of the earth. Anyone that was in the open ocean knew the earth was round. They didn\'t know how big. That myth about Columbus is just that, a myth. He knew it was round and so did his crew. There are a lot of myths about Columbus and the majority aren\'t true.
EDIT: and the bible says the earth is flat. I can find a website with that but I\'m hungry so I\'m gonna run out to White Castle. I\'ll revisit the flat/round earth thing when I get back and fully nourished and actually have pants on (that\'s right, I\'m not wearing pants right now (boxers)).
you do know the bible has been around longer than christopher and crew right? so there goes that theory...anyways... (Isaiah 40:22) states...there is one who is dwelling above the CIRCLE of the earth, the dwellers which are grasshoppers, the one who is strecthing out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell.
..(Job 26:7) states...and this refers to the earth being in space...."He is strecthing out the north over the empty place, Hanging the earth upon nothing"....
titan what are you talkin\' about?...clearly the scripture here states the earth is round...the bible itself is nearly 1600 - 2000 years old, waaay before chris\'s time,...alot of people was afraid to sail because if you looked into the distance on the ocean, it actually looked flat...i\'m sure there were other people thought the earth was round, but the point is is that the bible stated this waaay before any of them claimed it was round.....i\'ll be back to discuss this later on tonight, since i work nights, i live like a vampire during the day, or sleep like a vampire during the day...
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you do know the bible has been around longer than christopher and crew right? so there goes that theory...anyways... (Isaiah 40:22) states...there is one who is dwelling above the CIRCLE of the earth, the dwellers which are grasshoppers, the one who is strecthing out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell.
..(Job 26:7) states...and this refers to the earth being in space...."He is strecthing out the north over the empty place, Hanging the earth upon nothing"....
titan what are you talkin\' about?...clearly the scripture here states the earth is round...the bible itself is nearly 1600 - 2000 years old, waaay before chris\'s time,...alot of people was afraid to sail because if you looked into the distance on the ocean, it actually looked flat...i\'m sure there were other people thought the earth was round, but the point is is that the bible stated this waaay before any of them claimed it was round.....i\'ll be back to discuss this later on tonight, since i work nights, i live like a vampire during the day, or sleep like a vampire during the day...
Ok, lets throw out Christopher Columbus. He wasn\'t part of my point. My piont was that anyone, ANYONE who sailed in open waters knew the earth was round because they saw the curvature of the earth. Man has been sailing before the bible was written. Any scholar and sailor knew the earth was round.
Go here (http://www.truechristian.com/earthflat.html). I hope this is a joke site (a few fellow atheists say it is a joke site making fun of fundies) but these are actual scripture that are on the site (hence why the dude is making fun of it, if it is a satirical site. If it is, it shows how the Bible can\'t even be taken as remote fact.).
some scripture quotes as said on the site
1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”
Isaiah 11:12: "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."
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Clips. I found another site for you based on teh Bible. This one is an actual educatoinal site and not a satirical site (although it quotes the exact scripture). I\'d read through the whole thing. I read parts of it but there is a part about Jesus being on top of the mountain and Satan showing all the kingdoms of the world which suggests a flat earth. It goes more in-depth. An interesting read.
http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/febible.htm
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This one is an actual educatoinal site and not a satirical site (although it quotes the exact scripture).
If it\'s in English, it isn\'t "exact scripture". ;)
Your flat earth thing is very stupid.
"Even the Devil can quote scripture to suit his purposes." - William Shakespeare
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I read parts of it but there is a part about Jesus being on top of the mountain and Satan showing all the kingdoms of the world which suggests a flat earth
I\'m surprised there is people who think this scripture proves that the bible writers thought the earth was flat.
Some people, lol. Reminds me of the scientists who say the Red Sea was split by a chance earthquake, or the professor who said Jesus was able to walk on water because a freak ice storm appeared suddenly in the sea of Galilee and froze the water.. Makes you wonder how Peter managed to sink ;)
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If it\'s in English, it isn\'t "exact scripture". ;)
Your flat earth thing is very stupid.
"Even the Devil can quote scripture to suit his purposes." - William Shakespeare
Well yeah. People think too much into the scripture. They also forget its been translated a few times from the original hebrew and latin and some mistranslations happen. For example the Red Sea and the Reed Sea. Moses supposedly parted the Reed Sea which is a small sea. But think about it too. If you are being chased, isn\'t a big body of water like the Red Sea stupid to try and cross to get away? Even if it was parted, the chariots and such would catch up to you. Atleast at the Reed Sea (which is just above the red sea) its dry a lot of the time. Supposedly, it flooded as moses just got passed it. Anyway, I\'ll do some research and get back. This is just shit I learned in my high school history class.
EDIT: Nevermind. Wikipedia had a short blurb and said that it was the old name for the Red Sea (was translated as such but called Sea of Reeds). But still something to think about :)
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I\'m surprised there is people who think this scripture proves that the bible writers thought the earth was flat.
Some people, lol. Reminds me of the scientists who say the Red Sea was split by a chance earthquake, or the professor who said Jesus was able to walk on water because a freak ice storm appeared suddenly in the sea of Galilee and froze the water.. Makes you wonder how John managed to sink ;)
I have better explanations of the Red Sea parting or Jesus on water....they didn\'t fucking happen ;) No historical evidence except for the bible which I hardly count as evidence. I dismiss the bible as evidence as fundies dismiss Origin of Species.
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EDIT: Nevermind. Wikipedia had a short blurb and said that it was the old name for the Red Sea (was translated as such but called Sea of Reeds). But still something to think about
Something to think about? Yeah. You negated your entire post with the edit. :thumb:
I dismiss the bible as evidence as fundies dismiss Origin of Species.
Which is still a theory, regardless of what anyone believes. Nobody was there to witness how everything happened. It\'s just bits and pieces here and there of scientific findings with a bunch of extra theories and things thrown in to create some type of coherent explanation...and even then, there are still many holes in the theories, such as the asinine way that some scientists think how natural adaptation works in the evolution of species. An example I read in biology class was how giraffes evolved to have long necks. They said that the animals couldn\'t reach the leaves in the taller trees, so the animals had to adapt by growing longer necks over a long period of time. I suppose the same logic could be applied to a family trying to reach soda cans on the top of a fridge, but they can\'t. So over a long period of adaptation and changes, generations later of this particular family grew longer arms and were finally able to reach the soda cans on top of the fridge. Some of these theories are laughable when you think about them.
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I\'m surprised there is people who think this scripture proves that the bible writers thought the earth was flat.
Some people, lol. Reminds me of the scientists who say the Red Sea was split by a chance earthquake, or the professor who said Jesus was able to walk on water because a freak ice storm appeared suddenly in the sea of Galilee and froze the water.. Makes you wonder how Peter managed to sink ;)
I know I know....the ice broke under his feet :D
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instead of bouncin around to internet sites, why not just go to the source itself,..y\'know like i did...anybody can take scriptures out of the bible and put them on their site and twist their meaning around...i saw that one site about the earth bein flat,(titan) then i read those scriptures you posted, it doesn\'t suggest that the earth was flat at all,..it\'s just stating that the earth was immovable...
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God\'s existance isnt going to be proved with the bible for one simple reason. It was written by man so at the end of the day its just a book. God may exist but that doesnt mean every thing in the bible is 100% fact.
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Did you even read this thread?
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Did you even read this thread?
its a 19 page thread..and its his third post..who the hell would read it. i havent.
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who the hell would read it.
People who want a recap on the debate.
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instead of bouncin around to internet sites, why not just go to the source itself,..y\'know like i did...anybody can take scriptures out of the bible and put them on their site and twist their meaning around...i saw that one site about the earth bein flat,(titan) then i read those scriptures you posted, it doesn\'t suggest that the earth was flat at all,..it\'s just stating that the earth was immovable...
Which is part of my point on why it isn\'t a credible source. You can take anything in the Bible and twist it around to a point where it can\'t even be a credible use.
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You can take anything in the Bible and twist it around to a point where it can\'t even be a credible use.
You can take anything from anywhere and twist it around to a point where it doesn\'t seem credible. Your point?
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You can take anything from anywhere and twist it around to a point where it doesn\'t seem credible. Your point?
That you can take it and twist it around so it can\'t be credible. Damn Evi, can\'t you read? :p
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You can take anything and twist it around, so nothing out there must be credible. Damn TITan, are you retarded?
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You can take anything and twist it around, so nothing out there must be credible. Damn TITan, are you retarded?
I just got off a 9 hour shift without a break and didn\'t sleep well last night. I\'m a little cooked right now. And no, nothing is credible :p
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I was building more of that cabin all day long in the Arizona heat getting fried for almost 10 hours on Friday with little sleep the night before. It has a freaking roof now, though.
You freaking sissy.
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I was building more of that cabin all day long in the Arizona heat getting fried for almost 10 hours on Friday with little sleep the night before. It has a freaking roof now, though.
You freaking sissy.
Its gotta be a fun project if you have a cooler full of icy cold beers though. Nothing like working in the sun with a frosty one in your hand.
Oh, did I mention I have severe insomnia which my doctor had to perscribe some strong sleeping pills to get me back on a regular sleeping pattern? Yeah...Why do you think I was up until 4 posting on these boards. I couldn\'t sleep.
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Its gotta be a fun project if you have a cooler full of icy cold beers though.
Drinking beer while working on top of a roof? No. There was lots of good food though...burgers, chili, etc... :)
Oh, did I mention I have severe insomnia which my doctor had to perscribe some strong sleeping pills to get me back on a regular sleeping pattern? Yeah...Why do you think I was up until 4 posting on these boards. I couldn\'t sleep.
You should try lifting heavy pieces of iron. That can help with insomnia. ;)
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Drinking beer while working on top of a roof? No. There was lots of good food though...burgers, chili, etc... :)
Its especially fun when you push your buddy off the roof while you\'re drunk. But burgers and chili sounds fun
You should try lifting heavy pieces of iron. That can help with insomnia. ;)
Yeah, and so does masturbating ;). But I don\'t have a membership to a gym nor have the money to spare.
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Yeah, and so does masturbating
Or...getting laid...which you badly need to do.
But I don\'t have a membership to a gym nor have the money to spare.
Meh... Not having money sucks. They say money doesn\'t buy happiness, but neither does poverty. Animals don\'t need to worry about this crap.
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Or...getting laid...which you badly need to do.
Is that an offer?
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No, dumb ass, it isn\'t.