PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: QuDDus on July 22, 2001, 09:10:24 AM
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We weltall got me thinking about casual gamers in his last post so I think that ppl are to nieve when it comes to calling ppl casual gamers. I think the use of types of gamers is dead. We are all just casual gamers. Just that some of us think we know more than we do.
I would not say casual gamers get a playsation because there friends got it. I mean it\'s 2001 ppl no all about games now. They may not goto chatrooms and read reviews on sites as much, but they no good games. If it is word of mouth or reading it in books. I mean look how many ppl flocked to ps2 95% of them where casual gamers as you would call
them. I don\'t think that gamers are as nieve as ppl think. Like they only get a system because there friends have it. I mean you have to think the game is fun or you like certain types of games to buy a system. I bought psx based on games I never even heard of before. It was 299.99 but I know I wanted it because I thought the games look nice. I think when comes down to it. PPl look at names but it\'s all about how good the games look and play. I would say the more so called "inside gamers" would look at names first. Most ppl just see a great looking games. If a game is playing in a mall hudreds of ppl will be gathered around looking at it saying how sweet it is and not even the name. Only the hardcore systems fans will worrie about the names. Because a good game is a good game no matter what . I just don\'t believe that as far as gaming has come that names are the biggest things. A good game is a good no matter if it has mario, malice, or crash too it. Ppl are going to look at the game and see how good it is and how fun its and if it appeals to them. I think that a lof of you are starting to characterize ppl as being yourselves.
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when you have 19 systems and 2 arcade machines in your room and call yourself casual still, I will talk to you some more. Until then, I know just a tad* more than you.
Eric Jacob
*by tad, I mean "much"
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The problem with the entire Casual Gamer vs. Hardcore Gamer or whole level of gamer idea is How do you define Hardcore or casual? Is Hardcore buying 25 different systems and games for each one and playing them equally? Or is it buying one system and purchasing 100s of games for the system?
It\'s believed that "casual" gamers are whom the console makers are shooting for. If that\'s the case then Casual gamers are the Main problem w/ video games today. It\'s assumed that Hardcore Gamers appreciate games and gaming far more than \'casuals\'. That \'casuals\' won\'t buy new games unless they are bombarded with cinematic ads and catchy slogans as well as FMV screen videos and promises of better graphics, and what not. Essentially, the idea is that casuals will "STOP Playing" by choice. That casuals will get bored w/ games. I think that should be the Only Definition for Hardcore and Casual. Casual gamers are those who Would STOP gaming, ever by choice at any time for any reason. Hardcore Gamers will play and seek to play anything and almost everything (with a certain level of quality)
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
when you have 19 systems and 2 arcade machines in your room and call yourself casual still, I will talk to you some more. Until then, I know just a tad* more than you.
Eric Jacob
*by tad, I mean "much"
That does not mean ****:mad: That is what I am talking about I have been playing games my entire life I had ever system I have every wanted. It is ppl like you that think they know something when they are just as dumb as the rest of us. The hole hard-core gaming thing is dead. With talk like that you remind me of a pimp trying to relive his days in the 70\'s
P.S AND NO AlteredBeast I am not trying to degrade you in anyway I just upset bye what you posted. I just don\'t see how you think that makes you better in terms of gaming. When I have been playing games just as longs as you.
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By the sound of it, you have been playing games longer than me.
But in other threads, you also write off other systems that weren\'t popular as crap and refuse to acknowledge anything good them. That is sad. I dont say any systems sucked, per se, just that I have more fun on some over the others. Event he Virtual Boy, I had mild fun on that with a few of my games, and a few of my others were complete crap.
I have already been in a topic of what a definition of hardcore is.
hardcore is playing games. And I mean PLAYING them.
hardcore is having videogame clothing.
hardcore is having videogame posters
hardcore is (in many cases) visiting message boards for information and news!
One look at my room you would say I am
a)crazy
b)a videogame fanatic
c) a collector
I\'ll choose b (and c)
Eric Jacob
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The casual public doesn\'t know a damn thing about techincal things or what system can push more polygons. They know what they see. If game (A) looks better on one system then it does on the other, then they\'ll buy that system. Its that simple.
The casual gamer doesn\'t know a damn thing about what developers invest or oringial ideas. They know about franchises and brand names.
Its that simple.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
By the sound of it, you have been playing games longer than me.
But in other threads, you also write off other systems that weren\'t popular as crap and refuse to acknowledge anything good them. That is sad. I dont say any systems sucked, per se, just that I have more fun on some over the others. Event he Virtual Boy, I had mild fun on that with a few of my games, and a few of my others were complete crap.
I have already been in a topic of what a definition of hardcore is.
hardcore is playing games. And I mean PLAYING them.
hardcore is having videogame clothing.
hardcore is having videogame posters
hardcore is (in many cases) visiting message boards for information and news!
One look at my room you would say I am
a)crazy
b)a videogame fanatic
c) a collector
I\'ll choose b (and c)
Eric Jacob
I know I may come of as hating saturn and sega cd. I just think that the sega architecture had flaws in it. And I think the saturn was strickly built for 2d gaming. I know you make thinks it\'s sad but I don\'t even achnowledge the sega cd as beeing anything. The only game I only had one game for it. Sonic cd and compared to all the other sonics It didn\'t meassure up.
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put down the peyote!
Sonic CD was better than every Side-scrolling Sonic before it.
It was longer, had Mode 7 \'3D\' bonus stages, redbook audio, time travel (neato!).
It was much better, I don\'t know if it is your hatred for SegaCD that causes that opinion, but you are wrong, sorry to say it.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
put down the peyote!
Sonic CD was better than every Side-scrolling Sonic before it.
It was longer, had Mode 7 \'3D\' bonus stages, redbook audio, time travel (neato!).
It was much better, I don\'t know if it is your hatred for SegaCD that causes that opinion, but you are wrong, sorry to say it.
Eric Jacob
:laughing: :laughing: I see your going to beat sega is good into me no matter what I say. Ok I will stop now.
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Hey, don\'t worry bout it, I have been arguing these points for years. It would have to take a more experienced non-Sega fan to jilt my opinions, or keep me from educating.
:D
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Hey, don\'t worry bout it, I have been arguing these points for years. It would have to take a more experienced non-Sega fan to jilt my opinions, or keep me from educating.
:D
Eric Jacob
No sweat. When a man has that much passion for a system I know when to stop:laughing: Even though I feel that I proved what I said even if you didn\'t listen to me:confused: But don\'t let me fool you if I find something else wrong with saturn I\'ll let you know:D
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We are all casual gamers? I beg to differ. The people who knew the Dreamcast was a good system bought it. The people who knew the Saturn was going to be a good system, despite all the falacies of the 32X and the SegaCD, bought it. These people are not hardcore gamers, but the ones who believe that buying a system for great games is what gaming is all about are the hardcore gamer. Put simply, a hardcore gamer is one who is unaffected by hype created by outside sources, one who can formulate opinions on games by playing them themselves, and one who is willing to go the extra mile to get those great games.
Who is not a hardcore gamer and who is a casual gamer? A casual gamer is someone who chooses to deny themselves certain excellent games on a specific system because they prefer what they already have. A casual gamer thinks Hype and Great games go hand-in-hand (Bouncer). Casual gamers differ from hardcore gamers because they are unwilling to go that extra mile for that great game on system C that has already failed in the eyes of the mainstream. A casual gamer uses graphics as a means of buying certain games rather then just how great they are or may seem.
To be a hardcore gamer, you don\'t have to be knowledgeable about everything in the business or know how many poly\'s system A can push more then system B. A hardcore gamer is someone who sees good games for good systems and buys\\rents\\borrows them accordingly at any cost.
You can agree or disagree with me on this one, but the best example that LiC gave was how people would buy system A over system B because game F looked "better." Who cares how it plays right? Sure thing. You don\'t have to own every single console ever made to be hardcore, but you do have to have that want and that drive to play all the great games out there at least once in your life. I pity the mainstream gamers who avoided playing the DC because the Saturn failed. May the Gaming-Gods have mercy on your souls.
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Originally posted by Ryu
We are all casual gamers? I beg to differ. The people who knew the Dreamcast was a good system bought it. The people who knew the Saturn was going to be a good system, despite all the falacies of the 32X and the SegaCD, bought it. These people are not hardcore gamers, but the ones who believe that buying a system for great games is what gaming is all about are the hardcore gamer. Put simply, a hardcore gamer is one who is unaffected by hype created by outside sources, one who can formulate opinions on games by playing them themselves, and one who is willing to go the extra mile to get those great games.
Who is not a hardcore gamer and who is a casual gamer? A casual gamer is someone who chooses to deny themselves certain excellent games on a specific system because they prefer what they already have. A casual gamer thinks Hype and Great games go hand-in-hand (Bouncer). Casual gamers differ from hardcore gamers because they are unwilling to go that extra mile for that great game on system C that has already failed in the eyes of the mainstream. A casual gamer uses graphics as a means of buying certain games rather then just how great they are or may seem.
To be a hardcore gamer, you don\'t have to be knowledgeable about everything in the business or know how many poly\'s system A can push more then system B. A hardcore gamer is someone who sees good games for good systems and buys\\rents\\borrows them accordingly at any cost.
You can agree or disagree with me on this one, but the best example that LiC gave was how people would buy system A over system B because game F looked "better." Who cares how it plays right? Sure thing. You don\'t have to own every single console ever made to be hardcore, but you do have to have that want and that drive to play all the great games out there at least once in your life. I pity the mainstream gamers who avoided playing the DC because the Saturn failed. May the Gaming-Gods have mercy on your souls.
Ok what if the games on a system don\' t appeal to you? And everyone else thinks they are good. So everyone else is hardcore and your not? I think this whole hardcore, casual thing is two-sided.
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ALL of the games on Saturn or Dreamcast don\'t appeal to you?
We don\'t call that being casual or non-hardcore, we call that fanboyism. The fact is, if you can\'t find games you like on ANY system, then you are
a)casual (not trying)
b)a fanboy against that company
c)not worthy to play that console.
Eric Jacob
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Ok what if the games on a system don\' t appeal to you? And everyone else thinks they are good. So everyone else is hardcore and your not? I think this whole hardcore, casual thing is two-sided.
Even if it\'s just 1 game or a million games on a system that interest you, you need to have that drive to play them or own them yourself. I\'m positive that with every console system released, there is at least 5 games for it that you would be very interested in. It doesn\'t have to be a generally liked game either, but as long as you like it, then the system is worth having. You brush the Saturn off as a 2D machine and claim that "casual gamers" bought the PS2. How the hell would you know that? You only got one game for the Saturn in its whole life span, I\'m betting you played no more then 10 games for it and you think that based on hype alone and it\'s 299 price tag, the PS2 sold well to the "casual gamers." I beg to differ sonny boy, but most casual gamers don\'t want to spend 299 on ANYTHING. They want the cheapest meat on the block and that\'s fact. Did you know that the PSOne\'s sales were it\'s greatest at the 149 and 99 price range? It\'s the same with the N64 as well.
Casual gamers want pretty games at a cheap price, no matter what that does to the gameplay. Go ahead and play Legend of Dragoon and see just how many copies that game sold. Go ahead and play FFTactics and see how many copies that game sold in comparison. It just goes to show that casual gamers want price, commercials, hype, and graphics moreso then anything else for any system. Hardcore gamers could give two craps about graphics or hype so long as the damn thing was fun. "Hey, I\'m EA and here\'s Madden2k2, an obviously inferior game to VC\'s NFL2k2. But since I have more commercials and am made by EA with the Madden franchise name in it, I will always sell more no matter what system I am on. I love my commercials."
I rest my case.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
The fact is, if you can\'t find games you like on ANY system, then you are
a)casual (not trying)
b)a fanboy against that company
c)not worthy to play that console.
So are you saying that if I don\'t like anything on the N64, I\'m one of those three choices?
a) I hated the N64, but I still consider myself to be a hardcore gamer. I love the PSX, Dreamcast, PS2, and I buy a lot of games for each of them. And believe me, I HAVE TRIED! I just can\'t stand the NES quality sound, the poor controller, the blurry graphics, and the whole kiddie feel to almost every game. I even hated Goldeneye because of it\'s blurry graphics, slow gameplay (especially in 4-player split-screen), and poor control (again, I hated the controller. The analog stick was crap.)
b) I used to love Nintendo until they made the N64. I might have something against Nintendo now because I grew up a little, and for the most part, Nintendo didn\'t. I am so sick of Mario (give me Sonic any day :)). I gave the N64 a chance, but when I realized that there was pretty much no progression in the games, I started to hate it. If you think about it, Mario 64 is still one of the N64\'s best games - which is kind of sad if you think about it.
c) Oh come on now. Do you really think anybody is not worthy to play the N64. ;) It was utter crap I tell you!
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Well, I know you are not a fanoby, nor imbecile.
There are some good games on N64, you have to admit it.
The controller sucks, the sound sucks, the grpahics are muddy abd foggy, and there are no RPGs or fighters, but there are a couple of good games.
Eric Jacob
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Altered, do you want to name some? Because I honestly cannot think of any that I liked. And what good is a console without fighters and RPGs?! :)
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Oh how I wish Sin and Punishment was available in the US. Also Fist, did you really hate Jet Force Gemini? Come on, that game was pretty neat.
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I\'ve never even heard of Jet Force Gemini. What kind of game was it? Because it sounds like a Starwars flying game, and I\'m not really into flying games.
I just thought of a game that I like on the N64. You guys are probably going to laugh, especially after what I said about the Nintendo being for kids. I love Mario Tennis. :D LOL, I\'m as shocked as you are. :) It really is a fun party game, and it isn\'t plagued with the problems that other multiplayer games had on the N64 (Super blurry textures, slow gameplay).
And Ryu, Sin and Punishment? Sounds interesting. Tell me more. :)
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It was longer, had Mode 7 \'3D\' bonus stages, redbook audio, time travel (neato!).
lmao, I cracked up when I read "neato" there for some reason.
Anyway..
I don\'t know how hardcore versus casual is determined. Myself, for example; I know a lot about the industry but rarely actually play the games themselves. Am I hardcore or casual?
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- It should be noted that Sonic CD is the most crtically acclaimed 2D Sonic game. Most Sega fans prefer it over all other Sonic\'s also.
- Jet Force Gemini was made by Rare, I believe. It was a shooter / action adventure game. Pretty fun actually.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
ALL of the games on Saturn or Dreamcast don\'t appeal to you?
We don\'t call that being casual or non-hardcore, we call that fanboyism. The fact is, if you can\'t find games you like on ANY system, then you are
a)casual (not trying)
b)a fanboy against that company
c)not worthy to play that console.
Eric Jacob
Hey I never said I didn\'t like dreamcast I got it first day it came out. But I did say I didn\'t like saturn. I just didn\'t like the way some of the saturn games looked. I mean at that time I thought psx offered the best games that I liked. I didn\'t like any of the games on 350 either. I mean you can\'t like every system. And I know there are times when you just cannot deny that a system rocks. I just don\'t think that was the case for saturn.
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Originally posted by Ryu
Even if it\'s just 1 game or a million games on a system that interest you, you need to have that drive to play them or own them yourself. I\'m positive that with every console system released, there is at least 5 games for it that you would be very interested in. It doesn\'t have to be a generally liked game either, but as long as you like it, then the system is worth having. You brush the Saturn off as a 2D machine and claim that "casual gamers" bought the PS2. How the hell would you know that? You only got one game for the Saturn in its whole life span, I\'m betting you played no more then 10 games for it and you think that based on hype alone and it\'s 299 price tag, the PS2 sold well to the "casual gamers." I beg to differ sonny boy, but most casual gamers don\'t want to spend 299 on ANYTHING. They want the cheapest meat on the block and that\'s fact. Did you know that the PSOne\'s sales were it\'s greatest at the 149 and 99 price range? It\'s the same with the N64 as well.
Casual gamers want pretty games at a cheap price, no matter what that does to the gameplay. Go ahead and play Legend of Dragoon and see just how many copies that game sold. Go ahead and play FFTactics and see how many copies that game sold in comparison. It just goes to show that casual gamers want price, commercials, hype, and graphics moreso then anything else for any system. Hardcore gamers could give two craps about graphics or hype so long as the damn thing was fun. "Hey, I\'m EA and here\'s Madden2k2, an obviously inferior game to VC\'s NFL2k2. But since I have more commercials and am made by EA with the Madden franchise name in it, I will always sell more no matter what system I am on. I love my commercials."
I rest my case.
I totally disagree with you. I mean graphics are what draws you into a game but if the gameplay sucks you ain\'t gonna buy it. I mean these days ppl are renting games before they buy them now. I mean we are not leaving in the 1980\'s of gaming this is 2001 gamers are much smarter. They spend there cash on crap they spend there on money games they thing appeal to them. Maybe legend of dragon is not everybodies game. I mean everyone does not like rpg\'s. Or even sports, FPS. I mean some games sell well because they appeal to others more. And the madden nf2k2 thing. I ppl who loves sports games are going to play madden and nfl2k2 it not a umm commercial thing. Any real sports fan will end up playing them both. I don\'t know why you think of casual gamer as some brainless losers. This is not 1970\'s gaming. PPl know what they want for there money. PPl buy what they like. If you would ask 500 ppl about games you would be suprised and what types of games they like. Everyone has different taste that is why there are 3 different console makers. But you need to stop characterizing like you do because ppl are not as dumb as your making them out to be. And lot times millions of kids who have system. Don\'t always have the luxery of getting all the games they want. I mean you have to consider that factor too. I mean everyone can\'t afford the some games. I mean some ppl may on be able to afford 1-3 games every 8months or so. I mean millions and millions of ppl now of just rent games all the time. Some ppl find that a 5 day rental is enough for them on some games. And I agree a lot of games are just good for a week rental. There are a lot of factors and I believe everything your saying is based upon old gaming ways. If you look around this is 2001 ppl are smarter and know what they are doing when it comes to their gaming experience.
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If you LOVE playing games, and devote a good chunk of your life to that, then you are Hardcore.
It matters not which system, or how many , but the sheer drive to play again and again, and devote hours of time on end, will determine your status.
You could have kids who just last week bought and played their first system, but if they are totally into it and live-to-play...they are now Hardcore.
By the same token, you could have a person who has every system since 79\' and hasn\'t played a game in a month... he, I submit, is NOT hardcore. (he just has a nice collection).
The bottom line: Hardcore is a fleeting term, that is so liquid that to even use it as a label is futile:)
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Originally posted by CygnusXI
The bottom line: Hardcore is a fleeting term, that is so liquid that to even use it as a label is futile:)
That\'s because that is what hardcore means!
Webster:
Hard-core (adjective) Hardcore (noun):
1. extremely resistant to solution or improvement. (a.k.a. futile)
2. being the most determined or dedicated mebers of a specified group.
3. containing explicit depictions of sexual acts.
So you see, it\'s not "liquid," it\'s what it meant to be hardcore in the first place!
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The definition of "hardcore" isn\'t in question it the definition of "HARDCORE GAMER " :laughing: . How does one measure his/her dedication toward gaming vs. anothers? What about people who PLAY EMULATORS?! Of all types and download these games..are they not hardcore?
Just an example, I have an SNES, NES, Genesis, GameBoy, and Neo-Geo Emualtors and ROMs. ( I\'d have more but its difficult getting some of them to work sometimes) I own and still play a PSX. I have Gaming Posters, I suscribe to a Video games magazine. I haven\'t bought a DC, PS2, and I don\'t think I\'ll be getting a GCN at launch, for economical reasons ( College sucks) AM I hardcore?
If Not what must I do to be hardcore? That I\'m NOT Doing already. DO you see the paradox formed by casual vs. hardcore? The only REAL FACT is that the influx of casual gamers tends to have a negative effect on Hardcore Gamers(ing).
A hardcore RPG player would\'ve bought FF7-9 w/out the CG commercials and FMV loaded ads on the Net. The Casual gamer..wouldn\'t have known FF7 from FFT w/out the commercials.
Which is why I said a Hardcore Gamer NEVER Stops playing. Back in 1994 what is called "The Drought" when video games began to be stagnant, Casual gamers would\'ve stopped or "Outgrown" games, Hardcore Gamers would\'ve kept playing despite what is being done around them. This is why I believe that hardcore gaming is only apparent to those who believe they are casual
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If you look around this is 2001 ppl are smarter and know what they are doing when it comes to their gaming experience.
That\'s pretty much your whole point and the fact is, that is simply not the case. Any gamer in here can tell you that brand names and commercials sell more games then anything else. For example, the 989 sports series on the PS2 sell incredibly well. Why is that? All the "hardcore" gamers know to avoid those things like the plague, but people have to buy them for their sales to go up. I leave that to the casual gamers who saw one commercial and bought a copy for themselves and their friends.
If you LOVE playing games, and devote a good chunk of your life to that, then you are Hardcore.
Exactly. Much more eloquent then my definition of hardcore, but I went into far more depth with the "Casual" gamer and thus the debate ensues...
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Sin and Punishment is a GREAT N64 title. It is made by the gurus at Treasure who made the heavenly Gunstar Heroes and undeniable champ of shooters, Radiant Silvergun.
I imported this game and it was well worth it.
I liked F-Zero-X alot when it came out, I don\'t know if that\'s your cup of tea, but I liked it.
Winback was a pretty good game.
Conkers has the best graphics in the 64/32 bit I have seen, no joke, they are simply great. and the games not too bad either.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by Ryu
That\'s pretty much your whole point and the fact is, that is simply not the case. Any gamer in here can tell you that brand names and commercials sell more games then anything else. For example, the 989 sports series on the PS2 sell incredibly well. Why is that? All the "hardcore" gamers know to avoid those things like the plague, but people have to buy them for their sales to go up. I leave that to the casual gamers who saw one commercial and bought a copy for themselves and their friends.
Exactly. Much more eloquent then my definition of hardcore, but I went into far more depth with the "Casual" gamer and thus the debate ensues...
Ryu that is so untrue I don\'t see how you can even say that 989 sports games sell all that good. The best selling sports game on ps is made bye ea. If 989 was doing so well they would have not been fired the first time. Ryu you speculating on those numbers no gamers are that stupid to buy into a crappy game like 989. You can ask any person who plays games 989 suck. That is rediculous 989 graphics suck and gameplay. I mean your graphical base point was killed bye you bringing up 989 because there graphics are weak. Commercial sells you mean FF,MGS,GT3. Which are all killer games. You are saying because everyone didn\'t buy a certain game you thought should have sold well that they don\'t know good games. HAHHAHA so now everyone has to agree on every single game not to be characatrized as a certain type of gamer. I am steal stripping that you had the nerve even mentioned 989. That is an insult to any gamer no matter what name you want to give them. And I find that to total bull and there is noway you can prove that because it is 100% false. You should not haven said that.
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Originally posted by Ryu
That\'s pretty much your whole point and the fact is, that is simply not the case. Any gamer in here can tell you that brand names and commercials sell more games then anything else. For example, the 989 sports series on the PS2 sell incredibly well. Why is that? All the "hardcore" gamers know to avoid those things like the plague, but people have to buy them for their sales to go up. I leave that to the casual gamers who saw one commercial and bought a copy for themselves and their friends.
Exactly. Much more eloquent then my definition of hardcore, but I went into far more depth with the "Casual" gamer and thus the debate ensues...
Here are some link to top selling games on ps2 and top selling video games. I want to kill your 989 talk right away because clearly they don\'t sell well when it comes to sports. And I would like to think that most of these top selling games got little advertising at especially the nintendo line up that sells wells. Some how nintendo fans now good nintendo game without advertising. I think most gamers do and you have your data confused. And big name franchises are the only games that get a lot of advertising so ryu please explain to me how you are coming up with your data.
http://www.playdateinc.com/playdate2000/videogames.htm
http://mb.vgdirectory.com/Chart-BestSellUS.htm
edit: Here is the t0p 50 selling games http://mb.vgdirectory.com/toptenDengeki.htm
I think gamers no what games they and until you prove bye some sort of link or something that those crappy games are selling big then your wrong.
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Its my belief that my big balls should be held EVERYNIGHT!
Err..., What I MEANT to say was, its my belief that the whole hardcore casual gamer line is getting narrower and narrower. Since games on a whole have been becoming more popular, its becoming more popular for people to do things that were only considered hardcore years ago. Things like read gaming magazines, go to websites devoted to games, and such. As people get into these things they learn more and more about games. I mean at what point does a casual gamer become "hardcore"? I think that in a few years the term harcore gamer will be the same as hardcore movie goer. It just wont exist and the amount that it does exist in will be so small.
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Originally posted by Faithdies
Its my belief that my big balls should be held EVERYNIGHT!
Err..., What I MEANT to say was, its my belief that the whole hardcore casual gamer line is getting narrower and narrower. Since games on a whole have been becoming more popular, its becoming more popular for people to do things that were only considered hardcore years ago. Things like read gaming magazines, go to websites devoted to games, and such. As people get into these things they learn more and more about games. I mean at what point does a casual gamer become "hardcore"? I think that in a few years the term harcore gamer will be the same as hardcore movie goer. It just wont exist and the amount that it does exist in will be so small.
i AGREE some what. PPl are trying to say that hardcore gamers no more about video games or know the best games. When they have noway of proven this because they can\'t. I mean you can\'t hardcore means something different in everyway you put it. Like a hardcore biker-I mean I would considered that a biker that knows more about biking than someone who likes the way they look. But as for hardcore gamer. I think it all blahh..and more blahh...You could be hardcore gamer because you play games at least 80hours a week and it may just be psx games or dreamcast games. Too say someone is not hardcore because they didn\'t get a system that you thought was kick ass. I mean you can\'t characterize a genre of ppl bast on the fact that you feel because something appeals to you and has great games too you makes you hardcore because you got it. I mean that stupid. And is rediculous for ppl to characterize hardcore and casual based game preference because that is what it is.
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First of all QuDDuS, there is this thing called the "Return" or "Enter" learn to use it. It is commonly used in writing for spacing out ideas and paragraphs.
That said, 989 games don\'t have to be int he top 10 or top 25 to be successful, when hundreds of games are released evry year and they still sell consistent, despite the fact that they are crap says something. I talked to several people in my school last year, at the beginning and they said that they loved the new March Madness or whatever it is called basketball game for PS2.
Casual gamers don\'t know if something is better than another product if they only see a commercial for one of the products, versus another, they will buy the commercialed one.
Sure EA had that "Kickus maximus buttimus ad with all the sports in there, but that add was not funny and not impressive. The 989 ads were funny (some of them) and showed gameplay.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
First of all QuDDuS, there is this thing called the "Return" or "Enter" learn to use it. It is commonly used in writing for spacing out ideas and paragraphs.
That said, 989 games don\'t have to be int he top 10 or top 25 to be successful, when hundreds of games are released evry year and they still sell consistent, despite the fact that they are crap says something. I talked to several people in my school last year, at the beginning and they said that they loved the new March Madness or whatever it is called basketball game for PS2.
Casual gamers don\'t know if something is better than another product if they only see a commercial for one of the products, versus another, they will buy the commercialed one.
Sure EA had that "Kickus maximus buttimus ad with all the sports in there, but that add was not funny and not impressive. The 989 ads were funny (some of them) and showed gameplay.
Eric Jacob
Ok first of all your basing your whole idea off of some kids in your class. Second I showed you 989 sports is not in the t0p 50 it may be in the top 200 maybe 198 or something. But fact is 989 sports does not sell better than ea. Second few liked the 989 college basketball games is because it\'s the only one you can get on ps2. The commercial for it where wack. And as I have shown the game didn\'t sell well. I mean if your going to say the game sold well show me a link where the game sold good. You can\'t find one. And I wish you would stop saying "Casual gamers don\'t know if something is better than another product if they only see a commercial for one of the products". Do you obvisously believe ppl don\'t shop video games in stores. OMG you guys are saying a lot of things that the facts don\'t prove. Just think about it. Do you know how many million of ppl rent games. I mean different types of games.
Here is a link to top rented games in january
http://mb.vgdirectory.com/game062301.htm
Link to top rented games in april
http://www.gamesmania.com/news.asp?Action=2674
Link to top rented games in july
http://www.pokemonvillage.com/shownews.asp?id_=8177
Basicly what I am trying to say is ppl are renting games like never before. They are not just going out and waisting there money anymore. I mean you and ryu make good points, but they don\'t apply to gaming now of days. Beause ppl have gotten more wiser and smarter about gaming. I mean if what you where saying was true then the game sales and rentals would speak for you. But you two are not going to find anything that backs up what your saying about gamers.
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uggghhh. Gimme a break.
Eric Jacob
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I mean if what you where saying was true then the game sales and rentals would speak for you. But you two are not going to find anything that backs up what your saying about gamers.
Back up what? My opinion? I bet you consider yourself to be a casual gamer don\'t you, which is why you are having the hard time of accepting the fact that just about every casual gamer buys into hype moreso then anything else on Earth. Face it, commercials sell, 989 has Sony backed money for commercials, the Bouncer sells well, the Army Men series sells well, and so does Mark Kate and Ashley Olsen games. You think hardcore gamers run out to stores and buy into that crap? You\'re deluded, buddy. The hard part now is for you to come to terms and accept the fact that the world is one sh|tty retarded place despite just how intelligent you CLAIM it to be. I don\'t think you can find a link to backup any "claim" to say so otherwise.
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Originally posted by Ryu
Back up what? My opinion? I bet you consider yourself to be a casual gamer don\'t you, which is why you are having the hard time of accepting the fact that just about every casual gamer buys into hype moreso then anything else on Earth. Face it, commercials sell, 989 has Sony backed money for commercials, the Bouncer sells well, the Army Men series sells well, and so does Mark Kate and Ashley Olsen games. You think hardcore gamers run out to stores and buy into that crap? You\'re deluded, buddy. The hard part now is for you to come to terms and accept the fact that the world is one sh|tty retarded place despite just how intelligent you CLAIM it to be. I don\'t think you can find a link to backup any "claim" to say so otherwise.
No I don\'t get into names of gamers. I have been playing games all mylife. I have had 15 systems total sum which where unknown japan systems. I just consider myself someone who loves to play great games. And you are saying ppl running out and buying army men and 989 sports. Well yeah they may sell 1 or 2 copies but never enough that make it a successful game. If you think I\'m wrong show me some 989 game figures. They don\'t crack the top 50 most sold ps2 games. Because they don\'t have successful franchises. Only reason they even where brought back because of sony I guess you don\'t remember they where fired?
And I guess you don\'t remember everyone over hear shouting how good the bouncer was going to be til the day it came out and eveyone played it. And some ppl do buy games for commercials, but wack games do not sell big no matter how much advertisment is put into them. ALA the bouncer. Just check the sales figures of the top ps2 games of 2000. I can assure you the bouncer,gameday, and nba shootout are nowhere to be seen.
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Quess Qwhat Quddus? you\'re an idiot. I can safely say.
You want me to show you why?
There are tons of Army Men games out there. Why would they still make game after game of Army Man if it didn\'t sell? There is no logic to that. If it makes money (ie: sells games) they make more. Not if they are losing money by putting out Army Men games.
and 989 games won\'t be in the top because they only made like 2 PS2 games in 2000 for PS2. and some of their sports games came out THIS year, because that is what happens with Baseball and such. And Bouncer sold tremendously in America and Japan first week. 200k in Japan. and you know what kind of people buy games first day without knowing a drop about them? fanboys and casual gamers. It had pretty graphics and the Square logo on it, of coruse people will buy the game. Do you honestly think people rented Bouncer, beat it in 15 minutes then said "Wow! I gotta get this game!" No.
you\'re argument is going down the crapper.
Eric Jacob
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didn\'t Bouncer come out THIS year?
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Quess Qwhat Quddus? you\'re an idiot. I can safely say.
You want me to show you why?
There are tons of Army Men games out there. Why would they still make game after game of Army Man if it didn\'t sell? There is no logic to that. If it makes money (ie: sells games) they make more. Not if they are losing money by putting out Army Men games.
and 989 games won\'t be in the top because they only made like 2 PS2 games in 2000 for PS2. and some of their sports games came out THIS year, because that is what happens with Baseball and such. And Bouncer sold tremendously in America and Japan first week. 200k in Japan. and you know what kind of people buy games first day without knowing a drop about them? fanboys and casual gamers. It had pretty graphics and the Square logo on it, of coruse people will buy the game. Do you honestly think people rented Bouncer, beat it in 15 minutes then said "Wow! I gotta get this game!" No.
you\'re argument is going down the crapper.
Eric Jacob
AND why would they make a tales from the cript movie sequal when the first one bomb at the theater? Why would FiLa keep making gym shoes when everyone knows they are plaid? And why would james brown keep singing when nobody wants to see him sing anymore? Why would Chris Rock starr in 2 crappy movies back to back? Why would adam sadler make a crappy movie that bombed like little nicky? You see how stupid that sounds. Why ask why? I can\'t explain why the would and 989 sports games where out in 2000 buddy. Madden sure sold well. You know why because it did not suck as much as gameday did.
And you brought up square sales figures in japan. I mean buy now don\'t you know that square is a god in japan. And any game that looks good with the name square is going to clean up in japan. I thought you would even know this. You would be surprise how many ppl subsrcibe to game magazines these days. I mean you are offered free subscriptions for purchasing certain games and signing up with funcoland. So I think through advertising and good pr moves that more ppl are starting to get more in depth when it comes to gaming. And if your going to sit here and debate 989 studio games selling well. Then that is pretty weak. I mean you can ask 1000 gamers about 989 and they will all say they suck. And 989 games don\'t show up in top game sales are not in top 50. Does not that show you that 989 is not that popular? They where fired once and will be again. And when you GOT sony backing you then. You can afford to lose money. I mean take this for example. Ted Turner owned wcw and from 1998 up until the day he sold them they lost him money. Ppl said he should have sold them years ago. But he was a billionare and he was losing maybe 15-20 million off it and when your a billionare that amount does not matter. Plus he has stake in Warner bro\'s so in bussiness those things go buy. But sooner or later it comes to and end and wcw was fired. Why did they keep wcw around if it was losing him money? WHY ASK WHY? Do you study bussiness? I mean sony has invested money into 989 and maybe they think sooner or later 989 has to get it right. But why ask why? That just how big companies run business, but sooner or later the slow selling divison is kicked off. I mean look at GM with oldsmobile. Slow slumping sells for the past years and finally they decide to stop making oldsmobiles. I mean I can\'t explain it, but that just how it is in bussiness.
And my argument is going crapper. Well thank for thosw words of wisdom. At least I have attempted prove what I am saying and not just basing things off my own opinions. I am still waiting on something that shows 989 is selling well. Because every link I posted for games sells. I just can\'t seem to find 989 anywhere.
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There you go you idiot.
Learn to actually back up your crap before you SAY it!
http://www.iemag.com/trsts/monthly/lookuptrsts.asp?id=8&date=3/1/01
Bouncer was number 2 in March, in AMERICA for PS2.
and it was the NUMBER 3 game overall that month.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
There you go you idiot.
Learn to actually back up your crap before you SAY it!
http://www.iemag.com/trsts/monthly/lookuptrsts.asp?id=8&date=3/1/01
Bouncer was number 2 in March, in AMERICA for PS2.
and it was the NUMBER 3 game overall that month.
Eric Jacob
Well when you can\'t back up what you say you result to name calling huh? Well I won\'t even play that childish game with you. Because it is uncalled for. And I was not disputing your square info. If you read what I said I was talking about how you mention square in japan I never said anything about square in USA. So I don\'t know why you even bothered to bring this link up. I was talking about your so called army men and 989 sports claim. Try backing those two up buddy.
And backing up. Well I have posted links in my prevous post backing up and disputing the things you say.
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And you are saying ppl running out and buying army men and 989 sports. Well yeah they may sell 1 or 2 copies but never enough that make it a successful game. If you think I\'m wrong show me some 989 game figures. They don\'t crack the top 50 most sold ps2 games. Because they don\'t have successful franchises. Only reason they even where brought back because of sony I guess you don\'t remember they where fired?
If the Army Men games and the 989 games sold so damn terribly, then why are they made for nearly every damn system? Obviously, there is a market for them and they are successful enough for the many spin-offs and sequels they have had to have even more sequels and more spin-offs. A company does not continue a franchise if it completely dies and doesn\'t sell anything at all.
Tekken was never in the top 20 for PSX games sold, yet that game has had what, 5 versions? Ace Combat is never in the top 30, but they are going on 5 versions as well. Street Fighter is also a victim of this rarely ever making it into the top 50 in games sold, but those suckers have had what? 20 different versions? Army Men has had what, 3 sequels for each version of army men across nearly every platform? What does all this information show? That there is a considerable audience for each of these games and even though they will never make it into the top 50 charts, the games will always be made for those who buy them. I don\'t need a chart to back that up either.
And I guess you don\'t remember everyone over hear shouting how good the bouncer was going to be til the day it came out and eveyone played it. And some ppl do buy games for commercials, but wack games do not sell big no matter how much advertisment is put into them. ALA the bouncer. Just check the sales figures of the top ps2 games of 2000. I can assure you the bouncer,gameday, and nba shootout are nowhere to be seen.
The bouncer did come out in 2001.
There are more Army Games in the making and this demonstrates my point exactly. Why continue to make sequels if the games don\'t sell? The answer that you seem to be ignoring: they do sell well, period. Maybe not to the limited 100 people you talk to, but they do to the 100,000 (or maybe even 50,000) people who buy them. I guess your circle of 100 people is just far too limited in their gaming preferences.
And my argument is going crapper. Well thank for thosw words of wisdom. At least I have attempted prove what I am saying and not just basing things off my own opinions. I am still waiting on something that shows 989 is selling well. Because every link I posted for games sells. I just can\'t seem to find 989 anywhere.
Your arguements above are mostly null. The videogame industry, the movie industry, and the shoe (wtf?) industry are all totally different things. Fact of the matter is, so long as the companies are in business, they are obviously selling their product to some people and that is abou the only similarity between all those companies and industries listed above.
3DO makes the worst games, flopped a console launch, and pumps out Army Men after Army Men game and still have enough money to stay in business. There has to be profits in there SOMEWHERE to stay afloat, especially in this unstable market.
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yup, Bouncer came out in March of 2001.
and NBA Shootout, another game he listed, came out in February 2001.
It isn\'t childish name calling if YOU just don\'t get it. I have put up sales figures and you shrug them off as not arguing about those, alothugh the quote Ryu JUST put up, shows that you WERE talking about Bouncer, which is why I looked for it.
I am sorry, you aren\'t an idiot. you are ignorant, it really isn\'t your fault, you are a product of massmedia.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by Ryu
If the Army Men games and the 989 games sold so damn terribly, then why are they made for nearly every damn system? Obviously, there is a market for them and they are successful enough for the many spin-offs and sequels they have had to have even more sequels and more spin-offs. A company does not continue a franchise if it completely dies and doesn\'t sell anything at all.
Tekken was never in the top 20 for PSX games sold, yet that game has had what, 5 versions? Ace Combat is never in the top 30, but they are going on 5 versions as well. Street Fighter is also a victim of this rarely ever making it into the top 50 in games sold, but those suckers have had what? 20 different versions? Army Men has had what, 3 sequels for each version of army men across nearly every platform? What does all this information show? That there is a considerable audience for each of these games and even though they will never make it into the top 50 charts, the games will always be made for those who buy them. I don\'t need a chart to back that up either.
The bouncer did come out in 2001.
There are more Army Games in the making and this demonstrates my point exactly. Why continue to make sequels if the games don\'t sell? The answer that you seem to be ignoring: they do sell well, period. Maybe not to the limited 100 people you talk to, but they do to the 100,000 (or maybe even 50,000) people who buy them. I guess your circle of 100 people is just far too limited in their gaming preferences.
Your arguements above are mostly null. The videogame industry, the movie industry, and the shoe (wtf?) industry are all totally different things. Fact of the matter is, so long as the companies are in business, they are obviously selling their product to some people and that is abou the only similarity between all those companies and industries listed above.
3DO makes the worst games, flopped a console launch, and pumps out Army Men after Army Men game and still have enough money to stay in business. There has to be profits in there SOMEWHERE to stay afloat, especially in this unstable market.
RYU i already spoke on the army men thing so I won\'t back paddle on that. But how can you compare a game like army men to sf. I mean the fact that you two are wasting time about games like army men. I mean there are tons and tons of crappy games on psx that had sequals. And from the looks of 989 and army men games they don\'t put a lot of money into the games. So I assume selling 20,000 copies would suffice them.
And altered I don\'t buy into hype. I buy into games. I have never spent my money on a game I saw on tv. I don\'t work my ass off and pay my bills to waste my money on crappy games. I will not even buy a game unless it is a known AAA killer or I have researched the game enough and rented to know if it sucks. So I would appreciate if you would not characterize me like you have done.
All I was doing is trying to speak for tons and tons of gamers I come accross all the time. Who seem to know more about gaming than ppl in forums believe they know.
And ryu the gym shoe thing only applied to the bussiness practice of the company that related to what was spoken.
Like why would this shoe company keep making shoes if they know all there shoes suck. Or why would ben and jerry make a black jelly been icecream when they know nobody likes that flavor. Icecream and gym shoes may not be the same thing but the way I mentioned them in the sentence they have simular point of vews.
I mean both you and ryu make good points. And I felt I make good points too. I agree with a lot of what you too are saying, but I don\'t agree on the way you characterize gamers. And the debate went all south and went to name calling when the characterizing of gamers is always I was trying to discuss and come to some type of understanding.
Oh yeah and altered I was speaking on square in japan not usa I never said anything about square as far as usa. If I agree with what you said but I just worded if differently. I mean square is god in japan so who would not expect a game with shiny graphics from square to sell big. And he same goes for square in the US. That\'s sad but true.
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that last post up you WERE still talkng about Army Men games, but now that Ryu has disputed your fact (as I did before his, just not as NICELY) you change your argument. This is getting tiresome. All I know is, I came out the winner of this argument and you learned how to put spaces in your thoughts! Yay for everyone!
uggghhh. I give up.
Eric Jacob
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*sigh*
RYU i already spoke on the army men thing so I won\'t back paddle on that. But how can you compare a game like army men to sf. I mean the fact that you two are wasting time about games like army men. I mean there are tons and tons of crappy games on psx that had sequals. And from the looks of 989 and army men games they don\'t put a lot of money into the games. So I assume selling 20,000 copies would suffice them.
No one was comparing Army Men to Street Fighter. I was showing that sales figures on a top 50 list mean absolutely nothing. 3DO does not need to make a game that is widely excepted by hardcore gamers to sell well. As long as they have their Army Men commercials and casual gamers buying them, they will make money. I don\'t get why this is so hard for you to understand.
Or why would ben and jerry make a black jelly been icecream when they know nobody likes that flavor. Icecream and gym shoes may not be the same thing but the way I mentioned them in the sentence they have simular point of vews.
There is obviously an audience for them. You may not see it, but it\'s there and that\'s why those flavors\\brands are produced. It\'s impossible to make the generalization that "nobody like these things" from the 100 people you talk to or no. There are 6 billion people on this Earth and to say not one of them, or even 100,000,000 of them don\'t like black jelly bean ice cream is an incredibly idiotic fallacy. There is no way for you to know how the general public acts at all towards what you and your 100 contacts like or dislike. That\'s about as accurate as an internet poll conducted about a Sony practice on a Nintendo site.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
that last post up you WERE still talkng about Army Men games, but now that Ryu has disputed your fact (as I did before his, just not as NICELY) you change your argument. This is getting tiresome. All I know is, I came out the winner of this argument and you learned how to put spaces in your thoughts! Yay for everyone!
uggghhh. I give up.
Eric Jacob
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Well looking at it from a different point of view. I say we all brought up interesting things. I agree with some and others I find are not true. I mean this a debate forum and at the end there is no need to call eachother names or fight about it.
And I don\'t see how you won:laughing: And I agree with some of what ryu said. I don\'t see nothing wrong with that. But I still believe what I said about gamers. I mean it is kind of in the middle. And you have to have open mind when it comes to gaming and especially debating about it. And I believe that is what I done. I agreed with a lot of what you said before too altered. But I guess you where so mad aboUT what I said about saturn you over looked it.
And as for changing my mind. I just thought about what ryu said and he had some good points. Whats the big deal altered. I mean if you are so closed minded that you can\'t listen and learn from what ppl say then that\'s sad.(this is just a general statement)
And altered I type 60wpm and some times I speed through my post and make mistakes. Is that ok with you?
And I accept your apology for calling me a product of mass market. When as dedicated to gaming as I am. And all the time and money and effort I have put into gaming i found that statement very offending. Because I have never in my life bought into hype. And when it comes to my gaming I am very serious about it and put in lots of effort to find what is the best content I can buy.
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anyone with the IQ of over 100 could look at this argument and would say "huh?"
First, they would laugh as you put forth arguments that make no sense ("Bouncer and NBA Shootout are not on any PS2 lists for 2000" duh! released in 2001)
Then they would cry as you try hard to keep cramming a new perspective down our collective throat covering your @$$ as you make all kinds of errors both in spelling, grammar, and fact/ point wise.
I don\'t get mad at people who think Saturn sucked, I laugh at them, like I am laughing at you for your past 6 or 7 posts. And if you didn\'t notice, Ryu said your points were, let\'s see, how did he say it...oh "an incredibly idiotic fallacy" In simpler terms, DUMB.
BTW, if you type 60 wpm (BS) and make all kinds of grammatical and spelling mistakes, then it is pointless, any typing teacher or employerer will tell you that. BTW, I think there is an automatic spell checker you can use on here, it may help you, I haven\'t used it so I can\'t say for sure, but give it a try.
You keep changing the subject and we may have another 16 page thread here. It worked for Bossieman and gang.
edit I never apologized, and if I did, it was meant in jest, sorry if you thought otherwise.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by Ryu
*sigh*
No one was comparing Army Men to Street Fighter. I was showing that sales figures on a top 50 list mean absolutely nothing. 3DO does not need to make a game that is widely excepted by hardcore gamers to sell well. As long as they have their Army Men commercials and casual gamers buying them, they will make money. I don\'t get why this is so hard for you to understand.
There is obviously an audience for them. You may not see it, but it\'s there and that\'s why those flavors\\brands are produced. It\'s impossible to make the generalization that "nobody like these things" from the 100 people you talk to or no. There are 6 billion people on this Earth and to say not one of them, or even 100,000,000 of them don\'t like black jelly bean ice cream is an incredibly idiotic fallacy. There is no way for you to know how the general public acts at all towards what you and your 100 contacts like or dislike. That\'s about as accurate as an internet poll conducted about a Sony practice on a Nintendo site.
OMG that ben and jerry thing was just a metaphor. Thats all and nothing else. I just used the b&j thing. I was trying to get a point accross. Well I guess you just missed that whole thing. And the army men thing is just stupid. And that is nothing to argue about because your not understadig where I am coming from. And it\'s just getting bad because what I am actually saying is totally different that how your recieving it. And well I do a lot of work down at michigan state,WMU,EMU because some time I work with my brother in law when I have free time. And I speak to tons and tons of college kids from those schools. And I am not trying to chacracterize them as the entire gaming world. Just as you cannot characterize the entire gaming world bye what you have been saying ryu.
Well I listen and agree with some of what you and altered said. Even though everything I said was taken out of content. And even though none of us can speak for the entire gaming marke we tried to. I took points from what both of you said and I think I learned from them. I just hate that my words where twisted and this debate went off about army men which is not even worth either of are times. It is kinda of :laughing: funny us arguing over a crappy game like army men.
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Well I listen and agree with some of what you and altered said. Even though everything I said was taken out of content. And even though none of us can speak for the entire gaming marke we tried to. I took points from what both of you said and I think I learned from them. I just hate that my words where twisted and this debate went off about army men which is not even worth either of are times. It is kinda of funny us arguing over a crappy game like army men.
Altered and I both took your words to mean the exact same things and you obviously did not object until this post. Strange how we suddenly don\'t understand 30 replies into the arguement, but we understood it 29 posts in even though the same exact things are being repeated, only reworded.
As for the ice cream thing, I know it was an analogy, an incredibly faltered one, just like your analogy about foot wear and videogames sharing traits. I knew it was an analogy, I meremly built on it and explained how that anaolgy was both wrong and yet supported my view moreso then your own. That\'s not my fault, I didn\'t bring up different industries to support my arguement, but I\'ll be damned if I won\'t take advantage of them if someone else brings them up.
And the Army Men games, the point was, which is something you obviously missed, was that sh|tty games, even Army Men games, can still sell well to a mass community who trusts commercials and hype moreso then anything else. What do I call those people? Casual Gamers. I never lost my objectivity of the arguement, but you simply forgot the topic. My points still stand that crappy games can still sell well to those who are misinformed and trust flashy commercials over hard fact. It doesn\'t take a rocket scientist to see that things that sell well or are accepted through a certain market will be remade in many different ways to gain even MORE financial support. it\'s simple business practices. I\'m sorry you don\'t understand that.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
anyone with the IQ of over 100 could look at this argument and would say "huh?"
First, they would laugh as you put forth arguments that make no sense ("Bouncer and NBA Shootout are not on any PS2 lists for 2000" duh! released in 2001)
Then they would cry as you try hard to keep cramming a new perspective down our collective throat covering your @$$ as you make all kinds of errors both in spelling, grammar, and fact/ point wise.
I don\'t get mad at people who think Saturn sucked, I laugh at them, like I am laughing at you for your past 6 or 7 posts. And if you didn\'t notice, Ryu said your points were, let\'s see, how did he say it...oh "an incredibly idiotic fallacy" In simpler terms, DUMB.
BTW, if you type 60 wpm (BS) and make all kinds of grammatical and spelling mistakes, then it is pointless, any typing teacher or employerer will tell you that. BTW, I think there is an automatic spell checker you can use on here, it may help you, I haven\'t used it so I can\'t say for sure, but give it a try.
You keep changing the subject and we may have another 16 page thread here. It worked for Bossieman and gang.
edit I never apologized, and if I did, it was meant in jest, sorry if you thought otherwise.
Eric Jacob
Well it is kind of sad you see things that way. And feel that your own views point towards heavenly goodness. You have no right to be little anyone for you are no smarter and don\'t know anymore than anyone else. You can\'t prove anything you said. You don\'t know any of the numbers for none of those games so all your doing is going on what you believe.
And i NEVEr BROUGT up army men. I spok of 989 sports game gameday which came out in 2000. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BOUNCER AND ARMY MEN COMING OUT IN 2000. SO I DON\'T KNOW WHY you keep bringing that up. And it is a shame someone cannot even debate without resorting to name calling which really questions how mature you are. I mean to even post something like that is just rude and so disrepectful. There is a level of respect and maturety that should be maintained. And for someone too do what you do have done. Just proves that you have either. I guess I am very pissed off because I never resorted to calling you names niether did I TWIST YOU Words or put words in your mouth. I tried to agree and only bring up things I disputed. But you wanted to keep bring that damn army men thing up. I could careless about 3d0. But I would never just come out and be so disrespected. Well I guess you have shown me that you are very disrespected and could give a rats ass about anyones opinions or thoughts.
AND ryu I may have missed point. HEll I am not perfect. I don\'t everything. I have been playing games ever since I was 5 and I AM 21 now. And I have owned 15 systems. And I am always learing something new in gaming. That is one purpose of the forum. Too enlighten misconceptions we have and learn things about gaming we may not now. Nobody in gaming is perfect but for altered to ****y, rude and disrespected like that is just plain awful.
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One thing. If casual gamers know a good game when there is one out. Why is it one of the best PSone games and the BEST fighting game on the Psone didn\'t sell well? I\'m talkin\' about Tobal No 1, a game regarded highly by critics and the so called \'hardcore\'. Yet, it didn\'t sell much, \'cept to the \'hardcore\' and due to that we never saw Tobal No 2 on US shelves.
Why? Was it maybe because 1) The graphics was not that impressive. It ran at 60fps, but due to that the characters was extremely blocky and simple or 2) because it wasn\'t a well known franchise?
Either way, it is because the \'casual\' gamer didn\'t care about it.
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Case Closed.
Right there in Black and White (a cliche but true)
If you know games, truly good games, you\'re hardcore
If commercials mean jack Sh!t to you, all you care about is the game itself, you\'re hardcore.
If you\'ve played the NES and SNES FF\'s that didn\'t come to the US, thou art hardcore. ( I had to throw that in ).
I believe there are two reasons why sequels are made:
1. ) Sells Well.
2. ) Great Reviews.
Tobal No. 1....sold well in Japan, good reviews. Sequel Tobal 2.
HOWEVER, did Tobal No. 1 sell well in America..not really, good reviews OF COURSE. But..No American Sequel.
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Originally posted by GenjuroKibagani
Case Closed.
Right there in Black and White (a cliche but true)
If you know games, truly good games, you\'re hardcore
If commercials mean jack Sh!t to you, all you care about is the game itself, you\'re hardcore.
If you\'ve played the NES and SNES FF\'s that didn\'t come to the US, thou art hardcore. ( I had to throw that in ).
I believe there are two reasons why sequels are made:
1. ) Sells Well.
2. ) Great Reviews.
Tobal No. 1....sold well in Japan, good reviews. Sequel Tobal 2.
HOWEVER, did Tobal No. 1 sell well in America..not really, good reviews OF COURSE. But..No American Sequel.
Yes, Tobal No 1 sold well in Japan. But it did not sell well in other countries, therefor the sequel did not leave Japan. For a simple reason, it lacked the stuff (graphics, franchise) to sell well to the casual gamer.
Which proves my point. Casual gamers don\'t know what they want for the most part. Some do. But most buy franchises and stuff based off commercials or the game that has the best graphics and catches their eyes.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Just check the sales figures of the top ps2 games of 2000. I can assure you the bouncer,gameday, and nba shootout are nowhere to be seen.
do you see YOUR name in there? In the quote right above THESE words?
Originally posted by QuDDus
And i NEVEr BROUGT up army men. I spok of 989 sports game gameday which came out in 2000. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BOUNCER AND ARMY MEN COMING OUT IN 2000. SO I DON\'T KNOW WHY you keep bringing that up. And it is a shame someone cannot even debate without resorting to name calling which really questions how mature you are.
oh, you NEVER brought up Bouncer or anything like that? Are you sure? I only make fun of you because I can, I really don\'t make fun of that many people when I argue with them, it is just that you are such a horrible arguer, it is fun to throw them in there. You keep lying and saying you were never talking about things, then I GO BACK and quote your stupid crap and, hmmmmm, looks liek you were LYING.
Didn\'t I say I give up? you are hopeless.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
do you see YOUR name in there? In the quote right above THESE words?
oh, you NEVER brought up Bouncer or anything like that? Are you sure? I only make fun of you because I can, I really don\'t make fun of that many people when I argue with them, it is just that you are such a horrible arguer, it is fun to throw them in there. You keep lying and saying you were never talking about things, then I GO BACK and quote your stupid crap and, hmmmmm, looks liek you were LYING.
Didn\'t I say I give up? you are hopeless.
Eric Jacob
Well you know what you are such a immature kid. You keep bringing this crap up when I have already tried to quash this mess. I mean why? What enjoyment do you get out trying to keep this mess going on. I mean you skip through my whole post which I was trying to squash all this name calling and nonsense. Just so you can find something to throw your rude and uncalled for comment in. That is damn sad.
You should put more time into trying to be mature and stop acting like a immature baby. I just have nothing for ppl who have no respect. And If I said nba shoot out in my post well excuse me. I did not even bring that up in the first place. Why don\'t you quote my links to the top selling games in january 2001 when shootout came out. Why because all you wanna do is keep this crap going on. And I first started speaking of gameday and you started throwing in other games. You do know gameday was out in 2000 and that is why I brought it up. I am done finished and tired of this because you are just to immature. You have know respect. And person that has no respect is just a little boy who needs to grow up.
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Shootout came out in February, idiot.
Eric Jacob
PS: do I make you mad?