PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Chrono on July 31, 2001, 07:57:45 PM
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Remember the PS2 launch?
What about the XBOX launch?
How many people will be disappointed in the console?
Will people be destroying them in the street?
Will it be all over the news?
Could the hype severally backfire?
People will see and hear about the PS2 games that look better and play better then XBOX games. People will see and hear about the NGC games that look better and play better then XBOX games.
MS has touted a system 3 times more powerful.
Yet, the ps2 has many games, which look better then any game on the system,
The ps2 was in a similar situation during its launch, but was not hit as hard, because the only competition was DC.
TTT, SSX looked better then most stuff, if not all stuff on the DC.
The ps2 had the hype to get the system out there, and the PSX behind it.
However, unlike the ps2, the XBOX has no system before it, also the NGC and PS2 against it. The XBOX does not have a game to show that’s better then any ps2 game or NGC Game. Compared to the few million DC the PS2 was up against, XBOX is up against 20 million consoles. Making the DC total look like Childs play.
Meaning, if they hype backfires.. MS does not have the cushion that Sony had.
On TOP of all of that, one of the consoles is 100 dollars cheaper, the other likely 50 cheaper.
How much will the backlash be?
The public is expecting the next coming of god they will get a system that has the worst looking games
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come on Chrono, don\'t you ever have even an inkling of guilt for trampling the hopes of people everywhere? :)
The X-Box launch will be fantasmagoric IMO. THey don\'t have a Japanese launch before it to steal all the consoles and meory cards away from us. And I believe, like Sega, MS will be on top of proper distribution. I worked in a game store during the PS2 launch, and let me say that Sony did worse than I imagine anyone will ever do before. You can\'t deliver that kind of hype that not deliver, tangible or otherwise.
I have not seen a racing game on PS2 that looks better than Project Gotham. Or a (gulp) 3D fighter that looks better than DOA3. There are other examples. Plus, X-Box will hopefully convine many PC users to buy one and will have that behind them.
BTW, you don\'t know how ANY of the games will play, so we gotta reserve judgment til the console comes out and is in my hands.
X-Box will sell extremely well on launch, not as much of a frenzie as PS2, but will still sell enough to make any new guy in the industry proud.
I already prefer X-Box to the other 2 already, just because they are doing a well-thought out online plan and they have many legacy Sega titles on the way, so says Peter Moore.
Eric Jacob
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The xbox will have 500,000 in the USA, and 300,000 in Canada
Assuming.. they meet projections
Thats not much more then the ps2 had, there will be shortages if they hype is as large as I think
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Dreamcast sold 400k in 4 days. X-Box with little hype in the mass public, where as were seeing Dreamcast commercials way early for DC, should sell out, but not in sell-out frenzy. They have 3 months, I am sure they can produce more than 800k.
Eric Jacob
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Actually, 800K is their proposed launch numbers. No more, no less. I hope they do well launch, I really do. I do however wonder if that 11-01-01 rumored release date change is true. Almost looks like a rip off of Sega\'s 9-9-99 relase date they had.
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Altered, you ignoreing the 500 million dollars of hype MS is spending
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Doesnt matter to me, I only see benefits of moving the date up to counteract Nintendo putting their\'s 3 days before, now MS will be before.
This may help even things out a little. I know I can still get my X-Box, then have time laterr to go to Best Buy and harass the kiddies waiting in line for GC. :)
Eric Jacob
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I don\'t count things I can\'t see, Chrono. I havent seen a TV spot, mainstream mag ad, or newspaper pressing.
Eric Jacob
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TESTIFY CHRONO...i have been saying the exact same things that you just stated for weeks (and then some :))
Backlash shouldnt be too badly...people have another two consoles to fall back on, rather than having to wait for the AAA games, PS2 and GC will have their share
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Gee, I sure wish I could borrow your crystalballs, mine seems to be defect right now.
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Originally posted by Samwise
Gee, I sure wish I could borrow your crystalballs, mine seems to be defect right now.
Your\'s too? I\'ll be damned. I thought it was just mine that went out.
TTT, SSX looked better then most stuff, if not all stuff on the DC.
heh. Tekken Tag looked better then Soul Calibur? I thought we debated this before. I still think Soul Calibur looks 10x better. SSX was good, \'cept for some slowdown.
\'
People will see and hear about the NGC games that look better and play better then XBOX games.
You assume the games will look and play better. While, I am more inclined to give you that they look better from the videos I have saw. You can not say that they play better. Same with your PS2 comment.
The XBOX does not have a game to show that’s better then any ps2 game or NGC Game.
Depends on what genre you are into. DOA3 will most certainly impress people if MS does get the demo units out in stores before launch. The same applies to OddWorld.
Will people be destroying them in the street?
I truly doubt it. Who will pay $300 for a system to destroy them in the street? ;)
Yet, the ps2 has many games, which look better then any game on the system,
From the videos and what I saw at the MS Expo, there is nothing on the PS2 that compares to DOA3 or Project Gotham Racing. That is just my opinion. Will that be enough to sell the system? Who knows. The DOA series is popular for some weird reason ( I hate it.) . So, I am sure that will sell some units. Project Gotham Racing isn\'t a launch game though, I don\'t believe.
The public is expecting the next coming of god they will get a system that has the worst looking games
What? The public is expecting "the next coming of God"? Where did you get this? The Xbox doesn\'t even have that much hype. As for your comment about "worst looking games". This is your OPINION. Your opinion doesn\'t speak for the masses. We will have to wait until demo units arrive in stores and then see how bad the games are or how good they are.
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I don\'t think that Xbox will have any backlash...
I think most of the launch content will be up to par or surpassing PS2 games. DOA3 and Munch just to name 2! Then games like Panzer Dragoon 3 (this is the next coming of god!), Malice, Jet Grind Radio Future, Project Ego, Project Gotham, etc. will come out and keep the image of a very powerful system.
NGC will be nice looking (wave race, luigi, starfox) but won\'t hoard gamers away from Xbox. I think all three systems will have a very nice christmas and by the end of 2002 we will be able to tell who got it right.
Any by the way, Chrono. That was the most immature post I\'ve ever seen from you. Xbox is coming, get over it!
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Originally posted by Samwise
Gee, I sure wish I could borrow your crystalballs, mine seems to be defect right now.
WORD
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I have many friends who went to e3,
many magazines and websites that say the same thing
and even the E3 awards say the same thing,
MS was a disappointment at the show!
They won 0 awards and only 2 runner-ups
People who went to e3 I’ve talked to, one a m o d at IGN said the xbox section was empty. He even witnessed one of the crashes, where everybody walked always laughing. He said the ps2 surprised him at the show. And he really liked the gamecube.
So you telling me everybody is lying?
E3 award givers, magazines, people, mods, websites?
Have you ever seen a xbox game in person to know they look that much better? I have not seen one in person, but I’ve played games like ICO, Watched tons of videos, and read opinions and talked with people who have played games like Jak and Dexter and RS2... How many people have you talked to that said MS had an awesome showing, and had games that blew everyone away? How many websites have you seen? How many awards did they win at E3?
This place has turned into xboxcentral!
And to you comment
"I think most of the launch content will be up to par or surpassing PS2 games. DOA3 and Munch just to name 2! Then games like Panzer Dragoon 3 (this is the next coming of god!), Malice, Jet Grind Radio Future, Project Ego, Project Gotham, etc. will come out and keep the image of a very powerful system."
How many of those will be launch tiltles?
I know Panzer Dragoon 3 is not, its also not exclusive
None of the sega games on the xbox are exclusive.
Mallice may not even be exclusive
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Originally posted by Chrono
The xbox will have 500,000 in the USA, and 300,000 in Canada
Assuming.. they meet projections
Thats not much more then the ps2 had, there will be shortages if they hype is as large as I think
hmmmm that seems off, the population ratio for US:Canada is way diferent than that figure, so how did they come up with that? is there more gamers per capita in canada?
Canada has about 30 million people in it while the US has over 200 million(right?)
thats a ratio of 20:3, while the ratio for the sales is 5:3
somethings not right :rolleyes:
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Canada\'s new motto?
"An XBox in every home!"
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Originally posted by ps2gamer_59
hmmmm that seems off, the population ratio for US:Canada is way diferent than that figure, so how did they come up with that? is there more gamers per capita in canada?
Canada has about 30 million people in it while the US has over 200 million(right?)
thats a ratio of 20:3, while the ratio for the sales is 5:3
somethings not right :rolleyes:
Oh yeah! Bill Gates is sweetening the deal with the XBox, he promised every Canadian household that has an XBox will get a big tax refund. :D
I think the ratio should be around 100,000 in Canada and the rest for the States. :D IMO.
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Originally posted by Chrono
This place has turned into xboxcentral!
No, we\'re just not biased nor hateful against everything non-PS2. So what if MS makes a great console? You should be happy because that means more great games for the people. If they fail, well, then it\'s bad news for all of us.
Matrix quote:
Welcome... to the real world.
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Clip, whats so weird about wanting to gawk and fantasize over voluptuous babes? :nut:
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Ginko speaks the truth, although the last 8 replies have just been repeats of my posts earlier. :)
Panzer Dragoon 4 will be unstoppable.
and yes, the Sega games are exclusive until the developer says it isn\'t. The individual hardware teams have full control over their projects, and not Sega Corp. If Hitmaker doesn\'t like PS2 or GC, and likes X-Box, I am betting the games will stay. It isn\'t like Sega to care how a game sells. They are making a sequel to JGR, a game that sold 75 thousand copies.
Also, Chrono, the hardcore gaming, and the elite few who get to go to e3 are not the people who decide the fate of consoles. It is the masses who decide, and so far, all they know about X-Box is it is by Microsoft and it is powerful.
Eric Jacob
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First off, this hype is very limited since the Xbox is not yet being advertised. The true hype will begin when kiosks start popping up and in a situation like that gamer isn\'t being told what to expect but being allowed to test it out themselves. Because of this, I doubt that there will be any serious backlash.
As for E3, I thought PS2 did the best but the graphics at the MS booth were better (but severely hampered by FPS issues). I find it bizarre that E3 is so highly regarded as a way to judge a systems\' fate on a board connected to the PS2.
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>"The true hype will begin when kiosks start popping up and in a situation like that gamer isn\'t being told what to expect but being allowed to test it out themselves. Because of this, I doubt that there will be any serious backlash."
.. hmm
I think your right
but that 500million can create alot of public hype and then backlash
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Originally posted by Chrono
>"The true hype will begin when kiosks start popping up and in a situation like that gamer isn\'t being told what to expect but being allowed to test it out themselves. Because of this, I doubt that there will be any serious backlash."
.. hmm
I think your right
but that 500million can create alot of public hype and then backlash
That is all a matter of how they spending it. If it is a balanced aproach then everything should be fine (Focusing on Halo, DOA3, Munch, Sega titles etc. and heavy distribution of kiosks [a kiosk in ever single Taco Bell ;) ]). However, if they go over board and start selling the system as the second coming and hype Lucas Art\'s ports and the lesser first-party games then they are in trouble.
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Some things are as good as hyped, Chrono.
X-Box just may be the greatest gaming machine since the Saturn (or in many opinions, the SNES).
The X-Box will never amount to as much hype as PS2 had though, I don\'t even know how the Sony PR guys bribed so many news magazines and game editors to keep previewing the system publicly as the quality they were.
So far, I have not heard any outrageous claims from X-Box besides the 125mpps thing. and without shading, textures, etc, it is probably true. By this time with PS2 before the Japanese launch we had heard "Toy Story-like graphics" and "Will change the way games are made and played", etc.
Eric Jacob
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Whoa! Let\'s lower the defense a little bit Chrono.
Jak and Dexter, and ICO look like damn fine games. The PS2 will have good looking games. I was just stating that the Xbox already has content that looks just as good if not better than any PS2 game.
About the launch, hmmm, I\'m not sure exactly what\'s going to be out at launch. Nightcaster, Amped, DOA3, Munch, Halo, etc. probably won\'t disappoint. They all LOOK just as good, gameplay is just something we will have to wait and see for ourselves.
E3, I don\'t even remember this year\'s dullfest. It really didn\'t live up to my expectations. Nintendo held too much back for Spaceworld, Sony showed good stuff for the most part (only 2 titles come to mind), Xbox didn\'t show much of anything.
In fact, it\'s only been in the last few weeks I\'ve become really interested in Xbox. I was thinking Gamecube all the way this year, but now I\'m waiting to see a bit more info from both companies before I make a move.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Also, Chrono, the hardcore gaming, and the elite few who get to go to e3 are not the people who decide the fate of consoles. It is the masses who decide, and so far, all they know about X-Box is it is by Microsoft and it is powerful.
I agree, but I just wonder. At the time of the X-Box\'s release mommy and daddy would be able to buy a PS2 (whose price will highly likely be dropped at least $50) with it\'s Playstation brand name and an already established library of titles, FFX, MGS2, the ability to play DVD movies out of the box, and the ability to play a massive library of very cheap PSOne titles.
Or they could take a look at a shiny new GC - made by the very reputable Nintendo - if you ever doubt the power of the Nintendo brand name just take a look at the way GBA units have been FLYING off the shelves in the US, Japan and Europe. That\'s a lot of brand name recognition, and when mommy, daddy and little tiny Tim go to EB to buy a console, that NINTENDO Gamecube will look pretty damn appealing - especially since it will be about $100 cheaper than the X-Box.
So what does MS bring to the table? Their brand name is much more associated with the Windows OS and Bill Gates, what killer apps for the masses does the game have? Does the average joe gamer really know what the hell Halo is? What about Project Gotham? Sure there will be Sega exclusives, but Sega exclusives weren\'t enough to keep Sega\'s very own console alive. Even though I\'m sure that the X-Box titles will look excellent (and better than many PS2 games), I don\'t think any title will be able to have the same \'wow\' effect that GT3 has had. Project Gotham (apparently) looks better, but from what I\'ve seen the jump isn\'t nearly enough to turn heads. The average joe isn\'t going to appreciate real time reflections, instead they\'ll ask why there aren\'t more licensed cars in Project Gotham. If you need proof of the power of graphics and licenses upon the mass market just check out the plethora of rediculous 10/10, 9.9/10 etc reviews of GT3.
I\'m not bashing the X-Box, I will take a stern look at both the GC and the \'Box, but the more time passes the more I feel that the X-Box will be a dead cert for third place in the console stakes.
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Originally posted by Lavan
I agree, but I just wonder. At the time of the X-Box\'s release mommy and daddy would be able to buy a PS2 (whose price will highly likely be dropped at least $50) with it\'s Playstation brand name and an already established library of titles, FFX, MGS2, the ability to play DVD movies out of the box, and the ability to play a massive library of very cheap PSOne titles.
Or they could take a look at a shiny new GC - made by the very reputable Nintendo - if you ever doubt the power of the Nintendo brand name just take a look at the way GBA units have been FLYING off the shelves in the US, Japan and Europe. That\'s a lot of brand name recognition, and when mommy, daddy and little tiny Tim go to EB to buy a console, that NINTENDO Gamecube will look pretty damn appealing - especially since it will be about $100 cheaper than the X-Box.
Xbox is aiming for the 16-24 demographic, they are not worried about what little timmy\'s parents think. Nintendo will have that younger audience hooked straight out the gate.
So what does MS bring to the table? Their brand name is much more associated with the Windows OS and Bill Gates, what killer apps for the masses does the game have? Does the average joe gamer really know what the hell Halo is? What about Project Gotham?
That\'s why there is a 500 million dollar marketing budget. To let the average joe know what\'s up.
Sure there will be Sega exclusives, but Sega exclusives weren\'t enough to keep Sega\'s very own console alive. Even though I\'m sure that the X-Box titles will look excellent (and better than many PS2 games), I don\'t think any title will be able to have the same \'wow\' effect that GT3 has had. Project Gotham (apparently) looks better, but from what I\'ve seen the jump isn\'t nearly enough to turn heads. The average joe isn\'t going to appreciate real time reflections, instead they\'ll ask why there aren\'t more licensed cars in Project Gotham. If you need proof of the power of graphics and licenses upon the mass market just check out the plethora of rediculous 10/10, 9.9/10 etc reviews of GT3.
The original Gran Turismo was an instant classic. Who\'s to say another game can\'t turn classic overnight on another system?
The Xbox has alot coming up. It needs to make a very positive image on day one. At launch it needs to meet the demand, have plenty of games on selection, lots of advertising, and a steady flow of triple A games after launch through out the rest of it\'s existence. So far it looks to be falling into place.
Launch or shortly after should have SSX:Tricky, New Legends, DOA3, Munch, Unreal Championship, Nightcaster, Amped, Halo, Madden, NFL2K2, NBA2K2, etc. Then you have Jet Grind Radio Future, Malice, Artic Thunder, Panzer Dragoon 4, Silent Hill X, Metal Gear Solid X, Mortal Kombat 5, Onimusha Genma (i think that\'s right), Crazy Taxi Next, Crash, and whatever else it\'s 200 developers are making.
Anything else?
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Originally posted by Ginko
Xbox is aiming for the 16-24 demographic, they are not worried about what little timmy\'s parents think. Nintendo will have that younger audience hooked straight out the gate.
But you forget that a lot of that 16-24 year old demographic were weaned on Nintendo and will be taking a good long look at the mario, zelda, metroid and star wars franchises on the GC too. Don\'t forget that a lot of older gamers have been buying the GBA too, and they\'ll want to get their hands on Metroid and Rogue Squadron.
Originally posted by Ginko
That\'s why there is a 500 million dollar marketing budget. To let the average joe know what\'s up.
They better start advertising soon or at least start generating some hype in the gaming press, since E3 it\'s all been about the GC, GBA and the PS2. MS spent millions on Windows:CE, just because a company spends millions on advertising will not make a system that mostly PC gamers want, sell to the masses.
Originally posted by Ginko
Launch or shortly after should have SSX:Tricky, New Legends, DOA3, Munch, Unreal Championship, Nightcaster, Amped, Halo, Madden, NFL2K2, NBA2K2, etc. Then you have Jet Grind Radio Future, Malice, Artic Thunder, Panzer Dragoon 4, Silent Hill X, Metal Gear Solid X, Mortal Kombat 5, Onimusha Genma (i think that\'s right), Crazy Taxi Next, Crash, and whatever else it\'s 200 developers are making.
NFL2K2 and NBA2K2 will be on the cheaper PS2, as will SSX:Tricky. A few graphical enhancements will not make gamers dump their PS2s or sway potential buyers to pay extra for the X-Box version. The original Jet Grind Radio, despite being an excellent game, didn\'t exactly light up the sales charts for a system that had been out for almost two years. Silent Hill X, MGSX - all these ports will come after the PS2 versions, if you already have a PS2 these titles aren\'t going to make you want an X-Box. If you don\'t have a PS2 why would you wait longer and pay more for an X-Box to play them, when you could just get a PS2?
Everyone says that Microsoft will have EA titles and Sega titles. So will everyone else. Microsoft has THPS, but so does everyone else. Gamers will see THPSX which will be the same as THPS2 on the DC but with better graphics, and then they\'ll see THPS3 on the PS2. Which one would you want to play?
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you make alot of good points Lavan, but you forget how well ports from DC to PS2 did.
DOA2, Crazy Taxi, Resident Evil: CVX (Japan so far, it will be big here too), probably a few others.
People WILL pay money to buy a product that looks a little better cause Americans love wasting money.
I agree with your Gotham/GT3 thing, though. There have been very wacky reviews of it, merely based on graphics and amount of liscensed cars. When Project Gotham comes out, it won\'t be as big as a jump from Test Drive: Le Mans to GT3, it will be GT3 to PG, which only looks marginaly better and right now, I don\'t see a lengthy list of cars for it, either.
Eric Jacob
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GT3 is actually a case of N64-monia...
I am an owner of a PS2....
Being indulged with so much crap for the past two years, everyone of my friends and I rushed to the store and grabbed GT3 right when it launched. It wasn\'t the "killer app" that we wanted because we have played its prior sequels to death and are kind of bored of the series, but it was the first real PS2 gem in a long time. I mean a long time! Of course we had to pick it up.
You are right....
The Xbox might recieve a back-lash but probably in Japan. I have no idea how the system is going to fare overseas and it is killing me. I don\'t want to buy a system that only supports one market. Diversity is a blessing and Japanese softwares are some of the best. It would be a shame if the system don\'t succeed over there and we won\'t see any foreign softwares.
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1.
You make some valid points Lavan, but you may have overlooked a few things. There is also a flip side to that logic, namely that said 16-24 yr. old (and sometimes even older) gamer being weaned on Nintendo, may no longer see Nintendo as appealing to their current tastes when it comes to games. Some gamers however right or wrong, may feel that they have outgrown Nintendo\'s games. As unlikely as it seems, some ppl have expressed this very same pov. Also, the mindset of the casual and newbie gamer does not hold the same respect for games such as MGS 2, FF, Zelda, and Metroid that die-hard Sony and Nintendo fans do. They\'re ignorant or at least indifferent to the popularity of established franchises and probably pick games on a one to one basis as a particular game appeals to them, so game notoriety may not be a factor in their decisions.
2.
IMO even after E3, interest in Xbox has not stagnated at all but continues to grow. It\'s true that just b/c a company spends millions on advertising does not garauntee success, but it sure does help. Who said Xbox mostly appeals to just PC gamers? There will be hardcore gamers that buy Xbox as well as newbie and casual gamers.
3.
I understand your point that ports may not be enough to sway gamers that have allready made their console choice and don\'t plan on buying any other console, but some gamers will be buying multiple consoles this generation, myself included. This may influence port specific games purchases for each particular console depending how a game looks and what features it has in regards to each specific console. It has become obvious, that Xbox will have it\'s fair share of games that it recieves first and then ported over to other systems as well. In the case of the MATRIX, Xbox will have the definitive version of the game. We can\'t forget the Sega games that will be showing up on Xbox that are for the moment exclusive, that may make some ppl want to purchase an Xbox also. Panzer Dragoon is a good example of this. Most importantly, there will be 80 exclusives that Xbox will get, 40 3rd party and 40 1st and 2nd party games. I don\'t know how many exclusives PS2 and Gamecube will have, but that\'s not too shabby a number for MS to have in it\'s arsenal. Out of those 80, I\'m sure some gamers will find a few games that will be featured nowhere else but Xbox that may just warrant a purchase of the console. As far as why would some ppl wait to buy an Xbox instead of a PS2, some ppl didn\'t buy a Dreamcast b/c they were waiting to buy a PS2. Go figure.
4.
As far as those examples of games are concerned (THPS2, THPS2X and THPS3), whose to say if any one of those games will tip the odds in favor of a particular console purchase either way? As it\'s been stated numerous times before on these boards, the thing that could make or break a console this generation, is not the amount of ports that each console will have b/c all the systems will have ports, but it will probably come down to the amount of good exclusives each console has that could make a difference.
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For those that are rednecks on this board and can\'t understand anything, I was at E3. I knew going into this year\'s E3 that things were going to be a snore for everyone.
Why? Because both the consoles that mean anything are launching so late this year, its almost worth not talking about. Its E3 2002 thats going to be much better for all platforms. I think this was a pretty much simple concept to understand since by next E3 all platforms with be out in every country around the world, all online launches will be launched and we will be heading for titles that are due out next christmas where the real battle is.
The PS2 at this past E3, had a good game called DMC, which was awesome, the rest was crap.. Again, its this quality of software that is crappy that is just dumped on the platform and sadly I think Xbox gets this software as well. yuck.... most developers do not have talent and this is true on the most popular platforms. Its unfortunate, but true. Only a handfull can have talent, the rest are copycats or have premade engines.
I went to E3 this past year, knowing it wasn\'t going to be great at all, but going to E3 is always fun, just nothing really cool going on. E3 2002 will be different for everyone though, including the PS2. Some cool stuff that most of you don\'t know about yet. :)
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Originally posted by Docwiz
\\ Some cool stuff that most of you don\'t know about yet. :)
I forgot DocWiz was the resident industry insider....
:rolleyes:
I will agree that E3 2002 will be more exciting for fans of each console though.
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What i find funny is that many casuals are STILL confused about Ps2 specs. One of my friends said just yesterday that Sony raised the Ps2 specs so that it can now push 80 mpps in game lol