PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Ryu on August 25, 2001, 11:37:15 AM
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First, before I get into my lengthy introduction into this heavily controversial topic, I have to make sure that you are all in the proper mindset. To be sure that you are, I have one question to ask:
What do you think of when you see this picture?
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.htloz.com%2Fzelda3%2Fz3_pics%2Fz3_009.GIF&hash=22c13954c160c08102272d006af72bca307ff8ff)
Now, before you think of an answer, I want you to forget all about the b|tching and complaining that has taken place over the past 4 days or so. I want you to forget about your opinion of the "new" Zelda game. I want you to form an opinion about this game before I go on. Got a good idea? No? Well, I\'ll get things rolling first.
When I take a good look at that picture, I remember the first time I ever played a Zelda game. For me, that first trial came in the form of Zelda: A Link to the Past. Honestly, as a younger child, I thought the game sucked. I didn\'t understand what I had to do, I didn\'t know what the tools were for. Traveling through the world and not being able to traverse many areas because of my characters frailty was just unacceptable in my opinion.
However, once I watched a friend of mine play for a good solid two hours, that\'s a lot when you\'re a kid and you\'re not even touching the controller, and after he advanced through roughly 2 dungeons as I sat just eating away at the story, I was intrigued to say the least. Immediately afterwards, I jumped outside, friends copy of the game in hand, and started swinging my arms forward as if I had a sword of my own attempting to save the fair princess and bring the Tri-Force together to thwart the evil-doer\'s plans.
Never before had I ever stumbled upon a game this rich and eventful with an original lush enviornment as the staple for the game\'s ongoing story. The puzzles chipped away at my sanity for hours as I searched for the next area to explore and the next great sword that will do the most damage. Tools, sweet beautiful tools that assisted me through and through with those difficult challenges while also showing me that being creative with how you play is just as important as defeating the more powerful enemies.
With a firm set of how Zelda should be in my mind and an understanding of how original, cartoony, and innovative this world truly should be, I first set eyes on the original demo screenshots of the Ultra 64 and a little game being displayed called Zelda 64. After stepping out of the pool of urine beneath my feet and waiting an entire two years before actually laying hands on my own copy, I was finally playing Zelda in 3D. However, for some reason, the game failed to grip me in the same way A Link to the Past did. What was it? Link had not changed, but the world around him had. That same cartoony story book feel that was present originaly had been lifted away.
As an adult, I\'m not sure if I cared much about that fact as the game was still a great deal of fun, but to me, it just didn\'t have that essence I had come to know and love from the previous games. Where was the cartoony little sounds I had come to love every time I fell down an area? Where was the odd dances performed by our hero to recieve new items and advancing the quest? Since when did Link ever need a horse? These things sound petty and very trivial and I know many people who would say that the 3D Zeldas are better than anything available today, but I really don\'t see the artistic creative world that I had envisioned in these 64-bit games.
Enter the Legend of Zelda demo from SpaceWorld 2000 for the Dolphin. Wow. What an amazing technical demo. Wait a second, technical demo? That\'s right, Miyamoto and all of Nintendo claimed that the Zelda video was nothing more then a real-time tech demo. Nevertheless, hordes of fanboys were quick to plaster the video into the faces of Sony and MS bigots all over the net. The phrase "Technical demo" never seemed to enter the minds of these gamers and instead promised it would be a sign of things to come. However, this couldn\'t have been further from the truth.
One year passes and Spaceworld 2001 rears it\'s ugly head up and into the faces of gamers all over the world. The mature Link that seemed to have been envisioned by so many from last years Spaceworld event would soon become a fond, yet painful memory.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcubemedia.ign.com%2Fmedia%2Fspace2k1%2Fzeldamario%2Fzelda6.jpg&hash=9ba6ee1edc7e5fa2adf19f8e66ff781e474b608b)
Now, what do you see when you examine this picture? I see a world that was born in 2D and now represented fully, and more importantly, accurately, in 3D. I see trees that are the same design as before with a cartoony world that I had originally fallen in love with. However, would this game be the same Link we had come to love when A Link to the Past was released? Not exactly. Instead, this Zelda combines the overworld style present in A Link the Past with the same combat system of Ocarina of Time. Nintendo has taken the best 2 versions of Zelda ever created and combined them in a successful amalgam of unique style and unique gameplay.
Shigeru Miyamoto has grabbed the original Zelda and thrust it upon us in a world where originality comes second to polygon power. Miyamoto has placed us in a world full of uniqueness and presented us with original gameplay that is so great nowadays as to put most games to utter shame. Zelda was the original pioneer of adventure games and now it has returned in a faithful representation of its roots to slay that evil "improved graphics equals a better game" fallacy.
"Link looks like a girl."
What\'s your point? With over a year and a half to go before it releases and you\'ve already formed a solid opinion of how great the game will be based on the main characters stylistic look? Since when was Link a tough Elvan adult? As far as I can remember, Link has always been a young boy trying to do the impossible. Why do you think he needs an item to help him lift a vase? Perhaps understanding that he is actually supposed to be a child is a thought that escapes most of us thanks to the fact that we recognize Link in 3D moreso with the current games rather then what has been released in the past. Have we forgotten and chosen not to remember what made this game great in the first place or what made Link a great character?
Don\'t tell me his eyes, his face, and his hair were Link\'s most heroic assets. When I see this Link of the present, I see exactly what he originally was intended to be: A young clever child. To say that your opinion was incorrect would be an incredibly biased thing to say, but I am asking you to see it from my perspective. Don\'t try to see Link as a girl, or a doe-eyed freak, but rather as a 3D version of what was once loved from the past.
You can all pine away at the misinterpretation of your labeling ways, but I for one see Link as nothing more than a young clever child that represents what we always wanted to do as a child. Perhaps now that most of us are older, we can\'t help but see Link as a little sissy girl, but to me, that sounds simply jaded. Hopefully, when the game nears completion, you will all grow to understand and love this fresh representation of the past.
Until then, I\'d love to hear any comments on this. Please, feel free to keep this as a IDO* topic.
*Intelligent Discussions Only
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You said it all, man, as usual. This was the best move possible for Zelda, in my opinion. I was upset first, but after looking at the videos, you can appericate where the series is going, in my opinion.
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Ditto. I love the "new" direction Zelda is taking, although I still wish Link\'s character design were improved a little (modeled after the Link from SNES instruction manual perhaps).
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Good ponts raised...but I have matured since the wonderful Zeldas on the NES and SNES, and I was hoping the games would mature with me....oh well........:(
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Wow, how long did that take you to right? My topic only took me 15 or 20 minutes. :p
My problem with the change, is there is no change. It\'s just Link in another 3D world except this time there is a super cartoony feel to it. It\'s still using the acclaimed Ocarina Of Time engine. It\'s still Zelda.
I think you over exagerated how Zelda 3 felt cartoony. There were very few moments when it felt like a cartoon besides the ones you mentioned. This next Zelda isn\'t going back to it\'s roots like you make it out to be, it\'s still in a 3D world ala OoT. That hasen\'t changed. Anything Miyamoto could accomplish gameplay wise in this cartoon form, he could do it in 3D form just as well.
You say it\'s unique and original, but in actuality it\'s trendy and the same as the 3D Zeldas. Cel-shading has been done before. In fact, it\'s getting kind of old now. Too many developers are using it now. It\'s trendy. It\'s a cartoon OoT. Not very unique or original if you ask me.
Also, if Miyamoto wanted to be unique, then why not just blow everyone\'s expectations by making a slightly more mature Zelda? The gameplay will still be the same, but this time it would have a more darker atmosphere to it. A more mature feel that everyone could appreciate. MM had it, and boy it felt great. It felt like Zelda was growing up and for the better. Going cartoony isn\'t being unique at all. It\'s not going back to it\'s roots, it\'s extremely trendy, fans will not like it(that has already been proven drastically), what good is it for?
In the end, this game is still Ocarina of Time. In my opinion, Zelda 3 has nothing on this game, and I know a lot of people feel this way too. In 3D, it felt more alive and free. The dugeons were far more complex as were the puzzles, and the spectacular Zelda gameplay was still there, just improved.
In conclusion, the game offers nothing new. Same Zelda gameplay, in a cartoony form. I\'ll still buy it though as it still will be a great game. I wish I could share your enthusiam Ryu, but I can\'t.
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Originally posted by Jumpman
Wow, how long did that take you to right? My topic only took me 15 or 20 minutes. :p
My problem with the change, is there is no change. It\'s just Link in another 3D world except this time there is a super cartoony feel to it. It\'s still using the acclaimed Ocarina Of Time engine. It\'s still Zelda.
I think you over exagerated how Zelda 3 felt cartoony. There were very few moments when it felt like a cartoon besides the ones you mentioned. This next Zelda isn\'t going back to it\'s roots like you make it out to be, it\'s still in a 3D world ala OoT. That hasen\'t changed. Anything Miyamoto could accomplish gameplay wise in this cartoon form, he could do it in 3D form just as well.
You say it\'s unique and original, but in actuality it\'s trendy and the same as the 3D Zeldas. Cel-shading has been done before. In fact, it\'s getting kind of old now. Too many developers are using it now. It\'s trendy. It\'s a cartoon OoT. Not very unique or original if you ask me.
Also, if Miyamoto wanted to be unique, then why not just blow everyone\'s expectations by making a slightly more mature Zelda? The gameplay will still be the same, but this time it would have a more darker atmosphere to it. A more mature feel that everyone could appreciate. MM had it, and boy it felt great. It felt like Zelda was growing up and for the better. Going cartoony isn\'t being unique at all. It\'s not going back to it\'s roots, it\'s extremely trendy, fans will not like it(that has already been proven drastically), what good is it for?
In the end, this game is still Ocarina of Time. In my opinion, Zelda 3 has nothing on this game, and I know a lot of people feel this way too. In 3D, it felt more alive and free. The dugeons were far more complex as were the puzzles, and the spectacular Zelda gameplay was still there, just improved.
In conclusion, the game offers nothing new. Same Zelda gameplay, in a cartoony form. I\'ll still buy it though as it still will be a great game. I wish I could share your enthusiam Ryu, but I can\'t.
Jumpman took the words right out of my mouth. Imagine how great a brand new, gritty, dark, intricate Zelda game would feel. :eyemouth: But that\'s now a dream, and it isn\'t going ro happen :(
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like i said before...ive grown up...
i was young when i played the first 3 zelda\'s...
and i dont pee on myself when i hear of a new sequel for zelda because i was dissapointed with the n64 versions...
zelda is not for me anymore.....and im not upset about it....
it died for me a long time ago...i was hoping it would get resurrected on the gamecube, but i do not like the style it took...
how would you feel if castlevania went cell shaded and simon belmont looked like a powerpuff fag with a shoestring for a whip?
i bet you all would be singing a different tune...
im not going to swallow whatever nintendo says or does...if i like it, i like it..if i dont, too bad...i wont buy it...its so simple...
im an artist..and i do not like zelda\'s new style...its not for me....i dont care how fun it is...link was never a fag....
even the original zelda\'s instruction booklet, never portrayed link this fruity....had they used the art style from the instruction booklets of zelda 3..or the strategy guides..or the ocarina of time and majoras mask artwork..or even the friday afternoon cartoons from the mario bros supershow...(for those of you that were alive back then)...i wouldve been happy...go to http://www.thelegendofzelda.com now thats some cool cartoony artwork....but this new gay look is unacceptable...sorry....it end there for me.
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i totally agree with jumpman in this one..
i wouldve loved for zelda to take a darker more mature feel like in majoras mask....but it didnt happen...
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The CastleVania analogy is flawed for one reason. CastleVania has always been a dark game. Zelda has always been a more cartoon / comical game.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
The CastleVania analogy is flawed for one reason. CastleVania has always been a dark game. Zelda has always been a more cartoon / comical game.
well you know what lic?
i never thought zelda was comical in anyway...
when i was young, and i played the 1st 3 zelda\'s i thought it was nintendo\'s most serious and in depth game...
i hoped they would take that to a new level and instead they went 3 levels back in my opinion.
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Damn, 1 hour passes, and I already need to reply to a lot. This forum really is starving for a good discussion. :)
Saotome
(modeled after the Link from SNES instruction manual perhaps).
Yah, I can see that completely. However, I still like what we have seen so far. Just imagine the facial expressions at different points. If we have seen anything so far it\'s that this Link will show TONS of emotion in his face.
CS2x
but I have matured since the wonderful Zeldas on the NES and SNES, and I was hoping the games would mature with me....oh well........
Zelda started in a cartoon world and he should stay in a cartoon world. That\'s just my opinion though, sorry you have gotten older. I prefer how I am though, old ass, fresh young mind. :)
Jumpman took the words right out of my mouth. Imagine how great a brand new, gritty, dark, intricate Zelda game would feel.
Just imagine how intricate this cel-shaded Zelda is going to be. Imagine just how great a large bell tower shaded in a dark tone would look, or the clouds, or... well, that\'s for another post entirely. :)
Jumpman
Wow, how long did that take you to right? My topic only took me 15 or 20 minutes.
40 minutes total, plus 10 minutes to find the pictures. However, it took me about 12 hours in all actuality. Started it last night at about 1AM, wrote for about 30 minutes, slept at 3.40AM (was playing Counter-Strike), woke up at about 11.50AM, played Oracle of Ages till about 1PM, finished the article and left at about 1.20PM to go grocery shopping. I love my writing schedule. :)
My problem with the change, is there is no change. It\'s just Link in another 3D world except this time there is a super cartoony feel to it. It\'s still using the acclaimed Ocarina Of Time engine. It\'s still Zelda.
There is a huge change. The last game that we have seen where Zelda was truly in his roots was the Oracle games, but those were not released on any console. (I do not consider handhelds consoles). Before that, it was LttP. The series went from cartoony adventure to more serious exploration when it hit the N64 and now it\'s going back to cartoony adventure. I consider that a big change.
I think you over exagerated how Zelda 3 felt cartoony. There were very few moments when it felt like a cartoon besides the ones you mentioned. This next Zelda isn\'t going back to it\'s roots like you make it out to be, it\'s still in a 3D world ala OoT. That hasen\'t changed. Anything Miyamoto could accomplish gameplay wise in this cartoon form, he could do it in 3D form just as well.
Just look at the screenshot I provided of LttP. You think that looks like a mature game? It looks like a damn cartoon to me and now that Zelda is going back to that, I welcome the change. OoT was nothing like any previous Zelda before it. The game was very different from LttP, but this new zelda looks a whole ton similar to LttP. If we consider OoT to be the mature version of Zelda, then I consider LttP to be the younger cartoony version, which is the version presented anew.
You say it\'s unique and original, but in actuality it\'s trendy and the same as the 3D Zeldas. Cel-shading has been done before. In fact, it\'s getting kind of old now. Too many developers are using it now. It\'s trendy. It\'s a cartoon OoT. Not very unique or original if you ask me.
It\'s not the same as the 3D Zelda\'s because the worlds rendered look so dissimilar. Cel-shading is old? THen I guess sprites are old as well. Damn, now that were at it, polygons are old too. Every Zelda should be a brand new graphical design not done before. [/sarcasm] Cel-shading is not trendy, it\'s a means for developers to use that same level of detail found in a sprite in a polygonal world. Admit it, a 3D Ryu is no match for his hand-drawn sprite representation and i believe the same applies here with this cel-shading technique. Cel-shading allows link to get away with that cartoony expression on his face while still feeling in-place in the game world. If a "Mature" Link winked, I\'d never buy it.
Also, if Miyamoto wanted to be unique, then why not just blow everyone\'s expectations by making a slightly more mature Zelda? The gameplay will still be the same, but this time it would have a more darker atmosphere to it.
Because Zelda is not a mature game. It never was. However, since you think it should head in that direction, then please, define mature for me. I\'d REALLY love to hear how you think an Elvan with an earing fighting a half grown cactus "monster" could be more "mature." You saw Link fight Ganon in the SW2K vid, but that was a demo of two human like beings, now what if Link was fighting a pig monster in that demo? One that glowed every time you nailed it with a sword. I rest my case on that one. The world Link lives in is the world the game is defined by. Link "maturing" does not mean the game itself will be "mature."
Lestat
im an artist..and i do not like zelda\'s new style...its not for me....i dont care how fun it is...link was never a fag....
First of all, I think you can find a better adjective then "fag." Please do so. Secondly, since when did Link\'s looks and how fun the game was ever relate?
i never thought zelda was comical in anyway...
when i was young, and i played the 1st 3 zelda\'s i thought it was nintendo\'s most serious and in depth game...
So when you look at the first pic on this page, you do not see the cartoon qualities present? You mean you looked beyond the world and into the gameplay and story moreso? How come you can\'t do the same for the new Zelda shown at Spaceworld 2K1? What if the game is just as dark and gritty story-wise with a gameplay engine as great as LttP. Are you telling me you wouldn\'t play it because Link looks, something you learned to looks beyond in the earlier Zelda\'s, like a "fag"? Nice contradiction in terms.
Oh well, some good replies so far. Keep it up.
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Originally posted by Ryu
So when you look at the first pic on this page, you do not see the cartoon qualities present? You mean you looked beyond the world and into the gameplay and story moreso? How come you can\'t do the same for the new Zelda shown at Spaceworld 2K1? What if the game is just as dark and gritty story-wise with a gameplay engine as great as LttP. Are you telling me you wouldn\'t play it because Link looks, something you learned to looks beyond in the earlier Zelda\'s, like a "fag"? Nice contradiction in terms.
when i look at the first pic, i see a game that looked awesome for its time...and took advantage of a lot of the snes capabilites...
i was 13 at the time and it intrigued me much....over the years, i would expect better character design, better looking levels, and graphics that take advantage of the new consoles capabilities...
imo, the new zelda has the weakest character design ever, and the worlds ive seen so far are low polys...and lack in detail...
btw..link never looked this bad....even in the 8 bit systems...
he never looked like a powerpuff girl.....
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There is a huge change. The last game that we have seen where Zelda was truly in his roots was the Oracle games, but those were not released on any console. (I do not consider handhelds consoles). Before that, it was LttP. The series went from cartoony adventure to more serious exploration when it hit the N64 and now it\'s going back to cartoony adventure. I consider that a big change.
Back to it\'s root? Like I said earlier, you over exagerate how cartoony Zelda 3 felt. It didn\'t really feel cartoony at all actually. The was pratically no story-line, the game just relied on it\'s steller gameplay. The gameplay also felt limited. I felt cramped while playing it. I\'m not saying it\'s a bad game, it\'s still probably in my top 10 for favs all time but Zelda:OoT felt more free. N
Who says this game won\'t be a serious adventure? As far as I can see, it\'s Zelda:OoT with cel-shaded graphics. Big change? Hardly. The cartoon feel was barely ever present in the previous Zelda game. Really, go back and play them again. You\'ll see that you blew the cartoon feel totally out of proportion.
Just look at the screenshot I provided of LttP. You think that looks like a mature game? It looks like a damn cartoon to me and now that Zelda is going back to that, I welcome the change. OoT was nothing like any previous Zelda before it. The game was very different from LttP, but this new zelda looks a whole ton similar to LttP. If we consider OoT to be the mature version of Zelda, then I consider LttP to be the younger cartoony version, which is the version presented anew.
No, I do not think LttP looks like a mature game, but it\'s far from cartoony, like I said. You were still adventuring, the dungeons were a lot simpler from the N64 versions, but were still great and felt similar due to puzzle solving, the dark-world has a moody feeling present, no cartoon feel though. So what if the trees looked the same? It\'s still Zelda:OoT at heart. Miyamoto knows that game put it\'s counter-parts to shame. That\'s why he\'s using it\'s game engine though slightly modified.
OoT wasn\'t exactly mature, it had the Zelda feel to it. You want cartoony? I see you never saw the reaction of Link when Princess Ruto asked him to marry her. That was cartoony. The little sound when got a new mask in MM-cartoony. Link\'s noises-cartoony. When Daruna danced-cartoony. In fact, the N64 Zeldas were just as cartoony as LttP, no doubt. Blah, the Zelda series has ALWAYS been kind of cartoony. No one ever said anything about the N64 Zeldas not following the style of their previous installments.
It\'s not the same as the 3D Zelda\'s because the worlds rendered look so dissimilar. Cel-shading is old? THen I guess sprites are old as well. Damn, now that were at it, polygons are old too. Every Zelda should be a brand new graphical design not done before. [/sarcasm] Cel-shading is not trendy, it\'s a means for developers to use that same level of detail found in a sprite in a polygonal world. Admit it, a 3D Ryu is no match for his hand-drawn sprite representation and i believe the same applies here with this cel-shading technique. Cel-shading allows link to get away with that cartoony expression on his face while still feeling in-place in the game world. If a "Mature" Link winked, I\'d never buy it.
The worlds rendered in the cartoony version look like OoT more so than LttP. That little tunnel where is was raining looks EXACTLY like the tunnel in the fields of Termina(though I doubt you know what that is?). It had N64 Zelda writen all over it. The dungeon scene kind of reminded me of the forest temple(or do you not know what that is also?).
I never said cel-shading was old, just trendy. Just because Zelda is cel-shaded doesn\'t mean it\'s unique. It may be different from the other Zeldas, but not different in general. Now a super realistic Zelda would be unique too(yes), but hey, Nintendo choose to go in the opposite direction for drug overdose reasons...
And it would depend on how an adult Link would wink. I wouldn\'t mind it if he had some attitude.
Because Zelda is not a mature game. It never was. However, since you think it should head in that direction, then please, define mature for me. I\'d REALLY love to hear how you think an Elvan with an earing fighting a half grown cactus "monster" could be more "mature." You saw Link fight Ganon in the SW2K vid, but that was a demo of two human like beings, now what if Link was fighting a pig monster in that demo? One that glowed every time you nailed it with a sword. I rest my case on that one. The world Link lives in is the world the game is defined by. Link "maturing" does not mean the game itself will be "mature."
By mature, I mean more realistic graphics wise and during some gameplay moments. Parts in the N64 Zelda had some dark, mature places in them, especially in MM. But hey, aslong as they keep the Zelda gameplay then I\'m happy. There is nothing that can\'t be done in the cartoon version that you could do in a realictic version. But the realistic version would have a more general appeal. Casual gamers would be more drawn to it. Hey, look at some Nintendo boards. Zelda fans are going crazy over the change. I can live with it simply because it\'s going to be Zelda in the end. :)
Woo, long post.
First of all, I think you can find a better adjective then "fag."
Actually, that was the first word that came to my mind when I saw this Link. It does look a bit...odd to say the least.
And Ryu, check out the art-work with MM(go to Zelda.com). Check out what Link looks like there. Admit it, he would look a lot better than the version were seeing.
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Ryu, you took the words right out of my mouth (it must have been when you were kissing me). As ive been saying for quite some time, i think the game looks fun. And i think the game will have more to it then what we have just seen. I think Miyamoto will upgrade the battle engine greatly.
but anyhoo...for the past 4 days or so i have been commenting on how this new look was much more true to the original look of Zelda than the 64 games...and i think thats what they should have done, and what they wanted to do all along. I guarantee you, if the 64 could have handled something like this, the OoT that you know, would have looked much more like this game.
gleh, my post is all screwed up, my thoughts are all over the place...i gotta get some sleep. I say, get over the fact that Link looks homosexually inclined, get over the fact that you fell in love with the 64 version, and the Zelda tech demo...thats not what Zelda is, and its not what Nintendo wanted Zelda to be. This is what Link should have been like the whole time, cartoony, and damn fun.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
The CastleVania analogy is flawed for one reason. CastleVania has always been a dark game. Zelda has always been a more cartoon / comical game.
Zelda has never, EEEEEVVVVVEEEEERRRRR, been a comical game. Just had to point that out and that CastleVania is a HUGE rip-off of Metroid.
Bob, you didn\'t like the N64 Zelda, so I doubt you\'ll like this one because it is using the OoT engine.
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Originally posted by Jumpman
and that CastleVania is a HUGE rip-off of Metroid.
whoah whoah whoah.....hold your horses there...in NO WAY is castlevania a metroid ripoff.....maybe youre comparing symphony of the night..which is prolly the 13th castlevania sequel...
castlevania, with the exception of simons quest and sotn, has been a game in which you must battle through a level then beat a boss at the end of that level...metroid is not like that at all...
and the crappy n64 versions were 3d..something metroid has never been...and shouldnt be...
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Well, I thoughroughly played Circle Of The Moon and I can safely say that it is a Metroid clone.
In Metroid, you fight bosses, upgrading your health and weapons and capabilities, have this little pods to save in which are the only places where you can save(besides the ship), and has a dark atmosphere to it.
In COTehMoon, you fight bosses, upgrade your health and other statuses by gaining experience, upgrade your weapons and capabilities, have these weird circle things to save in as the only place where you can save, and has a dark atmosphere to it.
The only difference in gameplay is that Metroid has a gun and CV has a wip and in CastleVania you can gain experience points.
That sounds like a clone to me, even though it\'s a good clone. :)
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Jumpman,
Before you accuse CV of being a Metroid rip-off, learn your roots. If Circle of the Moon is the first Castlevania game you\'ve gone through, then you have no right to make that absurd and incorrect assumption.
/ dm /
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castlevania has been around for ever....im not sure which came out first or if they both came out at the same time...on the NES...metroid has only had 3 parts...while castlevania has had a million....and theyve all had similarities and differences between one another....perhaps it seems as if some elements are similar to those of metroid, but i can almost guarantee that konami did not rip them off....
besides..you obviously havent played the rest of them...
why not say Metroid Prime is a rip off of Half-Life ?
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Well zelda has never been a cartoon game. Zelda was on of the first nintendo game released. It was the first to sell one million copies. It started all the huge popularity in nintendo games. Zelda started it all. I mean even though mario was right on his heals link held his own and was the first game on SNES to sell 1million copies also.
I remember Ganon and the triforce of power. I remember fighting my way through all 8 dungeons in the game. I remember playing this game for hours and hours trying to get all the hidden treasures and pieces.
Just think of zelda 2 now nintendo went all out of tradition with link with this one and it could have been the best game on nes but it had it\'s problems. But then we see that nintendo was trying to mature link. Nintendo really had something going with zelda 2 and I liked the idea. The game had more harder edge to it.
But in zelda 3 which is the best out of the series to me they went back to tradition. But with all the evil eliments and dungeons I just don\'t see zelda a quote on quote"Kiddy game" I mean your fighting in dugeons. You got all these weapons and sourcery around you. I mean mario is true kiddy. I would put zelda just above that. Not that I am saying zelda is hardcore as a silent hill or something but is not as kiddy as a mario.
And OOT on n64 you could clearly see that link was heading in an even more mature stage. I mean it had some great moments in the game.
I just don\'t like this new cartoonish link...it just seems they are trying to go to kiddy with the game. And abandon all ideas they had of taking link to a more mature level. That zelda demo got so many positive responses. I mean it had everyone raving over Nintendo. I mean is that not the respons you want out of a game?
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Jumpman, before you label the CastleVania series as a rip-off, play the originals. They was strictly platform based (\'cept 2) . I will give you that SOTN and Circle of the Moon are Metriod rip-off\'s though . Just don\'t label the whole series that, because CastleVania has been around before Metriod was even thought of.
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Fine then, I was wrong, so I\'ll rephrase what I said:
The newer, and supposedly better CastleVanias are Metroid rip-offs.
Satisfied?
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Originally posted by Jumpman
Fine then, I was wrong, so I\'ll rephrase what I said:
The newer, and supposedly better CastleVanias are Metroid rip-offs.
Satisfied?
Yes, indeedy.
Damn good rip-offs also.
:)
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Sorry but i have never read soo much Crap in all my life, it now seems like your avarage GC fan is now sitting in a dark room rocking back and forth saying to themselfs
"its ok it will be all right !...........its ok it will be all right !.............its ok it will be all right !...............its ok it will be all right !"
over and over and over again !
ok lets lake a REALISTIC View on this one.
What they did I.E. Nintendo and Mr Zelda himself was very very wrong !
its not that the game now looks like it was drawn by a group of 4 year olds, but the fact they choise to use the Lure and bait method to Sucker everyone who was waiting this game.
To put it in prospective !
it\'s like Mr Hideo releasing a second moive of MGS2 at E3 2001 where insted of the lush environmental effect, realistic player and enemy modiles and a AI to kill for.
He opted to get rid of it all and have it run in 2D with a "solid" Snake who\'s balls haven\'t even dropped yet !
FFS Nintendo what are you doing..... at this rate in another 5 years or so with the next line of Zelda games, we can expect to see a little Link Sperm swimming around in someones Testicles !
now lets look that the evolution of Zelda through the ages !
First 2 Zelda games (i.e Pre Super Nintendo)
World All 2D
Link in 2D
ok now they look a bit dated my todays standards but the gameplay is there, if a little limited to one screen at a time.
Grpahic where very simple bitmaps but they did the job.
Zelda (super Nintendo)
World All 2D
Link in 2D
Zelda on the Super Nintendo was THE game that convinced me in getting one.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.htloz.com%2Fzelda3%2Fz3_pics%2Fz3_009.GIF&hash=22c13954c160c08102272d006af72bca307ff8ff)
The graphic where improved and even environmental factors such as Fog and Rain where added. The Cartoon graphics where enhanced by the full use of colours and it real did feal like you where playing somthing special !
Zelda Both titles on the (N64)
World Nealy Full 3D with the exsption of some of the stages like the market place where in 2D.
Link both young and old 3D.
This again we that Main Reason why i bought a N 64 !
The game play and graphics have eveolved into 3D and to match the story line the game itself developed into a more darker story line. Also as a result players are now given the chance to explore anywhre they see in Hyrule, See death mountain from the fields you can climb and enter it !, Night and day pass andthe only main Flaw with it was the lack of Enemyes a little more would of been nice to fight.
Zelda Gamecube Pree Spaceworld.....
now, i have to say that the pre-spaceworld trailer of the NEXT Zelda game had the vast magority of my friends to want to wait for a NGC. Most of them have even pre ordered it and no one i kink whould buy a X box due to this fact !
"Look at the detail " they would constantly say.
you can see the vains on the back of links hands they would shout !
well yesterday i showed them both the Screens and movies of the NEW ZELDA !
and i have to say their reaction was at first.
"is this some kind of JOKE ? "
then
"Ow God what have they Done"
infact every one that has seen it has either :laughing: :crying: or walked away in total rage.
ok the main point of what i am going to say is .....(reason for it being in large red bold.
The true fact of the matter is that what we have seen with the Zelda games it the EVOLUTION of both Graphics and Gameplay to match the desire of the Fan. Now what they have done is to take a backstep in the graphics department and a total regretion in the over alll age of the gamer that this game will appeal to.
So will this like soo many other Nintendo plans, Alienate
even more would be gamers........... well i for one think YES !
It looks like for the more mature gamer that we have out grown Link and his friends.
and i for one hope that Nintendo Burn In Silicon HELL along with all the photocopyers for this one!
If this Links True Awakening..... then i am beigning to wish that He DIED in HIS SLEEP ! [/SIZE]
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Originally posted by ooseven
.
and i for one hope that Nintendo Burn In Silicon HELL along with all the photocopyers for this one!
If this Links True Awakening..... then i am beigning to wish that He DIED in HIS SLEEP ! [/SIZE]
f--k yeah!!!!
i agree totally....F nintendo....
let them make games for the toddlers...
im staying away from that gaycube...
they sure aint getting my support....
and im sure theyve lost lots of fans too....
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Originally posted by lestat
f--k yeah!!!!
i agree totally....F nintendo....
let them make games for the toddlers...
im staying away from that gaycube...
they sure aint getting my support....
and im sure theyve lost lots of fans too....
Sorry it\'s just Zelda i have a problem with, and seeing that it was one of THE games i WAS goingto get..... the chances of me getting a NGC at Launch Date is very doutful.
Matbe when Perfect Dark 2 and the other AAA Titles are out but not before
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Originally posted by ooseven
Matbe when Perfect Dark 2 and the other AAA Titles are out but not before
yeah right....nintendo will prolly change perfect dark around because it will be too frightening for the toddlers....
i wouldnt put my trust on nintendo anymore....
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Originally posted by lestat
yeah right....nintendo will prolly change perfect dark around because it will be too frightening for the toddlers....
i wouldnt put my trust on nintendo anymore....
Shuddap. For someone who keeps calling GameCube the "GayCube", you don\'t seem to old yourself.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by lestat
f--k yeah!!!!
i agree totally....F nintendo....
let them make games for the toddlers...
im staying away from that gaycube...
they sure aint getting my support....
and im sure theyve lost lots of fans too....
For someone that feels Nintendo caters to just Children this post doesn\'t make you seem much older. Seriously there are other ways to express your "anger" than to take the fanboy way out and use clever takes on the Gamecube\'s name to make homophobic jokes.
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*bump*
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I like people with lotsa info
I also like the first zelda it is my fave!!
the others are to complicated for moi :nut:
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I don\'t feel as if I really belong in this discussion since my exposure to playing the Zelda series is limited to the GB version Links Awakening and from what I\'ve heard it was only a shadow of the S-NES games. As it was I found it marvelous for a hand held so I can easily see how the series has drawn so many loyal fans. Being cutesy didn\'t detract from the puzzles and overall entertainment one bit. Keep in mind this is coming from an old man compared to most of you guys. I\'m fairly sure my wife and I enjoyed the game as much as our three kids.
What prompts me to butt in here is it seems some of you have missed the connection Zelda\'s old look was a result of the primitive system it started out on more than an effort to capture the hearts of youngsters or the young at heart. Had the technology been available at the "birth" of Link I\'m almost absolutely certain the squat bugeyed head-shoes-shield thing would have never been associated with the slim tough elven character pictured in the old manuals. I don\'t think there are any gamers young or old that have found themselves wishing the games they\'re playing weren\'t quite so sophisticated or realistic. At least not yet. And I find farfetched if not outright bogus the idea of a game like Zelda returning nearer to its primitive roots in look will somehow be more for fun or recapture its old magic. Whether the added fun factor turns out to be true or not one thing is certain, a large segment of loyal Zelda/Nintendo fans feel as if they have been sucker punched and kicked to the curb. If they never return I wouldn\'t blame them.
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Off topic;
Like it or not nowadays the term "gay" has morphed into a meaning more along the lines of weak, feeble, girly, rather than just purely a matter of sexual preference. I don\'t know for sure what lestat means when using it for the new look of Link or the Cube, it doesn\'t really matter. What matters is, as was stated, it wasn\'t directed personally at other members so I see no call to get all bent about using the term. Just venting disappointment about a game and a company is all.
Besides, if you plan on playing the next installment of Zelda and it ends up using this latest version of Link, you may as well get used to being called a sissy right now. Hey, not that you are or that there is anything wrong being one... aaw, just messin\' with ya
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Hell, to me anything after ZeldaII is a NEW Zelda! :D
Anyway, I played the Ocarina of Time, and for an overhauled Zelda on a new console (at the time), not only did I think it a good game, I also thought it to be more "mature" than the previous Zelda\'s.
As for this current media of the next incarnation, I haven\'t seen it yet, but, judging from this picture, it looks to be falling in line with the rest of them, and that\'s ok with me. I actually thought the pictures of the tech demo of Link to be kinda stupid looking.
As I won\'t be getting a GameCube for a loooong time, though, it won\'t matter to me. I\'ll just look in through the windows of all of you playing it.
PS- This post is mostly opinion. Don\'t crucify me for not loving the tech demo or not loving a mature looking Link.
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Well, I just saw the media for the first time, and I have to say...the new Zelda looks damn fun!
As for the graphics looking too "kiddy", I happen to enjoy Saturday morning cartoons a great deal, and that\'s what these look like! The grainy movie did it no justice whatsoever, but, it looks like it could be really, really entertaining. I\'m actually excited about it!
I dunno, to me the Zelda games never seemed overly "mature" per se, but, every single one has been extremely satisfying and enjoyable to me. It would be hard to believe that this one, however childish you may think it looks, will not be the same rewarding experience as the rest.
Hell who knows, we may get that fat, bald, five-o\'clock-shadowed more "mature" Link that everyone so desperately wants, in the future. :D
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I was turned off by the new animation until I saw it in action. The Spaceworld movie is really cool. It looks like the game will capture the fun of Zelda once more...
Also interesting to note is that no one said something like Herdy Gerdy was towards "toddlers" (BTW that\'s another thing, as if kiddy wasn\'t bad enough- now we\'re toddlers...). It\'s fair enough though, the only time someone would complain about a game crashing would be if it was on the Xbox.
Anyway, I think it looks great. Unique is good. I\'ll be happy. That\'s all I need to make up my mind.
-Eik