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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Bossieman on September 09, 2001, 07:48:17 AM
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Hello everyone. Today I will start a topic about science. Every week from now there will be a new one. I will try to give answers to everyones questions about the topic. Every week there will be a new topic. Today the topic is about Albert Einstein and the Relativity theory.
This is a pretty hard topic because the relativity theory says things that is hard for us to belive and understand.
There is 2 versions of the theory, the special relativitytheory and the generalrelativitytheory.
The special one was the first one that Einstein released in the year 1905, it said that mass and energy is equal E=mc^2
That time is not absolute, meaning that my time doesnt need to go with the same speed as yours.
That nothing can cross the speed of ligt barrier.
That objects that is moving has a differnt mass and lenghts then a object that is not moving.
The general relativity theory was relesead in 1915 and was the complete theory that included gravity.
The general theory explains and give us answers about the universe.
It says that gravity and acceleration is the same thing. That a apple is not falling because of a force (Newton). That space is not flat, that gravity bends time and room.
That universe cant be static.
Almost 90 years after the theory was first announced nobody has been able to prove Einstein wrong. The theory is still going strong.
Please give me your thoughts and questions on this and I will try to give some good answers.
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well i am esteemed to be the first to reply to the first of the set of science questions in which i will be taking part.
i dont understand how space-time can be bent. it just dosent make sence for me.
and another thing. how can goku travel instantaneously if noone can fo over the speed of light?;)
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"how space-time can be bent? "
Because of gravity, without gravity space-time would be flat, what gravity actually does is to bend the space-time. Gravity is non-flat space-time.
The second question must you say in another form because I dont understand the question.
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the second question was a joke.
and what the hell is space-time? you didnt make it easy to understand when you awnsered me. but to make it simpler, what is space-time?
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Originally posted by Falcon4
the second question was a joke.
and what the hell is space-time? you didnt make it easy to understand when you awnsered me. but to make it simpler, what is space-time?
Einstein made the revolutionary suggestion that gravity is not a force like other forces. but is a consequense of the fact that space-time is not flat as had been previosly assumed- it is curved or "wrapped" by the distribution of mass and energy in it. Bodies like earth are not made to move on curved orbits by a force called gravity. instead they are follwing the nearest thing to a straight path in a curved space, which is called a geodesic.
A geodesic is the shortest (or longest) path betwen 2 nearby points.
all this is happening in the space-time = The four-dimensional space. (3 room+1 time)
space time is a fictionname for room+time
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ah ok, so space time is the 4dimensional universe.
and so how is it able to be bent? by being bent, can it become shorter to get to other solar systems from earth?
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Light is the fastest clockable thing/phenomena that we know of,
Einstein says it is the fastest and we can\'t go faster, i think that might not be true, if a black hole is strong enough to attract all light so that none escapes from its gravity, i think there might be another force that is faster then light. ;)
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Now it is getting really interesting.
General relativity theory allowes what we call bridges but that is now known as wormholes. Einstein and Nathan Rosen did some work on this ."Einsten-Rosen Bridges."
The E-R bridges doesnt last long enough for a space ship to get through.
However it has been suggested that it might be possible for an advanced civilization to keep a wormhole open.
To do this or to warp space-time in any other way so as permit timetravels. It can be proven that one needs a region of spacetime with negative curvate like the surface of a saddle. Ordinary matter which has a positive energy density give spacetime a positive curvate like the surface ofa spehere.
This means in order to warp spacetime in a way that will allow travel into the past (thats what you are saying:)) is matter with negative energy density.
BTW: An einstein-Rosen bridge is a wormhole connecting two distant regions.
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Originally posted by Toxical
Light is the fastest clockable thing/phenomena that we know of,
Einstein says it is the fastest and we can\'t go faster, i think that might not be true, if a black hole is strong enough to attract all light so that none escapes from its gravity, i think there might be another force that is faster then light. ;)
Einstein doesnt say that light is the fastest thing. What he says is that nothing can break through the light-barrier. this means that matter that is traveling faster than light can never go under the speed of light and virce verca.
And about the black hole, there are some really interesting theories on black holes :)
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yes there are. one of them is that a black hole also has a white hole ont he other side of it tand that black holes could be actual wormholes.
all i wanna know is i wanna go through one of them. see what its like yo know what i mean? inless i get killed before i go through it...
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Originally posted by Falcon4
yes there are. one of them is that a black hole also has a white hole ont he other side of it tand that black holes could be actual wormholes.
all i wanna know is i wanna go through one of them. see what its like yo know what i mean? inless i get killed before i go through it...
U cant go through a black hole. Its impossible, the timedilation makes it impossible.
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Well im no expert but isn\'t the whole time dialation thing just a hypothesis. We are never gonna know untill we actually have experience with black holes.
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I think Einstein said that if you travel as fast as light,
and go to our nearest neighboring start 4 light years away or so,
time for you will stand still while time for the people you left behind will go on ....??? That does not make any sense to me, unless he meant something else...
if you travel as fast as light for 10 light years ... only ten years pass for people on earth, so how much time passes for the passenger on that spaceship? ;) If they go as fast as light.
This is weird, it seems time will slow for people on the spaceship, while the time on earth will continue without change.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
U cant go through a black hole. Its impossible, the timedilation makes it impossible.
ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.
have you heard of the theroy of the "white hole?\' where the stuff ets spit out in a white hole?
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I think Einstein said that if you travel as fast as light,
and go to our nearest neighboring start 4 light years away or so,
time for you will stand still while time for the people you left behind will go on ....??? That does not make any sense to me, unless he meant something else...
if you travel as fast as light for 10 light years ... only ten years pass for people on earth, so how much time passes for the passenger on that spaceship? If they go as fast as light.
This is weird, it seems time will slow for people on the spaceship, while the time on earth will continue without change.
Whatever, this stuff is nothing more than mere speculation.
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well they actually did a test with the sr71, and 2 precisely timed clocks. they had the sr71 fly round the world as fast as it could go.
when they brought it back the clock int the sr71 was slow but by sucha a minescuel amount...........
they also did it with the space shuttle. same thing. exept for a month. this time the difference was greater.
so, inother words, the people who live in the rocky mountains, age slower than we do, but its so miniscule its next to nothing.
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Time travel is possible, at least travelling into the future.
If you\'re travelling on a space ship that\'s going really fast, and stay on that ship for let\'s say 10 years, time on earth will then have gone by much faster, maybe the time on earth has past like 15-20 years.
There are some pretty simple equations to calculate these kind of problems.
Maybe Bossieman can slap \'em up and give an example.
T1=T2/((1-(v/c)^2)^0.5) <--- is that the correct one, don\'t remember.
T1=the time that has past on earth
T2=the amount of time that\'s gone by on the space ship
v=the velocity of the space ship
c=the lightspeed constant
Let me know Bossieman if this is correct coz I don\'t remember :(
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Originally posted by JP
Time travel is possible, at least travelling into the future.
If you\'re travelling on a space ship that\'s going really fast, and stay on that ship for let\'s say 10 years, time on earth will then have gone by much faster, maybe the time on earth has past like 15-20 years.
I\'m curious as to the "why" it happens...
Does that mean that if you park a spaceship 200K miles over the earth, and accelerate to the speed of light in 2 seconds, what would you see in the back window of the spaceship? (lets pretend we actually had a back window facing the earth ;) )
1) The earth would slowly disappear from view since we are traveling at the speed of light.
2) We would be frozen in place and therefore we would not notice anything.
3) If we were to look through the back window of the spaceship, the earth would remain as it was just before we hit the acceleration button. :)
Wish i knew for sure.
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ok if we accelerated to the speed of light, technically everythign would stop. but there is no possible way to get to the speed of light, if einstien is correct. so the fastest way to travel around would be to use the ripples in space-time to get arount the universe.
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There was a show about this topic on PBS just the other day. I watched 4 hours of Einstein\'s discoveries, space, and other stuff. I never knew Einstein descovered so much. If you have a chance to watch that show (and if they show it where you live), they have a computer generated movie showing the "space-bending gravity" theory.
So what exactly is a "white hole?"
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Mucho interesting topic! :)
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I hope "Vetenskapens Värld" (World of Science) show the program IronFist was talking about..
They show alot of interesting stuff.. This is the main man!
Bo G. Erikson!
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.svt.se%2Fnkp%2Fvetskap%2FBo_G_Erikson2__.jpg&hash=742b8fec2b5c7a4d4c086f1fe6010f33a49ed787)
:D
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First, time dilation is not science-fiction, it is true and have been proven many times.
The formula that JP posted earlier is correct, it shows how time for observer 1 relates to time for observer 2.
example:
We have the formula: T1=T2/((1-(v/c)^2)^0.5)
JP´s velocity is 255E6 m/s
c=300E6 m/s
Assume that JP´s mesaure the time and stops the spaceship after exactly 30min (his clock)
This gives:
T1= 30/((1-(255E6/300E6)^2)^0.5)=56.9 min
What does this mean?!?
If the experiment started at 10 AM , Bossieman stands on the ground and makes sure that his clock and JPs clock shows the same time. When JP returns the 2 clocks wont show the same time any more.
My clock will show 10:59 and JPs will show 10:30.
This is not SF this is science.
This is the reason that shortlife particles can be detected here on earth. Take a particle that travels at the speed of 99.9999% of light. This particle only exists for 2E-12 s.
It looks like this particle can never reach earth from say Proxima Centaurie. Distance 4.2 lightyears. If the particle has the velocity of 99.99999 % it seems like it would take over 4 years for this particle to reach earth. And because of the fact that the particle only exists for 2E-12s it seems like it would be impossible for this particle to reach earth. But still we detect millions of those particles each day. How is it possible?
The answer is Timedilation. Because of the high velocity of the particle the time dilation becomes hugh.
2E-12 s for the particle can be 10 000 years in our time.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
First, time dilation is not science-fiction, it is true and have been proven many times.
The formula that JP posted earlier is correct, it shows how time for observer 1 relates to time for observer 2.
example:
We have the formula: T1=T2/((1-(v/c)^2)^0.5)
JP´s velocity is 255E6 m/s
c=300E6 m/s
Assume that JP´s mesaure the time and stops the spaceship after exactly 30min (his clock)
This gives:
T1= 30/((1-(255E6/300E6)^2)^0.5)=56.9 min
What does this mean?!?
If the experiment started at 10 AM , Bossieman stands on the ground and makes sure that his clock and JPs clock shows the same time. When JP returns the 2 clocks wont show the same time any more.
My clock will show 10:59 and JPs will show 10:30.
This is not SF this is science.
This is the reason that shortlife particles can be detected here on earth. Take a particle that travels at the speed of 99.9999% of light. This particle only exists for 2E-12 s.
It looks like this particle can never reach earth from say Proxima Centaurie. Distance 4.2 lightyears. If the particle has the velocity of 99.99999 % it seems like it would take over 4 years for this particle to reach earth. And because of the fact that the particle only exists for 2E-12s it seems like it would be impossible for this particle to reach earth. But still we detect millions of those particles each day. How is it possible?
The answer is Timedilation. Because of the high velocity of the particle the time dilation becomes hugh.
2E-12 s for the particle can be 10 000 years in our time.
Interesting stuff Bossieman,
Does that related to the atoms of our bodies stopping when we go at close to the speed of light? Well since we are made up of atoms etc... and these particles spin around each other, maybe when we are moving extremely fast in space they can not age, or even move since it would require too much energy for them? Just a thought, which was bugging me.. ;)
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Originally posted by Toxical
Interesting stuff Bossieman,
Does that related to the atoms of our bodies stopping when we go at close to the speed of light? Well since we are made up of atoms etc... and these particles spin around each other, maybe when we are moving extremely fast in space they can not age, or even move since it would require too much energy for them? Just a thought, which was bugging me.. ;)
It depends on the referencesystem. From my wiew the atoms almost stops, every chemical reaction seems to go slower. If i look at a radioactive subject that has a half-life of 30 sec and the subject has a velocity of 99.9999% of light I would measure the half-life to 50000 years. The time actually slows down!!
This is why we have all this particleaccelerators all over the world CERN is one of the biggest in the world. They accelerate particles to 99.99999% of the lightspeed and the looks what happens when the subject collides with another subject.
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This is what could happen, notice this is not science-fiction this is true.
Assume that my grandmother has cancer. I have very much money. Can I save her?
If I build a spaceship that can go very close to lightspeed i could save her.
I build the ship, put my grandma in the ship and program it to accelerate to 99.99% of lightspeed. When it has reached that speed I say to the ship that it will go with that speed for 2 hours then stop the ship and return to earth. When the ship arrives at earth my grandma would have aged 2 hours(wrong but I assume that acc. 0-light speed is imidiately) and I would be dead and the year would be like 2435 here on earth :)
Take a couple of twins. No 1 takes a ride in a spaceship att a very high velocity (close to speedlight). No 2 stays on earth. When no 1 returns to earth he could be like 25 years old but his twinbrother no 2 would be like 75 years old. This is not a joke it could happen :)
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I heard some people say that if we had mounted a camera inside of this superfast spaceship, then we would see the people inside move very very slowly, that is so cool ;)
So in a way we have a way of moving up in time, i wonder
if it will ever be possible to reverse that, and go backwards in time, to the time of dinosaurs etc...
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travel back in time is something that aint going to happen.
Let me explain why.
Assume that I could go back in time.
I travel back to may 7 1975 and prevent my parents from having sex. I am born may 7 1975. If I prevent them from having sex then I would never exist.
Or this one. I take the PS3 chip in the year 2005 and go back to the year 2001 and give Sony the chip. They would go happy and pay me much. they save the chip and release it in the PS3 in the year 2005.
the question now is : From where came the knowledge behind the chip????
Or I go back in time and kill Hitler, then I would not exist either.
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Heres a question.......is the burmuda triangle real???????
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Originally posted by Bossieman
travel back in time is something that aint going to happen.
Let me explain why.
Assume that I could go back in time.
I travel back to may 7 1975 and prevent my parents from having sex. I am born may 7 1975. If I prevent them from having sex then I would never exist.
Or this one. I take the PS3 chip in the year 2005 and go back to the year 2001 and give Sony the chip. They would go happy and pay me much. they save the chip and release it in the PS3 in the year 2005.
the question now is : From where came the knowledge behind the chip????
Or I go back in time and kill Hitler, then I would not exist either.
bossie,
do you believe in a multiplicity of History? Let me explain,
some say that
it would be possible to go back in time because even if you went back in time, and prevent your parents from ever having you in the first place... history would just diverge and spawn a new history without you, and this would prevent any paradox or destruction of you from the future.
In other words, when i take a pen in my hand, there was an alternative history-event that occurred at the same time i lifted the pen, but in that history-event i did not lift the pen... damn this will get confusing soon. ;)
Originally posted by webhead
Heres a question.......is the burmuda triangle real???????
I think the Bermuda thingy is just gas that escapes in huge spurts and sinks ships/airplanes. ;) IMO. Maybe something else. What i don\'t believe in are:
1) Atlantis people abduct you
2) Little green men abducting you
These 2 explanations for the phenomena are off-the-wall. ;)
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Hmm.
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Originally posted by Toxical
bossie,
do you believe in a multiplicity of History? Let me explain,
some say that
it would be possible to go back in time because even if you went back in time, and prevent your parents from ever having you in the first place... history would just diverge and spawn a new history without you, and this would prevent any paradox or destruction of you from the future.
In other words, when i take a pen in my hand, there was an alternative history-event that occurred at the same time i lifted the pen, but in that history-event i did not lift the pen... damn this will get confusing soon. ;)
I know of this theory but I think it is humbug.
This is why:
there is some physical laws that can not be broken. the law of energy is one. If I go back in history my energy dissapear in this time and I create energy in the time i arrive to. This is just not possible. :)
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I hope people in general will spend more time/money on science, because if all they do is spend it on stupid things like war, it will mean our downfall in the end.
I wish Nasa would get more funding, so that we could accelerate the space program. I hope non-government companies get into the space race, so that maybe in 20 we will have colonies on the damn moon, never mind MARS :rolleyes:
That is one thing i don\'t understand, why are they trying to go to mars? and not the moon? the key word here is "baby steps" Granted, Mars is more sexy and exciting, but i think a sustainable space exploration/colonization program is best learned by going to the moon, colonizing and finding all the challenges involved, only then should you go extremely far like Mars. IMO.
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Originally posted by webhead
Heres a question.......is the burmuda triangle real???????
actually from what i remember, there is a magnetic flux that occurs in the burmuda triangle that screws up computers, compasses, and such. the magnetic field is different in that area of the world, and so it can screw things up when it changes.
thats what i heard.
bossieman, your words on magnetic field possibilities?
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Originally posted by Toxical
I think the Bermuda thingy is just gas that escapes in huge spurts and sinks ships/airplanes. ;) IMO. Maybe something else. What i don\'t believe in are:
1) Atlantis people abduct you
2) Little green men abducting you
These 2 explanations for the phenomena are off-the-wall. ;)
I\'ve seen that on the Discovery Channel. I think it\'s methane(sp) gass that sink the ships and airplanes.
They did a test in a lab where they had a smaller sized replica of a tanker and steered it over water where this gass was coming through the surface and it actually sank.
The gass which is lighter than air made the ship less boyant.
And since it\'s lighter than air, it\'s got lower density so airplanes will also get in trouble with the up lift. This is something I saw a few years ago though, it might have been proven wrong now.
Please excuse my spelling if it\'s uncorrect, English isn\'t my native language. ;)
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hmm, methane gas eh? coming from what underground area?
but it does sound reasonable. cuz ships wouldnt ink f their compasses were screwed up...
did the show say anythign else about where the methane was coming from? like mebbe that area is earth\'s poop hole, and every so often it farts and sinks ships or somthing?
;)
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Originally posted by Falcon4
hmm, methane gas eh? coming from what underground area?
but it does sound reasonable. cuz ships wouldnt ink f their compasses were screwed up...
did the show say anythign else about where the methane was coming from? like mebbe that area is earth\'s poop hole, and every so often it farts and sinks ships or somthing?
;)
They said it came from the ground on the bottom of the ocean,
well some areas have lots of natural gas, etc... maybe some areas have pockets of gas which escapes due to tectonic plate movement/earthquakes. etc...
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They said that there were lots of methane-carbonate or something, don\'t remember exactly, below the bottom of the sea in the area where all these ships sink. Some places these reservoars of methane-carbonate are exposed to sea water. When this hard material comes in contact with water it releases the methane gass and the gass rushes to the surface.
Something like that at least, 2-3 years since i saw that show, hard to remember.
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GREAT f\'ing great thread Bossieman. D4mn you really like to start these huge threads about religion and science don\'t you?
Keep it up, these things are really interesting.
The only problem is, I\'m sitting here straining my little brain to try to comprehend all this crap.
Ow, my head hurts... :crap:
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Originally posted by Solid Snake 88
GREAT f\'ing great thread Bossieman. D4mn you really like to start these huge threads about religion and science don\'t you?
Keep it up, these things are really interesting.
The only problem is, I\'m sitting here straining my little brain to try to comprehend all this crap.
Ow, my head hurts... :crap:
i feel sorry for you.
and thats really cool about the methane thing. i bet that is actually the real cause of the ships sinking...
but would it be enough to make planes have trouble too? i mean it would disperse quite quickly in the air..........
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Originally posted by Falcon4
i feel sorry for you.
and thats really cool about the methane thing. i bet that is actually the real cause of the ships sinking...
but would it be enough to make planes have trouble too? i mean it would disperse quite quickly in the air..........
I wonder if that stuff would actually ignite and blow the plane from the sky, and since the water is less buoyant the wreckage falls and sinks right away.. :eek:
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The bermuda triangle is fascinating but I dont to go into that now, maybe we can start a Bermuda science topic some week.
Here is some info about the Bermuda triangle:
http://www.bermuda-triangle.org/
http://come.to/the.bermuda.triangle
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Man great thread bossie, i think about this kind of stuff everyday, and at night i lay awake and think about it, and the whole universe all around me, it makes me feel very small but at the same time is gives me a unique feeling.
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Bumpty Bump anyone?
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good job bossieman. i wondered where this thread had gone..
the new info on the black hole in the center of our galixy is amazing aint it?
but i wonder if it actually could be in the center of every galaxy.
cuz what else would hold all that stuff in orbit, a neutron star?
oh yeah and i heard a teaspoon of rock or somthin gfrom a nutron star would weigh like a trillion tons...
thats pretty messed up.
and how do pulsars work?
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Originally posted by Falcon4
the new info on the black hole in the center of our galixy is amazing aint it?
but i wonder if it actually could be in the center of every galaxy.
cuz what else would hold all that stuff in orbit, a neutron star?
oh yeah and i heard a teaspoon of rock or somthin gfrom a nutron star would weigh like a trillion tons...
thats pretty messed up.
and how do pulsars work?
The new info on black holes in the centre of every galixy is an old theory. Most scienctists thought this was the right theory a long time ago. When we look into space, the further we look the more we look back in historiy.
Quasars are Galixys that is very young (Young because the light takes billions of years to reach us). When we look at quasars we see Black holes in some of them. Actually it is very possible that black holes creates galixys. If that is true that means that every galixys must have a black hole.
Pulsars: A pulsar is a rotation neutronstar. very powerful magneticfields is created when the star is rotating. The magnetic-field is very strong at the poles of the stars. because of the rotation the star "pulse" out gamma radiation. We can detect the gamma radiation on earth. We can not see a neutronstar it is way to small.
In a neutron star there is no atoms. Only neutrons. tehre is no electrons or protons. The neutrons is pack up on eachother with no space between thaem. That is the reason for the very high density of a neutron satr. Imagine this: Take the sun and put it into a spjere that is a couple of miles big. One spoon of thet sphere would weight billions of kg.
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cool. i always though pulsars had somthing weird with them that after they were a sun ofr somthing, they would just kinda turn on and off... really. i was that stupid.