PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: CS2x on September 30, 2001, 12:31:36 PM
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The cold attitude to the X-Box in forums sickens me. Everyone is already declaring it will fail. Well I think otherwise.
I have a Dreamcast and a PS2, and love them, but I also have my eye on Microsofts new baby. I think it is looking great, and can\'t understand why people are rubbishing it left, right and centre. It DOES have some great launch games (Abe, Jet Set Grind Radio Future, Halo, Silent Hill2, Black And White(and loads of other great PS2/PC ports), Panzer Dragoon, ect.) and it IS the most powerful console, which means devlopers only limits are their imaginations(and of course, publishers). They have a lot of power to play with, and that power is very easy to use. I mean, what is wrong with this console? I think people hate it merely because it comes from a rich, disliked company, and a new company to the console market..but, so what? It is very powerful, has lots of support, a hardrive, and internet, and some very good launch games. The only thing I hate about it is the name.....X-Box....LOL.
X-Box will surprise you. I garrantee it.
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Originally posted by CS2x
X-Box will surprise you. I garrantee it.
nope....:D
I already liked the Xbox... Still do... But I\'m not gonna buy it till I actually have money! I\'ll be poor by the time it comes out! All those good looking games will have to wait.... PS2 for now baby!
Oh and BTW - Playstation 2 actually surprises me..... With the large user base and the best looking games coming out.. Can no wait.:)
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It DOES have some great launch games (Abe, Jet Set Grind Radio Future, Halo, Silent Hill2, Black And White(and loads of other great PS2/PC ports),
Neither Jet Set, Silent Hill, nor Black & White are launch games.
/ dm /
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Originally posted by CS2x
It DOES have some great launch games (Abe, Jet Set Grind Radio Future, Halo, Silent Hill2, Black And White(and loads of other great PS2/PC ports
like datamage said...jet set, black and white and silent hill2 are NOT launch titles...otherwise, i wouldve preordered one...
im not an xbox hater though..in fact i HATE how a lot of people are ruling it the \'failure\' already....i think it has a lot of potential and it is indeed the most powerful console .....
but its all about what developers decide to use its power for...and so far it looks like its being used for ports, which just does not intrigue me...as a matter of fact, the few games on the gaycube interest me more than the xbox\' launch titles....but, i too will keep an eye on this machine because i want it to succeed....this way...we\'ll have more games to enjoy!
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Originally posted by lestat
this way...we\'ll have more games to enjoy!
Too much games to enjoy you mean..... By then... We\'d all be livin in van down by the river.:D
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I also own a DC and a PS2, and I will for sure get an X-Box as well. It looks really good IMO.
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I have a DC and A PS2 and will get a GC and a X-Box. However, X-Box so far has done little to impress me, and I\'m not saying graphically I\'m say as far as the fun factor goes. Even GC has done more to get me interested with games like Metriod Prime, PSO, and SSB. I\'ll probably get GC around Christmas time and get X-Box around the time when Project Ego comes out.
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according to reports Xbox has more pre-orders then GC in the US and that says alot about the true feelings of gamers.
From what I have seen Xbox interests me quite a bit. Although It will be next to impossible for me to get one at launch even though I have 1 pre0ordered
The real problem is my unwillingness to sacrafice some fo the PS2 games I really want to get an Xbox at launch
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I don\'t think the launch looks too nice, but what is coming after is making me buy it at launch :)
X-Box will be my favorite 128-bit console after DC, I can almost tell already.
Eric Jacob
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I don\'t really care either way about the Xbox. It has nothing that has impressed me, save DOA3 visually, and until it does, I have no intentions of buying it.
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I can say that I am not impressed with the Xbox launch, but when Sega and Capcom games start coming out, I know I will have to purchase one.
I\'ve never said the Xbox will fail. I think it has a lot to prove both to American gamers and Japanese gamers (not to mention the UK). There is a big burden on Microsoft\'s "shoulder", that is the burden of proof so to speak. They have to prove that they can be a serious contender in the gaming market. They have that to gamers and more importantly to developers. Depending on how Microsoft handles them this christmas and through next year, a lot could change for them. In the long run, if they establish themself a serious as a serious contender, they have a bigger chance the next console war.
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If x-box sells more than 2 million units its first year than I will be impressed, but I dont think it will make that.
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Originally posted by lestat
like datamage said...jet set, black and white and silent hill2 are NOT launch titles...otherwise, i wouldve preordered one...
im not an xbox hater though..in fact i HATE how a lot of people are ruling it the \'failure\' already....i think it has a lot of potential and it is indeed the most powerful console .....
but its all about what developers decide to use its power for...and so far it looks like its being used for ports, which just does not intrigue me...as a matter of fact, the few games on the gaycube interest me more than the xbox\' launch titles....but, i too will keep an eye on this machine because i want it to succeed....this way...we\'ll have more games to enjoy!
Even the staunchest PS2 whore must admit that the PS2 has more PC ports than Xbox and DC combined. So really that argument is a misconception that alot of people have. All consoles will have PC ports, but Xbox\'s original games are what intrigue me and the people that will buy one.
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X-Box will surprise you. I garrantee it.
Yep.. MS said the same thing.. Was it... 1 year ago??
Something like that..
MS "Oh.. Wait for E3!"
Yes??
So??
Im still waiting.. (humming "we are the champions")
*yawn* :rolleyes:
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*yawn*
did i ever mention that xbox = 2001 version of the 3d0 ?
oh yeah, i forgot
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if the leader of our fine forums says so...then it must be true...
i dont even know if what i just said was sarcasm or not...
*is stupid*
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Originally posted by mm
did i ever mention that xbox = 2001 version of the 3d0 ?
Hmmm, which is as accurate as someone claiming PS2 = 2000 version of the Saturn! ;)
(In otherwords...simply untrue)
BTW, the 3DO console was launched back in 1993 for a whooping $699!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Gee, I wonder why it failed! :rolleyes:
(I\'m off now, just passing through).
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Even the staunchest PS2 whore must admit that the PS2 has more PC ports than Xbox and DC combined
If you had read correctly, he simply said ports. Not PC ports. A good chunk of X-box games are ports from existing games, or upcoming games. This is what lestat was referring to.
/ dm /
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and seeing as the XBox hasnt been released...technically is doesnt have any ports
*loves having a large library of games to choose from*
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Anyone that says the xbox doesn\'t impress you visually is lying and clinging too dearly to his PS2. That is a fact. The xbox has amazing graphics, better than anything anywhere.
On the games side I\'m not really sold either, but I wouldn\'t say I\'m completely uninterested. There is a representative for nearly every genre. Some are getting negative reviews (Azurik), but some are getting great reviews (Halo and DOA3).
If anyone here says they are not impressed by xbox and has either Tekken or Timesplitters/Goldeneye then again I would say you are being unfair. The review from the lauded IGN (why does everyone here hang on their every word?) has done nothing but praise these two games calling them the best of the genre ever.
I don\'t hold IGN in that high reguard (esp. IGNPS2 in the early days *shiver*) so I\'m going to wait until I get in front of a kiosk to pass judgement because I like FPS and fighters. (on a side note, speaking of kiosks, I did play SH2 at EB and I was let down--take into consideration that SH games are not my favourite genre though. I think the 7 it got was fair).
All the negativity surrounding the xbox around here seems like fear and jealousy for the most part. You know it won\'t hurt your PS2\'s feelings if you actually say nice things about another console.
The GC I have even more reservations about, but it seems to fair better in these forums. The three games I\'ve seen, while very impressive visually, don\'t appeal to me. People also speak of Nintendo\'s great history of games--the N64 was terrible IMO. There were a few bright spots (Zelda, Goldeneye) but all things considered I never wished I owned it instead of my PSX.
Will the xbox surprise me? I hope so, because nothing save the DC has. Am I completely sold? No. If two or three games have me thinking about playing them while I\'m at work or in bed, then I think I\'ll become an xbox consumer, if not I\'ll officially take a wait and see stance.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Anyone that says the xbox doesn\'t impress you visually is lying and clinging too dearly to his PS2. That is a fact. The xbox has amazing graphics, better than anything anywhere.
its the lure of the fanboy...the console you support will always have a slight edge. You notice things that other people dont notice. You sit and watch and take in the whole picture, fans of other genres may just take one look and judge. But as far as im concerned...Xbox has never made my jaw drop graphically...ill tell you what has though...only three games in history...FFX, J&D and MGS2...no XBox or GC games have had that affect on me...and no fanboyism or anyone elses opinion can change that
On the games side I\'m not really sold either, but I wouldn\'t say I\'m completely uninterested. There is a representative for nearly every genre. Some are getting negative reviews (Azurik), but some are getting great reviews (Halo and DOA3).
If anyone here says they are not impressed by xbox and has either Tekken or Timesplitters/Goldeneye then again I would say you are being unfair. The review from the lauded IGN (why does everyone here hang on their every word?) has done nothing but praise these two games calling them the best of the genre ever.
and a lot of people called Final Fantasy 8 the greatest game ever. Difference between Halo and Goldeneye. Goldeneye was genre breaking, its recreated the FPS as we know it today. Halo doesnt innovate...we\'ve seen everythig it has before, and unlike games such as goldeneye, will not be remmeber forever. Tekken Tag is teh definitive fighting experience, IMO...ive never been a fan of the DoA series. Piece of ****. the original was NOT a good game. the only reason it had ANY hype whatsoever was purely because of the beautiful bouncing boobies. Second game is not my kind of thing. Now comparing DoA3 to TTT is unfair...try commparing DoA2 to TTT and DoA3 to Tekken 4, SC2, VF4 etc. etc.
I don\'t hold IGN in that high reguard (esp. IGNPS2 in the early days *shiver*) so I\'m going to wait until I get in front of a kiosk to pass judgement because I like FPS and fighters. (on a side note, speaking of kiosks, I did play SH2 at EB and I was let down--take into consideration that SH games are not my favourite genre though. I think the 7 it got was fair).
its your opinion, and you obviously recognise it, which therefore means it really doesnt have much place in this post for your arguement. but remember, playing the a demo of a game that half the reason its good is the atmosphere, at the store with bright lights and lots of people, isnt right. turn the lights of, seclude yourself in your room, andd absorb the game
All the negativity surrounding the xbox around here seems like fear and jealousy for the most part. You know it won\'t hurt your PS2\'s feelings if you actually say nice things about another console.
as soon as it does/gets something nice, i will compliment it, as it stands it does not interest me...and thats my opinion, not just my fanobyism for PS2 talking.
The GC I have even more reservations about, but it seems to fair better in these forums. The three games I\'ve seen, while very impressive visually, don\'t appeal to me. People also speak of Nintendo\'s great history of games--the N64 was terrible IMO. There were a few bright spots (Zelda, Goldeneye) but all things considered I never wished I owned it instead of my PSX.
anyhoo...back to the Xbox :p
Will the xbox surprise me? I hope so, because nothing save the DC has. Am I completely sold? No. If two or three games have me thinking about playing them while I\'m at work or in bed, then I think I\'ll become an xbox consumer, if not I\'ll officially take a wait and see stance.
thats great, but dont go around calling pepole liars because their opinion differs to yours
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Thanks bobby, I agree with everything you said
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tsk, tsk, tsk bobby.
Jak and Daxter (sp?) jaw-dropified you, but Rogue Squadron, Jet Set Radio:F, or Resident Evil for GC didn\'t? Were you smoking peyote while looking at the other games (read: increasing the experience)??
The games you listed hardly impress anymore when going against the games that are coming out around the same time.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
tsk, tsk, tsk bobby.
Jak and Daxter (sp?) jaw-dropified you, but Rogue Squadron, Jet Set Radio:F, or Resident Evil for GC didn\'t? Were you smoking peyote while looking at the other games (read: increasing the experience)??
The games you listed hardly impress anymore when going against the games that are coming out around the same time.
Eric Jacob
Need I remind you that "One Man\'s Septic Tank is Another Man\'s Hot Tub?" Click on the link (http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=13628), then reply to what Bob said.
BTW, when did you turn into such an Xbox lover? I\'m not referring to just this thread, I\'m referring to all your posts within the last week. Wanting an Xbox is not a bad thing (I want one), but you have been acting very ati-PS2 lately.
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I am not an Xbox hater, in fact i am the complete opposite, i carnt wait for the console to come out, so i can play Halo, DoA3 and Amped, ask my girlfriend i talk about it all the time, i live in the uk, but am trying very hard to get my hands on an american console when it comes out.:D
And looking at some of the games, that is what i think the ps2 should have looked like in the graphics department, considering all the hype, that i stupidly fell for:( i am still wait for my toy story graphics!
But dont get me wrong there are some very good games that are starting to come out now(well in the US that is) for the ps2, and to tell you the truth i am just happy to be a gamer right now.
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Originally posted by fastson
Yep.. MS said the same thing.. Was it... 1 year ago??
Something like that..
MS "Oh.. Wait for E3!"
Yes??
So??
Im still waiting.. (humming "we are the champions")
*yawn* :rolleyes:
How we soon forget! Wait til Bouncer that game is going to rule....I also am waiting. Dark Cloud? Still waiting.... Huge relaunch back in March....still waiting...you think people just forget about Sony\'s promises and remember all others? Please this is a weak excuse at best since every console, at one time or another, has had this kind of pattern.
I personally love my PS2 mainly because I\'m a sports guy and think the best titles out there are the sports titles from EA...although ICO looks amazing and the best game to come to the PS2 in my opinion.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
tsk, tsk, tsk bobby.
Jak and Daxter (sp?) jaw-dropified you, but Rogue Squadron, Jet Set Radio:F, or Resident Evil for GC didn\'t? Were you smoking peyote while looking at the other games (read: increasing the experience)??
The games you listed hardly impress anymore when going against the games that are coming out around the same time.
Eric Jacob
jaw dropping is a bodily function out of my control Eric *giggles*...while RS is in my top 5 best looking games, i havent downloaded very many videos etc. and the ones i did download were rather spanking, but....oh well, thems the break hey, guess i just havent downloaded the jaw dropping ones...like i did with J&D...the first video i downloaded there was the main character running around...nothing special, all of a sudden he moves around silky smooth animation, silky smooth framerate, and an entire villiage type aread comes into view, waterfalls, birds buildings from miles away in view...me = jawdropped :) seeing the rain bouncing of snakes shoulders and th bottles etc. smashing from gun fire, seeing the bullets hitting the bullet proof sheilds in MGS2, me = jaw dropped...FFX needs no explaination, it just looks unreal, once again, me = jaw dropped :)
Res. Evil on GC, well, i have doubts as to whether or not the backgrounds are pre rendered...if they are, the graphics are good, if they arent, then the graphics are outstanding, some of the best ive seen (want to see bump mapping being put to good use). Jet Grind Radio Future? sorry, but im not into the whole Cell Shaded look...
Originally posted by ProfessorX
How we soon forget! Wait til Bouncer that game is going to rule....I also am waiting. Dark Cloud? Still waiting.... Huge relaunch back in March....still waiting...you think people just forget about Sony\'s promises and remember all others? Please this is a weak excuse at best since every console, at one time or another, has had this kind of pattern.
I personally love my PS2 mainly because I\'m a sports guy and think the best titles out there are the sports titles from EA...although ICO looks amazing and the best game to come to the PS2 in my opinion.
difference is, at least PS2 has something to show for itself :) personally i liked Bouncer, its 3 - 4 player multplayer fun is unrivaled by anygame, and dark cloud is one of those titles you either like or dont :). Seams likea pretty stupifd arguement seeing as XBox isnt even out yet, but hey, im a pretty stupid guy :) and when it comes to buying a console, all those games, disappointing or not are going to go against the purchasers decision in getting an XBox
:fro: toot on
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Now comparing DoA3 to TTT is unfair...try commparing DoA2 to TTT and DoA3 to Tekken 4, SC2, VF4 etc. etc.
So it\'s unfair to compare first gen xbox to first gen ps2? SO Your admitting that first gen xbox is better or on par with second gen ps2.
It\'s unfair to say oh xbox has nothing I want a launch.. when you went out and bought a ps2 that had a horrible list of launch games. Just admit you MARK OUT for a ps2 at launch and it was a big mistake and you just don\'t want to take the chance on xbox even though some of the software looks amazing. You jut don\'twant to mark out like that again. I can\'t blame you but don\'t say the games don\'t look impressive because they do. PG,FEVER,HALO,NEW LEGENDS, DOA3, MUNCH, MOH, AMPED are all impressive looking titles.
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So it\'s unfair to compare first gen xbox to first gen ps2? SO Your admitting that first gen xbox is better or on par with second gen ps2.
of course the launch is going to be better, games get more advanced, and improved upon with time, especially when the prequal was on the previous consoles launch
plus i was one of the few people who actually compared the PS2\'s launch to the entire DC lineup
It\'s unfair to say oh xbox has nothing I want a launch.. when you went out and bought a ps2 that had a horrible list of launch games. Just admit you MARK OUT for a ps2 at launch and it was a big mistake and you just don\'t want to take the chance on xbox even though some of the software looks amazing. You jut don\'twant to mark out like that again. I can\'t blame you but don\'t say the games don\'t look impressive because they do. PG,FEVER,HALO,NEW LEGENDS, DOA3, MUNCH, MOH, AMPED are all impressive looking titles.
uhh...none of the games you listed interest me in the least :) except MoH, and there is a MoH coming out on PS2 :) beautiful
as far as im concerned the list of XBox launch games is even in quality (nmote: i havent played them so i cant judge properly) to what i saw on PS2...except, i would PROBABLY prefer to play TTT ovef DoA3, we\'ll see if Amped has an arcade sort of experience, like SSX did, if not, then ill prefer SSX, and TimeSplitters had all the FPS action i needed...though i\'d say it was more rushed than Halo. But saying i marked out for the PS2 is pretty stupid man :) and your making **** up about me (assuming you were referring mainly to me) when you dont even know me
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well out of the launch games, halo was going to be good, till online died away. i dont like munch, amped looks nothing better than cool boarders, and ssx, although i love snowboarding, the game (except that photoshop screen) is ok, the only game i look forward to actually playing. fever looks exactly like madden2001 (judging by screens) and doa3 looks good, but i dont like the fighter genre very much, i will try it out though,
and man, i am mad. the red x has taken me as well....(see pic...)
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IronFist, X-Box has been in my sights since I heard Panzer Dragoon was being made for it and DC wasn\'t being MADE.
PS2 offers me nothing besides Virtua Fighter 4, Spy Hunter (love this game), Headhunter (which I will have on DC), Rez (again on DC), and, ummmm...
X-Box gives me the Sega love that I deserve, and remember, I am first a Sega fanboy, and second a games player.
Eric Jacob
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Yeah I played Spy Hunter and it was pretty fun.
Anyway, Bob I can\'t believe that you aren\'t driven by fanboyism.
Bouncer? LOL that was a terrible final Fight knock off.
J&D, while just recently started interesting me, does not have jaw dropping graphics. Come on! That games just doesn\'t stack up against RE (GC), FF, DOA3. That is a biased comment and most people would agree with me (I think). J&D does look good, but it does not astound.
Then you talk of innovation of goldeneye (PCs did it waaaay before) . From the videos and hand on reports from IGN it doesn\'t innovate. Hm, a small contradiction.
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Xbox has never made my jaw drop graphically...ill tell you what has though...only three games in history...FFX, J&D and MGS2...no XBox or GC games have had that affect on me...and no fanboyism or anyone elses opinion can change that
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Also, IGN and Next Gen said that Halo and DOA3 are better than anything that has come before (including and named TTT, T4, Goldeneye, Unreal, Quake) it in terms of both gameplay and graphics. You don\'t get the two biggest names in VG review saying that without innovating. You are closing you eyes to the truth.
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its your opinion, and you obviously recognise it, which therefore means it really doesnt have much place in this post for your arguement. but remember, playing the a demo of a game that half the reason its good is the atmosphere, at the store with bright lights and lots of people, isnt right. turn the lights of, seclude yourself in your room, and absorb the game
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IGN has room in my argument because everyone here idolizes it so it is fair game. Try to keep things logical. And yes I can say if a game is good if I play it at EB or not. Absorb the game? LOL.
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as soon as it does/gets something nice, i will compliment it, as it stands it does not interest me...and thats my opinion, not just my fanobyism for PS2 talking.
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Uh-huh. OK.
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thats great, but dont go around calling pepole liars because their opinion differs to yours
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This is what I\'m unsure about...
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Bouncer? LOL that was a terrible final Fight knock off.
pfft, thats what peoples problems are...they are treating it like an action game, or an RPG...treat it like a fightting game...the single player is better than any fighting game, it actually has a good storyline...PLUS, its my singler fav. multiplayer game ever...get three friends over, and....ahhh
J&D, while just recently started interesting me, does not have jaw dropping graphics. Come on! That games just doesn\'t stack up against RE (GC), FF, DOA3. That is a biased comment and most people would agree with me (I think). J&D does look good, but it does not astound.
if later on we find out that RE was not prerenderred, then it will jump ahead of J&D, until then, fraid not...its awwwweeeesome, the amount of interaction, and entire world rederred at one time, beeaaauuutiful
Then you talk of innovation of goldeneye (PCs did it waaaay before) . From the videos and hand on reports from IGN it doesn\'t innovate. Hm, a small contradiction.
huh?? Goldeneye redefined console FPS\'s...and toa degree, PC FPS\'s...its not my fav. game, but thats a fact i cant deny
Also, IGN and Next Gen said that Halo and DOA3 are better than anything that has come before (including and named TTT, T4, Goldeneye, Unreal, Quake) it in terms of both gameplay and graphics. You don\'t get the two biggest names in VG review saying that without innovating. You are closing you eyes to the truth.
did you miss my point about how when FF8 was released, it was being hailed as the greatest game of all time??? think about it :)
IGN has room in my argument because everyone here idolizes it so it is fair game. Try to keep things logical. And yes I can say if a game is good if I play it at EB or not. Absorb the game? LOL.
IGN is so big, and they get everything first...people dont exactly idolize it. And i think, unless its a FPS or sports game, you CANNOT tell how good a game is at the store playing it for half an hour or so...give me a break
This is what I\'m unsure about...
WatchDog said:
Anyone that says the xbox doesn\'t impress you visually is lying and clinging too dearly to his PS2.
unsure?
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I\'m unsure that you\'ll ever say anything compromising about the PS2 and positive about the xbox--that\'s what I\'m unsure about.
Goldeneye innovated nothing. Zip. Unless you count 4 way split screen an innovation. PCs did it all, long before goldeneye. That point is completely off. And then you say it redefined PC FPS?!? This is a completely uninformed statement. You tell me one thing that Goldeneye brought to the FPS genre? Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Teamfortress made Goldeneye possible for God\'s sake. Please stop this ridiculous argument because while this may be your opinion, it is uninformed and completely without merit. Goldeneye is subpar as a FPS by PC standards. It is a heck of a lot of fun with 3 buddies though (almost any FPS is though) and that is the only reason it is a classic.
I treated bouncer like a fighting game because that\'s what it is (who the hell thinks it\'s an RPG?!?!). It\'s like my ex girlfriend: beautiful, boring, and shallow. You are the only person I have ever heard that said it was the best anything, let alone multiplayer game lol. Come on!
And I must insist, while a sharp looking and potentially a good platformer, J&D\'s visuals are not the best of the best. It\'s just not that good. There has to be something "new" (not a collection of things borrowed from sonic, mario or crash). RE has those slightly grainy, crazy looking backgrounds (there is no good reason to doubt that it isn\'t real time--people who think it is are xbox and PS2 fanboys and are wishing it is true. I\'m not saying it is definately, but every indication we have points that it is real time.) DOA3\'s visuals are probably the best graphics I\'ve ever seen. There is no one area that I can look at and say--oops it slips a little there. I am not alone, actually, it\'s practically unanimous. MGS2 is slick, fast and gorgeous. Not much else needs to be said about this game because it\'s all been said. There are 3 titles from three different platforms that make J&D unspectacular by comparison. It is a good looking game, no doubt, but you stretch it too far and it is ridiculous.
Half an hour is plenty of time to judge. When I\'m reading a book I generally know by page 50 if I\'m going to like it or not. If I\'m playing a game, if it hasn\'t caught my attention after a half hour then I can pretty safely make a judgement. Just because you can\'t doesn\'t mean others also can not. If this were the case then why are these companies spending millions to get these things out to stores?
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Originally posted by Watchdog
I\'m unsure that you\'ll ever say anything compromising about the PS2 and positive about the xbox--that\'s what I\'m unsure about.
no need to be unsure, when PS2 does something ****, or gets **** games, i call it like it is...just because im arguing against you in this thread, doesnt mean i wont be arguing with you in the next thread...so dont pass me off as a complete fanboy straight away...there are many people who agree with me, and some have even statred so in this thread, opinions are a wonderful thing
Goldeneye innovated nothing. Zip. Unless you count 4 way split screen an innovation. PCs did it all, long before goldeneye. That point is completely off. And then you say it redefined PC FPS?!? This is a completely uninformed statement. You tell me one thing that Goldeneye brought to the FPS genre? Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Teamfortress made Goldeneye possible for God\'s sake. Please stop this ridiculous argument because while this may be your opinion, it is uninformed and completely without merit. Goldeneye is subpar as a FPS by PC standards. It is a heck of a lot of fun with 3 buddies though (almost any FPS is though) and that is the only reason it is a classic.
bull****, plain and simple...it has been the basis for copying, and the basis of the styles of almost every FPS and some third person shooters (i.e. Syphon Filter) ever since it came out (Medal of Honour anyone?) Goldeneye\'s ideas are used in multiple games on multiple systems and genres. It was the first real game that wasnt just point and shoot, not just find a key by blasting away as many enemies as possible and reaching the door to finish. It had multiple objectives, required thought, and planned attacks, and at that point the AI was unfeard of...and has heavily influenced almost all modern day action games
I treated bouncer like a fighting game because that\'s what it is (who the hell thinks it\'s an RPG?!?!). It\'s like my ex girlfriend: beautiful, boring, and shallow. You are the only person I have ever heard that said it was the best anything, let alone multiplayer game lol. Come on!
you ever played it three player man? that ****ing kicks ass man, its fast, furious and non-stop action that comes down to the wire almost every single time, its awesome
And I must insist, while a sharp looking and potentially a good platformer, J&D\'s visuals are not the best of the best. It\'s just not that good. There has to be something "new" (not a collection of things borrowed from sonic, mario or crash). RE has those slightly grainy, crazy looking backgrounds (there is no good reason to doubt that it isn\'t real time--people who think it is are xbox and PS2 fanboys and are wishing it is true. I\'m not saying it is definately, but every indication we have points that it is real time.) DOA3\'s visuals are probably the best graphics I\'ve ever seen. There is no one area that I can look at and say--oops it slips a little there. I am not alone, actually, it\'s practically unanimous. MGS2 is slick, fast and gorgeous. Not much else needs to be said about this game because it\'s all been said. There are 3 titles from three different platforms that make J&D unspectacular by comparison. It is a good looking game, no doubt, but you stretch it too far and it is ridiculous.
different people see J&D differently, there are many people who agree it is one of the thruely great looking games, and their are many people who think its just good...and there are those who think its ugly...you can think whaqt you want, but the size of those envorionments, at 60 fps, as silky smooth as it is is just....*thinks up word he hasnt used already* sensational :) and personally, i rate it above (only margainly) the excellent DoA3...which is a fighting game, to a platformer :)
Unanomous? come on...in XBox circles you are Unanomous...you are unanomous in thinking it is a great looking game, not in thinking it is THE great looking game, get over yourself
Half an hour is plenty of time to judge. When I\'m reading a book I generally know by page 50 if I\'m going to like it or not. If I\'m playing a game, if it hasn\'t caught my attention after a half hour then I can pretty safely make a judgement. Just because you can\'t doesn\'t mean others also can not. If this were the case then why are these companies spending millions to get these things out to stores?
you can usually tell if the games going to be good, but if the start is slow, and you give up, there is the chance that you will like it...i know many a people who hate the starts of most games (ie. Final Fantasy, Zelda etc) and who never wanted to play it again, until i made em sit down and play it, and those games turned into their all time fav\'s. But you cant play a game with that sort of atmosphere for half an hour, and then totally agree with a reviewer who has played the game inside and out (assuming he has) and judged it thouroughly
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spy hunter is great on two-player. No doubt.
I don\'t get why people think J&D looks so good. I think with a few more polygons, Sonic Adventure 2 would look just as good, and much faster.
Eric Jacob
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So much to reply to, so little time.
Originallly posted by Ddaryl:
according to reports Xbox has more pre-orders then GC in the US and that says alot about the true feelings of gamers.
The GCN pre-order campaign has yet to start at many places. When it does, I\'ll be sure to keep a close eye on the pre-sales of both consoles even though I\'m sure both will sell out regardless.
Originally posted by AlteredBeast:
I don\'t think the launch looks too nice, but what is coming after is making me buy it at launch
What is coming AFTER launch is what is making me wait a year. GCN looks like the better buy for me at the time. Rest assured though, I will have the X-Box a year from now.
Originally posted by Watchdog:
Anyone that says the xbox doesn\'t impress you visually is lying and clinging too dearly to his PS2. That is a fact. The xbox has amazing graphics, better than anything anywhere.
Why is it that when a person does not appreciate what someone else appreciates, they are a fanboy? I\'m not saying that the X-Box is not visually impressive with a FEW of its titles, but to degrade everyone\'s opinion to a fanboy opinion simply because they don\'t see what you see is pretty idiotic. I know people who think Corvette\'s are ugly or that cupcakes do not taste very good, but does that mean they are fanboy\'s of Ford and Little Debbie? Come on man. Wise up.
If anyone here says they are not impressed by xbox and has either Tekken or Timesplitters/Goldeneye then again I would say you are being unfair. The review from the lauded IGN (why does everyone here hang on their every word?) has done nothing but praise these two games calling them the best of the genre ever.
IGN is revered here because no other site matches it in terms of content. However, if Gamespot happens to stumble on something decent, we gobble it up here as well. IGN just seems to have their fingers on the pulse of the industry and their opinions reflects that of many people here. If you don\'t like them, that\'s fine, but them a multi-console site that is as credible if not moreso then IGN.
All the negativity surrounding the xbox around here seems like fear and jealousy for the most part. You know it won\'t hurt your PS2\'s feelings if you actually say nice things about another console.
Generalizing us all into fanboys is pretty pathetic considering the forum you\'re on. Last time I checked, this was psx2central.com, not multi-console.com, but you are fairly quick to judge us all based on a few opinions. That\'s almost as bad as generalizing an entire game with about 15 minutes of gameplay. I\'ll tear into that in a minute though.
IGN has room in my argument because everyone here idolizes it so it is fair game. Try to keep things logical. And yes I can say if a game is good if I play it at EB or not. Absorb the game? LOL.
Just imagine if reviews were done this way. Suppose for a second the reviewers picked up at one part of the game, the worst part of it as a matter of fact where you lost all your weapons or all your abilities or the ability to move as a part of the story and then suddenly you turned the machine off and decided to review it labeling it as the "worst game ever." If anybody saw you as a reviewer doing that, they\'d throw your credibility out the window. What if the ending of the game made you love it, or perhaps some deep plot element of the story, but you think that those things are moot based on 10 minutes of play time? Who cares about the story and elements of a 60 hour RPG if I can write a review from 15 MINUTES of play! You\'re a genius. No really, you are. :rolleyes:
Half an hour is plenty of time to judge. When I\'m reading a book I generally know by page 50 if I\'m going to like it or not. If I\'m playing a game, if it hasn\'t caught my attention after a half hour then I can pretty safely make a judgement. Just because you can\'t doesn\'t mean others also can not. If this were the case then why are these companies spending millions to get these things out to stores?
Gee, that\'s real interesting and you wonder why IGN is applauded around here. Mainly because they play the entire game, complete it, and then give their honest opinion. Unlike Gamespot who has a tendency to write their reviews by the seat of their pants and pray what they are saying is accurate for the ENTIRE game, but I suppose that\'s why you question IGN\'s integrity right?
It\'s confusing to me how someone can pass judgement of the ENTIRE game based on one incredibly short rushed sitting. I can just imagine your Einhander review and how you\'d repeat the same thing about the game over and over again completely ignoring the entire ending sequence. Or perhaps your comments on just about any RPG or your comments on Virtua Fighter after only playing the "deepest fighter of all time" after 15 minutes of gameplay. Please, spare us this boring rhetoric, you obviously have zero credibility with reviews if you think a game is going to be the same throughout after 15 minutes of play time.
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I think with a few more polygons, Sonic Adventure 2 would look just as good, and much faster.
Just a few? :rolleyes: ;) I\'ll leave SA2 alone Beasty, just for you.
/ dm /
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Nice way to turn around all my points. Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.
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Why is it that when a person does not appreciate what someone else appreciates, they are a fanboy? I\'m not saying that the X-Box is not visually impressive with a FEW of its titles, but to degrade everyone\'s opinion to a fanboy opinion simply because they don\'t see what you see is pretty idiotic. I know people who think Corvette\'s are ugly or that cupcakes do not taste very good, but does that mean they are fanboy\'s of Ford and Little Debbie? Come on man. Wise up.
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I never said all of xbox\'s software was visually unmatched. Learn to read. My responce was directed at those who said they had not been impressed at all by the graphics of the xbox. This is fanboyism or that person is not impressed by any graphics, anywhere. These are the only explanations I will accept. And it is unanimous. I have never read a credible source state that there isn\'t one single xbox game that is visualy impressive. IGN and nextgen have both stated that halo and DOA3 are tops in terms of graphics and gameplay in their respective genres--that alone should be enough for most of us because we haven\'t played the games. Even the official PS2 mag mentioned that the xbox is visually impressive but is shallow with gameplay (or something like that). This somehow always gets ignored. Come on man. Wise up.
I NEVER said IGN wasn\'t credible. I had reservations with them leading up to the launch of the PS2 because every single day they posted some lame top ten list for reasons to buy the PS2. It was obvious that their objectivity was wavering. They are more fair now it seems. You should read carefully, it would save me a lot of time.
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Generalizing us all into fanboys is pretty pathetic considering the forum you\'re on.
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Never said EVERYONE here were fanboys.
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Last time I checked, this was psx2central.com, not multi-console.com,
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Hm, last time I checked this was console debating. Reading isn\'t a strong suit for you is it?
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Just imagine if reviews were done this way. Suppose for a second the reviewers picked up at one part of the game, the worst part of it as a matter of fact where you lost all your weapons or all your abilities or the ability to move as a part of the story and then suddenly you turned the machine off and decided to review it labeling it as the "worst game ever." If anybody saw you as a reviewer doing that, they\'d throw your credibility out the window. What if the ending of the game made you love it, or perhaps some deep plot element of the story, but you think that those things are moot based on 10 minutes of play time? Who cares about the story and elements of a 60 hour RPG if I can write a review from 15 MINUTES of play! You\'re a genius. No really, you are.
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Just imagine if you made up all kinds of stuff to support you pathetic arguments...oh wait you already do that. How you know how I played the game is astonishing. I played it from the start for about half an hour and watched it for a while longer (there was an impressive line up--the longest I\'ve seen at a kiosk). From that time I was able to grasp the basic physics, mechanics and gameplay and realized that they really didn\'t do too much new. I got a pretty good idea of how the game would play. From this and from IGN\'s review I could piece together a pretty good idea of what that game could offer me. Wouldn\'t you think? I play games to actually play games. I watch DVDs to watch movies and read books for stories. Video games\' movies and stories, while nice and necessary, do not cut it when compared to these two mainstays (FF may come the closest). It is a good game, but not exceptional. What gets me is that you write two paragraphs on a broken statement I made in parenthesies that was not even close to the spirit of my post. I never said it was a complete and thorough review. It was a quick hands on that I\'ve seen countless times in many magazines. You\'re an idiot. No really you are. :)
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Gee, that\'s real interesting and you wonder why IGN is applauded around here. Mainly because they play the entire game, complete it, and then give their honest opinion. Unlike Gamespot who has a tendency to write their reviews by the seat of their pants and pray what they are saying is accurate for the ENTIRE game, but I suppose that\'s why you question IGN\'s integrity right?
It\'s confusing to me how someone can pass judgement of the ENTIRE game based on one incredibly short rushed sitting. I can just imagine your Einhander review and how you\'d repeat the same thing about the game over and over again completely ignoring the entire ending sequence. Or perhaps your comments on just about any RPG or your comments on Virtua Fighter after only playing the "deepest fighter of all time" after 15 minutes of gameplay. Please, spare us this boring rhetoric, you obviously have zero credibility with reviews if you think a game is going to be the same throughout after 15 minutes of play time.
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And even more crap about my broken sentence contained between parenthesies. Get a life. See above, calm down, and pop a ridilin. What made me laugh, and I have to thank you for this is this little gem: "Please, spare us this boring rhetoric, you obviously have zero credibility with reviews" HaHaHaHa. You call my little sentence fragment boring rhetoric and a review. Too funny. My god.
Moving on...
Goldeneye revolutionized nothing. There were hundreds of mods released for Quake long before GE was released that covered everything from covert operations to team-play to mindless killing. Halflife was 3 years in the making by the time GE was released,. These are the games that refined and defined the FPS not GE. Please stop this ridiculous argument. GE is a classic, but it revolutionized nothing and it definately didn\'t do ANYTHING for the PC FPS save for a couple cool map ports. GE set the bar for console shooters, I\'ll give you that.
Yes I\'ve played Bouncer with my brothers--we did only borrow it for a few days, but it really didn\'t entertain us for that long.
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watchdog...you dont honestly believe that your winning these \'arguements\' do you???
Hm, last time I checked this was console debating. Reading isn\'t a strong suit for you is it?
reading comprehenstion is a wonderful thing isnt it...you see, your doing the same things that your complaining Ryu and everyone else is doing...and your just plaing wrong, and not worth wasting arguementative time
i believe what Ryu was referring to was as to why their are so many strong PS2 supporters at these forums, not why you shouldnt be posting here, or whatever else you may be insinuating
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Even the official PS2 mag mentioned that the xbox is visually impressive but is shallow with gameplay (or something like that). This somehow always gets ignored. Come on man. Wise up.
Oh man! So if the Official Xbox magazine said the PS2 was visually impressive but shallow with gameplay you would take their word for it?
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Watchdog, you are lucky that Ryu isn\'t here to reply to what you said. I\'ll just leave it at that.
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Originally posted by IronFist
Watchdog, you are lucky that Ryu isn\'t here to reply to what you said. I\'ll just leave it at that.
Ryu was here, he just couldnt be bothered...lazy bastard :)
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What?!? Why? Am I supposed to be scared of Ryu? Lol. Why should anyone be hesitant to post their views? I do not hate Ryu or even dislike him. We are having a debate. He mixed it up so I mixed it up in turn. There should be no hard feelings or anamosity.
Winning this argument, I seem to think so. On what point am I lacking?
The point I was making about the Official PS2 mag was that even they think the xbox is impressive visually. Meaning that you are bias if you don\'t think the xbox has impressive graphics. That\'s it. You don\'t have to like the games themselves, but to say that you don\'t think the graphics are impressive means you are lying to yourself (and everyone else) or you are not impressed by any graphics anywhere. Game tastes are individual and vary greatly, and I can appreciate if people disagree about specific games, but this point is unarguable. Do I take Official PS2 mag\'s word for it? No. This is the same as any other source. I collect as many opinions as I can and make a conclusion. Relying on one source as gospel (eg IGN) is misguided, but when every reputable source says the xbox boasts unmatched graphics I tend to think it\'s true.
This is console debating. This is where we are supposed to shed our console bias and talk about how differing consoles compare. This is not PS2 vs the world or PS2 fanboys defend their systems without hesitation or logic. That other stuff is for the main forum. I do expect to find more PS2 owners here (hell I\'m one of them), but if they can\'t take hearing negative things about their beloved console then they shouldn\'t come here. What part is confusing you Bob?
I agree, SA2 needs a lot of polishing to match J&D visually.
"Not worth arguing?" That\'s a good way to duck out.
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Watchdog, I want to go through that reply you gave to Ryu and tell you why you are so wrong, but this debate is already dead. There is so much garbage and so much confusion, it would take me hours to go through it all. It\'s not even my argument, so I\'ll let someone else do it. :)
One thing I want to bring up is this. I thought Ryu did a great job of explaining it to you, but you still don\'t seem to understand.
Anyone that says the xbox doesn\'t impress you visually is lying and clinging too dearly to his PS2. That is a fact. The xbox has amazing graphics, better than anything anywhere.
First, read this link (http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=13628).
What exactly do you consider to be "amazing graphics." What do the graphics need to be considered amazing? Isn\'t it possible for your idea of amazing graphics to be different than mine? For example, is it possible that I love the cel shaded look of the new Zelda and I think the graphics are amazing, but you don\'t? Would that make me a Nintendo fanboy? If I prefer the graphics of Soul Calibur 2 to the graphics of DOA3, would that make me a PS2 fanboy?
If I didn\'t like the graphics of any Xbox game, would that make me an Xbox hater? Or would it mean that I have different tastes than you do...
Not all of us are easily impressed with high polygon counts. Not all of us are impressed with far draw distances. Not all of us are impressed with great animation, awesome particle effects, cool water/fire effects, brilliant textures, original graphical styles, etc. Do you get what I\'m trying to say? We all have different opinions of what "amazing graphics" are. Just because someone\'s view is different than yours doesn\'t make them any kind of fanboy.
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Yes, I love vague dissagreements and counterpoints: "There is so much wrong that it\'d take me too long to go through." BS.
Anyway.
I hate 2001 A Space Odyssey. I would never watch Blade Runner again. I find Star Wars to be dull and cliched. These are opnions that I have and are perfectly valid; however, I can say, and acknowledge that they are all either great movies or incredibly important movies--so much so that I would tell anyone that hasn\'t, to see them. I can look at pre-raphaelite art and say it is great and wonderful even though I do not like that particular style. I can say classical musicians are unrivaled in terms of their instrumentals even though I would never chose to listen to them.
These are honest, unbiased, rational responces. I personally don\'t like any of these things, but I still find merits in them and can say without hesitation that they are great.
If someone can\'t appreciate exceptional art or any other form of expression then they are letting their opinion affect their judgement. This is bias.
So if you cannot say that DOA3 has incredible graphics then you may not necessarily be a fanboy, but you definately are bias.
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Well, people are already saying X-Box games are shallow and crap. Well, aren\'t we forgeting..........
1.) None of you have played any X-Box games!
2.) I like my PS2, but even I can admit the launch games were boring, and mostly crap (except SSX) and there still isn\'t any AAA games (and Grand Turismo3 is just GT2 with less cars and pretty graphics)
3.) GC\'s launch games were hardly wonderful from what I heard....I mean, Waverace doesn\'t interest me, Luigis Mansion looks a bit pathetic and the gameplay has been heavily criticised, and Pikimin is....good, I suppose.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
The point I was making about the Official PS2 mag was that even they think the xbox is impressive visually. Meaning that you are bias if you don\'t think the xbox has impressive graphics. That\'s it. You don\'t have to like the games themselves, but to say that you don\'t think the graphics are impressive means you are lying to yourself (and everyone else) or you are not impressed by any graphics anywhere. Game tastes are individual and vary greatly, and I can appreciate if people disagree about specific games, but this point is unarguable.
This is where you\'re completely wrong, unarguable??????, NO, every person can have an opinion and if a person thinks the graphics are impressive, its an opinion
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No, that\'s where you are wrong. If someone can\'t find a game in the xbox lineup that is visually striking in their opinion then they are bias OR they are not impressed by anything. That\'s it.
Yes anyone can have an opinion, but that doesn\'t mean it\'s valid. If I say anyone who is from race x is unintelligent and should be killed would this be accepted by everyone? Of course not. This is an opinion too, however it is biased or more specificaly prejudice. In the opinion of bin laden all tax paying americans should be killed. This is an opinion too. You see where I\'m going with this.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
So if you cannot say that DOA3 has incredible graphics then you may not necessarily be a fanboy, but you definately are bias.
Again, I disagree. It is not bias, it is a difference in oppinion.
Hypothetically speaking (I think that\'s the word I\'m looking for, but I\'m not sure), lets say that I hate the graphics in DOA3 because they are getting way too realistic. I like video games because they are a way to escape from the real world. I don\'t want a game that looks almost lifelike. DOA3 is one step closer to the fusion of real life and fantasy in video games. I want to know when I\'m looking at a game and when I\'m looking at something real. So if I don\'t like the realistic graphics of DOA3, does that make me bias? No. It just means that I prefer less realistic graphics and don\'t find beauty in games with almost realistic graphics. If I don\'t like the graphics in a game, why would I give the game credit for having good graphics?
And about that movie thing. If you don\'t like a movie, you would really tell other people to see it? That isn\'t nice at all. I would tell them that I hated it and I don\'t recommend seeing it. It\'s not bias, it is just a different, honest point of view.
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If you can see that the graphics are too life like then you can appreciate that they are very good. So you might not prefer that high a graphic quality, but you can say they are excellent in their own right. Not for you, but for people that like amazing life-like graphics then yes.
Same rule for movies. If I don\'t like a movie, but feel it is important (eg 2001 Space Odyssey) then I think people should go see it because it is a land mark movie that should be appreciatedby everyone. If I don\'t like a movie because it is a horrible piece of Hollywood trash (Jack Frost--The Killer Snowman) then no I wouldn\'t reccommend it to anyone.
All I\'m saying is that people are letting their bias get in the way of their objectivity.
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Ok Watchdog. I have one question. Who the heck started this "there is nothing that looks good on the Xbox" thing anyways? :) I didn\'t read most of page 2 because it was so big, so I missed where this whole thing started.
Back to the DOA3 example. (hypothetically speaking again). I am not going to say, "DOA3 has good graphics," because I don\'t think they do and that would just be a lie. However, I will say, "DOA3 has realistic graphics." Then the person I\'m talking to can come up with their own opinion of the graphics. Again, "good graphics" is entirely an opinion thing and not liking a certain type of graphics is not being biased.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
If you can see that the graphics are too life like then you can appreciate that they are very good. So you might not prefer that high a graphic quality, but you can say they are excellent in their own right. Not for you, but for people that like amazing life-like graphics then yes.
I hope Ironfist gives up on trying to explain it to you soon, just because they are life like doesnt make them very good, its all an OPINION OF WHAT IS GOOD, for god sakes please understand it this time, and when speaking of good graphics you will always be speaking for yourself so you wouldnt be saying excellent in their own right
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.video-senki.com%2Fx300.jpg&hash=376962e139c5fb805dfbe9b3942300bf8299feec)
I know it\'s old but it still cracks me up :D
With the title of this thread I expected some new info on why xbox might surprise me. What do I find? SOS
I\'LL be surprised if xbox doesn\'t turn out to be the next 3DO. If not being anymore impressed with what the xbox has shown to date than I have been with PS2 or GC makes me "bias", then that\'s the way it goes. Although I prefer to use the word biased instead.
Ever notice how when one long-winded troll disappears another one always shows up to endlessly wave the ol green banner x? Better behaved with each incarnation to be sure but still just as tiresome. It\'s a miracle!
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Yeah, I\'m a troll. You\'re a loser. Now we can get along. I could care less what you think, honestly. I own both the PSX and PS2--you chose not to believe that someone can have opinions contrary to what their console might dictate and that is fine. And like I\'ve said, this is console debating and this stuff is fair game.
Let me say one thing though: I have NEVER posted a link to show off a screen shot; I have NEVER posted screen shots, I have NEVER flamed anyone for their opinion; I have NEVER started an xbox thread; I have NEVER started a GC thread; I have NEVER started a PS2 bashing thread; I have NEVER taken a argument beyond the scope of a thread to degrade the PS2 or praise xbox/GC.
These are all common practises of trolls. I\'ve never done any of these things. How someone can be a troll without doing any of the above is beyond me, but I\'ve seemed to have done it. My arguments are fair, not outlandish and not only against the PS2--I have pointed out the merits of the PS2, I have said negative things about both other major consoles. I speak my mind and when it is convienent for you to call me a troll you do so because that\'s what people around here do when they find a point of view that differs with their own. That\'s fine. If it makes you feel better then do so, you won\'t hurt my feelings.
One last thing on this subject: a troll\'s argument is always easy to refute.
Back to the point. You guys are being completely ridiculous trying to get yourself out of this. It\'s truly pathetic.
I could call up dozens of threads that have said things like: "The water in ICO looks real--it looks like real water." or "The environments look so good, they are almost life like." or any number of posts that remark how incredible a game looks and compare it to its real life counterpart.
That is always the standard that graphics are to be judged. That\'s why companies spend millions on motion capture technology. That\'s why FMV and CGI are always so great because they are truer to life than in game graphics (also evolution of story etc). That\'s why the debate about prerendered RE on the GC is so heated. That is what graphics designers strive for (not solely--eg JSR, Mario--but for the majority of cases).
But if you can\'t look at DOA3 and say : "The xbox is a powerful graphics system. These graphics are incredible."
Then your bias can never be more fully revealed.
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Sorry Dawg, my troll poop comprehension level is really low tonight so I didn\'t bother reading your last post past the first sentence or so. Maybe I\'ll give it a try tomorrow if I get bored. Not much point though since you haven\'t written anything worth reading so far this thread.
I see you took my advice in another thread and got off the "just wait until we see how good the xbox looks next year" course. Man, that one makes the xbox sound sooooo saaad.
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I\'ve never said once "wait and see next year." Ever. I never said you can\'t compare gen2 PS2 games to the first crop of PS2 games. Actually your sentence is so wordy and unorganized that I\'m really not sure what you are trying to say.
Who do you think you are impressing with your "I didn\'t bother reading blah blah" routine. Just because you aren\'t intelligent enough to debate you cop out and say something completely transparent like that. Nothing like personal attacks when you can\'t refute a post. Nicely done.
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This is all to Watchdog and his replies.
This is fanboyism or that person is not impressed by any graphics, anywhere.
It\'s not fanboyism. Fanboyism, although not even an appropriate term to be using in this debate of what is "good looking" and what is not "good looking," is shown when someone says that Console A looks better than console B no matter what great looking games console B has. However, definining WHAT is good looking and what is NOT good looking is a matter of taste, and therefore a matter of opinion. If I said that Cindy Crawford was an ugly skank but said that the crackwhore on Main Street in LA was a total hottie, that\'s my opinion. Unbiased only to my tastes. Maybe my preference differs from yours, but in no way does that make me a "fanboy" of crackwhores.
The point is, people see things in certain games, movies, women, and men that other people don\'t see. I see the new Link as an innovative way to revive the old Link into this new age, but others see it as cartoonie crap. Who is right? Who\'s to say? Who cares? Why should we all agree that the animation is fluid when we disagree about the overall look? Is that not what we are arguing about? I just don\'t understand how you can say that everyone needs to agree with the general opinion of the X-Box\'s merits despite them disliking the look of the games.
People don\'t like cel-shaded games, but I\'m not going to make them admit that the animation for most of them is amazing. That\'s a moot point if they hate the look overall and that\'s fact. Opinions are just that and you can\'t argue with them and hide behind your loose definition of "fanboyism" to change them.
These are the only explanations I will accept. And it is unanimous. I have never read a credible source state that there isn\'t one single xbox game that is visualy impressive. IGN and nextgen have both stated that halo and DOA3 are tops in terms of graphics and gameplay in their respective genres--that alone should be enough for most of us because we haven\'t played the games. Even the official PS2 mag mentioned that the xbox is visually impressive but is shallow with gameplay (or something like that). This somehow always gets ignored. Come on man. Wise up.
Unanimous exceptions for yourself? Since when does our opinions have to meet your expectations? Our opinions are ours and we don\'t have to state them with your definition of fanboyism or unbiased in mind. We state our opinions because we call it as we see it. Some people see the PS2 as the second coming, others see it as crap and vice versa for the X-Box, but you have no right to call any of us fanboys for having that opinion.
I NEVER said IGN wasn\'t credible. I had reservations with them leading up to the launch of the PS2 because every single day they posted some lame top ten list for reasons to buy the PS2. It was obvious that their objectivity was wavering. They are more fair now it seems. You should read carefully, it would save me a lot of time.
I think you have IGN and the now dead DailyRadar confused. IGN doesn\'t post top 10 lists. Dailyradar does, or rather, did.
Never said EVERYONE here were fanboys.
When you make a generalized statement, I take offense to it. If you have specifics, then name them. Don\'t be so hasty and lazy as to generalize us all simply because it\'s convenient.
Hm, last time I checked this was console debating. Reading isn\'t a strong suit for you is it?
This is the PSX2central forums. It\'s main forum is housed on a site that talks about the PS2 console 24/7. Sure, this is console debating, but it is housed on a PS2 forum where we are freely allowed to discuss and revel in Sony\'s black little box. If some of us have reservations about other consoles, this is the place to do it. If you want good multiconsole discussion with 100% unbiased gamers, if you can find people that meet your odd definition, then feel free to go there and discuss all this with them. Until then, this is a PS2 forum with people who appreciate the PS2. Live with it or leave.
It is a good game, but not exceptional. What gets me is that you write two paragraphs on a broken statement I made in parenthesies that was not even close to the spirit of my post. I never said it was a complete and thorough review. It was a quick hands on that I\'ve seen countless times in many magazines. You\'re an idiot. No really you are.
How much I write in response to any of your statements is my choice. Targetting my message lengthis what makes your arguements less and less credible. Second of all, you went as far as saying that the entire game deserved the "7" rating that it got from certain sites. How can you say that for sure after reading IGN\'s review and playing it for 15 minutes? That\'s right, you can\'t. You know, the opening for Half-Life is about a good 5 minutes of moving around in a rail car and observing the surroundings. Based on the Half-Life reviews on the net and my "impressions" of those first 5 minutes, I can easily say that Half-Life is the best FPS ever! Oh please. You scored the game based on your "impressions" and went on to agree with the opinions of those who had actually FINISHED the game. I suppose if I watched a film during a scene with a heavy amount of dialogue and said there was "too much talking," and in addition, watched the trailers for the film, my review would be incredibly informed. Awhile ago I wrote an article about ignorance being the best thing about gamers who are casual, but now I see that that\'s something I was incredibly wrong about. I would never want to be like you, ever.
And even more crap about my broken sentence contained between parenthesies. Get a life. See above, calm down, and pop a ridilin. What made me laugh, and I have to thank you for this is this little gem: "Please, spare us this boring rhetoric, you obviously have zero credibility with reviews" HaHaHaHa. You call my little sentence fragment boring rhetoric and a review. Too funny. My god.
If you don\'t want your comments in parenthenses commented on, then feel free to omit them next time. I comment on what grabs my attention and what seems so idiotically out of place, it deserves a comment. Targeting how much I write to what comment is pretty low. Are you running out of steam? Are you finally starting to realize that your arguements are so completely shallow that they hold almost no weight or reference of mind whatsoever? You talk about the majority and how it agrees with you yet you go against the majority in so many ways that it\'s almost blasphemous. Opinions are like assholes and everyone has one and you should learn to respect that, but it seems the majority of people here thinks your asshole, or your opinions rather, stinks.
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lol you know whats funny really Ryu
is when you think about it anyone can call you a fanboy if they want - someone can call me a fanboy all they want
the thing is really is thats their opinion and usually the misinterpetation of the word - but to them a person may be a fanboy
so what i am trying to say is to that persoon, in their opinion , the other person is a fanboy - so its kinda not so much a defenition
because even so some people see people through different eyes - like half the people may say that person A is a fanboy and the other half may say he isnt - its just a matter of how you see it and what way you think
just thought i would state what was running though my head at 1 in the moring :p
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Heh heh... I am a "Fanboy"
I am a "Fanboy" of videogames...
;)
What it comes down to is... In a few years noone will care which system is best, shoot I just pulled out my Jaguar today for a quick romp. I reveled in all 10,000 polygons :)
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I totaly agree with what you said Ironfist. Just because a game looks realistic, it doesn\'t mean that it\'s got good graphics. I would rather a fighter like Guilty Gear X then Dead or Alive 3 (at least graphics wise) because of the style..
And Watchdog.. stop telling people to stop bad mouthing the xbox games before they play them.. Because, you haven\'t played the games either and you\'re praising them..
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Ok, one more time.
I do not like the look of cell shaded games (eg JSR). It\'s not for me. But I can see the artistry of it. The talent of the designers and the merits of the engine. I can say that the graphics are great, just not my thing. This is objectivity. This is an unbiased opinion. Saying that the graphics in DOA3 aren\'t good is lunacy. If you cannot see the graphical merits of the game then you are closeminded and stubborn.
I personally hate the graphical direction Zelda has taken, but I can saw that for a cell shaded game it looks great.
Do you see what I\'m saying here?
I\'m sure if I went back into the forums, I would find that many of you were commenting on how good TTT looks. DOA3 is the natural progression of it. The character are nearly unsurpassed and the environments are breathtaking (ie beach, forest). If you can\'t objectively say this, then you are not being true to yourself.
You don\'t have to life the realistic graphics (whatever), but you have to say that the graphics team is a talented group and we haven\'t seen realistic graphics that good ever. Here you can cut and paste this sentence into your reply.
begin cutting and pasting:
___________
I do not like the graphics of DOA3; however, I can say without hesitation that the xbox is a powerful graphics machine and that DOA3, in its chosen style, is unmatched graphically.
___________
end cutting and pasting. This is an opinion, and it still leaves room for the truth.
It\'s unanimous because every reputable gaming source ahs extolled the virtues of the graphical prowess of the xbox (specifically DOA3 and Halo). I have never read a reviewer (again a credible one) say that the graphics in DOA3 are bad. That is why I say unanimous.
And please, for God\'s sake stop calling it a review. It was a quick hands on that is completely valid, that I\'ve seen in many reputable publications. Many of us here take the word of IGN and purchase the game based on their opinion alone. I played the game for 1/2 hour (not 15 minutes) and watched it for a while longer and can say that I got a good impression of the game play and style. From the review of IGN I was able to descern that the gameplay doesn\'t evolve too much. It\'s like ICO after fighting a couple ghosts, you don\'t need to fight all of them to get an idea of how the fighting engine will work or how the game will play. SH2 is no different.
I never commented on the gameplay of any xbox title. I\'ve commetted about the graphics and defered to publications like IGN and NExtgen about gameplay. Don\'t put words in my mouth.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
I\'ve never said once "wait and see next year." Ever. I never said you can\'t compare gen2 PS2 games to the first crop of PS2 games. Actually your sentence is so wordy and unorganized that I\'m really not sure what you are trying to say.
Le\' me splain for you dog with your own quotes from another thread.
Originally posted by Watchdog
All these buzz words that Sony fed us are BS if you ask me. All these "hiden" features and abilities is Sony\'s way of covering up their shoddy system archetecture. The PS2 is a good system, but it is outclassed by the GC and Xbox. I\'m confident that I\'ll get another year out of it (2 max) before the GC and xbox start out pacing it in terms of graphics and games.
also from the same post
Originally posted by Watchdog
Especially since the PS2 will not be able to go toe to toe with these newer consoles in a year or so I just think the casual gamer--motivated by graphics alone--will go with a newer system.
Complete with the favorite troll chant "shoddy system archetecture" I took the liberty to interpret your words with the
"wait and see next year." line. My mistake for using quotation marks, though I believe no worse than your use of "hiden" while mentioning Sony BS buzz words.
Here\'s another example of trollish behavior from the same thread
Originally posted by Watchdog
Just because the GC and Xbox are easy to develop for, DOES NOT mean that the games will not get any better. That is wishful thinking on the part of us PS2 owners.
and from this thread
Originally posted by Watchdog
Saying that the graphics in DOA3 aren\'t good is lunacy.
Debating statements not in question
or how about this from the ealier thread
Originally posted by Watchdog
The PS2 is not nearly as powerful as xbox or GC--CPU included.
Stateing opinion as if it were fact, another typical troll tactic. Remove the word "nearly" and no one cares. This debate over opinions only continues because of how near all three consoles look at this point, IMO.
Oh and one last thing
Originally posted by Watchdog
One last thing on this subject: a troll\'s argument is always easy to refute.
Maybe if it\'s a stupid troll or you\'re the type of person that in your own mind wins every argument. Insidious trolls that can\'t see their own hairy toes? Much more difficult. That is, as always, IMO.
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Well taking a quote from a different thread, out of context isn\'t fair--you know that. The enquirer makes a killing out of doing garbage like this.
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All these buzz words that Sony fed us are BS if you ask me. All these "hiden" features and abilities is Sony\'s way of covering up their shoddy system archetecture. The PS2 is a good system, but it is outclassed by the GC and Xbox. I\'m confident that I\'ll get another year out of it (2 max) before the GC and xbox start out pacing it in terms of graphics and games.
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What it trollish about this? Emotion engine anyone? If that isn\'t a piece of market driven crap I dont\' know what is. The PS2 was sold on buzz words and reputation--it certainly didn\'t sell on games. Stating the truth, doesn\'t mean I\'m a troll. The PS2 will be outclassed in a year or two. That is another truth. The GC and xbox are newer technologies and thereby will last longer. This is true, even the staunchest PS2 supporter should be able to see this.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Especially since the PS2 will not be able to go toe to toe with these newer consoles in a year or so I just think the casual gamer--motivated by graphics alone--will go with a newer system.
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And this?? Joe Public doesn\'t know anything about specs or upcoming releases or anything that informed gamers do (the vast minority). He sees pretty graphics and makes a decision. I really dont\' see your point. Again, let me say that this is out of context here.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Just because the GC and Xbox are easy to develop for, DOES NOT mean that the games will not get any better. That is wishful thinking on the part of us PS2 owners.
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Trollish behaviour? What exactly is the definition because I\'m confused. Many posters were making the conclusion that xbox and GC games will not get better with successive generations (because of the ease of the dev cycle) but that the PS2 because of the steep learning curve will eventually catch up in terms of visuals once designers figure it out. I was pointing out that this isn\'t true, that all games will improve regardless of the console with every generation.
Put in the proper perspective it doesn\'t seem trollish to me. In one of my more recent posts I made a similar correction. Someone said PS2 has a 2 million userbase. I corrected him stating that it is in the neighbourhood of 15 million. Both were corrections, the first goes against your frail ideology and the second would disprove your theory. It\'s interesting that you chose not to post the latter.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Saying that the graphics in DOA3 aren\'t good is lunacy.
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I stand by this and always will. The question of graphics quality is indisputable--finally you post something within the proper context.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
The PS2 is not nearly as powerful as xbox or GC--CPU included.
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Again, this is no secret. Do you believe otherwise? Go to any VG publishing source and ask the question. Perhaps I overstated the case a bit when I said "not nearly as powerful", but the fact remains that it is not as powerful and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.
You obviously have a lot of time on your hands to sift through all my posts. If that is how you chose to spend your time I guess that\'s your perogative, but I dont\' know what you accomplished by taking these posts out of context and presenting them as proof of my true designs. Which are? To create doubt in the minds of PS2 owners so that they purchase the xbox or GC? Yes I am currently under the employ of MS to seek out and polute the minds of those that would not otherwise purchase their system. Whatever.
I speak what is on my mind despite that I have two Sony consoles beneathe my television. Anyone who argues against the PS2 is labelled as a troll or fanboy. Do you not see the problem with this stance? It may seem like I have more to "say" about the ps2 and that is because that is all anyone talks about around here. If someone started a cancerous thread extolling the virtues of the GC or xbox, I would post there in the same manner I post to any thread--with honesty.
As anyone can see, posting against the PS2 on a PS2 board will not convince anyone to abandon their PS2. The people who populate these boards are diehard fans and cannot be swayed by arguments no matter how persuasive. I post here because it is a lively board, I own two Sony consoles and because I enjoy debating. So you can continue to dismiss my arguments as troll inspired tripe, I don\'t care, I only ask that you don\'t misrepresent what I have said in the past by fragmenting my argument and taking it out of its context--the only place that it has any relevance.
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First of all, what was with that last post? Were you debating with yourself?! (j/k Watchdog. :) I know you did it to prove a point.)
Originally posted by Watchdog
The PS2 will be outclassed in a year or two. That is another truth. The GC and xbox are newer technologies and thereby will last longer. This is true, even the staunchest PS2 supporter should be able to see this.
Wow, I don\'t know what your smoking to be able to see into the future like that, but I want some! Seriously though, if you are basing your opinion that the Xbox and NGC will last longer only on the newness of technology, than you are ignoring a lot of other factors. Like you said, Sony has a great reputation. The PS2 also has great games. Great developer support. A huge userbase. etc... Just because their technology is newer does not mean the console will live longer, or even as long as the PS2.
And this?? Joe Public doesn\'t know anything about specs or upcoming releases or anything that informed gamers do (the vast minority). He sees pretty graphics and makes a decision. I really dont\' see your point. Again, let me say that this is out of contexthere.
Again, like you said, Sony has a great reputation because of the PSX. Many will buy the PS2 for this reason alone. Casual gamers are not as stupid as you may think. They know what kinds of games they want, and most of them do at least a little research before they spend $200-$300 on a console. They know if the PS2 has a ton of games. They know if the Xbox has a harddrive and a modem as well as a few awesome games. They know if Nintendo has Rougue Leader (sp?) and other great games.
I stand by this and always will. The question of graphics quality is indisputable--finally you post something within the proper context.
And I stand against this. :) Good graphics are entirely based on opinion.
Again, this is no secret. Do you believe otherwise? Go to any VG publishing source and ask the question.
A video game publisher wouldn\'t know which console was more powerful. Only the programmers know that.
Perhaps I overstated the case a bit when I said "not nearly as powerful", but the fact remains that it is not as powerful and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.
I guess you haven\'t played ICO yet...
The PS2 is *drool* Soooooo powerfullllll *drool*
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Yeah I played ICO, it did look good.
I didn\'t necessarily mean they\'ll last longer, I think all 3 consoles will be around by year 5 (projected as the release of the next wave). I do think though by year 3.4-5, the age of the hardware will begin to manifest itself and that will result in a larger graphics descrepency. It is a bit of a prediction, but no one can expect that 1.5 year old technology can compete with new technology. That\'s all I\'m saying. So yes it is a prediction, but not very far fetched.
I just believe that casual gamers, being less educated in terms of gaming, tend to go for the easy sell--graphics. How many casual gamers know that project ego is coming out for xbox? I\'d wager very few.
I didn\'t mean a video game publisher in that sense (I was incredibly vague), I meant IGN, nextgen etc.
Haha, here we are again at this sticking point: the graphics of DOA3. I guess we\'ll have to agree to disagree because OBJECTIVELY speaking those are very nice graphics. Styles and tastes can differ, but the talent in those graphics is undeniable. I can\'t say any more without repeating even more of my previous posts.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Yeah I played ICO, it did look good.
Doesn\'t it make you happy to be a PS2 owner? I know it makes me happy. :) Games can only get better from here.
I didn\'t necessarily mean they\'ll last longer, I think all 3 consoles will be around by year 5 (projected as the release of the next wave). I do think though by year 3.4-5, the age of the hardware will begin to manifest itself and that will result in a larger graphics descrepency. It is a bit of a prediction, but no one can expect that 1.5 year old technology can compete with new technology. That\'s all I\'m saying. So yes it is a prediction, but not very far fetched.
But that 1.5 year old technology is actually extremely new. The Xbox and NGC are the ones who went with the old technology. He he he. :)
I just believe that casual gamers, being less educated in terms of gaming, tend to go for the easy sell--graphics. How many casual gamers know that project ego is coming out for xbox? I\'d wager very few.
I don\'t see how bringing up Project Ego is relevant to what we are talking about. Feel free to explain that one to me. I\'ll respond to it anyways though. :) Project Ego is coming out in over a year. When it gets closer to launch, it will be a lot more known to the casual gamer.
I didn\'t mean a video game publisher in that sense (I was incredibly vague), I meant IGN, nextgen etc.
Well IGN and Nextgen don\'t know which console is more powerful either. There might be a really smart guy in the croud, but most of them just look at the specs and pick a winner (in hardware performance) from that. Only the programmers really know which system is more powerful.
Haha, here we are again at this sticking point: the graphics of DOA3. I guess we\'ll have to agree to disagree because OBJECTIVELY speaking those are very nice graphics. Styles and tastes can differ, but the talent in those graphics is undeniable. I can\'t say any more without repeating even more of my previous posts.
And I can\'t either. We have come to a dead end. So I guess we will have to do what you said and agree to disagree. :)
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I agree with watchdog on one thing out of all the next gen system the ps2 has the oldest architecture so it in no doubt is the weakest out of the 3. But that still does not mean great games can\'t be created on it.
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Absolutely not Quddos, I agree completely. Part of my point is that people who go to forums and read the press know the importance of graphics, but the others are more easily swayed.
I brought up Project Ego because Joe Public will not consider what is coming out in a year from now. He will see a great looking title and make the purchase. It\'s not an informed decision.
ICO was a good experience all in all, but I wished for more.
Well it\'s debatable that Nextgen and IGN do not know if a system is powerful or not. I tend to say that they do--they speak directly to devs and I\'m pretty sure they know.
On a side note: Does anyone else think the GT commercials don\'t do the game justice? The game looks so much better than the commercial makes it look.
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This thread\'s title reminds me of that "Men\'s Warehouse" commercial. "You\'ll like how you look. I gaurantee it."
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Originally posted by Watchdog
I brought up Project Ego because Joe Public will not consider what is coming out in a year from now. He will see a great looking title and make the purchase. It\'s not an informed decision.
Purchasing a console for one game coming out in over a year isn\'t very smart. Casual gamers know the big games coming out right now, and that is all that really matters. Why wait a whole year for a game that still is all hype and has no evidence to prove it\'s greatness. Can we say, "The Bouncer." ;) Buying an Xbox now for Project Ego isn\'t really an informed decision either.
ICO was a good experience all in all, but I wished for more.
I was only talking about the graphics. The PS2 is very powerful and will be able to compete with both the Xbox and NGC graphically. The game would have been better with more replay value, but it was still an awesome game. I still can\'t get over how well designed that castle was.
Well it\'s debatable that Nextgen and IGN do not know if a system is powerful or not. I tend to say that they do--they speak directly to devs and I\'m pretty sure they know.
So pretty much this changes depending on who they\'re talking to. If they are talking to a PS2-only developer, then the PS2 is the most powerful. If they are talking to an Xbox-only developer, then the Xbox is more powerful. etc. Even if they are talking to a multiconsole developer, the developer wouldn\'t say which is the most powerful. They would say something stupid like, "They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Blah blah blah." Most developers won\'t say which console is more powerful to outsiders because that would risk having a bad relationship with Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo.
On a side note: Does anyone else think the GT commercials don\'t do the game justice? The game looks so much better than the commercial makes it look.
That\'s what I was thinking too. They were very disappointing. But GT3 already had so much hype, it didn\'t really need advertising. Even the most casual gamers knew what it was and knew how good it was.
QuDDus, I agree with watchdog on one thing out of all the next gen system the ps2 has the oldest architecture so it in no doubt is the weakest out of the 3. But that still does not mean great games can\'t be created on it.
The PS2 is the oldest console, but it has the newest architecture. The Xbox and NGC are using architecture that\'s a decade old. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I really don\'t know...
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No but purchasing a consoloe for a group of good titles coming out is good--I was using just one as an example.
I don\'t think the PS2 can compete with GC or xbox in the long term. I\'ve read this line many times in mags: "On the condition of anonymity, a big anme developer pointed out the limitations of the PS2" or something like that. It\'s older technology, and saying that it will compete head to head is wild optimism and it just can\'t happen. And no, the opinions the staff do not change, sure they print interviews that may say one thing, but their stance has always been the same as mine--it\'s common sense that the PS2 just can\'t compete. I wouldn\'t expect it to, and no one should.
Archetecture means very little--the Saturn had all new archetecture too. My P4 gforce3 has decade old archetecture and no one would say it no powerful.
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You can\'t compare the PS2\'s success to the Saturn\'s success. This is a completely different situation. If the Saturn was given one and a half years to learn before the PSX came out, I think that the games made on it would have looked better than the N64. It was that good. The PS2 did get that extra year and a half though. This is the key factor that makes all the difference. All I can do is speculate, but that\'s all you can do too. We will just have to wait for 3 or 4 years to see who is right.
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Originally posted by IronFist
QuDDus,
The PS2 is the oldest console, but it has the newest architecture. The Xbox and NGC are using architecture that\'s a decade old. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I really don\'t know...
Your calling a modified geforce 3 old??? Ironfist you usally back up what you say but this time you drop the ball.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Your calling a modified geforce 3 old??? Ironfist you usally back up what you say but this time you drop the ball.
I think you missed something QuDDus. I said it had old architecture, not that it was old. The actual architecture of the thing is the same as it has been for years. Please don\'t accuse me of "dropping the ball" when you really don\'t know what I\'m talking about.
And another thing, Watchdog agreed that it had old architecture, and you didn\'t get on his case for saying it. Quote from Watchdog.
My P4 gforce3 has decade old archetecture and no one would say it no powerful.
Maybe you are just a little confused, or maybe you are taking Watchdog\'s side for the sake of not taking mine (because I am supporting the PS2 a lot more than he is *gasp*).
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Originally posted by IronFist
I think you missed something QuDDus. I said it had old architecture, not that it was old. The actual architecture of the thing is the same as it has been for years. Please don\'t accuse me of "dropping the ball" when you really don\'t know what I\'m talking about.
And another thing, Watchdog agreed that it had old architecture, and you didn\'t get on his case for saying it. Quote from Watchdog.
Maybe you are just a little confused, or maybe you are taking Watchdog\'s side for the sake of not taking mine (because I am supporting the PS2 a lot more than he is *gasp*).
NO...NO....IRONFIST You no you my homey. It is just watchdog seems to post these repetitive post that are too long and I don\'t like reading the same thing over and over and if he throws something new in oh well I missed it.(No offense to watchdog)
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i still think the Xbox has no future in Japan.....here in the US..yes..
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Panzer Dragoon was a great selling Saturn franchise on a system with less than 5 million sold. I believe it was the Japanese\'s SS 6th best seller of all time.
PSO v2, which, straight from the horse\'s mouth is not just an update like the DC and GC one.
Shenmue II, which hopefully Sega will rerelease there after the US debut.
Sega GT Online, and SGT2002 - bit titles.
Silent Hill 2
DOA3, which sold very well in Japan on DC and PS2 as #2.
Outrun 2 - Eric loves the original, alot.
If the Japanese public can avoid all these games, in my minds, they will be at the very bottom of the videogame food chain, even lower than New Zealand (:p)
Eric Jacob
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From what I have seen the games will be great. The effects in Blood Wake are looking good. It will be a tough month with all the great PS2 and PC games coming out but I will still do the Box.
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SweetAnnes (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/SweetAnnes)
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Panzer Dragoon was a great selling Saturn franchise on a system with less than 5 million sold. I believe it was the Japanese\'s SS 6th best seller of all time.
PSO v2, which, straight from the horse\'s mouth is not just an update like the DC and GC one.
Shenmue II, which hopefully Sega will rerelease there after the US debut.
Sega GT Online, and SGT2002 - bit titles.
Silent Hill 2
DOA3, which sold very well in Japan on DC and PS2 as #2.
Outrun 2 - Eric loves the original, alot.
If the Japanese public can avoid all these games, in my minds, they will be at the very bottom of the videogame food chain, even lower than New Zealand (:p)
Eric Jacob
I am sure the Japanese can avoid these games - just like a lot of PS2 fans as my self will. Look at how many units PS2 sold in Japan to date and then ask yourself the question:
who needs:
SegaGT if they have superb racing games on PS2?
Silent Hill 2 if they\'ve already played it on PS2 before?
DOA3 if they have Tekken 4 and VF4 (and part 2) on PS2?
Shenmue II if they already played it on DC I believe (the DC fans anyway)?
The other 2 games from Sega, fair enough. I doubt that those 3 other games you\'ve counted will help sell the X-Box in Japan though.