PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: IronFist on October 19, 2001, 09:03:25 PM
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It sounds like what Ryu was saying was the truth. DOA3 really is just DOA2 with prettier graphics and some small gameplay adjustments from DOA2 (i.e. faster sidestep, weaker counters).
http://xbox.ign.com/news/39300.html
Here are some quotes that I found interesting:
Gameplay-wise, hardcore students of DOA2 will be relieved that they won\'t have to relearn the basic system they\'ve mastered...
Meaning, not much has changed gameplay wise.
Continued from last quote:
...but for novices to the game DOA3 will allow them to easily pick up the game and deliver a decent challenge their first time around.
He he he. Yep. That\'s exactly why it, and the previous DOAs, suck. It is the biggest button masher of all time (yes, even bigger than MvsC2 IMO). And the counters... :eek: I really shouldn\'t get started with my DOA rant, because I don\'t know if I\'ll be able to stop.
There are instances where some visual effects seem to be missing; for example, there are splash effects when you enter the water but the water doesn\'t ripple every time you move. Also, in the Ice Caves level there\'s no reflection of the characters on the reflective ice floor.
Don\'t get me wrong. I know from what I\'ve seen in movies, and what I\'ve heard from other people that DOA3 is the most graphically impressive fighter ever. But I remember seeing pictures of reflections in the Ice Cave level. Why was this taken out? This is only an 80% version of the game, but that still doesn\'t explain why it was in before but gone now. Hmmm...
Oh, and I thought this was funny. Xbox.ign said that "EVERYTHING is done with perfection." (No, I didn\'t add that bold for effect. They did.) But then at the end of the paragraph, they tell us the things that are not done with perfection. lol.
Although it\'s not difficult at all to play DOA3 with the large Xbox controller, sometimes it can be aggravating pushing the proper buttons since all the main face button are pretty close to the Right Analog stick.
Who is this guy trying to fool? He first says it\'s not difficult playing DOA3 with the controller, then he says it is. Umm, ok.
Oh, and there are 17 new movies of the game. And yes, the game is beautiful (but I didn\'t notice any reflections...)
BTW, download movie number 4. It shows the aquarium stage. Hmm, where did they steal that idea from?
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_01.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_02.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_03.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_04.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_05.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_06.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_07.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_08.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_09.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_10.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_11.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_12.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_13.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_14.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_15.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_16.mov
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/doa3/doa3_17.mov
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Well now, I\'d like to see Watchdog refute this opinion now taken from a "reliable" source. Thank you Ironfist, you just made my day. :)
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I honestly don\'t think much of the IGN editors outside of those for the PS2 site. It just seems like their level of writting is not up to par (as is evidenced by the inconsitencies in this article), and they also fall for the hype prime time.
The fact that the Nintendo editors gave Zelda a 10 just made me loose a certain amount of respect for them that they have never regained in my eyes, and the way the IGN X-box editors praise DOA 3 I wouldn\'t be suprised if it too recieves a "perfect" score.
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Sigh...Just as I expected all this damn time. Same ol\' weak gameplay. I know from Tekken 3 to Tekken 4 had some new gameplay features, not that much. But, DOA2 (Well, I guess I can finally say DOA3) SUCKS compared to Tekken.
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[color=0033CC]Who said they would change the gameplay? And who doubted RYU? Look at tekken the game play in that game has not changed since the first one. Only thing I expected from doa3 was better graphics, more moves and a real storyline.
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side note: Ironfist what are trying to do? I mean I know you want to play doa3, but you don\'t want to get xbox so you try and find anything that will say doa3 is just doa2 so you won\'t feel guilty for not getting it.. Oooh how sneaky shame on you:D ;)
The gameplay may make it simular to doa2 hc, but the moves, the graphics,the fast pace, and mulitiple arena\'s serperate it from doa2 hc. But it is still cheesy.
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That finally proves my point about the DOA series and the button mashing Vs skillful players !
i remember one night at my firends house we where all playing DOA2 on the PS2 and the person that won the most was David !
now Daviad can be best described as the EDDY the Eagle EDWARDS of the Video gaming world.
So this news that DOA3 is more of the same with smoover graphics ,has only made my hart sink :crying:.
I likes my fighting games to be technical and where winning requires somthing you don\'t need in Dead or Alive
which is Skill !
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So I guess VF4 reigns supreme. (in the gameplay department)
I\'m not sure why some people expected an overhaul in DOA3\'s gameplay to begin with. Oh well.
/ dm /
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"DOA2 (Well, I guess I can finally say DOA3) SUCKS compared to Tekken"
What the hell are you going on about? You haven\'t even played DOA3, if you have it was not the full version, why dont you play a game before you make a stupid comment like that.
GT3 was just the same as GT2 but with better graphics, i didn\'t see that suffer as much as DOA3 does, and to tell you the truth this is the only fighting game i will be buying out of all the fighting games!:D
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Originally posted by Ethan_Hunt
"DOA2 (Well, I guess I can finally say DOA3) SUCKS compared to Tekken"
What the hell are you going on about? You haven\'t even played DOA3, if you have it was not the full version, why dont you play a game before you make a stupid comment like that.
I dont need to play it, you seen what Ironfist quoted:
"Gameplay-wise, hardcore students of DOA2 will be relieved that they won\'t have to relearn the basic system they\'ve mastered..."
Meaning not that much has changed, meaning it still SUCKS. I played DOA2, DOA2:LE, and DOA2:HC. All 3 of those games are the same, and they get boring quick, and I can expect the exact same for DOA3 (Unless each character has about 3x moves they usually have.)
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Originally posted by Ethan_Hunt
"DOA2 (Well, I guess I can finally say DOA3) SUCKS compared to Tekken"
What the hell are you going on about? You haven\'t even played DOA3, if you have it was not the full version, why dont you play a game before you make a stupid comment like that.
GT3 was just the same as GT2 but with better graphics, i didn\'t see that suffer as much as DOA3 does, and to tell you the truth this is the only fighting game i will be buying out of all the fighting games!:D
GT3 had a great leap and improvement in the handling department. I\'ve played Gt1 and Gt2 for hours, but GT3 really offers more than just great graphics. Sure, a few more new tracks would have been nice, but I still see the improvement within Gt3 over Gt2 to be greater than what we are seing with DoA3 over DoA2.
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Check out movie number 4!!!!!!!!! That whale is sweet!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Just a little longer til xbox is out. :eek: :eek: :eek: Awesome Xbox!!!!!!!:eek: :eek:
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Originally posted by SuupaBuu
I dont need to play it, you seen what Ironfist quoted:
"Gameplay-wise, hardcore students of DOA2 will be relieved that they won\'t have to relearn the basic system they\'ve mastered..."
Meaning not that much has changed, meaning it still SUCKS. I played DOA2, DOA2:LE, and DOA2:HC. All 3 of those games are the same, and they get boring quick, and I can expect the exact same for DOA3 (Unless each character has about 3x moves they usually have.)
All that means is the move combinations and what not are the same. look at street fighter all there moves never change played one street fighter then you can play them all the gameplay never changes. Same with tekken. So don\'t piss on doa3. Because every other fighting series does the same damn thing.
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Refute I will, and refute easily.
EVERY fighting game remains the same so that players of previous versions can easily play again.
You are telling me that hardcore SF2 players would have to learn the basics again if they want to play SFA? Absolutely not. SFA added some elements like air block, power meter, etc, but the basics are intact. You guys are so quick to jump on anything that can possibly be negative that you IGNORE what else is said in the article. Truly pathetic. In case you missed it, here\'s a quote that was curiously omitted from your post:
IGN:
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"[Tomonobu Itagaki] talks trash about Tekken and boasts his game as the best 3D fighting game. And after spending a few sleepless nights with our version of Dead Or Alive 3, I\'m inclined to agree with Mr. Itagaki that DOA3 is by far the most entertaining fighting game I\'ve played and one that comes with a good number of play options.
As I stated before in previous write-ups, the control in DOA3 is so responsive, it\'s almost as if the game is reading your thoughts
DOA3 is one of the most responsive 3D fighting games I\'ve played.
We\'ll be back with more preview updates on what\'s looking to be the best 3D fighting game ever. "
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You forgot about these I\'ll assume. And it\'s entirely likely that the pics of the reflections in the ice level was from a version further along than the IGN preview version--same goes for the water effects. You guys aren\'t able to make that intellectual leap of faith. You guys believe just what you want to believe. So go ahead and dissmiss this too.
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It looks cool but haven\'t we seen most of the those stages in other fighting games like Tekken 4 and Virtua Fighter 4? I mean look at the UFC type stage all three have a stage just like it, The aquarium stage is like the one in VF4(IMO the VF4 one looks better ). The beach stage is just like the Tekken 4 beach stage. Am I the only one that noticed it ?
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Originally posted by GAMES
It looks cool but haven\'t we seen most of the those stages in other fighting games like Tekken 4 and Virtua Fighter 4? I mean look at the UFC type stage all three have a stage just like it, The aquarium stage is like the one in VF4(IMO the VF4 one looks better ). The beach stage is just like the Tekken 4 beach stage. Am I the only one that noticed it ?
You know what GAMES? You have a good point there, its like team ninja is running out of ideas maybe. But without a doubt this game looks awesome!!!!:thepimp: :thepimp: :thepimp:
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Who said they would change the gameplay?
I\'m not asking for completely changed gameplay. I\'m asking for more gameplay. The makers can\'t bash Tekken 4 and Virtua Fighter 4 if their game is just a graphical enhancement of DOA2. AFter all the mud they were slinging, I thought this game would be more than it is.
side note: Ironfist what are trying to do? I mean I know you want to play doa3, but you don\'t want to get xbox so you try and find anything that will say doa3 is just doa2 so you won\'t feel guilty for not getting it.. Oooh how sneaky shame on you:D ;)
Correction: I did want DOA3. Like I said, after all the mud slinging from developers, I was expecting a lot more. I would rather wait for VF4 or Tekken 4 on the PS2 than spend $350 for that game. Now there is no reason for me to even want an Xbox. And hey, there\'s no reason for me to want a NGC either. Neither one of them has anything I want.
The gameplay may make it simular to doa2 hc, but the moves, the graphics,the fast pace, and mulitiple arena\'s serperate it from doa2 hc. But it is still cheesy. [/B]
The moves? So you\'re saying you played the game? Tell us about all the new moves that make this game worth the name DOA3 instead of DOA2: Very Hardcore. I\'ve seen over 30 movies, and read lots of impressions, and you are the first to even mention DOA3\'s "new moves."
Almost all the stages are stages from DOA2 with better graphics, or levels stolen from other games. I\'m sorry, but I can\'t get excited about that.
The pace looks just the same as DOA2. The faster sidestep doesn\'t add a huge element to the game. The only thing I see it doing is making the game even more turtle friendly.
Nice graphics though. (and I just watched all 17 movies from IGN, and no, there are no reflections of the characters on the floor. What happened?)
All that means is the move combinations and what not are the same. look at street fighter all there moves never change played one street fighter then you can play them all the gameplay never changes. Same with tekken. So don\'t piss on doa3. Because every other fighting series does the same damn thing.
I said this in another thread, but I\'ll repeat it here.
How similar was Street Fighter 3 to Street Fighter 2? If you have played SF3, you would now that there is so little in common that you could easily mistake SF3 for a game other than Street Fighter. Don\'t give me that "Steet Fighter has been the same for years" nonsense. Street Fighter 2 has had tons of versions. It was ok to have little gameplay changes if the name of the game is still the same: Street Fighter 2. DOA2 had 3 different versions, and they were almost identicle, and that\'s ok because they were not claiming to be a whole new game. But when you add that 3 on the end, there should be changes to go along with it.
And speaking of comparing Street Fighter to DOA. Street Fighter is the most popular 2D franchise ever. DOA is not even close to as popular. Capcom knows that we will buy the next Street Fighter, even if it is Street Fighter 2 Super Hyper Turbo Plus. But DOA doesn\'t have that huge userbase. The makers of DOA should know that they can\'t have upgrades of games and expect them to be popular with so much competition in the 3D fighting game genre.
How long have you been playing Tekken?
Tekken 1 to Tekken 2: Huge upgrade. Moves, characters, gameplay, graphics, levels, costumes. Just about everything was changed.
Tekken 2 to Tekken 3: Again, huge upgrade. Same as above.
Tekken 3 to TTT: Minor upgrade (moves, tag feature, costumes, levels, graphics), but notice the lack of a number on the end. This isn\'t the next game of the series. It\'s an intermission to make the fans happy.
TTT to Tekken 4: Huge changes. Moves, costumes, characters, GAMEPLAY, graphics, levels (every level is new). This is the biggest change in Tekken ever, which is why so many people don\'t like it (just go over to the TZ forums and see what I mean).
Watchdog,
In case you missed it, here\'s a quote that was curiously omitted from your post:
I gave the link so you could read the full impressions on your own. And yes, this thread was to point out the bad of DOA3, hence the title.
IGN
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"[Tomonobu Itagaki] talks trash about Tekken and boasts his game as the best 3D fighting game. And after spending a few sleepless nights with our version of Dead Or Alive 3, I\'m inclined to agree with Mr. Itagaki that DOA3 is by far the most entertaining fighting game I\'ve played and one that comes with a good number of play options.
As I stated before in previous write-ups, the control in DOA3 is so responsive, it\'s almost as if the game is reading your thoughts
DOA3 is one of the most responsive 3D fighting games I\'ve played.
We\'ll be back with more preview updates on what\'s looking to be the best 3D fighting game ever. "
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How credible is this guy? I posted in my thread things that he wanted to bash, but he wasn\'t able to do it because his love of the graphics and I\'m assuming love of the Xbox. If VF4, T4, SC2, or any other good fighting game was coming to the Xbox, do you think his impressions of this game would be the same?
You forgot about these I\'ll assume. And it\'s entirely likely that the pics of the reflections in the ice level was from a version further along than the IGN preview version--same goes for the water effects.
The pictures I saw were from months ago. We will see when the game is released if the reflections were just something to get people excited for their game and not really in their game, or if they are in a newer version.
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that aquarium stage looks awesome...
cant wait to play this one.
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He didn\'t bash DOA3 at all. I like the way you dismiss his opinion so easily. Even after THE two biggest names in video game review (IGN and NextGen) have said that it is the best 3d fighter ever you still cling to you desperate attempt to bash xbox. You Sir, are the one that lacks objectivity.
No new stages? Not exactly new (but give me one NEW idea--there aren\'t any, everything has been done), but what they have done to the evironments is new. They are HUGE (some of them anyway), they have all kinds of interactivity (trees, posts etc) and all kinds of break away areas--granted some of this is in previous DOA games, but it is still DOA unique.
SF3 didn\'t change the basics. The first time I played it, it did feel wierd, but I was able to be competitive if not competent with a friend of mine who had experience playing it. It\'s not like I had to learn a whole new game--many of the motions were the same, and the physics were tweeked just a little, blocking etc. There is more in common than not.
And the Tekken series has not advanced as much as you say. It underwent some radical changes after the first but after that you exaggerate the truth.
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Moves, characters, gameplay, graphics, levels, costumes.
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I\'m sure DOA3 has new moves--the lastest write up says so. There are new characters too. Gameplay has been tweeked--still uncertain how much. And, it\'s my feeling that DOA2 was close to being a solid 3D fighter--with just a few changes and tweeks in the right direction and it would be great--maybe they\'ve done that. Graphics have taken a huge step up. Levels, there are "new" levels, but originality is a question--see above. Yes there are new costumes too. What is your point?
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I gave the link so you could read the full impressions on your own. And yes, this thread was to point out the bad of DOA3, hence the title.
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Yes you quoted some of the "problems" of DOA3, but what you did is a fragmented quotation and therefore misrepresentation. Movies promos do it all the time. A commercial for Godzilla said: "Roger Ebert says Godzilla is \'original and exciting\'". In fact, Roger Ebert said: "Godzilla is a waste of time and nothing about it is original or exciting". This isn\'t exactly what was said, but the thrust of the quotes are accurate. The makers of Godzilla used what RE said, SELECTED quotes and took them out of context so to misconstrue RE\'s true feelings about the movie
You did essencially the same thing in your post--you took quotes out of context and twisted them around misleading everyone here into thinking that IGN did not like the game. When in fact they said it was perfect and, I\'ll say it again, "the best 3d fighter of all time."
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Watchdog your right from most of the reviews. They been saying doa3 is mind-blowing and as well an awesome 3d fighter. I thought doa2 played good so 3 playing similar is a good thing to me.:thepimp:
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Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said IGN didn\'t like it. All I said is Xbox.ign wouldn\'t bash the game even if it sucked. I\'ll post these two things again:
Although it\'s not difficult at all to play DOA3 with the large Xbox controller, sometimes it can be aggravating pushing the proper buttons since all the main face button are pretty close to the Right Analog stick.
There are instances where some visual effects seem to be missing; for example, there are splash effects when you enter the water but the water doesn\'t ripple every time you move. Also, in the Ice Caves level there\'s no reflection of the characters on the reflective ice floor.
See, he knows there are some problems, but he is trying to cover them up by saying they are not bad at all even after he says they are bad. This guy isn\'t very consistant with what he says.
The point of this thread is to show how little the series changed from DOA2 to DOA3, not to debate if IGN likes the game or not.
SF3 didn\'t change the basics. The first time I played it, it did feel wierd, but I was able to be competitive if not competent with a friend of mine who had experience playing it. It\'s not like I had to learn a whole new game--many of the motions were the same, and the physics were tweeked just a little, blocking etc. There is more in common than not.
Of course the basics will be the same. It wouldn\'t be the same series if it wasn\'t. But there were enough gameplay changes and enough new characters to make it worthy of the "3." DOA3 is almost identicle to DOA2. DOA3 is to DOA2 as GT3 is to GT2 IMO. The only difference is that GT2 was actually good. DOA2 was not IMO. And no, I don\'t think GT3 was a big enough change to be called the next in the series. GT2000 was a much better name.
And the Tekken series has not advanced as much as you say. It underwent some radical changes after the first but after that you exaggerate the truth.
No I didn\'t. Everything I said was 100% truth and 0% exageration. But I\'m not going to argue with you about Tekken. It is not relevant to what we are talking about -- DOA3 is DOA2 with better graphics.
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No you didn\'t say outright that IGN didn\'t like it, but from reading your post alone, one would get the idea that they weren\'t entirely thrilled with it.
And now you say you don\'t trust IGN.xbox--if they would have bashed DOA3 you would be onboard singing their praises. Do you not trust NextGen either? Why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe, just maybe, DOA3 is good?
You are not objective. If you were objective you would make some concessions and maybe begrudge that the xbox may have 2 great games for launch. And don\'t give me that IMO crap either.
IMO anyone that wears jeans is a moron and should be thrown in jail to be buggered by a group of large men.
Obviously I don\'t believe that, but that is an opinion too. The Taliban have opinions, are we going to validate those too? I\'ve preached this many times here before and I\'ll do it again. In your opinion you can dislike a game (IMO GT3 is boring), but to be objective and fair you must be willing to give credit where it is due (GT3 is a great game).
If you can\'t do this your personal bias is affecting your opinions and objectivity.
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Uhhhhhhhh..........I don\'t see the problem most ps2 fans liked doa2:hardcore didn\'t y\'all? Then doa3 is baiscially the same game but with a lot of enchanements to it. Another reason they may not like it watchdog is because its on the xbox? Or could they be biased? Watchdog and I see that doa3 will be an awesome fighting game and will it be da game to own at launch. So once you play doa3 on nov. 15 all opinions will quickly change about it....:thepimp: :thepimp: :thepimp:
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Originally posted by Watchdog
No you didn\'t say outright that IGN didn\'t like it, but from reading your post alone, one would get the idea that they weren\'t entirely thrilled with it.
I\'m sorry if that\'s how it sounded. It was not meant to say that IGN thinks DOA3 completely sucks. I admit that that was a mistake on my part. But I did give the link for anyone who wanted to read the whole article. I wasn\'t trying to hide the good or anything like that.
And now you say you don\'t trust IGN.xbox--if they would have bashed DOA3 you would be onboard singing their praises. Do you not trust NextGen either? Why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe, just maybe, DOA3 is good?
Are you saying that what IGN.Xbox said didn\'t have any inconsistancies? I know he loves the graphics (I do too), but it sounded like he was hiding something. We will see when it gets reviewed though.
You are not objective. If you were objective you would make some concessions and maybe begrudge that the xbox may have 2 great games for launch. And don\'t give me that IMO crap either.
Two great games to you may not be two great games to me. I\'m sorry, but this is all an opinion thing (and no, I don\'t want to get into the opinion vs bias debate again ;)) I will agree though that Halo is a great console FPS. But I can\'t say that DOA3 is a great fighting game, because to me, it\'s not. It is an old game with sub-par gameplay masked with great graphics, nothing more.
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Firstly, for someone who\'s never played DOA3, you make some startling remarks. Tell me, will I one day be wealthy?
IGN and NextGen: "BEST 3D FIGHTING GAME EVER."
They didn\'t make any such remarks about the first one or the second one; do you think Team Ninja could have made some changes to bring about such a controversial statment? Just maybe?
Yeah, but those inconsistencies are very minor. Mountain out of a molehill? They didn\'t like Munch much and said so in their impressions. PG has blocky flat buildings, they said so in their impressions. Halo and DOA3 are the best of their genre, they said so in their impressions.
You have argued yourself into a corner. The only reputable source that have said any different (from IGN and NextGen) is Ryu (Who is curiously a PS2 owner. Coincidence?).
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"Wealthy" is entirely an opinion thing. :D ;)
They didn\'t say anything about the first or second one, but they did say that novices to the series will be able to pick it up and actually be decent competition. IMO, that is not a good thing. And that is exactly how it was in DOA2. They also said that experts won\'t have to relearn the system. What they meant by this exactly is unknown, but it points to DOA3 being awfully similar to DOA2 IMO.
The inconsistancies pointed to one thing: he wasn\'t going to bash DOA3 even if there are problems. Yes, they are minor, but they are there.
Watchdog, you know Ryu isn\'t a Sony fanboy or anything like that. Yes, it is a coincidence.
DOA2 got amazing reviews from just about every magazine even though it was the most shallow fighter at the time. I think DOA3 will be the same way. A game with graphics as good as those, who would be crazy enough to bash it?! Hopefully some respected magazines (Famitsu) will see through its desquise(sp?) and give it a lower rating for it\'s gameplay problems.
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You have argued yourself into a corner. The only reputable source that have said any different (from IGN and NextGen) is Ryu (Who is curiously a PS2 owner. Coincidence?).
ROFL, so it\'s not OK for people who give imporessions of games to own other consoles now? Please note, the X-Box is not out yet and none of you own it either. Curiously, I am a PS2 owner, but because I like good games and want them in abundance. I am buying an X-Box and a Cube and I currently own a Dreamcast as well, yet you continue to use that simple statement as means to show that my opinions is null and void.
You meantion to Ironfist that he should try to consider that DOA3 may be a good game, then I ask you to consider the opposite, that DOA3 may be a bad game in pretty clothing. I played DOA2 on the PS2, I played DOA2 on the DC, I played DOA on the PSX and DOA again on the Saturn, I hated every version of it, but I especially hated part 2 and for part 3 to be the same as 2 but only prettier is what pisses me off the most. I actually have a first hand account experience of this now and I am not fueled by what everyone else says or by any other opinion.
Itagaki talks a lot of trash and shows us a game that is sub-par to Virtua Fighter in terms of gameplay and yet he claims his game is better. Of course developers will do that, but if you can\'t back up your claims with a product that is up to snuff with the competition, then I will bash you for it, just like so many people here bash Jason Rubin and Lorne Lanning.
I hear a lot of talk about certain games being the best ever in their genre, but later those comments are not backed up in their reviews. Conker was supposed to be the raunchiest greatest platformer ever and what happened? It fell into the depths of hell. The Bouncer was supposed to be the greatest brawler ever and it too fell into the depths of hell. DOA is no eexception to these possibilities and I think it deserves an honorable mention among the games that were hyped up and failed to deliver.
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One point at a time.
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"They didn\'t say anything about the first or second one, but they did say that novices to the series will be able to pick it up and actually be decent competition. IMO, that is not a good thing. And that is exactly how it was in DOA2. They also said that experts won\'t have to relearn the system. What they meant by this exactly is unknown, but it points to DOA3 being awfully similar to DOA2 IMO."
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They never said DOA2 is the best fighter ever. They never said DOA2 is better than Tekken or VF. They did say DOA3 is better than anything anywhere. Novice Tekken players can jump around and do damage too. Don\'t say any differently because it is absolutely true. They very rarely win a match but an unorthadox opponent can throw a wrench into anyone\'s gameplan. Novice SC players can too. Same goes for SF. A good control scheme can do this. Experts didn\'t have to relearn the SF, VF or Tekken system either.
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The inconsistancies pointed to one thing: he wasn\'t going to bash DOA3 even if there are problems. Yes, they are minor, but they are there.
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Why? How do you konw that? This is absolutely the most ridiculous statement in this thread. Maybe he was tired or maybe it was an oversight and he had a deadline. Maybe, *gasp* he is actually human and not one of the crazy miniature robot men we all always thought he was!
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Watchdog, you know Ryu isn\'t a Sony fanboy or anything like that. Yes, it is a coincidence.
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IYO.
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DOA2 got amazing reviews from just about every magazine even though it was the most shallow fighter at the time. I think DOA3 will be the same way. A game with graphics as good as those, who would be crazy enough to bash it?! Hopefully some respected magazines (Famitsu) will see through its desquise(sp?) and give it a lower rating for it\'s gameplay problems.
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Good reviews yes, but they all said shallow or not as deep as VF or something along those lines. So now you say NextGen and IGN are hesitant to bash a great looking game? C\'mon! Bouncer?
And why do you keep saying it has gameplay problems? YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED IT! So Famitsu is good but from now on, NextGen and IGN are not to be trusted?
Make up your mind.
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Sure, Ryu, you can have opinions. But I\'m going to point out the obvious discrepencies with credible review houses. If a single hands on preview mentioned something was amiss in the gameplay department of DOA3 I would listen, but so far that hasn\'t happened. So far it\'s been Best this, best that and I\'ll believe accredited sources before I believe you or Ironfist or anyone else. They\'ve been around a long time, and frankly you haven\'t. I don\'t know you, but I do know that thousands of people around desperately want the xbox to fail for reasons unknown to me. You could be one of these I don\'t know, so for now, until I actually play the games, I\'ll believe the people who have been around. If that offends you, my apologies.
I have considered it, but NextGen and IGN keep me optimistic.
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Itagaki talks a lot of trash and shows us a game that is sub-par to Virtua Fighter in terms of gameplay and yet he claims his game is better. Of course developers will do that, but if you can\'t back up your claims with a product that is up to snuff with the competition, then I will bash you for it, just like so many people here bash Jason Rubin and Lorne Lanning.
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Blah blah blah sounds like an opinion, that, as I\'ve stated, I hold in contention. And I\'ll state for the record that NextGen and IGN brought up those statements and said DOA3 backs them up.
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Conker was supposed to be the raunchiest greatest platformer ever and what happened? It fell into the depths of hell. The Bouncer was supposed to be the greatest brawler ever and it too fell into the depths of hell.
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Yes, but that was advanced hype. As the game got near completeion and people had it in their hands, they let us know. People have had DOA3 in their hands and they let us know.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Sure, Ryu, you can have opinions. But I\'m going to point out the obvious discrepencies with credible review houses. If a single hands on preview mentioned something was amiss in the gameplay department of DOA3 I would listen, but so far that hasn\'t happened. So far it\'s been Best this, best that and I\'ll believe accredited sources before I believe you or Ironfist or anyone else. They\'ve been around a long time, and frankly you haven\'t. I don\'t know you, but I do know that thousands of people around desperately want the xbox to fail for reasons unknown to me. You could be one of these I don\'t know, so for now, until I actually play the games, I\'ll believe the people who have been around. If that offends you, my apologies.
I have considered it, but NextGen and IGN keep me optimistic.
Okay, so Ryu has actually PLAYED the game, and yet you would believe IGN & NextGen to be LESS biased and MORE accurate sources of information than Ryu?
In case you haven\'t realized these \'professional\' sites kiss every major company\'s ass. Just read their reviews, they\'re littered with inconsistencies and contradictions. IGN wrote several paragraphs about GT3\'s faults and yet gave it a near perfect score.
What do you think would happen if IGN absoultely lambasted EA Sports, or SCEA, or Microsoft, or Nintendo? They wouldn\'t recieve their advance-previews and their freebees on time. Don\'t believe me? Just take a look at Sports Reviewers, they lambasted EA Sports\' and some of their releases over the past few years and now they don\'t get any games from EA.
Ryu, on the other hand, has no vested interest in these companies, he doesn\'t need to kiss their asses and I, and many others here, can vouch for his integrity. I hold the opinions of many forum members here much higher than the opinions of those ass kissers at Gamespot and IGN. Do you value GamePro\'s \'reviews\' highly too?
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You have no idea what drives the market place. If they didn\'t put their games in the mags then where would the hype be? Without hype games would sell significantly less. Look at Bouncer--it got ridiculed in the press, and I still see Square games being previewed.
And even if that isn\'t true everyone here uses those sources as evidence if you will, but when those same sources contradict one of their fine points then those sources are ass-kissers, bias, fanboys, etc.
And why do I, more often than not, agree completely with magazine impressions? I look at 4 or 5 accredited impressions (I consider forum impressions too, just not as significantly), get a general concensus and make a decision. Am I too frightened that I\'ll not get any advanced copies because I find myself liking the same games? Give your head a shake.
Ryu has no vested interests? So just because someone doesn\'t write for a mag that means there are no vested interests? Clearly, you have not thought this through. Why then are there so many fanboys and console huggers? OR...wait...that means that everyone here that likes DOA3 must write for a magazine because they crave their advanced copies. WOW, what a break through. I\'m calling Dateline and CNN right now!
Think a little before you post.
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If magazine or site X bashes a game from a particular company (say EA Sports), but magazines Y, Z & W proclaim it\'s the best ever, and this trend trend continues with other titles from the same company - so site X points out the flaws in each title\'s gameplay, while Y,Z & W **** out the same EA Sports\' PR bull**** - how \'friendly\' to site X will EA Sports be? When it comes to inviting people to motion capture sessions, will site X get many invitations?
These sites are, by and large, good for one thing - media. I\'ve read supposedly \'hands-on\' previews of games that just paraphrase the PR sheet that comes with the beta. I should know, I\'ve had advance copies of several games to preview and review, and laughed at seeing \'previews\' of games that could have been written in 5 minutes or less.
Am I saying that ALL the opinions of these sites and magazines are bunk? No, but just reading a review you find so many contradictions and inconsistencies - even comparing a preview to a review you can find a massive change in tone, even when the preview was supposed to be \'hands on\'. And so I take all these reviews with a grain of salt, and I trust the opinions of people I know on these forums more than I do guys who write for IGN or Gamespot.
I think if you were to read the reviews Ryu has written on these forums and read the majority of his posts, he\'s definately NOT a fanboy or a \'console hugger\'.
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Originally posted by Lavan
Ryu, on the other hand, has no vested interest in these companies, he doesn\'t need to kiss their asses and I, and many others here, can vouch for his integrity. I hold the opinions of many forum members here much higher than the opinions of those ass kissers at Gamespot and IGN.
WORD.
Watchdog, if you were here longer, you would know who Ryu really is and why most of us trust him so much. Until he gave his impressions of DOA3, I was thinking it was going to be the best fighter ever based on how the developer was bashing Tekken and VF. When I read Ryu\'s review though, it made me think. Who would be more likely to lie to me, Ryu, or the developers and some magazines?
You might not know this, but most magazines gave DOA2:HC way too high of a score.
PSM gave it a 9.
IGN gave it a 8.7.
Gamepro gave it a 5 in graphics and funfactor, and a 4.5 in control and sound.
Did I have a level 5 funfactor when I played that game? Heck no. I played it for a few days and realized, man this game sucks. I\'m playing TTT. Oh, and most magazines did say DOA2:HC was better than TTT. I know Gamepro and PSM did. (I wonder how long they thought that until they realized the gameplay sucked) That is why I trust Ryu\'s opinion over any game magazine\'s.
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Originally posted by ooseven
i remember one night at my firends house we where all playing DOA2 on the PS2 and the person that won the most was David !
Who\'s David?
If you think no one with skill plays DOA2:HC, dats cause u ain\'t played the Emperor.
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Well, in my opinion TTT was pretty bad, so I agree with that review. Talk about a game with short legs!
You ask again who am I going to believe and I\'m going to believe the people who have shared my opinion (by and large) for many years.
Just recently, I found his ICO review far too forgiving. ICO is a fine game, to be sure, but not nearly the game he made it out to be (I have no desire to go through it again--even though it doesn\'t take very long). That\'s just one instance.
I don\'t find it hard to believe he\'s respected here--this is a PS board and as I\'ve seen many times, filled with rabid fanboys and console huggers. Now, I\'m not lumping Ryu into that category and I\'m not saying his opinion is invalid. What I am saying is that NG and IGN have earned my trust over many years and I\'ll believe them. Now I\'ve disagreed with them in the past, and Ryu \'s opinion may actually be what I come to think, but for now I\'m going with the experience.
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Sony forum, Nintendo forum, X-Box forum, Dreamcast forum, it doesn\'t matter, I have never been accused of being a fanboy like I am in this one. I guess if I had a "sponsored by snowball.com" or a "Editor of Nextgen" tag fallowing my name, my words would be believed by even the largest of nay-sayers. I guess until then, my opinions are completely invalid. Hell, I gave ICO an 8.9, IGN gave it an even higher rating of 9+, and PSM gave it an even lower rating of 7/10. I said it wasn\'t all that replayable though and my score reflected that. I dunno, I guess all I\'ve reviewed is ICO and like 15 other Sony games, not like I haven\'t reviewed any Nintendo games... OH WAIT! I HAVE! In fact, I reviewed several Gameboy Advance games while being commisioned to work for a Nintendo site and those same Gameboy Advance reviews can be found on this site in the off-topic section as well. It doesn\'t end there though, I also want an X-Box really badly for the games that it will have in the future which are numerous and long anticipated for me.
Still though, it all comes down to who is being paid the money to do something. That\'s why NextGEN and IGN are seen as the reviewers, but in fact, all publications, online or off is composed of people just like you and I who are partial to different things. Credibility goes towards two things, being truthful and actually playing the games and I present both. I don\'t see how IGN or NextGEN is more credible then I. You said that IGN and NextGEN has been doing this whole review thing and such longer then I, but can you tell me any of the reviewer\'s names? I bet you can\'t. That\'s the problem, because they are paid, they are considered experts, but they are just regular people doing a job that I do here for free. What makes me different from them is that no one sends me any preview copies or any free games, I buy all my stuff personally and that makes my opinions a bit more cynical in terms of why it\'s worth my money and why it\'s not. The only other thing is that since I\'m on such a limited budget, buying the terrible games or games I see as being total duds or stuff that just isn\'t for me is something I can not do.
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Watchdog...Log off, and close windows, you\'ve been shut down
ugh, i suck
:fro: toot on
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1 preview, saying DOA3 plays "similar" to DOA 2, and you\'re all jumping on it saying it\'s a button masher?
here\'s another one.
http://www.gamespy.com/previews/august01/doa3/index2.shtm
But what we found really surprising was how easy the game played. It\'s not a button mashing games by any means, there is some technique and timing going on, but Itagaki has successfully created a game that will not only appeal to the hardcore market, but the casual gamer as well."
and the debate restarts...
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
Watchdog...Log off, and close windows, you\'ve been shut down
ugh, i suck
*IronFist giggles to himself* (wow bob, you\'re on a roll tonight. First the "spectator sport" joke, and now this.) :)
Someguy, like Lavan said, "...comparing a preview to a review you can find a massive change in tone, even when the preview was supposed to be \'hands on\'." This is so true. I\'m sure you\'ve read a preview of a game where the game sounds awesome, but then when it is reviewed, the reviewers actually tell you about the bad stuff. I know I have. The version they were previewing was only 50% complete. Of course since it was a work in progress they didn\'t bother mentioning the bad, because for all they knew, it would be fixed by the final version.
But this said by the DOA3 creator Tomonobu Itagaki in that article was kind of interesting (and no, I\'m not talking about all the bashing he does).
Other games are too straightforward; they require a lot more knowledge to learn the moves. Learning and mastering DOA 3 is more natural for the player."
Er, um, yes, natural. *wink* *wink*
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Originally posted by IronFist
I\'m not asking for completely changed gameplay. I\'m asking for more gameplay. The makers can\'t bash Tekken 4 and Virtua Fighter 4 if their game is just a graphical enhancement of DOA2. AFter all the mud they were slinging, I thought this game would be more than it is.
[color=0033CC]You quoted this from IGN.[/COLOR] "Gameplay-wise, hardcore students of DOA2 will be relieved that they won\'t have to relearn the basic system they\'ve mastered... "
[color=0033CC]All that says to me is the Move system has not changed. I am sure it will feel just like previous doa but how many games don\'t?[/COLOR]
Originally posted by IronFist
Correction: I did want DOA3. Like I said, after all the mud slinging from developers, I was expecting a lot more. I would rather wait for VF4 or Tekken 4 on the PS2 than spend $350 for that game. Now there is no reason for me to even want an Xbox. And hey, there\'s no reason for me to want a NGC either. Neither one of them has anything I want.
[color=0033CC]Again your speaking as though you\'ve played doa3.[/COLOR]
The moves? So you\'re saying you played the game? Tell us about all the new moves that make this game worth the name DOA3 instead of DOA2: Very Hardcore. I\'ve seen over 30 movies, and read lots of impressions, and you are the first to even mention DOA3\'s "new moves."
Almost all the stages are stages from DOA2 with better graphics, or levels stolen from other games. I\'m sorry, but I can\'t get excited about that.
The pace looks just the same as DOA2. The faster sidestep doesn\'t add a huge element to the game. The only thing I see it doing is making the game even more turtle friendly.
Nice graphics though. (and I just watched all 17 movies from IGN, and no, there are no reflections of the characters on the floor. What happened?)
[color=0033CC]How do you know all the stages are from doa2? Ign, gamespot all gave first impression and they never pointed that out and they have played the game. And I never said "NEW moves" I said the moves. Meaning they won\'t be the same because it is Doa3 and I am sure there are new movies. [/COLOR]
Originally posted by IronFist
I said this in another thread, but I\'ll repeat it here.
How similar was Street Fighter 3 to Street Fighter 2? If you have played SF3, you would now that there is so little in common that you could easily mistake SF3 for a game other than Street Fighter. Don\'t give me that "Steet Fighter has been the same for years" nonsense. Street Fighter 2 has had tons of versions. It was ok to have little gameplay changes if the name of the game is still the same: Street Fighter 2. DOA2 had 3 different versions, and they were almost identicle, and that\'s ok because they were not claiming to be a whole new game. But when you add that 3 on the end, there should be changes to go along with it.
And speaking of comparing Street Fighter to DOA. Street Fighter is the most popular 2D franchise ever. DOA is not even close to as popular. Capcom knows that we will buy the next Street Fighter, even if it is Street Fighter 2 Super Hyper Turbo Plus. But DOA doesn\'t have that huge userbase. The makers of DOA should know that they can\'t have upgrades of games and expect them to be popular with so much competition in the 3D fighting game genre.
How long have you been playing Tekken?
Tekken 1 to Tekken 2: Huge upgrade. Moves, characters, gameplay, graphics, levels, costumes. Just about everything was changed.
Tekken 2 to Tekken 3: Again, huge upgrade. Same as above.
Tekken 3 to TTT: Minor upgrade (moves, tag feature, costumes, levels, graphics), but notice the lack of a number on the end. This isn\'t the next game of the series. It\'s an intermission to make the fans happy.
TTT to Tekken 4: Huge changes. Moves, costumes, characters, GAMEPLAY, graphics, levels (every level is new). This is the biggest change in Tekken ever, which is why so many people don\'t like it (just go over to the TZ forums and see what I mean).
[color=0033CC]Let me put in your quote again."[/color] "Gameplay-wise, hardcore students of DOA2 will be relieved that they won\'t have to relearn the basic system they\'ve mastered"
[color=0033CC]That refers to the moves. If you only played sf2 in your whole life. And then you decided hey let me play ssex3 on ps2 you will find out that the basic system is still the same. Ryu,ken,chun li, ect...ect... all the same movies. And you can pick up and character and just mimmick other player combination and to find out new player moves.
oK YOUR SAYING in tekken1 and tekken2 moves,constumes, graphics and what not. Now your contridicting yourself. Because Doa3 has better graphics than doa2 hc, it has new levels, it has new costumes, and I am sure it has new moves.
But what has not changed in tekken is thing you don\'t get but you quoted it. Once again I will repost what you quoted ironfist. [/color]
"Gameplay-wise, hardcore students of DOA2 will be relieved that they won\'t have to relearn the basic system they\'ve mastered..."
[color=0033CC]And that once agains refers to move system in the game. So your going to come on this forum and say that the move system in t1-t2-t3 and TTT was not the same move system? Come on Ironfist sure they added a couple moves when they put in a new character in, but be honest the move system is the same in all the games. I can play t2 and not tekken again until ttt and feel rite a home with the move system.
And that is what I ment. There was no comparing streetfighter to doa3 I never did that. I was talking about the move system in the games. And that was all. But doa3 may be cheesy as doa2 but don\'t make it seem like doa3 is first fighter to be cheesy.
And watchdog I would take ryu\'s opinion over anything ign says at least I know he is not getting any perks form ms. Is he;) And ryu gives some of the most intellegent gaming insights [/color]
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.angelfire.com%2Fmac%2Fquddus702%2Fjames.jpg&hash=6982b13e1aa67b0835996afe98ba9fc08862ee17)
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Not to bust your guys bubble but WTF else do you want in a fighting game! I\'m not talking just about DOA3 but Tekken and Soul Calibur as well! You can do just about everything that is possible in the game the only thing you can do is the Micheal Jackson crotch grab...I mean damn....
I forgot who said it and I\'m too lazy to go back and see but \'More Gameplay\' thats being a little too harsh on any developer of a fighting game. Personally as good as DOA3 looks I\'m not into fighting games and can\'t see them doing much with the genre in the near future anyway.
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See what must not say what is good, what we have not had our hands on yet. Yeah, everyone thinkgs DOA3 will be better because it should, but it doesn\'t have to be.
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Bob, you\'re not funny.
Nothing new has been said.
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you can button mash in any game. Winning while doing it is impossible against an experienced player, that goes for VF, DOA, Tekken, Street FIghter, MvC2, etc.
MvC2 is NO button masher, if you dont know how to do rising attacks and keep doing it, while knowing the tricks of when to do supers and counters, etc, you will get killed People who call it a masher have neevr played a master at the game, same goes for DOA2. I thoguht it was a masher when I played it with a bud who had owned it for a couple months on DC, We played for an hour and he killed me, easily.
DOA has great gameplay for people who actually try and play it, it just isn\'t as fun as mastering Akira or Shun Di from VF.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by SomeGuy
1 preview, saying DOA3 plays "similar" to DOA 2, and you\'re all jumping on it saying it\'s a button masher?
here\'s another one.
http://www.gamespy.com/previews/august01/doa3/index2.shtm
and the debate restarts...
Oh no, its Someguy from PS2web, and yet you prove you can\'t debate worth a ****. *cough* again DOA3 is going to be a good game, but i doubt that it will match VF4 in gameplay, like Ryu said :)
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Oh no, its Someguy from PS2web
LOL that\'s exactly what I thought too...
as for the rest of this debate; I just think the bottom line is, it\'s Dead or Alive and seing that not many were impressed by part 2 on the PS2, many were hoping for \'more\' gameplay in part 3, which turns out to be wishful thinking.
And before this debate starts again, I might have not played the game yet myself, but I trust Ryu\'s impressions along with the movies of ingame footage I have seen that underline his preview. The movies show nothing different than what I\'ve experienced with DoA2 (other than the impressive graphics, which I think VF4 tops).
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noooo don\'t let it be someguy from ps2web!!
;)
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Originally posted by SteveFox
noooo don\'t let it be someguy from ps2web!!
;)
Welcome to the boards man, and yeah, its him alright, he just better relize that he couldn\'t debate against MOST people here. He\'s almost like Next Genner.
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This is from the December issue of EGM that I got today.
BUT YOU MIGHT NOT LIKE IT IF...you\'re expecting groundbreaking innovation. Fighters will be fighters, and while the graphics in DOA3 are certainly unparalleled by any other in the console market, the game-play is still very similar to that of DOA2: Hardcore for the PS2. It\'s mostly more of the same but much snazzier.
I\'ll respond to your responses when I have more time. I just wanted to point out yet another source that says it\'s more of the same.
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Thx
and: Very true
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Perhaps DOA3 IS too good to be true. This is just got a whole lot more interesting.
This doesn\'t really affect me too much because I quite enjoyed DOA2. But others...well we know about the others heh.
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Just adding logs to the fire :)
Originally Posted at Gamespot
Grudge Matches!
DOA3 vs. Tekken 4
DOA3 is much prettier, but the Tekken series has superior gameplay. Most of us weren\'t overly enamored with DOA3. It looks great, but it plays practically the same as DOA2. According to one of our most skilled fighting game players on staff, Jeff Gerstmann, it\'s not the type of game that hard-core fighting game fans will get into. Take that as you will. Miguel seems a bit more upbeat than Jeff, however. He claims that DOA3 takes second place only to Soul Calibur for the best 3D fighting game ever made. Miguel wanted to make sure that I let you know that the comparison doesn\'t include arcade games, and he considers games like Virtua Fighter 4 to be superior.
Link: http://gamespot.com/gamespot/features/video/letters/
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Originally posted by IronFist
This is from the December issue of EGM that I got today.
I\'ll respond to your responses when I have more time. I just wanted to point out yet another source that says it\'s more of the same.
All I am saying is so is Tekken 2.3.and TTT like I said in my last reply are three games that are virtually the same game. Just a little touched up.
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kangu-G^Ltt^s, thanks for that quote. :D lol.
Originally posted by QuDDus
All I am saying is so is Tekken 2.3.and TTT like I said in my last reply are three games that are virtually the same game. Just a little touched up.
Ok, Tekken 3 might be similar to Tekken 2, but not to the degree that DOA3 is to DOA2. Why did I play Tekken 3 tons more than I played Tekken 2? I\'m thinking because it was so much deeper. (or maybe I was just a lot more addicted. I don\'t know) And another thing, Tekken 2 was a great game that didn\'t need too many advancements in Gameplay (but it still got them), but DOA2 was not that great IMO.
The reason I made this topic is because of this: The maker was claiming DOA3 whaled on Tekken 4 and VF4. If he didn\'t say that, I wouldn\'t be bashing DOA3 so much. But after what he said, I expected DOA3 to be a lot better game than DOA2, not just have better graphics than DOA2. I am somewhat disappointed.
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I\'ve been dissapointed since the first day I laid hands on the X-Box controller with DOA3 loaded. I\'m just glad sites and certain forum members are just NOW, at least a week after I wrote the impressions, beginning to realize my words are not from a "fanboy" perspective.
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Truth be told I never was a big fan of Tekken (esp #4 ugh) gameplay. I much prefer VF. I\'m glad it\'s coming out for PS2.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Truth be told I never was a big fan of Tekken (esp #4 ugh) gameplay. I much prefer VF. I\'m glad it\'s coming out for PS2.
WORD (except for that T4 thing. He he. :)) Tekken 4 isn\'t perfect, but it is still a fun game to play. I just hope they fix the glitches and soup up the graphics a little. And a few new characters would be nice. :)