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Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Nigs Reborn on October 24, 2001, 09:28:06 AM
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Well... since the lackluster NGC games are really pissing me off I guess I\'ll just start a Xbox vs PS2 Debate....
Graphicly: (From what seen so far.)
Playstation 2: 9.5
Games like GT3 just show how far PS2 has come... Right now a new wave of second generation games will show what ps2 can really do. It still has alot left in it.
Xbox: 8.9
Okay sure it may be first generation, but it was supposed to be this amazing graphics machine.. With its Nvidia card.... Well the games look like First Gen PS2 games.... Is that a good thing?
Games So Far:
Playstation 2: 9.7
Games like ZOE, GT3, Onimusha, Devil May Cry, MGS: 2(Coming)... I could go on and on... They look simply amazing. Play amazing and are definetly on the top 10 of PS2 games.
Xbox: 9.3
Games like DOA3, Halo, and Project Ego impress me.... everything else.... Just makes me want to laugh.... What else can you expect... Im waiting for some of those "Killer Aps" mabye Micrsoft needs a dictionary of video games to look up what a Killer App Really is.
People Opion\'s/Developer Opinion:
Playstation 2: 9.7
Everyone is mainly betting on the PS2, even if they have gone cross platform as far as developers go. People seem to be less eager when it comes to the Xbox and NGC. So PS2 Seems like their dream child for now atleast.
Xbox: 9.0
Not that developers and people actually hate the Xbox they just don\'t think Microsoft could actually do anything in the Gaming Industry... then that Sony argument comes back...
Overall: PS2 is winning right now, but xbox hasn\'t even launched... this argument will be ended when Xbox shows me one killer app... im tierd of DOA games... Im tierd of FPS\'s like HALO. SHOW ME SOMETHING ORIGINAL.... Project Ego mabye...
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I can\'t afford any gaming consoles anyway, so I don\'t care which one \'wins\'.
I\'m just glad I still have my old PSX with - soon - ISS Pro Evolution Soccer 2! w00t! :D
But so far I think PS2 seems to be staying in the top... the games just keep on coming - and they get better and better. But overall any next gen console should be worth a purchase (at least after a while).
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Originally posted by Nigs Reborn
Well... since the lackluster NGC games are really pissing me off I guess I\'ll just start a Xbox vs PS2 Debate....
Do yourself a favor and pick up the new issue of EGM... And when you finish reading it, please roll it up and smack yourself across the face a few times with it. That should do you good.
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Oh my god... Resident Evil.... OOOOH such a good NGC game... not.... NGC has crap and I do have subscription to EGM and well all I have to say to you is... I was going to buy NGC... I am a somewhat Nintendo Fan but now I despise them.
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Originally posted by Nigs Reborn
Oh my god... Resident Evil.... OOOOH such a good NGC game... not.... NGC has crap and I do have subscription to EGM and well all I have to say to you is... I was going to buy NGC... I am a somewhat Nintendo Fan but now I despise them.
I agree I think Sony and M$ line-up is ssssssoooooooo much better than gamecube\'s line-up of games. As for ps2 it looks like it may own the christmas season with all the AAA titles coming out at once. Like Nigs Reborn said xbox is looking very good as well. Its going to be very strong competion for sony. :thepimp: :thepimp: :thepimp: :thepimp:
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Whatever. :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
How can you possibly despise Nintendo?! Shouldn\'t you be despising things like..um...you know...terrorism and..evil and stuff? Don\'t waste your time hating something that is oh so good; because that just makes you oh so wrong.
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Originally posted by Delphian
Whatever. :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
How can you possibly despise Nintendo?! Shouldn\'t you be despising things like..um...you know...terrorism and..evil and stuff? Don\'t waste your time hating something that is oh so good; because that just makes you oh so wrong.
So its wrong not to like nintendo!?!?!?!?!?:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
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It\'s wrong to HATE Nintendo. You can Dislike something without having a complete and utter hatred for it.
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Originally posted by Delphian
It\'s wrong to HATE Nintendo. You can Dislike something without having a complete and utter hatred for it.
I will tell you what, I hate Nintendo! I just feels sorry for peopel to buy their consoles! Ugghhh...even though NGC repeatedly say that NGC is not a kiddie console any more, I don\'t know what Luigi Mansion, Pikmin, Mario is...Like many 3rd party developers had said, NGC target at kids even though they don\'t admit it.
PS2 all the way! I think when compare xbox to ps2, i think ps2 get kinda pricey!
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You lost all credibility when you gave Xbox a lower graphics score. First gen titles are better then anything anywhere, and that\'s the indisputable truth.
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*looks at DOA3*
*looks at PS2 games he owns*
*looks at lower XBox graphics score*
*laughs at Nigs*
The only one who should be allowed to create these kinds of topics are the neutral people.
Clip, SonyFan, Ddaryl (to some extent), Wiseblood (now there is a name you havent heard in a while, me (? DC would win :)), etc.
games for PS2 are better IMO, because they are out, while it may bee til after the end of the year til X-Box gets more great games out.
Eric Jacob
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graphically I don\'t think x-box will ever look too much better from what it already does. 1st gen, but it\'s supposed to be built like a computer so the developers are having a real easy time programing everything already. the ps2 is built with different technology n they are just starting to be able to make stuff look advanced.
n I havent seen nothing that looks too good so far. They probably can look a lot better than the current ps2 games if the developers but more time/money into their games which they probably aint doing for 1st gen games.
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It\'s a misconception that games on the xbox won\'t improve graphically because the xbox is easy to develop for. For one, these games were rushed for release. Two, and more importantly, the SNES, PSX, and the Genesis were also very easy to develop for and games looked incredibly better towards the end of their life respective cycles when compared to their
beginning.
Fact being, the PS2 will get better and it is now, but that doesn\'t mean xbox devs won\'t learn new tricks either.
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Yes, the PSX was easy to develop for and the games did look better towards the end - but don\'t forget that looking good wasn\'t the only thing. Need for Speed 3 was as good as it got with graphics - sure, Need for Speed: high stakes looked better, but did you ever notice that the framerate sunk? GT was nice to, GT2 looked even better - but did anyone notice that the resolution was worse than in part 1?
While games for PSX might have looked better towards the end, they sure suffered with framerates problems or turned down resolutions. Just look at Shenmue for DC... mindblowing graphics.. with huh, framerate issues, massive pop ups.. coming from one of the best developers too (and no, this game wasn\'t rushed). If you think an easy system will improve as much as we will see it for PS2, I think you\'ll be in for some kind of suprise...
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Graphics suck. They should in no way determine wether or not a game is good
Vib Ribbon for life!!!
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I have a similar problem with Samwise.
money has been running out because of Playstation 2. I have bought way too many quality titles, and now I see my money-stash is half empty. Enough for few games + a little pile of money, but not for a new console.
I don\'t care either wich of the consoles win anymore - I have had it all with Ps2.
and now, just thinking about tomorrow, when I will quite probably get GTA3, and the coming months, when I\'ll be playing Tony Hawk 3, and next year, when I will kick some buttses as Snake...
ah the joy!
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Originally posted by know-it-all-wanna-be
I don\'t know what Luigi Mansion, Pikmin, Mario is...
I\'ll tell you what they are, they\'re games with great gameplay! And if all of you haters were to get over this stupid kiddy excuse and actually play these games you\'d be hooked. I speak the truth! All hail the truth!!
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*BUMP* This topic is getting old and ppl love there ps2 too much rite now to give an honest opinion on anything outside of it. And you clearly are using bias when scoring xbox games. So this topic is null and void. Your just too bias to make a thread like this.(I am agreeing with alteredbeat)
*BUMP*
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Yea, how can you rate xbox games when they havent been released yet. I know some people have got to play them, but probably not enough too really judge the games
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
*looks at DOA3*
*looks at PS2 games he owns*
*looks at lower XBox graphics score*
*laughs at Nigs*
The only one who should be allowed to create these kinds of topics are the neutral people.
Clip, SonyFan, Ddaryl (to some extent), Wiseblood (now there is a name you havent heard in a while, me (? DC would win :)), etc.
games for PS2 are better IMO, because they are out, while it may bee til after the end of the year til X-Box gets more great games out.
Eric Jacob
What do you mean for neutral People ?
Xbox: 8.9
Okay sure it may be first generation, but it was supposed to be this amazing graphics machine.. With its Nvidia card.... Well the games look like First Gen PS2 games.... Is that a good thing?
well...X-Box launch games look great...I don\'t know why you don\'t like them graphically...
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Originally posted by Delphian
I\'ll tell you what they are, they\'re games with great gameplay! And if all of you haters were to get over this stupid kiddy excuse and actually play these games you\'d be hooked. I speak the truth! All hail the truth!!
I dont think so, yes they all (except luigies mansion which is said to be boring) will have great gameplay. I personallly get turned down when a game looks as if it is made for a small kid, take zelda. The gameboy versions which where very cartooney where great, but the new version looks like some powerpuff movie game, it just turns me down. Pokemon is something adult and teen gamers despise because it is not aimed at them.
But you are right, gamecube in not kiddie (except for the design) but Nintendo as a developer still is! and the second or third party games dont count. Nearly every game that nintendo has released is cute and fluffy, there are some exceptions but im talking about the majority
Gamecube will be great though, Im looking foward playing Rogue leader, Sc2 and The RE remakes. Its just not enough for many (including myself) to buy one
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Yeah, anyone can pick out games that looked better but had framerate problems--you are being selective to prove a point. You are also implying that the psx had no framerate problems with its first generation of games, this is absolutely false--get over it and use some sense. I could list dozens of games that look tremendously better than first gen games (for psx, snes, genesis), but that wouldn\'t prove anything really. Just use common sense, this point isn\'t something that can be argued. It should be a given that devs learn small tricks to get more out of a system then they initially could.
People who think that the PS2 will eventually produce graphics like the GC or xbox once devs "learn" the system are kidding themselves. All systems will evolve graphically, it\'s just a matter of specs.
Maxxed out, the PS2 is an inferior machine in terms of graphics, and that is the sad truth.
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Originally posted by Metal_Gear_Ray
Im looking foward playing Rogue leader, Sc2 and The RE remakes.
you mean RE remake. part 1 is the only one theyre remaking..the rest are just ports in high rez....bummer.
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FF8 and FF9 had pretty big improvements from FF7, and the framerate was doubled. :D(FF7 was 15fps, and FF8 & 9 were at 30. Did you notice the difference? I sure did. :))
Anyways, these 1st gen Xbox games aren\'t really pushing its hardware at all... Er, save HALO. Most of them were just rushed and ported from 2nd phase dev. kits to the final hardware with minor adjustments like framerate issues to make the games playable. I\'m expecting a lot out of the 2nd gen software. ^_^;
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Yeah, anyone can pick out games that looked better but had framerate problems--you are being selective to prove a point. You are also implying that the psx had no framerate problems with its first generation of games, this is absolutely false--get over it and use some sense. I could list dozens of games that look tremendously better than first gen games (for psx, snes, genesis), but that wouldn\'t prove anything really. Just use common sense, this point isn\'t something that can be argued. It should be a given that devs learn small tricks to get more out of a system then they initially could.
LOL, now you\'re bull****ing me right?
I neversaid or even implied that PSX had \'no\' framerate problems at the beginning and if you look for the other thread, you will even see that I have already tryed to prove that there are graphical enhancements made during a consoles life span. Plain fact. I also didn\'t say that PSX had framerate problems at the end, what I ment was that some scaled down framerates and resolution just to get some better graphics on screen. Plain fact. I even named you a few examples and could add more if I wanted to.
What I don\'t like about your earlier post though, is that you seem to think that just because PSX was an easy platform which saw such a big leap in graphics, means we will see an equal leap on the Xbox as well. This can be true, but I question this very much.
There\'s a big difference between a console architecture and that of a PC. You seem to imply that just because PSX saw a big leap in graphics (which was an easy platform), we will see a more or less equal leap in Xbox\'s graphics. This is simply not true, since both architectures are so different. And mind you, developing a PC game or on a architecture very similar to that of a PC is still much easier than on a console.
People who think that the PS2 will eventually produce graphics like the GC or xbox once devs "learn" the system are kidding themselves. All systems will evolve graphically, it\'s just a matter of specs.
Maxxed out, the PS2 is an inferior machine in terms of graphics, and that is the sad truth.
Give me any good reason why I should believe you? Are you a developer? Have you programmed on the PS2 yourself? Heck, from what I can tell, you don\'t even understand the own stuff you post, so why should anyone in here take a statement like that serious? It\'s good for a laugh though.
Yes, Xbox is a strong and powerful system (no one ever stated otherwise). Developers have stated this and this has already been proven by recent releases: PS2 will see a big leap in graphics (logical, more so than Xbox). You compare first gen games to second gen games and you already see a huge difference there. And it will go further, trust me.
Oh by the way, explain to me, why Electronic Arts states that the PS2 has a higher pixelfillrate than the Xbox? What happened to those numbers Microsoft is publishing? Dream on, buddy. I am not saying that PS2 is as strong as Xbox just yet, but it\'s a lot more powerful than you think it is and it will prove with time.
Don\'t forget, Xbox uses technology that is over 20 years old and as Intel states themselves, is at the end of its life span. This might not be necessarely bad, since this makes the Xbox (also thanks to DirectX) very, no sorry, VERY easy to develop for. Don\'t forget that.
Think what you want, but stop denying the fact that PS2 is a lot more powerful than you want it to be.
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Lol anyone who thinks the Xbox lineup is godly... needs to look twice... only game that amazes me even a little is DOA3 and DOA games get boring after 9 days.
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that is true with all fighting games, though. Only with more people are they lasting and fun.
To tell you the truth, though, I havent seen this many great games within 1 year of a console launch, ever. Even more so than DC\'s godly first year.
DOA
Halo
Panzer Dragoon
Sega GT
GUNVALKYRIE
Medal of Honor
Project Gotham
Project Ego
Sega GT online
Unreal Championship
Max Payne
JSR:F
Maximum Chase
Double S.T.E.A.L.
Shin Megami Tensei Online
Tony Hawk
Shenmue II
and so on and so forth.
Even if some of these games are coming to PS2, which most aren\'t, they are coming out well after the first year of PS2, which was today, if I remember correctly.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Yeah, anyone can pick out games that looked better but had framerate problems--you are being selective to prove a point. You are also implying that the psx had no framerate problems with its first generation of games, this is absolutely false--get over it and use some sense. I could list dozens of games that look tremendously better than first gen games (for psx, snes, genesis), but that wouldn\'t prove anything really. Just use common sense, this point isn\'t something that can be argued. It should be a given that devs learn small tricks to get more out of a system then they initially could.
Watchdog, you are the one being selective to prove a point. You list PSX SNES and Genesis as proof of how much all consoles graphics get better with time but leave out N64 and DC. Would that be because both of those later consoles showed very little improvement from their best looking launch titles? To me the DC is overwhelming proof of just how thoroughly understood programing games under the old system of architecture has now become, learning "small tricks to get more out of a [old] system" is nothing compared to discovering different ways of using an entirely new architecture.
Originally posted by Watchdog
Maxxed out, the PS2 is an inferior machine in terms of graphics, and that is the sad truth.
Two big problems with that statement.
1) No one yet knows what the PS2 "Maxxed out" will look like
2) Look up the word "inferior" and you might just realize how fanboy/trollish your use of it here sounds. Or not. THAT is the sad truth
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well said
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Heretic: (https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flondon.leanback.se%2F1%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fyelclap.gif&hash=a6fc87334bb8f3e8f1d3ddd15015f73de89c6c5c)
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Originally posted by Watchdog
People who think that the PS2 will eventually produce graphics like the GC or xbox once devs "learn" the system are kidding themselves. All systems will evolve graphically, it\'s just a matter of specs.
Maxxed out, the PS2 is an inferior machine in terms of graphics, and that is the sad truth.
The PS2 already compares to the GC, and the Xbox holds only a fraction better Graphics at this point.
and the PS2 is FAR from maxed out, while both GC and XBox are onna get the maority of their power out of their systems in the 1st 2 generation . The PS2 will still be evolving in generation 4
Wanna bet
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I wouldn\'t wanna bet against you there D
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Originally posted by Metal_Gear_Ray
Gamecube will be great though, Im looking foward playing Rogue leader, Sc2 and The RE remakes. Its just not enough for many (including myself) to buy one
If those are the only games for the GC that interest you, you haven\'t played Super Smash Bros. Don\'t give me that crap about it looking kiddy. If you (not Metal_Gear_Ray in particular) have friends buy SSB.
BTW, if you don\'t like the, in YOUR opinion, "kiddy" games, then you should definitely check out the Nintendo second and third party "mature" games. I think Nintendo is going with the quality vs. quantitu approach to mature games. ;) :D
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but new DC games do look better than first gen games.Remember, DC only has had TWO gens.
but DOA2 looks better than Soul Calibur.
Shenmue looks better than Time Stalkers.
Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2 looks better than Sega GT.
so on and so forth.
PS2 is much like Saturn. Many people may think it is inferior looking at specs (which frankly don\'t matter that much) but then later proved to be as good as opposing, "more powerful" systems. but looking at the Shenmue for Saturn, it shows that in 1998 Saturn was putting out graphics that PSX was.
PS2 will contend, I promise you. It all depends on the time the devs take.
Eric Jacob
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lets jsut hope ps2 du nend up like saturn
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Why not?
Anybody that is in to 2d games will agree that Saturn is one of the greatest systems ever.
I hold it to that regard, if PS2 can match that, possibly by having more games like GTA3 (my fav. PS2 game) then it could.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
I hold it to that regard, if PS2 can match that, possibly by having more games like GTA3 (my fav. PS2 game) then it could.
Eric Jacob
Is GTA3 that good, I haven\'t played it yet
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gta3 OWNSSSSSSSSSSSS I just got it today!
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The xbox line up IS godly.
Halo, DOA3, munch, project gotham, amped, cel damage, fuzion frenzy, madden.
As for the "lets just hope ps2 doesnt end up like saturn" statement...There is no way in hell that will happen, unless sony gets like blown up or something.
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I am a sony fanboy and even I will admit the ps2 is outclassed graphically. I does uses technology that is a year older after all. When doa2 was ported from the dc to ps2 the framerate doubled, once they tweaked it. It went from 30-60, then once they ported the ps2 version to the xbox (without any optimizing at all) it went up to 120fps frames per second. In an egm article using a half power dev kit, they took a game comparable to Ecco and put it on the xbox it ran at over 300fps, and on final dev i believe it ran near 1000fps. The xbox is way more powerful, just look at Moto GP. Or SSX tricky, ea sports said that the polygon counts and particles had to be toned down for the ps2 version which was the base version by the way. The NV2A is the most powerful chip in the world right now, not the ee and its vector units.
Ps. even first gen xbox games can\'t be done on the ps2 due to bump mapping, real time reflections, vertex shaders, etc.
PSS. how do i post pics?
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chrono86: I find it hard to belive your a PS2 fanboy..
:cool:
Oh to post pics.. Just press the IMG button and paste the address (address to the picture) in the window that pops-up.
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I am a sony fanboy and even I will admit the ps2 is outclassed graphically. I does uses technology that is a year older after all. When doa2 was ported from the dc to ps2 the framerate doubled, once they tweaked it. It went from 30-60, then once they ported the ps2 version to the xbox (without any optimizing at all) it went up to 120fps frames per second.
I am sorry (and I know I shouldn\'t reply to posts like these), but this one tops it all. Do you honestly think that the framerate numbers you read about DoA2 really proves that X-Box is more powerful?? Pleeease!!
In an egm article using a half power dev kit, they took a game comparable to Ecco and put it on the xbox it ran at over 300fps, and on final dev i believe it ran near 1000fps.
What does that tell us? comparable to Ecco? How comparable to Ecco? This proves damn nothing kid.
The xbox is way more powerful, just look at Moto GP. Or SSX tricky, ea sports said that the polygon counts and particles had to be toned down for the ps2 version which was the base version by the way.
Have any articles to back that up, son?
The NV2A is the most powerful chip in the world right now, not the ee and its vector units.
Kind a sad actually, that such an advanced chip is handicaped by such a slow CPU. I find it laughable though, that anyone would even try to compare a CPU to a GPU. Incase you haven\'t known this, both have different tasks, and in the case of PS2 and X-Box, the differences go much deaper. BTW: X-Box uses old and "dying" technology. Go figure.