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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: kirath on October 25, 2001, 05:52:54 AM
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Okay questions, comments, etc.
Here is the story. A good friend of mine died this week. A friend that I hold dear and I am going to miss for a long time. A very big part of my family and my household.
His name was Tango and he has been my dog for about 8 years. I don\'t know why have been so affected by this, Im 23 years old I supposed to be older now. Its not that I don\'t except him being gone and happy now, its just hard comming home and not seeing him on the porch, or walking in the house expecting to see him and realizing he is gone, waking up in the morning just about to say hi to him outside my door and again realizing he is gone.
But my question here is who here beleives that dogs have souls like humans? The are alive like us, live like us, so is their engergy and soul made up just like us?
I believe I will catch up with him again someday. Actaully I think I really believe that he will be reincarnated as something or someone else. He was truely a great dog. I know he was happy when he was with me and I know he is happy now.
When we layed him down to rest I was there with him.. I could tell he got scared right before it happend, he started shaking but I consoled him and he was fine.
Again
Who here beleives that dogs have souls like humans? The are alive like us, live like us, so is their engergy and soul made up just like us?
Im just curious to see what other people have to say.
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I fear this thread will quickly turn into a "Do humans really have souls" thread, Religion vs. Science, AlteredBeast vs. Bossieman.
But yes, I thinks they do. Animals have emotions, they feel pain, fear, joy, sadness, so they have souls.
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My own personal OPINION (;)) is that dogs does not have a soul; just as humans don\'t.
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SEE??
Samwise\'s only purpose in life is to verify whatever I say.
*rubs sammy\'s breasts as thanks*:bounce:
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I have no soul, but my dog does.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
I have no soul, but my dog does.
:laughing:
Now that\'s scary!
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I have no soul, but both of my feet do.
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Geez, you guys are acting so childish!
*points at Weltall\'s 1 star and laughs*
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I really expected more out of you guys... :rolleyes:
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im with sammy on this one, i dont believe in the whole i dea of souls.
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Why would we have souls!?
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Originally posted by fastson
Why would we have souls!?
Thats like saying why are we alive...
Why are you alive, answer me that first!
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Originally posted by kirath
Why are you alive, answer me that first!
To reproduce your species - just like the animals. If we humans didn\'t have such a big brain life would be much easier to cope with. Eat, sleep and have sex (well, not too far from what some people are doing :)).
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Originally posted by Samwise
To reproduce your species - just like the animals. If we humans didn\'t have such a big brain life would be much easier to cope with. Eat, sleep and have sex (well, not too far from what some people are doing :)).
Come on Samwise, I mean beyond reproducing. Why are you concious of yourself (asuming that you are of course) or is your life meaningless..??
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Oh, you mean like the brain? I thought you meant \'the meaning of life\' etc. You\'re concious of yourself due to electrons flying around in your head. :)
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Because a nice man named god one day go a great idea..
- Hey lets make a human..
Thats why ;)
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so god is a man huh - well thats not what the movie dogma said
they said jesus was black and god was a chick - uh huh so which way is it
so many religions - too much to disbelieve
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I think all living things have souls. But that\'s my opinion. :)
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I learned in CCD a few years back that animals don\'t have souls. Does that mean we don\'t have souls? We are animals. Animals don\'t have souls they say. Then we have no souls. My personal belief is that God gives all animals souls and we all can meet up with our animal friends. That is my personal belief.
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Doggs don\'t have souls. Dogg are not important. They are only here to be mans servants. There is no such thing as doggy heaven. They are that nothing but a lowley creature.
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I believe all life is a form of energy. When we or our Dog dies that enrgy moves on which feeds the theory of re-incarnation
this energy is what we perceive as a SOul or what religion labels it
Kirath
If you remember I lost my Dog a few months ago, and I still miss her. So I know where your coming form, and I\'m sorry to hear that. My dog would be at the door when I got home every single night.
I got a new puppy and he\'s great he has his own cool personality and we are fast becoming Pals
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Originally posted by ddaryl
I believe all life is a form of energy. When we or our Dog dies that enrgy moves on which feeds the theory of re-incarnation
this energy is what we perceive as a SOul or what religion labels it
Kirath
If you remember I lost my Dog a few months ago, and I still miss her. So I know where your coming form, and I\'m sorry to hear that. My dog would be at the door when I got home every single night.
I got a new puppy and he\'s great he has his own cool personality and we are fast becoming Pals
Why would a dog need a soul? He cannot be saved or born again. God did not die to save a dog. So he has no reason to have a soul. He won\'t be in heaven. He won\'t rain with god. He nothing but mans servant and that is all. Animals are here to serve humans and that is all. They should not have rights. I am against animal rights. When you give a animal rights your putting him on the sam pedalstole as a human when he is nothing but an animal.
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Yes. Dogs have souls. They will be in heaven just like they are on earth. This is said in the Bible (I think, I\'m looking for where it\'s located right now). I am not sure if our dogs will be in heaven (i.e. I don\'t know if dogs will be resurrected), but there will be dogs in heaven.
I think the real question is, will animals be in all three kingdoms (Celestial, Terestrial, Telestial), or will they only be in the Celestial kingdom? (Altered, I\'m looking in your direction. Do you know the answer to this?)
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Why would a dog need a soul? He cannot be saved or born again. God did not die to save a dog. So he has no reason to have a soul. He won\'t be in heaven. He won\'t rain with god. He nothing but mans servant and that is all. Animals are here to serve humans and that is all. They should not have rights. I am against animal rights. When you give a animal rights your putting him on the sam pedalstole as a human when he is nothing but an animal.
There\'s no such thing as God, and Animals are not here to serve anyone. They are just lower on the food chain
Dogs are just animals that are Domesticated so they are capable of sharing our homes and being our friends.
and I never said Dogs or Humans have a Soul. There\'s an energy that is being misinterpreted by those who actually think there is a God as a Soul
and to be honest my Dog is in higher regard to me then 99.9% of all Humans.
and besodes that Disney already said all good dogs goto Heave :P
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Yuck QuDDus, I\'m sorry to say but your opinion disgusts me. We\'re just animals like any other creature on this earth. Dogs and other animals aren\'t here to serve us. We just thought we could own it all and take control of nature. The human race is nothing to be proud of IMO.
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It\'s simple.. if it\'s alive it has a soul. I beleave this reason because we\'re all different.. Our souls is what makes us whom we are.
They say people are BORN evil or good.. That\'s why people you think that are normal. Can be the most evil pricks you\'ve ever seen.
But hey, who knows.
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Nobody knows, Soulgrind, we can only suspect - believe - think. And that is what scares me about death. Everyone faces it - actually, someone IS facing it right now somewhere around earth - nobody can avoid it, and it is something that you will only find out when you meet it.
I believe Dogs have souls - as they have feelings. They think, therefore they are. call me simple and stupid, but I can\'t think we are here just to reproduce.
I\'m not sure whether I believe in one God, or heaven and hell - it just isn\'t that black and white, if anything exists. But I believe there is another form of life beyond death. Perhaps we will be reborn - who knows? - but I just can\'t think we are nothing in nothingness forever.
Kirath, I have experienced the same. Our lovely dog, a chihuahua, died about year and a half ago, and as I have already passed the sorrow, I still think about him many times - and miss him too sometimes. And I WANT to believe that I will meet him again - whether I will, I don\'t know.
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Originally posted by ddaryl
and to be honest my Dog is in higher regard to me then 99.9% of all Humans.
Well said, I was actually thinking the same thing. And I agree with you on the energy as well. Thats what I truely beleive. I said soul because its much easier for most people to understand. People don\'t put energy and soul together that well. But I beleive we are all made up of energy postive or negative. The more positive energy your made of when you die the much happier your gonna be.. Hence all the religous talks of morality, and being good to each other!
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Originally posted by Samwise
Yuck QuDDus, I\'m sorry to say but your opinion disgusts me. We\'re just animals like any other creature on this earth. Dogs and other animals aren\'t here to serve us. We just thought we could own it all and take control of nature. The human race is nothing to be proud of IMO.
First of all I am no animal. I am a human being I was created in the likeness of god. Dogs and all these creatures where put here bye god to do nothing but serve us. They are not important. They don\'t need rites. They don\'t need saving. They are only here to benift humans and if they can\'t do that then they are not needed.
aND ddarly that is very sad you feel there is no god, but you believe dogs have souls. How Ironic. It is a shame that you would value some worthless filthy creature over a human beings life. That is sad and if I where I would have kept my mouth shut on that one. No animal should ever be valued over a human beings life.
Just because it is alive does not mean it has a soul. Man was given a soul bye god so that we could ran with him forever because god loves us. There is no reason for god to give a soul to a dogg or anyother creature because they are not called bye him or chosen bye him. They are just sent to serve us.
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man im sorry but i just totally disagree with EVERYTHING you said.
pretty selfish way ti live dont you think, everything here is made just for us? must make things real easy for you.
heres my thing, if there IS a god. what makes you think that our minds can even comprehend what this "god" is?
he might love dogs for all you know, maybe he created dogs first and then made us to serve dogs and everything got screwy through the years?
oh right.... i forgot about the bible
:rolleyes:
ps. maybe its a SHE! and SHE loves dogs!
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Originally posted by Luke
man im sorry but i just totally disagree with EVERYTHING you said.
pretty selfish way ti live dont you think, everything here is made just for us? must make things real easy for you.
heres my thing, if there IS a god. what makes you think that our minds can even comprehend what this "god" is?
he might love dogs for all you know, maybe he created dogs first and then made us to serve dogs and everything got screwy through the years?
oh right.... i forgot about the bible
:rolleyes:
ps. maybe its a SHE! and SHE loves dogs!
Luke, your pretty much right, but me, being a cathloic and all, I somewhat believe in god, somewhat, just not alot. If he is really there, or she for that matter, we will never know, not even past death. I never knew what to believe, but now i see it as religion is just a hoax. Although, i go to church and everything.
Edit:Quddus, you sound as if your trying to force the members of the forum to believe what you are saying. Bad idea, each person has thier own opipion, and is entitled to believe in whatever they want.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
First of all I am no animal.
Oh yes you are. We are Homo Sapiens Sapiens. An ANIMAL of this earth. All things in the kindom animalia (sp) are ANIMALS or else we will be in a kingdom of our own. No offense, but I totally think that your posts are dumb. They are not backed up by any information. Animals aren\'t on this earth to serve man. Animals are here to serve a purpose and to live thier lives. Back when Homo Sapiens Sapiens lived with Homo Sapiens Neandertalis, they were like us. They were animals too. Did they serve us? No. It is believed that we kicked their @$$ in fighting. My point is that animals aren\'t here to serve humans. We are animals. If you like it or not, we are animals, just like dogs, cats, chimps, monkeys; we are like them. The only difference is that we have a more advanced body and brain. In fact, chimps are extremely related to us but I won\'t get into that. Just check out a chimp book. But to say a little about it, they share most of our genes. They can think just like us. They almost are us. They evolved with us when man was evolving with apes, chimps and stuff.
Koko the gorilla has the intelligence of a human. She can\'t speek but can read, write and other things man can do. The only thing she can\'t do is speak but she makes up for it with sign language.
QuDDus, your wrong about most of your posts. I\'m sorry, but your wrong. Argue with me all you want.
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Originally posted by Titan
Oh yes you are. We are Homo Sapiens Sapiens. An ANIMAL of this earth. All things in the kindom animalia (sp) are ANIMALS or else we will be in a kingdom of our own. No offense, but I totally think that your posts are dumb. They are not backed up by any information. Animals aren\'t on this earth to serve man. Animals are here to serve a purpose and to live thier lives. Back when Homo Sapiens Sapiens lived with Homo Sapiens Neandertalis, they were like us. They were animals too. Did they serve us? No. It is believed that we kicked their @$$ in fighting. My point is that animals aren\'t here to serve humans. We are animals. If you like it or not, we are animals, just like dogs, cats, chimps, monkeys; we are like them. The only difference is that we have a more advanced body and brain. In fact, chimps are extremely related to us but I won\'t get into that. Just check out a chimp book. But to say a little about it, they share most of our genes. They can think just like us. They almost are us. They evolved with us when man was evolving with apes, chimps and stuff.
Koko the gorilla has the intelligence of a human. She can\'t speek but can read, write and other things man can do. The only thing she can\'t do is speak but she makes up for it with sign language.
QuDDus, your wrong about most of your posts. I\'m sorry, but your wrong. Argue with me all you want.
I won\'t argue you with you because that is just your wrong opinion. And your entiled to be wrong. That is your given rite to be 100% wrong. You can love your dogs, cats, and cows. But as far as I go I believe in god the kjv BIBLE and god created these animals to serve humans.
A dog will never be equal to a man. No animal is equal to any human. This is are earth. It was created for us. Not for dogs. It sad that ppl would care more about a filty dog than they would a real human being.
And I am not a animal. I am not beastly. And I don\'t live in the wild nore do I lick myself clean. Nobody has to walk me. I don\'t live in cages and I am not slaughtered for your survival. Nobody taimes me and forces to obey there command.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
I won\'t argue you with you because that is just your wrong opinion.
your a jackass dude
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Originally posted by Luke
your a jackass dude
WORD. QuDDus, your opinion isn\'t the "right" opinion. It is just another opinion. There is no such thing as a right opinion.
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Geez QuDDus, are you like a brainwashed extreme fundamentalist or something? I\'ll take my "wrong" opinion over yours anyday.
There really should be a :puke: smiley here. It sure would come in handy in this case.
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Originally posted by Samwise
Geez QuDDus, are you like a brainwashed extreme fundamentalist or something? I\'ll take my "wrong" opinion over yours anyday.
There really should be a :puke: smiley here. It sure would come in handy in this case.
No I just care more about human life than I do for any animals life. And this is not animal planet and they don\'t diserve to be treated like they are equal to us. I just don\'t see how ppl can admit to caring more about a filthy animal than a living breathing human.
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I just don\'t see how ppl can admit to caring more about a filthy animal than a living breathing human.
A living breathing human right? That isn\'t filthy? A superior human being. One that has the ability to hijack a plane and crash it into a building killing thousands of innocent people while killing himself. That\'s the kind of being you think is superior? Just because we have a more advanced brain and don\'t live in the jungle? Get over it man.
Give me a quote from your bible where it says we have souls and where it says that god made dogs to serve us. Don\'t tell me what you think, quote it.
/ dm /
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No I just care more about human life than I do for any animals life. And this is not animal planet and they don\'t diserve to be treated like they are equal to us. I just don\'t see how ppl can admit to caring more about a filthy animal than a living breathing human.
I never said that I cared more about a dog or whatever, than a human being. I don\'t. But I think animals should be treated well anyway - just because we have bigger brains doesn\'t mean we have the right to mistreat them at our will.
You use the word \'filty animals\' a lot. Why not just \'animals\'? Is the filthy part really that necessary?
And I don\'t see how you cannot believe we\'re \'just\' animals. Sophisticated animals - yes - but still animals. Why is that a bad thing? It\'s just a label of all living things. What makes us so different?
You say you don\'t live in a cage - no you live in a house that was built because humans have bigger brains and a body that can make building of houses possible. But what else is different? Nothing.
We don\'t have fur - we have clothes.
We don\'t hunt for food - we buy it from someone who has slaugthered cows etc.
And the human genome differs with only a few percent to a chimpanzee\'s. Gee, we\'re sooooo different huh. :rolleyes:
Summa summarum: We\'re just like the rest of the animals. We\'re an \'deluxe-animal\' but that doesn\'t change anything. An ugly shovel is still a shovel compared to a nice shiny one.
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QuDDus, you are an animal, like it or not. The only reason we don\'t live in cages is A) some other human created it, and B) there is not another advanced species to create one. If you eat, drink, sleep and reproduce, your an animal. We are the most advanced species on this earth because we are the newest species on this earth. Oh, and my other post wasn\'t my opinion, it was all fact. Us and chimps do share most of the same genes. Homo Sapiens Neandertalis did live and they were humans but less developed. That\'s why they died out. Like it or not, we are humans and animals weren\'t put on this earth to serve humans. Name one species that "serves" humans. I don\'t see them bringing us food on a platter. I see them living their lives and being this highly advanced animal (us) a companion. Parakeets, cats, dogs, and other pets are our companions, not our servants.
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IMO,
I got a dog at home, but i don\'t think it has a soul;
an orangutan? maybe ... :eek:
Who discovered the "soul" anyway? right, maybe some doped up person wrote it somewhere... :laughing:
If we believe we got a soul, then a dog has a soul, since "GOD" created the dog too.
the only thing for certain we can say, dying is "wrong", someday people will wake up, and smell the coffee, and embrace extending their life by scientific means.
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I think that the PS2 will win this generation. :thepimp:
I´m very tired of this kind of topics, I can´t change anyones belives or anything. Wait and see people. Soul?? Please!! The day we clone a human this topic dies, or are all religios people going to say stuff like: this doesnt prove anything!! Just because we can clone it doesnt mean that God doesnt exist!We know that we said that God creates the soul but OK it was wrong Mankind can too, just like we said the earth was flat and not round!!
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Originally posted by datamage
A living breathing human right? That isn\'t filthy? A superior human being. One that has the ability to hijack a plane and crash it into a building killing thousands of innocent people while killing himself. That\'s the kind of being you think is superior? Just because we have a more advanced brain and don\'t live in the jungle? Get over it man.
Give me a quote from your bible where it says we have souls and where it says that god made dogs to serve us. Don\'t tell me what you think, quote it.
/ dm /
If you read genesis you read the part where god says he has given man dominan over the earth and the things of the earth. And you will also see a part where god creates the animals and adam begins to name them.
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Ok QuDDus, God did give us dominian over the animals. But if we abuse those privilages, we will be punished. If we go out and kill animals for fun and not for needed-food, we will be punished. If we treat our pets like crap, yep, you guessed it, we will be punished. God loves all of us, and he loves all the animals on the earth. Animals are not put here for us to just push around and/or kill. They were put here to help us in times of need, with comfort, or food.
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We breathe.
We digest.
We socialize.
We are made up of cells with centrioles, nuclei; lacking chloroplasts and cell walls.
We have brains.
We have lungs.
We have feet, we have hands.
We have hearts.
We follow basic animal instincts, such as the urge to reproduce, nurture our young (like many animals anyhow).
How are we not animals?
And why do you find it insulting to believe we are? The only difference is, we have a different physical makeup, and think on what we consider to be a higher level. Or is it even a higher level?
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Originally posted by IronFist
Ok QuDDus, God did give us dominian over the animals. But if we abuse those privilages, we will be punished. If we go out and kill animals for fun and not for needed-food, we will be punished. If we treat our pets like crap, yep, you guessed it, we will be punished. God loves all of us, and he loves all the animals on the earth. Animals are not put here for us to just push around and/or kill. They were put here to help us in times of need, with comfort, or food.
You won\'t be punish for treating your pet like crap. I don\'t know how you have managed to think that up. YOu will get the same punish for treating your pet like crap as you would get for treating your car like crap.
Which is nothing. People matter not animals. This is our world not theres.
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If you read genesis you read the part where god says he has given man dominan over the earth and the things of the earth. And you will also see a part where god creates the animals and adam begins to name them.
Sorry, if I wanted to read fiction, I\'ll pick up an Anne Rice novel.
Regardless, quote where it says that we have a soul. Where it specifically states that. People assume too much junk, just because their church tells them.
/ dm /
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Originally posted by datamage
Sorry, if I wanted to read fiction, I\'ll pick up an Anne Rice novel.
Regardless, quote where it says that we have a soul. Where it specifically states that. People assume too much junk, just because their church tells them.
/ dm /
Why do you need a quote if you don\'t believe? Why do you care if you don\'t believe in god? So I guess you have no say so in this matter. Since it doesn\'t concern you.
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oops, double post. Read the next page. :)
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Originally posted by QuDDus
You won\'t be punish for treating your pet like crap. I don\'t know how you have managed to think that up. YOu will get the same punish for treating your pet like crap as you would get for treating your car like crap.
Which is nothing. People matter not animals. This is our world not theres.
I\'m sorry you feel that way. :(
BTW QuDDus, what religion are you in? I\'m not asking this so I can judge the people in your religion. I\'m asking this so I can usderstand why your beliefs are the way they are.
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I go to church once a week. I am a professing Christian but I don\'t consider myself ultra-conservative or ultra-liberal one way or the other.
My take is that humans have souls, animals do not. Humans are not animals because we are made in God\'s likeness. Jesus died for the sins of humans, not for animals.
Just because we are humans and are the highest lifeforms on this planet (yesh it\'s true) does not give us the right to treat animals any way we want. The same goes for everything else on this earth. We are supposed to treat it the way God wants. He created the earth and saw that is was good and wanted us to keep it that way.
But I am not God so keep in mind I don\'t know everything. :) You may very well meet your pet again if you get to heaven. I hope you guys do, Kirath & ddaryl.
There, an opinion of an educated and semi-conservative Christian. So flame on!
datamage- I\'m no Bible scholar so I had to do some research to find where it says that we have a soul in the good book. It was tougher than i thought finding a verse but here is one-
Give ear and come to me;
hear me, that your soul may live.
I will make an everlasting covenant with you,
my faithful love promised to David.
-Isaiah 55:3 KJV
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Originally posted by THX
I go to church once a week. I am a professing Christian but I don\'t consider myself ultra-conservative or ultra-liberal one way or the other.
My take is that humans have souls, animals do not. Humans are not animals because we are made in God\'s likeness. Jesus died for the sins of humans, not for animals.
Just because we are humans and are the highest lifeforms on this planet (yesh it\'s true) does not give us the right to treat animals any way we want. The same goes for everything else on this earth. We are supposed to treat it the way God wants. He created the earth and saw that is was good and wanted us to keep it that way.
But I am not God so keep in mind I don\'t know everything. :) You may very well meet your pet again if you get to heaven. I hope you guys do, Kirath & ddaryl.
There, an opinion of an educated and semi-conservative Christian. So flame on!
datamage- I\'m no Bible scholar so I had to do some research to find where it says that we have a soul in the good book. It was tougher than i thought finding a verse but here is one-
-Isaiah 55:3 KJV
AMEN BROTHER. amen:thepimp:
And Ironfist I am a christian. i Believe in god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit and that jesus died for our sins. Cogic faith.
And I am not saying treat animals like crap. Don\'t misunderstand me because I am not saying that. I think you should at leat try to treat animals good. But If you do some how take your frustrations out on your dog, cat , or whatever. Don\'t go to pieces over it because it is not like you did something wrong too a human it\'s just an animal.
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Must.....not......write.....opinion.......
Instead, I will address this statement:
I don\'t know why have been so affected by this, Im 23 years old I supposed to be older now.
Dude, there is NO shame in feeling loss and sadness over the loss of a friend, no matter what it is. Hell, if you lost a STUFFED pet to say, an apartment fire, you are entitled to you own little process. The important part is to not get caught up in something you can\'t change, and to try and remember all the GOOD things you did with yer best bud!
I feel ya, man. I don\'t know how I will react when my dog now dies, and she is getting pretty old.
Sorry for yer loss.
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See, what really inspired me to get into this was the whole "Dirty animals" concept. Why is it so bad to be an animal; why does this thought make you flinch? An example of an animal that is most certainly not dirty; a house cat. It keeps itself clean, it is a small animal that rarely harms anything, it even relieves itself in a set location. In essence, it\'s no less clean than a human being, or at least considering its level of thought.
My take is that humans have souls, animals do not. Humans are not animals because we are made in God\'s likeness. Jesus died for the sins of humans, not for animals.
Obviously, God\'s creativity was stunted that day, if he did not intend for animals he created to not share many of his attributes. They have extraordinarily similar bodily systems; blood flows in the same manner, they breathe through the nostrils and mouth; they have the same organs; their cells have the same organelles; and so on. Perhaps, just perhaps, animals were partially created in God\'s image? Certain parts of this God must\'ve been included in them, correct?
The similarity between humans and most monkeys is remarkable, in fact. Almost hairier, shorter human beings, or in some cases, hairier and larger human beings. If humans were indeed created in the image of God, then wouldn\'t these animals with similar bodily makeups and similar appearances be at least partially made in the image of God as well?
Or are you talking outside of the physical realm, rendering this whole faction of my reply to this thread pointless?
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I am an acting Catholic. But I do find some of the bible questionable. I to tell the truth don\'t really believe in the Adam and Eve story. How could they be the first humans if we evolved from common ancestors as monkeys, chimps and gorillas? It took millions of years to evolve to what we are today not days. I do believe that God created the heaven, Earth and the universe. I believe that he is the one responsible for evolution for organisms to evolve to what they are today. You have different beliefs and I respect that. But I do disagree with you that it is ok to take your frustration out on your pets. That is cruelty to animals. It is a law and you could get fined and imprisoned for hitting your animals. It is cruel and unjust and shouldn\'t be tolerated. I\'m not an animal rights activist but I do think that animals should be treated with respect.
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Originally posted by Titan
I am an acting Catholic. But I do find some of the bible questionable. I to tell the truth don\'t really believe in the Adam and Eve story. How could they be the first humans if we evolved from common ancestors as monkeys, chimps and gorillas? It took millions of years to evolve to what we are today not days. I do believe that God created the heaven, Earth and the universe. I believe that he is the one responsible for evolution for organisms to evolve to what they are today. You have different beliefs and I respect that.
Aye.
One belief that makes sense to me is the belief that God created the universe, or essentially, the huge ball of matter that became the universe, and things took off from there. It explains the origin of the universe, with little to no conflicting with science discoveries made over the past few thousand years.
Although, at the same time, that\'s just one of any massive number of possibilities for how the universe began. But at least that particular belief doesn\'t disregard much in the way of scientific discoveries.
I am agnostic, just trying to find the most sensible belief system. So if I seem critical of something some of you say, that is exactly why: it doesn\'t make sense to me. In discussing this with you people, it helps to further mold my own beliefs.
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I don\'t know if I should be mad or laughing my ass off at QuDDus\'s fanatical ranting, don\'t you people just love it when Christians are so blatent in their hipocracy that they go against the teachings of their religion just to \'defend\' it? Now I don\'t know about you but when they tried to raise me as a Christian they told me man was here to protect the Earth and everything on it, including animals.
You won\'t be punish for treating your pet like crap. I don\'t know how you have managed to think that up. YOu will get the same punish for treating your pet like crap as you would get for treating your car like crap.
I don\'t know who the hell you think you are but the poster of this topic asked a simple question, if a dear friend will be waiting in the end. Now I don\'t care if you don\'t believe in it or not, but you are doing the equivalent of me running past a church with a flag that say\'s "F*ck Christianity". I am a proud Atheist but I don\'t go around acting like a total jackass for hell\'s sake! Are you so blinded by your faith that you disregard everybody elsed feelings and beliefe\'s as crap before you even look at them!? I can only hope that people like you will open your eyes and see that it is you who spreads hate like a disease in this world, you who if given the power would make Hitler look like a common thug.
What will you do now, pray for me? You go right on ahead and I will do the thinking for both of us.
(back to topic)
I am truely sorry that your pet has died. I know from experience that it is a hard time for you to go through and that he/she will never be replaced. The best thing to do is to just go on with your life and try to remain happy in the following weeks.
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Originally posted by Lord of Darkness
I don\'t know if I should be mad or laughing my ass off at QuDDus\'s fanatical ranting, don\'t you people just love it when Christians are so blatent in their hipocracy that they go against the teachings of their religion just to \'defend\' it? Now I don\'t know about you but when they tried to raise me as a Christian they told me man was here to protect the Earth and everything on it, including animals.
I don\'t know who the hell you think you are but the poster of this topic asked a simple question, if a dear friend will be waiting in the end. Now I don\'t care if you don\'t believe in it or not, but you are doing the equivalent of me running past a church with a flag that say\'s "F*ck Christianity". I am a proud Atheist but I don\'t go around acting like a total jackass for hell\'s sake! Are you so blinded by your faith that you disregard everybody elsed feelings and beliefe\'s as crap before you even look at them!? I can only hope that people like you will open your eyes and see that it is you who spreads hate like a disease in this world, you who if given the power would make Hitler look like a common thug.
What will you do now, pray for me? You go right on ahead and I will do the thinking for both of us.
(back to topic)
I am truely sorry that your pet has died. I know from experience that it is a hard time for you to go through and that he/she will never be replaced. The best thing to do is to just go on with your life and try to remain happy in the following weeks.
Your absolutely right. You are full of Bull:D
Originally posted by Titan
I am an acting Catholic. But I do find some of the bible questionable. I to tell the truth don\'t really believe in the Adam and Eve story. How could they be the first humans if we evolved from common ancestors as monkeys, chimps and gorillas? It took millions of years to evolve to what we are today not days. I do believe that God created the heaven, Earth and the universe. I believe that he is the one responsible for evolution for organisms to evolve to what they are today. You have different beliefs and I respect that. But I do disagree with you that it is ok to take your frustration out on your pets. That is cruelty to animals. It is a law and you could get fined and imprisoned for hitting your animals. It is cruel and unjust and shouldn\'t be tolerated. I\'m not an animal rights activist but I do think that animals should be treated with respect.
My child your are so misguided. YOu are not an animal nor did you evolve from some common animal. You need more self-esteem because you are making yourself out to be nothing but an animal and your far from a mere monkey. They may have simular builds but they are regarded as high as we are. They are nothing but aninals. Who\'s purpose in life is only what we see fit. Get up man and get some confidence your not some wild jungle animal. YOur a human being of the highest regard. Everything else just doesn\'t matter.
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Ok, first of all, I ain\'t misguided. It is believed that we evolved with monkeys, chimps and apes. We are animals and if you don\'t believe me, we\'ll that\'s your problem. Second of all, I have self esteem. I have it and lots of it. So don\'t go making assumptions about me when you don\'t know me. We were in the wild years ago. Look in any book about early man. But our brains developed to what they are today. If there were no houses, we would still be what we had been living in 20,000 years ago, in the savanna in a fixed home base. Third of all, your making yourself look like an idiot. Everybody in this thread has been trying to tell you that. Your posts have been nothing but crap IMO.
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Quddus:
You\'re making it extraordinarily apparent that religion breeds arrogance in some. I\'m not going to generalize, because some other members holding the same beliefs as you completely disagree. But I\'ll make this blunt.
Animals are here for us to do as we please with them, correct? All living things are, correct? Alright. So why don\'t we just level the forests? Why don\'t we just demolish full ecosystems? They\'re our ecosystems, after all. Lets us leave a few million acres of rain forest a deserted wasteland; after all, it was our rain forest. We can do anything with it, right? ANWR. Lets just burn the whole forest, and slaughter the creatures there for fun. That sounds pretty good, doesn\'t it? And hey, we\'ll get some fuel out of it, so we can load it into our cars and fill the atmosphere with more smoke so we can kill some more birds. I mean, we can do whatever we want with these animals, right? Why don\'t we go and pour a few million gallons of clorox bleach into the Atlantic ocean? Sure, we might kill a few animals, but who cares, right? Those animals were put here for us, we can do what we want to them, correct?
And then we start having problems. Rain forests dead, land beneath them wasted, air growing thin from lack of oxygen; the temperature worldwide rapidly rising from too much carbon dioxide. Previously frozen water, rising above its normal level, flooding cities, leaving previously accessible locations inaccessible, to us anyhow. The world becoming progressively more uninhabitable, it eventually reaches a point at which it cannot sustain life. Or at least, to where it cannot sustain human life.
This, my friend, is what would happen if the planet was occupied by people like you. I know what your initial reaction will be, (no, no, I don\'t think it\'s good to kill animals and to destroy these things, I don\'t think we should do that.) but that\'s irrelevant. You see, when people believe that everything is theirs, that they can do what they want with anything and everything, they always wind up doing that. Because people always want a little more. And if they believe that they can do so, and get away with it, they do it. It\'s our nature.
Your belief system is dictating to you that you can indeed do anything you want with any organic thing on this earth. In believing these things were put here for us to do what we please with them, people think they can do what they please with them, and do so. And in continuously doing that, they eventually will deplete our environment to a point at which it can no longer sustain our life. As a result, humanity will cease to exist. Without oxygen being circulated into our atmosphere by the masses of plants, oxygen breathing organisms, like us, will be destroyed. Our water will be contaminated, our skies will be painted black. Because someone gave those to us, however, it doesn\'t matter.
We\'re like a child with a toy, going by what you say. While some of us take care of that toy because of what it is, a very precious possesion, others, such as you, abuse it. You toss it on the ground, you kick it. Unlike any toy, however, this toy sustains your life. When this toy no longer functions, neither you nor anyone else will be able to survive.
Even if these things were created for us, we can\'t just do what we want with them. No, we must take care of them. For if they\'re destroyed, us human beings "created in God\'s image" will be nothing more than a completed small paragraph in the text book of earth.
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Guys guys guys. I have heard this christian opinion over and over again. Don\'t get upset. They need to do it make themselves feel better for their shortcommings.
I allow them their opinion and I analyze why they think like that and its not good. But at any rate, I just wanted to know what some of you had to say.
I think its very disturbing that some people read one book ( a book writen by man) which is fallabe just as so. And take it word for word, or better yet take it out of context. The bible is a good book, it teaches morality, it teaches people to be good to one another. But do you know why? Because humans with out such guidance and fear instilled in them would be a very different creature. They would be worse the animals, they would kill each other, rape, pillage and steal from one another. It happens already, people who are criminals are wrought without morals. So the masses need to be taught, to not act like this. Thats where religon and the bible come into play.
Now all this talk about superiority, now thats got me a little disturbed. I remember reading parts of another book, called Mein Kompf. Some people back in the day, we will call them Nazis beleived that they were a superior race, and that everyone else on the earth was here to serve them. Now we all know what happend with that. Unfortunatly the masses beleived that and bad things happend.
Now Hindus beleive that all life is precious and everything on this planet and in the universe was created by god and contains god\'s energy. Which is true, ultimately it all came from god. I don\'t think anyone here is going to deny that.
Now my question to you HUMAN superior people, are they wrong?? Are they wrong about animals? They don\'t beleive they are superior over animals. And get this, there are a lot more hindus then there are Christians.
I don\'t think anyone should close their mind to any idea. Being open and trying to understand what is going on around you is the most important thing.
There is one thing gauaranteed to us all in this Life.... Its that your going to die.....
~kirath~
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Mein Kampf is a sick book..
They had some quotes from it in my history book.. :puke:
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A human is an animal, and to be honest, a physically weak animal. Lots of animals could bust human ass on even terms.
Human babies are very noisy. In nature, noisy babies quickly become dead babies. We are slow, we do not have fangs or claws for self-defense, or fur for warmth, rather poor hearing and sight (in comparison to some animals).
To be honest, we\'re actually on the bad end of things naturally, except for one, very important factor: Our Brains.
Human brains are by far the most complex of any animals. We can think on much higher levels, and thus we can adapt to challenges and changes much faster. That\'s how Mankind has made it so far with all the deficiencies we have. Noisy babies? We learn to keep them at a safe distance from predators. We can\'t defend ourselves with our hands and teeth? We create fire and spears to make up for it.
Humans are the highest on the food chain because we not only learn, but we pass on to others. Despite our warlike tendencies at times, we are also very social, and share what we learn so others learn it faster and better, and eventually, we do what animals almost never do with what they know: We improve on it. That\'s why we have all kinds of weaponry today and animals have nothing but the claws and teeth they had from the getgo. It\'s also why we, at least in the civilized world, live in luxury that puts the finest livery of 200 years ago to shame, better than the kings of the 18th century.
So because we are more advanced than any other animal, we do have sovereign right over all animals, and the world. In a way we are more than animals, because there is no animal as advanced as us, but we still share a lot in common with them physically. And if we do have souls, as I believe we do, then animals do as well. Animals rarely kill for no reason, they usually kill only to eat. Killing an animal to eat it is not soulless. But harming or killing an animal for any reason other than food or self defense is evil.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Your absolutely right. You are full of Bull:D
Whats the matter, can\'t think of any bull**** remark?
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Give it up QuDDus. You ain\'t got no arguement here. M4, Weltall and me are right jsut so you know. We are using fact, you are using opinion. If the earth was ours, it would have gone to hell already. We are not the strongest species on this planet. There are animals that could kick our ass easily. for example, loin vs. man. Hmm, we would die in an instant.
To try and save yourself, you are putting the ones argueing with you down. You call me misguided, no self esteem and that I am 100% wrong when my info came from an evolution book by Richard Leaky, son of Louis Leaky, one of the best antropologists. You have no case to c\'mon, give it up already.
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Ok, I had to post.
Do NOT base your opinions of Christians on Q\'s statements, please. As a person who believes in God and Christ (not going to go as far as to say I do a great job of practicing their beliefs though. Its one of my shortcomings!), I can safely say that he does a bad, bad job of expressing Christianity\'s, as a whole, opinion.
God meant for us to have domain on this earth, but to do so with compassion for all living things, in conjunction with all living things. He meant for us to rule with a caring, loving touch. And yes, I believe that God will be very, very upset with you if you wastefully harm one of his creatures, be it human, or animal, or even plant. As for whether or not animals have souls, well, I won\'t tell you my opinion either way, but, for you to believe that you are so supreme as to think you can indiscriminately do what you please with the earth, and that God will fully sanction said actions, you are sadly, sadly mistaken.
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I agree that God made us the dominent species on this planet. He made us more intelligent and more capable to do more things (tool wise and stuff like that). But does God want us to treat other organisms like plants and animals like crap? No. He wants humans to love and rejoice about his creations. Not go and treat them like crap. He wants us to enjoy his creations. I think it even says it in the Bible (well I\'m absolutely positive). God wants us to love and treat other things with respect.
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Do NOT base your opinions of Christians on Q\'s statements, please.
Ohh, trust me, I\'d never base my opinions on a huge number of people off of the views of one single person. That would be called "overgeneralizing."
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Trust me, I may be a little paranoid and bias but I am not that stupid to base an entire religion on one fanatics mindless rantings.
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I agreed with Ddarryl. There is no such thing as God nor soul. Only energy which may be represented in the form of collective conciousness.
We "think" we are alive, thus we disillusion ourselves and hold on to the concept of "soul" because it offers a very safe haven of from the unknown(when u die) because your need to exist is preserve in this theory of soul and an all loving "God"(which represent continuity of existence and a peaceful \'afterlife\') that\'ll save you from the burning fire of Hell(which represent fear and pain).
When u die, you\'ll be re-birth into a different form and possibly into another celestial plane..good or bad depending on your deeds(basically, your karma).
So remember, everyone is responsible for his own act & doing and there is no God that can save you but you can redeem yourself in your future re-birth with good deeds...once you get all the payment for your sins that is...
"You reap what you sow.."
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The above represent only my own thoughts and opinion. You are welcome to embrace and accept any religion which is good....as long as they don\'t declare no "jihad"!!!! Any god who ask his people to do his dirty job is sure heck one useless God!!!
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Just have to add this:
Somebody was saying if we kill for food, than it\'s ok else it\'s not??
I\'m sorry dude, I\'ve to totally disagree with that statement.
Killing for WHATEVER reason is wrong. If I\'m hungry and I kill u and eat you, is that okay??? Of course not!!! The same applies to animals!
That is why many people are becoming vegetarian(i\'m no vegetarian myself but I am trying to cut down on meat). In fact human teeth are not design to eat meat...with only 4 miserable sharp teeth in our mouth(which isn\'t very sharp either)....we\'re not carnivorous.
Furthermore, we have much longer intestine than meat eating animals like tigers and lions. Meat, if stay too long in our intestine become toxic and poinsonous to the body, that is why carnivorous have short intestine to process the stuff quickly and throw it out ASAP(commonly known as S.H.I.T :).
So by looking at the physical structure and design of the human body, humans are just not meant to eat meat, and killing CERTAINLY ISN\'T OK.
(but i\'ll forgive u if it\'s Osama Bin Ladeen you\'re eating).
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When u die, you\'ll be re-birth into a different form and possibly into another celestial plane..good or bad depending on your deeds(basically, your karma).
I\'m just wondering, what do you mean by "celestial plane?"
So remember, everyone is responsible for his own act & doing and there is no God that can save you but you can redeem yourself in your future re-birth with good deeds...once you get all the payment for your sins that is...
You claimed there wasn\'t a god. If so, why would we need to do good deeds? How does the planet (or the "energy") know if we\'ve been bad or good? How does it determine what we will be reincarnated as?
Just have to add this:
Somebody was saying if we kill for food, than it\'s ok else it\'s not??
I\'m sorry dude, I\'ve to totally disagree with that statement.
Killing for WHATEVER reason is wrong. If I\'m hungry and I kill u and eat you, is that okay??? Of course not!!! The same applies to animals!
I disagree with that. The bible says that the we have dominion over the animals, and that they were put down here for us. I don\'t think it\'s wrong to kill animals if you need to kill them for food because that is one reason they were put here. I do think it\'s wrong to kill animals if you don\'t need to or if you are just killing for fun.
That is why many people are becoming vegetarian(i\'m no vegetarian myself but I am trying to cut down on meat). In fact human teeth are not design to eat meat...with only 4 miserable sharp teeth in our mouth(which isn\'t very sharp either)....we\'re not carnivorous.
We are omnivours. We can eat both meat and plant. We don\'t have tons of sharp teeth, but we do have something even better -- brains. We have learned to eat meat by using knifes and forks. We can even grind the meat up before eating it (hamburger :)).
Furthermore, we have much longer intestine than meat eating animals like tigers and lions. Meat, if stay too long in our intestine become toxic and poinsonous to the body, that is why carnivorous have short intestine to process the stuff quickly and throw it out ASAP(commonly known as S.H.I.T .
I don\'t know about the human intestines, but I don\'t think meat gets stuck in them. Humans can digest meat just fine. If there was really a problenm with eating meat, doctors and scientists would have put out warnings just like they did with coffee and tobacco. If there really was a problem with eating meat, I don\'t think so many people would still be doing it.
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If you believe in evolution, one of our ancestors, I forget what it was, I think it was Homo Habilis but am not 100% sure, was carnivorus. But I\'m not sure but it was one of our early ancestors that man is supposedly evolved from. But we did eat meat when we (our species in early history :)) were in the wild.
That is why many people are becoming vegetarian(i\'m no vegetarian myself but I am trying to cut down on meat). In fact human teeth are not design to eat meat...with only 4 miserable sharp teeth in our mouth(which isn\'t very sharp either)....we\'re not carnivorous.
Uh, our teeth are designed for both. If we were true herbivores, we would have flat teeth, not flat and ridged teeth. But we are and always were and God created us to be onmivores. Our bodies are made so they eat both meat and plants. You may have different opinions on animal rights but IMO, it is ok to kill animals as a food source. Not to just kill them to watch them die. But I believe that certain animals God created so they would be a source of food for man. Example, cows, deer, turkey, pigs, and any other animals you eat in your diet. For survival, it isn\'t wrong. It\'s survival.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
If you do some how take your frustrations out on your dog, cat , or whatever. Don\'t go to pieces over it because it is not like you did something wrong too a human it\'s just an animal.
So why do we have a law against animal abuse? Should we just beat our animals whenever we feel like it? Or are you saying that if we accidently beat the crap out of our dog, then it\'s ok. Or is it ok to beat our cat only between the hours of 11am - 3pm...
I would never in a billion years beat my dog so I will never go to pieces over it. My dog is extremely smart. Knows the names of over 30 toys. Knows many many tricks. He\'s the sweetest dog in the world. If you are going to try and tell me that my dog doesn\'t count in this world and that he\'s "Just an animal" then I would have to say that my dog is a hell of a lot smarter than you are.
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First off, I don\'t believe in "God" or "souls" but if there is such a thing as "souls", then I believe dogs would have one also. Lets face it, we are just higher on the food chain - we are still just mammals, the same as dogs. Animals can feel pain, joy and even be scared. They do have emotions - just the same as humans.
Meaning of life is simple, go and have sex, reproduce so the species goes on. Gee, apparently our meaning is the same as those animals....
As for Q\'s statement about dogs just being servants and not having any real purpose. First off, for the most part they are not servants, they are companions, just like we are companions to them. Not to mention, animals do a lot more for this planet than we do in the long run.
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Originally posted by kirath
Guys guys guys. I have heard this christian opinion over and over again. Don\'t get upset. They need to do it make themselves feel better for their shortcommings.
:rolleyes: , I\'m not even going to begin to judge your opinions, because I know its just that, an opinion, but to me what you said is 100% B.S.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
If you are going to try and tell me that my dog doesn\'t count in this world and that he\'s "Just an animal" then I would have to say that my dog is a hell of a lot smarter than you are.
Vid\'s right. All of God\'s creations count in this world (i\'m not going into a religious debate here). If humans can beat animals whenever they feel like it, then God would never have made them.