PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Tshirts on November 05, 2001, 05:47:50 AM
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Although I have been vemently labeled biased and such....
It doesn\'t matter....
The fallacies in many fanboys is their inability to see from a more broader general viewpoint...
To me, I don\'t give a sh*t who wins the console war....
Sony fanboys have a more favorable proposition. Ask yourself, who is actually more biased? The neutral guy or the Sony *fanboy*?
In every single generation of consoles, there is a transcending console that strays from the medium and transgresses to the top.
The top categories that are the focal determining points of a successful console are:
1. Graphics
Sony failed to capitalized on this sector. Simply put, the system looks like sh*t. 90% of the launch games on the GC and Xbox already looks better than 60% of the games on the PS2. Many fanboys would point out such gems as Metal Gear Solid 2, GT3, and Devil May Cry as a focal graphical standpoint for the PS2. That is the fanboy viewpoint and it is biased as such. The average mean should be the determining factor and not the select few *top* titles. If we used Shenmue and Soul Caliber as the focal graphical standard for the Dreamcast, it would still be the *best* looking console today. My point being is, if the graphics already look this *good* today, imagine the disparity down the line when the developers have fully harnessed both the GC and Xbox. If 2nd generation PS2 games only equal first generation GC and Xbox games, doesn\'t that mean the system is *technically* one generation behind?
2. Support
The PS2 has an abundance of support but in direct constrast with the Xbox, it doesn\'t stray too far from any real advantages. Every single franchisee has already found their way or is going to another console. Microsoft and Nintendo both have in house personal developements that can serve as exclusives....although the PS2 has a couple, such as GT3 and TM, it is a relatively small number and is incapable of carrying the system on its own.
That is not a big issue though....
The main problem here is the level of commitment and loyality faithful companies are displaying toward Sony. They are no longer exclusive, and many of the once great, exclusive PSX franchises are finding their way onto multiple consoles.
One factor:
The difficult architect of the hardware. What it boils down to is the preference of the programmers. Preference goes a long way. For years, developers like Treasure stayed with the Sega Genesis because of the easy-to-program architecture. One of the main downfalls of the Saturn was its hard-to-program architecture and one of the greatest advantage of the PSX was its easy-to-program architecture.
Why is Namco praising the GC?
The easy-to-program architecture.
Many fanboys will argue with you and say "it doesn\'t matter how hard it is, if they are getting paid for it they will do it".....
That is a huge misconception. Microsoft and Nintendo both have the funds to render and match whatever Sony offers to these programmers. Money is not an issue for this generation unlike the past with Sega.
Last factor: History is a cycle.
When you look back at every generation of console, the leading company *never* continues their dominance....
Many will cite "but the PS2 will be different"...
I beg to differ. How is the generation of the Nes compared to the 16-bit be any different from the 32-bit to the 128-bit? It is a cycle. The industrial leader always gets beaten by a newcomer. Nintendo did it to Atari with the Nes, Sega did it to Nintendo with the Genesis, Sony did it to Sega/Nintendo(only because Sega dropped out of the race early to launch the Saturn), and Microsoft *will* do it to Sony.
How do I know? The industrial leader always sticks to a simple, tried and true, no-risk formula. They think they can repeat the same success with the same "rules" in a transcending industry. That is why they fail. They fail to realize the rapidity of growth in a technological industry like ours. Why isn\'t Nintendo a leader today? They stick to Mario and Zelda and the "child market". Why will Sony fail? They are not transcending the industry forward. We are not playing the PSX anymore and they don\'t realize that.
Fanboys will also cite "how can anyone top 20 million consoles"...
Simple. Through time. No console ever wins in their first year. How long did it take the Genesis to lead.....2-3 years. PSX? 2-3 years....the cycle will repeat. Microsoft will get a strong hold on the market, and through time, they will carve straight into the PS2\'s dominance. Nothing happens over night.
I have no doubt in my mind Microsoft will accomplish such a feat from the reasons I gave above. They are a serious competitor and the PS2 will not stand a chance.....not this generation anyway.
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oh god, not again. Please T-Shirts, I don\'t even know you, but your reputation is already as low as it can get.
*Phil goes and reads post*
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okay, I am bored - so I will replay to this lame post (can\'t resist.. hehe).
1. Graphics
You are forgeting that the PS2 has a steap learning curve. X-Box and GameCube both feature an easy architecture and DirectX and OpenGL to make programming easier. The PS2 how ever is pretty raw in terms of programming (it\'s tough), but as it showed, the PS2 is the only real inovative console in terms of hardware outthere. It has the newest technology and it\'s heaps more powerful than it seems. I believe that when developers really understand the architecture once, we will see some pretty amazing stuff. Konami, Polyphony, SCE-Liverpool, Capcom and other and smaller developers are already showing off their gift. Thanks to the unique and powerful architecture the PS2 has, I bet it will be just as good as X-box\'s graphics soon.
Something\'s quite ironic though: if Microsoft sais there console is 3 to 4 times more powerful than current consoles (meaning the PS2) and the architecture being so easy, why aren\'t we seing graphics that are surpassing PS2\'s by 3 or 4 times?
2. Support
First parties? *LOL* you\'re kidding right? Gran Turismo is probably the most successful racing series at the moment. Oh wait, Naughty Dog, SCE Liverpool, SCE Cambridge Studios, Team Soho plus a lot of others that are under Sony\'s 2nd party developers. Yep, all exclusives and the games are getting better and better. If you ask me, Sony has every reason to be among the big 3rd parties. All my most anticipated games (take out MGS2 and DMC) are from SCE. I don\'t see the problem...
Yep, it\'s hard to develop for (the PS2), but as developers have stated, it has a steap learning curve and once they have overcome this, things will get a lot better. And it\'s already paying off. Just look at BG:DA and that\'s from a very small developer team. Don\'t worry tshirts, Sony is doing the right thing to make things easier for the developers.
Many fanboys will argue with you and say "it doesn\'t matter how hard it is, if they are getting paid for it they will do it".....
As long as the results are there, it doesn\'t matter. And again, the PS2 isn\'t that hard to make any development nearly as bad as you make it to be. I guess you\'ve been swallowing too much of Larne Lornings (sp?) crap, eh?
3. History is a cycle
What the ****? Oh yeah, I get it: just because "History is a cycle" we should all dumb our PS2s and get a Xbox? Sony won last generation, so it\'s impossible for them to win this one too :rolleyes:
how much pot did you smoke?
Fanboys will also cite "how can anyone top 20 million consoles"...
Simple. Through time. No console ever wins in their first year. How long did it take the Genesis to lead.....2-3 years. PSX? 2-3 years....the cycle will repeat. Microsoft will get a strong hold on the market, and through time, they will carve straight into the PS2\'s dominance. Nothing happens over night.
How long did it take PSX to reach 20 million consoles? PS2 is already the most successful console and it\'s just gettin better. I don\'t see where your problem is, son.
Why will Sony fail? They are not transcending the industry forward. We are not playing the PSX anymore and they don\'t realize that.
Pretty strange. 80 million sold worldwide today and still selling. Games are still in development and coming (Syphon Filter 3, Harry Potter). I think there are a few that might not share your opinion dude... wake up. Life\'s a *****.
I have no doubt in my mind Microsoft will accomplish such a feat from the reasons I gave above. They are a serious competitor and the PS2 will not stand a chance.....not this generation anyway.
Great, then get your Xbox and live happily ever after. I know I will with my PS2. Oh wait, no I can\'t, not enough money to get all those AAA titles this and next month. :D
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bah who cares what he says... stop responding to this crap and he\'ll go away and do something more productive with his time (hopefully. doubt it though)
T-Shirts, you\'re entitled to an opinion but stop shoving it down our throats, we know what you think already from that review you
posted a few weeks back...
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I only got down to..
Although I have been vemently labeled biased and such....
It doesn\'t matter....
..before I realized that it wasn\'t worth my time to read the rest of Tshirts\' little boy rant.
Tshirts, We don\'t care.
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What a waste of my time, your an idiot TShirts, I didn\'t always agree with people bashing you, but now I know why they did
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lol. That was pretty funny. Tshirts was trying to find anything to bash the PS2 for -- even if it isn\'t a problem. I think Seven did a good job throwing what Tshirts said back at him. I wonder if Tshirts will come back and respond or just not come back until he has something else fanboyish to say.
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tshirt = "open mouth, insert foot"
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There can be NO SONY Fanboys since the PSX/PS2 are casual gamers machines:p :p :p :p :p :p :bounce: :bounce:
...God am I bored...:rolleyes:
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Great post T-Shirt.
Someone posts an educated analysis of what could happen in the coming years and people jump all over him for it. Get your respective heads out of your collective asses.
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C\'mon guys.
Thirts has a point here. Let us all toss aside our PS2\'s, or trade them into EB to get our Xbox\'s. I know I don\'t want all those crappy games that have been released and the rest that follow. Who needs that porn star Solid Snake, when I can have Munch. If it wasn\'t for true and open-minded gamers such as Tshirts, we would be stuck with our blasphemous PS2. Thank you Tshirts, I applaud your post, and I have seen the light.
:laughing:
/ dm /
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tshirt, or gohan
explain this comment
Microsoft will get a strong hold on the market
how do u plan on xbox getting strong hold on market, WHEN PS2 ALREADY HAS IT IN ITS FRICKIN HANDS
the market, is OWNED by sony
the xbox, WILL NEVER match the PS2\'s userbase
its a year late, plain and simple
can the xbox do anything short of "earthshattering" that the PS2 cant handle? i lost all respect when i found out halo does not run at 60 FPS. thats all it took for me
i might be a fine little system, and it might keep yer insecurities warm at night, but the prognosis stands that MOST consoles are bought by parents, and MOST kids do not want an XBOX for xmas.
[/end rant]
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Originally posted by Gohan
Great post T-Shirt.
Someone posts an educated analysis of what could happen in the coming years and people jump all over him for it. Get your respective heads out of your collective asses.
Umm.. no.
Little Tshirts here gave us a lame look into the future, stating that he apparently knows how the PS2 will "not stand a chance". You expect us to salute his post when it does nothing more than take up server space?
The industrial leader always gets beaten by a newcomer.... and Microsoft *will* do it to Sony.
Give me a break. This is almost as bad as that one from awhile ago that went something like, "All the consoles of the past that were black have fallen to competition, and the PS2 will be no different."
This is your idea of an educated analysis, Gohan?
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Wow,
I guess people were fooled by Gohan\'s sarcasm. :)
/ dm /
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Hey hey hey, I waited for the :rolleyes: to load in his post.
I didn\'t feel like debating whether or not he was being sarcastic, but I did feel like increasing my post count. Yeah.
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Getting a bit desperate are we Tshirt?
Feeling a bit scared? :laughing: :laughing:
Oh.. Right, Im a fanboy.. :rolleyes:
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MM...pleaze give tshirt the friggin troll picture
hes a moron, do you really think we listen to your huge post full of blabbering about your oh so great xbox and how it will win this war
:rolleyes:
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I\'m bored, so I\'ll have some fun too. :) I\'ll try not to repeat what Seven said.
Originally posted by Tshirts
1. Graphics
Sony failed to capitalized on this sector. Simply put, the system looks like sh*t. 90% of the launch games on the GC and Xbox already looks better than 60% of the games on the PS2.
In your biased opinion. In MY biased opinion, RL is the only game on the NGC that is graphically superior to the PS2. That isn\'t too impressive seeing how the NGC is so much easier to program for. The Xbox has DOA3 and Halo. Other than that though, what games on the Xbox give the PS2 a run for its money? Is it the PS2-identicle Munch, or the inferior NFL Fever?
Many fanboys would point out such gems as Metal Gear Solid 2, GT3, and Devil May Cry as a focal graphical standpoint for the PS2. That is the fanboy viewpoint and it is biased as such. The average mean should be the determining factor and not the select few *top* titles.
Wouldn\'t it make more sense if we compared the best looking PS2 games with the best looking Xbox/NGC/Dreamcast games? Maybe I\'m just crazy, but to me, that would make a lot more sense.
If we used Shenmue and Soul Caliber as the focal graphical standard for the Dreamcast, it would still be the *best* looking console today.
You are giving way to much credit to SC and Shenmue. Yes, they looked great for their time, but SC and Shenmue are not that graphically impressive anymore IMHO. They are games with a reletively low polygon count masked with great textures.
My point being is, if the graphics already look this *good* today, imagine the disparity down the line when the developers have fully harnessed both the GC and Xbox.
That isn\'t really a fair statement. You act as if the PS2 is not going to improve anymore -- which is again just your biased opinon.
If 2nd generation PS2 games only equal first generation GC and Xbox games, doesn\'t that mean the system is *technically* one generation behind?
I think Seven covered this one nicely. :)
2. Support
The PS2 has an abundance of support but in direct constrast with the Xbox, it doesn\'t stray too far from any real advantages. Every single franchisee has already found their way or is going to another console. Microsoft and Nintendo both have in house personal developements that can serve as exclusives....although the PS2 has a couple, such as GT3 and TM, it is a relatively small number and is incapable of carrying the system on its own.
First you say that "Every single franchisee has already found their way or is going to another console." Then you say "the PS2 has a couple [exclusive games]." Make up your mind.
IMO, Sony now has the best first party. Combine that with arguable the best 3rd party support and the PS2 is doing just fine.
The difficult architect of the hardware. What it boils down to is the preference of the programmers. Preference goes a long way. For years, developers like Treasure stayed with the Sega Genesis because of the easy-to-program architecture. One of the main downfalls of the Saturn was its hard-to-program architecture and one of the greatest advantage of the PSX was its easy-to-program architecture.
Actually, what it boils down to is how much money the developers can make, not which system is easier to program for. And here we go again with the PS2 vs Saturn argument. I think I\'ve done this hundreds of times, but some people still use it to bash the PS2. True, the downfall of the Saturn was it\'s hard to program architecture. But there is a difference between then and now. The Saturn was released 3 months before the easier-to-program PSX. The PS2 is released moer than a year before the easier to program Xbox and NGC. The PS2 has a 15 million plus userbase. The developers have been given the time to learn the PS2 unlike the Saturn.
Many fanboys will argue with you and say "it doesn\'t matter how hard it is, if they are getting paid for it they will do it".....
That is a huge misconception. Microsoft and Nintendo both have the funds to render and match whatever Sony offers to these programmers. Money is not an issue for this generation unlike the past with Sega.
What are you talking about? So you are saying that Microsoft and Nintendo will pay the developers as much money as they would get releasing their game on the PS2? The PS2\'s userbase is a huge factor in this console war, and no amount of money that Microsoft and Nintendo will be willing (or able) to give will be able to match the amount of money they will make releasing it on the PS2.
How do I know? The industrial leader always sticks to a simple, tried and true, no-risk formula. They think they can repeat the same success with the same "rules" in a transcending industry. That is why they fail. They fail to realize the rapidity of growth in a technological industry like ours. Why isn\'t Nintendo a leader today? They stick to Mario and Zelda and the "child market". Why will Sony fail? They are not transcending the industry forward. We are not playing the PSX anymore and they don\'t realize that.
Before you were bashing the PS2 because of it\'s new, hard to develope for archtecture. Now you\'re saying that Sony hasn\'t changed one bit? I guess Sony isn\'t taking a risk completely changing the way developers make games. :rolleyes: The PS2 also has a huge first party unlike the PSX. The only thing that I can think of that is the same is that the PS2 has dominance on the gaming market just like the 32/64 bit generation.
I have no doubt in my mind Microsoft will accomplish such a feat from the reasons I gave above. They are a serious competitor and the PS2 will not stand a chance.....not this generation anyway. [/B]
The PS2 won\'t stand a chance this generation? So they will when the Xbox2 and NGC2 are out? Ha. I know that\'s not what you meant, but it\'s still funny.
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Originally posted by mm
tshirt, or gohan
explain this comment
how do u plan on xbox getting strong hold on market, WHEN PS2 ALREADY HAS IT IN ITS FRICKIN HANDS
the market, is OWNED by sony
the xbox, WILL NEVER match the PS2\'s userbase
its a year late, plain and simple
over 20 million built and well well over 16 million sold world wide with a potention ofthat hitting far higher due to the PS2 Dominance in Europe for the rest and indeed the next year.
And all the time M$ are handeling the X box with the same stratagy as their Software.
well...... lets just say that this is one battle that Mircosoft cant win by employing their usual stratagy ...................
Buying the compention out :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
and for ONCE Microsoft have some real compention to contend with, it will just be intresting to see how they handel it.
TO MM (sorry mate i didn\'t beleve that one for a micron)
oh and on the point of HALO that was meant to be running at 60 FPS, we only have to look at the promose that M$ made with Windows 95
AT LAST this WILL be the END of the egg timmer and all Applications will load in microseconds !
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lol, ooseven
perhaps someday, someone will actually tell me to STFU and that the XBOX will match the PS2\'s installed userbase
but i guess thats one big step noone wants to take, and have it remembered
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I have no doubt in my mind Microsoft will accomplish such a feat from the reasons I gave above. They are a serious competitor and the PS2 will not stand a chance.....not this generation anyway.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmournblade.org%2Ffunney%2Fbs.gif&hash=beaa0456710de6f688b647b10f31434bb33e1f55)
If we used Shenmue and Soul Caliber as the focal graphical standard for the Dreamcast, it would still be the *best* looking console today.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaskguys.com%2F%257Epics%2Fhook-winner.jpg&hash=6ccaae79b239ea96e2f0ed7c042afbcd9f54ee9d)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaskguys.com%2F%257Epics%2Fdowninflames.jpg&hash=0ac69b71b65713571b58933fe201099f9496cfd6)
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lol, bossieman
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seven and Ironfist.... You both took that post of tshirts and rammed it up his xbox behind.... seven did a real good job... He pointed out things I have forgotten about and what I already knew....
My take on this subject:
Xbox isn\'t even out yet... So how the hell would we know who would win this "war"? I only follow where some of the greatest games are... Most of the Xbox games are games we have already played, or more of the same.
"Like my momma always said: There\'s more to videogames then flashy graphics."
And frankly... The graphics on Xbox don\'t impress me too much... Not that much of a diff... PS2 will get better..:)
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Never forget the curse of the black consoles, the saturn, the N64, the Genesis, the atari......Always black consoles have never won thier generations. The Ps2 and the Xbox are both black............ What do we know, Bill Gates can buy the Xbox\'s success.
The spotlight for last year around now was on the PS2 for the entire year.... This Christmas the spotlight is fixed on the GameCube, but when/where will the Xbox come in....
*heres wisper* 3DO.............
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Originally posted by JediMaster
Never forget the curse of the black consoles, the saturn, the N64, the Genesis, the atari......Always black consoles have never won thier generations. The Ps2 and the Xbox are both black............ What do we know, Bill Gates can buy the Xbox\'s success.
That\'s why the PS2 is releasing the limited edition colored units. ;)
The spotlight for last year around now was on the PS2 for the entire year.... This Christmas the spotlight is fixed on the GameCube, but when/where will the Xbox come in....
I disagree. The Gamecube will not own this Christmas. People are just as interested in the Xbox as they are with the NGC. Both systems will sell out this Christmas (just speculation, I know), and the PS2 will also sell lots of units. It isn\'t going to be easy for either the Xbox or NGC, because they are both competing against two great consoles. IMO, the PS2 will sell the most this Christmas again. Followed by the NGC. And then followed CLOSELY by the Xbox (because the NGC will have more units out).
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Sony failed to capitalized on this sector. Simply put, the system looks like sh*t. 90% of the launch games on the GC and Xbox already looks better than 60% of the games on the PS2.
95% of all statistics are made up on the spot. However, let us assume that your percentages are correct and if graphics are the main reason why people buy games, then for every 1 X-Box game that looks like it\'s worth playing, I can name 2 PS2 games that are worth playing. The problem with this statement is that some people will play certain games while others will not. A Nascar game can be the most stunning visual show piece a console has ever seen, but not everyone likes Nascar so people would rather play GT3 or Project Gotham. The style of the game is just as important as the graphics. If I made a Zelda clone and marketed it towards Nintendo fanboys and made sure it looked 10x\'s better than the Zelda it was in competition with, Zelda would sell better regardless.
So graphics, graphical style, brand name recognition, and company development are all very crucial parts when it comes to game sales.
Many fanboys would point out such gems as Metal Gear Solid 2, GT3, and Devil May Cry as a focal graphical standpoint for the PS2. That is the fanboy viewpoint and it is biased as such. The average mean should be the determining factor and not the select few *top* titles.
You said that 90% of x-box and GC games look better than most PS2 games, which ones? The only ones that I can see that are superior then anything are DOA3, Halo, Rogue Leader, and WaveRace. I almost discluded Wave Race simply because it\'s chief graphical achievement is the water. DOA3\'s chief graphical achievement is its backgrounds, even though the fighters look very similar to DOA2 HC\'s representations. Shall we go through the other launch games?
To expect every game to be an amazing graphical achievement is like expecting every hollywood film to have the best special effects ever. Some movies and some games just don\'t need that luster or that flair. They just need to do what they set out to accomplish: Be Entertaining.
If everyone on this Earth had the mentality such as yourself, then no one would play Grand Theft Auto 3. No one would play Super Monkey Ball. No one would play 2D Street Fighter games anymore. Since these games are still made the way they are, there is obviously an audience for them.
I\'m skipping the rest of your arguement because it is all completely contradictiary in terms... But I won\'t leave this part alone that discredits your entire thread.
How do I know? The industrial leader always sticks to a simple, tried and true, no-risk formula.
If that was the case, then Sony would have made a console that was easy to program for, cheap to build, cheap costing, and offered 0 extras or ideas in terms of innovation.
The PS2 is a DVD\\CD\\PSX\\PS2 game player. The PS2 has the worlds first controller that is entirely pressure sensitive which is being used today in the best games for some of the best reasons allowing 10 simple buttons (4 shoulders, 4 face, R3\\L3) to become 18 buttons thanks to it\'s ideas of pressure sensitivity. It\'s also the first console to incorporate USB controller support\\I.Link support for its games and multiplayer. It\'s also the first console\\DVD movie player and the first console to use the DVD format as its basic game medium.
I suppose that\'s tried and true\\low risk right?
Please, Sony and Sega are the two companies that are taking the most risk this generation. Sega first with the idea behind a console that is designed practically as an online machine and Sony for creating an innovative console in terms of design and functionality. The PS2 may not be the graphical beast that the X-Box is or that the GC is and it is definitely much more difficult to make games for, but it is still considered innovative for what it (the emotion engine) accomplishes.
Microsoft\\Nintendo are taking the safe route on this one. How could they not? The barely sold 1/3 of what the PSX sold and MS is the new kid on the block who can\'t afford to make ANY mistakes or take any huge risks, besides that glaring one of actually entering the business as a hardware manufacturer altogether. Microsoft and Nintendo can\'t afford to do anything that will jeapordize their future in this industry, but since Sony is the leader, they can afford to take the risk and see how things turn out. This "console war" will not be as clear cut as last generations\' but I assure you that there will be many things both companies do wrong that will make them better competitors in the future. Who cares who will win anyways?
It\'s all about having fun and to deny yourself a Playstation 2 is to deny yourself a load of fun. You have fun hating sony Tshirts, I\'ll have fun playing theirs, X-Box\'s and Gamecube\'s great games.
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I think I heard a toilet flush...., oh it was just T Shirts debate go down the drain :D
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I still do not see the XBox being a successful console after the XBox accually shows off its games running at 30fps:laughing:
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Finally... some people realize that XBox is not the end all of videogames. Heck, in my opinion, it\'s just a small "bump" in the road of videogame history. NeoGeo anyone? :)
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tippedweb, i like you already
please dont insult the neogeo by comparing it to the xbox
i always stated the 3DO was more akin to micro$ofts offering
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Originally posted by mm
tippedweb, i like you already
please dont insult the neogeo by comparing it to the xbox
i always stated the 3DO was more akin to micro$ofts offering
Oops! Sorry about that! :) I do love SNK but never did buy into their system. However, I did buy into the 3DO.... oh those days of Need For Speed and the first 3D FIFA kicked ass! Until they died. Oh wait... isn\'t that what\'s gonna happen to... nevermind. ;)
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Again.
Noone is worth a response. Ryu almost got me there. Close but no cigar.
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Originally posted by JediMaster
I still do not see the XBox being a successful console after the XBox accually shows off its games running at 30fps:laughing:
Hmmm, that\'s funny. I thought Waverace was running at 30fps too. It\'s not that funny anymore, is it?
EDIT: Tshirts just admitted that he has been beat. Of course, the fanboy inside of him prevents him from coming out and saying it, but you get the idea. :)
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Again.
Noone is worth a response. Ryu almost got me there. Close but no cigar.
I like how you stepped away from the thread entirely and declared yourself the winner of the debate without even... ya know... debating. Very very nice tactic. Without even offering a rebuddle, you somehow, in your opinion, won the arguement. That has to be the funniest thing I have ever seen.
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Well, you guys did a good job to defend the PS2 (though it was relatively easy :D ).
I`d just like to remind that the Xbox will be $450-470 when it launches in europe... games wil be $70 -80. That will not help to outsell the PS2.
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You guys must have Microsoft confused with some other company.
They won\'t LET it fail. They will pump money into it until it turns a profit. Also, if they keep getting great exclusives like Project Ego, Shenmue II, and Halo, it will be a good console to me.
I don\'t really care what anyone else thinks, the system WILL have great games, and it WILL be around for a long while, probably longer than GC, since sales have been crap in Japan as of late.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
They won\'t LET it fail. They will pump money into it until it turns a profit. Also, if they keep getting great exclusives like Project Ego, Shenmue II, and Halo, it will be a good console to me.
If the Xbox is doing nothing but losing Microsoft\'s money, of course Microsoft will just drop it. Sure, they will put a lot of money in it, and try and try to make it successful, but if they can\'t make that money back, I\'m sure they won\'t hesitate to scrap it. But that probably won\'t happen. It is very unlikely that the Xbox flops.
I don\'t really care what anyone else thinks, the system WILL have great games, and it WILL be around for a long while, probably longer than GC, since sales have been crap in Japan as of late.
Maybe you just didn\'t notice this, but I think it\'s worth pointing out. The NGC is blowing the Xbox away in Japan. Obviously I\'m trying to prove a point. It isn\'t fair to base the success of the Xbox on how the NGC is doing in Japan, because we haven\'t seen if the Xbox has what it takes either.
The Xbox will be fighting an uphill battle this Christmas in America too because there will be more NGC units out and the NGC will be $100 less -- a perfect pick for Santa Claus. :)
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From the looks of it here in europe is that xbox will be dead on arrival, a 299 pounds system cannot compete with 199 when it launches in 2002. The gamecube will be the only (and I belive it will be a tough fight for sony) for ps2. Xbox keeps screwing us eauropeans over :( :mad:
how can xbox win without europe and japans support?
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Originally posted by Metal_Gear_Ray
how can xbox win without europe and japans support? [/B]
I don\'t think Microsoft realizes they don\'t own the gaming world like the do the computer world. They are depending on the US to worship them and buy millions of units, but most Americans still think of Sega, Nintendo, and Sony when they think of gaming consoles.
I am actually pretty excited for the launch of the Xbox. This is one thing that I have no idea how well it will do. Usually I can predict things that will happen just with common knowledge, but I honestly have no idea what is going to happen, and have no leads to believe either way. The Xbox could actually be very successful because of how powerful and easy to program it is. But it could also flop because of the hold Sony and Nintendo have on gamers worldwide.
When is the launch? November 15th or something? The anticipation is killing me...
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as usual, i agree wholeheartedly withy altered_beast
i dont think he xbox will crash and burn, but it most certainly will not topple the PS2
the xbox does has some nice looking game coming out, and i will be forced to get one eventually if i wanna continue my two favorite franchises, shenmue and oddworld
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T-shirt speaks the truth. Sony messed uped. Whether sony drones want to admit it or not they messed uped. Ms and nintendo are in the perfect position to over throw. And I am with you on the graphic thing. That is all a lot ppl throw up on this forum is MGS2,TMB,GT3,dmc PS2 has great graphics....hahaha 4 games and the system has great graphics. I agree 200% on that note. But t-shirt on a ps2 forum you never going to get honest answers. They site lives breaths and dies ps2 you 98% of the ppl on this forum would never admit to anything sony does wrong. A lot of ppl here claim to be multi-console but I find that hard to believe. The way some ppl here love there ps2 is shocking. I have no love for no console especially when there are two other great consoles on the way. If you where honest you would have to keep a honest mind but some ppl just love sony and they would never say anything wrong about them.
But I think Ms and nintendo will have to start cranking out the games. 2002 ps2 has no big huge franchise coming out. With the rumored ffx after christmas. 2002 would be a great time for nintenod and ms to crank out the titles. And nintendo has been critisized a lot for it\'s lack on games. Nintendo will have to put the peddle to the meddle.
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For gods sake QuDDus!!
:laughing: :laughing:
I expected more from you. :yawn:
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Originally posted by QuDDus
I have no love for no console especially when there are two other great consoles on the way. [/B]
2 great consoles ..... one maybe in some peoples books but not 2 it cant be next you will be telling me that they will be released within days of each other ....
Alright name them !
i don\'t beleve you that there are 2 great console comming out soon, never have i heard anything more God damn Ridiculous.
LIAR ! Liar PANTS ON FIRE !
:p :clown: :p
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I will point out the main reasons why I am not replying to most of you.....
I don\'t believe in senseless contentions that focus on insignificant subjective matters....
You can go on with your opinions on why the PS2 is the greatest console ever with persuasive examples supporting your argument. I can care less. To me, I am way past that. I don\'t waste my time arguing over subjective matters that cannot be dislodge. It is your opinion, and getting into any mudslinging of that sort is ludicrous, blind fanboyism that is irrefutable. It is a waste of time.
If you really want a response from me, I suggest delving deeper into the heart of the industry and using an almost intuitive form of intelligence to philophosize the outcome of it. It will be radically different from everyone\'s viewpoint because it is your own.
Currently only 1 person in here hold such merit .....Ryu.
The rest of you guys....
.......argue over some of the smallest, most minute crap that has no end and no significance. It seems like you are arguing just for the sake of argument. One guy will say this game has better graphics, the next guy will come in and cite another game.....it is really pathetic and many of you fail to realize subjective matters can never be argue because there is neither a right nor a wrong....
Why not bring it to the next level and use your intuitive intelligence to gather facts and data and come up with your own theories about the industry...
It will definitely make this forum a lot more interesting.....
Fanboys flaming each other back and forth tends to get boring y\'know....
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Tshirts,
I think you failed to realize something.
Most of us don\'t give a flying f\'ck as to what you think or have to say. You\'re as biased as they come and every single thread you have started is to trash Sony. Get over it, no one takes you seriously, and they only reply over their own boredom. Go back to your M$ lair where people might think otherwise.
/ dm /
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Tshirts,
Its almost as if your doing exactly what you did on the Dailyradar boards, try to turn people against PS2. Your arguements have been shot down, by Ryu, and, you call yourself a debator? Ryu pretty much shot down every little thing you said. You call youself unbias, yet you tend to lean toward being bias to the Xbox? None of us here care what you say about the PS2, because PS2 is here to stay, and Microsoft won\'t be getting ahold of Sony\'s market share for quite some time. Sure I\'m happy about Xbox, and will be picking one up next thursday, Its just i don\'t see MS taking over the #1 spot in the console war. the ps2 DOES STAND A CHANCE, and there is no way in hell that the PS2 will be wiped off the face of the earth when Xbox and GC are out.
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Originally posted by fastson
For gods sake QuDDus!!
:laughing: :laughing:
I expected more from you. :yawn:
Why, Quddus has always posted utter crap like that
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Originally posted by Bozco
Why, Quddus has always posted utter crap like that
*searching memory*
Why yes he has.. :evil:
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.legacyofsorrow.net%2Fmj%2Fthreadgay.jpg&hash=e2810373ae214f13a75b68afc5e5c7476d3f79d3)
Just try to say anything else, just try ok?
I will point out the main reasons why I am not replying to most of you.....
Not interested because...............................
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2F_mrblank%2Fponch.jpg&hash=fafc19cac05ba89853f8d411c89f242d43abb422)
Bossieman vs Tshirt
2-0
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QuDDus:
And I am with you on the graphic thing. That is all a lot ppl throw up on this forum is MGS2,TMB,GT3,dmc PS2 has great graphics....hahaha 4 games and the system has great graphics.
The Bouncer, ICO, MGS2, SH2, TMB, GT3, DMC, VF4, GT3, ZOE, SSX, TTT, DOA2: HC, Jak and Daxter, FFX, BG: DA.
Ok QuDDus, now it\'s your turn. Name all the Xbox games with great graphics. I\'m sure you won\'t name more than a handful of games. Why? Because there are not more than a handful of games! The Xbox fanboys haven\'t realized that they are in no position to bash the PS2 graphics, because most of them still haven\'t seen what most Xbox games look like, and there really aren\'t that many Xbox games that are graphically impressive. It\'s just the best few games that the fanboys use to compare to the PS2.
Ms and nintendo are in the perfect position to over throw.
I agree. The PS2 only has a 16 million userbase, hundreds of games, and a choke hold on European and Japanese gamers (and actually, American gamers too as of right now).
- In Japan, the Gamecube is doing poorly. Why will the Xbox be any different?
- In Europe, the PS2 is the only console that will be out this year. I don\'t see how that is a good thing for the NGC and Xbox.
- In America, the Xbox is most likely to have a shortage of consoles (according to the numerous reports). The NGC will have a lot though, so it will probably be very successful in America. But the PS2 will have millions ready for the Christmas season and tons of great games. People will want the PS2, and will be able to get it easily. And not everyone will get an Xbox or NGC even if they really want it, so they will get a PS2 instead.
So I guess I don\'t agree. My mistake. IMO, the PS2 is in a perfect position. Great first and 3rd party support. A huge userbase. Easier and easier to program every day for the developers because of the developement tools. A name that almost everyone trusts and loves (unlike Xbox). And tons of awesome games.
But I think Ms and nintendo will have to start cranking out the games. 2002 ps2 has no big huge franchise coming out. With the rumored ffx after christmas. 2002 would be a great time for nintenod and ms to crank out the titles. And nintendo has been critisized a lot for it\'s lack on games. Nintendo will have to put the peddle to the meddle.
The PS2 doesn\'t have too many that have been announced, but just wait until E3. We do have some key games that will keep the PS2 alive though (like VF4. Will people bother buying an Xbox and DOA3 if they can get VF4 instead? I really don\'t think so.)
Tshirts:
I don\'t believe in senseless contentions that focus on insignificant subjective matters....
Then why did you post this thread?
You can go on with your opinions on why the PS2 is the greatest console ever with persuasive examples supporting your argument.
You obviously don\'t visit here very often. Most of us don\'t think the PS2 is the greatest console ever, but we do think that it is a great console.
I can care less. To me, I am way past that. I don\'t waste my time arguing over subjective matters that cannot be dislodge. It is your opinion, and getting into any mudslinging of that sort is ludicrous, blind fanboyism that is irrefutable. It is a waste of time.
Again, why did you post here? If you care less about our opinions, why did you even bother posting this thread?
If you really want a response from me, I suggest delving deeper into the heart of the industry and using an almost intuitive form of intelligence to philophosize the outcome of it. It will be radically different from everyone\'s viewpoint because it is your own.
I learn from example Tshirts. Can you understand why I haven\'t "delved deeper into the heart of the industry blah blah blah." It\'s because you haven\'t. You are a hypocrite.
Fanboys flaming each other back and forth tends to get boring y\'know....
Tee hee hee. This is coming from Tshirts. He he. Ok, I\'ll just leave this one alone.
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Originally posted by Tshirts
Although I have been vemently labeled biased and such....
It doesn\'t matter....
The fallacies in many fanboys is their inability to see from a more broader general viewpoint...
To me, I don\'t give a sh*t who wins the console war....
Sony fanboys have a more favorable proposition. Ask yourself, who is actually more biased? The neutral guy or the Sony *fanboy*?
In every single generation of consoles, there is a transcending console that strays from the medium and transgresses to the top.
The top categories that are the focal determining points of a successful console are:
1. Graphics
Sony failed to capitalized on this sector. Simply put, the system looks like sh*t. 90% of the launch games on the GC and Xbox already looks better than 60% of the games on the PS2. Many fanboys would point out such gems as Metal Gear Solid 2, GT3, and Devil May Cry as a focal graphical standpoint for the PS2. That is the fanboy viewpoint and it is biased as such. The average mean should be the determining factor and not the select few *top* titles. If we used Shenmue and Soul Caliber as the focal graphical standard for the Dreamcast, it would still be the *best* looking console today. My point being is, if the graphics already look this *good* today, imagine the disparity down the line when the developers have fully harnessed both the GC and Xbox. If 2nd generation PS2 games only equal first generation GC and Xbox games, doesn\'t that mean the system is *technically* one generation behind?
2. Support
The PS2 has an abundance of support but in direct constrast with the Xbox, it doesn\'t stray too far from any real advantages. Every single franchisee has already found their way or is going to another console. Microsoft and Nintendo both have in house personal developements that can serve as exclusives....although the PS2 has a couple, such as GT3 and TM, it is a relatively small number and is incapable of carrying the system on its own.
That is not a big issue though....
The main problem here is the level of commitment and loyality faithful companies are displaying toward Sony. They are no longer exclusive, and many of the once great, exclusive PSX franchises are finding their way onto multiple consoles.
One factor:
The difficult architect of the hardware. What it boils down to is the preference of the programmers. Preference goes a long way. For years, developers like Treasure stayed with the Sega Genesis because of the easy-to-program architecture. One of the main downfalls of the Saturn was its hard-to-program architecture and one of the greatest advantage of the PSX was its easy-to-program architecture.
Why is Namco praising the GC?
The easy-to-program architecture.
Many fanboys will argue with you and say "it doesn\'t matter how hard it is, if they are getting paid for it they will do it".....
That is a huge misconception. Microsoft and Nintendo both have the funds to render and match whatever Sony offers to these programmers. Money is not an issue for this generation unlike the past with Sega.
Last factor: History is a cycle.
When you look back at every generation of console, the leading company *never* continues their dominance....
Many will cite "but the PS2 will be different"...
I beg to differ. How is the generation of the Nes compared to the 16-bit be any different from the 32-bit to the 128-bit? It is a cycle. The industrial leader always gets beaten by a newcomer. Nintendo did it to Atari with the Nes, Sega did it to Nintendo with the Genesis, Sony did it to Sega/Nintendo(only because Sega dropped out of the race early to launch the Saturn), and Microsoft *will* do it to Sony.
How do I know? The industrial leader always sticks to a simple, tried and true, no-risk formula. They think they can repeat the same success with the same "rules" in a transcending industry. That is why they fail. They fail to realize the rapidity of growth in a technological industry like ours. Why isn\'t Nintendo a leader today? They stick to Mario and Zelda and the "child market". Why will Sony fail? They are not transcending the industry forward. We are not playing the PSX anymore and they don\'t realize that.
Fanboys will also cite "how can anyone top 20 million consoles"...
Simple. Through time. No console ever wins in their first year. How long did it take the Genesis to lead.....2-3 years. PSX? 2-3 years....the cycle will repeat. Microsoft will get a strong hold on the market, and through time, they will carve straight into the PS2\'s dominance. Nothing happens over night.
I have no doubt in my mind Microsoft will accomplish such a feat from the reasons I gave above. They are a serious competitor and the PS2 will not stand a chance.....not this generation anyway.
Damn, you are one ELEGANT sonofa*****. Did you borrow my brain while writing this? I can\'t believe you put this better than I ever could. Damn, this was a great post! This man speaks the truth and he isn\'t afraid to do it on a PS2 site. Anyone who bashes this guy is a bonafide fanho. Sony thinks it\'s still battling the Saturn and the N64...they\'re wrong. It takes more than rehashes. Old franchises never made a console popular. Mario and Zelda never made the N64 more popular than the Super NES just as Final Fantasy and MGS won\'t make the PS2 as popular as the PSX. Each generation, people want something new. Tried and true doesn\'t work in an industry that rapidly evolves. I used to think this was the most objective forum on the web, but after reading replies in other threads from MM and others, I was dead wrong. This board is full of Sony fanboys who don\'t know the meaning of the word "objective".
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This is so funny....
So what is exactly so new and exciting and innovative about the X-Box?
What is MS doing which is so vastly different than to what Sony are doing?
I\'d sure as hell like to know coz I\'ve seen nothing of that yet.
And who the **** are you to talk about others not being objective you stupid twat? hehehhe, man you\'re so dumb it\'s not even funny.
You\'re one of the most biased persons on this board. The double standard of some people are quite amazing and only reveals lack of intellect.
And another thing, Project Gotham is basically a sequel, DOA3 is a rehash of DOA2 with great graphics and Munch is another game in that franchise... So you\'re whole point is totally lost coz guess what? It applies to your precious X-Box as well...
And btw, I\'m planning on getting an X-Box but I\'m not a graphics whore like all other X-Box fanboys like yourself.
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Originally posted by DirectXbox
Damn, you are one ELEGANT sonofa*****. Did you borrow my brain while writing this? I can\'t believe you put this better than I ever could. Damn, this was a great post! This man speaks the truth and he isn\'t afraid to do it on a PS2 site. Anyone who bashes this guy is a bonafide fanho. Sony thinks it\'s still battling the Saturn and the N64...they\'re wrong. It takes more than rehashes. Old franchises never made a console popular. Mario and Zelda never made the N64 more popular than the Super NES just as Final Fantasy and MGS won\'t make the PS2 as popular as the PSX. Each generation, people want something new. Tried and true doesn\'t work in an industry that rapidly evolves. I used to think this was the most objective forum on the web, but after reading replies in other threads from MM and others, I was dead wrong. This board is full of Sony fanboys who don\'t know the meaning of the word "objective".
I\'m bored so, heres what i have to say to you.
Okay, first thing you say Tshirts is an intelligent human being? I\'d have to disagree with you right there, he is the biggest example of what we here at PSX2C like to call as Trolls, something that you happen to be also. Secondly, anyone who bashes Tshirts is a fanho, please fill us in on what a fanho is, because the last time I checked NONE of us here are bias sony fanboys. Let me dig up a dictionary meaning of "objective".
Here it is.
ob·jec·tive (b-jktv)
adj.
Of or having to do with a material object.
Having actual existence or reality.
Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic. See Synonyms at fair1.
Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal.
Medicine. Indicating a symptom or condition perceived as a sign of disease by someone other than the person affected.
Grammar.
Of, relating to, or being the case of a noun or pronoun that serves as the object of a verb.
Of or relating to a noun or pronoun used in this case.
So, your calling us critics of the Xbox eh? Sorry to say, last time i checked most of us here weren\'t critics of the Xbox ethier, your just putting words in peoples mouths, and personally your posts remind me of a five year old kid. I\'m sorry, but Tshirts isn\'t one of those intelligent Xbox fanboys that claim to exsist, oh, and we aren\'t graphic whores like you are DXB. Anyone who says that the PS2 doesn\'t stand a chance needs to be kicked in the ass, and dragged across a big plate of glass, because where it stands now, Sony is not taking **** from anyone, not even MS will get ahold of Sony\'s market share right off the bat, hell, I\'m not bias here, and I\'m looking forward to Xbox, but the console that has the most potential right now is,*gasp* you guess it, PS2
Btw, DirectX, Here is something for you
Xbox fanboys, click here (http://www.cyberarmy.com/crash.shtml)
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JP, they actually had the balls to put a HDD and broadband into a game console!!! How is that not innovative. The possibilities are virtually limitless. To deny this is to bask in the ignorance of fanboyism. Thanks to the HDD, in Project Gotham I get to hear the DJ play songs that I ripped to the HDD--even giving talking over the intro of a song just like in real life. How is that not innovative? On graphics, if Xbox launch games look better than current PS2 games (which they do), what do you think Xbox second generation games will look like? Have you seen Brute Force? Can PS2 even begin to render that game? To the inevitable, "it isn\'t the graphics that matter, it\'s the games..." I say stop the fanboy hypocrisy!!! To those of you who bought a PS2 last year, you sure as hell didn\'t buy it for the games! What, Madden and SSX? Go to hell! You just bought those games for the graphics because Madden was already out on the N64 and PSX and who in the hell would buy a system for one damn game! So shove it with the fanboy hypocrisy! You PS2 fanboys sicken me!
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Originally posted by DaRkGaMeR
I\'m bored so, heres what i have to say to you.
Okay, first thing you say Tshirts is an intelligent human being? I\'d have to disagree with you right there, he is the biggest example of what we here at PSX2C like to call as Trolls, something that you happen to be also. Secondly, anyone who bashes Tshirts is a fanho, please fill us in on what a fanho is, because the last time I checked NONE of us here are bias sony fanboys. Let me dig up a dictionary meaning of "objective".
Here it is.
ob·jec·tive (b-jktv)
adj.
Of or having to do with a material object.
Having actual existence or reality.
Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic. See Synonyms at fair1.
Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal.
Medicine. Indicating a symptom or condition perceived as a sign of disease by someone other than the person affected.
Grammar.
Of, relating to, or being the case of a noun or pronoun that serves as the object of a verb.
Of or relating to a noun or pronoun used in this case.
So, your calling us critics of the Xbox eh? Sorry to say, last time i checked most of us here weren\'t critics of the Xbox ethier, your just putting words in peoples mouths, and personally your posts remind me of a five year old kid. I\'m sorry, but Tshirts isn\'t one of those intelligent Xbox fanboys that claim to exsist, oh, and we aren\'t graphic whores like you are DXB. Anyone who says that the PS2 doesn\'t stand a chance needs to be kicked in the ass, and dragged across a big plate of glass, because where it stands now, Sony is not taking **** from anyone, not even MS will get ahold of Sony\'s market share right off the bat, hell, I\'m not bias here, and I\'m looking forward to Xbox, but the console that has the most potential right now is,*gasp* you guess it, PS2
Just how in the **** did you interpret my post? I was criticizing these fanboy bastards for flaming on a truthful and well-written post. These sons of *****es didn\'t have one valid argument against his post, they just started attacking him. Ad hominem arguments are the number one sign of fanboyism.
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Originally posted by DirectXbox
Just how in the **** did you interpret my post? I was criticizing these fanboy bastards for flaming on a truthful and well-written post. These sons of *****es didn\'t have one valid argument against his post, they just started attacking him. Ad hominem arguments are the number one sign of fanboyism.
We attacked him, because he doesn\'t know jack **** about PS2, thats what! This man is not intelligent, and Ryu pretty much ripped him up good. Tshirts thinks he knows something we already don\'t know. Now, as i see it your a PS2 owner right? Why ***** and moan about it here. Your right about them being fanboys:rolleyes: Ryu had a valid arguement, and Tshirts failed to deliver a decent debate against what Ryu had already said, proves Tshirts is a pussy. Still though, don\'t get me wrong, I\'m one of those people getting Xbox next week.
Btw, his post is neither truthful, nor well written, If i were him, I\'d pack my bags, and not bother posting here anymore.
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even giving talking over the intro of a song just like in real life.
Oh wow, tons of innovation. Oh wait, Ferrari on DC did this, as well as GTA3.
No need to point out the rehashes on xbox since others have done this. Don\'t like the PS2 or the people on this forum? Leave. Yes, it\'s that simple.
/ dm /
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DirectXbox--yay another Xbox fanboy.:rolleyes: Is your life really that boring? I mean if that\'s all you can do is make fun of the PS2? If they ever made a book about you would it be called "PS2 and GameCube Suck! Xbox Will Be The Best Console Ever Made!"? Ooh I better be careful because you might reply buy saying I suck or something else. Excuse me why I let you flame me and the PS2 again.:snore:
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People seem to think ps2 won\'t do well.
BAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHARRRARRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHEHEHEHEHHEHHEHEEEEEEEEHAHBAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHARRRARRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHEHEHEHEHHEHHEHEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHOHOHHEHEHEHEHHEHEHAHAHAHAHBAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHARRRARRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHEHEHEHEHHEHHEHEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHOHOHHEHEHEHEHHEHEHAHAHAHABAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHARRRARRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHEHEHEHEHHEHHEHEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHOHOHHEHEHEHEHHEHEHHHHHBAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHARRRARRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHEHEHEHEHHEHHEHEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHOHOHHEHEHEHEHHEHEHOHBAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHARRRARRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHEHEHEHEHHEHHEHEEEEEEEEHAHAHBAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHARRRARRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHEHEHEHEHHEHHEHEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHOHOHHEHEHEHEHHEHEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHOHOHHEHEHEHEHHEHEHOHHEHEHEHEHHEHEH
Errr. Hello, It\'s already got a HUGE fanbase and HUGE sales.
This console isn\'t goin anywhere, This console will be out there for a long time to come.. Just as PSX is.
If we used Shenmue and Soul Caliber as the focal graphical standard for the Dreamcast, it would still be the *best* looking console today.
Guess u haven\'t played TTT or even seen MGS2. SC is good looking.. But the character models have far less polys then the models in TTT. Therefore TTT models have REAL chests, not textures.
I have a Dreamcast.. But i KNOW there are ps2 games that make DC\'s BEST looking games look like utter crap.
But none the less.
I still love the DC, It\'s got good games with good graphics. But i don\'t live in a world thinking the SC looks better then TTT or Shenmue looks better then MGS2..
I mean DARN. SHENMUE HAS SLOWDOWN.
I really can\'t be bothered getting into this. as it\'s quite lame and boring. I used to debate this crap all the time. Now I’ve learnt its desperate people coming into a PS2 forum to debate which system is better, When they don\'t even like ps2... Quite lame.... REALLY lame.
As for Directxbox. I won\'t debate against someone who proves he\'s bias by having a Nick named after a console. I mean.. COME ON.
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ah hell, now u guys went and pissed off soulgrind
and i thought clyde was dangerous!
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
As for Directxbox.
FINALLY! Someone realizes what this console really is. I praise your wisdom. Everytime I attempt to "inform" people about the facts that Xbox is just a PC using DirectX, they all flame me.
Oh well, I know the truth and so do you :)
Peace.
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Originally posted by tippedweb
FINALLY! Someone realizes what this console really is. I praise your wisdom. Everytime I attempt to "inform" people about the facts that Xbox is just a PC using DirectX, they all flame me.
Oh well, I know the truth and so do you :)
Peace.
:rolleyes: , you can\'t be serious
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Originally posted by Bozco
:rolleyes: , you can\'t be serious
Roll your eyes... I can\'t wait until XBox games are hackable to be played on a PC. Ah, the glory!
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Originally posted by DirectXbox
Damn, you are one ELEGANT sonofa*****. Did you borrow my brain while writing this? I can\'t believe you put this better than I ever could. Damn, this was a great post! This man speaks the truth and he isn\'t afraid to do it on a PS2 site. Anyone who bashes this guy is a bonafide fanho. Sony thinks it\'s still battling the Saturn and the N64...they\'re wrong. It takes more than rehashes. Old franchises never made a console popular. Mario and Zelda never made the N64 more popular than the Super NES just as Final Fantasy and MGS won\'t make the PS2 as popular as the PSX. Each generation, people want something new. Tried and true doesn\'t work in an industry that rapidly evolves. I used to think this was the most objective forum on the web, but after reading replies in other threads from MM and others, I was dead wrong. This board is full of Sony fanboys who don\'t know the meaning of the word "objective".
Well, here\'s the thing, my boy. Whether he\'s right or not... =NONE OF US GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT PS2\'S DEFICIENCIES! I laugh when I see you fanboy scum go on and on about programming difficulties and hardware strengths... None of us program the games, we just play them!
Get your heads out of your asses PLEASE. People who come to a PS2 forum to "reveal the truth" are morons. It\'s just like electoral propaganda. No one gives a fuck. I don\'t care how hard it was to program GTA3, because it\'s fun as hell. THAT\'S WHAT COUNTS. THE GAMES! I don\'t doubt XBox is more powerful than PS2. I\'m a gamer, and a real gamer plays GAMES. Not CONSOLES.
Oh, and if history is so important to you console whores, chew on this: The most powerful system never wins the console war. :p
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JP: So what is exactly so new and exciting and innovative about the X-Box?
DirectXbox: JP, they actually had the balls to put a HDD and broadband into a game console!!! How is that not innovative.
DirectXbox, JP was responding to what you originally posted. In your original post, you were only talking about software. Not once did you mention hardware in your post.
It takes more than rehashes. Old franchises never made a console popular. Mario and Zelda never made the N64 more popular than the Super NES just as Final Fantasy and MGS won\'t make the PS2 as popular as the PSX.
So don\'t get all bent out of shape by him not thinking of the hardware, because it was entirely your fault.
I think this has been covered by just about everyone (I\'m still waiting for Ryu to get here though ;)), but if it hasn\'t sunk in yet, here it is again: You, my biased friend, are an idiot.
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Originally posted by IronFist
QuDDus:
The Bouncer, ICO, MGS2, SH2, TMB, GT3, DMC, VF4, GT3, ZOE, SSX, TTT, DOA2: HC, Jak and Daxter, FFX, BG: DA.
Ok QuDDus, now it\'s your turn. Name all the Xbox games with great graphics. I\'m sure you won\'t name more than a handful of games. Why? Because there are not more than a handful of games! The Xbox fanboys haven\'t realized that they are in no position to bash the PS2 graphics, because most of them still haven\'t seen what most Xbox games look like, and there really aren\'t that many Xbox games that are graphically impressive. It\'s just the best few games that the fanboys use to compare to the PS2. .
[/b]
you telling me with 100 games or more on ps2 that is all you can name. And some of those games you names aren\'t even out yet. And my point was that a lot of sony fanboys like to boast graphics off of a couple of games. Just as you just did. You have proven a valid point. I was not knocking ps2 graphics or saying it doesn\'t have good graphics I was merely pointing something that a lot of sony drones like to point out. And my friend you fell right in suit. And there is no need for me to name games because I was not defending the xbox. I didn\'t even mention xbox. And why should I go out my way to name games on xbox like ms has me in there pocket or something. Geesh Ironfist come on dood
Originally posted by Bozco
Why, Quddus has always posted utter crap like that
Why is it crap becase it\'s not praising and worshiping sony? Your the last person on this board that should be talking about crap because you have not said one thing yet on this forum that has any real significance.
Just listen to the post that have been posted here. Some of you act like sony is GOD or something. Geesh it\'s just a console. Some of you are so loyal to sony you would think you get a check every week. And that is funny and sad. That you pledge your allegence to a piece of hardware.
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DirectXbox, I bought a PS2 coz the PSX was a great machine and I didn\'t buy a PS2 at launch, I bought it later...
I did plan to get one long before it was released coz:
1. It had good developer support
2. I knew there would be coming a lot of good games for it.
It was inevitable with all those developers.
3. The graphics was a great bonus
If people bought the PS2 at launch I\'m pretty sure the main reason wasn\'t graphics coz at the time the games didn\'t look substantially better than Dreamcast according to all you PS2 bashers.
And one last thing, I don\'t find it innovative to add a hdd and ethernet adapter to a console, sorry but I just don\'t.
That\'s what I got my PC for, and let me tell you the possibilities aren\'t limitless...
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you telling me with 100 games or more on ps2 that is all you can name. And some of those games you names aren\'t even out yet. And my point was that a lot of sony fanboys like to boast graphics off of a couple of games. Just as you just did.
Please, enlighten me, how do you judge what is good graphics and what is lame graphics? When it all comes down to it, at the end of a system\'s life span, people will remember the greats and people will forget the blunders. Besides that, I already talked about this and said that not every game has to be graphically stunning to be fun and I gave very specific examples of this and yet people ignored them DESPITE those same games being on some of the most wanted lists of the console owners\\soon to be purchasers.
What do you care anyways, you\'re more interested in the number of great games (which now far surpass 20). 20 great games a year at a 5 year life span... that\'s 100 games. 100 games that are worth buying or AT THE VERY LEAST worth renting. That doesn\'t get you the least bit excited? That promise of 100 great games alone is enough to make my PS2 worth the purchase, or even 1/5 of that number. Who cares though, if the graphics suck the games suck, I forgot who I was talking to. :rolleyes:
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.legacyofsorrow.net%2Fmj%2Fthreadgay.jpg&hash=e2810373ae214f13a75b68afc5e5c7476d3f79d3)
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Originally posted by Tshi*ts
1. Graphics
Simply put, the system looks like sh*t
My my, that is a refreshing objective point of view :rolleyes:
Time to stop playing this troll\'s game, which is; pee in the pot and watch all those offended come dance around. In the meantime the asinine title of this thread stays at the top of the forum for days.
Locking this thread would not be a bad idea.
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nah, let all the members see how lame the original maker of this thread is
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Or how much of a ruckus he has caused......
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ruckus?
if only ONE member here thought to himself. "YES!, HES RIGHT, THE PS2 DOES NOT STAND A CHANCE!"
then yer time *might* have been worthwhile, but as it stands, yer reputation got even worse than it pitifullyl was
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Originally posted by mm
ruckus?
then yer time *might* have been worthwhile, but as it stands, yer reputation got even worse than it pitifully was
Man guess you put him in his place?
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Maybe if we pretend to agree with the little ass-stain, he\'ll go away...
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Yeah, maybe that will work...
I think PS2 fanboys have an inferiority complex where they can\'t deal with owning the weakest console in the generation. They\'re just not used to being third-rate citizens. Well, there\'s a first time for everything. ;)
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Originally posted by DirectXbox
Yeah, maybe that will work...
I think PS2 fanboys have an inferiority complex where they can\'t deal with owning the weakest console in the generation. They\'re just not used to being third-rate citizens. Well, there\'s a first time for everything. ;)
:laughing: lmao that was the funniest damn thing I ever heard.
Is your life that boring to sign up to a PS2 forum site then diss it.:eek:Wow interesting life can I have your autograph?
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weakest console in the generation.
sigh, why do these kids act like the PS2 is coming out the same day, and NOT 1.5 years ago?
the xbox SHOULD be more powerful, but it doesnt appear that way from the launch titles does it?
i just suppose that when mommy and daddy wont buy tshirts, or directxbox a PS2 for xmas, jealousy turns to hate
i find it amusing, how they call US the baised ones.
the xbox forums must be pretty lame as usual, they have to troll here
tired of waiting for tony hawk 2x huh?
/me goes back to online THPS 3 :)
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Why are we comparing first gen titles to second gen titles? If this was already brought up in this thread I am sorry but I can\'t read these endless arguments anymore.
Ace
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and they have had "how long" to get these games in preperation? no excuse!
ok, to kill any insults you xbox sheep have inside yer mind
*cough*
[size=36]I AM BUYING AN XBOX![/size]
like hell, ill pay micro$oft full price for it, but how else can i continue my favorite game of all time Shenmue?
ill just wait till some dumb parent buys it for thier dumber kid, cause he\'s whining he wants the xbox cause he saw this "kewl" commercial for it, that didnt show ANY gameplay or screenshots. but then he realized he wanted a kiddie cube instead, so the "dumb" parent will be forced to make a trip to funcoland [ie. videogameland of ignorant bliss]. so all in all, my friend that works there [for the discount, and to mock [dumb] parents] will call me and sell me my xbox at a HUGE discount. phew!
so, flame all ya want xbox zealots
ya got no fuel, kids
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mm,
This freakish attitude towards the XBox all stems from a hatred of Microsoft. Am I right? If it is, explain to me what happened that has a lot of you guys in a tizzy.
Ace
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Originally posted by DirectXbox
Yeah, maybe that will work...
I think PS2 fanboys have an inferiority complex where they can\'t deal with owning the weakest console in the generation. They\'re just not used to being third-rate citizens. Well, there\'s a first time for everything. ;)
I think XBox fanboys have a superiority complex where they think their console is a lot better than it truly is. They are in-denial because the PS2, despite being a technologically inferior console, matches the XBox step for step graphically and has much better games to boot. They don\'t seem to realize that great games can be made without ridiculous power. They are not true gamers. They are stat whores and power junkies. They have a case of technological penis-envy and they want to tell everyone about it.
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lol, look up "antitrust" in the dictionary, and you will see my beef with microsoft
noone sees me on the xbox forums spouting how good the PS3 will be
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Weltall,
You took the words right out of my mouth. Having a more powerful console doesn\'t make you any more of a man, xbox whores. Thanks for saving me the time Wel. :)
-- dm --
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You have to be kidding me? You\'re a crusader against MS?
Microsoft and Bill Gates have done what any other company would love to do. And that is be number one. When someone out there makes a better mouse trap everyone will buy it. Not to buy the XBox because of your concern about antitrust laws is laughable.
Ace
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laugh all you want, i give AS LITTLE money as possible to "big brother", i mean microsoft. thats why i wont pay full price for a xbox. sega is the ONLY company that truly deserves money in the console world, and look what happened to them.
When someone out there makes a better mouse trap everyone will buy it.
you better check yer history, if you think bill gates "made" anything.
better? what is a microsoft OS better than?
look at 95% of the major web sites out there. you think they run windows NT? pfffft. unix and linux put it to misery in stability AND security. shame that they take more brainpower to operate, oops!
bill gates stole EVERYTHING from steve jobs, IBM, and intel to form his business, and created a STRANGLEHOLD on the world\'s PC industry. if he can do the same with the console market, he will.
ask Novell who stepped in to help them out
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I can\'t tell who is the bigger whore. The fact that you all of spent time replying to everything he said in your own fanboyish ways. On top of his it is just too hard to tell you gives it up more.
I should put you all on a corner and make me some money:D
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Look,
I really don\'t want to get into a pissing war about what is better and who invented what. I never reply to these threads about which system is better because the arguments are mostly based on emotion.
But . . .
Not liking MS products is one thing, not to buy them because you believe that MS does not have the intellectual rights to do so is another. Bill Gates might not have invented the OS but he marketed and created a need for his products. I don\'t think he held a gun to anyone\'s head to buy his products, although I am sure you will debate that. Sony did not invent video games but I sure as hell enjoy using their system.
You may not believe this but I am not a "fanboy" of any system. Hell, I did not even know what the word meant until I started coming around here. I get excited when a new system is announced and if the system looks good to me I buy the thing.
I love Sega products myself and I was depressed that they decided not to continue producing systems, but they shot themselves in the foot. If Bill Gates screws up, the XBox will be right beside the 3DO and Jaguar in the museum of videogame disasters.
I look at the clock and it is almost five in the morning and I need to go to work. In the words of the great philosopher Rodney King, "Can\'t we all just get along?"
Ace
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yeah, we cool as always
i just have zero respect for bill gates
the only thing he ever did worthy in my eyes, was donate 100 million $ to the afro american collegiate fund, but it was a tax write-off, so moot point
i dont know why these kids are so quick to assume that im a sony "fanboy", whatever that means
anyone whos spent any time here, knows i support a multiconsole market, just not a nintendo one. they should stick to handhelds, perhaps then they will learn to use a backlit screen like sega did 6 years ago
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OH MY EFFING GOD!!!!!
It took me forever to read all those posts.
You all wasted about 30 minutes of my life.
ARGH!:evil:
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That\'s why I don\'t read all of the posts. I just reply to the last one or two. ;)
Ace
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaskguys.com%2F%257Epics%2Fdowninflames.jpg&hash=0ac69b71b65713571b58933fe201099f9496cfd6)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaskguys.com%2F%257Epics%2Fdowninflames.jpg&hash=0ac69b71b65713571b58933fe201099f9496cfd6)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaskguys.com%2F%257Epics%2Fdowninflames.jpg&hash=0ac69b71b65713571b58933fe201099f9496cfd6)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.legacyofsorrow.net%2Fmj%2Fthreadgay.jpg&hash=e2810373ae214f13a75b68afc5e5c7476d3f79d3)
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I agree Bossieman this has been the most awful display on ps2 and xbox zombies I have ever seen. Nobody in this thread can say nothin ever about the other you all have proven to be fanboys.
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Quddus:
You never even answered my reply Quddus and then you walk away as if you are the all-knowing big wig at this forum? Heh, that has to be the funniest part of this thread by far.
Bossieman:
I\'m getting sick and tired of those pictures. When you post them once in a thread with a comment, that\'s fine, but multiple times... it\'s pretty lame. If you have nothing constructive to add, then please, have one of these:
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fryu.lewsers.com%2Fstfu.jpg&hash=a58a2bbd8174cb980ecdb1ce168387fe649ba6df)
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Originally posted by Ryu
Bossieman:
I\'m getting sick and tired of those pictures.
I know but this kind of topics are really lame, We have seen this kind of topics for years and there cant be any new interesting stuff until the xbox and GC have been released.
I´m actually very sick of this kind of topics, sorry but i don´t know what to say, maybe I am just bored :fro:
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bla
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T shirts are you as dumb as your name sounds beacuse you have just proved it to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:laughing: :D :laughing:
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sega is the ONLY company that truly deserves money in the console world, and look what happened to them.
They went third party and became heaping piles of crap?
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Originally posted by M4
They went third party and became heaping piles of crap?
:laughing: I just don\'t know why Sega can\'t stay up with the other consoles. OMG I said "stay up":eek: anyway why does Sega suck so bad?
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Ask AlteredBeast.
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please dont put "sega" and "suck" i the same sentence, you attrack the wrath of clyde
sega = innovators
thats why they were always doomed to fail, and companies like sony and nintendo have built an empire
sigh
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Originally posted by mm
please dont put "sega" and "suck" i the same sentence, you attrack the wrath of clyde
sega = innovators
thats why they were always doomed to fail, and companies like sony and nintendo have built an empire
sigh
I love Shenmue and Nozomi.
Shenmue = The greatest (and innovative) franchise, ever.
Sega doesn\'t suck.
Oops, I put "Sega" and "Suck" in the same sentence.
:nut:
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Originally posted by Ashford
I love Shenmue
Shenmue = The greatest (and innovative) franchise, ever.
:nut:
How???, IMO that game is the most overated game EVER, its just so damn boring
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Originally posted by Bozco
How???, IMO that game is the most overated game EVER, its just so damn boring
One man\'s meat is another man\'s poison.
I could say the same thing about Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Gran Turismo, blah blah blah... AND I WILL... Those games are way overrated. :yawn:
I love Shenmue for the way the graphics, from the opening cinema all the way to the ending credits, draw me in.
I love it for its uniqueness and innovation.
I love how its as close to real life as a game could get.
I love how the story unfolds piece by piece as I get deeper into the game, especially Disc 3.
I love the QTE\'s and Free Battles, the complete versions of Space Harrier, Hang On, and other mini-games.
Does this answer your question?
:fro: :fro: :fro:
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I\'ll respect your opinion, but I\'ll still think it blows chunks
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Yeah it\'s boring.... Just a loooooong cutscene.
It seemed really good at first.
It\'s got a compelling story but the gameplay, or should I say lack of it, turned me off the game.
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This thread is one of the reasons I hardly ever come to this part of the forum.
This thread was started by a huge fanboy to Sony fanboys that their console is doomed. Great, good job, guy. Thanks for yer opinion. Anyone who posts a thread stating anything remotely close to, "The console I like will kill your console" is, you guessed it... A FANBOY!! This is especially true in the case of a console that has not even been released yet.
And Quddus, your replies are pure crap. Utter nonsense. If you post in support of a thread, it is sure to be the nail in the coffin of the person who started the conversation.
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The transcendent.
This is the constant factor. It is unchanging. Whatever course the industry takes, it will partake in this factor - in order for any company to lead the industry, it must transcend it.
The "history of consoles" established this asserton. The Atari 2600 was the first commericialized console. The Nes was the first Japanese made console to offer games that strayed from the usual genre. The Sega Genesis was the first console to offer perfect arcade-like graphics and gameplay. The PSX was the first console to fully utilize a 3D world. Every other console that failed to be the first to transcend or revolutionize the industry - Saturn, Master System, 32X, Sega CD, 3DO, Jaguar, N64 - never capitilized on it.
The wavering support.
The quick fluctuation of support on the PS2 by such companies like Konami, Square, EA, and Namco is surely not a good sign. It took the Sega Genesis 4 years to draw the support of Capcom and SF2. It took the PSX 3 years to garner Square and FF7. It took the Xbox and GC 1 day to nab all of the top support from the PS2. This divergence is a scary thought when you take into consideration how quick and easy it was to careen. If the GC and Xbox can do this much damage on day one, imagine the kind of damage it can do in a year or two.
The huge disparity in graphics.
GT3 and Metal Gear Solid 2 are arguably the top graphical franchises for the system. These two games should be fairly contrasted to the top games of the two opposing systems. When you do a comparison, it is not accurate to compare the raw power of the consoles. The developemental process and the raw power should be the means for an accurate comparison. note: If we don\'t do that then the Saturn is technically just as powerful as the PSX - with games like Grandia and VF2 which not only matches but surpasses some of the top graphical franchises on the PSX. If we take Metal Gear Solid 2 and GT3 into comparison with DOA3 and Luigi\'s Mansion, we won\'t see much of a graphical leap, but if you delve deeper into the developemental process, you will see a stark contrast. GT3 and Metal Gear Solid have already been in developement a little prior to the PS2 launch. *Technically* both titles have already been in developement for 3 years. Both Luigi\'s Mansion and DOA3 have been in developement for no less than 2 years. With this assertion, the ratio in consideration of the graphical mean and the developemental process for each opposing systems is, give or take, 1.75:3.5. The PS2 is *technically* almost 2 times less powerful than the GC and Xbox. This should be constant because it is the controlled factor. Of course, through time, the developers will have a better grasp on the PS2 and the graphics will be better, but the same can be said of the Xbox GC thus the constant factor cannot be changed in anyway unless if any of the systems ceased production.
The PS2 will be the least powerful console with the *worse* graphics;The wavering support will hurt the system in the long run; And the PS2\'s inability to transcend the industry forward will forbade it to lead. You might not see it now because of the fresh start of both the GC and Xbox, but the future paints a bleak picture for the PS2 and there is little chance it will be the leader this time around.
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My God!!!!! SHUT UP!
Must we prove you wrong again... Grrrrr..
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Originally posted by Tshirts
The transcendent.
This is the constant factor. It is unchanging. Whatever course the industry takes, it will partake in this factor - in order for any company to lead the industry, it must transcend it.
The "history of consoles" established this asserton. The Atari 2600 was the first commericialized console. The Nes was the first Japanese made console to offer games that strayed from the usual genre. The Sega Genesis was the first console to offer perfect arcade-like graphics and gameplay. The PSX was the first console to fully utilize a 3D world. Every other console that failed to be the first to transcend or revolutionize the industry - Saturn, Master System, 32X, Sega CD, 3DO, Jaguar, N64 - never capitilized on it.
The wavering support.
The quick fluctuation of support on the PS2 by such companies like Konami, Square, EA, and Namco is surely not a good sign. It took the Sega Genesis 4 years to draw the support of Capcom and SF2. It took the PSX 3 years to garner Square and FF7. It took the Xbox and GC 1 day to nab all of the top support from the PS2. This divergence is a scary thought when you take into consideration how quick and easy it was to careen. If the GC and Xbox can do this much damage on day one, imagine the kind of damage it can do in a year or two.
The huge disparity in graphics.
GT3 and Metal Gear Solid 2 are arguably the top graphical franchises for the system. These two games should be fairly contrasted to the top games of the two opposing systems. When you do a comparison, it is not accurate to compare the raw power of the consoles. The developemental process and the raw power should be the means for an accurate comparison. note: If we don\'t do that then the Saturn is technically just as powerful as the PSX - with games like Grandia and VF2 which not only matches but surpasses some of the top graphical franchises on the PSX. If we take Metal Gear Solid 2 and GT3 into comparison with DOA3 and Luigi\'s Mansion, we won\'t see much of a graphical leap, but if you delve deeper into the developemental process, you will see a stark contrast. GT3 and Metal Gear Solid have already been in developement a little prior to the PS2 launch. *Technically* both titles have already been in developement for 3 years. Both Luigi\'s Mansion and DOA3 have been in developement for no less than 2 years. With this assertion, the ratio in consideration of the graphical mean and the developemental process for each opposing systems is, give or take, 1.75:3.5. The PS2 is *technically* almost 2 times less powerful than the GC and Xbox. This should be constant because it is the controlled factor. Of course, through time, the developers will have a better grasp on the PS2 and the graphics will be better, but the same can be said of the Xbox GC thus the constant factor cannot be changed in anyway unless if any of the systems ceased production.
The PS2 will be the least powerful console with the *worse* graphics;The wavering support will hurt the system in the long run; And the PS2\'s inability to transcend the industry forward will forbade it to lead. You might not see it now because of the fresh start of both the GC and Xbox, but the future paints a bleak picture for the PS2 and there is little chance it will be the leader this time around.
After all of that.... I\'m wondering..... XBOX ISN"T EVEN OUT!!! SO YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO WILL WIN, SO SHUT UP!
Settled...:)
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hmmm Lets see, PS1 had better graphics than N64? No.
Who sold more? SONY.
XBOX = poor azz PC, in console wrap
GC = Console, with one task, play gamez.
PS2 = Console, with multi-functionality DVD+Console
There that wasn\'t hard, was it? :D
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The huge disparity in graphics.
GT3 and Metal Gear Solid 2 are arguably the top graphical franchises for the system. These two games should be fairly contrasted to the top games of the two opposing systems. When you do a comparison, it is not accurate to compare the raw power of the consoles. The developemental process and the raw power should be the means for an accurate comparison. note: If we don\'t do that then the Saturn is technically just as powerful as the PSX - with games like Grandia and VF2 which not only matches but surpasses some of the top graphical franchises on the PSX. If we take Metal Gear Solid 2 and GT3 into comparison with DOA3 and Luigi\'s Mansion, we won\'t see much of a graphical leap, but if you delve deeper into the developemental process, you will see a stark contrast. GT3 and Metal Gear Solid have already been in developement a little prior to the PS2 launch. *Technically* both titles have already been in developement for 3 years. Both Luigi\'s Mansion and DOA3 have been in developement for no less than 2 years. With this assertion, the ratio in consideration of the graphical mean and the developemental process for each opposing systems is, give or take, 1.75:3.5. The PS2 is *technically* almost 2 times less powerful than the GC and Xbox. This should be constant because it is the controlled factor. Of course, through time, the developers will have a better grasp on the PS2 and the graphics will be better, but the same can be said of the Xbox GC thus the constant factor cannot be changed in anyway unless if any of the systems ceased production.
The PS2 will be the least powerful console with the *worse* graphics;The wavering support will hurt the system in the long run; And the PS2\'s inability to transcend the industry forward will forbade it to lead. You might not see it now because of the fresh start of both the GC and Xbox, but the future paints a bleak picture for the PS2 and there is little chance it will be the leader this time around.
LMAO, you don\'t know when to give up do you? As I take it your a Graphic whore? Well reading your post, with much apraise.:rolleyes:
PS2 will have the "worst" graphics this generation? I\'m sorry, but Jax and Daxter looks better then most games these Xbox games, oh with maybe the exception of Halo. You think MS is going to have a huge user base like Sony in less then a year? Not likely, but it anything can happen, but your post, is filled with flaws, mostly from a standpoint that PS2 doesn\'t transend the industry? Well neither does Xbox, all Xbox is bringing to the table is a powerful console, but, the games are very lacking, people are calling DOA3 the best fighter of all time, well, thats debatable, because DOA3 is far from perfect, and like Ryu said, its pretty much DOA2 with a pretty bow, doesn\'t bring anything to the table gameplay wise. PS2 is graphically inferior? Um, not really mr Tshirts, I\'m sorry, but this is one of the worst posts, next to your PS2 won\'t stand a chance, please come back when you can actually talk with out taking words out of your ass. You should think that, PS2 doesn\'t have the graphical ability to stand a chance this generation? Well its already looking like Sony stands a chance in the graphics department also. I\'ll take Gran Turismo 3 over DOA3 anyway, even though i depise GT3, it still brings alot more to the table graphically and gameplay wise, DOA3 just offers us pretty graphics, with no added gameplay value. Please do not compare different Genres, LM, is nothing like MGS2, and so forth. Good bye, I\'m afraid your post is rather worthless.
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Sigh, fool, allow me to retort.
The transcendent.
This is the constant factor. It is unchanging. Whatever course the industry takes, it will partake in this factor - in order for any company to lead the industry, it must transcend it.
The "history of consoles" established this asserton. The Atari 2600 was the first commericialized console. The Nes was the first Japanese made console to offer games that strayed from the usual genre. The Sega Genesis was the first console to offer perfect arcade-like graphics and gameplay. The PSX was the first console to fully utilize a 3D world. Every other console that failed to be the first to transcend or revolutionize the industry - Saturn, Master System, 32X, Sega CD, 3DO, Jaguar, N64 - never capitilized on it.
What basis do you have that the XBox will TRANSCEND the industry? What are the ground breaking ideas that MS had, that others don\'t have already? The fact that it has a hard drive? The fact that it will have broadband support? Hmmm, great points. Do you forget that the PS2 will have the same things? In fact, the PS2 will have a BIGGER, BETTER hard drive than the XBox. As for broadband, the XBox will not even be able to use its capabilities for some time. If you are thinking, "Well, you can use the modem if you have your own ISP", well, there again, so can the PS2. Oh wait, maybe you think its transcending because MS has never done a console before. Hmmm, wrong again. Just because they have never done a console before, doesn\'t make them pioneers in the industry.
Oh, yeah you\'re right, XBox can play DVD\'s! Ohhhh, but you need to spend 30 bucks to buy a remote, just so you can watch \'em. Sorry, pal, hope you like getting ripped like that, \'cause after all, we ARE dealing with Microsoft. All the capabilities that the PS2 actually transcended the industry with that MS is COPYING, it was capable of doing right out of the box.
Ways PS2 transcended the industry:
It was the first to offer DVD support.
Full pressure sensitive control support.
USB support.
iLink support.
They even took the step of breaking out and calling it a "computer entertainment" system, rather than a video game system.
Everything on the XBox was designed to do something better than the PS2. To me, that isn\'t transcending, that\'s copying and trying to make it SEEM transcending.
The wavering support.
The quick fluctuation of support on the PS2 by such companies like Konami, Square, EA, and Namco is surely not a good sign. It took the Sega Genesis 4 years to draw the support of Capcom and SF2. It took the PSX 3 years to garner Square and FF7. It took the Xbox and GC 1 day to nab all of the top support from the PS2. This divergence is a scary thought when you take into consideration how quick and easy it was to careen. If the GC and Xbox can do this much damage on day one, imagine the kind of damage it can do in a year or two
There again, you are quite wrong. It seems to me, rather than wavering support, that companies have finally realized how much money they are losing when it comes to supporting new consoles. Know how much money Capcom lost snubbing the Genesis? Or how much money Square lost not developing for the PSX? No, dumbass, these developers aren\'t wavering at all, they are trying to better their financial standing. Something you know little of, sitting in front of your computer, using mommy and daddy\'s money for the ISP who provides you with the resources to type this bile. Yeah, there are a few games, but the majority of these companies you have stated will support ALL consoles, not just your XBox.
The huge disparity in graphics.
GT3 and Metal Gear Solid 2 are arguably the top graphical franchises for the system. These two games should be fairly contrasted to the top games of the two opposing systems. When you do a comparison, it is not accurate to compare the raw power of the consoles. The developemental process and the raw power should be the means for an accurate comparison. note: If we don\'t do that then the Saturn is technically just as powerful as the PSX - with games like Grandia and VF2 which not only matches but surpasses some of the top graphical franchises on the PSX. If we take Metal Gear Solid 2 and GT3 into comparison with DOA3 and Luigi\'s Mansion, we won\'t see much of a graphical leap, but if you delve deeper into the developemental process, you will see a stark contrast. GT3 and Metal Gear Solid have already been in developement a little prior to the PS2 launch. *Technically* both titles have already been in developement for 3 years. Both Luigi\'s Mansion and DOA3 have been in developement for no less than 2 years. With this assertion, the ratio in consideration of the graphical mean and the developemental process for each opposing systems is, give or take, 1.75:3.5. The PS2 is *technically* almost 2 times less powerful than the GC and Xbox. This should be constant because it is the controlled factor. Of course, through time, the developers will have a better grasp on the PS2 and the graphics will be better, but the same can be said of the Xbox GC thus the constant factor cannot be changed in anyway unless if any of the systems ceased production.
Ahh, you found a way to try and explain away some of the points people will undoubtably bring up against your "PS2 graphics SUCK!" statement. Yeah, I\'m real concerned about HOW developers get their job done, as long as they keep giving us the goods. Telling people raw power doesn\'t count is a weak and evasive argument.
When you say that games like MGS2 and GT3 have been in developmental stages way longer than games like Luigi and DOA3, could it be that they have been taking that long, not because of graphics, but because of the scope, level of detail and all-out HUGENESS of these titles? You are taking two game made by arguably two of the biggest perfectionists in the industry and stacking them up against shallow graphic-displaying-grab-the-whore games. NO comparison, boy. The scope and breadth of these games ALONE will eclipse anything realeased on launch day by either console, and that is what I\'m gonna buy MGS2 for, even though the graphics are reeeal sweet too.
Why didn\'t you bring up DMC? Oh, yeah, cause it was developed as long as either of the two examples given above and can definitely give them a run for their money, graphics-wise.
And as far as VF2 and Grandia surpassing the tops of PSX graphics, I\'d like you to site some examples of what you think the best graphical games of the PSX are, and why those two would beat them.
Your posts are funny. The whole time you sit there and say, "You guys are fanboys and graphics whores! Just look at the XBox\'s graphics and how the XBox brings life to the dead and walks on water, while feeding multitudes and flying around the earth so fast that it reverses time!"
I wish you could step out of your little world and see yourself for the hipocrite you really are.
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JerginSoft already did a fine job of tearing his reply up, but I love responding to this kind of stuff regardless. So here comes by 2 cents...
The "history of consoles" established this asserton. The Atari 2600 was the first commericialized console. The Nes was the first Japanese made console to offer games that strayed from the usual genre. The Sega Genesis was the first console to offer perfect arcade-like graphics and gameplay. The PSX was the first console to fully utilize a 3D world. Every other console that failed to be the first to transcend or revolutionize the industry - Saturn, Master System, 32X, Sega CD, 3DO, Jaguar, N64 - never capitilized on it.
The Dreamcast was the first ever console to include analog buttons into its controller. It was also the first console to have a built in miniature mionitor in its controller that allowed you to monitor health or play mini games, it was called the VMU in case you forgot. The Dreamcast was also the first console to go fully online with its own ISP allowing you to go head to head with other DC owners as well as surf the web. Let\'s also not forget that the DC was the first to offer Broadband support for its console a year after its release.
What is Sega doing with their DC now? Dropping the price to get rid of the already large amount of units collecting dust in their warehouses and selling off their first party titles to the highest bidder. What have we learned today children? That consoles that one-up previous generations in so many ways do not always succeed regardless of its greatness.
The quick fluctuation of support on the PS2 by such companies like Konami, Square, EA, and Namco is surely not a good sign. It took the Sega Genesis 4 years to draw the support of Capcom and SF2. It took the PSX 3 years to garner Square and FF7. It took the Xbox and GC 1 day to nab all of the top support from the PS2. This divergence is a scary thought when you take into consideration how quick and easy it was to careen. If the GC and Xbox can do this much damage on day one, imagine the kind of damage it can do in a year or two.
Konami is supporting all consoles. Squaresoft wants to make money off of a fully online game and will make more with a larger userbase (which is why its SINGLE game is going to multiple platforms), EA has always been a multi console supporter, and Namco has as well. I\'m sure you can name more companies, but I think your issue is large franchise titles, which will most likely be hitting the PS2 before it goes anywhere else...
As for the Genesis, lets not forget that Nintendo has a massive stranglehold on the industry with the NES and lots of contracts. Only when those contracts were over (4 years into the Genesis\' lifespan) did they finally get certain companies. Alteredbeast, our resident Sega affiliate will tell you that. The PSX grabbed FF7 a year after its US release and 2 years after its Japanese release. In the time that they grabbed the game, they had to start development over from the N64, which took about two years of development time. Finally, 1 day for the GC\\X-Box? You mean a lot of these things HAPPENED on the same day because these negotiations and talks have been going on for a long time now and in the end, it\'s going to take a massive load of cash to certify these games on any platform. It just matters which company is willing to go the extra million.
The problem with your assumptions that the past has serious effects on the future is that there has never been a situation where all three consoles had distinct advantages\\disadvantages. The PS2 has a huge userbase, Nintendo has great first party support, and Microsoft has a ton of cash and the most powerful console. All three things basically even eachother out in the long run and this console war will be just as close as the Genesis\\SNES one. I just hope that the games used to fight this war are both plentiful and great like they were then.
The PS2 will be the least powerful console with the *worse* graphics;The wavering support will hurt the system in the long run; And the PS2\'s inability to transcend the industry forward will forbade it to lead. You might not see it now because of the fresh start of both the GC and Xbox, but the future paints a bleak picture for the PS2 and there is little chance it will be the leader this time around.
How does the X-Box transend the industry? As JerginSoft listed, there are many things that the PS2 and the DC did that the X-Box is now just FOLLOWING up on. Lets also not forget that the GC is just a videogame system. It does nothing more then play games, but it\'s innovations still outnumber the X-Box both with hidden buttons embedded in their L and R triggers along with GBA\\GCN connectivity. If you consider a feature that has already been offered in a different form that is now built in, to be transcending, then you are sadly mistaken.
Graphics make not a console great. Those same developers you listed above are the same ones who say that the X-Box, GCN, and PS2 are only SLIGHTLY different in terms of power. These are the people making the games and using the dev kits as well, their words are practically gospell to the stuff you THEORIZE about. I don\'t have a problem with you TShirts, I just have a problem with the flawed logic you use to back up your points. It just makes you look... like a fool.
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Originally posted by Toxical
XBOX = poor azz PC, in console wrap
]
I don\'t agree with T-Shirts but at the same time I don\'t agree with this, I think it is quite ignorant to say that, so what are your reasons for saying it?
Oh and just because it is made by microsoft doesn\'t mean its a cheap azz pc
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indeed
cheep azz PC = gateway
*shudder*
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Originally posted by mm
indeed
cheep azz PC = gateway
*shudder*
I have a Gateway PC.
:fro: :fro: :fro:
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my heart and sympathy go out to you
hopefully, is the "family pc" and you dont have any other choice
:)
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Originally posted by mm
my heart and sympathy go out to you
hopefully, is the "family pc" and you dont have any other choice
:)
Actually, I paid for it all by myself. And I\'m the only one who uses it and I don\'t have any other choice, either.
:fro: :fro: :fro:
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Look i might just kick this thing all off again but............
T Shirt the Stupid Mo Fooooooo
has long since gone and where are still argeuing over it :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
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A point I\'ll argue: the PSX did indeed have better graphics than the N64. Performance was better too. Low res, foggy environments etc made the N64 the worst console in the generation (and I\'m even counting Saturn). It made it through by brand loyalty.
All this talk of the demise of the PS2 is laughable really. The PS2 isn\'t going anywhere, anytime soon. It\'s userbase is too large.
I do think that in year 4 or 5, one of the new consoles will either be fighting for the userbase lead or ahead, but that\'s so far into the future that it won\'t really matter. The SNES caught the genesis eventually, but by the time it did both companies were ready to move on (although N did stick it out for a year or so longer).