PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: rastalant on November 06, 2001, 10:47:44 AM
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http://cube.ign.com/
Uhhhhhhh........wasn\'t the ps2 version of madden and ssx tricky both 60fps!?!?!?! This is a joke? I mean a first gen ps2 titles madden 2001 was 60fps!?!? The xbox version 60fps as well.........Come on GC!!!!!!! They can\'t keep a constant framerate? What\'s up with that?????
:thepimp: :thepimp: :thepimp: :thepimp:
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Surly that has got to be an early build? isn\'t it!
That is not very good at all, all i can think is that the had trouble porting the game over to GC.:(
But i am going to see the game running first before i say anymorr.
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SSX for PS2 at launch was also 30fps. SSX Tricky will be 60.
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That is the problem porting from the PS2 to any other console or from any console to the PS2. They are too different to just do a port.
I think the bigger problem is this though:
The only barrier you have to get over is the control. There\'s no hiding it, SSX control was designed for the PlayStation 2. Porting the franchise to the GameCube controller was undoubtedly the development team\'s biggest hurdle to jump.
Yes, this game was built for the PS2, but it still is going to hurt the game. I wonder what other games will have wierd controls because of the different button layout...
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So?
Xbox cant keep a constant framerate with Halo :thepimp: :thepimp:
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Originally posted by fastson
So?
Xbox cant keep a constant framerate with Halo :thepimp: :thepimp:
I think the graphics in HALO are a little more taxing to a system than Madden though. Be fair.
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Originally posted by fastson
So?
Xbox cant keep a constant framerate with Halo :thepimp: :thepimp:
Wave race runs at 30 fps too. And Devil May Cry\'s framerate dips when there are 12 enemies on the screen and their are explosions and bodies blowing up all over. GTA3\'s framerate dips when in a really fast car or while lots of things are on screen. This framerate issue is stupid. All three consoles have areas where improvement is needed. If framerate is still a problem in two years from now, then you can start making fun of consoles. But until then, leave the framerate out of it. :)
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30 fps, 60 fps... That doesn\'t mean anything. At that speed, you\'re simply not counting frames.
What does matter is consistency. You will notice if the fps takes a dive at any given moment. So 30 or 60 doesn\'t really matter (to me, anyway), what\'s important is consistency. I can\'t count individual frames in a second, but I get irritated for sure whenever there\'s slow-down.
-Eik
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30 fps, 60 fps... That doesn\'t mean anything. At that speed, you\'re simply not counting frames.
Major BS. Sorry pal, but there is a huge difference between a constant 30fps and a constant 60fps. Madden @ 30fps is a huge downgrade considering how silky smooth the movements are. People who continue to believe that 60 is no better than 30 should get over it. There is a major difference.
Seven,
SSX for the PS2 ran @ 60fps for the PS2, but bogged down to 30 often. Which seems to be the case for the GC version, at this time.
/ dm /
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Originally posted by seven
SSX for PS2 at launch was also 30fps. SSX Tricky will be 60.
Believe it or not SSX was actual 60fps but had alot of framerate dips. Madden 2001 and 2002 on ps2 were both a silky smooth 60fps. So why not the GC version?
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Sorry to change topics ever so slightly, but can someone who is technologically minded, explain why games are programmed with the target of 60 fps, when a 60 Hz T.V. is supposed to only be able to display 30 fps?
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Originally posted by Zavijava
Sorry to change topics ever so slightly, but can someone who is technologically minded, explain why games are programmed with the target of 60 fps, when a 60 Hz T.V. is supposed to only be able to display 30 fps?
I think you can figure that one out for yourself. GO play a fast-paced game that is 60 fps (i.e. Twisted Metal Black), then play a fast-paced game that\'s 30 fps (i.e. Twisted Metal 3). Maybe those aren\'t the best examples because of how bad TM3 sucked, but you get the idea. It is noticable when a fast-paced game runs at 30 fps. But slow paced games aren\'t that noticable (like ICO. Even after playing it, I didn\'t know that was 30 fps until I read about it on the internet.)
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Let me rephrase my question: If a game is not utilizing VGA support, and is being primarily displayed on a 60 hz T.V. (which apparently can only support 30 fps), why would games be programmed for 60 fps when seemingly only 30 is being displayed? I would just like a simplified overview of how this is possible.:)
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Believe it or not SSX was actual 60fps but had alot of framerate dips. Madden 2001 and 2002 on ps2 were both a silky smooth 60fps. So why not the GC version?
okay, yeah you\'re right. I thought I read at IGN that it was running at 30fps, but now that I reread the review, it\'s 60fps alright. Yeah cool :) Thanks Rastalant.
Let me rephrase my question: If a game is not utilizing VGA support, and is being primarily displayed on a 60 hz T.V. (which apparently can only support 30 fps), why would games be programmed for 60 fps when seemingly only 30 is being displayed? I would just like a simplified overview of how this is possible.
Hi Zavijava,
A 60 Hz TV displays 30 fps, but that\'s only for every half picture. The TV uses some kind of interlaced mode that sends out first every second line of the picture and then goes through again, reading the lines in between. Through this method, the TV doesn\'t flicker that much (still noticable at 60 Hz though). Now, 30 fps only stands for one half picture (or first loop). If you take the full picture, then the framerate would be 60 fps - or on a PAL TV 50 fps. I hope this answers your question. :)
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A 60 Hz TV displays 30 fps, but that\'s only for every half picture. The TV uses some kind of interlaced mode that sends out first every second line of the picture and then goes through again, reading the lines in between. Through this method, the TV doesn\'t flicker that much (still noticable at 60 Hz though). Now, 30 fps only stands for one half picture (or first loop). If you take the full picture, then the framerate would be 60 fps - or on a PAL TV 50 fps. I hope this answers your question. :) [/B]
thanks,
I thought that might be the answer, but wasn\'t completely sure.
But, in an interlaced mode, would not each "loop/cycle" be dependent of each other to create one true frame. If this is the case, wouldn\'t it be somewhat misleading labelling a game 60 fps, when it would be 60 interlaced half-frames to create 30 complete frames? Does this make sense, or am I not understanding this correctly?
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taken from igncube
"Correction: IGNcube had previously noted that Madden runs at 30 frames per second, which is entirely untrue. The game runs at a fluid 60 frames per second with no problems whatsoever. We apologize for the misprint."
http://cube.ign.com/news/39661.html
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Originally posted by fastson
So?
Xbox cant keep a constant framerate with Halo :thepimp: :thepimp:
Have you seen how much goes on in Halo? and have you read about the framerate, people say it is really smooth, and can\'t believe that it runs at 30fps, it feels more like 60fps!
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Have you seen how much goes on in Halo? and have you read about the framerate, people say it is really smooth, and can\'t believe that it runs at 30fps, it feels more like 60fps!
I saw Halo @ my local EB today. I won\'t share my impressions, but I will say this.
It\'s smooth, but not 60fps smooth. 30 doesn\'t match up to 60 in any possible way. It was smooth though, but could be better. :D
/ dm /
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*AHEM*
Correction: IGNcube had previously noted that Madden runs at 30 frames per second, which is entirely untrue. The game runs at a fluid 60 frames per second with no problems whatsoever. We apologize for the misprint.
:cool:
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Originally posted by Zavijava
in an interlaced mode, would not each "loop/cycle" be dependent of each other to create one true frame. If this is the case, wouldn\'t it be somewhat misleading labelling a game 60 fps, when it would be 60 interlaced half-frames to create 30 complete frames? Does this make sense, or am I not understanding this correctly?
What you said here is CORRECT. I think most people out there don\'t understand how NTSC tvs work, which leads to this confusion and arguments about framerates. NTSC TVs run at 30 FRAMES per second, with each frame being made out of 2 FIELDS. A field is half of a still image, comprising only the odd or even numbered rows of pixels. Thus, it\'s 30 frames per second, or 60 fields per second.
There\'s no reason for a game console to generate more than 30 discrete still images per second because they cannot be displayed on an NTSC tv. If the console can output progressive video, and the TV can display progressive video, then you could possibly achieve 60 frames per second, but the PS2 doesn\'t support that, and the vast majority of TVs in the US don\'t either.
I think when you talk about games like SSX slowing down, what you\'re actually seeing is a game running at 30 frames per second, then slowing down to 15-20 frames per second.
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Thanks for the feedback Coredweller.
I\'d like to continue some thoughts on this further, but a 12 hour work day places heavy emphasis on the restorative necessity to sleep.
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Not sure on the framerate thing. But on my TV my DC running NFL2K2 looks much sharper with my VGA in than Madden 2001 with component video in. Oh well 480P rocks. :)
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I do not understand what the h e double hockeysticks framerates are can someone tell me?
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Thank you Coredweller for relieving a little of my tension here. Some of you guys have no idea what the hell you are talking about.
What he wrote is right. there are 2 fields per frame. There are actually 29.97 frames per second.
I think maybe when they produce 60 Frames per second that they use them as fields. In my show that I produce we have animations. Each field progresses the animation. Our original animation was rendered 1-3-2-4-3-5-4-6..... It was whacked and jumpy. But when each field pushed the animation forward (ie, 1.2.3.4.5.6.) it worked.
Personally I think it\'s a pile of crap that you can tell the difference between 30 and 60 FPS. I think that when you can tell the difference is when it dips below 30. Then you have repeated frames and you will definitely notice it. You simply can\'t possibly tell if the game produces over 30 if all it will display is 30.
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Launch software.
It happens, get over it.
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I was trying to do a comparison between PS2\'s and GC\'s Madden\'s and it seems GC\'s look a bit more "sketchy" than the PS2\'s.