PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: AlteredBeast on November 16, 2001, 08:25:22 PM
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http://www.bleem.com
The difference between Sony and Sega? Sega probably would\'ve helped these guys emulate the systems!
****ing electronics giant!
Eric Jacob
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Woooohooooooooo!! :D
Bleem goes down!
And I wouldn\'t be so sure about that Altered. If Bleem started emulating Sega CD, Saturn, and Dreamcast games for the PS2, Sega would do the same thing.
Oh, and what makes you think that Sony was the cause of this? Maybe it was that the Dreamcast is just about dead and they didn\'t find any reason to continue Bleeming for the Dreamcast.
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I doubt it. Sega is pretty lax. If what the developer is doing amazes them, they let them continue. They didn\'t do anyrhing against EA when they released like 6 games on Genesis without permission. It wouldn\'t hurt them anyway, DC is dead. Anymore game sales that come out of it makes Sega money, not selling brilliant, but underpowered hardware at tons off to the consumer (79.99!!!!!)
Eric Jacob
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They did when Accolade made unauthorized Genny games...
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
They didn\'t do anyrhing against EA when they released like 6 games on Genesis without permission.
How did EA releasing 6 games on the Genesis without permission hurt Sega though? If anything, that would help Sega sell more Genesises. Sure, Sega doesn\'t get the 10% of all sales (or whatever they get from 3rd party sales), but it still would do more good than bad.
It wouldn\'t hurt them anyway, DC is dead.
Exactly. The PSX was not dead. It was very successful. You are bad mouthing Sony for trying to put an end to Bleem when Bleem was actually hurting the sales of PSXs. Of course it wouldn\'t hurt Sega anymore, but back when they were in the hardware business, it would have killed them.
Emulating games that are for systems not manufactured anymore is ok (I think that if there is no other way to play it, it should be emulated so the game is not forgotten), but emulating games that are on a apposing system that is still selling strong is just wrong. And any game company would appose to it if it was hurting their sales; even Sega.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
http://www.bleem.com
The difference between Sony and Sega? Sega probably would\'ve helped these guys emulate the systems!
****ing electronics giant!
Eric Jacob
Your right........ Damn Sony to hell, i want to play games on my PC that i havent payed for !!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:
i mean its ONLY BORDER LINE PIRACY
i mean what ever next ?
:rolleyes:
Microsoft getting a bit uppity about people who Produce Random key generators for Windows XP.
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
http://www.bleem.com
The difference between Sony and Sega? Sega probably would\'ve helped these guys emulate the systems!
****ing electronics giant!
Eric Jacob
:rolleyes:
Well said ooseven
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Sorry i got carried a way
i hate people moaing about emulators and espesually hate people who B!tch when they actually have to pay for something.
Classic Examples of People B!tching in this way
[list=1]
- When they have to pay to pay online
- they want addons and addon disks to be free
- they want the emulator to work and not BUY the Console the game is on.
[/list=1]
:mad: Ggggggggrrrrrrrrrr and don\'t even start me on what i would do with them if ever i faced them in the Street :mad:
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GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
i was so looking forward to playing MGS on my DC
they held on for a long time tho
respect goes out to the bleem employees, you fought the good fight
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It was only a matter of time..
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mm, Bleem! MGS IS out, go to your local Babbages/S etc./EB, etc.
But no ooseven, this isn\'t piracy in any shape, way, or form. bleem! coded their PSX engine from the ground up, not backwards reproducing it. They never allowed copyied game support, I beleive. It still made you buy the original which would increase sales on a console that wasn\'t selling them as much as they would\'ve.
Piracy? do you know what the word means? Piracy is the jackasses that rip music onto Kazaa/Morpheus/mIRC before it is released. Piracy is ripping full version cds and distributing them for free. Piracy is stupid, bleem! wasn\'t.
I can\'t believe some of you ingrates are happy bleem! went under :rolleyes:
Eric Jacob
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Bleem being crushed.. YES! :laughing: :laughing:
;)
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They never allowed copyied game support, I beleive. It still made you buy the original which would increase sales on a console that wasn\'t selling them as much as they would\'ve.
You can use pirated games with Bleem. I\'m glad they\'re gone, and I\'d feel the same way if they emulated any other system.
/ dm /
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Figures, I get a computer good enough to play the damn thing, and they stop making it.
I really did want to play MoH on my comp, since the cleaning-up effect was really weak on PS2!
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
I can\'t believe some of you ingrates are happy bleem! went under :rolleyes:
I still don\'t think you would be acting this way if Bleem was hurting Sega instead of Sony. :rolleyes:
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Sad to see bleem! go. Probably would\'ve had better luck running open-source under Linux.
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I just hope they release their code public so other programmers can tinker with the engine.
Eric Jacob
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Com´n guys... it was a bad emu. ! Only a few games worked and IMO they just jumped on the PSX Train ! Nothing to cry for...
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screw the PC bleem, that thing sucked
BLEEMCAST frickin owned! if you never saw the graphical difference, that the bleemcast was capable of, that you have NO room to talk
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I thought it was bull**** what sega was doing, I\'m glad Sony stopped that, DC was just trying to borrow some sales from the great one
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I\'m happy thy are dead :)
It was overrated anyway, bleem for the PC sucked big time, many games (like tekken 3) actually looked worse, the higher resolution and bi-linear filtering made the blocky models stand out. And I\'m not talking about the framerate (sometimes too fast, other times too slow) And even the sound got all twisted and weird.
Bleem for DC was pretty much vaporware, the games were supposed to come in packs right, along with bleempods and bleempads. I dont know what happened to those, but I\'ve never seen them. Instead you had to buy a seperate emulator for each game
PSX games are supposed to be played on psx, just like snes games. Otherwise they are not as fun for some reason
:confused:
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So basically, the 2 people above me have no idea what they are talking about.
Bozco, do you have any idea what you just said?
"I thought it was bull**** what sega was doing, I\'m glad Sony stopped that, DC was just trying to borrow some sales from the great one"
Sega doesn\'t make bleem!, bleem! does numbskull. Sega didn\'t license bleem! for DC. Man sometimes your ignorance really bothers me. "The Great one" :rolleyes:, thanks SOny for becoming the next NES!!
Eric Jacob
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Metal Gear Ray did a fine job - I feel the same way. I think what Bleem! did was unexeptable and blaming Sony for it is just not right. If Bleem! would have made some emulator of the DC for PS2 (not that it would be possible, because it wouldn\'t), Sega would have sued the crap out of Bleem! aswell - because something like that would be fatal to them. What Sony did is absolutely right and Bleem now suffered the consequences of their actions.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
So basically, the 2 people above me have no idea what they are talking about.
Bozco, do you have any idea what you just said?
"I thought it was bull**** what sega was doing, I\'m glad Sony stopped that, DC was just trying to borrow some sales from the great one"
Sega doesn\'t make bleem!, bleem! does numbskull. Sega didn\'t license bleem! for DC. Man sometimes your ignorance really bothers me. "The Great one" :rolleyes:, thanks SOny for becoming the next NES!!
Eric Jacob
I bet that if it was the other way around (PS2 emulating DC) like others have said you\'d be cheering right about now.
You\'re such a hypocrite and that bothers me.
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I\'m so glad Bleem! Finnaly went down, the\'ve been a pest to Sony for a while now.
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bah, bleemcast = increased sales for GT2, MGS, tekken 3, and the soon to be released FF9 pak
sony makes liscensing fees off EVERY piece of software sold
have a frickin heart guys
bleem consisted of like 6 dudes that took on a MAJOR conglomerate, and in the end, they lost buy court fees
they were ALWAYS legal in what they were doing
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It\'s funny that bleem! lasted so long. I am glad bleem! and Connectix Virtual Gamestation made dents in Sony. Sony just set the lawyers on them, Montgomery Burns style to sue them every time they would try and do something. They were completely legal because they wrote their own code, they never reverse-engineered anything. Kind of reminds me of that movie with Russel Crowe about big tobacco.
I swear the games in 10 years will have to be spoon fed to you babies. We wouldn\'t want to step on any toes. If anything some of you liberals should be commending bleem! for taking on a giant. I am in no way liberal, just not retarded...and I mean that.
Eric Jacob
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damn, altered
why does it seem only you and I seem to fight the "good fight" around here?
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We weren\'t (as my pops would say):
born in a barn!
I love BillyGunn\'s reply. I remember when he pledged his love for PS2 and promised to always defend it. What a lame ass. This guy isn\'t getting any til he is old enough to pay for it in LV. Same with half the nerds around here who are concerned with how well Saintly Sony fights of bastardly! bleem!.
It really sickens me, you know?
The funny thing mm? I have to buy a damn GC now soon to enjoy Monkey Ball! I here it is the surprise (it\'s a Sega game, no surprise here) game of the launch!
Eric Jacob
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Put it up there with Napster.
Fond memories of both.
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come on now, napster was far different
bleemcast didnt come packaged with a free copy of tekken 3, or MGS. nor did it allow you to download either game for free. Bleemcast merely gave you an option to play those SPECIFIC games with better graphics
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Yes, mm and alerd have a poin here. Bleem helped sony in some way but also hurt it in the other. Its a double edged sword.
If bleem was released earlier, it would have had more effect on the sales, both sega and sony would be able to enjoy the fruits from it. :)
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I think it\'s obvious that AlteredBeast needs a lobotomy.
Bleem will prevent one from buying a PSX. Why bother when you can play it on a PC or DC(Bleemcast)? Bleem can play pirated games(if you thought it could not, you\'re in denial).
And you think Sony is the bad guy?
Get off that soap box, boyee. You sound like a damned fool. The parasite is dead, be happy.
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Originally posted by mm
come on now, napster was far different
bleemcast didnt come packaged with a free copy of tekken 3, or MGS. nor did it allow you to download either game for free. Bleemcast merely gave you an option to play those SPECIFIC games with better graphics
And play playstation games without buying a playstation.
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sony made FAR more money on software sales then they EVER made on hardware sales
please do not attempt to disagree
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Originally posted by mm
sony made FAR more money on software sales then they EVER made on hardware sales
please do not attempt to disagree
The point is - Bleem has...or had the potential to take hardware sales away from Sony. You know how much that could be? That\'s still money. Please do not attempt to disagree.
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bah
this is pointless
perhaps you guys are jealous that thru bleemcast, the dreamcast can make MGS, GT2, and FF9 look better then the PS2 can?
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Once again, mm and Altered/Me has the same viewpoint but people seem to only argue and throw insults at the non-mod.
mm, you need to make us mods so we won\'t get picked on so much.
:nut:
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Also...
For those who support Sony because its a piracy issue, Sony loses on hardware sales, bleem! allows you to play pirated games, blah blah blah...
Do you do any of the following?
Download MP3s for free?
Buy bootleg movies/games/software?
Burn CDs?
Use any program such as Napster, Morpheus, Kazaa, etc?
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
So basically, the 2 people above me have no idea what they are talking about.
Bozco, do you have any idea what you just said?
"I thought it was bull**** what sega was doing, I\'m glad Sony stopped that, DC was just trying to borrow some sales from the great one"
Sega doesn\'t make bleem!, bleem! does numbskull. Sega didn\'t license bleem! for DC. Man sometimes your ignorance really bothers me. "The Great one" :rolleyes:, thanks SOny for becoming the next NES!!
Eric Jacob
I didn\'t mean it that way twat
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Originally posted by mm
sony made FAR more money on software sales then they EVER made on hardware sales
please do not attempt to disagree
Think of it this way. With each PSX sold, there were probably 10 games bought for it (that\'s a very low number. My PSX library has over 35 games). But for every Dreamcast with Bleem bought, there were only a handful of PSX games bought, if that. Bleem not only stole hardware sales from Sony, but it stole potential software sales too.
And another bad thing about Bleem: It not only was hurting Sony, but it was helping Sega. That just isn\'t right. I think it\'s kind of funny how the Sega fanboys (not nessesaraly a bad thing, mind you -- you just love Sega to death ;)) are the only ones who don\'t find anything wrong with Bleem.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Bozco, do you have any idea what you just said?
"I thought it was bull**** what sega was doing, I\'m glad Sony stopped that, DC was just trying to borrow some sales from the great one"
Sega doesn\'t make bleem!, bleem! does numbskull. Sega didn\'t license bleem! for DC. Man sometimes your ignorance really bothers me.
Now who\'s being ignorant Eric? What Bozco said was true. Because Sega didn\'t stop Bleem, they were (knowingly) stealing sales from Sony. I don\'t blaim them for not stopping them, but that doesn\'t mean they were not stealing. And don\'t tell me that "This is Sega. They allow that kind of stuff." Because we all know that if it was the other way around, Sega would be the one unleashing the lawyers on Sony.
I love BillyGunn\'s reply. I remember when he pledged his love for PS2 and promised to always defend it. What a lame ass. This guy isn\'t getting any til he is old enough to pay for it in LV. Same with half the nerds around here who are concerned with how well Saintly Sony fights of bastardly! bleem!.
It really sickens me, you know?
lol. If we are nerds, then you are too. You worship the ground Sega walks on. Don\'t try to tell us that we are being fanboys (indirectly, but you did), because that is just being a hypocrite.
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The actual dollar amount is irregardless of the fact that you no longer need Sony as a primary contact to play any playstation games. That is why all their products and those produced by other developers are made "FOR USE ON THE SONY PLAYSTATION".
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"FOR USE ON THE SONY PLAYSTATION" does not mean "ONLY for use on the playstation" now does it?
and since when does bleem! = piracy?
ashford, i havent insulted anyone. i actually enjoy these heated debates when the senior members, my friends. how do u think i judge who becomes mods around here i sure as hell dont let that little chimp clyde pick him. he\'d make trintius a mod for 3 nanners. :)
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Originally posted by Ashford
Also...
For those who support Sony because its a piracy issue, Sony loses on hardware sales
Jeez....you\'re about 4 years late on that news. Sony started making profits off its Playstation console (ie hardware) no less than 18 months after its debut. The cost of the parts (RAM and processor) dropped and therefore they made a profit. Heck, they dropped the price of the PSX down to $200 a year and a half after its American launch!
Bleem is dead. Good.
Dreamcast is dead. Deal with it.
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bozco - you did and you know it. I don\'t think there is any other way to interpret your ramblings.
Ashford - good point again. Notice how only I am singled out amount the array of opinions? I don\'t have banning power, must be why.
originally posted by GmanJoe
Bleem will prevent one from buying a PSX. Why bother when you can play it on a PC or DC(Bleemcast)? Bleem can play pirated games(if you thought it could not, you\'re in denial).
How was I supposed to know. I don\'t own a single copied game. Unlike most of you, I\'m not a hypocrite.
Ironfist - a 10:1 PSX ratio isn\'t realistic, I am afraid. and I would bet that 90% of the people that bought bleemcast! disks already owned a PSX, just wanted to play better looking games. Sega couldn\'t stop bleem! even if they tried. Did Sega stop piracy? no. It isn\'t a matter that Sega chose not to stop them, it is that Sega COULDN\'T stop them. I think that point is obvious. You guys weren\'t being fanboys, I neither implied, nor meant that. I meant you guys are nerds. The same sort of people that rally at the WTO summits, hold up signs against abortion (I am pro-life of course), etc. None of that crap matters. I KNOW I am a fanboy of Sega, but that doesn\'t mean I can\'t defend other companies and enjoy other companies games. You guys seem to think a game will suck if it is on X-Box, meanwhile ruling completely on PS2.
you guys are sad. mm, make me a mod. Or give me some special title. ;) :p
Eric Jacob
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1st of all, lemme clear the air
mm = sega fanboy [if such a thing exists]
2nd of all, why all the attitude and hatred towards sega abd bleem? what did it personally do to you guys?
if you had a DC, you would JUMP at the chance to play MGS or FF9 with FAR superior graphics with bleemcast
ahh, i wasted 20 minutes finding this
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bleemfrance.com%2Findex_fichiers%2Fbigdifference.jpg&hash=7f2b03c1a49022e379a7e1bdc2ea859ee4803dac)
altered, what title do u want?
:)
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Originally posted by IronFist
Now who\'s being ignorant Eric? What Bozco said was true. Because Sega didn\'t stop Bleem, they were (knowingly) stealing sales from Sony. I don\'t blaim them for not stopping them, but that doesn\'t mean they were not stealing. And don\'t tell me that "This is Sega. They allow that kind of stuff." Because we all know that if it was the other way around, Sega would be the one unleashing the lawyers on Sony.
Thank you, thats what I meant, but he has to go ape **** on me, now here he comes saying that wasn\'t what I meant, since he would know in all even though I posted it
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Bozco, read my reply to IronFist I already made. Now read your post directly above mine. Now look sad and say "d\'oh."
mm - nice ;)
Eric Jacob
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It\'s funny to think that Sony would probably sue bleem! if they had put Sweet Tooth or the Ico main character without permission.
Unleash the lawyers!! Some thoughtless bastard has made a drawing of one of our characters!!
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
How was I supposed to know. I don\'t own a single copied game. Unlike most of you, I\'m not a hypocrite.
Whoa! And you\'re not? Let\'s see, you said "Damn Sony for killing off Bleem coz it was cutting into their sales!"
Hypocrisy galore.
Originally posted by AlteredBeast
You guys weren\'t being fanboys, I neither implied, nor meant that. I meant you guys are nerds. The same sort of people that rally at the WTO summits, hold up signs against abortion (I am pro-life of course), etc.
Let\'s see....coz my opinion is different from yours....you think I\'m some bleeding heart liberal. You know what? Your logic needs tweaking.
Originally posted by AlteredBeast
None of that crap matters. I KNOW I am a fanboy of Sega, but that doesn\'t mean I can\'t defend other companies and enjoy other companies games. You guys seem to think a game will suck if it is on X-Box, meanwhile ruling completely on PS2.
[/B]
Uh...are you trying to paint yourself as a victim who lost an argument about his precious Bleem? Or some hero of non-PS2 consoles? Pathetic. Yes, you.
Originally posted by AlteredBeast
you guys are sad. mm, make me a mod. Or give me some special title. ;) :p
Eric Jacob [/B]
You? A moderator? Dude....your sense of logic is a bit off base on this very thread you started. Look at this hypocrisy who\'ve typed up! And YOU want to be a moderator? You\'re the one nominating yourself? Your dillusional heroism about this Bleem and Sega and Xbox thing has gotten to your head. Do you dream of being a superstar before you go to bed too?
You need to step back away from the computer and go outside and tan that pale-as-catfish-belly-skin of yours, you nerd, and get a social life.
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huh? A tan in Nebraska in November? Not bloody likely!
bleem! wasn\'t meant for piracy, the fact that it played copied games is the fault of Playstation game code, bleem! didn\'t write in their source code "If disk = copy or file = .ISO than gameplay = yes" They simply made an emulator that played Playstation emulator that played games.
What exactly did they steal? code? no. Me buying a PSX game, or playing one from my collection on bleem! for the better graphics is piracy? strange.
I never said "Damn Sony for killing off Bleem coz it was cutting into their sales!". If I did type anything like that (and I wouldn\'t say \'coz\' because I don\'t enjoy sounding thouroughly retarded), it was laced with so much sarcasm that anyone that interpreted it any other way missed the point, entirely. so that was hypocrisy.
Onto statement two:
"Let\'s see....coz my opinion is different from yours....you think I\'m some bleeding heart liberal. You know what? Your logic needs tweaking. "
I never said you guys were liberals. I said you were nerds, how ****ING hard is that for you to understand?
onto statement three:
"Uh...are you trying to paint yourself as a victim who lost an argument about his precious Bleem? Or some hero of non-PS2 consoles? Pathetic. Yes, you"
huh? I have at least 3 other people agreeing with me, yet I lost the argument? I don\'t get it. There isn\'t a win or lose in this thread, there is a competent and incompetent. Step into my office, you\'re ****ing fired.
Onto statement four, the funniest of all:
"You? A moderator? Dude....your sense of logic is a bit off base on this very thread you started. Look at this hypocrisy who\'ve typed up! And YOU want to be a moderator? You\'re the one nominating yourself? Your dillusional heroism about this Bleem and Sega and Xbox thing has gotten to your head. Do you dream of being a superstar before you go to bed too?
You need to step back away from the computer and go outside and tan that pale-as-catfish-belly-skin of yours, you nerd, and get a social life."
logic, interests, etc. Mean nothing in being a mod. I don\'t spam, nor have I ever outside of the joking realm. I rebutted all of your hypocrisy claims and in my mind, made you seem laughable at best. I have had PMs warning me about arguing with you, something about arguing with you is futile and like arguing to a brick wall, I should have listened. I have had many others nominate me before, if you REALLY care, look back on some of the old Off-Topic threads about MODs and stuff.
Sorry, I do get out. I play football tons, hang out with friends, go see movies, etc,etc,etc. notice how most of my posts revolve arguing with numbskulls such as yourself late at night? I have an active daylife, what the hell am I supposed to do during the day.
You\'re a ****ing geek.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Ironfist - a 10:1 PSX ratio isn\'t realistic, I am afraid.
Wouldn\'t you agree with me when I say only the hardcore gamers (for the most part) buy Bleemcast games? If so, than wouldn\'t it be likely that if the gamer bought a PSX instead of a Dreamcast and the Bleemcast games, they would buy a lot of games for the system? That seems logical to me...
and I would bet that 90% of the people that bought bleemcast! disks already owned a PSX, just wanted to play better looking games.
Sure, a lot of gamers owned a PSX before the Dreamcast came out. But there were still a lot who didn\'t (those who were still bitter about the Saturns demise and were blinded by their loyalty to Sega). I would say that about 40% of Bleemcasters already owned a PSX.
Sega couldn\'t stop bleem! even if they tried. Did Sega stop piracy? no. It isn\'t a matter that Sega chose not to stop them, it is that Sega COULDN\'T stop them.
They couldn\'t stop Bleem, but they could stop bleem from being on the Dreamcast. Correct me if I\'m wrong, but don\'t you have to have a lisence to make anything for a console? (games, memory cars, controllers, and yes, even Bleem) Sega could have put an end to it, but like I said, I don\'t blame them for not. They were going through some tough times and needed all the help they could get.
I think that point is obvious. You guys weren\'t being fanboys, I neither implied, nor meant that. I meant you guys are nerds. The same sort of people that rally at the WTO summits, hold up signs against abortion (I am pro-life of course), etc. None of that crap matters.
Of course most of us support Sony. If something bad happens to them, we care. If someone is making money off of Sony\'s products, which in turn hurts Sony, we care. Why, you may ask? Because the more money Sony gets, the more money they have to spend on developing future systems and games. At least that\'s my reason for being happy Bleem is dead. I don\'t want to speak for everyone else because they might have their own reasons.
I KNOW I am a fanboy of Sega, but that doesn\'t mean I can\'t defend other companies and enjoy other companies games. You guys seem to think a game will suck if it is on X-Box, meanwhile ruling completely on PS2.
Don\'t generalize me into the Sony fanboy category (with that last sentence, you did). I support the Xbox, NGC, and yes, even the Dreamcast as well as my PS2. If I wasn\'t going on a "2 year vacation" next year (;)), I probably would have got an Xbox at launch. But as of right now, it just isn\'t worth it to me.
MM,
mm = sega fanboy [if such a thing exists]
We already knew that. ;) That\'s why I said only the Sega fanboys are the ones who don\'t find anything wrong with Bleem. But at least you aren\'t so big of a fanboy that you are blinded towards a good game on a different system.
2nd of all, why all the attitude and hatred towards sega abd bleem? what did it personally do to you guys?
Like I said above, the more money Sony makes, the better the future products will be. I don\'t hate Sega, but Bleem was raping Sony.
if you had a DC, you would JUMP at the chance to play MGS or FF9 with FAR superior graphics with bleemcast
No I wouldn\'t, and no I didn\'t. After playing through those games so many times already, even souped up graphics can\'t make them fun anymore. That is another reason why I think mostly the people who don\'t own a PSX are the ones buying Bleemcast games.
Altered Again:
It\'s funny to think that Sony would probably sue bleem! if they had put Sweet Tooth or the Ico main character without permission.
Unleash the lawyers!! Some thoughtless bastard has made a drawing of one of our characters!!
Do you want to know what I think of that picture? Well too bad, I\'m telling you anyways! :D I think Bleem made that picture with Sonic crying for one reason -- to spark the hatred towards Sony in Sega lovers. And IMO, it worked VERY well. They could have used a Sony mascot, but it wouldn\'t have had the same effect. Bleem was doing one last thing to hurt Sony. It was like a kamikaze mission.
GmanJoe, no need to start personal attacks. Lets try to keep this as a debate instead of an argument.
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bah, some people have no vocabulary and must resort to personal insults.
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thanks mm, this shall be my last post in this thread unless someone has anything interesting or consructive against what I say.
Ironfist:
"Wouldn\'t you agree with me when I say only the hardcore gamers (for the most part) buy Bleemcast games? If so, than wouldn\'t it be likely that if the gamer bought a PSX instead of a Dreamcast and the Bleemcast games, they would buy a lot of games for the system? That seems logical to me... "
I would agree that only hardcore would buy bleemcast disks. But hardcore people would\'ve already owned a PSX years before bleem! was even thought of, and would\'ve bought DC, purely on it\'s own stellar titles, much before bleem! was announced for it. Nobody bought a DC to play a couple PSX games in high Rez, nobody. that is flawed logic. Reread what you wrote, I think you will agree.
"Sure, a lot of gamers owned a PSX before the Dreamcast came out. But there were still a lot who didn\'t (those who were still bitter about the Saturns demise and were blinded by their loyalty to Sega). I would say that about 40% of Bleemcasters already owned a PSX. "
Everybody had a PSX. The only people I know who never had a PSX, yet are still hardcore are the ones who grew out of gaming, then decided it was time to return with the great console DC. In that case, it isn\'t like they were gonna say "gaming is good again, now let me buy an older console that is almost done" no, they would say "bleem! eh? I heard about a few good games on PSX, maybe now I will go buy them" This would cause games sales increase, while not affecting PSX hardware, as people weren\'t interested in the system.
"They couldn\'t stop Bleem, but they could stop bleem from being on the Dreamcast. Correct me if I\'m wrong, but don\'t you have to have a lisence to make anything for a console? (games, memory cars, controllers, and yes, even Bleem) Sega could have put an end to it, but like I said, I don\'t blame them for not. They were going through some tough times and needed all the help they could get. "
Ever seen a Nuby PSX memory card? that is unlicensed. You don\'t have to have a license, but unlicensed products aren\'t given any help, therefore may not work as well as a licensed accessory or game. Best Buy carries many unlicensed PSX, PS2, and DC accessories. Think Gameshark, not licensed, Codebreaker, not licensed. If it doesn\'t say, licensed by \'x\' company, it isn\'t. This is the same for bleem!, Sega couldn\'t do anything about it, and why would they try and waste their money and end up losing like with Gameshark, etc.? They are niche items and people usually only buy first party stuff anyway.
"Of course most of us support Sony. If something bad happens to them, we care. If someone is making money off of Sony\'s products, which in turn hurts Sony, we care. Why, you may ask? Because the more money Sony gets, the more money they have to spend on developing future systems and games. At least that\'s my reason for being happy Bleem is dead. I don\'t want to speak for everyone else because they might have their own reasons. "
an independent studio making low-rez, pixelated, jaggy games, work on DC will not affect Sony in any way, shape, or form. Sony probably lost more money hiring lawyers to repeatedly sue bleem! than they would\'ve if they let bleem! run it\'s small course. Now that is Poetic Justice! for every game that people bought to play on DC, Sony made money. Your reasons for njoying bleem!\'s death is jaded and skewed by lack of info. All I am suggesting is that they weren\'t doing anything wrong. Probably in a way helped Sony. I sure as hell wasn\'t going to buy a 4th PSX, but I got Gran Turismo 2 for bleem! And I will probably get MGS for bleem! since everyone raves about the game, I think it deserves another go at it, I didn\'t really enjoy it the first time, but I have to gear up for Headhunter when it arrives at my front door.
"Don\'t generalize me into the Sony fanboy category (with that last sentence, you did). I support the Xbox, NGC, and yes, even the Dreamcast as well as my PS2. If I wasn\'t going on a "2 year vacation" next year (), I probably would have got an Xbox at launch. But as of right now, it just isn\'t worth it to me."
I actually wasn\'t talking to anyone else but you and GmanJoe. You are a sony fanboy. it isn\'t really hard to admit it. It isn\'t even necessarily a bad thing, but you gotta be able to make reasonable opinions and argue on them without letting the bias thing get you. It is there, you may not notice it, but it is there. I catch myself praising stuff I don\'t like because it is Sega, only to realize sometimes the products are empty.
"Do you want to know what I think of that picture? Well too bad, I\'m telling you anyways! I think Bleem made that picture with Sonic crying for one reason -- to spark the hatred towards Sony in Sega lovers. And IMO, it worked VERY well. They could have used a Sony mascot, but it wouldn\'t have had the same effect. Bleem was doing one last thing to hurt Sony. It was like a kamikaze mission."
I interpret it a different way. I see that kind of like, with bleem! dying and Sega going third party, a piece of videogames is dying. Or maybe Sonic realized the genuine talent these guys had and it sucks to see them go, hopefully they find work at another place, or maybe work on getting a decent Saturn emu for my PC dangit! It\'s gotta be able to be done! I wanna play PDS in hi-rez!!
Eric Jacob
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Well in my opinoin i think Bleem! was a pretty cool deal
i mean look at the difference - i mean how can you be happy that the PS2 can make graphics better with a little smoothed texture featured and yet overlook a software that you can buy and use to get even better results which MM has shown already
that seems hyprocrytical to me
if you ask me most people own more then one console - and most people own a DC and PSX and even if they dont sega will not make much if any money off of this software - the only people that would hurt would be sony and last i saw they arent hurting too bad from this software - i mean geez look how many psx/psones have been sold and are steal selling - if you ask me i dont think this hurt it at all
who knows maybe it brought more psx sales after all people play a few games supported with bleemcast and decide hey psx does have some good games and i want more - then they buy a psx to get more games - see thats a little less likely but quite possible situation
the only thing i dislike about the bleem! is the copied game support - which i believe is only supported on the pc version not the bleemcast version - also i dont even remember hearing anything about the support but am just going on what others have said
anyway thats all i have to say i guess :)
there another in support for the lonely three - altered, mm , ashford you have an ally here :)
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I started the personal attacks? He called us "sad", "nerds "and "hypocrites" before I really got into the fray.
And if AlterteredBeast doesn\'t know the "liberals" are people that protest at abortion clinics and WTO Summits, then he\'s not one to argue with me if the things he says are over his head.
The fact is Bleem will prevent one from buying a PSX since it can play games on other consoles. And Sony does profit from the PSX hardware. It\'s not about making money - it\'s the principle. If you bought a soda for a $1 and the state tax was only 5% yet you were charged $1.15 total, wouldn\'t you say something about getting jipped 15 cents? It\'s not the money - it\'s the principle. You\'re no sucker, and Sony isn\'t one either. It makes no difference that a lot of people have PSX consoles either.
That is all I\'ve been trying to say here. You all keep saying that Sony is evil for trying to put a stop to Bleem and you can\'t seem to understand why they\'d do such a thing. I think you understand perfectly - yet you just refuse to listen or accept Sony\'s reason for stopping them.
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people who protest at abortion clinics are liberals? :rolleyes: I don\'t think you know what you are talking about.
I didn\'t say Sony was evil for stopping bleem!, just that they used their muscle and money to squash a tiny company that was doing more good than bad. Bad Sony! Becoming NES Nintendo!
Eric Jacob
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BWAH! I thought you meant the pro-choice people! Coz when you said WTO protesters, I immediately thought "He\'s a damn liberal!"
Anyway....well...I guess we agree to disagree.
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Well either way I think Bleem was bull**** and piracy, and I think sony had a right to stop it, and Altered Beast, are you getting a title because you bash people before you even think for 2 seconds
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mm...
I didn\'t say you were throwing insults. I said whenever YOU and Altered (or me) have the same viewpoints, notice that all opposing opinions are directed at Altered. Not to mention the insults. Remember the thread on Shenmue 2?
Till this point, no one has really argued with mm but still continue to argue with Altered. Why is that?
Sublime...
Actually, I\'m not really on any side. I just defended Altered when people acted as if he was the only one with the differing opinion.
And I think Altered would make a good mod.
:fro: :fro: :fro:
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Ironfist...
I find it funny that you labeled me a fanboy when I\'m not on either side. Takes one to know one, right?
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Ashford
And I think Altered would make a good mod.
Yeah, well that is if his opinion of sega didn\'t blind him
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Originally posted by Bozco
Well either way I think Bleem was bull**** and piracy, and I think sony had a right to stop it.
Preach on brother Bozco.
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Originally posted by Ashford
And I think Altered would make a good mod.
No he wouldn\'t, got to agree with Bozco here
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Bleem wasn\'t hurting Sony\'s sales and Napster wasn\'t hurting Metallica\'s sales. But you saw them both take the law into their hands. That\'s the way it stands. I may not agree with Sony\'s or Lars(fagg0t) decision, but it was their call to make.
You got to be careful.
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people that wouldn\'t like me as a mod are the ones who I usually make jackasses out of, why would that be...hmmm?
go look up the definition of piracy anywhere on the net and you guys will see that bleem! doesn\'t qualify as any of it. I doubt you will find any site\'s definition that agrees with you guys.
Eric wins again!
Eric Jacob
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sorry fellas, im with altered on this one
bleemcast helped sony software sales, plain and simple
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Why wouldn\'t Altered make a good mod?
Please \'splain...
And don\'t say he\'s a Sega fanboy or too big a Sega fan.
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mm...
Can I have some kinda title, too?
How about...
"Shenmue Connoisseur"
or something related to Shenmue...
How about it?
From one Shenmue fanatic to another...
;)
:fro: :fro: :fro:
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Jeez....you\'re about 4 years late on that news. Sony started making profits off its Playstation console (ie hardware) no less than 18 months after its debut. The cost of the parts (RAM and processor) dropped and therefore they made a profit. Heck, they dropped the price of the PSX down to $200 a year and a half after its American launch!
Bleem is dead. Good.
Dreamcast is dead. Deal with it.
What the heck are you talking about?
Why did you only quote part of my post?
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
people that wouldn\'t like me as a mod are the ones who I usually make jackasses out of, why would that be...hmmm?
go look up the definition of piracy anywhere on the net and you guys will see that bleem! doesn\'t qualify as any of it. I doubt you will find any site\'s definition that agrees with you guys.
Eric wins again!
Eric Jacob
You\'re such a geek it\'s unbelievable.
You made us look like jackasses? Show me a thread please, it\'ll be interesting. You on the other hand make a jackass out of yourself, which I find very impressive.
You can\'t be a mod coz you\'re one of the most biased persons on this board now that Jumpman isn\'t around anymore. But of course you wouldn\'t admit that.
You obviously have no idea about piracy...
Bleem allows copied games to be played, that\'s a fact. And that will lead to piracy. It doesn\'t mean Bleem! is illegal that is correct coz you\'re allowed to own backups of your original games but it will lead to piracy. You have to be pretty naive to think otherwise.
If Sony would just say go ahead, we don\'t care if people pirate software and use bleem! to run it on a rival system, that would send out the wrong signal.
I liked Bleem, it wasn\'t a good emulator, at least not for the PC, but I\'m not gonna sit down and actually be mad at Sony for doing what every company who\'s in it for the money would\'ve done. Protecting their copyrighted material and trademarks by saying we don\'t tolerate software that can lead to piracy of our copyrighted material.
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Next to Altered, I would say mm is the biggest Sega fan.
Why is no one questioning him being a mod? He is obviously partial to Sega and even admits it.
Most people favor one console/company over another.
Are you saying none of the mods are partial to any one console or company?
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I don\'t want to sound like I\'m switching sides, because I\'m not. But why are you guys talking about Bleem allows piracy? Doesn\'t the PSX allow piracy with a simple "tape on a button" trick? Piracy is not why I don\'t like Bleem. I don\'t like Bleem because it hurts Sony, whether Altered/MM/Ashford are willing to accept that or not.
Altered, I will be back with a responce to your post later. I\'m trying to get some information first.
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everyone whos been here any amount of time, knows i dislike nintendo and love sega. sony kinda sits between the two
i have always supported a multi-console environment here at these forums, and thats why i feel theyve become so succsessful.
i just never saw bleem as a threat to sony. bleem helped sell more PSX games, and bleemcast REALLY helped sell more PSX games.
more software = more money
whos to argue?
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something being piracy and something that allows piracy are 2 entirely different things.
JP - there is no way I could prove to you that I made you look stupid. Nobody has the freewill to allow their conscious to see something totally from the outside.
I can provide links, if you really want, but it is pretty null. When people have a stupid opinion or misconception about something, I correct it for them. After, if they choose to support their original initiative, that is there problem, they will just look like jackasses for it.
http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15858
after your first remark, you never posted. Perhaps out of lack of caring. but more probable is that you know what a dumbass statement that was. You know you never got passed the first disc, if even played the game at all. It isn\'t like we haven\'t agreed before. It seems like you spite Sega because of me. Read this thread below.
http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15423
This is a thread where I make an ass out of mejilan.
http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14847&highlight=Nintendo
and here I defend Nintendo. (yup, I am a Sega fanboy! :rolleyes:) And I hate Nintendo worse than mm because they are the number one reason that the glorious 8-bit wonder, SMS didn\'t win in America. Nintendo used monopolistic measures to gain all third party support. I have also defended Soy numerous times, as I have MS, I dont think I need to pull up links to these, since I already know I am not a fanboy. I know more about games than nearly everyone on this forum, as comes with owning tons of games, systems, etc, over the many years I have played. I have played and determined over the years that nobody can make a game like Sega can. People bash them, so I defend them, it is really simple. If people don\'t bash their works of art, I wouldn\'t have to bring them up. My judgement is no more clouded than yours is. The only difference is I have NEVER spammed, also I know when a topic needs to be closed, moved, or deleted. There would be two topics in the main forum in here and I would get to the MGS2/GTA3/etc. in there respective forums faster because I am on these boards probably more than anyone, usually up until 2 or 3 am.
Making people look like jackasses is half the fun of proving your point.
/end rant
I still don\'t grasp how you guys are happy that Sony\'s lawyers (essentially) shut down a company that was making money for them. Just like Abe Lincoln said...
Eric Jacob
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Gather \'round you overgrown children. It\'s time for a story about Bleem: The little engine that could not, and Sony: The really fat guy in the caboose. (he he he, I\'m so funny)
Once upon a time (1998), in a land far away (California), two people came up with an idea that would change the way PSX games were looked at forever. Randy Linden and David Herpolsheimer programmed a thing called "Bleem!" that could not only play PSX games on the PC, but could also play them using the graphical capabilities of the next gen graphics cards. When the first beta release was exposed to the public, PC fans rejoiced. No PSX emulator was as stable, easy to install, or gave nearly as much of a graphical enhancement as Bleem did. Of course, with all this excitement on emulated PSX games on the PC, Sony\'s brow was raised.
How big and successful could this "Bleem!" program get? What effect could this have on the PSX and its software? Out of probably fear alone, Sony took action. Not unlike Microsoft, Sony wanted to eliminate the threat before it got too big. But unlike Microsoft, Sony took the "suing" rout instead of the "buying out" rout. Sony quickly found out though that Suing Bleem wouldn\'t be as easy as they initially planned.
In February, 1999, a few days after Sony lost a court battle with Connectix, the makers of a Macintosh PSX emulator called "Virtual Game Station," Bleem launched their software. "If Sony wants to get litigious with us, it\'ll be very tough," said David Herpolsheimer. "They have a very, very big stick, and they could bludgeon us to death with lawyers if they want to." And bludgeon Sony did.
Court battle after court battle lead to Sony losing again and again. They tried everything from copyright infringements to trade violations, but it was all in vain. Because of the way Bleem was made, Sony could not lay a hand on the tiny company. Bleem was completely reverse engineered from the software down to the hardware, making any argument from Sony worthless. Because all of Bleem\'s code was 100% original, Sony could not successfully sue them. "There\'s not a bit of code in there that Sony can say is theirs," he said. "Legally, they don\'t have a leg to stand on," Herpolsheimer said.
Bleem really didn\'t find anything wrong with emulating PSX games on the PC. They figured it could only help Sony. "It\'s absolutely the end of this hardware\'s life cycle," Herpolsheimer said. "It\'s a dead platform, it\'s over." Bleem actually wanted to come to an agreement with Sony: Because hardware sales were way down, Sony should support emulators and continue making money from licensed games and software development tools.
This went on for more than a year, followed by one big blow from Bleem. I guess after Sony gave Bleem such a hard time for so long, they wanted to get back at them. Word got out that a Dreamcast version of Bleem was on the way called "Bleemcast!" Bleemcast would more than quadruple the Dreamcast\'s library, give most PSX games double their original resolution as well as full-screen anti-aliasing and bi-linear filtering, and would only cost $20 for a pack of 100! Bleemcast did to PSX games what the PS2 only dreamed of doing, as MM already showed in a picture. Bleemcast also had some adapters to use Sony controllers on the Dreamcast:
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamersuplink.com%2Fimages%2Fmorebleem%2Fbpodblack.jpg&hash=8faada58a5044f212de2f215dfcf4d14077d5d8a)
Oh, and what the heck. Here are two pics comparing a PSX game on the PSX to a Bleemcasted game. This should give your eyes a rest from reading all that text. :)
PSX: (obviously blown up so the resolution was the same as the Bleemcast pic)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamersuplink.com%2Fimages%2Fbleemcast%2FRR4_PSX_FRONT.jpg&hash=5a7c7773880d2a50b558a95a51a5bc4314c8a837)
DC:
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamersuplink.com%2Fimages%2Fbleemcast%2FRR4_DC_FRONT.jpg&hash=d71c02bf5bf55744ac20183ba19aeb281dae7188)
A quote from wired.com:
Herpolsheimer expects the new line to push many "fence sitters" toward the Dreamcast console. "There\'s really no excuse to not own a Dreamcast now. With top-selling PlayStation games selling for around $20 and Sega\'s new "free Dreamcast" program, you can walk out of the store with a new Dreamcast, plus bleem!, and four best-selling PlayStation games for less than the cost of a new PlayStation."
OUCH! With the Bleemcast, Bleem delivered an arguably well-deserved blow to Sony. It hurt PSX sales (slightly), and even more importantly, it made the PS2 look less intriguing. Not like it mattered though. The PS2s sales were so strong that even Bleemcast couldn\'t keep PS2s on the shelves.
Delay after delay, reduction after reduction in what Bleemcast had to offer (because of Sony), and Bleemcast was finally released. Unfortunately, it was really too little too late. Sony had won in the end. The small programming team from California was no more. They went back into their basements and began to think of their next big project. What diabolical scheme will they come up with next? We will soon find out... DUN DUN DUN!
The End
After reading article after article of what Bleem was, and about all the court cases Sony had against them, even a Sony fanboy like me can\'t help but feel sorry for them. My opinion of Bleem has changed. If Sony worked with Bleem instead of against them, both companies could be so much more than they are today. Bleem really could have been beneficial to both companies. I don\'t blame Sony for what they did, because really, they didn\'t know that this whole thing would turn out like this. And I still think even Sega would have done the same thing if they were in that position.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
something being piracy and something that allows piracy are 2 entirely different things.
JP - there is no way I could prove to you that I made you look stupid. Nobody has the freewill to allow their conscious to see something totally from the outside.
I can provide links, if you really want, but it is pretty null. When people have a stupid opinion or misconception about something, I correct it for them. After, if they choose to support their original initiative, that is there problem, they will just look like jackasses for it.
http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15858
after your first remark, you never posted. Perhaps out of lack of caring. but more probable is that you know what a dumbass statement that was. You know you never got passed the first disc, if even played the game at all. It isn\'t like we haven\'t agreed before. It seems like you spite Sega because of me. Read this thread below.
http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15423
This is a thread where I make an ass out of mejilan.
http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14847&highlight=Nintendo
and here I defend Nintendo. (yup, I am a Sega fanboy! :rolleyes:) And I hate Nintendo worse than mm because they are the number one reason that the glorious 8-bit wonder, SMS didn\'t win in America. Nintendo used monopolistic measures to gain all third party support. I have also defended Soy numerous times, as I have MS, I dont think I need to pull up links to these, since I already know I am not a fanboy. I know more about games than nearly everyone on this forum, as comes with owning tons of games, systems, etc, over the many years I have played. I have played and determined over the years that nobody can make a game like Sega can. People bash them, so I defend them, it is really simple. If people don\'t bash their works of art, I wouldn\'t have to bring them up. My judgement is no more clouded than yours is. The only difference is I have NEVER spammed, also I know when a topic needs to be closed, moved, or deleted. There would be two topics in the main forum in here and I would get to the MGS2/GTA3/etc. in there respective forums faster because I am on these boards probably more than anyone, usually up until 2 or 3 am.
Making people look like jackasses is half the fun of proving your point.
/end rant
I still don\'t grasp how you guys are happy that Sony\'s lawyers (essentially) shut down a company that was making money for them. Just like Abe Lincoln said...
Eric Jacob
Where in that thread did you make me look like a dumbass?
I stated my own personal opinion where I said it was the most overrated game ever. And then you reply with a childish response where you assume I never got past the first disc. I completed it, I\'d never comment like that on a game I\'ve never completed. That would just look stupid. It\'s like this, I have an opinion and when it doesn\'t suit your taste I\'m a dumbass? Yeah right there is one ****ing good reason why you SHOULD NOT be a mod. I never replied coz I simply forgot.
And I do admire some of the details of Shenmue and the effort put in, too bad it\'s lacking seriously in the gameplay department.
And let me use one of your own quotes to describe Shenmue:
"Have fun playing those cut scenes" from a MGS2 thread.
Hypocrite. Shenmue may have a better story and may be more detailed but it\'s still a lesser game than MGS.
I liked Shenmue but it\'s the most overrated game ever IMO.
And one last thing, I love Sega, always loved Sega and never have liked Nintendo all that much.
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so, we\'re all in agreement
sega = good
nintendo = bad
sums it up nicely
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"And let me use one of your own quotes to describe Shenmue:
"Have fun playing those cut scenes" from a MGS2 thread.
Hypocrite. Shenmue may have a better story and may be more detailed but it\'s still a lesser game than MGS.
I liked Shenmue but it\'s the most overrated game ever IMO. "
Please quote me on that...please do. Find a link.
Eric Jacob
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Well I don\'t think you should be a mod Altered, but you don\'t ever make me look like a jackass, and don\'t try to use this thread as an example because you went off of total assumptions
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I swear...people in here have some kinda reading disability or something.
Ironfist...
Did you even read my post where I said I wasn\'t on either side? Yet, you still lump me in the same category as Altered and mm.
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Bozco, I have made you look stupid numerous times, this thread only adds to it. What you meant to say and what you SAID were totally different then, because I replied accurately based on what you said. Exactly what you said.
Your opinions always seem so far out of whack it is just funny to hear them and reply to them.
Ashford - talk about it, I have been labeled on this board at various different times a: Nintendo fanboy, XBox fanboy, Sega fanboy, and Sony fanboy. Just because some idiot comes in and I have to dfend some console or another, they choose to believe that if you are for one idea, you MUST be totally against a different side.
Even IronFist has come around slightly after reading the story of bleem! Sony used their money to slowly squeeze the life out of an already tiny company. I just hope that Connectix doesnt have the same thing happen to them.
Eric Jacob
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Altered, you make stupid assumptions and take them as fact, thats funny
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Originally posted by Ashford
I swear...people in here have some kinda reading disability or something.
Ironfist...
Did you even read my post where I said I wasn\'t on either side? Yet, you still lump me in the same category as Altered and mm.
I still lump you in the same category? When did I lump you in the category after you posted that you were a multi console gamer? Don\'t accuse me of having a reading disability, because you are the one seeing things that aren\'t there.
I just reread through my posts, and the closest thing I could find to what you are claiming is this:
I don\'t like Bleem because it hurts Sony, whether Altered/MM/Ashford are willing to accept that or not.
Is this what you interpreted as me calling you a Sega fanboy? Hmmm...
BTW, Altered and MM are not nearly big enough zealots to be considered Sega fanboys. I was saying that they were bigger fanboys than most of us here, but they still play other systems, so are not technically fanboys.
Anyways, this thread is dead.
*IronFist starts counting the seconds until this thread gets closed*
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http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14766
now i know you said you were "joking" but I don\'t believe you coz I can remember you saying the same about MGS that it lacked gameplay and too many cutscenes and that time you didn\'t say you were joking.
I\'m through with this discussion.
And one other thing I remember reading in the console debate forum where you quoted a discussion you had with a customer and eventually talked him out of buying something.
I dislike that you go around where you work saying MGSX will be coming to the X-Box and make people lose interest in the PS2 when the game has not been confirmed for the XBox yet.
Talk about having major problems with the brand Sony.
If I was your manager I\'d fire your ass for talking a customer out of buying something.
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With the Bleemcast it only proves that it could potentially take sales away not only from the PSX consoles, but also the PS2.
So, Sony made the right decision to sue them to bankruptcy.
Now....what if Sony was a small company? Then what?
Anyway, back when Bleem was being sued by Sony, I knew that they\'d lose. But I also knew they wouldn\'t stop suing.
They made the right decision in shutting down Bleem. It would have hurt Sony in the long run if commericalized emulators could be sold so that you could play Sony\'s software on other consoles or PC. I\'m quite sure MS would do the same thing.
Sega certainly benefitted from all this. You kids keep saying that software makes more money.....but it\'s not only about money, as I explained earlier. Long term investment would be uncertain if commercialized emulators were to keep people from buying consoles from Sony. Then developers would just say - "heck, we don\'t need Sony!"
Dreamcast is dead. Suck it up.
And as for Alteredbeast becoming a mod? Puhleez....he insults people too often and makes too many assumptions. You may not notice it, but I do.
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Dreamcast is dead. Suck it up
dying and dead are two different things
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It\'s kind of amusing that we hadn\'t managed to have a significantly long thread for several weeks now, but a soon as sombody writes \'Damn you Sony!\' in a thread title people are all over it.
A little defensive aren\'t we?
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Originally posted by kangu-G^Ltt^s
It\'s kind of amusing that we hadn\'t managed to have a significantly long thread for several weeks now, but a soon as sombody writes \'Damn you Sony!\' in a thread title people are all over it.
A little defensive aren\'t we?
Obviously. Most of us love Sony and our PS2s. Just like some of us love our Dreamcasts and Sega. What\'s wrong with that?
If someone bashes your favorite basketball/football/baseball team, are you going to stand up for it? If someone starts talking trash about your favorite car, are you going to stand up for it? If someone starts trash talking your mamma, are you going to stand up for her?
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"PS2 when the game has not been confirmed for the XBox yet.
Talk about having major problems with the brand Sony.
If I was your manager I\'d fire your ass for talking a customer out of buying something."
Hello, last year called. It wants its excuse back. Actually, it has been CONFIRMED by Hideo himself. Go to the konami.co.jp message boards. Go to Gamespot, go to IGN, etc. They have all confirmed it. Konami doesn\'t release press on it because it would hurt game sales of the current version, which has the potential to sell more. Does positive news about other consoles strike you with Alzheimers or something? You can probably find it on our board confirmed. BTW, MGS goes a little like this:
5 minutes gameplay
20 minutes of cutscene
wacky subplot...here.
20 minutes of cutscene
5minutes of gameplay
20 minutes of cutscene.
ad infinatium. The game is boring as hell and I don\'t know where you guys have been for the last 5-10 years, but gameplay has gotten much better than this. Perfect 10 my ass.
Why would you fire my ass? Because you don\'t understand? Probably. We sell units at cost, so we don\'t make any money on selling a console. We make on games and accessories. So when a guy says he is buying a PS2 JUST for MGS2, and I tell him of all the Sega titles that are coming for XBox, it has the potential to make us more money. It is simple economics really.
Dreamcast is dead? Funny, I JUST bought another one today. It seemed to be working an hour ago, let me go check by putting in Shenmue, the GREATEST GAME EVER.
Eric Jacob
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"PS2 when the game has not been confirmed for the XBox yet.
Talk about having major problems with the brand Sony.
If I was your manager I\'d fire your ass for talking a customer out of buying something."
Hello, last year called. It wants its excuse back. Actually, it has been CONFIRMED by Hideo himself. Go to the konami.co.jp message boards. Go to Gamespot, go to IGN, etc. They have all confirmed it. Konami doesn\'t release press on it because it would hurt game sales of the current version, which has the potential to sell more. Does positive news about other consoles strike you with Alzheimers or something? You can probably find it on our board confirmed.
Up to my knowledge, nothings officially confirmed by Hideo or Konami. If this isn\'t the case, please get me that link with the official press statement or comment by Hideo confirming otherwise.
5 minutes gameplay
20 minutes of cutscene
wacky subplot...here.
20 minutes of cutscene
5minutes of gameplay
20 minutes of cutscene.
ad infinatium. The game is boring as hell and I don\'t know where you guys have been for the last 5-10 years, but gameplay has gotten much better than this. Perfect 10 my ass.
Not suprised at all to hear this from a Sega fanboy. I heard it all days while Dreamcast was still up in the console wars.
Dreamcast is dead? Funny, I JUST bought another one today. It seemed to be working an hour ago, let me go check by putting in Shenmue, the GREATEST GAME EVER.
Dreamcast is dead, get over it Eric. Productions have been stopped, their only selling the rest to get rid of the already produced ones. Don\'t act like a dumbass.
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the DC is not dead
i find in infantile for you guys to try and shove it down out throats
when the last DC game gets released, THEN it may be dead technically, but i can keep on playing to my hearts content
lest you guys forget that sega paved the way for online console gaming
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Originally posted by mm
the DC is not dead
i find in infantile for you guys to try and shove it down out throats
when the last DC game gets released, THEN it may be dead technically, but i can keep on playing to my hearts content.
Software may be still in development, but not for long. With "DC is dead" none other then the console itself is ment. It\'s just a matter of time until the software stops. And by the way, DC being "dead" is not ment to offend any of you fanboys outthere - DC is still a great system none the less.
lest you guys forget that sega paved the way for online console gaming
Hardly. The might have been the first to get it out, but online would have came anyway with the PS2. It\'s not Sega being "innovative", but rather just to first to get it out on the market.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
"PS2 when the game has not been confirmed for the XBox yet.
Talk about having major problems with the brand Sony.
If I was your manager I\'d fire your ass for talking a customer out of buying something."
Hello, last year called. It wants its excuse back. Actually, it has been CONFIRMED by Hideo himself. Go to the konami.co.jp message boards. Go to Gamespot, go to IGN, etc. They have all confirmed it. Konami doesn\'t release press on it because it would hurt game sales of the current version, which has the potential to sell more. Does positive news about other consoles strike you with Alzheimers or something? You can probably find it on our board confirmed. BTW, MGS goes a little like this:
5 minutes gameplay
20 minutes of cutscene
wacky subplot...here.
20 minutes of cutscene
5minutes of gameplay
20 minutes of cutscene.
ad infinatium. The game is boring as hell and I don\'t know where you guys have been for the last 5-10 years, but gameplay has gotten much better than this. Perfect 10 my ass.
Why would you fire my ass? Because you don\'t understand? Probably. We sell units at cost, so we don\'t make any money on selling a console. We make on games and accessories. So when a guy says he is buying a PS2 JUST for MGS2, and I tell him of all the Sega titles that are coming for XBox, it has the potential to make us more money. It is simple economics really.
Eric Jacob
First of all, how the hell is that different from Shenmue? Huh?
Shenmue is 20 min cut scene, 1 min cutscene/gameplay where you push A or B button. Oh damn, so much gameplay there. IMO you\'re being very inconsistent in judging gameplay from cut scenes when comparing these two games.
I don\'t know about MGS2 being confirmed for X-Box coz you and DocWiz are the only ones claiming it has. Last interview I read with Kojima he said he wasn\'t even thinking of other consoles atm.
And like you put him off buying a PS2 coz you don\'t make money on consoles. It\'s highly likely he\'d buy more software than just MGS2 for it. I\'m pretty certain you didn\'t put him off it coz of the economics.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
let me go check by putting in Shenmue, the GREATEST GAME EVER.
Eric Jacob
Sega Fanboy hard at work, kissing ass to a less than appealing game
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Originally posted by IronFist
Obviously. Most of us love Sony and our PS2s. Just like some of us love our Dreamcasts and Sega. What\'s wrong with that?
If someone bashes your favorite basketball/football/baseball team, are you going to stand up for it? If someone starts talking trash about your favorite car, are you going to stand up for it? If someone starts trash talking your mamma, are you going to stand up for her?
Well I personally don\'t give a sh*t about Sony\'s business tactics or their legal troubles. The thing that caughtmy attention in this thread is that people are not defending Sony\'s games or their system, but rather their business tactics.
You bought a Sony system and now you find yourself having to justify their business tactics? That\'s \'loyalty\' for you.
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Originally posted by Bozco
Sega Fanboy hard at work, kissing ass to a less than appealing game
Just like a bunch of Sony fanboys defending their favorite company.
What exactly is your point?
Seems some people can\'t accept a differing opinion without moaning about how they\'re wrong and their fave game or company sucks.
And people complain about Tshirts bashing Devil May Cry and Twisted Metal Black and the PS2.
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And people complain about Tshirts bashing Devil May Cry and Twisted Metal Black and the PS2.
Well if he was a level-headed non-anti Sony gamer then we would give him some credit. But when you come here and 99.9% of your posts are anti-ps2 related, what would you expect?
I respect people\'s opinions as long as I respect the person. Do I want to drive to Nebraska tie Beasty up to my bumper and drag him around for his statements about MG? Yes. :D But I respect that he doesn\'t like it. Some people feel the same exact way about Shenmue, and while I understand why they don\'t like it, I loved every second of it. Even the repetitive parts. Same goes for MGS. To me, MGS and Shenmue are above all else.
Err, what was my point again? Oh well.
/ dm /
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Originally posted by datamage
Well if he was a level-headed non-anti Sony gamer then we would give him some credit. But when you come here and 99.9% of your posts are anti-ps2 related, what would you expect?
I respect people\'s opinions as long as I respect the person. Do I want to drive to Nebraska tie Beasty up to my bumper and drag him around for his statements about MG? Yes. :D But I respect that he doesn\'t like it. Some people feel the same exact way about Shenmue, and while I understand why they don\'t like it, I loved every second of it. Even the repetitive parts. Same goes for MGS. To me, MGS and Shenmue are above all else.
Err, what was my point again? Oh well.
/ dm /
I don\'t have a problem with people disliking Shenmue or Sega.
The problem is when people have to bash it just because others are praising it. Like mm said, we don\'t need to you cramming it down our throats. What place does a post like "Shenmue sucks" have in a thread about the possibility of Shenmue 2 being released in the US? Or "DC is dead" in a thread about bleem! vs Sony?
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What place does a post like "Shenmue sucks" have in a thread about the possibility of Shenmue 2 being released in the US? Or "DC is dead" in a thread about bleem! vs Sony?
You are absolutely right. Which is why I shouldn\'t have replied to anything to begin with. ;) I hate when conversations stray from the topic.
/ dm /
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Dang, that was a fast reply. I just typed mine. ;)
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http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2630903,00.html
http://www.konami.co.jp/cs/new/pngsdw/ns-xb.html (hope you have japanese text turned on)
booya.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by Ashford
Just like a bunch of Sony fanboys defending their favorite company.
What exactly is your point?
Seems some people can\'t accept a differing opinion without moaning about how they\'re wrong and their fave game or company sucks.
And people complain about Tshirts bashing Devil May Cry and Twisted Metal Black and the PS2.
What does the Sony fanboy post have anything to do with what I said, are you saying I\'m a PS2 fanboy, and I know its just my opinion but thats hilarious saying its the BEST GAME EVER
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Shenmue has far more gameplay and is far longer of a game. Also, the cutscenes (such as dreams, death sequence, etc.) Set the story up. Their are hundreds if fewer cutscenes in Shenmue, while the last 2 hours of MGS2 is about 90% cutscene, and if you have beaten it, you know I am not joking.
possible spoliers*
After the virus is loaded and you are walking through the stomach, colon, etc. You HAVE to answer the codecs, many of which contain stupid pointless references to MGS, make no sense at all, and others that waste your time. Plus when Emma dies and all that stuff happens you are watching cutscene for like a straight half hour. That game puts me to sleep.
Good graphics, though, I must say. I was doing cartwheels with Raiden when he is naked and he has nothing down there!
;)
Eric Jacob
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The only thing I liked about Shenmue was playing the old Sega games in the arcade. The rest was pretty boring. Go to work, ask question, come back later, go to work.....crikey. I don\'t know what there was to enjoy about that game. It had so much potential.....but the execution was a snore fest.
At least in MGS2, there was the sniping to protect Emma, laying of claymores for good old pranks, taking dog tags, luring guards, good old strategy.
Shenmue had no strategy at all. All graphics and not much play.
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Shenmue has far more gameplay and is far longer of a game.
Well, I guess this will turn into a MGS vs Shenmue thread.
MGS takes about 12-15 hrs to beat. Same for Shenmue, so I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. And Shenmue is repetitve as hell, \'Have you seen the black dog\' .. \'About the woman with no eye..\' blah blah. Repeat that a hundred times just so the game can progress. Scene opens up, press \'X\' ,.. press Right, press \'Y\' .. So Beasty, no offense man, but you are talking out of your @$$. Shenmue is great and I f\'cking love it, but don\'t take away from MGS when Shenmue is loaded with problems. And don\'t give me that crap that the 3rd disc is great, yeah it is, but it shouldn\'t take 2 discs of repetitiveness to get there.
You don\'t like MGS, that\'s fine. But don\'t pretend that Shenmue is perfect, when it\'s far from it.
/ dm /
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MGS2 - I completed it in way under 15 hours. I can\'t remember off the top of my head, but I know that I played Shenmue longer than that! Damn those arcade games!
more gameplay, as in actually playing time. MGS2 has many more cutscenes and much more length in the cutscenes. In Shenmue I found myself wanting to skip only one, yet about everytime a cutscene would come on in MGS2 it went on for what seemed like hours.
Eric Jacob
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Beast,
Fair enough. But how much time was spent in Shenmue running from person to person asking the same exact question?
Or the time with your job, the same damn race every morning, and the same pick up crate, place crate. It was fun @ first, but it did get tiring.
Now spending time @ the arcade was an extra. :) That doesn\'t equate into actual gametime, IMO. Anyhow, it\'s like beating a dead horse, you don\'t think MGS is a great game, and it\'s not my job to convince you otherwise. The point is, Shenmue has problems, and there are plenty of reasons why someone wouldn\'t like it.
/ dm /
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This is a total vent about both games that I really need to get off my chest on this one so bear with me, there just may be a point after all this... and maybe not. ;)
I\'ll start with MGS2 though since that seems to be the much larger game in terms of scope and the scheme of things, but don\'t forget I am a pure MGS whore so I may just miss a few issues.
*Spoilers
The Codec
I think we can all agree that the Codec was probably the worst part of MGS2 substituting heavy amounts of dialogue that would have been much more interesting as a cut-scene then anything else. Looking at a face discuss issues and theories doesn\'t inspire me to delve deeper into the game. Where are the interesting plot driven and intense scenes present in the first MGS? Just how many scenes got your blood pumping like when the Ninja first appeared and cut the ARMSTECH president loose from the C4 or when Wolf put Meryl down in the first half of the game or when Mantis manipulated the dual shock and made you think he had true psychokinetic powers? Sure, the Fission Mailed scene was funny, but Emma Emmerich was in the game for about 30 minutes before getting whiped out and I could care less for her safety after that, especially since I got to know her through stupid nanomachines.
The Ending
After hearing about the Patriots objective with the S3 plan and Arsenal Gear, I could care less about anything else. Now I have to fight Solidus to save some child that can be used against me later? What for? Oh, and don\'t forget that dramatic plot twist that happened at the last second about Jack\'s parents being killed by Solidus... Could we have taken any longer to show that event?
You\'re all probably wondering why I didn\'t mention the Solid Snake to Raiden transition for 75% of the game, but the truth is, that didn\'t bother me at all. I had fun with Snake in MG, MG2, MGS, and a section of MGS2, I don\'t need him anymore, especially since the game plays off the fact that he really is getting old. It felt more real to me to be playing as someone new rather than the same old guy and I enjoyed the transition.
Now for Shenmue...
Mini Games
No matter how fun Hang-On, Space Harrier, or Darts can be, I will get bored after playing on them moreso than the actual game waiting for stores to open, people to be available, or before I go to work. Sometimes, gameplay can be had in a realm that is trying to present the player with reality. Take MGS for example... a game that plays off of heavy real-world events and themes, yet maintains a strong sense of gameplay within. "Turn the game console off right now!" No matter how real it is, it\'s still just a game and when people get bored of waiting for everyone else, they\'re going to want a few more options then a mini arcade.
The Lack of Gameplay
QTE... fights... explore... anything else? QTEs are incredibly fast and fights are even faster including the final battle which takes about three minutes or so to complete and this coupled with heavy spacing in between then just doesn\'t keep me interested. Exploring a real-world is great and all, but once I talk to lady A about thing B and visit place C, I feel like I\'m running errands rather than actually playing a game. The game is immersive, no doubt about that, but in my opinion, gameplay wise, I just find it hard to have a ton of fun playing something when most of the time is spent waiting for a shop to open, the sun to go down, or a random event. It just doesn\'t hook me, sadly.
Even though I am greatly anticipating Shenmue 2 and the scene where you and what appears to be a gang-member are handcuffed together, I still fear that it will be like the original Shenmue and lack the qualities that I desire for a game to truly be great.
What\'s the point after all that? Both games have faults. They both appear to improve on their predecessors greatly, but in no way are they absolutely perfect. I have gripes about them both and to say either is the best game ever is just ludicrous in my opinion. They\'re both great in their own way and that\'s all the point I am trying to make. I greatly respect Altered and LiC\'s opinion on MGS (that the series is overrated) but I don\'t think Shenmue is much better after having to hear you say that. Just being honest.
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I think the only difference I had in playing both games is in Shenmue, I WANTED to see the next cutscene or talk to the next guy. In MGS2, I wanted to actually play. I wanted to snipe, sneek, and shoot, but the game wouldn\'t let me, because otherwise I would miss the preachy story that lies within. I could only bear being interrupted so many times, after that, it just got silly.
Eric Jacob
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Not much replay value for Shenmue. Though I liked the game (to a point), I honestly couldn\'t play it again. As for MGS2, oh man...the second time through, press the square button and it will skip the entire codec dialogue! :D
And with Emma bent over like that, I couldn\'t resist but to have Raiden stand directly in front of her....or behind. :p HA!
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All good things must come to an end and then there\'s this thread.
Well anyway, I don\'t like it that Sony went after Bleem! or Napster. In fact, going after Napster pissed me off largely. And I don\'t give a rat\'s ass if you call me a pirate or not (just not an ass-pirate).
That\'s 2 things Sony did that I don\'t like, and add to that jerking me around on their 1-800 #. But at least that story had a happy ending.
So if you ask me if I like Sony my answer is, "I like my PS2".
And if you ask me if I like Microsoft my answer is, "Maybe the X-box"
And if you ask me if I sexually harass my female coworkers my answer is, "Am I on tape?"
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just not an ass-pirate
ASS-PIRATE!
weeee!
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i am a wee bit scared i mean i just found this on penny arcade and i am filled with dread that it could happen here too.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.penny-arcade.com%2Fimages%2F2000%2F20000712l.jpg&hash=a06884528f5843d6cf9f779debc7f2824fa089af)
Taken from well over a year ago BTW ;)
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2630903,00.html
http://www.konami.co.jp/cs/new/pngsdw/ns-xb.html (hope you have japanese text turned on)
booya.
Eric Jacob
Yes, gamespot.. Old news, I read that. But I also remember that Gamespot was one of the only one to say that it\'s "official". All the others at the time still said that it\'s something between part 1 and 2... so MGS 1.5 perhaps.
Do you have anything else that is OFFICIAL? Like perhaps something from a Konami press release? This proves nothing I\'m affraid. Get me that official info first, then I\'ll believe it.
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http://www.konami.co.jp/kcej/products/mgs2/topic/bbs/log002_e.html
That\'s the official BBS. Here are two posts and two replys that are interesting...
Hallo. I have a question about Metal gear Solid 2. Will Metal Gear Solid 2 com on the X-Box. Thanks for you time.
Hideo Kojima
Yes, the announcement was made.
I am the webmaster for MetalGear.Net and many of my readers have expressed their concerns of rumors about MGS2:SOL going on different platforms such as the Nintendo Game Cube, X-Box (naturally), not just the PS2. Is there any truth to this? If so, which system have you decided on, and if not which systems are you looking at for this possibility.Thank you for your time.
Hideo Kojima
MGS2 Sons of Liberty is for PS2. The program is so "tricky" that the game cannot be ported to a different console.
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Perhaps it is a totally new build of the game then? Or a whole new game together?
Eric Jacob
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I couldn\'t type what I thought it meant this morning because I was in such a rush to get out of the house, but, I can say why now. :)
I believe a port refers to a game being altered only slightly in order to play properly on a different console. However, since the PS2, the GCN, and the X-Box have architectures that differ greatly, simply porting the game would be impossible. They need to create a whole new graphical engine in order to make it work on the X-Box. I\'m sure it will have much higher res textures, FSAA, and whatever other added extras Konami is planning to make the game seem like a worthwhile purchase. The only concern I have is with the X-Box controller. There are only two pressure sensitive buttons on that thing while the PS2 controller has 8 and at least 4 of those are used to some degree in the final build. Perhaps an all new controller for the game? I highly doubt it, but there\'s a chance or they will jsut have to make sacrifices.
Anyways, to settle the debate, the X-Box is getting a version of Metal Gear Solid 2 that will have plenty of extras that I will be first in line to buy even though I have played the PS2 version to death now. Hey, what do you expect from an MGS whore? ;)
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thanks Ryu. it makes more sense now. Guess we all will just have to wait and see how MGSX shapes up to be. I for one am quite interested, although I won\'t (never) purchase a Xbox.
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Ok thanks for clearing that up Altered, you were right I was wrong on that one but I still disagree with you when comparing Shenmue and MGS2...
We\'ll just have to agree to disagree.
I know I\'ll get Shenmue 2 coz I really liked the story of the first one. Just hope they emphasize puzzle solving and the fighting aspects a little more than running around triggering cutscenes and QTEs.
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Originally posted by Ryu
Anyways, to settle the debate, the X-Box is getting a version of Metal Gear Solid 2 that will have plenty of extras that I will be first in line to buy even though I have played the PS2 version to death now. Hey, what do you expect from an MGS whore? ;) [/B]
WORD. I too am looking forward to MGSX. When I was playing MGS2, I was thinking to myself, "Dang, if the graphics look this good now, I can\'t imagine what they\'ll look like on the Xbox version."
That control issue is a big one. Analog is used for so much in that game, and I don\'t see how the game can be played without it. Like you said, sacrifices will have to be made. But I guess it\'s a price worth paying if the graphics are a lot better. And maybe it will have a couple extra endings too. :)