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Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: IronFist on December 09, 2001, 12:51:24 AM
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I finally got the chance to go over to my friends house and play SSBM for a few hours (and also got to try out the NGC controller for my first time -- my impressions below), and the thing that comes to my mind is, "This is the NGC\'s big game? This is the game that\'s supposed to support the NGC for the next six months until Mario or Zelda come out?"
The graphics:
When I first saw this game, I was absolutely shocked at how "average" the graphics looked. The game seemed to look so much better 6 months ago in the first movies. Now, it looks like SSB for the N64 with a higher polygon count and slightly better textures. Wasn\'t the NGC supposed to be a texturing powerhouse? SSBM says otherwise. The textures in this game make most PS2 games look up-to-par with textures. The backgrounds in most levels were bland and lacked any pizzaz to set this game apart from all the other average looking games out now. The game had the same blurry feel that most N64 games had too. And also, there was sometimes slowdown in the heat of the battle which surprised me because of how N64-like the graphics are.
One high point about this game\'s graphics is the originality and style. Some stages are completely 2d, some are 3d, and one even looks like one of those "Gigapets" keychain thingies with just black lines on a grey backdrop. Very cool. :)
The gameplay
You would think that having 2 or 3 years to play around with ideas for a sequel, they would come up with something. But nope, this game\'s gameplay is even more unchanged than that of DOA2 to DOA3. Most old characters are exactly the same as they were in SSB, getting no new moves. There are quite a few new people, but most of them are just clones of the old characters, ala Tekken 1\'s main characters and the hidden characters (having one or two different moves, but for the most part, being just the same). One new gameplay addition (actually, the only gameplay addition that I can think of) is the ability to thow your apponent in different directions. Wow. [/sarcasm off] Oh, and some of the weapons have slighty different attributes (i.e. the Hammer does a lot less damage.)
The new characters that I like most are the Princess and that little black "Gigapet" guy. :)
Some of the levels are just lame and really not fun to play on. One level is a 2d level with graphics like in the original Donkey Kong. The level keeps on falling (or the camera keeps on rising depending on how you think of it), and if you get left behind at the bottom of the screen, you die. Sometimes the camera starts moving down too, and the same rules apply if you go off the top of the screen. Other levels are like circus rides jumping from one object to the next trying to stay on the screen and fight at the same time. I can understand if the developers wanted to have more interativity with the environments, but this is not they way to do it IMO.
There are some levels that resemble the style of levels in the original, which I prefer. So it\'s not all bad.
Sound/Music
The sound is good (very similar to that of SSB)
The Music, for the most part, is a big improvement over SSB. This CD type storage really helped out. But there are still some songs taken from really old games like Super Mario Bros 2, not recomposed or anything. :(
Controls:
This is where I post my impressions of the NGC controller and how well it worked for this game. Overall, the NGC controller is nice, but it is way overhyped. As you have probably heard, the d-pad is way too small. Fortunately, the analog works good in this game so the d-pad isn\'t needed. The z button is tucked away like people have said, but it isn\'t hard to hit by any means. It does feel a little wierd, but it is a lot more accessable than some of the buttons on the Xbox controller. The face buttons are very accessable, but for some reason, I kept on using the B button as my primary button instead of the A button. When I first started playing, I kept on accidentally unselecting the player on the character select screen because of the B button. Overall, the controls were a lot better than in SSB on the N64 (because the controller is so much better than the trash Nintendo likes to call the N64 controller), so I was happy with that. :)
So I like the controller, but I was expecting more. The Xbox controller feels a lot more comfortible to hold, but the NGC buttons layout is better. The PS2 controller is still number 1 due to the fact that it doesn\'t have any wierd, hard to reach buttons, has the most buttons and most analog buttons, and that it\'s the only controller with 4 shoulder buttons (a must for next gen games IMO).
So what\'s with all the hype of Super Smash Bros Melee? Why is this game making the Gamecube sell so well in Japan, and why the heck did it get such a high score from Famitsu (it got in the high 30s, like 37 or or something like that)? If this is a sign of what\'s to come on the NGC, I have no desire to ever buy one myself. Hopefully Mario Sunshine will be more than just a rehash of Mario64, and zelda will be more than "more of the same gameplay" with a changed graphical style. I don\'t know how many Nintendo fans or SSBM fans frequent these forums, so I am considering posting this at a Nintendo forum. :)
For those of you who have played it, what do you think about it? Does it suck, or does it rock?
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LOL!! Is it that bad? I read in a review that it had some bad back grounds. We just bought our kids for Christmas a GameCube with StarWars and be picking up 2 or 3 more other games for this system. I can\'t wait to play the GameCube and see how good it is too. :D
I\'m thinking of picking up Pikmin. Looks fun!! Damn those textures look sweet.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gaming-age.com%2Fpreviews%2Fgamecube%2Fpikmin%2F5.jpg&hash=c1c0f1a65d73b0653baa5b190917a9621420596c)
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Hello! I\'m a little unsure of what you are attempting to accomplish here? Is it a hands on impressions article? A hatred rant? Or a full blown review? It seems to be in the style of a review, so I\'ll just assume that\'s it and respond accordingly. I have had this game since the day it came out, and have already logged in over 30 hours into it. It is my fourth GCN game, btw, so I\'ve definitely adjusted to the controller by now, not that I really needed to! :-D
I finally got the chance to go over to my friends house and play SSBM for a few hours (and also got to try out the NGC controller for my first time -- my impressions below), and the thing that comes to my mind is, "This is the NGC\'s big game? This is the game that\'s supposed to support the NGC for the next six months until Mario or Zelda come out?"
I wouldn\'t say it\'s supposed to hold me out until Zelda or Mario, but it will definitely hold me out until January, when more great games start arriving, and even more to arrive in Feb, March, etc. If this is supposed to be a review, then I can assure you that a few hours at a friends house definitely does not satisfy. My 30+ hours are not yet enough!
When I first saw this game, I was absolutely shocked at how "average" the graphics looked. The game seemed to look so much better 6 months ago in the first movies. Now, it looks like SSB for the N64 with a higher polygon count and slightly better textures. Wasn\'t the NGC supposed to be a texturing powerhouse? SSBM says otherwise. The textures in this game make most PS2 games look up-to-par with textures.
Hmmm. I\'ve seen the old videos, and I\'ve even played a demo version of this title awhile back at our Cube Clubs here in NY. There is absolutely no doubt that this final version is superior. The fact that the game can pull off 4 playable characters on screen at once, with an active camera, ridiculously animated and interactive stages, and a wealth of on screen items, summons, and special effects is a testament to the GCN\'s power. The texture work, particularly on the character models is actually quite impressive. Especially if you pause and zoom/pan the camera and/or access the Camera mode. The modelling on Link\'s Master Sword and Hylian Shield, the texture work on Mario\'s overalls (OMG, they actually look like jeans now!), etc are all exquisite. However, in actual gameplay, and especially with more than 2 characters on screen at once, the camera will zoom out greatly in order to capture all of the action on screen at once.
The backgrounds in most levels were bland and lacked any pizzaz to set this game apart from all the other average looking games out now. The game had the same blurry feel that most N64 games had too. And also, there was sometimes slowdown in the heat of the battle which surprised me because of how N64-like the graphics are.
With 30 stages at your disposal, I refuse to believe that you can summarily dismiss them as bland or lacking pizzaz. Either you didn\'t play enough, or not enough levels were unlocked... or both. The graphics in the game are absolutely crisp and clear, as is expected in a next gen console. Now, in the options, you have the choice of toggling "Deflicker" on and off. I keep it on, and it does give the game a softer look with its FSAA (full screen anti aliasing), but you can also set it off to get a sharper (although somewhat aliased) view. I have unlocked the majority of the levels myself, and the only one to slow down was F Zero Grand Prix - Big Blue. The reason being? You are fighting in the middle of a ridiculous Grand Prix race! Literally hopping from car to car attempting to avoid the tracks and death. It is an extremely fast and heavily animated stage, and does in fact tax the system. As far as stages lacking "pizzaz," those stages remixed from the original do in fact lack interactivity and features when compared to the new and exclusive GCN ones. However, the N64 original was meant to be more "retro" and nostalgic than this one is intended, so it makes sense. If you had experienced Kraid\'s rotating of the entire arena in Planet Zebes - Brinstar Depths and many other stages, you cannot truly gripe about interactivity. I actually appreciate the variety, because sometimes you\'ll want to fight in a hectic and distracting stage, and others you will want a pure "skills" match and keep the arena fairly static.
One high point about this game\'s graphics is the originality and style. Some stages are completely 2d, some are 3d, and one even looks like one of those "Gigapets" keychain thingies with just black lines on a grey backdrop. Very cool. :)
You must be talking about Mr. Game & Watch Gallery and his stage... I have yet to unlock those, but I can\'t wait! Old School rocks!
You would think that having 2 or 3 years to play around with ideas for a sequel, they would come up with something. But nope, this game\'s gameplay is even more unchanged than that of DOA2 to DOA3.
Did you play the original or are you just assuming here? Or again, you didn\'t play this one enough. The throwing system (which was incredibly cheap in SSB) was replaced with a grapple system that is much more fair and much less powerful, yet no less strategic. You can now grab, smack, and attempt a throw. The whole time, the victim can attempt to break out. Also, the ability to control the direction of the throw is vital in all out melee, because you can literally, knock one foe into a few others, something near impossible in the first. Secondly, a much more defensive game is now possible, with the addition of the avoids! By tapping L/R you bring up your shield, just like in the first game. This time, by tilting the stick lightly, you can change the coverage area of the shield, and thereby reflect items thrown at your in various directions. Not only that, but by tilting the stick downwards, you drop you shield and avoid (sidestep) incoming attacks and projectiles. Your relatively vulnerability in the original while in midair has been countered with the implementation of this avoid system in midair. Tap L/R while in midair for the standard avoid, and control your landing by tilting in one of the four cardinal directions while tapping L/R to avoid. Not only that, but if someone throws an item at you while you are jumping or flying, a perfectly executed airborne avoid will have your character actually pluck the item from midair, allowing you to rapidly counterattack! This is especially crucial with the more-chaotic-than-ever Pokeballs! :-D It can change the tide of battle, no doubt!
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Most old characters are exactly the same as they were in SSB, getting no new moves. There are quite a few new people, but most of them are just clones of the old characters, ala Tekken 1\'s main characters and the hidden characters (having one or two different moves, but for the most part, being just the same). One new gameplay addition (actually, the only gameplay addition that I can think of) is the ability to thow your apponent in different directions. Wow. [/sarcasm off] Oh, and some of the weapons have slighty different attributes (i.e. the Hammer does a lot less damage.)
With all due respect, this statement is completely false. Many of the A Button attacks ("normal" moves) have been tweaked and/or changed for the 12 returning characters. Many of the "priorities" particularly in midair have been altered, not to mention animations. The Smash Attacks for each character now have "meteor attack" flavors, literally allowing you to hold down A to "charge" the smash attack and unleash more devastating incarnations of said attacks. Smash Attacks were also changed, and some (like Link\'s) are double fisted and comboable. The first game had 3 B Button attacks ("special" moves) for each character, where as SSB Melee features 4 per characters. Obviously, each of the 12 returning combatants gained a new move, yet still some old special moves were also tweaked and "reprioritized." Don\'t forget that with the inclusion of 13 additional characters, the balance for the game had to be completely redesigned, and this is, in fact represented in significant gameplay changes, even/especially for returning characters.
The sound is good (very similar to that of SSB)
The Music, for the most part, is a big improvement over SSB. This CD type storage really helped out. But there are still some songs taken from really old games like Super Mario Bros 2, not recomposed or anything. :(
Yeah, the orchestrated remixes are truly stunning. Termina, Hyrule Temple, Mute City, Big Blue, Brinstar, Fountain of Dreams, these will all bring tears to the eyes of retro Nintendo gamers! :-D
And yes, there are two Mario stages (Mushroom Kingdoms I $ II) whose tunes are completely unchanged from their 8-bit incarnations. However, considering that both stages are "bonus" stages (Mario games get 4 stages in this game, the first 2 are completely orchestrated) it is forgivable... especially since many aspects of Melee are a retro museum of sorts. Have you heard the stunning (orchestrated, of course) Fire Emblem theme yet!? G-d... BTW, in general, each Nintendo franchise represented in Melee by a character gets 2 stages. Mario games have 4, so 2 orchestrated and 2 retro is completely justifiable.
I won\'t bother commenting on your controller comments, as that is strictly a matter of opinion and personal preference. The controls for the game are spot on, the controller is quite comfortable, imho, more so than the N64 one, no doubt. And I am positive with more gametime, you\'d easily overcome your B-instead-of-A button tendencies! ;)
So what\'s with all the hype of Super Smash Bros Melee? Why is this game making the Gamecube sell so well in Japan, and why the heck did it get such a high score from Famitsu (it got in the high 30s, like 37 or or something like that)? If this is a sign of what\'s to come on the NGC, I have no desire to ever buy one myself. Hopefully Mario Sunshine will be more than just a rehash of Mario64, and zelda will be more than "more of the same gameplay" with a changed graphical style. I don\'t know how many Nintendo fans or SSBM fans frequent these forums, so I am considering posting this at a Nintendo forum. :)
For those of you who have played it, what do you think about it? Does it suck, or does it rock?
Hey, no need to post at a Nintendo forum, you got a Nin-fan right here! But honestly, I don\'t feel that you have played or experienced enough of this game for your opinions and views to be found at all justified to Nintendo fan boys (if that is even possible, btw.) But that\'s up to you, of course. I believe that the game did get a 37 (Platinum) from Famitsu, and imho, it was more than justified. The original was a pretty tight package for it\'s time, and this one is so complete it makes other games pale in comparison. With over quadruple the amount of single player modes, more than triple the amount of multiplayer features and control, more than double the characters, and about quadruple the amount of stages (and awesome songs) this game is a true gem. It will remain unrivaled on the GCN or any other system for many years to come. Melee, like its predecessor, provide a very unique brand of gameplay that still hasn\'t been realized on any other console, and only ups the ante for this system and all others. It will be one of those few games whose longevity and uniqueness will easily span the entire console\'s life.
In fact, I got into SSB 64 a bit late, due to it\'s almost complete lack of a satisfying single player mode. However, I still managed to put in a daily (or near daily) SSB session by playing team battles in multiplayer mode against 3 vicious cpu-controlled simulants. The AI and variety in Melee have been drastically upped, and the single player modes alone here have kept me up until 8am since it came out! Trust me, rent it if you are not convinced, but SSB fans have something to truly rejoice over!
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Ugh... this forum is limiting my message size. I forgot to counter your "clones" argument and feel a need to respond.
It is true that 6 of the 11 hidden characters are pseudo-clones of 6 others, but there are some vast differences. To set the record straight, the two who are most similar are Mario and Dr. Mario. Really, the only changes between them are walking speed, jump height, and their projectiles. The trajectory for Dr. Mario\'s megavitamin pills is different than Mario\'s fireballs.
However, other characters, like Young Link (Link), Ganondorf (Captain Falcon), Pichu (Pikachu), and the two Fire Emblem Princes Roy & Marth are completely different. Aside from the A button attack differences and attack priority differences, these characters also share drastic gameplay differences from their "original inspiration."
Perhaps the most drastic are the changes between Link/Young Link and Prince Marth/Prince Roy. Young Link\'s Hookshot, Boomerang, and Bow ranges are all shorter, and his Kokiri Sword has less power and reach than Link\'s Master Sword. Young Link\'s bow is of the Fire element, he runs much faster, jumps much higher, and is much more maneuverable than Link. Likewise, his Spin Attack (midair and ground) is more damaging (it now combos repeatedly when it hits) and less powerful (sends \'em flying less far.)
Likewise there are drastic differences between Marth and Roy. Marth is more nimble, quicker, and jumps higher, and is more elegant with his one handed sword play. He is a great hit and run character, as all of his moves hit just once. Roy, on the other hand, is a bit slower and jumps much lower, all of his sword attacks flame, and some of his more powerful A and B button sword attacks hit repeatedly and combo. Also, he handles his Sword of Seals differently during the Dancing Blades attack than Marth does in his, not to mention the completely different Sword Smash...
Pichu and Pikachu are also somewhat similar. The biggest difference is that Pichu is probably the smallest target in the game, a bit more nimble, and requires more strategy. His Lightning Storm does combo, but since he is an unevolved (baby) Pokemon, he can\'t handle electricity as well as Pikachu. Consequently, all of his lightning attacks cause him a tiny bit of damage as well! :o
Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are so different from each other, you\'d be hardpressed to find anyone who can play them the same. Ganondorf is much heavier and less agile than Falcon, and probably has among the worst jumping abilities of all characters! However, almost all of his punch attacks have a great (and evil) purple aura, and his version of the Falcon Punch (I think it\'s called the Gerudo Dragon?) is probably the slowest, yet most devastating move in the game.
I have yet to unlock Falco Lombardi, Star Fox Mcloud\'s "clone", so I can\'t really comment on that. But all perhaps one or two of these clone characters require completely different strategies to play successfully with...
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This makes my life easier. I don\'t have to make a new thread or offer too much that has yet to be touched up on in this game either negatively or positively. I\'m just going to offer a different perspective on it instead. This is easier than writing a review! ;)
First Things First
I hated Smash Bros on the N64. Maybe it was because I loathed the controller or maybe I just hated the system, I\'m not sure, but I definitely had a big beef with its total lack of skill required in playing it. Hell, I am a Street Fighter III fan afterall and that game is all about skill. I utterly detested button mashers and Smash Bros was the epitome of that hatred. Hell, just the fact that the game abused Nintendo franchises like so many other of its first party developed games gave me enough reason to yet pile on the Nintendo hatred.
Of course, after saying all this, I only sat down with the game for a good hour or two and when I walked away, I felt the same way you did, Ironfist, but that all changed tonight, the first time I got to really sit down and play a Smash Bros game in the form of Super Smash Bros Melee.
The Truth
This game is not deep. It is quite the opposite actually in my opinions still maintaining that sense of being a button masher that I so loathed years ago when the first SB came out. Although I admit to referring to DOA3 as being a button masher, perhaps that\'s not such a bad thing for Smash Bros. Unlike Itagaki, Nintendo doesn\'t claim Smash Bros as being the greatest fighter ever released. Hell, it doesn\'t even fit into the same category as any of the 2D or 3D fighters we are all accustomed to such as Soul Calibur, Tekken, DOA, or Street Fighter. In fact, calling SSB:M a button masher is quite accurate, yet that isn\'t a knock against the game at all. This all sounds strange, but let me explain.
Super Smash Bros Melee is nothing but mindless nonsensical fun. There\'s a goal, an overall theme, great Nintendo franchise characters (albiet overused), with some neat weapons, backgrounds, music, and attacks. Sure, each one of those attributes has a fault in some way, but in no way does it detract from the overall sense of fun. In fact, I\'m almost positive this game was engineered so people who were newbies or veterans could jump right in and own like the rest after a solid hour of play time. There is no game on the market that plays like it, but there is no fighter on the market as easy to master either as well as enjoy.
The Nitty Gritty
The backgrounds are exceptional depending on what arena you choose ranging from astounding to just plain ugly. The Pokemon arean level is of particular interest seeing as how it morphs on the fly and the Termina field is quite amazing for that nostalgic sense. However, the Ice Climbers stage and Yoshi\'s stage are both fairly lame and poor in design. It fluctuates from arena to arena and I admit to not being able to playing them all, but for the most part, there are some good and some bad and some that are just amazing.
The graphics are pretty damn simple displaying lots of vibrant colors, plenty of flashy animations, and lots of activity on screen at once. The best parts displaying the real show of the power of this console is when the backgrounds morph on the fly while 4 poke balls open up spewing out pokemon characters that wreak havoc on the unsuspecting swine traipsing straight to their doom. The far off backgrounds other than the level itself are fairly simple yet boring at the same time. It keeps the theme with most levels, but as a whole, the floating island concept doesn\'t really sit too well with me since that\'s what most stages look like even though being islands are integral to the gameplay.
The sounds is probably the best part for me orchestrating some of the best Nintendo tunes to date. Termina Field and the F-zero songs are particularly amazing. There are some tracks the game could do without, but the good definitely outweigh the bad. I\'d definitely download a few of these mp3\'s if it ever came available in high quality CD renditions. The voices are standard fighting screams and pain yells as any other and I\'m not too impressed by them, but it\'s nice to hear the Japanese voices of these characters, escpecially the Fire Emblem characters.
Final Thoughts
Intended simple gameplay meets good graphics with some originality. I\'ll be playing this game for quite some time and I could see me and three random friends enjoying it for a good solid gaming session (6 hours) whenever we started. It offers that simplicity that isn\'t found in Street Fighter while still maintaining a level of fun that is just unsurpassed by any multiplayer brawler. I\'ll admit that I would not see this game as too much fun if it wasn\'t for the franchise characters, but they do fit in this world in more ways then one despite their different backgrounds.
I believe the developers goal when they envisioned this game was a simple fighter that anyone could get into and if that was the case, they pulled it off nicely. It\'s always fun unwinding with a bit of non-strategic button mashing from time to time. It\'s the flashy effects and the great characters that will keep me and my friends coming back for more.
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Ok let\'s admit that it isn\'t for everybody. It\'s just what Ryu says it. It\'s not a fighter. It\'s mindless fun.
http://cubemedia.ign.com/media/news/image/features/starfoxcompare1.jpg
looks just a little better.
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That what I was saying its overhyped and its crap. There real fighter out there like Tekken, VF, SC, Snk vs. Capcom, and DOA3. Those are real fighter.:fro: :fro:
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Originally posted by rastalant
That what I was saying its overhyped and its crap. There real fighter out there like Tekken, VF, SC, Snk vs. Capcom, and DOA3. Those are real fighter.:fro: :fro:
Speaking of fighting games, why didn\'t you list Guilty Gear (x)??? I mean, that is what your pic is all about, Testament that is.
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If you liked the first one will you like this one?
I dont care if its mindless fun..... as long as it is fun.
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WOW! Look what IGN.com gave this game. I think this game is neat because it has all your favorite nintendo characters in one game.
Presentation
All the retro Nintendo franchises wrapped into one, neat, feature-filled package. Amazing. 10.0
Graphics
It\'s fast and furious, but still has some so-so background work. That said, most of the up-close visuals are great, but past that everything is average. 8.0
Sound
Take all of your favorite Nintendo themes and orchestrate them to perfection. This is one of the best soundtracks in history, despite being based on pre-composed themes. 10.0
Gameplay
An expansive single-player mode and a deep multiplayer mode make SSB Melee hard to put down. 9.0
Lasting Appeal
Nearly 300 beautifully rendered trophies to collect, a stellar multiplayer mode, and tons of characters, stages, and options. It couldn\'t get much better than this. 10.0
OVERALL SCORE (not an average)
9.6
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I think it is garbage. It is fun for about 2 hours with friends, then the entire lack of gameplay hits you like a rock.
Eric Jacob
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That what I was saying its overhyped and its crap. There real fighter out there like Tekken, VF, SC, Snk vs. Capcom, and DOA3. Those are real fighter.
You always make me laugh Rast, always. "Real fighters," yah, that\'s funny as hell. If SSB:M were trying to be a real fighter, then some of the moves would be a little bit more difficult to pull off. It\'s like a one button super game and you don\'t like it because it\'s not a "real fighter." That\'s hilarious. You herald DOA3 as a "real fighter" yet shun SSB:M? I hate DOA3 because it tries to be what it isn\'t, but SSB:M doesn\'t even pop-out as trying at all.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Speaking of fighting games, why didn\'t you list Guilty Gear (x)??? I mean, that is what your pic is all about, Testament that is.
Oops......I forgot GGX is one of best fighter ever. Yes............Testament rules!!!!! Now thats a game!!!!
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Originally posted by Ryu
You always make me laugh Rast, always. "Real fighters," yah, that\'s funny as hell. If SSB:M were trying to be a real fighter, then some of the moves would be a little bit more difficult to pull off. It\'s like a one button super game and you don\'t like it because it\'s not a "real fighter." That\'s hilarious. You herald DOA3 as a "real fighter" yet shun SSB:M? I hate DOA3 because it tries to be what it isn\'t, but SSB:M doesn\'t even pop-out as trying at all.
Well........I think DOA3 is a great fighter I liked doa2 a lot. It was one of the best fighters on ps2 and dc. I think its hyprocity to get on doa3 with shallow while you people say nothing about that crap SSB:Melee. I mean its overhyped, kiddy, and shallow thats my opinion. You say doa3 sucks, but SSB:Melee is great? OOKAAAYYYY. Thats my opinion about the situation....... Btw, when is a "real" fighter coming out for gamecube?
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I do not think this game is aweful (maybe saying "SSMB is overhyped garbage" was exagerating a little bit), but I still think that it is way over rated. IMO, this game is not worthy of the 37 it got from Famitsu, or the 9.6 it got from IGN. The only thing that really makes the gameplay better is the fact that the controller is actually good unlike the N64 controller. ;) I obviously need to spend more time with it, but from what I have seen (I\'ve played on all but 4 levels, and played with every character), it really isn\'t that big of a sequel. But because this game is a completely different type of fighting game, I may be judging it based on things that I shouldn\'t be. Does it matter that the characters don\'t have too many new moves? I think it does, but SSB fans probably don\'t care. I really don\'t understand the cult following of SSBM.
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Originally posted by rastalant
Well........I think DOA3 is a great fighter I liked doa2 a lot. It was one of the best fighters on ps2 and dc. I think its hyprocity to get on doa3 with shallow while you people say nothing about that crap SSB:Melee. I mean its overhyped, kiddy, and shallow thats my opinion. You say doa3 sucks, but SSB:Melee is great? OOKAAAYYYY. Thats my opinion about the situation....... Btw, when is a "real" fighter coming out for gamecube?
I agree with Ryu on this one. DOA3 is hyped by the developers to be the ultimate 3D fighting game -- trying to outclass other 3D fighters in every way but failing miserably. SSBM on the other hand is 100% original, not trying to be something it\'s not. It is actually meant to be a button smasher because that is the type of game it is. What\'s DOA3\'s excuse?
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Originally posted by IronFist
I do not think this game is aweful (maybe saying "SSMB is overhyped garbage" was exagerating a little bit), but I still think that it is way over rated. IMO, this game is not worthy of the 37 it got from Famitsu, or the 9.6 it got from IGN. The only thing that really makes the gameplay better is the fact that the controller is actually good unlike the N64 controller. ;) I obviously need to spend more time with it, but from what I have seen (I\'ve played on all but 4 levels, and played with every character), it really isn\'t that big of a sequel. But because this game is a completely different type of fighting game, I may be judging it based on things that I shouldn\'t be. Does it matter that the characters don\'t have too many new moves? I think it does, but SSB fans probably don\'t care. I really don\'t understand the cult following of SSBM.
I agree 110% ironfist. The reason it proably got such a big following on n64 cause it was proably the best fighter on the system which isn\'t saying much.
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Originally posted by rastalant
Well........I think DOA3 is a great fighter I liked doa2 a lot. It was one of the best fighters on ps2 and dc. I think its hyprocity to get on doa3 with shallow while you people say nothing about that crap SSB:Melee. I mean its overhyped, kiddy, and shallow thats my opinion. You say doa3 sucks, but SSB:Melee is great? OOKAAAYYYY. Thats my opinion about the situation....... Btw, when is a "real" fighter coming out for gamecube?
You don\'t understand what I\'m trying to say. Ironfist pretty much nailed it on the head with his post in response to you, but I\'ll bring the facts home again. DOA3 tries to be everything good that Tekken, VF, and SC is, but it fails in every possible way. It\'s not the world\'s greatest 3D fighter and it\'s not even a good fighter in my opinion. The difference between SSB:M and DOA3 though, which is what you seem to be misunderstanding, is that SSB:M is not trying to be everything, it\'s not trying to be the world\'s greatest fighter, and it definitely doesn\'t one-up any other 3D next-gen fighter today. The purpose of the game is so people can quickly hop into 4-player battles and be able to master the game almost as soon as they learn the basics simply because it\'s just a mindless button masher. It doesn\'t have any serious depth or any serious overtones.
It\'s an incredibly basic fighter that anyone can jump into quickly and start wailing away. That\'s what it tries to be and that\'s what it pulls off nicely. It\'s in a class all its own. Still though, your main gripe is that it\'s "kiddy" so reasoning with you about something like this is like reasoning with Docwiz about anything.
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Guilty Gear X is a bigger masher than DOA3, by far, that game, while beautiful, is boring. I just can\'t see any hardcore fighting fan play that when Garou: Mark of the Wolves just came out!
Eric Jacob
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I just can\'t see any hardcore fighting fan play that when Garou: Mark of the Wolves just came out!
Why the hell do you think I changed my picture to Rock Howard?! ;)
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I was actually gonna ask you about that. ;)
Can you do that move in the instruction booklet of his that is like 10 buttons long? I would love to see it pulled off!
You couldn\'t beat my Butt (:)) or Terry though :p
Eric Jacob
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Yes, I can, it\'s called the Neo Deadly Rave. Not at will though. It\'s incredibly difficult and requires the maximum super bar. It\'s incredibly flashy and takes off lots of damage, but overall, the damage it takes off isn\'t worth it. A max Raging storm (or Raising storm) takes off about the same amount. The only satisfaction it gives you is just in doing it once. Afterwards, it\'s kinda pointless. It\'s not worth all the effort really.
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Bah.
I\'ve been playing Garou on my, err um, well nm. I\'ll probably go ahead and get the DC version anyhow. No loading right? ;)
(on topic)
Why the animosity against SSMB? It\'s not supposed to contend against VF/Tekken/DOA/etc. It\'s more of a PowerStone type game.
And Ironfist, I think you need to spend some more time. While I agree that some backgrounds aren\'t too snazzy, the character models are nice.
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Heh, if I understand you Data, me and you have been playing that game for a very long time through our hidden ways. Oh, and there is no loading at all.
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Heh, if I understand you Data, me and you have been playing that game for a very long time through our hidden ways. Oh, and there is no loading at all.
I think you understand me just fine. :) Though I would like to support SNK and actually own it for the DC. Now if only my six button Ascii pad would arrive... (damn buyrite - I know, they\'re horrible.)
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Originally posted by Ryu
You don\'t understand what I\'m trying to say. Ironfist pretty much nailed it on the head with his post in response to you, but I\'ll bring the facts home again. DOA3 tries to be everything good that Tekken, VF, and SC is, but it fails in every possible way. It\'s not the world\'s greatest 3D fighter and it\'s not even a good fighter in my opinion. The difference between SSB:M and DOA3 though, which is what you seem to be misunderstanding, is that SSB:M is not trying to be everything, it\'s not trying to be the world\'s greatest fighter, and it definitely doesn\'t one-up any other 3D next-gen fighter today. The purpose of the game is so people can quickly hop into 4-player battles and be able to master the game almost as soon as they learn the basics simply because it\'s just a mindless button masher. It doesn\'t have any serious depth or any serious overtones.
It\'s an incredibly basic fighter that anyone can jump into quickly and start wailing away. That\'s what it tries to be and that\'s what it pulls off nicely. It\'s in a class all its own. Still though, your main gripe is that it\'s "kiddy" so reasoning with you about something like this is like reasoning with Docwiz about anything.
Uhhhhhhhhhhh.........DOA3 is one of the best if not the best 3d fighters imo. Plus all the rating were very high for it. All reviewers said it was good so not everyone can be wrong. As for SSB:M thats the problem its a mindless button masher with kiddy character, but from nintendo fans its praise a one of the best fighters. I consider it crap and thats my opinion. DOA3 is one of the best games I\'ve played in a long time, compared to the other ones(3d fighters) its opinion which one is the best. There no doubt doa3 ranks a one of the best to me.
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Originally posted by rastalant
Uhhhhhhhhhhh.........DOA3 is one of the best if not the best 3d fighters imo. Plus all the rating were very high for it. All reviewers said it was good so not everyone can be wrong. As for SSB:M thats the problem its a mindless button masher with kiddy character, but from nintendo fans its praise a one of the best fighters. I consider it crap and thats my opinion. DOA3 is one of the best games I\'ve played in a long time, compared to the other ones(3d fighters) its opinion which one is the best. There no doubt doa3 ranks a one of the best to me.
I can\'t stand DOA3 and for you to call SSB:M a button smasher is funny, thats all DOA3 is, that and cheap counters, and thats all you say about nintendo is that its kiddy, so you have no hope, once you get the kiddy bull**** out of your head I\'ll be able to debate with you about this
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Yeah, you pirates, I had it on my PC too! But I will much rather play it on my DC with my DC to Saturn pad adaptor!
Eric Jacob
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Bozco, it is painfully obvious that you have never played DOA3, so please don\'t rehash tired old arguments.
I\'ve not played SSBM, so I can\'t comment, but the N64 version was fun in a mindless sort of way. I liked it.
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You guys need to stop all this crap, and just start playing games for fun agian, i haven\'t been on the net for a while and i have been playing HALO and MGS2 and GC Star wars and have been having some much fun, and i think it is because i am not reading all you people keep putting every game down.
PLEASE JUST PLAY THE GAMES FOR ABIT OF FUN, AND STOP LOOKING FOR BAD THINGS IN GAMES ALL THE TIME!!!:(
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REALLY!!?? WHAT A SURPRISE!!!!!!! THIS GAME IS ROCKIN\' in the 5-8 AGE CATEGORY!
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Originally posted by IronFist
I agree with Ryu on this one. DOA3 is hyped by the developers to be the ultimate 3D fighting game -- trying to outclass other 3D fighters in every way but failing miserably. SSBM on the other hand is 100% original, not trying to be something it\'s not. It is actually meant to be a button smasher because that is the type of game it is. What\'s DOA3\'s excuse?
Don\'t go bashing doa3. Because your precious tekken has been nothing but the exact same game for the past 3 installments of the series. And tekken is as cheesy as doa3. They both are button smashers.
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Originally posted by Ryu
You don\'t understand what I\'m trying to say. Ironfist pretty much nailed it on the head with his post in response to you, but I\'ll bring the facts home again. DOA3 tries to be everything good that Tekken, VF, and SC is, but it fails in every possible way. It\'s not the world\'s greatest 3D fighter and it\'s not even a good fighter in my opinion. The difference between SSB:M and DOA3 though, which is what you seem to be misunderstanding, is that SSB:M is not trying to be everything, it\'s not trying to be the world\'s greatest fighter, and it definitely doesn\'t one-up any other 3D next-gen fighter today. The purpose of the game is so people can quickly hop into 4-player battles and be able to master the game almost as soon as they learn the basics simply because it\'s just a mindless button masher. It doesn\'t have any serious depth or any serious overtones.
It\'s an incredibly basic fighter that anyone can jump into quickly and start wailing away. That\'s what it tries to be and that\'s what it pulls off nicely. It\'s in a class all its own. Still though, your main gripe is that it\'s "kiddy" so reasoning with you about something like this is like reasoning with Docwiz about anything.
Ok cut the bull out Ryu. IF you have something against xbox or doa3 just say it. Don\'t just shout any bull out of your mouth. Don\'t sit on this forum and call Doa3 a button then say Soulcalibur and tekken are not button smashers as well. Tekken is not all that deep. Soulcalibur is not all that deep. And niether is DOA3. But don\'t come in here and shout such one sided comments.
And niehter of the games are button smashers when experiences players are playing against each other. But for the most part they ALL(NOT ONE)are button smashers.
I like all three of the games but it is very one-sided to knock on Doa3 when all 3 games have there share of button smashing.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Don\'t go bashing doa3. Because your precious tekken has been nothing but the exact same game for the past 3 installments of the series. And tekken is as cheesy as doa3. They both are button smashers.
Oh brother, not this again. :rolleyes: I would say something to defend my precious Tekken series, but there really is no point defending it against people who don\'t know what they\'re talking about. (Saying "Soulcalibur is not deep" proves you are just bashing other fighting games to make DOA3 look better.)
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Originally posted by IronFist
Oh brother, not this again. :rolleyes: I would say something to defend my precious Tekken series, but there really is no point defending it against people who don\'t know what they\'re talking about. (Saying "Soulcalibur is not deep" proves you are just bashing other fighting games to make DOA3 look better.)
First of the game is not all that deep to be putting down doa3.
Second mashing a number of buttons, and then drumming a few of combos is a easy way to win in the game. And half of the cast of characters are just mixes of other characters.
And I am not saying soulcalibur is not a great game. Because It\'s awesome. But don\'t put it on a high pedistal and derail Doa3 because the schematics of both games are very simular.
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Originally posted by Bozco
I can\'t stand DOA3 and for you to call SSB:M a button smasher is funny, thats all DOA3 is, that and cheap counters, and thats all you say about nintendo is that its kiddy, so you have no hope, once you get the kiddy bull**** out of your head I\'ll be able to debate with you about this
Uhhhhhhhh........so your saying SSB:Melee is deeper than doa3??!?!?! I don\'t think so!!!! Thats my opinion I think doa3 as a game blows SSB:Melee its funner, deeper, and just a better game. SSB:Melee is very overated to me.
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Originally posted by OHMYGOD
REALLY!!?? WHAT A SURPRISE!!!!!!! THIS GAME IS ROCKIN\' in the 5-8 AGE CATEGORY!
Exactly thats what I\'ve been saying, but nintendo fans bash doa3. Yet its better than that crappy ssb:melee, I me the gameplay is ssssssooooooo shallow. That crap..........
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DOA3 is a victim of crowd mentality. One person says it\'s a button masher and now it\'s the thing to say. DOA3 is every bit as deep as Tekken or Soul Caliber. Everyone thinks SC is the greatest game ever because Fatismu gave it a perfect score. Tekken was hailed as a great fighter because Sony supporters didn\'t have VF and thus had to elevated this series.
Now that people have their favourites, DOA3 must be religated to the button mashing category because there is so little precious space in the closed minds of gamers.
And please, someone tell me why Tekken is infinitely deeper than DOA3, because I\'d love to hear it.
All three of these fighters are merely second rate imitations of VF, so who really cares anyway.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
DOA3 is a victim of crowd mentality. One person says it\'s a button masher and now it\'s the thing to say. DOA3 is every bit as deep as Tekken or Soul Caliber. Everyone thinks SC is the greatest game ever because Fatismu gave it a perfect score. Tekken was hailed as a great fighter because Sony supporters didn\'t have VF and thus had to elevated this series.
Now that people have their favourites, DOA3 must be religated to the button mashing category because there is so little precious space in the closed minds of gamers.
And please, someone tell me why Tekken is infinitely deeper than DOA3, because I\'d love to hear it.
All three of these fighters are merely second rate imitations of VF, so who really cares anyway.
I agree 100% with you watchdog. I mean soul cailbur is an awesome game, but wasn\'t even noticed in the arcade, just when famstui review it and it came to dc. I agree doa3 in my opinion is up there with the VF series, Tekken series, and SC series. I think there all good games. DOA3 is deep just take the time to learn it like watchdog said. Btw, watchdog your one of the best poster here on the forum.:)
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Fine call SSBM a button smasher for all I care, all I know is that SSBM is way more fun than DOA3 to me, the 4 player action is sweet, oh and this is coming from a 16 year-old and three of his friends, one being 18, so go ahead and call it a kiddy game because it doesn\'t have bouncing boobies, but it really actually isn\'t, you know what it is, it\'s a fun game
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Thanks for the kind words Ras--it\'s good to know that there are other people who can peacefully coexist with multiple systems.
Is it me or does DOA3 not have bounce (and I\'m not talking about the fabric softner)? Sure there is a little, dare I say realistic, shock transfer, but again, I must say if this game was called Fighting Masters produced by Square for the PS2, no one would ever comment about the combatants\' breasts--and if they did, they wouldn\'t do so to put down the game.
In fact I\'m sure many of the people here would be singing its praises--but that\'s a topic for a different thread.
I could compile a fairly lengthy list of "easy criticisms" that people use to bash the xbox (e.g. too big; bad controller; shallow, pretty games, etc) that have no real merit. DOA3 has a whole collection all to itself (bouncy breasts is just one of them).
This is what annoys me about many of the posts here. People who have not played a single game for the xbox write paragraphs spouting this tired crap in the name of their chosen console. Trolls come around with a topic that reads: "About the xbox (not a bash)". Invaribly the first sentence reads something similar to: "I picked up an xbox at launch and I really liked it, but after a couple days...". It\'s all too easy, and exposes them for what they are.
We all had to endure this crap with the launch of the PS2 from the Sega boys, so why do so many of you in turn do it to the xbox?
Consider this my impassioned plea.
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People aren\'t bashing xbox, In fact I actually like the xbox, I\'m just bashing DOA3, just because people don\'t like DOA\'s IMO ****ty gameplay doesn\'t mean they don\'t like the xbox
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Xbox is a great system like bozco said. Watchdog i agree there seems to be alot of xbox bashing mostly from the people that haven\'t even played the system!!! Which doesn\'t make sense to me. How do you know you don\'t like something unless you tried it out?:nerd:
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IF you have something against xbox or doa3 just say it.
I already said I hated DOA3 in multiple threads, how many more times do I need to say it? As for X-Box, I think Halo is just fine. There are a lot of things about that game I would have liked done differenty (mouse\\keyboard support for one), but for what it is, it\'s just fine and dandy. I don\'t see how my hatred for one game series constitutes console hatred though. As I stated before, I loathe Tekken 4 as well, but that\'s not out on the PS2 for me to bash now is it? ;)
Don\'t sit on this forum and call Doa3 a button [masher] then say Soulcalibur and tekken are not button smashers as well.
I didn\'t say they weren\'t. I merely said that DOA3 tries to take from each of those games, including VF, and tries to be the best of them all. Unfortunately, it fails incredibly.
Tekken is not all that deep. Soulcalibur is not all that deep. And niether is DOA3. But don\'t come in here and shout such one sided comments.
I hate the DOA franchise so my critique is one-sided, unless of course we are talking about the graphics in which case DOA3 does surpass them all. You\'re trying to find a fault somewhere in my responses, but you are just continually restating my opinions and mincing words. Please read what I said carefully.
And niehter of the games are button smashers when experiences players are playing against each other. But for the most part they ALL(NOT ONE)are button smashers.
I like all three of the games but it is very one-sided to knock on Doa3 when all 3 games have there share of button smashing.
I knock on DOA3 because it is the worst of them all, like people who continually knock on Superman 64 to harp on the N64 being a bad system. DOA3 is just the biggest example of failure in my opinion that ignoring it would just be too much to ask.
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I wasn\'t implicating anyone in particular with my last comments. The people who are guilty of it are known to themselves and to everyone else.
Ryu, if you hate Tekken and SC, then I can see why you do not like DOA3. You also say they are all button mashers--that too I can not argue with. But I do not consider them button mashers--that\'s fine, we have different definitions of the term. That\'s fair.
I would argue with your comment about DOA3 being the worst of them all. It\'s just not true. The skill involved is no less than any of those other games.
So is SF the apex of fighters then? Judging from your comments and your name I would assume so (I think so anyway). Again, that\'s fine, you dislike 3d fighters (with the possible exception of VF?). Who can argue with that?
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Uhhhhhhhh.........ryu then what figthing games do you like? Street fighter? Back to the topic I consider doa3 a amazing game and as for ssb:m I consider that overated. Tekken 4 is another one of my fav. fighting games to date.
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You guys are being way too anti-Nintendo here.
Point is, SUPER SMASH BROS. MELEE, DOES NOT SUCK. I\'m sorry but when I was in my glory days with my 64, and party every weekend, we played this game until the cartridge began to melt. If anything, SSBM was the only reason I was considering getting the Cube, but MGS2 and FFX hypnotized me too bad. I just came back from my friend\'s house and I miss the game so much. The GC version is just as fun, if not better. This game kicks ass, and is one of the best fighters out there. I hate people that think all fighters have to have blood, swords, and hot women. That\'s BS. Fighters should be based on gameplay.
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Those that are calling SSMB:M overated, have you guys actually played it extensively with with 3 friends? If you\'re gonna call something overated, at least play it in multiplayer, and if you didn\'t have fun, then call it whatever you want. Don\'t write it off just because the characters are Nintendo mascots and the moves are easy to do.
Originally posted by Rastalant
DOA3 is one of the best if not the best 3d fighters imo. Plus all the rating were very high for it. All reviewers said it was good so not everyone can be wrong.
By your logic, SSMB:M got very good reviews everywhere, so not everyone can be wrong. ;)
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Ryu, if you hate Tekken and SC, then I can see why you do not like DOA3. You also say they are all button mashers--that too I can not argue with. But I do not consider them button mashers--that\'s fine, we have different definitions of the term. That\'s fair.
You miunderstand. I don\'t hate SC at all. I actually never played that game enough with friends to see how you could button mash in it simply because all of my friends hate the Dreamcast controller with a passion. However, Tekken, bleh... nuff said.
I would argue with your comment about DOA3 being the worst of them all. It\'s just not true. The skill involved is no less than any of those other games.
Well, then we agree to disagree. :)
So is SF the apex of fighters then? Judging from your comments and your name I would assume so (I think so anyway). Again, that\'s fine, you dislike 3d fighters (with the possible exception of VF?). Who can argue with that?
In 3D, no game matches VF. In 2D, no game matches Street Fighter (and I do mean SF3 since I think that game takes the most skill out of them all to master and play). I don\'t dislike all 3D fighters, I just think most of them are lacking in some way. Take DOA3\'s utterly incredible visuals and background interactivity and match it with VF\'s tactical combat and you\'d have yourself one of the best fighters ever. However, we don\'t have that at all and I think they are all lacking in some way.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
I would argue with your comment about DOA3 being the worst of them all. It\'s just not true. The skill involved is no less than any of those other games.
Looks like someone has a problem with the definition of OPINION
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Looks like someone has a problem with the language ENGLISH.
Just because I don\'t say IMO after every statement I make doesn\'t mean I completely invalidate his opinion. I don\'t think it\'s true that DOA3 is the worst of all. You are being obtuse and petty. Take some courses in English and they\'ll tell you not to use phrases like: IMO, it seems like and probably because it waters down your prose and is less effective.
I guess we agree to disagree then Ryu.
Another argument for you: I\'d say Alpha3 is more complex and requires more skill than SF3--the counters are just too easy to pull off. In SFA3 it was an artform, in SF3, it\'s far too easy for even an average player. Anyway...
I don\'t consider Melee a great game because it is only fun with other people. With people it is fun, but without it\'s pretty dull.
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Another argument for you: I\'d say Alpha3 is more complex and requires more skill than SF3--the counters are just too easy to pull off. In SFA3 it was an artform, in SF3, it\'s far too easy for even an average player.
Yay, arguing Street Fighter semantics rules. ;) Anyways, I think Alpha 3 gives the player too much freedom with the counters. Alpha counters, air blocking, all the tremondous super differences (including the butchering of V-ism from Alpha 2). it just gives the player too many counter advantages, but I will give heavy props to the A-ism style seeing as how it was so much like the Street Fighter of old without airblocking and tremendously powerful characters and super moves. Of course, when you customized your character and leveled them up, a large amount of depth was added to the game, but that was only for the home version, sadly.
Street Fighter III, and I am referring to the first edition, not 2nd impact or third strike, was by far the greatest tactical fighter of them all. No air blocking and very few counter moves. The Ken and Ryu balance was most apparent here with Ryu having the tremendous strength advantage and Ken having the large speed advantage. A lot of people claimed Ryu had the upper hand from everyone because he was way too powerful, but he\'s been in the game for years so giving him that strength only seemed logical. Parrying attacks was not as easy as a quarter circle reversed either. Countering something with a parry is a vastly risky manuever requiring timing, speed, and heavy thought into your opponents next move. With two skilled players, Matches could last right down to the last seconds on the timer as they countered back and forth with blocks, parrys, and super moves. A true 2D chess game if I ever saw one.
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Well when you said "Its just not true", that makes it look like your stating it as a FACT to me, but of course I have a problem with English
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Actually, I got fouled with the numbers--I\'ve never played SFA3 (skipped that one--a bad time for me), I meant to say SFA2. If you want to get really deep, one could even argue good ole SFCE was where it was at.
I thought SF3 was too defensive--aggression was too severely taxxed--it was usually not worth the risk. And the 1/4 circle counter requires everything the tapping parry does, but it is a tougher manuever to pull off in the heat of battle, on an instant\'s notice.
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Hm.... we\'ve strayed off topic.
Who do you guys use in Smash Brothers...
I USE,.... PIKACHU!
Yeah he\'s a gay pokefag but he kicks some serious a$$ in that game.
PIKA!
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Well thats mine opinion I prefer all those other fighting games over ssb. End of story. Yes it is overated too me.......
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(Pika-Bolts rastalant)
PIKA!!!!
PI!!!
KA!!!
CHU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The main thing I like out SSB is collecting trophies. Having hidden guys to unlock is cool, too (but with Pikmin I don\'t give it enough time to get any).
One thing I thought was neat was that they gave Kirby the E. Honda hundred hand slap from SF2.
I think the adventure mode is a lot worse than it should have been. It should have been great and spilling with a feeling of nostalgia, but it is neither.
I agree that it is way overhyped, but I also know there are people who can\'t live without it, too.
-Eik
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And dang it Link sux again in this SSB!
He sucked in the first one, now he sucks in this one.
Too slow.
The name of the game is speed baby.
That\'s why I got Pika Power!
PIKA!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well, in that case, I can\'t argue too much because Alpha 2 truly was great. I spent hours upon hours playing that game. It\'s what Capcom Vs SNK is most like, except for the addition of that roll which i thought was brilliant. A poor man\'s parry essentially.
About the parry and your opinion of it liking it to the Alpha counter, I disagree. Mess up an Alpha counter, you\'ll probably still be blocking whereas if you mess up a parry, you\'re going to eat whatever they just threw at you. The only downside to an alpha counter is lacking the super meter to do one. I\'d rather do a damaging super then a single trip, dragon punch, or fireball.