PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Bossieman on January 16, 2002, 09:32:53 AM
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I was actually a little bit afraid that my PS2 was going too be killed by the X-box and the GC. I read on a forums that nobody would but a PS2 after the x-box was released. First I didn´t belive it but the more I visit teamxbox I started too go with the hype. I thought Damn x-box is actually going to break Sony.
When the numbers was released, that Sony sold about 5 million PS2 worlwide during christmas I feel very good. I now actually belives in Sony once again. I know that my PS2 is going to be the dominating force this generation. I feel very good about this and I don´t belive in x-box selling 10 million units in US this year.
I dont know but I don´t see Nintendo as a competition at all. I know they will sell million of GC the coming years. Pokemon will selll a lot of GC.
I think x-box will sell good but not near Sonys numbers.
I actually hopes that MS managed to attract the Japanese people. a couple of Million x-box there will only make the competition harder but I doubt we will se 1000:th of people standing in line for a x-box when it releases in Japan.
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Hehe..
Well I never doubted Sony. PS2 sold about 20million units before Xbox and GC entered the market.. That’s a really big gap.
But I never really thought PS2 would outsell both Xbox and GameCube on their launch days.. (When I heard that they weren’t going to lower the price I remember thinking "What are you doing? You are giving them the edge!")
Christmas I knew Sony would sell the most.
We will see how both new consoles do over here in Europe (8 and 13 March I think they launch(Xbox/GC))
Sony has delayed MGS2 and ICO for March to counter the releases.. MGS2 will sell many systems so it looks like Sony will sell more once again..
This year will be very interesting. :)
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ive been saying that all along
xbox and GC been out for 3 months, and PS2 is STILL selling more then those two combined
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Originally posted by Bossieman
I was actually a little bit afraid that my PS2 was going too be killed by the X-box and the GC.
Look at PSone is it killed? Nope and I think PS2 will never be killed unless PS3 can\'t play PS2 games. See the Xbox can\'t play DVD without the remote and don\'\'t have the optical output like the PS2, you have to buy both of them. But PS2 can do these features out of the box. I think PS2 sold more because they had more available games and Sony Playstation is a loyal company. :D
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Originally posted by Bossieman
I was actually a little bit afraid that my PS2 was going too be killed by the X-box and the GC. I read on a forums that nobody would but a PS2 after the x-box was released. First I didn´t belive it but the more I visit teamxbox I started too go with the hype. I thought Damn x-box is actually going to break Sony.
When the numbers was released, that Sony sold about 5 million PS2 worlwide during christmas I feel very good. I now actually belives in Sony once again. I know that my PS2 is going to be the dominating force this generation. I feel very good about this and I don´t belive in x-box selling 10 million units in US this year.
I dont know but I don´t see Nintendo as a competition at all. I know they will sell million of GC the coming years. Pokemon will selll a lot of GC.
I think x-box will sell good but not near Sonys numbers.
I actually hopes that MS managed to attract the Japanese people. a couple of Million x-box there will only make the competition harder but I doubt we will se 1000:th of people standing in line for a x-box when it releases in Japan.
First, off I\'m not sure why you are worried if Sony is in trouble or not. Or why you ever was worried. Yes, the Xbox is doing extremely well in the US, but we haven\'t seen how it\'ll do in Japan.
As for Nintendo, they have said before they don\'t see Sony or MS has exactly competition. They are aimed towards a totally different demographic audience.
OH and as for the comment about Pokemon selling a lot of GC\'s... There hasn\'t been a Pokemon game announced for the GC yet.
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How is Sony a loyal company?
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Sony is a loyal company.
Well, lemme put this way :
Sega makes the Sega CD add on. Then produces the 32x. Then a few months later, Sega Saturn. So those who bought Sega CD, couldn\'t play 32X games. And 32x owners couldn\'t play the new Saturn games. And Saturn owners couldn\'t play the recently released games on Sega CD and 32x.
Sony made their PS2 backwards compatible for PSX games. That means, games you bought in August 2000 can be played on the PS2 you bought in Oct 2000.
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PS2 sales was well above the 20 million mark plus a stagering 5 million X mas sales makes for a rather impreseive user base.
yup the PS2 might be seen as the weaker of the next gen consoles, but its user base andlist of exclusive titles makes for a mighty force INDEED !
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Bossieman, that\'s what you get for listening to fanboys :D
In all the debates about which console can do what someone usually comes in and tries to remind everyone it\'s about the games. As much as I want to ignore that fact and see debates about console power continue without being side tracked, the games do mean everything. It\'s not just the number of great PS2 titles that have finally landed, we have to also tack on the massive library of PSX games. What it adds up to is a huge boost in confidence to the average consumer the choice of a PS2 will retain a long lasting value.
Our arguments about next generation console power are akin to talk of which woman is better looking when all three are quite beautiful.
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How come I don\'t sit around worrying about which system will sell the most units? Please explain the warm feeling you get when you see that Sony is selling boatloads of PS2 units. Is it brand loyalty?
Believe me, I want Sony to do well, but it seems that some of you guys would like to see the competition disappear.
I want to see all the systems do well so there is a healthy competition which can only mean better systems and games in the future.
Just curious.
Ace
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:D <------ that\'s me laughing at you guys.
If this were on any other messageboard, you would be calling them all fanboys.
Oh No!!! PS2 only sold 128,000 units this week! If they don\'t sell over 100,000 M$ could catch up!!! NOO!!
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by Ace
How come I don\'t sit around worrying about which system will sell the most units? Please explain the warm feeling you get when you see that Sony is selling boatloads of PS2 units. Is it brand loyalty?
Believe me, I want Sony to do well, but it seems that some of you guys would like to see the competition disappear.
I want to see all the systems do well so there is a healthy competition which can only mean better systems and games in the future.
Just curious.
Ace
Because you\'re not a fanboy like so many others...
ive been saying that all along
xbox and GC been out for 3 months, and PS2 is STILL selling more then those two combined
MM, the Xbox and GC have been out exactly 2 months...not 3.
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could be 6 months, it makes no difference.
they\'re both a year too late to make a difference
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Someone could have come away from that post misinformed...just making sure that didn\'t happen.:p
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How many consoles has Ps2 sold through anyway? Is the number sold through over 20 million?? (not shipped)
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Personally, I\'d rather see either Sega or Sony come out the leader in this generation, with the Xbox and NGC taking up a sizeable marketshare as well. Since we can count Sega out, things seem to be going as well as I could have hoped so far. Competition is good, we\'ve all seen what a monopoly can do to the handheld market.. why would you want the same thing in the console market?
BTW, GManJoe.. that example dosen\'t prove Sony\'s "Loyalty". The ONLY reason why the PS2 is backwards compatable with the PS1 is because Sony needed a good - cheap - I/O chip for the PS2. For such a minimal task, the PS1\'s core processor worked wonderfully.. and since they are kicking those out in mass quantities for pennies on the chip, it just made good buisness sence. Making the few alterations for backwards compatability was just a ploy to get more gamers to buy the PS2 due to the PSX\'s massive userbase. If they had been TRUELY serious about extending the life of your PSX library, they would have included graphical updates beyond simple texture smoothing.
A nice feature, but don\'t think they gave it to you out of the kindness of their hearts.
Sega, on the otherhand, would have had to totally redesign the Saturn with a cartridge slot + converter to accomodate the Genesis/32x Carts. Since the SegaCD is an ENHANCEMENT to the Genesis, they would have had to include Backwards compatability for the Genny into the Saturn.. and why should they spend the cash (which they didn\'t have) for a add-on which sold pretty pitifully when all was said and done?
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Yep, I jumped the Big N ship right on time to catch a ride with the smooth sailing Sony. ;)
Funny how after the SNES Nintendo co-worked with Sony to create the Playstation to contend with Sega\'s 32-bit system. And Nintendo being major asses just bailed out on the project leaving Sony really pissed off. Therefore, Sony didn\'t quit on the Playstation, developed it. Then the Playstation beat the 64, and now Sony has reclaimed the throne that Nintendo once had.
Nintendo has to be smackin\' themselves in the face.
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You know what? I have a feeling this generetion neither M$ or nintendo will catch up to sony. They have to much of a head start and riding off the success of the ps1 as well, plus a of triple A titles are out for ps2 as well. Tons of 3rd party support ps2 looks almost unstoppable.
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Nintendo screwing sony(in the 16-bit era) is there biggest mistake ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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/me thinks nintendo\'s biggest mistake was abandoning the mature gamer with the N64
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Originally posted by mm
/me thinks nintendo\'s biggest mistake was abandoning the mature gamer with the N64
Very true. As the SNES generation grew older (*cough*me*cough), Nintendo grew younger. Pity :( . I still like alot of their games though :)
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Originally posted by mm
/me thinks nintendo\'s biggest mistake was abandoning the mature gamer with the N64
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I agree and when nintendo did that I said screw them and went with sony and saturn at the time. Now I\'m with xbox. Nintendo lost my faith with n64.........
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Originally posted by mm
/me thinks nintendo\'s biggest mistake was abandoning the mature gamer with the N64
/me thinks Nintendo\'s biggest mistake was the N64. ;) But yeah, Nintendo abandoning the mature gamer was pretty bad too.
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I won\'t speak on the warm feelings someone might get about Sony remaining King of consoles but I can offer what a sick feeling I\'d have at the thought of MS or Nintendo being top dog based on their past performance in that position. If seeing things that way makes me a fanboy, well...
I\'ve been called worse names
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I won\'t speak on the warm feelings someone might get about Sony remaining King of consoles but I can offer what a sick feeling I\'d have at the thought of MS or Nintendo being top dog based on their past performance in that position. If seeing things that way makes me a fanboy, well...
I could care less what brand name is on my game console.
I can understand why some people want one system to do better than another. When I buy something I want to see it around for a long time. I don\'t like wasting money.
If Sony is the only one left standing then we all lose.
Ace
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Originally posted by Ace
If Sony is the only one left standing then we all lose.
Ace
Bull$hit. Video console wise Nintendo was on there knees after the last round. How did we all lose?
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Originally posted by Heretic
Bull$hit. Video console wise Nintendo was on there knees after the last round. How did we all lose?
I gurantee what he means is that a multiple console competition is way better than just having one console rule
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I gurantee what he means is that a multiple console competition is way better than just having one console rule
Give that man a cigar. :)
Ace
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its not really abandoning the the mature gamer...you have to actually be on the ship, before you jump off... and Nintendo have never satisfied the mature gamer..
come on mm...you dont honestly consider yourself mature do you??
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i dunno, i dont act that way. although, i should, at my age
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Originally posted by Ace
Give that man a cigar. :)
Ace
:thepimp: I figured thats what you meant :thepimp:
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Originally posted by Heretic
Bull$hit. Video console wise Nintendo was on there knees after the last round. How did we all lose?
What Nintendo on their knees ?
thats like a Virtual Wet Dream for MM ;).
sorry low blow :laughing:
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I\'m with Ace on this one ya know
i mean come on if consoles destroy each other and one is left then it causes a lot of angry gamers - look at the nintendo fanboys - they area crude crowd because of how they got screwed over with N64 - see there ya go
the only reason i see fit to worry about console sales is because someone invested 300 dollars into a console machine and they want their investment to be a good one so they are happy when it sales
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People bash the 64 too hard. It was a great system I thought. It had some great games that go on my top 20 all time. I liked the 64. :p
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ehhe, i already got nintendo where i want them
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Nintendo\'s biggest accomplishment... Virtual Boy :laughing:
j/k
Seriously though, Sony, MS, and Nintendo all have solid lineups for 2002. I have owned a PS2 since day one, and have not had an argument over games. The launch line wasn\'t the greatest, but it offered variety. Personally, with the system, no problems thus far. ::knocks on wood::
Microsoft on the other hand, well that\'s just a sore spot for me. I\'ll be honest, I do not like MS. That can\'t take away from the fact though that they are a very competitive company. If you don\'t have halo and you have an X-box your well... different. MS put all there effort into one game, but none the less, it has some fine games.
Reason I didn\'t buy X-box: Not because I dislike them. Not because I already had PS2. But because they pretty much offer the same games that PS2 has.
Nitendo has taken a different approach. Leaning more towards their own games(bad in some cases, as in N64). But Nintendo\'s lineup is solid. Japan has gone crazy over SSB, and already has become nintendo\'s best game. Add RE into the mix and you\'ve got some good quality games. I\'ve owned a GC since yesterday, my parents got it for me for my birthday, but they only had indigo, so I\'m gonna exchange it for black tomorrow. DAMN NINTENDO and their gay pride!
Anyway, that\'s my take on the matter, batter me if you must, survive if you can!
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
I\'ve owned a GC since yesterday, my parents got it for me for my birthday, but they only had indigo, so I\'m gonna exchange it for black tomorrow. DAMN NINTENDO and their gay pride!
Actually Indigo/Purple is the color of, "royalty" But black is tons better. What games did you get?
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SEEING how your not the president of sony why would you even care?
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Originally posted by QuDDus
SEEING how your not the president of sony why would you even care?
Ermm he Visits a PLAYSTATION FORUM ! CORSE HE CARES !
Duuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!
So it may shock to to know that People who have baught a PS2 and play and enjoy it, would like to feal that the future of the console is SAfe.
But then again thats the same with any onsole owner where they support PS2, X Box or GAMECUBE.
Now sit in the coner with the big pointy had with the large letter D on it !
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Well, I\'ve had pretty much most of the major consoles available and the one brand I really liked was Sega, although I will never find out why.
I still don\'t have a PS2, however, I\'ll soon buy one because its hot as hell, and I still own 2 dreamcasts! I don\'t care if XBox sells good, in fact, I WANT it to sell good so it will continue to exist and many titles will be released. Then maybe I will buy one at some point.
Some people act like they own shares in the companies but I really understand you, because I know you really love your consoles and you have a very nice time playing with them. For some reason I feel the same with the Dreamcast (GREAT machine, even now) and I was very sorry they ceased production.
But let me tell you, the PS2 has been enjoying higher sales during Xmas compared to the Xbox and the GameCube, but lets not forget that Europe and Asia have yet to see the Xbox..
Something tells me that in one year from now the Xbox will be selling MORE units than the PS2..
And before you Sony fans start flaming me.... LETS JUST WAIT AND SEE!! :)
I\'m an economist and I think I know enough stuff to make a successful prediction like that...
Oh, and don\'t give me that DVD-ready crap... Do you really think that if someone\'s has 300 pounds to spare for an Xbox, he\'ll choose the PS2 because he\'ll have to pay how much, 20 more pounds for the dvd control??
Its like paying 15000 for a new car without giving another 700 for an A/C.....
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While I too will say wait and see, I doubt many people give a flying **** about your predictions whether or not you\'re and economist. I\'ve heard many so-called economist predict that this recession will be over soon, others believe that it will go on for a while. And others who quite frankly, don\'t have a clue when the economy will recover. What does this tell me? Can\'t exactly trust economist now can we? :p
Seriously, most PS2 fans could care less about the DVD function since most people who bought the PS2 in the US (and I\'m guessing you\'re from the UK since you mentions pounds) bought it for the games. DVD playback is a nice extra, I doubt many PS2 fans will bring that up to debate whether or not Xbox will catch on and outsell the PS2. So, when it comes to games, the PS2 has plenty while the Xbox is a wait and see on that issue. Not to mention, the PS2 is still outselling the Xbox in the US despite being at the original price of $300 US dollars which is the same price as the PS2 $300. If the Xbox is 300 pounds in the UK where the PS2 is now 200 pounds, and the PS2 still has plenty of great games coming, I don\'t see the Xbox outselling the PS2 in the UK anytime soon either. And Japan...hehehhe...lets see they even accept the American made system first (BTW, the PS2 also recieved a price drop here already as well).
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Nikos
One thing you fail to remember is it is SOny who has the market share now which translates into more 3rd party support later
and it is Sony who has sold over 20 million units and will be able to offer a significant price break
I don\'t see Xbox selling more in the near future, but I do see Xbox maintaining a strong success which is great cause now Sony has to be even sharper
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Hey, what kind of recession are you talking about? An economist can not predict when Bin Laden will hijack the planes now, can he?
The world economy would be in a much better place today weren\'t it for the recent wars like Kosovo (how much of it did you really watch over there in the states?) and Afganistan. The economic consequencies of those actions have STILL a very strong impact which you and me can not tell.
When Virgin Atlantic stops ALL flights in europe, you think only Virgin loses? Think again!
I\'m not telling you to trust me or whoever can just go to a uni and study economics, BUT you will see that in ONE year from now, the Xbox will probably achieve higher sales than the playstation2.
You know Bill Gates, he won\'t rest until he makes the XBox #1 console in the world, and the connections that he has with gaming companies and the like are tremendous.
Surely, gaming companies will carry on making games only for the PS2, and only for the Xbox as well as for both of them.
But lets face it, the early Ps2 games weren\'t what we can say " a breakthrough" and only now they start making really impressive games. I think we both agree on that.
I believe the same will happen to the xbox as well, in the following months we will see many much better looking games than the PS2, simply because the Xbox has MUCH BETTER Specs!
Its up to the developers to make a game that takes advantage of the capabilities of the Xbox, but IF they do, the games will have a better look. I can not say how enjoyable they will be, because this has nothing to do with the console. I still enjoy playing Tetris on my gameboy and its great fun! (maybe not tetris itself, but I think you know what I mean)
I hate M$ and Gates, but this is not personal.
Nintendo and Sega used to be the kings of consoles, and OUT OF THE BLUE, one fine day SONY (who??? SONY, who was only making electronics at that time, a NO ONE in gaming industry) came up with the PSX.
The rest of the story, you know. I\'m not saying Xbox is the next "SONY" who will crush the "ex-Nintendo" (sony), but I\'m trying to show you that REACHING THE TOP IS EASY. The hard part is remaining there.
Sony did a fine job defending their position when DC came out.
If they will be able to do the same now that they have the BEAST called M$ behind their back, is something that only time will tell!
Till then, how about a match of NBA 2002??!! :)
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ddaryl
when a company produces 5 products, they don\'t care if ALL of them sell like hot cakes, as long as the overall project is profitable.
What I mean is that if M$ sees that the Xbox is not selling much because of the price, trust me, they will reduce it. Or perhaps they will ship the console with some games included, dvd controler or whatever.
They have the financial support they need, because M$, as well as Sony are a colossus in world business.
If they sell for example 10 million Xboxes at 300 pounds, thats 300.000.000 profit.
However, they will see that by decreasing the price at for example 200, they will have a boost of sales of 50%.
Clearly, the price drop was 33%, and the boost of sales 50%.
So they are actually making MORE than before. This is why companies reduce the price on the consoles, because they know that they won;t sell the product so much if they keep them steady, because of the competition.
I remember in my country (Greece, although I;m in the UK now) the Playstation used to cost something like 500 pounds in its early days!! The mega drive used to cost 150 pounds at that time.
Do you honestly believe that Sony could EVER establish the PSX as the king of consoles for the years to come, if it werent to drop the price? It would be insanity!
What I want to say is that if Sony reduces the price of the PS2, after a while M$ will do the same. And by that time, more and more games developers will make games for the XBox.
I really hope all three consoles do well, so that this fierce competition will be good for us, the consumers.
I still say that new games are VERY VERY expensive though, which makes the actuall price of the console just a percentage of the total cost of the "machine" if you add 10-13 games......
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I still don\'t see how you can say with certainty that the Xbox will outsell the PS2. Now, I don\'t know the future, and you could be right, that the Xbox will outsell the PS2. But in your post...
You know Bill Gates, he won\'t rest until he makes the XBox #1 console in the world, and the connections that he has with gaming companies and the like are tremendous.
And Sony is just going to allow Bill Gates to make the Xbox number 1? Which, the sentance about him and the connection witht he gaming company as tremendous? This is debatable. Maybe in the PC world where most of the "bought" companies were (talking about the companies that MS bought that became their first party line. Bungie, Oddworld [though their most famous game was on the PSX, I believe they were mostly a PC developer though], etc.) and companies that they have deals with for exclusive games, but in the console gaming industry (where most of the developers...well, many of the big developers at least...are Japanese. I don\'t see the link between them and Bill Gates). That said, MS does have a lot of support from developers when it comes to the Xbox, but still, not to the point of Sony. And with the exception of a few (like Temco. But really, even they are still supporting the PS2) most will stay on the PS2, and at most, port a game to the Xbox. And you shouldn\'t forget Nintendo Gamecube. While they do not have the support of either the PS2 or Xbox, they are certainly friendly with the Capcom since they have Resident Evil exclusively and the GC is selling like hot cakes in Japan thanks to SSB:M. While this doesn\'t mean anything to us here in the states (where the Xbox and GC are selling neck and neck, with if the reports are to be believed, the Xbox is selling more), in Japan at least, it will just make it even harder for the Xbox to take root there (you know, in Japan where most of the console developers are?).
Surely, gaming companies will carry on making games only for the PS2, and only for the Xbox as well as for both of them.
If you are saying that each systems will have exclusives from developers as well as multiplatform games, then I agree. And if anything, this just tells me not to count either system out, or either system selling better then the other and so forth.
But lets face it, the early Ps2 games weren\'t what we can say " a breakthrough" and only now they start making really impressive games. I think we both agree on that.
And this has any prevelance now because? This shows that PS2 had a slow start when it came to the games and quality. And I honestly do believe, that if the Xbox and the PS2 were to have launch at the same time, I would agree that the Xbox would not only outsell the PS2, but surpass it already and the Sony would really be in trouble! The thing is, that wasn\'t the case. The Xbox was released nearly a year after the PS2, when developers got a handle of the system (compare todays PS2 games to the launch games and you WILL see a big difference) given the advantage of the Xbox specs less prevenlent now.
I believe the same will happen to the xbox as well, in the following months we will see many much better looking games than the PS2, simply because the Xbox has MUCH BETTER Specs!
I agree to an extent. All systems require time for developers to truely get the best of the system. Some longer then others (i.e. PS2). And since the Xbox is more powerful (thanks to the time it was released. Which was a year later), yes the Xbox games will look better then PS2 games eventaully, will that matter? PS2 games look pretty much on par with Xbox games, and like the Xbox, the PS2 still has more room to grow (true, it will NEVER will have games that will look like the best Xbox game, but that DOES NOT mean that PS2 games won\'t look close to it). Also, while graphics are important in games (if it wasn\'t, we would all still be playing the SNES), it isn\'t the only thing gamers look at when deciding on a system. First, the amount of games, which the PS2 has. Second, quality. Afterall, arugably, GTA3 does not look as good as Shrek on the Xbox. Yet, to a gamer, which one would they chose? GTA3. It is not just about the graphics which is what you are assuming in this thread as to why the Xbox will overcome the PS2.
Another great example that shows that graphics are not the only thing gamers look at when buying a system, the PSX vs. N64. N64 had better graphics and is a more powerful system (afterall, why else would it keep reminding us that it is 64bits as opposed to 32 bits of the PSX?) yet most chose the PSX simply because, more games. It is all about the games, not the specs.
Its up to the developers to make a game that takes advantage of the capabilities of the Xbox, but IF they do, the games will have a better look. I can not say how enjoyable they will be, because this has nothing to do with the console. I still enjoy playing Tetris on my gameboy and its great fun! (maybe not tetris itself, but I think you know what I mean)
I agree, but what does this have to do with the Xbox selling more eventually? As I said before, the most powerful system doesn\'t always sell the most...because of the developers. If this tells me anything, don\'t count the PS2 out.
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And about price, Sony had already lowed the price of the PS2 in other countries (and even in your country, the UK). Now, MS following suit, what else do you expect? You don\'t have to be an economist to see that any company will not just sit still as their competition reduces their price (and of coarse, rake in the sales due to that price drop). When Sony lowered the price of the PSX, Nintendo followed suit with the N64 and lowered its price. Sega did that as well (though Sega had other problems, with extremely rushed launch, and bad developer support that made the price drop mute and sadly ended its reign). Price competition at its finest.
As for your PSX and Mega Drive price comparison at the time...thats like me comparing the price of the Xbox ($300) and the PSX now ($90). Two different systems released at different times (5-6 year difference) with vastly different powers. If anything, shows the good thing about competition.
Now, MS is reportedly having the price of the Xbox in UK at 300 pounds at launch. This despite the fact that Sony already lowered the price of the PS2 to 200 pounds there. So, if the Xbox outsells the PS2 there at luanch, it certainly won\'t be the price that does it. Now, MS could suprise the UK and release it at 200 pounds they they feel they could do so, but again, price competition, Sony will also drop the price if they feel it is cutting into their sales (the only reason why the PS2 did not receive its own price drop here in the states. Sony felt that the Xbox and GC will not hurt its sales here too much, and if the sales reports are true, looks like Sony was right).
And besides, it isn\'t the system that the makers of these consoles are earning the most on, it is the games. And not just first party games either. If you research the gaming industry, every developer has to pay a royalty fee to the console makers for each game they sell. Part of the price of being a console developer. And if the company does make a profit off each system sold, extra money in the bank.
As you probably know, this isn\'t true to with the PC. They don\'t have to pay royalties. Of coarse, for PC developers, they have to contend with making their game work on a ton of different hardware so they can\'t push the PC as far as a console system does.
And yes, fierce competition is good for the gamers. So while I do not think the Xbox will out sell the PS2 anytime soon, that doesn\'t mean it won\'t succeed on its own right, and help move forward the industry.
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simchoy, I liked the way you quoted stuff and so your post was easy to follow...
The only link between that exists between console developers and game developers is the FINANCIAL link. This is not the case however with companies making their own games for their systems, like sega and nintendo.
So if Microsoft sees that they don\'t have as many developers by their site, they will simply "tempt" them to join them. Joining a side does not mean that they will not continue making multiplatform games though.
So don\'t just count on that, because we all saw how game developers gave up on the SNES, Megadrive and Dreamcast when they saw that the ship was sinking.
You mentioned the example of the GTA3 and Shrek. In my opinion, this is mistaken, try to judge between the same game for different platform. This is where you see which system works best in terms of graphics etc.
Yes, the list of the available games plays a very important role on how the system will sell IN ITS EARLY DAYS.
But if the games are nice and ppl love them, they don\'t need thousands of games. Take the PSX. It has how many games you reckon? From that, only a small percent of say 5% is worth PLAYING, let alone BUYING!!
And don\'t get me wrong on this, the PSX games that wrote history are very few compared to the total. Remember those useless japanese games who nobody played?
Why would anyone care SO much for the available titles when most of them are CRAP! I\'m not saying that the dreamcast doesn\'t have crap games, of course it does.
But if the dreamcast has a total of 500 and the 450 are CRAP, that leaves us with a 10% of "playable" games.
But PSX has like unlimited games, 1500 maybe more!
But most of them are really really bad!
Listen... The way I see it, if someone finds a way to make backups of Xbox games, then the Xbox sales will go sky high.
I have around 9 friends of mine who own a PS2, and ALL of them but one have it chipped.
This might do a big damage on the sales of the games, but you can not imagine how good it does on the sales of the consoles.
My friends pay the consoles and games with their own money, and they cannot afford to pay so much money for games.
I don\'t want to start that thing with backups and stuff, and hope that this thread doesn\'t get closed, but weren\'t for the chips, they wouldn\'t buy the CONSOLE.
I\'m only getting the PS2 for GT3, Burnout and another 2-3 games which I like and cannot get on the PC. So I don\'t intend to chip mine. But I understand their point of view even if I don\'t agree.
(after all, if you play a game for 15 days and you enjoy it I believe it pays off the 40 quid, even though it IS a lot of money)
To conlude, because its 7.20am UK time, I didn\'t rule the pS2 out completely. But I believe that the world has "seen" the PS2 and now it doens\'t bring out the initial excitement of the first months. I remember I rushed to a friend\'s of mine house when he received the ps2 he had reserved for a long time, just to see how it looks like and I was saying to my self "I want one NOW".
But in one year from now the list of games for the xbox will be big enough not to make any big difference to the consumer compared to that of the PS2, because the consumer is only interested in buying a max of 30 games, and he wants to know that more games are coming every day so that his investment will be worth it.
And since the Xbox will have a reduced price AND probably been cracked to allow backups, together with the fact that microsoft is a really BIG player, I believe that from december 1 until the new year, the Xbox will have sold more consoles than the PS2. (I don\'t mean overall in the years of course, I only mean in that period of one-one and a half month)
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Holy cow you guys. I\'ll need to set aside an hour of my life just to read all that. ;)
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Man I\'m too tired to rip this one up. Maybe I\'m tired cause I actually read all that. For as much time as you put into that post.........Wait I said I wasn\'t going to do this.
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As for the financial link. True, in fact, that is how MS was able to get many of its developers. However, what MS can do, so can Sony. While they may not have as much disposible money as MS, Sony can do the same. Remember, Sony owns 19% of Squaresoft, one of the biggest developers in Japan.
With the exception of the Dreamcast, developers kinda had an intention to abandon ship with the other systems you mentioned. The fact that the competition (and the company itself) had something better. The SNES and Megadrive/Genisis (the name of the console here in the states) were both in the 16bit era. Like everything else, something better comes along. In this case, the N64, Sega Saturn, and new comer PSX. Sega made a few mistakes which doomed the Saturn (like rushing the system, few developer support, etc.) and the N64 was hard to develop, and because of the lack of games, pretty much ensured newcomer Sony to take over. The Dreamcast, coming from a company that had its repuation collapsed and in poor financial health, couldn\'t survive.
I only used the GTA3 and Shrek example as examples where the graphics are not everything. Not on the overall qaulity/genre of the games. Right now, the Xbox doesn\'t really have a GTA3 equivalent given that GTA3 is pretty diverse game. But one thing that is pretty much agreed apon, GTA3 is a great gameplay, while Shrek is a load of crap despite some pretty great graphics.
As for the number of availble titles. I agree, the PSX has a ton of crap. But at the same time, they had tons of great games as well. What made Sony so successful was in part the diverse array of these great games. Which Nintendo didn\'t have (but because many considered them to have a ton of great games as well, they didn\'t do to badly either).
As for the backup thing...if it helps sell systems, okay. But again, its all about the games. And really, if the games sell, developers will continue to support it. Not all gamers copy their games. For example, right now, I don\'t know of any person who bought a PS2 that has copied games. That doesn\'t mean that there is a number that do, but again, as long as the sales remain high for the games, developers will continue to support it.
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I don\'t see a reason why MS should lower the price of Xbox at launch. It is a brand new system that comes from a great company in terms of size, and is much better in terms of specs.
The PS2 costed almost 3 times the money of the Dreamcast last year, and that was before Sega announced its death!
I really think we both have a different opinion about the matter and maybe for some reason I tend to trust MS more, and you trust Sony more. Maybe, thats what I concluded.
To be honest with you, I\'m a HUGE computer fan and I don\'t like microsoft for many reasons. Windows 2000 is IMO the ONLY stable system for ME, and since it works fine, I\'m not moving on to XP yet. I don\'t like seeing MS in this console field, but the thing is I didn\'t "like" Sony entering this field some years ago with PSX.
So I think that in although I\'d rather have MS messing around with my PC only (can u imagine that dreaded blue screen in Xbox!!!???!!), I trust they\'ll play a leading role in the months to come....
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hehe!! Seems like we monopolized the thread!!! :)
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holly crap, its 7.50am and I\'m still awake debating!!
Do you mind if I ask you your age? You seem well informed but there is another reason why I ask. It has to do with the backups.
I\'m 22 and the friends of mine I mentioned who have it chipped are about my age.
There are another 3 ppl that I know, which are in their late twenties, early thirties. Those ppl have a job and they are actually earning a respectable amount of money, so they can spare some in games.
Even so, the games they play are not very many, given you wouldn\'t expect a 30year old to play with shrek for example! I\'d say they own an average of 4-5 games each.
So maybe the ppl you know in person have the capability to buy all their games, or maybe they have wealthy parents or relatives who buy the games for them.
This applies to ppl owning more than 8-9 games, because after this amount of games the overall cost of the PS2 gets quite high. (more games mean more memory cards as well and so on).
I remember I used to spend all my money on games or CDs, and when I think what I could do with this money now.... its crazy!
I don;t regret it though, because the fun I had all those hours can not be paid back with anything.
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I\'m Eighteen. Excluding the people on this forum, the people I know who have a PS2 are around 18 to mid 20ies. All of which buy thier games. Now, they are not the richest people in the world. Two are in college, another has his own jobs but has bills to pay so to speak. Now, I will say, I do know people who had the original PSX chipped, and in turn, had copied PSX games. But, for the PS2 crowd I know (besides this forum) at least right now, since mod chips were not avaible right away for the PS2 (or a good source for good mod chips), all the games for the PS2 have been bought.
Now, I by no means advocating *******s ([edit]and you can guess why mod chips as one word is censored)/copying games. Just saying I know people who have.
And yes, gaming is expensive. This is why I only have 9 games for the PS2 (one was $20) as opposed to 20 which I could easily say are great games.
Oh, and from where I\'m sitting, it is 12:06 am.
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weird...
England is full of chipped PS2s, and lets not mention PSX..
I doubt if there is any PSX left unchipped!!
In Greece from where I originate things are a bit more "legal".
My friends of mine with the chipped PS2s are all in england, the other guy who I mentioned is in Greece and also the other guys who are older than me are in greece as well...
Entertainment can surely be expensive (a saturday night out proves it well) but ppl do not understand that games ARE entertainment and must be priced as such...
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Any more of this chip talk will get this thread closed (and at worse, a warning and possible banning from the mods [though I doubt the banning part since that would be extreme. But talking about chipping/copying games...not allowed here]), so...lets end that talk right now.
And yes, gaming is expensive. But at the same time, $7 billion of revenue flowed into the industry. Someone is buying.
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It isn\'t too late to join, is it? ;)
nikos,
But lets face it, the early Ps2 games weren\'t what we can say " a breakthrough" and only now they start making really impressive games. I think we both agree on that.
And somehow the PS2 still managed to sell about 20 million consoles before the other next gen systems came out, and this is even when the PS2 was $300 and the Dreamcast was $200. This shows what is needed to be successful. 1. A great reputation and a well known name (Playstation). 2. A perfect launch time (a whole year before the competition? And it\'s competing directly against a company who has had a shaky reputation in the past [sega]. It can\'t get any better than that.) 3. HYPE.
When the Xbox launches in Europe, they will only have one of the three -- hype. Without a doubt Microsoft will hype up their system and the tons of games that are coming on launch day. But will this be enough? Will the casual gamer really spend 300 on a system when they can get a system with a lot more games for 100 less, or a different system for even less than that (the NGC)? Not very likely.
They are launching at one of the worst possible times, when the PS2 has already been out and selling for a year, and the NGC has been out for a few months. A lot of the casual gamers will have already bought their console for this generation, so they wouldn\'t even be interested in the Xbox (most casual gamers only buy one console per generation.)
And Microsoft is not a very well known or respected name in the console industry yet. Like I said before, they will probably advertise like crazy, but I don\'t know if that will earn them the trust that they need to make people buy their system.
Nintendo and Sega used to be the kings of consoles, and OUT OF THE BLUE, one fine day SONY (who??? SONY, who was only making electronics at that time, a NO ONE in gaming industry) came up with the PSX.
The rest of the story, you know. I\'m not saying Xbox is the next "SONY" who will crush the "ex-Nintendo" (sony), but I\'m trying to show you that REACHING THE TOP IS EASY. The hard part is remaining there.
Reaching the top is far from easy. That was probably about 95% luck on Sony\'s part breaking into the industry. If Sega hadn\'t made their console so hard to program, and Nintendo hadn\'t made their console so developer-unfriendly, Sony wouldn\'t have had a chance IMO. And for the reasons I gave above, it is going to be anything but easy for Microsoft.
What I want to say is that if Sony reduces the price of the PS2, after a while M$ will do the same. And by that time, more and more games developers will make games for the XBox.
Unlike when the PS2 was released and there wasn\'t any competition, the Xbox is going to be fighting against two other consoles that cost less. During that time when Microsoft\'s console is expensive, the PS2 and NGC will be selling like hot cakes only increasing the developers\' interest in the PS2 and NGC (but mainly PS2 because the userbase will be so much bigger than both the NGC and Xbox).
And about price, Sony had already lowed the price of the PS2 in other countries (and even in your country, the UK). Now, MS following suit, what else do you expect? You don\'t have to be an economist to see that any company will not just sit still as their competition reduces their price (and of coarse, rake in the sales due to that price drop). When Sony lowered the price of the PSX, Nintendo followed suit with the N64 and lowered its price. Sega did that as well (though Sega had other problems, with extremely rushed launch, and bad developer support that made the price drop mute and sadly ended its reign). Price competition at its finest.
It won\'t be that easy for Microsoft. Right now, Sony is making a profit on all PS2s sold. But every console that Microsoft sells, they lose about $80 dollars (US dollars). If they are already losing that much money per system, I think they will be a bit skeptical about lowering the price even more. I know Microsoft does not intend to make too much money this generation (they are really just going after the trust of the consumers so the Xbox2 will be successful), but I\'m sure they still want to make something. Will Microsoft drop the price? Of course. But will they drop it down to the PS2\'s or NGC\'s price in order to be a "real" contender? Not very likely.
So don\'t just count on that, because we all saw how game developers gave up on the SNES, Megadrive and Dreamcast when they saw that the ship was sinking.
I\'m not sure exactly what you meant by this. Do you mean that you think the PS2 is going to be that sinking ship, and people will abandon it and go over to the Xbox? With a 20+ million userbase (probably around 30 million by the time the Xbox is released world wide), the devs won\'t be abandoning ship. Period.
This [piracy] might do a big damage on the sales of the games, but you can not imagine how good it does on the sales of the consoles.
But because Microsoft loses money for every system they sell, this only hurts Microsoft even more.
And since the Xbox will have a reduced price AND probably been cracked to allow backups, together with the fact that microsoft is a really BIG player, I believe that from december 1 until the new year, the Xbox will have sold more consoles than the PS2. (I don\'t mean overall in the years of course, I only mean in that period of one-one and a half month)
I will agree with you on this one. The Microsoft/Xbox fans alone will make the Xbox sell better during time when the Xbox is released. The PS2 will have already been 2 years old by then (and out in Europe for 1 1/2 years), and the sales will start to slow down a little bit (unless there is some big game released around the same time that the Europeans have to have, i.e. The Getaway). But I don\'t think the Xbox will have staying power. It\'s sales will be good for a few months, but the Sony and Nintendo will take over again.
My post is completely speculation. It is just what I predict to happen when the Xbox is released in Europe. Hey, I was right about the NGC/Xbox US launch (that the Xbox and NGC would sell out leaving the PS2 to pick up the millions of extra sales), so now I\'m going for two out of two. :)
I also think that the Xbox launch in Japan will be more successful than the NGC\'s, but like in Europe, it will slow way down again and the PS2 and NGC will pass it up within a month.
And this is kind of off topic, but I think I just figured out the release of The Getaway. :) What better time to release a game that has 50 miles of real European streets and landmarks (is it London that the Getaway is designed from? I can\'t remember), then right before the launch of a new console in Europe? If they really release the game right before the Xbox launch, and it turns out to actually be a great game, the Xbox is screwed IMO. Remember, you heard this exclusive news here first. ;)
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so much for keeping it simple:D
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I think xbox price will drop pretty fast in EU. 479 Euro for a x-box!!! LOL That is about 4700 Swedish krones. A new PS2 costs about 3295 SKR. Good luck MS!!!
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Originally posted by Bossieman
I think xbox price will drop pretty fast in EU. 479 Euro for a x-box!!! LOL That is about 4700 Swedish krones. A new PS2 costs about 3295 SKR. Good luck MS!!!
i wouldent say that just yet, beacuse you will be amazed by the number of M$ Fanboys that i have meat that say that.
"well Bill Could Face to lose a lot of money and give the Console away free and hance win the Console war".
Yeah like hes going to buy everyone in the world 20 million Plus X boxes out of his own pocket :laughing:
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Well, what is MS supposed to do. 479 euros! Is that not way to much??Maybe they will come with the genious ide of a bundle. Bux x-box and oddworld and halo and a dvd remote and a advanced video pack so you can have DD sound .
For the very nice price of 700 Euros!!!!
but whata heck, maybe people here in Sweden will que days before the release. maybe x-box will beat Sony , Mayby.
But not likely. 479 Euros, the way to go Gates.!!!
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EVEn if Gates drops the Price they Still Risk the Fact that Sony is going to drop theirs some time soon, A NEW sujected UK price of £170 has been bounced about.
so thats a £300 X box Vs a £170 PS2 ?
hmmmmm you can see the reasons for consern for MS.
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Here\'s a little more fuel for the fire against Microsoft. ;)
It\'s no great secret that most of the gaming industry views Europe as something of an afterthought, despite the fact that we\'re already the world\'s second biggest market for video games and still growing fast.
The latest company to catch flak over this attitude is Microsoft, whose Xbox is (finally) launching in our neck of the woods on March 14th at a price of £299 / €479, compared to the US list price of $299 (£210 / €340) and the recently announced Japanese launch at ¥34,800 (£185 / €300).
This means that Europeans will be paying significantly more for their Xboxes, despite the fact that Microsoft has a dedicated factory pumping out the consoles in Hungary, a country not renowned for its high labour costs.
"There are additional costs, such as shipping and taxes, which are reflected in the price," Microsoft PR reps on this side of the pond told us when we quizzed them about the discrepancy.
But while we understand that sales taxes (which are in the 10-20 per cent range in most European countries) do make a significant difference, this still doesn\'t really explain why European gamers will pay 40-50 per cent more for an Xbox than their American and Japanese counterparts. And if distribution costs are such a big factor, surely the Japanese pricing should be much higher?
Microsoft insist that "the price represents tremendous value" despite the hefty mark-up, but it does leave the Xbox at a distinct disadvantage in the coming European console war. The PlayStation 2 is already down to a mainstream friendly £199 and is widely expected to shed a few more pounds before March, while the GameCube should also cost significantly less than £299 if/when it eventually arrives in Europe.
By comparison, in America the Xbox went head-to-head with the PS2 on price, and was still marginally outsold by Sony\'s year old veteran over the festive season, probably thanks to the arrival of eagerly anticipated games like Final Fantasy X and Metal Gear Solid 2. Both games are expected to arrive in Europe just before the Xbox.
The Xbox\'s saving grace is that you get more bang for your extra bucks, including a couple of features which are relatively expensive optional extras on the PS2. "Xbox is the ultimate games console", our PR contact swooned. "Advanced features such as the Nvidia graphics card, online readiness out of the box, and the in-built hard drive mean that €479 / £299 is an extremely competitive price for Xbox. We\'ve been aggressive with the introductory pricing for Xbox since we want to grow the market and make retail, publishers and gamers happy. This is a price that meets all those criteria."
Despite Microsoft\'s protests of innocence, we have already heard of at least one online petition complaining about the console\'s European pricing, and at the time of writing some two thousand people had signed it. Although this won\'t have any impact on Microsoft\'s plans for the Xbox, it shows that there is some discontent amongst hardcore Euro gamers, who once again are getting the feeling (whether or not it is justified) that they are being ripped off...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/23772.html