PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Hall of Fame/Shame: Best of PSX2 and PSX4Central => Topic started by: luckee on February 14, 2002, 03:36:16 AM
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Chruch on sundays is a evil plan by women to make men go to hell. Ever notice that football games and lots of other kinds of races are on sundays.
I read that in another forum..but it is sooo true :D
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Church (Christian) is on Sunday cause its the first day of the week. Football is played on Sundays cause no one works on Sundays.
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actually, sunday is the 7th day, the day god rested
as should we all
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Church (Christian) is on Sunday cause its the first day of the week. Football is played on Sundays cause no one works on Sundays.
well..firstly..humorless boy...it was more of a qwip(sp) than anything...
secondly...church is on sunday(christian) b/c it was the day the *lord* rested on after *creating* the world.
as far as football and racing being on sundays..I dunno..even though there is alot of racing on saturdays.
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Originally posted by mm
actually, sunday is the 7th day, the day god rested
as should we all
He also gave us this day to go to church and worship Him.. and stuff like that.
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Originally posted by serrano007
He also gave us this day to go to church and worship Him.. and stuff like that.
this sounds like the beginning of a holy war. :D
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MM, no offense, but your an idiot.
Sunday is the FIRST day of the week. Saturday is the 7th, that is why Seventhday Adventists go to church on Saturdays.
I am a Christian so I should know.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
MM, no offense, but your an idiot.
Sunday is the FIRST day of the week. Saturday is the 7th, that is why Seventhday Adventists go to church on Saturdays.
I am a Christian so I should know.
so why do christians worship on the 1st day instead of the 7th when he rested?
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Because worshipping God has nothing to do with when he rested.
He simply rested on the 7th day (Sat) which is why SDA\'s go to church on SAT. Christians beleive it doesnt matter when he rested so its on Sunday.
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sounds like more brainwashing BS to me.
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See thats the thing, Christianity isnt restricted to Traditional Religion, like, Traditions etc ie - you must go to church on Saturday/Sunday.
Go whenever the hell you feel, God doesnt care, just as long as you go!
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
See thats the thing, Christianity isnt restricted to Traditional Religion, like, Traditions etc ie - you must go to church on Saturday/Sunday.
Go whenever the hell you feel, God doesnt care, just as long as you go!
for it to be that free..one shoudlnt even have to go as long as they prayed or had faith in the least..but it isnt like that now is it?
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No, its not like that, but don\'t think of it as being restrictive.
God doesnt care what day you go to church, but he does care that you at least make the effort and GO. Actions speak louder then words. If you just pray then you probably really don\'t mean it.
Its not complex or anything.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
See thats the thing, Christianity isnt restricted to Traditional Religion, like, Traditions etc ie - you must go to church on Saturday/Sunday.
Go whenever the hell you feel, God doesnt care, just as long as you go!
I gotta agree with you RaCeR. Nowhere in the bible does it say go to church on Sundays, or as some would say "Sabbath". Christians focus less on "religion" and more on "relationship", with Jesus Christ that is. "Church" is not a building or some organization of sorts. It\'s better described as the "body of Christ", or as I put it "the fellowship of believers". Anyway, Sunday is when "church" happens for me, but my church gets out in time for most games and races so I can\'t say I have any complaints on this end.:cool:
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Originally posted by project86
I gotta agree with you RaCeR. Nowhere in the bible does it say go to church on Sundays, or as some would say "Sabbath". Christians focus less on "religion" and more on "relationship", with Jesus Christ that is. "Church" is not a building or some organization of sorts. It\'s better described as the "body of Christ", or as I put it "the fellowship of believers". Anyway, Sunday is when "church" happens for me, but my church gets out in time for most games and races so I can\'t say I have any complaints on this end.:cool:
Exactly. Catholisism, for instance, is very bound by tradition ie - they did that 1500 years ago, so we still have to do it today.
Christians basically follow the Bible. Its a relationship with God on a personal level, not a religion you are following because you are afraid of going to hell.
You don\'t have to go to church to be a Christian, or to love God etc, but its a symbol that you actually mean what your doing, like, you\'ve taken the time outta your schedual to actually get off your butt and go.
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John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
The only path you need to take to be a Christian is in the verse above. Church or no church. However, going to church strengthens my beliefs and helps hold me accountable to the teachings in the word of God that’s the main reason I go to church. It\'s good to fellowship with other believers, you know?
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For all we know, the seventh day could actually be a thursday. Just thought i\'d throw that into the melting pot.
P.S - Dont slate me for this, its just a joke ;) :D
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Thats actually quite possible. When God said, the \'7th\' day, he meant that it had been 7 days since he began creating the world. I mean, there was no Monday when God created the world!!!
Because Sunday is the first day of the week, SDA\'s worship on Saturdays, cause its the Sabbath, but Christians don\'t really celebrate the Sabbath cause its old Testiment.
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Wow, i actually made a good point for once!! Happy day for me!!
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Thats actually quite possible. When God said, the \'7th\' day, he meant that it had been 7 days since he began creating the world. I mean, there was no Monday when God created the world!!!
Because Sunday is the first day of the week, SDA\'s worship on Saturdays, cause its the Sabbath, but Christians don\'t really celebrate the Sabbath cause its old Testiment.
Of course, not celebrating the Sabbath cause it\'s "Old Testament" is true in some sense. However, It\'s not to discredit the old books of the law - you know the Ten Commandments. They are "Old Testament", and we Christians still obey them...the best we can of course.
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God is also a figment of your imagination. Religion was created because people are afraid to die, and humans are animals who can\'t behave themselves unless they\'re afraid of a big , powerful, almighty being who will punish them for eternity.
Just some thoughts from your local agnostic.
*digs a trench, dons a helmet and prepares for the onslaught of the bible-thumpers... ;)
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No Bible thumper here Chiz. I hated it when pushers shuved their bibles down my throat, so you won\'t get that stuff from me.
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cool..
:D
I just think you might as well belive in star wars. It\'s just as fantastical.
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how can i let someone whos toilet water flushes the wrong way, and have a fatuationwith mariah carrey call me an idiot? :rolleyes:
sunday is the 7th day of the week, end of story
god NEVER intended for churches as we do it
we dont have to sit in a room with lots of wood and stained glass
"lift a rock and i\'ll be there"
sound familiar, kid?
Seventhday Adventists
yeah, they rank up there with the scientologists when it comes to religious brilliance
I am a Christian so I should know.
like this makes you better than ANYONE else who isnt christian. all that means is you pay to worship god, nothing more. keep yer christian god, i like mine more real
bah
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Originally posted by CHIZZY
cool..
:D
I just think you might as well belive in star wars. It\'s just as fantastical.
What? Star Wars isn\'t real! Crap! :laughing:
In all honesty though friend I will say, I don\'t believe in God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit because of how fantastical they may be. I believe because I have faith, faith being the evidence of things not seen. Not to mention the peace I have due to my faith. I only pass these words on to people because of the joy that it has brought to my life; I only want the same joy for others. But, I won\'t stuff it down your throat. If you have other beliefs - cool. I\'m sure you have your reasons as I have my own.
Peace.
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i...i think you all missed the joke...
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Chizzy is right. This whole "God" thing was a creation so that people can pass the blame onto something else that will "Forgive them" for it.
Sure church makes you feel good when you go. But what in the world is a God? Do you really think some "being" out there created the world? I just don\'t get it. If god created man, then how come did they appear so far after the dinosaurs. Did God create the Dinosaurs? I\'m thouroughly confused.
Let\'s see, do I believe in Big Bang, which actually makes a lot of sense. Or do I believe in a God which makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever.
And also, if there is a GOd, then why in the world would he care if you go to church or not. As long as you are a good person then the only thing for church is to go see your friends and listen to some guy read. Heck, you can do that at a library or a book store.
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actually, vid
the hardcore christians dont believe the dinosaurs existed
they feel god created everything at once, and its impossible that dinosaurs existed millions of years before man
ask #racer# if he believes dinosaurs never existed, and ask him how his "christian" faith explains this
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Oh my, are you serious? I never knew that. Glad I asked. Actually, out of all the people writing in this thread, ##Racer##\'s posts seem the most out of whack to me.
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Now were talkin, I love it when this topic takes off...as long as we can all be friends when the smoke clears of course.
The "Big Bang Theory" is just that, a "theory". Yeah they say they have proof. That’s fine and dandy but the dinosaurs could have been killed off by the flood in Noah’s time. I\'m not trying to poke fun at your beliefs, I\'m just saying that "the proof is in the pudding" so to speak. Here’s a site that helps us “Christians” believe the Bible a bit more. Maybe you can use it to help understand why we believe in “creation” rather than “Big Bang”.
http://www.centuryone.com/25dssfacts.html
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im VERY serious
if yer a true chrisitan, then its inconceivable that dinosaurs were put on earth by god millions of years before humans. then what? god killed them all?
my ex-fiances parents were VERY, VERY christian and boldly stated that dinosaurs never existed and that they are a facade created by the heathens to support the evolution theory. that the skeletons in musuems were all fake.
i know what yer thinking, :rolleyes:
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The bible is just a collection of stories of how several people perceived the world. We are believing in God based on what several people believed a couple thousand years ago.
So what if L Ron Hubbard lived a couple thousand years ago and his book came out first. Would we all be Scientologist Whackos?
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Originally posted by luckee
Chruch on sundays is a evil plan by women to make men go to hell. Ever notice that football games and lots of other kinds of races are on sundays.
I read that in another forum..but it is sooo true :D
To get back on topic. . .
People were going to church long before football games. So it has nothing to do with the women, it\'s the dumb, evil men that decided to have football when they should be going to church.
In any event, you don\'t have to go to church to go to Heaven, but that\'s a thread long gone, it was a good thread, I miss it.
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Originally posted by project86
Now were talkin, I love it when this topic takes off...as long as we can all be friends when the smoke clears of course.
The "Big Bang Theory" is just that, a "theory". Yeah they say they have proof. That’s fine and dandy but the dinosaurs could have been killed off by the flood in Noah’s time. I\'m not trying to poke fun at your beliefs, I\'m just saying that "the proof is in the pudding" so to speak. Here’s a site that helps us “Christians” believe the Bible a bit more. Maybe you can use it to help understand why we believe in “creation” rather than “Big Bang”.
http://www.centuryone.com/25dssfacts.html
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Quote:
The scrolls contain previously unknown stories about biblical figures such as Enoch, Abraham, and Noah. The story of Abraham includes an explanation why God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son Isaac.
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Again I must say, these are very old writings and fascinating history, but why should I believe in a God just because a couple dudes a couple thousand years ago did?
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I have a friend who is so religious that when I debate with him about his faith, I will alwyas find a gap or inconsistancy in what he\'s telling me. That\'s why I will not read the bible or even try and that is why I refuse to go to church. I don\'t have to go to church to believe in something or prove that I believe in it. God is everywhere, God knows what you are thinking and if that\'s the case, then it (being non-gender specific here) knows that I believe in it, regardless of what I do in my spare time or on my Sundays.
I\'m a good person despite some of you people thinking I\'m a hardcore a$$hole and I have faith. I don\'t need a book to preach it to me, I don\'t need to waste my Sundays singing a hymn, and I don\'t need to carry a cross around my neck to believe in it. It\'s all about faith and I have enough and if God is omnipresent, omnipotent, omnislash (;)) then it doesn\'t need me in any room, paying any fee, or singing any songs, or reading any books.
What\'s the point of all this? Nothing. I just find it hilarious that people need to prove that they believe in God by doing all of these things. I don\'t remember God needing churches for worship, I don\'t remember God needing handouts to keep his places of worship afloat, and I sure as heck know that me being a good person to all is more important than me visiting a building.
Besides, who\'s going to Heaven first, the guy who is generally nice to everybody or the guy who would stomp you to death to get to Mariah Carey? Enough said. ;)
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yes, so lets keep this nice and civil
i like religious debates, but theres no reason to call
someone else an idiot for saying that sunday is the 7th day of the week, right?
huh, #racer#?
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First off.Project86 Your tolerance for other peoples veiws is so refreshing,I\'m just going to pretend there\'s an extra star under your name from now on. MM you mentioned the scientoligist,I live 15 minuites from these freaks world hq.They are a frightning bunch.You don\'t want to walk into thier lobby as they have machines that will instantly scan your brainwaves and tell them anything about you.:rolleyes: If you ask me the whole thing is a sham to set up gay hollywood stars in fake marriages(Tom Cruise,John Travolta). The Big bang theory?I don\'t know,It\'s just to early to say with any kind of certainty that that\'s the way it went. Dinosaur bones are all fakes?A conspiracy by the entire industrialized world to fake the existance of dinosaur\'s?That\'s just sad. >"In these day\'s of discovery.It seems religon always takes one step back from the light of science"Somebody said that I\'m not sure who.
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Originally posted by mm
yes, so lets keep this nice and civil
i like religious debates, but theres no reason to call
someone else an idiot for saying that sunday is the 7th day of the week, right?
huh, #racer#?
maybe he thinks yout just an idiot in general and cited that one example of idiocy to back up his claim.. :p sounds reasonable :D
NOW arent you wishing you left my Gay topic open?? :D;)
:fro: toot on
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lol i forgot about yer "vote how gay #racer# is"
its still in the archives, closed
i "could" reopen it, hmmmmm nah
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And on a deeper and more meningful level.Why the hell do all my finely crafted paragraphs turn into rambling sentances when I click submit reply?
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Originally posted by Videoholic
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Quote:
The scrolls contain previously unknown stories about biblical figures such as Enoch, Abraham, and Noah. The story of Abraham includes an explanation why God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son Isaac.
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Again I must say, these are very old writings and fascinating history, but why should I believe in a God just because a couple dudes a couple thousand years ago did?
Good question, but what I was trying to get at by posting the Dead Sea Scroll site was that the deeper people look into ancient artifacts, the more they prove that the stories in the Bible are true. Hence the names on the scrolls are that of the names in the Bible...see the correlation. In short, if they as men existed, and the stories about them were true, then maybe the stories about creation are true as well.
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Originally posted by ben_high
I live 15 minuites from these freaks world hq.
not to toss this thread another 90 degrees, but do you live in Clearwater?
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No.Pinnellas park.But it\'s still to close.
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heres a good forum for #racer# to hang out
http://pub49.ezboard.com/ftruechristiansunitefrm7
this is a quote from one of the "christians" there
No Mercy for the Disabled! -Nathaniel P. Robbins
My Church does not have handicapped ramps!
My Church does not have hanicapped parking spaces!
My Church does not provide hymnal books in braille!
My Church does not employ a person versed in "sign language"!
When asked why we do not make accomodations for such people, I sternly rebuke them with, "We do not cater to SINNERS, in the House of the Lord!
These "people" had their chance at redemption before the Lord a LONG time ago! It is not yours or my business to preach the Gospel to them, as they only seek to mock it!
These "people" belong in prisons and guarded hospitals where we are safe from them. I encourage all True Christians to disregard the "tolerance" they have been taught when it comes to these demented souls. "
and a reply
The other day some buddies of mine were at the mall because they were having a sale at Abercrombi & Finch (and the new catalogues were coming in), when we saw this crippled guy hobbling around on crutches. So we followed him around for a while, just laughing at him, and pretty soon he went to the bathroom... I then snuck in and noticed he had left his crutches standing on the outside of the stall so I took them and ran off, dumping them in a janitor\'s door which was slightly ajar! Ha!
Then we waited on the opposite side of the food court and watched to see if he would come out. Sure enough, we see him come out shuffling slowly from the hall and then he tripped and fell over... we were absolutely DIEING laughing by this time, and the guy starts CRAWLING on the floor CRYING that someone had stolen his crutches. It was the funniest thing I ever saw!! Most people just walked around him and pretended not to notice (or else they probabaly would\'ve bursted out loud laughing like we were!), but finally a security guard came over and helped him and we thought it was best to take off at that time. But oh man, that was absolutely hilarious! LOL!
True Christians Rule!
if i had a gun, i would shoot they both, and make them cripples
:mad:
theres yer christianity #racer#
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I am an athiest.Always have been.But I\'m not going to judge religon ,nd all the good things that have been done in the name of religon,on the basis of what those two morans said.
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Those aren’t true Christian’s man. The name Christian means "little Christ". It was a term used to mock those that followed the teachings of Jesus. Jesus healed the lame and fed the hungry. He had no such fun at the expense of those who had any type of handicap. I would have been inclined to give those two hosers a sound lashing. Man that makes me angry!:mad:
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Regarding dinosaurs - I believe that Scientists dating methods are completly wrong. I beleive the earth was created around 6500 years ago (est) along with EVERY single animal (even dinos). I beleive that dinos died out around the time of the flood. I beleive that a few \'dino\' species survived the flood (such as large lizards that we know today).
Also, if the earth was 60 millions years old, then the sun would have been too close to the earth for anyone to have been able to survive.
You see, the sun shrinks at a certain rate every single year, ever so slowly getting smaller (not small enough to make any issues for anyone in the next 6 milleniums)... But, if it was shrinking at the same rate as it is now, then at 60 million years ago, the sun would have been SO LARGE that nothing would have been able to survive on the earth.
No, I didn\'t just make this up.
Also MM, shows how often you go to church when you say \'wooden pues\' and \'stained glass windows\'. Freaking hell, Christian churches ARE NOT LIKE THAT. They are NORMAL buildings, with comfortable chairs! With coool music!
Gosh, it doesnt say in the Bible anywhere that church had to be boring!
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me being a Buddhist i get to stay at home and watch all the football i like. also i get to celebrate any religious holiday i feel like, as long as that religion is based on love. (which most all are) damn i rule!! :)
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Regarding dinosaurs - I believe that Scientists dating methods are completly wrong. I beleive the earth was created around 6500 years ago (est) along with EVERY single animal (even dinos). I beleive that dinos died out around the time of the flood. I beleive that a few \'dino\' species survived the flood (such as large lizards that we know today).
Also, if the earth was 60 millions years old, then the sun would have been too close to the earth for anyone to have been able to survive.
I don\'t mean to bag on your reasoning man, but my god, do u have a grip on how crazy this sounds? Your saying that present day man was around during the same time as the dinos? and your saying present day carbon 14 dating can be off by millions of years? this is a bit far fetched
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Wha...?? MM? Civil Argument? nahhhhhh... :)
Alright, about this religion business. I\'m Catholic, and that\'s all well and good, but the last 2 times I\'ve been in a catholic church were simply for a funeral. When they start ranting their usual stuff, and they ask the whole room to reply as a whole, I don\'t have the damndest clue as to how they know that sutff.
I\'m a passive catholic, and I believe in dinosaurs and such, and there are possibly way that Darwinism and Religion can relate as one, but that\'s for another discussion that I won\'t be caught dead discussing, simply because I don\'t know enough about it.
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by luckee
for it to be that free..one shoudlnt even have to go as long as they prayed or had faith in the least..but it isnt like that now is it?
you\'re right about that, but praying and having faith is not what a church is all about.
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as for the sun shrinking, this is a quote from the stanford solar center:"
There have been claims over the years that the Sun is contracting slowly over time. Here, we examine that claim.
Let us assume that the Sun is shrinking is by gravity. Then from the equation that scientists have for the change of the Sun\'s luminosity (luminosity is an energy output) versus its radius, the Sun would be shrinking in its radius 74 centimeters per year. We would have detected such a noticeable change over the past history (over 500 years this would be a 0.005 arc seconds difference in the radius of the Sun from our viewing position on the Earth), and we haven\'t detected such a change. So our observations don\'t show the Sun to be shrinking by gravitational contraction.
the only place that i found that talked about the sun actually shrinking was at a creationism site, and it\'s research was dated to 1980, remember people let\'s use critical thinking. if you have a greatly bias site providing info that greatly supports there own beliefs, you have to take it with a grain of salt.
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Originally posted by mm
actually, sunday is the 7th day, the day god rested
as should we all
the jewish sabbeth actually goes from friday sunset to saturday sunset...
so sunday is the 1st day.
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About this first day of the week thing:
The common explanation is that the seven-day week was established as imperial calendar in the late Roman empire and furthered by the Christian church for historical reasons. The British Empire used the seven-day week and spread it worldwide. Today the seven-day week is enforced by global business and media schedules, especially television and banking.
The first pages of the Bible explain how God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. This seventh day became the Jewish day of rest, the sabbath, Saturday.
Extra-biblical locations sometimes mentioned as the birthplace of the 7-day week include: Babylon, Persia, and several others. The week was known in Rome before the advent of Christianity.
- http://webexhibits.org/calendars/week.html
AND THEN:[/u]
What Is the First Day of the Week?
The Bible clearly makes the Sabbath the last day of the week, but does not share how that corresponds to our 7 day week. Yet through extra-biblical sources it is possible to determine that the Sabbath at the time of Christ corresponds to our current \'Saturday.\' Therefore it is common Jewish and Christian practice to regard Sunday as the first day of the week (as is also evident from the Portuguese names for the week days). However, the fact that, for example, Russian uses the name "second" for Tuesday, indicates that some nations regard Monday as the first day.
In international standard ISO-8601 the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) has decreed that Monday shall be the first day of the week.
- (same source)
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Originally posted by theomen
I don\'t mean to bag on your reasoning man, but my god, do u have a grip on how crazy this sounds? Your saying that present day man was around during the same time as the dinos? and your saying present day carbon 14 dating can be off by millions of years? this is a bit far fetched
Carbon dating is not as accurate as some people want to believe, we\'re not sure how close it is when we go back really far.
Here\'s what I think (take it for what it\'s worth):
Universe: 12-16 BYA
Our solar system: 5 BYA
Earth formed: 4.5 BYA
Cellular structures evolved on earth: 3.8-3.5 BYA
And that\'s as far as I am now in Organismal Biology @ UGA.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Carbon dating is not as accurate as some people want to believe, we\'re not sure how close it is when we go back really far.
Here\'s what I think (take it for what it\'s worth):
Universe: 12-16 BYA
Our solar system: 5 BYA
Earth formed: 4.5 BYA
Cellular structures evolved on earth: 3.8-3.5 BYA
And that\'s as far as I am now in Organismal Biology @ UGA.
I agree with you, we had this conversation (about carbon 14) in my cultural anthropology class, it isn\'t as acurate as some think, but it is acurate enough to not be off by 64 million years. :) it\'s alos only good for 50,000 years, but there are ways to tell if something came before another, i\'ll get into this in another post, shortly.
as for the shrinking sun argument, this is a link to a scientific study by the asa, i\'ll try to find some more if any1 is interested-
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/Astronomy-Cosmology/PSCF9-86VanTill.html
it\'s quite a good read.
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Originally posted by mm
im VERY serious
if yer a true chrisitan, then its inconceivable that dinosaurs were put on earth by god millions of years before humans. then what? god killed them all?
my ex-fiances parents were VERY, VERY christian and boldly stated that dinosaurs never existed and that they are a facade created by the heathens to support the evolution theory. that the skeletons in musuems were all fake.
i know what yer thinking, :rolleyes:
hang on there mm, how do you know that earth was around millions ago?
the thing is that how old the earth is cannot be proved or disproved by science, because it\'s not observable or repeatable.
the \'old style\' scientists came up with the billions of years earth age from assuming that the rate of change (errosion for example) of the earth was constant.
however, recently \'new style\' scientists found that castrophies (floods, volcanos) can produce the same geological features over a period of a decade, of which \'old style\' scientists would have claimed to take hundreds of thousands of years to form.
so in short, we know dinosaurs did exist (because the skeletons ar there). we don\'t know how long they \'ruled\' the earth.
personally, i won\'t say that dinosaurs ever \'ruled\' the earth, becase God created man to rule the earth on the 6th day.
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Originally posted by Ryu
Besides, who\'s going to Heaven first, the guy who is generally nice to everybody or the guy who would stomp you to death to get to Mariah Carey? Enough said. ;)
being nice is not a key to heaven, neither is stomping someone.
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Originally posted by Alkimo
hang on there mm, how do you know that earth was around millions ago?
the thing is that how old the earth is cannot be proved or disproved by science, because it\'s not observable or repeatable.
the \'old style\' scientists came up with the billions of years earth age from assuming that the rate of change (errosion for example) of the earth was constant.
however, recently \'new style\' scientists found that castrophies (floods, volcanos) can produce the same geological features over a period of a decade, of which \'old style\' scientists would have claimed to take hundreds of thousands of years to form.
so in short, we know dinosaurs did exist (because the skeletons ar there). we don\'t know how long they \'ruled\' the earth.
personally, i won\'t say that dinosaurs ever \'ruled\' the earth, becase God created man to rule the earth on the 6th day.
The oldest rocks which have been found so far (on the Earth) date to about 3.8 to 3.9 billion years ago (by several radiometric dating methods). Some of these rocks are sedimentary, and include minerals which are themselves as old as 4.1 to 4.2 billion years. Rocks of this age are relatively rare, however rocks that are at least 3.5 billion years in age have been found on North America, Greenland, Australia, Africa, and Asia.
While these values do not compute an age for the Earth, they do establish a lower limit (the Earth must be at least as old as any formation on it). This lower limit is at least concordant with the independently derived figure of 4.55 billion years for the Earth\'s actual age.
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Originally posted by ROL Jamas
Wha...?? MM? Civil Argument? nahhhhhh... :)
Alright, about this religion business. I\'m Catholic, and that\'s all well and good, but the last 2 times I\'ve been in a catholic church were simply for a funeral. When they start ranting their usual stuff, and they ask the whole room to reply as a whole, I don\'t have the damndest clue as to how they know that sutff.
I\'m a passive catholic, and I believe in dinosaurs and such, and there are possibly way that Darwinism and Religion can relate as one, but that\'s for another discussion that I won\'t be caught dead discussing, simply because I don\'t know enough about it.
See Yuz.
Yes I am, but I dont want to get into any massive debate.
I believe that dinos were no more dangerous as were any other animal still alive today. I mean, just because scientists think they were man eaters doesnt make it true. Just because they have massive teeth, it doesnt mean they used them for meat (but the certainly may have). Lotsa animals have limbs/features that dont apply directly to lifestyle.
I also dont know enough about all this to coment on alot of it, but I have read alot of interesting things.
Also, if humans evolved from monkeys etc, then why arent animals these days still evolving? There is NO chemical proof to suggest that an animal can morph or evolve over time into something else.
But then again, I dont know much on the subject.
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as i said carbon doesn\'t work for things over 50,000 years old there are ways to date items that are older than 50.000 years.
it involves measurement of three isotopes of lead (Pb-206, Pb-207, and either Pb-208 or Pb-204). A plot is constructed of Pb-206/Pb-204 versus Pb-207/Pb-204.
If the solar system formed from a common pool of matter, which was uniformly distributed in terms of Pb isotope ratios, then the initial plots for all objects from that pool of matter would fall on a single point.
Over time, the amounts of Pb-206 and Pb-207 will change in some samples, as these isotopes are decay end-products of uranium decay (U-238 decays to Pb-206, and U-235 decays to Pb-207). This causes the data points to separate from each other. The higher the uranium-to-lead ratio of a rock, the more the Pb-206/Pb-204 and Pb-207/Pb-204 values will change with time.
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Originally posted by project86
Good question, but what I was trying to get at by posting the Dead Sea Scroll site was that the deeper people look into ancient artifacts, the more they prove that the stories in the Bible are true. Hence the names on the scrolls are that of the names in the Bible...see the correlation. In short, if they as men existed, and the stories about them were true, then maybe the stories about creation are true as well.
in other words, because the bible can be trusted in ALL areas that can be tested, there\'s no reason to doubt it in arears that cannot be tested.
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the final method of dating that i will talk about is relative dating, which will be the easiest to explain. relative dating looks at where artifacts are placed, and what surrounds them. example 3 feet under the ground is a beer bottle burried, 30 feet down is an Aztec neckless, then 60 feet down is the femur bone of a t-rex, logic says that the beer bottle was the last item to be placed there, and the t-rex was the first. and to my knowledge we have yet to find a human artifact, or fosil beneath that of a dino.
as for evolution vs. creationism, i have info on that also, but am too lazy to argue about.
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Also, if humans evolved from monkeys etc, then why arent animals these days still evolving? There is NO chemical proof to suggest that an animal can morph or evolve over time into something else. - Racer
Actually, as far as I know, plants, animals, etc. are still evolving today, but the evolution process takes quite a long time, and doens\'t happen overnight. Examples would be like human mutations and such.
See Yuz.
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ok i got this thing going through my head really quick
god created man in hope of making us his perfect children - but yet we arent perfect - if he is so almighty then why did he screw up when he was creating us and if he didnt make us perfect then why does he punish us if we arent trying to be perfect and believe in him
i swear religion is like a dictatorship - its a do what i say only what i say and follow my words or else you will be sent to hell - wow sounds like a lot of great choices- let me think what im gonna choose :rolleye:
my thing is if we were created here on earth by god and all and to survive we have to kill things and eat them - ummm that doesnt sound very fair to the cow which cant even sin but yet we slaughter it and kill it and its ok with god - wow a little hyprocritical to me - kill cow not people
dont get me wrong i love my steaks - just saying religion is way too hyprocritical at times and i love how their bible isa big theory and stuff and how everything science is a big theory but at least they have reasoning behind their theories - religion just has words
note this rant was not to anyone directly - just me sharing stuff off the top of me head
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Originally posted by ROL Jamas
Actually, as far as I know, plants, animals, etc. are still evolving today, but the evolution process takes quite a long time, and doens\'t happen overnight. Examples would be like human mutations and such.
See Yuz.
you are correct, a great example would be the coccyx, how we as humans are slowly growing out of it, some people have one some don\'t.
oh yeah forgot to mention dendrochronology, as a dating method...
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being nice is not a key to heaven, neither is stomping someone.
What about devoting the majority of your life to the happiness of others? Surely, since I have a girlfriend and will so also have a family, and a house and food to care for and feed them, and devoting your life to their happiness, that there will be great rewards wherever I end up for my acts.
(This paragraph is not specifically directed at anyone on this board)
The funny thing is, there has been more murder and killing in the name of God then there has been for any other cause. Then I see people post crap like like MM quoted from that christian message board. My brother is terminally ill and I love him and care for him moreso then I would any Christian on this Earth, and why? Because unlike those die hard Christians who think that any cripple or retard should be locked away and kept under guard, my brother actually has a soul.
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
ok i got this thing going through my head really quick
god created man in hope of making us his perfect children - but yet we arent perfect - if he is so almighty then why did he screw up when he was creating us and if he didnt make us perfect then why does he punish us if we arent trying to be perfect and believe in him
i swear religion is like a dictatorship - its a do what i say only what i say and follow my words or else you will be sent to hell - wow sounds like a lot of great choices- let me think what im gonna choose :rolleye:
my thing is if we were created here on earth by god and all and to survive we have to kill things and eat them - ummm that doesnt sound very fair to the cow which cant even sin but yet we slaughter it and kill it and its ok with god - wow a little hyprocritical to me - kill cow not people
dont get me wrong i love my steaks - just saying religion is way too hyprocritical at times and i love how their bible isa big theory and stuff and how everything science is a big theory but at least they have reasoning behind their theories - religion just has words
note this rant was not to anyone directly - just me sharing stuff off the top of me head
nice post, good job of thinking for yourself, instead of just regurgitating other peoples thoughts. i have some friends that just can\'t think for themselves to save their lives, and it\'s refreshing to see a post that strays away from conformity.
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What the he**...? You don\'t have to go to Church to be religious...that\'s a bunch of BS...okay?
It doesn\'t say in the bible...go to church or go to hell. You have this thing called freedom...Church is just optional. Never mind...I\'m talking my head off...
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i remember this article that interpeted the bible to say in so many words, that u r supposed to worship in your home, and it was some what blasphamous to pray at a house of worship, ie a church. does any1 know what i\'m talking about?
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
What the he**...? You don\'t have to go to Church to be religious...that\'s a bunch of BS...okay?
It doesn\'t say in the bible...go to church or go to hell. You have this thing called freedom...Church is just optional. Never mind...I\'m talking my head off...
Thats what I said dude, but church just strengthens the faith.
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Originally posted by theomen
The oldest rocks which have been found so far (on the Earth) date to about 3.8 to 3.9 billion years ago (by several radiometric dating methods). Some of these rocks are sedimentary, and include minerals which are themselves as old as 4.1 to 4.2 billion years. Rocks of this age are relatively rare, however rocks that are at least 3.5 billion years in age have been found on North America, Greenland, Australia, Africa, and Asia.
While these values do not compute an age for the Earth, they do establish a lower limit (the Earth must be at least as old as any formation on it). This lower limit is at least concordant with the independently derived figure of 4.55 billion years for the Earth\'s actual age.
if you have a cup of sand, and you leave it outdoors in the wind and rain for as long as you like. it will never sorted into different layers within your lifetime in these \'normal conditions\'
if you have another cup of sand, but this time, you put it into another big glass of water, and you shake it around a bit. and when the particles settly down and sink to the bottom, they\'d be sorted out in layers. and if you leave glass alone outdoors for a few weeks, the water would have evaporated, and and sand at the bottom would be dry.
now imagine that the cup of sand is the size of the earth, and applying the first scenario, then the dating methods will say the earth is billions of years old. (which presents a lot of other problems of which some of the others have already stated)
in the second scenario, if the whole earth is covered with water (which is scientifically possible if all the ice caps melts), then the dating methods cannot be applied because the assumptions that led to the method is wrong.
there are a lot more other established dating methods, but NONE of them take into account the possibility of world wide castrophies such as a Noah\'s flood. so until they can proved that such a flood never happened (which they cannot), then they cannot use the results from their dating methods as facts.
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Originally posted by theomen
as i said carbon doesn\'t work for things over 50,000 years old there are ways to date items that are older than 50.000 years.
it involves measurement of three isotopes of lead (Pb-206, Pb-207, and either Pb-208 or Pb-204). A plot is constructed of Pb-206/Pb-204 versus Pb-207/Pb-204.
If the solar system formed from a common pool of matter, which was uniformly distributed in terms of Pb isotope ratios, then the initial plots for all objects from that pool of matter would fall on a single point.
Over time, the amounts of Pb-206 and Pb-207 will change in some samples, as these isotopes are decay end-products of uranium decay (U-238 decays to Pb-206, and U-235 decays to Pb-207). This causes the data points to separate from each other. The higher the uranium-to-lead ratio of a rock, the more the Pb-206/Pb-204 and Pb-207/Pb-204 values will change with time.
Q) what if the solar system is NOT formed from a common pool of matter? so that the isotope ratios are NOT uniformly distributed? so that the initial plots does NOT fall on the same point.
A) the isotope ratio dating method goes down the toilet.
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Originally posted by Alkimo
if you have a cup of sand, and you leave it outdoors in the wind and rain for as long as you like. it will never sorted into different layers within your lifetime in these \'normal conditions\'
if you have another cup of sand, but this time, you put it into another big glass of water, and you shake it around a bit. and when the particles settly down and sink to the bottom, they\'d be sorted out in layers. and if you leave glass alone outdoors for a few weeks, the water would have evaporated, and and sand at the bottom would be dry.
now imagine that the cup of sand is the size of the earth, and applying the first scenario, then the dating methods will say the earth is billions of years old. (which presents a lot of other problems of which some of the others have already stated)
in the second scenario, if the whole earth is covered with water (which is scientifically possible if all the ice caps melts), then the dating methods cannot be applied because the assumptions that led to the method is wrong.
there are a lot more other established dating methods, but NONE of them take into account the possibility of world wide castrophies such as a Noah\'s flood. so until they can proved that such a flood never happened (which they cannot), then they cannot use the results from their dating methods as facts.
ok here are the big guns, we also have Potasium-Argon dating which is similar to carbon 14, it is used to date volcanic materials, it was used in pompei, it can date between 50,000, and 2 billion years. there is also fission track, which uses tiny little microsopic damage tracks in glass and other materials that have low uranium, these tracks expand at a fixed rate, and are acurate for up to 2billion years.
now for your reasoning, that you won\'t believe in something until they prove the flood never happend. what if i said i wouldn\'t believe something until they prove that a martian came down and populated the earth, with a martian prison colony, like how the brittish did with australia. this theory has as much merit as yours, and is just as difficult to prove wrong.
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Originally posted by theomen
nice post, good job of thinking for yourself, instead of just regurgitating other peoples thoughts. i have some friends that just can\'t think for themselves to save their lives, and it\'s refreshing to see a post that strays away from conformity.
thanks i try this isnt the first time i have questioned religion but mostly i question the way it is taught and the way it seems people corrupt it in the past to their own likings
and about the earth being covered by water - could the sand be taken from way under the ground under the ocean and deep into the earth where they can grind away from rock and test it - also if samples were taken from many places and tested to bring up the same results then doesnt that mean anything - sure if there was a flood such as the one noah talked about in the bible then how can you explain where all that water went if it completely covered the earth - i mean whats it gonna do evaporate and just rain back down onto the water covered earth - doesnt add up to me
sorry if i come off as stupid here but i debating with logic and not the know how of geology and the way dating works
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Originally posted by theomen
the final method of dating that i will talk about is relative dating, which will be the easiest to explain. relative dating looks at where artifacts are placed, and what surrounds them. example 3 feet under the ground is a beer bottle burried, 30 feet down is an Aztec neckless, then 60 feet down is the femur bone of a t-rex, logic says that the beer bottle was the last item to be placed there, and the t-rex was the first. and to my knowledge we have yet to find a human artifact, or fosil beneath that of a dino.
as for evolution vs. creationism, i have info on that also, but am too lazy to argue about.
that because heavier things would sink to the bottom faster, so in the flood, it would be logical that the dino\'s corpse is beheath the human corpse/artifact.
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Darwin\'s theory of evolution is correct and man did evolve from monkeys, True or False? Prove it.
That should be the end of the arguement right there. No one can prove that it is true or that it is false, it\'s all about beliefs, but I assure you, we\'ll all know the answers once I figure out how to build a time machine.:rolleyes:
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well get going on that time machine i have so mant question un answered it boggles the mind i tell ya
like how did te egyptians build the pyramids and stuff like that
there is so much unknown in the world that if i were to die thats the reason i would hope there is a heaven so i can learn about everything i ever wanted to know
see its not that i dont believe or have faith but that i have too many doubts about it - that and i always think in a scientific way i guess
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
like how did te egyptians build the pyramids and stuff like that
Didn\'t you know? It was aliens I tell you!!!
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Originally posted by Alkimo
that because heavier things would sink to the bottom faster, so in the flood, it would be logical that the dino\'s corpse is beheath the human corpse/artifact.
wouldn\'t the dino float, just like the human? like saying a 40000ton vessle would sink faster than a rock, we have to take into consideration that things will be floating. also any artifact that was prevelant to the society would be at the very bottom of the pile, due to it not floating, making the artifact beneath the dino, when everything eventually settled.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
To get back on topic. . .
People were going to church long before football games. So it has nothing to do with the women, it\'s the dumb, evil men that decided to have football when they should be going to church.
In any event, you don\'t have to go to church to go to Heaven, but that\'s a thread long gone, it was a good thread, I miss it.
why do you take evry post so serious? this was nothing about how this thread turned out to be...
I goto work with 7 post\'s..and come back to five pages..WTF??
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
ok i got this thing going through my head really quick
god created man in hope of making us his perfect children - but yet we arent perfect - if he is so almighty then why did he screw up when he was creating us and if he didnt make us perfect then why does he punish us if we arent trying to be perfect and believe in him
i swear religion is like a dictatorship - its a do what i say only what i say and follow my words or else you will be sent to hell - wow sounds like a lot of great choices- let me think what im gonna choose :rolleye:
my thing is if we were created here on earth by god and all and to survive we have to kill things and eat them - ummm that doesnt sound very fair to the cow which cant even sin but yet we slaughter it and kill it and its ok with god - wow a little hyprocritical to me - kill cow not people
dont get me wrong i love my steaks - just saying religion is way too hyprocritical at times and i love how their bible isa big theory and stuff and how everything science is a big theory but at least they have reasoning behind their theories - religion just has words
note this rant was not to anyone directly - just me sharing stuff off the top of me head
God created man and gave us \'free will\', which means we can disobey Him. Sure God can create us in a way that we can\'t disobey him, but then we can\'t love Him at our own \'free will\'.
the question is what God prefers more, a bunch of robots that pleases Him all the time? or real thinking/living people who He can have a relationship with?
it\'s like whether you\'d prefer to have the sony robot dog, or a real dog. the robot dog will always do as you like, but a real dog can be a joy or a pain in the ass.
about the killing of animals:
according to the first few chapters of genesis, God didn\'t create the universe so there\'d be death, but it\'s because of our sins, which had cursed the universe forever. the first death was when kain murdered his brother.
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
and about the earth being covered by water - could the sand be taken from way under the ground under the ocean and deep into the earth where they can grind away from rock and test it - also if samples were taken from many places and tested to bring up the same results then doesnt that mean anything - sure if there was a flood such as the one noah talked about in the bible then how can you explain where all that water went if it completely covered the earth - i mean whats it gonna do evaporate and just rain back down onto the water covered earth - doesnt add up to me
Well, if you read the Bible, it says it rained non stop for forty days and forty nights. It doesnt say how long Noah was left on the ark! He sent out a raven, then a dove. Personally, I think he was still on the boat for another 30-40days AFTER it had finished raining. Also, personally, I dont think it covered the ENTIRE earth, as in, Mt Everest, because that is a MEGA lot of water (maybe it did) but I think it completely covered most continents (Alot of people beleive the seven continents were made during the flood and the broke away).
The water wouldnt have subsided compolety after 40 days, but it definately would have started. Also, the flood was an act of God. He put the water there so he could have easily taken it away.
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Originally posted by ROL Jamas
Actually, as far as I know, plants, animals, etc. are still evolving today, but the evolution process takes quite a long time, and doens\'t happen overnight. Examples would be like human mutations and such.
See Yuz.
mutations are not a prove of evolution.
evolution required a GAIN in the information in the gene, so that single cell organisms evolve into multi cell organisms.
mutation is a LOSS of genetic information, which will eventually cripple the organism.
also, do not confuse natural selection with evolution.
interesting point. long before darwin came up with evolution theory, christian scientists already observed the natural selection process.
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so how did adam and eve survive on air - mmm tasty
also why are we punished for acting on our free will then - and dont give me that we arent punished - i think being sent to an enternity in hell for not believeing in him is quite the punishment - so why give us free will - he didnt ask me hey scott do you want to live on earth - no he didnt - he put me here and if i dont like it then im screwed because i cant kill myself or i go to hell - so well look at that - what kind of free will is that
as for racers flood comment:
ok you ever notice how storms will start over lots of water and stuff from evaporation of the clouds and then them releasing it again - well what happens when all there is is water around and stuff - constant rain - so hmm let see it stops and evaporates all away and bam it rains like hell again so to speak
and the whole god put it there and god can take it away - well im sorry i dont believe in miracles too much
another thing that bothers me about the flood is how he spares noah and tons of people die - are you to tell out of a world of people not one other person was of good nature - or was it just no one else believed in god so they had to die whether they were nice or not . . .hmmm. . .just something to think about!
btw im heading home ill read what yall say when i get there :p
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Originally posted by Ryu
What about devoting the majority of your life to the happiness of others? Surely, since I have a girlfriend and will so also have a family, and a house and food to care for and feed them, and devoting your life to their happiness, that there will be great rewards wherever I end up for my acts.
(This paragraph is not specifically directed at anyone on this board)
The funny thing is, there has been more murder and killing in the name of God then there has been for any other cause. Then I see people post crap like like MM quoted from that christian message board. My brother is terminally ill and I love him and care for him moreso then I would any Christian on this Earth, and why? Because unlike those die hard Christians who think that any cripple or retard should be locked away and kept under guard, my brother actually has a soul.
sorry buddy, but good works do no lead to salvation. gaining salvation is much easier. all is required is what Jesus had done (not what you have done), and that you believe in what He had done for you, and accept the GIFT of salvation.
one thing that you need to recognise is that there\'s a lot of people out there who claims themselves as christians, but some of them are liars... sad, but true.
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not to set anybodies panties on fire, but has anyone read about the core samples taken from a greenland icesheet? Secular critics cite the very existence of the Greenland Ice Sheet, and the paleoenvironmental record it contains, as absolute proof that the Earth is older than 6,000 years and that Noah\'s flood did not happen, as there is no indication of a flood in the ice core layers.
just a little food for thought...
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one thing that you need to recognise is that there\'s a lot of people out there who claims themselves as christians, but some of them are liars... sad, but true.
From now on, I want you to reply to each post in one large post. Practically 90% of all of your posts were in this thread and all of them were multi-paragraphed\\single paragraphs sent to one person with multiple replies in a row. I want those posts combined into one large post now.
Something I do want you to consider, what if the God you believe in is actually someone else from a different faith? Would you try to dissprove he existed as well? Just how shattered would you be if you died and found that all you had spent your life devoting yourself to... was not true? Just food for thought so long as we are discussing "possibilities" and "heresay."
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Well, personally, I\'m an atheist, so I am obviously going to be on the evolution side of the arguement.
First of all, evolution has far more proof to it than religion, as far as I\'ve seen. From my point of view, religion is simply trusting the words of others, who lived thousands of years ago. There is no proof behind things like the flood. Science has extensive proof behind things. Evolution has not been definitely proved, which is why it\'s a theory, not a law, but it does have FAR more proof backing it than anything else, such as the dating methods people have already described. Therefor, it is what I choose to believe. I have learned the hardway though, that it\'s impossible to get certain others to accept this belief, so I won\'t even try.
On a related topic, church, in my opinion does not strengthen a religion. Almost everyone I know who goes to church does not enjoy it. Religion is being forced on them, and they either accept it reluctantly, or reject it entirely. I think it would be much better if it were not force like this. If church weren\'t viewed as such a necessary thing, I believe they\'d be more likely to find religion on their own terms. I believe that that approach would only make it more likely for the person to whole heartedly accept their religion.
As for both football and church being on Sunday, here\'s my reasoning behind it for all of you who have to worry about church and football on the same day: God creates the world in 6 days, and rests on the 7th. And what better way to rest, kick back, and relax than infront of a good football game? It was in this way that football, the sport of gods, was created.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Carbon dating is not as accurate as some people want to believe, we\'re not sure how close it is when we go back really far.
Here\'s what I think (take it for what it\'s worth):
Universe: 12-16 BYA
Our solar system: 5 BYA
Earth formed: 4.5 BYA
Cellular structures evolved on earth: 3.8-3.5 BYA
And that\'s as far as I am now in Organismal Biology @ UGA.
Earth, 4.5 billion years ago?? WTF are you talking about??? Racer has documented proof that the earth has only been around for 6500 years. Apparently the document was created by Racer himself though since about every other sceintific document has the earth as at least 7000 years old.
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Originally posted by Ryu
From now on, I want you to reply to each post in one large post. Practically 90% of all of your posts were in this thread and all of them were multi-paragraphed\\single paragraphs sent to one person with multiple replies in a row. I want those posts combined into one large post now.
Something I do want you to consider, what if the God you believe in is actually someone else from a different faith? Would you try to dissprove he existed as well? Just how shattered would you be if you died and found that all you had spent your life devoting yourself to... was not true? Just food for thought so long as we are discussing "possibilities" and "heresay."
Thats the beauty about it all though Ryu, its FAITH. You believe that what your beleiving in to be true. I mean, wouldnt you be shattered if you lived a life and died, and discovered that there really was a God?
Its pretty deep, too deep for me I\'m afraid, but all I know is that from all the proof out there, Christianity is the religion for me. Its the only one to me that makes sense.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
Earth, 4.5 billion years ago?? WTF are you talking about??? Racer has documented proof that the earth has only been around for 6500 years. Apparently the document was created by Racer himself though since about every other sceintific document has the earth as at least 7000 years old.
Video, dont be stupid. I said it was an ESTIMATE. Gosh, your the one being super anal now. I didnt create the document, as you know. I have read numorous reports stating that the earth is probably only 6-8 thousand years old.
You find a way to continually hate on me. I think its wrong.
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Originally posted by theomen
ok here are the big guns, we also have Potasium-Argon dating which is similar to carbon 14, it is used to date volcanic materials, it was used in pompei, it can date between 50,000, and 2 billion years. there is also fission track, which uses tiny little microsopic damage tracks in glass and other materials that have low uranium, these tracks expand at a fixed rate, and are acurate for up to 2billion years.
now for your reasoning, that you won\'t believe in something until they prove the flood never happend. what if i said i wouldn\'t believe something until they prove that a martian came down and populated the earth, with a martian prison colony, like how the brittish did with australia. this theory has as much merit as yours, and is just as difficult to prove wrong.
like i said, all the dating methods have presumptions that everything started the same, and that the conditions since the beginning had not differed from the conditions of the last few thousand years...
you might have misunderstood my reasoning. i don\'t believe in the dating methods because the assumptions that they are based on does not apply to the world wide flood scenario. so if the flood did took place, none of the dating methods would be valid.
and as for the dated materials, it cannot prove that the method is correct, because no one was around millions of years ago to verify that the rock (or whatever it is under consideration) is indeed that age.
i mean, how can they say that fission track is accurate for 2 billion years, when they probably only just came up with it (let\'s give you the benefit of doubt) a hundred years ago?!? do they verify the results with results of other dating methods?!? are the other dating methods claimed to be accurate to more than 2 billion years?!?
your complement to my reasoning does not have as much merit as mine. i didn\'t make up the flood story. the flood is recorded in the bible, and there are also world wide flood stories recorded in other cultures (decendants of noah). however, there is not a single record of martians comming to earth, infact, there is yet to be any real indications that there are martians, or intelligent space aliens.
the british with australia is not the same a martians to earth, because there documentation of the biritish sending convicts to australia, but none for the martians sending anything to earth.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
Earth, 4.5 billion years ago?? WTF are you talking about??? Racer has documented proof that the earth has only been around for 6500 years. Apparently the document was created by Racer himself though since about every other sceintific document has the earth as at least 7000 years old.
From what I had seen/read, I thought that about 4 billion years is the most widely accepted age of the earth by scientists. I could be wrong though, that\'s mainly from nothing more than freshman Earth Science.
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Thats the beauty about it all though Ryu, its FAITH. You believe that what your beleiving in to be true. I mean, wouldnt you be shattered if you lived a life and died, and discovered that there really was a God?
Its pretty deep, too deep for me I\'m afraid, but all I know is that from all the proof out there, Christianity is the religion for me. Its the only one to me that makes sense.
First of all, nothing would surprise me. I don\'t have all the answers, I have trouble in believing in people who claim that they do thanks to their black shirt, their black book, and the collection plate they pass around.
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Originally posted by theomen
wouldn\'t the dino float, just like the human? like saying a 40000ton vessle would sink faster than a rock, we have to take into consideration that things will be floating. also any artifact that was prevelant to the society would be at the very bottom of the pile, due to it not floating, making the artifact beneath the dino, when everything eventually settled.
no, they won\'t \'float\', because it\'s not sea water that they drowned in. the rain won\'t be the thunder storms that we see today... because the rate of rain would need to cover the WHOLE earth in 40 days. humans are smarter than dinos, so it\'d be likey that they\'d survive a few more days than the dinos.
in the case of a flood, it\'s not just water, but rocks and mud with it. heard of \'stuck in the mud\'? heavier you are, the harder to get out.
dino bones are bigger than human, so they don\'t get crushed as easily, and so they\'re easier to find.
the reproduction rate of man was very slow in the early times (generations from adam to noah is listed in the bible). even if dinos root the same number of times as man, dinos lays many (more than triplets) eggs at a time... so there\'d be a lot more dinos than humans.
artifacts don\'t preserve well when wet, because of the oxygen...
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you might have misunderstood my reasoning. i don\'t believe in the dating methods because the assumptions that they are based on does not apply to the world wide flood scenario. so if the flood did took place, none of the dating methods would be valid.
last post for me in this thread, u say that potassium-argon testing not being acurate if a world wide flood had happened. what differense would it make? water does not cause pottasium or argon to disipate at a more rapid rate, nor at a slower rate. it works the same way as carbon 14, u do know how carbon 14 works, right? there are no assumptions that everything started the same, it figures much like carbon 14, through the half life of the chemical.
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Originally posted by Ryu
First of all, nothing would surprise me. I don\'t have all the answers, I have trouble in believing in people who claim that they do thanks to their black shirt, their black book, and the collection plate they pass around.
Ryu, its just faith. Yes, there are alot of corrupt people in the church, but theres corrupt people everywhere, why should church be different?
Anyways, this topic has gone onto too many different tangents...
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
so how did adam and eve survive on air - mmm tasty
also why are we punished for acting on our free will then - and dont give me that we arent punished - i think being sent to an enternity in hell for not believeing in him is quite the punishment - so why give us free will - he didnt ask me hey scott do you want to live on earth - no he didnt - he put me here and if i dont like it then im screwed because i cant kill myself or i go to hell - so well look at that - what kind of free will is that
as for racers flood comment:
ok you ever notice how storms will start over lots of water and stuff from evaporation of the clouds and then them releasing it again - well what happens when all there is is water around and stuff - constant rain - so hmm let see it stops and evaporates all away and bam it rains like hell again so to speak
and the whole god put it there and god can take it away - well im sorry i dont believe in miracles too much
another thing that bothers me about the flood is how he spares noah and tons of people die - are you to tell out of a world of people not one other person was of good nature - or was it just no one else believed in god so they had to die whether they were nice or not . . .hmmm. . .just something to think about!
btw im heading home ill read what yall say when i get there :p
adam and eve survived on the fruits of the trees in eden... and when they got casted out, then had to \'work the land\', as it says in the bible.
yes, we are being punished, because we have sinned. and because God is just, he cannot leave sin unpunished, and the punishment of sin is death (death as in eternal separation from God). He also know that we cannot bare the punishment, so He provided us with a way (Jesus) to be saved. But because of our free will, He cannot force us to be saved.
as said in the bible, noah\'s family was the ONLY ONE that pleased God, the only family that still lived according to His ways, and that everyone else has turned evil...
we\'d probably don\'t like with what God decided to do, but who are we to question the Creator? are we in a place to set the rules for Him to work with?
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that\'s it, enough, no more talkie!! topic closed!
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Amen brother.
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Hmm. Documented proof of 6 to 8 thousand years ago? Sounds kind of odd to me, since the dating issues have pretty much got it pegged that it was created 4.6 billion years ago.
I COULD go into the dating stuff, but I chose not to pay attention in Geoscience class last semester...probably why I ended up with a 77 percent in the class...meh.
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by Ryu
Darwin\'s theory of evolution is correct and man did evolve from monkeys, True or False? Prove it.
That should be the end of the arguement right there. No one can prove that it is true or that it is false, it\'s all about beliefs, but I assure you, we\'ll all know the answers once I figure out how to build a time machine.:rolleyes:
false.
it can be scientifically and mathematically proved to be impossible, even with the billions of years that he claimed is the age of the earth.
(even those who believe in evolution is shortening the billions of years claim.)
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Video, dont be stupid. I said it was an ESTIMATE. Gosh, your the one being super anal now. I didnt create the document, as you know. I have read numorous reports stating that the earth is probably only 6-8 thousand years old.
You find a way to continually hate on me. I think its wrong.
You should really go back and read what you write. You never did answer the question as to where did all the water go???????
You can\'t have enough water to cover all the continents just vanish. Where did it go????
Rain is just recycled water from evaporation. There is a finite amount of water on the earth and it just keeps circulating. So why are we not living on boats right now? Where did the freaking water go??????
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Then prove it Alkimo, our resident evangelist freak. If it\'s been proven wrong, then why do they still ponder the possibility in schools today?
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Originally posted by Ryu
From now on, I want you to reply to each post in one large post. Practically 90% of all of your posts were in this thread and all of them were multi-paragraphed\\single paragraphs sent to one person with multiple replies in a row. I want those posts combined into one large post now.
Something I do want you to consider, what if the God you believe in is actually someone else from a different faith? Would you try to dissprove he existed as well? Just how shattered would you be if you died and found that all you had spent your life devoting yourself to... was not true? Just food for thought so long as we are discussing "possibilities" and "heresay."
ok, but it\'s hard to keep up... i\'m replying in real time, so... there\'s overlaps. :)
i have considered your point before, and i\'d say i would be unimaginably shattered if any part of what i believe in is not true.
so shattered that it\'d be like going home and find that my ps2 is gone, and i can\'t find another one, and multiply it by a few million times... :)
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Originally posted by theomen
you might have misunderstood my reasoning. i don\'t believe in the dating methods because the assumptions that they are based on does not apply to the world wide flood scenario. so if the flood did took place, none of the dating methods would be valid.
last post for me in this thread, u say that potassium-argon testing not being acurate if a world wide flood had happened. what differense would it make? water does not cause pottasium or argon to disipate at a more rapid rate, nor at a slower rate. it works the same way as carbon 14, u do know how carbon 14 works, right? there are no assumptions that everything started the same, it figures much like carbon 14, through the half life of the chemical.
not quite. the carbon 14 dating method assumes (again) that the isotope degenerate at a constant rate over all time. now if the proportion of carbon 14 to normal carbon is different in the past, then the degeneration/escape rate would be different. same thing with argon.
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I believe that dinos were no more dangerous as were any other animal still alive today. I mean, just because scientists think they were man eaters doesnt make it true. Just because they have massive teeth, it doesnt mean they used them for meat (but the certainly may have). Lotsa animals have limbs/features that dont apply directly to lifestyle.
I also dont know enough about all this to coment on alot of it, but I have read alot of interesting things.
Also, if humans evolved from monkeys etc, then why arent animals these days still evolving? There is NO chemical proof to suggest that an animal can morph or evolve over time into something else.
what are you kidding me?? first of all, dinosaurs were NOT man eaters, as man didnt exist at the same time as dinosaurs...this has been proven. Second of all, the REASON some dinosaurs had sharp teeth was SO they could eat meat.. all animals in the world have different types of teeth (and other features) depending on what their main food source is.. Humans have a combination as we are omnivorous... carnivorous animals (IE. Dinosaurs) have sharp teeth. Third of all, not all dinosaurs had sharp teeth, many were vegesaurs :D herbivores, and that was because they ate folliage, there is reason to everything. now, making a seg-way into your second point... once these features become useless after several generations evolution takes place and these features are changed. Evolution IS still happening today.. even as we speak. Humans are different from what we were hundreds/thousands of years ago. Taller, smaller brains/skulls, various resistances to diseases etc. etc. these changes are small (and may be brought on partly by ourselves) but they are the beginnings of evolution... if you think humans will be as they are today, 3000 years from now... then...hmm... lets party :D
Earth, 4.5 billion years ago?? WTF are you talking about??? Racer has documented proof that the earth has only been around for 6500 years. Apparently the document was created by Racer himself though since about every other sceintific document has the earth as at least 7000 years old.
hahaha :D good one
Video, dont be stupid. I said it was an ESTIMATE. Gosh, your the one being super anal now. I didnt create the document, as you know. I have read numorous reports stating that the earth is probably only 6-8 thousand years old.
You find a way to continually hate on me. I think its wrong.
it was just a joke, YOU need to stop being so stupid and grow a sense of humour. I mean, your going to hell anyway (bible forbids homosexual orgies in Gym class) so you might as well have fun with the rest of your life... before suffering an eternity in a state of mind without god (hell)...
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
I mean, your going to hell anyway (bible forbids homosexual orgies in Gym class) so you might as well have fun with the rest of your life... before suffering an eternity in a state of mind without god (hell)...
Ick. Not a good thing to say.:(
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Hehehe, I did NOT have a homosexual orgy in gym class.
My female teacher was watching, so technically it was hetrosexual :D
As to do with the water issue, like I said, for that amount of water to be produced to cover all the continents, you would need an act of God. So, an act of God could remove all the water too.
Only Noah was saved because Noah was the only one that believed it would rain (it had NEVER rained before the flood).
This is in Genesis.
Anyways.
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
I mean, your going to hell anyway (bible forbids homosexual orgies in Gym class) so you might as well have fun with the rest of your life... before suffering an eternity in a state of mind without god (hell)...
Funniest thing on this site in a long freaking time.
But you\'re going to hell for it.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Hehehe, I did NOT have a homosexual orgy in gym class.
My female teacher was watching, so technically it was hetrosexual :D
Ah, so your "Female" teacher was in your locker room watching a bunch of school aged boys in the shower.
alrighty then.
Sounds about as probably as the world only being 6500 years old. Hell, I have underwear that old.
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Originally posted by Alkimo
adam and eve survived on the fruits of the trees in eden... and when they got casted out, then had to \'work the land\', as it says in the bible.
yes, we are being punished, because we have sinned. and because God is just, he cannot leave sin unpunished, and the punishment of sin is death (death as in eternal separation from God). He also know that we cannot bare the punishment, so He provided us with a way (Jesus) to be saved. But because of our free will, He cannot force us to be saved.
as said in the bible, noah\'s family was the ONLY ONE that pleased God, the only family that still lived according to His ways, and that everyone else has turned evil...
we\'d probably don\'t like with what God decided to do, but who are we to question the Creator? are we in a place to set the rules for Him to work with?
ok all i want to know is what gives him the right to create people - no one should be given the power of god - not even himself - how can i get my say - i was created with feelings by him so why cant i have feelings on whether i want to live at all - and then if i were to decide i didnt want to live what can i do about it - sure i could kill myself and be punished an enternity in hell - but that isnt much of a choice is it
you know what else that sounds like - sounds like slavery to me - do what i say or ill break your ankle kind of deal - you live here because im your master and i put you there
yeap defintely sounds like slavery - i think ill pass - no one owns me but me
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Wait.. Let me get this straight..
How long ago did this flooding happen?
And were all people killed except the captain and his crew (3 men 4 women if the Hallmark movies are anything to go by?)
All of them were Jews right?
How come the "races" could evolve out of just 4 couples? (well.. 3 couples cuz Noah was a old guy.. Or did they have viagra?) In such a short time?
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Originally posted by Ryu
Then prove it Alkimo, our resident evangelist freak. If it\'s been proven wrong, then why do they still ponder the possibility in schools today?
the mathematical prove is at home, but i\'m at work... so i can\'t get to it. i\'ll post it in a new thread when i get home. but the thread\'s might be a few pages long.... so as long as you promise that you won\'t delete it.... might take a few days as well, cos i want to work on that bin laden picture thing...
basically, one of the scientific evidence that evolution doesn\'t apply at the macroscopic level is the law of thermodynamics. that when energy is converted from one form to another, some of that energy doesn\'t get converted and becomes useless. which opposes the idea of galixies forming from a simple explosion.
the mathematical evidence works on the human evolution level. that if one mutation happens every second, and then by calculating the number of theoretical positive mutations would take from a single cell organism to human, it\'d take a lot more than 100 billiion years.
and then there\'s the minimum operation number theory, which effectivly rules out the evolution of separate parts over time. a mouse trap requires some 11 components to work properly, and if one of the components are missing, then the trap would cease to function. now apply the same principle to the human body, the eco system, universe...etc which are a lot more complicated than a mouse trap.
as for the school thing, that\'s because:
- the contents are out of date
- evolution is badly mistaken as scientific, and creation is not.
- schools are mostly not allowed to teach about religion.
eh, i give up, i can\'t keep up with the threads... at least i doubled my no. of posts in this thread. but anyone who is interested in the topic can message or email me :)
alkimo@start.com.au
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Races didnt become until the Tower of Baybal.
Its all IN THE BIBLE. If you pick it up, sit down for acouple of hours and read it, then your questions will be answered.
There was Noah, his wife and his 8 children or something, along with their husbands and wifes.
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...nevermind
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Racer, you of all people should believe in Evolution and the constant evolving of humans... i mean...when you look at mariah carey and get turned on, you dont even have to try, you\'ve pleasured yourself over her enough times already it must be permanently attached...
you can be the new X-Man - Orgasmo, one arm free to fight evil, the other permanantl attached to your penis for easy access tension relief and blinding of oncoming enemies - never has a facial been so deadly
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I am thoroughly confused by all of this. It seems like no one who speaks of the bible makes any sense what so ever. It\'s a book of stories from people who more than likely imagined a lot of really cool stuff as they smoked weed.
Bill, "Dude, look, the river is parting."
Ted, "Bogus"
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Races didnt become until the Tower of Baybal.
Its all IN THE BIBLE. If you pick it up, sit down for acouple of hours and read it, then your questions will be answered.
There was Noah, his wife and his 8 children or something, along with their husbands and wifes.
Oh.. Well I didnt pay attention when we talked about god in KINDERGARTEN..
I think we own a bible.. I got it in school when a woman was handing out free once.
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Originally posted by fastson
I think we own a bible.. I got it in school when a woman was handing out free once.
curse those gideons!! *shakes fist*
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Originally posted by fastson
I think we own a bible.
I\'ve stolen a few out of hotel rooms.
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Whoa. Totally. *plays air guitar*
Now ya see, we should be talking about Bill and Ted, and not this confusing evangilist darwinism evolution of the christians...oh ****, I don\'t have the slightest damn clue anymore. This topic is starting to make my head hurt, and it really needs to go away.
What is comes down to is beliefs. No one\'s belief is right or wrong in the eyes of others, it\'s just that, their belief. If you\'re going to argue over someone\'s belief over another one\'s belief, you\'re going to have one heck of a time arguing about it. The debate is endless, and there is no right or wrong answer. Debating over it is just going to make someone offended, sad, or just downright pissed off, so before someone tries to cut someone else\'s throat over this, how about we like, ya know, leave it be.
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
I\'ve stolen a few out of hotel rooms.
always a good way to get in the lord\'s good books
UGH! THAT WAS AN ACCIDENTAL PUN!! ****! DAMMIT! DONT HATE ME!
i was going to make a joke, but that accidental one just ruined everything..
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Hehehee, peoples, I am not that obsessed with Mariah Carey! Gosh, your making me sound like a horny moron :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by ROL Jamas
The debate is endless, and there is no right or wrong answer.
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone is right...... except racer.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Races didnt become until the Tower of Baybal.
Its all IN THE BIBLE. If you pick it up, sit down for acouple of hours and read it, then your questions will be answered.
There was Noah, his wife and his 8 children or something, along with their husbands and wifes.
So the Bible is fact:rolleyes: , just because its on paper doesn\'t mean its right ( boz writes the world is 4.6 billion years old on paper ) - haha it must be a fact then.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Hehehee, peoples, I am not that obsessed with Mariah Carey! Gosh, your making me sound like a horny moron :rolleyes:
your not fooling anyone orgasmo *gets a steaming hot facial* OH SWEET JESUS IT BURNS!! AARRRGH, SO SALTY AND..........*gone too far*
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Originally posted by Videoholic
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone is right...... except racer.
Here, here [or whatever they say..]
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Originally posted by Videoholic
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone is right...... except racer.
You just hate me.
I think I am the most hated person on these forums.
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Haha, yeah yeah, except Racer. He\'s not included in what I said...yeahhh. (Mariah Carey? Haha! ;-) )
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
ok all i want to know is what gives him the right to create people - no one should be given the power of god - not even himself - how can i get my say - i was created with feelings by him so why cant i have feelings on whether i want to live at all - and then if i were to decide i didnt want to live what can i do about it - sure i could kill myself and be punished an enternity in hell - but that isnt much of a choice is it
you know what else that sounds like - sounds like slavery to me - do what i say or ill break your ankle kind of deal - you live here because im your master and i put you there
yeap defintely sounds like slavery - i think ill pass - no one owns me but me
hmmm... you\'d better sit back and have another think about what you wrote...
you are seeing all these with a selfish perspective (the slavery thing). don\'t go off at me, but questioning/doubting God is an act of selfishness...
for fastson:
flooding would be roughly around 4000 to 5000 years ago.
there was 4 men and 4 women. noah and 3 sons, with their wifes.
no, they\'re not jews. there wasn\'t any distinction of races then.
races did not evolve. there\'s an incident in the bible after the flood where the human population have gone evil again, and tried to build a tower that would reach the skies, so show their \'greatness\'. God didn\'t like it, so He changed the language and appearance of them, so that they cannot communicate with each other (cannot finish the tower), and hence the different races.
ok, this really is the last post for me... can\'t keep up...
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Originally posted by Alkimo
for fastson:
flooding would be roughly around 4000 to 5000 years ago.
there was 4 men and 4 women. noah and 3 sons, with their wifes.
no, they\'re not jews. there wasn\'t any distinction of races then.
races did not evolve. there\'s an incident in the bible after the flood where the human population have gone evil again, and tried to build a tower that would reach the skies, so show their \'greatness\'. God didn\'t like it, so He changed the language and appearance of them, so that they cannot communicate with each other (cannot finish the tower), and hence the different races.
That sounds really believable.
Just like the Viking sagas..
Bet.. What makes the Christian belief more true than the Nordic mythology? :nerd:
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
You just hate me.
I think I am the most hated person on these forums.
Hmm I wonder why your not liked, first its you wrestling nude with men, then your non stop love for mariah, and now your radical ideas:rolleyes:
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no, its because he cant take a joke and has no sense of humour
:p
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About the mathematic impossibilities of evolution:
There are a few flaws in your reasoning. First of all, how can you calculate the number of mutations such a process would take? The very fact that you said it would take more than a 100 billion years makes me doubt these numbers are accurate, simply because to get such a number, someone would have had to calculate the number of mutations it would take to go from single cell organism to animal. That would be 3,153,600,000,000,000,000 mutations. First of all, who could have accurately calculate such a number. I mean, even just 1% error throws your mathematical evidence off a billion years. It is impossible to calculate such numbers with any accuracy.
Secondly, what constitutes a mutation? If it is the change of one piece of genetic information, that\'s inaccurate as well. When a mutation happens, it doesn\'t happen slowly. It happens suddenly, and takes a long time to become dominant due to natural selection. A mutation can change a lot of genetic information, relatively quickly.
Want an example? A really basic one is looking at the average human. The average human right now is taller than a few hundred years ago. This is a slight change in our nature, a slight mutation if you will. One mainly due to improved conditions in cities, and improved diets. Now, if the average height of humans can change noticeably in a few 100 years, an incredibly small amount of time compared to 4 billion years, a lot can happen a lot quicker than you are saying.
As for thermodynamics, I don\'t know too much in detail about it, but I can say that your reasoning here is useless as well. Why does the idea that the convertion of energy from one form to another make the creation of galaxies from an explosion impossible? I mean, not all the energy from the explosion necessarily has to be used in the creation of these galaxies. We don\'t have specific numbers, it\'s just theoretical. There is no way you can prove that even with the loss of energy, there wasn\'t enough remaining to create galaxies.
As for your mouse trap thing, that doesn\'t work either, simply because in a mutation, more than one simple piece of genetic information is changed. Mutations aren\'t as slow as you are implying. They are rather rapid things, it is natural selection that takes time.
As for schools, the information is not really out of date at all. If evolution were not scientifically sound, it would not be the most widely accepted theory. If you ask me, creationism is the thing that is inaccurate, and outdated. And I also believe religion should definitely stay out of schools. Yeah.
A bit of a disclaimer to finish this post with. I don\'t know any of this subject matter extensively. The fact is, we are all arguing against opposing theories created by people who are likely much much smarter and more knowledgable than anyone here. So...yeah.
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hmm...either I took too long to write that last post, or you all post too fast :(
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
no, its because he cant take a joke and has no sense of humour
:p
Well thats the obvious, all we did was make fun of him non-stop after his story, I don\'t get why he got so up tight:laughing:
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Originally posted by shockwaves
hmm...either I took too long to write that last post, or you all post too fast :(
i had same problem...
anyway, i\'ll write those theories out properly, which should address the \'flaws\' that you mentioned. and if i\'m allowed to post them (mods? it might be long...), i\'ll put it in a new thread.
just wondering, are there any limitations to post size?
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WOW! :surprised
i cant believe we have a 6 page thread debating religion and its remained civil and intellectual
congrats guy, this proves yet again we have a strong [intelligent] community here
respect for alkimo [even if he is a newb] for adding very insightfull opinion
good thing soulgrind hasnt come in here with his ignorant rambling or Eiksirf with his rational sense
:P
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Originally posted by mm
WOW! :surprised
i cant believe we have a 6 page thread debating religion and its remained civil and intellectual
congrats guy, this proves yet again we have a strong [intelligent] community here
you..uhh...you didnt read my posts did you??
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so let me get this right, so after the rain was over, the people on the boat were safe, and there was Gilligan, The Skipper too, The millionaire and his wife, The movie star, The professor and Mary Ann?
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Originally posted by fastson
That sounds really believable.
Just like the Viking sagas..
Bet.. What makes the Christian belief more true than the Nordic mythology? :nerd:
here\'s a question why is Christianity a "religion" while Greek, and Roman religion is called mythology? i may be wrong but both of them have just as much merit as the other. because does anyone have iron clad proof that either exicted or not? oh wait i forgot if it\'s written down it must be true.
*TheOmen writes down that Zeus is the one true god of gods...then writes that TheOmen has a giant wang, smiles and waits for growth...*
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Bossieman enters, reads the topic and decide that when he comes home from work today he will reply to this topic. Prepare!!!
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Originally posted by Bossieman
Bossieman enters, reads the topic and decide that when he comes home from work today he will reply to this topic. Prepare!!!
Ive been waiting for this :D
Biggest. Reply. Ever. Coming up. :p
in case anyone doesnt know Bossie man is a STRONG supporter of the creation theories and wont let anyone tell him about none of this darwinism or carbon dating bull**** :p
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lol bob\'s harware!! :D
Whether you believe in it or not, religion is the topic that brings about the most debate per thread on this forum.
Why do you think that is? People always lookin\' for a lil soul food perhaps?
*not a sermon, just a thought*
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The carbon dating bull**** as you say, should really be undisputable. Yes, we know that certain elements or compounds have a known rate of decay. Yes, we can say that said rock is 3 million years old.
*flips sides*
God could have made the world 5000 years ago, complete with fossils, and 2.99 billion year old rocks and isotopes. After all, if God is perfect, then he would really make the planet perfect.
*flips sides*
But then why would he tell us through human mediums not any more believable than joe-crackpot that the world is 5000 years old, when he knew we would not be able to rationalize this with the scientific evidence?
*flips sides*
God works in mysterious ways, my son, it is not up to you to question his will. Just live by it.
*flips sides*
So I can\'t question things he (if he\'s omnipotent/all powerfull) must have left on purpose here for me to question, and I can\'t choose incorrectly because I could damn my sould to an eternity of torment.
*flips sides*
Yeah.
*flips sides*
Right.
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Well, just to throw another thing in the mix.
What about Allah,Buddah, etc......
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Originally posted by luckee
Well, just to throw another thing in the mix.
What about Allah,Buddah, etc......
They are idols. Anyone who thinks worshipping a stone statue is gonna help needs serious metal therapy.
No offense, but man, do you seriously think a piece of stone carved as a fat man can help you?
And before you jump to the \'Cant see God so how is he real thing\' God is real, he is spiritual ie, he is in another realm, a spiritual realm.
This is too deep for me anyways.
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i\'ll leave you alone on that one racer
:rolleyes:
This is too deep for me anyways.
yes perhaps you should have stuck to yer mariah carey threads
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Originally posted by mm
yes perhaps you should have stuck to yer mariah carey threads
ohhhh, he\'ll stick to them alright...if you know...what i mean ;)...and i think...that you do.... *various disturbing mental images*
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Man, did I miss out on all the fun or what. Darn those Hallmark Holidays. To think I had to suffer with my wife alone last night and miss all this fun. Well, I’ve been reading through all the stuff here that I missed out on and I find that there are some extremely intelligent people here. On the flip side however, there are some that seem not to be so intelligent. I’ve studied Christian theology for the better part of my life. Having gone to a private school all of my life though didn’t cloud my vision for those that I come in contact with in my every day walk. The reason that we as humans are here is far more important to me than how we got here. Don’t get me wrong, I love a debate as well as the next guy. I just think that as this thread has become evidence of, people get so caught up in the argument that they forget to remember that we are all brothers and sisters. I know that saying that could be an argument in itself so let me enlighten you. If you believe in “creation” then you know we all are descendants of Adam (which in the Hebrew language means earth or dirt), that would mean that we are all related through blood. If you believe that we evolved, then you know that we all came from a pile of goo or a large explosion of sorts (sorry for the term “goo”, I’m not familiar with the technical terms). We then would also be related through blood. This argument is cool and all, but hey as for me a “Christian”, I have decided to show as much love to my fellow brothers and sisters in the name of Jesus Christ. Don’t think for a minute that I’m supposed to be a perfect person either. I’m not! In fact, that could be stated as another reason why I go to church.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
They are idols. Anyone who thinks worshipping a stone statue is gonna help needs serious metal therapy.
No offense, but man, do you seriously think a piece of stone carved as a fat man can help you?
And before you jump to the \'Cant see God so how is he real thing\' God is real, he is spiritual ie, he is in another realm, a spiritual realm.
This is too deep for me anyways.
You do realize that the largest religion in the world is Muslim right?
And as far as worshipping a statue and how stupid it is, what\'s that 4" gold cross you have with the 20" link chain around your neck?
BOZCO:
Hmm I wonder why your not liked, first its you wrestling nude with men, then your non stop love for mariah, and now your radical ideas
That plus the 50 posts about GT3 before it came out. Then he gets it early and says it\'s no big deal. Tehn when everyone else gets it he talks bad about it and says the game has too many jaggies and crap. I don\'t remember specifics, but I remember how annyoing it was. Maybe you should throw up a Mariah Carey thread and devert some religous tension to her thread.
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Originally posted by project86
Man, did I miss out on all the fun or what. Darn those Hallmark Holidays. To think I had to suffer with my wife alone last night and miss all this fun. Well, I’ve been reading through all the stuff here that I missed out on and I find that there are some extremely intelligent people here. On the flip side however, there are some that seem not to be so intelligent. I’ve studied Christian theology for the better part of my life. Having gone to a private school all of my life though didn’t cloud my vision for those that I come in contact with in my every day walk. The reason that we as humans are here is far more important to me than how we got here. Don’t get me wrong, I love a debate as well as the next guy. I just think that as this thread has become evidence of, people get so caught up in the argument that they forget to remember that we are all brothers and sisters. I know that saying that could be an argument in itself so let me enlighten you. If you believe in “creation” then you know we all are descendants of Adam (which in the Hebrew language means earth or dirt), that would mean that we are all related through blood. If you believe that we evolved, then you know that we all came from a pile of goo or a large explosion of sorts (sorry for the term “goo”, I’m not familiar with the technical terms). We then would also be related through blood. This argument is cool and all, but hey as for me a “Christian”, I have decided to show as much love to my fellow brothers and sisters in the name of Jesus Christ. Don’t think for a minute that I’m supposed to be a perfect person either. I’m not! In fact, that could be stated as another reason why I go to church.
I like the post, put could you please hit the key once and a while. Tough to read when it\'s not broken up.
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Sorry man, had a lot of things racing through my mind, so the [enter] key got ignored...Thanks for the advice friend.:)
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Hehe, my eyes are getting bad in my old age.....:D
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yeah, thats why
we like posts that
are spaced out like
this
oh, and
chicks dig the meat
:)
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Mankind is weak, so many people need something/someone to believe in. Why do you think there are so many different religions?
BTW, why is Christianity the only \'right\' religion? What about buddists etc? Are they wrong? I asked a teacher about that some 10 years ago. She could only give a lame*** answer - so nothing\'s changed there.
And no one will change their opinion when they have already been brainwa... ops, I mean, have formed their opinion. But it doesn\'t matter to me - I have accepted it and people can believe what they want.
Oh, and Racer said something earlier about "what if you died and found out there is a god" - well, good thing you\'re covered then. :rolleyes:
What if you died and found out there was ...... nothing. Muahaha, all those church hours for nothing. ;)
Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
you can be the new X-Man - Orgasmo, one arm free to fight evil, the other permanantl attached to your penis for easy access tension relief and blinding of oncoming enemies - never has a facial been so deadly
OMG, I swear you\'re on a roll today. You\'re killing me with laughter! :laughing:
Thanks man. :)
*goes kill some Swedes in a holy war*
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Originally posted by Videoholic
Hehe, my eyes are getting bad in my old age.....:D
yes...but more importantly, how is Mr. Winky going?
:p
*is a dirty little boy*
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
yes...but more importantly, how is Mr. Winky going?
:p
*is a dirty little boy*
Old age shows no favoritism man.:D
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
yes...but more importantly, how is Mr. Winky going?
:p
*is a dirty little boy*
I dunno, but I have a kid. ANd I think he just locked himself in the bathroom...
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Originally posted by luckee
why do you take evry post so serious? this was nothing about how this thread turned out to be...
I goto work with 7 post\'s..and come back to five pages..WTF??
I could easily say "why do you take every post so lax?"
Anyways, about evolution, there is recorded evidence of tiny, tiny changes made in the last 100 years in most species, give yourself a million years, and that\'s plenty of change. Who\'s to say that God didn\'t create us in his image, and then through sin, we changed from that image, to adapt to the environment outside of the garden of Eden? And who\'s to say that a day during creation was 24 hours?
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
I could easily say "why do you take every post so lax?"
Anyways, about evolution, there is recorded evidence of tiny, tiny changes made in the last 100 years in most species, give yourself a million years, and that\'s plenty of change. Who\'s to say that God didn\'t create us in his image, and then through sin, we changed from that image, to adapt to the environment outside of the garden of Eden? And who\'s to say that a day during creation was 24 hours?
Now thats a statment I was waiting to hear. Some say that a day to God can be thousands of years to us....I wonder. Well it\'s imposible to prove that theory so I won\'t even go there.:D
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Originally posted by project86
Now thats a statment I was waiting to hear. Some say that a day to God can be thousands of years to us....I wonder. Well it\'s imposible to prove that theory so I won\'t even go there.:D
Yeah, I\'ve heard that before. That the 7 days aren\'t really seven days, but many many years.
So the way I figure it, we are either suppose to be in church not only Sunday, but for many years at a time, or we are not suppose to go to church for many years to come.
PS: I got Logan out of the bathroom. Everything is OK.
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My answer to the Question; "should I go to church" is simple. I found a church that I love to attend. Lots of friends, nobody that shoves a bible down my throat and they helped me get involved in some cool outreach programs to help out those less fortunate in the inner city projects. Its great when you can make a difference as one person, but it\'s even better when you make a huge difference with a large group of people.:)
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Originally posted by project86
My answer to the Question; "should I go to church" is simple. I found a church that I love to attend. Lots of friends, nobody that shoves a bible down my throat and they helped me get involved in some cool outreach programs to help out those less fortunate in the inner city projects. Its great when you can make a difference as one person, but it\'s even better when you make a huge difference with a large group of people.:)
Now that is what it\'s all about. I went to a church one time for Christmas service and the preacher, knowing he had the largest crowd of the year, spent 80% of the sermon talking about some new cathedral they were building and how they needed money.
I immediately took my ten spot and placed it back in my pocket.
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Yeah, I know whatcha mean man. It\'s tough for a pastor to talk about tithes and offerings. But you have to admit man; it takes money to do much around this world. I hate greed, but if I feel it\'s for a worthy cause, I give it up (especially if it helps people).
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
They are idols. Anyone who thinks worshipping a stone statue is gonna help needs serious metal therapy.
No offense, but man, do you seriously think a piece of stone carved as a fat man can help you?
And before you jump to the \'Cant see God so how is he real thing\' God is real, he is spiritual ie, he is in another realm, a spiritual realm.
This is too deep for me anyways.
This has got to be one of the most ignorant things I have heard in my life to date. How is a stone statue any different from a wooden cross? Or perhaps a gold cross with jesus on it...or perhaps *virgin* mary statues?
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especially if it helps people
yeah it helps the pastor p1mp around in his phat lincoln continental with every available option
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by theomen
here\'s a question why is Christianity a "religion" while Greek, and Roman religion is called mythology? i may be wrong but both of them have just as much merit as the other. because does anyone have iron clad proof that either exicted or not? oh wait i forgot if it\'s written down it must be true.
*TheOmen writes down that Zeus is the one true god of gods...then writes that TheOmen has a giant wang, smiles and waits for growth...*
No.. There is no proof that neither of them excised.. (Just a lot of Rune Stones and Icelandic sagas)
The Vikings liked to design their gods to what they liked to do.
Like drink a lot.. Party. Have se... I mean have fun with women (:D) kill Christian monks and sacrifice them to Odin by hanging them in trees along with horses, goats ect. (Thats the best gift of them all)
So I dunno.. What makes the Christian religon better? (Apart from no killing, raping and drinking)
*goes kill some Swedes in a holy war*
We belong to the same religion smartypants :p (Declares jihad)
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hell yeah, fastson, sounds like the vikings knew how to party!
*chugs a beer, throws it up, kick cats around while breaking furniture....rapes, pillages..
ahhhhhhhh much better!
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Racer your so blinded by christianity its sad, pull the cross out of your ass and think for just two seconds, no religion is the "right" religion, your opinion on the whole buddha statue thing is sad, anyways worshiping to the buddha statue doesn\'t mean they don\'t think of it as a spirtual thing also, its just like a cross.
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IMO, christianity=brainwashing.
Why the f*ck else would anyone say such retarded things about the dinosaurs. Remember, this is the same religion used to kill people for saying that the Earth wasn\'t the center of the universe. Duh.
Here we go, I\'m starting my own religion. PLease join me in worshipping Bombo, the nasty goat. He forbids you to eat broccoli on wednesday, you must have sex on or before your first date(if at all possible) , and beer is the blood of his son. Oh yeah, he created the universe yesterday, and every memory you have before then is a bad dream. He created dinosaur fossils just to confuse us. He can do magical and wonderful things, but never does. If you\'re bad, when you die you go to (shudder) Pittsburgh.
sorry, I\'m delirious with fever right now.
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I haven\'t joined in yet (atleast I think). I believe in God and Jesus. I however don\'t believe in a nice chunk of the Old Testament. They to me are just stories passed on. I believe in more science now. I don\'t believe God created everything. I believe in the big bang theory. I don\'t believe he created man. I believe in evolution. I believe that life started in a primortial soup billions of years ago by a spark of lightning or just a spark. Weird what one year of school can do to many years of religion. I guess I\'m in that stage of life when I open my eyes and see reality.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
They are idols. Anyone who thinks worshipping a stone statue is gonna help needs serious metal therapy.
No offense, but man, do you seriously think a piece of stone carved as a fat man can help you?
And before you jump to the \'Cant see God so how is he real thing\' God is real, he is spiritual ie, he is in another realm, a spiritual realm.
This is too deep for me anyways.
Buddha is not an idol, hell he\'s not even a diety(sp) he was just a guy that didn\'t believein suffering. also Buddhism isn\'t a total religion really, it\'s more of a philosophy in many aspects.
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Originally posted by Titan
I haven\'t joined in yet (atleast I think). I believe in God and Jesus. I however don\'t believe in a nice chunk of the Old Testament. They to me are just stories passed on. I believe in more science now. I don\'t believe God created everything. I believe in the big bang theory. I don\'t believe he created man. I believe in evolution. I believe that life started in a primortial soup billions of years ago by a spark of lightning or just a spark. Weird what one year of school can do to many years of religion. I guess I\'m in that stage of life when I open my eyes and see reality.
OK, so where does your belief in God and Jesus fit into tyour picture of the big bang/ evolution.
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ok, Titan\'s statements are the most honest and intelligent ones made by someone here who does believe in god. Believing in god can give you a sense of security, and keeping a faith can make you feel more at peace, I understand. Just as long as you don\'t buy into all the BS, and you have the objectivity to realise that maybe everything your parents told you isn\'t true. (remember Santa & the Easter bunny?)
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remember, Catholisism teaches that the Bible is not meant to be taken literally...
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Man this thred has gone on a bit!! I think i gave up on this one when it reached the second page!! I think its got the most replies i have ever seen, except for one of those latino ones maybe
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Originally posted by The_Rickster
Man this thred has gone on a bit!! I think i gave up on this one when it reached the second page!! I think its got the most replies i have ever seen, except for one of those latino ones maybe
It\'s amazing how any topic that relates to religion or church gets this many posts. What’s cool is all the different views, I\'d say it\'s enlightening to see that we all have different perspectives. It\'s all about the flava!:)
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Originally posted by Videoholic
OK, so where does your belief in God and Jesus fit into tyour picture of the big bang/ evolution.
I\'m just saying that I believe in God and Jesus and all of the New Testament but don\'t believe in quite a bit of the Old Testament. I\'m saying what I believe in instead which is mostly science.
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Originally posted by Titan
I\'m just saying that I believe in God and Jesus and all of the New Testament but don\'t believe in quite a bit of the Old Testament. I\'m saying what I believe in instead which is mostly science.
for you, what separates the old from the new?? what makes one part true, and the rest bull****? Science says one part is wrong, and theres nothing to dispute in the other half, so why question it? your standards are wrong..
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Ok, let me put it simply. After Jesus was born, I believe in 100% of it. Pre Jesus, I don\'t believe in a good deal of it. Namely God creating the Earth in 7 days, Adam and Eve. I believe in Abraham, Moses and the plagues and Joshua blowing down the walls of Jericho.
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i\'m just glad to see that this topic has gone 8 pages without anybody acting like a complete ass, hell even Bob has acted somewhat civilized....well civilized for him..
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Originally posted by Titan
Ok, let me put it simply. After Jesus was born, I believe in 100% of it. Pre Jesus, I don\'t believe in a good deal of it. Namely God creating the Earth in 7 days, Adam and Eve. I believe in Abraham, Moses and the plagues and Joshua blowing down the walls of Jericho.
yeah, i understood what you meant, i want to know why you believe 100% of the new testament and only some of the old testament?? how can you believe one part of it, and not the other?
Originally posted by theomen
i\'m just glad to see that this topic has gone 8 pages without anybody acting like a complete ass, hell even Bob has acted somewhat civilized....well civilized for him..
Son of a...
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Hmmm. After reading all 9 pages, I was surprised that AlteredBeast hasn\'t posted yet. He is usually right in the middle of these kinds of threads. :)
I am a little skeptical of replying to a lot of things said in this thread, because a lot of this thread has just been a huge Christian bash. Hopefully I am not bashed for what I post, because these are just my beliefs.
Age of the earth
How old is the earth really? Most scientists believe that it is over 4,5, or even 6 billion years old. How can this be when the bible clearly states it is only around 6 thousand years old? How can there be dinosaurs that are 4 billion years old if the world is only 6 thousand years old? I have a few things to say about this.
Two ideas come from the point of creation itself.
1. When Christ created this world, he made the planet from dust floating around in space. Where did this matter come from? (I am not saying that Christ can not create matter, but this is just one idea.) Would it be unreasonable to think that our world was created from fragments of 4 billion old planets that have already been destroyed? The dinosaurs could have been to those planets as our Lions and Tigers are to this planet.
2. As Troglodyte said, we do not know how long each day was when the earth was being created. It could have been one earth day. It could have been one "Kolob" day, AKA "God Time" (1000 earth years = 1 God day). Or one day could have meant one period in time whose length is unknown or inconsistent from day to day. Dinosaurs could have lived on the planet during a certain point of creation.
Of course, both of those theories could be completely wrong, which is probably a big reason why believing in religion is so hard to do for a lot of people.
Here is another thing to consider. How do we know that the scientists are right about the earth being 4 billion years old? Scientist\'s theories change all the time, and often, they are not right at all. For example, up until a few years ago, it was believed that human brain cells do NOT grow back. This knowledge was widely excepted. Why? Because a "scientist" said so. Then with more recent technology, they discovered that brain cells actually do grow back and the scientists were wrong all along. I do think that scientists know a lot, and discover a lot, but maybe the age of the world is something that they are completely wrong about...
Is the Sun shrinking?
That\'s the first time I\'ve ever heard that theory. I always heard that our sun was just a baby star (compared to a lot of other stars out there) and was going to continue to grow bigger and bigger.
How can one religion be right and all the others be wrong?
I don\'t want to get to deep into this subject for fear of offending someone, but I do want to say that I agree with that general statement. Almost all religions have some truth to them. Most of them (except for the Satanic ones ;)) teach good morals and proper ways of life, etc.
What makes worshiping an idol like the billions of buddhists out there do worse than wearing a cross around your neck?
Ding ding ding. :) I agree with that statement completely.
Sublimesjg,
god created man in hope of making us his perfect children - but yet we arent perfect - if he is so almighty then why did he screw up when he was creating us and if he didnt make us perfect then why does he punish us if we arent trying to be perfect and believe in him
It is possible for us to become perfect though -- through the Atonement and Christ. Christ died for our sins, our sorrows, and our fears. He has already payed the price while he was in the garden of Gatseminie (sp?). He took upon himself those things to make us happy, and to make us able to return to the presence of God again. God\'s ultimate plan is for all of us to return to him some day.
also why are we punished for acting on our free will then - and dont give me that we arent punished - i think being sent to an eternity in hell for not believeing in him is quite the punishment - so why give us free will
That\'s a bigger question than you are making it out to be, and it\'s going to take a big answer. :)
In the premortal life, we were all gathered together in a big meeting. We were told that we were going down to a planet to get our physical bodies. Because our mortal bodies have a capability to sin, God had a plan for us to be able to return to him again. He asked who would fulfill his plan. Christ volunteered to be the one. His plan was what I mentioned above -- the Atonement (Christ dying for our sins). But Lucifer had a better idea. He said that instead of letting us have free agency, he would force us to be good. That way would could all return to God again. Satan\'s plan was completely wrong (I could go into it and tell you all about why his plan was wrong, but I\'m sure you\'re getting tired eyes already).
You are probably thinking that Satan\'s plan would have been the best, because it would guarantee that all of us are going to heaven. To that I\'m going to post a scripture. 2 Nephi, 2:13 (of course from the Book of Mormon, heh ;)) "And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away."
In other words, if there is no sorrow, then there is no joy. We need to experience one to be able to experience the other. That is one reason why Adam and Even had to sin in the garden of Eden. At the state that they were in, they did not know joy or sorrow.
- he didnt ask me hey scott do you want to live on earth - no he didnt - he put me here and if i dont like it then im screwed because i cant kill myself or i go to hell - so well look at that - what kind of free will is that
Actually, he did ask you, and yes you chose to go. In fact, I\'ll bet you were extremely excited to go, because then you were not in the dark; Then you could see the whole picture. You knew the importance of coming down here.
Samwise
What if you died and found out there was ...... nothing. Muahaha, all those church hours for nothing.
Well then there would be nothing and we wouldn\'t even get a chance to say, "Crap, all that church for nothing!" ;)
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I do not wear a cross around my neck. Even if I did, I am not worshipping the cross! THe glod cross is NOT the god, the God behind it is.
People worship idols, the cross is NOT an idol, its a symbol. Wearing a cross doesnt make you a Christain.
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no, but giving the church 20% of yer income does
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Originally posted by mm
no, but giving the church 20% of yer income does
Damn, he got you there, racer.
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Racer,
I do not wear a cross around my neck. Even if I did, I am not worshipping the cross! THe glod cross is NOT the god, the God behind it is.
People worship idols, the cross is NOT an idol, its a symbol. Wearing a cross doesnt make you a Christain.
But Buddhists don\'t worship the statue either. They worship the god that the statue represents. I see no difference here.
MM,
no, but giving the church 20% of yer income does
No it doesn\'t. You could give the church all of your money and you still wouldn\'t be considered a Christian if you haven\'t been baptised yet. Every Christian church that I know of has some form of baptism. That is the key to being part of their church.
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I once asked my pastor about the connection between the big bang thery and the 7 days of creation. He told me that one day to the human race is just a measurement of the sun. But Mostlikely he thought that it took god thousands of years. I didn\'t get it either. maybe someone could clairify that?????
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Originally posted by IronFist
But Buddhists don\'t worship the statue either. They worship the god that the statue represents. I see no difference here.
buddhists don\'t have a god...
I\'m an atheist, I don\'t see why I should base my beleifs on superstitions which are greatly flawed. I don\'t want to offend anyone, but a lot of religious people hold on to beleifs which are thousands of years old and have been shown to have many inconsistencies and flaws. When their beleifs are shot down they make up new theories to support their beleif. When these theorys are shown to be false, a new one is fabricated.
I realise religion is a great comfort to many people, and I hate the idea that there is nothing after death, and there is no supreme god but I cannot bring myself round to beleive in it anymore.
For arguements sake if there was a god, and he was omnipresent, omnipotent and perfect, why would he create humans. Humans are obviously flawed, and even if we have the potential to become perfect, why would something knowingly create something flawed. I makes no sense. If you are to beleive the bible, then "god" was so dissapointed in humans he wiped most of them out (Noah\'s ark). It makes no sense.
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mindspring.com%2F%7Erj2%2Fvid.gif&hash=7a370111db53e1e8152a88888b89fc03d116e7f8)I once had a seven day erection(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mindspring.com%2F%7Erj2%2Fvid.gif&hash=7a370111db53e1e8152a88888b89fc03d116e7f8)
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Originally posted by Videoholic
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mindspring.com%2F%7Erj2%2Fvid.gif&hash=7a370111db53e1e8152a88888b89fc03d116e7f8)I once had a seven day erection(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mindspring.com%2F%7Erj2%2Fvid.gif&hash=7a370111db53e1e8152a88888b89fc03d116e7f8)
Who were you thinking about :eek: ?
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I\'m confused here, so let me address each point one at a time..
- Dinosaurs and man lived together? What the hell are you smoking , Racer? I think it is more than safe to say that if a huge man-eating dinosaur came around, then a village of people are going to get eaten, right? Oh, I forget maybe they was all peace-loving animals who ate veggies all day long (I mean , those big teeth where just for show, anyways)... So, how did Dinosaurs go extinct? The flood? Wasn\'t Noah suppose to bring a male and female of every animal race on the ark, so that the animals could survive? Then again, he may of had a space problem when he was trying to fit that peace-loving T-Rex on the Ark...
- This whole seventh day thing.. Now, God created the world in six days and took rest on the seventh, right? Who is to say God measures days in the same 24 hour format that we do? Weak arguement, yes. It is still valid though. And I hate to bring up the same arguement about how we don\'t know how long a day was back in bibical times, but we don\'t.
- The comments about the Satanic religions should be clarified alittle more. \'The Church of Satan\' was founded by Anton Lavey as more of a religion that supported the idea of survival of the strongest and responsiblity for your own actions. There is no Satan or God. The church was named that simply to piss off the bible toting christains and gain attenion , for it to grow. The general idea behind it is simple, you are responsible for what you do. No evil forces behind it and there is no punishment or reward in the afterlife for it. It also delves deeper into the fact that man in general is a primal animal and if given the chance would more than likely take what he wants by violence or what not, then be civil.
My point? Before you comment on it as being "bad" , I suggest researching it and taking it in as just another religion. Yes, there is "satantic" religions that go all out about sacrifices and what not, but those are just children who are idiots and didn\'t get enough love at home, okay? ;)
- God asked us to go down to earth? I don\'t want to bag on anyone\'s religion - so please don\'t get offended. But...WHEN THE HELL DID THIS HAPPEN? Is this like when I was in my mother\'s womb? Ya\' know, I can\'t remember any of this...I swear, the best times of your life (and pre-life!) are blocked out..GO friggin\' figure.. I\'m sorry, but that whole belief / theory makes as much sense (to me!) as Racer\'s, \'we lived with the peace-loving dinosaurs\'.
- I believe in freedom of religion. I don\'t agree with religion personally, but I can see it can get people through a lot of tought times, due to the fact they believe there is something more than this tedious life. I perosnally and comfortable (or as comfortable as possible) realizing that we are born in this world, we then work and find someone, have sex and produce a child. We then die and the cycle repeats. No afterlife..Just reproduction. Nothing more.
Oh and to add some humor to this topic..Here is a break up line for all you guy\'s who need to get rid of a chick and are athiest...
"I must admit, you brought Religion in my life.
I never believed in Hell until I met you."
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I have no toes.
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woha, just saw this thread.
Took some while to read through it all, was a nice read.
Just for the record, I don\'t belive in any gods or such (god, santa, witches, and other man-made-up creatures).
Originally posted by IronFist
Age of the earth
How old is the earth really? Most scientists believe that it is over 4,5, or even 6 billion years old. How can this be when the bible clearly states it is only around 6 thousand years old? How can there be dinosaurs that are 4 billion years old if the world is only 6 thousand years old? I have a few things to say about this.
[/B]
How could this be... could it be beacuse the bible is a story book written by people that had very little knowledge about the world, life, ....everything?
That\'s my "theory" :)
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Originally posted by Bjorn
How could this be... could it be beacuse the bible is a story book written by people that had very little knowledge about the world, life, ....everything?
That\'s my "theory" :)
And you are the boss so you are correct.. Thank God we don\'t have to hear anymore crap about dinosaurs and man iving together 6500 years ago when the world was created.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
Thank God we don\'t have to hear anymore crap about dinosaurs and man iving together 6500 years ago when the world was created.
LOL, I still can\'t believe that statement was made.
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Actually, the reasons why Chrisitians churches meet together on Sunday is to take the Lord\'s Supper. We are also told in Ephesians to make music in our hearts to God. Add a little sermon in and you have a regular Sunday morning 9am service.
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Why is everyone else allowed to have different opinions and theories except me? Just because mine may be alittle different to yours is no excuse to be rude.
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i think #Racer# might be right, and here are the reasons:
reason #1. On the Flintstones, Dinos and humans lived together. and dinos served a purpous, like garbage disposals, and lawn mowers. then after serving thier purpous they would have a witty comment like "it\'s a living" everyone knows if it was on tv, it must be true.
reason #2. i like potatoes
reason #3. were any of us alive 6500 years ago? no i didn\'t think so, which means none of us know for sure what happend.
reason #4. because #racer# said so
reason #5. because god loves irony (if he made a platapus he has a sence of humor)
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
God asked us to go down to earth? I don\'t want to bag on anyone\'s religion - so please don\'t get offended. But...WHEN THE HELL DID THIS HAPPEN? Is this like when I was in my mother\'s womb? Ya\' know, I can\'t remember any of this...I swear, the best times of your life (and pre-life!) are blocked out..GO friggin\' figure.. I\'m sorry, but that whole belief / theory makes as much sense (to me!) as Racer\'s, \'we lived with the peace-loving dinosaurs\'.
He he, that was an expected response to my statement. :) My church is the only Christian church that believes that there was life before this life (not including the churches that were started by people who agreed with our church, but wanted to add his/her own false elements to it). That is when all of this happened. If you want me to tell you about it, just ask.
I believe in freedom of religion. I don\'t agree with religion personally, but I can see it can get people through a lot of tought times, due to the fact they believe there is something more than this tedious life. I perosnally and comfortable (or as comfortable as possible) realizing that we are born in this world, we then work and find someone, have sex and produce a child. We then die and the cycle repeats. No afterlife..Just reproduction. Nothing more.
So it all just ends? You cease to exist when you die? What is the purpose of this life then? Why even bother? I\'m not trying to discourage you or anything, I\'m just interested in what you believe.
Bjorn:
How could this be... could it be beacuse the bible is a story book written by people that had very little knowledge about the world, life, ....everything?
Yet it has predicted multiple things that have happened in our history, and has predicted the things that are happening to our world right now. They may have not known too much about the world back then, but man, they were great guessers! :)
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OK, the main problem that I am seeing is with my dinosaurs and humans post.
Well here is what I think happened. It is only my opinion, so take it or leave it.
OK, When Noah built the ark, he could only fit some species of dinos on it (such as the smaller ones). I beleive that most dinosaures died out in the flood (that is how they are buried in such low sediments. Most sea dinosaurs survived. Now, after the flood, only a few species of land dinos survived, and they survived for quite some time.
In the book of Job, it mentions a large \'dragon\' like creature. This is probably the only reference to dinos in the Bible. I believe that many of them died out after this because mateing patterns changed due to the fact that there weren\'t many left on the planet (Noah only took two of each animal on the ark) and I imagine that many of these didn\'t reproduce.
Its only my opinion, and I don\'t really care what anyone thinks anymore. I will stand by my views until they are proven wrong.
I respect other peoples opinions, so I think that people like Videoholic should respect mine, even if you do think they are different or strange.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
OK, the main problem that I am seeing is with my dinosaurs and humans post.
Well here is what I think happened. It is only my opinion, so take it or leave it.
OK, When Noah built the ark, he could only fit some species of dinos on it (such as the smaller ones). I beleive that most dinosaures died out in the flood (that is how they are buried in such low sediments. Most sea dinosaurs survived. Now, after the flood, only a few species of land dinos survived, and they survived for quite some time.
In the book of Job, it mentions a large \'dragon\' like creature. This is probably the only reference to dinos in the Bible. I believe that many of them died out after this because mateing patterns changed due to the fact that there weren\'t many left on the planet (Noah only took two of each animal on the ark) and I imagine that many of these didn\'t reproduce.
I respect other peoples opinions, so I think that people like Videoholic should respect mine, even if you do think they are different or strange.
what happend to the plesasaur, or the icthysaur(SP), they were both aquarius dinos, how would they\'ve died in the flood?
Its only my opinion, and I don\'t really care what anyone thinks anymore. I will stand by my views until they are proven wrong.
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Well, who says they still don\'t exsist? I mean, the earths oceans are just so deep, and most underwater areas havent even been explored throughly yet.
I mean, did anyone ever see that picture of the dinosaur that the Japanese fishing boat pulled up back in the early ninties? Now, I am not saying dinos are still alive, but the picture was proven to the accurate and true.
Anyways.
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well see te thing is there were many different types of sea dinos so to speak
if they were around a lot then - and they didnt die away from the flood then they should still be kicking today
also i just dont see how they couldnt fit some of the bigger dinos if they could fit an elephant on the ark
oh well just saying
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
if they were around a lot then - and they didnt die away from the flood then they should still be kicking today
That is a very good point, if they were able to survive what ever happend back then, they should certainly be around today.
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
also i just dont see how they couldnt fit some of the bigger dinos if they could fit an elephant on the ark
oh well just saying
A T-Rex is ALOT larger then an Elephant, but I know what you mean.
Also, the dimensions of the ark which are mentioned in the Bible wouldnt have allowed alot of dino species to get on the ark, cause it wasnt tall enough. I read this in Readers Digest...
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something else I thought about..elephants shouldnt have been around then, only wooly mammoths.
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Originally posted by luckee
something else I thought about..elephants shouldnt have been around then, only wooly mammoths.
But if there was an Ice Age, then all the ice would have melted during the flood.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
A T-Rex is ALOT larger then an Elephant, but I know what you mean.
Also, the dimensions of the ark which are mentioned in the Bible wouldnt have allowed alot of dino species to get on the ark, cause it wasnt tall enough. I read this in Readers Digest...
well the dinos im talking about are not even the large ones like the rex
what about the small egg eaters and other small creatures that were like those and also what about all the insects from that time - i swear when i was a kid i could remember the names of the dinos now i cant remember em at all
just saying there were many species that wouldnt have fit but there were some that would have
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sublime brought up a good point with the insects.
but i also have to wonder how did they fit all the different types of incests of the ark, there are well over 1 million different species of insects, some experts say it\'s more like 10million. also 4000 different species of mammals, 7000 species of reptile, I won\'t mention the birds even though i don\'t imagine many could fly for fourty days, and the fish and amphibians should be able to live in the water.
I have no idea how large the arc was, but it would have to be absolutly gigantic. what about plant life? 99% of land plants can\'t be submerged for 40 days.
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Originally posted by IronFist
So it all just ends? You cease to exist when you die? What is the purpose of this life then? Why even bother?
Yea it all ends :) Purpose of life... to live (I don\'t feel any urge to die) and get children so your family/species will survive. Just look at the animals.
If I thought my life sucked, I would just tell/brainwash myself that I get eternal happines etc when I die. That way I wouldn\'t need to go through all the religious stuff ;)
(well I wouldn\'t do this... but you get the idea)
Originally posted by IronFist
Yet it has predicted multiple things that have happened in our history, and has predicted the things that are happening to our world right now. They may have not known too much about the world back then, but man, they were great guessers! :)
Actually I haven\'t read the bible, so I haven\'t seen these predictions. Well, I read about half of it I think when I was a kid to see what the fuss was all about, thought it was a good story book. But that was a long time ago and I can\'t remember and predictions. In school we also studied all kinds of religions including Christianity, but I still can\'t remember any predicitons :/ Would be great if you could quote some predicitons from the bible, I would love to see them.
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Purpose of life is to reproduce. That\'s it. Nothing glamorous. Our purpose is the same as that of ants, cats, elephants, plants, all living things.
But besides that, we make our own purpose in life, something more "noble" if you will, like happiness.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
I respect other peoples opinions, so I think that people like Videoholic should respect mine, even if you do think they are different or strange.
Um, there is no reason why I should respect your opinion. It makes no sense what so ever.
And by the way, this whole ark thing. No one has brought this up yet. I know the ark was fairly big, but do you realize how large an arc would need to be to handle 2 of everything.
Do we even need to get into this aspect of this wonderful book of STORIES?
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Wanna know what happened with the dinosaurs? I know. There was dinosaurs at one point.. Then God was like hey, these things suck. So he just killed them off. Then he like made us forget everything.. He only gives us hints once in a while.. We have to figure everything out ourself. Know what I\'m saying? If you\'re lost, you\'re lost. God\'s will is for you to be lost. If you\'re found, then you\'re found. It\'s your job to spread God\'s word and stuff like that.
I don\'t know, I really just made up all of that stuff. But really though, I believe that God sent his son to die for us and our sins. If you want to have eternal life, you should live your life serving God. It\'s not really all that hard you know. All you gotta do is like munch on some macaroni and cheese while eating chips at the same time.
Ok, I was lying again. If you want to go to heaven, you have to stick out your tounge and touch your nose. (Hint: Stick out your tounge and touch your nose with a finger).
Ok, that\'s enough. Sorry, I\'m really bored and just wanted to get another post to higher my post count. Go me. :thepimp:
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Just because mine may be alittle different to yours is no excuse to be rude.
this coming from someone who worships mariah carey, AND called me an idiot cause i feel sunday is the last day of the week. you cant ask people to respect yer opinion is its wack
:rolleyes:
perhaps hes just still bitter about the hotornot.com incident
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Originally posted by Videoholic
And by the way, this whole ark thing. No one has brought this up yet. I know the ark was fairly big, but do you realize how large an arc would need to be to handle 2 of everything.
not to mention this was made by one bloke and his sons. The likelihood this little family could feed and support thousands of animals without almost all of them dying is stupid. Also to think the animals (like tigers and hyenas) just walked onto the ark without protest is again fairly strange. The ark itself would have to be more than a mile long I should think.
I respect people who are religious, but people who\'s beleifs are downright stupid are another matter. Dinosaur bones can be carbon dated, the soil it\'s burried in is dated to millions of years old. There is proof that the dinosaurs did not live with man, open your eyes.
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Originally posted by Disc 2
not to mention this was made by one bloke and his sons. The likelihood this little family could feed and support thousands of animals without almost all of them dying is stupid. Also to think the animals (like tigers and hyenas) just walked onto the ark without protest is again fairly strange. The ark itself would have to be more than a mile long I should think.
I respect people who are religious, but people who\'s beleifs are downright stupid are another matter. Dinosaur bones can be carbon dated, the soil it\'s burried in is dated to millions of years old. There is proof that the dinosaurs did not live with man, open your eyes.
You have seen neither dinosaurs nor the Ark Noah built with God\'s help yet you say one is ficticious and the other is true. You consider carbon-dating proof but recorded events by another human false? I do not say whether dinosaurs existed or not b/c it is not mentioned in the Bible and bears no consequence on where I spend my eternity. Yet I do believe in God, the Ark, and the Bible.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
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but the people who wrote those records also had never seen the ark, and were alive hundreds (even thousands) of years later. Noah certainly didn\'t leave any written records.
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Originally posted by Disc 2
but the people who wrote those records also had never seen the ark, and were alive hundreds (even thousands) of years later. Noah certainly didn\'t leave any written records.
Neither did the dinosaurs, what\'s your point?
Prove to me that there was not an ark.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Neither did the dinosaurs, what\'s your point?
Prove to me that there was not an ark.
Um, there are dinosaur bones. Haven\'t seen an arc around lately.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
Um, there are dinosaur bones. Haven\'t seen an arc around lately.
Actually Vid, there is a place in Israel somewhere or some place like that where they have found sonic images (its REALLY buried) in the ground that look like a gigantic ark. They are still looking into it or something.
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I wonder how well you did in school thinking that we lived in the same time as dinosaurs.
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How are dinosuars any different to Sharks or poisonous snakes? I mean, people get killed by sharks and snakes all the time, so naturally, dinosaurs would have killed humans too.
Its not rocket science. I just don\'t see how my opinion is so bogus. No one has given me a VALID reason as to why I am wrong. You just mock me with un intelligent replies, just like Soul Reaver did.
Now I wonder how well YOU did at school.
By the way, I was an A grade student and got an OP 2 (which is in the top 98 percentile).
IE - I did better then 98% of ALL students in Queensland last year (65 000 grade 12\'s got an OP).
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I don\'t believe in any god except for Bjorn
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
How are dinosuars any different to Sharks or poisonous snakes? I mean, people get killed by sharks and snakes all the time, so naturally, dinosaurs would have killed humans too.
Its not rocket science. I just don\'t see how my opinion is so bogus. No one has given me a VALID reason as to why I am wrong. You just mock me with un intelligent replies, just like Soul Reaver did.
Now I wonder how well YOU did at school.
By the way, I was an A grade student and got an OP 2 (which is in the top 98 percentile).
IE - I did better then 98% of ALL students in Queensland last year (65 000 grade 12\'s got an OP).
Maybe I wasn\'t very specific.
When the teachers ask you how the Neanderthals came to be extinct, did you say the dinosaurs ate them? When numerous ships disappeared in the Sargasso sea, did you say that sea dinosaurs ate them thinking that dinosaurs where alive at that time?
Well obviously not since you said that you did better than 98% of the students in your school. :rolleyes:
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You\'d think this would be up there with the largest topic in OT, and it\'s getting up there, but no where near some others.
PS2 Central Coolest Person Awards (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10419)
Mental Image You have of other posters (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10419)
Plane crashes into WTC (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=13918)
The Racer Wrestling in the Shower thread (http://gbg.bonet.se/ivil/you.html)
And the one with the most views, We are all animals!!!! (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11597)
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Neither did the dinosaurs, what\'s your point?
Prove to me that there was not an ark.
thats the stupidest way to argue something i have ever heard
thats like me saying there were aliens all over the earth before us - you cant prove it wrong and you cant prove it right
because there is no proof to send it either way and if there is no proof then there should be no statement about it in the first place - so since theres no proof of an arks existance period then i guess it should have never been written as fact
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Originally posted by Videoholic
You\'d think this would be up there with the largest topic in OT, and it\'s getting up there, but no where near some others.
PS2 Central Coolest Person Awards (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10419)
Mental Image You have of other posters (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10419)
Plane crashes into WTC (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=13918)
The Racer Wrestling in the Shower thread (http://gbg.bonet.se/ivil/you.html)
And the one with the most views, We are all animals!!!! (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11597)
Someone should make another "who\'s the coolest person thread?" They always end up being big.
There are too many religion based big threads. :p
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yea those are always great
maybe ill make one if i get bored enough
everyone loves those anyways
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lamer.net%2Ftodd.gif&hash=6b7cf8bd0126ca884ca2e3c792f727e7b2ff7b96)
hehehehehehehehehehe
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haha, funny luckee!
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Trying to prove that the ark really existed is stupid. And trying to prove if the Bible and other religious books are true is also stupid. I know that I don\'t have nearly enough knowledge to prove either way, and I doubt any other person on these forums has enough scriptural and historical knowledge to do so either. So why is this "Noah\'s Ark" argument still going on? It isn\'t getting anywhere and I think it should be dropped. There is one way for you to know if the Bible (King James version) and the Book of Mormon are true though -- read and pray about them. James 1:5 -- "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." It is as easy as that. Do you want to know if the Ark really existed? Read about it in the Bible (Hint: Genesis ;)), then pray about it. If you have an open heart and an open mind, God will tell you that what you are reading is true.
Bjorn:
There are many things that were revealed to prophets before the actual events took place. For example, the signs of Christ\'s first coming (the birth of Christ), were all revealed to various prophets long before they happened.
But you probably want things that were "predicted" in the Book of Mormon and Bible that we are actually seeing today. Because if you don\'t believe in the BOM and Bible in the first place, all of those things revealed mean nothing to you. Some of the most obvious things revealed in the BOM and Bible are the signs of the Second Coming of Christ. This (http://scriptures.lds.org/morm/8/26-32#26) is from Mormon, chapter 8. (In the Book of Mormon). Go down to verses 26-32 (highlighted in yellow) to see a lot of things that are happening right now, and were revealed to the prophet Mormon back in 401 AD that they would happen now. There are tons of things like that in the Bible and BOM.
But I again stress that you should not look for "proof" in the BOM and Bible that they are real. You should instead read and pray about them and God will reveal to you that they are real through a "burning in your bosom." Don\'t have a Book of Mormon or Bible? I\'m sure that churches around you give them away for free (I know the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints [aka LDS, Mormons] give away free Book of Mormons).
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The point I\'m trying to make can best be summed up from a line in "The Sixth Sense," or maybe was it "Pay it Forward?" Anyways:
"Just because you can\'t see it, doesn\'t mean it isn\'t there."
Science is about hypothesis, and then disproving hypotheses. Nothing is laid in stone, because everything could be disproven any day, of any week, of any year.
Reminants of what could have been the ark have been found. Much of our earth is really difficult to travel, yet alone study.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Much of our earth is really difficult to travel, yet alone study.
Thats what I dont understand, now if we can send rovers to mars and they got around. Many many people on the moon and in space, but yet even on our own planet, there is sooooo much to still be explored. I just don\'t get it.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
"Just because you can\'t see it, doesn\'t mean it isn\'t there."
Science is about hypothesis, and then disproving hypotheses. Nothing is laid in stone, because everything could be disproven any day, of any week, of any year.
Most science is proven and laid in stone.
In the case of hypothesises, there is tons of of research building on other proof etc etc.
Of course there is always room for misstakes though.
Ironfist:
I checked out some of the "predictions" in the Book of Mormon, chapter 8.
Didn\'t found too much exciting stuff, like wars and things like that. Wouldn\'t be very hard to predict such a thing... its almost the same thing as saying that your are going to die someday is a prediction.
There was one interesting thing though:
"Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the earth"
pollutions..... was that word even in peoples vocabulary 2000 years ago (or when that book now was written). I mean, I see it as a pretty modern word.
Or maybe, the stuff I read just was some interpretation by some "learned" guy?
I don\'t give very much for religious interpretation made by religous people, they usually get it to what they think/want. Not very confidence-inspiring to me....
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I checked out some of the "predictions" in the Book of Mormon, chapter 8.
Didn\'t found too much exciting stuff, like wars and things like that. Wouldn\'t be very hard to predict such a thing... its almost the same thing as saying that your are going to die someday is a prediction.
I could go through and try to find more obvious revelations (like somewhere in the Doctrine & Covenants [I think that\'s where it is], there is a revelation of that huge earthquake that happened in California a few decades ago. I don\'t know where it is exactly though [maybe AlteredBeast does ;)]), but I think it would all be in vain. There is one way to know if the BOM and Bible are true which I already stated above, and trying to convince you in other ways would be worthless.
pollutions..... was that word even in peoples vocabulary 2000 years ago (or when that book now was written). I mean, I see it as a pretty modern word.
Or maybe, the stuff I read just was some interpretation by some "learned" guy?[/B]
Yeah, that "learned guy" was Joseph Smith. He translated the Golden Plates (The Book of Mormon) from some old egyption language into English in under 75 days (click me (http://www.meridianmagazine.com/farms/010130bom.html)) in the late 1820s. He also fixed lots of translation problems in the Bible after he translated the Book of Mormon. He is the one who started the LDS church. You may be thinking, "so what?" Here is the shocker -- Joseph Smith only had a 4th grade education. Dun dun dun!
Of course, if you search the web you will find site after site trying to prove how false the Book of Mormon is, or how big of a crock Joseph Smith was (I have been reading some sites, and man are they reaching! ;)), which leads back to my point that trying to show you evidence of the Book of Mormon\'s truth is a waste of time. There will always be another person with "evidence" that the Bible/BOM and stories within are false, and unfortunately millions of people will believe them because of their persuasiveness and often completely false, lie-filled arguments (and the readers’ desires for the Book of Mormon to be false I might add).
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Originally posted by Bjorn
Most science is proven and laid in stone.
I just can\'t agree with you on that. All of my science professors have stressed that nothing is ever 100% proven correct. Nothing can be permanent, because of the onset of the unkonwn. There can always be that day that disproves "proven science."
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
I just can\'t agree with you on that. All of my science professors have stressed that nothing is ever 100% proven correct. Nothing can be permanent, because of the onset of the unkonwn. There can always be that day that disproves "proven science."
yes, but the thing that disproves science will be science
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yes, but the thing that disproves science will be science
Oh really? When Christ comes again, who will be the one who proves that a god existed all along? Science, or Christ himself? :)
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Originally posted by IronFist
Oh really? When Christ comes again, who will be the one who proves that a god existed all along? Science, or Christ himself? :)
I doubt that..but even if he does come..that doesnt prove or disprove anything :) I always thought jesus was a actually human.
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what was this tread about anyway ?
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making fun of #racer#, i thought
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Thats it, I am outta here. I am sick of this crap.
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CYA...
Yeah, I don\'t think anyone is doubting is Jesus is real or not. I think all of us believe the bible is a book of stories about people who really did live. It\'s the God created the earth thing that I don\'t believe.
Just because they put it in a book does not make it true. Those are stories of peoples and how they thought the world was created. They didn\'t know jack about science back then. I would believe in today\'s scientists way before I would believe some dude a couple thousand years ago.
I imagine many people in the 70s taking acid saw a river part now and then.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Thats it, I am outta here. I am sick of this crap.
BYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
remember Jesus loves you, its just that everyone else thinks your a A hole !
hmmmmmm maybe thats a bit too harsh, i mean maybe his Rich Daddy will buy this site of BJorn as revenge for our ##racer## bashing.
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p.s.
i was joking by the way, just in case racer is crying in a corner after all this hate mail.
p.p.s
do you think we can get this thread to 11 pages ?
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lol racer, i was kidding
i didnt even ask you about why u called me an idiot for feeling sunday is the 7th day of the week
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Originally posted by mm
lol racer, i was kidding
i didnt even ask you about why u called me an idiot for feeling sunday is the 7th day of the week
you can say that sunday is the 7th day because according to the bible God created the earth and man ,then and on the 7th day he rested !
so there.
hey have we hit 11 pages yet ?
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I think we all need to take a moment and Ask Jesus (http://www.askjesus.8k.com).
Edit: w00t, I made it to the top of page 11. ;)
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Dman you Sammy !
i was wanting to do it !
:(
;)
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Originally posted by luckee
yes, but the thing that disproves science will be science
Because science is the study of the world around us. The "language" of religion doesn\'t translate well into the "language" of science, that really proves nothing, but you did manage to state the obvious. ;)
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Originally posted by Videoholic
Just because they put it in a book does not make it true. Those are stories of peoples and how they thought the world was created. They didn\'t know jack about science back then. I would believe in today\'s scientists way before I would believe some dude a couple thousand years ago.
Pardon the possible double post, but it\'s easier to quote this way.
Hey vid, did you see that South Park episode about David Blane(sp?)?
Jesus was like "Here\'s a glass of water, ok, now. . . turn around"
. . . (switches iture with one from under the table) . . .
"Tada! It\'s wine!" . . ."Well it worked better on people 2000 years ago"
:laughing:
But serously, I believe that the univers was probably made the way science has predicted, and that God provided that spark of energy for the Big Bang, and then let it go from there.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Pardon the possible double post, but it\'s easier to quote this way.
Hey vid, did you see that South Park episode about David Blane(sp?)?
Jesus was like "Here\'s a glass of water, ok, now. . . turn around"
. . . (switches iture with one from under the table) . . .
"Tada! It\'s wine!" . . ."Well it worked better on people 2000 years ago"
:laughing:
But serously, I believe that the univers was probably made the way science has predicted, and that God provided that spark of energy for the Big Bang, and then let it go from there.
DId I see that South Park????? Does a Bear wipe his ass with a bunny?
Heh, gone two days and this thread is still chugging along.
Wanna double the length? I was just wondering if there was a Satan.
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I don\'t watch southpark often, but of the ones i\'ve seen that was like the funniest episode.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
Wanna double the length? I was just wondering if there was a Satan.
Just to help this thread along, yes, there is a Satan. And he is your evil jealous brother (literally). And no, I don\'t mean your alive older or younger brother, but your non-born spirit brother. ;)
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of course there is a satan, but he isn\'t as powerful as people thinks he is. His power is limited to stealing socks, leaving you with missmatched socks, mutilating cows, fixing the oscars, giving people kankersores, and causing bad hair days.
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Satan is my father.
Ok, he\'s not. But really, I don\'t belive in that either. Satan was created to give a counterweight to God. Without evil there can be no good... Or something. I do belive in David Hasselhoff though!
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I personally believe Satan was invented by man to excuse and explain all the bad things that happen. Just a way to shift the responisiblity around and avoid facing the harsh reality.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
I personally believe Satan was invented by man to excuse and explain all the bad things that happen. Just a way to shift the responisiblity around and avoid facing the harsh reality.
The harsh reality which is...?
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My guess is the harsh reality is that we have no one to blame but ourselves for the many problems the world has.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
My guess is the harsh reality is that we have no one to blame but ourselves for the many problems the world has.
Nah, I blame racer.
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Does that mean racer is Satan?
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I think the world would be better without religion
I am an ANTI religious person
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Originally posted by shockwaves
My guess is the harsh reality is that we have no one to blame but ourselves for the many problems the world has.
Well because all of us have a physical body, we are all more powerful than Satan is. He cannot make or force us to do anything, but he can temp us. People who blame Satan for their problems are partially right, because without Satan there would be no sin or sorrow (and also no happiness), but they are mostly wrong because they do have control over Satan\'s temptations and they have their free agency to do what they want to do.
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by request for mi pal Vid...
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lamer.net%2Fbuddychrist-sucks.jpg&hash=51916693ea754ab6cac9003680061f7cc815ac3f)
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HEY IM POSTING IN THIS THREAD... YIPIIIEEEEEEE.
anyways all i gotta say is... to whoever it was that invented religion...
my hats off to ya buddy cause you really did start some sh!t with that.
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Originally posted by Luke
my hats off to ya buddy cause you really did start some sh!t with that.
You are a freaking genius. The way you cleverly disguise the word sh!t so that all our little young impressionables can\'t figure it out.
And Luckee, THAT PIC ROCKS!!!!!
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here is to being fashionable late!
Seriously, though, whenever Mormons show up, the topics always die out. I guess my explanation for that would be that our religion does not continually contradict itself, history, or science.
IronFist said it in his first post, but let me clear it up for you guys.
Christ (as we believe He created the world under God\'s direction) organized the Earth. That is all it says on the matter. He didn\'t have to create everything from scratch, nor create everything at all.
About the whole 7 day = Saturday or whatever. Does it really matter? Whatever day your church deems the Sabbath is the day you should worship Him on.
Also, religion is not made to be convenient. People who say they are \'x\' Christian religion through and through but only attend church for Christmas and Easter (and maybe a funeral or two), do not have their minds, nor their hearts in the right places. You do NOT worship God when it is convenient for you. We weren\'t sent to the Earth to have fun, although you are free to do that, we were sent as a test almost to see if we were faithful and sacrificed enough to get back to live with our Heavenly Father.
mm and others may say that when you give tithing (10% of all money you earn in my church) you are paying the church to become more rich, etc. Well, in my church we don\'t pay our Bishops (pastors or Ministers in other churches), pianists, missionaries (actually we provide for our own mission), etc.
I didn\'t want to have to do this, but might as well break out my new scriptures:
Isaiah 45:13 - "I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for the price nor reward, saith the Lord of hosts."
This is from the KJV of the Bible (others may not even have that verse in their because...THEY PAY THEIR MINISTRY) Basically the verse says that those who are called by God shall serve the people, but not for money.
Another one that really puzzles me is 1 Corinthians 15: 16, 17 and 29
16 - "For if the dead rise not, then is Christ not raised:"
17 - "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."
29 - "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
these three verses explain that we do baptisms for the dead because the dead can\'t rise for themselves and do it. All people need to be baptized into the true church to return to live in the presence of God in the Celestial Kingdom. For those of you that ae Christians, grab a KJV of the Bible and ask your Minister or Priest what he thinks about those verses, you may get quite an odd answer.
The easiest thing you can do to become Christian and more specifically, to have a true faith in God and the teachings of Christ is to read the Bible with an open mind, read the Book of Mormon with an open mind, then pray on these things. You guys spend enough hours on the internet, just sacrifice an hour a day for a month and you will be able to finish them. Faith comes through sacrifice.
I believe my church to be the only church on the Earth that has a complete fullness of truth. It is the restoration of Christ\'s original church on this Earth. It is led by a Prophet who recieves direct revelation of God just as the prophets of old did. All I do is ask all the religion bashers out there to truly not knock anything until you have learned about them. Some of you guys really like to stretch things to make your points seem more valid. mm saying that some religions think that there were no dinosaurs is a generalization. It makes anyone that is a faithful Christian sound dumb, even though I personally have never heard anyone saying that dinosaurs didn\'t exist, that personally to me soudns retarded.
Learn about religions from those respected religions. Don\'t go to a Nazi website to learn about Jews, an anti-mormon website to learn about mormons, etc.
ALL I CHALLENGE YOU BOYS AND GIRLS TO DO IS READ THE SCRIPTURES. I tell you what, read the Book of Mormon (it is shorter than the Bible) with an open mind, that is all I ask. You have read longer books in school than that.
thank you for reading,
Eric Jacob
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SWEET!
Someone else from Nebraska, not bad at all....though I didn\'t care to read all of that topic, I gave up on this topic a LONG time ago, like at Page 5...just not worth it anymore :)
See Yuz.
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Yea..I got a scripture quote too
Ezekiel 25:17
The path of a righteous man is beset on all sides, by the inequities
of the selfish , and the tyranny of evil men. blessed are those who in the
name of charity and goodwill , shepherd the weak through the walley of
darkness , for he is truly his brothers keeper and finder of lost children.
and i will strike down upon thee whit great vengeance and furies anger
those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will
know my name is the Lord , when i lay my vengeance upon thee.
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Let me tell ya Altered, I never tire of your relentless bashing of different translations of the Bible. To be so closed minded as to not even accept the same sciptures, and then to also accuse mischevious acts of the translators without proof.
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I quote the book of Fastionos!
Fastson 18:89
"You shall not believe in any religion! The evil priests of “god” are evil and try to steal your money so they can buy fancy cars and expensive “call girls”!
Don’t praise the lord!!"
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Seriously, though, whenever Mormons show up, the topics always die out. I guess my explanation for that would be that our religion does not continually contradict itself, history, or science.
Yet people all over the internet right now, and people ever since the late 1820s when our church was reestablished on the earth still try to prove that the Book of Mormon is false, and try to prove it was actually written by Joseph Smith instead of translated by Joseph Smith. I was actually surprised at how many sites that are out there and how many books have been written that claim they have proof that the BOM is false. Their complaints about the falseness of the BOM range from "Joseph Smith took and altered the names from the Bible to make up the 175+ names in the Book of Mormon" (check out this page (http://www.lds-mormon.com/names.shtml) where it goes through every name and possible names that Joseph could have got them from), to "Joseph Smith plagiarized the Bible as well as other books written at the time to make the Book of Mormon."
Of course all of these attacks have been refuted by people who believe in the Book of Mormon. And as time goes on and more things are discovered in this world, the evidence of the Book of Mormon being true increases. For example:
The Book of Mormon introduces roughly 200 new names not found in the Bible. Many of these have been found to have genuine Semitic parallels in ancient times. Take, for example, the name Alma. Alma was the name of two male prophets in the Book of Mormon (a father and a son). This name has been one of the most commonly attacked features of the Book of Mormon, for Alma is a female Latin name. Critics have assumed that Joseph simply borrowed Alma from the term "alma mater," ignorant of its gender. The Tanner\'s suggest that Joseph borrowed it from the name Shalmaneser in the Old Testament. As usual, they overlook an important fact that has been discussed in LDS writings for decades. In 1961, a prominent scholar in Israel, Professor Yigael Yadin, discovered an ancient document that proved to be a land deed from the time of the Bar Kokhba rebellion in Palestine, placing it in the general era of Lehi and Nephi. Prof. Yadin translated one of the names as "Alma the son of Judah."(See Bar Kokhba by Yigael Yadin, Random House, New York, 1971, p. 176; and Nibley, The Prophetic Book of Mormon, pp. 281-82.) Alma proves to not only be a genuine Semitic name, but is a name of a Hebraic man. Finding the male name Alma in a record about descendants of 6th century B.C. Hebrews now must be viewed not as a reason for mocking the Book of Mormon, but as a reason to take it seriously, in spite of the Tanners and other professional critics.
Here is a great site for those interested that responds to a lot of attacks on the Book of Mormon (this is where that quote was taken from), and as Bjorn wanted, evidence that we have today that shows that the Book of Mormon is true: (very interesting read) http://www.jefflindsay.com/BMEvidences.shtml
And here is a FAQ that have responces to a lot of the things the Book of Mormon is attacked for: http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_BMProblems.shtml
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What? Book of Morons?
Wow.. Where can I find it?
*looks up: Bobs_Hardware*
Extremely rare moron. He is believed to live out on a desert island trying to convert people into the religion he calls "Morons". He is addicted to male genitals, some people believe that he eat them.
ugh..
Not my type of book.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Let me tell ya Altered, I never tire of your relentless bashing of different translations of the Bible. To be so closed minded as to not even accept the same sciptures, and then to also accuse mischevious acts of the translators without proof.
It isn\'t closed mindedness at all. We know what we have without a shadow of a doubt. We know who we are, where we came from, and where we are going next. We can (for the most part) see the "whole picture." To us, all other religions are in the dark and are lacking many key elements to salvation (I\'m sorry if I\'m sounding harsh. Just remember that this is what I believe, and you don\'t have to believe any of it). Believing in the falsely translated Bibles is something that I will not do (I\'ll let Altered speak for himself on that one, but I\'m sure he\'ll say the same thing), because I already know the full truth, and part of that truth is the knowledge that those bibles are not completely true.
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well....
I think that in due time science will come up with enough edvidence that will make religion obsolete. (For my part there is already enough scientific edvidence so that to belive in any god/religion seem very ignorant and unlogic to me).
I don\'t blame children that are being brainwashed with this crap cause children don\'t demand proof or edvidence of what their elders teach them. I can just hope that when they grow up and get educated they will realise it\'s all just stories created by man, in lack of two thousand years of knowledge.
They will then realise that praying doesn\'t make any difference only action does.
At that time one idiotic religious guy can\'t get thousand of others religious idiots to commit murder/suicide/fly an airplane into a building etc.
At that time they won\'t be able to blame "satan" for something they did, only themselves and must then face the consequences.
At that time they won\'t be able to use religion to start/support wars and other conflicts.
Of course I don\'t say that all religious people are "bad", far from it since most are good.
But you should be able to feel compassion and help other less fortunate people without religious goals, thinking it will help your way to "heaven".
I\'ll probably get flamed for this post. Hopefully not as severe as the people who once said the world was round, not flat and that the earth not was the center of this solar system.
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barely 300 years ago, they thought the earth was flat and that you would sail right off the edge
humans were so stupid
us primates knew better
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Originally posted by IronFist
Believing in the falsely translated Bibles is something that I will not do (I\'ll let Altered speak for himself on that one, but I\'m sure he\'ll say the same thing), because I already know the full truth, and part of that truth is the knowledge that those bibles are not completely true.
How can you be so certain that the KJV is such a perfect translation? How come you can\'t comprehend that as time progresses, scholars find errors in previous translations, and newer translations may, in fact, be more accurate. The messages are unchanged from the KJV, but as the English language changes translations need to be updated so that a better understanding can come to those who read it. I own a KJV, NIV, and Living Version Bibles, when I study, I reference verses from each book. I\'ve yet to come across a verse that is in one Bible that is not in another. The only changes are in the language in which we speak. Believing that the KJV is superior to any other versison is just like believing that the English KJV is superior to the Spanish KJV.
UPDATE: as soon as I posted this I came also to this thoght:
The Bibles are the same in message.
Different denominations have different "standard" translations, to make worship more practical.
The denominations interpret the verses differently.
So it\'s not that the different versions say different thingd, but that the dominant denominations of each version translate the message differently.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
How can you be so certain that the KJV is such a perfect translation? How come you can\'t comprehend that as time progresses, scholars find errors in previous translations, and newer translations may, in fact, be more accurate.
I am not saying that the regular KJV version of the Bible is perfect. I\'m saying that the Mormon KJV is. It has been retranslated by Joseph Smith back in the 1830s through the power of God and the big translation errors were fixed. That is why the Mormon KJV is the only Bible that says there are three degrees of heaven, not just Heaven and Hell like all other Bibles believe. The other versions of the bible may be almost identical to each other, but all of them are lacking important key elements that had been lost in translation throughout the centuries.
The messages are unchanged from the KJV, but as the English language changes translations need to be updated so that a better understanding can come to those who read it.
I personally don\'t believe that our language will change enough to warrant a retranslation of some words before Christ comes again. So worrying about "what about in 100 years when our language is slightly different" is a worthless thing to worry about.
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Originally posted by IronFist
I personally don\'t believe that our language will change enough to warrant a retranslation of some words before Christ comes again. So worrying about "what about in 100 years when our language is slightly different" is a worthless thing to worry about.
Modern English has changed quite signifigantly. Two ways of indicitive changes can be found in simply the numbers of editions of Webster\'s dictionary, and even comparing the general language used in an 80\'s tv program to its equialent today.
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Originally posted by IronFist
I personally don\'t believe that our language will change enough to warrant a retranslation of some words before Christ comes again. So worrying about "what about in 100 years when our language is slightly different" is a worthless thing to worry about.
So Christ is coming back? Where do you think he will visit first? And could you imagine the wars and the chaos if Christ really came back.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
So Christ is coming back? Where do you think he will visit first? And could you imagine the wars and the chaos if Christ really came back.
Have you seen the movie "Left Behind?" It\'s kinda crappy, but it gets the general idea about what Christianity preaches what will happen when Christ returns.
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Originally posted by Clyde
barely 300 years ago, they thought the earth was flat and that you would sail right off the edge
humans were so stupid
us primates knew better
Yeah Ye olde Trrowing poop around is much more better.
;)
:p
P.S
are we at 13 pages yet
P.P.S.
This IS Spam :p
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Originally posted by Bjorn
well....
I think that in due time science will come up with enough edvidence that will make religion obsolete. (For my part there is already enough scientific edvidence so that to belive in any god/religion seem very ignorant and unlogic to me).
I don\'t blame children that are being brainwashed with this crap cause children don\'t demand proof or edvidence of what their elders teach them. I can just hope that when they grow up and get educated they will realise it\'s all just stories created by man, in lack of two thousand years of knowledge.
They will then realise that praying doesn\'t make any difference only action does.
At that time one idiotic religious guy can\'t get thousand of others religious idiots to commit murder/suicide/fly an airplane into a building etc.
At that time they won\'t be able to blame "satan" for something they did, only themselves and must then face the consequences.
At that time they won\'t be able to use religion to start/support wars and other conflicts.
Of course I don\'t say that all religious people are "bad", far from it since most are good.
But you should be able to feel compassion and help other less fortunate people without religious goals, thinking it will help your way to "heaven".
I\'ll probably get flamed for this post. Hopefully not as severe as the people who once said the world was round, not flat and that the earth not was the center of this solar system.
thats the most intelligent thing I\'ve heard in this thread.
Religion teaches some valuable lessons, and I see the good in that that, but so much bad has come because of it. People who are basically the same religion fight over who\'s translation of the holy book is more correct ie. in northern ireland where the catholics and protestants have been fighting for years. Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God anyway.
What makes any of you think your religion is the right one? If you had been born in a different family or country, would you still be the same religion. If there was really a God, he would do something to stop all the confusion and war, and put an end to this crap. He hasn\'t, and therefore he doesn\'t exist.
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Oh dear GOD will this Thread ever end ?
i predict by the end of next week there will be no room for the other Forums , never mind other threads ;)
:p
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Originally posted by Videoholic
So Christ is coming back? Where do you think he will visit first? And could you imagine the wars and the chaos if Christ really came back.
He will first come down to Israel (is that the right place? AlteredBeast? Troglodyte? Well, it\'s somewhere over in that area :)) It will happen after a huge war, bigger than any other war in the history of our world. Billions of people will die. It will take (if I recall correctly) 6 years to clean up the bodies. I personally think that it will be when the billion Muslums come down into that area to try to put an end to that war over the land, but I could be completely wrong about that.
Troglodyte,
Modern English has changed quite signifigantly. Two ways of indicitive changes can be found in simply the numbers of editions of Webster\'s dictionary, and even comparing the general language used in an 80\'s tv program to its equialent today.
Even though a lot of the words from the 80s and 70s aren\'t used any more, quite a few of them are still widely know. And for the words that are not known anymore, that\'s what a dictionary is for. :) So if there ever is a questionable word that you can\'t understand in the Bible, just look it up. This hasn\'t happened to me yet though, so I think the Mormon KJV (with the Joseph Smith translation on some of the words) is still very understandable even today (except for some of the metaphorical areas, like Revelations. Even with the Joseph Smith Translation, some of that is still too deep for me. :))
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Hmmm i have done some reserch and found that this is NOT the longest thread in OT
it is (well for the now anyhoo)
Title
We are animals just like every one else on this planet!
17 pages Long
By Bossieman
With 413 replys
and 2348 Views
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Originally posted by ooseven
Hmmm i have done some reserch and found that this is NOT the longest thread in OT
it is (well for the now anyhoo)
Title
We are animals just like every one else on this planet!
17 pages Long
By Bossieman
With 413 replys
and 2348 Views
Spammer!
Vid has already pointed that out! :p
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I basically agree with what Bjorn said. My view is that religion is little more than superstition that people use to explain what they don\'t want to accept, such as what happens after death, and why there is evil in the world.
And if you want a long topic, back at the n64cc forums, we got one to like over 30 pages. That was in the days when there were few regular posters left too. The topic: Word Association.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
I basically agree with what Bjorn said. My view is that religion is little more than superstition that people use to explain what they don\'t want to accept, such as what happens after death, and why there is evil in the world.
Not necesarrily what they don\'t want to accept, but what they can\'t explain.
Science and Religion both try to offer explinations about the world around us. Religion relies on faith, something that science puts to little use. Science is limited by the instuments it uses (i.e. technology). As time progresses, scince can offer explinations for more about the world around us. Scientific thought has drowned out the Greeks belief that Zeus causes lightning, etc. In time, science will be able to explain more, but to most people, faith creates an ease of order in the chaos that science is trying to piece together. At this point science can\'t explain the requirement for some form of eternal entity to keep the cycle of the univers going. Someday science might actually prove and existance for God. Humans are known to be stubborn when science tries to disprove faith. Time will produce true answers to our questions, until then, I rely on my faith.
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My personal opinion is that people who place so much faith into X religion are weak willed individuals who need some type of *crutch* to get through life.
Like after sept.11th., All I would here is "In god we trust" , well, sorry to say but, trust in god..any god..isnt going to eliminate terrorist threats. My trust is in what I see with my own eyes, do with my own hands, and hear with my own ears. That is all the proof I need for anything.
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well said luckee, i hate those people that go though life, never trying to achieve anything because if God wanted them to be succesfull, then God will provide them with that success. Instead of going out and busting ass, they just sit around waiting for it to be handed to them, and if they don\'t get is, then it\'s because God didn\'t want them to be successful, or whatever the desired thing is.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Not necesarrily what they don\'t want to accept, but what they can\'t explain.
I thought about wording it that way. Perhaps it is a little of each. It is taking what you can\'t explain, and putting a twist on it that seems to give you more hope and purpose.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
I thought about wording it that way. Perhaps it is a little of each. It is taking what you can\'t explain, and putting a twist on it that seems to give you more hope and purpose.
Ok, but why not create your own hope and purpose instead of what the *church* tells you your purpose should be.
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I think people should. I was just saying what religion seems to be to me, not that I agree with it...or something like that.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
I think people should. I was just saying what religion seems to be to me, not that I agree with it...or something like that.
Oh, ok..I\'ve lost track of the *churchies* and the *no-faiths* in this thread :D
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Bjorn:
I think that in due time science will come up with enough edvidence that will make religion obsolete.
I think it will do just the opposite. As more things are discovered, things will point more and more towards there being a god. We won\'t know for sure which way science goes (towards or away form religion) until it actually happens though.
(For my part there is already enough scientific edvidence so that to belive in any god/religion seem very ignorant and unlogic to me).
It isn\'t wise to point the "ignorant stick" when you yourself haven\'t even read the bible. How can one say that that science has disproved something, when they don\'t even know what that "something" is?
But anyways, if you don\'t mind would you tell us why believing in God or religion is ignorant? What do you know scientifically that makes religion so false in your mind? (This ought to get the thread rolling ;))
They will then realise that praying doesn\'t make any difference only action does.
The LDS church believes strongly in not being idle. We also believe that we should have a prayer in our heart always. Prayer can do some powerful things that actions alone could never do. As long as we are trying our best, and we have a prayer in our hearts, God will help us to reach our goals. Prayer can heal, comfort, and help in more ways than I could list, but it is worthless without actions.
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such ignorance in this thread. All we are taught in school is science, the idea of creationism isn\'t even allowed anymore. We have the FAITH to believe in something that we have been taught otherwise our whole lives and you guys call US ignorant?
All I ask is to read the Book of Mormon, start to finish with an open mind. I have learned the science point of view my whole life, now I am challenging you.
Good Luck.
Eric Jacob
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Pft, read the book of Mormon with an open mind? Easy for you to say, considering all you\'ve done is keep a closed mind about other religions/scinces because you believe Mormonism to be the ultimate truth.
And as clarification, not all use religion as a crutch, but simply as an explination for the way things are and how to go about living life. Guidelines, not statues.
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how do you know that I have been Mormon my whole life?
Making assumptions, eh?
Read the book!
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
how do you know that I have been Mormon my whole life?
Making assumptions, eh?
Read the book!
Eric Jacob
I have, what, now you\'re making assumptions. Oh, and I was discussing this whole KJV thing with one of my Mormon friends, she says that it\'s nothing more than a preference. Not necesarilly that the KJV is any better/more accurate than any other version.
UPDATE: My point was that no matter how much you\'ve changed your mind in the past, and now you\'re set on what you have now, shouldn\'t mean that you should be so sure you\'ve gained any ultimate truth. To err is human.
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How long has your friend been LDS? Because We believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly. The perfect translation of the Bible is found in the LDS KJV Bible.
It is not a preference thing. We don\'t use different versions of the Bible to convey a point just because that version has what we are talking about. We ONLY use the KJV version.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
How long has your friend been LDS? Because We believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly. The perfect translation of the Bible is found in the LDS KJV Bible.
It is not a preference thing. We don\'t use different versions of the Bible to convey a point just because that version has what we are talking about. We ONLY use the KJV version.
Eric Jacob
I really would like to close this whole translation thing. We\'ll just have to disagree on this, but I have one last thought:
There is no perfect translation. The original text is in its truest form, and any translation at all will create error.
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A translation inspired and directed by God would be perfect, wouldn\'t it?
And that is what we believe we have in the LDS KJV Bible.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
A translation inspired and directed by God would be perfect, wouldn\'t it?
And that is what we believe we have in the LDS KJV Bible.
Eric Jacob
Well, you got me there. Or maybe it\'s just because it\'s 3 hours past my bedtime. Don\'t get me wrong, I still don\'t agree with you, but now I finally understand why you\'re so stuck in the LDS KJV.
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Troglodyte, you are obviously a very smart person when it comes to religion. You have read all three main versions of the Bible, and are open minded about each of the books. My point is if you are so open minded, why don\'t you at least give the Book of Mormon a chance. I am also challanging you to read the Book of Mormon. Nothing we could ever say would prove to you that it is true. It is something you have to find out by reading it for yourself. Here is a promise that Moroni gave us in the last chapter of the Book of Mormon:
Moroni, 10: 4 - And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 - And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
You can get a free copy of the Book of Mormon by calling up the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (look in your phone book), and asking them to send a missionary over to give you a BOM, or asking them for the number to call to get a free BOM sent to you in the mail. Either way, it is as easy as one or two phone calls to get a free Book of Mormon, and I promise you from the bottom of my heart, it will be well worth it.
Maybe then, and only then, you will understand the "stubbornness" (as the anti-mormons like to call it) of us Mormons.
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Originally posted by IronFist
You can get a free copy of the Book of Mormon by calling up the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (look in your phone book), and asking them to send a missionary over to give you a BOM, or asking them for the number to call to get a free BOM sent to you in the mail.
Teehee, now I get flashbacks to the movie Orgazmo. :)
PS. Sorry about ruining your religious thread. But most people already know how I feel - and Björn put it perfectly.
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Originally posted by Samwise
Teehee, now I get flashbacks to the movie Orgazmo. :)
PS. Sorry about ruining your religious thread. But most people already know how I feel - and Björn put it perfectly.
I was waiting for someone to bring that up! That has to be one of the worst movies ever made.
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I flipped through the book of Mormon. It was the weirdest thing I ever read. There are supposedly different prophets but they all write the exact same. They all start with the same words. I also heard from my social studies teacher that the Mormons believed that Jesus came to the people that used human sacrifice to the sun.
I\'ve been wondering this for a while. If there is only one god, then how are there so many different religions? A lot of them are based around God like Islam (Allah=another name for God). I heard in 7th grade from my teacher that there are 100 different names for God. There are also a lot of religions that are polytheism (many Gods). Also, if God created the earth and made humans on day 7, how are there dinosaurs and all of those other organisms they found? This is why I don\'t believe in a good deal of the Old Testament. It\'s not really credible. They to me are just stories.
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i think because we are americans....we should be able to pray in the comfort of our own home....we were given that right to do so ....i think alot of "christians" don\'t have a right to tell ANYONE they SHOULD go to church or your going to hell if you don\'t????? i thought you guys were supposed to be like spiritually people and ****....so why don\'t you let us live our lives the way god intended.. not matter what you do...god loves each and every one of us he dosn\'t pick "faviorites" if all the people in this forum don\'t go to church....and like only two of oyu are hard core about god....YOU ARE NOT SPEICAL >>>>>YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN US..... you know you\'ve lied and stolen and go ddidn\'t STRIKE YOU DOWN.... im sorry if i offend anyone but religion is a very sensitive subject now than it every has been, and we should really be carefull who we talk to about religon b/c those muhammads might get mad!!!!!!
peace..
STOP THE OPRESSION!!!!
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Originally posted by Titan
I flipped through the book of Mormon. It was the weirdest thing I ever read. There are supposedly different prophets but they all write the exact same. They all start with the same words. I also heard from my social studies teacher that the Mormons believed that Jesus came to the people that used human sacrifice to the sun.
I\'ve been wondering this for a while. If there is only one god, then how are there so many different religions? A lot of them are based around God like Islam (Allah=another name for God). I heard in 7th grade from my teacher that there are 100 different names for God. There are also a lot of religions that are polytheism (many Gods). Also, if God created the earth and made humans on day 7, how are there dinosaurs and all of those other organisms they found? This is why I don\'t believe in a good deal of the Old Testament. It\'s not really credible. They to me are just stories.
A lot of those questions I already gave theories for in previous pages. But I just want to comment that you would be a great anti-Mormon. Just post that BS in a website and watch as thousands of people believe every word of it. :rolleyes:
DD22,
i think because we are americans....we should be able to pray in the comfort of our own home....we were given that right to do so ....i think alot of "christians" don\'t have a right to tell ANYONE they SHOULD go to church or your going to hell if you don\'t????? i thought you guys were supposed to be like spiritually people and ****....so why don\'t you let us live our lives the way god intended.. not matter what you do...god loves each and every one of us he dosn\'t pick "faviorites" if all the people in this forum don\'t go to church....and like only two of oyu are hard core about god....YOU ARE NOT SPEICAL >>>>>YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN US..... you know you\'ve lied and stolen and go ddidn\'t STRIKE YOU DOWN.... im sorry if i offend anyone but religion is a very sensitive subject now than it every has been, and we should really be carefull who we talk to about religon b/c those muhammads might get mad!!!!!!
peace..
STOP THE OPRESSION!!!!
Woh woh woh, nobodies talking favorites here. God does love all of us equally. I mean, to God the most evil and the best are only a tiny bit different.
God
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Best human on earth save Jesus Christ himself
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Killers, Adulterers, etc.
We really aren\'t that different in God\'s eyes, but he does know who is fighting for his plan and who is fighting against it; who is being good and who is being bad. Even though he loves us all the same, some of us will go to heaven and some of us will go to "Hell."
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Originally posted by luckee
Chruch on sundays is a evil plan by women to make men go to hell. Ever notice that football games and lots of other kinds of races are on sundays.
I read that in another forum..but it is sooo true :D
I am going to create the Church of Sports. There will be a huge monitor wall in back of the alter so we don\'t offend anyone. We\'ll show all sports.
I\'m thinking about serving beer and sandwhiches to. Ooo, maybe for communion.. Yeah, this will be great...
We will put a keg up front for the people to come up and accept the beer. This will be symbolic of the blood of Jesus. then we will give out hoagies.
You have to give at least 3 bucks though in the baseball cap we pass around though in order to get a cup.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
I am going to create the Church of Sports. There will be a huge monitor wall in back of the alter so we don\'t offend anyone. We\'ll show all sports.
I\'m thinking about serving beer and sandwhiches to. Ooo, maybe for communion.. Yeah, this will be great...
We will put a keg up front for the people to come up and accept the beer. This will be symbolic of the blood of Jesus. then we will give out hoagies.
You have to give at least 3 bucks though in the baseball cap we pass around though in order to get a cup.
as long as it doesnt put a caddy in your driveway..Im in :D
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Church of Sports, huh?
...will you show Husker football games?
If so, you can count me in :D
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by ROL Jamas
Church of Sports, huh?
...will you show Husker football games?
If so, you can count me in :D
See Yuz.
Hell no. Ever since 96 when you kicked Florida\'s ass in the Fiesta Bowl I have pure hatred for the color Red. Sorry. Unless of course you pay extra.
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Haha!
Ohh yeah, nearly forgot about Tommie Frazier running all over your ass :)
Gotta admit though, Nebraska was the better team that year, besides, didn\'t Florida win it the next year?
And yeah *hands Video an extra 50 bucks*
See Yuz.
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OK, you\'re in.
Yeah, Florida won it the next year in the Sugar Bowl against Fl State. I was there, WOO HOO!!!!
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Oh yeah, that blowout game where Wurefull passed all over FSU\'s defense...
That game shouldn\'t have even happened anyway, it should have been someone else besides FSU, since FSU\'s last game before that WAS Florida. Meh, oh well, in the past...if Nebraska doesn\'t lose to Texas in the Big XII Championship, they\'re in that game...no 3 Peat for the Huskers :(
See Yuz.
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Nebraska sucks...heha.
They shouldn\'t have played in the Rose Bowl this year. Go Duckies.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
I was waiting for someone to bring that up! That has to be one of the worst movies ever made.
oh cmon man!
los naked mariachi?
man i got so many sound clips from orgazmo on my computer.
trey parker is genious!
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Originally posted by Luke
trey parker is genious!
I second that. In fact he might, just might, be Christ in disguise.
Well, prove me wrong then. :p
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This coming from the man who thinks \'genius\' is spelled with an \'o\'. :p
Everyone has told me that it is hilarious, but that is what they said about Baseketball and that movie was terrible.
Eric Jacob
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Ironfist:
A lot of those questions I already gave theories for in previous pages. But I just want to comment that you would be a great anti-Mormon. Just post that BS in a website and watch as thousands of people believe every word of it.
You don\'t seriously think that I\'m going to go back 12 other pages to see if someone posted a similar opinion, do you? I don\'t have that kind of time. Anti-mormon? Me? I\'m friends with some mormons but IMO, I\'ve seen in books that show that their religion can be a bunch of BS. Any religions can be proved to be BS if it is really looked at.
Christianity/Judism: They said the earth was about 5000 years old. Lamarck proved it to be 4 billion years old. Religion came up with some excuse. Humans came from Adam and Eve even though there is strong evidence for evolution. Dinosaur fossils were found that were over 64 million years old. Tried to come up with some excuse there. These are reasons that I think the Old Testament is quite questionable
NOTE: I\'m Catholic so if anyone out there who\'s Christian/catholic/jewish/ect, don\'t be pissed at me.
NOTE II: Just a little something to add (nothing to do with this). In the medieval times, I would be burned for saying my opinions. Fundamentalists would beat me with large sticks for saying my opinions (read Inherit the Wind). Just a bit of info you might find interesting. Actually, most people on these boards would be beaten or killed or some kind of harm for what we\'re saying about religion.
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Originally posted by Titan
Anti-mormon? Me? I\'m friends with some mormons but IMO, I\'ve seen in books that show that their religion can be a bunch of BS.
No no, I\'m not saying you are an anti-Mormon. I\'m saying that those things you said above are the same kinds of things that you will see all over the internet on anti-Mormon sites. Those things your social studies teacher said were completely false. I don\'t even think teachers are allowed to talk about religion at all in school, let alone make up rumors and lies about other religions.
And yes, there are tons of books out there about the "black holes" in the Book of Mormon, but whether it\'s on purpose or just a lack of understanding on their part, all of those books ignore crucial details. Every argument that has been used against the BOM has been refuted, and when they are refuted, the anti-Mormons go onto another thing that they don\'t fully understand to bash the BOM for.
Any religions can be proved to be BS if it is really looked at.
People have tried to prove that the BOM is false for almost 200 years, and they have all failed. The Book of Mormon cannot be proven false. It is impossible.
NOTE II: Just a little something to add (nothing to do with this). In the medieval times, I would be burned for saying my opinions. Fundamentalists would beat me with large sticks for saying my opinions (read Inherit the Wind). Just a bit of info you might find interesting. Actually, most people on these boards would be beaten or killed or some kind of harm for what we\'re saying about religion.
This is what my church believes: This is exactly why god waited until the 1820s to bring his church back onto the earth. He had to wait for a country that allowed freedom of religion so his church could prosper and grow quickly. There were still some hard times for the Mormons in the early days of our church (we were forced from place to place, and eventually got to Utah where we were left alone), but our church still did a lot better than if the USA didn\'t allow freedom of religion.
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Those things your social studies teacher said was completely false. I don\'t even think teachers are allowed to talk about religion at all in school, let alone make up rumors and lies about other religions.
I don\'t recall ever bringing my social studies teacher into this. And he does teach us different religions CONCEPTS only because my class is called world cultures and we need to know the background on various religions to actually understand their customs.
What religion are you by the way?
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Originally posted by Titan
I don\'t recall ever bringing my social studies teacher into this.
Oh no? What is this then? "I also heard from my social studies teacher that the Mormons believed that Jesus came to the people that used human sacrifice to the sun."
And he does teach us different religions CONCEPTS only because my class is called world cultures and we need to know the background on various religions to actually understand their customs.
Well if that is what your teacher is teaching about the Mormons, then he is teaching you wrong. Did you just got the Mormons mixed up with other religions, or is that really what your teacher said?
What religion are you by the way?
Isn\'t it obvious? LDS of course (also known as Mormon).
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Well if that is what your teacher is teaching about the Mormons
Nothing. We are not learning about US religions. We are learning about Muslims (now I know why they are so fanatical), Hindus, Sikhs, Parsian, Buddists.
I figured you were mormon. And about what I said I learned from my teacher, it was something like that. They were saying that Jesus came to some tribe that did human sacrifice (somewhere in my notes) and said to stop. Not sure if that was true or not. Just saying.
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Originally posted by Titan
Nothing. We are not learning about US religions. We are learning about Muslims (now I know why they are so fanatical), Hindus, Sikhs, Parsian, Buddists.
I figured you were mormon. And about what I said I learned from my teacher, it was something like that. They were saying that Jesus came to some tribe that did human sacrifice (somewhere in my notes) and said to stop. Not sure if that was true or not. Just saying.
Buddhist fanatical???? how do u deffine fanatical? Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a theology, and they r far from fanatical, never has a war been waged by a Buddhist, their entire philosophy is based on love, and against violence.
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Originally posted by theomen
Buddhist fanatical???? how do u deffine fanatical? Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a theology, and they r far from fanatical, never has a war been waged by a Buddhist, their entire philosophy is based on love, and against violence.
I didn\'t say Buddhists were fanatical. I said that now I know why this group of Muslims are fanatical. The Shi\'ites are the fanatical muslims and the ones us Americans are fighting.
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Titan, your last 3 or 4 posts are a summation of all the ignorance of every anti-mormon site on the net. Basically, anything you hear about our church by a n0n-member will be false or have a negative overtone to it.
People act like we are strange and our practices are far out. Go to Barnes and Noble and read some of their "General" religion books, they won\'t mention our church, and if they do, it will be grossly inaccurate or very negative. You have also shown how every anti-mormon acts when we explain when they are wrong.
"I don\'t recall bringing my social studies teacher into this", Iron showed you otherwise and you didn\'t even acknowledge it, you just moved on, which is what they all do, move on to the next thing. And everytime we disprove some idiot, another 8 pop up, it is like some sort of Whack-an-Idiot game.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
"I don\'t recall bringing my social studies teacher into this", Iron showed you otherwise and you didn\'t even acknowledge it, you just moved on, which is what they all do, move on to the next thing. And everytime we disprove some idiot, another 8 pop up, it is like some sort of Whack-an-Idiot game.
Eric Jacob
I did achnoledge it. Read my posts.
Prove that your religion is true with some hard core facts and I\'ll shut up.
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This thread is big now. Religon vs science. The history have proven that science sooner or later always proves religion wrong (not everything yet but sooner or later science will). If we could go back in time and have this discussion thing would look pretty funny. The relgious people claiming that the earth is flat and the science people claiming that the world is round. Religious people would claim that the earth is in the center of the universe and the science people saying that the earth is just another planet rotating around the sun.
Look at this thread. The year is 2002 and the religious people are claiming that the earth is just a couple of thousend years old, that God planted Dinousaur bones and other stuff (for reasons unknown?!?) The people here that is not religious belives that the Earth probably is a couple of billion years old.
Well, lets just see who proves who wrong. I really do belive that in the future people will take for granted that the earth is billion of years old , religous or not, it´s just a question of time.
Can we blaim religion for what happened with the WTC?
Can we blaim religion for women in Africa having their clitoris cut away?
Can we blaim religion for people blowing up their self in crowded areas so a lot of people die?
Can we blaim religon for people dying because their religion says that they can´t use certain medicines?
Can we blaim Religion for sciencepeople being killed for their belives and theories?
Can we blaim relgion for the death of thousends of Afhanistan women and children?
IMO HELL YES!!! I hate when people hide their actions behind a book!!!
A week ago a Swedish "A religiousfree-school" was closed because the teachers told the students that cancer only happens too people who lakes fate in God. That is not a Joke. They actually told the students that if you don´t belive in God, you very well can get cancer but if you belive in God that will not happen to you!!!
Can we blaim science for the nuke?
Can we blaim science for weapons?
Can we blaim science for polution?
Hell yes. But Science also brings good things:
Medicin
Internet
Computers
Playstation 2
Books
Understanding the nature.
The only good thing with religion IMO is that people can find thrust and friendship and a identity for them selfs.
Noone will ever ever convince me that religion is a good thing. Please try if you feel you can convince me.
Just take one week of your life and look at the news on the TV and document all wars, all suicides and every other terrible things you see on TV and try too put those things together with religion, not very hard. Not that religion is the cause for all evil, but you can find religion too often.
You all have the right to belive what you want but for IMO religion is a evil thing that brings out the worst in mankind.
People are actually killing eachother because they belives in different religions!!!! It´s sad, it´s pathetic.
Its a human right to belive whatever you want. But why can´t some religious people understand that!?!? Why do some "free religos schools" in Sweden tell the children that cancer is something you get because you have lake of fate in God? Why??
I cant prove for any of you that the Earth is almost 5 billion years old. It doesn´t matter what kind of evidence I show, because you will still have your book that claimes the opposit.
I can´t prove that religion started because humans didnt know better. We thought that when their was a earthquake a mysterious force had punished the humans. We didn´t know better!! we started to belive their was this superior force a God that caused this.
I can´t prove for you guys that dinousaures lived, I can´t even prove that I exist.
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Hey Bossieman! What about all those church organizations that help feed the hungry, clothe the poor, and finds homes for the homeless? That\'s good. . . right?
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Bossieman, I was hoping you would reply with your science facts. Your post made the most sense and was the most intelligent (except for the typos ;) ). I agree. Religion can be blamed for quite a bit of the worlds problems. The war in Afghanistan. Bin Laden declared a holy war on the US. Holy war for what? He\'s saying to the bombers that if they kill themselves for this "holy war" that they will go to heaven. Isn\'t that the biggest load of crap. I was flipping trought the book of Genesis. I couldn\'t believe a word that book said. Noah was 500 years old? It is physically impossible. Could Abraham really be a prophet? According to Kafka (sp), Abraham could have just said that so he didn\'t look like an old fool. When Joshua blew down the walls of Jericho (if it was Joshua. Don\'t remember who it was exactly), couldn\'t it just have been an earthquake? I think so. Jericho sits on an earthquake belt.
I still find it amusing that people believe the earth is only a few thousand years old. They are so dumb. There is hardcore scientific evidence that the earth is 4.whatever billion years old.
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Originally posted by Titan
I think so. Jericho sits on an earthquake belt.
Um, don\'t you mean "fault line?" Funny coincidence how there was an earthquake at just the right time for Joshua.
Oh, and I think the Earth is 4 Billion years old too. But I wouldn\'t say the evidence is "hardcore." Could be more, could be less, but right around 4 billion years sounds about right.
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man this is a deep topic....14 pages!:surprised
congrats on 2000 posts trog:)
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Originally posted by Kimahri
man this is a deep topic....14 pages!:surprised
congrats on 2000 posts trog:)
Why thank you sir. I\'ve decided to steer clear of the "I made 2000 posts!" thread, and so I\'ll just have to go off topic here to pat myself on the back.
*pat*
*pat*
Oh, and my settings are different from yours, it\'s only 9 pages long for me. :)
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Oh, and my settings are different from yours, it\'s only 9 pages long for me. :)
Interesting.....what settings would affect that?
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Originally posted by Kimahri
Interesting.....what settings would affect that?
# of posts per page
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
# of posts per page
heh, just changed mine, now its 9 too...i like it better that way for some reason.
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*sigh*
Religous threads always do well.....
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Hey, congratulations, Trog. If my computer wasn\'t going so amazingly slow, I\'d say something, else, but yeah :)
Yeah, Go Georgia and stuff...hey, did you ever get those Megumi Hayashibara songs you tried to get? Yeah, go Japanese Pop..woo :)
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by ROL Jamas
Hey, congratulations, Trog. If my computer wasn\'t going so amazingly slow, I\'d say something, else, but yeah :)
Yeah, Go Georgia and stuff...hey, did you ever get those Megumi Hayashibara songs you tried to get? Yeah, go Japanese Pop..woo :)
See Yuz.
So. . continuing the tangent. . . yes, I have gotten the songs, and you\'re right. . . they rock! (And thanx for the congratz.)
I was watching the international channel, on Monday nights @ 1:00 AM EST they show Japanese music videos. Got me some more songs from there.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Um, don\'t you mean "fault line?"
Same thing :D
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I did not read every reply in this thread.. But everyone should read Bossiemans reply.
The best Ive read in this debate.. I agree 100% with it.
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Originally posted by fastson
I did not read every reply in this thread.. But everyone should read Bossiemans reply.
The best Ive read in this debate.. I agree 100% with it.
And if Bossieman jumped off a bridge. . .
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
And if Bossieman jumped off a bridge. . .
it would´t be because of his religion.
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Originally posted by Bossieman
it would´t be because of his religion.
Touché.
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PSX2Central: Home of Generalizations.
I think I have finally gotten Bossieman. He is completely right in many respects. But he only uses generalizations from things that happened either hundreds of years ago, or with radicals today.
"Can we blaim religion for what happened with the WTC?
Can we blaim religion for women in Africa having their clitoris cut away?
Can we blaim religion for people blowing up their self in crowded areas so a lot of people die?
Can we blaim religon for people dying because their religion says that they can´t use certain medicines?
Can we blaim Religion for sciencepeople being killed for their belives and theories?
Can we blaim relgion for the death of thousends of Afhanistan women and children? "
no. We can blame mentally ill people being manipulated by extremists. No religion on Earth teaches hatred and violence against others. You make it seem like all religions teach these things you talk about in your post.
My religion has never told me to blow up people, not take medicine, killed people for believing something, nor done anything radical...ever. In fact, my religion and it\'s people have been the victim by many people of other beliefs (science being of them.)
You can generalize all you want, but none of that is true about my church. It is sad to see people agreeing with you because they have gone down the same misguided path. You can say the Catholic church set Science back 300 years (which it did) but that is THEIR problem, not every other sect on the planet. You make it seem like all religions can be attributed the WTC, deaths, wars, etc. Well name one thing the LDS church has done wrong to people. Please...tell me.
We are led by God through the Prophet of our church to do what is right, we have the fullness of the gospel and would never do that.
Ignorance is great and all that, but you should never generalize to make a point when most of your opinion is grossly incorrect.
Try rereading Bossieman\'s post and tell me how \'100% Correct" it sounds.
Eric Jacob
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Hey Altered, and IronFist, what\'s your take on "Redcliffs." The Mormon reform camp. I want to see what you have to say before I tell you of my friends hand-on account from her brother.
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never heard of it. do tell.
BTW, your old sig was funny, why the change?
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
never heard of it. do tell.
BTW, your old sig was funny, why the change?
Eric Jacob
Change is good for the soul. Memories last a lifetime.
I\'ll wait for IronFist to comment, \'cause if y\'all don\'t know of it, y\'all will probably deny its existence when I tell my story.
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Religion does cause war. Religion is on of the mian reasons for war. The Christian Crusades, great example. An example closer to the present would the Palestine/Isreal conflict. Religion is even the underlying reason for the Afganistan conflict. The Muslims even have a word which means holy war. There can be no good war, no right war. Religious people start wars, because they beleive enough in their religion to die for it. But surely someone must be wrong. What makes anyone think that out of the hundreds of religions, that theirs is right. It\'s called brain-washing.
I don\'t care what hyped up religious denomination anyone beleives in. I don\'t care whether someone is Mormon, Jew, Hindu or Buddhist, Catholic or Church of England, all the religions are false. Some of them teach some worthwhile messages, but they teach them through stories which aren\'t true.
I can say without hesistation that I feel more free without the strain of religion. When I was younger I was CofE, and I always felt the need to be doing things to please God, trying to live as someone I was not. As I got older (about 12) I just looked at the facts and realised there was no such person as God.
A person is responsible for their own actions and must face the consequences. There is no higher power that governs everything, and there is no life after this. I hate the concept, but know it to be true.
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Redcliffs? Nope, never heard of it. Is it something like the Reformed LDS church, or is it something completely different? (incase you don\'t know, the RLDS church is a branch off of the LDS church. The person who started it didn\'t believe in some of the things the LDS churched believed in, so he added and changed some things.)
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Originally posted by Disc 2
Religion does cause war. Religion is on of the mian reasons for war. The Christian Crusades, great example. An example closer to the present would the Palestine/Isreal conflict. Religion is even the underlying reason for the Afganistan conflict. The Muslims even have a word which means holy war. There can be no good war, no right war. Religious people start wars, because they beleive enough in their religion to die for it. But surely someone must be wrong. What makes anyone think that out of the hundreds of religions, that theirs is right. It\'s called brain-washing.
I don\'t care what hyped up religious denomination anyone beleives in. I don\'t care whether someone is Mormon, Jew, Hindu or Buddhist, Catholic or Church of England, all the religions are false. Some of them teach some worthwhile messages, but they teach them through stories which aren\'t true.
I can say without hesistation that I feel more free without the strain of religion. When I was younger I was CofE, and I always felt the need to be doing things to please God, trying to live as someone I was not. As I got older (about 12) I just looked at the facts and realised there was no such person as God.
A person is responsible for their own actions and must face the consequences. There is no higher power that governs everything, and there is no life after this. I hate the concept, but know it to be true.
It doesn´t matter what we say!!! They always find ways around the problem.- No !!!religion doesn´t cause war, evil man does!! a.s.o
Some people just cant understand and they don´t want to belive and understand that religion makes war. They will never change there mind!!!
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Bossieman, you are being ignorant of what I JUST said.
MY religion has never caused a war. I know plenty of others that haven\'t either. You can\'t say religion starts wars because that is grossly ignorant of the true facts.
I know plenty of people in the pst that have died for their own special religion; science. Ever believe in something so much you would die for it? That is the way we feel about our religion. We are so secure in the knowledge that our church is the one and true church of God on the Earth that I would willingly die for it, but my church would never ask me to kill people or take over lands, etc. My church isn\'t led by greed, it is led by God.
Eric Jacob
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Yeah, your religion is only a couple hundred years old and most are in America (correct me if i\'m wrong). Your religion won\'t start a holy war against the US. There are no and never will be a holy war in the US.
These are conflicts that I know of that are caused by religion
1) This "Holy war" with Bin Laden (he feels that we are threatening his religion). The only reason it\'s a "Holy War" is because Bin Laden knows that he will die (same with his followers) and according to his relgion, they will go to heaven.
2) Israel vs. Palestine- people are blowing themselves up to destroy one religion. Its a fight over holy land.
3) The crusades. An attempt to capture the holy land. This was lead by their Pope and the Catholic Church.
4) THis isn\'t a conflict. I saw on 20/20, 48 hours or 60 mins (i don\'t remember which o;ne) that there is this church that doesn\'t allow people in it\'s church to take medicines of any kind. No asperin, no cold medication and I believe that they also don\'t get vaccinated. Instead, they pray; for god to make them better. Never happens. There were people that could have been saved if they took pills or even a simple shot.
5) Science people get killed jsut for proving that religion can be wrong.
Note: I took Bossieman\'s naming of conflicts and explaining what is going on. Sorry man.
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Originally posted by Titan
Yeah, your religion is only a couple hundred years old and most are in America (correct me if i\'m wrong).
It was brought back onto the earth almost 200 years ago in America, but now it has grown throughout the world. I am pretty sure that there are more members out of America than in America. We have missionaries in nearly every country, and even have missionaries in some of the more strict religious countries like China.
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I still can\'t believe this thread is going on. I only posted a slightly funny observastion that some ppl took wayyyy outta context. O well, its been pretty good reading after all. Im proud to be a member here after such response\'s. Kudo\'s to all who have participated!!!
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Just so everyone knows this thread cannot take much more.
It\'s going to end up like the countdown thread from over a year ago. Eventually it will stop going to the top and it will die. This is just a warning for those who don\'t remember the ill fate of the countdown thread.
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Religion = the root of all that\'s evil
End of discussion.
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
Just so everyone knows this thread cannot take much more.
It\'s going to end up like the countdown thread from over a year ago. Eventually it will stop going to the top and it will die. This is just a warning for those who don\'t remember the ill fate of the countdown thread.
The countdown thread going down the crapper was due to a server/forum change, not due to its size. The new forums were a little unstable and couldn\'t handle the huge thread like the old forum could. But the forums we have now shouldn\'t have a problem with a thread of that magnitude. I think even if this thread did get up to 1000 posts, it would still be fine (although it will probably be locked before then. ;))
JP,
Religion = the root of all that\'s evil
End of discussion.
Wow, that\'s a nice opinion you\'ve got there. Do you mind telling us why?
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Originally posted by JP
Religion = the root of all that\'s evil
End of discussion.
I agree with Fist..why not add some substance to your opinion. Thats just like if you were interested in a ps2 game and someone said it sucked, wouldnt you want to kow why?
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Well.....I only read about the first 5 posts and everyone was arguing why church is on Sun. instead of SAT. Well..... to answer you Sun. is the holy day. Why? I dont know it just is doesnt have to do with god resting.....or what day of the week it is. It\'s just the way it is. Plus in my town, our church holds mass services at 5 pm Sat. and 9 am+11 am on Sun.
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Church is for suckers.
The bible is supposed to be read as a work of fiction.
Give me a break with those angels, miracles, and what not.
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Troglodyte, are you going to tell us about the redcliffs? I\'ve tried looking for information about it on the internet, but I can only find sites that don\'t really say what it is and sites that refer to the "Christchurch" in Australia. I am really interested in how this story of yours has any relevance to the Mormons.
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Originally posted by IronFist
Wow, that\'s a nice opinion you\'ve got there. Do you mind telling us why?
Simple. JP is an ignorant person who believes in his opinion and his alone. He is not open to new ideas, and he is a conservative *****.
But he\'s still cool, yeah, sure :)
See Yuz.
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Alrighty, RedCliffs. I have a friend who\'s parents sent her Brother to this Mormon "reform" program in the Redcliffs. . . the program may be under another name, but most refer it as the "Redcliffs," and you\'ll know why soon enough.
So this is for kids that get kicked out of school and what-not, bad kids all around. Parents send their kids for some tough Mormon love, but my parents didn\'t think it would be this tough.
The guy was with a group of 7 other kids, 14-or-so. They were left out in the desert of the RedCliffs for six weeks with the bare-minimum, and a "guide" of sorts, to give them spiritual and physical guidance.
They earned points, the first thing you did was learn how to hunt your own food. If you couldn\'t catch anything. . . you didn\'t eat.
After earning enough points, you earn some SHOES! It takes about a week before you earn freakin\' shoes. . . in the desert!
For six weeks they lived off the land. No showers, no processed food, nothing.
They made them run around mountains and such.
On the last day they had to do a "Three peak run." At the end there was a red ribbon, with their parents waiting. My friend said that he crossed the finnish line absolutly filthy, six weeks of desert grime in his hair.
After he got home and showered off, the first thing he wasnted to do was go to a super market to just "look at the food." And that\'s what they did. He cried, having seen so much food that he couldn\'t have for 6 weeks of feeding off of wild hares and lizards.
When he was sitting at home, he kept on jerking his head whenever a bird would fly by the window. He was totally programmed for the hunt-and-kill.
That\'s not tough love. . . that\'s tourture.
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or sounds like BS to me.
that is something completely anti-mormon and anti-legal.
I am sorry, but I am gonna have to go ahead and not believe you on this one.
Eric Jacob
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Our church doesn\'t offer, and definitely does not endorse programs like that. It\'s BS.
I really think details about this program have been lost during transition of the story. You\'ve played that "telephone" game where one person whispers a sentence into someone\'s ear, then that person does the same to the next person, and by the time it gets around the room it\'s usually completely different than the original sentence, haven\'t you? Have you heard the story straight from the horses mouth? And if so, are you sure he was telling you the full truth?
BTW, where does this reform program take place?
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Straight from the brother\'s sister. She was there when he crossed the finish line. I talked to her in person at a dinner party.
You\'ll have to pardon me, but I\'m going to believe my friend with the Mormon parents, rather than the faceless names I see here, that throughout this thread have contradicted the beliefs of the Mormons I see face-to-face.
The reform takes place in the RedCliffs, Utah.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
You\'ll have to pardon me, but I\'m going to believe my friend with the Mormon parents, rather than the faceless names I see here, that throughout this thread have contradicted the beliefs of the Mormons I see face-to-face.
Oh, these are the same people who said the differences in the Bibles were just a preference thing? Now things are starting to make sense...
I have searched and searched for information about this reform program in Red Cliffs, Utah, and can only find recreational sites about it. I will keep my eyes and ears open for any info about this, but as of right now, I really doubt anything of this nature would be endorsed by the LDS church.
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Let\'s just say this IS real, which I still do not believe it is.
Why does it have to be a \'Mormon" reform camp? Why can\'t it just be a reform camp in which some Mormons participate? It seems like everything some Joe Shmoe Mormon does strange is turned into a "mormon practice".
BTW, if this is the same friend who believes the Bible\'s different versions are by preference then they are either pulling your leg, EXTREMELY new converts, or are completely ignorant of what the church teaches them.
This is extremely sketchy to me, as no LDS ward or stake would condone the practice of this, that is unless we are talking about southern Utah where the polygamists live, which they claim to be Mormons, even though they have been excommunicated or were never LDS in the first place. In that case, these supposed mormons don\'t know what is right or what is wrong, as they have no divine revelation to guide them, nor the Holy Ghost.
still sounds like BS to me.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Straight from the brother\'s sister. She was there when he crossed the finish line. I talked to her in person at a dinner party.
You\'ll have to pardon me, but I\'m going to believe my friend with the Mormon parents, rather than the faceless names I see here, that throughout this thread have contradicted the beliefs of the Mormons I see face-to-face.
The reform takes place in the RedCliffs, Utah.
Your story sounds quite true to me. Altered, you think everything is BS that you don\'t like to hear don\'t you?
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
...unless we are talking about southern Utah where the polygamists live...
Actually, the polygamists live in Northern Utah and in Southern Idaho. There are actually more polygamists living in Idaho than in Utah. That\'s not really important, but I thought you would want to know. :)
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Racer, you like these?
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcrazy.codetroop.com%2Frandimg%2Fimgs%2Fbiblebar.jpg&hash=2f704e8510db25d7a4c411818efc0a2baf3cd6a3)
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Originally posted by Titan
Altered, you think everything is BS that you don\'t like to hear don\'t you?
heheh, I was thinking that too for some reason.
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wait a second...Titan and luckee, you guys are Mormon???? No? So you have no idea what I am talking about then.
:rolleyes:
The LDS church would NEVER condone something like this. period. What might be is the excommunicated Mormons from Northern or Southern Utah who believe they are still LDS, even though they aren\'t, do this. Or people who aren\'t right in the head that just happen to be (although it would ALWAYS be made the central focus) Mormon hold this Redcliffs, which, for my money, I still can\'t believe it is. I go to Utah twice a year, have my whole life. Most of my relatives live in Utah, plus I am a member of the church. I think I would know if this story was BS a little more than you.
"Oh I agree with you, buddy!!! Down with Mormonism, wheeeee!!!"
Gimme a break.
Eric Jacob
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They found a dinosaur with feathers. I mean like, duh... Of course there were dinosaurs with feathers. I mean crap, everything was created at the same time, right? Of course there were dinosaurs with feathers. Heck, there were humans too back then. It was only a couple thousand years ago.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa799.ms.akamai.net%2F3%2F799%2F388%2F5d63c5d179e0df%2Fwww.msnbc.com%2Fnews%2F1406238.jpg&hash=7a4cea18d352d268c9badff2cff250d222b2b1fd)
http://www.msnbc.com/news/720192.asp?0dm=C12RT
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Originally posted by Videoholic
They found a dinosaur with feathers. I mean like, duh... Of course there were dinosaurs with feathers. I mean crap, everything was created at the same time, right? Of course there were dinosaurs with feathers. Heck, there were humans too back then. It was only a couple thousand years ago.
If the Dinosaurs and humans lived together, how could the humans have survived?
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Originally posted by IronFist
If the Dinosaurs and humans lived together, how could the humans have survived?
What do you mean? We are fast and wiley. Plus we had the big ark.
Wait, that reminds me, how did Noah fit the Brontosaurus on the arc?
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
The LDS church would NEVER condone something like this. period. What might be is the excommunicated Mormons from Northern or Southern Utah who believe they are still LDS, even though they aren\'t, do this. Or people who aren\'t right in the head that just happen to be (although it would ALWAYS be made the central focus) Mormon hold this Redcliffs, which, for my money, I still can\'t believe it is. I go to Utah twice a year, have my whole life. Most of my relatives live in Utah, plus I am a member of the church. I think I would know if this story was BS a little more than you.
"Oh I agree with you, buddy!!! Down with Mormonism, wheeeee!!!"
you seem to think everyone is out to get your church don\'t you? Has it ever occured to you that someone in your religion might be the tiniest bit corrupt? Thought not. Mormonism is just anther BS religion, like every other religion:)
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Originally posted by Disc 2
you seem to think everyone is out to get your church don\'t you?
Well that isn\'t too far from the truth. It\'s sad, but very true, our church is hated and in some cases feared because of our beliefs. Lies are started and spread quickly throughout other religions about our religion. Heck, some people still believe that Mormons have horns.
Has it ever occured to you that someone in your religion might be the tiniest bit corrupt? Thought not.
Of course he thought of that. That is why he is questioning the credibilty of Troglodyte sources. No one in our church is perfect. We all have problems that we should be striving to improve on. And yes, like Altered said, there have been people who were corrupt and rebelled against our church.
I do not know if it\'s Troglodyte\'s sources that are wrong, or if it\'s just a slight misunderstand/bending of the truth/etc. But whatever it is, I do not believe that what Troglodyte said is true. I will keep an open mind about it though and keep my ears and eyes open.
Mormonism is just anther BS religion, like every other religion
I\'m sorry you feel that way.
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Well, I think it\'s sad that Disc here can\'t believe in god. If it is total BS, why does nearly everybody in the world belive in *some* type of religion?
Really doesn\'t make sense if Religion is that popular, man.
See Yuz.
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Heh..I remember when a couple of mormons showed up at my place. I asked them about Quetzelquatle...a god with holes in the palm of his hands that people of the Incas worsphipped. They said, "Yeah....that was Jesus!"
And then I said, "Quetzelquatle was a winged dragon. But Joseph Smith didn\'t know that. He just heard about the hole in its palms and concluded it was Jesus."
We all make mistakes. :)
BTW, I\'m Catholic. I\'m used to the redicule. :D
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<---- Corrupt Mormon
I am technicaly a mormon. I was born and raised mormon and my parents are still mormon.
I think that of all the Christian based religions you people would find Mormonism the easiest to believe. I can understand the fact that any religion is pretty hard to swallow, but I think the Mormon religion has a firm grasp on reality compared to other religions.
Don\'t get me wrong, I am now older, married and living on my own without claiming any religion. However, I still think Mormonism is the least corrupt.
The ideals of the religion, the way it is run, the wellfare system, the vollunteer method of set-up...etc. These are all great aspects of a religion where everyone involved is a vollunteer and nobody gets paid.
Where is the corruption??? Not in the system but in some of the people.
The Nintendo 64 is a good system... just because some jerk-off played it way too much and died doesn\'t mean it is a deadly machine.
If I had to point at one Christian religion and say "That religion is the most clean in it\'s ideals" it would have to be Mormons.
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Mormons do have one perk I like, bigomy! WOOT!
I love how Joseph Smith thought he found some ancient writings in South America and he thought they were written by angels. Turned out to be an Inca grocery list!
There is only one Bible. And it wasn\'t written by Mormons.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Mormons do have one perk I like, bigomy! WOOT!
I love how Joseph Smith thought he found some ancient writings in South America and he thought they were written by angels. Turned out to be an Inca grocery list!
There is only one Bible. And it wasn\'t written by Mormons.
Um... right... one bible, made up of a bunch of writings that PEOPLE FOUND!!!! It turns out they were all just Hebrew Grocery Lists!!! HA! the joke just keeps gettin\' funnier :rolleyes:
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It\'s not a joke. Joseph Smith was wrong. Remember, Jesus said there would be no other Prophet after Him.
And Joseph Smith claimed to be one? Uh uh. Sorry.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
It\'s not a joke. Joseph Smith was wrong. Remember, Jesus said there would be no other Prophet after Him.
And Joseph Smith claimed to be one? Uh uh. Sorry.
I find it humerous that that was your 666 post!
But seriously. . . do you have a reference verse for that?
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Pfft, this coming from a guy with 666 posts. ;]
Edit: D\'oh, it\'s not funny when someone beats you to it.
-Eik
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I\'m a history buff. I read it back in college. Back then, only a few people knew what "internet" meant.
666, eh? MWAHAHAHAHA!
Anyway, back then, I was in a religious debate with another religious person who was trying to convert me to their church. Mind you, I am religious but not in the church going kind of way. I don\'t preach, I don\'t sermon people, I live and let live. But when someone is trying to convert ME? Nuh uh. Ain\'t gonna happen. i\'m happy this way.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
It\'s not a joke. Joseph Smith was wrong. Remember, Jesus said there would be no other Prophet after Him.
And Joseph Smith claimed to be one? Uh uh. Sorry.
Uh... Right.... and who were the prophets in the New Testament that wrote in the books AFTER Jesus died??? And what about The Book of Revelations... you know... The LAST BOOK in the Bible.
Come on, use some logic.
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They\'re Desciples of Christ. Are you saying that Joseph Smith was a desciple?
HA!
EDIT : Or Apostles....whatever.
EDIT #2 : Remember, Quetzelquatle (sp?) was a dragon, not Jesus, as Joseph Smith thought.
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Originally posted by ROL Jamas
Well, I think it\'s sad that Disc here can\'t believe in god. If it is total BS, why does nearly everybody in the world belive in *some* type of religion?
Really doesn\'t make sense if Religion is that popular, man.
See Yuz.
because people feel the need to beleive in something.
More and more people in every generation grow up without beleif, it doesn\'t mean they are worse people, it\'s just that we havn\'t been brainwashed. Don\'t feel sad for me, I feel my own satisfactions without having to beleive in some superstitious idols.
Atheists and those who consider themselves non-religious make up more than one-fifth of the world\'s populations
Microsoft Encarta
I think you\'ll find that more than any other single religion (although I may be very wrong). If a religion was right, only one would be right, and therefore everyone else would be wrong. they may be religious but they would still be wrong. In my opinion, all religious people are wrong.
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I can understand your anomosity towards religion. Heck, I admit. We\'re all bad at some point! Even atheists!
So....let\'s eat some mammals and make jihad against PETA(they hate vegetables :mad: )!!!
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
They\'re Desciples of Christ. Are you saying that Joseph Smith was a desciple?
HA!
EDIT : Or Apostles....whatever.
EDIT #2 : Remember, Quetzelquatle (sp?) was a dragon, not Jesus, as Joseph Smith thought.
Uh... Right... And was Buddha a big FAT GUY with HUGE EAR-LOBES.... NO.
Sometimes the stories passed down through generations become Icons that are distorted from reality to show symbolism. Kind of like the torture device known as the CROSS becoming a symbol of something holy.
Oh... and Paul Bunion (sp?) wasn\'t 50 feet tall and he didn\'t have a blue ox. sorry to ruin that for you.
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Look, mormon..I\'m not trying to convert you. Just find out for yourself. You\'ll see what I mean about old Joseph Smith. His translations were all wrong on those Incan(or was it Mayan?) writings.
And again, go here to get an idea about Quetzalcoatl
http://www.smokinmirrors.net/tezcatli/tezcatli.html
Yeah, he did turn into a serpent.
More
http://weber.ucsd.edu/~anthclub/quetzalcoatl/quetzal.htm
And he\'s an Aztec god. Oops. sorry, not Incan.
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Yay!! SOmeone finally called someone else directly "mormon" gotta love the ignorance in that. Of course I hear that every day of my life from people I know who call me "mormon" just because it is my nick name, although a little appreciated one.
:rolleyes:
Do people always have to be right? Do you know that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young thought that people lived on the moon?? They can\'t be prophets you say. Well, The London Observor (or whatever it is called) reported back in the 1800\'s of the existence of people living on the moon, it was a common belief back then. If someone walked up to Joseph Smith and said "You know the Incans worshipped a guy with holes in his hands, name was Quetzacoatl" He wouldn\'t need to pray and ask God about it, he could use his brain and relate it to Jesus Christ.
Prophet is just a name really for someone who is a disciple of Christ. Wasn\'t it John in Revelations who foretold the Second Coming?? foretelling is PROPHECIZING!!! If someone was arguing with you back in college and told you that Jesus said no more prophets were going to be after them, they were severely wrong.
In all actuality, Amos 3:7 says- "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets"
Showing that God\'s true church is led by prophets.
Hey, all I gotta say is, if Mormonism is fake, it was organized by people who actually read the Bible and doesn\'t contradict itself over and over. Whatever floats your boat, though. Just don\'t make up false things about the church, please.
Eric Jacob
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Not making things up. And John the Baptist was born before Jesus...so that supports my claim the Jesus was the last Prophet.
Get it right.....
And eat your veggies.
EDIT! Oops...got your John\'s mixed up! :D
He fortold the second coming coz Jesus told him he\'d be BACK! Remember? After His resurrection and He met his desciples again, Jesus told them that He would return? There you go!
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Look, mormon..I\'m not trying to convert you. Just find out for yourself. You\'ll see what I mean about old Joseph Smith. His translations were all wrong on those Incan(or was it Mayan?) writings.
And again, go here to get an idea about Quetzalcoatl
http://www.smokinmirrors.net/tezcatli/tezcatli.html
Yeah, he did turn into a serpent.
More
http://weber.ucsd.edu/~anthclub/quetzalcoatl/quetzal.htm
And he\'s an Aztec god. Oops. sorry, not Incan.
No worries, I\'m not really a practicing mormon I tend to lean more toward their beliefs only because I was raised mormon and was ordained a priest before I stopped going. I really just like to debate the stuff.
I read all of the books, (The Bible, The Book of Mormon...etc.) I learned alot from them all, but the book that changed my life the most was "Way of the Peacefull Warrior."
Has anyone else read this??? It\'s not a religious book but it made me see that there are no ordinary moments.
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Ah...cool. See? If we can get along....why not the Talibans? :D
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and then Jesuis told him of the Seven Seals in great detail, and then, and then, etc. It isn\'t a short book. Revelations is a good number of chapters and quite an interesting read.
how can you deny that John was a prophet, when, at random, a verse says this: Chapter 5, verse 1 of Rev - "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."
He SAW, or for better words, it was revealed to him through the Spirit, otherwise known as PROPHECY. Did you sleep through your religion class?
Nowhere in the Bible will you see Jesus Christ saying that he would be the last prophet on the Earth. I guarantee it.
Eric Jacob
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Fine. I\'ll give you that. After all, it\'s from the REAL Bible. Not the one Joe Smith made up.
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The Mormons read the Bible as well as The Book of Mormon. they believe the exact same things you do, and then some more.
Name one thing you believe in that the Mormons don\'t. (Not something that you don\'t believe in.)
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Do you mean the Book of Mormon? I won\'t argue the validity of it with you, but I will say this: In the inside cover, title page, it says "Another Testament of Christ"
It isn\'t supposed to, nor does it, replace the Bible. It is a companion to the Bible that tells of the people\'s of america who were visited by Christ after Christ was resurrected.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by juslight
The Mormons read the Bible as well as The Book of Mormon. they believe the exact same things you do, and then some more.
Name one thing you believe in that the Mormons don\'t. (Not something that you don\'t believe in.)
Unicorns. :p
Kidding.
I believe that Joe Smith is wrong. :p
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Joseph Smith said in his final transcripts that the beast would come forth and the name of the beast would be "GmanJoe"
Just kidding... I made that up Hee Hee
Anyway, I gotta go... one of my wives needs me...;)
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well that\'s nice. You have proven your ignorance, move on.
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Originally posted by juslight
The Mormons read the Bible as well as The Book of Mormon. they believe the exact same things you do, and then some more.
Name one thing you believe in that the Mormons don\'t. (Not something that you don\'t believe in.)
Most other Christians believe that God is the one and only true God, while Mormons believe he was just a great guy on some other planet and Earth is his new play thing. They believe that there are a lot of Gods floatin\' around the universe. That\'s what I have gathered in this thread. . . by all means. . . correct me if I\'m wrong.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Unicorns. :p
Kidding.
I believe that Joe Smith is wrong. :p
See that\'s something that you DON\'T believe in. Name something you BELIEVE IN that you could still say it even if the mormon religion never existed.
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My post ties the thread for the longest one in OT!!!!!
NEXT PERSON GETS TO KNOCK IT OVER THE TOP!!!
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I want three wives. Do mormons allow this?
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nobody post, we don\'t want that happening...d\'oh
Eric Jacob
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Wow, this thread just exploded into a Mormon vs everything thread. I like! :)
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It\'s an easy fight ;)
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
I want three wives. Do mormons allow this?
No, they don\'t allow that.
Back when the pioneers took wagons and horses to Utah they didn\'t have any rules against it, but now they do.
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All this talk about multiple wives reminds me of a discussion our class had in church a few years ago. So do you guys think Polygami will ever be brought back into our religion? Because Polygami was once part of our church for a reason. There are way more righteous girls out there than guys, so in order for all of them to have a fair chance to go to heaven, they will need to be married to a rightous guy. And if it ever was brought back, whether it is in this life or in the Spirit prison/paradise right after death, what would you think about it? Would it be a hard thing to do, or would you have no problem marrying multiple wives?
I personally think it would be a little weird. :) Especially if I\'ve lived with one wife my whole life and then am commanded to go get another one, or two.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Fine. I\'ll give you that. After all, it\'s from the REAL Bible. Not the one Joe Smith made up.
How do you know Joseph Smith made it up? Have you read it, or are you basing your opinion on it by what others have told you?
Trog,
Most other Christians believe that God is the one and only true God, while Mormons believe he was just a great guy on some other planet and Earth is his new play thing. They believe that there are a lot of Gods floatin\' around the universe. That\'s what I have gathered in this thread. . . by all means. . . correct me if I\'m wrong.
Well Earth isn\'t his only "play thing." He has innumerable planets which are a lot like this one, and they all have people on them just like us. And yes, there are gods out there who were once probably just like you.
I disagree with Juslight\'s statement slightly though. We do not believe the exact same things that the other Christian churches believe in because the other Christian church\'s Bibles are (to us) translated incorrectly. For example, other Christian churches (not all of them, but some of them), teach that us humans are greater than angels. I don\'t believe this. I think we have the potential to be greater than Angels, and we have the potential to be angels, but right now we are not greater than angels. Juslight is almost completely right that we believe in everything that you do, and then some, but there are a few things that other Chirstian churches believe in that we don\'t.
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Reading about this Joe Smith guy, I can make a few assumptions. He sounds to me like a nerd that no one would talk to. His idea\'s seem to be crap but people believed them for some weird reason. He said that Jesus came again to the Aztecs. How could he come and go again? The second coming is it. The next time he comes is the end of the world. And what is this crap I\'m hearing that this is God\'s play place from another planet? Sounds pretty messed up to me. I also read that the mormons believe that God has sex where and whenever with how many women he wants. No wonder so many followers. The sex. I also read that you believe that when you die, you get your own planet. So according to mormons, there are people living on Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto? That sounds too far fetched.
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Originally posted by IronFist
For example, other Christian churches (not all of them, but some of them), teach that us humans are greater than angels. I don\'t believe this.
I\'ve never heard of that from any belief anywhere. Where did you find that heaping load of crap?
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I\'ve never heard of that from any belief anywhere. Where did you find that heaping load of crap?
On one of those Christian preaching shows early in the morning. He gave like a half hour seminar about why we humans are superior to angels, and even took scriptures out of the Bible to prove it (I can\'t remember the scriptures, but at the time I was saying, "you are taking that out of context you fool!" ;)) I knew it was BS, and you obviously do too, but there are religions out there who are being taught things that you and I think is BS.
Titan:
Reading about this Joe Smith guy, I can make a few assumptions. He sounds to me like a nerd that no one would talk to. His idea\'s seem to be crap but people believed them for some weird reason.
Yes, for some weird reason 11 million people believe this crazy guy. And for some reason our church is growing faster than any other church out there because of what this crazy guy who nobody liked wrote. *grOan* And just a correction, this guy was no nerd. He was a normal person who had a fourth grade education, yet he somehow managed to "write" a 500 page book in 75 days that never contradicts itself and has withstood thousands of people\'s attacks on it. It also gives accurate details about different places and things in the world, places that Joseph himself had never seen. As technology progresses and more things about this world are discovered, more and more things point to the Book of Mormon being true instead of false like most people would think.
He said that Jesus came again to the Aztecs. How could he come and go again? The second coming is it.
The people on the Americas needed to witness that Jesus Christ had been crucified, and then resurrected. If you want to know about it, read 3 Nephi, chapter 11 in the Book of Mormon.
And what is this crap I\'m hearing that this is God\'s play place from another planet?
It\'s just that, crap. Troglodyte used words to represent something, and then you took those words and modified them a little more. Now they are meaningless. Just forget about it.
I also read that the mormons believe that God has sex where and whenever with how many women he wants. No wonder so many followers. The sex.
Wow, if you read it, it must be true! Mormons are Do0M3D!
I also read that you believe that when you die, you get your own planet. So according to mormons, there are people living on Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto? That sounds too far fetched.
Open your mind a little bit. The 9 planets orbiting around the Sun are not the only planets in the universe. What you are asking about is what we call the Plan of Salvation. Here is a breef summery.
1. Premortal life.
2. Earth - we come down here to get our bodies, to get baptised, to get married to a wife, and to live worthily of returning back to God.
3. We go to the spirit world (which iirc, is right here on this planet, just dead [I want to pic a wink emoticon here, but I\'m already over the pic limit][I want to put an agry emoticon here, but, well, you know]). And on the spirit world, there are two places, or spiritual states, you can go, prison or paradise. Don\'t let the words fool you, the only difference is that the paradise is people who know of the true gospel, and the prison is the people who don\'t know yet about the true gospel. The people in paradise go around teaching the people in prison about the gospel, and they have a choice to accept it or not.
4. We are judged for our actions on this planet.
5. We go to one of the 3 kingdoms according to how well we did on this planet.
- The worst is the Telestial Kingdom. All sinners go here.
- The middle one is the terestial Kingdom. All people who have lived a worthy life but have not accepted the true church go here.
- The highest and best one is the Celestial Kingdom. There are 3 degrees of glory in the Celestial Kingdom.
The three degrees of the Celestial Kingdom are as follows:
- The lowest one is where people go to become Angels, or messengers of God. This is where the people go who never got married, but they were Baptised in the true church and have lived a worthy life.
- The middle one is still not known to us. Most likely we will not have to worry about what this one is.
- The Highest Kingdom is Exaltation. If you do everything you need to on the Earth (Baptism in the true church, eternal marriage in the temple), than you will go here. Here, and only here, is where you can progress. You and your spouse can work hard and study and eventually become Gods. Then you can have seed without number like God says to Abraham in the bible.
Here is a pic of what I just said above. It\'s the only pic I could find on the internet, so sorry about it being so freaking colorful. (I have never seen a picture of the Plan of Salvation that is this colorful, ugh.)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.earthlink.net%2F%7Ehvsewgallery%2Fsimages%2Fplan_of_salvation.jpg&hash=c7ff4c60436ac94b17292ed55f32661a8ed401c0)
You may think that us Mormons are crazy for believing things like that, and that\'s fine, we\'re used to being called crazy. :) But I want to point out that recent reports from scientists revealed that the Universe is actually growing...hmmm, I wonder why. ;)
EDIT: To clarify on that last sentence, that is just a theory of mine and is not revelation of any kind. Oh, and I also added a cool little "Plan of Salvation" picture. Enjoy. :)
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Im starting to like religion now..
To hell with science..
Where are you Thor, Odin, Balder, Vidar ect?
When I die I will go to Valhalla like the brave warrior I am.. I will walk through the 540 doors to the castle.
Then Ragnarök will come and the ultimate battle will happen where good and evil fight.. Everyone will die.
Everything will start over and Balder will be the new master god.
Religion RAAWKS!
*and a few years later scientists will come up with the ultimate answer and fastson will see that he has wasted his whole life on religion* ;)
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Please help, this thread is soooooooo long that I\'m not sure what it is about, someone please refresher me memory!
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the only people crazier than Mormons are Jehovah\'s witnesses.
(Sorry, I just haven\'t posted anything arrogant, ignorant or offensive for awhile)
;)
God dammit this thread is huge. :laughing:
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He he he I told you!!
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Originally posted by IronFist
You may think that us Mormons are crazy for believing things like that, and that\'s fine, we\'re used to being called crazy. :) But I want to point out that recent reports from scientists revealed that the Universe is actually growing...hmmm, I wonder why. ;)
You\'re not crazy, just full of crap. . . there. . . I said it.
The Universe has always been expanding. . . duh. . . Big Bang theory. The other part of that theory is that the universe will hit a "reachable end" and start to contract back. . . all the way back.
The odds of life as we know it on another planet is some ridiculous number, like .0000000273% chance. I posted the actual number in this threads "older brother."
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This thread was a lot better when we were talking about pet dinosaurs living with humans.
Do Mormons believe that Dinosaurs and humans lived together? If so, were the dinosaurs allowed to have more than one partner?
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
You\'re not crazy, just full of crap. . . there. . . I said it.
Why, because my beliefs are different from yours? (https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fimage%2Femoticons_classic%2Fohwell.gif&hash=a5bb4407b02a3afc6c901cf8b911deeb21849e59)
The Universe has always been expanding. . . duh. . . Big Bang theory. The other part of that theory is that the universe will hit a "reachable end" and start to contract back. . . all the way back.
One theory that I have is what I said above, that the universe is growing because more and more planets are being made and the population of "people" is getting bigger and bigger. It\'s just a theory that I have, and is not revelation from my church (I should have been more clear on that the last comment, the one that you quoted, was just a theory of mine). I do not know how much our God has possession of though. Does he have full control of the whole universe as we know it? Does each God get their own universe to build? If so, then my theory would be false because God is not building planets right now (based on knowledge I have of God\'s planets, the age of those planets, and the significance of this one).
But if God only has one galaxy, or one giant group of galaxies, ect, within this universe, then maybe the universe is growing because other gods are building their planets.
But instead of me sitting here defending my theories/beliefs, why don\'t you tell us what you think? Where do you think we go after we die? Where were we before we came here? What is the purpose of life, and what do we have to do to fulfill that purpose?
Videoholic
Do Mormons believe that Dinosaurs and humans lived together?
Some do, some don\'t. That is up for debate because our church doesn\'t say one way or the other. There are a lot of theories about if we lived with the Dinosaurs at one time or not (two of which I posted earlier around page 10 I think), but they are just personal beliefs. But that really is not important for us to know. It does not effect our salvation in any way, so pondering over it would be a waste of time.
Oh, and funny joke. :D
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Originally posted by IronFist
Why, because my beliefs are different from yours?
Honestly, Mormonism is the only religion that I have studied in-depth so far that I think is the most selfish, self-centered religion out there. I\'m sick and tiered of their "Holier-than thou" attitude, their selfish belief that they can be God, and the freakin\' belief that if you don\'t get married you get shafted, and that women are screwed because there aren\'t enough men. I can\'t possibly believe that there is no true Hell, and that Heaven has "levels." Honestly I think that some major mis-interpretation of the Bible has taken place.
I\'m sure none of this will affect you because of the "Mormon thick skull brainwashing." And wehatever you say probably won\'t change my hardening towards your religion.
If I had a choice between Science and Mormonism, I\'d choose science.
If I had a choice between most other religions and science, I\'d choose the other religion.
I\'m sorry, I\'ve tried since the first big religion thread to see some good out of Mormonism, I\'ve talked to Mormons, looked through the Book of Mormon, put up with y\'alls bantering. But my open mind has been hardened by the utter crap I\'ve seen.
I\'m also sorry for bringing this out in this manner, but honestly I can\'t think of a way to post it nicer at this time. I\'ll probably regret doing this later, but I have to move on.
It is my belief that if you accept the sacrifices of Christ, or that you follow the ten commandments to the "T," that you will be accepted into the kingdom of God.
I guess we\'ll have to wait for our bodies to release our souls. I\'ll see you in Heaven, when we can finally prove who is right, and who was misled by the misunderstandings caused by our puny little brains.
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Originally posted by IronFist
But that really is not important for us to know. It does not effect our salvation in any way, so pondering over it would be a waste of time.
Unless of course you believe in the whole arc thing and that two of everything was on it. Two brontosaurus, a couple of t-rexes, a few crocodiles and some elephants and you\'ve got a party.
I don\'t get why people find it whacked to believe in Santa Claus, but in the same sentence could easily explain the arc, the parting of the seas, the making of the first chick from a rib, the idea that dinosaurs lived with humans, etc........
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Originally posted by Videoholic
I don\'t get why people find it whacked to believe in Santa Claus, but in the same sentence could easily explain the arc, the parting of the seas, the making of the first chick from a rib, the idea that dinosaurs lived with humans, etc........
Our parents confirm that Santa isn\'t real, they can\'t do that with God.
My whole guess about the arc is that the dinosaurs died out before the arc was built.
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Personaly all religion seems like brainwashing to me.And the universe is\'nt growing it\'s expanding.Like marbels on a spinning table.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Our parents confirm that Santa isn\'t real, they can\'t do that with God.
My whole guess about the arc is that the dinosaurs died out before the arc was built.
How can your parents confirm there is no Santa? There are plenty of books out there that says he does exist and that he will come back every year.
Ever read Night Before Christmas?
It\'s just that we don\'t have ministers out there trying to take your money to preach the word of Santa.
Maybe I should start that church too. I could have my church/sports bar and my Santa\'s Dominion.
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Wow! 435 posts. Has anybody gotten saved yet or is this thread all for naught.;)
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Santa Clause did exist. But not in the way commercialism has him depicted.
Nicholas was the Bishop of Myra, ancient city in today\'s Turkey. This was back when Rome was still in power. He was best known for helping an old man who had no dowry for his daughters. The father was going have one of his daughters sold to prostitution coz they were so poor. Nicholas heard about this and snuck into his home one night and let some gold coins in a sock(which apparently belonged to the old man) that were hung by their fireplace. The man found the coins, and by tradition, had enough dowry for his daughters for marriage.
Legend has it that the the practice of "secret giving" started with this.
Too bad the Romans killed old Saint Nick on a crucifix.
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when science proves religion to be wrong, then I will feel pity for those whos lives have been wasted, and they feel the deep sense of loss from knowing they have been living a lie. Or alternatively, the religious dude will just slightly amend their theories, make up some new way around science and make excuses for why they are still right.
I personally have never met a mormon, not big in my country and had no view of them up until this point. I find it one of the most arrogant annoying religions I have ever come across. I am tought religious tolerance and so I have no problem with you choosing to beleive these lies, but the fact is that you have such a
Troglodyte
Holier-than thou
attitude just seems to hack me off. Is their a single peice of proof to show mormonism is more true than any other religion. Hardcore proof other than some gut thought he could get some kicks by adapting Christiantity. Mormonism cannot be a branch of Christianity if it believes in more than one god, it breaks down the very core of the religion.
Coming to my final point, what proof is their for any religion. No jury could ascertain that something happened without evidence. Yet this is exactly what religion does. It is without proof. There is by the day more and more proof of it\'s non-existance (which will of course be ignored or denied by religious folk) yet never any proof of a divinity.
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Originally posted by Disc 2
when science proves religion to be wrong, then I will feel pity for those whos lives have been wasted, and they feel the deep sense of loss from knowing they have been living a lie. Or alternatively, the religious dude will just slightly amend their theories, make up some new way around science and make excuses for why they are still right.
I personally have never met a mormon, not big in my country and had no view of them up until this point. I find it one of the most arrogant annoying religions I have ever come across. I am tought religious tolerance and so I have no problem with you choosing to beleive these lies, but the fact is that you have such a
attitude just seems to hack me off. Is their a single peice of proof to show mormonism is more true than any other religion. Hardcore proof other than some gut thought he could get some kicks by adapting Christiantity. Mormonism cannot be a branch of Christianity if it believes in more than one god, it breaks down the very core of the religion.
Coming to my final point, what proof is their for any religion. No jury could ascertain that something happened without evidence. Yet this is exactly what religion does. It is without proof. There is by the day more and more proof of it\'s non-existance (which will of course be ignored or denied by religious folk) yet never any proof of a divinity.
Not to say anything that you probably haven’t already heard but, Christianity is based on faith . The essence of believing it without having to see it.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
I\'m sick and tiered of their "Holier-than thou" attitude,
Do you mean how we know without a shadow of a doubt that this church is true, and that all the other churches in the world have lost a lot of things from the day when Christ started his church on the earth 2000 years ago? I don\'t think that makes us holier than anyone, so I don\'t know what you\'re talking about. Yes, we believe that we have a greater understanding of the "big picture" than all other religions out there, but Mormons can be just as big of sinners as anyone else in the world even with our knowledge.
their selfish belief that they can be God
When you have children, don\'t you want them to have everything that you have? That is how our father is with us. He loves us and wants us to grow up and be as successful as he is.
and the freakin\' belief that if you don\'t get married you get shafted, and that women are screwed because there aren\'t enough men.
I think you missed something here. First of all, both the women and the men have to be married in order to go to the highest degree in the celestial kingdom. The men don\'t automatically get to go to heaven. And second of all, since when is living with God for eternity being "shafted?" I thought that\'s what you believe is the #1 goal. If you don\'t get married, and you still go to the celestial kingdom, you will become an angel.
I can\'t possibly believe that there is no true Hell, and that Heaven has "levels."
I also believe that there is a true hell. Living out of the presence of our God for eternity, and never being able to progress is Hell. And there is also the "Outer Darkness," a place that only a few people go who have seen Christ or God yet still denied their existence. If that\'s not Hell I don\'t know what is.
Honestly I think that some major mis-interpretation of the Bible has taken place.
Yep, which is why you are having such a hard time believing our beliefs. You have studied and believed the Bible for quite a while (I\'m not sure how long you\'ve been religious, but you are obviously very knowledgeable about religion), so of course it will be hard to accept that those bibles have been translated by man who wanted to create their own church, and in turn, altered some of the things to their liking.
I\'m sure none of this will affect you because of the "Mormon thick skull brainwashing." And wehatever you say probably won\'t change my hardening towards your religion.
You assume way too much. You are assuming that I grew up in the church a "Molly Mormon" following all the commandments and believing what my parents and teachers told me. I don\'t want to get into detail here, but I do want to say that that isn\'t the case. I have found out on my own that this church is completely true after years of being lost (I hate using the word "lost" because it sounds so lame, but I can\'t think of any other way of saying it). It is the only true church on this earth -- something that I have found out through personal revelation.
I\'m sorry, I\'ve tried since the first big religion thread to see some good out of Mormonism, I\'ve talked to Mormons, looked through the Book of Mormon, put up with y\'alls bantering. But my open mind has been hardened by the utter crap I\'ve seen.
You have tried so hard to understand us Mormons, yet you still haven\'t done the one thing that will confirm to you that this church is true. Why waste your time trying to understand us when you are completely ignoring one of the most important things. You won\'t believe any of our religion\'s beliefs until you get a confirmation that the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith are true. And the only way to know that is by reading the Book of Mormon, then asking God if it is true with "a sincere heart, with real intent, [and] having faith in Christ."
It is my belief that if you accept the sacrifices of Christ, or that you follow the ten commandments to the "T," that you will be accepted into the kingdom of God.
So all we have to do is believe that Christ died for our sins, and keep 10 commandments that were made a few thousand years ago, and we will be saved? What if God wanted you to do something else? What if he brought new laws and commandments for us to follow along with the old ones? Would you just ignore that and stick with the old commandments made for people who were living a few thousand years ago, or would you accept the new laws and follow them too? Here is a scripture that goes along with that: (I don\'t know why, but I think these scriptures are pretty humorous)
2 Nephi, 29: 3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
BTW, I don\'t understand, do you believe in a religion or do you just believe in the Bible and that there is no true religion on this earth?
I guess we\'ll have to wait for our bodies to release our souls. I\'ll see you in Heaven, when we can finally prove who is right, and who was misled by the misunderstandings caused by our puny little brains.
You don\'t have to wait for anything. You can find out right now.
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OK.... This thread is starting to get stupid.
Let\'s just all agree that none of us can proove anything.
We are all just arguing about who\'s "Fairytale" is correct.
NOBODY HERE KNOWS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS REALITY AND THAT\'S A FACT
SNAP OUT OF IT GUYS
Let\'s all agree that we are all a part of the same reality, and nothing that we believe in is going to change that reality.
Let\'s start our own religion right here, right now.
Our religion just respects the fact that there is a solid reality going on all around us.
We can all pay our respects to the reality without naming it or trying to put a face on it.
We are all a part of the reality and therefore belong to the same religion!
This way we love who or whatever is out there and we honor it\'s existance together as a UNIT LIVING IN THE SAME REALITY!!!
The reality can also be the Macro & Micro physics that run the Universe for those people who want to respect science as their reality.
LET\'S DO THIS NOW AND HERE IN THE FORUMS OUR RELIGION WILL GROW!!!!
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This thread got a rating! I didn\'t think that the rating system worked. Well, cool I guess. :)
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Open your mind a little bit. The 9 planets orbiting around the Sun are not the only planets in the universe. What you are asking about is what we call the Plan of Salvation. Here is a breef summery.
Whoops. You misunderstood me. I was being wise with you. I know and always knew that there are planets everywhere. I was just saying that there are people living on the 8 other planets in our star system.
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Oh, ok. It\'s hard to tell on the internet if people are just being smart, or if they really don\'t know though. :)
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damn this thread actually got a rating.
who did that?
and all i got to say about being a mormon is orgazmo was a funny movie.
carry on.
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Fu@k !
The bible is evil, the people that wrote it were fu@ked up on drugs. Religion is a divider, and it causes war. Just belive in the all powerful american Dollar, and all will be fine :laughing:
Oh yeah, noah once dated a T-Rex, they had sex, and that is how we have chickens.
Santa is real, along with the easter bunny.
I think the bible should have its own section in the bookstore, under brainWashing.
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Originally posted by IronFist
Oh, ok. It\'s hard to tell on the internet if people are just being smart, or if they really don\'t know though. :)
Ah yes, that\'s what we really should be arguing about - casual sarcasm on the internet :)
But yeah, this thread was only cool when Videoholic was goona make a Sports Religion, that would have owned.
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by Toxical
Oh yeah, noah once dated a T-Rex, they had sex, and that is how we have chickens.
B]
You\'ve just become my favorite member here! This is the first laugh from this thread from me that wasn\'t because of the mislead Mormons. Thanks Toxical, I needed that.
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Originally posted by ROL Jamas
But yeah, this thread was only cool when Videoholic was goona make a Sports Religion, that would have owned.
You mean this thread was only cool up until the second post? ;)
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Originally posted by luckee
Chruch on sundays is a evil plan by women to make men go to hell. Ever notice that football games and lots of other kinds of races are on sundays.
I read that in another forum..but it is sooo true :D
To think, this was the post that began this thread of arguments and debates that has defined many of those that participated. Some believe in "religion", some in "agnosticism", and some believe in... Ah, whoa am I trying to kid, this thread is old and should be put down like a lame horse!
We all think differently, that I have learned. I also can say that many of these people impressed me by not bashing people for what they believe. But on the other side of it, there was a lot of "richard-heads" out there that couldn’t look past there own nose to see another point of view. Well with that said, I\'m off. This thread needs to be closed before any one of our heads explodes from the amount of thinking that goes on in here. *grabs bottle of Excedrin* Man my head hurts!
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Christianity focuses on the beleifs of one god. If Mormons beleive in more than one god, how can they be Christians?
Any answers?
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Originally posted by Disc 2
Christianity focuses on the beleifs of one god. If Mormons beleive in more than one god, how can they be Christians?
Any answers?
Christianity focuses on Christ, not on there being only one God. We believe in the same Chirst as almost every other Christian Church believes in. He is the one who came down here and took upon himself the sins and sorrows of every one of God\'s children. And he is the one who was resurrected after three days and will come again in the second coming.
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we sent people to the moon, we have lasers, and DVD\'s, yet we believe fiction writen thousands of years ago. Why ?
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Originally posted by Toxical
Why ?
Just in case.
-Eik
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Originally posted by Eiksirf
Just in case.
-Eik
In case of what?? Either way we are dead, nothing pyshical will be able to hurt us. Mentally is a different stroy if a *afterlife* does exsist, but then again, if *GOD* forgives us all, how come some *goto hell*?
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Originally posted by luckee
In case of what?? Either way we are dead, nothing pyshical will be able to hurt us. Mentally is a different stroy if a *afterlife* does exsist, but then again, if *GOD* forgives us all, how come some *goto hell*?
Nobody goes to hell, and we dont\' need to go to confession too. It\'s just some bullsh!t invented to scare us, and to make us tell our little dirty secrets to the fat bastards in the black uniforms. And that goes to any religion, not just Christians. Religion is evil ! repent, science is the only way !:laughing:
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Originally posted by Toxical
Nobody goes to hell, and we dont\' need to go to confession too. It\'s just some bullsh!t invented to scare us, and to make us tell our little dirty secrets to the fat bastards in the black uniforms. And that goes to any religion, not just Christians. Religion is evil ! repent, science is the only way !:laughing:
thats kinda the point I was trying to get across :)
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Wow, I am glad I avoided this thread over the past few days.
What I have found out over the past two pages:
1 People hate and fear Mormons because we believe we are the only church with the fullness of the gospel.
2 Taking things out of context could be an event in the olympics, and Troglodyte and Titan would be equally Gold medal winners.
3 Points aren\'t proven through bantering.
4 People cannot do a simple task that someone else ASSURES them will come to pass. (ie: reading the book of mormon with an open mind (something that should be easy for those of you thread read all the replies of this thread))
5 People are scared of the truth (ie: see #4)
Both IronFist and I have promised you guys something when nobody else in the thread promised you anything. Read the Book of Mormon with an open mind. It isn\'t really that hard. You can even check them out of the Library if you believe we will track you if you call us up. I hope at least that stays with you. All you guys out there have said that religion is all based on faith and there is nothing to prove to you of it\'s validity. Read the Book of Mormon with an open mind and there won\'t be a doubt in your mind about it\'s truthfulness.
Eric Jacob
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I\'ve for one, years ago, read the Bible(the new and old testaments, King James, and again the old testament Law-Prophets-Writings with a hebrew translation), the book of mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants (JC church of latter-day saints), the Koran (teachings of Islam), the Tao-te-ching (The Way and it\'s Power - Chinese, taoism, living free of desire), and the Veda (Hinduism). I tried to read them all with an open mind.
1) I still get phonecalls from the JCCoLDS, about the bible, book of mormon, and doctrine books they sent me (for free). I get a visit every two months or so from a couple of like-aged boys who want to talk to me about my religeon (or lack thereof ....). This leads me into point....
2) After studying many of the worlds major religeons, I came to the following conclusion, which I have maintained for the last 4-5 years or so.
I believe that ALL the religeons are simmilar, in that they use (untrue, mythical, or exagerated) stories to get good, strong points across. Usually these points are about good morals, life lessons, or faith. All of which I have, without any organized religeon, by the way.
I believe that non of the religeons have satisfactorally explained to me the role of GOD(s), or why he would choose to create us, give us free will, and not make certain things, like religeon, a clear choice. I believe if I lead a normal, moral life, without, say, absolving of my sins (for lack of a better word) to a church, person, or God(s), I will still be good in the eyes of God(s). If there is an afterlife (who knows?), then I believe I will reach \'heaven\' or whatever you consider the final resting place of the faithfull.
I want to make this clear, I don\'t believe in God(s), I don\'t disbelieve in God(s). I don\'t pray, but I don\'t mind being around those who do. I do believe that there are forces in the universe far greater than any of our comprehensions. That is my faith.
As I said, I\'ve had long talks about this point of view with many devout people, of many faiths, but even so, I\'ve never been satisfactorally answered by any of the organized religeous practices. As such, I doubt I can change your wourld views, and I doubt you can change mine, but I wanted to express this opinion.
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Altered Beast....I don\'t fear or hate the Mormons. Not at all. Please don\'t make those assumptions. Just coz I find your "Latter Day Saints bible" to be a bit contrived from the writings of Joseph Smith\'s belief that there was some holy-history in South America, does not mean I fear or hate mormons.
I just think it\'s a cult that got extremely popular, which by now is not quite within the definitions of cultism...but then again, Sun Young Moon is also vast yet still considered a cult, so maybe the word still applies to Mormons. And Mormons have among the highest rate of suicides, second only to Jehova\'s Witness. Utah also has the highest suicide rate, home state of the Mormons.
Some Mormons don\'t even dance. At least the ones I went to high school with. Some of you won\'t even marry others of different religions.
I don\'t hate or fear you. And I do have an open mind. Reading the Book of Mormons is too far fetched, even for a religious person like me.
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i wonder how many times the phrase "open mind" has been used in this thread.
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I totally agree with FatalXception, my next endevor spiritually is to learn more about western religions, which I\'ll be doing in May at school.
Altered, I\'ve read the Book of Mormon, I\'ve prayed about it, and I still think it\'s crap. You say "open mind," but in all truth, you have not shown at all throughout this thread that you yourself have an open mind. Your condemnation of others is a sign of ignorance.
Nobody can be 100% sure, it\'s not humanly possible.
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Why do we have to worship, our creator, is this some sick joke, I am open minded, but really can\'t we just live our lives, if we are gods people than what ever we do is mostly good, so in all religions=corruption of christianity, look at all those dirty priests.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Just coz I find your "Latter Day Saints bible" to be a bit contrived from the writings of Joseph Smith\'s belief that there was some holy-history in South America, does not mean I fear or hate mormons.
What exactly is so contrived about it? You said that you hadn\'t even read it, so what are you basing that assumption on?
I just think it\'s a cult that got extremely popular, which by now is not quite within the definitions of cultism...but then again, Sun Young Moon is also vast yet still considered a cult, so maybe the word still applies to Mormons.
How is the LDS church different than any other Christian church? (talking about "cults", not about beliefs). If you were to consider the LDS church a cult, then you would have to do the same to every other church out there.
Utah also has the highest suicide rate, home state of the Mormons.
Nice try dude, but can you give us a source? I\'ve got one, so unless your source is better than mine, what you said was BS.
http://www.iusb.edu/~jmcintos/SuicideStates.html
From the years 1990 to 1999, these are Utah\'s suicidal rankings compared to the rest of the states:
10 7 12 16 10 13 13 12 9 15
Overall, Utah is in 10th place for suicides. That is definitely not something to be proud of, but it is far from "the highest suicide rate." I can only imagine that the "Mormon\'s have the second highest suicide rate in the world" is not true either, but if you\'ve got the source to back it up, then go ahead and post it.
EDIT: I just want to mention that when I first searched the web for suicide information, it brought up like 5 anti-Mormon sites claiming Utah had the highest suicidal rate, and using that as an argument against the Mormons. lol. Gotta love the anti-Mormons. ;)
Some Mormons don\'t even dance. At least the ones I went to high school with. Some of you won\'t even marry others of different religions.
A lot of those Mormons have good reasons not to dance. I\'m sure that you\'ve noticed that a lot of boys go to dances with the intention of getting some action later on. If you want to dance with them, then you will probably have to earn their trust first.
And of course we won\'t marry outside of our religion. I\'ve got two reasons why. 1. Most of those marriages don\'t work out, and the Mormon is usually dragged down trying to pull their spouse up. (Not all of them of course, but most of them). 2. If they are not of the same faith, then they obviously can\'t get married in the temple for eternity. That goes against what I would consider as one of our church\'s most important beliefs, and IMO is down right stupid to do so.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
I totally agree with FatalXception, my next endevor spiritually is to learn more about western religions, which I\'ll be doing in May at school.
You totally agree with FatalXception, yet later on you call the Book of Mormon crap. Even FatalXception found some good in it, so what you said was a little inconsistent.
I have a feeling that your bias against us Mormons is causing you to read the Book of Mormon with the intention of finding things wrong with it instead of actually reading it with an open mind and giving it a chance. It seems to me (of course, correct me if I\'m wrong) that you have decided the BOM is false even before starting to read it. Also, if you don\'t mind me asking, to what extent have you read it? Earlier in this thread you said that you "looked through the Book of Mormon." Now you are saying that you have read it. To me those are two very different things.
I do not understand how you can read multiple bibles, which often contradict each other and even sometimes themselves, and still believe in them and follow their council, yet you think the BOM is complete crap. The Book of Mormon is "another testament of Christ"; another book containing words from old prophets of God that supports the Bible and has a lot of the same content as the Bible does. How can one be crap and the others be true when they contain a lot of the same things? Do the differences in the different Bible\'s make you think they are crap? So why would the BOM be any different? I\'m sure you can understand my confusion. Also, do you believe in the LDS Bible (the KJV Bible with the Joseph Smith Translations), or do you think that is crap too?
Nobody can be 100% sure, it\'s not humanly possible.
I am 100% sure, so yes, it is humanly possible.
Project86:
Originally posted by project86 up at the top of this page
We all think differently, that I have learned. I also can say that many of these people impressed me by not bashing people for what they believe. But on the other side of it, there was a lot of "richard-heads" out there that couldn’t look past there own nose to see another point of view.
I can\'t help but think that "richard-heads" comment was directed at me, but only because of how Troglodyte has been portraying me ("Holier than thou attitude") and my beliefs ("most selfish, self-centered religion out there.") I think this deserves some clarification.
First of all, I have not bashed anyone for their beliefs. As a matter of fact, I have been encouraging other people to post their beliefs so I could get a better understanding of not only who they are, but of what different people around the world believe in. I sometimes ask specific things about other peoples\' views on things, but other times, I just post things about my beliefs in hopes of someone replying with their views on the matter, and in turn, having a discussion about it. Unfortunately, things do not always go exactly as planned. Instead of people responding to my beliefs with beliefs of their own (not everyone, but some people in the last couple of pages), they just insulted them.
The same thing happened with RACER earlier in this thread. He was laughed at for having different beliefs as the majority of posters at that time, which unfortunately made him leave.
And I can see other people\'s point of view, but that doesn\'t mean I have to accept them. In fact, almost everybody here has posted their point of view, from the people who think religion as a whole is a crock, to the people who believe in religious ideas but not in religion itself, to the people who have found what they believe to be the only true religion, and just because they are not accepting other people\'s beliefs does not mean that they are not seeing them.
And going along with your general statement about how this thread has come a long way since it started, I want to thank everyone who has been participating so far (Yes, even Troglodyte even though he hates my religion). The wealth of knowledge I have obtained because of this thread is immeasurable. Not only did I learn things about other people\'s beliefs in this thread, but this thread caused me to go out and look around the internet for even more information. If it wasn\'t for this thread, I probably never would have known about how our church is hated by so many people (I\'m talking about the anti-Mormon sites on the web), and would have been shocked when I went on my mission. But now thanks to you guys I feel more prepared than I ever could have if this thread didn\'t exist. Thank you, everyone! I hope this thread continues to grow with more ideas and perspectives, and I hope that the size of this thread doesn\'t scare off newcomers. ;)
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IronFist
Originally posted by IronFist
I have a feeling that your bias against us Mormons is causing you to read the Book of Mormon with the intention of finding things wrong with it instead of actually reading it with an open mind and giving it a chance. It seems to me (of course, correct me if I\'m wrong) that you have decided the BOM is false even before starting to read it. Also, if you don\'t mind me asking, to what extent have you read it? Earlier in this thread you said that you "looked through the Book of Mormon." Now you are saying that you have read it. To me those are two very different things.
I do not understand how you can read multiple bibles, which often contradict each other and even sometimes themselves, and still believe in them and follow their council, yet you think the BOM is complete crap. The Book of Mormon is "another testament of Christ"; another book containing words from old prophets of God that supports the Bible and has a lot of the same content as the Bible does. How can one be crap and the others be true when they contain a lot of the same things? Do the differences in the different Bible\'s make you think they are crap? So why would the BOM be any different? I\'m sure you can understand my confusion. Also, do you believe in the LDS Bible (the KJV Bible with the Joseph Smith Translations), or do you think that is crap too?
I read the Book of Mormon over Christmas break, back in the day when I was really interested in learning about Mormonism, see the other religion thread for reference. I "read" it without bias. I wasn\'t able to read all of it, so I went to some Mormon sites for some "highlights."
The different versions of the Bible do not contradict themselves. They are simply different specific-word translations. This is why I can\'t understand why you are so gun-ho over the KJV. I have a Mormon friend that said that her church might as well use NIV, but it\'s just personal preference, and easier if the entire church uses a "standard" version. That doesn\'t mean she won\'t even consider different word-translations.
Please don\'t assume. I tried not to read the Book of Mormon without bias, and I never said that the KJV was crap, I said the Book of Mormon is crap. As for the LDS KJV, that adds/takes away messages from the original scrolls. That\'s not cool.
I don\'t hate Mormonism, I hate terrorists. I just think that Mormons have the most whacked-out religion.
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From NIH :
For more than 10 years, 15- to 34-year-old males in Utah have had suicide rates markedly higher than those seen nationally. In fact, in the early to mid-1990s, suicide was the number one cause of death among 25- to 44-year-old men in the state and the second-leading cause of death among men aged 15 to 24.
And for the record, religious folks who adhere to their religion are less likely to commit suicides. Yet the states surrounding Utah also have a high rate (although Nevada I can understand with all those Casinos breaking people\'s bank accounts :D ), if you noticed from your own source, ironfist. Quite possibly, many of them are Mormons. Though I do\'t have the time to look for the statistics right now.
And yes, Joseph Smith did make up his own Bible. Unlike the real Bible, there are no evidence to back up Joe Smith\'s claim to authenticate his Book of Mormons. What? Gold plates given to him by angels? Hehehe....are we allowed to see that? Gold plates. Wow. The Dead Sea Scrolls was written on sheep skin scrolls and found by a sheppard last century in a cave. Scientifically dated to around the time of Christ. Some after and some before. Plus, there are other cultures who have written history that coincide with what was written in the Bible. Example : Pilot....Roman prefict of Israel. His stone tablet was found and confirmed to be authentic. His name was mentioned in the Bible, of course, you know that. But what about the Book of Mormons? What have you got to confirm its authenticity?
Nothing.
Faith? We all have faith. I\'m religious too. But mainly coz historical facts do support some of the things that happened in the Bible. Even the description of Goliath\'s battle with David, there are some subtle clues to Goliath\'s medical condition : an enlarged pituitary gland that led to gigantism. The enlarged glang puts pressure on the frontal lobe of the brain and eyes, causing him to have tunnel vision. That explains why David was able to sneak in so close to Goliath, by not walking within direct sight of Goliath. The single rock to his head killed him, why? The enlarged pituitary gland had the brain under a lot of pressure so when the stone struck Goliath\'s skull, the impact probably cause severe hemmorage to the brain.
Let\'s see you come up with facts that support your Book of Mormons.
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that\'s not possible, GManJoe, anything I would throw in there that has any historical record would be thrown back at me with something to the effect of "Yeah, Joe Smith read that in some newspaper and threw it in the Book of Mormons, hahahaha, try again, Mormons." or if I said something with historical record that is also in the Bible, you would say "Joe Smith just read the real Bible and put it in the Book of Mormons, hahahaha! try again!"
You aren\'t looking for a real reason, nor a real answer to your question. Nothing I personally, nor IronFist could do would change yours or Troglodytes, or anyone else\'s for that matter opinions on Mormons.
We aren\'t Holier-than-thou elitists, although you may feel that way talking to many sheltered Mormons. We have the truth of the gospel and would like to share that with everyone in the world. If we were Holier than thou, we wouldn\'t try to convert everyone or teach everyone in the world, which we try to do, we would just sit back and feel sorry and condemn everyone forever, which we don\'t.
Holier than thou? Gimme a Break, our churches entire missionary philosophy is based around teaching people what we know to be true.
Eric Jacob
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Alright, here\'s what i think. I believe in god and such, but i don\'t have a certain religion. I think people take this stuff too far and should just live their life and have fun. Try not to get too caught up in religion.
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Well, at least no one can say I go by blind faith alone. I\'m faithful...but I do seek answers to my own questions. Now...if I knew the location of the Holy Grail, Garden of Eden and the Ark of the Covenant.......gotta get my leather hat and whip! :D
PSSST! The Ark of the Covenant is probably in Etheopia! But don\'t tell anyone! :p
PS There ~was~ a Santa Claus. But he was an old Bishop who was crucified by the Romans in what is now Turkey. His name was Nicholas. The Germans call him Sinter Klause. So now you know!
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Nothing I personally, nor IronFist could do would change yours or Troglodytes, or anyone else\'s for that matter opinions on Mormons.
Likewise, nothing we say will change your mind. Religion really does start wars, even tiny internet ones.
Oh, and it\'s Ethiopia GmanJoe.
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Originally posted by IronFist
And he is the one who was resurrected after three days and will come again in the second coming.
Damn, I don\'t go on over the weekend and it is up to page 19. Damn. TO reply to Iron\'s reply, don\'t you believe Christ came a second time to the Aztechs? I remember you said so.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Likewise, nothing we say will change your mind. Religion really does start wars, even tiny internet ones.
Oh, and it\'s Ethiopia GmanJoe.
Oops. I mithpelled. :p
Humans start wars. Religion is like patriotism or nationalism. They\'re good....until man\'s greed and arrogance takes over. Hell....look at those soccer games. The fans will kill opposing fans over a simple game of soccer. Is soccer bad? No.
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GmanJoe
And yes, Joseph Smith did make up his own Bible. Unlike the real Bible, there are no evidence to back up Joe Smith\'s claim to authenticate his Book of Mormons. What? Gold plates given to him by angels? Hehehe....are we allowed to see that? Gold plates. Wow. The Dead Sea Scrolls was written on sheep skin scrolls and found by a sheppard last century in a cave. Scientifically dated to around the time of Christ. Some after and some before. Plus, there are other cultures who have written history that coincide with what was written in the Bible. Example : Pilot....Roman prefict of Israel. His stone tablet was found and confirmed to be authentic. His name was mentioned in the Bible, of course, you know that. But what about the Book of Mormons? What have you got to confirm its authenticity?
So you believe in the bible based on evidences of its truthfulness instead of faith? I thought all religions were based on faith instead of proof.
We do have the Holy Ghost who confirms the Book of Mormon\'s truthfulness, but most likely you won\'t give that a chance. So here are some things that could be used as proof that the Book of Mormon is real.
- "The Land of Jerusalem" - A fatal blunder??
(This is just a summary of what the site says. Click on the link at the end of my post to read more about "The Land of Jerusalem.")
The Book of Mormon states that Jesus was born in "The Land of Jerusalem." Because we all know that Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem, Joseph Smith is obviously an idiot, right? Not quite. This phrase that not even the Bible contains has recently been found as an accurate phrase from the time around Christ. This exact phrase was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, as well as some other recently discovered ancient documents. It means the area around Jerusalem, including Bethlehem.
Now ask yourself, how could someone in the 1820s know that weird detail unless they were translating from an ancient Book that was given to him by God? He obviously could not have gotten that info anywhere else, because it was not discovered on this world until recently.
- Writing on Metal Plates? And Title pages at the end instead of the beginning?
This is a direct quote from the link below:
Absolutely laughable in 1830, now not only well established as an ancient practice, but as a particularly significant ancient practice in the Middle East in the era of 600 B.C. - especially for religious documents. Most significant, perhaps, is the ancient practice of "scriptorio" - putting the title page at the END of the book, something which is a hallmark of ancient writings on plates from the Middle East, and which is also strong evidence of authenticity for the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith could not have known of "scriptorio" when he translated the gold plates and noted that the title page was at the end, on the last page.
- Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon
You will definitely want to read this one. Follow the link this guy gives in this paragraph, because IMO, it truely is amazing.
A recent discovery is that ancient Middle Eastern poetry - including the Bible - often used a poetical form called chiasmus, a form of parallelism in which key ideas are structured in a mirror image reflective form such as A,B,C,C\',B\',A\'. Some of the most powerful and beautiful examples of this ancient form are found in the Book of Mormon (first discovered in 1967 by John Welch). The importance of chiasmus in ancient Semitic writings has only been recognized in this century, and still today very few educated people have ever heard of it. Its strong presence in the Book of Mormon is evidence that its writers possessed an ancient Semitic literary tradition, as the Book of Mormon claims, and (in my opinion) single-handedly refutes the claim that the Book of Mormon is the product of a 19th century writer (though there are numerous other factors that refute such a claim). Alma 36 is a classic example. For details - fascinating evidence that the Book of Mormon is an authentic ancient document - see my new "Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon" (http://www.jefflindsay.com/chiasmus.shtml) page.
How could a farmer boy with a fourth grade education write such an advanced form of Chiasmus poetry? My answer: he couldn\'t.
I posted this link in this thread already, but you probably missed it:
http://www.jefflindsay.com/BMEvidences.shtml -- this is where I got the info above from. It contains a lot more evidences than what I posted, and also goes into detail about some of the things I posted above, so go ahead and read it. It gives accurate landmarks that were not discovered until recently that fit the Book of Mormon\'s description of them perfectly, as well as many other things that Joseph Smith himself could not have known.
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This thread should be closed. :D
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*laughs at ironfist*
You guys also believe that Jesus was a polygamist! Three wives? BWAHAHAHAHA!
This is too easy! :laughing: You can\'t debate with me.
Have fun at your next End of Earth Day jamboree! :D
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Originally posted by Vapor Snake
This thread should be closed. :D
Stop that stuff, this is actually a decent thread to read in here for once.
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Originally posted by Vapor Snake
This thread should be closed. :D
Is this your first post in the thread? Why would you want it closed? It\'s a discussion between several people. No one is bashing anyone and it\'s a huge thread. Unbelievable.
Anyone find the arc yet? Just checking.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
Anyone find the arc yet? Just checking.
Nope. I did find Jimmy Hoffa and the Loch Ness monster. :)
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
We aren\'t Holier-than-thou elitists, although you may feel that way talking to many sheltered Mormons. We have the truth of the gospel and would like to share that with everyone in the world. If we were Holier than thou, we wouldn\'t try to convert everyone or teach everyone in the world, which we try to do, we would just sit back and feel sorry and condemn everyone forever, which we don\'t.
Holier than thou? Gimme a Break, our churches entire missionary philosophy is based around teaching people what we know to be true.
Eric Jacob
I didn\'t really want to involve myself in why I disagree with so many of the major religeons, but here you have put in the crux of the issue. You DON\'T KNOW it to be true, but you believe it with every possible fibre of your bieng. Your faith is (hopefully), absolute, and you will stand by it, defending it. My problem, however, with almost all the major religeons is that though they don\'t have indisputable facts or words (if they were indisputable, 100% of the world would follow one religeon), the people who strongly believe in them will say that they KNOW things that they really BELIEVE. They want others to be a part of their religeon (there are exceptions, such as buddism).
That is why I chose a path of faith, without any trappings of religeon. No church, no praying, no fasting, etc. When I was looking for my faith at 18, I was prepared to have any of the religeons stand out when I read about them, and attempted some of their practices. None did so.
You meet with an Orthodox Jew, and a devout Muslim, and all of you will believe in your religion 100%, and will believe that the others are following the wrong path. My belief is that it won\'t matter. You all have faith. Good for you, just live life by the morals it teaches, and don\'t try and pressure others into your church\'s trappings.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
*laughs at ironfist*
You guys also believe that Jesus was a polygamist! Three wives? BWAHAHAHAHA!
This is too easy! :laughing: You can\'t debate with me.
Have fun at your next End of Earth Day jamboree! :D
Um, do you mind clarifying a little bit? It is not known by our or any other Christian church if Christ was married on this earth or not. Why are you laughing at me? Also, don\'t spread rumors about my church.
And what did you think of the link I gave you?
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I can\'t believe this thread is still going, it\'s a monster I tell you, a damn monster.
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Originally posted by theomen
I can\'t believe this thread is still going, it\'s a monster I tell you, a damn monster.
It wasn\'t supposed to be, but *SOME* ppl here have no sense of humor. Remember the topic post? :)
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Originally posted by luckee
It wasn\'t supposed to be, but *SOME* ppl here have no sense of humor. Remember the topic post? :)
Yeah I remember the original topic, I like to refer to it as the "good old times", when the world was a fun and inocent place.
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Originally posted by theomen
Yeah I remember the original topic, I like to refer to it as the "good old times", when the world was a fun and inocent place.
I honestly think we can be that way again. Somewhat carefree anyway.
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Note the, :D , usually means I\'m joking.
And religous threads always get this long. Every forum I\'ve been to has its religion thread.
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Originally posted by Vapor Snake
And religous threads always get this long. Every forum I\'ve been to has its religion thread.
heheh, i\'ve noticed that too, in EVERY other forum I visit that this subject has come up in.
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GmanJoe:
And for the record, religious folks who adhere to their religion are less likely to commit suicides. Yet the states surrounding Utah also have a high rate (although Nevada I can understand with all those Casinos breaking people\'s bank accounts ), if you noticed from your own source, ironfist. Quite possibly, many of them are Mormons. Though I do\'t have the time to look for the statistics right now.
Maybe it\'s something in the mountain water? ;)
But if it truly was because of the Mormons that the mountain states have the highest suicide rate in the country, wouldn\'t it make sense for Utah to be in the number one spot instead of number 10? (Pardon my ignorance, but I don\'t know what NIH is, so I don\'t know how credible your source is. Also, your source isn\'t taking into account every age group.) I couldn\'t say what the cause of the suicides are, but I don\'t think you can either with the limited info that you have.
Titan:
TO reply to Iron\'s reply, don\'t you believe Christ came a second time to the Aztechs? I remember you said so.
Yes. Our church believes that after Christ was resurrected he went over to the Americas. There, he set up his church. Unfortunately, the people apostatized, the apostles died (many by murder), and Christ\'s true church was lost. In the 1820s, Christ and God the Father appeared to Joseph Smith. That is when what we believe to be Christ\'s church, the same church that was organized back when Christ visited the Americas, was brought back to this earth. Our church, like most Christian churches, also believes that Christ will return to this world in what we call the second coming.
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doesn\'t Oregon hvae the highest suicide rate in the US? I know Seattle is the highest city, probably from that gloomy weather all the damn time.
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Well i posted on this at the start and am surprised its still goin strong. This is easily the biggest thread i\'ve ever seen, i think i lost track back on page 2 or 3 :rolleyes:
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GManJoe, good job doing exactly what I said you would do.
IronFist presented historical accuracy and reference from the Book of Mormon and what do you do??? Totally ignore it and make up some crap about our church.
What is your deal anyway? Where do you get this passion from?
But that was pretty swift, no really.
Eric Jacob
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tsk tsk.....Mormons..... http://www.dci.dk/engelsk/elefant/mormon.html
Each of these spirits requires a body in order to develop into a god. This problem was put before the gods\' assembly in which Elohim\'s two eldest sons were present also. It was suggested that the planet Earth should be created in order to provide a place where the many spirits were to be given a trial period to experience life on Earth in human bodies.
Lucifer, since he wanted to deprive man of his freedom of action, suggested himself as the saviour of this new planet and its inhabitants. Jesus, on the other hand, claimed that man should be given the right to choose between salvation and damnation. At the following voting, the gods acceded to Jesus\' suggestion.
Furiously, Lucifer instigated a riot and persuaded one third of the spirits to join him. In doing so, he became Satan and his followers became demons who were denied the possibility of acquiring physical bodies. During the ensuing riot, the less courageous spirits were cursed with black skin on Earth – and in this way the Negro race came about.
Here\'s the link to Mormon\'s claim that Jesus was a polygamist. :D
http://christiandefense.com/mor_jesus_poly.htm
And NIH = National Institute of Health.
Right now, I am very busy at work. I had only 15 minutes to find these links....but here there are.
This is all too easy. :)
Have fun, Alter-boy!....wait.....you can\'t be. :D
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huh???
Those aren\'t LDS sites, and are instead horribly slanted and skewed LDS beliefs.
We do not believe that Jesus was a polygamist. If a site says that (especially one called ChristianBelief) than it is a site without any basis most likely.
point of fact: most sites with full range LDS information, as with most books available to the public, say at Barnes and Noble, will have an incredible amount of made up beliefs, and many times (sadly) a negative slant to them.
try again buddy. Still no acknowledgement to historical evidence found in the Book of Mormon? Just like every anti-mormon site out there, like I said on like page 5 or something. Everytime something is disproved, anti-mormons, instead of acknowleding they were wrong, merely move onto the next baseless bashing.
Eric Jacob
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Aknowledgement of what? None of you have provided anything except "Oh, how could Joe Smith know this and that?".
Puhleez.
Hell, even the Smithsonian Institute is irritated that you guys keep fabricating your own "historical facts" by using their good name.
Facts : Quetzelcuatl was an Aztec god that could turn into a serpent. Also known as "Morning Star". "Lucifer" is Greek for "Bringer of Light"....aka "Morning Star". Quetz. was not Jesus as some of you believe.
Oops. And there you have it.
Stop down playing the facts.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Furiously, Lucifer instigated a riot and persuaded one third of the spirits to join him. In doing so, he became Satan and his followers became demons who were denied the possibility of acquiring physical bodies. During the ensuing riot, the less courageous spirits were cursed with black skin on Earth – and in this way the Negro race came about.
Thats gay! I dont believe that sh*t about the black skin!!!
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Thats really racist GmanJoe.....
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Originally posted by cloud345
Thats really racist GmanJoe.....
Yes, it\'s racist. And I didn\'t make it up. So point that finger at someone else.
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why do Mormons automatically assume everyone hates them? I don\'t agree with Mormonism (?) but I don\'t agree with any religion. btw, Christian beleif does state that there is only one god, and therefor Mormons are not Christians.
One more point before I go...no I have not read the book of Mormon, but I havn\'t read the K\'oran either, but I know enough to disbelive the Islamic religions as I disbeleive Christianity and everything else.
Science will eventually prove religion to be false
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GmanJoe:
:eek:
I honestly can\'t believe this GmanJoe. You are posting info about the LDS church that you have obtained from an obviously anti-Mormon site (as you can tell by the "The Mormon Mythology" and "True Christianity?" header on that site), yet you claim that is what we believe. I like to call that the "outsider" knows better than the "insider" fallacy, which obviously isn\'t the case. :rolleyes: I guess I\'ll refute what you posted by that site to clear things up.
Each of these spirits requires a body in order to develop into a god. This problem was put before the gods\' assembly in which Elohim\'s two eldest sons were present also. It was suggested that the planet Earth should be created in order to provide a place where the many spirits were to be given a trial period to experience life on Earth in human bodies.
Here is the first evidence (from what you have posted) that this site doesn\'t know what they\'re talking about. The planet Earth was not the only planet created by God. It is one of an innumerable amount. Planet Earth is the most wicked of all of God\'s planets though, which is why Christ was crucified on this planet instead of some other planet. We are the only ones wicked enough to crucify our own savior.
Lucifer, since he wanted to deprive man of his freedom of action, suggested himself as the saviour of this new planet and its inhabitants.
The reason for Lucifer wanting to be our savior was not to "deprive man of his freedom," but to get all the glory of saving us to himself. His plan was to deprive man of his freedom and force us to do good, but that is not the reason he wanted to be our savior.
Christ on the other hand wanted us to have a choice, and in turn, giving us the glory of making it back to God.
At the following voting, the gods acceded to Jesus\' suggestion.
There was no voting about it. Jesus\'s plan was God\'s plan. It was the plan that has been used forever. It is THE plan. Satan thought that he could have the glory to himself, so he made up his own plan. But of course, God being the all knowing God that he is, saw through Satan\'s plan.
Furiously, Lucifer instigated a riot and persuaded one third of the spirits to join him.
A riot? Um, where are they getting this info from? There was no riot, only one of the hardest choices we had ever made. We had to choose between our older brothers\' plans. We loved them both, which made this choice extremely hard. For those of you with two older brothers, if you had to choose to follow just one of them, don\'t you think it would be a difficult choice? Unfortunately 1/3 of all the spirits followed Satan.
In doing so, he became Satan and his followers became demons who were denied the possibility of acquiring physical bodies.
Demons? That is wrong. They are still spirits like they were in the premortal life.
During the ensuing riot, the less courageous spirits were cursed with black skin on Earth – and in this way the Negro race came about.
That is a lie. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believes what the Bible says, that Kane was the one who started the black race. The black people are not "less courageous spirits." The person who wrote that is extremely racist.
And GmanJoe, like I already said, stop spreading rumors about our church.
Also, about that polygamist thing, that site you got that from is even more anti Mormon than the first site you posted. It starts lying about our church in the third sentence when it says "to become a "God" the worthy male (NOT females) must first live as a "mortal" on earth." I am not going to read the whole site, because from that line I already know it is another BS anti-Mormon site.
Aknowledgement of what? None of you have provided anything except "Oh, how could Joe Smith know this and that?".
Puhleez.
You obviously didn\'t read that whole site. :rolleyes: You are not interested in how true LDS church is, you are only interested in bashing it.
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Disc 2:
Christian beleif does state that there is only one god, and therefor Mormons are not Christians.
Read this: http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/Christians.htm
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Strange that a lot of those sites are by ex-Mormons.
Anyway, you go ahead worship that book written by Joseph Smith who had like who knows how many wives, worship all the gods you want to worship. Maybe one day you\'ll have your own planet to rule as your own....hehehehe......that\'s funny!
I\'ve got the old Bible. I\'ll keep reading up on the new translations of the Dead Sea scrolls as they put more pieces together, while you can look at your fancy shmancy Gold Plates.
Jesus had a wooden cup yet Joseph Smith gets gold plates?
Anyway.....rule your planet with divine grace.....and may you have plenty of virgins to fulfill your every wish. After all, your religion allows it. :p
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Who gives a fu@k about this or that religion, same sh!t different paper ;)
You people want 5 ho\'s to call your wifes, go ahead, if others want to confess their **** to some SOB, fine by me.
Religion ranks up there with UFO\'s, Sasquatch/bigfoot, and the XFiles. :laughing:
Repent all ye sinner ! for you have comited acts of ignorance on the sciences ! lol
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Like 79.572% of mormon girls are finnnnnnnneeeeeee....
Just adding my two cents. :D
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GManJoe, congratulations, you have proved yourself to be more retarded than I previously thought.
Keep making up stuff, I think even anti-mormons could laugh at some of the stuff you make up.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Strange that a lot of those sites are by ex-Mormons.
Yes many of those sites are created by ex-Mormons, but compared to the total amount of anti-Mormon sites out there, the amount of anti-Mormon sites by ex-Mormons is relatively minuscule. And you have to understand why they are ex-Mormons. Many of them were ex-communicated. Others just couldn\'t live up to the beliefs of our church. And other have their own reasons for leaving that I or you don\'t know. But whether the sites are created by ex-Mormons or not does not make the information they post correct. Ex-Mormons can, and do, lie about our church just like any other anti-Mormon can.
Jesus had a wooden cup yet Joseph Smith gets gold plates?
I cannot start to comprehend why you are comparing these two things. This has relevance to anything HOW?
Hell, even the Smithsonian Institute is irritated that you guys keep fabricating your own "historical facts" by using their good name.
Where did you hear this from? Another anti-Mormon site? Can I get some details?
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
GManJoe, congratulations, you have proved yourself to be more retarded than I previously thought.
Keep making up stuff, I think even anti-mormons could laugh at some of the stuff you make up.
Eric Jacob
You\'re calling ME a retard? You\'re the one who\'s a Mormon, not me.
I\'d say I\'m smart and you\'re the \'tard.
Enjoy, alterboy! And you can\'t deny the deity thing your doctrine preaches about! Hehehe!
***************
And for Ironfist, you\'ll find the subject of Smithsonian Institute being mentioned on Mormon Apologetic sites(ie pro-Mormon) where they criticize the Smithsonian\'s letters of disapproval of Mormons saying that their anthropologists used the Book of Mormons as their guide when they went to South America! I\'ve got some Photoshop self-teaching to do so you look it up yerself, Okay, rusty?
And since you, rusty, can\'t see the point I made regarding Jesus\' wooden cup and Joseph Smith\'s golden plates....I\'ll explain.
Why would God, give any value to such trinkets like gold? When God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, they were written on stone tablets. When Jesus went about spreading His message, He had His sandals. Noah had to build his own ship, he didn\'t get much help from God except the demensions and what wood to use.
See my point? Why would God give Joe gold plates? It just doesn\'t fit. Is that why you all have gold plated spires on your temples? I know you do. My former co-worker who\'s an Elder told me they were.
No wonder so many people think Mormonism is a cult. Coz it is.
Enjoy your planets. Be nice to you minions.
Ta-ta! I need to skillsify my Photoshop prowess! :D
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You\'re calling ME a retard? You\'re the one who\'s a Mormon, not me.
and there you have it.
You aren\'t only stupid, but you are prejudice, too.
They were actually GOLDEN plates, not gold. Again, you have things mixed up.
But, heck, I\'ll bite. They probably were made of gold, as gold doesn\'t corrode, rust, or tarnish. Perfect for keeping something safe for hundreds of years.
We do not believe Quetzacoatl was Jesus to the Aztecs, either, I thought you were joking a while ago, which is why I didn\'t acknowledge it. Quetzacoatl was a bird god, if I\'m not incorrect, surely we couldn\'t be that \'mormon\' to try and say that?
Hope that photoshop is coming along nicely.
Eric Jacob
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*Read\'s Alteredbeast\'s last post*
*Goes back and reads GmanJoe\'s first post about Quetzacoatl*
Ooooohhhh! When you posted "Facts : Quetzelcuatl was an Aztec god that could turn into a serpent. Also known as "Morning Star". "Lucifer" is Greek for "Bringer of Light"....aka "Morning Star". Quetz. was not Jesus as some of you believe. " I thought you were talking about what you believed. I didn\'t say anything about it because I thought those were your beliefs and I\'m not one to bash someone else for their beliefs. I missed the last sentence when you said that "Quetz. was not Jesus as some of you believed."
Like Altered said, we do not believe that Quetzacoatl was Jesus. We believe that Jesus was Jesus when he visited the Americas after his ressurection (that is what this "Quetzacoatl" thing is referring to, right? I have never heard of Quetzacoatl except for in Final Fantasy games, so I don\'t know exactly what it is referring to, or why it would be brought up in a discussion about Mormon beliefs.)
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because we are a strange religion full of far fetched beliefs, much distant to many Christian churches out there, don\'t you know, IronFist? really? me niehter, GManJoe seems to know something we don\'t.
Eric Jacob
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Ok, I\'m finally starting to understand why GmanJoe brought up Quetzacoatl. I did some research on the internet and found that some Mormon\'s believe that Quetzacoatl was what the people in ancient-America used to represent Christ when he came to them. This is all news to me. :) Instead of GmanJoe arguing with the Mormons who believe that, he brings it up here and expects us to believe the same. Unfortunately for GmanJoe, this is not docterine in our church. Just because some people believe it does not mean our church does.
And now that I think about it, it doesn\'t seem that far fetched for the people in South America to have a representation of Christ in the form of "Quetzacoatl." I am starting to understand why some Mormon\'s see this as a connection between our church and the Aztecs. It could be that through the few hundreds of years after Christ came, stories of Christ were passed on through the people and eventually "Quetzacoatl" was their final representation of him from the stories that they heard.
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I would just like to say that I blame the Mormons for this insanely long thread.
And satan lives next door to me. His name is Bill, Bill Billson.
He\'s an ok guy I guess. Keeps his lawn mowed and what not.
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Originally posted by IronFist
GmanJoe:
Yes. Our church believes that after Christ was resurrected he went over to the Americas. There, he set up his church. Unfortunately, the people apostatized, the apostles died (many by murder), and Christ\'s true church was lost. In the 1820s, Christ and God the Father appeared to Joseph Smith. That is when what we believe to be Christ\'s church, the same church that was organized back when Christ visited the Americas, was brought back to this earth. Our church, like most Christian churches, also believes that Christ will return to this world in what we call the second coming.
Yeah but the second coming of Christ is the end of the world. Says in the bible. I think we\'re still here. How can you believe that there will be a "second coming" when he came a second time. The second coming of Christ is the end of the world. I still think this guy Joe Smith is a nut. He to me just wants attention.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
GManJoe, congratulations, you have proved yourself to be more retarded than I previously thought.
Keep making up stuff, I think even anti-mormons could laugh at some of the stuff you make up.
Eric Jacob
Sorry for the double post. Altered, you proved this a while ago. You make yourself sound retarded by attempting to defend a BS religion. Talk about listening with an open mind. You don\'t even read our posts with an open mind so why the hell should we? I think the antimormons will laugh their asses off reading YOUR posts. Most of them make no sense. I laugh my ass off reading your posts because they are so retarded. I find more truth in Christianity. There is more evidence than mormonism.
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Titan:
Yeah but the second coming of Christ is the end of the world. Says in the bible.
The second coming of Christ is not the end of the world. The wicked will be destroyed, and the righteous will continue living. I don\'t want to say much more about it than that because you think I\'m full of BS anyways. If you really want to know what the LDS church believes of the second coming and beyond, just ask nicely and promise not to bash our beliefs, then I or Altered will tell you. :) I have a question though. What do the other Christian churches believe will happen at the second coming of Christ? Will the world end like Titan has said, or will people keep on living?
I think we\'re still here. How can you believe that there will be a "second coming" when he came a second time.
The second coming is said to happen 2000 years after Christ\'s first coming (add a few years due to our calender not being perfect). That alone should be enough to tell you that Christ going to the Americas, and Christ and God appearing to Joseph Smith was not the second coming.
The second coming is referring to when Christ will come down and live on the earth again (at least to our church it is. I\'m not sure about all the other Christian churches out there.)
When Christ went to the Americas after his resurrection, I would classify that as his first coming still. It was only a few days separating his life on the Eastern continent and him appearing in the Americas. And he didn\'t really stay there for too long; just long enough to set up his church.
And when Christ and God appeared to Joseph Smith in the 1820s, Christ did not come down to everyone in the world and walk around like a normal person. He only appeared to Joseph Smith to tell him some extremely important things, then he left again.
I don\'t understand why you are making such a big deal about this though. Would it matter if we called it the "3rd coming" or the "4th coming" or even the "10000th coming"? Of course not. Those are just names to represent an event. It makes it easier to talk about it with other people if we have a common name for it though.
I still think this guy Joe Smith is a nut. He to me just wants attention.
If you have read about Joseph Smith\'s life, you would know that he hated all the attention he got. He hated being, well, hated by the church leaders of so many other churches. He hated being attacked by mobs and hated running in fear for his life. He was just 14 years old when God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him.
Now put your bias aside for a second and picture this hypothetical situation: You are only 14 years old when you are confronted with an extremely hard to make choice -- which church out of all of the churches that exist are true? Now pretend that to find out, you follow the advice found in James 1:5, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God..." and you then go out into a forest and pray to God asking which church is true. Then while you are praying, God and Christ appear to you and tell you that none of the churches are true, and that you will be the one to bring the true church back onto this earth. Just imagine how you would feel going back to your family and saying none of the churches, not even theirs, are true. To go against so many churches and so many people, especially at such a young age, is an extremely daunting task.
People throw temper tantrums to get attention. People show off to get attention. But come on now, do you really think that people start religions, write huge books, and go against nearly everyone around them to the point of eventually being thrown in jail then murdered just to get attention?
You make yourself sound retarded by attempting to defend a BS religion.
I don\'t understand. Why exactly is this a BS religion? Is it because it is different from yours? :rolleyes:
And why does Altered defending his religion against false accusations from GmanJoe make him sound retarded? If I started spreading BS rumors about your religion, wouldn\'t you try to straighten things out, or would you instead let everyone here belief the false things said by me?
Talk about listening with an open mind. You don\'t even read our posts with an open mind so why the hell should we? I think the antimormons will laugh their asses off reading YOUR posts. Most of them make no sense. I laugh my ass off reading your posts because they are so retarded.
*GrOan*
I find more truth in Christianity.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a Christian church.
There is more evidence than mormonism.
What ever happened to faith?! The word "faith" is used in the Bible probably thousands of times. If you only believe in a certain religion because it has the most evidence for it, then you are completely ignoring one of the most important things needed for a religion to work.
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Some non-Christian cult-rescue organizations have laballed Mormonism as a cult. And since you\'re obviously brainwashed, whatever truths I tell you about your religion, you call them lies. :rolleyes: Obviously, you\'re brainwashed and can\'t see the truth. Come on....you can\'t become gods like your Mormon religion says. That\'s what Lucifer wanted to be. And DO ask your Elders if they believe that Jesus was married....three times. Please. Seek the truth. Don\'t put EVERYTHING on faith.
David Koresh (sp?) had his people have faith in him. So did Jim Jones and Marshall Applewhite....look where they ended up. And since it\'s been approximately 2002 years since Jesus\' time, sounds like you guys are about to have your End Of Earth Day Big Jamboree! :D
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i am through with this thread. obviously everything I have told you is not getting through as you keep on pressing the same anti-mormon buttons every anti-mormon before you has.
You have read various anti-mormon sites to learn about our church, now try reading sites by members who (easily) refute anti-mormon sites.
it was good while it lasted, this topic sure has given a new name to the word ignorance.
Eric Jacob
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I did read pro-Mormon site. What do you think Mormon Apologetics mean?
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this topic sure has given a new name to the word ignorance.
Tell me about it!
I mean, if some believe in Superman and some in Superman2. Who’s gonna get saved by him?
Btw, I like comics, but I don’t hold my comic books as thruths or stuff like that though. No matter how much I would like to be "saved".
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bjorn, bjorn, bjorn, it just isn\'t as simple as that. This topic left the discussion of merely a God or a Savior and ran away into mormon bashing/Mormons countering.
It was once a great topic spoiled by quick jabs of senselessness. It was fun while it lasted
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yea I noticed that it went to mormon bashing/countering. That\'s what I meant with my post. Cause as I see it, you are fighting over two imaginary things. And that doesn\'t make any sence.
Just like the fights in India.
Crazy I tell you.
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crazy indeed
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
it was good while it lasted, this topic sure has given a new name to the word ignorance.
Eric Jacob
I like this quotation.
". . .new name to the word ignorance. . . Eric Jacob."
Dude, you said it!
On topic:
All other Christians believe that Christ is not going to live with us, but come and call the living believers to heaven. One interpretation can be found in a decent movie called "Left Behind." Where we don\'t really "see" Jesus, but all the Christians just suddenly dissapear.
Those who don\'t believe in Christ will be left behind to live on Earth for another 1000 years or something like that, then Satan will rise from Hell and dwell on Earth for a while, then there will be a great battle, and good will win over evil yet again, and by then the sun will explode or something. . . it\'s everyone\'s guess anyways.
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Iron, you said that Christ\'s second coming would be 2000 years after his first coming. His second coming according to your religion was to the Aztecs. That was before 2000 years. Interesting huh? Christ was supposed to come in about the year 2000 but came before that (whenever the Aztechs lived but it was before the year 2000) And it is stated in the Catholic bible that Christ will come right before the apocolipse. That is the SECOND COMING. THE END OF THE WORLD IS THE SECOND COMING. Read the catholic bible. That is proof to me that your religion is BS.
Altered, I thought you said you were done with this thread? You\'re still posting here.
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good way of calling me back, I knew some idiot would have to do it.
The Catholic religion is completely BS, don\'t get ME started. Of course, I have actual facts to back me up instead of anti-catholic sites designed to warp my opinions even further.
I love how you bash my religion, the church that has contradicted itself least, or not at all, all the while praising that Catholic Bible.
hahaha, good one :)
Eric Jacob
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You do know that the Catholic bible hasn\'t been updated since the death of Christ, right? Only the old testament has some controversial issues like creation. Your whole freaking bible contradicts itself. Another question, you say that anti catholic sites are ok for everyone to look at but when they look at anti mormon sites, its the biggest sin? What the hell is wrong with you? You never even look at anti mormon sites I bet. You always tell us to read your crap with an open mind but you don\'t even read ours with an open mind. Why the hell should we give a damn about what you say? Geez. Iron\'s posts actually make sense and are good arguements. Argueing with you is like arguing with a wall.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
The Catholic religion is completely BS, don\'t get ME started. Of course, I have actual facts to back me up instead of anti-catholic sites designed to warp my opinions even further.
HA. You just admitted that Christianity is BS. It has already been said that mormons ARE CHRISTIANS. Catholics ARE CHRISTIAN but the ONLY difference really is they take the host and believe in Saints and the Pope. THATS IT. You just said that your religion is BS by saying that Catholicism is crap while catholicism=christians and mormons=christians. Nice job wise guy.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
good way of calling me back, I knew some idiot would have to do it.
Does Mormonism teach you to call people idiots?
If you hadn\'t lost any value to your preaching here, you did just now. And you plan to do missionary work? Good luck, you\'ll need it.
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I called him a \'tard after he called me one first. So there!
I\'m the good guy here. :)
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GmanJoe
Some non-Christian cult-rescue organizations have laballed Mormonism as a cult.
Well I guess it\'s a cult then; An 11 million member cult. On May 26th all 11 million of us are going to kill ourselves. It will be the biggest mass suicide in history! :rolleyes:
Come on....you can\'t become gods like your Mormon religion says. That\'s what Lucifer wanted to be.
No no no, Lucifer wanted all the glory for saving every single one of God\'s children. He wanted to be praised and loved by every one of us. He was probably a little jealous of the love that Jesus was going to get. Being a God was obviously the last thing on his mind because if he wanted to become a God he could have done it the "Mormon" way. :)
And DO ask your Elders if they believe that Jesus was married....three times. Please. Seek the truth.
Again, you as an outsider are claiming to know more than an insider. Admittedly you knew about Quetzacoatl when I didn\'t, but that does not mean you know more about my church than I do. If you did know more than I do, you wouldn\'t be using anti-Mormon sites in your arguments against me. ;) Read this: http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/jesus-married.htm
Don\'t put EVERYTHING on faith.
As I have already mentioned, I don\'t put everything on faith. The Holy Ghost confirming to me the truthfulness of my beliefs is more proof than I will ever need.
Troglodyte
All other Christians believe that Christ is not going to live with us, but come and call the living believers to heaven. One interpretation can be found in a decent movie called "Left Behind." Where we don\'t really "see" Jesus, but all the Christians just suddenly dissapear. Those who don\'t believe in Christ will be left behind to live on Earth for another 1000 years or something like that, then Satan will rise from Hell and dwell on Earth for a while, then there will be a great battle, and good will win over evil yet again, and by then the sun will explode or something. . . it\'s everyone\'s guess anyways.
Thanks for the reply Troglodyte. I guess I\'ll post what our church believes about the Second Coming as well.
First we have all of the signs of the times. The red moon, the lack of a rainbow for a whole year, famine, war, ect. And then comes the war of Armageddon, where around a billion people will die.
I think that all Christian churches believe that (of course correct me if I\'m wrong).
Then comes the second coming. Christ will appear in the sky dressed in red clothes. Then the rapture will happen where the rightous will be lifted into the sky, followed by the destruction of all the wicked. Now I think that after the destruction of the wicked, the rightous will go back down onto the earth with Christ and will continue living. (I know my church believes that we will continue living on this earth with Christ after the second coming, but I don\'t know exactly what the events for us are, if any, between when we are lifted into the sky and everyone else is destroyed, and the time when we are living on earth with Christ again.)
The years 2000-3000 (again, off a little due to our calenders) are the final years of this earth as we know it. During this time, Satan will be bound, or in other words, we will not have a desire or temptation to sin. Christ will live with us on the earth and will be our King. He will guide us in completing some required things for all mankind to have a chance at salvation (geneology being a prime example). During that time, if you get really old, instead of dying you will be immediately translated. At the end of this 1000 years, Satan will be released from his bounds and there will be a war between him and his troops, and Michael (Adam) and his troops. Good will win over Evil and Satan and his followers will be cast out forever (to where, I\'m not quite sure. ;))
Then the earth will become celestial. I don\'t know if this means that the earth will become the Celestial Kingdom, or if it means it will just become immortal, or if it means something entirely different. I learned about this a few years ago, and can\'t remember exactly what happens to the earth in the end. I guess I\'ll go do some more research. :)
Hey Altered, feel free to add to what I\'ve said.
Titan:
Iron, you said that Christ\'s second coming would be 2000 years after his first coming. His second coming according to your religion was to the Aztecs. That was before 2000 years. Interesting huh? Christ was supposed to come in about the year 2000 but came before that (whenever the Aztechs lived but it was before the year 2000) And it is stated in the Catholic bible that Christ will come right before the apocolipse. That is the SECOND COMING. THE END OF THE WORLD IS THE SECOND COMING. Read the catholic bible. That is proof to me that your religion is BS.
I cannot, and need not, say any more than what I have already said. My last post was more than sufficiant in responding to this argument. I do not know anything else to say that would help my argument, so I\'m not even going to try.
Titan: (again)
Your whole freaking bible contradicts itself.
No it doesn\'t.
Another question, you say that anti catholic sites are ok for everyone to look at but when they look at anti mormon sites, its the biggest sin? What the hell is wrong with you?
Altered never said that anti-Catholic sites were ok to look at. Go read his post again. He said "I have actual facts to back me up instead of anti-catholic sites designed to warp my opinions even further." He was referring to how GmanJoe used some anti-Mormon sites to try and make us Mormons look bad.
But I do not like where this is going. This thread should not be about trying to prove other religions wrong. Altered, if you want to defend our religous beliefs against false accusations, do it by posting truths about our religion instead of the problems with other religions.
Why the hell should we give a damn about what you say?
This thread is about different people\'s beliefs. One would think that you would come into this thread with the intent of learning about different beliefs instead of just coming into this thread to try and prove other beliefs wrong. That is why you should care about what Altered, as well as everyone else says.
***Note to everyone***
Lets put this namecalling and personal bashing to rest before this starts looking like a topic in the Console Debating forum. [wink emoticon goes here -- stupid pic limit!]
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Wow, this thread is still going? Amazing. :)
These are the guys with the most sparetime: :D
User Posts
IronFist.............49
Troglodyte........41
Videoholic........40
luckee..............31
##RaCeR##....30
AlteredBeast....29
theomen..........28
GmanJoe..........27
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Don\'t be so modest Samwise. You should at least rank yourself for taking the time to count all of our posts. ;) Oh, and Racer would have so beaten me if he didn\'t bail out on the 10th page. :)
Ok, I admit it. I have waaaay to much spare time on my hands. :D I don\'t have school, work, a car, a girlfriend, and I am saving the money that I do have, so there really isn\'t much to do besides read my scriptures, play video games/watch TV, and surf the web. Only a little more than a month until I turn in my mission papers! :)
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Everyone seemed to have bailed out except Iron, me, Gman, Trog, and a couple others. Altered left because he knew he was losing ;)
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Dang, I guess I joined too late to share my christian beliefs. Iron Fist, i liked your long response. Very informative to people. Oh, and after the war between satan and God\'s armies, i believe satan and his minions get cast into a lake of fire for eternity.
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sorry bout flying off of the handle. It is not my job to put others in their places, only to try and open other peoples\' minds. The LDS KJV Bible never contradicts itself, ever. Nor does the Book of Mormon, which actually supports the Bible, and vice versa.
What I should be saying is this:
being a mormon is nothing like being catholic, protestant, etc. Being catholic, etc. is like being a part of a group. the members of the group are encouraged to participate every week in worship. Priests, Ministers, etc. encourage group members to not smoke, drink, have premarital sex, etc. On a grand scale, most members do not. Members usually come to their respective churches on holidays and when they have a problem. They have faith in God, but only ask Him for help when they need it.
Being a mormon is an entire way of life. Members are encouraged to come every week for worship, and a vast majority do. Members are encouraged not to smoke, drink, etc. and a vast majority don\'t. Members are encouraged to pray twice a day, not only when they need it. The Holy Ghost is someone who can always be relied upon to guide us in our lives, no matter what. USA Members live healthy, active lives, on an average of 5 years longer than the rest of the world. We are unbound in our faith, whether it be through reading the scriptures or personal revelation. The faithful have knowledge that their chosen religion is the one true religion which may be the reason that we are the fastest growing church and have the second least amount of members leave the church (Satanism being the first). I cannot really tell you anything else.
GManJoe, I never said to read anti-catholic sites, I said they would only warp my opinions further. Of course there probably aren\'t half as many anti-catholic sites as anti-mormon sites. Yes, I have read many anti-mormon sites, and most of the junk they put up there is completely untrue to the point where I personally know they are wrong.
It is really sad that you believe so much falsehoods about our church, but I don\'t believe anyone in here has given it half the chance, some, no chance at all.
I will not be posting in this topic anymore unless incited to do so.
Eric Jacob
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Whether you people believe it or not, the bible gives people hope. It\'s what I, like many others believe in. It helps to believe when you die that there is a better place at the end of life. I have accepted my religon because it helps me. Whether you believe it to be a hoax or not is up to you. I just find it horrible that you people insult the integrity of religon over a 22 page thread.
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Originally posted by IronFist
Don\'t be so modest Samwise. You should at least rank yourself for taking the time to count all of our posts. ;) Oh, and Racer would have so beaten me if he didn\'t bail out on the 10th page. :)
Actually, I didn\'t count them. You can get the info by clicking on the \'replies number\' in the forum overview screen. :)
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I got out when no one would tell me how the dinosaurs got onto the arc. Then it was just too much to read to get back into this thing.
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
being a mormon is nothing like being catholic, protestant, etc. Being catholic, etc. is like being a part of a group. the members of the group are encouraged to participate every week in worship. Priests, Ministers, etc. encourage group members to not smoke, drink, have premarital sex, etc. On a grand scale, most members do not. Members usually come to their respective churches on holidays and when they have a problem. They have faith in God, but only ask Him for help when they need it.
Being a mormon is an entire way of life. Members are encouraged to come every week for worship, and a vast majority do. Members are encouraged not to smoke, drink, etc. and a vast majority don\'t. Members are encouraged to pray twice a day, not only when they need it. The Holy Ghost is someone who can always be relied upon to guide us in our lives, no matter what. USA Members live healthy, active lives, on an average of 5 years longer than the rest of the world. We are unbound in our faith, whether it be through reading the scriptures or personal revelation. The faithful have knowledge that their chosen religion is the one true religion which may be the reason that we are the fastest growing church and have the second least amount of members leave the church (Satanism being the first). I cannot really tell you anything else.
Eric Jacob
First I would like to thank you for the non-bash post, and the calm rational you put into this quite intellegent post. I\'m glad to see you\'re not a hard-ass 24/7.
No Christian church condones smoking, sex, etc. If they do then they are not part of their respective convention, and not concidered a trrue Christian church. The problem is that the church can preach the right stuff, but it\'s up to the members of the congregation to follow. To be honest with you, I know about 7 Mormons personally, and 5 of them, as I can tell, "make mistakes" often. Most Christians do, humans are born into sin, and temptations are everywhere, and most of us are not strong enough.
It\'s good to see that prayer is such an important part of Mormonism, but followers shouldn\'t have to feel like they have to meet a "twice a day" quota, not only pray when they "need to." Prayer should come to us as does breathing, closer to a more consistant "unconsious" act. I\'m sure the guideline your church sets is more for newcomers to the faith, and for children. Once you are involved enough in your faith, you should want to spend more time in prayer.
I\'m not going to comment on statistics, quite honestly I have found throughout this thread that we should not be using them, because religion is not a statistical science, but a personal choice and decision, where statistical evidence holds no grounds because each individual case is radically different from the rest.
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you people are scaring me.
You have taken religon WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of context.
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No replies for 4 days.... Is this thread finally dying??
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
you people are scaring me.
You have taken religon WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of context.
Thats precisely what most religious ppl do and one of the reasons we have holy wars.
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so is this thread the longest ever yet?
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lol. Trying to keep this thread from dying huh?
Anyways, the PS2 countdown thread was much longer than this, but I think this takes second place. And unless someone says something controversial and/or conversation-inducing, I think it is going to stay that way.
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Originally posted by Samwise
Wow, this thread is still going? Amazing. :)
These are the guys with the most sparetime: :D
User Posts
IronFist.............49
Troglodyte........41
Videoholic........40
luckee..............31
##RaCeR##....30
AlteredBeast....29
theomen..........28
GmanJoe..........27
the guys with the most sparetime
User Posts
SAMWISE for counting all the posts !
IronFist.............49
Troglodyte........41
Videoholic........40
luckee..............31
##RaCeR##....30
AlteredBeast....29
theomen..........28
GmanJoe..........27
credit to sammy for counting all them :D
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Don\'t mind me saying so, but...
Let This Thread DIE!!!111
Okay, I\'ve said my peace.;)
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IT WAS DEAD!
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Originally posted by IronFist
lol. Trying to keep this thread from dying huh?
Anyways, the PS2 countdown thread was much longer than this, but I think this takes second place. And unless someone says something controversial and/or conversation-inducing, I think it is going to stay that way.
Seriously, I was interested in how large it was compared to others.
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Why did you bring it back luckee, why? :( Fights will start up again soon :D
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Originally posted by LUKE
IT WAS DEAD!
Sorry.:D
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Originally posted by project86
Sorry.:D
And you should be. This thread was dead and what did you go and do? You brought it back. Damn you.
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I just tried to get a printout of this thread. When it started to count up on how many pages it would be I decided that at 96 I would pass on the printed version of this thread.
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Originally posted by project86
I just tried to get a printout of this thread. When it started to count up on how many pages it would be I decided that at 96 I would pass on the printed version of this thread.
Go to http://www.zombo.com right click the flash, and choose to print. ;)
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Go to http://www.zombo.com right click the flash, and choose to print. ;)
15 foot catalog!!!
That alone tells me to stay away! :D
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Originally posted by project86
15 foot catalog!!!
That alone tells me to stay away! :D
Whoa, never mind, they changed the site!
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Whoa, never mind, they changed the site!
And to think I thought you wanted me to print up a 15 foot thick catalog!:eek: :D
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How do you know if you are at a gay picnic?
All of the hot dogs taste like crap.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
How do you know if you are at a gay picnic?
All of the hot dogs taste like crap.
I can safely say that this is the best spam I have ever read. Funny chit too!!!:laughing:
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I couldn\'t believe this page was all the way back on page 3.
I had to do some serious research.
Here is a joke that is more to the thread topic.
Q: Why did cavemen drag cave women by the hair instead of by the legs?
A: So they wouldn\'t fill up with dirt.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
I couldn\'t believe this page was all the way back on page 3.
I had to do some serious research.
Here is a joke that is more to the thread topic.
Q: Why did cavemen drag cave women by the hair instead of by the legs?
A: So they wouldn\'t fill up with dirt.
Now that one was definitely a plus to your post count…I love it!:laughing:
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Was there really ever a reason for this thread to be closed?
over 10 years ago. Seems like yesterday.
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I think it is the longest thread in PSX2Central history. And from what I remember (didn\'t bother clicking on the first page), luckee just asked a simple question. Ah those were the days.
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Seems like you were on a bit of a roll up there Vid...hilarious stuff!!...:fro:
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Hehehe, I did NOT have a homosexual orgy in gym class.
My female teacher was watching, so technically it was hetrosexual :D
As to do with the water issue, like I said, for that amount of water to be produced to cover all the continents, you would need an act of God. So, an act of God could remove all the water too.
Only Noah was saved because Noah was the only one that believed it would rain (it had NEVER rained before the flood).
This is in Genesis.
Anyways.
Dangit I forget what that was from. Man Racer use to get abused.. Awesome.
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Racer is like the easiest victim to tease.
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Racer is like the easiest victim to tease.
Unicron kinda made it easier. Him and Fred were much simpler targets than Racer.
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I wonder what has become of our punching bags.... racer, unicron, fred, deanna...
I know swifdi is in jail for giving all those emails to Julian Assange...
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heh... racer....
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I miss fred, if you ever had a bad day and you needed cheering up, all you had to do is come here and read fred\'s daily stories about the bad shit in his life and it made you realise it was never as bad as it seemed.
I wonder if he ever got those triangular wheels I sent him
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I think Unicron joined a jihadic Nazi group since he hates America so much.
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Bump :)
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i just read the first and 2nd to last page (page 1 and page 38) and page 38 has some funny jokes in it. i get the first joke but didn't get the 2nd joke on that page.