PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Terry Bogard on February 20, 2002, 04:04:38 PM
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http://www.gamespydaily.com/news/screenshots.asp?id=2971
Wow, This game really looks like a game that CAN\'T be done on PS2. :rolleyes: If thats how the game will look in the final build, thats gotta be one of the worst lookin games, and a big ass disgrace to the name of "Bruce Lee"
Please tell me it won\'t look this bad.
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Wow, This game really looks like a game that CAN\'T be done on PS2.
Could have done with out this...
Anyway, the game looks horrible right now.
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Originally posted by Ginko
Could have done with out this...
Oh cry...
Does look bad.. But it\'s the gameplay that matters.;)
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Whew! That could be on the orignal PSX.:D Careful no someone will come in here and say:
"How can you bash it when you haven\'t even played it? That picture could be screwed up(or something like that) You suck because the Xbox rules and PS2\'s power couldn\'t stand up to the graphics. yada yada yada.":rolleyes:
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I ain\'t playin no game where you have to wear an yellow jumpsuit. And what\'s with the manboobs on that girl ninja??
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heh i wish i had man boobs id never leave the house
well i gotta say those are quite lacking something - well err everything actually graphicswise at least
i hope its early build though
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and a big ass disgrace to the name of "Bruce Lee"
:laughing: :laughing: It realy is a big disgrace!!! To Xbox too! :laughing:
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Originally posted by Bladez
Whew! That could be on the orignal PSX.:D Careful no someone will come in here and say:
"How can you bash it when you haven\'t even played it? That picture could be screwed up(or something like that) You suck because the Xbox rules and PS2\'s power couldn\'t stand up to the graphics. yada yada yada.":rolleyes:
There\'re bad games,graphically,on each System,even on the more powerful...and as Ginko said above,the game looks horrible right now...
...and about Terry Bogard,I\'m so sorry for him,so obsessed by the XBox ;) ...it\'s the most powerful with the greatest potential this generation(technically)...and a bad game prove nothing...
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I hope they do bruce lee some justice with a good story plot. As for the graphics. Right now they look crappy, but it\'s early so I hope they get there act together.
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamespydaily.com%2Fscreenshots%2F2971%2Fpicture20.jpg&hash=e6a4a4cb7084ee4028c773e4a2bcf8a6004c562c)
wow those gotta be the best shadows ever :eek:
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamespydaily.com%2Fscreenshots%2F2971%2FLevel%25201%2520boss.jpg&hash=382792b8f9b9dac48f59eae399cf3693582ebfca)
somethinig looks odd here, but i dont know what
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamespydaily.com%2Fscreenshots%2F2971%2Fpicture14.jpg&hash=f6d4b321c84cd8acc092632316aa93cf65be97b0)
damn looks like a \'bad looking\' DC game
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Okay, now I\'ve gone blind, I tried too hard to find something good to say about those pics. Man, something seems to be really wrong with that girl in the second pic... can\'t quite put my finger on it... to start with, she look worried as hell, wonder why (ashamed to be in that game?).
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Originally posted by BizioEE
There\'re bad games,graphically,on each System,even on the more powerful...and as Ginko said above,the game looks horrible right now...
...and about Terry Bogard,I\'m so sorry for him,so obsessed by the XBox ;) ...it\'s the most powerful with the greatest potential this generation(technically)...and a bad game prove nothing...
Most powerful? Fine. But by how much? Will it ever be enough for the majority of gamers to care?
Greatest potential? Maybe if your talking about its ability to bring console gamers cleaner versions of PC ports (not that there\'s anything wrong with that!). With its greater flexibility I think the PS2 has much more potential to end up showing us the unexpected (technically)...
Maybe you would be better off feeling sorry for those who\'ve forgotten the very early screens and videos of the Bruce Lee game and all the excitment of eager fans gloating about how good it looked so soon into development. Sure, the backgrounds were almost pitch black but the look was near photo realistic. What happened? Did a 3DO team takeover production?
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Originally posted by Heretic
Most powerful? Fine. But by how much? Will it ever be enough for the majority of gamers to care?
In the next years? maybe...but not only for the greater graphics capabilities...
Greatest potential? Maybe if your talking about its ability to bring console gamers cleaner versions of PC ports (not that there\'s anything wrong with that!). With its greater flexibility I think the PS2 has much more potential to end up showing us the unexpected (technically)...
You have no idea what you\'re speaking about:)
I stopped to lap up each Sony\'s words...or some developers...
...Sony really pissed me off this time...you speak about flexibility,potential,magical unexpected and untapped power...can you prove something?...the answer is NO! Because there\'re not magical formula in hardware...if you have limitations,if you have not enough texture bandwidth,for example,there\'s nothing you can do...
Why Texturing on the DC(Shenmue2) is still equal or better than PS2?
I\'m not sure why people are arguing that the PS2 and Xbox are nearly equal in power....while the PS2 does contain some interesting parameters in its architecture the end does not necessarily mean that it can recoup its deficiencies with the Xbox and the GC. The PS2 design is a bit of a revolution, but that 4 MB of eDRAM on the GS is something that took alot of devs some time to get used to. Instead of giving them a measly small cache with vast amounts of graphics memory, Sony evened the playing field by giving a hefty 4 MB of super fast memory so you could use the cache to maximum efficiency without the need for external memory. That tradeoff didn\'t do too well. That damn cache is very fast, but it has no external memory to feed it regularly aside from the main memory of the machine, which IMO should be kept entirely for the EE. The PS2 is going to have some very geometry intensive stuff going on in games over the next years and this will be the most impressive part of its visuals. In terms of geometry, I\'m pretty sure it will outclass the GCN in polygons just because it can push more geometry around......but the more geometry we get the more aliasing we will see. I think that without a doubt, at least for the most part,the Gamecube will be far more efficient in terms of modelling with their geometry to offset the rather weak dynamic T&L it can do. But GCN does have the textures and TEV to do some shader ops so that will be a big bonus. Xbox on the other hand, can do more dynamic and static T&L from what I\'ve seen so it just might be the best of both worlds in terms of geometry. High geometry levels with grand amounts of textures along with all the vertex and pixel shaders effects. I do think the Xbox will be a much better performing machine than either PS2 or GCN in the future, but it will take some time before we will really start to see the difference.
Again, wait until the 2nd and 3rd generation games come out for the Xbox and GC....it will be more clear then.
And another little thing...about "tricks"...texturing and streaming from DVD...
Do you think that the magic streaming technique will solve the problem?...streaming from DVD? the macical technique exclusive to PS2?
People sometimes really show some ignorance(not speaking of you Heretic :) ...)
What some guys can\'t realize is that the total 48GB/s bandwidth is between the GS and its embedded DRAM. And not all of those bandwidth can be used for texture.
Infact, the texture read/write bus width is only 512-bit. Thus, by multiplying it by the GS\'s clock speed (147.5 MHz), you get 9.4 GB/s texture read/write bandwidth.
Anyway, back to the topic of streaming. Memory bandwidth plays almost no roll at all in streaming data from the DVD drive to memory. Why? Because the data transfer rate is limited by the DVD drive\'s own data transfer rate. At it\'s fastest, the PS2\'s 4x DVD drive can only transfer 5.5 MB/s (4 x 1,385 KB/s). It can NEVER read any faster than this. This 5.5 MB/s bandwidth is NOTHING compared to Xbox\'s or PS\'s memory bandwidth. If it\'s possible on the PS2, it\'s possible on the Xbox. Actually, the Xbox can do it better. It can use the built-in HD to stream textures much faster than even the fastest DVD drive in world.
Please note that PS2 has to use trick to keep up, while Xbox games look better in almost every aspect without using any trick at all !
And why PS2 should be more flexible?
XBox and PS2 are both 3 processors machine,Main CPU + Vu0 + Vu1 "linked" to the GS for PS2 and the XCPU + NV2a + MCPX for the XBox...
...but the difference is that XBox is almost more powerful in each department...and it\'s easier to develop for...
PS2 could be more competitive in physics and collision-system...but you should sacrifice a LOT,a LOT graphics and sound!
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Originally posted by BizioEE
You have no idea what you\'re speaking about:)
I stopped to lap up each Sony\'s words...or some developers...
...Sony really pissed me off this time...
I\'m talking about these extremely cheesy Bruce Lee shots compared to what was being shown for xbox a year ago. What in the world are you talking about with all this tech mumbo-jumbo/easy-to-develop-for xbox crap? From where I sit you should be more pissed at MS than Sony. I guess that\'s just me...
Originally posted by BizioEE
you speak about flexibility,potential,magical unexpected and untapped power...
Woah, just a minute now, your the one dragging magic into it, not me...
Originally posted by BizioEE
Please note that PS2 has to use trick [i.e. magic?] to keep up, while Xbox games look better in almost every aspect WITHOUT USING ANY TRICK AT ALL.
WITHOUT USING ANY TRICK AT ALL? So 30 fps is not a trick and everyone is satisfied it shows vastly superior power. Hey, if you say so...
I\'m quite pleased with what I\'ve seen the PS2 do so far, you wanted/expected a lot more. Can\'t please everyone.
Originally posted by BizioEE
And why PS2 should be more flexible?
Come on, a tech savy guy like you needs to ask? Let\'s say we give all three consoles another year, then butt heads some more. It\'s only fair. Right?
Originally posted by BizioEE
XBox and PS2 are both 3 processors machine,Main CPU + Vu0 + Vu1 "linked" to the GS for PS2 and the XCPU + NV2a + MCPX for the XBox...
...but the difference is that XBox is almost more powerful in each department...and it\'s easier to develop for...
Them\'s some hasty words. You know darn well the PS2 CPU puts the xbox CPU to shame. That\'s a nasty slip for someome so full of tech jargon.
"and it\'s easier to develop for..." Going back again to screens from last year I would have to say it\'s not so easy as it was cracked up to be.
You\'re pissed and write off Sony for all the hype you heard but haven\'t seen in action. I write off MS for what I remember seeing a year ago and hearing then that xbox was showing only 50% of it\'s true power . Until I see otherwise, a mountain of tech talk won\'t change a damn thing.
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Originally posted by Heretic
Them\'s some hasty words. You know darn well the PS2 CPU puts the xbox CPU to shame. That\'s a nasty slip for someome so full of tech jargon.
I see you can\'t catch the point...
The PS2 CPU has to do everything,while the XCPU has to calculate "only" meshes of polys,animations,physics and AI fundamentally...
Look at PS2 like a 3 processors machine...
- 1 The Main CPU
- 2 The Vu0
- 3 The Vu1 linked to the GS
and look at the XBox in the same way...
- 1 The XCPU
- 2 The MCPX
- 3 The NV2a
In a over simplified way...you have to compare The Main CPU + Vu0 of PS2 to the XCPU + the MCPX of the XBox and the Vu1 linked to the GS of PS2 to the NV2a of the XBox :
Main CPU + Vu0 ------> XCPU + MCPX
Vu1 linked to GS ------> The NV2a
Did I ever compare the EE to the XCPU directly? It has no sense...they have to do a different bulk of work...
I think you\'re the one who had a nasty slip ;)
"and it\'s easier to develop for..." Going back again to screens from last year I would have to say it\'s not so easy as it was cracked up to be.
You\'re pissed and write off Sony for all the hype you heard but haven\'t seen in action. I write off MS for what I remember seeing a year ago and hearing then that xbox was showing only 50% of it\'s true power . Until I see otherwise, a mountain of tech talk won\'t change a damn thing. [/B]
XBox is easier to develop for than PS2...not easy to develop for !
That\'s what I said :)
XBox is a complex piece of hardware and developers will have to fight to squeeze the MS console dry! MS hyped the "easy to develop for" side...that\'s why people caught a "misleading" message...I mean...""it\'s easy to push the XBox to its limits""...but it\'s a bull**** !
EASIER to develop for doesn\'t mean easy in absolute terms!
Metal Gear Solid 2X,Ninja Gaiden,Project Ego,Doom3 will show the potential of this console and a lot of blind people will change idea!;)
Wait till the next E3...
WITHOUT USING ANY TRICK AT ALL? So 30 fps is not a trick and everyone is satisfied it shows vastly superior power. Hey, if you say so...
I\'m quite pleased with what I\'ve seen the PS2 do so far, you wanted/expected a lot more. Can\'t please everyone.
You\'re complaining about the 30 fps of Halo...when we had Eternal Ring at first ?
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sonyweb.com%2Fmedia%2Feternalring%2Fimport%2Fer24.jpg&hash=d599124cddd510d5a41bf649129cb650c1c3caef)
...
DOA3 and PG are great technically,they\'re launch games,developed on the ****ty original buggy development kits and beat each 2nd gen game of PS2 in the corresponding category,overall!
...What in the world are you talking about with all this tech mumbo-jumbo/easy-to-develop-for xbox crap? From where I sit you should be more pissed at MS than Sony. I guess that\'s just me...
?? :rolleyes: see above...
Why? Should I be more pissed at MS than Sony?
I gave almost 2 years to PS2...and I\'ve not seen the potential I was waiting for...now are Nintendo and MS on duty !
Please,have an ounce of sense and stop to reply to me ;)
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I stopped to lap up each Sony\'s words...or some developers...
...Sony really pissed me off this time...you speak about flexibility,potential,magical unexpected and untapped power...can you prove something?...the answer is NO! Because there\'re not magical formula in hardware...if you have limitations,if you have not enough texture bandwidth,for example,there\'s nothing you can do...
What limitations are you talking of?
Why Texturing on the DC(Shenmue2) is still equal or better than PS2?
There are some better games on PS2 what textures are concern. And polygon-wise, the PS2 blows any DC game away. And what\'s so bad about equal textures? DC had pretty good textures IMHO and Xbox hasn\'t shown me something that is drastical better. I think you should do some rethinking...
Do you think that the magic streaming technique will solve the problem?...streaming from DVD? the macical technique exclusive to PS2?
People sometimes really show some ignorance(not speaking of you Heretic ...)
What some guys can\'t realize is that the total 48GB/s bandwidth is between the GS and its embedded DRAM. And not all of those bandwidth can be used for texture.
Infact, the texture read/write bus width is only 512-bit. Thus, by multiplying it by the GS\'s clock speed (147.5 MHz), you get 9.4 GB/s texture read/write bandwidth.
Anyway, back to the topic of streaming. Memory bandwidth plays almost no roll at all in streaming data from the DVD drive to memory. Why? Because the data transfer rate is limited by the DVD drive\'s own data transfer rate. At it\'s fastest, the PS2\'s 4x DVD drive can only transfer 5.5 MB/s (4 x 1,385 KB/s). It can NEVER read any faster than this. This 5.5 MB/s bandwidth is NOTHING compared to Xbox\'s or PS\'s memory bandwidth. If it\'s possible on the PS2, it\'s possible on the Xbox. Actually, the Xbox can do it better. It can use the built-in HD to stream textures much faster than even the fastest DVD drive in world.
BizioEE, what the **** is wrong with you? You should be slapped in your face left rigt and centre. I should post this bull**** of yours in the arstechnica forums and you will see how fast you\'ll be ripped apart. If you honestly think that the PS2 relise on DVD-streaming techniques, then I really feel sorry for you. Who told you this crap anyway? And if you found that out yourself, we should all be proud of you. At least you figured out "why" dvd-streaming would not be an option. Bravo!
In a over simplified way...you have to compare The Main CPU + Vu0 of PS2 to the XCPU + the MCPX of the XBox and the Vu1 linked to the GS of PS2 to the NV2a of the XBox :
Main CPU + Vu0 ------> XCPU + MCPX
Vu1 linked to GS ------> The NV2a
Damn, do you even have an idea what the MCPX of the Xbox is??? It\'s the fricking DSP processor for AUDIO - or producing the 3D sound. If you want to compare them as multiple processor consoles, don\'t forget the SPU2 (Sound-Processing-Unit 2) and the IOP (Input/Output Processor). And don\'t justify your arguement by saying that the VU0 is used to produce 3d sound - it\'s also possible to use the SPU2 + the IOP - it\'s just easier to make us of the EE\'s capabilities because it is a lot more powerful than you can imagine. You give it way to little credit to just compare them as CPU + VU0 vs XCPU + MCPX.
Did I ever compare the EE to the XCPU directly? It has no sense...they have to do a different bulk of work...
Then why try so hard with your above figures which are not only incorrect in the most saddening way but also pathetic since both have their ups and downs?
You\'re complaining about the 30 fps of Halo...when we had Eternal Ring at first ?
The point is; you\'re saying that PS2-developers will need tricks to compete with Xbox, but you\'re completely denying the fact that Halo only runs at 30fps which is a "trick". You do the math, it\'s easy.
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BizioEE, what the **** is wrong with you? You should be slapped in your face left rigt and centre. I should post this bull**** of yours in the arstechnica forums and you will see how fast you\'ll be ripped apart. If you honestly think that the PS2 relise on DVD-streaming techniques, then I really feel sorry for you. Who told you this crap anyway? And if you found that out yourself, we should all be proud of you. At least you figured out "why" dvd-streaming would not be an option. Bravo!
Calm down seven,most of people here are not interested in hardware...and sure don\'t spend time on the arstechnica forums...
...and didn\'t know that...
...And don\'t justify your arguement by saying that the VU0 is used to produce 3d sound - it\'s also possible to use the SPU2 + the IOP - it\'s just easier to make us of the EE\'s capabilities because it is a lot more powerful than you can imagine. You give it way to little credit to just compare them as CPU + VU0 vs XCPU + MCPX.
EA used the Vu1 to produce something "close" to the real time Dolby Digital of the XBox...wasting power for processing polys...why? Because the SPU2 + the IOP could easy do this ?
Answer me!
Damn, do you even have an idea what the MCPX of the Xbox is??? It\'s the fricking DSP processor for AUDIO - or producing the 3D sound. If you want to compare them as multiple processor consoles, don\'t forget the SPU2 (Sound-Processing-Unit 2) and the IOP (Input/Output Processor).
oh yes...I know...the Xbox Media & Communications Processor with Dolby Digital encoding support...ways more competitive than the SPU2 + IOP...please...
When I posted...Main CPU + Vu0 -----> XCPU + MCPX ,I forgot the SPU2(which was implied)...but I also said..."in a over-simplified way".....however...it does change nothing!!!!
What limitations are you talking of?
There\'re limitations in what you can do with the VU...a developer said that Anyone who uses the vector units to perform pixel shader effects (reflective/refractive bump-mapping, depth sprites, image convolution, etc.) is just wasting his time... performance would be unacceptably bad. Per-pixel effects belong on the processor that is responsible for handling pixels - this is where the PS2 fails most miserably... the GS supports fewer per-pixel effects than the 3dfx Voodoo 1...
There are some better games on PS2 what textures are concern. And polygon-wise, the PS2 blows any DC game away. And what\'s so bad about equal textures? DC had pretty good textures IMHO and Xbox hasn\'t shown me something that is drastical better. I think you should do some rethinking...
Some XBox launch games look better than anything on PS2...but how the hell the XBox could show something drastical better than PS2 after 3 months from launch?
XBox is a complex and very powerful machine and need time to be fully understood!
In 2 years I\'ll laugh at you! It\'s a promise;)
The point is; you\'re saying that PS2-developers will need tricks to compete with Xbox, but you\'re completely denying the fact that Halo only runs at 30fps which is a "trick". You do the math, it\'s easy.
Halo is beautiful...but it\'s a launch game,developed on unfinished hardware...can you understand?
Did you judge PS2 for its first RPG/FPS ? :D
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sonyweb.com%2Fmedia%2Feternalring%2Fimport%2Fer24.jpg&hash=d599124cddd510d5a41bf649129cb650c1c3caef)
seven...which tricks did From Software use for Eternal Ring ??
""The graphics in Eternal Ring are an improvement over PSX titles, but certainly nothing to write mom about. Although servicable enough, the textures used are surprisingly low-res for a 128-bit title, and the character models are surprisingly blocky. Worse yet, the dungeon environment is often too dark to really be enjoyable and ends up seeming more like a quick-and-dirty way to get the title out of the door early than anything else...""
...maybe nobody can push a new console at launch ? or in the first months of life? Maybe? and developers have to come to some compromise...?
...but you\'re complaining about Halo...
......don\'t make me laugh !
IMO XBox is a superior piece of hardware and I can\'t understand why people don\'t accept it...
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has this turned into a spec war again?
lets keep it on topic guys
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Originally posted by BizioEE
?? :rolleyes: see above...
Why? Should I be more pissed at MS than Sony?
I gave almost 2 years to PS2...and I\'ve not seen the potential I was waiting for...now are Nintendo and MS on duty !
Please,have an ounce of sense and stop to reply to me ;)
Gee BizioEE, thanks for over simplifying so us dumb guys can understand what you meant to say. I\'ll go you one better and drop the tech speak altogether to make clearer what I was getting at.
MS is still putting the cart before the horse. Some would have us believe a big enough horse can push almost any size cart. Probably true. Is it the best way to go? Some radical cart pushers (Sony, Square) said no. A few revered and talented cart pushers (one Nintendo 2nd party head and John Carmack) said no also but were firmly convinced the year 2000 was too early to try pulling carts. All were in agreement learning to pull carts would take lots of time and retooling.
So for the first time we see a nice little rig running by being pulled. It took a while but it seems to going nicely. Now some smartass wanna be cart pusher comes along and points to the brand new slightly bigger cart being pushed by a huge horse and proclaims it superior in almost every way.
"But look" says I "what about those big carts MS said it was pushing at half speed a year ago? Where are they now?"
"Like with any new rig" replies cart pusher wanna be "These things take time. Just look at the measly cart that inferior rig moved last year. Now bugger off."
"Wuh?" says I
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Calm down seven,most of people here are not interested in hardware...and sure don\'t spend time on the arstechnica forums...
...and didn\'t know that...
Well, if you didn\'t know that - then you never knew what the "streaming" that is used on PS2 is all about and it makes it really pathetic that someone like that (who has no idea) is trying to prove how much the PS2 is limited.
Well maybe that\'s the problem. I think you should do a little bit more research before you write something like that again. I could turn this into a really nasty one for you if I really wanted to.
EA used the Vu1 to produce something "close" to the real time Dolby Digital of the XBox...wasting power for processing polys...why? Because the SPU2 + the IOP could easy do this ?
Answer me!
Is that so suprising? Did you also know that no developer other than Naugthy Dog and perhaps Square really started to make use of the parallel chip-design (VU0 + Vu1)? What EA is doing is just nearly tapping what can be done. Once they figure out how to get more power out of the PS2 - it might slip there mind to try it the more complex way (SPU2 + IOP). So to answer you question, if you can do it with VU1 farely easy, why waste time on something that will take more time, cost and effort? Learning how to use the EE\'s vectore units has become a central task for all the PS2 developers that plan to develop for the system in the future. They are just at the beginning of finding out how to do things with it.
oh yes...I know...the Xbox Media & Communications Processor with Dolby Digital encoding support...ways more competitive than the SPU2 + IOP...please...
Prove? Oh right... there isn\'t any. :rolleyes: how would you want to prove that?
There\'re limitations in what you can do with the VU...a developer said that Anyone who uses the vector units to perform pixel shader effects (reflective/refractive bump-mapping, depth sprites, image convolution, etc.) is just wasting his time... performance would be unacceptably bad. Per-pixel effects belong on the processor that is responsible for handling pixels - this is where the PS2 fails most miserably...
Why don\'t you get me that article where a developer stated that? And WHICH developer? I am sure the developers at Naughty Dog would find this quite amusing (and so do I).
the GS supports fewer per-pixel effects than the 3dfx Voodoo 1...
Oh really?! Wow, have you ever read anything about the PS2\'s hardware? Just aswell that the PS2 only renders one texture per pass, it can only add that much of per-pixel effects. While only one thing is rendered every pass, it has the 512/1024 bit up and downstream bandwidth to make for it. So isn\'t it logical to asume that the GS supports less? It\'s was designed to be used in a different way. And do you know what that results in? The developers having more freedom in deciding how they want to achieve something.
Some XBox launch games look better than anything on PS2...but how the hell the XBox could show something drastical better than PS2 after 3 months from launch?
XBox is a complex and very powerful machine and need time to be fully understood!
In 2 years I\'ll laugh at you! It\'s a promise
Are you telling me that the console that even introduces DirectX support is more complex than a newely designed "streaming" console?
Halo is beautiful...but it\'s a launch game,developed on unfinished hardware...can you understand?
Did you judge PS2 for its first RPG/FPS ?
I just answered this one.
IMO XBox is a superior piece of hardware and I can\'t understand why people don\'t accept it...
Damn you\'re funny. If I remember correctly, I just read one of your later posts recently where you told everyone how disappointed with PS2 you are and at Sony bla bla bla - and how only the X-box might be able to live up to your high expertations?! And now, mearly a few days later, you\'re raving on about it being a superior piece of hardware - yet you don\'t even understand what the PS2 was designed for and make stupid assumptions on what is supposedly better. The lack of knowledge in this area (PS2) is showing and if I can give you one advice: stop this nonsense about bashing the technical aspects of a console you can\'t fully coprehent as it not only makes you look stupid, but you\'ll also loose your repution very quick. Just say you like X-box better because of the graphics now and leave it at your that instead of playing the technical genious which you obviously aren\'t.
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Basically what we have here, is lack of good artist or something, The player models are way screwed up, least thier nice and shiny though.
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You are totally right! They can\'t be done on ps2! Even if Sony tried to make that game.....doing their best they cant make it look that bad.......and umm.....why are they fighting on a horrible looking...lets say........hippy floor?
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Well Bruce did do alot of his movies in the 60\'s or 70\'s. (cant remember when he died) so that might explain the whole disco thing
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Originally posted by seven
The lack of knowledge in this area (PS2) is showing and if I can give you one advice: stop this nonsense about bashing the technical aspects of a console you can\'t fully coprehent as it not only makes you look stupid,
i dont think he looks stupid.. cos i cant understand a ****ing thing he says.. ****ing tech heads *shakes fist*
:p
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Well, if you didn\'t know that - then you never knew what the "streaming" that is used on PS2 is all about and it makes it really pathetic that someone like that (who has no idea) is trying to prove how much the PS2 is limited.
"They" didn\'t know...they was implied...people who are not interested in hardware...not..."I Didn\'t know..."...you\'re funny...
MPR\'s Analysts\' Choice Awards
Best Gaming Chip Set:
1) Microsoft Xbox: Intel Pentium III, Nvidia XGU/MCPX
2) Nintendo GameCube: IBM Gekko processor, ATI Flipper
3) Sony PlayStation 2: Sony Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesizer
4) PC desktop: AMD Athlon XP, VIA Apollo KT266A, Nvidia GeForce3
give a look...
http://www.mdronline.com/mpr_public/2002nominees.html
Damn you\'re funny. If I remember correctly, I just read one of your later posts recently where you told everyone how disappointed with PS2 you are and at Sony bla bla bla - and how only the X-box might be able to live up to your high expertations?! And now, mearly a few days later, you\'re raving on about it being a superior piece of hardware - yet you don\'t even understand what the PS2 was designed for and make stupid assumptions on what is supposedly better.
You can\'t even understand english seven...
I said I\'m disappointed from PS2...and probably I\'d have had to wait till next gen to see and play what I want...I meant...PS2,GC and XBox whould have not enough power to show what I want...and later I added...not sure about the XBox...let\'s wait and see...and not what you\'ve said moron!...look at what I\'ve said...
*Graphics is important for me,but what I want is more available power for animations,physics,AI,collision-system and more interactive environments...in a word,more power for a more realistc and involving game-play...and a much greater freedom in the actions...but I know...PS2,GC and XBox are not enough powerful to show what I want...maybe the next generation
...PS2?...months and months ago I believed this console were able to show all this...but I was a fool...or...I\'d say better,Sony made a fool of me..."The Next Generation Graphics...the Next Step...the next generation games..."...like a brainwashing...Where? Where?? Always the same game-play,the same games(J&D the true next Gen Game? Where?)...I\'m pissed off...Hope the XBox will show something more...let\'s wait and see....
IMO...the DreamCast is the only one console,right now,which has lived up to my expectations!*
*Yes...power is not the only limiting factor...but what I mean is that power is a "necessary condition",not sufficient!
Coding a lot of actions in a huge,interactive and alive environment,ruled by realistic physics where character move and react among them and other objects in a credible way whould take a lot of time,money but even power ...so...if you have power...you can deal with this complex subject...if you have not enough power...you can\'t...
...and I\'ve formed the idea that all the "next" gen console(not so sure about the XBox) have not the power to show what I was expecting from these consoles...*
http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=18756
Can you understand what people say ? Or you\'re totally blinded with your fanboysm ?
May I have an opinion? or you\'re too scared by my opinions?:D
What\'s the problem?
Oh really?! Wow, have you ever read anything about the PS2\'s hardware? Just aswell that the PS2 only renders one texture per pass, it can only add that much of per-pixel effects. While only one thing is rendered every pass, it has the 512/1024 bit up and downstream bandwidth to make for it. So isn\'t it logical to asume that the GS supports less? It\'s was designed to be used in a different way. And do you know what that results in? The developers having more freedom in deciding how they want to achieve something.
more freedom? fighting with the hardware and showing decent graphics and more or less the same game-play ? That\'s what you mean?
Look at the games...and stop to paste and copy garbage taken from the arstechnica forums;)
And stop to lap up each word from BS developers...you won\'t see "the next gen graphics" on PS2 bacause PS2 can\'t show what Sony promised! Open your blind eyes!
The lack of knowledge in this area (PS2) is showing and if I can give you one advice: stop this nonsense about bashing the technical aspects of a console you can\'t fully coprehent as it not only makes you look stupid, but you\'ll also loose your repution very quick. Just say you like X-box better because of the graphics now and leave it at your that instead of playing the technical genious which you obviously aren\'t.
I didn\'t say XBox is better or I like the XBox more because it can do better graphics ;)
I simply said the XBox has the best potential this generation...who is stupid seven?
*you\'ll also loose your repution...*
What does it mean ??:)...I can\'t understand your english...
Why I\'m going to lose my reputation? Because I think XBox is a better piece of hardware than PS2 ? ...please...
...and I\'m not a genius in hardware...and you too obviously !
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
i dont think he looks stupid.. cos i cant understand a ****ing thing he says.. ****ing tech heads *shakes fist*
:p
Sure I don\'t look stupid;) ...that odd human can\'t understand that XBox is a newer hardware...released 1 year and half later...and technically superior...it was my only point...bah...you\'re funny people....
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"They" didn\'t know...they was implied...people who are not interested in hardware...not..."I Didn\'t know..."...you\'re funny...
First of all, you wrote "Didn\'t know that" (see above) and secondly, you were the one to start the crap about how the streaming is done via DVD on PS2 which just proves again that you didn\'t know.
MPR\'s Analysts\' Choice Awards
This is funny - what are you trying to prove? That these guys know which is better? Have they developed for all 3 systems? This proves absolutly nothing. Did you know that the PS2 won these kinds of awards in its year of launch? Proves nothing.
You can\'t even understand english seven...
This is crazy. Your english is probably not even half as good as mine and you are making fun of me? Check the following:
You said:
"I meant...PS2,GC and XBox whould have not enough power to show what I want...and later I added...not sure about the XBox...let\'s wait and see...and not what you\'ve said moron!...look at what I\'ve said..."
I said this in my last post:
"I just read one of your later posts recently where you told everyone how disappointed with PS2 you are and at Sony bla bla bla - and how only the X-box might be able to live up to your high expertations?!"
Maybe I really just don\'t understand your english, but if I look at the two things we said, I was absolutely right: that the Xbox >>MIGHT<< be the only console to live up to your high expertations. Yeah, I "can\'t" understand english. Very funny. LOL.
Can you understand what people say ? Or you\'re totally blinded with your fanboysm ?
May I have an opinion? or you\'re too scared by my opinions?
What\'s the problem?
Maybe you should learn how to express your opinions then, but saying some bull**** about how the PS2 works and all these limitations crap is not opinion - it\'s more like you\'re trying to justify why you think the X-box will be the best, but need to bash on other consoles to do so.
more freedom? fighting with the hardware and showing decent graphics and more or less the same game-play ? That\'s what you mean?
Yes more freedom. Since you probably don\'t program yourself you wouldn\'t understand this anyway - but doing every little thing yourself might be pretty tough, but in the end you can achieve more than just using libraries that other people wrote. The chip design of the PS2 is hardcore and it will shine with time.
Look at the games...and stop to paste and copy garbage taken from the arstechnica forums
Just another sad attempt to make me look bad? Please, if you think I copy/paste this stuff, please show me from where and don\'t forget the link.
And stop to lap up each word from BS developers...you won\'t see "the next gen graphics" on PS2 bacause PS2 can\'t show what Sony promised! Open your blind eyes!
Why are you speculating? It\'s fine by me if you say you\'re impressed with X-Box, but don\'t go out and speculate about how PS2 canot live up to the expetations. You don\'t know that and neither do I. And it\'s the same thing with X-Box too. I could say exactly the same too. What\'s your point?
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I didn\'t say XBox is better or I like the XBox more because it can do better graphics
I simply said the XBox has the best potential this generation...who is stupid seven?
What do you mean with potential? The potential to take the number 1 spot? The potential to deliever the best graphics? The best sound?
It\'s funny how you always have to mention how much better the Xbox is, but really have we seen this "really better" stuff yet? I sure haven\'t. Stop speculating and just enjoy what you like now on whatever concole, but leave the technical stuff you don\'t understand out of debates like these.
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The reflections in Halo are kinda cool though, especially off ice surfaces. :smokin:
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Why are you speculating? It\'s fine by me if you say you\'re impressed with X-Box, but don\'t go out and speculate about how PS2 canot live up to the expetations. You don\'t know that and neither do I. And it\'s the same thing with X-Box too. I could say exactly the same too. What\'s your point?
I\'ve been waiting for months and months games like J&D...I waited almost 2 years seven...and what I\'ve played? ...only a good platform! where\'s the next generation graphics and game-play ND promised? Where is ? a good platform with old game-play! are you happy? I\'m not! AI in J&D is comparable to a PSX platform! ND have been fighting with this hardware...and what did they obtain? Good graphics and old and simple game-play! At least XBox has shown Halo at launch...and I wanna give the XBox the same time I gave to PS2! It\'s my point seven...now is it clear?
Excuse me if I was offensive with you...
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Originally posted by seven
What do you mean with potential? The potential to take the number 1 spot? The potential to deliever the best graphics? The best sound?
I\'m not sure if you\'re joking or...
XBox has more processing power than PS2,more rendering bandwidth,more texture bandwidth,more RAM,better sound capabilities,a built-in HD and easier to develop for = XBox has a better potential...is it clear now? Developers have the potential to do better games...ok?
It\'s funny how you always have to mention how much better the Xbox is, but really have we seen this "really better" stuff yet? I sure haven\'t. Stop speculating and just enjoy what you like now on whatever concole, but leave the technical stuff you don\'t understand out of debates like these.
*but really have we seen this "really better" stuff yet? *
Yet? after 3 months from Launch? but...can you hear me when I speak? err...I mean...can you read? Halo and DOA3 look better than 2nd gen PS2 games in the respective categories...and you say I\'m speculating? funny!
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BizioEE, it\'s pretty late and so I won\'t quote every thing (but I\'ll try not to miss out on something).
I\'m not sure if you\'re joking or...
XBox has more processing power than PS2,more rendering bandwidth,more texture bandwidth,more RAM,better sound capabilities,a built-in HD and easier to develop for = XBox has a better potential...is it clear now? Developers have the potential to do better games...ok?
*but really have we seen this "really better" stuff yet? *
Yet? after 3 months from Launch? but...can you hear me when I speak? err...I mean...can you read? Halo and DOA3 look better than 2nd gen PS2 games in the respective categories...and you say I\'m speculating? funny!
Well, I\'ve played both Xbox games (Halo and DoA3) and the graphics are really gorgeous I will admit. And of course you\'re right, where graphics are concern, PS2 has nothing out (US and PAL) that can compete. But if I may ask you, with what are you comparing DoA3? With
1.) Tekken Tag Tournament? Out since day 1 - not even a real sequel.
or
2.) Dead or Alive 2: HC? Out also since day 1 - not even an original game, but just a sloppy port of the DC "exclusive" game.
As you can see, there are no other games in this genre to compare to DoA3, so logically there is no competition (in terms of graphics). I think it\'s pretty unfair to compare DoA3 with a soon 2 year old game that for one was just a port (DoA2:HC) or an update and rushed launch game (TTT). I think we can all make a pretty good comparasment when Virtua Fighter 4 and Tekken 4 hit shelves. Than we can compare them to DoA3 IMHO.
As for HALO, here too I got to agree that there aren\'t any FPS that can match this game on a a) graphical, b) physics and c) playable scale. But I refuce to think that it\'s the PS2 hardware that limits these points in games like RedFaction or TimeSplitters. I think Halo is a fine peace of coding and the result of a very talented team. I doubt that the effort that went behind Halo was put behind any FPS on PS2 so far (Halo has been in development for years). I\'ll give credit where it\'s due and Halo definately deserves it, but PS2 not having any games comparable yet is not because of its hardware-limitation but more with the effort and learning time.
BizioEE, I know what you mean. I\'ve waited a long time too for Jak & Daxter to arrive and do you know what? I love the game. Not only because of its gameplay but also because of the technical aspects. This is the first game to really implement streaming: as a result, you don\'t have any loading times and the draw distance is incredible. The textures are very detailed, although this might not seem to be true since it\'s all cartoony looking. Just take a close look at all the textures and you will see that they are very colourful and detailed. The other thing that\'s amazing about this game is the way everything seems to be alive. You\'ve got the real time weather effects, the beautiful water, the butterflies, birds, leaves and trees moving, daxter\'s beautiful animations and lots more. No loading times, no drop in framerate. And this game doesn\'t even have everything in it - apprearently the next game will be the fully finished engine which will also feature bump-mapping etc. And BizioEE, it took 2 years for this game to arrive and it\'s undoubtly the first to really make use of the PS2 chip-design. This doesn\'t mean that the Ps2 is maxed out, but that it\'s just the beginning and that they will improve from there. And as far as I can tell, EvolutionStudios (WRC) have made some amazing steps up, V-Rally 3 looks amazing and of course the new TOCA. Hope the screens become reality though, but time will show. I do have the faith and technical understanding to hope that those screens will be real-time running of my PS2 soon. I also can\'t wait to think what GT4 might look like - especially when GT3 supposedly makes out 25% of the EE\'s performance (accoarding by the PA2 == pretty accurate data).
All in all, I think what I really want to convince people around here, is that it doesn\'t really matter which console has the most bandwidth, the most memory or the fastest rendering chip. Almost every article that analyse these consoles are contradicted by the next article on the net, so who are we to believe? What really determins how good a game looks is not necesserally the hardware, but the effort, talent, time and knowledge a developer puts behind their game that makes the difference. That\'s why there are games on PS2 that still outshine Xbox games and vise-versa (each in there own category). Forget the specs and just enjoy the games you play. Which reminds me of which: just played a N64 classic lately (mario tennis) with friends and LOVED IT!
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The Xbox has superior hardware in just about everything, but keep this in mind.
Its not going to magically transform a crap developer into an awesome developer.
It can however take great developers and make it easier for them to get to the hardware and give them more powerfull effects with more frames per second.
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Originally posted by seven
BizioEE, it\'s pretty late and so I won\'t quote every thing (but I\'ll try not to miss out on something).
Well, I\'ve played both Xbox games (Halo and DoA3) and the graphics are really gorgeous I will admit. And of course you\'re right, where graphics are concern, PS2 has nothing out (US and PAL) that can compete. But if I may ask you, with what are you comparing DoA3? With
1.) Tekken Tag Tournament? Out since day 1 - not even a real sequel.
or
2.) Dead or Alive 2: HC? Out also since day 1 - not even an original game, but just a sloppy port of the DC "exclusive" game.
As you can see, there are no other games in this genre to compare to DoA3, so logically there is no competition (in terms of graphics). I think it\'s pretty unfair to compare DoA3 with a soon 2 year old game that for one was just a port (DoA2:HC) or an update and rushed launch game (TTT). I think we can all make a pretty good comparasment when Virtua Fighter 4 and Tekken 4 hit shelves. Than we can compare them to DoA3 IMHO.
DOA3 looks better than VF4 arcade...and FV4 on PS2 looks worse than the arcade,with notable jaggies...and isn\'t it a good and reliable comparison?...well...thinking of it again,I should say NO...bacause DOA3 was developed on unfinished hardware;)...that\'s why I\'m impressed by the graphics capabilities of the XBox...
BizioEE, I know what you mean. I\'ve waited a long time too for Jak & Daxter to arrive and do you know what? I love the game. Not only because of its gameplay but also because of the technical aspects. This is the first game to really implement streaming: as a result, you don\'t have any loading times and the draw distance is incredible. The textures are very detailed, although this might not seem to be true since it\'s all cartoony looking. Just take a close look at all the textures and you will see that they are very colourful and detailed. The other thing that\'s amazing about this game is the way everything seems to be alive. You\'ve got the real time weather effects, the beautiful water, the butterflies, birds, leaves and trees moving, daxter\'s beautiful animations and lots more. No loading times, no drop in framerate.
Don\'t get me wrong...I enjoyed J&D and I consider it a good platform but...I was waiting much more...
Textures are well done...but not very detailed...and the water is not beautiful...it\'s an evolution over the water in Crash of PSX! The animations are smooth but I\'m not impressed overall,and the trees? Why are you impressed by the animations of the trees in J&D?...they\'re nice,not impressive...maybe it\'s just me...and I\'ve seen drop in framerate...
And this game doesn\'t even have everything in it - apprearently the next game will be the fully finished engine which will also feature bump-mapping etc. And BizioEE, it took 2 years for this game to arrive and it\'s undoubtly the first to really make use of the PS2 chip-design. This doesn\'t mean that the Ps2 is maxed out, but that it\'s just the beginning and that they will improve from there.
I hope seven! I don\'t want a J&D 2 with some improvements in graphics with the possibilities to control some other characters,some extra moves and the same game-play(look at crash)...but it\'s what will probably happen...I hope to be wrong though !!!
All in all, I think what I really want to convince people around here, is that it doesn\'t really matter which console has the most bandwidth, the most memory or the fastest rendering chip. Almost every article that analyse these consoles are contradicted by the next article on the net, so who are we to believe?
Agreed...though a new hardware which is released 1 year and half later should be more powerful...it\'s how technology works...
What really determins how good a game looks is not necesserally the hardware, but the effort, talent, time and knowledge a developer puts behind their game that makes the difference. That\'s why there are games on PS2 that still outshine Xbox games and vise-versa (each in there own category). Forget the specs and just enjoy the games you play. Which reminds me of which: just played a N64 classic lately (mario tennis) with friends and LOVED IT!
You know each reasonable guy have to agree with you...it\'s not the hardware alone which makes the difference,developers do!
...so a crappy developer on the best hardware will always produce a crappy game! but it\'s another story...
In a word...I hope Sony will conceive PS3 with this IDEA in mind :
A powerful and balanced console which will allow developers to focus on game-play rather than fighting with the hardware to understand how to push it...it\'s a waste of time and money and it\'s not good for us gamers.
...I want "revolution" in the Games...not in the way data run from a piece of hardware to another!
And to finish,I wanna apologize to you for some uneducated words I said(it was a stressful week for me) and I\'d finish my speech with a toast to us gamers...""for a better gaming experience in the near future!"":fro:
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DOA3 looks better than VF4 arcade...and FV4 on PS2 looks worse than the arcade,with notable jaggies...and isn\'t it a good and reliable comparison?...well...thinking of it again,I should say NO...bacause DOA3 was developed on unfinished hardware...that\'s why I\'m impressed by the graphics capabilities of the XBox...
But VF4 was a port of the Naomi2 hardware.
It was not built from scratch on the PS2. You of all should know that PS2 reqiuers "1337" (I just said that at a lame attempt trying to be funny, the real word is spacific) programming knowledge ;)
We will see SEGAs next game.. Hopefully NOT a port.
SEGAs CEO has said "VF4 is just the beginning"
Btw, I cant beleive you still are using that "Not finished hardware" crap MS though up during the very unimpressive E3, TGS and Gamestock shows.
Btw while we are talking graphics I think SC2 will be the most impressive, its developed on System 246 which is basically the PS2 (I don’t know if it has more main memory though) and therefore it should not be a problem “porting” it to PS2.
I wonder how the other 2 ports will turn out, considering its programmed for PS2 and uses PS2 specific code. :)
Don\'t get me wrong...I enjoyed J&D and I consider it a good platform but...I was waiting much more...
Textures are well done...but not very detailed...and the water is not beautiful...it\'s an evolution over the water in Crash of PSX! The animations are smooth but I\'m not impressed overall,and the trees? Why are you impressed by the animations of the trees in J&D?...they\'re nice,not impressive...maybe it\'s just me...and I\'ve seen drop in framerate...
I was very impressed by Jak and Daxter.
The drawdistance was the best thing about it. (talking graphics wise)
Maybe you can show me an Xbox game that blows it out of the water?
I hope seven! I don\'t want a J&D 2 with some improvements in graphics with the possibilities to control some other characters,some extra moves and the same game-play(look at crash)...but it\'s what will probably happen...I hope to be wrong though !!!
Jak and Daxter was Naughty Dogs first game on the PS2. Surly the next game will have alot of improvements from the first one.
As Ive said many times before Sony has now a complete libary in the devkits (they are still improving) and some nice dev friendly programs have been released. Sonys own Performance Analyzer 2, which the TimeSplitters 2 developers were talking about (they said it took snapshots of the code and showed there areas where you put to much strain on the hardware ect. they called it a very nice and helpful tool) and VectorC which lets you code C++ code instead of Assamble code when programming the VectorUnits. Should save you alot of time.
Plus Naughty Dog programmer Jason Rubin said in an interview at uk.playstation.com (I cant access the site right now cuz the server is damn slow and its getting late..) that there is a lot to squeeze out from the PS2 still.
Agreed...though a new hardware which is released 1 year and half later should be more powerful...it\'s how technology works...
Ofcouse.. But by how much? You really believe that 3x crap?
You know each reasonable guy have to agree with you...it\'s not the hardware alone which makes the difference,developers do!
...so a crappy developer on the best hardware will always produce a crappy game! but it\'s another story...
So why are you *****ing about it? Complain on the developers, not PS2!
In a word...I hope Sony will conceive PS3 with this IDEA in mind :
A powerful and balanced console which will allow developers to focus on game-play rather than fighting with the hardware to understand how to push it...it\'s a waste of time and money and it\'s not good for us gamers.
...I want "revolution" in the Games...not in the way data run from a piece of hardware to another!
Im glad Sony made PS2 the way it is.. Why? They tried something new. Not the same PC architecture that the xbox uses.
The PS2 is the dominant console so the new architecture of the PS2 will become more known. A lot of developers will have worked with the PS2 and understands how it works.
Therefore Sony can make the PS3 based on the PS2 architecture and developers will not have the same kind of difficulties understanding it like they had with PS2.
But there are a few things that they could improve on the PS2.. :)
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I don\'t know why people find it so hard to believe that something released over a year after the PS2 can be a little bit better (in terms of hardware). Seriously, if you just admit to it you are not betraying your PS2.
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamespydaily.com%2Fscreenshots%2F2971%2FStealth.jpg&hash=f4d11c375e51ac553470a753ce276527dda3adb0)
Eye yam we todd did.
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But VF4 was a port of the Naomi2 hardware.
It was not built from scratch on the PS2. You of all should know that PS2 reqiuers "1337" (I just said that at a lame attempt trying to be funny, the real word is spacific) programming knowledge
We will see SEGAs next game.. Hopefully NOT a port.
SEGAs CEO has said "VF4 is just the beginning"
Btw, I cant beleive you still are using that "Not finished hardware" crap MS though up during the very unimpressive E3, TGS and Gamestock shows.
The"not finished hardware" issue,as you define it "crap",it\'s simply the truth,and it\'s what happened to PS2 at first...when most of the games looked inferior than the best DC games...
...and there were a lot of people,me included,who\'s been saying for months and months to wait at least two years to see the potential of this "incredible" console...the untapped power...and now you\'re complaining about the first E3 for the XBox ? after 2 years there\'re not games on PS2 which can compete graphically with Halo and DOA3...and people try to find an excuse? bla bla it\'s a port from the arcade,it\'s the first attempt...and what is it DOA3? It\'s a launch game developed on unfinished hardware...why crap? it\'s the truth! Give the XBox the same time we gave to PS2 before talking crap...*Show me on the XBox something that blows J&D out of the water*...after 3 months from Launch? When PS2 couldn\'t even compare to DC at first...
XBox is a complex piece of hardware and needs a lot more time to bu fully maximized...PS2 is not exclusive to this...
Btw while we are talking graphics I think SC2 will be the most impressive, its developed on System 246 which is basically the PS2 (I don’t know if it has more main memory though) and therefore it should not be a problem “porting” it to PS2.
I wonder how the other 2 ports will turn out, considering its programmed for PS2 and uses PS2 specific code.
The System 246 has a lot more RAM than PS2 and from what I\'ve seen DOA3 looks still better!
Ofcouse.. But by how much? You really believe that 3x crap?
Well...it\'s difficult to quantify how much a console is more powerful than another,the term "power" is too generic and there\'re a lot of factors to consider...
I think PS2 is 3-4 times more powerful than DC in some areas,and more or less the same in some other...but...looking at the games,when PS2 was released...would you have said that?
It\'s the reason why XBox could be even 3 times more powerful than PS2...and you could not notice it through your eyes! 3 times more powerful,overall,doesn\'t mean that games will look like film...
...the hardware could process the same number of polys with a lot more instructions for poly...proving hypothetically to be 2x more powerful in that area,and you could not notice the 2x factor,because your eyes can\'t measure it!
I was very impressed by Jak and Daxter.
The drawdistance was the best thing about it. (talking graphics wise)
ND talked about a Next Gen Game,next gen graphics and next gen game-play ----> people\'s expectation grew ----> me played J&D ----> me not happy !
Nothing new about game-play,nothing!
I\'m glad for you...if you were impressed by this game!
IMO I\'ll look at XBox games with the same critical eye...
...I\'ll play Project Ego...and a lot of other games...and then!...only then I\'ll judge...I\'ll give the XBox the time it needs!...as I did with PS2!
So why are you *****ing about it? Complain on the developers, not PS2!
I said XBox has more potential...only this...and I\'m sorry people got into a huff...
Obviously the developers make the difference...and sure great developers will make wonderful things on the XBox...so...why missig the opportunity to play great games on the X?
Shouldn\'t it be better to wait a little more instead of bashing the X like scared kids?
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Originally posted by PSX_J
Well Bruce did do alot of his movies in the 60\'s or 70\'s. (cant remember when he died) so that might explain the whole disco thing
he died in 73.
as for this game..
add it too the long list of bruce lee shockers.
I don\'t think there is 1 decent bruce lee game.
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XBox has more processing power than PS2,more rendering bandwidth,more texture bandwidth,more RAM,better
I do not wish to debate on all the other pointless issue as I\'m enjoying so many PS2 games.. :)
But that statement is definitely WRONG. The x-Box use a unified memory system whereby the 6GB/s of bandwidth and 64MB RAM is shared among texture, sound, program and data. While the PS2 has a DEDICATED 40GB/s of bandwidth for the graphics alone.
In fact for all it\'s processing power, the bandwidth issue and the puny CPU is the X-Box weakest link. That is why Halo only managed a 30fps frame rate. It can process all the data u want but if it can not be transfered quickly enough, it\'s of no use either.
Still considering most games on TV will be rendered at 640x480, the X-Box should be relatively safe(to get decent to good frame rates) as long as it isn\'t push too hard (like trying to achieve a 4XFSAA in a complicated scene).
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Originally posted by Paul
I do not wish to debate on all the other pointless issue as I\'m enjoying so many PS2 games.. :)
You do not wish to debate on all the other pointless issue because you can\'t:)
In fact for all it\'s processing power, the bandwidth issue and the puny CPU is the X-Box weakest link. That is why Halo only managed a 30fps frame rate.
May you elaborate? It\'s interesting...
But that statement is definitely WRONG. The x-Box use a unified memory system whereby the 6GB/s of bandwidth and 64MB RAM is shared among texture, sound, program and data. While the PS2 has a DEDICATED 40GB/s of bandwidth for the graphics alone.
64MB RAM is shared among texture,sound,etc...but almost everything is compressed in the XBox(for example the Real-time Hardware Texture Decompression (S3TC) - 6:1) plus the XBox has a built in hard disk...XBox has plenty of RAM to deal with...more than PS2 and GC...
and about bandwidth...you have no idea what you\'re speaking about...
Please let\'s stop talking about specs...you forced me to reply...
I\'ve just said everything above...
me too wanna enjoy games...the only thing I want is great games!
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That is why Halo only managed a 30fps frame rate.
im still pissed about that
i swear im gonna go blind playing co-op
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Originally posted by mm
im still pissed about that
i swear im gonna go blind playing co-op
are you shure you have not been playing DOA3 with the Nude code on :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:p
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The"not finished hardware" issue,as you define it "crap",it\'s simply the truth,and it\'s what happened to PS2 at first...when most of the games looked inferior than the best DC games...
TTT had roughly about 4 month\'s development time (I think on finished hardware). As a result, it was seriously rushed, didn\'t have AA at all. And the buddies at Tecmo did have enough time to make it as good as it looks. Or explain to us why DoA3 is the only game that already uses the vertex-shaders? Or which guy said that DoA3 was technically inpossible on any other next gen console? X-box being 3 to 5 times more powerful? This crap about unfinished kits won\'t get us far.
ND talked about a Next Gen Game,next gen graphics and next gen game-play ----> people\'s expectation grew ----> me played J&D ----> me not happy !
Show me an Xbox game on any console that has so much going on on-screen? You have real time lightning-effects (day/night), you have roughly 13 million polys, heaps of different textures (and the detail, check them again, especially on the houses), the fluid animation, water, draw-distance... it might not be new gameplay, but in terms of technical achievement, this game is not disappointing.
64MB RAM is shared among texture,sound,etc...but almost everything is compressed in the XBox(for example the Real-time Hardware Texture Decompression (S3TC) - 6:1) plus the XBox has a built in hard disk...XBox has plenty of RAM to deal with...more than PS2 and GC...
Harddisc != RAM. Just think of it like this: You have 64 MB RAM which stores compressed textures, digital sound (ever wonder how much digital surround takes up?), I/O instructions, program code and the framebuffer. Ever read any interviews with developers and asked the question why most launch games don\'t have AA? Because there isn\'t enough bandwidth and memory for it - and don\'t give me those tech articles. The games are showing it. The thing with X-box is, it not only can access the data at 6.4GB/s, it also has to send data back to the RAM. A two way connection could easily split that bandwidth into 3.2GB/s out and 3.2GB/s in. It\'s up to the developer. Ps2 on the other hand has the potential 48 GB/s to burn. That is 10 GB/s (512-bit) for textures (one-way) and 38 GB/s (2048-bit) for framebuffer and other data (two-way). So, don\'t tell any of us that X-box has more bandwidth. And btw: if you thought Ps2 doesn\'t have any compressed textures, you\'re wrong. While the GS can\'t handle compressed images, the EE very well can. It can decompress them on the fly and so the images can also be stored in a compressed state.
BTW: did you notice why J&D is so good in terms of technical achievement? It\'s one of the first games that has got absolutely no loading times. Instead of saving all the textures into the RAM for one scene (== loading time), only the necessary ones are saved there and streamed over. As a result, images are never cached in the main-RAM so it doesn\'t take up memory and are contineously streamed over to the GS where they are displayed. X-box will be able to do this too, but only via harddrive and I am not sure at what rate since the X-box has limited bandwidth to do things like this. I wonder how far developers can get once they get the hang of this...
And to finish,I wanna apologize to you for some uneducated words I said(it was a stressful week for me) and I\'d finish my speech with a toast to us gamers...""for a better gaming experience in the near future!""
That\'s okay. I am used to it that things get heated up quickly anyway. As long as we can continue this debate in a educated way then it\'s no problem. ;)
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are you shure you have not been playing DOA3 with the Nude code on
ACK! my secret is out!
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before this gets into a nasty technical war where everyone posts articles from else where, let me clear something up with what I ment above about the bandwidth on X-box:
the bandwidth is plenty, even if they want to use AA - but they will get into bandwidth problems pretty fast if they make too extensive use of textures and other in-game effects. The more textures you want, the more bandwidth you use. The question is, how much can bandwidth be used, while still being able to implement AA? X-box launch games don\'t have AA and not even all the newer ones have it? Why? To keep texture detail and other stuff up. Or perhaps to maintain 60 fps?
The 6.4 GB/s in X-box is shared bandwidth, while PS2 has got ~10 GB/s dedicated texture bandwidth and ~38 GB/s dedicated bandwidth for the framebuffer.
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Man, I wish the Nishis were here. They know a lot more about the PS2 hardware than I know about the back of my hand.
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Show me an Xbox game on any console that has so much going on on-screen? You have real time lightning-effects (day/night), you have roughly 13 million polys, heaps of different textures (and the detail, check them again, especially on the houses), the fluid animation, water, draw-distance... it might not be new gameplay, but in terms of technical achievement, this game is not disappointing.
Halo is more impressive for me,overall ! speaking of graphics,physics and AI !
Don\'t look at the number of polys...look at the number of instructions per poly...it\'s more meaningful !
before this gets into a nasty technical war where everyone posts articles from else where, let me clear something up with what I ment above about the bandwidth on X-box:
the bandwidth is plenty, even if they want to use AA - but they will get into bandwidth problems pretty fast if they make too extensive use of textures and other in-game effects. The more textures you want, the more bandwidth you use. The question is, how much can bandwidth be used, while still being able to implement AA? X-box launch games don\'t have AA and not even all the newer ones have it? Why? To keep texture detail and other stuff up. Or perhaps to maintain 60 fps?
It\'s the point seven,developers will have to fight to maximize the UMA architecture,it\'s not so easy! Consoles are not PCs...you have a fixed piece of hardware and year after year you have to "fight" to find the way to do more and more...it\'s why you can\'t see all the power of the XBox at launch,or right now...it\'s why developers at first have to come to compromise...it happened for PSX,N64,DC,PS2...and now XBox...
I know you\'re intelligent seven(well...a little bs though:) ) and you understand it very well !
XBox has a fixed memory bandwidth(6.4...) and now it\'s up to developers to do the best they can...year after year...
The fact that XBox has theoretically enough banwidth to do "everything it has in the specs" in most of scenarious,it doesn\'t mean it\'s easy to do...and it doesn\'t mean you\'ll have everything at Launch!
The 6.4 GB/s in X-box is shared bandwidth, while PS2 has got ~10 GB/s dedicated texture bandwidth and ~38 GB/s dedicated bandwidth for the framebuffer.
seven,you can\'t put some numbers on paper and leave:)
The XGPU was designed to be as miserly in its memory usage as possible,it has Real-time Hardware Texture Decompression (S3TC),multi-texturing,per-pixel DOT3 bump-mapping.
The GS does not feature any of the pixel or vertex shading capabilities of the NV2A,no real-time hardware Texture Decompression,and it derives most of its power from extreme parallelism. While the NV2A has four parallel pixel pipelines, the GS has a total of 16,and you have to feed regularly with data each of the 16 parallel pixel pipelines in order to extract the most performance out of the processor...in a few words...I won\'t start another "crap":) but I wanted to make this clear...the 2 consoles work in a different way and it\'s not possible to compare the raw numbers of bandwidth alone...
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the 2 consoles work in a different way and it\'s not possible to compare the raw numbers of bandwidth alone...
Thank you BizioEE, you finally said it. If you yourself admit that both consoles work so different, was it necessary to say "XBox has more processing power than PS2,more rendering bandwidth,more texture bandwidth,more RAM,better sound capabilities,a built-in HD" etc even if it\'s clear that both work so different?
Xbox has great potential yes, but it also has its limits and developers are already fighting it now. Halo runs at 30 fps and most games don\'t even have AA - and remember what Microsoft said? Remember what Tecmo said? You of all should know that I never said PS2 was better, but just that it\'s different and that both outclass eachother in certain areas. You might name Halo being a flagship title, I have MGS2 which blew me away. IMHO, they are still more or less up to par in the whole run and it will be interesting to see which console will eventually outclass the other. It won\'t matter to me since I doubt that the differences will be that big and both consoles will shine in their way (may it be gameplay, graphics etc).
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You do not wish to debate on all the other pointless issue because you can\'t
No you sissy, it\'s because I\'ve so many games to play that i don\'t have so much time arguing with u(not to mentioned I\'ve a real world life to live) coz u got nothing to show for other than incorrect tech explanation and YES, the X-Box has a SMALLER bandwidth than the PS2(as explained in detail by seven) and YES, the X-Box does has more GPU processing power.
Satisfied???
In fact for all it\'s processing power, the bandwidth issue and the puny CPU is the X-Box weakest link. That is why Halo only managed a 30fps frame rate.
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May you elaborate? It\'s interesting...
It\'s simple..it means your all mighty and powerful X-Box broke sweat when trying to shift all those wonderful texture, and micro-polygons,and lens flare, AI, transparancies all over the system and realized that trying to do 60fps with all those wonderful graphics and details over the 6.4GB bandwidth is NOT possible. Is that so hard to decipher??? :D
...look at the number of instructions per poly...it\'s more meaningful !
instruction per poly is more meaningful. That\'s the funniest marketing blabber I heard all year long.
Hey I got a better one, maybe \'micro pixels per semi-poly is more erotic and sexy than nude polygons with no clothes on\'??
Damn, SONY better hire me as their Hype-generating manager. :D
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No you sissy, it\'s because I\'ve so many games to play that i don\'t have so much time arguing with u(not to mentioned I\'ve a real world life to live)
Do you have a real world life? I\'m impressed !
coz u got nothing to show for other than incorrect tech explanation and YES, the X-Box has a SMALLER bandwidth than the PS2(as explained in detail by seven)
XBox has more effective bandwidth than PS2...and seven did explain nothing!
Satisfied???
Yes...now I know you\'re retarded!;)
It\'s simple..it means your all mighty and powerful X-Box broke sweat when trying to shift all those wonderful texture, and micro-polygons,and lens flare, AI, transparancies all over the system and realized that trying to do 60fps with all those wonderful graphics and details over the 6.4GB bandwidth is NOT possible. Is that so hard to decipher???
You didn\'t explain to me why it\'s not possible....
But you confirmed me you\'re retarded!:)
Thank you BizioEE, you finally said it. If you yourself admit that both consoles work so different, was it necessary to say "XBox has more processing power than PS2,more rendering bandwidth,more texture bandwidth,more RAM,better sound capabilities,a built-in HD" etc even if it\'s clear that both work so different?
Both consoles work in a different way...but it doesn\'t change the fact XBox is more competitive in almost everything(and it has more effective bandwidth)...THE END...I\'m tired...
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XBox has more effective bandwidth than PS2...and seven did explain nothing!
Yes I did. I proved you wrong above. If you think you know it better, please do so by proving me wrong. :)
Both consoles work in a different way...but it doesn\'t change the fact XBox is more competitive in almost everything(XBox has more effective bandwidth)...THE END...I\'m tired...
contradiction anyone? :D
I love it when people say things without the knowledge to back them up, but still make it to be fact. *seven shakes his head*
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contradiction anyone?
I love it when people say things without the knowledge to back them up, but still make it to be fact. *seven shakes his head*
seven,I don\'t see any contradiction,you\'re the one without knowledge,and you\'ve proved nothing because you can\'t:)
I could show you a lot of material and you\'d say it\'s BS...
...try to show your crap to TeamXbox Forums,and try to debate with Gking...I\'m just laughing...and I feel you\'ve already proved...
I\'m tired to speak with you,it\'s not interesting,and I\'ve just said everything above...ADIOS!
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Originally posted by BizioEE
seven,I don\'t see any contradiction,you\'re the one without knowledge,and you\'ve proved nothing because you can\'t:)
I could show you a lot of material and you\'d say it\'s BS...
...try to show your crap to TeamXbox Forums,and try to debate with Gking...I\'m just laughing...and I feel you\'ve already proved...
I\'m tired to speak with you,it\'s not interesting,and I\'ve just said everything above...ADIOS!
Ohhh TeamXbox.. Please dont hang with those retards.
If you\'re interested in tech I recomend Ars forums, alot better.
+ people know wtf they are talking about.
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teamxbox
*shudder*
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Originally posted by Terry Bogard
http://www.gamespydaily.com/news/screenshots.asp?id=2971
Wow, This game really looks like a game that CAN\'T be done on PS2.
.
well this game is coming on the Playstation 2,Gamecube,Gameboy Advance
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Originally posted by MAKAVELIUK
well this game is coming on the Playstation 2,Gamecube,Gameboy Advance
I thought it was developed by Microsoft 1st party devs.
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I know you\'re intelligent seven(well...a little bs though ) and you understand it very well
seven,I don\'t see any contradiction,you\'re the one without knowledge
This BizioEE is a prime example of contradiction.
...try to show your crap to TeamXbox Forums,and try to debate with Gking...I\'m just laughing...and I feel you\'ve already proved...
TeamXbox forums? Nah, I feel that I am above their standards. But I am sure you would fit in nicely there. I\'m sure you\'d get more credit there than you are here...
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Playable code of Bruce Lee on Xbox was on display in France for the first time earlier this week, as we spoke with the senior producer, Jonathan Eubanks, who outlined his multiformat vision
15:40 Hard. As. Nails. Bruce Lee was never the sort of person whose pint you\'d want to spill, and his ascetic, life-long dedication to the study of martial arts will be remembered for years to come. It\'s been a long time since we\'ve seen a Bruce Lee videogame, but Vivendi Universal has finally taken the plunge, bringing the legendary fighter onto all major consoles formats in the not-too-distant future. Bruce Lee on Xbox is the first title to see the light of day; the game was displayed for the very first time in France on Tuesday.
Boasting stunning graphical qualities, the game provides a vivid, striking recreation of Lee, as he fights his way through a traditional Japanese setting, punching the crap out of ceaseless torrents of enemies that stand in his way. Present at the event was senior producer of the title, Jonathan Eubanks, who demonstrated the title for us, before discussing his elaborate vision in detail. Here\'s the full transcript:
What\'s the story behind the game? Is it based on any of his movies?
Eubanks - No, it doesn\'t do any of that. We can\'t do anything that was in the movies because we don\'t have the licence for that. What Universal owns is the licence to the image of Bruce Lee, so we can use him in any setting we want to, whereas those with the movie licence can\'t do that at all. We\'re in a good position.
Bruce Lee\'s father has been kidnapped and at the same a dragon relic has stolen - Bruce must get this back and his father. The game is held together by cinematics that direct the storyline, with about 50 in-game cinematics and 60 streaming cinematics, and within those there are over 700 lines of dialogue and in the game there are over 1500 lines of dialogue.
With this game we spared no graphic quality - as you can see, it has everything in terms of look and feel.
How does the fight system work. If there are several people around you can you lock onto one of them?
Eubanks - Yes. If you use the left trigger you can lock onto the nearest enemy and then if somebody goes behind you [demonstrates hitting someone behind Lee, using right analogue stick] you can hit them. The fight system is direction based.
What weapons are available?
Eubanks - In this game, only the nunchukas - that\'s not because we couldn\'t do it; it\'s because of some of the design disputes we had. Originally the game went in another direction that I didn\'t like, and as a result we had to change it and go back to what we were trying to do. In order to get the game out in time, we weren\'t able to implement additional weapons.
In the future games, Bruce will only be able to use the weapons he used in the movies: the long bow-staff; throwing wood darts. Also, this will be the only Bruce game that you ever see where he fights a female character, because of the wishes of his estate. I do agree with it, and the only reason it made it into this version was that we made that the argument that our core gamers expect to be able to fight women characters.
Have you encountered any other problems regarding the license?
Eubanks - He can\'t swear, obviously, and we won\'t have that in the game anyway. Also, there\'s no blood.
Which consoles is Bruce Lee going to appear on?
Eubanks - I\'m gonna have it everywhere. Next year it will be on PS2, Xbox, Gamecube, GBA: it\'ll be everywhere - every platform. Also, I\'m gonna make two different types of game; I\'m gonna have two games going simultaneously - that\'s my hope and my vision. What I want is one that is purely an arena fighter, and another that is an adventure game.
An arena fighter like Tekken of VF 4?
Eubanks - Right. I want to have to have one like that, and the other one - the adventure game - will be like [the Xbox version] but less arcadey and more realistic. If you see here, he\'s on fire - if you hit the black button it gives him some dragon power. The adventure game will be ultra-realsitic: he\'ll do things like climbing poles and ropes, fighting and sneaking - some of the things you\'ll see in Metal Gear Solid 2. The story will be different in terms of how it\'s conveyed in the game experience.
Have you started work on the arena fighting game?
Eubanks - Not yet - I\'m laying the design out right now and trying to work out some details. However, I have pretty much started the next PS2 version.
Will it be the same as the current Xbox version?
Eubanks - No; a separate game by a separate developer. This one is very cosmetic, very glossy - the other one will be, like I said, ultra-realistic. This is realistic, but has some unrealistic elements.
Is this because the PS2 simply cannot handle some of the things you\'re doing with Xbox?
Eubanks - Right. [With the PS2 version] I\'m really gonna be focused on making a super, great game without being so much concerned with the deep graphic quality people expect to see on the Xbox. For the Xbox, it was the first time and we wanted to get the reflection mapping, bump mapping and all that kind of stuff. It\'s a good game. It really is a solid, good game, but for the next one I\'m gonna go even deeper.
What about the GameCube version?
Eubanks - I plan on making the game so you won\'t see any changes: what you see on PS2 is what you see on GameCube, and what you see on Xbox is what you see on GameCube - I won\'t change anything. That\'s how people will have to take it. If there\'s stuff that is easy to do on a particular console, then I\'ll make that change, but for the most part I intend on accommodating the game on all platforms. If I can do it, it\'ll be everywhere.
And on the GBA?
Eubanks - That\'s kind of tricky. Even though I\'m very much inclined to do it on GBA, I\'m concerned about being able to see it. If this is on GBA, is it going to look good? I want to avoid too much negative criticism, and I think if the game comes on GBA then I\'m going to be open to that. I don\'t like the dark screen.
Why make a game about Bruce Lee in the first place?
Eubanks - I\'m a Bruce Lee fanatic, have been all my life. If you knew my family, they\'d tell you I was born to do just this - if there was no God, he would have been mine. When I came to Universal it was like: "What? Bruce Lee? I\'ll quit whatever I\'m doing to do this."
What fighting style have you used?
Eubanks - It\'s very authentic - called jeet-kune-do: that means the way of the intercepting fist, which Bruce invented. It was designed to make martial arts economical. In this game, I took a chance by copying that, as it\'s not always glamorous. In other fight games they do all these crazy things that defy the laws of gravity, whereas his moves are very real.
Is the Xbox version the only one we\'ll see released this year?
Eubanks - The Xbox is the only version that will appear this year. There\'s a possibility of the GBA, but I\'m trying to cancel it. It depends - if I can get something that looks really good, I\'ll go with it. I just don\'t like the dark screen. If it was backlit it would be great - I just don\'t want to put it out there and risk it.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com
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interesting read, thank you.
Eubanks - Right. [With the PS2 version] I\'m really gonna be focused on making a super, great game without being so much concerned with the deep graphic quality people expect to see on the Xbox. For the Xbox, it was the first time and we wanted to get the reflection mapping, bump mapping and all that kind of stuff.
Eubanks - I plan on making the game so you won\'t see any changes: what you see on PS2 is what you see on GameCube, and what you see on Xbox is what you see on GameCube - I won\'t change anything. That\'s how people will have to take it.
WTF? Will they look the same or not?
Oh and from who is this interview?
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I played this game... oh wait that was on my SNES emulator... :)