PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Alkimo on February 22, 2002, 02:23:21 AM
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hey people, how\'s it going?
couldn\'t do this earlier, because i was real sick for the past week or so...
changed my mind about writing out that full mathematical theory against evolution, because they\'re longer than i though, and it\'s impossible without word processing. but i can do the next best thing...
that theory (and many others in different scientific fields) can be found in "in six days - why 50 scientists choose to believe in creation", edited by John F Ashton PhD, by New Holland Publishers, 1999.
This book have essays by 50 (oh duh...) scientists that seriously discredits the evolution theory from many different (new and old) fields of science.
if anyone had read "Teaching About Evolution and the Nature of Science" by the National Academy of Sciences, they should also read "Refuting Evolution", Jonathan Sarfati PhD, published by Answers in Genesis, 1999.
"Refuting Evolution" is a response to "Teaching About Evolution and the Nature of Science", picking out plenty of flaws and stupid things...
i\'d recommend anyone who wouldn\'t consider/believe in creation to read the book(s).
uni\'s gonna start again next week, so less ps2 time...
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This book have essays by 50 (oh duh...) scientists that seriously discredits the evolution theory from many different (new and old) fields of science.
and like there isnt 5 million scientists out there that can discredit the creation theory
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Christ...now to hope that this topic doesn\'t go for 200+ replies...
See YUz.
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Here\'s number 3...
How about a book called "50 retarded scientists who wouldn\'t know their a$$es from a hole in the ground."
:laughing:
There, I even laughed at my own joke, thumpy!
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Theories supporting evolution have been falsified, so when you say evolution is a scam, that is correct.:cool:
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Sheesh, we can never progress if we never question popular theory.
I\'m not sure that I believe 100% in the theory of evolution, but if that is the way it happened I believe that God was the one that got it all started. The probability of amino acids forming in primordial ooze is really, extremely low. The experiments done on primordial ooze created in the lab usually produces satisfyable results, but then again most will agree that the conditions under which the prmordial ooze was way back when can not be reproduced today.
Who\'s to say that evolution wasn\'t God\'s plan of creation?
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I for one believe 100% in evolution. Everything about this \'theory\' (at least what I have read) makes perfect sense. But everyone is free to believe what they want to believe.
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I think it\'s funny that religious people can produce "Scientific evidence" that supports the creation theory that someone HAD to make us a few thousand years ago, but can turn around and say "GOD?.... Oh, he\'s been around forever. He\'s Eternal." They fail to theorize about how God was created, "No one created him... He just IS!!!"
The Universe is a fractal. It is made up of cycles within cycles and I think the Human cycle is, and has been too short and too uninteligent to be able to comprehend the inner and outer workings of this fractal we live in called the Universe.
Kind of like dogs and cats that see the television and hear the sounds coming from it but they can\'t get the message that there is a new birth-control pill commercial on.
I have a theory that we may have "Jumped Ship" onto this planet.
Let\'s just say there was a planet like earth a long time ago with animals & humans that was in a death cycle toward the sun. They most likely had the collective intelegence that we have and they had a plan to create a planet suitable for human life. This would explain why animals & dinosaurs existed before man, they were waiting to see how the ecosystem would balance out before placing people on the planet. This was a long-term planitary goal to extend the cycle. We here on Earth are already planning to create a planet that will sustain life after earth is too close to the sun. We have been studying Mars and have been trying to figure out how to make it just like Earth.
The fractal of the Universe has given us the method to do this and I think I know the way it will happen!!!!
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Im not gonna sit here and start questioning religions and such ... but one thing that always bothers me about my religion ( i am catholic ( sp? ) ) is how 2000 years ago god appeared to all these people and told them what to do.. well did god decide to sit on his ass for 2000 years?
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In a universe as vast and diverse as this, it only makes sense that the laws of probability state that a planet such as ours would form and provide the building blocks of life. Chemicals and random protiens combine in the primordial soup, add an electrical charge, (lightning, chemical, ) and voila! basic life building blocks. given enough time (4.5 billion years is a long goddamn time) and see what happens. It\'s not belittling the human race to state that we are nothing more than the end result of billions of years of ramdom occurances, it should fill us with even more awe and respect for our own existence. It does for me. All through history, organized religions have been beating ideas into peoples\' heads, only to be proven wrong as our understanding of the laws of physics and science in general progresses. Are there still religious groups killing people for disagreeing with them when they state that the earth is flat, that the earth is the center of the solar system? No. Why? The facts are overwhelming. As they will soon be on the debate over evolution. It\'s all a matter of time, my friends. :)
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Originally posted by mm
and like there isnt 5 million scientists out there that can discredit the creation theory
I agree with this man^^^^^^, a bunch of scientist say one thing and some scientist disagree, whoop-de-do, personally evolution sounds plausible to me
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In responce to juslight\'s post. Most scientific back-ups to the creation theory should also have an explination as to why God is eternal. I do not have the answer, but in-depth study of time and our universe does indicate cycles, which logically requires an eternal entity in which to regulate the cycle. Many religions choose to represent this entity as God.
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Originally posted by juslight
but can turn around and say "GOD?.... Oh, he\'s been around forever. He\'s Eternal." They fail to theorize about how God was created, "No one created him... He just IS!!!"
Mate, that\'s one of the things that I can\'t understand. I\'m religious but... that\'s a nonsense. Explain me that !
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here\'s what i say about this..
Don\'t question evolution, Just accept it. :)
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Tell me, if I get 50 priests to discredit creationism, would you stop believing in it? Didn\'t think so.
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
here\'s what i say about this..
Don\'t question evolution, Just accept it. :)
Funny, that\'s kinda like religion. ;)
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i don\'t have any religion. Never have never will.
But i don\'t really care how we came to be. I live in the moment.. not the past. :)
Anyway, even if we did know how we came to be. Would that really change anything?
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
Anyway, even if we did know how we came to be. Would that really change anything?
Knowledge of true past creates insight to more probable futures.
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[SIZE=8]D I N O S A U R S[/SIZE]
There. Now this thread should get 250 repsones.
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if it is evolution......who is it to say that we are done evolving......we might end up looking like the Aliens we always think see with the big eyes :alien: when people get abducted.
here is another thought..........maybe we are all brainwashed by our own minds.........
:hat:ScottyJ:hat:
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Originally posted by KillaX
if it is evolution......who is it to say that we are done evolving......we might end up looking like the Aliens we always think see with the big eyes :alien: when people get abducted.
here is another thought..........maybe we are all brainwashed by our own minds.........
:hat:ScottyJ:hat:
Nobody said we are done evolving, it just takes a lot of time.
I doubt we would actually think we look like aliens because we would, overtime, get used to our appearances... besides, I don\'t think we\'re going to change based on looks, probably it\'s going to be internal.
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Originally posted by juslight
I think it\'s funny that religious people can produce "Scientific evidence" that supports the creation theory that someone HAD to make us a few thousand years ago, but can turn around and say "GOD?.... Oh, he\'s been around forever. He\'s Eternal." They fail to theorize about how God was created, "No one created him... He just IS!!!"
The Universe is a fractal. It is made up of cycles within cycles and I think the Human cycle is, and has been too short and too uninteligent to be able to comprehend the inner and outer workings of this fractal we live in called the Universe.
Kind of like dogs and cats that see the television and hear the sounds coming from it but they can\'t get the message that there is a new birth-control pill commercial on.
I have a theory that we may have "Jumped Ship" onto this planet.
Let\'s just say there was a planet like earth a long time ago with animals & humans that was in a death cycle toward the sun. They most likely had the collective intelegence that we have and they had a plan to create a planet suitable for human life. This would explain why animals & dinosaurs existed before man, they were waiting to see how the ecosystem would balance out before placing people on the planet. This was a long-term planitary goal to extend the cycle. We here on Earth are already planning to create a planet that will sustain life after earth is too close to the sun. We have been studying Mars and have been trying to figure out how to make it just like Earth.
The fractal of the Universe has given us the method to do this and I think I know the way it will happen!!!!
we have quite an enlightened person here, who may share some of my theories. One idea that i had that could make one think is that we are actually put here as a prison colony, and the great architectural achievments that we have no explaination for could have been built for the prisoners.
Or like u said, earth was an escape planet.
Also another bit of info, is anyone familiar with the biological clock of a caucasion? There were some experiments done with different ethnicities, by putting them in sensory derprevasion tanks. After a week everyone reverted to a 24 hour schedual, while the caucasion reverted to a 24.6 hour schedual, which is the length of a day on mars. Just some interesting little facts.
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This picture pretty much proves evolution.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ahajokes.com%2Fcartoon%2F2.jpg&hash=7ea9d6e2ce6f863fa76780a97f5c5aec7ab8e57d)
It reminds me of clyde. :p
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No God would ever allow the amount of BS that happens in our world
or should I say I could not possily worship a god that allows the BS that happens in the World
Religion is the ultimate scam, with the Catholic church being the most corrupt
there are many religions all with variances, Jesus lived, Jesus was never born,
To die in a religous cause guarentees holy passage, to cherish life as it is a gift
Its all BS, religion as it is recorded by humands litterally makes me want to vomit
There may be an entity out there, but I GUARENTEE YOU there is no organized religion worthy.
and when judgement day come those of us who are non practicing will share the same fate as those who thumped there bibles religously
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i dunno
the way i see it is
all it takes is believing in god to see the afterlife
if there is no god, and we will cease to exist when we die, than whats the frickin point of living?
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Originally posted by mm
i dunno
the way i see it is
all it takes is believing in god to see the afterlife
if there is no god, and we will cease to exist when we die, than whats the frickin point of living?
i dont know what the point of life is, however I do know what my role in life is. To do what ever untill whenever I cease to exsist.
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Originally posted by mm
if there is no god, and we will cease to exist when we die, than whats the frickin point of living?
I don\'t see why that would take the point out of living. I\'d think it would make your life seem even more important, because it is all you have.
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ever wonder if the ample amount of prayer that goes on in the world, could acctually manifest itself in a being. in other words, god didn\'t create man, but man created god.
*I\'m not religous in the least but i do enjoy abstract thinking*
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then toil everyday life?
it just seems like people who dont believe in god, have no reason to live
its like they shouldnt care if they die tomorrow
there\'s nothing afterwards anyways, right?
people who are religious live thier lives, in accordance to what they expect in the afterlife
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Originally posted by mm
then toil everyday life?
it just seems like people who dont believe in god, have no reason to live
its like they shouldnt care if they die tomorrow
there\'s nothing afterwards anyways, right?
people who are religious live thier lives, in accordance to what they expect in the afterlife
I cant say I dont care if I live or die since there are still so many things I would like to see and experiance. I am however not afraid to die. It was just my time to go..and no..not in some funky religious way.
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so you dont want an afterlife [if one exists]?
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I cant really say, since no one knows what the after life is like(if it even exsists) At the same time, I wouldnt be disapointed if there wasnt an afterlife, especially if I\'ve done all or most of the things I wanted to do in life.
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see thats the thing , "faith"
u already have to either believe in the afterlife or not
dont be like charles darwin and finally believe on yer deathbed
just to ease the fear of death
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Originally posted by mm
i dunno
the way i see it is
all it takes is believing in god to see the afterlife
if there is no god, and we will cease to exist when we die, than whats the frickin point of living?
thats pretty fricking simple dude
the point of living is the fact you are living. I have fun and enjoy my life
Death sounds a bit boring to me. Just laying around in blackness with no thought or capabilities
can\'t play video games, smoke a doobie or get laid when you\'re a corpse can you
so there\'s my point to living
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but what about when its over?
doesnt ceasing to exist scare you? i know, it wouldnt matter anyways, cause you\'de cease to exist and have no rational thought :)
it scares me
i dont consider myself very religious, but i believe in god and the afterlife, and thats good enough
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how does death scare you? rationaly speaking..death is better for 80% of the worlds population. No more suffering of any kind.
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i know in my heart that there is a better place waiting for me, but its the transition that scares me
its that split second between my last breaths
*shudder*
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Originally posted by mm
i know in my heart that there is a better place waiting for me, but its the transition that scares me
its that split second between my last breaths
*shudder*
Ok..that make smore sense to me. The thing Im afraid of.. dying a slow,horrible death..getting beaten to death..bleeding to death..running of out air..fire. My fear factor is probably just the pain factor involved.
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Originally posted by mm
but what about when its over?
doesnt ceasing to exist scare you? i know, it wouldnt matter anyways, cause you\'de cease to exist and have no rational thought :)
Right now it doesn\'t phase me much at all
I\'m sure if I was knocking on Heavens Door so to sspeak I might feel differently
but for someone who becomes old and tired death is anticapted and looked foward too
for others it happens so fast they wouldn\'t have time to be worried afraid or scared
but there is that dreaded prolonged death where you still have time to rationalize and think before you fade. That would prove tough and frightening
but regardless life is a cycle, when we die we just move on to the next pahse of the cycle
My theory of reincarnation is that our energy provides life after our death. Wether that life is a plant, insect or whatever our energy goes on to complete the cycle of life and death
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Originally posted by ddaryl
but regardless life is a cycle, when we die we just move on to the next pahse of the cycle
My theory of reincarnation is that our energy provides life after our death. Wether that life is a plant, insect or whatever our energy goes on to complete the cycle of life and death
You play too much time playing the FF series :D
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Originally posted by luckee
You play too much time playing the FF series :D
Not true, I\'ve only played FFVII
I came up with that on my own
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Originally posted by ddaryl
Not true, I\'ve only played FFVII
I came up with that on my own
Even FFVII had those dying..becoming the earth..blah blah theories in it :)
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one thing im kinda curious about is like what mm said...
im curious to see what that moment, just before you die feels like. i hope i dont get hit by a bus cause i wanna see what dying feels like.
i hope that made sense?
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Originally posted by mm
then toil everyday life?
it just seems like people who dont believe in god, have no reason to live
its like they shouldnt care if they die tomorrow
there\'s nothing afterwards anyways, right?
people who are religious live thier lives, in accordance to what they expect in the afterlife
Well, I\'m an athiest, and I have to disagree completely with this. Personally, I think that not believing in an afterlife makes me care MORE about whether I die tomorrow or not. If I believed in an afterlife, it\'d just be like making some sort of transition when I die, which doesn\'t sound that bad. But since I believe that I will simply stop living in any form, it matters a lot to me whether I die tomorrow or not. I, of course, enjoy living, and since I have nothing waiting for me when it\'s done, I feel I can live in the moment more. I don\'t have to worry about what\'s coming, and how my actions effect it as much. I can just enjoy what I have in my life while I have it. My reason to live comes simply from the fact that life for me is enjoyable. Why would I want to end something that I\'m enjoying? It seems to me that things would be just the oposite of what you\'re saying. Because I don\'t believe that there is anything coming after I die, it makes each moment seem more precious. In a way, that might explain why non religious people don\'t give religion a try more often. Most take time, which is something an athiest might be more reluctant to spend on something they aren\'t sure about.
Anyway, I guess I just can\'t see why having no religion would devalue life. If anything, I\'d think it would enhance its value.
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I am not even goin to reply to this one.
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Troglodyte,
Sheesh, we can never progress if we never question popular theory.
I\'m not sure that I believe 100% in the theory of evolution, but if that is the way it happened I believe that God was the one that got it all started. The probability of amino acids forming in primordial ooze is really, extremely low. The experiments done on primordial ooze created in the lab usually produces satisfyable results, but then again most will agree that the conditions under which the prmordial ooze was way back when can not be reproduced today.
Who\'s to say that evolution wasn\'t God\'s plan of creation?
Up until a few months ago I thought the exact same thing. I figured that evolution could be true and if it was, then that is just the way God made man. But after thinking about it, and learning more about it, I really don\'t believe in the Evolution Theory anymore.
This quote sums up what I think of Evolution quite nicely:
"It is held by some that Adam was not the first man upon this earth, and that the original human being was a development from lower orders of the animal creation. These, however, are the theories of men. The word of the Lord declares that Adam was \'the first man of all men\' (Moses 1:34), and we are therefore in duty bound to regard him as the primal parent of our race. It was shown to the brother of Jared that all men were created in the beginning after the image of God; and whether we take this to mean the spirit or the body, or both, it commits us to the same conclusion: Man began life as a human being, in the likeness of our heavenly Father."
juslight
I think it\'s funny that religious people can produce "Scientific evidence" that supports the creation theory that someone HAD to make us a few thousand years ago, but can turn around and say "GOD?.... Oh, he\'s been around forever. He\'s Eternal." They fail to theorize about how God was created, "No one created him... He just IS!!!"
God was created just like we were created. He was born on a planet probably a lot like this one, lived a worthy life, did some mandatory things that needed to be done (Baptism, marriage in the temple), got to the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom, then worked hard for probably hundreds of thousands of years, then poof, he\'s a god. Obviously that is a simplified version of how it really is, but you get the general idea of what my religion believes. Ha, there goes that argument about how people "fail to theorize about how God was created."
Deadly Hamster
Im not gonna sit here and start questioning religions and such ... but one thing that always bothers me about my religion ( i am catholic ( sp? ) ) is how 2000 years ago god appeared to all these people and told them what to do.. well did god decide to sit on his ass for 2000 years?
After Christ died and resurrected, his church died out. Most, if not all, of the of the leadership of his church was killed; completely wiping his church off the face of the planet. After that, many churches formed with their own variations to Christ\'s church. God was just waiting for the perfect time to bring his church back. God and Christ returned to earth in the 1820s to restore the true church. After the second coming, Christ will live with us on Earth once again. And it\'s not like God is just sitting there doing nothing. There are other worlds just like ours (except theirs are a lot less evil. Our world was the only world evil enough to crucify Jesus Christ). In order for religion to be established on those thousands, if not millions, or even billions of God\'s other worlds, Christ had to go down to those worlds too and tell them about how he died for their sins. So give them a break. They are busy people. :)
ddaryl
There may be an entity out there, but I GUARENTEE YOU there is no organized religion worthy.
How can you be so sure? Have you done research on every religion on this planet? Where they originated from? What their beliefs are?
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Originally posted by IronFist
God was created just like we were created. He was born on a planet probably a lot like this one, lived a worthy life, did some mandatory things that needed to be done (Baptism, marriage in the temple), got to the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom, then worked hard for probably hundreds of thousands of years, then poof, he\'s a god. Obviously that is a simplified version of how it really is, but you get the general idea of what my religion believes. Ha, there goes that argument about how people "fail to theorize about how God was created."
Whoa there buddy. May I be the first to say that this is not what Christianity teaches.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Whoa there buddy. May I be the first to say that this is not what Christianity teaches.
Exactly. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is no ordinary Christian church. Our church believes that all other churches have lost a lot of important key elements to God\'s church, which is why no other church believes, or has even heard of, this. Troglodyte, read my last post in the other religion thread.
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U know what I REALLY hate.. and I don\'t hate much.
People that breach religion. I don\'t care if people follow a religion, but when they breach it. Telling other people are goin to hell cause they aren\'t following there religion or arn\'t having children in weddlock etc etc. That really S@#TS me. I really hate people that talk about not killing etc, when they step on bugs without a second thought. Grrrrr. So that\'s my thought. That\'s why i don\'t follow a religion. I am what i am, do or don\'t accept that. If there is a god, he/she/it should understand he/she/it got what it payed (made) for. :D
So if anyone here feels they are getting flamed etc or feel as if that people are breaching and making them feel errr sad or offended.. PM me and i shall close this thread straight away.
These types of threads can lead to a lot of flaming and uncalled for words. Which isn\'t really religion e err is it. ;)
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
U know what I REALLY hate.. and I don\'t hate much.
People that breach religion. I don\'t care if people follow a religion, but when they breach it. Telling other people are goin to hell cause they aren\'t following there religion or arn\'t having children in weddlock etc etc. That really S@#TS me. I really hate people that talk about not killing etc, when they step on bugs without a second thought. Grrrrr. So that\'s my thought. That\'s why i don\'t follow a religion. I am what i am, do or don\'t accept that. If there is a god, he/she/it should understand he/she/it got what it payed (made) for. :D
So if anyone here feels they are getting flamed etc or feel as if that people are breaching and making them feel errr sad or offended.. PM me and i shall close this thread straight away.
These types of threads can lead to a lot of flaming and uncalled for words. Which isn\'t really religion e err is it. ;)
In other words, everybody go to "User CP", then "Edit Ignore List", then type in "IronFist". No need to beat around the bush §ôµÏG®ïñD. You can just come out and say it.
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i wasn\'t pointing the finger at anyone. I didn\'t even fully read through this whole thread. I was just mearly stating that if it became a flame war i would close it.
If you are breaching. Then maybe u will think about how it effects other people before doing so.. :)
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Here\'s the proof of evolution:
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thehumorarchives.com%2Fattachment_files%2Fevolution.jpg&hash=f65e4cc8051d47a2ed433500023e24edcb9fae37)
:)
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Originally posted by IronFist
Exactly. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is no ordinary Christian church. Our church believes that all other churches have lost a lot of important key elements to God\'s church, which is why no other church believes, or has even heard of, this. Troglodyte, read my last post in the other religion thread.
Honestly it seems to me, after reading some of the BOM, that the Mormons have added to the Bible, making getting into heaven a more "do good, be good" thing, instead of its pure spiritual element, and depending on how good you are, depends on your status later, so you don\'t have to be as good, and still get to some level of Heaven. And then giving people the thought that if I\'m super-great of a spiritual person, then someday I\'ll be able to rule my own planet. Seems a bit far-fetched.
I think what we need to do is is have more respcet for other religions. Here we are, solely arguing two similar religions, there are so many more to delve into. I\'ve tried to hold up more respect for Mormonism, but it\'s hard when y\'all act so darn stubborn towards your own and don\'t give the sence of even considering other opinions.
I move that we finally, once and for all, agree to disagree, and go on to posting silly evolution charts (I like Samewises best). And if you want to learn more about one\'s religion/science point of view, to PM them with a simple question on how to get an information packet or something.
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Originally posted by §ôμÏG®ïñD
i wasn\'t pointing the finger at anyone. I didn\'t even fully read through this whole thread. I was just mearly stating that if it became a flame war i would close it.
If you are breaching. Then maybe u will think about how it effects other people before doing so.. :)
Ok. But one would have to assume when they saw the title of this thread that it would contain different people\'s ideas/beliefs of how things came to be. I do apologize for preaching though, and will keep that to a minimum from now on. :)
Troglodyte,
Honestly it seems to me, after reading some of the BOM, that the Mormons have added to the Bible, making getting into heaven a more "do good, be good" thing, instead of its pure spiritual element, and depending on how good you are, depends on your status later, so you don\'t have to be as good, and still get to some level of Heaven. And then giving people the thought that if I\'m super-great of a spiritual person, then someday I\'ll be able to rule my own planet. Seems a bit far-fetched.
I believe that I can not just pray every day, say I believe in Christ, go to church every week, read my scriptures, and then have a guaranteed spot in heaven. If I truly do believe in Christ, than I will follow his example. He didn\'t just sit around being perfect, but went out giving service at every chance he had. As I said before in the other thread, our church is not an idle church. And it is true that our church believes in three degrees of heaven, all of them being better than this world. "Hell" for us is not making it to the highest degree in the highest level of heaven, which means we cannot progress anymore. Only in the highest degree can you progress, otherwise you will be stuck in your current state forever, never progressing.
I think what we need to do is is have more respcet for other religions. Here we are, solely arguing two similar religions, there are so many more to delve into. I\'ve tried to hold up more respect for Mormonism, but it\'s hard when y\'all act so darn stubborn towards your own and don\'t give the sence of even considering other opinions.
One reason I am even posting in these religion threads is to understand as much as I can about other people\'s beliefs before I go on my mission. I do understand a lot about the other Christian churches though, and am not as ignorant as you may think. I am not being stubborn without knowledge of the other churches, but instead have chosen this church as the only true church after weeks of prayer and scripture study. Now that I know which church is true, I think my stubbornness is justified. If you knew a religion was completely true without a shadow of a doubt, would you still go out looking for other religions?
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Originally posted by IronFist
One reason I am even posting in these religion threads is to understand as much as I can about other people\'s beliefs before I go on my mission. I do understand a lot about the other Christian churches though, and am not as ignorant as you may think. I am not being stubborn without knowledge of the other churches, but instead have chosen this church as the only true church after weeks of prayer and scripture study. Now that I know which church is true, I think my stubbornness is justified. If you knew a religion was completely true without a shadow of a doubt, would you still go out looking for other religions?
The problem with that is the human mind can never comprehend enough to know absolute truths, to be absolutely sure that the spirit is pointing you in the direction of the path you take, and not a limited scope sue to our minds own limitations, there will always be a need to "double check" a truth that seems absolute. I probably won\'t prove much of anything to you. The only way to find the ultimate truth is through death. Hopefully the pats we take, though seemingly separate, will take us to the same bliss in aftelife.