PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Watchdog on March 08, 2002, 03:08:26 PM
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I was reading the IGN forums the other day when I realized it was actually the PS2 Central forums. I didn\'t beat myself up over it because it was an honest misake and could\'ve happened to anyone--the two being so similar and all...
Anyone else notice since IGN went away from the masses this has turned into one big "flopbox suxors" forum?
This used to be a place where people with intelligence once posted and fanboys and zealots were quickly herded out. Now they are tolerated, even encouraged. It\'s a pity.
I\'ve tried my part, but there is precious little support. I can remember this forum with only one zealot: Jumpman. Now I can name many, many more.
Why can\'t we have a new forum? Call it anything you want: Console Bashing/Trolling Heights/Teen Fanboy Fan Club where posts of that nature could go. You can bash any system all you want, and people of like mind and maturity can have it out with each other until they grow up and actually have some perspective.
As it is now there can not be an xbox thread without half a dozen people bringing up controller size, system sales or graphic quality. No GC thread can survive without the words "kiddy" or "playschool" being used.
I do not mind an intellectual, informed debate, but when all we get are screen shots and sales numbers it gets a little tiresome.
So can we have a new forum and have the strictest policy in this one? I have full confidence in our mods here to be able to mediate this. What hurt could a dedicated forum do to anyone?
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This would problly go good in the suggestions forum but u make some good points.
By far this is still one of the best boards u can find on the net, none of them are kept up to this quality.
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yeah, but lately the xbox was stymied us with no A+ games, had a piss poor japanese launch, AND a recall, AND major retailors NOT carrying the units
what else can we poke fun at?
watch, its nothing peronal and it will pass
were just punching back at the xbox jealots who said that the xbox would come as the "be all - end all" of console gaming
/me laughs at them
***
thank you PSX-J
flattery will get you no-where btw
nanners will tho, if u speak to clyde
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Well this IS a PS2 oriented site. Would you prefer if we pushed all the PS2 Zelots and fanboys out into other websites like TeamXbox or NintnedoNation.. or any other forum of opposite minded gamers? I say, as long as they do their bashing and trolling HERE.. then they\'re contained.. which is a good step forward. If you don\'t like their opinions.. then just overlook their posts like I do. The worst of the worst will still get trashed, don\'t worry about that... it may just take a bit longer to accomplish than Anti-PS2 zelots.
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It\'s quite simple really, IGN got rid of the trolls by making their site a pay site and many had to leave and go elsewhere. However, I don\'t feel this should discourage you from visiting here. Sure, there will be fanboy posts, and the number does grow over time, but just the same, just as it was pointed out long ago when xbox zealots and nintendo zealots ran rampart in this part of the boards, this is console debate, anything goes.
However, it\'s hard to have a decent debate when a company just continues to hand over rocks to the fanboys to fling right back at them. No offense to MS, but they need to do something right in order to make any impact on the gaming scene at all.
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Originally posted by mm
yeah, but lately the xbox was stymied us with no A+ games, had a piss poor japanese launch, AND a recall, AND major retailors NOT carrying the units
what else can we poke fun at?
watch, its nothing peronal and it will pass
were just punching back at the xbox jealots who said that the xbox would come as the "be all - end all" of console gaming
/me laughs at them
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thank you PSX-J
flattery will get you no-where btw
nanners will tho, if u speak to clyde
heh, so u think Im trying to be flattering, I dont think so.;)
U aint seen nothing yet mm.:p
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all you can do watchdog is continue to post inteligentally, and continue to contribute something to the boards.. ignore the bad posts (like mine :))
but its a rare forums based on one console that doesnt jump over news on other consoles, and bash at every chance :)
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>"However, it\'s hard to have a decent debate when a company just continues to hand over rocks to the fanboys to fling right back at them."
Sadly, yes
you give me a rock, i\'ll throw it
and not neccisarylly in MS\'s direction.. While I like nintendo, i\'ll still poke fun at mistakes they make.
Even sony i\'ve poked fun at.. namely their 40 gig HDD decision.. and their choice to my knowlege to not give consumers a choice of size.. but it appears they are not going to focus on the HDD this generation.. so that point is moot
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No, like I said you can have issues with the xbox and that is fine, but it\'s the mindless stuff that discourages me. Xbox has released some good games lately: JSRF and Ralisport (just played Rallisport and it is awesome) are two gems.
But even if these two didn\'t exist, it\'s the manner in which people post, and their attitude that nothing on the xbox is good--everything has to be bad because it is MS/xbox. This is console debating, and those people don\'t debate.
Just because other sites have a free for all in their "debating" forums doesn\'t mean PSXC has to adopt that mold. Why not declare a zero tolerance policy in this forum and make a dedicated garbage forum? It makes sense to me.
Months ago it was easy to ignore those posts, but they are so prelevant now that every post gets congested and brought down to the lowest common denominator.
My point is that it doesn\'t have to be this way, yet we choose to allow it to happen. I\'m curious as to why?
The majority of people here are open minded and fair, but it\'s the vocal minority that is ruining it for everyone. Why should we be asked to ignore this? By even saying that you are admiting that it is a problem. It doesn\'t have to be the status quo.
Some have said we are paying the fanboys back for how they behaved--you are paying them back by being exactly what you are acting out against. That doesn\'t make sense.
I sound like a whiney jackass, I know, but this is the best forum I\'ve come across and I\'d hate to see it go bad. I guess I just don\'t understand why it\'s tolerated. As it is now we have no higher a quality than the old IGN or TXB. That\'s sad and a waste.
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/me thinks your just upset at Chrono :p
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Originally posted by Watchdog
My point is that it doesn\'t have to be this way, yet we choose to allow it to happen. I\'m curious as to why?
I think I know why, because this is a PS2 board, even if this is the Console debating part of the board, this is PS2 turf and just don\'t cross over the wrong road. But Watchdog, don\'t lose it, I hate posting at Teamxbox because most of the time there is sad topics. I\'ll try and keep posting positive xbox topics. ;)
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Originally posted by mm
had a piss poor japanese launch,
Heyyyyy
:(
i hope you know i was the one of the first to call the japanese launch "piss poor" in fact its even a Scottish expresion :(
// piss poor japanese launch Copyrighted by ooseven 2002
:(
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I don\'t read this forum all that much, but I think the guy\'s got a point. It might be a little easier though if the companies didn\'t make it so easy to make fun of them and their products. This is a PS2 based site so it\'s natural that it\'s going to have a bias towards PS2. But if people would just accept that there is no \'console to rule them all\' then debating the subject would be much easier IMO.
I can only encourage people who are displeased to try and higher the quality themselves. Hopefully the masses will then follow. :)
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I\'m with you Watchdog,this Console Debating is getting really sad!
It\'s turning into a Troll-Forum,ful of trolling fanboys! :p
Fact is 90% of debate is XBox bashing...really sad...really boring...really trolling:D
Why can\'t we have a new forum? Call it anything you want: Console Bashing/Trolling Heights/Teen Fanboy Fan Club where posts of that nature could go. You can bash any system all you want, and people of like mind and maturity can have it out with each other until they grow up and actually have some perspective.
We just have it...it\'s called Console Debating:)
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Yeah, come to think about it.. this section of the forums was MADE for fanboys and trolls. Back when it was first started, we had trolls running rampant in the main forum.. and it got to be such a problem that Bjorn (right?) created this forum to contain them all in. Since those days, it\'s turned from one big flame into a place where "most" of us can have serious and intelligent debates.
Things will cool down over time. This happens every so often, when a new console is launched.. a few good games on varrying platforms release around the same time... and when we get an influx of fresh trolls from other boards shutting down. This is just a bumpy time.. and things will smooth out and go back to normal soon enough... hopefully.
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yeah, once i get my smaller US xbox controller, and they finally release another A+ game, ill ease up on M$
but in the mean time, i am going to point out and mock every time they trip
:)
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Well some people are dumb. Thats just a fact of life. I mean we have MM here on this board and you would think he is from an IGN board.
I guess he can\'t take the fact that the xbox is outselling the gamecube now in Japan (as of the LATEST sales data), the xbox scratch issue has been resolved and is a launch issue which he never points out the issues that the PS2 had which were huge compared to this and that the xbox has had great games when it was released compared to oh 9 months after the launch of the PS2.
Wreckless, JSRF, Rallisport, and UFC Tapout are great games. Its just too bad people can\'t see beyond their biased attitudes. If he wants to be an idiot, thats fine. There is nothing I can do, nor do I care.
There are morons all over the planet and its sad, but what can anyone do about it?
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Yeah Docwiz, there\'s no stopping you... It\'s been a long time since I\'ve seen you around. :)
So what PS2 games does a great unbiased gamer like yourself enjoy these days?
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Originally posted by Docwiz
Well some people are dumb. Thats just a fact of life. I mean we have MM here on this board and you would think he is from an IGN board.
I guess he can\'t take the fact that the xbox is outselling the gamecube now in Japan (as of the LATEST sales data), the xbox scratch issue has been resolved and is a launch issue which he never points out the issues that the PS2 had which were huge compared to this and that the xbox has had great games when it was released compared to oh 9 months after the launch of the PS2.
Wreckless, JSRF, Rallisport, and UFC Tapout are great games. Its just too bad people can\'t see beyond their biased attitudes. If he wants to be an idiot, thats fine. There is nothing I can do, nor do I care.
There are morons all over the planet and its sad, but what can anyone do about it?
haha, that\'s so funny coming from you... It sounds like you\'re dissing yourself
Seriously, do you live on the planet Denial? Coz you\'re talking about yerself there buddy
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ok docwic, im glad yer here
it gives me a chance to further laugh at and mock you for yer rampant xbox fanboyism in the past and present
wreckless, JSRF, UFC are ALL creampuffs. more puff and less cream. they have graphics sure, but lack the A+ gameplay we should get from the "ps2 killer". JSRF and UFC offer very little over thier previous versions but updated graphics, w00t?
anyways, you basically insulted yerself in yer post, and it makes me glad to see you dont even know that
the xbox forums are pretty slow these days huh?
I guess he can\'t take the fact that the xbox is outselling the gamecube now in Japan (as of the LATEST sales data),
what kind of insult is that? i dislike the big "N" more than m$. i love how you enforce LATEST data. took a while for xbox to catch up to GC, huh? shame the ps2 is SELLING MORE THAN BOTH COMBINED!
especially after a piss poor [© ooseven, 2002] japanese launch, and an impending euro failure.
tsk tsk, doc
please remove yer foot from yer mouth and stop crying, its embarrising
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wreckless, JSRF, UFC are ALL creampuffs. more puff and less cream. they have graphics sure, but lack the A+ gameplay we should get from the "ps2 killer". JSRF and UFC offer very little over thier previous versions but updated graphics, w00t?
I take it you haven\'t played JSRF...
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People do have to understand our goals for our forums isn\'t to impersonate others, meaning if one looks better than ours, you aren\'t going to see us change our graphics over night. Or if we have more trolls than one site, we automatically ban them. We have fun with them, mess with their heads, and if they really do take it too personally, we put em on a leash until they are able to act in a respectable fashion.
Do know "I" was the former creator of this forum idea. I noticed how much the main forum was being cluttered by this ignorance bliss of console wars, so I thought one day to create a forum specially for this kind of stuff.
Do be aware this forum, Console Debating, will have it\'s fair share of zealots, trolls, fools, and what not. Differing opinions are also here. You may not like another persons opinion, but you just have to accept their point of view. And then debate about it. That\'s why it\'s called Console Debating!
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by mm
a piss poor [© ooseven, 2002] japanese launch
:D
Life is GOOD :D
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mm is not a fanboy.
JSRF is a A+ game, definately not a cream puff.
Tap Out is not a A+ game, neither is Wreckless. Both are good solid titles, but neither is a complete game.
Last Friday I got 8 friends (one of which brought his xbox), a couple 2-4s, and we played the xbox exclusively. We played Halo most of the time (system link is awesome!), Ralisport (tremendous game), NHL 2002, and Tapout. As far as I\'m concerned the PS2 isn\'t a party system. I\'ve hosted several such parties, and no one ever wants to play Timesplitters, Baulder\'s Gate or Metal Gear (well one person did want to "see" it the party before last), et al.
When I\'m by myself, I play both systems equally depending on which system just got a new game. Over the past month I\'ve probably played my PS2 more (mostly Baulder\'s and Maximo), but that too fluctuates from month to month.
And I am not just speaking out against the PS2 hugging crowd, I dislike the xbox zealots just as much, the problem is that there are far few xbox zealots here so they are more tolerable. Having fun with fanboys gets old after the hundreth incarnation. I still don\'t understand why people actually want them here.
I can\'t remember the last time we had a clean xbox thread without _______ or ________ or __________ or anyone of the dumb ass members coming in and trash talking the system (edited to prevent said bashing).
It\'s a shame I\'m the only one who cares.
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Would you prefer if we pushed all the PS2 Zelots and fanboys out into other websites like TeamXbox or NintnedoNation.. or any other forum of opposite minded gamers?
You realize NintendoNation.com died almost a year ago, right?
You also realize that the site had a nice community, but due to popularity did have quite a few nimrods, right?
You realize I was an admin there, right?
You doobie doobie doo, right?
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yes, i have played [and own] jet grind radio future
sure, it looks cleaner than the DC version, but thats about it.
rehash
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thank you watchdog
yer right, im not a fanboy, im just VERY disgruntled and jaded with the industry and VERY hard to please
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Originally posted by Watchdog
mm is not a fanboy.
JSRF is a A+ game, definately not a cream puff.
Tap Out is not a A+ game, neither is Wreckless. Both are good solid titles, but neither is a complete game.
Last Friday I got 8 friends (one of which brought his xbox), a couple 2-4s, and we played the xbox exclusively. We played Halo most of the time (system link is awesome!), Ralisport (tremendous game), NHL 2002, and Tapout. As far as I\'m concerned the PS2 isn\'t a party system. I\'ve hosted several such parties, and no one ever wants to play Timesplitters, Baulder\'s Gate or Metal Gear (well one person did want to "see" it the party before last), et al.
When I\'m by myself, I play both systems equally depending on which system just got a new game. Over the past month I\'ve probably played my PS2 more (mostly Baulder\'s and Maximo), but that too fluctuates from month to month.
And I am not just speaking out against the PS2 hugging crowd, I dislike the xbox zealots just as much, the problem is that there are far few xbox zealots here so they are more tolerable. Having fun with fanboys gets old after the hundreth incarnation. I still don\'t understand why people actually want them here.
I can\'t remember the last time we had a clean xbox thread without _______ or ________ or __________ or anyone of the dumb ass members coming in and trash talking the system (edited to prevent said bashing).
It\'s a shame I\'m the only one who cares.
You\'re not the only one:)
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Were you here when the Xbox fanboys invaded? (over a year ago)
puh.. Fun times.. :)
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mm, then you have to consider VF4, GT3, TTT, T4, DOA3, virtually any sequel a rehash. If that\'s so then fine, but otherwise you are making too fine a point.
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Originally posted by mm
yes, i have played [and own] jet grind radio future
sure, it looks cleaner than the DC version, but thats about it.
rehash
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thank you watchdog
yer right, im not a fanboy, im just VERY disgruntled and jaded with the industry and VERY hard to please
Did you play the original? JSRF\'s premise is the same, but the gameplay was tweaked to give a better sense of speed and action. You no longer have to stand in spot and do the motions or have enough speed to make it up a staircase with a grind...that and there are new levels and some new characters. The game really emphasizes grinding 10X what the original did...
To call it a mere update would be incorrect...it\'s a full blown sequel.
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To call it a mere update would be incorrect...it\'s a full blown sequel.
uhh.. you just basically explained how it was an update.. and how they tweked parts of it while most of it remained the same
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*sigh...
The game has to keep it\'s basic premise...tagging and skating. That\'s a given...It\'s not an update because JSRF has different gameplay, characters, and levels.
In other words, it\'s not Jet Grind Radio with better graphics. It\'s a completely different game...
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Surprise, surprise Chrono had something negative to say about the xbox. You sould at least play the game before you shoot your mouth off.
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Chrono didnt say anything bad about the game or the Xbox..
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Chrono was dismissing the game as a rehash. A game I\'m sure he\'s never played. He didn\'t say anything outwardly negative, but he\'s supporting a negative assessment of a game he\'s never played.
Pikimin is just a prettied-up Lemmings.
Did I mention I\'ve never played it?
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no he wasnt, he merely pointed out a subtle contradiction in Rikku\'s post :) you looked too far into it
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I disagree. It\'s just like NYPPZ, anything he says is tainted.
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looks like docwiz came, saw, and then bailed out.
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
looks like docwiz came, saw, and then bailed out.
It was to much for the old... chap
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hard to talk with his foot in his mouth
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Originally posted by mm
yeah, once i get my smaller US xbox controller, and they finally release another A+ game, ill ease up on M$...
:)
Great games will come and for the moment enjoy the new controller s coming out next April...
http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=19586
:)
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NEXT april? as in april 2003? or do you mean THIS april as in 2002?
"great games will come"
famous last words.
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Originally posted by mm
NEXT april? as in april 2003? or do you mean THIS april as in 2002?
"great games will come"
famous last words.
This April=next April...as we mean in Italy :)...April 2002..."The new Controller s will be available on store shelves at the end of April and it will cost $39.95."
XBox is getting great games but the best has yet to come(as it\'s happened for every console:)...well...Jaguar apart...:p)...
I\'m a racing whore and XBox has PG,Rallisport...and SegaGT2002 and GP4 coming...I\'m excited...what should you want? PS2 was used like a DVD in the first 6 months :p
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Originally posted by BizioEE
PS2 was used like a DVD in the first 6 months :p
It was? :(
I feel bad for you.
I know I played games on mine.
Even tough I must admit it took a long time between the good games.
But who cares now? Now Im drowning in great games..
Must... get... ICO next week, and Ace Combat 4 soon. Plus Baldurs Gate which I couldn’t afford before. (I have 16 games already)
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Originally posted by fastson
It was? :(
I feel bad for you.
I know I played games on mine.
Even tough I must admit it took a long time between the good games.
But who cares now? Now Im drowning in great games..
Must... get... ICO next week, and Ace Combat 4 soon. Plus Baldurs Gate which I couldn’t afford before. (I have 16 games already)
fastson...I use raw and a bit overemphasized expressions when I hear something incoherent:) I bought one of the first jap PS2 and I waited a long time before playing something decent...and while my PS2 was collecting dust,I had the common sense to wait and see what this console had to offer...
...and almost 2 years later,I\'ve seen really good games(well,not the games I was waiting for)...
...now...the XBox has shown the Game of the Year at Launch,racing games like PG and Rallisport in 3 months after launch,an interesting Platform(Munch) at launch,JSRF,etc...How the hell could I bash the XBox when I didn\'t bash PS2?
I don\'t give a **** if PS2 is a new hardware and more difficult to develop for...I want games...only games...and I waited so much time for PS2 that I go "mad" when people complain about XBox line-up...
I\'ve been waiting for the Bouncer,the game which seemed to have no release date...and wait...and hype...and wait...and what we\'ve played? Damn...and J&D other 2 years...
...and the list continues...
Now I wanna wait for GC and XBox as I did with PS2...instead of talking non-sense...
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Damn.. It must have been a horrible experience Bizio.. :rolleyes:
Why the hell did you keep your PS2 if you dont like it?
Sell it.. use the money from the PS2 to buy your Xbox games.
But please stop with the sentimental horsecrap.
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fastson = my hero for today
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Watchdog...
Where do you live? How about inviting some of us for those partys you host?
;)
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PS2 was used like a DVD in the first 6 months
It\'s funny, I never used my PS2 as a DVD player. Infact, not until today when I watched the making of MGS2! :)
Honestly, the PS2 gave me the most enjoyable gaming experience up until today (I owned NES, SNES, GB, Amiga, PSX, PC and today a PS2). Starting at launch with great games such as SSX and Timesplitters, it just got better after getting Rayman (great platformer), Z.O.E (plus the amazing MGS2 demo), then GT3 A-Spec (best racer ever), GTA3, J&D, Wipeout and now MGS2. Honestly, I love everything about the PS2 and MGS2 really blowed my mind (as did GT3 at the time). Currently I own 18 games with two more to come next month. Too good to be true. But to each their own I guess.. ;)
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You guys could come, but I live in Canada and I doubt many of you do. Btw, I just got an HDTV and surround sound setup and gaming has never been better!
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Originally posted by fastson
Damn.. It must have been a horrible experience Bizio.. :rolleyes:
not horrible,disappointing...
Why the hell did you keep your PS2 if you dont like it?
Read again above,maybe you catch what I\'ve said...I hate hypocrisy,not PS2! :)
Sell it.. use the money from the PS2 to buy your Xbox games.
Why? I wanna play GT4 on-line and much more...I\'m disappointed,not stupid:D
But please stop with the sentimental horsecrap.
sentimental bla bla ? I hate incoherence in people,only this...see above...
fastson = my hero for today
Why?:yawn:
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BizioEE,
Your just like any other X-Box fanboy(even if you claim your not), but that\'s beside the point. Your complaining about waiting for PS2 games when all your doing is waiting for those games to come out for X-Box. People waited for an X-box version of THPS3 when the PS2 already had it, while we were enjoying the X-box zealots were waiting, and when it came out it wasn\'t as good as the PS2 version. You can complain all you want, and brag about X-Box\'s specifications and graphics. When it comes down to it, Sony\'s got M$\'s number on games, sales, and most importantly, satisfaction.
Note to reader:I own an X-Box, Gamecube, and PS2, and still buy more PS2 games than either other system combined. Why do I have a 3 systems? So I can give a true, down-to-earth opinion.
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
BizioEE,
Your just like any other X-Box fanboy(even if you claim your not), but that\'s beside the point.
Poor Billy I\'m not a XBox fanboy...poor guy...
...I\'ll bash every console which will disappoint me and every trolling member...:p
Your complaining about waiting for PS2 games when all your doing is waiting for those games to come out for X-Box.
Nope,I ordered a XBox with Halo,Munch and Rallisport,I won\'t wait for good games...but I\'ll wait to see the real potential of this console...poor Billy...
People waited for an X-box version of THPS3 when the PS2 already had it, while we were enjoying the X-box zealots were waiting, and when it came out it wasn\'t as good as the PS2 version. You can complain all you want, and brag about X-Box\'s specifications and graphics. When it comes down to it, Sony\'s got M$\'s number on games, sales, and most importantly, satisfaction.
At first PS2 games couldn\'t even compare to most DC games...it needed 2 years to get good games and about THPS3...if you take it like an example you\'re a fool...look at Crazy Taxi...it looks better on DC...
Note to reader:I own an X-Box, Gamecube, and PS2, and still buy more PS2 games than either other system combined. Why do I have a 3 systems? So I can give a true, down-to-earth opinion.
1 year and half ago I owned PSX,N64 and PS2...and I bought more PSX games than PS2 games...
...and in any case,it\'s your personal taste...buy the games you like the more poor fool...but it\'s only your ****ing taste...can you realize? :)
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I would hardly call BizioEE a fanboy. Just because he enjoys both systems does not make him biased. On the other hand those that do own both and enjoy one more than the other have an opinion which should be respected.
I too own many more PS2 games than Xbox games, but each system has its own merits: PS2 GTA3, FFX, DMC, etc - XBox HD, Halo, PGR, DOA3. Obviously the list for the XBox isn\'t too big right now, but like BizioEE said, give it chance.
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Yawn......
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
I would hardly call BizioEE a fanboy. Just because he enjoys both systems does not make him biased. On the other hand those that do own both and enjoy one more than the other have an opinion which should be respected.
Funny, did you also know that Bizio doesn\'t own a Xbox yet? After knowing this, do you still respect his opinion? I honestly find it quite amusing how someone can praise a system to that extend without even... LOL... owning it.
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Originally posted by seven
Funny, did you also know that Bizio doesn\'t own a Xbox yet? After knowing this, do you still respect his opinion? I honestly find it quite amusing how someone can praise a system to that extend without even... LOL... owning it.
If people respect your opinion...people respect the opinion of everyone else! :)
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And Seven, isn\'t is equally hilarious that you diss the xbox so much without even owning it. Gotta love contradictions.
And whoever said that THPS3 is better on PS2 is smoking something very expensive--unless by better you mean lots of slowdown and poorer textures.
The only thing PS2 THPS3 has that the Xbox version doesn\'t is officially online;however, you can go online with the xbox version with gamespy. Not as good granted, but adequate.
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Boy, Mondays can really put a damper on your day. Just look at BizioEE who\'s making assumptions about a system without even owning it.:rolleyes:
Then there\'s watchdog, who seems to jump on someone\'s case when he gets the chance.
Seriously, the only enjoyable game right now for the box is Halo, at least that\'s the only thing I\'d prefer to my other library of games.
And yes BizioEE, unlike you, I own the system and can present an actual opinion. So don\'t bite my head off for offering my feelings.
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Sorry Billy, but I\'m only keeping people straight.
You said the xbox version of THPS3 is worse--clearly you\'ve never played it or even bothered to read a review. You just hugged your PS2 and made a wish.
And seriously, your opinion about the xbox\'s lineup doesn\'t hold much weight given your previous statement.
It\'s the badge of the new fanboy to say "Oh, and before you call me biased I own [enter list of disputed consoles]." Just because someone says something, doesn\'t make it true--see your post about THPS3. Have a nice Monday.
Btw, "faker" isn\'t a word.
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>"You said the xbox version of THPS3 is worse--clearly you\'ve never played it or even bothered to read a review."
At least you can play online without the aid of a PC...
lol
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Btw, "faker" isn\'t a word.
Who said faker?
Have a nice Monday.
You too, I\'m looking foward to Tuesday.
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I don\'t know Billy, who said it...
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Originally posted by Watchdog
And Seven, isn\'t is equally hilarious that you diss the xbox so much without even owning it. Gotta love contradictions.
Where did I diss Xbox?
Gees Watchdog, I really hope you reply to this one. Can\'t wait for you to back your statement up... ;)
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Boy, Mondays can really put a damper on your day. Just look at BizioEE who\'s making assumptions about a system without even owning it.
Bizzio only points:
1) I hate hypocrisy and incoherence.
2) XBox can do better graphics than PS2 = FACT,not assumptions:)
3) Bizzio wanna give the XBox some time to show its potential(not good games because XBox is already getting good games),as Bizz did with PS2 and every console...instead of talking BS against the console you "hate"
I\'ve seen the XBox in action even if I have to wait some other days before getting it...
now is it clear?
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2) XBox can do better graphics than PS2 = FACT,not assumptions
:rolleyes: fact based upon what? spec sheets? :rolleyes:
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fact?
the xbox can do SLIGHTLY better graphics
yes, SLIGHTLY
wtf do you expect from a two year difference
take a look at the spyhunter port, who does it better?
take a look at vrally3 vs rallisport, who does it better?
bah, this is a waste of time to argue over petty crap
the xbox is a frickin let down so far, so why argue over it
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fact?
the xbox can do SLIGHTLY better graphics
yes, SLIGHTLY
wtf do you expect from a two year difference
take a look at the spyhunter port, who does it better?
take a look at vrally3 vs rallisport, who does it better?
bah, this is a waste of time to argue over petty crap
the xbox is a frickin let down so far, so why argue over it
He\'s probably basing that on that fact that currentely no PS2 games can match the quality in graphics of Dead or Alive 3, Wreckless, Halo, JSRF and the Xbox usually gets the "cleaner" port...not always the case, but the most common.
Since there is that 2 year difference in hardware, it\'s inevitable that Xbox will outshine the PS2 in given time. PS2 finally did it to the DC, Xbox will do it to the PS2...there\'s not much to argue about.
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I have come to realize that for the XBox bashers there is no game that will change their minds. No matter how ground breaking the graphics and game play they will bash it because of who makes the black box.
Kind of strange in my book.
Ace
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exactly, the xbox "should" be outshining the PS2, and it damn better. two years is a long time
how does VF4 compare to DOA3? i havent compared shots
its not M$, or the xbox that we ridicule, its the zealots [like docwiz] who started the ball rolling, now he\'s eating it
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Virtua Fighter 4 comes pretty close but doesn\'t surpass...
DOA3>VF4 graphically.
Did you forget how long it was before PS2 really set itself apart from DC? I\'d say Devil May Cry was the first PS2 title to "outshine" DC quality, followed by Gran Turismo. But you also have to remember how long it was before these games came out. PS2 launched in Japan March \'00, DMC and GT3 came out in 2001. Almost a whole year...
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I have DOA3 and have played VF4 at my local import shop...
VF4 is beautiful for a PS2 game;)
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no way, ps2 launch titles crushed my beloved DC graphically
SSx
Timesplitters
Kessen
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Almost every console that I have owned has disappointed me at the beginning of it\'s life span. The Xbox has been out for about four or five months now. Not long enough to make a decision.
Maybe I am just getting older and I don\'t believe the hype like I used to when I was younger.
Ace
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Originally posted by mm
no way, ps2 launch titles crushed my beloved DC graphically
SSx
Timesplitters
Kessen
I\'d say more like "thumped"...they were a step above DC but not totally out of reach.
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Since there is that 2 year difference in hardware, it\'s inevitable that Xbox will outshine the PS2 in given time. PS2 finally did it to the DC, Xbox will do it to the PS2...there\'s not much to argue about.
This is how it works with PCs - its not always like this in everything though. I won\'t say that PS2 is better, but I\'ll say that it has the potential to be overal equal in terms of hardware. Just think of the times of PSX, Saturn and N64: prime example that newer hardware isn\'t necesseraly better. In case of the Xbox and PS2, I\'d say that both have their advantages and disadvantages.
He\'s probably basing that on that fact that currentely no PS2 games can match the quality in graphics of Dead or Alive 3, Wreckless, Halo, JSRF and the Xbox usually gets the "cleaner" port...not always the case, but the most common.
Then I am basing my fact that currently no Xbox games look better than MGS2, Jak & Daxter, Baulders Gate: Dark Aliance, Final Fantasy X. And by the way, I\'d say Virtua Fighter 4 comes indeed damn close to surpassing DoA3\'s graphics - and I thought DoA3 went to Xbox because no other console could handle it... :rolleyes:
how does VF4 compare to DOA3? i havent compared shots
Personally, I think VF4 looks better. It\'s the lightning, textures and fluid animations that IMO make it look better than DoA3. Technically, I\'d say their pretty equal though.
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Did you forget how long it was before PS2 really set itself apart from DC? I\'d say Devil May Cry was the first PS2 title to "outshine" DC quality, followed by Gran Turismo. But you also have to remember how long it was before these games came out. PS2 launched in Japan March \'00, DMC and GT3 came out in 2001. Almost a whole year...
And I suppose you also know that a lot of developers had heaps of problems developing on the PS2? It\'s what you call a "learning curve" and PS2 has a pretty steap one due to its unique and new design in architecture. I am aware that every console has its learning curve, but the Xbox is most definately not a ***** to program for as it was for PS2 developers at the time.
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I won\'t say that PS2 is better, but I\'ll say that it has the potential to be overal equal in terms of hardware.
Basing this on what? Just a hunch?
Just think of the times of PSX, Saturn and N64: prime example that newer hardware isn\'t necesseraly better.
Not always the case...
In case of the Xbox and PS2, I\'d say that both have their advantages and disadvantages.
What are you basing this on?
And by the way, I\'d say Virtua Fighter 4 comes indeed damn close to surpassing DoA3\'s graphics - and I thought DoA3 went to Xbox because no other console could handle it...
Yes it does come close...did I say something else?
Personally, I think VF4 looks better. It\'s the lightning, textures and fluid animations that IMO make it look better than DoA3. Technically, I\'d say their pretty equal though.
On what platform? The arcade version doesn\'t count...
anyways, think what you want....
Then I am basing my fact that currently no Xbox games look better than MGS2, Jak & Daxter, Baulders Gate: Dark Aliance, Final Fantasy X.
I\'m not a tech head, otherwise I would get into this with you...I have both systems and have played all the above except for BG:DA. IMO, Xbox surpasses in overall graphic quality...
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Originally posted by seven
And I suppose you also know that a lot of developers had heaps of problems developing on the PS2? It\'s what you call a "learning curve" and PS2 has a pretty steap one due to its unique and new design in architecture. I am aware that every console has its learning curve, but the Xbox is most definately not a ***** to program for as it was for PS2 developers at the time.
And?
Looks like an advantage for Xbox...
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Basing this on what? Just a hunch?
Actually basing this on current games that are overall about equal. You name DoA3, and I think that MGS2 is the most beautiful game I\'ve played so far. I also base this on screens of future releases (Rallisport vs. V-Rally 3), that GT3 only pushes 25% of the PS2 and to the fact that I do know a lot on the PS2\'s hardware and think it is far more capable than what most games out now are making you believe.
What are you basing this on?
Basing this on what I\'ve read from developers and my own knowledge in this field. As I already said above, I think the PS2\'s hardware is far more capable than what most games out now are making you believe. It has potential. Another one is the freedom that the hardware gives developers of how to accomplish their goals.
On what platform? The arcade version doesn\'t count...
anyways, think what you want....
On PS2 of course.
And?
Looks like an advantage for Xbox...
Well, yes. But it\'s a contradiction to say that it is easy to develop for and far more advanced - but only toss out games that are equal or slightly better than current PS2 games.
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Actually basing this on current games that are overall about equal. You name DoA3, and I think that MGS2 is the most beautiful game I\'ve played so far. I also base this on screens of future releases (Rallisport vs. V-Rally 3), that GT3 only pushes 25% of the PS2 and to the fact that I do know a lot on the PS2\'s hardware and think it is far more capable than what most games out now are making you believe.
What I thought, just a hunch...
Basing this on what I\'ve read from developers and my own knowledge in this field. As I already said above, I think the PS2\'s hardware is far more capable than what most games out now are making you believe. It has potential. Another one is the freedom that the hardware gives developers of how to accomplish their goals.
What are you saying here? I gather you think it will be better...are you trying to make a point?
Well, yes. But it\'s a contradiction to say that it is easy to develop for and far more advanced - but only toss out games that are equal or slightly better than current PS2 games.
To compare to 2nd generation PS2 games is quite good, but to surpass them is applausable.
Also, what do you know about Xbox\'s hardware? Do you know enough about it and it\'s capabilities to draw a fair comparison to PS2\'s? How about to know what it\'s able to produce and what we will be seeing in the next few years?:rolleyes:
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You name DoA3,
I also named a few others....
I also base this on screens of future releases (Rallisport vs. V-Rally 3),
You go ahead and compare screens...I\'d rather stay out of that one. :D
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What I thought, just a hunch...
Actually it\'s a bit more than that. The 25% GT3 uses is fact, aswell as the fact that future games do look better and can compete with Xbox. I suppose we\'re getting back to how much potential does PS2 have? I already had a debate about this - I base it on what I read from developers and screens they present. It\'s a bit more than a hunch.
What are you saying here? I gather you think it will be better...are you trying to make a point?
No I never said that. You asked me to why I think that both consoles have their advantages and disadvantages right? I didn\'t say anything about one being better than the other. ;)
Don\'t worry though, since you\'re not a techhead, I won\'t drag you into a technical debate (which obviously makes me believe that both have their + and -).
To compare to 2nd generation PS2 games is quite good, but to surpass them is applausable.
Actually most PS2 games you\'re comparing are 1st generation games not second. Who determins anyway what is a 1st and 2nd generation game? GT3, Baulders Gate, Metal Gear Solid 2, Jak & Daxter, Virtua Fighter 4 and most other games is the first attempt on a new hardware. If I were to rate any of these games as 2nd generation it would be Jak & Daxter which is the first to really push the PS2\'s vector (which is where the power is).
Looks like an advantage for Xbox...
Fact is, I don\'t see this advantage in current comparasments or with future releases. Can\'t deny that either.
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Okay--you cannot base anything on screenshots therefore Vrally3 connot possibly be compared to Ralisport yet. How many times have we seen a beautiful game with stills only to be horribly dissappointed by the in game graphics?
Seven, if you\'d like I could dig up dozens of posts where you trash the xbox, I\'m too lazy, but you, I and everyone here knows they are out there.
And I\'m sick of this 25% of PS2 power crap. That\'s a number delivered to us by Sony and their "performance analizer 2", the creators of the emotion engine. I\'d take that lightly at best.
MS said that Halo uses less than 50% of xbox\'s power--I can\'t believe that either. It\'s all common sense. But you take all the optimistic numbers for the PS2 then compare them to the pessimistic ones for the xbox and proclaim that the two machines are about equal. That\'s not science or research, it\'s fanboyism, partiality and ignorance. But of course we\'ve had this discussion before haven\'t we, Seven? I remember you bringing in what Sony and Square and other Sony 1st or 2nd party devs said about the PS2 and proclaimed that as factual.
When I quoted what 3rd party devs and 3rd party tech reviews said about the PS2 and xbox (their opinion being that xbox is CLEARLY more powerful and advanced) you went away and never posted in that message again. Curious isn\'t it?
Now you are having the same argument again, bringing up the same points that have no validity because they are either your personal thoughts about the hardware, and you are obviously biased or quotes by Sony about their own machine--again, clearly not reliable sources (not only in this thread).
You can name a couple ports that faired less well on the xbox, but I can name many more that are much better--and you know a port is almost always much worse because it is a port. Devs dump the PS2 code into the xbox, do some optimization and voula better framerate, draw distance and texture quality. Again, history dictates that this shouldn\'t happen, but it does. Why? Because the xbox is more powerful.
VF4 is a great game, but it does not match the graphics of DOA3. Even if you disregard the jaggies, you have to consider the size of the environments, the superior lighting (especially in the forest level) and the smoother models. VF4 is a better game to play, but to look at, it falls short.
There is not a PS2 game that can match Halo (environment size, texture quality and VARIETY, AI, enemies on screen, vehicle implementation), DOA3, Ralisport or even Wreckless. These are first gen games, with crappy dev kits. All the games that look good for the PS2 are recent games. See a pattern?
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No I never said that. You asked me to why I think that both consoles have their advantages and disadvantages right? I didn\'t say anything about one being better than the other.
But you did say they are equal...just wondering why you think this?
Actually it\'s a bit more than that. The 25% GT3 uses is fact, aswell as the fact that future games do look better and can compete with Xbox. I suppose we\'re getting back to how much potential does PS2 have? I already had a debate about this - I base it on what I read from developers and screens they present. It\'s a bit more than a hunch.
Not much more...I wouldn\'t go comparing screens for obvious reasons that they could be bad captures, early developement and what not...I\'m not debating how much power the PS2 has used up...that never came into question. I asked you to compare the two systems and tell me why PS2 and Xbox are equals as far as graphics go...
Fact is, I don\'t see this advantage in current comparasments or with future releases. Can\'t deny that either.
Why do you keep bringing up future this and that...I\'m basing all my posts on what is out right now. I\'m not a fortune teller and have no idea what tomorrow might bring...not enough to draw up silly conclusions;)
So far you haven\'t made a point...would you like to continue?
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Originally posted by mm
fact?
the xbox can do SLIGHTLY better graphics
yes, SLIGHTLY
wtf do you expect from a two year difference
take a look at the spyhunter port, who does it better?
take a look at vrally3 vs rallisport, who does it better?
bah, this is a waste of time to argue over petty crap
the xbox is a frickin let down so far, so why argue over it
naah don\'t look at port...from you naahh...
V-Rally3? a 3rd generation PS2 game...judging by pics Rallisport is better! though I have to wait to see both on my TV:)
Shenmue2 still looks better than many PS2 titles...
but I know mm...you\'re simply ****ting around here...isn\'t it ?:p
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Okay, Watchdog you\'re on alright.
Seven, if you\'d like I could dig up dozens of posts where you trash the xbox, I\'m too lazy, but you, I and everyone here knows they are out there.
Lets just get something cleared right now: I don\'t trash the Xbox. I debate about certain aspects of it and I get pissed when people proclaim Xbox to be better without even being able to back that up. I give credit where it is due (Halo, Rallisport), but I usually don\'t bash Xbox with short comments. But please, think you can back it up? Be my guest - go get me those posts where I apparently diss or trash Xbox.
And I\'m sick of this 25% of PS2 power crap. That\'s a number delivered to us by Sony and their "performance analizer 2", the creators of the emotion engine. I\'d take that lightly at best.
Well then that is your own choice. Everyone can believe what they want, but when someone does believe it, don\'t ***** about it. Either debate it or leave it. If you think this number is invalid (btw Sony did not post this number, it was a 2nd party developer), tell us why you think it? Or does it fall under that category "everything from Sony is false"?
MS said that Halo uses less than 50% of xbox\'s power--I can\'t believe that either. It\'s all common sense. But you take all the optimistic numbers for the PS2 then compare them to the pessimistic ones for the xbox and proclaim that the two machines are about equal. That\'s not science or research, it\'s fanboyism, partiality and ignorance. But of course we\'ve had this discussion before haven\'t we, Seven? I remember you bringing in what Sony and Square and other Sony 1st or 2nd party devs said about the PS2 and proclaimed that as factual.
Than I do find it VERY amusing how the best that they could achieve was 30 fps and then claiming it to be 50% of what Xbox has to offer. And mind you, these numbers (lets say they are true) can\'t be compared to the messured data of the Performance Analizer 2. I\'d say that the 50% Bungie is claiming is probably just a guess on what they have achieved.
When I quoted what 3rd party devs and 3rd party tech reviews said about the PS2 and xbox (their opinion being that xbox is CLEARLY more powerful and advanced) you went away and never posted in that message again. Curious isn\'t it?
Wasn\'t intentional. Must of been after my laptop was in for repairs.
Now you are having the same argument again, bringing up the same points that have no validity because they are either your personal thoughts about the hardware, and you are obviously biased or quotes by Sony about their own machine--again, clearly not reliable sources (not only in this thread).
You can name a couple ports that faired less well on the xbox, but I can name many more that are much better--and you know a port is almost always much worse because it is a port. Devs dump the PS2 code into the xbox, do some optimization and voula better framerate, draw distance and texture quality. Again, history dictates that this shouldn\'t happen, but it does. Why? Because the xbox is more powerful.
LOL, I\'m sorry but this is hardly because Xbox is more powerful but that it\'s easier to develop for. A port can\'t just be ported over to Xbox - it just ain\'t possible. They need to rewrite the whole graphics engine.
VF4 is a great game, but it does not match the graphics of DOA3. Even if you disregard the jaggies, you have to consider the size of the environments, the superior lighting (especially in the forest level) and the smoother models. VF4 is a better game to play, but to look at, it falls short.
As I already said, VF4 looks IMO just slightly better. But lets have this debate sometime when most members here get their own copy (and I don\'t have to base this of in-game footage on DVD). k?
There is not a PS2 game that can match Halo (environment size, texture quality and VARIETY, AI, enemies on screen, vehicle implementation), DOA3, Ralisport or even Wreckless. These are first gen games, with crappy dev kits. All the games that look good for the PS2 are recent games. See a pattern?
The environment size, texture quality, variety, AI, enemies on screen, vehicle implementation are indeed very impressive - you fail to mention though that it runs at mear 30 fps. At least I can say that in MGS2 EVERYTHING is at 60 fps with no framedrops, stunning water effects, heaps of enemies on screen, almost everything is interactive, great AI and the probably most stunning weather effects I\'ve seen in a game so far. No, I don\'t see the pattern.
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Originally posted by mm
no way, ps2 launch titles crushed my beloved DC graphically
SSx
Timesplitters
Kessen
naah...Soul Calibur,Shenmue...naahh...
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Why do you keep bringing up future this and that...I\'m basing all my posts on what is out right now. I\'m not a fortune teller and have no idea what tomorrow might bring...not enough to draw up silly conclusions
So far you haven\'t made a point...would you like to continue?
Reread my post:
"Fact is, I don\'t see this advantage in current comparasments or with future releases. Can\'t deny that either."
That is my point. Do I need to continue?
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V-Rally3? a 3rd generation PS2 game...judging by pics Rallisport is better! though I have to wait to see both on my TV
Why 3rd generation? It\'s more like 2nd if you ask me... besides, has Eden Studios brought a PS2 game out yet? Up to my knowledge it\'s their first attempt on the PS2 hardware. Just because it looks outstanding doesn\'t mean it\'s 3rd generation or whatever.
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damnit , why do you guys take a simple argument and make it so complicated?
:nut:
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Might be too late to chime in with this...
Who says you have to own a console to give fair judgement?
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Originally posted by seven
Reread my post:
"Fact is, I don\'t see this advantage in current comparasments or with future releases. Can\'t deny that either."
That is my point. Do I need to continue?
naah Project Ego,Brute Force naah
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thats a requirement ash
its like complaining about politics when ya dont even vote
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*cough* oh (http://www.appeal.be/AW/html/TLP/Media.htm) *cough*
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Originally posted by seven
Reread my post:
"Fact is, I don\'t see this advantage in current comparasments or with future releases. Can\'t deny that either."
That is my point. Do I need to continue?
Right, you don\'t see it...what are you trying to debate?
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okay so tell me, what do you see?
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Originally posted by Rikku
Right, you don\'t see it...what are you trying to debate?
In case you didn\'t notice, this thread is the result of a rash of bad press from the xbox Japan launch being reported in this forum. Apparently the Japanese don\'t see this advantage in current comparisons either. WTF are you trying to debate? Or are you?
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short and simple...I see better graphics on my Xbox than my PS2...
I\'m not bashing the PS2, just stating the obvious...
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Originally posted by Heretic
WTF are you trying to debate? Or are you?
Heretic got it, I wasn\'t trying to debate anything. Just stating my opinion, and having to defend it...
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Originally posted by Rikku
short and simple...I see better graphics on my Xbox than my PS2...
I\'m not bashing the PS2, just stating the obvious...
I see better graphics on my PS2 than my PSX. :yawn:
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He\'s probably basing that on that fact that currentely no PS2 games can match the quality in graphics of Dead or Alive 3, Wreckless, Halo, JSRF and the Xbox usually gets the "cleaner" port...not always the case, but the most common.
Your opinion you had to defend? (above your proclaimed "opinion" that started this discussion)
I guess you only see what you want to see...
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I guess you only see what you want to see...
It\'s what I do see...don\'t take it so personally.
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Ok, this debate has been taken WAY out out context. You guys have overlooked the obvious. Let\'s compare launches.
Japanese Launch -
PS2 is a clear cut winner here. M$ flopped in Japan and everyone knows is. The PS2 because of the company Sony made those PS2\'s sell in Japan like hotcakes. There\'s no denying it, X-Box flopped, PS2 boomed.
American Launch -
This is debatable. I will give X-Box the edge on this one. That shortage really put a damper on American sales, limiting Sony to their 500,000. (me getting mine on launch day :) ) However, throughout the year Sony managed to re-establish themselves. However, due to the MASS hype of the X-Box and the fact there was no shortage for X-Boxes, everyone was able to get theirs.
European Lauch -
Well, I do not know much about the European launch for PS2, but from what I\'ve heard it went well. There are some bad vibes surrounding the X-Box\'s European debut... to say the least.
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LOL...first you say the thread has been taken out of context, then you go and bring in another topic that has nothing to do with anything...
Silly:p
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Originally posted by Ginko
LOL...first you say the thread has been taken out of context, then you go and bring in another topic that has nothing to do with anything...
Silly:p
but yet it does...
Were talking about which system is better. Well, if I am correct a system can be judged very easily on how many people buy it. Let\'s put it this way, success begets success.
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
but yet it does...
Were talking about which system is better. Well, if I am correct a system can be judged very easily on how many people buy it. Let\'s put it this way, success begets success.
The PS2 has been out for 2 years, it wouldn\'t be a fair comparison.
The PS2 also had a hype around it built soley on PSX and its\' success.
Nice try though...
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Originally posted by Ginko
The PS2 has been out for 2 years, it wouldn\'t be a fair comparison.
The PS2 also had a hype around it built soley on PSX and its\' success.
Nice try though...
right, I was talking about the launches... Both have had American and Japanese launches, how is it unfair?
I think you misconstrued what I said.
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Originally posted by Rikku
It\'s what I do see...don\'t take it so personally.
You\'re always going to run into trouble stating your opinion is fact. How was seven taking it personally? Don\'t bother to answer, I know a diversionary tactic when I see one.
Originally posted by Ginko
LOL...first you say the thread has been taken out of context, then you go and bring in another topic that has nothing to do with anything...
BillyOG is simply going to the root of this thread. The amount of snickering lately at MS woes. Like mm said very early on, it will soon pass as it always has. Until next time...
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You\'re always going to run into trouble stating your opinion is fact. How was seven taking it personally? Don\'t bother to answer, I know a diversionary tactic when I see one.
Did you read the thread? Seven brought alot in that wasn\'t necesarry, it seems as if he\'s trying to defend the PS2 whole heartedly...he\'s done this in other debates.
Looks as if most of you can\'t take the fact that Xbox is on par or looking better than PS2 games right now...I\'m not going to argue with jaded PS2 owners.
Rikku did just fine...;)
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
right, I was talking about the launches... Both have had American and Japanese launches, how is it unfair?
I think you misconstrued what I said.
You also must see why it would be unfair to compare the two...
Obvious reasons are the PS2 was riding high on the success of PSX, MS is new to the console business, etc...
You understand I\'m sure...
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____________
Well then that is your own choice. Everyone can believe what they want, but when someone does believe it, don\'t ***** about it. Either debate it or leave it. If you think this number is invalid (btw Sony did not post this number, it was a 2nd party developer), tell us why you think it? Or does it fall under that category "everything from Sony is false"?
____________
For all intents and purposes 2nd party=Sony. It\'s marketing, of course everything they say is false or at least optimistic. Whenever a 3rd party dev or journalist compares the consoles the xbox comes out on top. Of course, these articles you never believe, and your disclaimer is always the same: "I don\'t have a quote" or "I just spoke to a dev..." or "I can\'t back this up but..." translation: BS. You expect everyone to take your word and views on the hardware because what, you\'ve read some tech articles, joined a forum and have a computer science degree (if that). Well I\'ve done all those things too, but I\'m not arrogant enough to proclaim my views ahead of those whose job it is to rate and assess hardware. You love your PS2 so that you made it your life mission, well it\'s BS, and only those who hold their PS2s as closely and firmly to their chests as you do give you any serious merit.
_________________
Than I do find it VERY amusing how the best that they could achieve was 30 fps and then claiming it to be 50% of what Xbox has to offer. And mind you, these numbers (lets say they are true) can\'t be compared to the messured data of the Performance Analizer 2. I\'d say that the 50% Bungie is claiming is probably just a guess on what they have achieved.
_________________
Halo is a graphical and technical marvel--50% of the power is extraordinary (if it\'s true). Everything you say about the xbox has the "I don\'t really know, but I read a review or saw the kiosk" flavour to it. Yes Halo runs at 30fps, but how many PS2 games have two dozen VARIED (elites, grunts, brutes, banshees, etc) enemies onscreen in the middle a huge ravine in the middle of a snow storm? Zero. MGS has half a dozen or so of the same enemy on screen in a little crowded room. Sure it looks good, but you cannot compare the two. Once again I have played/own and completed both games. Have you?
__________
LOL, I\'m sorry but this is hardly because Xbox is more powerful but that it\'s easier to develop for. A port can\'t just be ported over to Xbox - it just ain\'t possible. They need to rewrite the whole graphics engine.
__________
Either way, in the past ports have suffered, now with the xbox ports succeed the original. The fact of the matter is that a port on the xbox, in the vast majority of cases, looks better, plays better, sounds better, and often is longer. And either way, there is a lot of cannibalizing of code that would be better served if programmed from the ground up on the xbox. There is no denying that last point. If the game was designed from the ground up on the xbox it would perform and look better. So since you grant that ports look better on xbox, how much better would the same game be if designed from scratch for the xbox?
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As I already said, VF4 looks IMO just slightly better. But lets have this debate sometime when most members here get their own copy (and I don\'t have to base this of in-game footage on DVD). k?
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Or maybe you should get your own copy of DOA3. k?
You dismiss the xbox so easily--you don\'t have it, you have no intention of getting it and will never concede this point because all you have to do is put "IMO" and everything is magically untouchable. Like I said even if you take away the jaggies from VF4 (and there are very noticeable--this from the arcade, I\'ve never seen the PS2 version) there still isn\'t a comparison. The model quality, the textures, the variety on screen, and huge environments it\'s all not done in VF4. With the DOA3 engine you can go from a crowded oriental room with exquisite detail, fly thorugh a wall and land in a large open area. With VF4 you get small rooms (relatively speaking) or medium sized out door levels, but never at the same time.
Speaking generally now: with the xbox everything is bigger and clearer and more varied.
The PS2 can make a 10x10 kitchen and have a shoot out with 6 guards and make it nice and smooth. Then you take that and compare it to Halo where the engine has to make accomodate the large and small and varied.
You being the God of all things technical, the most knowledgable of all, must be able to see the technical merits and level of difficulty present in coding an engine that can do all of this.
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i don\'t get where you people get so much free time to write so much **** into one single thread and have time to argue over petty things such as this. But hey, that\'s just me.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
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Well then that is your own choice. Everyone can believe what they want, but when someone does believe it, don\'t ***** about it. Either debate it or leave it. If you think this number is invalid (btw Sony did not post this number, it was a 2nd party developer), tell us why you think it? Or does it fall under that category "everything from Sony is false"?
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For all intents and purposes 2nd party=Sony. It\'s marketing, of course everything they say is false or at least optimistic. Whenever a 3rd party dev or journalist compares the consoles the xbox comes out on top. Of course, these articles you never believe, and your disclaimer is always the same: "I don\'t have a quote" or "I just spoke to a dev..." or "I can\'t back this up but..." translation: BS. You expect everyone to take your word and views on the hardware because what, you\'ve read some tech articles, joined a forum and have a computer science degree (if that). Well I\'ve done all those things too, but I\'m not arrogant enough to proclaim my views ahead of those whose job it is to rate and assess hardware. You love your PS2 so that you made it your life mission, well it\'s BS, and only those who hold their PS2s as closely and firmly to their chests as you do give you any serious merit.
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Than I do find it VERY amusing how the best that they could achieve was 30 fps and then claiming it to be 50% of what Xbox has to offer. And mind you, these numbers (lets say they are true) can\'t be compared to the messured data of the Performance Analizer 2. I\'d say that the 50% Bungie is claiming is probably just a guess on what they have achieved.
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Halo is a graphical and technical marvel--50% of the power is extraordinary (if it\'s true). Everything you say about the xbox has the "I don\'t really know, but I read a review or saw the kiosk" flavour to it. Yes Halo runs at 30fps, but how many PS2 games have two dozen VARIED (elites, grunts, brutes, banshees, etc) enemies onscreen in the middle a huge ravine in the middle of a snow storm? Zero. MGS has half a dozen or so of the same enemy on screen in a little crowded room. Sure it looks good, but you cannot compare the two. Once again I have played/own and completed both games. Have you?
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LOL, I\'m sorry but this is hardly because Xbox is more powerful but that it\'s easier to develop for. A port can\'t just be ported over to Xbox - it just ain\'t possible. They need to rewrite the whole graphics engine.
__________
Either way, in the past ports have suffered, now with the xbox ports succeed the original. The fact of the matter is that a port on the xbox, in the vast majority of cases, looks better, plays better, sounds better, and often is longer. And either way, there is a lot of cannibalizing of code that would be better served if programmed from the ground up on the xbox. There is no denying that last point. If the game was designed from the ground up on the xbox it would perform and look better. So since you grant that ports look better on xbox, how much better would the same game be if designed from scratch for the xbox?
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As I already said, VF4 looks IMO just slightly better. But lets have this debate sometime when most members here get their own copy (and I don\'t have to base this of in-game footage on DVD). k?
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Or maybe you should get your own copy of DOA3. k?
You dismiss the xbox so easily--you don\'t have it, you have no intention of getting it and will never concede this point because all you have to do is put "IMO" and everything is magically untouchable. Like I said even if you take away the jaggies from VF4 (and there are very noticeable--this from the arcade, I\'ve never seen the PS2 version) there still isn\'t a comparison. The model quality, the textures, the variety on screen, and huge environments it\'s all not done in VF4. With the DOA3 engine you can go from a crowded oriental room with exquisite detail, fly thorugh a wall and land in a large open area. With VF4 you get small rooms (relatively speaking) or medium sized out door levels, but never at the same time.
Speaking generally now: with the xbox everything is bigger and clearer and more varied.
The PS2 can make a 10x10 kitchen and have a shoot out with 6 guards and make it nice and smooth. Then you take that and compare it to Halo where the engine has to make accomodate the large and small and varied.
You being the God of all things technical, the most knowledgable of all, must be able to see the technical merits and level of difficulty present in coding an engine that can do all of this.
and I thought Mondays were bad...
I\'m done talking to ignorant people, BTW Watchdog, that\'s you.
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Originally posted by Ginko
Did you read the thread? Seven brought alot in that wasn\'t necesarry, it seems as if he\'s trying to defend the PS2 whole heartedly...he\'s done this in other debates.
Looks as if most of you can\'t take the fact that Xbox is on par or looking better than PS2 games right now...I\'m not going to argue with jaded PS2 owners.
Honestly Ginko, I don\'t see the problem with defending the PS2 here at PSX2 central. Swap opinion for fact and you\'re bound to get called on it. Why don\'t you go back and re-read the thread, seven isn\'t the one who started dragging things off topic and FYI, none of this forum chat is necessary.
Let me tweak your other words a bit and see how well they sit;
Looks as if some of you xbox fans can\'t take the fact that Xbox is on par or looking only slightly better than PS2 games right now.
That\'s certainly closer to the way I see it, especially considering where it\'s being said. Oh well, not that it matters...
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Originally posted by Heretic
Honestly Ginko, I don\'t see the problem with defending the PS2 here at PSX2 central. Swap opinion for fact and you\'re bound to get called on it. Why don\'t you go back and re-read the thread, seven isn\'t the one who started dragging things off topic and FYI, none of this forum chat is necessary.
But he tried...bringing up the future and all. As if he knows...
Let me tweak your other words a bit and see how well they sit;
Looks as if some of you xbox fans can\'t take the fact that Xbox is on par or looking only slightly better than PS2 games right now.
No, I said it how I meant it. Like I said earlier, I\'m not going to argue with jaded/blind PS2 fanboys...
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
and I thought Mondays were bad...
I\'m done talking to ignorant people, BTW Watchdog, that\'s you.
That was pretty weak...I\'ll assume you are joking.;)
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Watchdog
I\'m still waiting for you to back your statement up - the one where I supposedly trash and diss Xbox...
For all intents and purposes 2nd party=Sony. It\'s marketing, of course everything they say is false or at least optimistic. Whenever a 3rd party dev or journalist compares the consoles the xbox comes out on top. Of course, these articles you never believe, and your disclaimer is always the same: "I don\'t have a quote" or "I just spoke to a dev..." or "I can\'t back this up but..." translation: BS.
I\'ll agree to a certain extend that marketing is a big isssue, but to just lable every interview and analys of a 2nd party source as a lie is a bit too harsh. The reason why I give more credit to 2nd party developers, rather than 3rd is simply because those are the guys who are really getting somewhere with PS2 at the moment. It\'s a plain fact that there are heaps of developers that are having big trouble with PS2 development. Can we take an analsys of one of these teams serious? No. Of course someone will rate the Xbox hardware more powerful if they can get more power out of it, but as long as they aren\'t pushing PS2, how would they be able to judge which system is better?
And not all my sources are 1/2nd party. Konami has also impressed me heaps with how much they achieved with MGS2. And we do remember what Hideo had to say a long time ago about both systems. That Xbox is slightly more powerful. That was a long time ago when he said that (and I believe he\'s been working on both platforms) and now he even said that he didn\'t max out PS2 yet. And do you know what, even if MGS2 is the most impressive game out for PS2 as of yet, I would still give more credit to Naughty Dog for their achievement in J&D and how they are using the system. From a technical standpoint, I find it heaps more impressive.
You expect everyone to take your word and views on the hardware because what, you\'ve read some tech articles, joined a forum and have a computer science degree (if that). Well I\'ve done all those things too, but I\'m not arrogant enough to proclaim my views ahead of those whose job it is to rate and assess hardware. You love your PS2 so that you made it your life mission, well it\'s BS, and only those who hold their PS2s as closely and firmly to their chests as you do give you any serious merit.
What are you trying to prove or debate? I find it laughable that everytime you start an arguement, you always try to prove how much I love my PS2. Isn\'t that a little pathetic?
Halo is a graphical and technical marvel--50% of the power is extraordinary (if it\'s true). Everything you say about the xbox has the "I don\'t really know, but I read a review or saw the kiosk" flavour to it.
Extraordinary it is, that the best they could achieve with 50% is a mear 30 fps. I never denied that this game is very impressive, but calling it a "graphical and technical marvel" at best is a letdown just due to the fact that it runs at ONLY 30 fps.
Yes Halo runs at 30fps, but how many PS2 games have two dozen VARIED (elites, grunts, brutes, banshees, etc) enemies onscreen in the middle a huge ravine in the middle of a snow storm? Zero. MGS has half a dozen or so of the same enemy on screen in a little crowded room. Sure it looks good, but you cannot compare the two. Once again I have played/own and completed both games. Have you?
MGS2 might only have half a dozen with highly detailed soldiers reacting to each other, going in groups, making realistic decisions and in a rainstorm that is absolutely mindblowing. Awesome lightning, shadows and interaction between all objects in a room (shoot papers, pans, windows, pretty much everything). Then comes the water effects with all its bubbles, the room with aprox. 60 to 100 soldiers on screen (might not be doing much, but none-the-less).
So I name MGS2 and the best you can say is "Sure it looks good, but you cannot compare the two". Great huh. As soon as there\'s a worthy competitor, it\'s easy to back down and say you can\'t compare them. You named a "graphical and technical marvel" - I did too. Either way, what\'s your point?
You dismiss the xbox so easily--you don\'t have it, you have no intention of getting it and will never concede this point because all you have to do is put "IMO" and everything is magically untouchable. Like I said even if you take away the jaggies from VF4 (and there are very noticeable--this from the arcade, I\'ve never seen the PS2 version) there still isn\'t a comparison. The model quality, the textures, the variety on screen, and huge environments it\'s all not done in VF4. With the DOA3 engine you can go from a crowded oriental room with exquisite detail, fly thorugh a wall and land in a large open area. With VF4 you get small rooms (relatively speaking) or medium sized out door levels, but never at the same time.
Maybe you should play the PS2 version then, or watch some in-game footage off your TV.
Speaking generally now: with the xbox everything is bigger and clearer and more varied.
The PS2 can make a 10x10 kitchen and have a shoot out with 6 guards and make it nice and smooth. Then you take that and compare it to Halo where the engine has to make accomodate the large and small and varied.
You being the God of all things technical, the most knowledgable of all, must be able to see the technical merits and level of difficulty present in coding an engine that can do all of this.
This is really pathetic. Have you ever played Jak & Daxter? One graphical and technical marvel aswell. From the 10x10 kitchen (or room) up to the highest point on the island where you see everything -> no loading times. You have one world without one single loading time. At 60 fps mind you, not 30 (Halo).
Just between you and me Watchdog - what are you trying to prove this time? How superior Xbox is in all aspects? Seems to me you just can\'t deal with the fact that current games do not surpass PS2 (eventhough they should be using your logic). Get over it, this is just one out of many threads in a console-debating forum that won\'t make Xbox look better.
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damn halo and 30 fps, someone should be shot
:mad:
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ah yes :) half the graphical quality of Halo and double the frame rate and we will see how pretty it is :)
im not responding to much, but i did want to let everyone know that 30fps (no matter how smooth it is) is rediculous on such a console, this is a game where they focused on polygons and textures and didnt worry about the most important aspect of the graphics.. the framerate..
how about we halve the framerate of J&D and up the polygons, size, textures, and animations (if possible :p) and lets look at how good it looks.. kay? hmm
XBox\'s best games graphically are better than PS2\'s best games graphically, PS2\'s best games graphically are better than most of XBox\'s games graphically, Dreamcasts best games graphically are better than PS2\'s less than impressive games gpaphically..
get over it, and give me 60fps dammit!
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^ im with this guy
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Originally posted by Ginko
The PS2 has been out for 2 years, it wouldn\'t be a fair comparison.
The PS2 also had a hype around it built soley on PSX and its\' success.
Nice try though...
ahhhh but yet the PS2 has been around for two years but yet everyone still wants to debate the better hardware is Xbox and that the graphics are better on Xbox
well that really isnt a fair debate no is it - xbox is stronger therefore it has better graphic potential
PS2 was released before so it will have the user base edge
you cant claim one thing cant be compared but yet compare the other thing under the same circumstances - that would be double standards and we wouldnt want Alteredbeast to be upset now would we :)
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Seven I\'m not going to wade through all your posts looking to prove anything let alone the fact that you love your PS2 too much to admit the xbox is a great system.
I said you can\'t compare MGS to Halo because Halo is a much bigger, longer, and complex game. Halo does everything MGS does only with environments that are 10x as big, more varied, better textures, with twice as many enemies (that do interact and respond with excellent AI). Halo doesn\'t throw you into a small room with half a dozen of the same enemy and restrict you the way MGS does. MGS looks good, but the scope of the game and its engine isn\'t anyway comparable to Halo. Just the physics engine alone in Halo is remarkable--I\'ve never seen a video of MGS like the Halo Jump video. Because MGS engine doesn\'t give you that kind of freedom.
This is what I find laughable:
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quote:
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You expect everyone to take your word and views on the hardware because what, you\'ve read some tech articles, joined a forum and have a computer science degree (if that). Well I\'ve done all those things too, but I\'m not arrogant enough to proclaim my views ahead of those whose job it is to rate and assess hardware. You love your PS2 so that you made it your life mission, well it\'s BS, and only those who hold their PS2s as closely and firmly to their chests as you do give you any serious merit.
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What are you trying to prove or debate? I find it laughable that everytime you start an arguement, you always try to prove how much I love my PS2. Isn\'t that a little pathetic?
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I summed up EXACTLY what you are and how you post. The only reason you get away with all the crap that you do is because this is a PS2 board. If NYPPZ ever said "I just had a conversation with a guy from Square and he said..." he would be banned, laughed at and ridiculed for months. No one bats an eye when one of their PS2 darlings posts garbage like that.
Because this isn\'t Console Debating--people who gush the PS2 don\'t get flamed, people who post stupidly about the amazing PS2 get support, people who flagrantly bash the xbox are welcomed and encouraged. People who like the xbox have to check and double check every fact, have to qualify every statement with how much they love their PS2s and have to put up with so much crap it\'s no wonder there are so few here.
This forum is really really getting pathetic. It once was the best on the net, now it\'s just like every other forum. You know I went to TBX and it\'s exactly like this one. People who post lovingly about the xbox are encouraged, people who try to appreciate the PS2 get attacked, their posts become filled with xbox zealots posting screenshots and pointing our jaggies.
So you tell me how this forum is any different from TBX? The same small minds occupy this forum, the only difference is that their small minds occupy the other side of the fence.
There is so much hypocracy around here: PS2 zealots pointing out jaggies, the lack of quality games for the xbox, ports. Newsflash assholes: that happened to the PS2 also, only it was worse.
The jaggies are worse, the graphics are worse, framerates are worse, the sound is worse, you get two controller ports, no HD, no real 5.1 or any chance of HDTV support in games, a piss poor DVD player, no modem, no solid online plans--all for EXACTLY the same price as an xbox (except for Euro of course).
Yet, of course, it\'s an inferior product. Even IF the graphics were "as good" and the sound was "as good", all the extras you get with the xbox still make it a better purchase.
Yet, of course, it\'s an inferior product.
Sure it\'s getting ports now--it\'s new and companies are porting their successful games to xbox to make some quick cash. Ports are going to even out and the PS2 will get its share of xbox ports. PS2 got it\'s share when it launched and DC advocates were quick to point it out--anyone remember: "the port/sequel/rehash station". That was the state of the PS2 up to only a couple months ago.
I find it odd that in a post dedicated to pointing out how bad this forum has become, turned out to be one of the worse examples of it.
How short your memories are and how pathetic you have become.
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I\'m jumping aboard the Bobs_Hardware bandwagon, yeah, now there\'s three supporters!
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Watchdog: Please use the QUOTE feature.. [quote.][/quote.] (without the period).. Or use the button that says "Quote" in the vB code field..
It makes it much easier to read.
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
XBox\'s best games graphically are better than PS2\'s best games graphically, PS2\'s best games graphically are better than most of XBox\'s games graphically, Dreamcasts best games graphically are better than PS2\'s less than impressive games gpaphically..
It\'s unfair:)...XBox has 4 months of life and developers stopped to support the DC!
You exposed true raw "facts"...but in unfair conditions:)
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life isn\'t fair, deal with it. If Microsoft wanted to match PS2\'s sales they should have launched it in Oct. 2000.
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
life isn\'t fair, deal with it. If Microsoft wanted to match PS2\'s sales they should have launched it in Oct. 2000.
Who knows...
...excuse me if I was a little brutal with you days ago...
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Seems like only a few months ago a topic was started very much like this one only instead it was begun by a PS2 fan lamenting on how much of an xbox-fanboy-PS2-bashing haven this forum had become.
Watchdog, lighten up. In the end what goes on here is of no consequence as to whether any console will succeed or fail. These forums are merely a barometer of what\'s happening week to week, not an influence and I\'m sure once this next storm in Europe passes it\'ll be back to business as usual in another week or two.
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Of course they have no iimpact. I don\'t come here to make a difference in the console wars, I come because it once was enjoyable. Now every thread turns into one much like this one.
If there isn\'t a point of attack at the xbox in a thread, some clown like Chrono introduces one and another thread is reduced to a xbox bash session.
Sure it won\'t get changed because this is a PS2 board and like I said NO attempt is made to curb it. Someone as equally inane as NYPPZ can get by so long as his/her console of choice is the PS2.
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Okay Watchdog,
I think your problem is that this forum (console-debating) was never intended to be a X-box forum or unbiased forum. I mean, if this is really console-debating, what are all this posts about Xbox games doing here? They don\'t have anything to do with console debating, so why get upset if certain members take this oppertunity to bash, trash or diss?
And do you know what, there\'s heaps of debating going on here (just ignore the brainless bashing), I just wonder why you don\'t post? With all respect (and I\'m not trying to offend you or anyone in here), but it seems more that you\'re upset about how Xbox is selling miserably in Japan (eventhough it should be selling heaps more) or that it isn\'t quite living up to the hype to everyone else.
I won\'t comment on the other stuff you posted (the one following my long reply) since you ignored most of my stuff anyway and your post being more directed to everyone rather than just to me.
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Originally posted by seven
Okay Watchdog,
I think your problem is that this forum (console-debating) was never intended to be a X-box forum or unbiased forum. I mean, if this is really console-debating, what are all this posts about Xbox games doing here? They don\'t have anything to do with console debating, so why get upset if certain members take this oppertunity to bash, trash or diss?
And do you know what, there\'s heaps of debating going on here (just ignore the brainless bashing), I just wonder why you don\'t post? With all respect (and I\'m not trying to offend you or anyone in here), but it seems more that you\'re upset about how Xbox is selling miserably in Japan (eventhough it should be selling heaps more) or that it isn\'t quite living up to the hype to everyone else.
I won\'t comment on the other stuff you posted (the one following my long reply) since you ignored most of my stuff anyway and your post being more directed to everyone rather than just to me.
I did sujest a X box mini forum within the site but it was deamed that console Debating was being used for X box news anyway.
i think people have to remeber that this IS a PS2 site after all and if they want X box exclusive talk then they there are plenty of site out there to be a member of
oh and
[I AM BEING BLOODY SARCASTIC NOW BIZOEE!]
i just with that members like Bizoee would realise this ! :rolleyes:
[/I AM BEING BLOODY SARCASTIC NOW BIZOEE!]
[/b][/color]
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Originally posted by ooseven
I did sujest a X box mini forum within the site but it was deamed that console Debating was being used for X box news anyway.
i think people have to remeber that this IS a PS2 site after all and if they want X box exclusive talk then they there are plenty of site out there to be a member of
oh and
[I AM BEING BLOODY SARCASTIC NOW BIZOEE!]
i just with that members like Bizoee would realise this ! :rolleyes:
[/I AM BEING BLOODY SARCASTIC NOW BIZOEE!]
[/b][/color] [/B]
Call me Bizzio...you don\'t catch the point and you post always in the same way...
people could have some difficulties to understand when you are sarcastic...
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read later...
ok mate we are cool.
you just have to get used to my twisted sence of Humor.
I\'ll try :)
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Watchdog...
I agree with you...
Certain members, who shall remain nameless, often trash TXB when they are guilty of the exact same thing.
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i agree about that too
but. . .theres always a but ;)
if you go out and point fingers at every little thing you disagree with then you will end up just provoking more mindless debating
so instead of messing with say chrono because you think his statement doesnt make sense
why not wait till someone with a more reasonable opposing opinion to debate with
its really not as complicated as you make it out to be - certainly not 5 pages complicated damn
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Ok, I\'m going to place my final feelings on the situation. Which system is better we will never know for sure, but what we can tell is that PS2 leads the market and for obvious reasons. While I own an X-Box, PS2, and a Gamecube, I find it difficult to say which one is "the best". It is also hard to draw a conclusion on where each system will be two years from now, when the systems hit their prime. What I can say however is that I enjoy playing each system, as well as games on my computer. Here\'s the situation that a lot of people fall into, as well as the reason for many arguments over which system is better. I find it hard to play a system which has one or two good games out at the moment, when I have a system that has already had it\'s months full of good games. Another gripe people have is the massive amount of ports X-Box has compared to exclusives. While I\'m sure each port is improved, why wait when you can play a version that is out for what it is truly worth. Gamecube is pretty much the same way right now, although it\'s got some big things coming it\'s way. Which system is "the best", well, there\'s no answer, just an endless debate(such as this).
The funny thing about this entire debate started when a comment was made about how someone thought these were IGN forums. Then a man named Docwiz comes along and intices and argument, which lead to where we are now. This debate will never truly end until both systems are dead(past gen), but rather it will take rest and spark at any moment.
That my friends, is my final statement.
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But that\'s my whole point, and I\'m glad we are finally about to drop the loyalties and talk about it.
I don\'t want an xbox only forum nor a PS2 only forum. I want an open forum with openminded people.
Seven, you are wrong, I could care less how badly it sells in Japan, and beyond the suport issue, I don\'t care how it sells here in relation to PS2. What I care about are the people who feel it is their duty to post simpleminded comments in every xbox related thread. Or people who trash ANY game that is out for xbox simply because it is xbox and will, in fact, dismiss the game entirely if they can find a jaggie in the pic.
It\'s not negativity towards the xbox that I\'m speaking out against, it\'s hypocracy and mindless fanboyism that is the problem here. It\'s not that easy to ignore fanboyish posts when they are in every box thread and when the discussion about a game get diverted into how many systems have been sold or how many jaggies we can find or how large the controller is.
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Watchdog,most of people here like this,mm included...so we can do nothing! This stuff is not funny for us...but it\'s funny for the majority...
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There is a direct correlation between the Japan launch and the shift in (how should I say it?) flavor on this forum. You might think it\'s never been this bad but I think many PS2 fans would agree they\'ve been putting up with it since long before the US PS2 launch. Now it\'s your turn to deal with it. Payback\'s a bi*ch. Ain\'t it Dawg?
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What payback?
Are you implying that Watchdog was one of those that bashed PS2 like people are bashing XBox now?
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Originally posted by Ashford
What payback?
Are you implying that Watchdog was one of those that bashed PS2 like people are bashing XBox now?
Bingo!:)
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Originally posted by Ashford
What payback?
Are you implying that Watchdog was one of those that bashed PS2 like people are bashing XBox now?
not directly Watchdog, but every Xbox troll that bugged us bevor the launch and wanted us to believe that it will kill PS2 etc.
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I don\'t want an xbox only forum nor a PS2 only forum. I want an open forum with openminded people.
Well, this place is good for debates (as it always has been) and as other members repeatedly said already, ignore the small number of members that do bash the Xbox mindlessly. I mean come on Watchdog, we all know how some members like to rub in those jaggies presented in the screens of Xbox games, but is it so hard to ignore them? Since when do you care what they say anyway?
Sadly (well not really), this is a PS2 board and no matter which forum you will choose, you will find a slight to heavy biasness towards PS2. If you can\'t live with it, then you better search somewhere else, because the hard truth is, it won\'t change.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
I don\'t want an xbox only forum nor a PS2 only forum. I want an open forum with openminded people.
Yeah, and I want world peace.
There\'s no such thing as a utopia, not with people in it.
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There can be if the mods wanted it. That\'s it. Sure anyone can let a situation go unchecked and obviously it will continue. All that needs to be done is a little house cleaning.
And that stuff about payback, OMG how old are you? You didn\'t like the trolls so now you become one? I guess a lack of maturity is the hallmark of any good troll.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
And that stuff about payback,
So my statement qualifies me as one of those paying back xbox trolls? Fine, think of me however you wish, reverting back to common troll behavior yourself is not going to help change the nature of these forums. I\'ve suggested several times in this thread that you just ride out the latest round of needling and see what happens. Now I\'ll put it another way;
Act like a grownup and quit crying for the mods to make your life here better.
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fortunatley [unfortunately for some], i am one of the heaviest bashers of the xbox and m$. yet i feel have full restraint to do so. not only because im a mod [admin], but because i own one and am VERY dissapointed. ps2 killer what?
i cant [wont] change the way i feel towards the xbox and m$ untill my rants are reduced to moot points
and after the piss poor [© ooseven 2002] euro launch, that may be soon enough
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mm,
I\'m in the same boat your in. You just put it in nicer words than I could. Well, with a couple British slurrs here and there.
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Euro had a great launch in terms of games. And it is the best launch of any system anywhere. Will it sell at that price point? Probably not, but like I said, if MS doesn\'t invest any money in Euro, it won\'t lose any. Rallisport, Halo, JSRF, Gothem, DOA3, Amped, Oddworld, Tony Hawk’s, EA Sports, and Max Payne are all quality titles.
There has not been a launch with that many great titles ever.
Act like a grown up? I\'m the one lobbying for the fanboys and zealots to get dealt with and I\'m not a grown up? I\'m sorry, but the people who are talking trash and bashing the xbox are the ones in need of maturity. And when have I acted like a troll? A troll does not ask for a resolution, a troll initiates or endorses console bashing. Sound familiar?
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nope
DC had the greatest launch of all time
half those games u listed are ports or B rated at best
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It was the PS2 vs. TXB that killed DC... DC got stuck being the middle man and it didn\'t work out.
Meanwhile, GCN launched, and only the hardcore nintendo\'ers jumped on the bandwagon... but I jumped on anyway.
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Originally posted by BizioEE
This stuff is not funny for us...but it\'s funny for the majority...
I could go to the main forum and bash and laugh at PS2 postes but why I don\'t do that, it\'s because I respect ANY post on these boards.
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Nope, those are all great games,e specially for a launch. DC had a good launch, but not that good.
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I could go to the main forum and bash and laugh at PS2 postes but why I don\'t do that, it\'s because I respect ANY post on these boards.
Go ahead, they will ban you then
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You want to go somewhere and laugh at PS2, go to teamxbox\'s forums, where they don\'t even accept "inferior" systems. Try going there and even mentioning the PS2, or doing what you do now for X-Box, they won\'t even treat you like a person. So your upset that you can\'t go into our forums and laugh at PS2, just try mentioning it in teamxbox\'s forum and see what you get.
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
You want to go somewhere and laugh at PS2, go to teamxbox\'s forums, where they don\'t even accept "inferior" systems. Try going there and even mentioning the PS2, or doing what you do now for X-Box, they won\'t even treat you like a person. So your upset that you can\'t go into our forums and laugh at PS2, just try mentioning it in teamxbox\'s forum and see what you get.
:crying:
i just did and BOY do i wish i haden\'t !
all i said was "PS2" and i awoke with a sore head and @rse !
:crying:
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Actually, I do read the boards there, and they do just about the same thing there. On the respective boards, both systems are treated as inferiors. There really is little separating the two actually besides the fact that the best people here are MUCH better than the best over there.
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Ouch, Teamxbox\'s boards are very slow. :(
Anyway, they have a crapload of people online all the time, currently 220, but that\'s irrelevant. While here, there is console debating, they have "other console" section.
Anyway, stay away from there, it\'s nothing but bad news if you have anything positive to say about PS2.
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Some people have a reading disability...
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Some people have a disability period.
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Originally posted by pstwo
I could go to the main forum and bash and laugh at PS2 postes but why I don\'t do that, it\'s because I respect ANY post on these boards.
you are funny pstwo:)
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Originally posted by BizioEE
you are funny pstwo:)
:laughing: Thanks, but the reason I post that is because Chrono keeps bashing Xbox topics good new or bad new. I would never bash PS2 topic like he do with Xbox topics.. He needs to GROW-UP! I think he should be ban then less headaches. Chrono, take the PS2 outta your ass..
You want to go somewhere and laugh at PS2, go to teamxbox\'s forums, where they don\'t even accept "inferior" systems. Try going there and even mentioning the PS2, or doing what you do now for X-Box, they won\'t even treat you like a person. So your upset that you can\'t go into our forums and laugh at PS2, just try mentioning it in teamxbox\'s forum and see what you get.
"The One" Billy Gunn, do you think I want to do something stupid like that. I\'m NOT a TROLL like some other people are.
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Originally posted by pstwo
Thanks, but the reason I post that is because Chrono keeps bashing Xbox topics good new or bad new. I would never bash PS2 topic like he do with Xbox topics.. He needs to GROW-UP! I think he should be ban then less headaches. Chrono, take the PS2 outta your ass..
I know:)
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pstwo,
are you trying to wake an angry giant?
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
pstwo,
are you trying to wake an angry giant?
I want to start something? :rolleyes:
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Pstwo is one of the best poster here and he is NOT biased he\'s an all around gamer. Pstwo keeps this place updated and keep up the good work.:)
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Originally posted by rastalant
Pstwo is one of the best poster here and he is NOT biased he\'s an all around gamer. Pstwo keeps this place updated and keep up the good work.:)
Thanks rastalant! I want to keep up the great up-dates but I can\'t like before. rastalant, in this pass week I seen so much xbox news that I wish I could post them for you. I\'ll take a chance right now if I get ban from this post just to show you this up-date. Enjoy!
Xbox Update: Totaled
Whoooo!!1 Check this out!! They change the name from Crash to Totaled. :D
Majesco Games in association with Rage Software have reaffirmed plans to release their Xbox racer Totaled this June in America. Previously entitled Crash, the game is best described as a demolition derby style racer. The finished version will boast a dozen selectable vehicles, each constructed from over 10,000 polygons. Vehicles will incur a variety of damage modeling including destructible fenders, hoods, and doors. Running at a constant 60 frames per second, players can challenge their friends in a four-player split-screen competition on eight different tracks. In terms of solo play, Totaled will also include Career, Arcade and Team modes.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xengamers.com%2Fdocs%2Fnews%2Felements%2Ffiles%2Fxto1.jpg&hash=036521333b7b8efff6901f93f1cc884b70914d1d)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xengamers.com%2Fdocs%2Fnews%2Felements%2Ffiles%2Fxto2.jpg&hash=91f84fe0af27459881ec1e20b59fb746911304ce)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xengamers.com%2Fdocs%2Fnews%2Felements%2Ffiles%2Fxto3.jpg&hash=125c5f4dea3875be1f6a166e9065abc553de157a)
http://www.xengamers.com/docs/news/elements/files/xto5.jpg http://www.xengamers.com/docs/news/elements/files/xto6.jpg
Link: http://www.xengamers.com/sections/news/6833/
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Thanks pstwo!!!! Totaled for xbox looks sweet and its 60fps too!!! Check out the detail it looks amazing, truly stunning. Pstwo your one of the top poster here you have no reason to be banned and keep up the news as well. Thanks again for the pics.:)
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rastalant, I got one more for you to see. It\'s a 1st party game! It\'s called Mech Assualt. Here\'s the special movie. The guy who posted this said it can\'t be found anywhere and I got it!!11
Movies: Whoooo!!1 :D
56K: http://www.xbox.com/cms/asx/games/mechassault-0001-lo.asx
Cable: http://www.xbox.com/cms/asx/games/mechassault-0001-hi.asx
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Originally posted by pstwo
rastalant, I got one more for you to see. It\'s a 1st party game! It\'s called Mech Assualt. Here\'s the special movie. The guy who posted this said it can\'t be found anywhere and I got it!!11
Movies: Whoooo!!1 :D
56K: http://www.xbox.com/cms/asx/games/mechassault-0001-lo.asx
Cable: http://www.xbox.com/cms/asx/games/mechassault-0001-hi.asx
Sweet it looks great pstwo!!!!!! Thanks again for the movie, you are da man pstwo!!!!!!!! You truly are!!!!!!! I always did like mech games so i will check this out. Thanks.:)
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[:) :) :) :)
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WOW!!!1 Here\'s the screens!!
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xbox.com%2Fcms%2Fimages%2Fgames%2Fmechassault%2Fsim-mechassault-0001.jpg&hash=3753a3ef783f2d941b570ab205ddcf3a430fcb95)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xbox.com%2Fcms%2Fimages%2Fgames%2Fmechassault%2Fsim-mechassault-0003.jpg&hash=4172e93c7bb22de23e947ee3763ad30b7e24fd7e)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xbox.com%2Fcms%2Fimages%2Fgames%2Fmechassault%2Fsim-mechassault-0002.jpg&hash=4c20ed3718222ee6e7d4288771898b2dc6680aa9)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xbox.com%2Fcms%2Fimages%2Fgames%2Fmechassault%2Fsim-mechassault-0004.jpg&hash=fcfd79a9d6623d05e499c68f65df0ef4e725a768)
http://www.xbox.com/cms/images/games/mechassault/sim-mechassault-0005.jpg
http://www.xbox.com/cms/images/games/mechassault/sim-mechassault-0006.jpg
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Get a room....
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Originally posted by Samwise
Get a room....
yeah what he said !
how much do you want to bet that Pstwo will turn round in the middle of the "private"*** meeting ;)
" hey i just got these cool X box Screens want to see ? "
***(his sordid love making)
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pstwo and rastalant, there is a reason why we have private messengers, or maybe you should try instant messengers, stop this crap, you two ruin threads faster than Watchdog and Chrono on heat
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
stop this crap, you two ruin threads faster
Good news ruins threads? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by pstwo
Good news ruins threads? :rolleyes:
No, you and Rastalant posting to each other, something that can be done in private messages. Keep it there, not in the forum....:rolleyes:
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xbox.com%2Fcms%2Fimages%2Fgames%2Fmechassault%2Fsim-mechassault-0005.jpg&hash=251d50405d3b43402c3fbb1e8f33988c63d0cb4f)
:eek: :eek:
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please tell me if takes MUCH more than that to impress you
what is this 1998 again?
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww22.brinkster.com%2Fnjtyrant%2FMontezuma.gif&hash=3db299446852eeff9d8c683a03bda8da3654a5f2)
:eek: :eek:
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now thats what im talking about
4 bit color BABY!
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Bam
+10,000 points to TOBG!!!
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That Mech game looks good, the trailer is awesome.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
That Mech game looks good, the trailer is awesome.
This is against the game, not TXB.
Notice the blurry backgrounds and the textureless mech...
The bland flames, not to mention poor shading in the lower left corner.
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Jesus, it\'s impossible to say anything positive about the xbox. The game looks awesome, and no I didn\'t notice the blurry textures or the textureless mech.
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take the blinders off for a bit
:)
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Ok......The mech is very blurry....take a look at the building all the way to the left and look at it for a while.... is that smoke near the ground? I really cant tell..... the fire looks good... and the texture on the windows and road are horrible. I truley dont know how you can say this game looks great.
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Wow.....I just took a look at the movie you posted the link to.....you are easily amazed! The game looked horrible IMO.
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The game is still 6-8 months away from release. For another we are watching a 2 inch screen that is not of the best quality. And again, I do not see all these graphical "problems". I am not one to pile complements onto games, read some of my recent posts about upcoming games, but instead of suggesting I take the blinders off, perhaps you should take off you PS2 tinted glasses.
The game looks great. I can\'t help to think what some of your comments would be if this was a PS2 game. None of you would be scouring every screen shot looking for something negative to say. Take this challenge, look at a PS2 game with the same scrutiny and then get back to me.
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This is somewhat typical Watchdog: As soon as someone posts something negative about a Xbox game (eventhough in this example the game does looks crap) - it is us, once again bashing a Xbox game for no reason defending our PS2... :rolleyes:
BTW: Remember V-Rally 3? Check out the screens and the comments to them in the main forum. People here don\'t hold back for PS2 games even if they look like crap. And besides, isn\'t it fair to judge Xbox games a bit harder - afterall, the system was hyped up to be the end of all other consoles...
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Originally posted by seven
And besides, isn\'t it fair to judge Xbox games a bit harder - afterall, the system was hyped up to be the end of all other consoles...
I wouldn\'t say it\'s fair because it\'s only been around for 5 months. The Xbox is just getting its\' feet wet so to speak...
We are looking at first attempts on a new console...same goes for PS2. Before it\'s all over, I\'m sure we\'ll see those Toy Story graphics...
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Granted, the game is 6-8 months til release, but the fact that you said THAT screen was amazing befuddles me.
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The movie looks amazing, not a particular screen shot.
And Seven, every console ever released was hyped to be the greatest console ever--so what\'s your point?
What do you mean "as soon as"--every pic/movie/game gets reduced to crap if it\'s on the xbox in every thread possible.
I\'m not talking about the main forum, I\'m talking about xbox bashing--err, console debating. I never see any of the usual suspects bashing Sony, their console or any screen/game or pic. Ever.
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ps2 glasses? :rolleyes:
when did i compare it to a PS2 agme?
<----- this guy is a sega whore remember? :D
oh and check out my /me gets [insert game title here]
threads to see if i bash PS2 games
we bash M$ out obvious faults to balance out those that overlook them
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Originally posted by Watchdog
I\'m not talking about the main forum, I\'m talking about xbox bashing--err, console debating. I never see any of the usual suspects bashing Sony, their console or any screen/game or pic. Ever.
We don\'t have a person in console debating posting continuous PS2 updates either. That\'s why we have a main forum? That\'s why, if you want to get all your X-Box needs you should travel to Teamxbox, but for those who want a GREAT overall forum will remain here.
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mm I wasn\'t indicating you specifically.
Great overall coverage if your console of choice happens to be PS2.
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Watchdog, you know this is a PS2 forum, and considering that fact, i think that we are one of, if not the best forum for overall news of that type.. we have a nice variety of XBox fans, GC fans, DC fans and of course PS2 fans.. and most of us here are un-biassed enough to make good comments/criticism to all consoles..sure there are some people you might consider to be trolls for both PS2 and other consoles, but considering, you wont find a better forum of its type..
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it\'s quite amusing to see where Watchdog\'s own thread headed. After a rather interesting topic on trolls around here, it suddenly got into a console debate and now it\'s once again some (irrelevant to this topic) screens of a Xbox game we\'re talking about. It\'s funny how you critisize certain PS2 biased members around here for bashing your beloved Xbox games, but it seems to be okay when someone like pstwo posts some screens in a thread that has nothing to do with "console-debating" or the topic. Strange ain\'t it?
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You can post PS2 news all you want. I don\'t mind PStwo\'s topics becaue he never bashes any game for any system. He just posts news, and where else is he supposed to post it? He\'s not a troll, it\'s the people who bash anything xbox, no matter what it is that are.
I agree with you Bob that the majority are generally good, and I could even take the mindlessness around here if everyone was treated equally, but that\'s not the case. PS2 trolls get away with everything. Jumpman and NYPPZ got troll avartars, why not give the same treatment to the ps2 trolls? It would be a nice compromise. But that\'ll never happen.
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it\'s the people who bash anything xbox, no matter what it is that are.
not correct
if you do it on a OPPOSING console forum, then its trolling
docwiz, is a prime example of a troll
we\'re just expressing our opinions
this is a PS2 forum remember
how many of us "so called trolls" say that PS2 is better or PS2 can make games look better and run faster?
if someone posts a link to a certain xbox mech movie, im gonna tell my opinion thats its blurry as hell, and im not impressed
IF YOU CANT STOMACH NEGATIVE XBOX AND GC COMMENTS, STOP POSTING LINKS THEN
simple as that
pstwo on the other hand is just trying to broaden people\'s horizons, and i respect that, or else i wouldnt let him continue
i think he just posts too much unimportant news
we bash M$ and the xbox consistantly for two reasons
1. we\'re dissapointed
2. we enjoy inane arguments and people\'s reactions
watch, how do you think a simple discussion turns into a 9 page thread?
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_____________
not correct
if you do it on a OPPOSING console forum, then its trolling
docwiz, is a prime example of a troll
we\'re just expressing our opinions
this is a PS2 forum remember
_____________
Well there is no hard and fast definition of a troll--your is as worthwhile as mine. There are several people here that live and breathe PS2, anything xbox related is garbage. They criticize games that they\'ve never played, they post screen shots and point out jaggies. The hitch is that only the xbox recieves this scrutiny. If the PS2 was treated like this, by these same people, I would have no problem with that. This isn\'t that case and we both know that. These are not opinions based on fact and derrived from an objective mind. If someone, like NYPPZ, posts PS2 screens, bashes the PS2, points out graphical problems--he is immediately labelled a troll, and rightfully so. But a PS2 zealot can do the same so long as he posts under the PS2 flag.
You say this is a PS2 board, but this is a console debating board and should be moderated objectively. Is the PS2 position so pecarious that it needs special treatment? Police the main forum with a zero tolerance of xbox fanboys--that\'s the way it should be.
But you have to understand that to truly have a "console debate" the rules must be the same for all sides. This isn\'t the case and we both know that. As it is now it\'s open season for the xbox not console debating.
______
how many of us "so called trolls" say that PS2 is better or PS2 can make games look better and run faster?
______
Not many, but there are several. I\'m not speaking out against the majority.
______
if someone posts a link to a certain xbox mech movie, im gonna tell my opinion thats its blurry as hell, and im not impressed
______
That movie is not blurry or at least no more blurry than the J&D movie that was floating around the internet before it launched. Much/all of that blurriness is because we are looking at a 2 inch screen with poor quality. Why did everyone fall in love with the J&D trailer and not with the mech assault one? There is an answer, I just can\'t put my finger on it...
_________
IF YOU CANT STOMACH NEGATIVE XBOX AND GC COMMENTS, STOP POSTING LINKS THEN
simple as that
_________
I think most of us can stomach the negativity, it\'s the fanboyism that is the problem. I myself have been very vocally negative about many of PStwo\'s xbox news flashes, but there have been some that are noteworthy, but get lumped into the xbox suxors category because of the small mindedness of a certain vocal minority.
__________
pstwo on the other hand is just trying to broaden people\'s horizons, and i respect that, or else i wouldnt let him continue
i think he just posts too much unimportant news
__________
Agreed.
_______
we bash M$ and the xbox consistantly for two reasons
1. we\'re dissapointed
2. we enjoy inane arguments and people\'s reactions
watch, how do you think a simple discussion turns into a 9 page thread?
_______
Yes but these same people herrald the launch of the PS2 as a time of great gaming and console bliss when you and I both know that the PS2 has only recently come in to its own. As for point 2, that is a select group of senior menbers and not applicable to the majority of the posters. You also missed point 3: I love my PS2, and everything else is crap die xbox die.
I have no idea how this turned into a 9 page thread.
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Listen, the reason you get so much negativity is because you try and rub it in PS2 owners faces. We know from a technical standpoint that X-Box is better, but that is why it gets so much negativity.
Comparing the specs makes PS2 look inferior next to the montrous X-Box. But when you post screens that are truly not that much better than PS2 screens what is that telling us? We look at PS2 screens and go wow that\'s amazing, but if a screen of an X-Box game identical graphically to that screen it\'s going to get some bad feed back. Reason, because XBox can do better.
It\'s just like M$ to make a program and not fix it up, they deliver an OS like Win 98 where your crashing more than once a day. They could\'ve improved it, but did they, no. Because they didn\'t have to. Instead they come out with the next buggy OS to drive us nuts.
Back onto X-Box now, how can you call us zealots for pointing out the obvious. The launches have been a let down, the games in GENERAL have been a letdown, the system itself has been a letdown. But yet you have to come here to show us screens of your X-Box games that could be a lot better. The difference between M$ and Sony is simple. Sony is pushing the system to the limit and we respect that, even if it can\'t match up to X-Box. M$ is releasing half-ass games that could be a lot better(not all!!!!) and we\'re supposed to accept that. I refuse to.
The difference isn\'t in the consoles, it\'s in the company.
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I don\'t post screen shots. I don\'t gloat about specs. Get your members straight.
MS doesn\'t make every game that comes out for xbox. They have little control over Capcom, EA or Acclaim.
It can be your opinoin that xbox has been a letdown so long as you were let down by the PS2 launch. That\'s my point.
Look at games coming out now--they are getting better and showing improvement over PS2 (Blood Omen?). These things don\'t happen over night, devs will learn the machine as they spend more time with it. PS2 fans should know all about that, but they seem to forget.
And of course xbox is getting ports--devs are looking for a quick cash grab and porting successful games. It happened to PS2 too, but PS2 fans seem to forget.
I\'m only saying that CONSOLE DEBATING should be a two way street.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
I don\'t post screen shots. I don\'t gloat about specs. Get your members straight.
Get what striaght, your just as good as the next X-Box fanboy that comes this way. What you say and what you do are two different things.
MS doesn\'t make every game that comes out for xbox. They have little control over Capcom, EA or Acclaim.
Very true, in fact, I just rented WWF Raw, made by THQ, very nice game. But the fact remains, those other developers, including M$ have yet to show me why exactly I bought TXB.
It can be your opinoin that xbox has been a letdown so long as you were let down by the PS2 launch. That\'s my point.
Forgot about what, the 30 title launch PS2 had, let me not soon forget the names of SSX, Summoner, Kessen, Timesplitters, Unreal, Madden... Hmmm, Halo seems to be the only successful game I recall from it\'s launch.
Look at games coming out now--they are getting better and showing improvement over PS2 (Blood Omen?). These things don\'t happen over night, devs will learn the machine as they spend more time with it. PS2 fans should know all about that, but they seem to forget.
Your point is? That\'s how it was with any system. Gamecube, TXB, and PS2 all are reciving better games. Each system has it\'s hits here and there, but it\'s consistency that counts.
And of course xbox is getting ports--devs are looking for a quick cash grab and porting successful games. It happened to PS2 too, but PS2 fans seem to forget.
Well, Halo for PC, sounds yummy for those non-TXB owners, especially for the ones who want to play ONLINE!!!! We already know Sony has it\'s network planned for August, how about M$, or are they looking to put some other piece of crap effort into their system.
I\'m only saying that CONSOLE DEBATING should be a two way street. [/B]
It is, that\'s why this thread is 9 pages long.
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hmmm, "halo for PC"
sorry, every time i think of it, i get all soft and warm inside
halo at 1280x1024 32bit color 4xFSAA running at over 100 fps
/me dools [and my right thumb and optic nerves will be happy]
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Watchdog...
Hang in there, bud...
2 PS2 trolls have gotten their special pics, if memory serves me correctly...
N-Player 2 and Nigs Reborn
Whatever happened to them?
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lol, i forgot about nigs
talk about misguided youth
hmmph
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Whatever Billy, go watch wrestling.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Whatever Billy, go watch wrestling.
wrestling ?
mm is into wrestling :eek:
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heh go check out the final fantasy forum for the nigs reborn guy
he posts there sometimes
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
heh go check out the final fantasy forum for the nigs reborn guy
he posts there sometimes
yeah his got the RALF from the Simpsons animated Gif for a avatar if you want to find him.
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no way, wrestling = fake
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eh, I know it\'s fake, just like the rest of TV...
The real world is more fake than wrestling.
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I read Watchdog say there is no definition for troll......I ddnt read on. I\'ll make a definition of what I think a troll is.
A troll on these forums are fanboys that constantly post wrong information about a system/game or PC. A troll will say his system is the best while saying other systems suck. As NYYPZ practically said in the past. (notice the word *past* hes getting better.) A troll ignores, denies and lies about bad information abauot a certain system he favors. Example: X-Box sales did really bad in Euorpe. Now the Troll would now say no, then go copy sales from a website add a couple of 0\'s to the end of X-Box\'s sales then post without a link. When someone would ask for the link he would say he forgot. That\'s basically how some people get the picture of a troll.
Now maybe you want to know the definition of fanboy.
A fanboy is a person who favors one system. He only says good things about it and constantly bashes all the other systems.
This is why some people are constantly bashed and considered trolls. I would\'ve called NYYPZ a troll and fanboy in the past but he\'s gaining more respect around here.
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Bravo Cloud!!!
Sheild yourself for the sales comment though! :eek:
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Thanx Billy.
/ me runs into a closet and looks the door but then quickly relizes he was already in a clost and is now unsheilded then runs back in the closet.
But accually I was just using something like that as an example Im not saying that they did do bad they coulda done really good its just the first thing that popped into my head,
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Originally posted by cloud345
But accually I was just using something like that as an example Im not saying that they did do bad they coulda done really good its just the first thing that popped into my head,
it wasn\'t that good, that\'s putting it lightly.
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Forgot about what, the 30 title launch PS2 had, let me not soon forget the names of SSX, Summoner, Kessen, Timesplitters, Unreal, Madden... Hmmm, Halo seems to be the only successful game I recall from it\'s launch.
Okay wait, so Summoner and Kessen were successful? Let\'s imagine that for a sec, so that\'s makes them good games based on their sales alone? BTW, Unreal for PS2 sucked...DC version was much smoother IMO.
Your point is? That\'s how it was with any system. Gamecube, TXB, and PS2 all are reciving better games. Each system has it\'s hits here and there, but it\'s consistency that counts.
What\'s your point? Do I need remind you how long it was before the "hits" started rolling out for PS2 and how few and far between they were for a while??
Well, Halo for PC, sounds yummy for those non-TXB owners, especially for the ones who want to play ONLINE!!!! We already know Sony has it\'s network planned for August, how about M$, or are they looking to put some other piece of crap effort into their system.
Oh yeah, when is Halo due for release on PC? This year, maybe next? By that time Xbox owners could be playing Halo 2...you gonna wait for that one too?
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to save my eyes from 30 fps hell, and my right thumb from straining to turn on my flashlight, HELL YES
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Originally posted by mm
to save my eyes from 30 fps hell, and my right thumb from straining to turn on my flashlight, HELL YES
Halo2 on the X will blow you away!:p adios PS2 graphically...
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Could you give me a link to a preview of Halo 2?
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Originally posted by mm
no way, wrestling = fake
so are games, television shows (mostly), movies, board games, cair on old people, female orgasms etc. etc.
its just good ol\' fashioned entertainment
plus Stacy Keibler is FUKKIN HOT!! :eek:
*hopes this thread turns into a thread about wrestling just so he can shove it in the face of WatchDog :p*
:fro: toot on
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w00t! Go bob-o!
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Originally posted by BizioEE
Halo2 on the X will blow you away!:p adios PS2 graphically...
yeah this time it will push the flox box to a all new 31 FPS ;)
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yeah, and gt93128641 blows away halo 13985431
BWUHAHAHAHA xbox!
PS321882 owx0r j00!
:rolleyes:
how can you argue about minute differences in graphics when PS2\'s are selling 10 times the amount of xbox\'s?
seems thats all the zealots have to argue about anymore
that a two year newer console can do better graphical gimmicks
again, :rolleyes:
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seems thats all the zealots have to argue about anymore
that a two year newer console can do better graphical gimmicks
I\'m sorry, what exactly does PS2 offer over the DC other than flashier graphics??
how can you argue about minute differences in graphics when PS2\'s are selling 10 times the amount of xbox\'s?
None the less, it\'s a difference. Most likely a gap will begin to show between the two consoles a little later down the road...I\'m predicting Project Ego, Brute Force, Duality, Unreal Championship and the like will be major graphical "gimmicks".:p
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Originally posted by Rikku
I\'m sorry, what exactly does PS2 offer over the DC other than flashier graphics??
PS2 has nothing to offer ? :rolleyes:
oh how about
Backwards compatability
a Vast Range of both PSX and PS2 titles
the future development of online gaming
MONSTER size USe base !
out selling the compentition 10 to 1 in Japan !
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Backwards compatability
a Vast Range of both PSX and PS2 titles
These go hand in hand...I wouldn\'t call this an advantage.
the future development of online gaming
Is the Xbox lacking here?
MONSTER size USe base !
It\'s been out for over 2 years, of course it\'s going to have the bigger user base.
out selling the compentition 10 to 1 in Japan !
I fail to see why this benefits me...
Specifically talking about graphics...PS2 doesn\'t offer anymore than graphical gimmicks as mm put it...same for Xbox.
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I fail to see why this benefits me...
to simplify it
30 million PS2 world wide = greater Console position which leads to more companies that want to launch their gammes of said very large userbase = to more console being sold etc etc
Companies will want to develop for the PS2 seeing that its User base is soo large they are assured greater profits even if few people buy their game
in other words
10% of Current PS2 owners buying a game will generate much more MONEY than 10% of Current X box owners.
Du\'h their something to be said for understanding simple Economics :rolleyes:
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out selling the compentition 10 to 1 in Japan !
30 million PS2 world wide
Which one did you wanna talk about?
Last I looked, Xbox is getting roughly the same amount of support the PS2 is getting. I\'d say their future release list look on par...
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Originally posted by Rikku
Which one did you wanna talk about?
Last I looked, Xbox is getting roughly the same amount of support the PS2 is getting. I\'d say their future release list look on par...
What is there to talk about? A fact is a fact.
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The question was what does PS2 offer over DC on graphics other than the obvious enhancements (graphic gimmicks as mm put it)...
ooseven replied that it is outselling the competition...
I replied that they are roughly getting the same support from the development community thus nullifying his arguement...
read all the posts...
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Originally posted by Rikku
I\'m sorry, what exactly does PS2 offer over the DC other than flashier graphics??
Double OO didn\'t mention;
DVD playback
A company that wouldn\'t fold on their hardware at the first sign of trouble
Massive third party support
You were sorry enough to ask about PS2 over DC, no mention of xbox, which BTW can only boast about built in H/D BB on top its graphics dazzle over PS2
Originally posted by Rikku
None the less, it\'s a difference. Most likely a gap will begin to show between the two consoles a little later down the road...I\'m predicting Project Ego, Brute Force, Duality, Unreal Championship and the like will be major graphical "gimmicks".:p
Rikku, your forum style reminds me a lot of Dr Y_assman, who rarely comes around anymore after predicting that both xbox and GC would show graphics far beyond PS2 at last years E3.
Any relation?
You made your little prediction, now I\'ll make one. Whatever graphical gap the xbox can manage to widen in the future, if it ever does, will make no more difference to consumers than it has so far.
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Originally posted by Heretic
DVD playback
A company that wouldn\'t fold on their hardware at the first sign of trouble
Massive third party support
You were sorry enough to ask about PS2 over DC, no mention of xbox, which BTW can only boast about built in H/D BB on top its graphics dazzle over PS2
My bad, I was making reference on graphics only...it was a mere shot at mm\'s "gimmicks" post. I\'ll be more careful in the future.
Rikku, your forum style reminds me a lot of Dr Y_assman, who rarely comes around anymore after predicting that both xbox and GC would show graphics far beyond PS2 at last years E3.
Sorry to disappoint but I\'m not Dr Y_assman.
You made your little prediction, now I\'ll make one. Whatever graphical gap the xbox can manage to widen in the future, if it ever does, will make no more difference to consumers than it has so far.
Fair enough...though now we aren\'t talking strictly about graphics, but rather their impact on the consumer audience.
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rikku, *sigh*
I\'m sorry, what exactly does PS2 offer over the DC other than flashier graphics??
i gues you TOTALLY overlooked DVD playback
compare ffX to shenmue, need i continue on the graphics department. ok same game now? REZ.
so we have DVD support, BETTER control, its not ummm dead, EXTENSIVE 3rd party support, larger user base, and last but not least, flashier graphics
that about sums it up
my beloved DC is eclipsed by PS2 is every shape and form
the xbox and GC will get better graphics and the PS2 will get better graphics. all consoles are far from maxed out. to argue it is childish. they just show thier limitations is different ways. Ps2 - jaggies. xbox - blur
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Fair enough...though now we aren\'t talking strictly about graphics, but rather their impact on the consumer audience.
Graphics have nothing to do with anything when it comes to sales and even you should know that. Everyone should know this, but I will reiterate the point for you...
The Gameboy Advance.
It\'s outselling everything, but I\'m sure you knew that. ;)
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well, cost and portabilty affects handhelds
but for consoles, its 3rd party support that makes or breaks a console, nothing else
and thats why one console will outsell the others exponentially
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Bah... besides, how about these numbers?
Famitsu Salesfigures (4/3-10/3)
Hardware
PS2 - 76,914 / (1,018,736) - 55.6%
GBA - 30,946 / (688,148) - 22.4%
Xbox - 10,930 / (172,007) - 7.9%
Gamecube - 10,807 / (294,787) - 7.8%
Source: Fastson-\'nother thread
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Originally posted by ooseven
yeah this time it will push the flox box to a all new 31 FPS ;)
I\'m confident that Halo2 will run at 60fps...Halo was a Launch Game so we can expect strong improvements...don\'t be so pessimistic 007...great games on the X won\'t change your life:)
by "The One" Billy Gunn
Could you give me a link to a preview of Halo 2?
I was kidding :eek: ...I haven\'t played Halo2:p ...though I\'m confident Halo2 will be great...
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It does, but we\'re talking about graphics and if graphics were so important, then those little LCD handheld basketball and football games would not be made because the GBA is just so much better than those.
Additionaly, brand name also goes a very long way and Nintendo and Gameboy go hand in hand while currently, Microsoft and Monopoly also go hand in hand. It\'s just a brand that isn\'t as trusted as it used to be (if ever there was a time where it was that is).
Fact of that matter is, graphics don\'t sell consoles, games do. Having the best graphics doesn\'t help if you don\'t have the classics and the future greats to back it up. I\'m not even going to name the games because people would just go on a case by case basis and say the xbox has something similar which it doesn\'t. The point is, unless it gets games that really move the console in Europe and Japan, then you can kiss third party support goodbye.
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Originally posted by mm
rikku, *sigh*
i gues you TOTALLY overlooked DVD playback
compare ffX to shenmue, need i continue on the graphics department. ok same game now? REZ.
so we have DVD support, BETTER control, its not ummm dead, EXTENSIVE 3rd party support, larger user base, and last but not least, flashier graphics
that about sums it up
my beloved DC is eclipsed by PS2 is every shape and form
the xbox and GC will get better graphics and the PS2 will get better graphics. all consoles are far from maxed out. to argue it is childish. they just show thier limitations is different ways. Ps2 - jaggies. xbox - blur
You are all missing the point...
that a two year newer console can do better graphical gimmicks
I ask you again, strictly speaking on graphics only, what does PS2 do to be an exception to the above comment? If not, then why Xbox?
The Gameboy Advance.
Is a different market...it has no competition in that field.
Graphics have nothing to do with anything when it comes to sales and even you should know that.
Then why do we keep buying new consoles that can produce better graphics?
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Is a different market...it has no competition in that field.
That\'s argueable. It still has the same types of games we all love.
Then why do we keep buying new consoles that can produce better graphics?
Because no new GAMES are made for the older consoles. New processors spawn newer better ideas, not new graphical tricks to make something "more real." THe perfect example of what you are talking about is the movie industry. Where better computers entertain the eyes, but there\'s nothing interactive about those and it\'s good for just that. Consoles, the better the processors are, the more ideas a good developer can come up with. Tell me why Pikmin, a game that isn\'t all that graphically impressive, or Super Smash Bros, or Capcom Vs SNK 2 still sell quite well? Fan base? If graphics were all that important, then people would have bought a billion Dreamcasts at launch, but alas, that isn\'t the case.
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I\'m with this guy...
(if mm can do it, so can I)
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what sells consoles now is it??
hmm..
marketing
brand name
hype
competition
games are later on down the list...
take the DreamCast for example.. GREAT games, some of the best, now lets look at why it failed... marketing was lacking (at least in my area, there was NOTHING, and i have heard the same elsewhere, they werent as agressive as they could have/should have been), brand name (Sega.. nothing else need be said, since Genisis/MegaDrive, the words Sega and Console havent been in peoples minds in the same sentence) hype.. (Dreamcast didnt have much hype behind it, or certainly not as much as the PS2 or XBox had) and finally, competition.. (DreamCast was announced, was selling OK.. its competition was the PSX and N64.. as soon as the PS2 was announced and its HYPE started building.. DreamCast died, no matter how many good games were released to back it..)
thar she blows
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dc had almost no 3rd party support
they GAVE the DC\'s AWAY FOR FREE and still met a demise
shame tho
:(
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No amount of hype could have helped Sega overcome the rap they had after the early demise of Saturn, the crown on a series of console screw ups. All Sony had to do to insure the death of DC was announce PS2 was on its way. Sad but true
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Eh, if it were all about hype, Microsoft would have won the war before the system came out.
Like I said before, it\'s the consistency of top notch games that keeps a system a step above the others.
Graphics are nice to have, but you shouldn\'t cherish them over your actual gameplay. There is too much empasis on graphics and not enough on gameplay, can\'t they just work on them both phenomonally. Granted, I like gorgeous graphics as well as the next piece of eye candy thrown my way.
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Originally posted by Ryu
THe perfect example of what you are talking about is the movie industry. Where better computers entertain the eyes, but there\'s nothing interactive about those and it\'s good for just that.
It does boast the overall experience though.
That and it seems to be the only thing anyone is complaining about against Xbox. There\'s gotta be something to it if so many people feel the need to debate about it.
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Originally posted by Rikku
It does boast the overall experience though.
That and it seems to be the only thing anyone is complaining about against Xbox. There\'s gotta be something to it if so many people feel the need to debate about it.
Did you see FF: Spirits Within? If you did, do you clearly remember the story? Didn\'t think so. We\'re prone to eye candy, but when it came to the story nobody cared. And it dropped the overall experience tremendously.
(BTW, mm if you\'re reading this, check your PM)
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
Did you see FF: Spirits Within? If you did, do you clearly remember the story? Didn\'t think so. We\'re prone to eye candy, but when it came to the story nobody cared. And it dropped the overall experience tremendously.
(BTW, mm if you\'re reading this, check your PM)
The phantoms landed(crashed) on earth, Cid and Aki are trying to find the 8 spirits to nullify the phantoms. The general (forgot his name) trys to foil their plan in hopes of using the Zeus cannon, that and he doesn\'t believe in spirits or gaia. After a little drama, as usual good prevails, the eighth spirit finds her, gaia is restored, the day is saved... I happen to like the movie, that was a bad example.
I know what you are saying though...
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That and it seems to be the only thing anyone is complaining about against Xbox. There\'s gotta be something to it if so many people feel the need to debate about it.
Don\'t confuse us with the casual gamers. We (on this board) debate graphics. The casual gamers do not. The reason why Microsoft is not doing so well is because they are not Sony and they are not Nintendo. Sega didn\'t do well because the casual gamers remember how much they got screwed by them. It\'s that simple to the casual gamer, it really is. Sony is trusted with the Playstation, Nintendo is trusted because they have always been around. That\'s that.
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yea but once you get past the "eye candy" of Spirits Within you can see whats lacking in the game
the same can be said about a lot of games today on all systems
xbox has been focused on graphics by devs because they want to wow you with this new console and what not that doesnt mean it will always be about graphics with xbox
its up to the devs to take the Xbox further - the xbox is capable of enhancing gameplay and ai just as good as PS2 - its two years newer so it makes sense doesnt it
just wait till the devs learn that it takes more then graphics - these computer devs have a lot to learn with the xbox and console gaming - poor guys heh
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Originally posted by Rikku
The phantoms landed(crashed) on earth, Cid and Aki are trying to find the 8 spirits to nullify the phantoms. The general (forgot his name) trys to foil their plan in hopes of using the Zeus cannon, that and he doesn\'t believe in spirits or gaia. After a little drama, as usual good prevails, the eighth spirit finds her, gaia is restored, the day is saved... I happen to like the movie, that was a bad example.
I know what you are saying though...
You don\'t happen to own the movie on DVD do you?
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
You don\'t happen to own the movie on DVD do you?
Being a fan of all things Square...yes I do.
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Originally posted by Rikku
Being a fan of all things Square...yes I do.
Good thing you do, cause most other people who do not own the DVD would not be able to relay the story.
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Originally posted by Ryu
Don\'t confuse us with the casual gamers. We (on this board) debate graphics. The casual gamers do not. The reason why Microsoft is not doing so well is because they are not Sony and they are not Nintendo. Sega didn\'t do well because the casual gamers remember how much they got screwed by them. It\'s that simple to the casual gamer, it really is. Sony is trusted with the Playstation, Nintendo is trusted because they have always been around. That\'s that.
Hmmm, help me out. I don\'t see your point...
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Hmmm, help me out. I don\'t see your point...
Simple. It\'s only the forum fanboys and "hardcore" gamers who comprise about 2% of the overall industry. We are the distinct minority in the sea of sales. Not everyone thinks like we do. You\'re asking why we b*tch about graphics, it\'s because we expected more from superior hardware, but it\'s only us who has expectations. Casual gamers will play what is fun and what has brand name recognition.
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Originally posted by Ryu
Simple. It\'s only the forum fanboys and "hardcore" gamers who comprise about 2% of the overall industry. We are the distinct minority in the sea of sales. Not everyone thinks like we do.
Agreed.
You\'re asking why we b*tch about graphics, it\'s because we expected more from superior hardware, but it\'s only us who has expectations. Casual gamers will play what is fun and what has brand name recognition. [/B]
This has shifted from a very simple standpoint. I took a hit at mm\'s post, this is the result. I\'ll have to be more careful next time so as not to wander so far off topic...
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One comment can sustain a thread for weeks. You should know that by now ;)
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Good to know I\'ll have someone to keep me on my toes so to speak...
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God did none of you pay attention to the movie when you saw it?
There was this planet far away. It exploded sending the spirits of all that lived on it to earth. The girl person got infected and the docter built a cage like thing to keep the spirit inside her. She was looking for the 8 spirits to cure her and destroy all the other spirits. The general didnt think this would work so he started to make a thing called the zeus cannon. He fired the cannon but it didnt work yaddah yaddah yaddah blah blah blah she save the world movie over.
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I took a hit at mm\'s post, this is the result. I\'ll have to be more careful next time so as not to wander so far off topic...
yeah, clyde doesnt take that kind of stuff lightly
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eh, I think you people get the point
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I realize now, a lot of this thread was spam. :p
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Originally posted by mm
yeah, clyde doesnt take that kind of stuff lightly
He also secretly poops in the DVD tray of mm\'s X box and hates being called a Monkey !
....errrrmmm sorry Clyde i had to tell mm that, as he would be in for a shock the next time he plays X box game...when ever that is
:rolleyes: ;)