PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Kituka on March 28, 2002, 09:39:06 AM
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Wow, adventure/action games this generation of consoles are just phenomenal! Ico, then this....I love it!
Anyways, these are poorer-quality scans, so take that in note.
Here\'s the link:
http://pub37.ezboard.com/fgamingageforums2frm0.showMessage?topicID=18312.topic
Look at those forests...and one of the oceans...WOW!!!
PS2 and Xbox are really a gamer\'s dream come true!
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Looking sharp..
Project Ego is pretty much the only reason I ever considered getting an Xbox.
Let\'s hope it lives up to Molyneux\'s claims of "best RPG ever". That game is the "Zelda killer", if anything.
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thats all fine and dandy, but if its anything else like black and white it will be a disapointment.. also
WHEN is the game being released, it better be soon to save the xbox
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A MUCH better link. All of the screenshots are thumbnailed here, and there is a developer description of each picture.
http://planetxbox.com/projectego/
That ocean blows me away! And it\'s not even a very good scan.
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:sleepy: Huh?
I\'ve read the previews and still don\'t get why people are so excited about this game. Dig a hole, plant a tree, watch it grow. Go anywhere, do anything you can think of, see your character get old and wrinkly. Here\'s the scope fellas, I\'ve been doing that the whole time this game has been hyped.
I\'ll wait to see if there is any post hype before I begin to care. Call me an xbox basher but I just don\'t understand what all the buzz is about for this one.
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It\'s an RPG. And by the sounds of it, one of the most detailed and persistent ever. It deserves hype, but I\'m going to wait and see too.
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Wow, those screens sent me in a romantic mood:shy:
Takes me back to those day I still had a gf. :(
Anyway notice the 3rd pic. It says Forest at local detail;
they must use some system to let it decrease if distance
increases - clever. But yeah, pretty visuals don\'t just
make a great game.
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Plant a Tree, watch it grow...
Build a house, watch it become decrepid...
Start a new life, become anything you want (bum, warrior, etc)
That\'s all fine and good, but here\'s MY question...
Why do I want to play it? Yes, exploration is fun, but if there\'s no point, then why bother? Besides that, I can become a bum and not do anything, then what happens? What\'s the purpose? FFX has Sin (Syn?), FF7 had Sephiroth, Vagrant Story started as a murder mystery, Chrono Trigger... all the great RPG\'s had great stories and great settings as well as great villains and great purposes that made you want to continue with the game.
Just what point does Project Ego have? Simple questions should have simple answers, and I don\'t want to hear some stupid quote from PM saying "How great my game will be!!" whatever.
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This is one of the few Xbox exclusives that has caught my attention. If the game does well and actually delivers on the majority of what it promises, I\'ll probably be enticed into a purchase.
Though, like many others, I\'m a bit too skeptical right now to get excited over it. Far too many games have not been able to provide the type of experience that was "promised," and I can\'t help but feel that EGO will be the same.
But I hope it turns out well. It\'ll serve as a good reason to buy a new console.
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There are supposedly going to be 3 points in the game that are unavoidable. In these parts, like 10 or 20 years will pass. So you start out as a kid, then you reach one of these points in the game, then you continue playing but it will be 20 years later. I am guessing that these three parts are going to be the only real driven storyline areas, so I too am a bit sceptical. I mean, how much fun can doing random things really be if they are not important to the storyline?
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Unavoidable? Umm... I\'m guessing the points will adjust to your current life style right? I think because I don\'t see how it can be done in the vein that he has described the game, I find it hard to believe that this will be the end all be all of RPG\'s. I mean, think about it for a second...
Do anything, go anywhere, but 3 points confine the entire story? How fun is that? Do anything leading up to the points and then what? It just sounds too unbelieveable to even be concieved of as fun. Black and White was fun... Being God was rather innovative, but there was a definite story, definining parameters, a central goal... I don\'t see that with a game that labels itself as "go anywhere, do anything." At the risk of alienating the entire Shenmue crowd, I will say it sounds very similar to that respect of how Yu Suzuki boasted about the title. Go anywhere and do anything just isn\'t fun unless you have the purpose and gameplay to back it up.
Shenmue had some of that, but I must be even more skeptical about Ego and how it has been presented so far. Shenmue was a murder mystery and everything you did was to get to your father\'s killer... What point can there be in a game that boasts you can go anywhere and do anything? Going anywhere and doing anything in Shenmue can only be fun for so long... I\'m sure everyone knows what I mean by that.
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amazing
xbox is the first console that can do proper vegitation
now imagine FF with this kind of GXF!
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Proper vegitation? You mean the grass and weeds? FFX had a huge area filled with tall grass, TTT had a level with weeds, and (iirc) Jak and Daxter had grass and weeds to a lesser extent. The only difference is the developer of Ego (What is it, the Big Blue Box?) are actually focusing heavily on these details, and spending the time to "plant them" in specific areas. I will not deny that it does look nice, but it isn\'t something only the Xbox can do.
EDIT: I just rememberd a couple more. ICO had some areas where there was a lot of grass standing up. And Outcast II has "proper vegitation" by the truckload; even to the extent of Project Ego. (example1 (http://www.appeal.be/AW/images/TLP/Media/Screenshots0901/GrassAndTrees.jpg),example2 (http://www.appeal.be/AW/images/TLP/Media/Screenshots1001/CutterLookingAway.jpg))
It is going to be hard for this game to live up to the hype. I will have an open mind until I know more about it, but I am not too excited for it yet. This is probably the biggest game announced for the Xbox, kind of like MGS2 was the biggest game announced for the PS2. If it bombs, I expect the Xbox to go with it.
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I played Diablo 2 for two years. Sure it had a story, but after killing Diablo for the 100th time I didn\'t really care. Story isn\'t everything, actually, when was the last time a video game had a story that was actually compelling?
The fact of the matter is that plots always revolve around the same things, always pitted against seemingly insurmountable odds, yet theprotagonist always seems to be walking away from something that was once impressive but now is buring...
Boring.
The fact of the matter is that these people are video game designers, not story tellers and it shows. An please don\'t give me FF7 is thebest story ever told becasue I\'d advise you to read a book.
What Ego needs is compelling game play and interesting characters. Beyond that I could care less ifthe world is in peril and I\'m its last chance.
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Alwl because I mentioned another RPG, you have to nitpick that one particular game. Shenmue was a much better example and I stated so. Gameplay is a great thing to have, but when it comes to an RPG, the story is just as important. RPG... Role Playing Game... puts you in a new role with a new goal, I thought that was the whole point and I don\'t see how that can be boring.
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Because the writers are compelte hacks 99% of the time. They recycle the same material over and over.
You take any game, take the story and put it into a novel and tell me it works or has any merit what-so-ever. Why they don\'t hire actual writers is beyond me.
FF the movie? Ugh! What a piece of convoluted, cliched crap. Any Capcom survival horror. Any PC or console RPG. It\'s all the same. Pay attention to the writing in Max Payne if you want a good laugh. I played the game and enjoyed it overall, but I\'ll tell you it wasn\'t because of the story.
I don\'t expect good stories and don\'t need them. If the game is crap, Charles ****ens couldn\'t save it. But if the game is great, who cares?
I agree you need some kind of plot, but the fact of the matter is that the plots are tired and dull and clearly the work of amatures. So stick your save the princess/stop evil/save the world plot and code a good game, because there is no chance they are going to string anyone along with their writing (or me at least).
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Originally posted by IronFist
Proper vegitation? You mean the grass and weeds? FFX had a huge area filled with tall grass, TTT had a level with weeds, and (iirc) Jak and Daxter had grass and weeds to a lesser extent. The only difference is the developer of Ego (What is it, the Big Blue Box?) are actually focusing heavily on these details, and spending the time to "plant them" in specific areas. I will not deny that it does look nice, but it isn\'t something only the Xbox can do.
Isn\'t this that volumetric grass that Xbox zealots were going on about for only god knows how long? I know its not done the same way as in FFX, TTT, and Jak and Daxter. And theres much more of it...
[EDIT]- Hey... Woah! Post #500! I can get an avatar and change my nick and all that good stuff now, right? Right?!
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Project Ego.............:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
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I agree you need some kind of plot, but the fact of the matter is that the plots are tired and dull and clearly the work of amatures. So stick your save the princess/stop evil/save the world plot and code a good game, because there is no chance they are going to string anyone along with their writing (or me at least).
I don\'t know. It all depends on what game you are referring to. I will be the first to admit that all the FF stories have sucked since 7 (i\'m sure you\'d even be willing to go one further and say 6, but that\'s persona preference) and many other game stories have also just been nothing but recycled crap. Nothing is new, you\'re totaly right. There are a few gems out there though and I would venture that MGS (the first) and Soul Reaver as being one of those.
Genetics, cloning, blood lines, viruses, military experiments, hostages, a love story, and of course the whole save the world dynamic, revenge, family hatred.
Entire games have been made based on single aspects of that game alone and it\'s sad really that an ACTION game is the only type of game to really touch on those real world themes like that. Sure, the whole recycled save the world element was there, but when you reached the end of the game, that was merely one part of an entire whole. Kojima can write, he is a great writer when it comes to his characters and stories. It\'s just too bad the one genre that needs somebody like him just doesn\'t have him.
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Ok i gotta say that FF9 was awesome and if you dont agree there has to be something wrong the game had it all - well besides awesome fearful main nemesis as Kuja was gay but the gameplay and all were great - FFX was great too but too easy imo
to say those games are worth nothing is shameful - imo
anyways this game like watchdog could be fun with proper gameplay and specially if you can interact with the surroundings so much and the fact that interacting with them will change stuff and how the world runs
if you think this type of gameplay wont sale without a story then go talk to the hundreds of thousands of people playing everquest and it doesnt even have a story to compell you but it does have interactive gameplay
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i gotta disagree with you fully here WatchDog.. i play through RPG\'s foir the story first, gameplay second..
i mean to me, Ego sounds purely like its one big gimmick..
for example, in the game the person who you are linked romantically with isnt scripted, you can choose..
why the **** would i want to fall in love with some chick if she isnt one of the main characters and has no real importance?? have kids? please, BOR-ING
its basically the board game of Life, in a game.. the story is needed, but they are spending all their time hyping up the fact that you can do anything you want (which you wont be able to, it will fall well shortand become somewhat LAME in some aspects (im predicting)) but the simple matter is, the two most important factors is the storyline, and battle system.. right now, this game hasnt said JACK **** ALL about those two, and as such im not interested..
to say that you arent into games for the storylines, and that books are far superior is kinda stupid also to me.. do you not like movies also? fact is games, movies, and books all have to work their plots differently, and i think RPG\'s (particularly Squaresoft (my fav. obviously :D)) are STILL working the format well, and different enough each time to keep you interested..
whatever gets you going i guess.. but.. i dont even see where your coming from :/
p.s. i still do admire what PM is trying to do with the game, it would be wonderful if he could pull it off.... i just... dont see why it would be fun :/
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Project Ego :yawn: :yawn: :sleepy: :yawn:
it sounds like all you can do is just sit there and Watch Virtual Pain Dry.
//me need insentive (as in a Damn Good Plot) to keep me going....likethe whole Aries and Sephiroth thin in FF7 kept me playing up till the Weee hours of the morning
Like Ryu and Bobs said
its going to be ONE BIG GIMMIC From Lionhead
and quess what i an\'t going to fall for it a second time (me rubs the sore empty fealing wound left by Black and White)
therefore i now Dub
Project Ego as ONE BIG GIMMIC copyrighted ooseven© 2002
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The Graphics of this game are incredible,the best I\'ve ever seen in any videogame for me...XBox\'s starting to show its beauty...
...it\'s my most wanted game for the XBox...at last something new and innovative in a world full of boring and "old" games...hope devs will manage in a so binding work!:)
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Originally posted by Nu Gundam
Isn\'t this that volumetric grass that Xbox zealots were going on about for only god knows how long? I know its not done the same way as in FFX, TTT, and Jak and Daxter. And theres much more of it...
I updated my last post with a couple of pics from Outcast II, which have the same kind of grass as seen in these Project Ego pics. I don\'t think this is that special grass that can be done in the Xbox hardware. In fact, I think that grass effect was just some more PR hype like the "free AA" was. The only game that I know of that was suppsed to have it was Tony Hawk 2X, but I don\'t know if it ended up having it or not.
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Look at a movie like American Beauty or Citizen Kane, a book like No Great Mischief or Great Expectations. Or even take Grisham novel, they are like situations (as found in games), but again there is a complexity and expertise in the craft that is absent in VGs. It\'s like getting an author to design a VG. I wouldn\'t expect that to be good either.
These are complex characters in complex, realistic and interesting situations.
The is simply no way a hack from Konami or Square can accomplish this kind of story. There might be good writers comparitively in the gaming industry, but compared to actual writers there is no comparison.
There shouldn\'t even be a debate here.
And in project Ego if you marry a nobody character, she becomes a somebody-aparently. But like I said, I have yet to find a good story in any game, and I\'ve played every game mentioned in this thread.
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Originally posted by BizioEE
...it\'s my most wanted game for the XBox...at last something new and innovative in a world full of boring and "old" games...hope devs will manage in a so binding work!:)
Pffffttt yeah darn tooting i mean who care about the little fact known as GAMEPLAY..
i mean i just want to stare at Nice Looking Graphics for hourse on end. After all when i come home i just want to play Virtual Tree Planter ...errr sorry Project Ego for Hours
/me pretends to trade in my PS2 plue 27 games for a X box !
"did i Fool him ? ! ? ! ?" ;)
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FFS, if this was a PS2 title, all the little \'fan(ny) boys\' out there would be posting threads like \'who can get the best sun tan in the game\', \'who\'s grew the largest tree\' etc,.
Is anybody going to really play the game, and watch a bloody tree grow all day and night? Of course not, but it\'s a nice touch, as is the getting slashed in the face as a child and growing up with the scar for the rest of your \'life\'.
Maybe it won\'t live up to the hype and maybe it will, but it\'s trying to look both graphically fantastic, and coupled with hopefully innovative gameplay.
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It\'s like getting an author to design a VG. I wouldn\'t expect that to be good either. - Watchdog
Actually, quite a few authors have become very successful and talented game designers. That is, so long as the publisher allows them the freedom to create a game as detailed and complex as their imagination. Look at my sig, then go play the game series that quote came out of for a stunning example of fresh ideas, excellent storytelling, and atmosphere so thick you can cut it with a knife. Among Adventure games, Gabriel Knight is one of the best series out there.
Your whole argument seems to be that game storys suck, so we shouldn\'t even consider storyline when we talk about how good a game is. Truely great games combine both great gameplay with excellent STORY telling, as well as great graphics.
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Originally posted by Marquis De Sade
Of course not, but it\'s a nice touch
exactly :) PM is hyping the game up as literally the greatest RPG ever, based purely on \'a nice touch\'... what he has failed to mention is the two most important factors (practically the ONLY factors) in what truely makes a great RPG.. Story and Gameplay.. apart from the fact he WILL NOT be able to fully pull off this \'nice touch\' properly (making it a disapointing touch) he is just wasting ALL of his developement time practically building a game that would be a COMPLETE was of time without gameplay and story.. i dont want to play a game just because you can \'fall in love\' with a girl and have kids and a house with her.. WHO THE **** WANTS TO DO THAT?? i want to fall in love with the main heroine! shes spunky, shes fantastic.. could you imagine how much text this game would have to have?? it\'d be like 100 novels or something (im rambling now)
he says he is making the battle system simple so casual gamers after a night drinking can come back and play it.. im pretty sure, no casual gamer would find this sort of gameplay interesting, its for true role-playing fanatics..
and coupled with hopefully innovative gameplay.
one can only hope he tells us about the gameplay pretty soon..
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Bobo, there\'s this really kewl game. Its called, like, "Real Life". Its just like project Ego. Only its set in the early 21st Century. And you play a Teen-Aged Queenslander in his first year of Uni. You can earn money, go to the movies, eat at classy restaurants, meet viluptious(sp?) vixens. You can even get your degree! And just to top it right off "you can \'fall in love\' with a girl and have kids and a house with her!"
But you\'ve already closed ur mind to PE.....
It\'ll b hard convincing u to give this one a try.
But hoo choo, you\'ll come \'round, eventually.
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
one can only hope he tells us about the gameplay pretty soon..
What like he did with BLACK and White :rolleyes:
Black and White
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Peter M "oh you ill be able to interact with Ecosystems on a large or small scale... you can sit all day watching the villagears grow old And Die ...YoU can EVEN plant Trees and watch them GROW BLAH BLAH BLAH !!!!!!!!!"
Press Guy " but what about the GAMEPLAY ?"
Peter M "GAMEPLAY ????? what the HELL is that ? , you have a creature with superb AI"
Press Guy " Cool so what about Enemy AI ??"
Peter M "Enemy AI ? ..... i don\'t think this game needs it !"
RESULT : well over half the features where NEVER implimneted and the GAME as released 2 whole years over due !
Project Over inflated EGO
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Peter M "oh you ill be able to interact with Ecosystems on a large or small scale... you can sit all day watching the villagears grow old And Die ...YoU can EVEN plant Trees and watch them GROW BLAH BLAH BLAH !!!!!!!!!"
Press Guy " but what about the GAMEPLAY ?"
Peter M "GAMEPLAY ????? what the HELL is that ? , "
Press Guy " So will it be Playable for E3 2002 ??"
Peter M "Oh come one FFS .... you should know me by now... there will be only a Trailer and its still pitures with Enya playing the the background.......now be off with you i have to go and praise my OVER inflated EGO and get my Sweedish love slave to rub my Boldy HEAD !"
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SonyFan read a book and then get back to me--you are cracking me up.
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Originally posted by ooseven
Peter M "Oh come one FFS .... you should know me by now... there will be only a Trailer and its still pitures with Enya playing the the background.......now be off with you i have to go and praise my OVER inflated EGO and get my Sweedish love slave to rub my Boldy HEAD !"
That would be me :shy:
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Project Ego as ONE BIG GIMMIC copyrighted ooseven© 2002
Aww poopy! He copy righted it! :mad:
[size=20] ONE BIG GIMMIK copyrighted cloud345c 2002 [/size]
Ya look at that notice the k in gimmik and its red + bigger. So I still get my fun! :D
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I played Diablo 2 for two years. Sure it had a story, but after killing Diablo for the 100th time I didn\'t really care. Story isn\'t everything, actually, when was the last time a video game had a story that was actually compelling?
You kidding right? Hmm when was the last time......when oh when?
Grandia 2
ICO
FFX
MGS2
GTA3
Jack and Daxter
Baldours gate
Rayman 2
FF7
DMC
Dark Cloud
MGS
Grandia
Please correct me if im wrong but didnt the story of FFX and MGS2 want you to keep playing till the end? Dark Cloud\'s story was great. The way you rebuilt towns was just awsome. Lets not forget te best storyline in gaming history! Though it came out a couple of years ago ff7 was the best game I have ever played. Grandia\'s story had me playing to the end. Which I never finished because I mostly tried to avoid battles. Rayman 2 which I havent fiished yet has had a great story so far.
The real question you should be asking is when is the last time X-Box and GC has had a compelling story.
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you missed his point cloud..
:shy:
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SonyFan read a book and then get back to me--you are cracking me up. - Watchdog
Watchdog, you don\'t have a clue what you\'re talking about -- you\'re cracking me up even more trying to defend a weak, opinionated, and anal retentive point. As far as books, I suggest you pick up The Complete H.G. Well\'s short story collection. Time Machine, A slip under the Microscope, A story of days to come, and Under the Knife are all very excellent stories.
Games are a different media than books, and rely on many more factors than pure litterate skill in order to make them good. Many games (Including some written by talented authors like Jane Jenson and Raymond E. Feist) have excellent storylines which you are too "conviently" oblivious to.
Christ, by your logic, I say we take all musical scores out of every movie comming out this summer. No music at all, since it cannot possibly compair to the likes of "Real" music such as Beethoven or Chopan. Music isn\'t important to movies anyhow... See how stupid that sounds? See how stupid you sound?
Just because many games can\'t live up to some great works of literature, doesn\'t mean that storylines aren\'t important.
BTW: Play Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Father, before dismissing it. If you\'re not too blinded by your need to be "right" and if you\'re bright enough to actually make your way out of the first scene, then maybe you\'ll find a new appreceation for games which mix excellent gameplay with rich and innovative narratives.
:rolleyes:
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Music isn\'t important to movies anyhow... See how stupid that sounds? See how stupid you sound?
Beautiful quote. Couldn\'t have said it better myself.
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I have played Gabriel Knight and read Time Machine. Time Machine was good, but it\'s still mind-rot, it\'s not literature. It\'s like Steven King--pulp fiction.
And your point about music in movies is completely wrong. Have you listened to the score for LOR, American BVeauty or 2001? They are very musically sound.
I\'m just saying that the writing and the ideas are old. THey take the same themes and archetypes and recycle them endlessly. I\'ve never said to take them out all together, but I\'ve never played a game and been blown away by the story. And yet another inane point: when was the last time me or anyone bought a sound track for a video game?
There is no comparison to the real professionals of the craft, but that doesn\'t mean I would like to see them taken out altogether.
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Watchdog you were way off
you missed his point about music in movies
i know lots of people with sound tracks, or at least who download them
and blah blah blah, think what you like, but i like being blown away by videogame storylines
MGS2 literally did blow me away.. guess its a pity you missed out on it
:shy: *waits for SonyFan*
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Time Machine was good, but it\'s still mind-rot, it\'s not literature. It\'s like Steven King--pulp fiction. - Watchdog
That\'s some of the most innane drivel I\'ve heard in a long time. Time Machine is Mind Rot.. ? H.G. Wells, one of the most highly respected british authors of the 19th century, is a writer of pulp fiction? I think you should be reading that book again.
And your point about music in movies is completely wrong. Have you listened to the score for LOR, American BVeauty or 2001? They are very musically sound. - Watchdog
Well DUH! What I was saying was sarcasm, an illustration. You\'re saying that videogame storylines shouldn\'t be included because they cannot match the skill and craftmanship of some of the worlds great authors. Yet, by that logic, even the soundtracks to those movies (while musically sound) cannot compair to the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, or any of the great musical masters of history.
But why stop at movies? Lets take the music out of games too, seeing as how that can\'t compair either. Hmm, I haven\'t seen graphics on any console with the depth and talent which goes into the VanGott or Picasso\'s paitings, so lets take all artistic flair from games too. Your point is weak man, no matter how you look at it. You may prefer Arcadish games that are meant to be picked up - played - and walked away from.. but you are no-where near the majority of gamers. Most people enjoy having more meat and grissle to our games, which includes storylines, even if they can\'t compair to a 400 page novel written by the top talented novelists of all time.
I personally couldn\'t stand a videogame industry where every game turned out was as simple as pole position. I\'d like to see the industry grow, and branch out to new directions.
There is no comparison to the real professionals of the craft, but that doesn\'t mean I would like to see them taken out altogether. - Watchdog
It sounds to me like you\'re just *****ing for sake of *****ing. I think you also need to take a good look at the form of media you\'re compairing. You shouldn\'t even be compairing them in the first place. A book is written to tell a story, A movie is written to tell a story, a game is written to provide a mental and reflexation challenge. The very fact that certain videogames have stories as good as they do is a testiment to just how fast the industry is expanding considering that it started out not depending on storyline at all.
You cliche\'d point is weak too, since you insist on drawing parallels to different media types, because you could say that about most all forms of storytelling. Even as far back as Homer\'s Illiad and Oddesey people were telling epic tales of a protagonist who braves insurmountable odds for glory and the love. Look at the core of each story you read, break it down, and I think you\'ll find that storytelling has actually changed very little over the centuries. Hell, wasn\'t it Shakespear who once said "What ho, it\'s been done. There\'s nothing new under the sun."
Oh, and by the way, since you\'ve played GK before would you mind giving me an example of it\'s storyline and just how you feel that it\'s cliched?
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Originally posted by ooseven
Pffffttt yeah darn tooting i mean who care about the little fact known as GAMEPLAY..
i mean i just want to stare at Nice Looking Graphics for hourse on end. After all when i come home i just want to play Virtual Tree Planter ...errr sorry Project Ego for Hours
/me pretends to trade in my PS2 plue 27 games for a X box !
"did i Fool him ? ! ? ! ?" ;)
I think you\'re fooling yourself...try to respect the opinion of the other members mod of my penis!:)
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Originally posted by BizioEE
I think you\'re fooling yourself...try to respect the opinion of the other members mod of my penis!:)
//me Checks
No i don\'t think i am... last time i looked BLACK and WHITE as a Piece of over hyped Virtual Watching pain dry !
and by the Sounds of things So is Project over inflated EGO !
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You know, I didn’t really pay much attention to this thread or this argument, but since you are such an arrogant lad, I think I’ll chime in more seriously this time.
Hey that’s fine if you think Time Machine is one of the best novels evar! I know someone whose favourite movie is Armageddon. It’s absurd that you overlook ****ens, Thackeray, Bronte (both of them), Elliot, Meredith, Trollope—I could go on. Ever heard of them? As for him being one of the most respected authors of the 19th century—please. He was a Science Fiction writer and even speaking historically, his work isn’t in the same league as Orwell and Huxley. War of the Worlds? Island of Dr. Moreau? The Invisible Man? You think those works are more important to literature than Nineteen-Eighty-Four or Brave New World? Or even Animal Farm?
And when you actually talk about all 19th century authors, as you have so thoughtfully done, did you forget Great Expectations, David Coperfield, Vanity Fair, Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, Middlemarch, Barchester Towers? Hmm.
You could conceivably make an argument that he is a prominent and important science fiction author, but to align him with the true greats is absolutely obscene. I have a masters in English Language and Literature, and have read more in one semester than most people will in their entire lives. It’s obvious that you lack even a semblance of historical perspective—please, so you don’t embarrass yourself any further, take a survey of Brit lit and get back to me.
So instead of suggesting that I reread Time Machine, perhaps you should just read.
And I NEVER said I would like to remove storylines from video games (or music from movies). It’s people like you whose argument is so slender that it takes a complete reworking of someone else’s text so that their own feeble argument can stand up. I just said there is no comparison. When I want a good story I read a book. When I want good music, I use my stereo. When I want to play games, I play games. So no, there hasn’t been a good story in a video game, nothing original, technically sound or deep. And I’ll say this again, for the FOURTH time this thread (and you reading carefully Sonyfan?), I do not want to see the complete removal of storylines from videogames.
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I personally couldn\'t stand a videogame industry where every game turned out was as simple as pole position. I\'d like to see the industry grow, and branch out to new directions.
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Neither could I; so would I. And that’s why I said I’d like to see VG companies hire PROFESSIONAL writers. Why didn’t Rockstar get a professional comic book illustrator and writer to do Max Payne? It certainly would have been much better.
Hey, if my comment was so obvious why spark this debate? If there is no comparison between a good novelist and VG writers (which I’ve always maintained), why go through all of this just to concede my point 2 pages later? The VG industry is growing, but you can’t magically become good writers overnight. Which is why I suggested they actually hire writers or at least consult with one.
Yes you can break any story down to its essentials and say there are only 4 storylines. But that’s not being fair to the medium. With VGs, the stories are just that, stripped down and generic; however, with a talented novelist, there are narratological techniques, depth of character, perspective, allusions and so on that make it much more than the sum of its core. Truly great literature offers something to the reader, deals with high themes and gives the reader something intangible to walk away with, something to consider long after the last chapter is read. With VGs, so often is the ending so terrible and rushed, the player is left with loose ends and improbable and/or impossible outcomes that make little or no sense at all. And the endings are only marginally worse than what preceded it, unfortunately: You killed my family member so I will hunt you down; or monsters are threatening humanity I must save them, I am the last chance earth has! Or the FBI and the police are infidels, I a lowly nobody will solve the murder and apprehend the suspect/solve the crime (Gabriel Knight). I must save the .
This is not the stuff of great fiction. I’m sorry.
More on GK: It was a while ago so bear with me. Voodoo murders. You have lots of dreams, in one of them you get a key when you kill the dragon. Wolfgang, a friend, rips his own heart out so you can open some box—he even puts it in place before he dies—lol! You love this descendant of a slave that your father (?) once loved. There are at least two endings, one where both you and your love die and the other where your love commits suicide for the greater good—aww, that’s sweet. Or is it the one with the Vampires? (I hope not because I’m sure you’ll have a fit if I’m wrong.)
On second thought, you are right, it’s a wonderful story and I’m sure it’ll be anthologized for future generations to enjoy. I implore you, read a book.
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ugh, so sad :) just because you have been spoiled with \'great literature\' that you cant fall in love with the charm of a simple videogame..
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Originally posted by Watchdog
You know, I didn’t really pay much attention to this thread or this argument, but since you are such an arrogant lad, I think I’ll chime in more seriously this time.
Hey that’s fine if you think Time Machine is one of the best novels evar! I know someone whose favourite movie is Armageddon. It’s absurd that you overlook ****ens,
me thinks we should have a Book Club !
as i likes Time Machine as well as Lord of the Rings
why not start one in off topic Watchdog ?
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I never said Time Machine was a terrible book--it is mind rot, it is pulp fiction, but it was fun. I think of books like that as dessert.
LOR is a fantastic achievement.
Well\'s greatest achievment is that he showed people that everything didn\'t have to be beauty and light, that technology was important too. He was an important figure for the turn of the century because of that, but was soon overshadowed by more skilled and talented modernists. The fact is he isn\'t as highly-regarded or as respected as D1ckens, the Brontes, Thackeray et al and not as good as the moderists (Joyce, Wolfe, etc). So if you isolate a ten year period at the turn of the century he was there and prominent, but put him in a grander historical perspective and he dissappears.
Do you really think a book club would be successful?
I guess I have been spoiled. I enjoy very few movies too as a result. I wouldn\'t trade it away for a moment. I have experienced the best that has been thought and written. I pity those who believe that FF7 is the best story ever written, that VGs are a substitute for great literature--they will never take the time to sit down and actually expand their minds.
But it\'s not that I shun everything that isn\'t high art. I enjoyed ICO because it stayed within its own rules and didn\'t take itself too seriously (Square is probably one of the worst, but that will cause a debate that I have no intention of getting into that one). Similarily, I really enjoyed Jurassic Park--it was big and loud, and fun. If you stopped to think a lot of it falls apart, but it was paced just well enough to keep my disbelief in suspension. The problem that most VG writers fall into is trying to write beyond themselves. If they acknowledge their own limitations and stay within them (and not over-write) they can usually pull it off. Unfortunately, very few do.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
I pity those who believe that FF7 is the best story ever written, that VGs are a substitute for great literature--they will never take the time to sit down and actually expand their minds.
Watchdog, I love you, man. :D
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Right back at ya Gundam. :)
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Dang Watchdog! English Language, Literature, and Computer Science (If I recall correctly)?! You sure do love school. :)
Oh, and I loved the story in FF7. :p
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Do you really think a book club would be successful?
Some people here actually do like litterature. I am one of them. :)
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hey Watchdog i found the old PSx2 Central Book Club in off topic
Click here buddy (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=19221&highlight=Book+Club)
hope that helps ya :D
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Yeah, I also have a minor in Criminology. I was in school for far too long.
Thanks, I\'ll check out that thread later.
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ignorance is bliss, eh?
i guess im glad i can still be enthralled by a simple videogame plot of love, mystery, intrigue, world domination, saving the world.. etc
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Originally posted by ooseven
hey Watchdog i found the old PSx2 Central Book Club in off topic
Click here buddy (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=19221&highlight=Book+Club)
hope that helps ya :D
Oh! so THAT\'S why you bumped it. I thought you just really liked my thread. . . I\'m gonna go cry now.
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Originally posted by Troglodyte
Oh! so THAT\'S why you bumped it. I thought you just really liked my thread. . . I\'m gonna go cry now.
but i so like it ... and you ..... Sugar !