PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: GmanJoe on April 13, 2002, 10:05:02 PM
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If Xbox cost much more to manufacture than the PS2 (Sony\'s PS2 parts are nearly all in house whereas MS has to buy parts from other sources), MS\'s hope in recuping that cost is through software sales. But if the Xbox is slowing down even beyond the US borders, can the US support the Xbox?
And the Xbox sales is slowing even in the US.
Good. :)
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Why is it good?
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USA can support the XBox.. but developers wont :)
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yeah, they\'re all jumping ship
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Originally posted by mm
yeah, they\'re all jumping ship
Why who\'s gone?
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Nobody\'s jumping ship on Xbox right now, Gawd!
And yes, I think that the US alone can provide profit for MS. Think Genesis, think N64. ;)
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Originally posted by SonyFan
Why is it good?
It\'s good that MS will get hurt finally. They\'ve used a lot of unfair tactics against other software makers and it would be good to see the sofware bully get hurt.
So it\'s a GOOD THANG! :D
Originally posted by Blade
Nobody\'s jumping ship on Xbox right now, Gawd!
And yes, I think that the US alone can provide profit for MS. Think Genesis, think N64. ;)
They\'re not jumping ship.....but they are reconsidering their "exclusives". And MS needs to sell a lot more than N64 and Genesis did. And if I understand correctly, Xbox costs considerably more than Genesis and N64 did to make.
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Well sony and microsoft are loosing about the same amount of dollars on each console Gman.
And Gman how stupid of you to think a silly xbox can hurt a company that is worth 400billion. And why would you as a gamer want xbox to fail?
If gamers weren\'t so stupid and one sided then good systems like xbox would be more successful.
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QuDDus: Sony hasn\'t lost money on PS2 in a while now.
And that "Xbox being good" comment can be said about several systems.. like the GameCube or Dreamcast.
People are far too quick to write off a console because of its stereotypes. It\'s sad, really. :(
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Originally posted by QuDDus
If gamers weren\'t so stupid and one sided then good systems like xbox would be more successful.
oh yeah its my "Stupidity" thats stopping me from Waste\'n £300 on a Console that i am not even intrested in and i would probabily only buy one game i like for it !
:rolleyes:
No offence mate but ill think you will find thats its down to individual Prefrence on which console people decide to buy !
hence the reason why i choise the PS2 above all others as my Gaming choice !
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Originally posted by Blade
QuDDus: Sony hasn\'t lost money on PS2 in a while now.
And that "Xbox being good" comment can be said about several systems.. like the GameCube or Dreamcast.
People are far too quick to write off a console because of its stereotypes. It\'s sad, really. :(
Umm sony does not produce ps2 at the same price they sell it so on everyone one they lose money.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Umm sony does not produce ps2 at the same price they sell it so on everyone one they lose money.
Actully ill think you will find that Sony released a statement saying that they were at last making a proft on the PS2...........
it came out a year ago (around the same time as them passing the 20 million PS2\'s Worldwide)
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Originally posted by ooseven
oh yeah its my "Stupidity" thats stopping me from Waste\'n £300 on a Console that i am not even intrested in and i would probabily only buy one game i like for it !
:rolleyes:
No offence mate but ill think you will find thats its down to individual Prefrence on which console people decide to buy !
hence the reason why i choise the PS2 above all others as my Gaming choice !
I bet you haven\'t played 90% of the games on xbox to know if you would like them or not. But you went out and spent £300 on ps2 when it had little to none good software on it at the time.
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Originally posted by ooseven
Actully ill think you will find that Sony released a statement saying that they were at last making a proft on the PS2...........
it came out a year ago (around the same time as them passing the 20 million PS2\'s Worldwide)
Good to hear
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Now you know better, Q. Don\'t you feel less stupid now that you realize that Sony is making a profit off its console sales?
Good. :p
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I personally think Xbox is a pile of sh!t, how many of you would have bought one if there great title Halo came out on the PC first as it was originally going to. I know id rather wait for Halo to come to PC than waste £300 on a waste of space, a waste of alot of space. Xbox is just a phase, once everyone\'s completed Halo they\'ll soon realise its not good for much else. Im a fan of games not hardware, and at the moment the PS2 is producing the best software, so dont get blinded by Xbox\'s spec, coz theres no games taking advantage of it.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Now you know better, Q. Don\'t you feel less stupid now that you realize that Sony is making a profit off its console sales?
Good. :p
shaddup:) ;)
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I bet you haven\'t played 90% of the games on xbox to know if you would like them or not. But you went out and spent £300 on ps2 when it had little to none good software on it at the time.
90% are ports or there are better games of that genre on another system. PS1 had great games that is why people bought the ps2. It had a promising future with its software. X-Box so far has had 1 great game that I have heard of. That was HALO. But still people got bored of the game. I think that Malice and Halo:2 will sell some boxes but not enough to give it enogh support.
Back to the main topic. X-Box doesnt need the USA\'s support. They got Bill Gates the multi trillionare or billionare it doesnt matter.
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Nah..
:surprised
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Originally posted by cloud345
90% are ports or there are better games of that genre on another system. PS1 had great games that is why people bought the ps2. It had a promising future with its software. X-Box so far has had 1 great game that I have heard of. That was HALO. But still people got bored of the game. I think that Malice and Halo:2 will sell some boxes but not enough to give it enogh support.
Back to the main topic. X-Box doesnt need the USA\'s support. They got Bill Gates the multi trillionare or billionare it doesnt matter.
Oh please shut up. You don\'t even have the system or any of the games. I have xbox with Halo, doa3, Mad dash racing, Project gotham, NFL fever and NBA2K2. And I enjoy every single last damn game I got. I espcially enjoy Mad Dash because it\'s hella fun to play against friends. Xbox has good games on it you fail to see that your blind and bias.
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I never said they didnt have good games I just said most of the games I would want are avalible on the GC or PS2 which I have.
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Originally posted by cloud345
I never said they didnt have good games I just said most of the games I would want are avalible on the GC or PS2 which I have.
Uhh a lot xbox games are not on gcn and ps2.
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well the ones that I want are. X-Box is a great system. But it needs more big exclusive titles if it wants attention.
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Originally posted by cloud345
well the ones that I want are. X-Box is a great system. But it needs more big exclusive titles if it wants attention.
Well we already know that. The point was that it is a great system and it has a lot of new games that are good coming to it. Ppl just are so stubborn and big headed they won\'t give it a chance.
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It\'s good that MS will get hurt finally. They\'ve used a lot of unfair tactics against other software makers and it would be good to see the sofware bully get hurt. So it\'s a GOOD THANG! - GmanJoe
No, a good thing would be if people woke up and realized what kinda piece of sh*t OS\'s Microsoft bleeds the public of their money with and realizes what good, robust, and stable software really is. That\'s not going to happen.. just look at how many people still use AOL. :evil:
Trashing the Xbox to hurt MS is going to do nothing but create less diversity in the console market.. expecially with Sega no longer in the game as a hardware manufacturer. So it\'s not your taste.. so you can\'t find a single game on the Xbox that you like.. FINE.. I can\'t find a single game on the thing that\'s makes me want to part with 300 bucks for. There\'s alotta people who say the same about the PS2 tho.
Christ dood, a few jabs in the ribs over low overseas sales and less than stellar lineup are one thing, but this is downright bullsh*t IMO. I don\'t mean to be harsh or anything, and I definately ain\'t "On MS\'s side".. but I don\'t want to see the games industry dominated by ANY one company. If the NGC dosen\'t take off pretty fookin quickly, that seems to be the way things are goin.
Competition = Good, and I can\'t see where some of you don\'t see this?!?
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Oh...blame me for Xbox\'s less than stellar sales in Europe and Japan. It\'s my fault.
I wish. :p
GC and PS2 will dominate like they did during PSX and N64, while Xbox is relegated to be the Saturn. We enjoyed a lot of great games back then. I don\'t see why we won\'t get as much enjoyment in this console generation if Xbox is pushed to a distant 3rd place.
Besides, we all know that the best combo is a PS2/GC. Why spend more (Xbox) for less games when you can get the same genre on PS2?
So....it\'s not such a bad gaming world after all. As long as things go ~my~ way, you should be happy! :p
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Dood, I know you\'re just joking and having some fun an all... but you just have no idea how badly I wanna punch you in the face right now.
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Originally posted by Heat
I personally think Xbox is a pile of sh!t, how many of you would have bought one if there great title Halo came out on the PC first as it was originally going to. I know id rather wait for Halo to come to PC than waste £300 on a waste of space, a waste of alot of space. Xbox is just a phase, once everyone\'s completed Halo they\'ll soon realise its not good for much else. Im a fan of games not hardware, and at the moment the PS2 is producing the best software, so dont get blinded by Xbox\'s spec, coz theres no games taking advantage of it.
Most ignorant post of the Thread!
Congratulations!
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Originally posted by BizioEE
Most ignorant post of the Thread!
Congratulations!
Whaaaooooooo :crying:
did he beat mine :crying:
//me hands over the Most ignorant post award to Heat
:crying:
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Originally posted by SonyFan
Dood, I know you\'re just joking and having some fun an all... but you just have no idea how badly I wanna punch you in the face right now.
Harm me coz things are going my way? :laughing: What a selfish bizatch you are! :p
Here\'s my advice to you : don\'t say things to people that may lead to your demise.
You never know who you\'ll meet in real life. I could be an ex-con for all you know. Or someone who put a brick into someone\'s skull when I was a teenager. Not that these things actually happened. I don\'t admit to that. In fact, this may not even be admissable in the court of law. :)
Be nice, Sonyfan. Show me more respect.
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Originally posted by ooseven
Whaaaooooooo :crying:
did he beat mine :crying:
//me hands over the Most ignorant post award to Heat
:crying:
Sorry mate :)
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Would US support alone ever be enough for MS to profit directly from xbox? Doubtful. And that would be if US sales of xbox where good enough right now to expect building a decent user base in next few years. They aren\'t. At the rate things are going it will be closer to June of 2003 before xbox busts the 6 mil barrier :eek:
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Originally posted by BizioEE
Most ignorant post of the Thread!
Congratulations!
*edited*
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First off Gman, I only show respect when someone earns it. Now get on your knees and start respecting. :o
Second:
You never know who you\'ll meet in real life. I could be an ex-con for all you know. Or someone who put a brick into someone\'s skull when I was a teenager. Not that these things actually happened. I don\'t admit to that. In fact, this may not even be admissable in the court of law.
You know that example goes both ways. You have no idea what kinda person is sitting back behind this computer screen either. For all you know, if you was an Ex-Con, I couldda been the one who made you my lil b*tch in prison tough guy. :D :evil: :D
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hey heat, if yer gonna attempt to insult someone
please use wit and humour
vulgarity show lack of vocabulary
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Originally posted by mm
hey heat, if yer gonna attempt to insult someone
please use wit and humour
vulgarity show lack of vocabulary
Check your own vocabulary sinse when has yer been a word, also shouldn\'t it be SHOWS lack of vocabulary. And it wasn\'t that vulga, I was only messing anyway, I didn\'t know everyone was so sensitive, go read " Hello " magazine.
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This thread is hilarious...
Sonyfan -Dood, I know you\'re just joking and having some fun an all... but you just have no idea how badly I wanna punch you in the face right now.
[/B]
:laughing: !!!
I think the state of Alaska alone can back the X-box. Are we forgetting about the monopoly known as Microsoft? And Mr. Bill Gates who has enough money to give every single person in the world $5.50 . Yes... that is alot of money.
However can the X-box stand solid as a decent system? Of course. GEEZUS H. CHRIST ITS ONLY BEEN OUT FOR 5 MONTHS!
Can we pleassssssse stop jumping to conclusions here?
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Originally posted by Heat
Check your own vocabulary sinse when has yer been a word, also shouldn\'t it be SHOWS lack of vocabulary. And it wasn\'t that vulga, I was only messing anyway, I didn\'t know everyone was so sensitive, go read " Hello " magazine.
Ladies and Gentleman we shall now refer "Heat" to:
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parentspitara.com%2Fglimgs%2Fspecial.gif&hash=aa8847cb5556190fcf1f26b3b507a85d12a0bc40)
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Check your own vocabulary sinse when has yer been a word, also shouldn\'t it be SHOWS lack of vocabulary. And it wasn\'t that vulga, I was only messing anyway, I didn\'t know everyone was so sensitive, go read " Hello " magazine.
Heat......yer has been a word ever since Texas was made a state :)
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and vocabulary does not equal grammer
read again
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by SonyFan
You know that example goes both ways. You have no idea what kinda person is sitting back behind this computer screen either. For all you know, if you was an Ex-Con, I couldda been the one who made you my lil b*tch in prison tough guy. :D :evil: :D
Sure little man. Keep talking. Since I pissed you off, that made my day. Wanna punch me...all coz of a little post! :laughing: You get too easily rattled. I can imagine how really weak you are in person.
You\'re a boy. I\'m the man. Accept it.
Wanna punch me again? :laughing:
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ROLF.. Hold on.. hold on... you actually thought I was serious? Yer actually thinking I got pissed off about this? Hehehehe.... ok man. Yeah, what you said about the Xbox did irritate me a bit, but come on.. use yer head a little bit. Vapor Snake got the joke.. I\'m surprised you didn\'t.
:( :( Damn.. and I was kinda hoping we could drag this out a little longer and have some fun with it. *sigh* :( :(
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Bah! May you have diarrhea while stuck in traffic! On a bridge!
My preference for Xbox being in 3rd place and being satisfied with them not doing well is MY preference. If it bothered you that much, it\'s only gonna make me want to egg you on about MS\'s suckiness. :D Never let me see you sweat....coz I\'ll sweat ya good! :p
Ask Altered Beast. He wanted to kick me too coz I was making fun of Bill Gates.
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I would just like to say that un-informed and ignorant gamers such as Gman are the reason the industry is and has been in such a terrible slump for the past two years. No offense, but wanting a console to fail is simply ignorant, espically if you are going to call yourself a "gamer". If Sony was the only company with a console out there, you can damn well bet that there would be zero quality games. There would be no competition for them and they could flood the market with Mary Kate and Ashley games.
As for the question asked in this thread. Can the Xbox survive if only the US supports it? No! Sales in one country cannot support the Xbox, espically if that country is in the US. If the Xbox continues to fail in Japan, the big developers, such as Capcom and Konami, which are both Japanese, will re-consider their support for the system. We already see that happening with a port of SH2X: Restless Dreams. Not to mention, one country cannot support a console. Did the US sales keep the 3DO alive? No. Did it keep the Jaguar alive? NO. Too be succesful and turn a profit in the industry , MS needs to be succesful in the US and Japan, and then worry about the PAL gamers - which they seem to care less about, as demostrated by the price tag in Europe.
They\'re in a slump right now and if they don\'t pull some big surprises out come E3 and somehow work a miracle, an early death is very likely for MS\'s big black box. Here\'s hoping for magic to appear at E3, but I won\'t hold my breath...
Oh and the comment about all the Xbox games being crap and being PC ports. I would just like to point out that OddWorld was not a PC port and was an excellent game. Not to mention Sega\'s own GV, which was recently released.
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I\'m not uninformed when it comes to games. I just don\'t like Xbox. And I\'m gloating. Deal with it.
Maybe here\'s the reason why Xbox ain\'t doing too well. PS2 and Xbox are competing for the same age group. Therefore they\'re gonna end up with similar games. But with the PS2 having a larger selection of games, it only makes sense that people will buy the PS2 over the Xbox. And also, the PSX owners are glad to know that their favorite games can still be played on the PS2.
I am. I\'m glad I can play PoyPoy, Resident Evil, GT2, Time Crisis, MGS, FF9 and FFTactics on PS2.
So you see why I had little reason to get the Xbox?
And if my opinion of Xbox bothers you, then good. I don\'t think it sucks. I\'m just glad it\'s not doing well.
Did games suffer during the PSX/N64 era? Nope.
Will games suffer during the PS2/GC era? You seem to think so.
Who\'s ignorant?
Not I, says I.
Then Who?
You. :p
Have a nice day. :D
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
I\'m not uninformed when it comes to games. I just don\'t like Xbox. And I\'m gloating. Deal with it.
Maybe we should all ***** about the systems we don\'t prefer and fill our posts with meaningless crap...
:rolleyes:
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MEANINGLESS? What? :)
I backed up my statement why Xbox isn\'t doing well and why PS2/GC competetion wouldn\'t be bad news like some people think.
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What\'s the point?
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What\'s the point?
If you\'re gonna ask a quetion like that, then why bother posting here since whatever anyone posts has no impact on the world. Therefore, no point in posting.
It\'s for converstation. Sheesh.
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You are arguing personal preference and the possibility of what would\'ve/could\'ve been.
Who cares?
I\'m suprised anyone replied to your post...it will go nowhere.
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It\'s a valid question. So why\'d you reply?
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L-I-C...
You can\'t really compare 3DO/Jaguar to XBox.
What were the sales of both consoles, anyway? I\'m guessing the XBox has already outsold either one.
3DO and Jag didn\'t even succeed in the US but XBox has a chance to.
Let\'s say XBox sells 20 million in the US and say 10% of that in Japan and Europe.
My point is 3DO and Jaguar didn\'t even succeed in their home country, so never mind the foriegn market.
Anyway, isn\'t 3DO Japanese? Its from Panasonic.
:confused:
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Originally posted by Ashford
L-I-C...
You can\'t really compare 3DO/Jaguar to XBox.
What were the sales of both consoles, anyway? I\'m guessing the XBox has already outsold either one.
3DO and Jag didn\'t even succeed in the US but XBox has a chance to.
Let\'s say XBox sells 20 million in the US and say 10% of that in Japan and Europe.
My point is 3DO and Jaguar didn\'t even succeed in their home country, so never mind the foriegn market.
Anyway, isn\'t 3DO Japanese? Its from Panasonic.
:confused:
There There
//me pats Ashford on the back !
No need to feal all confused little Girl, its simple don\'t you see
X box = made by Microsoft
Jaguar = Atari
3DO = Errrmmm 3DO ?:confused: :confused: :confused:
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The reason 3DO and Jaguar failed were obvious.
3DO outsourced the actual making of the console to 3 or 4 different companies. Different accessories were incompatible with different systems. FMV games were all the rage...for two seconds.
Jaguar was made by a company with no money. Sure IBM fitted the bill on building much of the thing, but the hardware was crappy. Graphics looked like a slightly improved SNES on a GOOD day.
meanwhile, XBox, supported by the world\'s largest software company. Sporting the best features and graphics, along with many interesting titles will NOT go the way of the 3DO!
Eric Jacob
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Didn\'t 3DO hit the market at near $700?
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Originally posted by Heretic
Didn\'t 3DO hit the market at near $700?
yeah
it was over priced
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kinda like the xbox
[and kinda like the ps2] to beat you zealots to the punch
:)
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Then the price alone was enough to kill it, doesn\'t matter what other problems it had.
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Originally posted by Heretic
Then the price alone was enough to kill it, doesn\'t matter what other problems it had.
YES and well yeah they CAN, thats why i get anoyed when the PR and Spin Doctors Gloss over the poor results in Japan and Europe for the X box and say that it they can Survive in US alone.
the Truth of the matter is that yes they can Survive in the US alone but the ULTIMATE Disadvantage in that is that they are in NO possition to Challange Sony or Nintendo in their present State !
i mean how are they ever expected to catch the PS2 if they are only succesful in one Region while the PS2 is enjoying success world wide.
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what happened to "teh PS2 killah?"
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Originally posted by ooseven
YES and well yeah they CAN, thats why i get anoyed when the PR and Spin Doctors Gloss over the poor results in Japan and Europe for the X box and say that it they can Survive in US alone.
the Truth of the matter is that yes they can Survive in the US alone but the ULTIMATE Disadvantage in that is that they are in NO possition to Challange Sony or Nintendo in their present State !
i mean how are they ever expected to catch the PS2 if they are only succesful in one Region while the PS2 is enjoying success world wide.
Nintendo is not a huge problem console wise. I.E N64 only hit what around 28million(estimated last time I check it was 28million) consoles while psx went over 70million. I don\'t see nintendo doing big numbers this console generation. As more games come out on xbox bias fools may soon wise up and finally enjoy gaming all around.
I could be wrong and Nintendo could start selling like crazy, and xbox could also who knows. Just don\'t count either console out yet.
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I agree with QuDDus here.. the Xbox/GCN have a lot of potential.. and a lot of big games coming this year.
Of course, we\'re in "PSX2 Central" so their potential will be shrugged off in favor of the latest title in the Cool Boarders series.. but if you get out the bias bin for a second, you\'ll remember just how much pull some of this year\'s software will have. Nintendo knows it, Microsoft knows it.. they know they both have to have banner years for their consoles to be successful. If nothing gets delayed, success is only the tip of the iceberg!
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Originally posted by mm
what happened to "teh PS2 killah?"
From where I sit MS just wanted to try and rain on the PS2 PC killing parade. If Billy and his gang were serious about getting into console biz in a major way, they would\'ve had to crank out a machine that could smoke or match the best PC most gamers will likely have access to over the next 3 years or so and taken it even deeper in the shorts to secure the needed user base. Instead, they advertised they were gonna just do that and then threw together a box they thought could reel in the fishys.
Here\'s what I\'m seeing:
PS2 CPU+GS= 56 million transistors*
Xbox CPU+GPU= 73 million transistors*
Based on those raw numbers, isn\'t that like 1/3 more powerful? Kinda reflects what we\'re seeing now that PS2 has a few big kinks worked out. What the hell happened to Moores law? Am I way off here, or what? Anyone care to ‘splain?
Gotta run for today, try to check back in on this latter.
*I searched out the numbers a month or two ago and the above are from memory :nut: The specs were a bit outdated in a few areas so I can\'t vouch on the accuracy but I believe if anyone wants to go and check, the numbers I\'m using should be fairly close (it would be a real good idea before any punches get thrown, thanks)
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ummm, im not sure what yer trying to say
/me scratches head
wait, did blade say next installment of coolboarders?
w00tx0r!
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Originally posted by mm
ummm, im not sure what yer trying to say
/me scratches head
wait, did blade say next installment of coolboarders?
w00tx0r!
Whats coolboarders?
;)
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Originally posted by Blade
Of course, we\'re in "PSX2 Central" so their potential will be shrugged off in favor of the latest title in the Cool Boarders series..
Is this some stereotype that I just missed? Cool Boarders? WTF?
And yes we are in PSX2 Central so PS2 obviously will be getting the most support here...
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Hehe..
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Originally posted by Ginko
You are arguing personal preference and the possibility of what would\'ve/could\'ve been.
Who cares?
I\'m suprised anyone replied to your post...it will go nowhere.
Three pages, byatch! :D
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Here\'s what I\'m seeing:
PS2 CPU+GS= 56 million transistors*
Xbox CPU+GPU= 73 million transistors*
Based on those raw numbers, isn\'t that like 1/3 more powerful? Kinda reflects what we\'re seeing now that PS2 has a few big kinks worked out. What the hell happened to Moores law? Am I way off here, or what? Anyone care to ‘splain?
I think the numbers are fairly correct. Although number of transisstors can\'t really be used to compare two consoles with a radical different chip-design. Of course a system with more transistors has the potential of being more powerful - but it\'s not just a chip that makes the system - afterall you still have other things to worry about, such as bandwidth, memory, memory-handling etc.
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speaking of chips and why transistors in chip manufactoring is important:
Moore\'s Law says that the number of transistors that can be packed on a chip doubles every 18 months, but many scientists expect that within 10-20 years, silicon will reach its physical limits, halting the ability to pack more transistors on a chip. Transistors are a key building block of electronic systems -- they act as bridges that carry data from one place to another inside computer chips.
The more transistors on a chip, the faster the processing speed, indicating why this advance by IBM scientists could have a profound impact on the future of chip performance.
Source: IBM (http://www.ibm.com/news/2001/04/27.phtml)
Still, the Xbox and PS2 are so different in design that you have far more aspects to consider before you just compare the number of transistors... (see above).
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Originally posted by mm
ummm, im not sure what yer trying to say
/me scratches head
wait, did blade say next installment of coolboarders?
w00tx0r!
PS2= PC killah= MS worry
True PS2 killah= True PC killah= MS worry
xbox= poser
Bah! Who cares?
***************
Bah, coolboarders
FF XXX- Udder of Eternity. Now we\'re talkin\'...
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Originally posted by seven
I think the numbers are fairly correct. Although number of transisstors can\'t really be used to compare two consoles with a radical different chip-design. Of course a system with more transistors has the potential of being more powerful - but it\'s not just a chip that makes the system - afterall you still have other things to worry about, such as bandwidth, memory, memory-handling etc.
Yeah seven, maybe that\'s where you and I are both gullible enough :rolleyes: to believe in the possibility a comparison of the systems two or three years from now may come out to be closer than most here might imagine. Eh, a whole nother an o worms.
I\'m not positive but I think Moore\'s own definition concludes the cost of production of transistors is cut in half. And it appears more than a few transistors were sacrificed by the cost of adding HD and BB.
And the memory factors, I new I was forgetting something:D It does help to balance the lopsided picture I was seeing. Well almost, since efficiency is such a big issue when starting to dig any deeper than just those raw numbers. My problem, aside from being uneducated on the subject, is so far I can\'t reconcile the 3 to 5 x\'s more powerful claim being based on anything other than the principle of Moore\'s law, which the real world chip numbers don\'t even begin to reflect. Am I missing something here?
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Just an interesting fact I\'d like to throw in.
Microsoft does not have more money than Sony.
Sony happens to be a decent way higher on the fortune 500 than M$. Too many people believe Microsoft is an evil company that owns the world. They are a driving force in the computer industry, but as far as other things, when was the last time you brought home a Microsoft telephone? Walkman? Monitor?
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let me say i want the xbox to sucedd but its failing because of to many port overs no games with great game players and weres a good fighter or a solid rpg xbox needs to get a game out that can only be run on its system alone
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
If Xbox cost much more to manufacture than the PS2 (Sony\'s PS2 parts are nearly all in house whereas MS has to buy parts from other sources), MS\'s hope in recuping that cost is through software sales. But if the Xbox is slowing down even beyond the US borders, can the US support the Xbox?
And the Xbox sales is slowing even in the US.
Good. :)
Xbox\'s slow sales are only temporary. I bet the sales will dramatically increase during Summer and Fall 02, of course. Since the price was lowered in Europe, the system will pick up in sales.
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Originally posted by gameomania
Xbox\'s slow sales are only temporary. I bet the sales will dramatically increase during Summer and Fall 02, of course. Since the price was lowered in Europe, the system will pick up in sales.
I doubt it.... Once again PS2 has the advantage from being released earlier because its price cut will come earlier and many gamers (yes many, countless people ask when the price cut is) are ready to take advantage.
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Originally posted by Vapor Snake
I doubt it.... Once again PS2 has the advantage from being released earlier because its price cut will come earlier and many gamers (yes many, countless people ask when the price cut is) are ready to take advantage.
Also Gamecube pre orders at through the roof !
looks like its going to be a Great launch for Big N in Europe
and by the looks of things the Gamecube like the PS2 is now, is going to out sell the x box in all regions.
Big N are Gunning for Silver in this race.
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indeed, 2nd place = 1st loser
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1st Loser = First To Lose!!!
RIP, Dreamcast!!!
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
Just an interesting fact I\'d like to throw in.
Microsoft does not have more money than Sony.
Sony happens to be a decent way higher on the fortune 500 than M$. Too many people believe Microsoft is an evil company that owns the world. They are a driving force in the computer industry, but as far as other things, when was the last time you brought home a Microsoft telephone? Walkman? Monitor?
Sony is number 4, Microsoft is in the 70\'s, however that is irrelivent when talking about how much money both consoles have backing them..
both companies created separate divisions to handle their consoles (Sony has SCE).. if Playstation was to fail, i would expect Sony to write of SCE as a failure and continue with the rest of their products..
MS are more tenacious, and may provide more backing than Sony (would have).. but still, if XBox were to completely break the division ofMicrosoft dedicated to it, you wouldnt expect the rest of MS to step in..much :)
ugh..
Xbox\'s slow sales are only temporary. I bet the sales will dramatically increase during Summer and Fall 02, of course. Since the price was lowered in Europe, the system will pick up in sales.
and if not then, just wait til next years E3.. :rolleyes:
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Sony invested more money into R&D for the PS2. about a billion dollars (this includes factories, machines, employees, construction and R&D for PS2). As for MS, not as much as Sony After all, MS used current technology. They just slimmed down a PC.
But here\'s the irony : the investment that Sony put into the PS2, including the factories....has paid itself off! :D PS2 is now in the black making profits! It costs them less to make a PS2 since they make their own parts!
MS...though they spent less into Xbox R&D, is in the red. Parts are being bought from other companies and assembled in Mexico and Europe (the ones I know of).
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plus they drastically cut prices as an attempt just to get xbox\'s in people\'s homes
its a good thing sega didnt have a plethora of cash like m$ does and knew when to throw the towel in
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
They just slimmed down a PC.
oh my God :eek:
hey matey don\'t you realise the Zelots will want your blood for saying that ;)
anyway back to the topic (a first for me in Console Debating)
Doesn’t anyone think that the loss of the top brass at Microsoft HQ coupled with the poor sales in Japan, could lead to a knock on effect in both Europe and America ?
or is it just me ?
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Originally posted by Heretic
Here\'s what I\'m seeing:
PS2 CPU+GS= 56 million transistors*
Xbox CPU+GPU= 73 million transistors*
Based on those raw numbers, isn\'t that like 1/3 more powerful? Kinda reflects what we\'re seeing now that PS2 has a few big kinks worked out. What the hell happened to Moores law? Am I way off here, or what? Anyone care to ‘splain?
I can come up with a interesting explanation for these numbers. The PS2 has 4 MB, or 32 Mb, of eDRAM on the GS. Take the eDRAM off the numbers and the total transistor count comes to 24 million. Although there\'s more to this, it looks like MS\'s original claims of 3-5 times more powerful are at least partly true.
P.S. Hello everybody! I\'m new here!
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errrrr, welcome?
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Xbox in japan hasn\'t been very well received because there are not enough japanese games to keep it up with it\'s competitors. Japan is probably the single most importent place to get a product into and do well in. MS had better sort something out quick or they\'ll miss their ride.
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Although there\'s more to this, it looks like MS\'s original claims of 3-5 times more powerful are at least partly true.
I would love to see how this claim can even be partly true. I took some time to figure out how Microsoft got to those numbers, but my best guess is that it\'s just pure marketing tactics. Also harsh underestimation of the EE by MS.
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Originally posted by seven
I would love to see how this claim can even be partly true. I took some time to figure out how Microsoft got to those numbers, but my best guess is that it\'s just pure marketing tactics. Also harsh underestimation of the EE by MS.
Eh... None of us (I assume) are programmers that specialize in graphics, so I guess there\'s no argument going either way.
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I can come up with a interesting explanation for these numbers. The PS2 has 4 MB, or 32 Mb, of eDRAM on the GS. Take the eDRAM off the numbers and the total transistor count comes to 24 million. Although there\'s more to this, it looks like MS\'s original claims of 3-5 times more powerful are at least partly true.
Ah, now I got it what you were trying to say: Graphics Synthesizer without the 4 MB VRAM has about 24 million transistors (instead of 43 million), which equals about 3 times less than the 73 million that the Xbox holds. So in that aspect, it would be 3 (or 5) times more powerful. Might add up if you look at it that way, but I think it\'s not quite correct since both processors and chip boards are so radical different. Also, the EE with "only" 10.5 million transistors trashes any PIII chip outthere in 3d processing. I don\'t think the amount of transistors is a valid arguement in this case. There are way more things to consider first.
BTW: Welcome to the forums. ;)
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Originally posted by seven
Ah, now I got it what you were trying to say: Graphics Synthesizer without the 4 MB VRAM has about 24 million transistors (instead of 43 million), which equals about 3 times less than the 73 million that the Xbox holds. So in that aspect, it would be 3 (or 5) times more powerful. Might add up if you look at it that way, but I think it\'s not quite correct since both processors and chip boards are so radical different.
Yeah, that\'s basically what I said.
Also, the EE with "only" 10.5 million transistors trashes any PIII chip outthere in 3d processing. I don\'t think the amount of transistors is a valid arguement in this case. There are way more things to consider first.
Of course, one expects the X-GPU "will trash any EE chip out there in 3d processing.":p
BTW: Welcome to the forums. ;)
[/b]
Er...Thanx.
PS: 0 posts? This warrants some explanation.
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Let\'s face it, Gates has so much money, he can afford to support the X-Box on his own. I tell ya, someday MS will BE a country. Didn\'t anyone read my predictions in the "If you\'re gonna cheat on your wife..." thread? Crazy stuff, I tell ya.
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Lets clear a few things up:
Global 500 Rank/ Company/ Revenues ($ millions)
30 Sony 66,158.4
201 Microsoft 22,956.0
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wow.. where the hell did i get my figures from?? :confused:
thanks for clearing it up brother Fast