PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: BizioEE on April 18, 2002, 01:57:18 PM
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""Virtua Fighter 4 is not the visual masterpiece we were hoping for. While not poor by any stretch of the imagination, there is something about the look that just does not sit right. I thought it was just myself, but it was a general consensus among us that things did not gel together as they could have. The jaggies that plagued first generation PS2 titles have decided to rear their ugly head once again. It would appear that Sega-AM2 did not spend enough time with the hardware to find their way around the jaggy anti-aliasing issue. The game also flickers and shimmers which makes it look worse than it really is. When you take a very close look you can see that an incredible amount of work went into the character models but this is not conveyed due to the issues mentioned. The level environments borrow heavily from the Dead Or Alive series and lack any true interactive element.""
""Ultimately, Virtua Fighter 4 is not the groundbreaking title that many media outlets would have you believe. If you are a fan of the series then you will be right at home. However, if you like your fighting games to play more like Tekken of Soul Calibur then you should rent VF4 first to see if it suits your desires. Regardless, Virtua Fighter 4 still showcases the technical finesse of the series, albeit watered down somewhat.""
""In terms of extras, VF4 is a mixed bag. The one-player arcade mode (13 stages, and one-off encounter with Dural) is incredibly boring due to the fact that the stages play in order and result in the same ending over and over. This may work in arcades but for home conversions you have to offer a lot more incentive whether it be hidden arenas or different character endings.""
""For depth and originality gamers have always turned to the Virtua Fighter series. Therefore it is somewhat disappointing that Virtua Fighter 4 is missing many of the unique features that used to make it stand out from other brawlers.""
http://www.psx2central.com/reviews/psx2vf4.htm
Sorry people,but I have to say that...I want a new and enhanced XBox or GC version of this game with better graphics and more extras!
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I agree with most of it except for this part:
The level environments borrow heavily from the Dead Or Alive series...
Umm, wah? Whoever wrote this, do you mind clarifying a little bit?
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Originally posted by BizioEE
Sorry people,but I have to say that...I want a new and enhanced XBox or GC version of this game with better graphics and more extras!
Bizzio, in this instance I can\'t say that I blame you one bit.
Anyone else besides me think this is just Sega\'s way of taking a swipe at Sony for dealing the death blow to their console biz? Along with making a few quick bucks at the same time, naturally.
Eh, have to rent it and see if I really care one way or the other. Usually get my fill of a fighter in a session or two.
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Sega taking a swipe at Sony?
Not really.. I\'d take Virtua Fighter 4 over 18 Wheeler, Sonic Adventure 2, or Home Run King any day.
AM2 squeezed the PS2 hardware and got everything they could out of it..
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Originally posted by Blade
AM2 squeezed the PS2 hardware and got everything they could out of it..
I\'ll have to see Tekken4 and SC2 then talk about how hard AM2 tried. From the way it\'s described so far it sounds like it looks worse than US PS2 launch fighters.
BTW, we are talking only about looks now. I understand fans of the genre will pick it up and have a good time regardless.
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Originally posted by Blade
AM2 squeezed the PS2 hardware and got everything they could out of it..
what in 7 months i dont think so
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Why is everyone whining so damn much? This is the greatest fighting game ever. Just go play it. You want graphics buy a GeForce4 and a flatscreen.
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yeah, since when did you guys become graphic tarts?
its a button masher, anyhoo
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This is so funny...
A game turns out to be less than expected (graphics) on PS2 and the developer gets blamed.
If the same thing happened on Xbox, mm would step in and say something like "and this is the PS2 killah". Refering to the Xbox itself instead of the developers.
classic...
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Originally posted by Rikku
This is so funny...
A game turns out to be less than expected (graphics) on PS2 and the developer gets blamed.
If the same thing happened on Xbox, mm would step in and say something like "and this is the PS2 killah". Refering to the Xbox itself instead of the developers.
classic...
:crap:
no we blame the developers...beleve me WE DO !
just look back over the history of this site and you will see me Bashing Team Ninja as a bunch of over rated Keyboard monkeys !
in fact i have Vodoo Dolls made up of the Team Ninja Staff for producing both DOA2 on the PS2 and DOA3 on the X box !
DOA = NEWBIE button mashing Piece of :crap: !
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Its a frickin port! What do you expect?
Games built from the ground up = BETTER (technically)
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[graphics whore mode on] Both games have real-time shadows (unlike VF4), SC2 has self shadowing (which was "impossible" on PS2 according to some Xzelots), Tekken 4 has VGA support (525p) (this was impossible aswell..) Tekken 4 has AA (Im not sure if its FSAA) SC2 will prolly have AA aswell.
Tekken 4 on PS2 is "better" than the arcade version..
Nuff said really.
Namco knows their ****.. This was AM2\'s first port.
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Originally posted by Heretic
I\'ll have to see Tekken4 and SC2 then talk about how hard AM2 tried. From the way it\'s described so far it sounds like it looks worse than US PS2 launch fighters.
BTW, we are talking only about looks now. I understand fans of the genre will pick it up and have a good time regardless.
I don\'t know how much power AM2 squeezed from PS2...
...sure they\'re very talented and know how to program a multi processor machine...but they didn\'t spend all the time that Namco and other developers spent on PS2,for example...
...Sega\'s way of taking a swipe at Sony ? ...AM2 squeezed the PS2 hardware and got everything they could out of it...as Blade has said? or AM2 didn\'t spent enough time on this complex machine? I think the last one is more likely...let\'s wait for Tekken4...
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SC2 has self shadowing (which was "impossible" on PS2 according to some Xzelots)
PS2 can do almost everything via software...the only problem is that you waste a lot of power and you can\'t get the same result of both XBox and GC !
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Originally posted by BizioEE
PS2 can do almost everything via software...the only problem is that you waste a lot of power and you can\'t get the same result of both XBox and GC !
Yes it does it in software (tough its available in libraries now so its more like copy and paste the code - i reckon)
It takes more time to do it on PS2 than GC and Xbox.
But remember PS2s CPU was built to do alot things in software it CAN take the hit (the EE is the best CPU this generation).
And you can get the same result on PS2 as on Xbox and GC.
Software= optimise-able
Hardware= unchangeable
Thing is.. You can probably get a better result with PS2 if your willing to put time into it.
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Originally posted by fastson
Yes it does it in software (tough its available in libraries now so its more like copy and paste the code - i reckon)
It takes more time to do it on PS2 than GC and Xbox.
But remember PS2s CPU was built to do alot things in software it CAN take the hit (the EE is the best CPU this generation).
Yes,the EE is the best CPU but it has to do everything,and though you have,theoretically,more freadom to get some "effects",you have to admit that "effects" via software are much more slower than "effects" via hardware!
And you can get the same result on PS2 as on Xbox and GC.
Software= optimise-able
Hardware= unchangeable
Thing is.. You can probably get a better result with PS2 if your willing to put time into it.
I\'m really sceptical on this...I\'d like to see a game which shows me that...and not waiting other 2 years for other hypothetical untapped power...
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Greatest fighter ever or button masher? Both?
Yeah, since fighters aren\'t my favorite, I am talking like a street walker who is there for the scenery and was definitely expecting a purdy face. I\'ll try it out regardless and see for myself.
And Rikku, I know it must be hard for a MS lackey to understand but I\'m used to seeing PS2 games in action that look better than the pre-release screen captures.
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Originally posted by BizioEE
I\'m really sceptical on this...I\'d like to see a game which shows me that...and not waiting other 2 years for other hypothetical untapped power...
Why? Its pretty logical.
Software is optimise-able, Hardware is unchangeable.
When time goes by there might be a new effects that can be done in software on PS2 but is impossible to do on Xbox/GC because they have their effects coded into the hardware.
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Originally posted by fastson
Why? Its pretty logical.
Software is optimise-able, Hardware is unchangeable.
When time goes by there might be a new effects that can be done in software on PS2 but is impossible to do on Xbox/GC because they have their effects coded into the hardware.
Software is optimise-able but you\'re limited to the overall power you have...the pixel-shaders of the NV2a are program-able and run a lot faster than the Vus of PS2...the EE is not the magic you think.
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Originally posted by BizioEE
Software is optimise-able but you\'re limited to the overall power you have.
Uh.. Yes ofcourse.
Not like PS2 is to weak to handle those things.
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Originally posted by fastson
Uh.. Yes ofcourse.
Not like PS2 is to weak to handle those things.
only time will tell...when GCN and XBox will show their real beauty...
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Originally posted by BizioEE
only time will tell...when GCN and XBox will show their real beauty...
I sense a certain hostility towards PS2 whenever you talk about it.. Why this?
If you dont like it? Why not sell it?
You Bizio.. The unbiased man.. :rolleyes:
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I am kind a dissapointed that VF4 doesn\'t live up to the hype in terms of graphics, but then, that was expected as it is
1. a port and
2. AM2s first attempt on a new console.
Newer libraries, talented developers - what ever. It still doesn\'t change the fact that the PS2 forces developers to rethink their ways and makes it even for the talented developers a challenge. Just look at what Namco did in just about 4 months with Tekken Tag (Japan) and how they enhanced it in another few months to what it looked like in the US and PAL version.
As to Fast\'s reasoning: I agree with him completely. People fail to realise what the PS2 (and the EE in mind) were designed for. As BizioEE already pointed out numerous times before; the EE does support less effects than a standard GeForce 1 card - but that doesn\'t limit its potential at all, since the PS2 was made to do those effects that other consoles already have implemented in hardware through software. I think Fast got his point across very clear - it\'s just too bad that it\'s always the same people who have problems accepting the obvious.
Software is optimise-able but you\'re limited to the overall power you have...the pixel-shaders of the NV2a are program-able and run a lot faster than the Vus of PS2...the EE is not the magic you think.
I would be very interested to hear your explenation to why the NV2 pixelshaders run faster than the VUs of the PS2 - especially since both work so different and I wouldn\'t know how to even compare them. But who knows, I\'m sure Bizio has an excellent knowledge in this field and I have no doubts in my mind that he can\'t wait to back his statement up so that we can all follow his logic and see the light. ;)
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Where are you guys getting this port stuff from?
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Originally posted by The Stapler
Where are you guys getting this port stuff from?
Duh.. Its a well known fact that Virtua Fighter 4 was posted from the Naomi 2 arcade board.
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I would be very interested to hear your explenation to why the NV2 pixelshaders run faster than the VUs of the PS2 - especially since both work so different and I wouldn\'t know how to even compare them. But who knows, I\'m sure Bizio has an excellent knowledge in this field and I have no doubts in my mind that he can\'t wait to back his statement up so that we can all follow his logic and see the light.
funny...when you are good only to paste and copy BS:)
well...me,you and most of people here are not talented dev...but me and most of members,at least,don\'t paste and copy BS things taken from arstecnica...
Dev on PS2\'re trying with the vector units to perform pixel shader effects (reflective/refractive bump-mapping, depth sprites,etc) but it takes a huge hit in performance! PS2 has a lot of games,is a great machine for most of gamers...so why you care so much about the graphics capabilities of PS2? even AM2 now understand how much PS2 is inadequate...
...and even if they had spent more time...I don\'t think VF4\'d have looked much better!
However,back to the topic...wasn\'t you one of the few who said VF4 looks better than DOA3 ?
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Originally posted by BizioEE
even AM2 now understand how much PS2 is inadequate...
...and even if they had spent more time...I don\'t think VF4\'d have looked much better!
:rolleyes:
Did you see those Tekken 4, SC2 screens I posted?
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Originally posted by fastson
:rolleyes:
Did you see those Tekken 4, SC2 screens I posted?
Yes...SC looks really good...but I hate seven!:)
he said:"IMHO...VF4 looks better than DOA3"...and now"I am kind a dissapointed that VF4 doesn\'t live up to the hype in terms of graphics"...
I still remember when I talked about the fact that PS2 had to be 15x the DC...and he said to me..."if you can\'t back up to this crap shut up..."....then Dr Yassam showed him the links and he replied:"well...yes...PS2 could be 15x the DC..." and then he started his raving...
he\'s a joke...that\'s why I hate him:)
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funny...when you are good only to paste and copy BS
well...me,you and most of people here are not talented dev...but me and most of members,at least,don\'t paste and copy BS things taken from arstecnica...
I do hope you can back this up...
Dev on PS2\'re trying with the vector units to perform pixel shader effects (reflective/refractive bump-mapping, depth sprites,etc) but it takes a huge hit in performance! PS2 has a lot of games,is a great machine for most of gamers...so why you care so much about the graphics capabilities of PS2? even AM2 now understand how much PS2 is inadequate...
...and even if they had spent more time...I don\'t think VF4\'d have looked much better!
Just as I thought - no solid prove or backup what so ever that would prove your above statement to be correct.
You make it sound as if everything that is done hardware == no hit in performance. It\'s strange, am I the only one that thought Xbox could do Anti-Aliasing in hardware? Must be my imagination, because from what I\'ve seen, none of the games have proper AA there?! Maybe you can explain... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by BizioEE
However,back to the topic...wasn\'t you one of the few who said VF4 looks better than DOA3 ?
The artstyle in VF4 practicly rapes DoA3. And the characters in VF4 look better than those in DoA3, IMO.
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You make it sound as if everything that is done hardware == no hit in performance.
nah...nothing is free in hardware...but everything via hardware is faster...and everything via software takes a major hit in performance...
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which explains why none of the current games use Anti Aliasing. Very powerful hardware, I agree.
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Originally posted by fastson
The artstyle in VF4 practicly rapes DoA3. And the characters in VF4 look better than those in DoA3, IMO.
don\'t play with me:)...DOA3 looks FAR better overall !
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Originally posted by seven
which explains why none of the current games use Anti Aliasing. Very powerful hardware, I agree.
...but jaggies on PS2 games are a lot more evident...I think you could cut a tree with those of VF4:D...and it\'s a game released in the third year of PS2 life by one of the most talented dev of the planet!
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Originally posted by BizioEE
don\'t play with me:)...DOA3 looks FAR better overall !
Did I say overall? Please quote me..
I mean the characters SPECIFIC..
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Quotes from BizioEE:
Yes,the EE is the best CPU but it has to do everything,and though you have,theoretically,more freadom to get some "effects",you have to admit that "effects" via software are much more slower than "effects" via hardware!
Software is optimise-able but you\'re limited to the overall power you have...the pixel-shaders of the NV2a are program-able and run a lot faster than the Vus of PS2...the EE is not the magic you think.
Dev on PS2\'re trying with the vector units to perform pixel shader effects (reflective/refractive bump-mapping, depth sprites,etc) but it takes a huge hit in performance! PS2 has a lot of games,is a great machine for most of gamers...so why you care so much about the graphics capabilities of PS2? even AM2 now understand how much PS2 is inadequate...
Gathering from your last few replies, you are trying to prove how "inadequate" PS2 is compared to Xbox hardware YET Xbox games show nothing more than the same problems PS2 delt with/is dealing with: Anti Aliasing and extensive use of blur. And who here is trying to debate that hardware-effects are sooo much better than the PS2 software ones? Yeah absolutely, I see it in current Xbox games how good it is.
And btw: PS2 games with AA: Baulders Gate, Tekken Tag, Tekken4, GT3, Jak & Daxter while heaps of other games use some type of AA aswell.
Funny: first you proclaim Xbox of being so much more powerful thanks to hardware effects, but then when I say how many games on Xbox are missing AA - the best you can do is put it down to PS2\'s level and say "but jaggies on PS2 games are a lot more evident". Typical.
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well...if you think that AM2 have produced a game far inferior graphically to a launch game developed by Tecmo on unfinished hardware...
...I hope AM2 will develop the sequel on XBox so that you\'ll understand a lot of things;)
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Originally posted by BizioEE
well...if you think that AM2 have produced a game far inferior graphically to a launch game developed by Tecmo on unfinished hardware...
...I hope AM2 will develop the sequel on XBox so that you\'ll understand a lot of things;)
They ported a game from a system with a totally different hardware.
I want to see AM2 make a game from the ground up on the PS2.
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Originally posted by fastson
They ported a game from a system with a totally different hardware.
I want to see AM2 make a game from the ground up on the PS2.
me too! ...but the sequel of VF4 from the ground up on the XBox!
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Originally posted by BizioEE
me too! ...but the sequel of VF4 from the ground up on the XBox!
Why not for PS2? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by fastson
Why not for PS2? :rolleyes:
because I think PS2 can\'t handle a sequel of VF4 without a drastic cut in the graphics department...but I\'m almost sure they\'ll do it...to make a lot of money...
...let\'s wait and see...
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I doubt you\'ll see a sequel this generation of consoles...there is usually a 2-3 year gap in between sequels for the VF series...
Being that each game improved upon it predecessor by a drastic measure in both visuals and play, I doubt any of the machines availabe could handel it. Although I would love to see Sega prove me wrong...
The most we could hope for is an upgraded version sometime in the near future.
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yeah, 4 generations of virtua figthers and they maintain the "button masher" gameplay. remarkable
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you know what else is remarkable mm :) sit down and actually learn the moves of the game (or any fighting game for that matter) and you will easily wipe the floor with a person who is button mashing
fighting games are made for multiplayer, not just playing against an AI opponent.. just because you might be able to button mash and finish the game, doesnt mean you will beat a human opponant
BizioEE, your being a complete ***** :) personally i think Virtua Fighter 4 looks great, and can even compare to DoA3 in many aspects, im also waiting to see how great Tekken 4 and Soul Calibur 2 look running on a TV
also, you are talking out of you ass on many things as far as software performance is concerned.. EE is very powerful, but these effects done in software take a major hit? please.. we just keep seeing game after game implementing these new features that were previously thought impossible
"AA cant be done on PS2"
*Volition create the first AA code for PS2*
"Lorne Lanning says AA cant be done on PS2 without a major hit"
*AA code is released that takes virtually no hit and many games start implementing it*
thats just an example, and there are many others that were previously thought impossible, then thought to take a major hit, then come out and soon many games are doing it (look at what Fasty listed for Soul Calibur)
and also listen to seven.. if the hits on PS2 are so major, and the built in hardware support is so minor.. how come PS2 is doing thesethings and XBox isnt? because the launch games were done on incomplete hardware? :rolleyes:
PS2 isnt as inadequate as you think
The artstyle in VF4 practicly rapes DoA3.
Greatest. Quote. Ever.
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
BizioEE, your being a complete ***** :) personally i think Virtua Fighter 4 looks great, and can even compare to DoA3 in many aspects, im also waiting to see how great Tekken 4 and Soul Calibur 2 look running on a TV
me too waiting for Tekken4...but I\'ll get SC2 for the XBox...
...you seem to not understand what I mean...you continue to get me wrong:)...Namco started to develop for PS2 in Q1 1999,I think...and only now they\'re achieving good result,they\'re finding new tricks,etc...do you think it\'s exclusive to PS2? even the best 3rd gen DC games make look the DC launch games and first games really sad...and you continue,and many others,to compare 2nd and 3rd gen of PS2 games to XBox and GCN launch games...I think it\'s really funny...above all because they can\'t even beat,overall,games like Halo and RL2!
also, you are talking out of you ass on many things as far as software performance is concerned.. EE is very powerful, but these effects done in software take a major hit? please.. we just keep seeing game after game implementing these new features that were previously thought impossible
it\'s how development works...and it\'s not exclusive to PS2...
...right now the best looking GCN and XBox games look sharper,cleaner than PS2 games...and how the hell do you think GCN and XBox games will look like in the next 2,3 years? like actual PS2 games? or even like future PS2 games? you guys are funny:)...
"AA cant be done on PS2"
*Volition create the first AA code for PS2*
"Lorne Lanning says AA cant be done on PS2 without a major hit"
*AA code is released that takes virtually no hit and many games start implementing it*
Why VF4 is full of horrible jaggies is AA can be done virtually with no hit in performance? if it\'s so easy to implement? AM2 are very talented,am I wrong?
and also listen to seven.. if the hits on PS2 are so major, and the built in hardware support is so minor.. how come PS2 is doing thesethings and XBox isnt? because the launch games were done on incomplete hardware? :rolleyes:
PS2 isnt as inadequate as you think
Why PS2 developers needed almost 2 years to make,overall,better looking games than DC ? because PS2 and DC are almost on par,overall? because of the incredible stepping magic learning curve of PS2 ?:rolleyes: nope!...each console improves year by year...DC,PS2,GCN and XBox...the only difference is that you\'ll never see the PS2 fully pushed!
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Dr Yassam,what do you think about my last post? I\'d like to hear a honest opinion about this argument!:)
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".. if the hits on PS2 are so major, and the built in hardware support is so minor.. how come PS2 is doing thesethings and XBox isnt? because the launch games were done on incomplete hardware?"
I\'m only passing through but...
... THPS3 on the XBox uses FSAA I believe, and it looks great! :p
However, the AA arguement can also be directed towards the GC, since it also has hardware support for AA which is not evident in it\'s current games. So the real question is WHY?
Well, whilst it\'s true that the *performance* hit on these consoles is minimal, FSAA does have a hit on *bandwidth*. Therefore it\'s not a feature which developers can just slap onto a game as an afterthought. Bandwidth has to be managed VERY carefully on ALL consoles, therefore any feature which has an impact on bandwidth MUST be catered for EARLY in a game\'s development, and AA is such a feature! Hence the lack of AA seen in most current XBox and GC games.
However, as developers become more familiar with the XBox and GC hardware and as more game engines are developed from the ground up on final hardware, expect to see FSAA becoming more common on both consoles in future (but even without it, the graphics look sharper and clearer than the PS2).
In fact, during E3, I wouldn\'t be surprised if many new XBox and GC games demonstrate FSAA as a feature. We\'ll see! :)
EDIT: Great posts BizioEE (I was typing this as you posted), all I can say is, I can now leave knowing this thread is in good hands! :D
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Nice to hear from you:) ...:D
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However, the AA arguement can also be directed towards the GC, since it also has hardware support for AA which is not evident in it\'s current games. So the real question is WHY?
Well, whilst it\'s true that the *performance* hit on these consoles is minimal, FSAA does have a hit on *bandwidth*. Therefore it\'s not a feature which developers can just slap onto a game as an afterthought. Bandwidth has to be managed VERY carefully on ALL consoles, therefore any feature which has an impact on bandwidth MUST be catered for EARLY in a game\'s development, and AA is such a feature! Hence the lack of AA seen in most current XBox and GC games.
THPS3 might be one of them (haven\'t seen that one out yet), but I believe the graphics are subpar compared to current other Xbox games.
This is very true - although AA is very bandwidth intense on all 3 consoles. And I could go back to a lot of articles that Watchdog loved to bring up where they quote that the bandwidth should be no problem at all while implementing AA. I agree that Xbox games will get past that too with the necessary programming tricks, but one must be aware that the bandwidth of either consoles will never grow larger than they already are. It will be interesting to see if the AA implementation will come at a cost.
Now to Bizio:
...you seem to not understand what I mean...you continue to get me wrong...Namco started to develop for PS2 in Q1 1999,I think...and only now they\'re achieving good result,they\'re finding new tricks,etc...do you think it\'s exclusive to PS2? even the best 3rd gen DC games make look the DC launch games and first games really sad...and you continue,and many others,to compare 2nd and 3rd gen of PS2 games to XBox and GCN launch games...I think it\'s really funny...above all because they can\'t even beat,overall,games like Halo and RL2!
Honestly, I was pretty happy with Tekken TAG with its great graphics. Okay, prerendered backgrounds compared to SC, but hey, it still looked great and put a lot of DC games to shame in the graphics department. I\'m not sure, but I\'m pretty sure Tekken TAG uses bump-mapping. The first games that really made the jump above DC\'s graphics are without doubt GT3, Baulders Gate, Final Fantasy and the bouncer.
it\'s how development works...and it\'s not exclusive to PS2...
...right now the best looking GCN and XBox games look sharper,cleaner than PS2 games...and how the hell do you think GCN and XBox games will look like in the next 2,3 years? like actual PS2 games? or even like future PS2 games? you guys are funny...
What is not exclusive to PS2? Freedom of development in that extend is simply not around on Xbox or GCN.
Why VF4 is full of horrible jaggies is AA can be done virtually with no hit in performance? if it\'s so easy to implement? AM2 are very talented,am I wrong?
Because AA isn\'t just there two switch on and off. You have to implement it and when you do, it takes skill and you need to know the hardware. Sony is doing their best to get developers implement it as easy as possible through newer documentations and libraries.
Why PS2 developers needed almost 2 years to make,overall,better looking games than DC ? because PS2 and DC are almost on par,overall? because of the incredible stepping magic learning curve of PS2 ? nope!...each console improves year by year...DC,PS2,GCN and XBox...the only difference is that you\'ll never see the PS2 fully pushed!
Please... 2 years? I already pointed out a few games that marked the PS2\'s being more powerful over DC. I don\'t know where you get your funny ideas.
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BizioEE your first two paras are pretty much bull**** :) so ill go from here
Why VF4 is full of horrible jaggies is AA can be done virtually with no hit in performance? if it\'s so easy to implement? AM2 are very talented,am I wrong?
i have read developers from many developers saying that they might implement AA in their games, and that they really dont find the feature necessary.. in many instances they prefer the look of the sharper, clear cut graphics.. its possible that this is what they thought, or possibly they didnt care.. or possibly, like Yassam said.. they didnt think about it til the end and didnt want to rethink their whole engine..
many reasons, doesnt mean that its awefully difficult to implement :)
~~ also read what seven said
Why PS2 developers needed almost 2 years to make,overall,better looking games than DC ? because PS2 and DC are almost on par,overall? because of the incredible stepping magic learning curve of PS2 ? nope!...each console improves year by year...DC,PS2,GCN and XBox...the only difference is that you\'ll never see the PS2 fully pushed!
DC was a far underrated console in the gameplay, and graphics department.. but it didnt take this long, Tekken Tag did look better than Soul Calibur (i dont care what anyone says) and Madden did look better than NFL2K.. as far as im concerned..
you know where im headed
now, even now PS2 games arent TOO much superior to DC games, most of the big name titles do look better, but.. IMO, only Jak & Daxter would be impossible on DC (without noticible downgrades)
because of the incredible stepping magic learning curve of PS2 ? nope!...
you dont know for sure.. but what we DEFINATELY do know is that PS2 is the most diffiocult todevelope for and its learning curve IS much steeper than XBox and GC.. full stop .<<<---
whether you argue against it or not, PS2 has the most improvement in it from its launch games possible whether or not that happens, we shall see. XBox and GC games will definately improve as well, but to the extent of PS2? we shall see :)
seven~~
Honestly, I was pretty happy with Tekken TAG with its great graphics. Okay, prerendered backgrounds compared to SC, but hey, it still looked great and put a lot of DC games to shame in the graphics department. I\'m not sure, but I\'m pretty sure Tekken TAG uses bump-mapping.
only some of the backgrounds are 2D, most of them are done in 3D and all the characters and helicopters etc. in the background look great. the reflections in the water, and lighting effects are also brilliant (except the characters themselves dont reflect :mad: )
also, it does not use bump mapping, just extremely high textures on the floors :) and im not sure, but that might only be the last stage.. not sure tho.. still looks great
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only some of the backgrounds are 2D, most of them are done in 3D and all the characters and helicopters etc. in the background look great. the reflections in the water, and lighting effects are also brilliant (except the characters themselves dont reflect )
also, it does not use bump mapping, just extremely high textures on the floors and im not sure, but that might only be the last stage.. not sure tho.. still looks great
No doubt, TTT looks and plays brilliant. I was never a fan of Tekken until I got this one. As for the bump mapping: the second last stage (with the fire in the background) just looks awesome and the floor is pretty incredible with lots of detail. If it\'s not bump mapped, then they sure did use lots of polygons and textures as you\'ll notice that the shade does go into the edges of the tiled floor. I think Yoshimitsu\'s level also does this, where the shades change accoarding to the floor. Pretty awesome for a launch game.
I do however agree that Tekken Tag looks better than SC.
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yah, thats the level i meant *is incredibly stupid*
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Originally posted by BizioEE
even the best 3rd gen DC games make look the DC launch games and first games really sad
I\'ve heard from several separate individuals, in their opinion the graphics of the DC never advanced beyond Soul Caliber. Any DC owners besides Bizio care to comment?
Bizio,
Have you played VF4 or is your trash talk being manufactured out of hearsay?
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I think Tekken4 and Virtua 4 look really nice. IMO DOA3 is better graphically but not by a whole lot. In fact I was expecting it to be a lot better.
BizioEE, you\'ve become a true gestapo graphics nazi, congratulations!
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you know what else is remarkable mm sit down and actually learn the moves of the game (or any fighting game for that matter) and you will easily wipe the floor with a person who is button mashing
Very true, sit down and learn the moves and you can destroy a button masher.
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Originally posted by Heretic
I\'ve heard from several separate individuals, in their opinion the graphics of the DC never advanced beyond Soul Caliber. Any DC owners besides Bizio care to comment?
I believe Namco said they maxed out the DC...
I don\'t think the DC made any graphical leaps from its\' initial launch lineup. Nothing to drop my jaw about anyway...
I take that back, anyone play Test Drive LeMans? 5-6 Million polygons on a machine that supposedly maxed out at 3 million. The game was beautiful and showed DC still had a little life left in it...
And guys...DoA3>VF4/Tekken Tag. Get over it already...
And I love how you guys keep saying wait until SC2, Tekken 4. When someone says "wait for" an Xbox game, the idea is beaten to death...
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Rikku, if you\'re going to consistantly post the ironys of all the arguements on this board, then your usefulness here is moot. We already have a number of people who do that and we dont need another. Contribute something useful for a change, please.
As for the rest of this thread, the only lame comment I read was about VF4 being a button masher and DOA3 being great then VF4... You people must be buying the same stuff from the same seller. In any case, this thread is a waste. If a game is good, there\'s no point in debating how many jaggies it has.