PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => PS3 Discussion => Topic started by: Ghettomath on April 21, 2002, 05:08:48 AM
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Alright guys, I just rented Maximo yesterday and sure its a good game and everything but it really got me thinking...the adventure genre blows. The genre has just been plagued by the same hackneyed entities (hehe tities) since the brink of time:
Star Fox: Adventures could be Maximo could be Banjo and Kazooie could be Jax and Dexter could be Anus and Sphincter. It is just the same general game with a different character.
Ice/Fire/Scary Castle/Jungle levels...yawn.
Every other genre has advanced plot-wise, even shooters, but no...adventure gaming has had the same childish rehashed poo, you know?
I hate collecting things. Especially coins, puzzle pieces, anything but pornography.
NO ONE LIKES JUMPING PUZZLES. NO ONE!
I just dont understand all of the hype about whatever new Naughty Dog game is coming out because I could pretty much tell you exactly what is going to be included.
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Well, the games you\'re talking about are certainly aimed at
a certain audiance ; young ppl who like lighthearted action.
As long as the characters and action are funny then they like
it. The animated movies Pixar is puking out are similar ; a funny
protagonist cartoon character with even funnier sidekicks and
a lighthearted, good ending plot. So to conclude ; either you
love it or you hate it !
But for a good (very very good) alternative, in the puzzle/adventure genre I suggest you play ICO.:cool:
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this is exactly why im excited about Ratchet & Clank..
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*Beats Ghettomath into a gooey puddle of red goo with a lead pipe*
Ahem.. do I REALLY have to explain the differences between the Adventure genre and platformers AGAIN?!? Please people.. get your genre\'s streight before ranting.
Do I have to draw some of you a picture? How about a slideshow to help illustrate?
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justadventure.com%2Freviews%2FSQ5%2Fsq54.jpg&hash=6095582b0e4d5acd50787c143608a2ba820895e8)
Adventure
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wdell.com%2Fvideogames%2Fsm64%2Fbowser2%2FWall_Kick_Master_2.jpg&hash=22c42853f4fff651db08450e03b670933bd5c4c1)
Platformer
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Adventure mixed with other genres
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zdnet.com%2Fgamespot%2Fimages%2F2002%2Fvgnews%2F041802%2Fratchet%2Fratchet_screen002.jpg&hash=5f6aa87aa1d588037af01ae114c357ee363956f4)
Platformer mixed with other genres
The two genre types, even when mixed with other genres, are distictly different. I don\'t mind people who don\'t like or overly critique Adventure games.. as long as they\'re talking about ACTUAL adventure games. Calling StarFox:Adventure, Sonic Adventure, Banjo Kazooie, or Jack & Daxter adventure games is a slap in the face to all that LucasArts, Sierra, and Infrograms once stood for.
Sorry, I don\'t mean to make a mountain outta nothing.. but it\'s kind of pet peeve of mine.
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I understand what you mean SonyFan. I knew someone was going to debate with me on that. I love the dying (well actually...dead) adventure game genre. Grim Fandango for the PC was one of my all time favorites. I just see that platforming gaming has become what adventure gaming was in the past, only a much toned down, suckier version--it is taking over in popularity.
And Knotter, Ico rules
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yeah i dont like platformer games, though i enjoyed j and d...
but i loved the tr games, realy enjoying ico and sr2!!!!
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Yeah, but platformers have always been popular on consoles. What we\'re seeing now on the PS2, NGC, and Xbox is NOTHING compaired to what we used to see on the SNES, NES, Genesis.. Ect. I wouldn\'t say Platform gaming is starting to become uber popular.. I\'d say it\'s actually becomming a bit less popular since the 32bit Era. The N64 was the only -real- gaming system that catered to people who like platformers.
I don\'t see where you can draw any paralelles between Adventure gaming and Platformers, but I do disagree with Adventures being a dead genre. The market is spherical, I think, in that you\'ll have a genre that\'s a hit for several years until people just get tired of seeing the same ole-same ole, and pick up on something new... which isn\'t actually new, but a Genre they discarded along time ago because it was.. again.. same ole-same ole. It\'s starting to happen with FPS\'s.. gamers are seeking out new and different games because they\'ve pretty much seen all the FPS genre has to offer. There\'s only so much blood and gore you can take before it just becomes old hat.
Adventures aren\'t dead.. and in fact, I think they\'re seeing a revival much like RolePlaying games did in the 32 bit Era. Tho what it needs is one killer app that makes people stand up and take notice, like Final Fantasy 7 did for RPG\'s. Slowly we\'re seeing a strong resurgance in Adventure games.. usually mixed with other genra\'s to provide gamers who get too bored with pure puzzle solving a thrill while they learn to appreceate the style of gameplay adventures have.
Right off the top my head:
Monkey Island 4
Sam & Max 2 (In development)
Shadow of Destiny
Silent Hill
Resident Evil
Shenmue
Alone in the Dark 4
ICO
Fear Effect
Mist III Exile
And that\'s just a few of the many types of Adventure games that have gained huge popularity very recently. There\'s a ton more like all the Resident Evil clones such as D2 & Carrier, and the no-name adventures that are out there... although never gaining high popularity.. were given a chance to hit the shelves such as Stupid Invaders. Not to mention that 80% of the largest fan created game projects on the net are creating sequels to Sierra & LucasArts adventure games. Quest for Glory alone has 7 fan-made games in development right now, with Hero6 being the largest fan-made game project ANYWHERE.
There\'s even serious rumblings over in Bellview Washington that Sierra is going to start up all their old Adventure game franchises again. A new Space Quest game is rumored to be in the works, although it\'s not certain weither it will be Space Quest 7 or a remake of SQ1.
So no.. I wouldn\'t call the Adventure Genre "Dead", I\'d say it\'s just on the back burner, waiting for it\'s time to come back into the spotlight.
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SonyFan 0wnz!!! *hugs*
Sam & Max 2 will suck if they make it 3D. Or maybe 2D backgrounds with nicely cell-shaded characters would work? If it\'s at least half as entertaining as the first one I\'ll be in heaven :D
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Originally posted by Hawke
SonyFan 0wnz!!! *hugs*
Sam & Max 2 will suck if they make it 3D. Or maybe 2D backgrounds with nicely cell-shaded characters would work? If it\'s at least half as entertaining as the first one I\'ll be in heaven :D
SonyFan may be sexy but the bum is unreliable when it comes to a game of PSO.
:mad:
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LoL, look who\'s talking Mr. "Opps, I forgot v.1 players can\'t access v.2 lobbys".
What can I say tho... AlteredBeast has been a bad influence on me.
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I think that (good) adventure games have only ever existed for the PC. Resident Evil\'s adventure part sucked. Alone in the Dark 4 was just a re-hash of whats been done before. The only thing that made adventure gaming adventure gaming was Lucas Arts and we all know that. The genre would be nothing without Day of the Tentacle, Monkey Island, and Sam and Max. THOSE were the true adventure games, not these hybrids like your mentioned Silent Hill, Shenmue, Fear Effect. Gosh damn do I miss them.
So this whole idea that they are "on the the back burner" im not too sure I go along with. Think about adventure gaming of the past...now think of it without Sierra...uh oh. Im saying, unless Sierra makes a triumphant and much needed return, one of my favorite genres is still...dead.
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Youy pretty much summed up my feeling about Jak and Daxter
I expected the gasme to make the leap in the gameplay department as well as the graphics department
I\'m holding out hope for Ratchet and Clank
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Originally posted by Ghettomath
The only thing that made adventure gaming adventure gaming was Lucas Arts and we all know that. The genre would be nothing without Day of the Tentacle, Monkey Island, and Sam and Max.
you forgot Grim Fandango
one of the best games i ever played
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Originally posted by LUKE
you forgot Grim Fandango
one of the best games i ever played
Dude.... You need to get out of my head.
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The only thing that made adventure gaming adventure gaming was Lucas Arts and we all know that. The genre would be nothing without Day of the Tentacle, Monkey Island, and Sam and Max. THOSE were the true adventure games, not these hybrids like your mentioned Silent Hill, Shenmue, Fear Effect. Gosh damn do I miss them. - Ghettomath
True, but the way I see it, I\'d rather have a hybrid adventure game than no adventure games at all. If games like Resident Evil, Fear Effect, and such can get gamers interested in the Adventure aspect of these games, then big companies will be more apt to release "pure" adventures. Going back to Final Fantasy 7, look what it did to the RPG genre. The series itself has arguablely gone down the drain since, but look at all the other RPG\'s (many of them true to their roots) that have come from the success of the Genre.. all the way from Pokemon to Baulder\'s Gate on the PC.. RPG\'s have thrived in many different forms.
Notice another thing about my list? All console games... some multiplatform.. but all also existing on console, a market that has NEVER welcomed Adventure games. People who grew up on Mario and Sonic have a totally different approach to games than those who grew up with King\'s Quest or Monkey Island. They\'re in it for the action, so dumping a hardcore adventure game on them would be suicide for a company. Who (Other than PC adventure gamers) would play Resident Evil if it didn\'t have Zombies to decapitate with .12 gauge? Who (other than PC Adventure gamers) would play Resident Evil if the puzzles between areas were so damned tough that you had to spend hours before the next Zombie to kill? Console gamers aren\'t used to the level of difficulty PC adventure gamers thrive on.. and since they never grew up with the genre.. do not have the "Lateral Thinking" mindset to help them along.
Look, as much as I miss traditional Adventure games, you have to conceed that the Genre must either evolve or grow stale and perish for good. It happened to Infrograms when Sierra made the first "3D" graphic adventure, it happened to Sierra when LucasArts made their games mouse cursor only, it happened to LucasArts when FPA\'s like Myst came out. The genre must evolve. So I pick those games that most resemble the Adventure games of old (Resident Evil over ugh.. Tomb Raider*) and I play those and enjoy them for what they are. If the genre becomes big again, you\'ll see more pure adventures like Monkey Island 4, Grim Fedango, and Gabriel Knight 3 come out.. but they can\'t support the genre alone. Not anymore.
*(Tomb Raider is, IMO, NOT an adventure game. It\'s more of a Action/Platformer if anything)
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Agreed platform games suck! Adventure games are cool though.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
Dude.... You need to get out of my head.
its nice to see somebody else gives respect to one of the greatest advernture games ever...
i RARELY play games a second time but ive played Grim Fandango like 5 or 6 times now.
manny calevera rules!
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You guys are being pretty strict about what fits into what genre and what a certain genre is.
I never had a good grasp on what a certain genre meant because so many games, no matter what genre they are in seem similar.
maybe you could help me.
When you say pure Adventure game, what do you mean?
What are some examples and how does that differ from a action game, or action/adventure?
I think the genre names are tossed around very loosely and Don\'t mean as much as they maybe did in the past.
I think I have a good idea of what a Platformer is, but yet I see eliments of it in all types of games.
One thing I know is I hate platforming. I hate stupid twitchy jumping rolling and climbing. I hate having to do the same thing over and over again until I get it perfect.
I would rather be stuck because I don\'t know what to do.
rather than being stuck knowing what to do and not being able to do it.
Once I figure out what my next move is, I just want to do it.
Is ICO an Advenure game or a Puzzle game?
I thought it was an Adventerous puzzle game, but what do I know.
Is tomb Raider Action, Adventure or What?
Give me some examples of what you think best describes each genre. Cause I think it\'s pretty subjective and there are so many games with elements of each.
I never got into PC games, but most of you see mto think the PC has the only or best pure Adventure games. What do you mean by this and what are some examples?
Thanks
And
Later
TomN
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They aren\'t that bad. Seem to have gone slightly downhill since they started to move into the 3D realm....
Here are some that definately don\'t suck:
Mario (All of them!)
Banjo-Kazooie
Conquer\'s Bad Fur Day
Rocket: Robot on Wheels (I liked it...)
Sonic The Hedgehog (1 and 2 in particular)
i\'m just going to stop because I have 30 other games in my head.
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Originally posted by Ghettomath
Grim Fandango for the PC was one of my all time favorites.
I didn\'t forget guys. This game is right up there with Half-life, Goldeneye 64, and FF7.
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I\'m not a Genre expert TomN, but I\'m probably one of those closest to being an Adventure game expert on these boards so I\'ll try to answer you questions as well as I can.
Adventures, pure adventures, have gameplay that revolves around a few key points.
Exploration. - Walking around a described, prerendered, or fully 3D world and interacting with it.
Dialouge/Storyline - Old style adventures are starting to be called IF or Interactive Fiction. They have a heavy emphesis on storytelling and dialouge between characters. Most of the time (but not always) you are limited to one playable character who you guide through the Adventure.
Puzzle Solving. - This is the real flesh of an adventure game. This is not like Tomb Raider\'s "Find a key, Find a keyhole, Pull a lever, jump, jump, roll" kinda puzzle solving. This kinda puzzle solving includes Item Hunting where you solve a puzzle, gain an item, use that item to solve another puzzle.. ect ect.. and it usually includes a great deal of non-linear or "Non-Logical" thinking. For instance, to save you cheif engineer from the brig in Space Quest 5, you have to get a packet of SpaceMonkeys. On the back it says, do no mix with alcohol. So you have to put the space monkeys into your drink, which then fill up the spacestation with lil green critters. That draws SpaceCommand officers away from the brig, allowing you access to Cliffy\'s cell. Then you have use you pet face-hugger spike (as seen in the picture above) to take a piddle on the bars. The acid in his urine eats through them and lets Cliffy escape. It\'s actually a lot harder than it sounds when you have to figure it all out for yourself.
No or very little Action - In adventure games, there is very little action or fighting. If there is, there is usually a way around around it or a way to avoid it if you want.
There are two reason why, I feel, that adventure games have never been big on Consoles. First off, they\'re brain twisters with very little to no action. Console gamers have grown up with itchy thumbs and enjoy alot of fast paced action in they\'re games. This won\'t get you through an adventure where things are usually pretty slow paced. Another reason is that in the past, Adventure games have almost always been ported over from the PC and built with a KB & Mouse in mind and not a joystick. It makes the game engine cumbersome to scroll through item menus and options to connect actions with items or worse.. a slow moving mouse cursor controlled with the D-Pad. Now that we\'re seeing more and more adventure/adventure based games being build specifically for consoles, they\'re starting to gain in popularity.
As far as what marks a game into a certain genre. It has to do with just how heavily it relies on a certain gameplay aspect. Resident Evil is adventure in my (and many other people\'s) mind because the focus is on item-hunting/Puzzle solving first. You can run past zombies.. and there\'s very few areas where you absolutely MUST kill monsters to advance.. but just see how far you get when you decide not to pick up and use items to solve puzzles. Some games, like Zelda and QFG, defy classification. QFG being my example because I know the most about it. :D In QFG, you cannot advance without solving puzzles OR increasing your stats. Many puzzles rely on decent stats in order to complete. Like for example, to solve the healer\'s ring quest.. you have to have either a high throwing skill or a high climbing skill to get the ring from out of a birds nest. Yet, combat is almost completely optional... even for a fighter class character. You increase skills through practice.. not slaying monsters.
Anyhow, if you want to play through a few good "Pure" Adventure games.. then I suggest picking up:
Grim Fedango ;)
Sam & Max hit the Road
Monkey Island
Leather Godesses of Phobos
Adventures in Serenia
Mystery House
Mist
Frankenstein: Through the eyes of the Monster
Gabriel Knight
Kings Quest
Les Manly: Search for the King
Leisure Suit Larry
Quest for Glory (A good example of a hybrid adventure game)
Indiana Jones: Fate of Atlantis
Manic Mansion/Day of the Tentical
Willy Beamish
Legend of Kyrandia
Heart of China
Rise of the Dragon
Zork
Stupid Invaders
The Longest Journey
Riven
Lighthouse
That\'s just a few off the top of my head. http://www.MobyGames.com will be a lot more helpful. In most cases, you\'ll have to buy these games.. but there are other methods to getting what you want if the game you want to play is no longer sold or supported by it\'s parent company. PM me if you need further guidance.
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after talking about it i started playing grim fandango again today.
for dose of u\'s who aint never played said game... you should.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.enunpispas.com%2Fgeneral%2Fjuegos%2Fdibujos%2Fgrimfandango%2Fgrim00.jpg&hash=0240d24b4ecacdade324ecd2857e9b38a16937b6)
LOOKY HERE! you can get it for a mere ten bucks from Amazon. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004WGW1/qid=1019627867/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-9308017-2375832)
THATS A STEAL OF A DEAL BUDDYS!
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Sonyfan,
Thanks for putting in that time and effort to answer my Q\'s. That helped tremendously.
The reason I asked is because I have had this feeling my favorite genre is Adventure, but yet I have been playing exclusively on consoles, so I never really knew what I was missing. And haven;t been satisfied with the games I have been playing.
My PC just isn\'t built for playing modern games, so I have always turned to consoles for my gameing and yet always been frustrated with the lack of "Thinking" games available. I thought it was just me. Then ICO game out and I was in bliss.......for 5 days. But there has been nothing like it since and there seems to be nothing like it on the horizon.
Seeing as my 2 favorite genres seem to be RTS And Adventure, I think it\'s time to put toghther a decent PC and pick up some of those games.
Thanks Again
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SonyFan.. how COULD YOU! You didn\'t list Simon the Sorcerer games there!!??!?! StS2 is certainly one of the funniest/best adveture games ever made! Okay, so it\'s just an opinion... but if you\'ve played the game you\'ll surely agree! :D
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Ah well. I can\'t please everyone. Sorry bout that Hawke... it wasn\'t like a top 20 list or anything, just games off the top of my head. If I would have really gone all balls to the walls with it I could have a list 4x that size.. and Simon the Sorcerrer would definately be up there.
I missed Diskworld, The Dig, Martain Memorandum, and Seventh Guest/11th Hour too. :D
TomN, if you can surf the net, you can play most of those games up there. Actually, many of them (expecially the SCI scripted Sierra games) won\'t run on faster computers without a slowdown utilitiy to keep it from getting runtime errors. Basically, if it was made before 1998, you should have no problems running it on a Pentium 166 64mb Ram. Grim Fandango and The Longest Journey might be a bit higher specs wise, but not by much.
Problem is, you can\'t buy many of those older games anymore. But like I said, just because they\'re not available anymore dosen\'t mean you can\'t get ahold of em. I know how, but since it\'s technically illegal I can\'t post the method here. mm gives me a bit of leeway with this since the only reason why I do it is because these games are hard to find, and noone makes money off of them anymore. Anyhow, if you want some of these older games, just PM me and I\'ll point you in the right direction. :D Newer ones like QFG5, Grim Fandango, The Longest Journey, Stupid Invaders, ect, you\'re going to have to buy.
[edit]BTW: If you want to go ahead and buy a new PC for some good new adventure games, check out http://www.justadventure.com/. Read carefully though, since they tend to put a ton of games with even the slightest hint of Adventure qualities in with "pure" adventures. It sucks you see games like Tresspasser, Deus Ex, and Tomb Raider in with the "pure breed" adventures.. but they also have excellent coverage of both import and fan-made adventure games.
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I don\'t have to worry about low availability of old adventure games... I own all the originals :D Well... not all, but... err.. many!
Oooo... The Dig... *listens to the soundtrack and gets lost in Cocytus once again*
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Originally posted by SonyFan
There are two reason why, I feel, that adventure games have never been big on Consoles. First off, they\'re brain twisters with very little to no action. Console gamers have grown up with itchy thumbs and enjoy alot of fast paced action in they\'re games. This won\'t get you through an adventure where things are usually pretty slow paced. Another reason is that in the past, Adventure games have almost always been ported over from the PC and built with a KB & Mouse in mind and not a joystick.
Don\'t forget SonyFan (Now dubbed Master-Of-All-In-Adventure-Gaming) that consoles are preferred over computers because they have the multiplayer, at-home capability. Adventure games were never worked at the boom of the console because people liked the action of two player.
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True Ghetto, that was "A" factor. One of many, but I don\'t think it was one of the main reasons why Adventure games never took off on consoles. I mean, just look at all the single player games that gained huge popularity on consoles in the past.
Funny thing is, most old skool adventure gamers know that even while one person controls the game, having two players there working together increases the fun. Not to mention that people have a way of getting stuck into one way of thinging. Ever had to just walk away from puzzle for a few hours and come back to see the answer staring you in the face? Having another person\'s point of view there to help figure out puzzles and give advice is a great way to advance in these games.
Adventures are one of the very few genre\'s that are almost everybit as entertaining and satisfying for an observer as it is for the player.
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after seeing your sig 100 times sonyfan, i just gotta ask...
did you think Gabriel Knight 3 sucked as much as I did?
god i hate that game with a passion.
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Actually.... I dunno. My Computer is too big a pile of steaming feces to run it reliably. :( I\'ll let you know in two months tho.