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Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: slick on May 18, 2002, 01:14:17 PM

Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: slick on May 18, 2002, 01:14:17 PM
no, this is not a xbox bash thread, but the xbox has only been out for 6 months and its price dropped from $300 to $200.  i bet a lot of people spent $500+ on the console for christmas, and now....
i am kinda upset that ps2 is now $200, and i spent $330 on the ps2 with gt3 in january, but ps2 has been out for what, 2 years in the US.
i know that if i owned an xbox, i would be pissed right now.

btw, anyone going to pick up an xbox now?
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Living-In-Clip on May 18, 2002, 01:17:22 PM
Yes, I feel sorry for myself .
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ace on May 18, 2002, 01:20:43 PM
I would only be P.O. if I bought it a couple of weeks ago or so.

There\'s a price to pay when you want to be first on the block with new technology.

Ace
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 18, 2002, 01:43:45 PM
i feel sorry for the ones who dont know much about game consoles but where persuaded into buying one by sales clerks.

i DO NOT :wedge: feel sorry for those who bought the x box because of its graphics or microsoft making it or it being the newest thing out

:vader:
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: THX on May 18, 2002, 03:26:57 PM
No reason to be sorry.  Happy Xbox owners got to enjoy Halo, Munche\'s Oddysey, RSC...  while PS2 was in its slump.  Even though I got one on launch I welcome the price drop.  That inevitabley means more people will buy the console, and an increase in user base will attract more delevopers.  If anything you should feel sorry for the PS2/GC fanboys who now have a stronger competitor.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 18, 2002, 03:39:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by THX
No reason to be sorry.  Happy Xbox owners got to enjoy Halo, Munche\'s Oddysey, RSC...  while PS2 was in its slump.  Even though I got one on launch I welcome the price drop.  That inevitabley means more people will buy the console, and an increase in user base will attract more delevopers.  If anything you should feel sorry for the PS2/GC fanboys who now have a stronger competitor.


i cant look :burn:
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Rick on May 18, 2002, 03:42:46 PM
They got Halo, I envy them. Cant wait till I can afford one, again :rolleyes:
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Chrono on May 18, 2002, 03:47:15 PM
Quote
Happy Xbox owners got to enjoy Halo, Munche\'s Oddysey, RSC... while PS2 was in its slump


While ps2 was in its slump?
where were you?

I recall playing MGS2 and more
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 18, 2002, 04:29:23 PM
yeah, i dont seem to recall a "slump"
there was never a time where i was bored waiting for a new game to come out, like ummmm a certain other console i know....
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: SonyFan on May 18, 2002, 04:56:16 PM
Nope.. cause the price drop is good news to me. I haven\'t gotten one yet, but at 200 I\'ll probably pick one up next month along with a GameCube. This month I\'d working on upgrading my PC and getting my PS2. :D
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: macabre on May 18, 2002, 05:29:40 PM
Don`t feel sorry for Xbox owners (me included).
Which other console has such great 3rd party accessories ? ;)
Presenting the new Dust - eX :

(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ostrichesonline.co.uk%2Fpictures%2Fduster%2Fdust-ost-pdt-20-grey-big.jpg&hash=2a9a3c35351e057e637e6ecd922e67d02211237a)
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 18, 2002, 05:35:50 PM
lol, i need one of those for my xbox, havent touched the damned thing in two months
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: nonamer on May 18, 2002, 06:16:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
yeah, i dont seem to recall a "slump"
there was never a time where i was bored waiting for a new game to come out, like ummmm a certain other console i know....


What, you never remembered the first year of PS2\'s life? (Unless you played DC back then)
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 18, 2002, 06:43:38 PM
yeah, i had hella games to play back then

SSX
Kessen
Madden 2001
Summoner
Ridge Racer 5
Dynasty Warriors 2
etc....

please dont make excuses for "teh PS2 killah", errr i mean xbox
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: PahnCrD on May 18, 2002, 06:59:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
yeah, i had hella games to play back then

SSX
Kessen
Madden 2001
Summoner
Ridge Racer 5
Dynasty Warriors 2
etc....

 


So what did you do after that week.  I was quickly bored of most of the PS2 launch titles.. barring Timesplitters.

But hey, it was worse when I got my Xbox on launch, all I had was 3 games to play.  And after that week... there still hasn\'t been much.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Mr. Kennedy on May 18, 2002, 09:37:15 PM
that\'s OK, onimusha came out and made me happy :)
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: gameomania on May 19, 2002, 10:18:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
yeah, i had hella games to play back then

SSX
Kessen
Madden 2001
Summoner
Ridge Racer 5
Dynasty Warriors 2
etc....

please dont make excuses for "teh PS2 killah", errr i mean xbox


It\'s embarrassing to think just how PS2 owners were in  desperate need of games back in the day when  
"Summoner" is listed as one of PS2 early stellar titles.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: nonamer on May 19, 2002, 11:01:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by gameomania


It\'s embarrassing to think just how PS2 owners were in  desperate need of games back in the day when  
"Summoner" is listed as one of PS2 early stellar titles.


I agree. People who think that the Xbox is in a "slump" simply don\'t want to like the Xbox IMO.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Living-In-Clip on May 19, 2002, 11:15:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
that\'s OK, onimusha came out and made me happy :)


Yeah, those three hours it lasted totally rocked!
;)
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Hawke on May 19, 2002, 01:04:51 PM
I don\'t feel sorry for anyone as long as they\'re happy with their own choices.

Then I visit TeamXBox *sob*
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Terry Bogard on May 19, 2002, 01:38:32 PM
TXB is still in exsistence?


*me logs in to check post count over there*


and LIC, it took me 6 hours to get past the damn game,  so i appluad you for yer 3  hours:p
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 19, 2002, 02:48:59 PM
Its not really about feeling bad for x box owners because it has no games but about it could suffer the same fate as Dreamcast.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: PS2_-'_'-_PS2 on May 19, 2002, 03:45:30 PM
yep i agree hehe
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: SwifDi on May 19, 2002, 03:49:07 PM
This is so stupid. Feel sorry for Xbox owners? Give me a break man.... go stick your **** in a pillow... How you weren\'t trying to intend this to be a "bashing" thread baffles me.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: slick on May 19, 2002, 05:03:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by \\/apor Snake
This is so stupid. Feel sorry for Xbox owners? Give me a break man.... go stick your **** in a pillow... How you weren\'t trying to intend this to be a "bashing" thread baffles me.


i never bashed the xbox, nor did i say anything bad about it.  all i am saying is that for a console system that is only 6 months old to lose $100 of its value is ridiculous, thats all.
if other members turn this thread into a bashing thread, then thats not my fault, and if thats the case, close the thread, it doesn\'t matter to me.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: SwifDi on May 20, 2002, 04:12:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by slick


i never bashed the xbox, nor did i say anything bad about it.  all i am saying is that for a console system that is only 6 months old to lose $100 of its value is ridiculous, thats all.
if other members turn this thread into a bashing thread, then thats not my fault, and if thats the case, close the thread, it doesn\'t matter to me.


Here\'s reality: 99% of X-box owners could careless that the price dropped, they have their system, most are enjoying it, they don\'t care about business they care about gaming.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: slick on May 20, 2002, 06:03:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by \\/apor Snake


Here\'s reality: 99% of X-box owners could careless that the price dropped, they have their system, most are enjoying it, they don\'t care about business they care about gaming.


true, but as a ps2 owner, i was pissed when i heard that the ps2 dropped in price, since i was expecting it to drop later this year or so.  i was planing on getting rid of the system, but if i did, i wouldn\'t get as much as i would have a month ago.  my cousin owns an xbox, and like me, doesn\'t play it much, so he wanted to get rid of it to, but is not, since its not worth the loss.
gaming wise, your right, xbox owners can care less as long as the games keep coming, but resale wise, its a piss of a deal for them.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: SwifDi on May 20, 2002, 09:54:22 PM
Well thats the risk you take when you purchase a console. I have never with any console thought about taking it back. You have to do a bit of research before you start spending the dough I guess.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: 420blunt on May 20, 2002, 11:35:09 PM
In other words

Get PS2.  It gets the highest money back still.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: ooseven on May 21, 2002, 12:49:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by slick


true, but as a ps2 owner, i was pissed when i heard that the ps2 dropped in price, since i was expecting it to drop later this year or so.  i was planing on getting rid of the system, but if i did, i wouldn\'t get as much as i would have a month ago.  my cousin owns an xbox, and like me, doesn\'t play it much, so he wanted to get rid of it to, but is not, since its not worth the loss.
gaming wise, your right, xbox owners can care less as long as the games keep coming, but resale wise, its a piss of a deal for them.



Well i didn\'t

becuase i got my PS2 shortly after the UK launch i went near enough a FULL YEAR befire a price drop happend

unlike The X box owning UK people who have not only faced a price drop in the opening weeks

and are going to face another one ,to bring it down a further £50



:laughing: :laughing:

Way to got M$$$$ just Devalue your Console at such an early stage and there by crippleing your Price war strategy and giving a HUGE dent into Pupblic conficence


why didn\'t they realise that

PANIC price drops  = killing of in pupblic confidence in your product.

Chances of me getting a X box even if they drop the price to £150 or £100 ?

ZERO !
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: slick on May 21, 2002, 07:17:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ooseven



Well i didn\'t

becuase i got my PS2 shortly after the UK launch i went near enough a FULL YEAR befire a price drop happend

unlike The X box owning UK people who have not only faced a price drop in the opening weeks

and are going to face another one ,to bring it down a further £50



:laughing: :laughing:

Way to got M$$$$ just Devalue your Console at such an early stage and there by crippleing your Price war strategy and giving a HUGE dent into Pupblic conficence


why didn\'t they realise that

PANIC price drops  = killing of in pupblic confidence in your product.

Chances of me getting a X box even if they drop the price to £150 or £100 ?

ZERO !


whoa, thats not good, i dont know anything about when consoles were released overseas, but i hope that they get something from microsoft(some kind of restitution).  that sounds bad, price drop weeks after launch, and now a further drop in the price.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Trake M on May 22, 2002, 01:49:07 PM
I feel sorry for me too!  I\'m hoping I can sell my XboX for $100.  I\'m not pissed off by the erly price drop (and it was early) but I am pissed off about that it doesn\'t have games and it doesn\'t look like it\'s going to be getting any.  It looks like I won\'t be able to find anything worth while on the console untill some time in 2003 maybe?  Halo was great, but one good game every other year just isn\'t enough.  This is worse than the N64.  Much worse.  And now with the anouncement of XboX Live?  Man.... that\'s just crap.  They charge for what the PS2 will give you for free!
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 22, 2002, 01:58:18 PM
Trake M once you sell your x box you will be one step closer to sanctuary.  

You are right-MS is charging for its x box live because they are losing too much money off of hardware sales and x box live costs 1,000,000,000!  and they expect you to make up the difference with your cash!
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Tom on May 22, 2002, 02:29:45 PM
Nobody can say as to how the price drop will effect consoles... just yet, anyway. I just a tad peeved that PS2\'s are now much cheaper, but the way I look at it is that it\'s been one helluva year. My PS2 turns 1 year old in June. What If I had waited this long to get one?

No, $199 is still not enough to get me to buy an X-Box. I would have settled for a few good games (that I\'d be intested in,mind you) rather than a price cut. Perhaps e3 will change my mind.

Now the Gamecube, on the otherhand, is a different story. I was planning on spending about $250 anyway to get it and RE. Now it\'ll be just around $200 (excluding memory card)? Cool beans.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Riku on May 22, 2002, 02:41:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Trake M
I feel sorry for me too!  I\'m hoping I can sell my XboX for $100.  I\'m not pissed off by the erly price drop (and it was early) but I am pissed off about that it doesn\'t have games and it doesn\'t look like it\'s going to be getting any.  It looks like I won\'t be able to find anything worth while on the console untill some time in 2003 maybe?  Halo was great, but one good game every other year just isn\'t enough.  This is worse than the N64.  Much worse.  And now with the anouncement of XboX Live?  Man.... that\'s just crap.  They charge for what the PS2 will give you for free!


You still have to use your existing isp so it will cost you around 20$ a month anyway.  Then some developers will charge on top of that (Square for example).

For Xbox, I read that the first year will be free since you have to buy the 50$ starter kit.  Then there are talks that it\'s 9.95 a month after that...not bad, that\'s about what I spend when I go to Quizno\'s and not to mention that\'s a very good deal for what your getting...
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 22, 2002, 02:45:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rikku


You still have to use your existing isp so it will cost you around 20$ a month anyway.  Then some developers will charge on top of that (Square for example).

For Xbox, I read that the first year will be free since you have to buy the 50$ starter kit.  Then there are talks that it\'s 9.95 a month after that...not bad, that\'s about what I spend when I go to Quizno\'s and not to mention that\'s a very good deal for what your getting...


Not too bad that the other guy is giving it to you for free...

You have to buy a $50 dollar starter kit?  I thought that it was internet ready right out of the box. ..

Good deal for what your getting?  What do you get?  I havent ready anything and again the other guy gives it to you for free.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Riku on May 22, 2002, 02:54:08 PM
You still have to buy the HD and you will still have to have an ISP...20$ a month by most standards=not free!! and the 80$ HD.  

In the starter kit you get the browser, head set (for voice communication), starter game, and one free year of service.  One year of Broadband for free, and a head set, and a starter game...seems like a good deal.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: PS2Fanantic on May 22, 2002, 04:00:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Trake M
I feel sorry for me too!  I\'m hoping I can sell my XboX for $100.  I\'m not pissed off by the erly price drop (and it was early) but I am pissed off about that it doesn\'t have games and it doesn\'t look like it\'s going to be getting any.  It looks like I won\'t be able to find anything worth while on the console untill some time in 2003 maybe?  Halo was great, but one good game every other year just isn\'t enough.  This is worse than the N64.  Much worse.  And now with the anouncement of XboX Live?  Man.... that\'s just crap.  They charge for what the PS2 will give you for free!


I traded mine (Xbox) in for a PS2. The Xbox will be getting games but MS was losing about $60 USD prior to the price drop so now that\'s at least $160 USD per console. And 1 Billion is what MS is spending on online gaming. Just how many people have to spend $10 per month for MS to make all of this money back?
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 22, 2002, 04:02:50 PM
Money will not be made on Xbox or during it\'s 5-6 year life...this is all groundwork for its\' sequel.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: SwifDi on May 22, 2002, 04:36:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ginko
Money will not be made on Xbox or during it\'s 5-6 year life...this is all groundwork for its\' sequel.


Sequel? Why would MS even consider a sequel if their first console lost them so much money?

I\'m sure that the X-box is Microsoft\'s last system.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ace on May 22, 2002, 04:44:54 PM
Forget about the name on the console. Enjoy the games instead of hoping a console will die. It\'s all very strange to me that hardcore gamers like yourself would hope that the XBox dies.

Ace
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 22, 2002, 05:48:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by \\/apor Snake


Sequel? Why would MS even consider a sequel if their first console lost them so much money?

I\'m sure that the X-box is Microsoft\'s last system.


You ever heard of a long-term investment?  The Xbox is only 8 months old and barely gotten its\' feet wet...I wouldn\'t go counting out Xbox until after the New Year.  By then it won\'t have any excuses as a decent library of games and its\' network should be up and running smoothly...

Besides, MS said it themselves that they don\'t plan to make money on Xbox until 2005.  With the abrupt price drops and the ever so fierce competition, I see that estimate prolonged unless something absolutely miraculous happens...

I honestly hope Xbox sticks around as I\'m enjoying mine and look to have a busy (fun) fall/winter season.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 22, 2002, 05:51:10 PM
And as always Ace, you rock.  But if everyone were like you there wouldn\'t be a console debating forum...
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ace on May 22, 2002, 05:58:25 PM
I guess your right. I don\'t think there is a problem with debating what makes one system or game better than the other. I find that very interesting.

What I get tired of is the endless bashing of a console because of who makes it. When I was younger and a new system came out I got excited. I still do.

I have to get back to Celebrity Boxing, it\'s a real freak show tonight. :laughing:

Ace
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 22, 2002, 08:01:26 PM
by 2005 PS3 comes out

we ALL know what that means
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: nonamer on May 22, 2002, 08:16:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
by 2005 PS3 comes out

we ALL know what that means


Xbox 2? :D

Anyways, there was this really old article about how MS plans to stay in the gaming market for at least 20 years (Really old in fact, I\'m pretty sure it was written shortly after Xbox was announced). So I guess you can expect Xbox 3 and 4 as well. So \\/apor Snake:

Quote
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Ginko
Money will not be made on Xbox or during it\'s 5-6 year life...this is all groundwork for its\' sequel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sequel? Why would MS even consider a sequel if their first console lost them so much money?

I\'m sure that the X-box is Microsoft\'s last system.


Don\'t bet on it.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Mr. Kennedy on May 22, 2002, 08:21:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by nonamer


Don\'t bet on it.


I would...
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ace on May 23, 2002, 03:25:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
by 2005 PS3 comes out

we ALL know what that means



Hopefully a great system that is leaps and bounds ahead of what we are playing now.

I can\'t wait!!  :)

Ace
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 23, 2002, 04:18:10 AM
only m$ would think about releasing xbox 3 years after the 1st one

:rolleyes:
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: seven on May 23, 2002, 07:21:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ginko


You ever heard of a long-term investment?  The Xbox is only 8 months old and barely gotten its\' feet wet...I wouldn\'t go counting out Xbox until after the New Year.  By then it won\'t have any excuses as a decent library of games and its\' network should be up and running smoothly...

Besides, MS said it themselves that they don\'t plan to make money on Xbox until 2005.  With the abrupt price drops and the ever so fierce competition, I see that estimate prolonged unless something absolutely miraculous happens...

I honestly hope Xbox sticks around as I\'m enjoying mine and look to have a busy (fun) fall/winter season.


Don\'t take Microsoft too serious on everything they say. It\'s just like the interview Seamus had a while back: when asked about what he thinks of the disappointing sales in Japan, he quickly managed to make a quite positiv reply, by saying something like "it\'s the most succesful launch an american system had".. yeah right. :rolleyes:

The way things are heading, this "longterm investment" is backfiring. The way things are heading, I don\'t think we\'ll see a Xbox 2.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 23, 2002, 07:43:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ginko

Besides, MS said it themselves that they don\'t plan to make money on Xbox until 2005.  With the abrupt price drops and the ever so fierce competition, I see that estimate prolonged unless something absolutely miraculous happens...


Even though 2005 is rediculous enough, it looks like its going to be pushed back even more.  So MS is going to lose money for the next 4 years.  Not to mention they claim they are putting 1,000,000,000 into online gaming, which will set them back even more.  Plus they are going to make the first year of online gaming free. (at least thats what I heard)  Plus poor software sales.

Where do they expect to get their money back?
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: PS2Fanantic on May 23, 2002, 12:52:53 PM
I think competition is a good thing. If we didn\'t have that we would all still be playing pong.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 23, 2002, 01:55:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Clowd


Even though 2005 is rediculous enough, it looks like its going to be pushed back even more.  So MS is going to lose money for the next 4 years.  Not to mention they claim they are putting 1,000,000,000 into online gaming, which will set them back even more.  Plus they are going to make the first year of online gaming free. (at least thats what I heard)  Plus poor software sales.

Where do they expect to get their money back?


They plan to make it back in software sales...to get the software sales up they need to have more boxes in more homes, thus the price drop.  And they could make money on the server if enough people hook on...1 year free and then 9.95 after that...Sign me up!!
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 23, 2002, 02:13:17 PM
10$  a year?

yer being EXTREMELY gullible if u think thats what its gonna cost when M$ is sinking a BILLION dollars into it JUST FOR START UP COSTS

oh, and no EA and no activision games

:P
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 23, 2002, 02:17:27 PM
That was in one of the E3 announcements at IGN, seeing as how we go off rumors here I thought I would take it as fact...

No EA, No Activision...didn\'t they merely say they aren\'t supporting Xbox Live?  As in just the Network?
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Terry Bogard on May 23, 2002, 03:23:48 PM
I thought it was 2 billion?:confused:
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 23, 2002, 03:25:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Bogard
I thought it was 2 billion?:confused:


I think it\'s 2 billion overall (Xbox, marketing, network)...that is a ****load of money!!
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Terry Bogard on May 23, 2002, 03:29:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ginko


I think it\'s 2 billion overall (Xbox, marketing, network)...that is a ****load of money!!



Well yeah, I agree, 2 billion is alot.


I think the network is the most expensive thing though, and maintaining that and stuff. Marketing, hmm, that shouldn\'t take to much.  I figure they are using MOST of it to keep the network stable and making sure its up to par or whatever you want to say.

As long as they keep it up, stable, and free of bugs/viruses, it will be a good investment I believe. But thats just me.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 23, 2002, 03:33:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Bogard



Well yeah, I agree, 2 billion is alot.


I think the network is the most expensive thing though, and maintaining that and stuff. Marketing, hmm, that shouldn\'t take to much.  I figure they are using MOST of it to keep the network stable and making sure its up to par or whatever you want to say.

As long as they keep it up, stable, and free of bugs/viruses, it will be a good investment I believe. But thats just me.


They spent 500 million on marketing at and around the launches.

I think it would be an awesome investment if there were more people who had access to broadband...the idea of voice communication and player hook-ups, broadband, for around 10$ a month seems to good to be true...I\'m excited.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Terry Bogard on May 23, 2002, 03:37:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ginko


They spent 500 million on marketing at and around the launches.

I think it would be an awesome investment if there were more people who had access to broadband...the idea of voice communication and player hook-ups, broadband, for around 10$ a month seems to good to be true...I\'m excited.



Investment wise, for those Xbox owners looking for online play, with broadband access, well it is a DAMN good investment, who cares if there are no EA, or Activision games?  Im looking forward to the voice communication device, but player hook-ups? Thats news to me.  10$ a month isn\'t that bad, 120 a year, not to shabby.  I don\'t care, Once i have broadband, Im hooking it up, for some gaming online.  

Blah i killed this topic.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 23, 2002, 03:47:02 PM
the topic was long gone...

anyway, the player hookups is like the network will find players like you (skill level, games) and hook you right up... I don\'t know all the details but this is one of the highlights of the network...
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Terry Bogard on May 23, 2002, 03:54:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ginko
the topic was long gone...

anyway, the player hookups is like the network will find players like you (skill level, games) and hook you right up... I don\'t know all the details but this is one of the highlights of the network...


Oh, i got it, its one of those type deals, where if you want to only play a specific skilled person in a game, so basically you\'d have to just set up certain specifics before you log in?

Wow, im for one intrested in this.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 23, 2002, 03:55:31 PM
did you guys stop to think how little broadband gamers there are?

and how little of them cant afford 10$ a month on a credit card (if they even have one)

and how many are going to have to have money for a router and a LONG cat 5 cable cause most people do not have thier PC\'s right next to thier TV\'s

and how many people will not want to have to unlug thier cable/dsl modem all the time if they happen to be in the same room?

if thats the case, online xbox = dead PC, online PC = dead xbox

its not like i can plug my dust collector of a console into the outlet in the wall, and play online ya know
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Terry Bogard on May 23, 2002, 03:57:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
did you guys stop to think how little broadband gamers there are?

and how little of them cant afford 10$ a month on a credit card (if they even have one)




Yeah, this is a hunch actually, broadband gamers are few and far in exsistence, alot of people are still playing on 56k.  About the fee part, I dunno, 120 dollars for a year doesn\'t reall seem like that much cash to me.


Damnit, had to make me go back and re edit because you added things.  But anyways, I agree about the not wanting to dissconnect the connection from Xbox, to put it back on your PC.  and so forth.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 23, 2002, 04:00:02 PM
sorry, you know i always edit my posts right after i post themn cause i think of more spam to write
:)
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 23, 2002, 04:00:55 PM
Whether or not it will work or catch on is a different issue...you have to give them claps for trying it out though.  I for one will find broadband access as I\'m extrememly interested in this.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Terry Bogard on May 23, 2002, 04:02:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ginko
Whether or not it will work or catch on is a different issue...you have to give them claps for trying it out though.  I for one will find broadband access as I\'m extrememly interested in this.



As am I, I appluad em, even if it doesn\'t catch on, then whats to think.......
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 23, 2002, 04:03:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
did you guys stop to think how little broadband gamers there are?

and how little of them cant afford 10$ a month on a credit card (if they even have one)

and how many are going to have to have money for a router and a LONG cat 5 cable cause most people do not have thier PC\'s right next to thier TV\'s

and how many people will not want to have to unlug thier cable/dsl modem all the time if they happen to be in the same room?

if thats the case, online xbox = dead PC, online PC = dead xbox

its not like i can plug my dust collector of a console into the outlet in the wall, and play online ya know


=

x box online plan = flawed

PS2 online plan = Perfection
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 23, 2002, 04:03:22 PM
you dont have broadband access now?

sheesh, thats roughly  50$ a month right off the bat
plus you\'ll need a router and long cable ($100)
plus 10$+  a month.  

yer willing to sink all that money into this?
i got no problem with you doing so, just want you to realize the consequences

yeah, m$ is sinking a billion $ into this fiasco

clowd, the Ps2 online is far from perfection
there is no such thing as perfect
its just more appealing to the wide audience, thats all
were still gonna need a router and cable for the PS2 broadband
56k\'rs are plug\'n\'play
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Terry Bogard on May 23, 2002, 04:05:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Clowd


=

x box online plan = flawed

PS2 online plan = Perfection



I beg to differ with the above statement.


How exactly is MS\'s online plan flawed?   Please enlighten me, as too Sony\'s isn\'t exactly flawless ethier.  Both sides have things that need to be worked out.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 23, 2002, 04:05:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
you dont have broadband access now?

sheesh, thats roughly  50$ a month right off the bat
plus you\'ll need a router and long cable ($100)
plus 10$+  a month.  

yer willing to sink all that money into this?
i got no problem with you doing so, just want you to realize the consequences

yeah, m$ is sinking a billion $ into this fiasco

clowd, the Ps2 online is far from perfection
there is no such thing as perfect
its just more appealing to the wide audience, thats all


As I\'m not speaking for everyone else, money is not an issue.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 23, 2002, 04:12:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Bogard



I beg to differ with the above statement.


How exactly is MS\'s online plan flawed?   Please enlighten me, as too Sony\'s isn\'t exactly flawless ethier.  Both sides have things that need to be worked out.


Clowd, why don\'t you enlighten us all and give us some feedback as to the pros and cons of both plans?
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 23, 2002, 04:12:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Bogard

How exactly is MS\'s online plan flawed?   Please enlighten me  


Didnt you read any of mm\'s posts?
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ginko on May 23, 2002, 04:13:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Clowd


Didnt you read any of mm\'s posts?


So all you have to speak from is heresay?  And shotty heresay at that...
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 23, 2002, 04:14:15 PM
he never does

Quote
mm talks a bunch of crap that he usually can\'t back up anyway


-ginko

he\'s somewhere on his xbox cloud
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Terry Bogard on May 23, 2002, 04:15:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Clowd


Didnt you read any of mm\'s posts?



That doesn\'t matter,  


I\'m just trying to figure out why you are pulling comments like that.   Please do you care to enlighten me on how exactly Sony\'s plan is flaw free.  I mean come on, both sides have issues to work out everyone knows that.  MM has said some good things, but, im still waiting for you to fill me in on the pros and cons of both camps, so i know where you are coming from....because right now, i dunno WTF u are talking about by saying Sony\'s online plans are flawless.

Dear god, i am actually defending both consoles kind of.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 23, 2002, 04:19:46 PM
I will tell you one thing they are alot better then MS\'s.

Whats wrong with Sony\'s plans?  How can I tell you a flaw when there is none?

If you want to know more about pros and cons of the consoles online plan  ask mm his knowledge dwarfs even mine.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Terry Bogard on May 23, 2002, 04:21:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Clowd
I will tell you one thing they are alot better then MS\'s.

Whats wrong with Sony\'s plans?  How can I tell you a flaw when there is none?

If you want to know more about pros and cons of the consoles  ask mm his knowledge dwarfs even mine.



I already know his comments on the whole online thing.  I respect his Opipion also, as to he is the head hancho around here mainly. (not sucking up MM)  Then if sony has no flaws, then neither does MS.  Not yet anyways.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 23, 2002, 04:21:57 PM
good god man, im just a kommunist leader with a pet chimp, wtf do i know

:P

they\'re both flawed and suck  compared to online PC gaming
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ryu on May 23, 2002, 04:40:16 PM
Look, certain games will require the HDD, that splits the userbase since not everyone will have it, there\'s one problem.  The second problem is individual server costs per game from developers.  If FFXI costs 10 bucks on its own, and EA charges 10 bucks a month for its private servers (hypothetically) or to play Street Fighter online, Capcom charges 10 bucks a year?  That all adds up in the end and could be one big ass flaw.  People are iffy about spending 10 bucks to use playonline, imagine how they\'ll be when it comes to three companies asking for their money.

As for MS, their plans are a bit more stable with their software, but that still doesn\'t mean every developer will be satisfied with their options.  What if Activistion (announced already) doesn\'t want to use MS\' plans and want\'s to use its private servers, but requires the MS startup kit regardless to play its XBox games online?  That\'s a large investment already.  If you love THPS, you\'d be sh*t out of luck there.  That\'s just one flaw, 50 bucks a year is another that needs to be addressed.  How many good games will come out that will be online will I want to play?  If I play 50 bucks a year and play one game for one month, that\'s mean throwing cash away.  Oh well, it\'s all in the rafters isn\'t it?

I won\'t even get into the arguement of BB only vs BB/56K.  The flaws have already been pointed out in this thread.  It all boils down to the games.  If FFXI is worth your 10 bucks a month, then go for it, just remember you need a BB adapter and an HDD to play it though.  If Halo online is worth your XBox online experience, just remember that it\'s 50 bucks a year (or 10 bucks a month) and requires a startup kit with mandatory headset that costs 50 bucks (but that offsets thanks to one free year of Xbox online when you buy the startup kit.

Then again, in three years when Xbox goes to Xbox 2, just how much longer will this investment be worth it?  You\'ll have to make it all over again. :)
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 23, 2002, 04:43:35 PM
i would put anythiing on the line to say that individual devs WILL NOT charge to play online

its a retarded business model
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Terry Bogard on May 23, 2002, 04:47:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
i would put anythiing on the line to say that individual devs WILL NOT charge to play online

its a retarded business model




What exactly do you mean individual devs?:confused:
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 23, 2002, 04:49:43 PM
EA charging a monthly fee to play madden 2003 online
activision charging to play tony hawk 4 online
namco charging to play thier titles online
polyphony charging to play thier titles online

you pay the intial fee for thier game ($40), you take it home, stick it in yer PS2, and play, for free

etc etc
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 23, 2002, 04:51:31 PM
*trys to keep up with mm\'s brilliant posts :nut:

This is why this guy is the boss around here.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ryu on May 23, 2002, 04:52:35 PM
Tell that to Square.  They are not charging people to play FFXI you know, they are charging them to use the PlayOnline service.  When additionaly games are made for it, the costs will be the same even if you dont play FFXI.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ashford on May 24, 2002, 10:42:36 AM
Cat 5 patch cords are very cheap.

I get them for free.

Cause I can make my own.

:fro:
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: seven on May 24, 2002, 10:51:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ryu
Tell that to Square.  They are not charging people to play FFXI you know, they are charging them to use the PlayOnline service.  When additionaly games are made for it, the costs will be the same even if you dont play FFXI.


I believe FFXI is a MMORPG - setting up a server to deal with massive users online at the same time costs a bit more than the usual thing. And what about Peer-to-Peer? It works on the PC, why shouldn\'t it on PS2? No cost there...
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 24, 2002, 04:52:24 PM
yeah, someone around here has been rambling about gaming being peer to peer [no centralized server] for months now

i wonder who that genius is?
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ryu on May 25, 2002, 08:05:27 PM
Socom is not peer to peer and that\'s just one example.  There will be plenty others I\'m sure, but who charges what, we shall see.  What\'s great about PC gaming is that not only can companies set up servers for their games, but so can regular joes off the street so the companies don\'t have to fully fund them at all.  I know about 95% of the CS servers (most popular online game in the world) has server funding from regular people completely independant from Sierra. :)
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: ajoh432 on May 25, 2002, 10:51:54 PM
Although I would have said yes to this question a month ago.. I\'d have to say no.. Xbox\'s future actually looks like it could grow up nicely. The games only get better through time, bringing more gamers, selling more consoles = LESS MONEY LOST.. lol

But I\'m really happy that the price did drop, cause I will be getting one come July 25th.:)
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Chrono on May 25, 2002, 11:16:21 PM
well, if the xbox does not fix the situation in japan, I don\'t see it going anywhere

It may survive on the USA market, but I doubt consumers will be clammering over the xbox 2
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: ajoh432 on May 25, 2002, 11:33:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chrono
well, if the xbox does not fix the situation in japan, I don\'t see it going anywhere

It may survive on the USA market, but I doubt consumers will be clammering over the xbox 2
yeah that\'s true and makes sense. Europe isn\'t doing well too... But I know for sure Xbox will stay alive.. Simply cause Bill will be pumping it full of cash if they get low.. lol
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 26, 2002, 05:55:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ajoh432
yeah that\'s true and makes sense. Europe isn\'t doing well too... But I know for sure Xbox will stay alive.. Simply cause Bill will be pumping it full of cash if they get low.. lol


The sad thing about that statement is that it is true.

MS only entered the console war to try and take some of Sony\'s dominance over gaming away.  They felt it was a threat to PC gaming.  They think PC gamers are leaving PC for console, which is true.  That is why the x box has so many PC ports.

So I have to admit the chances of a x box 2 are...too good...

Well, who cares.  MS is losing money every day and will continue to lose money until they close the x box project.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: seven on May 26, 2002, 11:39:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ajoh432
yeah that\'s true and makes sense. Europe isn\'t doing well too... But I know for sure Xbox will stay alive.. Simply cause Bill will be pumping it full of cash if they get low.. lol


Bill Gates may have a lot of money - but that doesn\'t make him a dumb businessman. If the chances of Xbox 2 are bad and are not worth it, don\'t expect him to finance it. They might have money, but their not stupid. In other words, not Bill or anyone else will pump in money for nothing.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: TheTsar on May 26, 2002, 12:06:34 PM
Have any of you try\'d to run an online game with a system with 32mb ram and a 56k modem?
Hell I say Hell

Also I find it funny that you say how long do you think m$ is going to allow you to pay $10?

Yet you don\'t believe that the big companies will charge. New flash, they will charge...most of the online gaming is going that way. Also the thing about the 16b/s by running two things on a modem is false and I do it all the time and I get great ping still.

With that said, I know that The PS2 will have more people on line but what I don\'t think is that they will be as happy as Xbox gamers. But you never know.

Also If I recall isn\'t the start up kit for the Xbox only in North America cause I think that what I heard and that would suck for all the places where Xbox needs sales.

Also MS says that they are going to share the Xbox live sever with their PC division hacking Just doubled it\'s chances.

Doesn\'t the Linux kit for the Ps2 make it possible to hack other PS2s with a HD?

I also think that the Xbox matchmaker is one of the few reasons that Xbox live could appeal to a casual gamer.


...
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 26, 2002, 12:29:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TheTsar
Have any of you try\'d to run an online game with a system with 32mb ram and a 56k modem?
Hell I say Hell



Yet you don\'t believe that the big companies will charge. New flash, they will charge...most of the online gaming is going that way.


With that said, I know that The PS2 will have more people on line but what I don\'t think is that they will be as happy as Xbox gamers. But you never know.



About your 32 ram stuff, you obviously dont know consoles arent pcs.

Yes we dont believe the big companies will charge.  They never have, and never will.  Dont speculate when you have nothing to back it up.

So which one matters, more people online, or being slightly happier?  Not to mention having to pay to be more happier.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: TheTsar on May 26, 2002, 07:12:45 PM
Ya I understand that the PS2 is not a PC but It\'s still a computer.
And computers follow some pretty simple rules.

Sorry but a "T" bottle neck will give you lag Guaranteed. But if you dedicate a sever just for ps2 online you would get rid of this. So that’s probley what your thinking. But even so you still can\'t
Get quite a bit of  lag with a 56k.it would be likely running at Pc with about 32mb ram. to boot you 56k maxes at 46k. The average American gets about 38k.just so you know.

But regardless  \'let us just wish patience for them 56k gamers out there\'

Seconded you talked about why would you have to pay

-Companies are business first and that means for each expeditor you need a degree of Profit. The highest add on ratio to system is 34% and that came bundle with a bestseller game with not added price. Since the regular attach ratio is <10 let say it gets 5%. (Still has sold the most and that’s the funny part) That’s about 1.5-3 million people online. Now there is about 5 companies that sure to put out game to be bought. a game cost $40.
That apx. $6000000-120000000.now you have to build worldwide service plus production cost would be well over potential profit. And that is why add-on fee will be charge if it does get a high adoption ratio. which history point against.

So if we follow what we know then that would mean that no maters what both company online plan would both loss a lot of cash. And thus it is more imported to get a strong and happy following. So short term Sony wins, long term M$ wins.

Not to say that’s what’s going to happen but that would be most likely.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: clowd on May 26, 2002, 08:55:49 PM
I didnt hear of any complaints playing online with the low ram DC.  Why would the higher ram PS2 have problems?
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: seven on May 26, 2002, 09:37:47 PM
Quote
Ya I understand that the PS2 is not a PC but It\'s still a computer.
And computers follow some pretty simple rules.

Sorry but a "T" bottle neck will give you lag Guaranteed. But if you dedicate a sever just for ps2 online you would get rid of this. So that’s probley what your thinking. But even so you still can\'t
Get quite a bit of lag with a 56k.it would be likely running at Pc with about 32mb ram. to boot you 56k maxes at 46k. The average American gets about 38k.just so you know.


LOL. You are kidding right? Please explane... why is 32MB of RAM a problem?

Quote
-Companies are business first and that means for each expeditor you need a degree of Profit. The highest add on ratio to system is 34% and that came bundle with a bestseller game with not added price. Since the regular attach ratio is <10 let say it gets 5%. (Still has sold the most and that’s the funny part) That’s about 1.5-3 million people online. Now there is about 5 companies that sure to put out game to be bought. a game cost $40.
That apx. $6000000-120000000.now you have to build worldwide service plus production cost would be well over potential profit. And that is why add-on fee will be charge if it does get a high adoption ratio. which history point against.


$60\'000\'000 isn\'t very spot on as a profit, since in $40 every game has a licence fee to be payed to Sony. None the less though, please explain to me, why you think that the "woldwide service + production cost" will be higher? Seems to me your just assuming all those 5 companies will have their server up and running. You should also know that Peer to Peer is a option.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Psycomantis101 on May 26, 2002, 09:41:13 PM
Nope. I just cant wait for another 6 months till the price drops to $99.:D J/k

My friend has Xbox and he loves it . To tell u the truth so do i (cept for the controller). I dont feel sorry for xbox owners because i hope to be one soon.


In another 6 months;)
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: TheTsar on May 28, 2002, 05:04:38 PM
Psycomantis101:Some time you have to listen to hear! Owned a dream cast there was lag(a lot)!

Now image that lag trying to push a game like SOCOM.

Anyway it’s not as much as a problem as I first thought, and I see why you thought 32mb was enough. Had to brush up on the ps2 hardware a little, sorry.

Seven, you do know that lag is always because of the ram. The reason one says it from the modem/cpu is do to that it what catalyzes the reaction. Ram is a big player in online/networking.

Can’t wait to try and see


The Tsar
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: mm on May 28, 2002, 05:18:33 PM
ram?  networking?  

good god man, does the OSI module mean anything to you?

/me shakes head
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ryu on May 28, 2002, 07:02:59 PM
Quote
Seven, you do know that lag is always because of the ram. The reason one says it from the modem/cpu is do to that it what catalyzes the reaction. Ram is a big player in online/networking.


BUWHAHAHAHAHA.  Canadians.  You gotta love em.  They try so hard.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Watchdog on May 28, 2002, 08:14:05 PM
Hey, I\'m Canadian, but I\'m no where near that ignorant--buddy, RAM has NOTHING to do with lag.

Where do these clowns come from?

Anyway, there was quite a bit of lag in games like Unreal and even Chu Chu Rocket.  Mostly it was steady though so you just had to aim a second or  two in front or whatever, but this of course was on a server with only 8 max connections.

I\'m curious to see how a game like Planetside will transfer.  I really don\'t see it working that well.  For 1on1 games, or small number of connections it is doable, but there really is only a finite amount of pipe on a 56k.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: seven on May 29, 2002, 08:04:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TheTsar
Seven, you do know that lag is always because of the ram. The reason one says it from the modem/cpu is do to that it what catalyzes the reaction. Ram is a big player in online/networking.


LOL, that was a good laugh. :D

As for PlanetSide... mmh, I\'m quite anticipating this game, but also doubt that it\'s doable on 56k. I also wonder if there will be a port once on PS2, since it\'s a Sony developer behind this game.
Title: anyone else feel sorry for the xbox owners?...
Post by: Ashford on May 29, 2002, 10:27:03 AM
Quote
Yes we dont believe the big companies will charge. They never have, and never will. Dont speculate when you have nothing to back it up.


Haven\'t you made yourself look bad enough, yet?

You obviously have no idea what you\'re talking about.

PSO V2 charges $15 for 3 months.

Oh, I forgot...

Sega is a tiny company, makes only PC games, and their consoles last as long as the lifespan of a housefly.