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Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: pstwo on May 21, 2002, 09:11:34 AM
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WOOOO!! :D
The rumors are true. Hideo Kojima and his team of designers at Konami Computer Entertainment of Japan are hard at work on a follow-up to last year\'s critically acclaimed and wildly successful Metal Gear Solid 2 for the Xbox, and it\'s not Metal Gear Solid X. Called Metal Gear Solid 2 Substance, the game will be shown at E3, almost two years to the day since Sons of Liberty was unveiled, and its name is telling.
Like the Japanese release of Integral for the original Metal Gear Solid, Substance will build on the Metal Gear Solid 2 experience by adding literally hundreds of new VR missions and noteworthy bonus material. But there\'s more to Substance than just a series of new mini-missions. Among other things, Substance will remedy Kojima\'s controversial introduction of Raiden by letting you assume the role of Solid Snake throughout the entire course of Metal Gear Solid 2.
The game will also let you play as several other characters, including Pliskin and the cyborg ninja. There are even five new episodes completely unrelated to Sons of Liberty that will take you on entirely new adventures with Solid Snake.
Substance is so big, in fact, it\'ll take up an entire double-density DVD disk when it releases for Microsoft\'s console this November. PlayStation 2 and PC fans shouldn\'t be disheartened, however, as Konami is concurrently developing Substance for those other platforms as well. To find out more about this game, we sat down with Hideo Kojima, famed creator of the Metal Gear series and director of Metal Gear Solid 2 Substance.
GameSpot: We understand that you\'re a fan of the late-\'70s British band Joy Division. Was the inspiration for this game\'s title taken from the band\'s album, Substance?
Hideo Kojima: That is one reason. The real reason is that this is the substance--real form--of Metal Gear Solid 2. This is what MGS2 should be.
The appeal of Metal Gear Solid is the stealth gameplay that allows much freedom along with being able to enjoy the story while playing the game. People who played MGS said that not only did they enjoy the gameplay but also the story. That is why I created Metal Gear Solid 2 as an orthodox sequel in which the emphasis is on the story. Because of this, the freedom of gameplay has been restricted to a certain extent. With Substance, you can play Sons of Liberty and also enjoy more gameplay that is not restricted by the story of Sons of Liberty. MGS requires both aspects to make it complete. In that sense, this is the substance--real form--of MGS. This is not the same as a conventional director\'s cut.
GS: How soon after the release of Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty did development on Substance start?
"This is what Metal Gear Solid 2 should be."
-Hideo Kojima[/b]
HK: After the completion of the US version of Metal Gear Solid 2, we developed the Japanese, European, and Korean versions of the game. We started developing Substance right after completing the Japanese version.
GS: From the early screenshots we\'ve seen, it looks like you can play as Raiden through the tanker part of Metal Gear Solid 2 and as Snake through Big Shell. Does this mean that you\'ve rerecorded dialogue to compensate for this character switch?
HK: We basically used voices from Metal Gear Solid 2 and did some rerecording for lines specific to this game.
More here http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2866504,00.html
LOOK!! Raiden in the tanker!!!!!!
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didnt they learnt thier lesson after silent hill silent dreams and onimusha genma
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cool its comming to the PS2.. :D
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Dang. *goes and tries to sell his copy of MGS2 while it\'s still worth something*
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And it\'s coming out for Xbox first, and it looks like a bunch of other people are going to port it to the other systems later. Guess this is MGSx afterall, but with a new name.
Quote:
HK: Yes, this is the Metal Gear Solid 2 game for the Xbox.:D:p
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Errrr.......now im pissed......RAIDENS ON THE TANKER!? Now it makes you wonder if Snake will be in it at all.......
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Why wont they just make a true sequel. .. . :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by cloud345
Errrr.......now im pissed......RAIDENS ON THE TANKER!? Now it makes you wonder if Snake will be in it at all.......
bah, read the whole damn interview, then you will find your answer you seek.:o
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Sounds like it\'ll turn out better than what I initially thought. The "five new episodes" have caught my attention.
But even so, I\'ll wait until it drops to $20 or so before buying it. I made the mistake of paying full price for MGS: VR Missions back on the PSX, and I don\'t want to do it again.
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I wonder just how improved the Xbox graphics are because those look like PS2 shots to me.
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I\'m not interested... Just some director\'s cut version... come on is it worth to spend 50 bucks just so you can control Snake in the same levels you\'ve already played, and vice versa with Raiden? I mean there was discussion on if MGS2 was even worth 50 bills, and now this... Like I said, I\'m uninterested.
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Originally posted by Ryu
I wonder just how improved the Xbox graphics are because those look like PS2 shots to me.
That is just what i was thinking Ryu!!
They better use the Xbox\'s graphical powers for this game, just imagine the lighting and textures they could add, let alone the more poly\'s they could add to the player models them self!!
I couldn\'t stand the graphics on the Big tanker, there were jaggies every where, and why they didn\'t keep it at night is beyond me, ohhh imagine that a spy game in the middle of the afternoon, i am surprized that Raiden didn\'t stop for a cup of tea and some cake!!
PLEASE MAKE A BETTER GRAPHICS ENGINE!!
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I have seen pics of snake on a skateboard, a bit like thps3.
Anyone know if they are real
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Actually in a previous Kojima interview he said the x box wasnt all it was cracked up to be.
He said the power was about the same, and the only way the x box version could look better is because x box hardware can produce shadows without using any processor strength, so what he can take from the shadows and can use the extra power give it sligthtly better graphics.
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Originally posted by Clowd
Actually in a previous Kojima interview he said the x box wasnt all it was cracked up to be.
He said the power was about the same, and the only way the x box version could look better is because x box hardware can produce shadows without using any processor strength, so what he can take from the shadows and can use the extra power give it sligthtly better graphics.
Yeah he was making a game for the PS2 and he said that the Xbox wasn\'t that much more, wow imagine that, he is making a game for one console and he says the one he isn\'t making a game for isn\'t that much better!!
Just incase you didn\'t know that is the way the world works, YOU HAVE TO SELL YOUR PRODUCT!!!
If the Xbox isn\'t much better then why are we seeing some amazing graphics out of the xbox that are surpassing the PS2, i mean i haven\'t seen a game look as nice as Resident Evil on the Cube.
And also i think you\'ll find that in one of the interviews, he actaully said that he haden\'t tryed the Xbox or Cube out for develoiping a game, so how would he have known if it was wasn\'t hat much better???
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Its my fault for not saying it but he was talking about MGS 2 x or whatever. Yes he was developing MGS2X for the x box and when he said that.
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Originally posted by Clowd
Its my fault for not saying it but he was talking about MGS 2 x or whatever. Yes he was developing MGS2X for the x box and when he said that.
Have you got a link to this? did he say this at E3? And also from looking at the pictures of the new game, it looks like he has just ported it over, he hasn\'t made any use of the xbox\'s graphics.
But hey maybe HALO looked so nice because the xbox didn\'t have to worry about the shadows LOL
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Oh the joys of a convenient memory, eh Clowd? ;)
Here\'s the interview where Hideo made those comments, and it dates WAY back to April 2001!!!;
http://www.ps2domain.net/news/401/40701.shtml
Hmmm....
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Why would his opinion change now?
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Er-hem, he wasn\'t working on the XBox then, he was 100% committed to finishing MGS2 on the PS2, which he said in another interview when asked about MGSX. This led to some gamers claiming MGSX was just a rumour which will never happen.
Today, he IS working on the XBox. Big difference!
EDIT: One final point, his comments were made when developers were still using phase2 XBox devkits, which had 50% the graphical power of the final hardware and emulation for many features of the media processor (hence the poor framerate of some XBox games, such as Halo, at E3 2001!). Therefore at the time, he would not be able to compare the real performance of the XBox against the PS2, even if he wanted to!
Ok, enough from me, it\'s time to go home! :)
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I\'m getting the xbox version.:thepimp:
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Ethan,
But hey maybe HALO looked so nice because the xbox didn\'t have to worry about the shadows LOL
LMAO. Maybe HALO looked so nice because it only ran at 30 fps? :p
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So the interview proves Hideo had no clue as to the capabilities of xbox? Pa-leese!
But I understand Clowd\'s confusion. If you listened to any xbox fanboy back then it was evident MGSX was under development at the time and the graphically enhanced xbox version with added content would follow right on the heels of the inferior :rolleyes: PS2 title.
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if thier straight ports, screw the xbox version
i\'d rather have better control
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"So the interview proves Hideo had no clue as to the capabilities of xbox? Pa-leese!"
Not that he was clueless, but certainly that his opinion was based on his own assumptions only (which I respect), rather than fact (see my edit above).
"But I understand Clowd\'s confusion. If you listened to any xbox fanboy back then it was evident MGSX was under development at the time and the graphically enhanced xbox version with added content would follow right on the heels of the inferior PS2 title."
Or if you listened to the more informed Xbox fan at the time ;) ...
... he would say (as I did back then) that Hideo had already confirmed in interviews that he is working 100% on the PS2 version ONLY, since his priority was to finish MGS2 and make it the best game he could on the PS2. Hence, work on MGSX would have to wait until MGS2 was complete. And here we are today! :)
EDIT: Just found one of the threads I recalled from the time, and notice my 3 posts in there too (wow, my memory is better than I thought :D)
http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=8066
quote - "Assuming MGSX is MGS2, then except for FSAA and better lighting, I wouldn\'t expect it to look THAT much better than MGS2. This is Not because of power, but because it\'s a straight port of one of the most important titles for the PS2." :eek:
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Why are people arguing over the statements of one man from awhile ago? What\'s the point really? On top of that, why are people arguing about a port? Ports suck. I\'d rather have a completely redone MGS1 rather then this stuff.
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Originally posted by Dr Yassam
"So the interview proves Hideo had no clue as to the capabilities of xbox? Pa-leese!"
Not that he was clueless, but certainly that his opinion was based on his own assumptions only (which I respect), rather than fact (see my edit above).
I really think Hideo was basing his assumptions on a lot more fact than you give him credit for (i.e. being an industry insider plus an educated evaluation of performance based on specs) and I also feel his comments were influenced by how the projected resulting difference in console power might be perceived in the eyes of gamers. Woah! Now it\'s me making assumptions. Anyway, a year has passed and Hideo\'s assumption has so far have played out very accurately. After all, the xbox graphical difference hasn\'t been near enough in the eyes of the public to sway sales in its favor.
And yeah, I saw your edit above. Now we can all see the mighty xbox running at 100% power, HALO running at 30 fps instead of 10 to 20 as it was at last years E3 and know why it\'s being called PC Lite. I\'m sure Hideo Kojima San was blown away :rolleyes:
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Didn\'t Konami try this with SH2? Yep, they did. On the same note, this is the elusive MGSX that has been talked about for over a year now? Gee ...:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by seven
Ethan,
LMAO. Maybe HALO looked so nice because it only ran at 30 fps? :p
LMAO. and what would it run at on other consoles? LOL
Also this was a launch game, and for a launch game i thought it was pretty amazing, i mean didn\'t it get Game of the year??
You do now that i said about the shadows for a laugh don\'t you, because this is what Clown said Hideo said about the Xbox.
------------------------Posted by Clowd--------------------------------------
Actually in a previous Kojima interview he said the x box wasnt all it was cracked up to be.
He said the power was about the same, and the only way the x box version could look better is because x box hardware can produce shadows without using any processor strength
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Originally posted by Dr Yassam
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Oh the joys of a convenient memory, eh Clowd?
Here\'s the interview where Hideo made those comments, and it dates WAY back to April 2001!!!;
____________________________________________________
Thanks there Dr Yassam, i knew this was the interview he was talking about, but i didn\'t have the time to go and find it agian.
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thats what you get for reading Clowd\'s reply..
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LMAO. and what would it run at on other consoles? LOL
Why speculate? It\'s on Xbox with only 30 fps. You can always speculate about how it would run on another console, but it\'s not really necessary is it? Yeah a launch game.. so what? Is that suppose to be an excuse for a game that was in development for years?
Halo isn\'t all that impressive graphicswise and it certainly did not win an award for game-of-the-year because of its graphics. Get your facts straight. Now, imagine how good this game would look if you had it running at 60 fps. LMAO. At least MGS2 had a constant 60 fps...
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Originally posted by seven
Why speculate? It\'s on Xbox with only 30 fps. You can always speculate about how it would run on another console, but it\'s not really necessary is it? Yeah a launch game.. so what? Is that suppose to be an excuse for a game that was in development for years?
Halo isn\'t all that impressive graphicswise and it certainly did not win an award for game-of-the-year because of its graphics. Get your facts straight. Now, imagine how good this game would look if you had it running at 60 fps. LMAO. At least MGS2 had a constant 60 fps...
I don\'t know if you remember Jap PS2 launch games...and the 1st FPS for PS2 :laughing:
...fact is Halo is Game of the year(a launch game) and obviously it\'s not due to graphics only...
...maybe you should wait till Halo2 to deliver a honest judgement...xbox fans excuses? when PS2 fans still say wait till Tekken4,SC2,etc etc,after 2 years and half from launch? (at least Halo is a launch game developed on unfinished hardware...but it\'s an excuse if it\'s a XBox game...right?)
MGS2 has a constant 60 fps...but...if I remember correctly...it was released 1 year and half after launch...LMAO...it\'s not the same thing! and if I look at graphics in MGS2...I really can\'t understand why people are excited...cut scenes apart,the graphics,animations are nothing special for me and game-play,AI...very simple...
...some weeks ago you said that playing MGS2 was like playing a movie...well...I played it...and I can\'t understand what you were speaking about...only cut scenes look like a "PSX CG intro"...the in game graphics are not spectacular(I\'m speaking of animations and "effects")
but back to the main debate here...I still remember Hideo saying that processing power on DC,PS2 and GCN are almost the same under his vision(his idea,concept of a game),his point of view...and everyone here knows it\'s not true from a technical point of view!
I don\'t know if I\'ll manage to find the link...
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and if I look at graphics in MGS2...I really can\'t understand why people are excited...cut scenes apart,the graphics,animations are nothing special for me and game-play,AI...very simple...
You do know that the cut scenes are in REALTIME using the INGAME models right? Just different camera angles..
Yeah you can check it by zooming in and moving the camera while the cutscenes are running..
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.480.telia.com%2F%7Eu48019550%2Fct4.JPG&hash=1f26e7666bf50d24949972b5acac38d3d011cdb0)
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Originally posted by fastson
You do know that the cut scenes are in REALTIME using the INGAME models right? Just different camera angles..
Yeah you can check it by zooming in and moving the camera while the cutscenes are running..
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.480.telia.com%2F%7Eu48019550%2Fct4.JPG&hash=1f26e7666bf50d24949972b5acac38d3d011cdb0)
I know...but the fact that cut-scenes use the game-engine does not mean that the "in game" graphics use the same effects and animations shown in the cut...
Don\'t get me wrong...I enjoyed this game...I\'m simply "complaining" about seven\'s comments:"playing MGS2 is like playing a movie" - from my point of view obvioulsy(my opinion).
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Originally posted by BizioEE
I know...but the fact that cut-scenes use the game-engine does not mean that the "in game" graphics use the same effects and animations shown in the cut...
Its ingame, ingame.. PS2 is sitting there and drawing everything we see in REAL TIME.. no fake FMVs...
Very impressive..
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Originally posted by fastson
Its ingame, ingame.. PS2 is sitting there and drawing everything we see in REAL TIME.. no fake FMVs...
Very impressive..
well...I don\'t like very much fake FMVs too...I\'m with you on this:)
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Originally posted by Ryu
Ports suck. I\'d rather have a completely redone MGS1 rather then this stuff.
i am with you on this one
why fix something if it ant broke ?
other than a MGS1 remake on the PS2 ( Graphics and the fluid control system)
another couple of consepts that would nice ..could be a totaly NEW game or a Spin off series of MGS untill the NEXT BIG one.
doing a REMIX of MGS2 is Nice ...but its not the best thing that could happen to us Snake and Riaden Fans.....
not to say that i Wont Buy MGSS
its just it won\'t have the Same impact asa totaly new game
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Originally posted by ooseven
i am with you on this one
why fix something if it ant broke ?
other than a MGS1 remake on the PS2 ( Graphics and the fluid control system)
another couple of consepts that would nice ..could be a totaly NEW game or a Spin off series of MGS untill the NEXT BIG one.
doing a REMIX of MGS2 is Nice ...but its not the best thing that could happen to us Snake and Riaden Fans.....
not to say that i Wont Buy MGSS
its just it won\'t have the Same impact asa totaly new game
I\'m with you on this one too:)...I couldn\'t resist...I\'ve got MGS2 for PS2 and I\'m not sure if I\'ll get a port or a remix...let\'s wait and see...
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If Kojima releases MGS Substance on PS2 in 2003 ?
Baghh ! Sounds like milking out a game which was
half as good as MGS1 in my humble opinion.
By that time Splinter Cell will be ...uhhumm..., ported
to PS2 and I\'ll look which of the 2 games fits me best
knowing I already have MGS2 SOL.
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animations are nothing special for me and game-play,AI...very simple...
:laughing: :D :laughing:
sorry BizioEE.. i dont care in the past whether ive thought you were right or wrong in debates, ive always maintained respect for you.. but after that last comment.. but you\'ve just lost all credibility in my eyes
the animations are so superb its unbelievable.. fully motion captured using military advisors and actors capturing the smallest detail and movement and gestures.. yeah.. the animations sure do suck :rolleyes:
and the AI is some of the most advanced ever used in a videogame.. it left me with my jaw.. on the floor several times just some of the things the enemies were doing
maybe you should play just a little bit longer than the tanker episode buddy :laughing:
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
sorry BizioEE.. i dont care in the past whether ive thought you were right or wrong in debates, ive always maintained respect for you.. but after that last comment.. but you\'ve just lost all credibility in my eyes
I feel sorry for that :(
the animations are so superb its unbelievable.. fully motion captured using military advisors and actors capturing the smallest detail and movement and gestures.. yeah.. the animations sure do suck :rolleyes:
I did not say animations suck...simply I\'m not impressed...
...and don\'t get so offended if I\'m not impressed...it\'s just me...
and the AI is some of the most advanced ever used in a videogame.. it left me with my jaw.. on the floor several times just some of the things the enemies were doing
Why AI is some of the most advanced ever used in a videogame? please tell me...
ps: I\'m enjoying this game...
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Originally posted by BizioEE
I did not say animations suck...simply I\'m not impressed...
...and don\'t get so offended if I\'m not impressed...it\'s just me...
Tihi.. Yes our own little pet troll.. We love you Bizio!
Why AI is some of the most advanced ever used in a videogame? please tell me...
Go play it and watch how the guards react.. (Play it on Hard)
ps: I\'m enjoying this game...
The why keep nitpicking?
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Tihi.. Yes our own little pet troll.. We love you Bizio!
and I love you little loser ! ...er time waster...er...troll...
:)
ps: PS2 and MGS2 are not your life...don\'t get so offended...get a life and stop to cry like a girl when someone is not impressed by your beloved games...
your life won\'t change for this little kid! :)
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ps: PS2 and MGS2 are not your life...don\'t get so offended...get a life and stop to cry like a girl when someone is not impressed by your beloved games...
You go to a forum complaining about videogames rather then enjoying them and you tell someone ELSE to get a life? Please, we\'re all just a bunch of dorks, the worst ones are just in denial (like yourself). Get off your perch and just shut up.