PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: fastson on June 02, 2002, 07:49:05 AM
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From RPGFan (http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2002/1558.html)
Post E3: The Elderscrolls III: Morrowind X-Box Impressions
During our interview with Bethesda Softworks, RPGfan had an opportunity to sit down and play an almost final version of the impressive action-RPG for the X-Box.
Those who are familiar with the recently released PC version will be pleased to see that all of the quest freedom has been retained for the console port. The extensive character creation and class development was also unscathed. Alas, the in-depth Construction Set that shipped with the PC version, an impressive feature that allowed the player to change various aspects of the game world, will be absent from the X-Box release. Bethesda stated that it was fundamentally impossible to create such a powerful editing tool for any X-Box game and that Microsoft is extremely protective of the X-box’s HDD. Allowing gamers to change code that is resident on the X-Box hard drive has a great potential to corrupt the unit, leading to game instability and possibly console death. So much for RPG Maker on the X-box! Even though The Elderscrolls III: Morrowind utilizes the X-Box hard drive, the game suffers from long initialization times as the data is streamed to disc.
The player interface has been streamlined to utilize the strengths of the X-Box controller. While the inability to have a plethora of convenient hotkeys was a bummer, Bethesda did an admirable job at making the game easy to pick up and play. All the menus are simple to navigate and the extensive conversation system has been streamlined to automatically tag new subjects, allowing the player to open new topics of conversation without the repeated pointing and clicking of the PC edition. Controlling your character in Morrowind was a breeze, though the lack of true analog movement made me a bit wary. Combat is carried out in real-time though the game suffered from collision detection issues that will hopefully be resolved before final release.
All of Jeremy Soule’s magnificent music has been perfectly retained, as have the extensive character dialog throughout the adventure. I wasn’t able to tell if the audio was available in Dolby Digital, but was impressed by the remarkable score nonetheless.
Sadly, the most disappointing aspect of Morrowind was the graphics. While the PC version was breathtaking, though required a hefty machine to run smoothly, the X-Box version was lackluster. Severe aliasing was present on both the backgrounds and the character models in addition to extremely grainy visuals. The end result was equivalent to the PC version running in low resolution with 16-bit textures. The background pop-up was another annoyance, though the attempt to mask the limitations of the hardware through fog was almost laughable. While the PC version was notorious for haphazard frame rates and polygon clipping/tearing, the X-Box version was considerably more cohesive, even with animation in the ballpark of 14fps.
The painfully plodding frame rate, the lackluster visuals, and the slipshod collision detection were serious issues that I doubt can be completely rectified before the game goes gold. After playing the PC version on a capable gaming rig, I can honestly tell you that the X-Box version is little more than a stripped down port of an amazing game. There has been much speculation as to why the X-Box version of Morrowind had been delayed time and time again, and I wonder if Bethesda bit off more than they could chew with the limitations of Bill’s Box.
The Elderscrolls III: Morrowind is a fantastic role-playing experience that every RPGfan should avail themselves of…on the PC. The fact that the X-Box fails miserably in capturing the full effect of the game is a testament to Bethesda Softworks cutting-edge PC development and the limitations of PC-to-console ports in general. Like the old adage says, some things are better left alone. Those who are unable to play the game in it’s more impressive incarnation will probably find the X-Box edition an entertaining adventure, but you don’t know what you’re missing. For those eagerly awaiting the port, Bethesda promised that the game should be available at a software retailer near you in June.
Say what you will.. So the rumours were true? MS Q&A delayed the game because the framerate was so bad?
Lets hope they can get it upto 20-25 at least.. Is that to much to ask Bethesda? Boy I hate crappy devs.
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MS needs to get some quality control on their games...I\'m beginning to appreciate Nintendo more and more for taking such a serious stance on quality over quantity...
I hope it gets delayed or even cancelled if it stays like this...considering that the reviewer isn\'t exagerating...
sorry, I\'m still bitter from Azurik
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Yes, I am worried about this game--it has been delayed and delayed and that is not a good sign. And considering the PC game is a resource hog and even then bogs down with a good system is a bad sign.
I\'ve never had much faith in Bethesda, and this isn\'t helping. Although, I\'ve scimmed many previews and they all say the graphics are great so who knows. I prefer console RPGs or the hack and slash variety (Balders Gate, Diablo, Dungeon Siege).
Azurik looked terrible from the trailer--I\'m not sure why anyone would buy that game.
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I bought it:( looking for a decent adventure game...I wasn\'t looking for the next Zelda or anything, just something to pass the time.
The graphics were okay, they were on par with just about anything out there but seemed dull. The areas were huge and everything seemed like a chore as you had to backtrack alot. That\'s also considering you could figure out what to do as the objectives had nothing to do with eachother. The enemies were countless and took around 5 hits for the small ones, 10-20 for the big...I took it back 3 days later and they would only give me 15$ for it!!! Needless to say I rent all games now before I buy...that\'s prevented me from buying such trash as Bloodwake and Gunvalkyrie...IMO.
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MS needs to get some quality control on their games...I\'m beginning to appreciate Nintendo more and more for taking such a serious stance on quality over quantity...
*hugs gamecube*
you got that right :cool:
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yeah, thats nice. too bad the PS2 couldnt even run it
-altered beast
i figured i would read his mind and beat him to the post, since this is about all her would say
/me looks at dust covered xbox, sighs, and looks away
oh, and PC\'s > consoles
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Originally posted by mm
-altered beast
i figured i would read his mind and beat him to the post, since this is about all her would say
Funny :laughing:
/me looks at dust covered xbox, sighs, and looks away
Still funny :laughing:
oh, and PC\'s > consoles
Ok, now your pushing it :p
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I am not too excited about this game, but it sounds like it will be good. I just hope these stupid pc developers get the game right. Because I don\'t play pc games:)
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^^^^ Well you needs to wake up son
I personally find buying PC games for console a stupid move. Thats just a waste of money. Consoles are for console games like fast paced fighting, run around action, driving (IMO) shoot\'em ups and some games with PC elements like strategy.
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Console or PC games, I\'d rather being playing them on my couch, in front of my HDTV in 5.1 dolby.
It\'s a much more enjoyable experience.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Console or PC games, I\'d rather being playing them on my couch, in front of my HDTV in 5.1 dolby.
It\'s a much more enjoyable experience.
I believe mm had this argument...
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anti-industries.com%2Fpics%2Fcomp.jpg&hash=0492119a94dffeade14a9aacdc89f8fd4d8b4dff)
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yeah something about playing at 1024x768x32 bit color 4x FSAA and 8x anistropy just gets me all aroused
like so
500k .gif
PC\'s > consoles (http://home.adelphia.net/~michealo/pc.gif)
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Glad I got the PC version, not that I wpuld have gotten the XB version anyways.
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The fact remains you are sitting upright in a computer chair, on a small monitor.
PC gaming is a solitary experience, I\'d rather be comfortable. I\'d rather being playing with a few friends, a 2-4 and take out pizza.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
The fact remains you are sitting upright in a computer chair, on a small monitor.
PC gaming is a solitary experience, I\'d rather be comfortable. I\'d rather being playing with a few friends, a 2-4 and take out pizza.
I got a couch in my computah room:D
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I heard that the combat was the worst part of this game. I was looking forward to making my X-box game collection 3 games. Now I\'m not so sure :(
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Originally posted by Watchdog
The fact remains you are sitting upright in a computer chair, on a small monitor.
PC gaming is a solitary experience, I\'d rather be comfortable. I\'d rather being playing with a few friends, a 2-4 and take out pizza.
Ehh have you ever tried playing a game like Ultima with friends around? It is not a social experience.
Please open your mind and realize that certain games are made for PC gaming and PC online gaming while certain ones are for console and more social experience.
Golden Eye did break the PC FPS mold, however, FPS online is really more PC territory. But sounds like having 4 ppl at home while having a 16 player online match is fun. Except for the 4 way split screen.
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Originally posted by LiteItUp
Ehh have you ever tried playing a game like Ultima with friends around? It is not a social experience.
Please open your mind and realize that certain games are made for PC gaming and PC online gaming while certain ones are for console and more social experience.
Golden Eye did break the PC FPS mold, however, FPS online is really more PC territory. But sounds like having 4 ppl at home while having a 16 player online match is fun. Except for the 4 way split screen.
Thats yur opinion I love my fps on a console. And would prefer them on a console. I don\'t need 16 ppl to enjoy a game 4 is good for me.
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Alas, the in-depth Construction Set that shipped with the PC version, an impressive feature that allowed the player to change various aspects of the game world, will be absent from the X-Box release. Bethesda stated that it was fundamentally impossible to create such a powerful editing tool for any X-Box game and that Microsoft is extremely protective of the X-box’s HDD. Allowing gamers to change code that is resident on the X-Box hard drive has a great potential to corrupt the unit, leading to game instability and possibly console death. So much for RPG Maker on the X-box! Even though The Elderscrolls III: Morrowind utilizes the X-Box hard drive, the game suffers from long initialization times as the data is streamed to disc.
Then exactly what is the xbox hardrive good for anyway, other then a glorfied memory card?
If you can\'t edit anything or create any content.. whats the point?
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It records what kind of games and audio cds you play and then when you connect to the "X-box online" network it will report all that info to M$.
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Originally posted by Chrono
Then exactly what is the xbox hardrive good for anyway, other then a glorfied memory card?
If you can\'t edit anything or create any content.. whats the point?
That\'s an interesting point. I\'ve read up on a few impressions and since this article is any indication that the HD isn\'t used wisely, me thinks that the problem on Xbox is main-memory as the worlds in Morrowwind are quite huge and require a lot of memory. Since Xbox can not stream very well, the HD would have to be used. Still something the developer would have to work on though.
And about PC games on console. Who cares? I\'d rather play my games in my livingroom rather than infront of a smaller sized monitor, buggy OS in the background etc.
Console > PC.
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"And about PC games on console. Who cares? I\'d rather play my games in my livingroom rather than infront of a smaller sized monitor, buggy OS in the background etc. "
Unfortunately you will be playing a dumbed down version of the game most of the time.
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Some games are meant to be played on PC.. (Most FPS IMHO and strategy games.. Simulators as well in most cases)
But I still cant find a PC game that tops GT3.. Nah Ill stick to my PS2! :)
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GT3 is definitely better.
Some games are meant for consoles and some are meant for PCs.
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Some are poor, and can\'t afford a $2000 comp to run games.
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if you are paying 2Gs for a new pc you are shopping in the wrong place my friend.
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Awoooooo more bad news for MicroFlops, and its a crying shame that the people that brought you.
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MCSCANXX32(01) + 0011CCXXX8A. the current application will be terminated
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are having such a dreadful time in the console market :rolleyes:
//me removes toung from cheek
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EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR....
I hate that messege, too bad I don\'t get it anymore.
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I can\'t wait anymore!! Somthing was done. So don\'t worry people this game is going to Rock!!! :D
http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/freemoney/loganinterview.html
"ARTICLE: "My EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW with an E3-goer who has PLAYED the FINAL VERSION of Morrowind on the Xbox!" (From May 29, 2002)
This is a HUGE scoop, my fellow Xboxers. Some of you may recall "Logan," one of the first posters and chatters here at Xbox Morrowind Central. He is a gamer, bartender, and advertiser who is working to develop a new television series in New Orleans called "Into the mix" which will center on various forms of male entertainment. One particular focus will be on technology and it\'s role in the entertainment industry, with a particular emphasis on video and computer games, as well as some applications software.
Well my friends, Logan managed to score a visit to the infamous and renouned Electronic Entertainment Expo, best known as E3. I can personaly vouch for Logan\'s honesty and credibility, and I assure you that this is legit. I am speaking to you all as a friend and a fellow gamer: I promise you that this guy is the real deal.
The following, are the result of a telephone interview I conducted with "Logan" recently. He was very enthusiastic about laying our fears to rest, but he was also honest and sometimes critical of the game. Suffice to say, what you are about to read is a very honest and telling accessment of the Xbox version of Morrowind, by a normal gamer like you and me.
Ben: So, what can you tell me about the release date?
Logan: Dude, let me tell you straight up. I asked the guy, "so when is this coming out?" and he looked me straight in the eye, and without hesitation, said "Ten days." This was on May 24th. So it falls right on the 4th.
Ben: So that\'s consistent with the current shipping date atleast. So, did you have any trouble finding the game?
Logan: Dude, I looked for it everywhere, but y\'know, people were like "what?" \'cause they didn\'t want me going to another booth.
Ben: You mean like "I dunno, but look here\'s Final Fantasy! Look at this!"
Logan: Yeah, exactly. So anyway, my friend finaly managed to find it, and he\'s all "I\'ll take you up there tomorrow if you want," and I\'m like "Man, I want to get up at 9:00 AM tomorrow and be there!"
Ben: Cool. So what was it like there?
Logan: Well, they were upstairs. So you couldn\'t find it unless you were looking. And they were in this room, and they had some cookies sitting out, which my friends thought were damn good too by the way.
(laughter).
Ben: So, I guess I should get down to the interview.
Logan: Oh, absolutely man. Just ask me anything you want, I want to quell peoples\' fears just as much as you do.
Ben: How was the frame rate?
Logan: Well, let me just say, you wouldn\'t even notice it. But I have to say this since everyone\'s going nuts over the frame rate. There is some popping, like brief skipping, but only in the most heavily populated towns. And they told me that this was the only time it happened, and this was as bad as it gets. And it wasn\'t bad at all to me. It\'s something you\'ll see and be like "Ok" y\'know, because you\'re probably gonna be looking for it. But it\'s not something that detracted from it at all.
Ben: And that\'s the only time it happens, in towns?
Logan: Only the most populated towns, yeah. Outside of towns you almost never see it. Very rarely. And like, these aren\'t loading by the way. They\'re like in Deus Ex for PS2, or like those little pauses in Halo, just more frequent. And it NEVER happens durring combat. Not at all.
Ben: That\'s pretty damn impressive, considering combat has allot going on.
Logan: Dude. It\'s incredible.
Ben: How about the water?
Logan: Oh my God, dude. It looks AMAZING. I like wanted to drink it. I\'m telling you, this game is incredible. I kept looking at the sky, and I just wanted to swim around and stuff. They were laughing at me. They could tell I wasn\'t in the bussiness \'cause my friend was all "Dude, go over there man, I want to see some combat," and I\'m like "Hold on, I just wanna look at the sky." They were all laughing at me. Todd Howard was there.
Ben: How\'s the draw distance?
Logan: G-r-e-a-t. You can see a really long way. It looked amazing. You get to a point where you can\'t get graphics much better or it won\'t look real anymore. And this game looks real dude.
Ben: How does it look compared to Halo?
Logan: Dude, the textures look more defined than Halo even, to me. You can see each individual blade of grass in some places. You can get right in on rocks and stuff and see how their surfaces curve, and aren\'t all just flat polygons and stuff. It\'s really really fluid looking.
Ben: How about the character models?
Logan: The character models, I have to say, was one thing that doesn\'t do it for me. But we all knew that anyway.
Ben: Like all jointed and stuff?
Logan: Yeah.
Ben: So it really looked great?
Logan: Man, my friend who came with me has the PC version. And he said it looked better on the Xbox than on his PC. Of course everything\'s a matter of opinion, but it makes me feel better knowing he said that.
Ben: So, did you happen to ask WHY they can\'t tell us anything?
Logan: Oh, man, they totaly skirted around that whole issue. They were like "Well, y\'know, we can\'t really talk about that, and blah blah." My friend even got in their face y\'know, \'cause we\'re just gamers, we aren\'t in the bussiness y\'know? And he was like y\'know, with every other game there\'s more info, like with Spiderman they were saying consistently, "April 24th" atleast, and they just said "Microsoft just really wants to keep this hush hush," or somethin\'. So I dunno. I have a feeling they have some strategy for this game, like Microsoft is really gonna push it or something. Like it\'s one of their big guns. This game could totally change the fortunes of the Xbox...and Bethesda. One thing he did tell me is that there ARE hooks in the game for plugins, and I think that\'s a really big deal for them, because he made it a point to tell me this, and right after that he asked me who I was, where I worked, and stuff. That\'s when I\'m like "Uh, thanks for your time man, I gotta jet" (laughter).
Ben: Hmmm. Weird. Do clouds really animate and stuff?
Logan: Oh yeah man, you can see \'em gathering and thickening. You can actualy see when the bad weather is coming.
Ben: So are the controls really like Halo?
Logan: Man, they\'re EXACTLY like Halo. This game was like MADE for this controller. It\'s PREFECT.
Ben: What is combat like?
Logan: Well the controls are the same all the time. Strafe, move, look around, y\'know. Exactly like Halo. Except I was so frantic and freakin\' out trying to win that I really didn\'t notice what was going on. I got my ass kicked man. (laughter). Oh, the AI distance is pretty long too! I was all the way across a bridge and a guard saw me and came running at me!
Ben: How about the menus and stuff?
Logan: That\'s really my only complaint, is that the menus were a little f****d up. It\'s not that they\'re bad, it\'s just that it seems like it would be easier on PC than with the controller, because there\'s a cursor. But that\'s just my opinion.
Ben: Oh, well that\'s not a problem for me. I used to use the Dreamcast controller all the time to move cursors around when I was online. (laughter).
Logan: Right, exactly, it\'s all a matter of opinion. It just seems like it was made for PC, that aspect of it.
Ben: What about the complaint about repetitive dialogue?
Logan: I think what it is, is that people have been spoiled by Everquest. If you\'re used to playing a game like that, I can see that. People are expecting an online game in a single player game, and it\'s not gonna happen. So stop thinking that, and stop expecting it to BE like that, and it\'s incredible.
Ben: What about the HDTV questions?
Logan: Y\'know, that\'s a good question, because that\'s one thing I wanna mention. They had every game on in the show running on flat plasma screen TVs...EXCEPT for Morrowind. It was running on a regular 32 inch TV set.
Ben: And it still looked that good, even compared to the PC version?
Logan: Exactly!
Ben: Well, my phone card just told me I have one minute left, so thanks allot man.
Logan: Ok, no problem. It was great talking to you, and I can\'t wait to see it on the site. If you need anything else just PM me, or give me or call, or whatever.
I\'d like to thank Logan very much for the interview, and I sincerely hope that this serves to put everyone\'s mind at ease about the game. Let\'s hope that shipping date holds!!! :)
P.S. Logan, if you see anything missrepresented or anything I forgot or left out, PM me on the official forums. Thanks again, man!
-Ben (aka bensf81)
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Another one:
http://www.xboxgamers.com/newspro/fullnews.cgi?newsid1023139094,36917,
Today we grabbed Pete Hines for a chat about Morrwind and why this major Xbox-Exclusive has been delayed.
[XBG] - Pete, with so much hype and anticipation surrounding this title, what can you tell us about the delay?
[Pete] - To be honest, not much. [Laughs] It\'s not gonna be that long.
[XBG] - Could you tell our fans what the delay is a result of?
[Pete] - This is how long it takes for a big game to go through the process it has to go through before it comes out. We can\'t talk about the process, or what it is, etc. We just aren\'t allowed to talk about any part of it. That\'s the deal. I think everyone assumes we\'ve been developing it continuously all along, and we haven\'t. It\'s been done. A little work here and there, but for the most part it\'s just a lot of waiting.
[XBG] - Is it anything serious?
[Pete] - No, nothing serious. It\'s just a long process, and it\'s extra long because our game is so freaking big that it has to be tested extensively.
[XBG] - Can you tell us if Bethesda are developing any other titles for the Xbox?
[Pete] - Nothing announced. Absolutely, we\'re doing Sea Dogs 2 for Xbox. We\'re now handling the Xbox development for that, so I guess that\'s one we\'ve announced.
[XBG] - So, you\'ve other secret Xbox titles?
[Pete] - Games that we haven\'t announced that have been OK\'d for Xbox development.
[XBG] - Ok - excellent. Thanks very much Pete.
[Pete] - You\'re welcome, gotta run!
So there you have it guys, We have just exclusively confirmed:
1 =- Morrowind will not take long until its released
2 =- The cause of the delay is nothing serious
3 =- Bethesda are developing several other titles for the xbox. One of which is Sea Dogs 2.
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even if that were true, doesn\'t match up to the PC version, not even close.
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
even if that were true, doesn\'t match up to the PC version, not even close.
That would depend how powerful the computer is...
How is it not even close? How far off is this port? Can he be considered a reliable source being that he hasn\'t played it on Xbox? Stay tuned to this thread for further insecurities of the PS2 fanboy...
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Love it Ginko.
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Love it Ginko.
starts to blush
ah, it was nothing...:cool:
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I swear you 2 are in love.. ;)
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You wouldn\'t even have to play the X-Box version, that 733 mhz(correct me if I\'m wrong), is showing it\'s age already, no console at the point will surpass the PC. So unless your running a computer from Pre-98, I\'d say your in good shape. Oh that\'s right, computers are upgradable.:rolleyes:
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733mhz is correct
its also a celeron chip :P
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Originally posted by mm
733mhz is correct
its also a celeron chip :P
man, X-Box owners got cheated.
XB Fanboy: Whatchu talkin\' about, yuk yuk, I got me one of dem P5\'s in my X-Box.
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*cowers behind his 433 celeron PC*
*with no video card*
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You can\'t compare PC and console processors--damn, Billy, you really need some common sense.
And because I think you\'re an complete idiot, I\'ll continue. No one would bother upgrading a pre-98 computer. Tell me how the xbox processor is showing its age compared to GC and PS2?
your=possessive
eg. Your head has no brains in it.
you\'re=you are
eg. You\'re a brainless person.
And it\'s not a celeron. See, mm, it\'s these kinds of low brow, fanboyish statements that are making many people here think you\'re a fanboy.
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How on earth can you call yourself Bobs_Hardware?
:)
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Here\'s some Xbox Hardware info. :D
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1561&p=1
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Originally posted by pstwo
Here\'s some Xbox Hardware info. :D
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1561&p=1
That was wonderful.:yawn:
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Originally posted by Watchdog
How on earth can you call yourself Bobs_Hardware?
:)
Well.. *scoff* Hardware is my surname thank you very much
(its not really)
Bobs is just the nickname
eg. Bobs sure is handsome (not to mention that penis)
where as Bob\'s would represent ownership and coupled with Hardware would represent my hardware
eg. "This is Bob\'s Hardware.. back off punk"
:rolleyes:
its\' oblivious my English, skills are far superior to; you?
;):p:p
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Yes it would seem so...I just thought you left out the \' for stylistic purposes.
I consider myself repremanded.
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awww Watchdog, i was just joking around :shy: dont be..OH. MY. GOD. IVE TURNED INTO OOSEVEN!
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Originally posted by Watchdog
Yes it would seem so...I just thought you left out the \' for stylistic purposes.
I consider myself repremanded.
Yo xbox fanboy. Isnt Xbox supposed to be this new amazing graphical machine that is supposed to match PC gaming. I mean besides the fact that this thing has loading time which is a joke, when GC barely has any loading time, the way that Morrowind turned out is an embarassment.
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Originally posted by smoke\'emtrees
Yo xbox fanboy. Isnt Xbox supposed to be this new amazing graphical machine that is supposed to match PC gaming. I mean besides the fact that this thing has loading time which is a joke, when GC barely has any loading time, the way that Morrowind turned out is an embarassment.
Watchdog is a respected member while you on the other hand.:rolleyes:
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Yeah, Bob, I knew you were joking. I was just having fun.
Loading times? Are you saying Rogue Squad. has short load times? Here\'s another: go into your local EB and ask them to put Spiderman in all three systems; what you\'ll find is that the xbox loads faster, looks better, and has none of the slowdown of the other two versions.
:rolleyes:
This is of course only one game, but when you speak in absolutes, you end up looking absolutely stupid.
But wait...there\'s more.
Morrowind isn\'t out on the xbox you stu...oh, I\'m sorry, Miss Cleo, I mistook you for some one who couldn\'t tell the future.
:rolleyes:
Where do these guys come from?
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watchdog, watch where you step bro
http://www.vanshardware.com/articles/2001/november/011116_Xbox/011116_Xbox.htm
For many months, the official data on the Xbox website only stated that its CPU would be a 733 MHz Intel part. As we can see in the photo below, it appears that the CPU is simply a 733 MHz BGA Mobile Celeron mounted directly to the motherboard
whats this i see, a 128k cache? and not 256k?
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vanshardware.com%2Farticles%2F2001%2Fnovember%2F011116_Xbox%2FCPU.jpg&hash=b3ca3ed5477c088798af925fb3956d7de2670a3f)
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Originally posted by Bozco
Watchdog is a respected member...
That\'s funny... for a second I thought you meant it.
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http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1561&p=1
not a celeron.
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here\'s the just of what anandtech says
The CPU that powers the Xbox is a Coppermine based Pentium III with only 128KB L2 cache. While this would make many think that the processor is indeed a Celeron, one of the key performance factors of the Pentium III that is lost in the Celeron core was left intact for this core. The Coppermine core was left with an 8-way set associative L2 cache instead of the 4-way set associative cache of the Celeron. Based on what we\'ve seen with the Coppermine and Coppermine128 (Celeron) cores we estimate that the 8-way set associative L2 cache gives this particular core a 10% performance advantage over the Coppermine128 core of the Celeron.
so which site do we believe?
one says its a celeron, the other says its not
the chip STILL possesses a 128k cache, which = celeron based to me
and how cheated do we feel to gain 10% performance to save m$ construction costs :rolleyes:
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It\'s a fanboy thing to say anyway--who cares what the chip is called (not a celeron)? I wouldn\'t care if it\'s called a Burger King chip--the xbox outperforms any other console on the market today.
It gets the job done. Beyond that I could care less. To make a point that it\'s a celeron, and wave it around like it\'s a deathknell for xbox and a great victory for other consoles is ridiculous. What point are you trying to make? And why does it matter to you what chip it is? I for one never see the inside of my xbox whilst playing, do you?
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
You wouldn\'t even have to play the X-Box version, that 733 mhz(correct me if I\'m wrong), is showing it\'s age already, no console at the point will surpass the PC. So unless your running a computer from Pre-98, I\'d say your in good shape. Oh that\'s right, computers are upgradable.:rolleyes:
No, no, no Billy...I asked you how far off of a port it is? You said not even close, which brings me to believe you have played or have enough info to determine just how this port turned out...
Please share with us...:bounce:
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wtf man, im not waving poop around
i merely stated that it is just a celeron processor, and you take personal offense? this is exactly why were changing the format of CD forum.
a 733mhz restricted coppermine chip was a mistake, they could have went with a MUCH faster cpu, and you know it.
i see yer frustrated and im sorry, but you cant deny what they did was for cost control, and in the long run, it will limit what the xbox can do.
ill let someone else tell you why the EE chip > coppermine
the xbox outperforms any other console on the market today.
it also came out two years after the PS2, so what should we expect? i certainly dont deny the xbox isnt a beast, but its nowhere near the "ps2 killah" you wish it was
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Originally posted by mm
this is exactly why were changing the format of CD forum
What\'s going on?
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http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22034
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X-Box version = Chugfest 2002
PC Version = smooth sailing, for those who meet requirements.
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Again Billy, you\'ve never played it.
FYI: I\'m not frustrated.
And, also, of course they could have put a 2ghz processor in there. They could have put a 2 gig HD, taken out the nic card, put in 2 controller ports with 2 foot long cords, taken away DVD compatibility, nixed progressive scan, 5.1 and HDTV support. They drew lines and I think they did a fine job.
I didn\'t want to pay $800 for a console, it was a cost cutting measure, but every console maker goes through that sort of process. They looked at the xbox and knew it was more advanced than their competitors and felt no need to go over board and loose more money.
You think they\'d sell more if they had a true pentium chip in there clocked at 1 ghz? Or if they would have stuck in an AMD? No, people don\'t care about specs, people care about performance, and the xbox out performs any console on the planet.
MS is a business, and I\'m pretty sure they did more research into the matter than we have. Sure, I would love to have a 2 ghz chip in there, but I wouldn\'t want to pay for it. This console has a shelf life of 4-5 years, no sense going over board.
The same could be said about the PS2 and its paltry memory, but why bother?
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wasnt palty two years ago huh?
and the xbox out performs any console on the planet.
and this means what anymore?
what sells more, a ferarri or a cavalier?
i wonder what youll be saying 6 months from now when/if the xbox is still being trounced by PS2
when did u become the personal defender of m$?
i can put "Captain XBOX" as yer user title it will make u feel more important
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Originally posted by Watchdog
I consider myself repremanded.
You know, I really did find it funny how you corrected Billy for his grammar, yet you went on and made spelling errors.
Just havin fun ;)
But what\'s even more funny is that I wrote \'grammer\' instead of \'grammar\' and had to fix my own mistake :mad:
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Originally posted by mm
here\'s the just of what anandtech says
so which site do we believe?
one says its a celeron, the other says its not
the chip STILL possesses a 128k cache, which = celeron based to me
and how cheated do we feel to gain 10% performance to save m$ construction costs :rolleyes:
mm, which with you and celerons?:D
AFAIK, that "celeron" has a 8-way associative cache, unlike a real celeron w/ 4-way associative cache. Plus with a 133 FSB, the speed difference is that much from a full PIII. Look at it from a console\'s point view. A console won\'t be using a lot of complex sets of instructions that would really require a 256k cache. The difference should be minimum. Besides, like Watchdog side, MS had to draw the line [for costs] at some point.
a 733mhz restricted coppermine chip was a mistake, they could have went with a MUCH faster cpu, and you know it.
i see yer frustrated and im sorry, but you cant deny what they did was for cost control, and in the long run, it will limit what the xbox can do.
ill let someone else tell you why the EE chip > coppermine
All the consoles have a weak point somewhere. GC & DC lacked flexibility IIRC. The PS2 may have the most potent CPU, but it also has the weakest GPU, at least when textures are concerned. Something about only half its pipelines have TMUs and a 1.2 GB/s connection.
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why do people keep thinking im comparing the xbox to the PS2, OR saying one is better than the other
i keep telling myself to put a disclaimer in my sig
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Originally posted by mm
why do people keep thinking im comparing the xbox to the PS2, OR saying one is better than the other
i keep telling myself to put a disclaimer in my sig
I\'m just trying to say that you shouldn\'t bash the Xbox for it\'s "celeron". It\'s a decent chip.
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yeah real decent.....for me to poop on!
m$ cut a corner that shouldnt be cut
who\'s to blame for the mockery that morrowind turned out to be?
the dev? the xbox is the easiest console ever to develop for.
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^
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Let\'s see if Ginko responds differently to a different person.
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ginko? im putting on two pairs of underwear before watchdog crawls up my butt again
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Yeah, I rented Morrowind tonight (was surprised to see it there).
Framerate is at a pretty consistent 30, but the draw in is absolutely terrible. The fog is there to hide it, but it does a ****ty job of it. There are also a lot of those split second (literally) pauses for caching that are annoying and give me a headache. Animation is stiff. And at no point in the game have I stopped and admired the graphics. They look just like the PC screens, but with a very short draw distence.
Loading a saved game is too long a wait.
I don\'t know what the problem is, the graphics aren\'t great, the areas aren\'t that large, the textures range from average to poor, but the engine is terrible. Especially compared to the other games out there.
I like the gameplay though--it\'s basically an old time PC RPG.
But what\'s all that crap about the character creation model that was supposed to be so great? It\'s horrible, takes too long, it\'s new at all. I don\'t know why they put a NDA on it, and made it out to be so revolutionary.
It\'s also one of those games that have you, the mighty warrior, pitted against grubs and rats for the beginning of the game. What an ego blow that is. What ever happened to goblins and orcs?
Also, I wish there was some sort of target lock on, because fighting becomes difficult in the clutch.
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*gasp* watchdog? is this yer "good" twin? :P
yeah, i also got it from work, and promptly drove back and got WSB2003 instead
great game, but boring to play
felt like the computer controls 75% of yer fielding
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Considering the job that the Xbox\'s CPU is given, it\'s more than decent.
Originally posted by mm
who\'s to blame for the mockery that morrowind turned out to be?
the dev?
Yes. :) Please correct me if I\'m wrong, but isn\'t this game still kind of chugging(key words: kind of) on even high end CPUs with patches/mods?
the xbox is the easiest console ever to develop for.
Easy? Yes. Easiest? No. That\'s the GCN.
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WSB is stellar. I\'m picking that and an xbox up for my brother\'s birthday (he loves Sega and baseball).
Morrowind, I wasn\'t really expecting much. If they would have done half, twice as good it would be worth it, but we don\'t get that.
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yeah, you xbox fans get *edited for content*
i wouldnt call WSB2003 steller
its a great baseball game thats marred by lack of control
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Lack of control is only there for the out fielders. You still have to do it, but they make it as it should be: easy. It\'s still possible to miss a pop fly, but when someone comes over to play, they shouldn\'t have trouble fielding with the Yankees.
Fielding is easy in baseball, and it should be easy in baseball games. The liners and gap flies are still tough to make, as they should be.
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so why should they make it easy?
like they did with tagging in JGRF?
as with any baseball game today (and in real life)
its a home run fest
i\'ll take high heat baseball anyday
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They should make it easy, because it is easy. Fielders don\'t miss pop flies.
Play on the toughest difficulty and you won\'t be hitting the homers with every batter.
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easy does not equal practically doing it for you, same problem crippled WSB on the DC
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They don\'t do it for you, you are exaggerating. The Dc version literally did it for you, this one doesn\'t, not even close.
But take off all those batting cheats and you\'ll have a realistic chance to hit a homer. The balance is perfect.
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no cheats here
im not exaggerating, you only have to take a few steps with the fielders to get in the vacinity of the ball icon and then the computer takes over. not far from the DC one at all
its not like i have to press a button to catch the ball
just get somewhere near where its gonna land and *presto*
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MM and Watchdog, you guys really do love gettin on each other huh? It makes for good read, and it\'s nice hearing decent perspectives from both sides of the argument.
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Enough of this WSB. Get back to Morrowind and why it sucks.
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Great review!! Getting my copy Friday! mm, are you getting Morrowind? :D
Got my copy today too, and a have a PC version to compare too.
After all the choppy framerate, reduced textures, reduced poly model talk around here, my expectations were LOW.
Happy to say, no worries.
Ill compare to my PC, a 850-P3, 384 Ram and a GF2.
Framerate = MUCH smoother than my PC. I quickly went to one of the worst towns to try it out. Yes, it seems slightly below 30fps, yes it pause loads more often than the PC version, but it is not stuttery/jerkie like my PC @ 640x480, so im very pleased, and it is very playable. My pc runs this town aywhere from 10 to 15 FPS. The xbox version is much higher, that much I can tell.
Textures = Whoever said the textures were scaled down were full of it. They are the same. I compared the two side by side. Heck, the Xbox version seems to have richer colors.
Reduced Poly models = No, not even. The character models are the same as the PC (not saying the pcs were great).
The xbox lighting is alot better looking than the GF2 lighting, more real looking. Plus I had to turn off shadows on the PC version, it became a near slide show with full shadows on, the xbox version has them out at full.
Now it does seem to have the fog pulled in a little tighter though. Seems like you can see the objects at the same distance as the full out PC setting, but you start seeing more details sooner on the PC than before the X. If I had to guess, maybe a 10\' difference in the detail kick-in.
OH and the menu system is MUCH, MUCH better than the PC version. Simple and straight forward, but keeping all the info. With as much reading as this game has, the Menu system on the X will make the game more enjoyable for me.
Very glad I bought it!
tech itch: "you have no clue what a good/bad frame rate is"
This game might not have a good framerate compared to other Xbox games, but compared to the PC version its good, you need a GF4, a good CPU and lotsa rams to have the framerate this smooth.
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morrowinn? on xbox? HECK NO!
i didnt even like the boring PC version
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Originally posted by EmperorRob
Enough of this WSB. Get back to Morrowind and why it sucks.
OH i know
//me Points to the X Flops sticker on the Morrowind game Box
Nuff said :D
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pstwo, I don\'t think you realize how big of a deal framerates are. Morrowind on X-Box will never succed now because of that
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a game like morrowind or any FPS absolutely needs to have minimum 30 fps locked
its pitiful if they cant even achieve that
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Yes it is pitiful. If the game was a standout, it might make it worth playing, but as it is, it\'s a PC RPG. There is no reason the framerate should be as bad as it is (PC or xbox). Hell, they could have used the Halo engine and done a much better job. They could have used the new Unreal engine, they could have hired decent programmers. Oh well, I\'m glad I didn\'t buy it.
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so the xbox itself is in NO way, shape , or form to be held accountable for ANY of the limitations that cripple morrowind?
its entirely the devs fault?
baldur\'s gate was a PC:RPG and look how it turned out
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What in Gods name is that!!!! That set up rules!!! I am familiar with most of the stuff in the picture except for the stuff on the left. Is that a server of some sort? I think that picture has motivated me to reorganize my computer room LOL. I have 2 comps with a gateway router and wires going everywhere! Lastly, where did that picture come from???
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i posted that pic originally
it came from hardopc\'s forums
most of the stuff on the left is for audio purposes and for server networking
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Have you played Baulder\'s Gate for PC? I can tell you haven\'t--they are COMPLETELY different games in terms of styles and look. And handling a direct port of the PC version of Baulder\'s gate would be easy because the areas are small, it\'s not a 3D perspective, and there is lots of opportunity to load in sections.
Yes, I can say it is the devs, by all accounts, it bogs down all but the mightiest of PCs
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Morrowind on the Xbox is worse than on the PC. I have a PIII 866 512 MB RAM and a GeForce 2 64mb vid card and I have played both. It is worse on the Xbox, but then again its not too great on the PC either. Don\'t get me wrong, I love the game (so much better than EQ), but the constant drop in fps and the pop up are bad on both the console and the PC. Other than the graphic glitches the game really is fun. If you have your choice - Xbox version or the PC version - go with the PC. Not only can you add plugins and mod stuff, but the game runs "smoother" than on the console (providing you meet the system requirements).
Come to think of it, the only 2 RPG\'s I have ever wanted to play on a console are Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance and FFX. Other than that I am the type of person that believes certain genres belong in certain places ie. RPG\'s - PC, Sports and Fighting - Consoles, etc...