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Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Rick on June 03, 2002, 01:19:48 PM

Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Rick on June 03, 2002, 01:19:48 PM
My mate just got Rallisport challenge for his Xbox, has anyone else experienced shocking load times, or do you think he just got a dodgy copy? I havent see it for myself yet, but he says the actual stages take less time than it does to load them.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 03, 2002, 02:48:21 PM
I wouldn\'t go that far, but there are some long waits.  It\'s an awesome game though.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: fastson on June 03, 2002, 02:59:18 PM
Odd..

GT3 loadtimes are only a few seconds.. Maybe 5-10.

Though WRC has some really bad loadtimes.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Bozco on June 03, 2002, 03:09:50 PM
They do take a decent time to load but they look amazing.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 03, 2002, 07:20:17 PM
once you adjust to the horrendous blur
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 04, 2002, 06:42:16 AM
There is no horrendous blur.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 04, 2002, 07:22:28 AM
you can lie to me bro, i dont mind
 but dont lie to yerself, please
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 04, 2002, 12:35:11 PM
you can lie to me bro, i dont mind
but dont lie to yerself, please
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: NVIDIA256 on June 04, 2002, 01:07:27 PM
Quote
once you adjust to the horrendous blur




Are you referring to the fact of the game being presented in 600x480 res?
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 04, 2002, 05:26:01 PM
sigh, im almost sick of talking about this

you CANNOT rationaly tell me that there isnt blue in rallisport
look at the track in front of yer car.  they used bumpmapping on the track besides yer car, but NOT ANYWHERE IN FRONT

example A.
look at the ground next the passenger door
the bumpmapping DIES, and the rest of the track is blurred out
like they never heard of a Z-buffer
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xengamers.com%2Fdocs%2Fnews%2Felements%2Ffiles%2Frsc26.jpg&hash=68877fdb8f5489132b4ed8440dd667eb9836eabf)

look at any pic in this ancient thread

http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19235&highlight=rallisport+and+blur

im gonna assume you know damn well rallisport overuses blue and yer just being watchdog  :)
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: nonamer on June 04, 2002, 06:36:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
sigh, im almost sick of talking about this

you CANNOT rationaly tell me that there isnt blue in rallisport
look at the track in front of yer car.  they used bumpmapping on the track besides yer car, but NOT ANYWHERE IN FRONT

example A.
look at the ground next the passenger door
the bumpmapping DIES, and the rest of the track is blurred out
like they never heard of a Z-buffer
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xengamers.com%2Fdocs%2Fnews%2Felements%2Ffiles%2Frsc26.jpg&hash=68877fdb8f5489132b4ed8440dd667eb9836eabf)

look at any pic in this ancient thread

http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19235&highlight=rallisport+and+blur

im gonna assume you know damn well rallisport overuses blue and yer just being watchdog  :)


Blur? I don\'t see any, or at least not a very noticable amount. Blur on this game seems like a fishing trip story.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 04, 2002, 06:38:14 PM
GRRRRRRRRRRRR!  do i have to draw a circle around it?


*head explodes*
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 04, 2002, 06:44:00 PM
mm it\'s field perspective--every game should have it in.  You should not be able to notice every little bump on the road as far as you can see.  It\'s not a deficiency in the graphics engine, it\'s a realistic touch.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 04, 2002, 06:50:22 PM
so they add the blue in for a frickin purpose?
oh i guess ive had it wrong all these years.  turok had fog for "artistic interpretation"  :rolleyes:

know what, nevermind
if you guys are perfectly happy accepting these limitations, then thats fine.  if you totally admit that you dont see it then its futile for me to try and help you guys expect more
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 04, 2002, 07:05:14 PM
I hope you mean blur not blue...anyway.

I see what you are referring to, but it\'s not a limitation.  You are the only one that has a problem with that--it\'s never been mentioned in a review anywhere.  In fact, RSC has been said to have some of the best graphics to date.

Yet you\'re not impressed...

I know it\'s fashionable to pick on the xbox and tear down every  good game in this place, so this kind of stuff is expected, I suppose.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: 182Ways on June 04, 2002, 07:23:57 PM
Question.

mm, are you sure the "bumpmapping" in that shot isn\'t actually particle effects?  It looks more like snow being kicked up by the back tires of the car.

That might explain a lot.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 04, 2002, 07:27:01 PM
/me borrows and puts on robotic slave helmet

RALLISPORT IS GREAT FUN!
THE GRAPHICS ARE STUPENDOUS!
XBOX IS UBER GOD!

uNf! uNf!


jebus guys, are we looking at different pictures?
*it must just be my eyes then
/me shakes head in disbelief
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: nataku on June 04, 2002, 07:32:25 PM
Geeze guys, you don\'t see it?

I see what you\'re talking about, mm.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 04, 2002, 07:42:11 PM
Yes, you are right mm, it\'s all blurry--EVERY other reputable publication is wrong when they herald this a very high water mark in terms of graphics.

Because why shouldn\'t we believe you, it\'s not like you trash the xbox everyday in every thread possible.  It\'s not like that at all.  Fact is you never have anything negative to say about the xbox and its capabilities, we should take your words are gospel.

I too can shake my head in disbelief and use sarcasm to proove a point.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: nonamer on June 04, 2002, 07:58:35 PM
Hmmm, when you look real closely it appears to be a LOD (level of detail) reduction method, same stuff seem on almost every 3d game made today. It\'s probably the developer\'s considering the effect is minimal and few people (expect mm:rolleyes::D) pay attention to that stuff.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 05, 2002, 02:21:27 AM
its far from mimimal

watch, you know damn well i dont bash the xbox in every post, and i\'m ever more prone to bash the PS2.  you missed me in my n64 days, ask Eik about that

its not about taking my word for gospel, its about realization
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Zolar on June 05, 2002, 02:26:23 AM
GT3 graphics aren\'t exactly jaw dropping!  They look good, but I was expecting more since they hyped this game so much.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Mr. Kennedy on June 05, 2002, 03:47:36 AM
GT3 was great, especially since there was no blur... GT4 will be... well must be mindblowing.

Rallisport textures look like poop.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: ooseven on June 05, 2002, 04:04:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
GT3 was great, especially since there was no blur... GT4 will be... well must be mindblowing.

Rallisport textures look like poop.


and Rallisport doesn\'t have the "Elusive X factor “ that Gran Turismo has......
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: seven on June 05, 2002, 08:00:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by nonamer
Hmmm, when you look real closely it appears to be a LOD (level of detail) reduction method, same stuff seem on almost every 3d game made today. It\'s probably the developer\'s considering the effect is minimal and few people (expect mm:rolleyes::D) pay attention to that stuff.


You guys are quite amusing. Bash or not, who cares - mm backed up his statement with facts. Can\'t argue that. Even if you guys don\'t see it as bad, the fact remains that it is there and horrendous.

And nonamer, don\'t know what you\'re trying with your "LOD" arguement, but I can look outside the window now and thank god my eyes don\'t loose that detail as presented in Rallisport. Follow the link to the other screens mm posted and you\'ll see yetr another example of the blur (in the desert).

Well, guess if it doesn\'t bother you, fine - but there\'s no denying it\'s there.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Ginko on June 05, 2002, 08:05:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by seven


You guys are quite amusing. Bash or not, who cares - mm backed up his statement with facts. Can\'t argue that. Even if you guys don\'t see it as bad, the fact remains that it is there and horrendous.

And nonamer, don\'t know what you\'re trying with your "LOD" arguement, but I can look outside the window now and thank god my eyes don\'t loose that detail as presented in Rallisport. Follow the link to the other screens mm posted and you\'ll see yetr another example of the blur (in the desert).

Well, guess if it doesn\'t bother you, fine - but there\'s no denying it\'s there.


I never noticed it until now...it\'s alot easier to see in pics than it is while playing...
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: seven on June 05, 2002, 08:08:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ginko


I never noticed it until now...it\'s alot easier to see in pics than it is while playing...


Yeah, the same with jaggies to btw. But it\'s there and undeniable. I did notice it though when I played it and did find it quite distracting because that\'s the place you look when driving.

BTW; nice avatar Ginko. ;) It will take some time to get used to it though...
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: QuDDus on June 05, 2002, 10:22:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
/me borrows and puts on robotic slave helmet

RALLISPORT IS GREAT FUN!
THE GRAPHICS ARE STUPENDOUS!
XBOX IS UBER GOD!

uNf! uNf!


jebus guys, are we looking at different pictures?
*it must just be my eyes then
/me shakes head in disbelief


RALLISPORT IS GREAT. That is just plain fun:) You know MM it\'s just you find something wrong with everything. The game looks beautiful, and your jawing at something nobody seems to see but yurself.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 05, 2002, 10:34:39 AM
you see it too qudd, its just that now you got little green x\'s for pupils so you refuse to see it

oh, and the A.I. is retarded in rallisport

you gonna deny that too?
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Bobs_Hardware on June 05, 2002, 10:45:54 AM
the AI is retarded in most racing games

:)
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: rastalant on June 05, 2002, 10:48:33 AM
Rallisport Challenge is one of the best racers to date.  Probably the best rally game yet of course in my opinion.:)
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 05, 2002, 10:51:57 AM
i can name several PC rally titles that put rallisport to an absolute pitifull shame

i would rather play GT3 rally mode, if we\'re sticking to consoles

it doesnt matter to me that rallisport is on xbox, its HIGHLY overrated, thats my entire point
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: rastalant on June 05, 2002, 11:00:30 AM
Go head mm name some.;)
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 05, 2002, 11:10:30 AM
colin mcrae 2
rally championship

there\'s two, no need to continue
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: AlteredBeast on June 05, 2002, 11:13:50 AM
hahah!! Rallisport is a blurry mess because the road in front of you loses bumpmapping, while everything else remains VERY clear!?!?! hahahaha. You guys kill me, I am just waiting for fastson to stick his head in and agree with the rest of you fanboys. Where\'s Chrono? Maybe he checked this thread early and saw that there was no bashing going on yet? He will make an appearance sooner or later agreeing about this "massive, distracting blur" it must really take away from the gameplay on EVERY PS2 game to date because none give you the pleasure of ANY bumpmapping at all. In fact, not just the ground is blurry in PS2 rally games, EVERYTHING is! woohoo!!

mm, DON\'T PULL THESE STUPID DOUBLE STANDARDS!! Rallisport has terrible AI, then you go on to say you would rather play GT3\'s rally mode? hahahaha, GT3...where everyone drives in straight, defined paths! AT least in RSC, cars try and get around you. If this game were on PS2, you guys would praise it to high heaven saying how great the graphics are, and such.

this thread can be summed up in one sentence - People are crying about something so miniscule because there is nothing else to whine about in this game that happens to be on XBox.


Eric Jacob
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Mr. Kennedy on June 05, 2002, 11:30:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AlteredBeast
hahah!! Rallisport is a blurry mess because the road in front of you loses bumpmapping, while everything else remains VERY clear!?!?! hahahaha. You guys kill me, I am just waiting for fastson to stick his head in and agree with the rest of you fanboys. Where\'s Chrono? Maybe he checked this thread early and saw that there was no bashing going on yet? He will make an appearance sooner or later agreeing about this "massive, distracting blur" it must really take away from the gameplay on EVERY PS2 game to date because none give you the pleasure of ANY bumpmapping at all. In fact, not just the ground is blurry in PS2 rally games, EVERYTHING is! woohoo!!

mm, DON\'T PULL THESE STUPID DOUBLE STANDARDS!! Rallisport has terrible AI, then you go on to say you would rather play GT3\'s rally mode? hahahaha, GT3...where everyone drives in straight, defined paths! AT least in RSC, cars try and get around you. If this game were on PS2, you guys would praise it to high heaven saying how great the graphics are, and such.

this thread can be summed up in one sentence - People are crying about something so miniscule because there is nothing else to whine about in this game that happens to be on XBox.


Eric Jacob


oh dip,

there goes the neighborhood.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: nonamer on June 05, 2002, 11:49:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by seven


You guys are quite amusing. Bash or not, who cares - mm backed up his statement with facts. Can\'t argue that. Even if you guys don\'t see it as bad, the fact remains that it is there and horrendous.


In your opinion yes. It\'s there but horrendous?

Quote
And nonamer, don\'t know what you\'re trying with your "LOD" arguement, but I can look outside the window now and thank god my eyes don\'t loose that detail as presented in Rallisport. Follow the link to the other screens mm posted and you\'ll see yetr another example of the blur (in the desert).[/b]


In case you don\'t understand LOD, LOD is used so thatthings far away don\'t eat up a lot of power to draw them. For example, trees miles away with 5000+ polygons would be a waste since they would only fill up a single pixel each. A LOD system would reduce that to say, one polygon w/ one texture at most. How it\'s defined is completely up to the developer to decide because it is not based on system power.

Quote
Well, guess if it doesn\'t bother you, fine - but there\'s no denying it\'s there. [/B]


That\'s pretty much my point. It\'s there but, how many people are bothered by it?

Quote
BY mm

i can name several PC rally titles that put rallisport to an absolute pitifull shame

i would rather play GT3 rally mode, if we\'re sticking to consoles

it doesnt matter to me that rallisport is on xbox, its HIGHLY overrated, thats my entire point
[/b]

Well no ones saying that it\'s greatest game in the world. I\'m saying that the "blur" is "overrated".:p

Quote

its not about taking my word for gospel, its about realization
[/b]

You act as if we should.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 05, 2002, 12:42:27 PM
No you don\'t look out the window and miss details, but the perspective is taken from close to the ground, behind the car.

So why doesn\'t everyone get on there hands and knees, and look even 10 feet in the distence.  You\'ll notice things that are right under your nose and loose details as you get further away.

You guys have a double standard and that\'s a fact.  This game would not get this kind of treatment if it were a PS2.  And no, mm, you don\'t do this to all consoles.  I haven\'t ever heard you bring up any PS2 game for it\'s graphical problems.  It\'s a double standard, and that\'s it.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Ashford on June 05, 2002, 02:19:47 PM
You\'re wrong...

mm doesn\'t find anything wrong with Shenmue...

Except that it will never be on DC anymore...

:nut:
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Mr. Kennedy on June 05, 2002, 02:58:30 PM
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uncleclive.co.uk%2FIMAGES%2Fxboxvader.jpg&hash=5a72db99b50550c712b8f94ea02308538f492855)
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Rick on June 05, 2002, 03:27:01 PM
Well, didnt expect this to go this far!!!

So, should each stage take 2 mins to load? Should I get my mate to return his copy? I dont care bout blur, or of its good, just the load times!!
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 05, 2002, 05:01:46 PM
altered = gone off deep end  (look for xbox sales while yer down there)

another point, why are xbox zealots so HOSTILE?  is it insecurity?
i dont get it

no-namer, it comes down to this
i say wtf i like

there is a little button called "ignore" in everyone\'s userCP if they dont like what i say

i know who my friends are on this forum, and the rest can piss right off

some of you guys take this xbox -vs- Ps2 thing WAY too far, ESPECIALLY those that dont own both

and they fact that they have the audacity to call ME a hypocrite?!
well, peewee said it best, "takes one to know one"
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Ryu on June 05, 2002, 05:20:16 PM
Quote
there is a little button called "ignore" in everyone\'s userCP if they dont like what i say


As far as I know, and this was awhile ago, I\'m pretty sure you can\'t put admins and mods on ignore.  Does somebody know for sure?
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 05, 2002, 06:31:07 PM
regardless, i dont have a personal problem with ANYONE here, so i should get the same treatment, whether im an admin or not.

so what i bash the xbox?  i bash every console (except by beloved DC), and anyone is a fool to think otherwise.  i dont bash the PS2 as mich as xbox?  then that means you werent here when PS2 launched and the DC was declining.

im too old and too bitter to accept console hardware shortcomings and lazy devs.  i\'ll pick out the most minute flaws in any game and shove them too the front of the line.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Mr. Kennedy on June 05, 2002, 07:01:31 PM
Don\'t mind me, I\'m just here for the humor.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: PahnCrD on June 05, 2002, 07:11:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
Don\'t mind me, I\'m just here for the humor.



Yeah... well i am here for the "Punch and Pie"... and the "Spam" of course.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 05, 2002, 07:35:35 PM
http://mediaviewer.ign.com/ignMediaPage.jsp?channel_id=73&object_id=17064&adtag=network%3Dign%26site%3Dxboxviewer%26pagetype%3Darticle&page_title=Hands+On+Colin+McRae+3



Look there and you\'ll find of all things the dreaded blur?!?!  But, you must be thinking, this is Colin McRae that can\'t be possible, but it is, and I\'ll say again, it\'s intentional.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: smoke'emtrees on June 05, 2002, 08:03:00 PM
Ok RalliSport is a great game but IMO it is almost impossible to touch GT series.  Forget the actual racing aspect.  GT has so many different races and cups.  Plus you cannot even compare the amount of cars and modifications you can do.

I remember ppl would talk about their GT cars like they were real cars.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: luckee on June 05, 2002, 08:10:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by smoke\'emtrees
Ok RalliSport is a great game but IMO it is almost impossible to touch GT series.  Forget the actual racing aspect.  GT has so many different races and cups.  Plus you cannot even compare the amount of cars and modifications you can do.

I remember ppl would talk about their GT cars like they were real cars.


Well, technically, they are real cars :) Based on anyway ;)
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 06, 2002, 02:37:48 AM
lol, watch

you linked to ANOTHER xbox game

of course its gonna have blur

you want me to take some screenshots of colin mcrae 2 on my PC?

or are you tired of beating the dead horse?

i cant believe you think that is intentional, ROFL!
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 06, 2002, 05:36:24 AM
So the PC is the measuring stick?

Those are PS2 screens too--that\'s all that\'s been released, they\'re the same screens for both systems.

Certainly there are truck loads of screens you could show of GC and PS2 games.

Look at the blur:

http://mediaviewer.ign.com/ignMediaPage.jsp?media_id=1275570&object_id=13846&channel_id=70&page_title=Gran+Turismo+3+A-spec&adtag=network%3Dign%26pagetype%3Darticle%26site%3Dps2viewer&return_url=http%3A%2F%2Fps2.ign.com%2Fobjects%2F013%2F013846.html

http://mediaviewer.ign.com/ignMediaPage.jsp?media_id=1275668&object_id=13846&channel_id=70&page_title=Gran+Turismo+3+A-spec&adtag=network%3Dign%26pagetype%3Darticle%26site%3Dps2viewer&return_url=http%3A%2F%2Fps2.ign.com%2Fobjects%2F013%2F013846.html

http://mediaviewer.ign.com/ignMediaPage.jsp?media_id=1275795&object_id=13846&channel_id=70&page_title=Gran+Turismo+3+A-spec&adtag=network%3Dign%26pagetype%3Darticle%26site%3Dps2viewer&return_url=http%3A%2F%2Fps2.ign.com%2Fobjects%2F013%2F013846.html
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 06, 2002, 05:51:09 AM
and how long ago did GT3 come out?  and how old is the hardware its running on?  do you see me comparing rallisport to Gt3?  no, you are

frustrated huh, watch?

yer making the xbox look bad more than i ever could
thanks

yes PC is the basis
Pc\'s > consoles like ive said all along
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Bobs_Hardware on June 06, 2002, 05:56:46 AM
hey mm, it doesnt really make a difference when GT3 came out..

..because it wasnt blurry when you played it  :)  sharp as a tack

uhh.. least not that i ever noticed

:p
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 06, 2002, 06:12:16 AM
it doesnt make a difference actually

watch is frustrated cause he cant force his stinky opinion on me

i dont compare the two consoles
i NEVER say "ps2 is better" or " Gt3 didnt have blur"

i do bash the PS2, and i would do it more often except there\'s too many A+ games out to keep me busy
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 06, 2002, 07:07:06 AM
-
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 06, 2002, 07:15:04 AM
no, i dont know "it"

rallisport was tagged as the best looking, best driving rally game out there

its not, and i refuse to make excuses for it, like some others here

do you see me speaking the glory that is PS2?  nope
you cant even begin to say i do

bashing xbox + praising PS2 = bad

thats why i dont do it
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: seven on June 06, 2002, 08:16:05 AM
Watchdog, if Xbox is so much more powerful than the other consoles, why are you blaming us for expecting more from it and not comparing it with PS2?

Question is, where are the double standards?
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: QuDDus on June 06, 2002, 08:23:40 AM
seven do you own a xbox?
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 06, 2002, 08:44:33 AM
Xbox hardware does outclass any console of this generation--just look at almost any port or any game that is on all three systems.  Fact of the matter is that they are comparable because they are the same price.  I don\'t compare xbox to GC because GC is $100. [GC is $150, and that makes no sense, what you just said there. :) -Eik]

The market has deemed that xbox, GC (if you subtract the dvd abilities) and PS2 are on par, competing products to the consumer.  That makes them comparable.

But beyond that mm and I aren\'t debating console specs, we\'re debating "great game" criteria and that is where the double standard is.

_____________
i NEVER say "ps2 is better" or " Gt3 didnt have blur"
_____________

No, but you don\'t say that it does either.  That\'s my point.  I never said RC was the best driving game out there, I said it\'s one of the best looking, you say no it isn\'t, horrendous blur.  So, show me a game that bests it, and that doesn\'t have "blur".  Or show me where you invaded a thread, went completely off topic to trash a PS2 game?  You don\'t do it.

How can you like any PS2 game with such high graphical standards?  How do you over look the blur, fogging, slowdown, bad textures, bad camera, woeful clipping and completely love GTA3 on the PS2 (before PC version)?

How can "blur" completely render RC terrible, while GTA3 can rise above it and be one of your favourites?  

And what A+ PS2 games have been released in the past couple months?
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 06, 2002, 09:49:56 AM
again, watch

i find reading yer posts extremely difficult to read

im not even sure what yer trying to say anymore

the blur is rallisport is attrocious and renders it unplayable for me
you dont see the blur?  you dont mind the blur?  you thinks its there on purpose?  thats fine, run with that.  i wont.  my standards are higher


what games in the last couple months?

Medal Of Honor Frontline

one last thing my friend, why is MY opinion SO important to you?
:P
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: seven on June 06, 2002, 12:12:06 PM
Quote
Xbox hardware does outclass any console of this generation--just look at almost any port or any game that is on all three systems. Fact of the matter is that they are comparable because they are the same price. I don\'t compare xbox to GC because GC is $100.

The market has deemed that xbox, GC (if you subtract the dvd abilities) and PS2 are on par, competing products to the consumer. That makes them comparable.

But beyond that mm and I aren\'t debating console specs, we\'re debating "great game" criteria and that is where the double standard is.


Hum, no, I don\'t think so. Correct me if I\'m wrong, but this debate between you and mm did start by us discussing the blur issue of Rallisport - so in that sense, you guys were argueing graphics (blur) and double standards as in finding the blur "horrendous" in Xbox games, but being excused in PS2 games - did you not?

Quote
You guys have a double standard and that\'s a fact. This game would not get this kind of treatment if it were a PS2. And no, mm, you don\'t do this to all consoles. I haven\'t ever heard you bring up any PS2 game for it\'s graphical problems. It\'s a double standard, and that\'s it.


You quoted this just a tad bit further up. Obviously you are on about graphics, so may I ask you again, why is it wrong for us, to expect more from Xbox games in a graphical sense - as it is clearly the upper hardware following your logic?

Or do you want us to look at every Xbox game and say like in this example: "mmh, Rallisport has blur, but PS2 games have much more and it\'s everywhere, so therefore Rallisport looks good even with blur because it still has less than any racer on PS2". Of course, obviously leaving out the fact that the Xbox game should look better as it is, following your logic, clearly the "superiour" hardware.

Funny, you and almost every Xbox owner out there wants us to believe how "superiour" the Xbox hardware is, but as soon as it comes that someone points out graphical issues in a game - you guys insist on us comparing them to PS2 games, thus putting them on the same level again.
Make up your mind - either keep believing that Xbox is "superiour" and let us have those higher expectations - or we decide to believe that they\'re equal in terms of hardware and then we can compare them under the same circumstances.

So much for "double standards" isn\'t it, Watchdog? ;)
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 06, 2002, 12:34:05 PM
_______
the blur is rallisport is attrocious and renders it unplayable for me
you dont see the blur? you dont mind the blur? you thinks its there on purpose? thats fine, run with that. i wont. my standards are higher
_______

As high as GTA3 for PS2?  That\'s not high at all.  Yet this is somehow passable to you.

__________
Medal Of Honor Frontline
__________

But aren\'t you going blind from the inconsistent 30fps?  What about the same gameplay that we\'ve played for years?  What about uninspiring AI?  What about bland BLURRY textures?  What about how much better this game is on the PC?

This clearly isn\'t an A+ game--c\'mon!
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: seven on June 06, 2002, 12:51:38 PM
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Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: fastson on June 06, 2002, 12:52:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Watchdog

This clearly isn\'t an A+ game--c\'mon!


Yes it is..
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 06, 2002, 01:03:03 PM
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Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: PS2Fanantic on June 06, 2002, 04:24:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Watchdog
I hope you mean blur not blue...anyway.

I see what you are referring to, but it\'s not a limitation.  You are the only one that has a problem with that--it\'s never been mentioned in a review anywhere.  In fact, RSC has been said to have some of the best graphics to date.

Yet you\'re not impressed...

I know it\'s fashionable to pick on the xbox and tear down every  good game in this place, so this kind of stuff is expected, I suppose.


I had that game when I owned an Xbox and the graphics are amazing. No racing game equals RSC graphically but just like WWF Raw and UFC Tapout (which I played) the game makes you think that something is missing. i.e. shallow gameplay.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: QuDDus on June 06, 2002, 04:41:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by seven


You quoted this just a tad bit further up. Obviously you are on about graphics, so may I ask you again, why is it wrong for us, to expect more from Xbox games in a graphical sense - as it is clearly the upper hardware following your logic?

Or do you want us to look at every Xbox game and say like in this example: "mmh, Rallisport has blur, but PS2 games have much more and it\'s everywhere, so therefore Rallisport looks good even with blur because it still has less than any racer on PS2". Of course, obviously leaving out the fact that the Xbox game should look better as it is, following your logic, clearly the "superiour" hardware.

Funny, you and almost every Xbox owner out there wants us to believe how "superiour" the Xbox hardware is, but as soon as it comes that someone points out graphical issues in a game - you guys insist on us comparing them to PS2 games, thus putting them on the same level again.
Make up your mind - either keep believing that Xbox is "superiour" and let us have those higher expectations - or we decide to believe that they\'re equal in terms of hardware and then we can compare them under the same circumstances.

So much for "double standards" isn\'t it, Watchdog? ;)


Not too disrespect you, but everyone knows xbox has the better technology. But you can\'t compare all games. Some developers work hard on software, and others don\'t.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 06, 2002, 04:56:50 PM
Quote
makes you think that something is missing. i.e. shallow gameplay.


there\'s the words im looking for

watchdog, you turned into a graphics tart, havent you?
tsk tsk

most xbox games are creampuffs
less cream, more puff
if ya know what i mean
kinda like watchdogs debates, hmmmmm

watch, why when i knock a xbox game, yer quick to throw a PS2 game in my face?  i dont understand yer crusade.

again, raise yer expectations
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 06, 2002, 07:22:51 PM
I have never said RC is the cream of racers.  I say it\'s a graphical landmark.  I will say RC is lots of fun with 4-way split screen though.  The graphics are some of the very best of this generation--that\'s our point of contention.

Say what you will about my debates, but you\'ve been avoiding the question.  I don\'t throw PS2 games in your face to bash them, btw.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 06, 2002, 07:25:53 PM
no, but you DO compare them to xbox titles
which i dont
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 06, 2002, 07:50:07 PM
I compare them to xbox games ONLY when someone is bashing a game for well known PS2 graphical problems (jaggies, etc).

I don\'t start threads to do it.  I don\'t go out of my way.  I never bring it up.  If people are being unfair towards an xbox game, I\'m more than fair with a PS2. :)  All\'s fair...
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 06, 2002, 07:56:33 PM
again, since when did you become the m$ crusader?

i find it amusing you can compare against games on a console two years older as a retort.  

1st you try to deny any such blur,  slowdown, gameplay shortcomings in xbox games

when that process fails and you cant prove otherwise, you immediately go to plan 2

insult a common PS2 game as a shield

:rolleyes:

regardless, nothing you say or do will convince me to lower my standards for a brand new next-gen console, aka "teh PS2 killah"

and every killer app (jgrf, gunvalkryie, hunter: the reckoning) will continue to fall very short of the hype

|
|  insert insult to upcoming hyped Ps2 game below (plan 2)  :P
|
\\/
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 06, 2002, 08:03:59 PM
I\'m not a MS crusader.

If the PS2 was getting the treatment the xbox does, I would be defending that too.  I just want to talk games, but that can\'t happen here...yet.

I have often posted short comings for xbox games here.

I NEVER trash PS2 games for its own sake.  I bring it up to clarify some wayward thinking around here.

And there is nothing wrong with comparing the two consoles--they cost the same, their games cost the same, the parent companies acknowledge the comparison and don\'t try to down play it.  N does, so we can leave them out if you\'d like.

You still haven\'t answered my question:  Why do you not trash PS2 games that are crap when compared to other PS2 games?  This fits into your rigid parameters.  You do it for xbox, why is the PS2 exempt?
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 06, 2002, 08:09:41 PM
errrr, because noone creates PS2 game topics in here?

:nerd:

check the thread in MAIN about timesplitters 2
look at what my 1st question was

whats that hissing sound?
sound like air.....escaping out of a bag......
perhaps........
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: fastson on June 07, 2002, 03:53:36 AM
Talking about blurriness.. This is how a port of GT3 would look like :eyemouth:

(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.480.telia.com%2F%7Eu48019550%2Fgt3x.jpg&hash=47a5d095af677d8e720517f8a4a1e7b9327cbad9)

Mind.. its only a joke.. So don’t get a heart attack Xbox fanboys.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 07, 2002, 03:57:10 AM
lol, fastson

23 fps is the kicker, ehhe
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: NVIDIA256 on June 07, 2002, 09:54:23 AM
Quote
23 fps is the kicker, ehhe


Actually I find the real kicker of this thread is you MM.
talk about double standards and consistant denial.

Watchdog has out proved you in every corner, you haven\'t changed at all have you mm, you AND watchdog remind me of the days of MM(you) and Triton(however you spell his name).
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 07, 2002, 10:09:34 AM
oh, so i guess you dont see the blur in rallisport, and think its intentional too, huh?

its trintius, he deserves to have his name written correctly
as blindsighted as he may have been, i gave him the most respect out of any person ive ever debated with.  he was RELENTLESS, kinda like watch, and thats why i like and respect him also

technically, neither watch nor I have  proved much of anything
we\'re throwing our opinions at each other, and entertaining ourselves.  should we be doing more?  

and why is "double standard" the new xbox zealot catch phrase?
of course i expect xbox games to be of higher quality.  the hardware thier running on is two years NEWER and easier to develop for.  xbox hardware (cpu aside) dominates PS2, no?  so you guys can whine and cry "double standard" all you want, my standards for the next gen console (ps2 killah!!!!1) are high.

now go slink back to yer lurker postion 256, thank you
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: NVIDIA256 on June 08, 2002, 02:10:58 PM
Quote
now go slink back to yer lurker postion 256, thank you



LOL! :laughing:

Still to this day mm, you continue to amuse me.

PS. What ever happened to souldgrind?
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 08, 2002, 06:18:23 PM
yeah, you should post more often man
i\'m always glad when people notice my slight humor and appreciate it

everyone knows clyde\'s the muscle around here anyways

soulgrind?  who\'s that?  *snicker*

no seriously, i dunno
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: AlteredBeast on June 08, 2002, 07:10:43 PM
Medal of Honor Frontline = A+? pfff, hardly. It seems like everytime I go up to a Nazi, he just stands there, intent on me killing him. Whenever a large blast goes off or alot of action takes place, the framerate crawls at this ATROCIOUS sub-30fps level. It gives me a headache just thinking about it. The textures are blurry messes and the game doesn\'t give me a feeling of wanting to play it. I will just wait until Frontline comes out on a system that can better handle it.

FPSs are for PCs, not for consoles! How can you even play this when you can\'t even use a kb and mouse setup? Not even worth my time.


Eric Jacob
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 08, 2002, 07:19:23 PM
damn, altered you are a complete hater

if this was an xbox game, you would herald is as the holy grail of gaming


(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.ea.com%2Feagames%2Fofficial%2Fmoh_frontline%2Fscreenshots%2Fscreenshot10.jpg&hash=dc445ef4e34558c49b2ddf19e2d9f84aab3fe2f0)

(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.ea.com%2Feagames%2Fofficial%2Fmoh_frontline%2Fscreenshots%2Fscreenshot17.jpg&hash=136d593612e94e7b553f2a1fbe35475ff96e30f4)

(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.ea.com%2Feagames%2Fofficial%2Fmoh_frontline%2Fscreenshots%2Fscreenshot22.jpg&hash=e22e75172807690cb6dd72de3c166e1e484fe968)
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: AlteredBeast on June 08, 2002, 08:36:46 PM
sarcasm, mm. Some of those things have been said about Halo, doesn\'t mean they are true. Frontline is great, like the old MoH games, which I have ALWAYS praised.

BUT, judging by your critiquing of Halo, you should only be "disappointed" with this game. I am surprised to you even bought it, as AA is obviously the better game, along with the port of Frontline going to XBox.

and GUNVALKYRIE lived up to every miniscule of hype it had. If it didn\'t. you are a pussy.


Eric Jacob
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: AlteredBeast on June 08, 2002, 08:39:01 PM
and when have I ever heralded a game because it was on XBox. I praise games I believe will rock. Many I am excited for on XBox are either Sega games, or sound VERY interesting.

same with every system. I am disappointed in that last comment of yours, mm. You must see me as some sort of XBox fanboy, I am merely a person who likes to clear up arguments with a factual and sarcastic perspective.


Eric Jacob
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Bozco on June 08, 2002, 09:31:52 PM
I completely see where Altered is coming from.  Halo is trash yet Frontline carries the same traits and is hailed.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 09, 2002, 03:20:50 AM
sigh

sometimes, i seriously dont think you guys read what i say

xbox came out two years after PS2, no?
then shouldnt i expect more from its games graphically?

but if were talking flat-out atmosphere

moh:fs > moh:aa

moh:aa  is quake 3 set in wwII

although i NEVER said halo is trash, its a great FPS that is marred by flaws such as SEVERE drops in fps, extremely repetitive, and zero replay value.  

halo is a creampuff, less cream, more puff

moh:f compels me to play it
halo just makes ya say "that was kinda cool, *yawn*"
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Bobs_Hardware on June 09, 2002, 03:42:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
sigh

sometimes, i seriously dont think you guys read what i say

xbox came out two years after PS2, no?
then shouldnt i expect more from its games graphically?

but if were talking flat-out atmosphere

moh:fs > moh:aa

moh:aa  is quake 3 set in wwII

although i NEVER said halo is trash, its a great FPS that is marred by flaws such as SEVERE drops in fps, extremely repetitive, and zero replay value.  

halo is a creampuff, less cream, more puff

moh:f compels me to play it
halo just makes ya say "that was kinda cool, *yawn*"


now go say that at TeamXbox like some other moron did  :p
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 09, 2002, 03:59:22 AM
hell no, i refuse to even look at thier forums, lest my eyes be burned from thier sockets

errr, not sure if you called me a moron or not
:)
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 09, 2002, 07:20:32 AM
Framerate problems are no where near as bad as they are in MOH.  Graphics are no where near as good.  AI is no where near as good.  The physics engine is incredible in Halo.  MOH has incredible sound, I\'ll give you that.  Multiplayer gives Halo infinite replayability (besides that how many times can you go through any game in SP?).

You cannot just make some crass comparison and judge one better because of their framerates.

You always say that xbox is 2 years newer and you should expect more.  Well, Halo looks and plays two years better than MOH on PS2.

But you said you would like anything with the MOH tag so your opinion can be tolerated.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Mr. Kennedy on June 09, 2002, 08:13:33 AM
Watchdog deserves an avatar...

(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.teamxbox.com%2Fteamxbox%2Fheaderplain_r2_c1.jpg&hash=edf03a1ad53dc541b2d5d5b31ae17d8879ae8e19)

Yeah, now we all will see where he\'s coming from.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Bozco on June 09, 2002, 09:00:47 AM
Quote
You always say that xbox is 2 years newer and you should expect more. Well, Halo looks and plays two years better than MOH on PS2.


Halo may play slightly better but your taking it way to far.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Ryu on June 09, 2002, 09:14:07 AM
I\'ve always liked MoH on the PSX, but this is the 4th version in the game\'s library and it\'s getting a little old.  That isn\'t my big complaint about it, it has some neat levels, but I do think overall, Halo is a better game.

If people won\'t concede that Halo is better graphically, I personally think the framerate in Halo is FAR more stable then it is in MoH, then you have to admit that it\'s split screen co-op mode is magnificent.  Sure, it\'s an old feature done before and the game is not updated in its story to handle the co-op properly, but it\'s definitely enjoyable in almost every way.  I had a friend come over repeatedely for days to play it co-op until we beat all the difficulties.

I also personally think the textures and lighting in Halo are far superior and if you set up the two games running side by side, I\'m sure everyone here would agree, unless of course they dig way too deep to want to see something that is barely noticeable to a typical person, but stands out because people feel the need to point fingers.  Kind of like how when the PS2 came out, it was ridiculed for it\'s jaggies and washed out textures.

MoH:F just didn\'t have the grip on me that the original had or even what underground had, but that\'s expected after the 4th sequel dealing with the same time period.  Halo may be repetetive, and the only level I can think of where it sticks out like that in a glaring fashion was in the library, but I still had great fun playing it.  For every repetetive section in Halo, there were at least two neat ideas worth exploring whether they be new guns, vehicles, sticky grenades or whatever that just game the game a load of fun to go through.

I don\'t think many people will agree with me on that, but it\'s just my opinion.  I just think Halo is the better game graphically and it\'s just more fun.  Like Watchdog though, I give MoH the win for sound, the sound is amazing.  I own the soundtrack. :)
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Bossieman on June 09, 2002, 09:22:11 AM
I haven´t played any of the games, but   I bet both are great.
But I do know that so far x-box doesnt look 2 years newer or "superior" PS2 or GC.

If I took a screenshot from a PSX game and compared it to a PS2/GC or x-box screenshot, I could easily say what screenshot came from the PSX.

I cant see any difference between PS2/GC/ or x-box games.
When I see new screenshots today I honestly doesnt know if they are PS2/GC or x-box. So the x-box can´t bee superior yet, or?

I dont think there ever will be a situation were you could say - Thats a xbox game!! and bee totally sure. The differences are to small to make any big differences.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 09, 2002, 09:28:40 AM
I\'m not taking it far at all.  Halo has great texture quailty, and its engine is so much more sophisticated, so much more flexible.  It\'s not a stretch at all.  Just look at the warthog jump video and try something like that in MOH.

There\'s no multi in MOH.  No Co-op.  No vehicles.  Nothing that adds anything to the genre at all.  It\'s not a bad game, but it\'s just another FPS, better than average maybe, but that\'s about it.  It\'s essencially another MOH game, which isn\'t a bad thing, but it\'s what it is.

If Halo 2 comes out with the same engine, the same gameplay, the same everything, I\'ll be the first to be dissappointed.  I wouldn\'t buy it, despite how much I loved the first one.  A sequel has to offer something else or it\'s mediocre at best.  And when there are a dozen or so FPSs released every month for various platforms, using the same old ideas isn\'t groundbreaking stuff.

If they would have added muli (either split or internet) and everything else we\'ve come to expect from a FPS, then it would be commendable.  But MOH:F is as stripped down as FPSs come, and that doesn\'t impress me, I\'m sorry.
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: mm on June 09, 2002, 09:43:39 AM
watch is right, i said before im completely jaded towards any MOH title, regardless of console

if its gonna be ported to xbox, than i\'ll buy it
it better not be like spyhunter tho, or you will hear about it repeatedly

:)
Title: Rallisport Challenge on XBOX
Post by: Watchdog on June 09, 2002, 05:52:53 PM
And who said mm and I couldn\'t get along?

:)