PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: luckee on August 16, 2002, 02:15:45 PM
-
This is tooo wrong for sooo many reasons.
Panel agrees on paternity measure
By Michael Gardner
COPLEY NEWS SERVICE
SACRAMENTO — Nick Napoli pays $180 a month in child support for a boy who is not his son.
The biological father “gets all of the love. I get the bill,” said Napoli of Cloverdale. Napoli and hundreds of others are trapped in an unyielding legal system that forces them to pay child support even when the biological father steps forward, or is identified later through DNA testing.
Lawmakers, trapped in a clash between men\'s rights and the desire to protect children, are moving to strike a balance in such contested paternity cases. The Senate Judiciary Committee on Tuesday approved a legislative compromise that would allow men to challenge child-support orders in limited circumstances. In all cases, they must be armed with DNA tests that prove they did not father the child.
Assemblyman Rod Wright, a Los Angeles Democrat carrying the measure, called it a “Miranda rights” for unsuspecting men. “Why should someone be forced to pay for a child who\'s not theirs?” Wright said.
But the issue is not that clear-cut, according to child-rights advocate Lupe Alonzo, who has participated in negotiations on the bill for the Center for Public Interest Law of San Diego. “You\'ve got to think of the child\'s interests,” Alonzo said.
Once broadly written to offer a range of new rights for men to challenge paternity, the measure has been narrowed to apply only in those cases of court-ordered “default judgments.” Those cases occur when the alleged father does not appear in court. Some men do not receive notices to appear because state law permits summonses to be delivered to a job site where they may no longer work or to their last-known home address.
Under existing law, default judgments stand — even when DNA tests prove someone else is the father. Under the compromise, AB 2240 would allow men to challenge default orders if DNA evidence proves they are not the father. Regardless, men would still have to pay child support if the child had lived in the home or a familial bond was established. The bill would not provide all men with another day in court. For example, in divorce cases, husbands would still be responsible for child support even if it\'s later proved that the child was conceived in an extramarital affair.
“Biology does not make a father. . . . In the child\'s eyes, you are the father,” Alonzo said.
A compromise
Wright was clearly unhappy with being forced to cut a deal, particularly after the broader version had sailed off the Assembly floor on a 57-3 vote. But, he said, it was either accept the offer or lose the bill. Wright dismissed the significance of bonds that may develop between the nonbiological parents and children, Wright said. “They just write checks,” Wright said of most men who are forced to pay.
Valerie Ackerman, an attorney with the National Center for Youth Law, remains opposed to the bill.
“The front end of paternity establishment has to be fixed,” she said. At a minimum, the system of notifying alleged fathers of their rights and responsibilities needs to be improved, she said. However, Ackerman said, there are some safeguards in existing law. Men have six months from the time they learn they have been named as the fathers to mount a challenge, she said.
Nonbiological dad
Despite its limited reach, Bert Riddick embraces the amended legislation. The Carson resident pays $1,400 a month to support a child he has never met and “DNA has proven he is not mine.”
“My family is ruined by something I had nothing to do with,” Riddick said.
Difference of opinion
Sen. Sheila Kuehl, a former family law attorney who voted against the bill, said it\'s vital to a child\'s interest to have a father figure in his or her life. “What makes a father? This bill says the donation of genetic material makes a father. I don\'t agree,” said Kuehl, D-Santa Monica. But a dozen or so men who have regularly lobbied for the bill this year say in many cases they never had a chance to form a relationship. More importantly, as Riddick asked, “What about my own children? What about their interests?”
Publish Date:08/14/02
http://www.dailybreeze.com/content/bln/nmppaternty14.html
-
We Americans have the most freedom in the world. We can pray to any god(s) we want or not even believe in religion. You can grow up to be anything you want to, you can have as many kids you want, you can curse, and talk against the government. Do that in 50% of all the other countries around the world and you\'d be dead. Why should we be making such a deal over $180 a month. Be thankful that this is a big issue to us and not food shortages or suicide bombings everyday.
-
So basically you are saying I can take you to court and get you to make my car payments..even though you never drive it..but b/c I gave you a ride once?
-
Ummm... where did you get that? I\'m saying to be thankful this is a big problem cuz its so small. Sure I\'d be pissed, but I wouldn\'t be standing next to a guy with dynamite on him.
-
Vivi, that was one of the dumbest statements in recent forum history.
No one should have to pay for someone elses child, when it is proven that someone else is the biological father.
The only reason you have this all-american philosphy is because you, are not paying for someone\'s child. You are not working hard, jsut for part of your check can be taken out, for a child that is not even yours - while the father of that child is working and keeping every dime .
When you actually mature and find yourself in a similiar situation, you\'re tune will change. That I gurantee.
-
I got that from this.
Why should we be making such a deal over $180 a month.
What ever things that dont happen here in no way make it right. We adjust our lives accordingly. We dont have to worry about suicide bombers on a daily basis, so therefore..suicide bombers are not a priority.
-
Tell me how many people are in this situation.
and LIC stfu. I don\'t care if you\'re a moderator or not nobody was being offensive till you posted in here.
-
whether you found his comments offensive are one thing..but he wasnt being offensive...
anywho..quite a few ppl are in that situation. go talk to some californian men. Thats where most of the non-biological dads paying for kids has come from.
-
Nothing I said was offensive. It was true. You\'re young and you\'ve displayed it countless times, with your opinions on cops, races and now this . It is a naive , young idea on life. All I said, is when you mature , you will maybe realize that these things are bigger situations and more important than what you downplay them as.
I would imagine a lot of people are in this situation. Take all the people who pay child support and then find out the kids are not theirs. Should they continue to pay? Hell no! If anything - they should get back paid for what money was taken from them.
As for the moderator comment - I don\'t ask for \'special respect\' because I\'m a mod. I don\'t even mod this forum. So, that is not a issue.
You\'re young and naive. Nothing wrong with that, per say. Just a fact.
*shrugs*
-
Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Vivi, that was one of the dumbest statements in recent forum history.
What? So that\'s a compliment?
We all have our opinions on things LIC. What does age have anything to do with opinions? If I hadn\'t stated my age you wouldn\'t be treating me as a intellegent person, but I did and I\'m just a kid. Who\'s the naive one? Let\'s talk about the cop arguement. Do you think all cops are bad? Well if you hate cops you probably do. Think about the cops and firefighters that died trying to save people when the WTC fell. I bet they were actually beating people over the head with flashlights. As for race\'s I take them lightly. When someone calls me a cracker I don\'t care, why do people freak out when they hear the word chink, or nigger, or towel head? That\'s my view on it. If you don\'t want racism to be a issue than don\'t MAKE those words an issue. Sure in the past I did make some racist comments but I still stick by most of them. Like BET, wtf is that? Why isn\'t there a mexican history month or Asian? Because the majority of people are hypocitical about races. People here called me a racist person because I said most blacks I hate, but when you go deeper into the subject you find that most of them are the racist ones. When you hear some black person say "why isn\'t there a black president?" they are the racist ones. If skin tone isn\'t judgmental then why should they care if there isn\'t any black presidents. Same thing goes for BET. If they don\'t want to be treated for the color of their skin they shouldn\'t have a whole month dedicated to their history, or channels with not one other race on it. And all of these rap videos with black people being the only people on it, do you really think it\'s a coincidence? I think not.
I am definately not the naive one. I see the world totally for what it is, despite my age.
-
What does age have to do with your opinion? Ummmm, everything.
And the whole idea that there is bigger problems in life so who cares is plain idiotic. 180$ gone each month for doing nothing wrong what so ever. Next people will be thrown in jail for shopping at a store when its robbed or what not. Or even better, maybe people will be charged for murder because they legally sell a gun to someone that shoots someone. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Bozco
What does age have to do with your opinion? Ummmm, everything.
And the whole idea that there is bigger problems in life so who cares is plain idiotic. 180$ gone each month for doing nothing wrong what so ever. Next people will be thrown in jail for shopping at a store when its robbed or what not. Or even better, maybe people will be charged for murder because they legally sell a gun to someone that shoots someone. :rolleyes:
Where are your facts about age having to do with my opinion. It\'s funny you didn\'t back it up with anything. You\'re one year older than me, does that mean you\'re smarter? I shouldn\'t be questioning such a wise old man.
Did I say who cares? NO! Did I say it was ok? NO! I don\'t think its ok. All I said was its a good thing that this is the biggest problem.
Your whole post is illogical.
-
I didn\'t need to back it up, its obvious. The saying is "one day older, one day wiser". And why are you so defensive, you get your panties in a twist over the stupidest things.
And how is my post illogical? They are in trouble for doing absolutely nothing wrong, same as in the analogies.
And nobody said it was the biggest problem, god only knows where you got that from. It\'s just a huge flaw in our legal system, thats all.
-
I\'m getting so defensive cuz people are putting words in my mouth and it really pisses me off. And I didn\'t really mean it was the biggest problem, just an expression.
Your post was illogical because you turned it into "Next people will be thrown in jail for shopping at a store when its robbed or what not. Or even better, maybe people will be charged for murder because they legally sell a gun to someone that shoots someone. :rolleyes: "
Like thats really going to happen? Come on.
-
Haha, you only completely understood my point. This is equally upsurd.
-
He is just pissed off b/c ppl called him on something.
Vivi..face it..your age has shown in numerous serious topics..its nothing to get pissed off or offemded by. You will see as you get older.
Now un-twist the panties as boz said. Its not doing much for you.
-
ok so maybe age has a little bit to do with things but it doesn\'t mean I\'m always wrong about things. I\'m mostly pissed because people were putting words in my mouth. Don\'t say nobody was.
-
yup..alot with it has to do with age..as far as putting things in your mouth goes....
If you present yourself in a certain manner, that is how you will be perceived.
-
That has to be one of the most screwed up things I\'ve ever read. I feel sorry for that guy.
-
There was a story about this on Dateline or 20/20
-
Vivi is right.. we should be glad we don\'t have to deal with the kinda crap 3/4\'s of the rest of the world has to. But ya know what.. we DON\'T have to deal with it.. whereas we do have to deal with things like this. The point of civilization is to keep progressing and improving on ourselves. Just because there\'s worse things out there, doesn\'t mean we can jus ignore smaller problems either. It\'s not right these guys are having to pay child support for children that aren\'t theres.. and just because some lil afghani kid half a world away is starving to death dosen\'t mean this guy over here should keep paying for some other dude\'s kid.
Let\'s fix the problems we\'re faced with, instead of saying "F*ck it.. we can ignore the problems cause at least we\'re not as bad off as those poor SOB\'s."
-
Age has a lot to do with it. I see nothing offensive in saying that your age allows you to have a naive view on the world and current situations, like this one.
We all have ben young at one time and had those same naive views, such as "ah, that doesn\'t effect me" or "it isn\'t that big of a deal".
All I said was as you mature you\'ll gain more experience about the real world and what things do honestly effect people. Things like this are a big deal and you may realize that when you\'re 23 and maybe paying child support.
And while it may sound like I don\'t agree with you - I do to an extent. We are lucky that we don\'t have to deal with certain things. But those things that we do have to deal with are important.
-
If this was a women this was happening, OH GOD this would be all over the news, god forbid something like this happen to a women they\'d have women rights activists all this shizit. This country sometimes makes me wonder why if we are so free in a sense that it is always not that way.
-
Originally posted by ViVi
We Americans have the most freedom in the world. We can pray to any god(s) we want or not even believe in religion. You can grow up to be anything you want to, you can have as many kids you want, you can curse, and talk against the government.
Yeah, you\'re so right. I can\'t do that here. :crying:
Oh wait, I can. And I don\'t even have to worry about being sued because some lardass thinks he can make millions on abusing the legal system.
-
Originally posted by Samwise
Yeah, you\'re so right. I can\'t do that here. :crying:
Oh wait, I can. And I don\'t even have to worry about being sued because some lardass thinks he can make millions on abusing the legal system.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
LUCKY BASTARD!!!!
-
Why did that deserve 3 rolleyes? I was just stating why some people would be tricked into believe all Americans are ignorant bastards who doesn\'t know anything about anything (except McD perhaps). I know that\'s not true, but statements like ViVi\'s sure aren\'t helping.
-
Kids are taught as if US is the supreme country.
-
Well, that\'s fine and all (since the US is the only superpower left) if they\'re also taught that other countries are actually up there with the US on a number of points - like health, technology, welfare, freedom and so on. And then there are countries like Afghanistan, which are good... for us to poop on! ;)
-
You\'re right... But what would you expect from having 1 grandpa and a grandma in the air force , a brother from the marines, and another grandpa from the Navy. I still have them ask what me part of the military I\'m going to join.
-
Originally posted by ViVi
You\'re right... But what would you expect from having 1 grandpa and a grandma in the air force , a brother from the marines, and another grandpa from the Navy. I still have them ask what me part of the military I\'m going to join.
Ah, then all is forgiven. ;)
So what part is it gonna be? :D
-
Originally posted by ViVi
You\'re right... But what would you expect from having 1 grandpa and a grandma in the air force , a brother from the marines, and another grandpa from the Navy. I still have them ask what me part of the military I\'m going to join.
Wow.. compared to the rest of your family, you\'re a real failure..
-
Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
Wow.. compared to the rest of your family, you\'re a real failure..
:laughing: WTF are you talking about?
I *might* join the air force. And if my eyesight keeps me from joining and I\'m feeling really suicidal I will join the Navy.
-
:D Just a joke.. I was hoping you would be offended :(
-
Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
:D Just a joke.. I was hoping you would be offended :(
Shut the hell up you filthy bitch!
-
..:(
Filthy bitch is my (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=23933) insult!
:(..
-
This is crap... Nobody should be able to steal your money to support a cheating lying whore, who birthed a child whom you have no bond with.
Yet another way America is moving towards authoritarian... What if I don\'t believe in a strong family structure. Its not like women like that have a strong sense of family.
But I could talk a long time about the defimation of freedom in this country.
you\'re punished for crimes you haven\'t commited
The government owns your body and property
they steal your money to support things you hve no interest in
they crush free market trade
they are slowly taking away all of our choices
I am pro-choice on everything,
If you hurt somebody or their property, than you should pay restitution. Otherwise the government should keep their nose out of my life.
-
Originally posted by ViVi
We Americans have the most freedom in the world.
Tell that to those who are awaiting their death in a prison and then, tell us what they said.
-
Originally posted by Adan
Tell that to those who are awaiting their death in a prison and then, tell us what they said.
It\'s common sense that you wouldn\'t get away with murder or serial rapes.
-
It\'s common sense also to have evidences before killing a person. A spaniard went out of death corridor 2 years or so ago after been 10 whole years awaiting his death. After the second juzgement, the juzge said: there is not only one proof to this man is in prison: 5 hours later he was out. Is this fair?
This guy saved his head. How many haven\'t got that luck?
-
Adan I would respond if I understood what you were trying to say. :D
-
Sorry Bozco, my english is far to be perfect. I said that in order to kill a person, you may have solid evidences of the person\'s culpability.
-
Yea, your right, and who knows how many people are innocent in US jails. I think the legal system here is good but far from perfect.
-
The legal system in which you sentence and pay "with the same coin" is really FAR to be good and perfect.
-
Originally posted by Samwise
Why did that deserve 3 rolleyes? I was just stating why some people would be tricked into believe all Americans are ignorant bastards who doesn\'t know anything about anything (except McD perhaps). I know that\'s not true, but statements like ViVi\'s sure aren\'t helping.
Hold up, I was really saying u are lucky to have what u have, the eyes are looking up towards what u said!!! sorry for the confusion
-
We American can do so much. We could sue our neighbor because their dog takes a crap on their lawn. We have terrorists in our own back yards and can\'t do anything about it because we need a warrent. Our rules of engagement are very messed up. You must get clearance from the government to fire upon our enemy when there our bullets flying over our heads. People rant about America in front of the White House protesting about somehting stupid. We can burn flags and can go on television and call the president a jackass and because it\'s in our constitution, we can get away with it. I think us Americans have too much freedom. Just my two cents.
-
There was a study done back in 97\', I believe about the death penatly in southern states. Did you know a black man in a southern state is more likely to receive the death penatly than a white man, for the very same crime? Our legal system needs reworked.
-
Originally posted by Titan
We American can do so much. We could sue our neighbor because their dog takes a crap on their lawn. We have terrorists in our own back yards and can\'t do anything about it because we need a warrent. Our rules of engagement are very messed up. You must get clearance from the government to fire upon our enemy when there our bullets flying over our heads. People rant about America in front of the White House protesting about somehting stupid. We can burn flags and can go on television and call the president a jackass and because it\'s in our constitution, we can get away with it. I think us Americans have too much freedom. Just my two cents.
too much freedom... there is no such thing. I want freedom from oppression. I want the freedom to do to myself what I wish. I want right to own my own property, free from income tax. I don\'t want to support other people, I can barely support myself. It would be easier to do so if 45% of my income didn\'t get taxed to the government. You talk about free speech... but try and get on the air and talk about the evils and corruption of the demopublicans.
The government should have few roles...
1- Defense against other countries... (not preemptive policiing)
2- Okay can\'t think of anything else right now that can\'t be handled by private and competitive business
I think you should take a long look at this country before you decide whether or not we have too much freedom.
and while yer at it check this out
http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html
-
Ok, first off, I was just babbling. Second off, freedom of certain things like press, property and shit like that is alright with me. You need to understand what taxes are used for. Many people want to do away with taxes. I say keep it. Why you say? You need to understand what the government does with your money. They use it for our military, restoration of certain things, fixing of roads, ect. Also, you say the government should have few roles. Ok, that\'s messed up. All the government should be there for is military purposes (defense)? Nah. Without the government, everything will be messed up. Warlords and gangs will run the streets, terrorism, homicide, zero rights. The country would be third world in a matter of months. Decisions would take forever to go through, everything will be in disarray.
-
Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
There was a study done back in 97\', I believe about the death penatly in southern states. Did you know a black man in a southern state is more likely to receive the death penatly than a white man, for the very same crime? Our legal system needs reworked.
It all depends on how the did it, not the skin. And it\'s not the legal system it\'s people.
-
Originally posted by PahnCrD
too much freedom... there is no such thing. I want freedom from oppression. I want the freedom to do to myself what I wish. I want right to own my own property, free from income tax. I don\'t want to support other people, I can barely support myself. It would be easier to do so if 45% of my income didn\'t get taxed to the government. You talk about free speech... but try and get on the air and talk about the evils and corruption of the demopublicans.
The government should have few roles...
1- Defense against other countries... (not preemptive policiing)
2- Okay can\'t think of anything else right now that can\'t be handled by private and competitive business
I think you should take a long look at this country before you decide whether or not we have too much freedom.
You don\'t want to pay any taxes yet you want the country to support you. How about public schooling and police. Who needs either of those, my money is my money. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by ViVi
It all depends on how the did it, not the skin. And it\'s not the legal system it\'s people.
Are you really that dense? Im not trying to insult you..but that word stands out for some reason after reading your post.
-
What do you mean? You think I hate blacks or something?
-
Originally posted by ViVi
What do you mean? You think I hate blacks or something?
Are you feeling guilty? Why would you asked that question?
-
Dude you aren\'t making any sense spit it out. Why am I dense?
-
Originally posted by ViVi
Dude you aren\'t making any sense spit it out. Why am I dense?
You are dense to think people do not get persecuted for their ethnic backround or color in the legal system.
BTW..if you wanted me to stay on that subject..you shouldnt have asked me that other question.
-
Believe it or not I wouldn\'t send a black to jail just because they\'re black. I don\'t hate them to the point where I want all of them dead, to me most *note I said most* are just really annoying.
Almost everyone is prejudice to something.
-
so lucky, yer saying that almost 70% of all criminals in jail are black for a specific reason other than thier skin color?
-
Originally posted by ViVi
Believe it or not I wouldn\'t send a black to jail just because they\'re black. I don\'t hate them to the point where I want all of them dead, to me most *note I said most* are just really annoying.
Almost everyone is prejudice to something.
I guess some kind of guilt was behind that question.
ANywho..I dont really crae what you feel for certain ppl..its your loss.
-
Originally posted by mm
so lucky, yer saying that almost 70% of all criminals in jail are black for a specific reason other than thier skin color?
Where do you get these figures for one?
2: Did you see me say that? Since you didn\'t..dont attempt to put words in mi mouth. Im sure you will be clear on what i said if you go and re-read.
-
You are dense to think people do not get persecuted for their ethnic backround or color in the legal system.
yer saying the US judicial system is racist and prosecutes based on ethnicity, no?
thats a well known fact that the HEAVY majority of crimes are committed by african americans, ESPECIALLY violent crimes
-
But mm thats not what they\'re saying. What they are bringing up is that a black man is more likely to get a harsh penalty for the same crime that a white man has committed.
-
Originally posted by mm
yer saying the US judicial system is racist and prosecutes based on ethnicity, no?
thats a well known fact that the HEAVY majority of crimes are committed by african americans, ESPECIALLY violent crimes
Yes it is a known fact that more minorities commit crimes. I was wondering where you got that percentage from.
What is so hard to understand? Yes..that is what Im saying. The US legal system will send a person to jail based on ethnicity..sexual preference and religion. I didn\'t say that that is ALWAYS the case.
-
makes no difference
the black man is more likely to commit that crime (statistically speaking)
and no jail sentence is less harsh than another
a search on google got me this tidbit
Blacks commit 7.5 times more violent crimes than Whites, although they comprise only one-seventh of the White population.
ouch
-
Originally posted by Titan
Ok, first off, I was just babbling. Second off, freedom of certain things like press, property and shit like that is alright with me. You need to understand what taxes are used for. Many people want to do away with taxes. I say keep it. Why you say? You need to understand what the government does with your money. They use it for our military, restoration of certain things, fixing of roads, ect. Also, you say the government should have few roles. Ok, that\'s messed up. All the government should be there for is military purposes (defense)? Nah. Without the government, everything will be messed up. Warlords and gangs will run the streets, terrorism, homicide, zero rights. The country would be third world in a matter of months. Decisions would take forever to go through, everything will be in disarray.
how do you have freedom of property? the government can take it at any time.
As far as restoration of roads and what not... why can\'t these things be handled by states hiring private contractors?
Most things can be put into private sector with higher quality at much less cost. Its called compittion, the government has none.
As far as terrorism, you need to be doing a little more research as to why we have a terrorism problem. I am no anarchist, I don\'t believe in no government, just much smaller government. you have made some statements I don\'t think you can back up. How would warlords and gangs take over? The police aren\'t gone, or the military. You don\'t get it, you lose rights every day. Ask yourself why you are punished for damage you never do. And what descisions?
-
how do you have freedom of property? the government can take it at any time.
yes, thats due process
its called eminent domain
im with pahn, the US has no govt anymore
we live in a policed state
-
Originally posted by mm
makes no difference
the black man is more likely to commit that crime (statistically speaking)
and no jail sentence is less harsh than another
a search on google got me this tidbit
ouch
What makes no difference?
I wasnt disputing your fact..I already knew that. I was questioning your 70% number and where you got that number from.
Since I have to spell it out
a W-E-B-L-I-N-K would be nice.
-
Originally posted by mm
yes, thats due process
its called eminent domain
im with pahn, the US has no govt anymore
we live in a policed state
Or when that land is really important..its called murder or accidental death :)
-
Nice try mm...
why did you delete?
-
Originally posted by Bozco
You don\'t want to pay any taxes yet you want the country to support you. How about public schooling and police. Who needs either of those, my money is my money. :rolleyes:
hmm... lets see, these things should be privatized. The average public school student takes over $6000 to teach per year for the tax payer.... yet many good private schools cost around $1000 without subsidation. these schools have no metal detectors... not security guards... good grade averages. Why? becuase of compitition, the school knows people have a choice. And police, people in each state and city should be responsable for finding the best private police force for their needs. if you live within city limits you pay a small service fee for the safety that is provided.
the point is... the services would still be there. they would just be cheaper and better. the government takes about %50 of all taxes just to support the beuracracy that porvides no service other than delegate money.
man do some research. iv\'e done mine.
I just can\'t spell... eeerrg!
-
yea..that and spending millions only to find out what they already knew..
A president who had his dick sucked by another besides his wife.
-
and why shouldnt he?
hes the president of the most powerful union on the world
i say, he should get head every day if it could make him a better leader
and you dont think he was the 1st to have sexual favors in the white house do you?
-
no..he was the first to get caught in a manner where he couldnt get out of it quietly.
-
Or when that land is really important..its called murder or accidental death
again, its called due process
ask the cherokee indans about this
but he\'s not the one that made a big deal out of it
the media did. we did.
he was prepared to go on like any other day, and why not?
-
Originally posted by mm
again, its called due process
ask the cherokee indans about this
but he\'s not the one that made a big deal out of it
the media did. we did.
he was prepared to go on like any other day, and why not?
Maybe he should ask Darwin about it.
Everybody displaces something for survival.
-
Originally posted by mm
again, its called due process
ask the cherokee indans about this
but he\'s not the one that made a big deal out of it
the media did. we did.
he was prepared to go on like any other day, and why not?
Like I said..murder.......
I didnt say he did..was more a government bashing
-
yes, we speak of darwin
the man who turned to christ on his deathbed
luckee, how can we bash the govt, when we\'re to blame for it?
-
Originally posted by mm
yes, we speak of darwin
the man who turned to christ on his deathbed
luckee, how can we bash the govt, when we\'re to blame for it?
Who wouldn\'t, the idea of Christ is a lot nicer than just dieing. But survival is something we see every day. Now its the government displacing our personal freedoms.
-
very easily..and we all arent to blame for it. for example..if I voted for bush and bush ****s something up..yup..partially my fault..but what happens when some ppl you didnt even vote for **** things up..not your fault.
on a side note..isnt that part of being american? Blaming everything on someone else when it becomes convenient for you?
-
Originally posted by luckee
very easily..and we all arent to blame for it. for example..if I voted for bush and bush ****s something up..yup..partially my fault..but what happens when some ppl you didnt even vote for **** things up..not your fault.
on a side note..isnt that part of being american? Blaming everything on someone else when it becomes convenient for you?
Like voting matters... popular vote is worthless. Too many Americans act victumized, they don\'t realize they are holding the bottle of vinegar.
-
Originally posted by PahnCrD
Who wouldn\'t, the idea of Christ is a lot nicer than just dieing.
I wouldnt..if ive gotten to that point..nothing is going to make me feel better.
-
Originally posted by luckee
I wouldnt..if ive gotten to that point..nothing is going to make me feel better.
yeah dieing sucks... what did you mean?
-
yes, im not talking about voting
im talking about DOING something
whats stopping us, the youth of the nation, from becoming them?
nothing, except our lazy, following, hypocritical selves
but then again, the last US politician to try and change the system ended up getting killed by a patsy
-
Originally posted by mm
yes, im not talking about voting
im talking about DOING something
whats stopping us, the youth of the nation, from becoming them?
nothing, except our lazy, following, hypocritical selves
I do something, when I can.... when i am not strugliing just to survive. Thats the way the government likes it. If you can just eek out a descent life, than yer complacent... but don\'t have enough time on your hands to start questioning.
and chances are if you are rich... yer probably vested.
-
change from outside is almost futile unless you have many following.
-
Originally posted by PahnCrD
yeah dieing sucks... what did you mean?
I meant that I wouldnt change to looking for god on my deathbed. Im already dying..Im about to find out if "IT" exsists or not. Even if I call out to him..unlikely I would be accepted seeing how I only just accepted him 10 minutes before dying :)
-
Originally posted by luckee
change from outside is almost futile unless you have many following.
libertarians are the 3rd largest party with over 300 in office... so we\'re getting thier..
Its called a silent cout de tat
-
indeed
not me, im more the type to wait and see what happens
like greenpeace says; "Think globably, Act locally"
but its more like noone will listen to you, unless yer holding a weapon
"bullet lavolta. The Gun Didn\'t Know I Was Loaded "
-
you hit the nails on the head on both posts.
-
Originally posted by luckee
I meant that I wouldnt change to looking for god on my deathbed. Im already dying..Im about to find out if "IT" exsists or not. Even if I call out to him..unlikely I would be accepted seeing how I only just accepted him 10 minutes before dying :)
I am no church going holy roller by any means... i don\'t believe in any classical religion (or new age) or athiesm or agnostic... But i can\'t say with any convicition how I will feel while facing my death. And I don\'t believe anyone can.
-
That is true...so as of now..I will say that though. I doubt things will change..Im quite stubborn :) even when it is possibly for my own good.
-
things will never change
ask charles whitman
-
My post was to point one thing out. The legal system needs reworked. The death penatly was suppose to be used a detterant (sp?) and it obviously does not deter people from crimes. Then you take in the racism factor, and you find that it is truly flawed. Of course, the legal system needs reworked beyond that, just like these child support cases.
As for anyone who is in love with this country - I\'m sorry for them. Like MM said, we live in a policed state, nothing more. We like to think we have freedom of speech, but do we? No. You can post something on the highway that says "Jesus is our friend", but can you post something that says "Satan rocks!"? Most likely, no. It would be deemed offensive.
Fact is, this whole country and goverment is in a rut. We are use to suing for what we want and when that doesn\'t work , invading and killing. We are use to the goverment making all the choices for us and us believing we have some control over it - when in reality we don\'t.
There has been plenty of groups who want to make a change or fear the goverment. What happens to them? They\'re shut down, silenced or burned down.
We also waste countless money on trivial things like our President\'s sex life. Why does that matter? It shouldn\'t. He is entitled to a sex life, for christ sake. But, instead, we tax the hard working people and proceed to waste all that tax money on expensive trials.
I personally, am not proud to be an American and never have been.
;)
-
*applause*
-
Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
My post was to point one thing out. The legal system needs reworked. The death penatly was suppose to be used a detterant (sp?) and it obviously does not deter people from crimes. Then you take in the racism factor, and you find that it is truly flawed. Of course, the legal system needs reworked beyond that, just like these child support cases.
As for anyone who is in love with this country - I\'m sorry for them. Like MM said, we live in a policed state, nothing more. We like to think we have freedom of speech, but do we? No. You can post something on the highway that says "Jesus is our friend", but can you post something that says "Satan rocks!"? Most likely, no. It would be deemed offensive.
Fact is, this whole country and goverment is in a rut. We are use to suing for what we want and when that doesn\'t work , invading and killing. We are use to the goverment making all the choices for us and us believing we have some control over it - when in reality we don\'t.
There has been plenty of groups who want to make a change or fear the goverment. What happens to them? They\'re shut down, silenced or burned down.
We also waste countless money on trivial things like our President\'s sex life. Why does that matter? It shouldn\'t. He is entitled to a sex life, for christ sake. But, instead, we tax the hard working people and proceed to waste all that tax money on expensive trials.
I personally, am not proud to be an American and never have been.
;)
I am proud... and thats why this crap the government does is anti American.
-
Im not condoning terrorist attacks..but LIC\'s post pretty much summed up some large reasons why so many dislike the US enough to sabotage it.
-
Now let me ask you this LIC. If you are so strongly against how things are done here, what do you do to change it?
-
i wouldnt say they dislike the US as a whole. just what we do outside
if we didnt fund and support Isreal all those years, i wonder if 9/11 could have been avoided
that seems to be thier only grief, along with most of anti-US countries
we try to be the world police, and do a shitty job at that
**
he doesnt have to change it boz
he spoke out, and thats more than most can do
his kids will be the ones to change it
-
other than shitty..its not our business to do so.
-
I was just wondering because he has strong opinions on the matter.
-
dont we all?
-
LIC is a terrorist!!!!!!!!!! (https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F216.40.241.68%2Fcontrib%2Fedoom%2Fsmiley_laser_beam.gif&hash=4ca6973677e51abdcc41077c48d2017e9a2f3642)
-
strong opinions dont necessarily mean one has to do something other than preaching their word.
-
Remember I said JUST WONDERING. And don\'t take this the wrong way but what is the point of forming an opinion on it and telling it to everyone if your not going to do anything to change it.
-
Well..Ill assume you know how powerful words can be(hitler) Words are the most powerful weapon in the world. Look how often a post in this little forum are often seen with so many interpretations.
-
Yes, your right about that. But only telling us about these problems wouldn\'t change anything at all.
-
How contrary..you would be surprised. Like I said b4..hitler..he was quite the motivational speaker.
-
Before you know it PSX2CENTRAL is going to take over the world, all hail leader LIC. *Boz salutes the master* :D
-
Good, solider, Boz!
I\'m amazed by the conclusion that I\'m a terrorist, by Vivi.
Not a terrorist, just an honest American who see\'s a lot of problems with the current legal system and goverment.
I\'m with MM, the last political person to think outside of the box was killed.
-
Here ya go LIC
Im not condoning terrorist attacks..but LIC\'s post pretty much summed up some large reasons why so many dislike the US enough to sabotage it.
This is probably where Vivi got the whole terrorist thing from.
-
Thanks, Boz. I didn\'t see that part.
I should note, I do not support terrorism.
There we go, everyone happy?
;)
-
It twaz ah joke!
-
Originally posted by Bozco
Yes, your right about that. But only telling us about these problems wouldn\'t change anything at all.
It\'ll change how you look at the world. And in turn you will effect others.
There will be a revolution... but it will be a social one. People need to learn that they can live without government holding their hand every step.
People are scared to be free. But that will change
-
Amazingly enough that makes sense.