PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Black Samurai on September 12, 2002, 03:21:39 PM
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Let me preface this by saying that anyone who is easily offended or sensitive about the events that transpired on Sept. 11 2001 might not want to read this thread.
Ok, now I was looking at another sight and they were talking about some other people less than tasteful views/thoughts about 9/11 and they reminded me of some of the things that went through my head that day. If you had some thoughts about that day or event that would normally be frowned upon post them in here. Now here are mine:
- When I was watching the attacks transpire on CNN and MSNBC and listening to the wild speculation by the talking heads about the hundreds of planes that were still in the air and how they were all potential weapons. I really wanted to attacks to be a lot bigger. I don\'t know why but for some reason I wanted it to be a really large scale attack. I envisioned planes crashing in every major city. Maybe I was so fascinated by acts of war that I had never seen outside of a movie that after the WTC fell I wanted something else to happen to keep the action going? I don\'t know.
- I never liked cops. Firemen are cool. Cops? Hell no. BTW, I really don\'t care if any of you are cops or related to cops. I still don\'t like em. Unless mm is a cop; because in that case Cops are the shizznit.
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i dont understand why people are so hatefull of the police
its a frickin job just like any other
you might as well hate yer local garbageman in the same way
its ridiculous
get a grip. if you hate the cops cause they are "busting" on you, then they probably have good reason to
if the cops werent there, what would we have?
they protect yer very, precious life
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I can see the flaming of me will now be focused on Gohan...
btw, I hate my garbage man.
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Originally posted by mm
i dont understand why people are so hatefull of the police
its a frickin job just like any other
you might as well hate yer local garbageman in the same way
its ridiculous
Cops treated me and a couple friends like trash when I was really young and I\'ll never forget it. F*ck a cop.
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yeah, say that when yer in trouble and you go crying to them
yer real tough
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People hate cops because they are one of the groups they can directly see doing things they don\'t like. Most cops are good people, who do a great job and are there to protect us. Unfortunately, there are always exceptions, and they create a bad name for the rest of the people in the profession.
Just look at theomen. He\'s a cop in training, and he goes around raping people :)
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Originally posted by mm
yeah, say that when yer in trouble and you go crying to them
yer real tough
I never said I was tough, prick. I said I don\'t like cops. I don\'t like you that much am I homophobic?
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you think police are the only trade thats like that?
like every denny\'s line cook does his job to 100% and doesnt spit in yer food when hes in a foul mood.
or every bank teller doesnt laugh to herself when you bounce a check.
think of it this way, yer the cop\'s customer, and customers suck no matter what.
no worries gohan, its teen angst you feel
i understand
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Damn Gohan WTF is up with you today? Did a cop anally rape your mother or something?
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Originally posted by mm
you think police are the only trade thats like that?
like every denny\'s line cook does his job to 100% and doesnt spit in yer food when hes in a foul mood.
or every bank teller doesnt laugh to herself when you bounce a check.
think of it this way, yer the cop\'s customer, and customers suck no matter what.
no worries gohan, its teen angst you feel
i understand
Of course I don\'t. The cops are just an obvious case of it. Now if you\'ll excuse me, I\'m going to go yell at some IRS employees.
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now yer thinking
IRS (specifially h&r block)
now there\'s a group of people that want to rape you once a year, possibly even twice
and dont get me started on the DMV
THE most unhappiest bunch if employees on the face of the earth
you would think its thier pennace to work there
and the post office!? *head explodes*
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I know what yer saying Gohan. When I was younger I got jumped by this black guy, now I hate all black people! They need to go back to Africa!
(incase someone\'s retarded, the above was sarcasm)
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Originally posted by mm
and dont get me started on the DMV
THE most unhappiest bunch if employees on the face of the earth
you would think its thier pennace to work there
and the post office!? *head explodes*
*Kills something*. I happen to have an intense hatred for the DMV :(
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I know that most cops help people, and I certainly am not happy about some cops dying in the WTC attack. However, no cop has ever helped me with anything. They have only hassled me for no reason. They have annoyed me, made fun of me, given my friends tickets for meaningless traffic violations that were in no way endangering anyone, and basically abused their authority on countless occasions.
The unfortunate situation is that US Law Enforcement attracts a certain type of personality, which happens to be exactly the type of personality that you DON\'T want doing that job. I think many cops have authority issues. Maybe they came from families with abusive fathers, and chaotic home lives. Therefore they feel a need to impose "ORDER" on the world in their own little way. Cops always use the argument that "they\'re risking their lives for us" as a shield whenever criticized for any wrongdoing. They blow away some guy reaching for a candy bar, and then they say "hey we\'re under a lot of pressure... we risk our lives." Well ordinary people shouldn\'t have to risk their lives by having a conversation with a cop.
I think that everyone should be required to do some public service, and law enforcement should be one of the required services. That way we would have more ordinary people working as cops, and not just the people with cop mentalities who volunteered for it.
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/me wonders if he has the cop mentality...then shoots cordweller
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I\'m older than you mm. Respect your elders, son. BTW, The cops are actually our customers. They are supposed to work for us not the other way around.
Omen, that was a bad start and it planted the seed. Its not like cops have done anything to change my views on them since then.
Vapor - My father not my mother. Circus clowns raped my mom which is why I hate pie and seltzer.
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Erm... cops are regular people, and just like regular people, some are good and some are bad. Why be so ignorant of all of them when there\'s a vast number of police officers who would do as much as risk their own lives to save yours? A few of your local cops may have treated you and your friends badly, but those same cops are not the only people on this earth wearing a badge.
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Originally posted by mm
yeah, say that when yer in trouble and you go crying to them
yer real tough
Actually, I believe that we should all take care of our own business to an extent. Id love to pop a few people who hae done me wrong and the justice system has failed.
Erm... cops are regular people, and just like regular people, some are good and some are bad. Why be so ignorant of all of them when there\'s a vast number of police officers who would do as much as risk their own lives to save yours? A few of your local cops may have treated you and your friends badly, but those same cops are not the only people on this earth wearing a badge.-182ways
The same could go the other way. They say how much scum they deal with everday and they dont know which we are. Why shouldnt they give us the benefit of the doubt as we are supposed to?
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our taxes pay thier salaries
we are thier customers
I know what yer saying Gohan. When I was younger I got jumped by this black guy, now I hate all black people! They need to go back to Africa!
ROFL!
total diffuse
well luckee, there would be other religious and moral implications to go out and "pop" someone
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like I give a shit..Im not religious :D If someone wrongs me to an extent I would want to shoot or mame them, I dont think my morals are going to get in the way.
In all honesty though, I see society heading in that direction if the police situation continues on the track that its on now. People are starting to show they are not scared of cops anymore and vice versa.
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Originally posted by theomen
I know what yer saying Gohan. When I was younger I got jumped by this black guy, now I hate all black people! They need to go back to Africa!
Good rebuttal. The only thing is that cops have always been dickheads to me and mine. I know there are good cops out there but I have yet to encounter one.
The same thing could be said about someone getting treated like crap by black people and not meeting a decent black person. If that was the case who am I to tell them to not dislike black people? If they met one black dude and he was an ass it doesn\'t make sense for them to hate all black people. I have lived in some pretty bad neighborhoods and met/encountered a lot of cops.
On that same note, the worst cops I have met were in "nice" neighborhoods.
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funny, that has been my experiance as well..the bad ones in the good neighborhoods.
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That\'s because the ones in the "nice" neighborhoods might be more bored, and looking to do something with their job.
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Originally posted by 182Ways
Erm... cops are regular people, and just like regular people, some are good and some are bad. Why be so ignorant of all of them when there\'s a vast number of police officers who would do as much as risk their own lives to save yours? A few of your local cops may have treated you and your friends badly, but those same cops are not the only people on this earth wearing a badge.
Couldn\'t agree more.
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People are starting to show they are not scared of cops anymore
is that why jails are bulging with criminals?
ive never had a problem with cops
maybe i know the values of common courtesy and respect
if cops picked on you, you gave them reason to
its like crying cause the bully is picking on you because he can, when in reality, its yer fault
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Just because one cop or a certain group of cops is mean doesn\'t make them all dickheads. And because you feel this way I\'m sure your an ass back to them when you meet each one now.
Gohan I have respect for you as a poster so don\'t take anything too serious. Just pointing things out.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
That\'s because the ones in the "nice" neighborhoods might be more bored, and looking to do something with their job.
Yea..looking to harass ppl for no good reason.
is that why jails are bulging with criminals?
ive never had a problem with cops
maybe i know the values of common courtesy and respect
if cops picked on you, you gave them reason to
its like crying cause the bully is picking on you because he can, when in reality, its yer fault-mm
No, that is why more and more are getting shot at, shot, and killed. The same reason they are shooting more innocent ppl, b/c they are scared.
I have never heard a more ignorant comment from you..ok..well I have..but anywho "if cops picked on you, you gave them reason to"..lemme guess, I shouldnt have been outside? I shouldnt have been driving with all of my correct papers? I shouldnt have been in a nice car? I shouldnt have been a mixed child? I shouldnt have had short hair. I shouldnt have eaten at Chili\'s earlier that day?You tell me.
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you drew attention to yerself
you tell me how
a bully picks out the weakest, most obvious person he can
is that you?
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If you must know..I was more of the bully in terms of screwing with ppl, other than that, no one messed with me.
For someone who pretends to know much about alot, you dont know much at all. Countless times I have been pulled over for NO reason. Many times I have actually done something...no problems with that, unfortunately, many of those times, they were also dickheads for no reason when nothing but courtesy was shown to them.
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Oh god, this thread over again. I got too heated in the last one. I\'m just going to say this argument won\'t end.
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It could if the cop lovers could understand that not everyone has to like every cop..or in gohans case..cops period. If ppl could get it through their heads that ppl get targeted for little or no reason.
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The fact that you clasify people as "cop lovers" since they have some respect is funny. DAMN ME I JOINED THE THREAD
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seriously..join in, you speak volumes when you dont get pissy in a thread :)
On the flip side..funny how I am a cop hater with no respect for the law just b/c I hate many of them.
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I wouldn\'t say you are a "cop hater". But if you didn\'t notice a lot of people don\'t like cops over one bad encounter. And they act as if one bad cop means all cops are bad.
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That is their perrogative though. Alot of ppl fail to realize that while you all are voicing your opinions about what kind of person they are or assume how they carry themselves with law enforcement that said person is also not entitled to their opinions.
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion but it gets worse when people bad mouth someone as respected as a cop. I agree that some cops are bad but going around saying they all are bad over one experience is rather ignorant.
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Of course it is, so let them wallow in their ignorance instead of stooping down to their level :)
At the same time, if all a person has been around has been one type of person, of course that is all they know and why they have those thoughts...
I know there are plenty of good ones, I have met quite a few and know a small handful personally..doesnt change the fact that I believe most to be corrupt pigs and when I encounter one, that is the 1st thought through my mind. It by no means dictates my attitude towards them though. Sorta of a smile in their face, talk behind their back thing. Once they show whicht ype they are, then that inner voice/opinion of them may or may not change
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All the cops I\'ve ever met were pretty nice I thought(about 5, 2 that arrested me). They would talk to me in a nice voice and would answer any of my questions. They even told me how to become a police officer. I guess Gohan just got unlucky with the cops he met. I do have a huge problem with cops/anyone who abuse their authority though.
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Well, I live in Bethlehem, which is near Albany NY. There is one cop on the force that EVERYONE hates. Officer Vunk. He literally gives out as many tickets as the rest of the police force combined. Those are the types of people who give cops a bad name.
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By saying you find MOST to be corrupt is what keeps me going on this, I really just don\'t see this.
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So um.....any OTHER politically incorrect views on 9/11?
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I guess it just depends on the areas we have been around. What size area do you live in? Hell any major city in ohio is small compared to what im used to ;) So of course I would run into more cops,increasing my chances of running into more dirty pigs.
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The fact that I\'m tired of hearing about it on the news 24/7. I feel bad saying that but they are beating it to death.
Originally posted by luckee
What size area do you live in? Hell any major city in ohio is small compared to what im used to ;)
I live in Columbus, 15th biggest city in the US. Thank you very much. :p
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Originally posted by Gohan
So um.....any OTHER politically incorrect views on 9/11?
No, you\'re just a sicko. ;)
Honestly, considering the number of people I know who live in that city, and work in that area, my mind wasn\'t really on things like that.
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I just love how the media wants to burn this into peoples heads for 367 days, as if the actual day last year was not enough to last in our memories for ever.
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Argh, I hate to see this excellent thread go off course, but it tends to happen with heated topics like racism and religion. Anyway, I applaud you Gohan, for having the guts to start a thread like this. I think everyone has had politically incorrect thoughts about 9/11, but as "touchy" as the subject is, no one has really said anything. I have had one incorrect thought for awhile now: the death toll. All the victims, and especially the victims\' families and loved ones have my deepest sympathies, but I remember hearing that something like 20,000 people worked in the WTC. When they were estimating the toll at 2-3k, I was kind of, well...disappointed. I thought tens of thousands were killed. This does NOT mean I WISH that many were killed. It was just a thought I\'ve had. Sue me.
Miscellaneous complaints about 9/11:
-People stopped sending money to local charities and non-profits, and sent to the 9/11 fund instead. Trust me, 9/11 has had/is going to have plenty of funding. The non-profit adoption (older kids, not infants) agency I work for just laid off more than half of their staff due to lack of funding. We no longer have an adoption program for older/hard to adopt kids. It is like this everywhere.
-Dammit, I hate the dumbasses who just now (9/11/01)decide to be patriotic, but let their flags sit outside in the dark and rain, and have a few red, white, and blue threads left on their car antenna.
-Fuggin\' media. 9/11 has been more profitable for them than the superbowl. Oh, let me guess, they\'re donating their profits to the 9/11 fund. Insert rolleyes here.
-Firefighters are brave and invaluable people, no doubt about it. But does every firefighter in america deserve a moment of silence, or eyes dropping solemnly to the floor when they announce their profession?
-I\'m gonna get it for this one, but...I hope everyone saw what a nation of cowards we are. 3 planes hi-jacked successfully by freakin\' utility knives. The people who fought back on the Pennsylvania flight are true heroes.
Well, I hope I didn\'t make any enemies with this post. I realize I would probably have a different perspective if a loved one died in the attacks.
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Once again, I have to agree with sara. You have mentioned alot that has bugged me since then..even down to the death thing. I cant say Im happy it was "only 2-3k, since that is still alot. I guess I just imagined it would be so much higher since I believe a total of 50k or so ppl worked in both towers. Plus various visitors..etc.
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Originally posted by Sara
-Dammit, I hate the dumbasses who just now (9/11/01)decide to be patriotic, but let their flags sit outside in the dark and rain, and have a few red, white, and blue threads left on their car antenna.
It does seem rather stupid for people to just do this now but it takes something like this to really open peoples eyes on things.
-I\'m gonna get it for this one, but...I hope everyone saw what a nation of cowards we are. 3 planes hi-jacked successfully by freakin\' utility knives. The people who fought back on the Pennsylvania flight are true heroes.
I agree. How the hell did they take over a plane full of people with box cutters?
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Anyone remember maybe a week or two ago when I made the comment about "pansy americans", well that was a big reason.
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-I\'m gonna get it for this one, but...I hope everyone saw what a nation of cowards we are. 3 planes hi-jacked successfully by freakin\' utility knives. The people who fought back on the Pennsylvania flight are true heroes.
We\'re cowards? I might agree with that comment more if you were talking about the years before 9/11, but not at all when you say we\'re cowards because of some of the things that happened on that day. Have you considered how many people alone not only risked their lives to save others inside those two towers, but also how many people sacrificed their own lives when helping those that were in need? I can\'t even begin to imagine the amount of courage that was in the hearts of the firemen, police, rescue workers, and especially the victims...
Yeah, three of the four planes that had been hijacked were flown into the WTC and Pentagon, but how do you know that all the people on those flights were -- from beginning to end -- cowering in fear without ever trying to neutralize the terrorists (read: true cowards) onboard? We\'ll never know the level of bravery that existed inside those planes, but I find it insulting that you\'d write off our country as a bunch of cowards when your reasoning is not backed by anything you can really consider "fact."
Or maybe I misunderstood your statement.
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*yawn*
everything happens for a reason
cause and effect
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182ways shes basically saying that all those people on the planes who just let the plane hit the towers aren\'t heroes because they died.
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Well, I\'d agree with that to an extent, Bozco. Those that stood back without hope and no intentions of trying to take down the terrorists should be remembered, not praised as heroes. The only problem is that nobody really knows who did what on those planes.
But even if nothing had been done on either of the flights that hit the buildings, it\'s no reason to consider our country as cowardly. In my mind, we\'ve been anything but cowards since that day.
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Yea, I don\'t agree with how they worded it.
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Originally posted by 182Ways
We\'re cowards? I might agree with that comment more if you were talking about the years before 9/11, but not at all when you say we\'re cowards because of some of the things that happened on that day.
My comment definitely includes pre-9/11. The loss of life due to (in part) a dozen or so box cutters just brought it to everyone\'s attention, or should have. I am however, confident that no one will ever be able to take over a plane with 1-2" blades on a U.S. flight again.
It\'s just part of my standard rant that Americans are afraid to defend themselves, and that our own government discourages us from doing so with gun control BS, lawsuits against victims of crime, etc.
p.s. - If anyone desires to debate about gun conrol, please start a new thread and keep this one on topic.
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Originally posted by Sara
It\'s just part of my standard rant that Americans are afraid to defend themselves, and that our own government discourages us from doing so with gun control BS, lawsuits against victims of crime, etc.
I agree, just recently some home owner was charged with manslaughter after stabbing the buglar, he is now facing a possible life sentence.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-411040,00.html/
sad stuff when you cant even defend your home and possible loved ones.
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Bloody hell, I missed the cop debate. Damnit, just because I had to go help some orphans I missed a great debate. Well that\'s the last time I help anyone.
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By the way folks... Because of my military connections and various military brat friends around the world, let me inform you that there is an extremely large chance that the Pennsylvania flight was shot down by a fighter pilot. The "hero" story of taking it down themselves was a mere cover up so people can have something to feel good about...
Just wanted to tell you...
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Do you guys think that the firefighters would have gone into the building if they knew it was about to collapse? I\'m not saying they wouldn\'t have its just that people were so quick to canonize them.
Am I the only one who wishes they could have been in NY to see it all in person? To see the people jumping and the buildings actually collapse must have been an experience.
I think I just want something to break the monotony of every day life. Life is so freaking boring school/sleep/party/repeat. Gawd will they just freaking draft me already!!!! The apocalypse is taking way to long to get here, Let\'s Roll!!!
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I was thinking that with 20 years of planning, they could have trained more people to fly, taken larger jets, nailed far bigger targets, and made all of America look like a warzone in the span of about 20 minutes. With 20 years of planning, I could have done far worse without a doubt including bombs on city buses planted in nearly every major city, suit case bombs tossed into trash cans, and suicide bombings into crowded fast food establishments. You think 9/11 was bad? Just imagine if the Terrorists were actually seriously ambitious.
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/me kills Ryu as a safety precausion
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-Dammit, I hate the dumbasses who just now (9/11/01)decide to be patriotic, but let their flags sit outside in the dark and rain, and have a few red, white, and blue threads left on their car antenna. - Sara
Exactly. I REFUSE to hang a flag or wear a pin to show my "american spirit". I jus keep on doing what I have been. Watching History channel specials on America\'s past, listening to Civil War music, and speaking from the heart. I love this country, and I don\'t need no flag waving around to show how guilty I feel for not being more "patriotic" before 9/11.
-Fuggin\' media. 9/11 has been more profitable for them than the superbowl. Oh, let me guess, they\'re donating their profits to the 9/11 fund. Insert rolleyes here. - Sara
Heh, I agree 100%. No need for further detail, jus read any of the posts I\'ve been making in other 9/11 threads.
-I\'m gonna get it for this one, but...I hope everyone saw what a nation of cowards we are. 3 planes hi-jacked successfully by freakin\' utility knives. The people who fought back on the Pennsylvania flight are true heroes. - Sara
Oh I agree here too. Actually, I think Post 9/11 has shown jus how big of cowards we are on the whole. Yes, there\'s a quite a few brave souls who dropped everything - risking their jobs - to drive up to New York for a few weeks and help dig out the rubble and bring food, people who were at the recruiters office the next day signing up for the military, and other such acts. On the whole tho.. we\'ve been running around like a bunch of f*cking chickens screaming about how the sky is falling.. pissing away our freedoms one by one so that big daddy gov\'t can look out for us and keep us safe from terrorism. Pfft. Yes, what happened was a great tragedy. But jus think at how BIG this country is.. and how many people live here. These terrorists could have picked much -MUCH - more strategic targets like oil reserves or nuclear power plants and caused death and destruction on a MASSIVE scale. Remember the confusion and pandemonium caused over one cell phone sattelite going haywire? If they\'d have knocked out 4 of the six nuclear power plants that supply the east coast and midwest with power.. we\'d have been totally screwed. Remember how much damage was being estimated by Y2k if it would have happened? Well that\'s basically the equivilent right there. We don\'t know how to live without electricity anymore.. we\'re so wired that if anything happened to our power supply it would be catastrophic.
Don\'t fool yourselves. The terrorists didn\'t "Wound" America. Hell it was barely a pinscratch compaired what our Nation consists of. Yet everyone\'s running around scared like it\'s the end of the frickin world. Give me a break.. makes me feel almost ashamed to be American if I\'m grouped with such cowards. Afraid to fly.. pfft. Christ people, grow a pair. Or hell, jus be cowards and hole yourself away in your homes and be paranoid of the outside world. You\'re 1,000,000 times more likely to get injured or killed sitting at home than of dying in a terrorist attack.
Oh, and just to add a lil bit to the cop argument. You guys are right.. they are jus like everyone else in the workforce. They\'re jus doing their jobs. Take a look at your co-workers tho.. that\'s the same with cops. I can\'t speak for everywhere, but around here anyhow you can speed 60 miles over the limit at the beginning of the month.. but at the end of the month when quota time comes around you\'d better make sure you\'re ass STAYS at 55. Also, jus like someone who\'s been on any job long enough.. you start thinking that you know your job, and you become arrogant in your experience. That tends to make dickheads more often than not.. expecially when you add in a bit of authoritative power in the mix.
Cops (IMO) are a mixed bag.. jus like everyone else. Take em on a case by case basis.. cause alot of them are pretty awesome and understanding people who take pride in helping people out and protecting their communities. Others, see it only as they\'re job.. and you\'re nothing to them but another step closer to filling their quota for that month.
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as i said
just like any job
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Gohan, your really starting to piss me off lately with your ridiculous posts.
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/me slaps himself for being on topic
I have never met a \'bad\' cop. Perhaps it\'s just the different culture or something, but all the cops I\'ve ever met have been nice and understanding people. Sure I think there are moron cops, just like in every other profession. But they aren\'t the majority - by far.
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Originally posted by Bozco
182ways shes basically saying that all those people on the planes who just let the plane hit the towers aren\'t heroes because they died.
The people that were on those planes that hit the towers thought it was just a hijacking. How could they have had any idea that the hijackers were going to ram the planes into the buildings on a suicide mission? I am sure if they knew what was going to happen they would have tried to do something. If I remember correctly - the hijackers told them to remain calm and everything would be ok - this was according to cell phone conversations with the passengers prior to the planes crashing. Even I have to agree the use of hero is thrown around way to much in reference to 9/11.
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Originally posted by Vapor Snake
By the way folks... Because of my military connections and various military brat friends around the world, let me inform you that there is an extremely large chance that the Pennsylvania flight was shot down by a fighter pilot. The "hero" story of taking it down themselves was a mere cover up so people can have something to feel good about...
Just wanted to tell you...
This is "conspiracy theroy" BS!
You people and your feeble minds are working overtime. This whole thread is full of nonsense.
orginally posted by SonyFan Yet everyone\'s running around scared like it\'s the end of the frickin world. Give me a break.. makes me feel almost ashamed to be American if I\'m grouped with such cowards. Afraid to fly.. pfft. Christ people, grow a pair. Or hell, jus be cowards and hole yourself away in your homes and be paranoid of the outside world. You\'re 1,000,000 times more likely to get injured or killed sitting at home than of dying in a terrorist attack.
Way to throw "almost" in there so you don\'t look more pathetic than you already are. Tell you what, if you\'re ashamed of being an American. Pack your fuk!n bags and catch the next flight out.
Hell bring console debating back and close off-topic. IT\'S FILLED WITH GARBAGE ANYWAYS.
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yadda yadda crap yadda
Who cares, it\'s OT anyway.
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when i watched the events that morning of 9/11
a single reported DID announce that the flight over shanksville was shot down, and that was the last thing she said
they quickly cut to another reporter and the incident was never mentioned again
conspiracy does exist whether you want to acknowledge it or not
the US govt would LOVE to get those id trackers in us, but if it wasnt for relisgious implication, they would do it
i have never considered myself a true american
one would have to love his country and govt without doubt to be one of those
i love my country just like any citizen i guess, but i hate my govt and will denounce and fight them every step of the way
i\'d rather classify myself as an earthling
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Originally posted by mm
i\'d rather classify myself as an earthling
Ditto. I hate it when people get overly patriotic. Sure I like my country, but it\'s not like I just love EVERY little thing about it. These more or less invisible boundries are not good for anything IMO. So in effect I consider myself a child of the world, then "my" country.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Gohan, your really starting to piss me off lately with your ridiculous posts.
:rolleyes: Please don\'t hurt me Hulk "Slippery Soap" Hogan.
Dajo, Sonyfan said he was almost ashamed to be an American because of the way the people were acting. Running around scared like Frenchmen, it was pathetic.
This is WAAAAY off topic; but does ANYONE agree with going to war on Iraq?
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Originally posted by Gohan
This is WAAAAY off topic; but does ANYONE agree with going to war on Iraq?
Well, bombing 3rd world dictators is always great fun, and it fuels the economics. So what the hell, let\'s bomb him. :D
Then again, war isn\'t always something to take lightly... people get pissed; innocents get hurt. I can\'t say I want to pursue either option 100%.
EDIT: LOL @ Hulk "Slippery Soap" Hogan!
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Originally posted by mm
a single reported DID announce that the flight over shanksville was shot down, and that was the last thing she said
they quickly cut to another reporter and the incident was never mentioned again
I remember that also.
Originally posted by mm
the US govt would LOVE to get those id trackers in us, but if it wasnt for relisgious implication, they would do it
They are trying so hard too. Remember when they were talking about putting ID trackers in children to help find them if they were kidnapped? I don\'t remember them saying anything about taking them out at a certain point.
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This shouldn\'t surpise you - but yes I agree with attacking Iraq. We should have finished the job during Desert Storm in the first place.
It is funny how history repeats itself. The US and Britain were aware of Germany\'s military stockpiling, but did nothing about it and look what happened. My question to those that think we shouldn\'t is:
Should we wait until Iraq has a nuclear weapon and uses it?
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Should we wait until Iraq has a nuclear weapon and uses it?
That depends... if he\'s just gonna nuke some useless place (like Australia) then it\'d be ok to wait and THEN attack him.*
*Don\'t get a hissy fit Racer, I was merely joking :D
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Originally posted by mm
when i watched the events that morning of 9/11
a single reported DID announce that the flight over shanksville was shot down, and that was the last thing she said
they quickly cut to another reporter and the incident was never mentioned again
conspiracy does exist whether you want to acknowledge it or not
the US govt would LOVE to get those id trackers in us, but if it wasnt for relisgious implication, they would do it
i have never considered myself a true american
one would have to love his country and govt without doubt to be one of those
i love my country just like any citizen i guess, but i hate my govt and will denounce and fight them every step of the way
i\'d rather classify myself as an earthling
I don\'t see what the big deal is about whether it crashed or was shot down? Either way it had to come down or it would have hit the Capitol. I heard it reported at first that it was shot down then it was changed to a crash. Either way the people on board DID try and retake the plane. That is a undisputable.
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Giga - Do you really think the US wants to attack Iraq over a nuclear weapon? Of all the hostile countries that are stockpiling weapons and could get nuclear weapons we want to attack Iraq? Were they not stockpiling weapons a year ago? Did they just start during the "War on terror" to make it convenient for us? Why is it SO important now? Thats what I don\'t understand and why is it only important to the US to attack Iraq?
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Originally posted by Samwise
That depends... if he\'s just gonna nuke some useless place (like Australia) then it\'d be ok to wait and THEN attack him.*
*Don\'t get a hissy fit Racer, I was merely joking :D
Heh I would prefer France... but too much fallout in the rest of Europe... ;)
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Either way the people on board DID try and retake the plane. That is a undisputable.
How is that indisputable?
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Originally posted by Gohan
^^^Do you really think the US wants to attack Iraq over a nuclear weapon? Of all the hostile countries that are stockpiling weapons and could get nuclear weapons we want to attack Iraq? Were they not stockpiling weapons a year ago? Did they just start during the "War on terror" to make it convenient for us? Why is it SO important now? Thats what I don\'t understand and why is it only important to the US to attack Iraq?
Hussein is madman - I doubt anyone can dispute this. He has used chemical weapons on the Iranians and his own countrymen. What is to stop him from setting off a nuke in the west? The reason for attacking now is to stop him from completing his goal of acquiring a nuke. He is close - how close I do not know. Just imagine if a western city (US or Europe) was hit with a nuclear weapon. I would bet everyone on this board would be saying "We should have attacked Iraq". I think the main reason for an attack now is to prevent a possible event in the future. Did anyone think the Germans would have started another World War 25 years after being defeated in the first one? Chamberlain didn\'t...
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Originally posted by Gohan
How is that indisputable?
You just didn\'t ask that did you? Flight recorders - cell phone calls. Are you saying the CIA or some organization doctored those as well? Please...
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Well.... it\'s known that Saddam has been trying to make nuclear bombs forever (decades at least). So yeah, you have to wonder why it\'s so important to go to war NOW...
...either way it would of course be nice to stop his mass destruction weapons (but nobody should fool themselves into thinking this is in anyway a new problem).
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Originally posted by Samwise
Well.... it\'s known that Saddam has been trying to make nuclear bombs forever (decades at least). So yeah, you have to wonder why it\'s so important to go to war NOW...
...either way it would of course be nice to stop his mass destruction weapons (but nobody should fool themselves into thinking this is in anyway a new problem).
Exactly! It isn\'t a new problem, that is why I think we stopped short in Desert Storm.
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The thing that bothers me about this though, look how many others have ICBM\'s and WOMD. Bush is jumping to attack them, not yet anyway. Most of the countries that do have them "seem" to be lead by sensible leaders, but even still. Look at India and Pakistan, neither leader is all that stable, look how close they have come to using nukes on each other. If they did, that would certainly drag other countries in and sooner or later WWIII erupts.
My question is when do we stop attacking people that pose a "threat" That could technically be any country on any given day.
As for takin Saddam himself out, Id much rather have him in their. At least we know what to expect from him for the most part. Its his kids I am worried about who would more than likely take over in the event of his fathers death. They say his kids are 3 times as evil as dear old dad.
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Originally posted by luckee
The thing that bothers me about this though, look how many others have ICBM\'s and WOMD. Bush is jumping to attack them, not yet anyway. Most of the countries that do have them "seem" to be lead by sensible leaders, but even still. Look at India and Pakistan, neither leader is all that stable, look how close they have come to using nukes on each other. If they did, that would certainly drag other countries in and sooner or later WWIII erupts.
My question is when do we stop attacking people that pose a "threat" That could technically be any country on any given day.
As for takin Saddam himself out, Id much rather have him in their. At least we know what to expect from him for the most part. Its his kids I am worried about who would more than likely take over in the event of his fathers death. They say his kids are 3 times as evil as dear old dad.
You are right about his kids. The two sons are even worse. The oldest is a complete nut job who survived an assasination attempt (I think by his younger brother), but the younger one is more subtle and is in line to succeed him - he is much more dangerous due to his calm demeanor.
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I don\'t think we should go to war with Iraq. Not at THIS moment anyhow. I agree that we should have taken care of all this buisness the first time around instead of pullin our asses out and leaving our arab "allies" with their asses hanging in the wind, which is causing quite a bit of the reluctance and distrust of the US now.
Anyhow, he does need to be removed. No doubt about that. There should be two conditions to this. 1.
We must have UN support. Going it alone will jus piss off our allies and strain our already tense forigen policies even more.. perhaps to the breaking point. We\'re already seen as a bunch of "Might makes Right" bullies.. and that\'s going to bite us in the ass one of these days when we really need forigen help. I mean, simple fact, we\'re no longer the super-industrial nation we were durring WWII. We\'re more of a Information/Service based economy who outsources all their industry to other countries like China or Mexico. What if they decide to close their borders and not do buisness with us.. or limit their trade because they\'re afraid of a destabalized MiddleEast which will restrict their Oil inports?
2. We can\'t charge in with our battle trumpets blaring. If we do anything, it\'ll have to be a sudden and swift attack to take out his Bio/Chem weapon facilities. Otherwise, we could be in real trouble. He already knows he\'s outmatched. His army is only a small fraction of what it used to be, while our military has grown exponecially in both size and effectiveness. He knows he\'s going to loose his weapons if he gets attacked. Well, we already know he\'s nuts enough to use them. It wouldn\'t be much to just "Flush" his entire stockpile out to various terrorist groups who are "supposedly" in Iraq right now. Use em or loose em.. and despite all the post 9/11 re-organizing we\'re not bulletproof here. What if someone sneaks in and detonates a crude bomb laced with VX in the middle of TimesSquare or other major metropolitan city?
It\'s just a bad - BAD- idea right now. At least with UN support we could mislead them into thinking an attack was inpending but still a ways off... then hit em.. HARD.. with the support of several nations militaries backing us up so that we make sure we\'ve got most or all of them in one massive simutanious attack. Not to mention they\'ll have a much harder time smuggling them out of the middle-east if our European and Pacific allies are on full alert for us.