PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => PS3 Discussion => Topic started by: Titan on September 28, 2002, 12:46:16 PM
-
Which would improve my PS2 picture and quality, Svideo or Component? I\'ve been researching and getting mixed reviews and wondering if anyone triend them.
-
it actaully depends on the TV...........the bigger the tv the more you can tell the difernce........I have a 15" Toshiba with component...... and it looks GOOD! It looks even better on a 21"!
S-video doesnt split the video channels............component does into 3 channels.
:hat:ScottyJ:hat:
-
component is better. If your tv have a component input. Buy a component cable. Component seperate black and white, blue, and red color while s-video only seperate b/w and color. SO Component gives out cleaner image and more color definition.
-
RGB is the best over both S and Component
RGB only comes in scart though. Most hi end TV\'s/monitors/plasma screens should have an input.
-
Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
RGB is the best over both S and Component
RGB only comes in scart though. Most hi end TV\'s/monitors/plasma screens should have an input.
I don\'t think TV\'s in the US have scart sockets racer. It is just PAL TV\'s that have this.
-
Exactly, RGB for EU and component for US.
RGB is a little bit better than componenet.
-
RGB is ideal for game. I think the reason why most U. S. TV doesn\'t have RGB input but rather a YUV probably the engineer make it only for watching movies, videos...movies are recorded in YUV(component video) format to save bandwidth because RGB requires too much memory. Video games run at RGB quality and engineer probably didn\'t think video games is a major thing for tv so i guess RCA company just go the old fashion way.
If you\'re curious. RGB stand for RED, GREEN, and, BLUE. It\'s the best like someone said compare to YUV but the human eye couldn\'t tell much of a different between the two when watching video or even playing video games something about human eyes have more rod shapes pupil than oval shapes...i don\'t know...whatever.
-
RGB is also split on your VGA monitors. Hi end TVs & projectors have RGB-H/V inputs as well. You can\'t tell a difference between component and RGB.
But by all means S-vdieo blows both away. It\'s so beautiful!! For a step up try composite connections which is the most expensive. And if you\'re super rich try out RF connection which puts the video and audio on same signal.
And always remember the more the wire costs the better the picture will be.
-
As long as your not playing with RF switches and A/V cables you will get a really sharp clean picture. Vga, s-video and the component cables are all top notch stuff. They arent expensive either so you could even get all of the connections and try them all by yourself. For some reason i always end up with all sorts of cables for my consoles and once in awhile i hook them up differently just for the heck of it.
Astro
-
Low quality -> high quality
RF -> A/V -> S-video -> Component -> RGB
-
dont think you get in usa, but scart , that s what ive found the best
-
Originally posted by THX
RGB is also split on your VGA monitors. Hi end TVs & projectors have RGB-H/V inputs as well. You can\'t tell a difference between component and RGB.
But by all means S-vdieo blows both away. It\'s so beautiful!! For a step up try composite connections which is the most expensive. And if you\'re super rich try out RF connection which puts the video and audio on same signal.
And always remember the more the wire costs the better the picture will be.
Whatever THX said....hehehehehhahahaheheheheh!!!
-
THX,
You are so completely wrong. Svideo is no where NEAR the quality of RGB, and component it still not as good as RGB either.
RGB is the best of the best. Games are designed to be played useing RGB format.
Also, some USA televisions DO have RGB inputs.
-
Racer, I think THX was being sarcastic. If you couldn\'t figure it out, perhaps you didn\'t see "And always remember the more the wire costs the better the picture will be."
And yes, some tvs have RGB inputs.
To say RGB is better than component is saying that Pepsi is better than Cola. Pepsi IS cola... SO how can it be better?
RGB splits the signal up into seperate colors with the sync on green usually. RGBHV has a seperate Sync channel. YUV is a luminance-chrominance transformation where each wire carries different aspects of the signal and is combined at the end. But these are all component.
And unless you have a kick ass TV you aren\'t going to tell the difference between S-Video and RGB.
-
Vid, I was being sarcastic as well... \'you are so completely wrong\'...
Well, I use a 50 inch SONY monitor (we use it as a TV). Playing via composite, svideo and RGB, there is a big difference between the three.
RGB really \'cleans\' the picture up compared to svideo, and the colours are alot more defined and contrasted. The only downside to RGN is it makes aliasing worse in some games (and better in others) because its so clean and clear.
-
I upgrade from composite to S-Video and never looked back since!
Too bad I can\'t find any RGB cables for PS2. Anyone knows any online store I can get from?
-
You are probably right Racer, I don\'t have RGB inputs on my tv. Just the full RGBHV so I am out of it without an adapter and it\'s not worth it to me. I did notice quite a difference between composite and S-Vid though
-
I saw some tests and the results were
1,2,3,4
(SCART) RGB>Component>S-Video>Composite
-
Um, what is the difference between component and RGB? Could someone please explain this to me? I\'ll give you a cookie.
-
Originally posted by Videoholic
Um, what is the difference between component and RGB? Could someone please explain this to me? I\'ll give you a cookie.
I have no idea.. Ill try to find the page again where they explain everything and show graphs from the tests.
I remember there was very little difference from component and RGB. You would never be able to tell the difference by looking at a screen.
-
My question is kind of sarcastic since RGB IS Component. It\'s seperating video into seperate "Components". As I wrote before it\'s just one of the forms of component.
-
Originally posted by Videoholic
My question is kind of sarcastic since RGB IS Component. It\'s seperating video into seperate "Components". As I wrote before it\'s just one of the forms of component.
not quite.
A 24 bits RGB VGA monitor carries up to 16.8 million of different kinds of color. 8 bits on Red, Blue, and Green. They 100% full bandwidth.
On the other hand component video, also known as Y pb pr (y cb cr) or YUV is different. Engineer know that human eyes can hardly tell much of a different so they split RGB to YUV. Y is luminance, or a combination of RGB, full bandwidth but it\'s only composite(it\'s a shade of 256 greyscale between black and white). U is blue, but only scan half bandwidth. V is red, but like blue, it\'s only scan half bandwidth. There is no green since is mostly been share with Y(luminance or a combination of RGB). Most component video run at 4:2:2 bandwidth. 4 on Y, 2 on U, and 2 on V. Y is full bandwidth, and 59% of 4 Y is green signal and about 30% is Red and the remaining 11% is blue, that\'s only for Y. Reason why red and blue is less than green is because they have seperated on U and V. So, why did engineer went all the trouble for this? to save bandwidth! Also, if you look at a digital camcorder like MiniDV or D8, you be surprise that they are recorded in a 4:1:1 YUV bandwidth. red and blue are being seperated at a quarter bandwidth instead half or full. Why? To save even more bandwidth!
I am probably confusing you guys. But overall, RGB is still better than YUV but it\'s really hard to tell the difference when watching video or playing games.
-
Also, had anyone watch Star Wars: Attack of the Clone? The movie is recorded from a high definition digital camcorder that runs at a 3:1:1 YUV format! So, 75% of the bandwidth is Y(luminance), 25% on U(chrominance Blue), 25% V(chrominance red). That\'s lower than consumer digital comcorder. Since is run in 1920 x 1080 resolution, the quality is higher than consumer 720 x 480 resolution. Not only that, the compression on the movie attack of the clone is about 7:1. That\'s higher than consumer digital camcorder which compress only 5:1. Compression means taking out informaiton, the less compression, the more detail the picture.
I remember watching attack of the clone and realize that the color bandwidth doesn\'t look as high and the picture seem somewhat blurry due to high compression. I compare that to my experience watching Spider Man and I realize spider man picture quality is much, much sharper and more detail and true to life. No compression, great natural color defintion. Duh! Spider Man is filmed on a 35mm camera and nothing beats film quality. Digital have gone a far way, but film is still better.
-
Originally posted by Videoholic
My question is kind of sarcastic since RGB IS Component. It\'s seperating video into seperate "Components". As I wrote before it\'s just one of the forms of component.
Well that site still stated that (SCART) RGB was better than component :)
I searched for the site but I found nothing.. (:crying: I want my bookmarks back!!)
Paul2: Thanks, nice to know.. I gotta check what you said about Spiderman VS Star Wars AoTC ;)
-
Also, DVD MOVIES are recorded in component (Y:U:V) format. That\'s why Almost all American DVD players have Component Video output instead of RGB type. Interesting thing is DVD use MPEG-2. MPEG-2 works differently in component than consumer digital camcorder (like MiniDV). They\'re recorded in 4:2:0 format. You probably think that 4 on Y, 2 on U, and 0 on V. Wrong. MPEG-2 is more complex than that. It\'s 4 on Y, and 2 on both U and V (1 each though). There are on the same scanline. This is the format well known in Europe as it\'s the case with their digital camcorder, too. I will check out some pictures and post them to show you what I mean. Why did MPEG-2 make YUV even more complex? The reason was that 4:2:0 works better in a progressive scan video while 4:1:1 works better in interlaced video. People who created MPEG-2 intended to use it for a progressive scan motion picture. Film in theaters is progressive at 24fps, so transferring to DVD save a little bit more space as DVD player and MPEG-2 can scan up to 30fps.
Unfortunately, MPEG-2 isn\'t as flexible as it should be. video runs in interlaced such as music videos, tv show, etc. won\'t look as good in MPEG-2 as progressive scan video. It\'s better if MPEG-2 can do both 4:2:0 and 4:1:1, but no.
-
Paul2, I understand all that. Brings me back to my college days, but I\'ve been in it long enough, heh... I know there is a difference between the two and I know RGB is better than YPbPr, but I was just stating that they are both still considered component video.
Nice little technical explaination though. I need to go get some of my text books out of the closet.
-
I never heard of RGB. Well, my tv is a Panasonic 32" (it was pretty cheap when we got it) if that helps. I guess I\'ll go with component then. My picture of the games doesn\'t look too impessive with the standard video jacks. Thanks guys.
-
here are some example of component video from a MiniDV digital camcorder.
4:2:2 Y:U:V sampling
http://www.adamwilt.com/422.gif
4:1:1 Y:U:V sampling (american & japanese version)
http://www.adamwilt.com/411.gif
4:2:0 Y:U:V sampling (co-sited) (europe version)
http://www.adamwilt.com/420.gif
Note that this is different from the 4:2:0 chroma sample positioning in JPEG, MPEG, and H.261 formats!
here is the site:
http://www.adamwilt.com/pix-sampling.html
I will post DVD MPEG-2 sampling later.
-
here is the dvd mpeg-2 compression
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/images/chroma-figure-3.jpg
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/images/chroma-figure-4.jpg
the site:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html
-
Edit- actually read all that stuff Paul posted, great info! I can see you\'ve been doing your homework Paul, I remember when you first came here you were asking us questions. Now it\'s the opposite! :laughing:
So what do you think will be the first HD-DVD format? You think it will be 50gig MPEG-4 Blu-ray or the drummed up version of MPEG-2 that will just be a bigger sized disc allowing more data of the same ol format to be stored (poop).
-
I\'ve never tried component but I have tried RGB and S-video and there\'s a world of difference between those two. RGB is so much better, I don\'t think the picture could get any sharper and cleaner than that.
First time I tried RGB was with Shenmue, and it actually looked like a different game, couldn\'t believe how good it looked in RGB glory.
-
So has anyone tried to hook their PS2 to theri monitors yet?
I might want to try to see those games that support progressive scan.
What do you call those cables again? Is it easily available? Any online shops u know?
-
I have that Redant adapter that let\'s you hook the PS2 up to a VGA monitor. It looks like crap, but it works. I didn\'t buy it to make the graphics pop-up, but just for the sake of convenience, playing Tekken on the monitor while I watch Conan or Whose Line is it Anyway.
It\'s not a true VGA signal but it\'s just a line doubler converting 15.75kHz interlaced to a fakey 31.5kHz progressive. I think the real deal is only available if you purchase the full Linux kit.
-
I think I saw a site somewhere that described how you could make your own VGA cable for PS2.
Anyways Tekken4 can be played on a monitor if you got the VGA cable.
I think your monitor must support Sync-On-Green (SOG) also.
-
Originally posted by THX
So what do you think will be the first HD-DVD format? You think it will be 50gig MPEG-4 Blu-ray or the drummed up version of MPEG-2 that will just be a bigger sized disc allowing more data of the same ol format to be stored (poop).
I think THX major in sound, so THX knows more stuff in sound than I do. Anyway, I think you got messed up with HD-DVD format. You ask if it\'s 50 gig MPEG-4 blue ray thing...Let me clear up the confusion.
1) MPEG-2 compress less than MPEG-4, so MPEG-2 give much better picture quality. HDTV tuner highest resolution is in MPEG-2 with 19.4 megabits per second. DVD highest video transfer is 8 mbits per second. MPEG-4 is compress more and it\'s ideal for internet and that\'s why sony is thinking of streamind HD video in broadband with MPEG-4 instead of MPEG-2. Just because MPEG-4 number is bigger, doesn\'t mean it\'s better.
2) I think next generation HD-DVD format will be a 27 gigabytes MPEG-2 compression. If dual layer, it will be a total of 50 gigabytes. 4 gbytes was sacrifice for changing layer and slightly larger pits...you\'re correct about blue ray laser thingy. Panasonic, show a prototype of this format somewhere in Spring of this year. If you want the site. I will post it later.
3) some companies go backward with next generation HD-dvd format. Those companies doesn\'t have the money or something so they will still use the current infrared red laser (one that was in the current dvd player we are using) and the current dvd 4.7 gigabytes with MPEG-4 compression for high definition. Think of it as SVCD vs. DVD quality.
Hope I clear up the confusion between Mpeg-2 and Mpeg-4.
-
here is the site if you are interested (gotta love panasonic and their motto, just slightly ahead of time).
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hot_topics/articledisplay.asp?ArticleID=111
here are some good info quotes
Because every new format seems to set off a format war, we were a little surprised when nine major electronics manufacturers announced that they actually agreed on what the next-generation recordable optical-disc format should be. Christened the Blu-ray Disc, the new blue-laser-based format provides for 27 gigabytes (GB) of data on a single side, which is enough for 13 hours of standard-definition video or 2 hours of HDTV; the standard also calls for dual-layer, 50-GB discs. Although prototype discs were displayed in protective caddies, as shown at left, the final plan might call for bare discs.
The Blu-ray system’s high-speed data-transfer rate (36 megabits per second) will allow it to record and simultaneously play back prerecorded high-definition video. Licensing for the format is scheduled to start this spring, but recorders aren’t expected to make it to market for as long as five years. Although each Blu-ray disc will contain a unique ID to be used for copyright protection, it’s not clear whether Hollywood studios will line up behind the format.
here is another one:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hot_topics/articledisplay.asp?ArticleID=109
-
I know this is an old thread, but I just got a new TV. Is there a cable to hook up my PS2 to the YPbPr inputs? How would I hook up my stereo reciever with the component set?
-
Hah, while you\'re at it I\'ll throw Paul\'s quotes back at him. ;)
Originally posted by Paul2
1) MPEG-2 compress less than MPEG-4, so MPEG-2 give much better picture quality. HDTV tuner highest resolution is in MPEG-2 with 19.4 megabits per second. DVD highest video transfer is 8 mbits per second. MPEG-4 is compress more and it\'s ideal for internet and that\'s why sony is thinking of streamind HD video in broadband with MPEG-4 instead of MPEG-2. Just because MPEG-4 number is bigger, doesn\'t mean it\'s better.
Negative. Mpeg-4 > Mpeg-2. Mpeg4 variants can achieve the same quality as mpeg2 at half the bitrate, which is saying something. The key thought here is it doesn\'t do more compression, but *better* compression. Mpeg-2 does block encoding which is about 2 decades old. Everything now is either Wavelet or Corona (such as MS\'s WM9).
2) I think next generation HD-DVD format will be a 27 gigabytes MPEG-2 compression. If dual layer, it will be a total of 50 gigabytes. 4 gbytes was sacrifice for changing layer and slightly larger pits...you\'re correct about blue ray laser thingy. Panasonic, show a prototype of this format somewhere in Spring of this year. If you want the site. I will post it later.
You were actually pretty close here, though HD-DVD won\'t be going this route but Sony\'s Blu-ray is. Only reason they chose to stick with mpeg-2 is for recoding functions since HDTV is unfortunately sticking with that wasteful codec. Satellite provider VOOM in the USA however is streaming out Mpeg-4 material, allowing them to broadcast 30 HD channels, no one else does this.
3) some companies go backward with next generation HD-dvd format. Those companies doesn\'t have the money or something so they will still use the current infrared red laser (one that was in the current dvd player we are using) and the current dvd 4.7 gigabytes with MPEG-4 compression for high definition. Think of it as SVCD vs. DVD quality.
This was scaring us nerds for a while but it never happened. Both camps are going blue laser.
Stapler- There are lots of Component PS2 cables that output stereo analog as well too. (example (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051826268509&skuId=5413938&type=product)). If your receiver has an optical input you can use the Toslink jack on the back for a pure digital connection to your receiver.
-
THX,
that was over a year and a half ago. Bring back old topic...hmm...
That time i thought Mpeg-2 is better than Mpeg-4. But it seems like Mpeg-4 is a better codec.
But overall from some tests:
WM9 > MPEG4 > MPEG-2 > MPEG-1
and WM9 is comparable to DiVX...
but I prefer WM9 over DIVX because in some tests, the video quality of WM9 looks better than DIVX.
There, I think Voom is using WM9 instead of MPEG-4 like you said...hahaha.
-
I would like to correct something about YUV (component video) versus RGB.
As videoholic posted in late 2002, he was right about Component equal RGB.
I told him not quite because component video is 4:2:2 YUV sampling. But I find out component can go full bandwidth.
It can do 4:3:3 YUV sampling and 4:4:4 Y:U:V sampling.
The 4:4:4 YUV sampling equal the color bandwidth of 8:8:8 bits RGB.
So, if you are playing ps2, using component video cable should give you the quality of RGB. Also, but PS2 MPEG-2 video like full motion video CG, is 4:2:0. I think, the 4:2:0 will upconvert to 4:4:4 or maybe 4:2:2, either is fine. but doesn\'t mean it will get the color bandwidth of 4:4:4, its just that it upconvert it so we can watch it. Unfortunatley, Playstation 2 doesn\'t upconvert 4:2:0 nicely and you may get color red and blue smear also known as chroma bugs. But at the ps2 price point and it was first made in year 2000, this a pretty decent video quality as it is.
-
I actually didn\'t bring the topic back up (that was stap), just saw your post and my boredom took over. :crap: Sorry, as Smokey would say, "Why you bringin up up old sh*t?"
There\'s a debate of WM9 vs mpeg-4 (and probably always will be). They each have their pros and cons, I like how Xvid is more open source and you can easily plug it in to editing programs such as Vdub or even Premiere.
I just did a search and it seems that Voom is indeed making the switch to WM9, but it will take some time for them to upgrade all their hardware. I\'m thinking it will also mean new cable boxes to all users. I was wrong about them streaming out mpeg-4 now, it\'s still just mpeg-2. They\'re saying around or over 60 HD channels with WM9. :eek:
-
Haha (sorry couldn\'t help laughing at you),
So, I am right about Voom going to use WM9.
Again, WM9 is way greater than MPEG-4.
it been tested before, from some tests Joe Kane once did, he use MPEG-2 and WM9 to compressed a high definition video of a rose.
On MPEG-2, the rose petals blooms into a full blown rose. As the rose bloom, the MPEG-2 artififacts are very noticable. The red artifacts are there. It seem like the video is running at 24 Mbits per second.
On Window Media 9, the rose petals blooms with no noticable color artifacts. Which mean WM9 is a way better compressor than MPEG-2 and compress and handle fast motion really well. As good as DiVX, and in some cases better. And I believe the bitrate is only about 9.6 Mbits of video.
Look it this way, 9.6 Mbits WM9 high def outperform 24 Mbits (coudl be 28 Mbits) of MPEG-2. And both are High definition.
Again, many experts had told me how great WM9 are. they say is a very aggresive compressor and very flexible too. It could be compress as a lossless to lossy, but it requires a lot of CPU power to do that.
So again,
WM9 > MPEG-4
another test was shown that MPEG-4 is very bad and pale in comparison to WM9. Even DiVX outpeform MPEG-4 easily. So, it seems like only DiVx is a very close competitor to WM9.
-
Cant be bothered reading the thread.
RGB is better then both component or svideo, except RGB doesn\'t support progressive scan.
I find RGB gives much sharper picture over component and the colours are better.
-
Videoholic once said Component give the same picture quality as RGB.
He is pretty much correct about it.
RGB = Component Video if its output as 4:4:4 YUV sampling. In other word, each sampling equal 2 bits. 4 + 4 + 4 = 12 x 2 = 24 bits.
24 Bits RGB (8 bits each) pretty have the same color bandwidth as 4:4:4 YUV sampling.
The only way YUV isn\'t as good as RGB if its output less than 4:4:4. Say 4:3:3 or 4:2:2, or 4:1:1....
But my guess the sony ps2 component video is outputting 4:4:4 YUV sampling for videogames.
Also Racer, you are wrong about RGB doesn\'t support Progressive scan because its does. Computer monitors uses RGB and look at it, progressive scan but scan at higher Hz than HDTV, mine is running at 75 Hz, although I could go to 85 Hz or higher...
all non interlaced, aka progressive...
-
I always thought RGB and Component were the same thing. I have my ps2 hooked up through a component cable (Red, Green, Blue), I figured RGB was just an abbreviation.
I learn something new every day
-
Paul, have you actually CREATED any WM9 material yourself? How about any mpeg-4? I do all the time. To say one is so much better than the other is poppycock.
WM9
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doom9.org%2Fimages%2Fcodecs%2Fspr%2Fspr-wm9-14479.jpg&hash=68b28b68b7b26ad05bc561436152703a0dd00632)
Xvid
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doom9.org%2Fimages%2Fcodecs2%2Fspr-xvid-14479.jpg&hash=6ce2d509132d429b2ca6d749b8c6118662a5b514)
You\'d be hard pressed to tell me WM9 stomps mpeg-4 in this SS, I\'d even say Xvid retains the colors better, not to mention you can make out the letters on the boat. Check out Doom9\'s codec comparisons (who also prefer mpeg-4 over WM9). The thing is the Mpeg-4 derivatives are always getting updates, while WM9 sits in the same build forever.
Component is not the same thing as RGB. With component you have sync on green. RGBH/V is video in its purest form. Thing is no one can tell the difference and component is just as capable for hi-def material.
ps- forgot to add this:
So again,
WM9 > MPEG-4
another test was shown that MPEG-4 is very bad and pale in comparison to WM9. Even DiVX outpeform MPEG-4 easily. So, it seems like only DiVx is a very close competitor to WM9.
Divx IS a form of mpeg-4 you goofball.
-
Then if RGB supports progressive scan then why can I not play, for instance, Tekken 4, in progressive scan with my Sony CRT? This is also going through an Extron scaler.
It doesn\'t even give me the option, yet when I play with component I can.
I\'m not saying your wrong, i\'d just like to know why its not working if it theoritically CAN, because RGB does look better IMO. Maybe I have a dodgy component cable or a really, really good RGB one.
-
Extron scaler.. egad your pappa has some cash to spare.
I\'m not sure of all the hookups you aussies have (SCART or is that just Euro?), but RGB most certainly supports progressive scan. Your monitor is progressive scan and the VGA cable going to it is sending an RGBH/V signal. What video connections are available on the Aussie PS2, or are you using some sort of adapter?
-
Hmmm...
I remember a website that test WM9, DivX4?, and MPEG-4.
From the look of it, WM9 outperform MPEG-4.
Also, THX, what bitrate is the compressor of th XVid is running comparing to WM9?
Because from a website,
they tested the Matrix compressed from WM9, MPEG-4, and Divx. All compressed to the same bitrate and resolution for a fair comparison.
They make two tests.
The three codecs at 1 Mbits running at 720 x 480 DVD resolution.
and another one at 512 Kbits.
another test is three codecs running at 1 Mbits running at 320 x 240 or a quarter resolution of DVD.
and another 1 at 512 Kbits.
From the test, of course the original looks the best. Then WM9 look better than the other 3 codecs. But in some cases DIVX look just as good as WM9 or a bit better while other tests, WM9 look a bit better than DIVX.
But MPEG-4 look worst on all the tests. MPEG-4 look very bad. Especiall scenes with fast motion where it have trouble compression it well.
And I believe all of the three tests are running at 24 fps.