PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Unicron! on October 07, 2002, 11:17:12 AM
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Many people have been complaining about how PS2 was overhyped,not able to offer CGI quality graphics,that tech demos were just....tech demos,its AA uncapability,its limited VRAM etc....
Now it offers the games Sony has promised.Ok not the Toy Story graphics Kutaragi said(anyone with no graphical knowledge could have made the same mistaken description) but we are getting CGI quality real time graphics,streaming VRAM proved to be more capable(just see DMC2 or SH3),we get anti aliasing,real life like graphics(Moto Gp3,SH3,WRC2,AC4,GT3 and lets see how GT4 might look),huge worlds(Rachet and Clank,Haven=a solar system to exlpore) and tech demos look out dated compared to the newer games......
PS2 got so many attacks when it was launched,so many criticism,so much underestimation and since then I ve been trying(including some others) to tell to some people that what we were getting would be nothing compared to the next gen games.
I ve even made a 2 or 3 similar threads comparing the tech demos with full games and posted many replys in threads in the past trying to convince the PS2 was not as overhyped as people thought(or some wanted to beleive).
Now I would like to see present opinions about PS2.Is it the console that offered us games like Summoner,Bouncer,Primal Image,Oni,RRV and a ton of others that made u say"thats nice" "that sucks" "My DC can do better than this"?
Or the console that makes u :eek:?
It has improved a lot than people expected.
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I am not sure if it was ever underestimated except for the first half year. Since then everythign picked up and is strong.
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it was to be expected that it would take time for devs to exploit the ins and outs of the EE engine and PS2\'s architecture
its not like the xbox or DC where it had everything out on the table right away
*moving to console discussion
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It is a known fact that the ps2 has always be more difficult to program for than other consoles previously. This is why it has taken a while for the devs to fully understand the ps2 architeture and to get the best out of it.
Things are certainly looking rosy in the future and there are some execellent games right around the corner.
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Sony knew what the PS2 would offer when getting good performance out of it.The newer unexplored architecture was a risky move by Sony but it proved to be be a positive thing later on as we see the biggest and most improvements in each generation of games that come to the PS2.
We certainly never saw that gap between the generation of titles on PSX.
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It\'s into this third year of being, and it\'s just NOW beginning to live up to the hype with only a handful of games. That\'s pitiful.. no matter the excuse. If it\'d taken one to two years to start really exploiting the system.. fine.. that\'s pretty understandable... but good god the PS2 could barely live up to even it\'s most basic promises until just recently. When will everybody be able to catch on and make spectacular looking games like Konami, Namco, and Polyphony??
I\'m surprised more of you aren\'t upset over this.. but eh.. that\'s you\'re choice.
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It\'s okay...it\'s not my choice console, but nothing is. I play games, doesn\'t matter what console they\'re on.
I do think it\'s rather astounding it\'s taken developers so long to get something better out of it. Honestly, was it worth the wait? Was it worth the different architecture?
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PS2 = new technology, new programming language which made all game developers a newbie. ;)
Xbox = using current but powerful hardware to out muscle the PS2 in the short run. Also used current programming language. Game developers were experienced with it from the get go.
After 2.5 years since the Japanese launch, the PS2 games are maturing and beginning to outshine the "pretty" Xbox games. But the PS2 games had always been more fun and diverse. Hence....the 35 million PS2 owners on this planet. (I heard aliens took another 5 million to their solar system, Alpha Centauri ;) )
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*reads ninety percent of the garbage in thread*
*looks at Ginko\'s and Sony\'s comments.*
Amen, brother\'s. You all speak the truth.
P.S - I\'d like to know how the PS2 was the "underestimated" console, when infact it was a frickin\' hype machine that was overestimated , if anything.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
*reads ninety percent of the garbage in thread*
*looks at Ginko\'s and Sony\'s comments.*
Amen, brother\'s. You all speak the truth.
P.S - I\'d like to know how the PS2 was the "underestimated" console, when infact it was a frickin\' hype machine that was overestimated , if anything.
Mine was the 10% that made sense. :D
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
PS2 = new technology, new programming language which made all game developers a newbie. ;)
And what does the PS2 have to show for it?
Xbox = using current but powerful hardware to out muscle the PS2 in the short run. Also used current programming language. Game developers were experienced with it from the get go.
And it\'s not even a year old.
After 2.5 years since the Japanese launch, the PS2 games are maturing and beginning to outshine the "pretty" Xbox games. But the PS2 games had always been more fun and diverse. Hence....the 35 million PS2 owners on this planet. (I heard aliens took another 5 million to their solar system, Alpha Centauri ;) )
Again, you talk as if the Xbox has been out long enough to gauge just how "pretty" Xbox games can be. Fun is subjective and diversity comes with time.
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PS2 under hyped? Now thats funny..............................
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Gman, you don\'t need to tell me.. hell those are the same points I\'ve used to justify why the PS2 isn\'t preforming as well as it\'s contemporaries or even up to it\'s own potential. Sony KNEW damned well going into this generation that they\'re console was a pain in the ass to develop for by even skilled programmers.. and next to hopeless for newbies or development houses which don\'t have the cash to sink into learning their machine.
This is why I say 1 to 2 years of dealing with sub-standard graphics quality is fine.. however, Sony should have been busting their asses to provide documentation and lessons on how to program the PS2. While they have provided some rather intriguing and enlightening documentation.. it\'s nowhere NEAR the librarys of info and tools they SHOULD have been releasing. They built the damned thing.. shouldn\'t they know exactly how to program it for optimum preformance right from the get-go? Who the hell creates a piece of computer hardware that they themselves don\'t even know how to work??!?
No-one was expecting them to have excellent graphics right from the get go.. at least.. anyone with common sence in their heads. But when you go for nearly 3 years on a piece of hardware that\'s just NOW overcomming the graphics standard across the board that a console which launched in 1999 set... common sence should tell you something else. (Yes, I know there were games like MGS2 that met graphical expectations and set the bar further.. however those were EXTREMELY few and far between until just recently.)
Was the new hardware archetecture really worth it? Chances are, we\'re NEVER going to see the PS2\'s full potential because this generation will be long over by the time it gets fully exploited... and Sony is probably going to end up dropping this archetecture for something with bang for their buck since they cannot afford to have this poor of a showing next generation if they plan on staying the market leader.
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Well....I\'m just going by results. Xbox does have prettier games. Are they more enjoyable? Not most of them. A few. They look pretty though. Sure there are crappy games on PS2. Lots. But as gamers, you weed out the bad ones and get the good games. That\'s a given.
Overall, I\'m happy with the games I got for my PS2 and GC. When I think of a game, I think of the enjoyment I got out of it. Not really the graphics. Hell, I think Animal Crossing is one ugly looking game....but I still play it and enjoy it.
I think the point of Unicron was whether the PS2 is THE console of this generation. It is. It\'s got plenty of enjoyable games with many more coming to it. Plus, now that develepors are getting used to the language, it\'s starting to look prettier too. :)
I can\'t make you like rock\'n\'roll over country music that is the Xbox. That\'s your opinion. Right now, I am pocketing my reserve stub for GTA : Vice City and anticipate the release of V-Rally 3 as I fall asleep(it\'s nearly 1am here)....later, I might dream about The Getaway. :p
Full potential of the PS2? Oh I don\'t know....maybe when WRC2 is out, we\'ll see some of it. BTW, that\'s only on PS2! ;)
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Xbox does have prettier games. Are they more enjoyable? Not most of them. - Gman
First of all, that\'s a matter of opinion. Secondly, that\'s not the point. No-one is arguing gameplay quality.. we\'re talking graphics here. As far as game content and the sheer amount of enjoyable games, the PS2 has by far lived up to my expectations. I\'m sure most everyone else would agree. It\'s everything else about it that has me dissapointed.
Noone\'s saying that these problems make the PS2 unenjoyable to play.. but it is pathetic that it\'s having these problems even so late in it\'s lifespan.
Remember, Gamplay > Graphics. Always has been, always will be. (Unless you\'re raistlin. ;) j/k )
*Note: Tho I would like to see more original and unique concepts out of the PS2.. games like ICO, Fatal Frame, Fable, PDO, Ecco, JGR, Animal Crossing, Super Monkey Ball.. ect.)
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Ugh, I thought Fatal Frame was a cash in myself. Uninspired crap. :) You want unique, check out some of Sony\'s 1st party games, such as Fantavision (just ask Hawke ;)) and Rez.
Was it worth the new architecture? Initially, despite the horrible graphics early on 9with few exceptions) I would have said yes. Sony were trying to break away, and I thought it would lead into their next console, with which developers would already be familiar with the architecture. But unless that happens, no, it wasn\'t worth it.
Not that I care, graphics are meaningless :)
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There is no doubt the PS2 was hyped. The most hyped console ever. It was the PC killer to be. However that did not hurt it at all it has surpassed all expectations of its creators.
Sony had the muscle to pull it off. Destroying Sega and subduing Nintendo. Looking back I dont think it has lived up to everything that was promised but in the end they managed to get people behind the wheel.
That is the way to capture the public through promises and hype. But you can be sure of one thing, when you get that big any viable competition is a threat. Athough MS is way behind they too have the muscle to stick around and chip away at that lead. It aint over till... you know.
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PS2, the most hyped console ever?
nope, xbox was
i cannot count how many said it would become the "be all - end all" console
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Originally posted by jiggs
There is no doubt the PS2 was hyped. The most hyped console ever. It was the PC killer to be. However that did not hurt it at all it has surpassed all expectations of its creators.
i don\'t remeber that :( hey maybe i we under a rock at the time
but all i can remember is that the Hype around the PS2 was nothing when compaired to the X box which was launched as "Da PS2 kIller"
in fact i was pushed more to buy a X box at launch by EB and Game staff than i was with the PS2(as well as being told a whole batch of dis-information at the time of the X box launch.
:laughing: funny the demand was always never quite there for the poor EB and Game in order to make their sales.
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PS2 has smashed my expentations.. Even the expentations I had on its graphics.
I never thought GT3 would look as good as it does.. Its still the best looking racer (even over a year after its release).
MGS2.. the boatscene, the rain.. :eek:
Jak and Daxter, the huge loadfree world.. I almost pee\'d my pants when I walked out of the Green Sages hut and saw how far I could see. (the game uses 10-15mpps and that’s @ 60fps.. more than any other Xbox game?)
ICO, this game might not be very advanced techniqually, but it looks super! Art > tech
And then the games that we will see in the future.. This TGS Konami showed Silent Hill 3 and ZOE2.. The two best looking games at TGS! (According to Justin at Tokyopia, ZOE2 looked better than Panzer Dragoon Orta on Xbox.)
And if you read my Performance Analyzer 2 thread in the main forums it prooves that alot of power is still left in our beloved monolith. :fro:
Im a very happy PS2 owner :) (I got 24 games sofar.. Next game Im getting will be Vice City)
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Originally posted by mm
i cannot count how many said it would become the "be all - end all" console
Funny, the same thing was said about PS2.
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and look at the sales charts, still funny?
complete domination and the gap spreads every day
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So predictable, mm. Resorts to sales charts that really don\'t matter in the end.
Regarding the "be-all, end-all" console remark, no console will ever live up to that expectation...ever. Why do you bring it up?
Again, a tired arguement.
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Originally posted by Ginko
So predictable, mm. Resorts to sales charts that really don\'t matter in the end.
Oh yes they do.
Funny, the same thing was said about PS2.
PS2 is the undeniable champ. Therefore the ultimate console ;)
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Originally posted by mm
PS2, the most hyped console ever?
nope, xbox was
i cannot count how many said it would become the "be all - end all" console
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please mm!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me your joking? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
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Sales don\'t matter past a point...GC and Xbox have already passed as being viable consoles. They aren\'t going anywhere, so no...the sales don\'t matter.
PS2 is the undeniable champ. Therefore the ultimate console
I could call it alot of other things...doesn\'t mean it rings true for an individual.
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sales are king
you think xbox2 would see the light of day if US sales were similar to japan sales?
sales are what gives us sequels
look at my beloved shenmue 3. it probably wont come out now (at least not on xbox) cause it will have tepid sales at best
rast, you were one of the unnumerable
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Originally posted by mm
sales are king
you think xbox2 would see the light of day if US sales were similar to japan sales?
sales are what gives us sequels
look at my beloved shenmue 3. it probably wont come out now (at least not on xbox) cause it will have tepid sales at best
rast, you were one of the unnumerable
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.............mm ps2 promise hollywood movie graphics, the systems is so powerful it could lunch missle, ps2 could render and reproduce Star wars EP1 in real-time accoroding to some programmers, playing the playstation 2 is like being in the matrix, need i keep going? I could go all day. PS2 is awesome a great systems but also the most overhyped systems ever perhaps.
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Originally posted by mm
sales are king
To anyone who cares...
you think xbox2 would see the light of day if US sales were similar to japan sales?
I don\'t have to think about it since that is not the case.
sales are what gives us sequels
look at my beloved shenmue 3. it probably wont come out now (at least not on xbox) cause it will have tepid sales at best
Sales have reached a point on all the consoles to make them viable for games and their sequels. There\'s no point in arguing it.
Shenmue is destined to die...much like Jet Grind Radio. Nothing could save it...not even PS2.
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Originally posted by Ginko
Sales don\'t matter past a point...GC and Xbox have already passed as being viable consoles. They aren\'t going anywhere, so no...the sales don\'t matter.
I could call it alot of other things...doesn\'t mean it rings true for an individual.
strange seeing that before the launch of the X box ,both Microsoft and borderline M$ fanboys were saying that sales would near enough speek for themselfs.
and guess what Gatesy
they have (Esp. in Japan):laughing: :laughing:
Oh how quickly Microsoft have ditched that point, and now we had people saying that sales don\'t mean squat, just around the same time the PS2 Sales broke 30 million and the So called War was officaly over . :rolleyes:
the X box An\'t Dead , but its going nowere when it come\'s to even cnarrowing the gap and establishing a user base for the next round (i.e. X box 2 if there is going to be one)
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Originally posted by Ginko
Sales don\'t matter past a point...GC and Xbox have already passed as being viable consoles. They aren\'t going anywhere, so no...the sales don\'t matter.
I could call it alot of other things...doesn\'t mean it rings true for an individual.
Come on dude!
SALES MATTER!
Why else does PS2 have the biggest support? Why else is PS2 the main platform for Capcom, Konami, Namco, EA ect, ect.??
Why else does not Konami want to release SH2 in Europe (they said they wont release it in Europe untill sales improve), why else aint Xbox getting any Japanese titles?
SALES IS Alpha and Omega in the console buisness.
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Again, you resort to sales.
strange seeing that before the launch of the X box ,both Microsoft and borderline M$ fanboys were saying that sales would near enough speek for themselfs.
I hope you aren\'t refering to me. Anyone with a brain would have known it will take a while to close that gap. It won\'t happen any time soon.
the X box An\'t Dead , but its going nowere when it come\'s to even cnarrowing the gap and establishing a user base for the next round (i.e. X box 2 if there is going to be one)
5 million in it\'s first year...that\'s a user base isn\'t it? I think it\'s actually more than MS derserve since they\'ve been slow to pump out the games...they didn\'t have the luxury of a 2 year window to lean on either.
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good lord guys
hype didnt sell 35 million PS2\'s
rast, as usual, yer arguing moot points
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Originally posted by fastson
Come on dude!
SALES MATTER!
Why else does PS2 have the biggest support? Why else is PS2 the main platform for Capcom, Konami, Namco, EA ect, ect.??
Why else does not Konami want to release SH2 in Europe (they said they wont release it in Europe untill sales improve), why else aint Xbox getting any Japanese titles?
SALES IS Alpha and Omega in the console buisness.
You are completely missing my point...
Yay for Sony...I\'m sure that\'s what you wanted to hear, so there. True, PS2 is getting the most support...but Xbox and GC are getting it too.
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Originally posted by mm
good lord guys
hype didnt sell 35 million PS2\'s
I would like to know what sold those first 10 million when there was nothing to play on it for a year. Hype sold those...everyone knew the games were coming, but it sure did take a while.
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nothing to play for a year?
i dunno about you, but i was playing SSX, RR5, summoner, timespitters, smugglers run, and several others at launch.
it was uphill from there
now im not saying it could compete with the DC launch, but PS2 had sevreal A+ titles from the jump, im sorry you didnt realize it
wow, im having deja vu
*on a side note, PLEASE do not bother posting xbox launch titles
i have no care to compare them, and im not trying to do so
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*I wouldn\'t post them...that would lead in another direction that I don\'t care to go.
SSX, RR5, Timesplitters, Summoner, etc...nothing special, in fact they border on mediocre. Those titles did not sell 10 million consoles...hype did.
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Originally posted by Ginko
You are completely missing my point...
Yay for Sony...I\'m sure that\'s what you wanted to hear, so there. True, PS2 is getting the most support...but Xbox and GC are getting it too.
Am I?
Sales matter, and thats the end of it.
Yes, Xbox and GC is getting support.. But not as much as Sony. Guess why?
B I G G E R U S E R B A S E also known as M O R E S A L E S.
More consoles = more potential buyers of [insert developer here]\'s game. (https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmilies.uniquehardware.co.uk%2Fcontrib%2Fedoom%2Fboxing_smiley.gif&hash=b3d8fe4002821a095755d2dc37b0bf2509917a4b)
But sales dont make a game better.. Even if Madden sold X million units I still hate it :)
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Originally posted by mm
good lord guys
hype didnt sell 35 million PS2\'s
rast, as usual, yer arguing moot points
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!:laughing: I"m not talking about sells i\'m talking about which system was hyped more trying to change the subject are we mm? ;)
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lol, so the 1st 10 million PS2\'s were sold just to be looked at?
THOSE games sold the units
ssx and timesplitters mediochre? wow, yer as jaded as i am, its frightening
no rast, that is the subject at hand
sigh
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
PS2 = new technology, new programming language which made all game developers a newbie. ;)
Xbox = using current but powerful hardware to out muscle the PS2 in the short run. Also used current programming language. Game developers were experienced with it from the get go.
It\'s not really new technoligy, just different and not a new programming language either. The PS2 developers had to program in assembly (machine code) which well...is very complicated.
The X-box uses other types of codes that are then compiled into assembly language. Basically a short cut. Keep in mind that Sony has a similiar thing now called VectorC which allows developers to program in C language.....and then suddenly the games start looking better. Coincidance?
And even the Xbox had some assembly programming required, all those lovely pixel shader commands are written in Assembly code AFAIK, it wasn\'t until nVidia released cG that those shaders could be done in an easier way.
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are the devs even using Cg?
i figured everyone (except the linux fans) would lose interest once it went open source
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Actually. What really sold those 10 million PS2\'s in it\'s first year was Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty. Gran Turismo 3, Final Fantasy X Tony Hawks 3 and others also played a major factor. People weren\'t buying the PS2 purely because of the hype, but because of what was to come. Classify that as hype if you will, but I call it anticipation.
Oh, and the launch games may be mediocre (to you) but they are enough to satiate anyones need for gaming while you are waiting for the titles you know you will love. Or you could just go play another system ;)
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I got SSX and Dynasty Warriors 2 on opening day. Both were great games. Plus, a little game called FF9 was just released....and it played on the PS2! :D
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The first 10 million PS2s were sold on a decent selection of games and the absolute success of the PSX. You guys in the Sony suxors camp can (and do) go on forever about hype but do you honestly think the majority of those consumers had any inkling of the Toy-Story-real-time-Star-Wars-rendering buzz of 1999 that you whiners keep blathering about? If so, what kept those \'cutting edge\' 10 mil informed gamers from seeing screen shots and clips of the actual games they would be playing in the foreseeable future? Oh I see, they and another 30 million have all been fooled into still believing photorealistic games on PS2 are just around the corner :rolleyes:
Sales don\'t matter...
that is, unless you\'re a developer trying to turn a dollar
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But sales dont make a game better.. Even if Madden sold X million units I still hate it
And there you have it...I knew you would get it sooner or later.
lol, so the 1st 10 million PS2\'s were sold just to be looked at?
THOSE games sold the units
ssx and timesplitters mediochre? wow, yer as jaded as i am, its frightening
Alright, you made me go here. The Xbox had a very similar lineup that echoed just about every game the PS2 had at launch...where are the sales?
Timesplitters and SSX were nothing special. If summoner 2 is anything to go by, then I\'ll pass on the original for fear of puking at the horrible framerate, the god awful design, and uninspired story.
Come on mm, the DC had a lineup 10x better than the PS2 had. Why didn\'t it sell? The hype wasn\'t there...that\'s why.
People went in expecting something special...disappointment was everywhere. You can\'t tell me you didn\'t fell a little disappointed that your DC was pulling better graphics out of its\' ass...or all the games you mentioned were slop jobs.
Criticism was everywhere...did you just turn your back through the whole thing?
Classify that as hype if you will, but I call it anticipation.
I will:)
Oh, and the launch games may be mediocre (to you) but they are enough to satiate anyones need for gaming while you are waiting for the titles you know you will love. Or you could just go play another system
Waiting for what? FFX was okay...after I figured out the story I likened up to it a bit more, but it\'s not on my favorites list...
YOu know what, I\'m not going to go any further...I see this heading towards a debate of personal taste. Sorry, I\'ll pass.
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the DC failed cause the public didnt trust sega yet again, AND it lacked devs (EA), and focused on niche titles
sounds like the japanese xbox situation, no?
:)
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Originally posted by Heretic
The first 10 million PS2s were sold on a decent selection of games and the absolute success of the PSX.
You guys in the Sony suxors camp can (and do) go on forever about hype but do you honestly think the majority of those consumers had any inkling of the Toy-Story-real-time-Star-Wars-rendering buzz of 1999 that you whiners keep blathering about? If so, what kept those \'cutting edge\' 10 mil informed gamers from seeing screen shots and clips of the actual games they would be playing in the foreseeable future? Oh I see, they and another 30 million have all been fooled into still believing photorealistic games on PS2 are just around the corner :rolleyes:
Okay, you don\'t want to reason...then try this.
Take away PSX...just completely forget about it, and then imagine everyone else forgetting about it. Pretend it didn\'t happen, and the PS2 was Sony\'s first console.
Would PS2 have been met with such success with that "decent" lineup of games?
Try arguing that. It was hype guys...Sony built a whole train of it. Deservedly...yes. The PSX was a smash success.
Sales don\'t matter...
that is, unless you\'re a developer trying to turn a dollar
Oh sure, cut out everything else I have said in that regard. Thanx.:rollreyes:
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Originally posted by mm
the DC failed cause the public didnt trust sega yet again, AND it lacked devs (EA), and focused on niche titles
sounds like the japanese xbox situation, no?
:)
And DC didn\'t have several mountains of cash behind it:)
Public perception...like PSX being a success then everyone buying a PS2 expecting the same. (hype)
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Waiting for what? FFX was okay...after I figured out the story I likened up to it a bit more, but it\'s not on my favorites list...
YOu know what, I\'m not going to go any further...I see this heading towards a debate of personal taste. Sorry, I\'ll pass.
You obviously missed my entire point..
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
Ugh, I thought Fatal Frame was a cash in myself. Uninspired crap. :) You want unique, check out some of Sony\'s 1st party games, such as Fantavision (just ask Hawke ;)) and Rez.
Was it worth the new architecture? Initially, despite the horrible graphics early on 9with few exceptions) I would have said yes. Sony were trying to break away, and I thought it would lead into their next console, with which developers would already be familiar with the architecture. But unless that happens, no, it wasn\'t worth it.
Not that I care, graphics are meaningless :)
Bravo. Fantavision to me was very fun and i always seem to want to go out and rent it. Not only that but if u could get over the jaggies the game was gorgeous. Getting back to the matter at hand, Ps2 is a console that really up-ed the knowledge of programmers and i would really like to see what they could use that knowledge to do. Yes Xbox has beautiful games and i really enjoy the environment that the games put you into. I have no real beef. Yes i was dissapointed in some of the grafix but quite frankly it doesnt matter the world. I mean coming out of a generation of jaggies and poor poly counts im quite content. Its too bad that sony couldnt add like a turbo ram card. If many of the problems came from Ps2\'s short VRAM then thats sad. Im really confused as to why sony made their system such a pain to develop for though. Ps1 was really generous to first time developers and really could bring them into a realm of greatness. Hmmm.... the world may never know. The fact of the matter is that no matter how much we debate minds may not be changed and the ps2 will forever be the same. No better no less.
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Hype sold the PS2 to me. Sure a lot of the games looked like they was goin\' to play well at launch - but they either turned out to be a dissapointment or delayed for quite sometime (hello? Silpheed!?). I have no problems admitting that I bought the PS2, due to the fact that the PSone was a "smash success", as Ginko called it.
As for the launch games - they sucked, in my opinion. I bought at launch..
SSX, Summoner, TimeSplitters,RRV, TTT, Unreal Tourament and ya\' know what? I hated \'em all.
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Originally posted by Ginko
And there you have it...I knew you would get it sooner or later.
I was talking about developers you little peterpuffer :)
To you sales might not matter, but they do to the developers. Thats what I was talking about all along..
:snore:
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Judging by your reply, you knew where I was coming from;)
The whole thread was based on one\'s opinion of PS2...is it the ultimate console.
I\'m sure you know where I stand. I\'m through.
T
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Sales matters. When the devs dumps Xbox games and makes them instead for the 35 million and growing PS2 units, you\'ll understand why it matters. :)
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People seem to be missing Ginko\'s point on the Sales matters issue.
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
...want unique, check out some of Sony\'s 1st party games, such as Fantavision (just ask Hawke ;)) and Rez.
Rrriiight. I think you\'ve mixed up Frequency and Rez there... Rez by Sega :p Gitaroo man is said to be awesome too. hasn\'t come out here yet... :(
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Originally posted by mm
are the devs even using Cg?
i figured everyone (except the linux fans) would lose interest once it went open source
I think smaller developers are using it, but it doesn\'t seem to have caught on like nVidia hoped.
ATi also released their own version of this caller Rendermonkey which hasn\'t gotten alot of publicity.
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Originally posted by Ginko
Judging by your reply, you knew where I was coming from;)
The whole thread was based on one\'s opinion of PS2...is it the ultimate console.
I\'m sure you know where I stand. I\'m through.
T
You said sales dont matter. They matter for the devs, that I think we can agree on, and that’s what I’ve been talking about all along.
Im sure you care about sales alittle, because if a console aint selling its going to die.
lol, he said peterpuffer
;)
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Wait a second here.Many of u people seem to refer to the PS2 as the disappointment it was and how crap it was supposed to be when it was newborn.
The console was judged badly by its first games and many people came to the conclusion it sucked and it would suck.Underestimated by criticism on its launch and first games.How many people said the PS2 was just an overhyped console that couldnt offer cgi quality graphics and graphics seen in the tech demo\'s?Graphics not much better than DC?Now some of u are doing it again in this thread.
Look at what we expected,what we got in launch and what we have now.What do the first games mean while now we have the games the console was promised to offer?
Originally posted by rastalant
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.............mm ps2 promise hollywood movie graphics, the systems is so powerful it could lunch missle, ps2 could render and reproduce Star wars EP1 in real-time accoroding to some programmers, playing the playstation 2 is like being in the matrix, need i keep going? I could go all day. PS2 is awesome a great systems but also the most overhyped systems ever perhaps.
1.When u heard the words "hollywood movie graphics" u expected graphics 100% as good as real life?Huh?Or was it hollywood movie quality titles?
2.Lunch missile....has Sony said that officially?Also the rumor was about multible PS2 chipsets connected together.Not a PS2 being strong enough to do such a thing.
3.Reproduce?Nope.It was said that data from the CGI work done for the movie can be taken to the PS2.Not necessarily in the exact quality seen in the movie.Never said reproduce.I also have a magazine right here with me: ".....exciting news,especially with the follow-on news from a japanese magazine that Lucas not only wants to develop an episode II game for PS2, but that it could even be possible to use the original CG data from the film directly on the PS2".It does not say anywhere Sony said that thing.U said by ur self some programmers said.Also can u tell me which software houses the programers were from?Expectations were so high the media expressed them nearly as facts.
4.That one about Matrix.....or u ve made it up by yourself or someone else expected too much.Sony once again never said that.Or perhaps there was a confusion made with the GScube matrix demonstration.
Most hyped wasnt made directly from Sony but from the highly expectations expressed by media and consumers.
Also here is what the magazine sais "While Harisson was at pains to stress the next gen console was\'t a PC replacement, he did outline a potential upgrade curve for new peripherals that would expand the range of PS2"
"We are not saying that u will plug these devices in, but that u can plug these devices in.We didnt want the future marketing of this machine to be constrained by technology.Thats why we ve adopted these standard interfaces"
Clearly shows Sony never stated PS2 as a could be "PC killer".Again people\'s high excitement was the result of this.
The difference bettween XBOX hype and PS2 hype is that most XBOX hype came from MS while PS2 hype from the people\'s high expectations and excitement.It was the next gen console of the most succesfull console of that time.
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Every console that I have ever waited for has been a dissapointment. Meaning, every new console is hyped, every new console is supposed to be a huge step in quality and games, and every new console is going to make me forget about the rest. It hasn\'t happened yet, but the ride sure is fun, and expensive!
Ace
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Sigh, aside from all this "good sales means great console" I will say this about sales. It\'s a lot easier to sell a million copies of a game on a userbase of 40,000,000 than it is on one of 5,000,000. It\'s common knowledge, so in a way, sales define what a console is.
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Fastson, Hurricane...just read my posts again. You\'ll find you answers there.
You two seem to be the only one\'s who didn\'t get it.
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The PS2 set the bar for hype in 2000. Just a little snippit.
EGM #133 august 2000 pg50
"PLAYSTATION2.....is not the future of video game entertainment.
PLAYSTATION2 is the future of entertainment, period."
-KAZ HIRAL, COO,SCEA
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Ugh.. I hate when threads blow up like this while I\'m away. I\'m not responding to all of this, even tho I have quite a bit to say on the subjects. I stand by my original assesments, and must say that I am appauled some of you have actually taken all of what\'s happened in the course of the last two years in perfect stride - smiling all the way.
Sorry I can\'t be so optimistic. The PS2 just wasn\'t worth purchasing at the time for me, and is just now becomming worthwhile enough to seriously look into. (As in, searching for best prices and starting the buying process) I can\'t imagine how many of you felt at the launch thru the first year of it\'s life always looking over the next dissapoint for the time when you\'re $300+ dollars would finally bear some worthwhile fruit.
As for Hype.. it certainly had a part in it.. but I think expectations had a lot more. People saw how successful the PSX was and expected the PS2 to follow suit.. so buying the PS2 was an investment in the future for them, even if it was lackluster and disappointing to start out with.
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The first year was anything but disappointing to me. The launch games that I got were great (TTT, SSX, Timesplitters, and yes, even DOA2 was worth the purchase at the time :)). Then there was a little dry spell with most games released being only mediocre (The Bouncer, ZOE). During this time, the only great game IMO was Onimusha. Then we had some more mediocre games until the summer (Dark Cloud, Red Faction). But then we got into the great games again with GT3 and TMB. And then came the infamous "PS2 fall lineup 2001" :eek: where a great game was being released just about every other week.
Sure, the whole year wasn\'t perfect gaming nirvana, but it was pretty darn close. :) And when comparing that year to the NGC\'s and Xbox\'s first year, it kind of puts into perspective how on-par the PS2\'s first year really was -- nothing to be laughed at or whined over.
And back to the main topic, was there ever any doubt? ;)
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well if were coparing it to the PS1\'s success
take a look at the PS1\'s launch list
*shudder*
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I can\'t imagine how many of you felt at the launch thru the first year of it\'s life always looking over the next dissapoint for the time when you\'re $300+ dollars would finally bear some worthwhile fruit.
You wanna know how I felt? I felt like a a vunerable guy who had just been anally raped by a bigger guy and then my wallet was stolen by him. My only comfort was at home in alittle box that was white and casted dreams ...sweet , sweet dreams....
:(
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Originally posted by Ginko
*I wouldn\'t post them...that would lead in another direction that I don\'t care to go.
SSX, RR5, Timesplitters, Summoner, etc...nothing special, in fact they border on mediocre. Those titles did not sell 10 million consoles...hype did.
Sorry matey but i feal that i must disagree with you.....
Timesplitters might not Whaoooo Graphicaly but it\'s got Playability and multiplayer madness in Tonnes (plus people are Still playing it !)Also running at a Silky smooth 60 FPS helped unlike ;) *coff*HALO*coff*
anyway i think you will find that the current trend for X box titles now-a-days is All Flash ....No Substance (the the Poor X bouxy has been around for some time now :rolleyes:, were are Da killer PS2 apps ?)
Also i think you will find FFX , MGS2 , onimusha GTA3 & GT3 are perfect examples of what the user base can do(in some case\'s those games DID lead to an increase in Console Sales Grand Theft Auto 3 esp),and what the game can do rather than HYPE(Some of them sold over 1 million with in a day{something tell\'s me that 2 million Japanese Gamers in on week can\'t be wrong}).
and this trend is set to continue for the PS2
/me points to the massive amount of PRE-order\'s and excitment over the Comming of GTA : VC Along with the ever growing intrest in ZOE 2 : the Second Runner
anyway hope there is no hard fealings between us buddy, by previous coment was Aimed at the PStwo\'s and Rasl\'s of this world ;)
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Wait a second here.Many of u people seem to refer to the PS2 as the disappointment it was and how crap it was supposed to be when it was newborn.
The console was judged badly by its first games and many people came to the conclusion it sucked and it would suck.Underestimated by criticism on its launch and first games.How many people said the PS2 was just an overhyped console that couldnt offer cgi quality graphics and graphics seen in the tech demo\'s?Graphics not much better than DC?Now some of u are doing it again in this thread.
Look at what we expected,what we got in launch and what we have now.What do the first games mean while now we have the games the console was promised to offer?
1.When u heard the words "hollywood movie graphics" u expected graphics 100% as good as real life?Huh?Or was it hollywood movie quality titles?
2.Lunch missile....has Sony said that officially?Also the rumor was about multible PS2 chipsets connected together.Not a PS2 being strong enough to do such a thing.
3.Reproduce?Nope.It was said that data from the CGI work done for the movie can be taken to the PS2.Not necessarily in the exact quality seen in the movie.Never said reproduce.I also have a magazine right here with me: ".....exciting news,especially with the follow-on news from a japanese magazine that Lucas not only wants to develop an episode II game for PS2, but that it could even be possible to use the original CG data from the film directly on the PS2".It does not say anywhere Sony said that thing.U said by ur self some programmers said.Also can u tell me which software houses the programers were from?Expectations were so high the media expressed them nearly as facts.
4.That one about Matrix.....or u ve made it up by yourself or someone else expected too much.Sony once again never said that.Or perhaps there was a confusion made with the GScube matrix demonstration.
Most hyped wasnt made directly from Sony but from the highly expectations expressed by media and consumers.
Also here is what the magazine sais "While Harisson was at pains to stress the next gen console was\'t a PC replacement, he did outline a potential upgrade curve for new peripherals that would expand the range of PS2"
"We are not saying that u will plug these devices in, but that u can plug these devices in.We didnt want the future marketing of this machine to be constrained by technology.Thats why we ve adopted these standard interfaces"
Clearly shows Sony never stated PS2 as a could be "PC killer".Again people\'s high excitement was the result of this.
The difference bettween XBOX hype and PS2 hype is that most XBOX hype came from MS while PS2 hype from the people\'s high expectations and excitement.It was the next gen console of the most succesfull console of that time.
1.first off yes they did say hollywood movie quaitly graphics and ps2 has good graphics but hollywood movie quaitly graphics? I don\'t think so.
2. This is just laughable ps2 chipset can lunch a missle? Yeah and xbox can be used as atom bomb as well.:rolleyes: ;)
3. Strange how no star wars games looked near eposide 1 graphics? Nuff said..................what happen to it being able to do in real time.:laughing:
4. Yes this came from the maker of the ps2 ken k. he said "playing ps2 is like jacking into the matrix or another world.".
LOL!!!!!!!! YEs ps2 was the most hyped system ever. Xbox was just said to be 3 times more powerful than ps2 and the most powerful console ever. Hey at least Microsoft never said it could blow up half the planet.;)
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good lord, please save us!
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Originally posted by ooseven
Sorry matey but i feal that i must disagree with you.....
join the crowd.
Timesplitters might not Whaoooo Graphicaly but it\'s got Playability and multiplayer madness in Tonnes (plus people are Still playing it !)Also running at a Silky smooth 60 FPS helped unlike ;) *coff*HALO*coff*
You completely missed my point...I wasn\'t hitting on any one game. Rather I was asking why is that the PS2 was able to leap to stardom on such titles in such a short time? No doubt they\'re good, but enough to propel 10 million consoles into homes...no.
Hype/aniticipation had a big part to do with it.
You\'re snippet at Halo is unnecessary and tired...let it go.
anyway i think you will find that the current trend for X box titles now-a-days is All Flash ....No Substance (the the Poor X bouxy has been around for some time now :rolleyes:, were are Da killer PS2 apps ?)
I think you\'ll find that on most consoles...I could tear this apart into little pieces but then we\'d be covering familar territory. I\'ll close this thread before it goes there.
Once again, this was unnecessary...
Also i think you will find FFX , MGS2 , onimusha GTA3 & GT3 are perfect examples of what the user base can do(in some case\'s those games DID lead to an increase in Console Sales Grand Theft Auto 3 esp),and what the game can do rather than HYPE(Some of them sold over 1 million with in a day{something tell\'s me that 2 million Japanese Gamers in on week can\'t be wrong}).
Another person who missed what I was trying to get across. I\'m getting tired of you people skimming over my posts and quickly replying like this. I answered this full and well about a page back. Go and look.
and this trend is set to continue for the PS2
And it\'s not for Xbox or GC? Can you honestly say the GC or Xbox have that much of a weaker lineup? For their userbase compared to the PS2\'s, I\'d say they\'re doing pretty good.
My point is the Xbox and GC are here to stay...are they getting the same amount of support as PS2...no. They are however, getting a healthy lineup of games.
/me points to the massive amount of PRE-order\'s and excitment over the Comming of GTA : VC Along with the ever growing intrest in ZOE 2 : the Second Runner
anyway hope there is no hard fealings between us buddy, by previous coment was Aimed at the PStwo\'s and Rasl\'s of this world ;)
What\'s happening now is what the thread was aimed at...however it took a nasty turn somewhere and I\'ve ended up defending myself.
I should leave this thread alone...no hard feelings are ever intended towards anyone (except maybe gman and chrono;))
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/me agrees
this post is pointless now
the PS2 is a fine console that has proven its doubters wrong several times over
the xbox and GC have yet to do so, but they will in due time