PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: luckee on November 18, 2002, 01:11:13 PM
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Abortion....
Discuss.
BTW, if you cant handle what may possibly come up in this thread, do yourself and the rest of us a favor and don\'t even post in here.
If you cant handle being mature without insulting someone, do not even post in here.
You know who you are.
*EDIT* Stick to the subject as well, and keep the useless nonesense in one of the many other threads were it is already going on.
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Abortion should continue to be safe and legal. It\'s a woman\'s body, and what happens to it should be her business, and no one else\'s.
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I don\'t think its morally right to kill a baby that God (or nature in other people\'s case) has already created and intended to let live. If you can\'t handle a baby you shouldn\'t be having sex. Forgive my conservatism but it\'s just logic.
If a girl got raped and ended up pregnant I still think the baby should live. And just asking a question but with the way birth control pills work now can\'t a female take them the day after they got nailed and the effect would still work as long as the lady didn\'t miss a day after that?
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No, that wouldn\'t work with the birth control pills, I don\'t believe. And if they did, how is that any different from having an abortion?
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I believe that abortion should be illegal. Your killing a human being, think about it. Not only is it not nice....its not nice. A couple should have to live with the decisions they have made. And in the case of raping, the raper should bare all expences or suffer greatly. Now, i will continue on with my unintelligent rambling.
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I also believe it should be the ladies decision. She alone would have to make the moral decision as to what is right or wrong. There are so many variables that can come into play in makeing a decision,supposed she was raped and the baby would be born with a serious addiction to who knows what, would the baby be better off living a life of hell or not? With all the methods of birth control out there one should be able to avoid haveing a child if one doesn\'t want one. Man, you picked a hard and controversial subject. I wonder if the ladies on this forum will respond, I would like to hear their input.
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The point isn\'t whether it is right or wrong, or moral or immoral. The point is, who the hell are you to make that decision for someone else? Get raped, get pregnant, then come back and tell me what you think.
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Amen shock
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Eh, tough choice.
I wouldn\'t exactly want to make it illegal, because as has already been mentioned, it\'s the woman\'s body and her choice, as well.
But on the other hand, that same woman should know better than to murder an unborn child. If she doesn\'t want it, giving the baby up for adoption would be a much better decision that ending its life before it has even begun. There are too many couples in the world who would do anything for a child of their own, so why deny them that?
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Woman\'s body. Woman\'s Choice.
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182- You\'d deny them that because giving birth to the child, then giving it away, would be a very painful process, both physically and emotionally.
Besides, the way our society is, if you make it illegal, it will not stop it. Women will just try to do it themselves...we\'ve seen it before. Then you just have women getting hurt, who would have been fine if the process was legal.
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Originally posted by 182Ways
Eh, tough choice.
I wouldn\'t exactly want to make it illegal, because as has already been mentioned, it\'s the woman\'s body and her choice, as well.
But on the other hand, that same woman should know better than to murder an unborn child. If she doesn\'t want it, giving the baby up for adoption would be a much better decision that ending its life before it has even begun. There are too many couples in the world who would do anything for a child of their own, so why deny them that?
If it is unborn than technically it is not a child and if it is born than in a sense it is not yet alive, if it will not survive without the mother than it imo is not a living creature. Adoption is not always the best decision for some, pregnancy is a painful thing, you try it(i\'m just speaking from other points of view ie women)
Last why deny them that natural selection not everyone in the world is intended to have kids.
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They do have the morning after pill for rapes accidental jizz spillage so there really shouldn\'t be an excuse for unwanted pregnancy.
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youd be surprised at how hard it is to get the morning after pill though... it usually takes about 2 1/2 days to get ahold of. especially if it happens on a weekend... whoa buddy good luck then.
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So what happens when they don\'t find out they are pregnant until a week or two later?
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and the fact that you have to go through a doctor makes it even more difficult, although Luke seems to be an expert in this field :-)
It should be available without prescription imo. But hey who the hell cares about what the little people think should be right.
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I have my views on this topic, and I\'m sure there are an equal amout that agree/disagree with me, but they ARE my views, and I\'m entitled to them.
Abortion, in my view, IS and should always be, legal.
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excuse me, who deleted my post?
edit: it was just a joke :(
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Some jokes should never be made. I woulda deleted it too.
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Usually women are psychologically injured after abortion and there many chances of causing fatal health problems.
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Originally posted by Magoo
excuse me, who deleted my http:// post?
edit: it was just a joke :(
i did, i knew it was a joke but cmon man.
as far as me being an expert on the morning after pill ive only had to deal with trying to get it once, and it was last weekend.
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I was going to wink and nudge you my friend.....
I don\'t mind abortion, because usually the people who have them would not have been able to take care of the child anyway. But then there is adoption so I don\'t know. It is very traumatizing to give your kid up. I\'d bet even more traumatizing by far than an abortion.
I don\'t know. Random thoughts in my head and dinner is ready... Gotta go...
Moral of the story, Abortions, I\'m all for em.
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I agree with abortions.. If someone wants it, let them have it.
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I\'m against abortion, adoption is the way to go. If they can\'t handle having a baby, don\'t have sex. And their are plenty of people out there who wish they could have kids but can\'t.
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im adopted so i cant argue that... im not against abortions but imagine the world with no luke! it almost happened im sure!
p.s. all\'s clear vid.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
I was going to wink and nudge you my friend.....
I don\'t mind abortion, because usually the people who have them would not have been able to take care of the child anyway. But then there is adoption so I don\'t know. It is very traumatizing to give your kid up. I\'d bet even more traumatizing by far than an abortion.
I don\'t know. Random thoughts in my head and dinner is ready... Gotta go...
Moral of the story, Abortions, I\'m all for em.
If the reason they cant take care of the kid are economical issues(which I cant think of any other reason right now) then they dont have the money for abortion so they usually go to cheap doctors that cause a lot more problems like fatal gynecological health problems,contaminations etc and the most chances are she will regret the abortion of her child.Most woman regret it and the psychological trauma may lead to depression which depression may lead to many other problems.Especially in poor families.
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Originally posted by Bozco
I\'m against abortion, adoption is the way to go. If they can\'t handle having a baby, don\'t have sex. And their are plenty of people out there who wish they could have kids but can\'t.
Once again, what would you say if a girl was raped?
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Originally posted by Unicron!
If the reason they cant take care of the kid are economical issues(which I cant think of any other reason right now) then they dont have the money for abortion so they usually go to cheap doctors that cause a lot more problems like fatal gynecological health problems,contaminations etc and the most chances are she will regret the abortion of her child.Most woman regret it and the psychological trauma may lead to depression which depression may lead to many other problems.Especially in poor families.
Abortions are availble free of charge though county hospitals. As for the depressive aspect of it all, more women are affected by not aborting and givng up for adoption.
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I don\'t know if someone already mentioned this but I\'ll say it now. A baby isn\'t technically alive until around the 5-7 months range. I support the abortion law before this time. After, its just murder IMO.
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i had some chick that got an abortion come to my school saying why abortion is bad. she said its mentally difficult for the woman after the abortion. also, she said that the baby has a heart beat and is alive by the time they find out that the womans pregnant. As for my view, i honestly dont have a view..1 side says abortion is bad, since it is a living being, but the other side of me says that the baby doesnt know(i know that sounds morally wrong)
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I always thought adoption would be harder on a woman that abortion would. At least with an abortion, as far as I know, there wouldn\'t be any maternal instinct kicking in.
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I must say, I have a 3 year old son. I was 15 when he was born. I wanted her to get an abortion, it would have led to a way more healthy life mentally and financially if that would of happened. I wasnt wearing condoms and she was supposed to be on birth control. Back then I was flippin out, I didnt need a kid that early. But I stayed and now hes a strong, smart little man and I love him to death. But after all Ive been through already, I would have stuck with it. Damn, I feel guilty and f*cked up for saying that now that hes here but its true. Ive lived a lifetime already and Im only 19. Fuq it, thats just the way it is.
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Here we go, my opinion on a whole is it\'s wrong, except in cetain circumstances, for example if the baby is deformed or in any way retarded, I think you\'re personally doing the baby a favour. If it’s just a case of some slag has had a kid because she’s a dirty whore but just doesn’t want it then my thought’s are, you knew what you were doing now live with the ****ing consequences.
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Originally posted by Heat
Here we go, my opinion on a whole is it\'s wrong, except in cetain circumstances, for example if the baby is deformed or in any way retarded, I think you\'re personally doing the baby a favour. If it’s just a case of some slag has had a kid because she’s a dirty whore but just doesn’t want it then my thought’s are, you knew what you were doing now live with the ****ing consequences.
The only flaw in your theory is that same applies if the child comes out handicapped as you stated earlier. Those people also knew of a possibility of a handicapped child.
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Originally posted by luckee
Abortions are availble free of charge though county hospitals. As for the depressive aspect of it all, more women are affected by not aborting and givng up for adoption.
They shouldnt give their child for adoption either.
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Why not?
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If a woman wants and abortion then she should be entitled to do so.
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Nice way to back it up Kurt. :rolleyes:
As for with rape, I don\'t completely know yet. I guess abortion in a rape case only. No other exceptions. Adoption is always a much better choice. If you can\'t handle the kid, don\'t have sex. Thats why I allow an abortion on rape.
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Abortion is only wrong by moral standards. Who are we to judge what is right and what is wrong? Is it right to have sex without the idea of conceiving a child? Is it OK to only have sex for pleasure? We have the ability to reproduce just as every other living organism. We just tend to abuse it.
If people lived by the idea of not having pre-marital sex, or not having sex unless trying to conceive a chid then abortion wouldn\'t be an argument. But we don\'t live this way. And birth control isn\'t 100%
My view on the subject is cloudy. I think the woman has a right to choose. However, I still think the taking of an innocent life is wrong. But then I ask myself these questions.....
Lets say you have a crack whore on the corner, fukin everbody she knows just for a few rocks. Do you really want her spitting out babys? What about the women that do nothing but have children to collect child support and wellfare? Or the women that dump their babys in dumpsters to have them suffer and die a slow death. If they don\'t have the option of abortion, how many times do you think they will do this?
I agree adoption is an option, but is it morally right to bring a life into this world knowing you don\'t want it? What if a woman is raped? What if a woman can\'t have the child for medical reasons...meaning she could die during labor?
Some of these questions make you think about it. Or at least it makes me think about it.
/me shrugs
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Originally posted by Viper_Fujax
i had some chick that got an abortion come to my school saying why abortion is bad. she said its mentally difficult for the woman after the abortion. also, she said that the baby has a heart beat and is alive by the time they find out that the womans pregnant. As for my view, i honestly dont have a view..1 side says abortion is bad, since it is a living being, but the other side of me says that the baby doesnt know(i know that sounds morally wrong)
Well, that\'s not true, considering you can detect if a woman is pregnant before a heart even begins to form...
Seriously though, I don\'t think the question should be whether it is right or wrong. The question should be who should have the right to decide what\'s right and wrong. I think such a personal decision, that affects someone this deeply should be up to the people it affects, and only those people. The law makers and the pro life people have no idea what some of the circumstances people are in are like. To impose what you believe to be right on someone else, who can be under such extremely different circumstances, is what\'s really wrong, in my opinion.
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First off, it\'s not my choice unless I\'m the father of the child.
As far as my personal view on Abortion, I see it as being alright up to a certain point. At early stages of development, you could take the DNA out of the cells of a Zygote and turn a human fetus into a fish or a chicken or whatever you wanted. Ever look at Zygotes? It\'s amazing jus how similar all virabret life looks at it\'s early stages of development. Bears, Horses, Sharks, Dogs, Kangaroos, Humans.. we all look pretty much the same to begin with. The line should be drawn (IMO, and in my case only) when the fetus\'s brain starts firing it\'s synapses. After that.. it starts to learn and grow.. develop the beginnings of a personality.. starts to actually become human.
I mean.. why get so anal about a woman killing a zygote when hundreds of women flush perfectly good fertalized eggs down the toilet because of a period or the pill?
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perfectly good fertalized eggs is a good band name...
carry on.
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I\'d buy the CD.
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A few members have mentioned that a fetus isn\'t a human being yet. In my opinion, what grows inside a woman for the first 7 months is a parasite. It feeds off of what a woman eats and the biological waste it excretes is carried out of the woman as well (kinda like a ringworm). Its survival depends on the host body. So hypothetically, make the woman disappear and the parasite will shrivel and die.
In the case of rape, some rapists actually still run free, never getting caught. Imagine what a person, who was orphaned, started to research his/her background and found out that he/she was a product of rape or even incest. That\'s like thousands of dollars of therapy.
Why should a bunch of old, male caucasian politics make a decision of what happens to a woman. I bet they\'d want their mistresses to get an abortion before their wives found out.
Yes, I agree, we do abuse the act of sex but does that stop people from doing it? No. Do contraceptives work all the time? No. Abortions should be left as an option that\'s available. In my health class, we had watched a video about drug use in England. We know that marijuana and heroin are bad for you, but according to the video, the English are getting those drugs as prescriptions to not only control where addicts get their drugs but also to help them quit. That\'s an option; it\'s bad but it\'s an option anyway.
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182- You\'d deny them that because giving birth to the child, then giving it away, would be a very painful process, both physically and emotionally.
The problem is, 99 times out of 100, having an abortion is a much more emotionally painful process. Most women are unfulfilled and depressed (even suicidal) after an abortion takes place. Feelings of emptyness and regret are in place those which you thought would be relief.
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aint they got some pills now, so if u relise you pregnant after like up to 6 weeks or something, u can rid of it...
i dont really know where to stand on this, i mean if someone doesnt want a bay its good, but if they didnt want a baby, maybe they should use some protection, or beable to control there urges better.. its there fault if they are
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
The problem is, 99 times out of 100, having an abortion is a much more emotionally painful process. Most women are unfulfilled and depressed (even suicidal) after an abortion takes place. Feelings of emptyness and regret are in place those which you thought would be relief.
That is the case in extreme cases, not normal ones. That description doesn\'t fit the average at all.
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Nope, not much at all. I still stand by giving the baby up after carrying the full terrm and birthing(is that even a word?) is alot more emotionally damaging than just aborting b4 the mother "gets to know" the experiance and form a real connection.
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Im guessing some of you don\'t know how some abortions happen? Ever hear about the hose that they sometimes use? At the end of the hose is a claw and vacum. They stick the claw on the babies head and suck it out. But no, its the mother\'s choice whether to take a life of an individual or not. Let her play God.
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:rolleyes:
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Must we always bring up a deity? The guy doesn\'t even have a womb.
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Originally posted by Clowd
Im guessing some of you don\'t know how some abortions happen? Ever hear about the hose that they sometimes use? At the end of the hose is a claw and vacum. They stick the claw on the babies head and suck it out. But no, its the mother\'s choice whether to take a life of an individual or not. Let her play God.
My hair raise up just by the thought of it.
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Originally posted by square_marker I believe that abortion should be illegal. Your killing a human being, think about it. Not only is it not nice....its not nice. A couple should have to live with the decisions they have made. And in the case of raping, the raper should bare all expences or suffer greatly. Now, i will continue on with my unintelligent rambling.
That has to be one of the stupidest damn things I have EVER read in my life! In the case of rape I am ALL for the option of havin an abortion.
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abortion should be legal full stop.
I don\'t really know whether I agree with it personally, but thats not the issue. I think the woman should be able to decide the right of her own foetus.
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Abortion should continue to be safe and legal. It\'s a woman\'s body, and what happens to it should be her business, and no one else\'s.
What about the baby\'s body? It should die just because the mom is an idiot?
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It\'s always the mom to blame isn\'t it? So the guy has no part in it? Because he didn\'t wear a condom or he didn\'t check if he put it on right, it\'s her problem? If you want to blame anyone, you should blame both parties for "destroying a life."
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Sometimes I wonder if there is really a need for so many women\'s groups out there who utterly despise men. Then I come to here and read off-topic and am quickly reminded why and how justified they are. Scary, utterly scary.
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I am against abortion just for the fact that you are killing an innocent baby. Both of the parents are idiots for being irresponsible when getting it on, they shouldn\'t end a life for their mistake.
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Originally posted by Rya
It\'s always the mom to blame isn\'t it? So the guy has no part in it? Because he didn\'t wear a condom or he didn\'t check if he put it on right, it\'s her problem? If you want to blame anyone, you should blame both parties for "destroying a life."
If the american system didnt already favor the female, you probably wouldnt have this view. Very often regardless of the mans actions, he has no choice in the abortion. Afterall, he isnt the one who has to carry or abort. So ultimately, it is her decision. WHile a good woman would consult and take into consideration the fathers feelings, she still has the ultimate ruling.
I am against abortion just for the fact that you are killing an innocent baby. Both of the parents are idiots for being irresponsible when getting it on, they shouldn\'t end a life for their mistake.-Titan
It isnt always like that. Rape comes to mind. Also, if people are supposed to be responsible for their actions, whats the point of lawyers 9 times out of 10? If you were being sued for something you caused, I bet you would still have a lawyer on your side to lessen or even bet what you were accused of correct?
We all have options to the choices we make in life, it isnt always a bad thing to make a less than popular choice.
Sometimes I wonder if there is really a need for so many women\'s groups out there who utterly despise men. Then I come to here and read off-topic and am quickly reminded why and how justified they are. Scary, utterly scary.-Ryu
Those same womens groups are often responsible for an even share of the"scary" things they cause.
Look at the state of CA for example. A man who was PROVEN to not be a biological father of a child still forced to pay child support for a child, all b/c of some bullshit womens group.
Or perhaps the case of either a CA or WA man who had to pay child support for a child he wasnt even aware he conceived. He was drunk and passed out and a chick aroused him, mounted..got pregnent. 9 months later she comes looking for dough and succedes. Yet again, b/c of a womens group.
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Those same womens groups are often responsible for an even share of the"scary" things they cause.
You realize my comments were directed towards the vast number of womanizers on this board right? I question the motives of some women when it comes to things like you mentioned and it all comes down to a quick buck that people have killed for regularly in this great society of ours. It honestly doesn\'t matter though, but my point was that with the number of comments I see in this thread towards women and the objectification of them that happens so rampantly in this board, I\'m not at all surprised there are groups of women out there unified against such things.
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I understand, I just wanted to throw out there that they are often as petty/trivial as the men who they despise.
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^^ Usually more petty.
It all comes down to, do you think someone has the right to kill another person because they just don\'t want the hassle. If my girlfriend ever aborted one of my kids she\'d be out on her murdering ass.
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It isnt always like that. Rape comes to mind. Also, if people are supposed to be responsible for their actions, whats the point of lawyers 9 times out of 10? If you were being sued for something you caused, I bet you would still have a lawyer on your side to lessen or even bet what you were accused of correct?
We all have options to the choices we make in life, it isnt always a bad thing to make a less than popular choice.
Rape is the only reason i think abortion should be allowed, but taxpayers shouldn\'t pay (around here, taxpayers pay).
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Originally posted by Titan
Rape is the only reason i think abortion should be allowed, but taxpayers shouldn\'t pay (around here, taxpayers pay).
How is it a reason?
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Originally posted by Clowd
How is it a reason?
So if your daughter, mother, sister, wife got raped, you would keep the child?
Nevermind, I forgot yer a god boy.
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i dont like it. its just like murder, but legal, if its a rape case or something then maybe, but the woman knew what she was doing its her fault and she shoulnt kill the baby cuz of her mistake.
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Originally posted by Clowd
How is it a reason?
If your girlfriend was raped and became pregnant, you would tell her to keep it? What if it would ruin her life, youd still make her keep it? Please :rolleyes:
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Reflecting off of what SirMystiq mentioned, could someone explain to me the difference between abortion and murder? I know the individual definitions, but I\'m interested in seeing what ways some of you consider them to be different terms.
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It\'s not different, its murder what ever the reason, as I mentioned before in extreme circumstances it\'s better for the child but when some dirty slag has spread um for half the street then I think she should have to live with it. If you don\'t want a baby close your legs, simple as.
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Originally posted by luckee
So if your daughter, mother, sister, wife got raped, you would keep the child?
Yes I believe in the sanctity of life
Ever thought that one of your best friends could have been a child from a rape?
What if you were that child that came from a rape?
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I really dont see what that has to do with my thoughts on it. If I was and someone believed in abortion, so be it. I\'ll tell you one thing though, I certainly wouldnt want to have to deal with the thoughts and feelings knowing I am a child of a violent crime.
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That\'s completely different Clowd. What you are saying is no different from saying "Don\'t use condoms. What if you came from your parents not taking the right protective measures?" It\'s no different.
And the difference between murder and abortion? Murder is to kill a living, breathing, animal. To take something that is living, and rip it\'s life away from it without its consent. Abortion is preventing a collection of cells from reaching the point of being a living animal in the first place.
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shockwaves, majority of the time, the abortion takes place when the baby is taking human form (4 months into it). I have no problem with contraceptives (which are against Catholocism) but don\'t like abortion, unless in the case of rape. But even after an abortion, the mother can regret and screw her up, like she murdered someone.
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Originally posted by Titan
shockwaves, majority of the time, the abortion takes place when the baby is taking human form (4 months into it). I have no problem with contraceptives (which are against Catholocism) but don\'t like abortion, unless in the case of rape. But even after an abortion, the mother can regret and screw her up, like she murdered someone.
Because she has...
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Yes, the mother can have regret, and that can do bad things to her. But does that happen most of the time? Not even close. In fact, I\'d bet that she would have far less regret than if she gave the baby up, and far less than if she kept it, since if you are getting an abortion in the first place, there are probably reasons why you can\'t have a child at that point in your life.
And four months? Give me a break. 88% of abortions are done within the first three months, and that percentage is getting higher and higher.
Besides, I never said that people should have unlimited rights to abortions. Of course there should be restrictions...I believe it should be restricted to the first trimester. Of course an abortion when the woman is 8 months pregnant or something is wrong.
On another note, there are some abortions that are performed in order to save the mother\'s life, in situations where she would be sure to die during child birth. What do you think about those?
By the way, an interesting stat for those of you throwing religion in...Catholics are 1% more likely to get an abortion than the average of the general population. Hmm...
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Originally posted by shockwaves
And the difference between murder and abortion? Murder is to kill a living, breathing, animal. To take something that is living, and rip it\'s life away from it without its consent. Abortion is preventing a collection of cells from reaching the point of being a living animal in the first place.
Like what Titan said, abortions take place much later then that
A mother usually doesn\'t know shes pregnant until what 2 months after conception?
About not wanting to live with knowing you were the product of a rape?
Reminds me of not wanting to live because of being paralyzed
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Plain and simple..no abortion= more dead babies in trash cans and coat hanger abortions which endanger mother and child.
So you ask yourselves, which really is worse?
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Originally posted by Clowd
Like what Titan said, abortions take place much later then that
A mother usually doesn\'t know shes pregnant until what 2 months after conception?
About not wanting to live with knowing you were the product of a rape?
Reminds me of not wanting to live because of being paralyzed
It can remind you of whatever you want it to, that doesn\'t mean it\'s a valid connection. And I already posted statistics showing that the vast majority of abortions happen less than 3 months into the pregnancy. 88% I believe it was? In other words, I have hard evidence that what Titan said was wrong, so don\'t use it to back up what you\'re saying.
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Abortion is preventing a collection of cells from reaching the point of being a living animal in the first place.
In addition to this: why don\'t we just let the AIDS virus continue to live. Why bother researching for a cure against AIDS? Why bother trying to find a cure for the common cold? The virus and bacteria is a life too, why not let it have the right to live?
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shockwaves:
And the difference between murder and abortion? Murder is to kill a living, breathing, animal. To take something that is living, and rip it\'s life away from it without its consent. Abortion is preventing a collection of cells from reaching the point of being a living animal in the first place.
I think the differing definitions of "living" is a big reason why there is so much controversy over abortion. Everyone has their own ideas about when a person starts to live. Whether it\'s right when the sperm joins with the egg, or sometime in the development cycle, or when the baby is born. Until we can agree on this, we will never be able to agree on when abortion is right and when it is wrong.
By the way, an interesting stat for those of you throwing religion in...Catholics are 1% more likely to get an abortion than the average of the general population. Hmm...
The general population consisting of who exactly? All non-Catholics? All non-religious people? You have to remember that because one religion supposedly has a higher abortion percentage than the "general population", doesn\'t mean all religions in the world do. You can\'t use statistics from one religion and use it as an argument against the thousands of different churches, and the millions and millions of religious people. Now if you found a statistic showing that religious people overall had a higher abortion rate than non-religious people, then you would have something worth mentioning.
I also question the authenticity of this statistic. Who was the survey done by? How many people were surveyed? And if this 1% statistic is true, so what? Is 1% really that significant? With the margin of error, I would consider a percentage that low as being negligible.
Rya:
In addition to this: why don\'t we just let the AIDS virus continue to live. Why bother researching for a cure against AIDS? Why bother trying to find a cure for the common cold? The virus and bacteria is a life too, why not let it have the right to live?
Because a human\'s life is far more precious than a virus\' life. A virus doesn\'t have a brain, or intelligence. The death of a virus doesn\'t have an emotional impact on anyone.
My stance on this topic:
In most cases, abortion is wrong. Yes, even when someone is raped, I believe that they should have the baby, and then put it up for adoption if they can not take care of it themselves. Every person has a God-given right to live. Who are we to take that right away from them?
Now whether I think they should keep it legal or not, of course they should keep it legal. Making it illegal wouldn\'t do a thing to help the situation. Like others have said, if it was illegal than people would have it done illegally or just try to do it themselves.
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Originally posted by IronFist
The general population consisting of who exactly? All non-Catholics? All non-religious people? You have to remember that because one religion supposedly has a higher abortion percentage than the "general population", doesn\'t mean all religions in the world do. You can\'t use statistics from one religion and use it as an argument against the thousands of different churches, and the millions and millions of religious people. Now if you found a statistic showing that religious people overall had a higher abortion rate than non-religious people, then you would have something worth mentioning.
I also question the authenticity of this statistic. Who was the survey done by? How many people were surveyed? And if this 1% statistic is true, so what? Is 1% really that significant? With the margin of error, I would consider a percentage that low as being negligible.
The General population the average of all people in society. Comparing this portion (Catholics), to the whole, you see that the average chance of a Catholic getting an abortion is 101% of that of the average chance of someone getting an abortion, regardless of religion. I know that I can\'t take a statistic, and use to it argue against all religions. I wasn\'t even looking for information on religion. I just saw the statistic (In a group of stats compiled by Planned Parenthood, the National Center for Health Statistics, and the Center for Disease Control and Prevention), and found it interesting, since the Catholic Church is officially against abortion.
Even if 1% is negligible, when you consider the margin of error the statistic could have, it does show at the very least that Catholics aren\'t getting abortions at a lower rate than the average American.
In addition, is a fetus which is still forming and developing any different from a virus, when you really think about it? Does it really have a brain or intelligence? Surely not at all points since it was conceived. It does however feed off of its host, altering her natural habits, patterns, and behaviors. Or perhaps parasite is a better word, if you want to get that specific. *shrug*
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Shockwaves:
Even if 1% is negligible, when you consider the margin of error the statistic could have, it does show at the very least that Catholics aren\'t getting abortions at a lower rate than the average American.
But how many of those Catholics who get an abortion are strong in their church? Many people are Catholic by the baptism at their birth only. My point is, maybe the reason the Catholics have abortions just as much as the average American because those Catholics ARE the average American. I\'m sure if you took the faithful believers in the Catholic church, and compared that number to the national average, the Catholic church would be much lower. But I guess it doesn\'t even really matter. :)
In addition, is a fetus which is still forming and developing any different from a virus, when you really think about it? Does it really have a brain or intelligence? Surely not at all points since it was conceived. It does however feed off of its host, altering her natural habits, patterns, and behaviors. Or perhaps parasite is a better word, if you want to get that specific. *shrug*
Well, like I said different people will have different beliefs on this. I believe that at one point in the development of the baby, the spirit enters the fetus. At this point it is alive, and is just like any other human being. Unfortunately, I don\'t know when in development this event happens. Because of this, I have to take the position that killing the fetus at any time in development is wrong, because the spirit could be in the fetus at that time.
Don\'t get me wrong though. I don\'t want to sound ignorant like I believe that it should be an easy choice whether to get an abortion or not. I understand how hard of a choice this is, for both atheists and religious people. I hope that no one close to me ever has to make that decision, but if they do, I will support them either way (of course I would try to convince them to keep the baby first).
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Well, I know that either way, no matter what your beliefs are, abortion would be a very difficult decision. After all, it\'s usually something done only by people in pretty desperate situations. I just think that it should remain up to the individual to decide for themselves, and make their own judgement. If I were in the position, I don\'t even know that I would want an abortion, or think that it is the right thing. I just don\'t think that such a decision should be made by some rich government officials off in Washington. It should be a very personal thing, that each person much search their own soul before doing, and a decision that they really must make on their own.
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"A virus doesn\'t have a brain, or intelligence" - Ironfist
Neither does a Zygote.
Rya hit the nail on the head. Everyone I\'ve seen who\'s against abortion so far has been clamoring about the "Sanctity of life". Really now, isn\'t that a bit like the blind leading the blind? Haughty and arrogant too. First off.. what about Warmongers. Many of you claiming "sanctity of life" are also the loudest voices in support of sending troops to Iraq and other middleastern countries. Since when did a fetus who has the "potential" to develop.. become more important than a human who already IS developed? Or what about the fully developed human beings that American human is killing? Are they not as important as a fetus?
Then expand that even farther... which life do you mean by "Sanctity of Life"? (A virus like HIV isn\'t technically alive or not alive Rya - last I heard) Human life only or all life in general? Just intelligent life? At what IQ level does an animal cease to become a "being" and instead becomes a meal? Then what about retards and comatose people who don\'t meet that IQ level? Why are they so precious while a Gorilla in Africa with a higher IQ, personality, and emotion gets shot for it\'s fur or stuck in a cage for yokles to gawk at?
For those who think "because it\'s HUMAN", let me ask you.. what makes humans so much more important than any other life on this planet? Is not all life connected to each other on this planet.. moving, interacting, feeding off of each other? What makes humans anymore special? Seems like a bunch of posin and patting ourselves on the back to me. We measure our success and importance as a species by what we know.. other animals. And only on the aspect of intelligence.. because our staying power and adaptablity has yet to be truely proven. We ARE animals people.. just like every other multicellular creature on earth. We all have one common trait - a butthole which poop comes out of.
And as for potential.. you may as well damn nearly every member on these boards. It only takes 1 sperm to make a child.. and yet everyone here who masturbates or menstruates can be considered a murderer for letting that potential die in a small crusty globule in their underwear. Everytime you "Flog the cannon" you\'re dooming hundreds of potential childred to death." So I guess it\'s not just kittens that Chizzy\'s been killing.. he\'s worse than Charels Manson. o_O
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Originally posted by SonyFan
Neither does a Zygote.
Rya hit the nail on the head. Everyone I\'ve seen who\'s against abortion so far has been clamoring about the "Sanctity of life". Really now, isn\'t that a bit like the blind leading the blind? Haughty and arrogant too. First off.. what about Warmongers. Many of you claiming "sanctity of life" are also the loudest voices in support of sending troops to Iraq and other middleastern countries. Since when did a fetus who has the "potential" to develop.. become more important than a human who already IS developed? Or what about the fully developed human beings that American human is killing? Are they not as important as a fetus?
Then expand that even farther... which life do you mean by "Sanctity of Life"? (A virus like HIV isn\'t technically alive or not alive Rya - last I heard) Human life only or all life in general? Just intelligent life? At what IQ level does an animal cease to become a "being" and instead becomes a meal? Then what about retards and comatose people who don\'t meet that IQ level? Why are they so precious while a Gorilla in Africa with a higher IQ, personality, and emotion gets shot for it\'s fur or stuck in a cage for yokles to gawk at?
For those who think "because it\'s HUMAN", let me ask you.. what makes humans so much more important than any other life on this planet? Is not all life connected to each other on this planet.. moving, interacting, feeding off of each other? What makes humans anymore special? Seems like a bunch of posin and patting ourselves on the back to me. We measure our success and importance as a species by what we know.. other animals. And only on the aspect of intelligence.. because our staying power and adaptablity has yet to be truely proven. We ARE animals people.. just like every other multicellular creature on earth. We all have one common trait - a butthole which poop comes out of.
And as for potential.. you may as well damn nearly every member on these boards. It only takes 1 sperm to make a child.. and yet everyone here who masturbates or menstruates can be considered a murderer for letting that potential die in a small crusty globule in their underwear. Everytime you "Flog the cannon" you\'re dooming hundreds of potential childred to death." So I guess it\'s not just kittens that Chizzy\'s been killing.. he\'s worse than Charels Manson. o_O
I believe in the sanctity of life yes. Do I agree with sending people to Iraq? No. Do I agree with bombing Afghanistan killing hundreds maybe thousands of civilians? No. Do I agree in bombing Afghanistan at all? No.
What makes humans more important then any other life on this planet? Well God said that one sparrow does not fall without him knowing and he says that we are worth more then many sparrows.
I dont understand what you mean about potential. But I do know once an egg is fertilized it starts the process of creating a new life. It is my position that we do not have the right to stop this process.
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A virus like HIV isn\'t technically alive or not alive Rya - last I heard
Thanks for correcting me, SonyFan. And really good point in your last paragraph about masturbating and menstrating.
Anyways, why do people bother convincing/forcing the beliefs of others? Why must pro-lifers force pro-choicers to switch? Or vice versa? If we were to do that with every single aspect of life, we might as well all listen to the same music, by the same artist. We might as well watch the same movie that\'s playing in every theatre.
Yes, there are people who believe in the "sanctity of life" by others don\'t. Why do so many people have a problem understanding that we are all individuals with unique opinions and that not everyone believes that a tiny zygote is a life or not.
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Originally posted by Rya
In addition to this: why don\'t we just let the AIDS virus continue to live. Why bother researching for a cure against AIDS? Why bother trying to find a cure for the common cold? The virus and bacteria is a life too, why not let it have the right to live?
As of now, viruses are classified as non living :)
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For those who have bibles read Psalms 139: 13-17 Especially verse 16
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Why not post what it says?
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Note verse 16
The Psalmist David:
Psalms 139
Verse 13:
For you yourself produced my kidneys; You kept me screened off in the belly of my mother.
Verse 14:
I shall laud you because in a fear inspiring way I am wonderfully made. Your works are wonderfull, as my soul is very well aware.
Verse 15:
My bones are not hidden from you When I was made in secret, When I was woven in the lowest parts of the Earth
Verse 16:
Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, And in your book all its parts were written down in writing, As regards the days when they were formed And there was not yet one among them.
Verse 17:
So, to me how precious your thoughts are! O God, how much does the grand sum of them amount to!
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Verse 16 talks about parts written down in writing = genetic code
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So I guess you also believe that all men have one less rib than women too?
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EDIT: disregard this post. Some how, it posted twice (don\'t ask, I hit nada)
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/me punches both sides of body
Yup, two ribs here :) I\'m a bit sore though
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Typical
No reply to the point at hand so you just talk about something else. Next time, dont reply.
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:rolleyes:
Speaking of typical...
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No reply to the point at hand so you just talk about something else. Next time, dont reply.
You were speaking of anatomy\\genetic code, how was her post talking about something else when she mentioned the exact topic in question? I rarely insult members, but you ALWAYS deserve it any capacity. Stupid stupid clowd.
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Originally posted by Ryu
You were speaking of anatomy\\genetic code, how was her post talking about something else when she mentioned the exact topic in question? I rarely insult members, but you ALWAYS deserve it any capacity. Stupid stupid clowd.
I dont know how you can compare what she said to me saying that bible writers knew of the genetic code.
The two have nothing to do with eachother.
If you want to smart off do it somewhere else hot stuff
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Clowd, you really are a moron. You seem to think no one else has anything intelligent to say, and yet to pretty much anyone else who reads this thread, it appears to be the other way around.
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I dont know how you can compare what she said to me saying that bible writers knew of the genetic code.
The two have nothing to do with eachother.
I read what you posted and specific parts of the human anatomy were mentioned as opposed to anything referring to genetics. You can read between the lines all you want, but it all boils down to interpretation. Besides, what do you know? You think you\'re right about everything, especially the way you spell \'awareness.\' It\'s nice to see you always living up to your reputation.
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Somebody disabled my option to change the spelling, very funny. Im done with this thread, so go throw a party. You dont have to be proven wrong anymore.
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Yes, I forgot...the overwhelming amount of proof you posted was incredible. Sure did make me look like an idiot :rolleyes:
It\'s not proof if only you see the value of it.
By they way...interesting pattern. First your username is spelled wrong, and now your title is :)
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lol