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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Unicron! on December 29, 2002, 08:43:58 AM
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DAMN AMERICA(No offense amarican citizens)!!THEY ARE READYING ARMY FORCES HERE IN CYPRUS FOR AN ATTACK TO IRAQ
DAMN!!THEY DONT KNOW THEY ARE CAUSING WAR AGAINST NOT ONLY IRAQ!!!!(Not to mention they might cause complications here in cyprus regarding the Cypriot "matter")
THEY ARE PUTING BOMBS IN ARABIAN COUNTRIES WHEREVER AMERICANS AND EUROPIANS FREQUENT!!IMAGINE WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO WHEN THE WAR BEGINS!!MY FATHER WORKS IN RYIADH DAMN IT!!THEY ARE CAUSING PROBLEMS AGAINST EVERY NON- MUSLIM RESIDENT IN THESE COUNTRIES!!
THEY HATE FOREIGNERS!!!THEY ARE FANATICS!!!
THEY WONT LET IRAQ JUST LIKE THAT!!IF THE OTHER ARABIAN DOMAINS WONT JOIN FORCES WITH IRAQ THEY WILL START EVEN MORE PROBLEMS TO THE FOREIGNERS WHO LIVE THERE!!ESPECIALLY AMERICANS!!!
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War is always a problem. But USA seems to don\'t hear the ammunition\'s sound.
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They hate foreigners anyway. After all you agree they are fanatics. These fanatics have one goal which is to make Islam the world\'s religion and either convert or kill those who don\'t believe. Its not like the fanatics needed "Iraq" as a reason to hate western societies. The Arab world as a whole only likes us for the oil we buy from them.
On the matter of Iraq... N Korea already has a bomb and look at what problems they are causing. In case some of you have forgotten, Iraq under Saddam hasn\'t been a peace loving nation... maybe you should be damning him instead of those who wish to see the region more stablized.
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If you want to be a free nation then fine, be our guest, but if you want to make others surrender their land to your leader or believe in your religion through force you\'re asking for trouble. Why are they so thick-headed? Just leave your neighbors alone and the world superpowers police won\'t bother you.
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Oh yeah.Just give them the excuse to put into act their hatred.
Its not like the fanatics needed "Iraq" as a reason to hate western societies
By America doing this they give more power to the islam.How?The give 100 and one ways to start propaganda.And its not the king that rules.Its the islamists who rule.The islam police .They are controlling everything and they are who are not letting the people there to wake up.
Just give them more reasons and ways to keep them more into "sleep" and fanaticize them even more.And make things even strictier for foreigners.
I ve seen and lived the situation.
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^^^^^^ :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Sorry Unicorn I don\'t understand the point you are trying to get across. Don\'t blame the US for the anti foreigner sentiment that runs in the Arab world. If Iraq would have never invaded Kuwait more than a decade ago, we wouldn\'t be having this conversation now.
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Unicorn!, i\'m really sorry to be such a pain in the ass, but could u please elaborate more on yer post. and the fact that most of it is in capitals doesnt help either. :) (reffering to the first post)
And why is it that when ever some refers to islam/muslims, its like all they see is the taliban.
EDIT: Giga most arabs dont hate forigners (including Americans), its just that bombs and violent acts of a few are louder than the peaceful words of many.
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It usually is the vocal minority that is the cause for generalizations. In any case, I was referring to Unicorns assertion that the US is to blame for all anti foreigner sentiment in the Arab world.
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Man I hate antiAmerican people. All you people that hate America make me sick. We are in war with Iraq because they are violating the UN peace treaty. You guys think we\'re doing it for more power.
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Boy, it\'s really simple. Just look at N. Korea and it\'s easy to understand what we have to do to not let his happen again.
We even have the French, not that it matters, agreeing that something must be done in Iraq.
Ace
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Theres also something going on in Korea. UN pulled out of there and S Korea is bent out of shape. Looks either like WWIII or The Second Korean War. This world is really out of shape now.
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It also goes to show you how useless the UN inspectors are in Korea and in Iraq.
Ace
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The UN is useless period. It will go the way of the League of Nations because no one "really" recognizes it as an authority.
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U dont get it dont u?This is not an issue between Iraq and America only.Expect many things to happen.
Every non-muslim resident in Arabian countries except Emirates will have more problems there.The relations between Arabs and foreigners will heighten to the worse.
Religion will gain more power over people.They might be giving an excuse for a religious explosion.Those who rule(and I am not talking about the king) dont wont any non muslim resident there.They want to remove foreigners from their places.And there are many Americans there.Who they hate.
Simple Arabian citzens there cant say no the religion.Its dictatorship there ruled by religion.
The strictier things get in these places the worse it gets for non-muslims.
They might also give an excuse for a war(not only Iraq) and then a global issue
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War cannot be halted. Arguing will only go so far.
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Giga is totally correct. You have to realize that probably 95% of the arab world does not HATE the US. it\'s just the 5% that do get 99% of the press because that\'s what\'s fun to put on TV.
Believe me. I worked many years in the media. I went through a 2 day riot here in the Tampa area and I can\'t tell you how many interviews I did with the black leaders of a very minor group called the uhuroos. (That\'s not how you spell it, but I don\'t give a rats patoot). Anyway, there are a very small number of people in this group, but because they are malicious and vocal, the city listens to them.
If you see interviews with people who go over there and tell you anecdotes of things that were said off to the side you would understand why we are going to war. These people want to get rid of Sadam. THey just can\'t say that.
DOes anyone even realize what the world would be like if the US and it\'s allied countries did nothing? We\'d still be hated, but just about other things.
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Just give them the encheason!!
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Runs to dictionary.com to find out what in the world Unicron is talking about.
Realizes that his big word means nothing.
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Damn you are right.I dont even know where I got that from.
"Unicron tries to find his dictionary"
edit:Found it.Ok.Here is the closest word I could find with the meaning I was searching for:"motive"
:o
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Yeah come on Unicorn. You do speak English very well, but it seems this thread has you not thinking too clearly.
Video is absolutely right that we (the US and most of the west) would still be hated even if we did nothing. People like Osama want to see the total destruction of the US and probably most of Europe as well.
I wouldn\'t call the Arab world against the US a world war either. They have no navies and a very limited air force. Basically, they have no logistics to carry out a prolonged war. The Arabs also know that any conflict with US would be bad for business so to speak, so I think you are overreacting Unicorn. If you are so dead set on being against this looming war I have to ask what should be done about Saddam? Nothing? Next time he invades a neighboring country the whole world should just watch? Say, hypothetically that he did eventually take over the Middle East and was at the gates of Europe and Cyprus was threatened. Would you still be an advocate for no US intervention? Of course this is all hypothetical, but I am curious as to how far would Iraq have to go in order for you to think differently?
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Unicron, shaddup. Your talking out of your arse.
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Originally posted by Vapor Snake
Unicron, shaddup. Your talking out of your arse.
Cunning response from our educated youth of America...
:D
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Yeah come on Unicorn. You do speak English very well, but it seems this thread has you not thinking too clearly.
U are right.:crap:
Video is absolutely right that we (the US and most of the west) would still be hated even if we did nothing. People like Osama want to see the total destruction of the US and probably most of Europe as well.
Yes I agree you are already being hated.But I stated that already.Thats not the point.The islamists are looking for the right time,the right excuse, the right happening to start propaganda, rebellion etc or something like that.Simple Arab citizens follow them as they have no other choice.We are not talking only about Talibans here.
There are these groups "mattaoua" or something(dont know the spelling).They are who are controlling the people in these countries.Fanatics.Mouslims.Like religion leaders.They are trying to take over everything.
The war in Iraq will give them the chance to start their propaganda,make things religiously strictier, gain more power and control(say hello to hell for foreigners), and finally SA will become the most powerfull force Islamists ever had..
I wouldn\'t call the Arab world against the US a world war either. They have no navies and a very limited air force. Basically, they have no logistics to carry out a prolonged war.
Expect heated episodes.They already exist.They will become even worse.
The Arabs also know that any conflict with US would be bad for business so to speak, so I think you are overreacting Unicorn. If you are so dead set on being against this looming war I have to ask what should be done about Saddam? Nothing? Next time he invades a neighboring country the whole world should just watch? Say, hypothetically that he did eventually take over the Middle East and was at the gates of Europe and Cyprus was threatened. Would you still be an advocate for no US intervention? Of course this is all hypothetical, but I am curious as to how far would Iraq have to go in order for you to think differently?
Islamists dont care about economy or bad business.Take a look at Auganistan.(Hell they dont care about sadam either.They want the right excuse to gain power).
BTW:I dont know what the media sais in the US about Sadam.But over here from the things I saw so far from the media Sadam isnt as much us a thread.
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Whether he makes sense or not, shouldn\'t we be listening to what he has to say rather than arguing it? He can see first hand what is going on there, he should know best.
If only there were a way to remove Saddam without going to war, eh?
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"BTW:I dont know what the media sais in the US about Sadam.But over here from the things I saw so far from the media Sadam isnt as much us a thread."
I think your english took a left turn.
Why do you think these groups need us to go to war with Iraq to start their rhetoric? They use propoganda all the time anyway. Hell, I know that our own government screws with us too, but I trust our country far more than anywhere else. Our media who is motsly hated does keep our government in check. They are used, but they are still a good check to make sure what is said is real.
On the other hand, I don\'t believe crap that comes out of media in those arab countries. They are owned by the governments. If not, then they are controlled by the gov\'t. It\'s ridiculous.
OK, I am really really sick and my mind is a goner. Hope I don\'t sound like a total F\'ing ediot.
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If Saddam is given the chance to create nukes that he can aim at his neighbors, he will be a threat that even the foreign news media will understand.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
Whether he makes sense or not, shouldn\'t we be listening to what he has to say rather than arguing it? He can see first hand what is going on there, he should know best.
If only there were a way to remove Saddam without going to war, eh?
We are listening to what he is saying. And I don\'t care if he is closer to the action. he\'s still just as close as we are because he is getting all of his info the same way we are.
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North Korea has problems. Unless they got enough nukes to erase all of the US of the map, they really shoulnt be starting shit. One nuke they have and they think theyre gods. I say if they dont want peace, blow em up.
Correct me if im wrong, doesnt Iraq make lots of oil?? To me thats probably the only reason why the united states is so eager to attack. the conquer the land, and get their oil, therefore the US save money. I mean North Korea are practically trying to start a war, and Iraq is trying or it seems like they are, theyre trying to evade a war. But the US keeps pickin on iraq. Wuts up with that?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Correct me if im wrong, doesnt Iraq make lots of oil??
And this is our future? I shudder to think...:rolleyes:
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I grow weary of this. I give up. You\'re right, the US is devising a plan to take over the Iraqi oil fields. We will have all the cheap oil in the world.
Ace
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Its the black gold and complete control over Iraq that the US wants!!There are no weapons of mass destruction!!Even if there are then US was stupid enough to give them what they needed in the past to be able to produce them.
And US arent stupid.Or US gave Iraq the technology to have the ability to create those weapons of mass destruction so later they can find an excuse to attack Iraq or they are liars or they were stupid and gave them what they needed for such a production just like that.
They havent found any weapons of mass destruction.The attack was planned all along.
After the attack it will give the chance for the clergy in other islam countries(SA) to start bigger propaganda,fanaticize,cause a religion explosion against the west(problems against any non-muslim citizen) and give another excuse for the US to attack SA this time.Which they want to control as they are completely out of control and the conditions the US asked the Saoudiarabians to put into act were completely thrown away(Change their education,reduce the power of the clergy etc so religion wouldnt have control over people).
The islam clergy expects the attack to Iraq because its their chance to gain more power in other islam countries.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if Little George W bush asked Santa ....or Satin more to the point… for a new War
George W bush “ I wanta War…. I wanta War ……I wanta War “
Santa or Satin “but you haven’t finished your last one ! “
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So Unicron!, when was the last time you were in Iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction?
Ace
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Even if Mr. Blix does not find any mass destruction weapons in Iraq Im sure the US will invade anyway.
They\'re not shipping 50 000 troops or whatever just for nothing. Something is going to happen.
Bush "Warmonger" Bush will have his way, with or without UN\'s support.
I\'m really looking forward to seeing the so called evidence towards Iraqi mass destruction weapons. :)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.co.clark.nv.us%2Felection%2FImages%2FPhotos%2FBUSH_Compress.gif&hash=628072611ef65b174d9a2384b90950e9c4e44a58) + (https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.strothotte.com%2Fpretzel.jpg&hash=4ccefa3905c494c40b76976e4bcc961d20007928) = (https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2Folmedia%2F1690000%2Fimages%2F_1692167_jfk150ap.jpg&hash=438c59d071ccb56c7ade04bd579d6859e3d73cba)
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Yawn...
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Originally posted by ooseven
I wouldn’t be surprised if Little George W bush asked Santa ....or Satin more to the point… for a new War
George W bush “ I wanta War…. I wanta War ……I wanta War “
Santa or Satin “but you haven’t finished your last one ! “
WTF is that supposed to mean? That we want war? I think Bush is trying to evade war. He\'s not going into Iraq for its oil. Whoever thinks that is a real dumbass. We are trying to get Hussein out of power before he uses nukes for evil. Korea is hostile to us. Do you think they forgot about the Korean war? They still hate us for that. They don\'t hate us for much else.
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Originally posted by Titan
WTF is that supposed to mean? That we want war? I think Bush is trying to evade war. He\'s not going into Iraq for its oil. Whoever thinks that is a real dumbass. We are trying to get Hussein out of power before he uses nukes for evil. Korea is hostile to us. Do you think they forgot about the Korean war? They still hate us for that. They don\'t hate us for much else.
man u really think that yer govt. would spend billions upon billions preparing for war just to get saddam out of power. they could\'ve just as easily taken him out more than a decade ago.
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we don\'t need their oil? We have tons of oil in the gulf of mexico and in Alaska. This is about terrorism.
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Remember that we are his first target for a nuke. Keep that in mind. We have been trying to get him out of power since the Gulf War. We never stopped attacking him. We have war ships and warplanes in Iraq 24/7. But we aren\'t invading his country. He\'s a threat to the US and we are just trying to eliminate that threat.
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Tyrant do you think that if the US invades and defeats Iraq that the US is going to get free oil????? That is nonsense. Also, as Video stated, the US has plenty of oil to meet its needs.
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Originally posted by Tyrant
they could\'ve just as easily taken him out more than a decade ago.
You don\'t know your US history so stfu. He fled. He went in some hidden bunker or something. He is just like Bin Laden. He fled and we couldn\'t find him.
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damn!! Vid u actually sounded serious in that post ;).
anyways one thing is for sure saddam is a huge threat and should be eleminated i just hope that its not at the expense of thousands of innocent lives.
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Its war. Thousands will die if its a long war.
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Originally posted by Titan
You don\'t know your US history so stfu. He fled. He went in some hidden bunker or something. He is just like Bin Laden. He fled and we couldn\'t find him.
dude dont be an ass, yer army did have a chance to take him out but they let him go.
"Its war. Thousands will die if its a long war"
as long as their not American lives offcourse, right?.
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They didn\'t "Let him go" we just didn\'t have the balls to go in and take him out. The war was not to oust Saddam, it was to liberate Jumait and that was a success. Ousting Saddam should have been a byproduct of that and we are regretting it now.
This war will be to oust Saddam.
BTW, it sodesn\'t have to be a war. The Iraqi people could just lay their arms down and revolt against their leader.
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What\'s wrong with protecting American interests including the oil we spend billions on so these wackos can live in palaces?
Ace
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Tyrant do you think that if the US invades and defeats Iraq that the US is going to get free oil?????
honestly. Yes. i do, hey i dont even blame yer govt. for considering that.
hell if yer gonna rid the world from some phsycotic trigger happy mad man, u might as well get something out of it right.
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Saddam needs to go whether or not it should of been done 10 years earlier is a problem with the past 2 administrations, I\'m just glad we got somebody in the White House with balls to get things done, I don\'t agree with everything he does, or half of politics, but Iraq isn\'t the greatest thing, kill Saddam and get out, the only problem with that though is the week minded people that are over there. It\'s not that they are week minded its that they are poor and hungry and when someone promises you something you don\'t see through the lies you just go for it, so if we don\'t stay I see another dictatorship coming.
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First off, we could have taken out Saddam over ten years ago. Instead, we stopped 5 miles short of Baghdad in a cease fire agreement. Don\'t ask me why.
I honestly don\'t think Saddam is a threat to us. For one, he wouldn\'t launch nukes at us or our allies. Secondly, he is a paranoid megalomaniac. To think that if this guy were to get hold of a nuke, he would give it to Bin Laden, a man who is known to be anti-Saddam is simply absurd.
Bush wants a war with Iraq. It either has to do with Saddam trying to kill his pa, oil, or perhaps wars can raise popularity levels for the next election.
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Originally posted by Event Horizon
First off, we could have taken out Saddam over ten years ago. Instead, we stopped 5 miles short of Baghdad in a cease fire agreement. Don\'t ask me why.
I honestly don\'t think Saddam is a threat to us. For one, he wouldn\'t launch nukes at us or our allies. Secondly, he is a paranoid megalomaniac. To think that if this guy were to get hold of a nuke, he would give it to Bin Laden, a man who is known to be anti-Saddam is simply absurd.
Bush wants a war with Iraq. It either has to do with Saddam trying to kill his pa, oil, or perhaps wars can raise popularity levels for the next election.
Does anyone bother to read the previous posts????? Video pointed out quite accurately that we could not go into Baghdad BECAUSE IT WAS NOT IN THE UN RESOLUTION TO OUST SADDAM!!!!!!! We were bound to follow the UN directive, thus enabling us to gain support from other Arab countries.
Why are you naive enough to think Saddam wouldn\'t hand over a nuclear weapon to terrorists?? It doesn\'t have to be Bin Laden, he could hand it over to any nut who hates the US. As a matter of fact we aren\'t only talking about the US here. Any country is at risk if someone such he acquires a nuclear weapon.
As someone a month or two ago pointed out this isn\'t about getting revenge for a failed assassination attempt - I think the person said "that is a playground mentality" to think in such a way.
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Originally posted by Event Horizon
Bush wants a war with Iraq. It either has to do with Saddam trying to kill his pa, oil, or perhaps wars can raise popularity levels for the next election.
Probably the best statement as of yet.
Taking Saddam out isnt a smart thing to do now. It will only increase the anti-US sentiment in that area and we dont need that yet.
What was started in Afghan. needs to be finished first.
Even if he has a nuke or capabilities, he certainly doenst have ICBM\'s that could reach the US. Hell, I dont even think the US has long enough distance ICBM\'s to hit him.
Oil is a big reason in this, dont be fooled.
Ok, so we go take out a guy that should have been gotten years ago. Then what? Leave..MORE pissed off ppl. Or do like the great Afghan. mistake and put a dummy government in place and once again MORE pissed off ppl.
I really dont care for the CIA and al, but this is a perfect time for one of its black book operations to send a squad in and kill sadam quietly.
Im just wondering when the moron in charge is going to start pointing and proding his stick at Iran and N.Korea.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Does anyone bother to read the previous posts????? Video pointed out quite accurately that we could not go into Baghdad BECAUSE IT WAS NOT IN THE UN RESOLUTION TO OUST SADDAM!!!!!!! We were bound to follow the UN directive, thus enabling us to gain support from other Arab countries.
Why are you naive enough to think Saddam wouldn\'t hand over a nuclear weapon to terrorists?? It doesn\'t have to be Bin Laden, he could hand it over to any nut who hates the US. As a matter of fact we aren\'t only talking about the US here. Any country is at risk if someone such he acquires a nuclear weapon.
As someone a month or two ago pointed out this isn\'t about getting revenge for a failed assassination attempt - I think the person said "that is a playground mentality" to think in such a way.
Excuse me. I didn\'t see anything in video\'s post about a UN resolution, and I wasn\'t really serious about the revenge part.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
They didn\'t "Let him go" we just didn\'t have the balls to go in and take him out. The war was not to oust Saddam, it was to liberate Jumait and that was a success. Ousting Saddam should have been a byproduct of that and we are regretting it now.
This war will be to oust Saddam.
There you go eventhorizon. He basically says what I said.
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North Korea is next up Luckee... Rumsfeld has already said we can wage a 2 front war.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
There you go eventhorizon. He basically says what I said.
Like I said there was no mention of a UN resolution, but I see your point. Now get off my case.
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Touchy aren\'t we?
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You\'re the one who is posting in all caps and calling me naive.
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Well if the show fits... seriously though, if you would have paid attention or watched any news channel this topic has been covered.
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Originally posted by luckee
It will only increase the anti-US sentiment in that area and we dont need that yet.
How do you know people are really anti-US? They can\'t speak their mind!!! And only the yoohoos get on the tv. The ones carrying the guns burning the flags. The people huddled up in their homes scared to say anything are the ones we are doing this for.
Originally posted by luckee
Even if he has a nuke or capabilities, he certainly doenst have ICBM\'s that could reach the US. Hell, I dont even think the US has long enough distance ICBM\'s to hit him.
Very true. And this is why I can\'t understand why all these small countries don\'t want to see him ousted. Flip of the switch and he can throw a nuke into Israel.
And we don\'t need an ICBM to go that far. We have Subs, Ships, and Planes.
Originally posted by luckee
Oil is a big reason in this, dont be fooled.
Ok, so we go take out a guy that should have been gotten years ago. Then what? Leave..MORE pissed off ppl. Or do like the great Afghan. mistake and put a dummy government in place and once again MORE pissed off ppl.
I agree. The interim Gov\'t is going to be a very scary thing. Although the peopel didn\'t seem to mind when the Taliban were dislodged from power in Afghanistan. And all you saw were anti American sentiments from their too before the war.
Originally posted by luckee
I really dont care for the CIA and al, but this is a perfect time for one of its black book operations to send a squad in and kill sadam quietly.
Totally agree. I wish this could be the way to handle this.
Originally posted by luckee
Im just wondering when the moron in charge is going to start pointing and proding his stick at Iran and N.Korea.
Damn democrats.....:thepimp:
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Yea, but Im not a Dem :D
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
And this is our future? I shudder to think...:rolleyes:
ive heard comments like that sooo many times im grown used to them.
Besides this country is all about the money, right like bush really gives a damn about our security, all he has to do is hop on air force one and leave the country. Titan....The US has nooooo proof that Sadam even has nukes, all the US gov tells the people is that they have satellite pictures and blah blah thats a bunch of bull, US wants the oil is as simple as that, they got afghanistan, now they want iraq. if they hate that kind of government soo much they why the hell is Fidel castro still alive?? they havent even that subject. This anti-terrorism is bull, and if there is any country that has used nukes for evil is the US. Droppin that nuke even though it wasnt needed. If there is any country that has used nukes for evil is the US, even though they brainwash people to think otherwise. Besides governments including the US build bombs to blow up the world, millions of dollars spent, what the hell do we want them for?? decorations??
"First you build the bomb, to blow up the entire world, now youre trying to save it, which is it gonna be?"
--george clooney, PEACEMAKER
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Titan....The US has nooooo proof that Sadam even has nukes, all the US gov tells the people is that they have satellite pictures and blah blah thats a bunch of bull, US wants the oil is as simple as that, they got afghanistan, now they want iraq. if they hate that kind of government soo much they why the hell is Fidel castro still alive?? they havent even that subject. This anti-terrorism is bull, and if there is any country that has used nukes for evil is the US. Droppin that nuke even though it wasnt needed. If there is any country that has used nukes for evil is the US, even though they brainwash people to think otherwise. Besides governments including the US build bombs to blow up the world, millions of dollars spent, what the hell do we want them for?? decorations??
First off, you are a f*cking retard. Stop typing like a f*cking kindergartener. Satellite pictures tell alot. We have equipment that can trace radioactivity, recon. flights over Iraq and the UN weapons inspectors have found chemical weapons. Watch the f*cking news. We do not want oil. We have plenty in the US and in Alaska. We need Hussein out of power. He\'s gonna reak havok on the world. He\'s been stockpiling weapons and shit. And we do not have Afghanistan. They have a president. It isn\'t US controlled. And Castro is the leader of a COMMUNIST country. Iraq and Afghanistan aren\'t. They are a dictatorship. Actually, Afghanistan is now a democracy. You think this anti-terrorism is bullshit? They are attacking us you dumbass. This is defense. We are defending our country. Taking out threats is a top priority and so far, we are kicking terrorist asses. On dropping the nuke, we never did. Don\'t say Hiroshima was a nuke because it wasn\'t. That was and ATOM bomb. Very different. Nukes are more powerful. More people would have died if we did a land invasion. Oh, BTW, America doesnt\' brainwash its citizens. There are just as many protesters here agianst war as there are in other countries so shut the f*ck up. Oh and we are not building any more nukes. Infact, we are working on destroying a lot of ours. Look, you have no idea what the hell you are talking about so you don\'t have a right to make stupid accusations about the US. Learn US history and get your shit together, then you can argue with me again.
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SirMystiq, you need to stick to the bling bling cause you don\'t know shit about anything dealing with this. Pick up a freaking paper once and a while.
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Don\'t forget about reading a history book.
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i can type however i ****ing feel like. ITS A FREE COUNTRY you asswipe. Who the hell are you in the government, why do you keep saying "we". are you the presidents security advisor? has there been concrete proof of any Nukes in iraq? i didnt type anything about chemical weapons, people already know they have them. KICKIN TERRORIST ASSES!!! HAHAHAHAHA were the **** is bin laden??? is he dead? alive? how the **** do you know? stop typing like you know everything this government does, the truth is you dont know, nobody knows, sure they tell you shit, doesnt mean its real. why the **** would they tell the citizens? like the government is really going to listen to what they have to say. whats on the news is just the "facts" the government lets out. Atom bomb? nuke?, dont they both kill people? ohh so ok as long as americans dont die its ok to kill others. Bullshit, so i guess bin laden was right, as long as is only americans that die, its ok right?..if there is anything "we" are defending its our pride, not the country not the people, "we" are defending our ego. If were so good with homeland security, then why was osama\'s attack succesful, even the gov. said that they had knowledge of such attack. but no lots of people had to die before it could be taken seriously. I know my history, the attack on hiroshima was not needed, japan was defeated, the war was over. but "we" wanted to test out "our" new bomb. Killed thousands of innocent people, then did "our" best to stop the war, that way other countries would think "we" were just defending "ourselves".
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SirMystiq, you should really stick to the fake girlfriend posts. You are really out of your league here. There was no "homeland security" before 9/11.
Hiroshima saved American *and* allied lives. If the Allies had to take Japan by force many more Japanese alone would have died than were killed in both atomic explosions. Read some books, do some research and come back to these type of threads when you are ready.
Though I don\'t agree with your opinion, you really have no basis for any of your accusations. Take some lessons from Luckee if you are going to take the stance you are. He backs up his opinions and sounds intelligent when he does.
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I really coulnt give a **** if thousands of american lives were saved by killing a bunch of japenese. People are people, being american doesnt give us any right to kill others. Even if we do have a reason to, even if we are the "good" guys. We\'re the good guys because we say so, to them were the bad guys. Who\'s right?<
I dont give a **** if Iraq has a million nukes, and i dont give a **** if i sound intelligent to you or not. The only thing i ****ing care about is my cousin that died during the 9/11 attacks. The government could of stopped that, they admited it. If george bush doesnt like saddam they why the **** doesnt he go over there and kick his ass personally. instead of sending my other cousin and others to afghanistan and iraq? If you guys are so inclined on defending this country, then why dont you stop with the bullshit and go over and sign up and help out?? I would, but im too young to join. I do have basis for my accusations, seen how you guys are so educated, you must never miss a HISTORY program on PBS. Thats were i heard it from, japan was defeated, conquered, even if they did want to still fight, they had no chance of winning. The bomb wasnt needed. you guys are so educated and proud of this country arent you? you dont know shit, and you shouldnt be talking if you dont know what it feels like to lose someone you love because of some sonofabitch that doesnt like americans. That still doesnt give us the right to kill other people. Just kill him and its through, hes the bitch not the people that live there.
**if any of you have lost someone during a war or anything else related to this. then im truly sorry. if any of you have been to wars. then much respect to you too.
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Shut up.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
If you guys are so inclined on defending this country, then why dont you stop with the bullshit and go over and sign up and help out??
I am going into the service after I get out of high school (ROTC) then my whole job will either be the army or Air Force. Hell, if I\'m 18, out of high school and we are still in war, I\'m signing up for the Army. I\'m dedicating my life to my country and I don\'t need someone like you putting it down. I\'m sorry for your cousin but it would have been hard to stop the terrorists, even if it was possible. Those terrorists were our own citizens which goes to show how deep this really is.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
i can type however i ****ing feel like. ITS A FREE COUNTRY you asswipe. Who the hell are you in the government, why do you keep saying "we". are you the presidents security advisor? has there been concrete proof of any Nukes in iraq? i didnt type anything about chemical weapons, people already know they have them. KICKIN TERRORIST ASSES!!! HAHAHAHAHA
That really sounds like a boy who has lost a family member. Why don\'t you take Fayded\'s advice and shut up while you are ahead. I doubt you lost anyone - this smells just like your girlfriend post.:rolleyes:
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I never knew he was ahead... ;)
I just told him to shut up before he fell further behind.
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Ok, I\'m gonna talk some sense into you.
i can type however i ****ing feel like. ITS A FREE COUNTRY you asswipe.
You sound like a dumbass the way you are typing. And america isn\'t a "free" country. If it was "free" I can go to your house in Texas and kick you flat in the nuts and have no consequences. I can call Bush a shmuck (which I\'d get arrested for blasphemy) and get away with it. This is not a free country.
Who the hell are you in the government, why do you keep saying "we". are you the presidents security advisor?
I can type how I ****ing feel like :rolleyes: I refer to we as America, a country. Think for once.
has there been concrete proof of any Nukes in iraq?
Satellite photos and more radiation than normal.
KICKIN TERRORIST ASSES!!! HAHAHAHAHA were the **** is bin laden??? is he dead? alive? how the **** do you know?
We are kicking their asses. Al Quada is pretty much gone. Other terrorist forces are depleting.
stop typing like you know everything this government does, the truth is you dont know
Did I say that I knew everything? I\'m telling you what I know and hear. I\'m sharing what I hear from the news and shit. You don\'t know shit either so shut the f*ck up
Atom bomb? nuke?, dont they both kill people? ohh so ok as long as americans dont die its ok to kill others.
An atom bomb uses different radioactive materials than a nuclear weapon does. A nuke also has a bigger blast radius. I also didn\'t say that it was alright for other people to die that arent us. Freaking read.
Bullshit, so i guess bin laden was right, as long as is only americans that die, its ok right?
You sound like a Bin Laden sympathiser. If you hate us so bad then leave. It will be one less moron we have to worry about.
..if there is anything "we" are defending its our pride, not the country not the people, "we" are defending our ego. If were so good with homeland security, then why was osama\'s attack succesful,
Holy f*cking shit. :laughing: Homeland security was created long after the 9/11 attacks. You really don\'t pay attention to the news.
but "we" wanted to test out "our" new bomb. Killed thousands of innocent people, then did "our" best to stop the war, that way other countries would think "we" were just defending "ourselves".
Um...we tested the bomb on some island or something. We had a few atom bombs and we did drop them and measure the blast radius and effects. We also test our nuclear weapons and stuff in Nevada. And dropping that bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was needed. If we didn\'t drop it, their military was possible of getting stronger. I don\'t know what the targets were exactly but I think they were military targets or something.
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Originally posted by Titan
First off, you are a f*cking retard. Stop typing like a f*cking kindergartener. Satellite pictures tell alot. We have equipment that can trace radioactivity, recon. flights over Iraq and the UN weapons inspectors have found chemical weapons. Watch the f*cking news. We do not want oil. We have plenty in the US and in Alaska. We need Hussein out of power. He\'s gonna reak havok on the world. He\'s been stockpiling weapons and shit. And we do not have Afghanistan. They have a president. It isn\'t US controlled. And Castro is the leader of a COMMUNIST country. Iraq and Afghanistan aren\'t. They are a dictatorship. Actually, Afghanistan is now a democracy. You think this anti-terrorism is bullshit? They are attacking us you dumbass. This is defense. We are defending our country. Taking out threats is a top priority and so far, we are kicking terrorist asses. On dropping the nuke, we never did. Don\'t say Hiroshima was a nuke because it wasn\'t. That was and ATOM bomb. Very different. Nukes are more powerful. More people would have died if we did a land invasion. Oh, BTW, America doesnt\' brainwash its citizens. There are just as many protesters here agianst war as there are in other countries so shut the f*ck up. Oh and we are not building any more nukes. Infact, we are working on destroying a lot of ours. Look, you have no idea what the hell you are talking about so you don\'t have a right to make stupid accusations about the US. Learn US history and get your shit together, then you can argue with me again.
Said photos could be anything like the power plant is now suspected to be.
Why do you insist that we dont want oil? Yes we have Alaska and other areas with large deposits of oil. We arent gonna use that though. We are gonna use everyone elses first.
Hussein is only interested in harrassing a small group of countries. Id be willing to bet he wouldnt give 4 flyin fu%ks about us if we didn stop him from controlling kuwait 10 years ago.
You really think our hand is out of the afghan. government? lol
This anti-terrorist stuff is bullshit. You cant directly attack terrorism in the ways he is trying to do so. He is going to war with entire countries which is very wrong. Whether or not said countries support that behavior is besides the point. Iraq isnt attacking us so why attack them. Sometimes you just have to wait for things to happen as unfortunate as they may be. We already know there isnt much Saddam can do to us directly.
You are partially corect about the halted production of our nukes and destruction of some. Only b/c we are working on other advanced methods of mass destruction.
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NEWSUPDATE: S. Korea is no longer our friend. They are heading in the direction to hostility toward us. We bailed their asses out and this is the thanks we get? Looks like we\'ll be fighting three wars at once. One with N. Korea, one with Iraq and possibly one with S. Korea (which is unlikely. they will try and use negotiations first). Its the new S. Korean president. He doesn\'t like us too much.
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My god.. Its beginning to sound like "Ein Reich, ein Volk, ein Führer" all over again..
:eek:
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Originally posted by Titan
We bailed their asses out and this is the thanks we get?
We had no business getting involved anyway.
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^^^
WORD.
Plain and simple, if the US government was to stop trying to play Jesus and bring peace to every single country in the world, none of this would of happened. Some of you sound proud that the US is going into 3 wars at once, proud about the US being one of the most hated countries, proud of the Shoot first ask questions later. Giga why cant you just let it go man, if your soo sure she aint my girlfriend, then why dont you come over here and meet her? I honestly dont care if you believe me or not. Why doesn\'t the US try find a cure for cancer, rid the world of suffering, and cover up the hole in the ozone layer? Since this country seems to think it can solve any problem, even if it isnt its business. TITAN you\'re wrong, i hate bin laden for what he did. Its terrible that he killed all those people. what i hate is the fact that if the US brings all this to itself by its own actions and so-called good deeds. Those countries didn\'t ask for help, and if they did, the only reason this gov. went in and help was to add another country that owes a favor to its list.
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YOU ARENT BEING TOLD THE WHOLE TRUTH IN US!!!
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^^^^^
Finally some body that understands. The government only tells us what we want to hear.
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The government tells us we want to hear ONLY in countries where the Gov\'t controls the media.
When was the last time the gov\'t knocked on your door and told you what you wanted to hear?
The media has total control of what is said and with the competition these days, nothing goes unsaid. If it can be found out you will be told. That is why we know that the people don\'t really hate americans like is so presented sometimes. That is the stuff coming from news organizations from those countries.
If you watch documentaries and what not you will see that the people are very repressed and are dying to get out.
Yawn, this is getting old and the pizza guy just showed up. Damn it\'s great to be an american. Pick up the phone and 20 minutes later I have pizza.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
^^^
WORD.
Plain and simple, if the US government was to stop trying to play Jesus and bring peace to every single country in the world, none of this would of happened. Some of you sound proud that the US is going into 3 wars at once, proud about the US being one of the most hated countries, proud of the Shoot first ask questions later. Giga why cant you just let it go man, if your soo sure she aint my girlfriend, then why dont you come over here and meet her? I honestly dont care if you believe me or not. Why doesn\'t the US try find a cure for cancer, rid the world of suffering, and cover up the hole in the ozone layer? Since this country seems to think it can solve any problem, even if it isnt its business. TITAN you\'re wrong, i hate bin laden for what he did. Its terrible that he killed all those people. what i hate is the fact that if the US brings all this to itself by its own actions and so-called good deeds. Those countries didn\'t ask for help, and if they did, the only reason this gov. went in and help was to add another country that owes a favor to its list.
Did I say you like bin Laden you dumbass? I said you SOUND LIKE a Bin Laden sympathiser. I DIDN"T say you were. Read.
Am I proud that we might fight three wars? Am I proud that we are the most hated country? And shoot first ask questions later is the what the military believes (and which I personally believe. you ask questions in a battle, you\'ll get yourself killed).
Hey moron, the US isn\'t trying to find a cure for cancer. Individual medical researchers are. And about patching the Ozone, you can\'t synthetically create Ozone. The chemical formula is O3 (subscript) and is like creating gold. It can\'t be done. We aren\'t the only country with a hole in the ozone. Why aren\'t you blaming other countries for not trying to patch it up? Why are you acting like its our fault that we aren\'t trying to patch it?
We aren\'t going into the other countries to they owe us a favor. We do humanitarian work for the same reason missionaries go to other countries. To help out.
About your girlfriend, its been proven by Gigashadow that she isn\'t your girlfriend and I aint paying money to go to Texas to see that you don\'t. If you really have a girlfriend, post a picture of you and her.
And SirMystiq. Vid is right about the media. The government keeps secrets which a lot do eventually get out. The media is pretty much free to say what they want. They don\'t tell us what they want to hear.
Luckee, you are right, we shouldn\'t have been in Vietnam or Korea. But the reason we did is to bring democracy to those countries which now is a lost cause. Communism isn\'t as bad as it was in the 50s and 60s.
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I ve seen enough made up lies like Saddam went to a hospital and started killing babies.
They are trying to look like peace makers.Its all bs.They are trying to create a thread.A thread in SA.And I am not getting all these stuff solely from the media.I see things.I ve been in Saudi Arabia.
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Who said he went to a hospital and killed babies? The News? If so, what news channel?
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The Iraqi\'s did go into a few Kuwaiti hospitals and take incubators. Whether a baby was in them before hand, I do not know.
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Here in Cyprus every channel plus Greek channels showed footage from a foreign channel(I cant rememer which it was) a supposed nurse saying that newborns have been unplagged from their incubators and left abandoned on the cold floor to die.
A few days later it was discoverd that the nurse was not a nurse but the daughter of the Kuweit ambassador.
LIES!!
And they havent found any nuclear weapons either.
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I saw a documentary one time was escorted around Iraq. He was able to talk to people and what not, but only with the escort with them. He went to hospitals and the doctors squacked on and on abou thow they have nothing. No prescriptions, no drugs, no equipment, and the food/drug for oil campaign wasn\'t working.
Then the escort and the dude split up for a sec and he asked a doctor some questions off to the side and he told him that they were fine.
He then went to the drug store and bought all the drugs he wanted. He even asked the guy behind the counter about a shortage and the dude had no clue what he was talking about.
Peace out. Gotta go wash the Log.
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Yes that is correct Unicorn, but incubators were taken. There is a still a debate whether any infants were harmed. Some say they were others say they were not. The daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador did play it up quite a bit though.
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Perhaps a made up documentary?:rolleyes:
Do you know that the supposed bases they ve been bombing in iraq include hospitals?
Do u also know the word veto?
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Yes that is correct Unicorn, but incubators were taken. There is a still a debate whether any infants were harmed. Some say they were others say they were not. The daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador did play it up quite a bit though.
There werent.
BTW:The reason for the attack include also matters regarding SA.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Perhaps a made up documentary?:rolleyes:
Do you know that the supposed bases they ve been bombing in iraq include hospitals?
Do u also know the word veto?
^^^^^^
This coming from a guy that lives on an island that has had the longest UN Peacekeeping mission in history and still counting!!!:rolleyes:
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Giga, just curious, what country do you live in? By the way you are posting, you sound as if you are from America but just curious.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
I saw a documentary one time was escorted around Iraq. He was able to talk to people and what not, but only with the escort with them. He went to hospitals and the doctors squacked on and on abou thow they have nothing. No prescriptions, no drugs, no equipment, and the food/drug for oil campaign wasn\'t working.
Then the escort and the dude split up for a sec and he asked a doctor some questions off to the side and he told him that they were fine.
He then went to the drug store and bought all the drugs he wanted. He even asked the guy behind the counter about a shortage and the dude had no clue what he was talking about.
Peace out. Gotta go wash the Log.
Sounds like a "documentary" made to ease American\'s conscience.
"1.2 million Iraqi people, including 750,000 children below the age of five, have died due to the scarcity of food and medicine, since the commencement of UN sanctions in 1990."
UNICEF 1997, http://www.unicef.org/newsline/99pr29.htm 020619
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Originally posted by fastson
Sounds like a "documentary" made to ease American\'s conscience.
"1.2 million Iraqi people, including 750,000 children below the age of five, have died due to the scarcity of food and medicine, since the commencement of UN sanctions in 1990."
UNICEF 1997, http://www.unicef.org/newsline/99pr29.htm 020619
You do realize that the Iraqi\' gov\'t will attribute every single death in that country to the UN Sanctions don\'t you?
Also, if they are so bad off, then overthrow the dictator who is causing the mess. He over threw the previous guy so obviously it can be done.
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Everybody screams foul on the US until they need us to haul their chestnuts out of the fire.
Excuse me while I choke down a bottle of aspirin.
Ace
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Originally posted by Videoholic
You do realize that the Iraqi\' gov\'t will attribute every single death in that country to the UN Sanctions don\'t you?
Yes I do. The propaganda works both ways.
But these numbers comes from UNICEF (United Nations International Children\'s Emergency Fund).
Its their job to bring forward believable facts like these.
Also, if they are so bad off, then overthrow the dictator who is causing the mess. He over threw the previous guy so obviously it can be done. [/B]
Yes he did, with a little help from your government ;)
Sure its possible..
But will they, now when a new master is standing at the door?
I heard reports that the Iraqi people (they are waging war between each other internally.. Different ethnic groups ect) are uniting under Saddam because of the American threat.
ACE: Yes, Im sure the people of Chili (among others) are thanking you :)
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http://www.unicef.org/iraq/situation/sit-north.htm
Oh and read this:
http://www.unicef.org/media/publications/malnutritionnov2002.doc
"The deteriorating trend of malnutrition among under-five children (U5C) seen throughout the 1990s has changed. As shown below, preliminary figures from a UNICEF-supported survey carried out in February 2002 show that acute and general malnutrition are now less than half the levels of 1996, while chronic malnutrition has fallen by nearly 30% during the same period "
Oh, here\' another:
http://www.unicef.org/newsline/02pr63iraq.htm
"BAGHDAD / GENEVA / NEW YORK, 21 November, 2002 - Child malnutrition rates in the south and center of Iraq have fallen to the lowest level since they peaked in 1996, according to a new survey released today by UNICEF."
I\'d go find more, there are tons of releases disputing what you wrote.
I just have to go hit the baseball with the big log.
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Yes I am American... I thought everyone knew that.
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Originally posted by fastson
Yes he did, with a little help from your government ;)
Yes we did. We also helped Bin Laden. We created two monsters and have to erase what we did. We needed a reason to go after Saddam. If I remember right from my history class, Saddam asked us for permission to invade Kuwait. To spring a trap, we said yes and now had a reason to kill the monster. Bin Laden attacked us so thats all we needed to kill him. During the Clinton administration, I think we had a chance to kill Bin Laden but we let him get away. We created two monsters and it is now our responsibility to eliminate them. Also, we helped both because weren\'t they at war with the Soviet Union? I know we helped Bin Laden because of that but not sure of Iraq. After the war, didn\'t Saddam gain power because of such a great job as a leader?
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Originally posted by Titan
I know we helped Bin Laden because of that but not sure of Iraq.
Iraq was helped in order to put an end to Iran, well atleast to stop the Islamic revolution which had taken place there from spreading into neighbouring countries as it would have endangered US intrests in the reigon (notably intrests involving oil).
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Thanks for clearing that up for me Tyrant.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
http://www.unicef.org/iraq/situation/sit-north.htm
Oh and read this:
http://www.unicef.org/media/publications/malnutritionnov2002.doc
"The deteriorating trend of malnutrition among under-five children (U5C) seen throughout the 1990s has changed. As shown below, preliminary figures from a UNICEF-supported survey carried out in February 2002 show that acute and general malnutrition are now less than half the levels of 1996, while chronic malnutrition has fallen by nearly 30% during the same period "
Oh, here\' another:
http://www.unicef.org/newsline/02pr63iraq.htm
"BAGHDAD / GENEVA / NEW YORK, 21 November, 2002 - Child malnutrition rates in the south and center of Iraq have fallen to the lowest level since they peaked in 1996, according to a new survey released today by UNICEF."
I\'d go find more, there are tons of releases disputing what you wrote.
I just have to go hit the baseball with the big log.
Vid: Well thats good to hear, some good news in these dull times. My numbers were a little old.
Seems some of the work to help the people of Iraq has been successful :)
Next on the agenda (IMO) is to put a end to the UN sanctions. They have brought almost nothing positive.
Titan: IIRC Usama was at war with the Russians. CIA trained Afghan soldiers to fight the Russians and the US helped them with weapons and money.
Sort of a indirect war.
As Tyrant said Saddam was helped to fight Iran and to get control over the oil via a US friendly/puppet government.
Both of them turned out to be miserable failures IMO, looking at the long-term objectives.
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Seems like everybody wants our help, but when they are finished they always want to turn on us, we need to stop helping dictators and terrorists.
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Originally posted by fastson
Vid: Well thats good to hear, some good news in these dull times. My numbers were a little old.
Seems some of the work to help the people of Iraq has been successful :)
Next on the agenda (IMO) is to put a end to the UN sanctions. They have brought almost nothing positive.
But that\'s my point Fastson. You never know what to believe. If I just assumed what your quote said was true then I\'d say to myself "Shit, we are evil."
But it isn\'t true. And so much rhetoric that comes out of that land is false. It\'s just ridiculous.
Anyway. Gotta go play with the boy.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
But that\'s my point Fastson. You never know what to believe. If I just assumed what your quote said was true then I\'d say to myself "Shit, we are evil."
But it isn\'t true. And so much rhetoric that comes out of that land is false. It\'s just ridiculous.
Anyway. Gotta go play with the boy.
Were my numbers false?
They reflect what it looked like in 1997.. But the situation has improved alot.. Which is very good.
I should have looked for more recent numbers, Im sorry.
"The large sample sizes -- nearly 24,000 households randomly selected from all governorates in the south and center of Iraq and 16,000 from the north -- helped to ensure that the margin of error for child mortality in both surveys was low,"
[...]
""We are happy with the quality of these surveys. They have been thoroughly reviewed by a panel of independent experts and no major problems were found with either the results or the way the surveys were conducted," "
[...]
"Ms. Bellamy also said that the surveys\' findings cannot be easily dismissed as an effort by Iraq to mobilize opposition to UN sanctions. "
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
^^^^^^
This coming from a guy that lives on an island that has had the longest UN Peacekeeping mission in history and still counting!!!:rolleyes:
I dont quite get the point here:confused:
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Originally posted by Unicron!
I dont quite get the point here:confused:
Meaning the UN has failed to resolve the problem on Cypress. In the history of the UN, Cypress continues to be a problem right along with Korea. Are you on the Greek side or the Turk side of the island Unicorn?
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I am on the supposed Greek side.Greek Cypriots and Turk Cypriots want to live together.
U should also know that it is Nato\'s fault for the problem in Cyprus.They tried to create the appropriate conditions for a Turkish invasion.
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Oh now your problem is NATO\'s fault... give me a break... there is too much BS in this thread. Maybe the US should pull out of everything and see how you all fair. Most likely you will be whining for help when some dictator invades your country.
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Originally posted by fastson
Were my numbers false?
They reflect what it looked like in 1997.. But the situation has improved alot.. Which is very good.
I should have looked for more recent numbers, Im sorry.
I wasn\'t saying your numbers were false. I was just saying that people tend to use the data that most represents what they want to prove. Whether it\'s outdated or not.
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You eat turnips.
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Originally posted by Videoholic
I wasn\'t saying your numbers were false. I was just saying that people tend to use the data that most represents what they want to prove. Whether it\'s outdated or not.
I get ya..
I was not trying to do that though. :)
Maybe the US should pull out of everything and see how you all fair. Most likely you will be whining for help when some dictator invades your country.
I think most civilised nations would do fine.
But I dont think everybody should stop helping eachother, instead we should give full power to the UN when it comes to these matters. And NOT go over UN\'s heads.
UN is too weak as it is now IMO.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Oh now your problem is NATO\'s fault... give me a break... there is too much BS in this thread. Maybe the US should pull out of everything and see how you all fair. Most likely you will be whining for help when some dictator invades your country.
:rolleyes:
US THE PEACE MAKERS YEAH RIGHT!!!You are in the US and you beleive what you see.Which is what the US wants u to see.
You dont know how Cyprus ended up like it is now.
But most importantly you dont know the true reason for the attack in Iraq.
BTW:Bush sure helped the Palestininans from the dictatorship of Israel.Oh they also helped to bring down the dictatorship in Turkiy.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Unicron!
:rolleyes:
US THE PEACE MAKERS YEAH RIGHT!!!You are in the US and you beleive what you see.Which is what the US wants u to see.
You dont know how Cyprus ended up like it is now.
But most importantly you dont know the true reason for the attack in Iraq.
BTW:Bush sure helped the Palestininans from the dictatorship of Israel.Oh they also helped to bring down the dictatorship in Turkiy.:rolleyes:
I\'m sorry, what did the leader of Cyprus do to help the Palestinians from the dictatorship of Israel?
And you are right, I have no clue why Cyprus is like it is now. Heck, I can\'t tell you a damn thing about 100\'s of tiny countries.
Back to work. Work Sucks.....
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Originally posted by Videoholic
Back to work. Work Sucks.....
Feel my pain Vid. :D
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Originally posted by Unicron!
:rolleyes:
US THE PEACE MAKERS YEAH RIGHT!!!You are in the US and you beleive what you see.Which is what the US wants u to see.
You dont know how Cyprus ended up like it is now.
But most importantly you dont know the true reason for the attack in Iraq.
BTW:Bush sure helped the Palestininans from the dictatorship of Israel.Oh they also helped to bring down the dictatorship in Turkiy.:rolleyes:
It seems that you are directing your hostility towards the wrong country Unicorn - regarding the Cyprus matter. It seems Britain has been the chief opponent to the unification of the island, not the US or NATO. We never hear of Cyprus here as the US has no interest in Cyprus or what goes on there. So stop blaming the US and the organizations to which it belongs (ie, NATO) for your tiny countries problems.
http://www.cosmosnet.net/cyprus/history/hist13.htm
Do you really believe that the US media is run by the government? It is far from perfect, but it is not state controlled. Who do you think participates in UN peacekeeping missions and contributes the most the UN? The US does. I really have to wonder which way your TV antena is pointed - most likely to the east. I could say you believe everything you see on the biased television you obviously watch, but I won\'t as who knows how legitimate the sources of information you get are.
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Further information to debunk Unicorn\'s assertion that NATO paved the way for a "Turkish" invasion of Cyprus.
After 1967 some hopes arose that a compromise on separate municipalities could be achieved in negotiations between Glafcos Clerides and Rauf Denktash and certainly agreement came close, but the Makarios government could not accept de jure separateness, which would have denied the principle of the unitary, if bi-communal, state. Inter-communal strife was also overshadowed during this period by a serious rift on the Greek side, between Makarios and the enosist National Front supported by the Greek junta. Makarios had now become an obstacle to enosis. An attempt was made on his life, and Grivas returned in 1971 to head a new organi- sation, EOKA-B, with Makarios, rather than the Turkish-Cypriots, in its sight. Makarios was told from Athens to dismiss his foreign minister and to regard Athens as the National Centre. Makarios rallied supporters successfully against attempts to remove him. He was still popular in Cyprus.
Matters became worse when a new junta came to power in September 1973, and there was less relief from rightist pressure than might have been expected when Grivas died suddenly in January 1974. The pressure mounted until a coup in July 1974 led by a `hammer of the Turks\' Nicos Sampson, overthrew Makarios, who managed to flee the country via a British base. For Turkey this raised the spectre of Greek control of Cyprus.
The Turkish government therefore now demanded that Greece should dismiss Sampson, withdraw all Greek officers from the island and respect the island\'s independence. The junta prevaricated. For the United States, Kissinger did not seem to be greatly disturbed by the Sampson coup and looked as if he could accept enosis. Turkish Prime Minister Ecevit\'s assertiveness in foreign policy, reinforced by his junior coalition partner strongly inclined the Turks to intervene. The British were invited to participate in military operations, under the Treaty of Guarantee, but declined. The American envoy Joseph Sisco tried unsuccessfully to persuade the Greek junta to accept Ecevit\'s conditions for a Cyprus settlement, which included Turkish-Cypriot control of a coastal region in the north and negotiations for a federal solution. The Soviet Union stood aside not wanting to see enosis, which would strengthen NATO and weaken the left in Cyprus.
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Down with the US and Kissinger that war monger. Wait, Bush, he\'s the warmonger. Down with Bush and all that he has done to Cyprus!!!
All kidding aside, where did you quote that from Giga? You should put a link to back it up.
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I made it up! Just kidding... I knew I forgot something...
http://bornova.ege.edu.tr/~ncyprus/cyp6.html
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Originally posted by Unicron!
BTW:Bush sure helped the Palestininans from the dictatorship of Israel.Oh they also helped to bring down the dictatorship in Turkiy.:rolleyes:
Uh huh. The US is helping Palistinians. If we were helping the Palistinians, we wouldn\'t have even gotten attacked. The reason we are a prime target for terrorism by Islamic extremists is because we are helping Israel. Otherwise we would be attacked by no one.
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Here it is.. Quite close to one of the evil axis nations, hmm.. Good excuse to NUKE EM! BOOYAH.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Ftravel%2Fimages%2Fmaps%2Fmideast.gif&hash=806cb883c6315677a60af6cffa04ab9f07d89672)
(j/k)
Anyways, Ive never been to Cyrpus.. But a few of my friends have.. They said it was a beautiful place. :)
If you think we are tiny now.. Have a look at this map.
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1300.htm
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
I made it up! Just kidding... I knew I forgot something...
http://bornova.ege.edu.tr/~ncyprus/cyp6.html
Taken from a Turkish site which is mostly trying to justify the invasion.
Some parts of the article are misleading and it\'s oalso incomplete.
Here is a translation of a part of a Cypriot article(*some names might be wronly spelled as they are being translated from greek):
"When in Frebruary of 1964 efforts of the initiative of the American vice-chancellor of the foreign secrettarty George Ball to persuate Makarios to accept NATO forces in Cyprus were sinking to failure, an alternative plan was to be put into practice.A plan of a Greek-Turkish interfearance.The information about Ball\'s plans were forwarded to London by the under-secretary consular resident of Britain in Nicosia Siril Pikard who participated in Ball\'s-Mkarios\' discussions.In a note of his to London,Pikard refered to settlements with the Greeks and the Turks according to which the two countries would send huge forces with the intention to bring peace to the island if anything occured.According to Pikard, Ball saw possible such an action and in case that the discussions collapsed he would turn back through Athens and Ankara for that perpose"
Then the Zurich agreement comes to mind and Grivas\' EOKA B which put into danger Turkish Cypriots and gave the green light to the Turkish invasion.
http://www.kypros.org/PIO/cygov/constitution/appendix_d_part13.htm
Article 183
1. In case of war or other public danger threatening the life of the Republic or any part thereof, the Council of Ministers shall have power, by a decision taken in this respect, to issue a Proclamation of Emergency:
)A coup d\'etat by Grivas.A man that was giving in greeks to the Nazi\'s. An effort to bring down Makarios who was rightfully,legally elected by people and put Sampson in his place who used to slaughter innocent turkish cypriot women and children
Also check Cyprus\' geographical position and judge again of its an insignificant small island.(In the middle of Asia,Africa,Europe and Russia
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Do you really believe that the US media is run by the government? It is far from perfect, but it is not state controlled. Who do you think participates in UN peacekeeping missions and contributes the most the UN? The US does. I really have to wonder which way your TV antena is pointed - most likely to the east. I could say you believe everything you see on the biased television you obviously watch, but I won\'t as who knows how legitimate the sources of information you get are.
U are not being told the whole thruth thats for sure.And my TV antenna is not pointed to the east.Its pointed to Europe.I am not the one who beleives everything I see on the biased Television.I am taking as much information as possible.I live things,I know things, I see things and I ve been in SA.
What are u trying to say?That I am being brainwashed by media from the east??What\'s next?I am sent by Iraq?
expect the attack in 13th in January(I ll check it again though).
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You\'re right, the media is biased in this country. It\'s biased to the liberal side of things.
One thing is for sure. If the press could take down this president with a scandal involving the Iraqi situation, or any other scandalous behavior, it would.
Ace
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Taken from a Turkish site which is mostly trying to justify the invasion.
Some parts of the article are misleading and it\'s oalso incomplete.
Here is a translation of a part of a Cypriot article(*some names might be wronly spelled as they are being translated from greek):
"When in Frebruary of 1964 efforts of the initiative of the American vice-chancellor of the foreign secrettarty George Ball to persuate Makarios to accept NATO forces in Cyprus were sinking to failure, an alternative plan was to be put into practice.A plan of a Greek-Turkish interfearance.The information about Ball\'s plans were forwarded to London by the under-secretary consular resident of Britain in Nicosia Siril Pikard who participated in Ball\'s-Mkarios\' discussions.In a note of his to London,Pikard refered to settlements with the Greeks and the Turks according to which the two countries would send huge forces with the intention to bring peace to the island if anything occured.According to Pikard, Ball saw possible such an action and in case that the discussions collapsed he would turn back through Athens and Ankara for that perpose"
Then the Zurich agreement comes to mind and Grivas\' EOKA B which put into danger Turkish Cypriots and gave the green light to the Turkish invasion.
http://www.kypros.org/PIO/cygov/constitution/appendix_d_part13.htm
)A coup d\'etat by Grivas.A man that was giving in greeks to the Nazi\'s. An effort to bring down Makarios who was rightfully,legally elected by people and put Sampson in his place who used to slaughter innocent turkish cypriot women and children
Also check Cyprus\' geographical position and judge again of its an insignificant small island.(In the middle of Asia,Africa,Europe and Russia
Nice article, but it doesn\'t support your assertion that NATO is responsible for the problems on Cyprus. Are you related to "the hammer of the turks" by any chance?
Um its not in Asia, nor Russia... yes its in the Mediteranean, but so is Sicily, Malta and quite a few other islands.
Also you may be close to Iraq (probably close enough to hear his propaganda), but don\'t worry - the jet stream moves from west to east so you have no need to worry about fallout... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by fastson
Here it is.. Quite close to one of the evil axis nations, hmm.. Good excuse to NUKE EM! BOOYAH.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Ftravel%2Fimages%2Fmaps%2Fmideast.gif&hash=806cb883c6315677a60af6cffa04ab9f07d89672)
(j/k)
Anyways, Ive never been to Cyrpus.. But a few of my friends have.. They said it was a beautiful place. :)
If you think we are tiny now.. Have a look at this map.
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1300.htm
Yes yes... I took the course Central European History "2000 Years of Germany" in college... nice map from the 14th Century btw!
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Originally posted by Ace
You\'re right, the media is biased in this country. It\'s biased to the liberal side of things.
One thing is for sure. If the press could take down this president with a scandal involving the Iraqi situation, or any other scandalous behavior, it would.
Ace
OMG, is this a republican I hear in the land of Democrats?
Unicron, what in the world did that article have to do with the US?
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Nice article, but it doesn\'t support your assertion that NATO is responsible for the problems on Cyprus. Are you related to "the hammer of the turks" by any chance?
Um its not in Asia, nor Russia... yes its in the Mediteranean, but so is Sicily, Malta and quite a few other islands.
Originally posted by Videoholic
OMG, is this a republican I hear in the land of Democrats?
Unicron, what in the world did that article have to do with the US?
What is the Cypriot matter at the present time:Find a solution to the dichotomy.And keep Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots(and turkish colonists) satisfied without causing any problems between them.
Makarios did\'t accept the NATO forces in Cyprus because the Soviet Union quaranteed safety for the Greek Cypriots from a Turkish thread.
NATO forces in Cyprus was a kind of a thread and a back stab from Makarios for the Soviets.He couldnt risk that safety.
Also that would have caused some other problems for Makarios as Greek Cypriots wouldnt accept such a decision after all the struggle they did to gain their independency from the English.
He had no other choice.
Then NATO feared a chance for the Soviets in the future to gain some control on the island and didnt like the chance of a communism to take over the island either(This could have strengthen the communist party in Greece.The left site party in Greece already had some power and Greece was politically unstable after the fall of jounta and Greece was no longer as important anymore as a NATO force.Not as important as the Turks).
So NATO wanted to satisfy the Turks.In 1974 they send officers from the junda and fund them so they would start a crisis and the coup, and give the green light to the Turkish invasion as an excuse to protect the Turkish Cypriots(Guess what:They didnt give a damn sh!t about the Turkish Cypriots).That way Makarios loses his control on half of the island.
Everything was set up from the beginning.In the English bases they knew exactly the time the coup would start,and exactly when the invasions would happen.
My grandfather who worked in the English bases the day the coup would start he was being kept in the base,not letting him go, they cut any form of communication and Turkish Cypriots near the bases were brought there a day before.
And the biggest surprie:The were camouflaging their planes as Turkish.
Also you may be close to Iraq (probably close enough to hear his propaganda), but don\'t worry - the jet stream moves from west to east so you have no need to worry about fallout... :rolleyes:
Thats the lamest thing I ve ever heard.
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Did you know that Bush attended the Miss World pageant, and was caught in bed with Miss Iraq?
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^^^ Bull shit :)