PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: GigaShadow on January 30, 2003, 12:50:15 PM
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Not all Europeans are against war with Iraq. The following letter was written jointly by the PM of Spain, Portugal, Italy and Britain, the President of the Czech Republic and the PM\'s of Hungary, Poland and Denmark and published January 30, 2003. I knew Sammy wasn\'t a commie ;)
United We Stand
By José María Aznar, José-Manuel Durão Barroso, Silvio Berlusconi, Tony Blair, Václav Havel, Peter Medgyessy, Leszek Miller and Anders Fogh Rasmussen
The real bond between the U.S. and Europe is the values we share: democracy, individual freedom, human rights and the rule of law. These values crossed the Atlantic with those who sailed from Europe to help create the United States of America. Today they are under greater threat than ever.
The attacks of Sept. 11 showed just how far terrorists — the enemies of our common values — are prepared to go to destroy them. Those outrages were an attack on all of us. In standing firm in defense of these principles, the governments and people of the U.S. and Europe have amply demonstrated the strength of their convictions. Today more than ever, the trans-Atlantic bond is a guarantee of our freedom.
We in Europe have a relationship with the U.S. which has stood the test of time. Thanks in large part to American bravery, generosity and farsightedness, Europe was set free from the two forms of tyranny that devastated our continent in the 20th century: Nazism and communism. Thanks, too, to the continued cooperation between Europe and the U.S. we have managed to guarantee peace and freedom on our continent. The trans-Atlantic relationship must not become a casualty of the current Iraqi regime\'s persistent attempts to threaten world security.
In today\'s world, more than ever before, it is vital that we preserve that unity and cohesion. We know that success in the day-to-day battle against terrorism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction demands unwavering determination and firm international cohesion on the part of all countries for whom freedom is precious.
The Iraqi regime and its weapons of mass destruction represent a clear threat to world security. This danger has been explicitly recognized by the U.N. All of us are bound by Security Council Resolution 1441, which was adopted unanimously. We Europeans have since reiterated our backing for Resolution 1441, our wish to pursue the U.N. route, and our support for the Security Council at the Prague NATO Summit and the Copenhagen European Council.
In doing so, we sent a clear, firm and unequivocal message that we would rid the world of the danger posed by Saddam Hussein\'s weapons of mass destruction. We must remain united in insisting that his regime be disarmed. The solidarity, cohesion and determination of the international community are our best hope of achieving this peacefully. Our strength lies in unity.
The combination of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism is a threat of incalculable consequences. It is one at which all of us should feel concerned. Resolution 1441 is Saddam Hussein\'s last chance to disarm using peaceful means. The opportunity to avoid greater confrontation rests with him. Sadly this week the U.N. weapons inspectors have confirmed that his long-established pattern of deception, denial and non-compliance with U.N. Security Council resolutions is continuing.
Europe has no quarrel with the Iraqi people. Indeed, they are the first victims of Iraq\'s current brutal regime. Our goal is to safeguard world peace and security by ensuring that this regime gives up its weapons of mass destruction. Our governments have a common responsibility to face this threat. Failure to do so would be nothing less than negligent to our own citizens and to the wider world.
The U.N. Charter charges the Security Council with the task of preserving international peace and security. To do so, the Security Council must maintain its credibility by ensuring full compliance with its resolutions. We cannot allow a dictator to systematically violate those resolutions. If they are not complied with, the Security Council will lose its credibility and world peace will suffer as a result. We are confident that the Security Council will face up to its responsibilities.
The link is here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77083,00.html
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Those countries are sucking up to uncle sam. ;)
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Nice to read something positive about all this. I think I\'ll post this on another board.
Ace
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Ooooh, more ass licking, just like Australia.
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Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Ooooh, more ass licking, just like Australia.
Our asses should be kissed.
Ace
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I reckon John Howard has already rimmed and fuc*ed Bush who knows how many times, he is obsessed with the man.
I don\'t mind though, I generally agree with what they both say, its just that its such blatent ass licking.
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Well if that\'s true, I hope he kissed him after he f\'d him.
Ace
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i hope after they licked ass they had some decency to use a strong mouthwash before they kissed.
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Has UN taken any decisions about the Iraqi "war" and the UN inspectors report yet?
If not when will they?
Also did Bush say he will present new evidence towards Iraq, if so when?
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Originally posted by fastson
Has UN taken any decisions about the Iraqi "war" and the UN inspectors report yet?
If not when will they?
Also did Bush say he will present new evidence towards Iraq, if so when?
No firm decision yet by the UN but the tide is turning in favor of Bush.
On Feb. 5th Secretary of State Colin Powell is due to lay out more evidence.
Ace
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Yeah I thought it was very well written. As for Iraq... has anyone seen that ad with Susan Sarandon asking the question "What has Iraq done to us?" The guy behind that ad was on Hannity and Colmes last night and Hannity had the guy stumbling over his words.
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Originally posted by Ace
No firm decision yet by the UN but the tide is turning in favor of Bush.
On Feb. 5th Secretary of State Colin Powell is due to lay out more evidence.
Ace
lets hope for GWB sake that the evidence is more convincing than the Last batch.
You know we have still to be given a damn good reason why we should attack other than he MIGHT have weapons of mass destruction.
Also I would be so Pro war Ace, Bin Laden is prying that the US & UK attacks Iraq… as it would only help to fuel Anti Western view among Arab states.
The words .. playing into their hands instantly springs to mind
Because we could have a situation like this,
UK & US attack
Iraqi forces are pushed back within the first few weeks, and no that Saddam see’s that the end is near Equips terrorists with chemical and bio weapons. And as the Country descends into chaos as 100,000’s of refuges flee from the country. The terrorists escape among them with the weapons into countries like Turkey, Iran and S. Arabia .
Result?
We have turned a contained situation (which it is at the present) into a situation where international terrorists could be in possession of Chemical and Biological weapons.
Oh and also we will also have over 0.5 million Iraq civilians as refuges if full out attack was to take place.
Current Red cross estimates put initial Civilian casualties at 500,000 and that figure could rise to higher due to starvation and diseases which could go from epidemic to PANDEMIC proportions.
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The propaganda machine is on full swing. It\'d be very surprising if there wasn\'t a war after all that. Despite all the potential horrors of the coming war, don\'t you stop and wonder if Bush\'s claims are actually true? I mean, at first most of Europe was ardently against any action against Iraq; Turkey in particular. But now we see them toe Bush\'s line as if just out of the blue. Maybe the US does have definate proof that Saddam is doing something bad and are only showing it to trusted governments to protect their sources.
I mean, it couldn\'t be the US offering money or any kind of economic benefit. It definately wouldn\'t be the promise of oil (I don\'t belive the Europeans would be that immoral). It couldn\'t e the US threatning to kick Europe\'s ass. What elese could it be?
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Thanks in large part to American bravery, generosity and farsightedness, Europe was set free from the two forms of tyranny that devastated our continent in the 20th century: Nazism and communism.
It’s nice to see that some of the European countries remember this history.
As for you ooseven, when the US enters into war with the Iraqis, we will not stop at just the tyrannical reign of Saddam, we will continue the war on terrorism and we will continue to see them on the run. We will liberate these countries. How do I know this? I know it because there is an old saying that goes “history repeats itself”. Again there is someone in the world that is under the threat of a homicidal dictator and the States will not allow this to happen. Every man, woman and child deserve to live a free people.
A great officer in the Japanese navy once said after bombing Pearl Harbor, “I fear we may have awaken a great sleeping giant”. If Saddam had two bit to know better he too would have spoke those words when he decided to resist in laying down the weapons programs. He may not have flown the plains into our buildings but he has assumed the role of a threat to sister countries around the globe.
Our forces are going to beat him as we have beaten Hitler and the likes of any communist dictator. He will know the meaning of the phrase “we’re gonna beat him like a redheaded stepchild”.
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^
^
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now that is a little bit too right wing for my liking.
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LOL, those 8 countries ain\'t Europe. I mean, Germany, France, Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands and Luxemburg) and so on, intentionally did NOT sign that letter. If those countries would
be on that list, THEN it would be the voice of Europe. Hell those 8 countries didn\'t even inform the chairman-country of the European Union, Greece :o They were probably affraid the rest of Europe wouldn\'t back them up.
I myself live in the Netherlands. Majority of Dutch ppl are AGAINST war, even stronger anti war feelings rise in France and Germany. Right now I\'m against war too.
I think Bundeskanzler Schroder put it right when he said he would do everything he could to keep a non-force resolving policy.
Especially with keeping his countries\' history in mind he\'s making the right decision.
Why did Bush resolve the N-Korea nuclear item with a velvet soft
approach and almost declare war against Iraq (with still NO hard evidence) ? :rolleyes: Oil , anyone ? Europe isn\'t anti-USA, it\'s just anti war. It would be downright unfair to call Europe anti American. The \'You\'re either with us, or against us\' by Bush approach is absurd :mad:
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The end result is we are going to do what we deem necessary to deal with the situation.
Ace
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feh..... we could kick their asses without europe. It\'s just nice to know that there are 8 countries in europe who aren\'t complete scumbag cowards.
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This is true and that is one of the reasons I think France and Germany are being ass-wipes.
We know there is no one on this earth that is willing to do what has to be done, and that no other country is going to protect us and the rest of the world.
No offense, but by saying it\'s all about oil is looking at this situation in a very simplistic way.
Just my opinion.
Ace
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Originally posted by Knotter8
LOL, those 8 countries ain\'t Europe. I mean, Germany, France, Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands and Luxemburg) and so on, intentionally did NOT sign that letter. If those countries would
be on that list, THEN it would be the voice of Europe. Hell those 8 countries didn\'t even inform the chairman-country of the European Union, Greece :o They were probably affraid the rest of Europe wouldn\'t back them up.
I myself live in the Netherlands. Majority of Dutch ppl are AGAINST war, even stronger anti war feelings rise in France and Germany. Right now I\'m against war too.
I think Bundeskanzler Schroder put it right when he said he would do everything he could to keep a non-force resolving policy.
Especially with keeping his countries\' history in mind he\'s making the right decision.
Why did Bush resolve the N-Korea nuclear item with a velvet soft
approach and almost declare war against Iraq (with still NO hard evidence) ? :rolleyes: Oil , anyone ? Europe isn\'t anti-USA, it\'s just anti war. It would be downright unfair to call Europe anti American. The \'You\'re either with us, or against us\' by Bush approach is absurd :mad:
This is one time I feel I am going to go off on someone... so here it goes... The Dutch :rolleyes: have such a twisted view of history and politics. You show no gratitude towards a country that liberated you when you were occupied by one of the most oppressive regimes in history and afterwards this same country protected your country from being under another oppressive regime (ie. the Soviet Union).
Speaking of oil, the reason the French and the Germans are so against War, is due to THEIR oil interests. Germany doesn\'t have a veto power as neither does Belgium, Luxemburg (does that even count as a country :rolleyes: ? and Holland). France only wants to feel important because in reality they aren\'t.
As for Holland, you live in a Socialist country that lets their citizens use drugs in public places, condones prostitution and IMHO has one of the dirtiest cities in the whole of Europe besides Venice.
You can bank on this Knotter... The US will act with or without "allies" and its foreign policy will NOT be dictated by France, Germany or Holland.
Now back to your regular programming...
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Originally posted by project86
As for you ooseven, when the US enters into war with the Iraqis, we will not stop at just the tyrannical reign of Saddam, we will continue the war on terrorism and we will continue to see them on the run. We will liberate these countries. How do I know this? I know it because there is an old saying that goes “history repeats itself”. Again there is someone in the world that is under the threat of a homicidal dictator and the States will not allow this to happen. Every man, woman and child deserve to live a free people.
The is that the situation in Iraq is worse that it was in Afghanistan, here we have had over 12 years of UN Sanctions and US & UK bombing.
This has left the country in a perpetual state of collapse where the ordinary people are malnourished and anaemic (most of the population have been living under lass than basic conditions.)
This will only complicate the situation if a full salce attack on the country takes place, as with most examples in history.. Diseased and mass civilian evacuation all ways follow a war of this magnitude.
And with Best intentions aside the Iraq people will only suffer more through the all out offensive due to the nature of the conflict
I believe the plan is to cut off all routes of possible escape for combatants (like bombing bridges and cutting potential sources of escape for refuges.
Now remember the Figures quoted by the Red Cross, these are just projections but with a population of over 10 million, it’s optimistic at best.
This plan for an all out offensive might seam like a quicker victory but it will not be easier for the Iraqi people as many of them will die through the hands of disease/ starvation etc than by Saddam or Collateral damage.
Also Ace please think before you use the “by any means” this so called are for freedom won’t benefit the people that rreally need it.. The Iraqi people as most of them will be long dead before they can truely be free.
Remember Saddam like Bin Laden is a Monster of our own creation.
Us .. i.e. the West, made Saddam, in fact we sold him most of his weapons and trained a large portion of his elite republican guard.
Bin Laden = trained and Equipped by the CIA to fight the Russians
Saddam = Supported and equipped by a vast majority of influential powers (US/UK/France/Germany/Russia /China) through the 80’s (Intel supplyed to him by the CIA)
Moral of the story
Don’t train and support potential monsters, because one day they come back to bite us on the respective Ass
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OK, you say we created these monsters. Well, what are we supposed to do now? Nothing just to spite ourselves? Do we keep taking a beating so the rest of the world can be happy? Sorry, it does not work that way.
I believe the Iraqi people will benefit the most from us extracting that sorry excuse of a human being Saddam.
Ace
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I haven\'t read all the responses thoroughly but I\'ll make my response short and to the point :
Saddam MUST be taken out. Iraqi people may seem all pro-Saddam on the streets but many of them do it out of fear of being labelled as a traitor if they show no support for Saddam.
Just like how the US and Britain and Australia (and others who I\'ve forgotten - like the Canadians ;) ) attacked the Talibans, in doing so, we were all utterly surprised at the suffering of the Afghan women under the abusive control of the Talibans. Once Saddam is taken out, you will hear about the suffering of the Iraqi people under Saddam\'s rule.
The first Weapons Inspections in the mid 90\'s found several hudreds of gallons of anthrax in Iraq. The ones that were found were destroyed. There were more but the Iraqi officials kept playing the Inspectors as fools and they played the foolish role perfectly. Partly due to the fact that Clinton did not use force to back up the inspectors.
Then Saddam expelled all the inspectors. Clinton did nothing.
You think Saddam has no weapons of mass destruction? 100 inspectors looking for weapons in a country the size of California. Come on. It\'s not that hard to disassemble those weapons and hide them.
Whether you like it or not, Saddam must be taken out. Don\'t like it? Go to Iraq and protest. Please.
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Originally posted by Ace
OK, you say we created these monsters. Well, what are we supposed to do now? Nothing just to spite ourselves? Do we keep taking a beating so the rest of the world can be happy? Sorry, it does not work that way.
I believe the Iraqi people will benefit the most from us extracting that sorry excuse of a human being Saddam.
Ace
we could start to take some Goddamn responsibility for our actions.
Like prosecuting intelligence agents/ arms deals / and even government departments both in the US and UK who supported these B@stards.
Everyone responsible for the support and supply to these people knew fine and well who and what they where. The only difference was that back in the 80’s we conveniently forgot that they were monsters because it suited US & UK policys or intrest.
Example the chemical weapons sold to Saddam during the Iran Iraq War.
Or
The CIA training & Stinger missiles given to Bin Laden During the Afghanistan war.
The simple fact of the matter is that we both live in two countries which claim to support democracy and to up hold Human rights. BUT if you just happen to live in a Country like Iraq and your leader is although known to be a tyrant, then YOUR life is worth JACKSH!T.
If we are going to attack then we should at least round up the people in the west who supported Saddam with intelligence/ Weapons/ and Money.
Other wise The Gulf War 2 will be the greatest examples of Double standards.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
I haven\'t read all the responses thoroughly but I\'ll make my response short and to the point :
Saddam MUST be taken out. Iraqi people may seem all pro-Saddam on the streets but many of them do it out of fear of being labelled as a traitor if they show no support for Saddam.
Just like how the US and Britain and Australia (and others who I\'ve forgotten - like the Canadians ;) ) attacked the Talibans, in doing so, we were all utterly surprised at the suffering of the Afghan women under the abusive control of the Talibans. Once Saddam is taken out, you will hear about the suffering of the Iraqi people under Saddam\'s rule.
The first Weapons Inspections in the mid 90\'s found several hudreds of gallons of anthrax in Iraq. The ones that were found were destroyed. There were more but the Iraqi officials kept playing the Inspectors as fools and they played the foolish role perfectly. Partly due to the fact that Clinton did not use force to back up the inspectors.
Then Saddam expelled all the inspectors. Clinton did nothing.
You think Saddam has no weapons of mass destruction? 100 inspectors looking for weapons in a country the size of California. Come on. It\'s not that hard to disassemble those weapons and hide them.
Whether you like it or not, Saddam must be taken out. Don\'t like it? Go to Iraq and protest. Please.
Better yet, go to Iraq and volunteer to be one of his human shields. ;)
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Whether you like it or not, Saddam must be taken out. Don\'t like it? Go to Iraq and protest. Please.
Agreed, but using enough firepower to launch the country into orbit won\'t do much for US & UK reputation.
Remember we are not only trying to fight a war on terrorism, but we are also trying to de-credit the Allegations that the “West” is anti Islam
then if we can do that.. we will be able to remove or atleast reduce Bin Ladins rhetoric.
Remember there are other options open for the removal of Saddam.
and most of them don\'t even involve the level of man power we are committing.
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Originally posted by ooseven
we could start to take some Goddamn responsibility for our actions.
Like prosecuting intelligence agents/ arms deals / and even government departments both in the US and UK who supported these B@stards.
Everyone responsible for the support and supply to these people knew fine and well who and what they where. The only difference was that back in the 80’s we conveniently forgot that they were monsters because it suited US & UK policys or intrest.
Example the chemical weapons sold to Saddam during the Iran Iraq War.
Or
The CIA training & Stinger missiles given to Bin Laden During the Afghanistan war.
The simple fact of the matter is that we both live in two countries which claim to support democracy and to up hold Human rights. BUT if you just happen to live in a Country like Iraq and your leader is although known to be a tyrant, then YOUR life is worth JACKSH!T.
If we are going to attack then we should at least round up the people in the west who supported Saddam with intelligence/ Weapons/ and Money.
Other wise The Gulf War 2 will be the greatest examples of Double standards.
Come on ooseven, prosecuting an agency for the policy of the government during that time period? That is insane. When the US and the UK gave support to these people, they were fighting a common enemy (ie. Iran or the USSR). It was a different time with different motives for supporting these people.
If you really want to go down this path, why not persecute the Germans who actually sold components to Iraq to build weapons of mass destruction.
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Originally posted by ooseven
Agreed, but using enough firepower to launch the country into orbit won\'t do much for US & UK reputation.
Remember we are not only trying to fight a war on terrorism, but we are also trying to de-credit the Allegations that the “West” is anti Islam
then if we can do that.. we will be able to remove or atleast reduce Bin Ladins rhetoric.
Remember there are other options open for the removal of Saddam.
and most of them don\'t even involve the level of man power we are committing.
I don\'t see any other options...
Assassination? good luck finding him (well the real Saddam anyway)
Sanctions? they don\'t work.
Inspections? they don\'t work either.
Exile? He won\'t go.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
If you really want to go down this path, why not persecute the Germans who actually sold components to Iraq to build weapons of mass destruction.
France as well. They sold Iraq a reactor. Luckily Israel flattened the thing before it went on-line.
I just remembered it\'s FRIDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ace
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Originally posted by Ace
France as well. They sold Iraq a reactor. Luckily Israel flattened the thing before it went on-line.
I just remembered it\'s FRIDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ace
Oh yeah it is isn\'t it? :D I am in a lousy mood today...
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Originally posted by ooseven
Moral of the story
Don’t train and support potential monsters, because one day they come back to bite us on the respective Ass
I understand that complaint. During WW2, we helped USSR and China. When the war was over, we nearly got into WW3 with USSR.
Point is, you never know. You wanna defeat the enemy? Well, you can\'t win without help from some of your less derable neighbors so you do the best you can.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Come on ooseven, prosecuting an agency for the policy of the government during that time period? That is insane. When the US and the UK gave support to these people, they were fighting a common enemy (ie. Iran or the USSR). It was a different time with different motives for supporting these people.
If you really want to go down this path, why not persecute the Germans who actually sold components to Iraq to build weapons of mass destruction.
thats insane ?
whats more insane.
using diplomatic and economic means to reduce the USSR\'s infulence durin the 80\'s
or
Arming "the Butcher of Baghdad with enough chemical and biological weapons to kill the world 4 times over.
remember the USSR and even Iran was never in the position to do the old "empire" expansion.
USSR was always on the verdge of economic collapse (even during the 80\'s)
and As for Iran... they where to busy reforming their country under Islamic law to pose a threat.
in fact they could of finished of Saddam long before the end of the 80\'s.
Remember the only thing that stopped them winning the war was the fact that saddam was supplyed and used the chemical weapons he "aquired" :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by ooseven
thats insane ?
whats more insane.
using diplomatic and economic means to reduce the USSR\'s infulence durin the 80\'s
or
Arming "the Butcher of Baghdad with enough chemical and biological weapons to kill the world 4 times over.
remember the USSR and even Iran was never in the position to do the old "empire" expansion.
USSR was always on the verdge of economic collapse (even during the 80\'s)
and As for Iran... they where to busy reforming their country under Islamic law to pose a threat.
in fact they could of finished of Saddam long before the end of the 80\'s.
Remember the only thing that stopped them winning the war was the fact that saddam was supplyed and used the chemical weapons he "aquired" :rolleyes:
The US didn\'t supply him with the chemical and biological weapons he has... *looks over in the direction of Europe*
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
I don\'t see any other options...
Assassination? good luck finding him (well the real Saddam anyway)
Sanctions? they don\'t work.
Inspections? they don\'t work either.
Exile? He won\'t go.
Revolutions
oh wait forgot.
George Bush.... GWB\'s daddy tryed that one.
remember the anouncment just after the Gulf War
"if the Iraqi people rise up the West will suppot them"
and what happend
they rebeled took control of Bazra (sp) for 2 days in fact.
and what happned next ?
well we just sat on our hands while the reformed Republican Gaurd salughtered Iraqi rebels in their 1000\'s
Woot it almost makes you proud you on the side of right :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by ooseven
Revolutions
oh wait forgot.
George Bush.... GWB\'s daddy tryed that one.
remember the anouncment just after the Gulf War
"if the Iraqi people rise up the West will suppot them"
and what happend
they rebeled took control of Bazra (sp) for 2 days in fact.
and what happned next ?
well we just sat on our hands while the reformed Republican Gaurd salughtered Iraqi rebels in their 1000\'s
Woot it almost makes you proud you on the side of right :rolleyes:
ooseven, the UN tied our hands on that one. The UN resolution only called for the liberation of Kuwait, not the overthrow of Saddam.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
The US didn\'t supply him with the chemical and biological weapons he has... *looks over in the direction of Europe*
sorry but but i seam to remember in saying everyone was to blame.
i mean here we have The Iraqi Dictatorship fashion range ..availbe if only you has 11% of the Worlds Oil reserves that is ;).
Weapons grade Anthrax From Mr Rundsfeld (US)
Nuclear Reactor by France
Special Forces training for Saddams personal body guards by the SAS (UK)
T45 Main Battle Tanks from the former USSR
Ak47’s by God Know’s who most likely the former USSR
VX Gas…isn’t that American ?
Mig’s 21 from the former USSR.
Intel during the Iran/Iraq war.. the CIA
Silkworm “anti ship” missiles from the Peoples republic of China
AAA guns mixture usually old from Europan countries (UK...France...Germany)
SCUD’s From North Korea
Iraqi Super Gun parts from UK
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
ooseven, the UN tied our hands on that one. The UN resolution only called for the liberation of Kuwait, not the overthrow of Saddam.
nope the UN didn\'t Block that one.
but we where Advised Against it.
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ooseven can you provide a link to the US supplying weapons grade anthrax? Also the supergun is sort of irrelevant as it was never used and is pretty much non existant. The UK caught their mistake and nipped it in the bud.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
ooseven can you provide a link to the US supplying weapons grade anthrax? Also the supergun is sort of irrelevant as it was never used and is pretty much non existant. The UK caught their mistake and nipped it in the bud.
Anthrax was supplyed by person or Persons Unknown but the man responcible at the time as Mr Rundsfeld.
and As for the Super Gun.
Iraq alread have smaller version..prob build with British parts . that can launch Artillery shells well over 300 miles.
the Super Gun was caught in time but it was just a small Piece in a much larger project.
exact number for these Medium range guns is unknown but intelligence sources and reports have suggested that they have at least 4 that are known all within striking distance of a one of the main battle rallying points.
oh and as for the VX gas
we do know he was sold it beacuse the UN weapons insectors are curently looking for it now.
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Some of these links might be usefull.
God bless Google! :)
http://www.trinicenter.com/kwame/2002/Nov/
http://www.ahherald.com/readers_write/2002/021121_iraq_weapons.htm
http://www.sundayherald.com/27572
http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_090802_enemies.html
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Originally posted by fastson
Some of these links might be usefull.
God bless Google! :)
http://www.trinicenter.com/kwame/2002/Nov/
http://www.ahherald.com/readers_write/2002/021121_iraq_weapons.htm
http://www.sundayherald.com/27572
http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_090802_enemies.html
Thanks fastson... I am being lazy today ;)
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Originally posted by Ace
No firm decision yet by the UN but the tide is turning in favor of Bush.
On Feb. 5th Secretary of State Colin Powell is due to lay out more evidence.
Ace
Ok, Looking forward to seeing the new evidence.. I\'ve been curious ever since they announced they had new evidence.
Just like Christmas ;)
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Thanks fastson... I am being lazy today ;)
sorry buddy if i offended you .. i got a "bit" :rolleyes: carryed away :(.
its just that the Whole Situation Sucks Monkey Nuts and from the looks of things it could indeed get worse, with the portential of Terrorests either
[list=a]
- Getting Weapons of Mass destruction directly from Saddam
or
- Getting Weapons of Mass destruction from Iraqi compounds which have just been evacuated by iraqi forces.
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Originally posted by ooseven
sorry buddy if i offended you .. i got a "bit" :rolleyes: carryed away :(.
its just that the Whole Situation Sucks Monkey Nuts and from the looks of things it could indeed get worse, with the portential of Terrorests either
[list=a]
- Getting Weapons of Mass destruction directly from Saddam
or
- Getting Weapons of Mass destruction from Iraqi compounds which have just been evacuated by iraqi forces.
No offense taken ooseven - I am in a bad mood today anyway and knotters post pissed me off... damn Dutch, they are getting as bad as the French and the Germans. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
No offense taken ooseven - I am in a bad mood today anyway and knotters post pissed me off... damn Dutch, they are getting as bad as the French and the Germans. :rolleyes:
God at least you can count on us Brits to stand shoulder to shoulder with you.
I know I might seam like a raving anti-war mad man… but when the War dose start I will give my 100% support to our Brave men and Women (both US & UK) who are putting their life’s on the line for our Freedom.
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Originally posted by ooseven
God at least you can count on us Brits to stand shoulder to shoulder with you.
I know I might seam like a raving anti-war mad man… but when the War dose start I will give my 100% support to our Brave men and Women (both US & UK) who are putting their life’s on the line for our Freedom.
Unfortunately I think it will only be the UK and the US doing the fighting. Not that some other European countries are in rabid opposition to the war like Germany and France, but they don\'t have the logistics to send troops there (ie. Denmark, Poland, Hungary, etc).
A few troops from other countries such as Canada and Australia will most likely participate and unless Iraq uses any kind of chemical or bioligical weapon, the allied casualties should be minimal. If they do use any of those weapons - Scott Ritter and Susan Sarandon should be the first 2 deported from this country :D
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Susan Sarandon should be the first 2 deported from this country :D
i would Just settle for Susan Sarandon Being deported to a leper colony.
could we just do that now ? :D
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Originally posted by ooseven
sorry but but i seam to remember in saying everyone was to blame.
i mean here we have The Iraqi Dictatorship fashion range ..availbe if only you has 11% of the Worlds Oil reserves that is ;).
Weapons grade Anthrax From Mr Rundsfeld (US)
Nuclear Reactor by France
Special Forces training for Saddams personal body guards by the SAS (UK)
T45 Main Battle Tanks from the former USSR
Ak47’s by God Know’s who most likely the former USSR
VX Gas…isn’t that American ?
Mig’s 21 from the former USSR.
Intel during the Iran/Iraq war.. the CIA
Silkworm “anti ship” missiles from the Peoples republic of China
AAA guns mixture usually old from Europan countries (UK...France...Germany)
SCUD’s From North Korea
Iraqi Super Gun parts from UK
Sounds like all the superpowers in the world created the monster. Hell, we trained Bin Laden. That\'s why he\'s hard to get.