PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Rya on February 12, 2003, 02:09:37 PM
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My sister emailed this article to me. It is a long read, but it\'s really freaky that this goes on in America.
EVANGELIST UPSETS MUSLIMS
Jamie Manfuso, Herald Tribune, 2/4/04
http://www.newscoast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Site=SH&Date=20030204&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=302040387&Ref=AR&Profile=1004&SectionCat=NEWS0103
PORT CHARLOTTE -- An evangelist told a church
congregation
here Sunday that the holy book of Islam instructs
followers
to kill nonbelievers.
Moody Adams upset some area Muslims and left them
feeling
misunderstood after the all-day conference on
terrorism at
First Baptist Church.
Speaking to an estimated 1,600 people during four
sessions,
which included the church\'s two regular Sunday
services,
the 71-year-old Adams drew a picture of Islam in stark
contrast to the peace-loving image that the local
Muslim
community has encouraged since the Sept. 11 terrorist
attacks.
"I believe in being nice to the (Muslim) people," said
Adams, reached Monday at his Baton Rouge, La., home.
"I
hate this book (the Koran). I believe it is a barbaric
book. I believe it is the cause of these little
children
killing themselves, the Palestinians."
Perhaps 20 Muslims, as well as members of the local
Peace
Coalition, listened to Adams\' lecture Sunday. The
coalition
has opposed the push for war against Iraq.
Hasan Hammami, a Muslim from Port Charlotte, referred
to
the event as Islam-bashing day.
"It doesn\'t take much fear-mongering like this to whip
people up into a frenzy," Hammami said Monday. "I
don\'t
feel safer. I feel less safe than I felt the day
before
yesterday…"
Kathy Lyden, a Port Charlotte Muslim, said Adams and
others
take passages from the Koran out of their proper
historical
and social context.
She said the word "infidels" does not refer to
Christians
and Jews.
"It\'s referring to the Arab pagans that were
persecuting
the Muslims," she said.
Lyden said she was moved to tears at the conference.
"This is the same kind of stuff that sets people up
for
persecution," she said
MUSLIMS EXPLAIN PAIN CAUSED BY ISLAMOPHOBIC RHETORIC
The following is an excerpt from an email sent to CAIR
by a
Florida Muslim present at the Moody Adams anti-Islam
lectures:
"I listened to Moody Adams cry out to the hundreds of
Baptists in the audience, while holding up his
publication
that he put together, and saying this is the book
Muslims
believe in, and then following with, "Could this be a
doctrine of God or a doctrine of the devil?" "The
Devil!"
members shouted in response. He had whipped the
congregation into a frenzy. When he compared Muslims
with
the Trojans and said we would do as they did, sneak in
with
the Trojan Horse and conquer this country, I was
sickened.
I heard people responding with fervor, "Jesus save
us." He
was playing his audience so well…
As he continued his tirade and spoke of how Muslims
were
instructed to kill the Christians and the Jews and
that we
were out to convert their children, takeover their
financial institutions, and force everyone into
submission
to Islam. He counteracted anyone that might refute his
lies
by stating that the Quran even gives permission for
Muslims
to lie…
I asked him, "Do you believe Muslims should be put in
concentration camps?" He responded with saying mosques
around the country are recruiting terrorists. He would
not
say "No."
After his 2nd service, I remember witnessing people
hugging
each other and leaving in tears. I felt the desperate
need
to appeal to these mislead souls. With tears
streaming
down my face I went from person to person as they were
leaving and grabbing their hands, holding them and
saying,
"I don\'t worship the devil. Can\'t you see, my religion
is
not evil." Many looked at me in disbelief…
One does not need to imagine what Nazi propaganda
meetings
were like decades ago. We were able to see it first
hand on
Sunday.
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E-MAIL RECEIVED FROM A COLORADO MUSLIM:
"I went to a Lutheran Church in Highlands Ranch this
Sunday
because they had advertised a talk on Islam and I was
curious as too who was speaking. The speaker was an
Egyptian Coptic Priest who was fluent in Arabic. He
was
giving a talk about the Prophet Mohammed, and passed
out
some notes about the Prophet which I also received.
The
speech was full of slander about the Prophet, his
wives,
and his companions that I would not talk about my
enemies
in such a manner. After the speech I talked to the
Church
Pastor urging him to allow a Muslim to speak to his
parish
and offering my name and services."
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I am bored of living.So no way I am not bored to read this.
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People are incredibly stupid. Sad but true. Both those pastors should be smacked upside the head with a metal baseball bat.
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Baptists... :rolleyes:
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Religion... :rolleyes:
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Is it just me or is todays religion doing more harm than good?
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Religion has always been the focus of negative press. If they were to publish the many good things that are being done by churches then most people might think differently.
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Like what? The preachers new caddy?
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you dont think religion has done anything good for this world?
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Atheists... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Clowd
you dont think religion has done anything good for this world?
No.
Even the things I can quickly remember off the top of my head to be good are easily out numbered by the bad I see everyday.
Like today, some christians are at my door trying to sell religion. Do you know I was quite polite in telling them I was not interested 3 times. They still would STFU, so I told them I was now closing the door. Why does this prissy bitch and her friends continue to knock on my door?
So I called the cops. :)
*edit* funny thing is, they werent rude persay\'...but yet still rude if that makes any sense.
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hello what? I couldnt make it much past "Moody Adams upset some area Muslims and left them feeling ..... blah blah blah" that all I saw after that who cares we live in a society where everyone will never get along!
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Here\'s my take on Christianity and religion in general. IT SET US BACK 1K years. If the Crusades didn\'t happen, we\'d have colonies as far as the moons of Jupiter and we\'d prolly be just about ready to test our first star ship. But it happend, unfortunatley they wouldn\'t stop there. After they severely disrupted scientific progress in The Middle East, they had to clamp down on the few bright pepole in Europe. DO U KNOW HOW FAR THEY SET BACK MATHEMATICS AND SCIENCE IN GENERAL!?!?
I know the core of religion has "good" in mind, but it can be used for "bad" just as easily. Sure, people would say that "bad people" would use other means if religion - in the traditional sense - didn\'t exist. But to me, if religion didn\'t exist, that\'s one less tool for "evil". If you must hang on to your beleifs, you have to remember that these are based on very very old books. You should be open to the fact that some of the content in these books are outdated and irrelevant today.
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Originally posted by Avatarr
If you must hang on to your beleifs, you have to remember that these are based on very very old books. You should be open to the fact that some of the content in these books are outdated and irrelevant today.
If you studied the bible more I doubt you would feel the same way
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Originally posted by Clowd
If you studied the bible more I doubt you would feel the same way
I dont know about him, but I was forced to study the bible for most of my 1st-9th grade time.
What he said is true. If you were to look beyond your excessive(sorry, couldnt think of a better word at the time) religious attitude, you may see that as well.
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^^^^
IAWTP
My parents bought my brother and I a whole book stand full of bible story books. I had to go to sunday school from a very early age. And even with a moderate break through a good chunk of grade school, I actually won an award in the year just before high school. I got a bible book and a $20 voucher to dymocs :) . I know the bible all too well. That\'s whay I\'m saying what I\'m saying now.
Let\'s pick on one passage that\'s irrelevant today. From book, chapter and verse that I\'ve appropriately forgotten: "Wives, submit to your husband". See what I\'m takling about now? Eaqual rights for men and women is something that people presumably support and yet they cling to a vehemently sexist statement like that. That\'s just stupid.
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Not to mention the bibles views on homosexuality.
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Originally posted by luckee
No.
Even the things I can quickly remember off the top of my head to be good are easily out numbered by the bad I see everyday.
Like today, some christians are at my door trying to sell religion. Do you know I was quite polite in telling them I was not interested 3 times. They still would STFU, so I told them I was now closing the door. Why does this prissy bitch and her friends continue to knock on my door?
So I called the cops. :)
*edit* funny thing is, they werent rude persay\'...but yet still rude if that makes any sense.
Well, if that’s the case, then perhaps you should join the church and help turn things around. If you think the church is so bad, perhaps your efforts could help the church in becoming a more positive outreach.
There are thousands of people from around the world that would say they are associated with the church and that are going out of their way to help the needy and such. I for one have spent many weekends in the poverty level districts here in my city and have found that it truly is more blessed to give than it is to receive.
The church is full of sinners my friend, but I can’t think of a better place for them to be.
Oh, and those people at your door were more than likely Jehovas Witness, not “Christians” persay.
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Originally posted by Avatarr
^^^^
IAWTP
My parents bought my brother and I a whole book stand full of bible story books. I had to go to sunday school from a very early age. And even with a moderate break through a good chunk of grade school, I actually won an award in the year just before high school. I got a bible book and a $20 voucher to dymocs :) . I know the bible all too well. That\'s whay I\'m saying what I\'m saying now.
Let\'s pick on one passage that\'s irrelevant today. From book, chapter and verse that I\'ve appropriately forgotten: "Wives, submit to your husband". See what I\'m takling about now? Eaqual rights for men and women is something that people presumably support and yet they cling to a vehemently sexist statement like that. That\'s just stupid.
Its statements like that that led me to believe that you have never read the Bible in its entirety. The statement you made of “wives, submit to your husbands” is also succeeded by the statement “men, love your wives as Christ loved the church”. This statement is the true meat of those two considering that Christ died for the church, we as husbands should be willing to lay down our lives for our wives. This is not only in context to our physical life but our social and personal lives thus giving ourselves entirely to our wives. This then is requested of the wife to submit to the husband thus allowing a stronger bond as they both commit to one another.
Before you take one verse from the Bible and attempt to analyze it, try to become more knowledgeable of the other verses that pertain to the same topic.
Also, before I step down from my podium, did you know that no where in the Bible are woman commanded to love their husbands? Yet men are commanded to love their wives by laying their lives down for them. Interesting thought.
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Yay to the theological academic. Tell that to the women of our past. Tell that to wives of abusive men who use the single line to justify their actions. (oh, and I\'m purdy sure you\'d tell that to your wife, if you got one) Whatever rationalisation you put into this, you offer no comfort to those who have suffered because of this passage. It is not practical.
But while we\'re being academic, lets look at this from a more cynical perspective. Now let us assume that these husbands adopt your interpretation of self sacrifice. Yet the term self sacrifice is far too broad to determine any kind of specific action. In fact, self sacrifice could be interpreted as "disciplining your wife even if it hurts you to do so". The "request to the wives", is still to submit to their husbands. Do wives submit to that?
Further, the wording firmly places the authority in the hands of the husband. The husband is to decide what is in the best interests of the wife. In life or death situatoins, the wording is clear cut, but try to apply that to every day situatoins. What is in the best interests of the wife is still decided by the husband. The "request to the wives", is still to submit to their husbands.
If The Bible\'s message was simply that of mutual love and sacrifice, why didn\'t it set eaqual terms for both men and women?
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I won’t ask you to understand what you cannot. As I see it your view alone dictates a pessimistic approach on what the Bible reads. Until you have experienced what I have in the wonderful marriage I have with my wife and the fact that her and my own beliefs have led us to follow what the Bible says you will never know the joy that I have. Say what you will, but know this, what you have to say has been said before. And all those that would agree with you have one thing in common; they have never witnessed a marriage in which submission was the basis for unity. As both follow the truths found in the Bible, both will find harmony. I have found it with my wife. And I wouldn’t trade what we have with each other for the world.
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So when the academic persuit of testing conjecture doesn\'t suit, you switch to propaganda mode. Look sweetcheeks, its good that you\'ve settled into workable system, but let me be so bold as to say it is fake. One party is less of a human being because she is superceeded by the other. All for the fact that she is the female "component" of the relationship.
Not all who would agree with me haven\'t seen this sort of thing before. It is because they have seen this sort of thing that they agree.
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Originally posted by Avatarr
So when the academic persuit of testing conjecture doesn\'t suit, you switch to propaganda mode. Look sweetcheeks, its good that you\'ve settled into workable system, but let me be so bold as to say it is fake. One party is less of a human being because she is superceeded by the other. All for the fact that she is the female "component" of the relationship.
Not all who would agree with me haven\'t seen this sort of thing before. It is because they have seen this sort of thing that they agree.
I won’t ask you to understand what you cannot. As I see it your view alone dictates a pessimistic approach on what the Bible reads.
Sorry, it just seemed fitting to repeat myself in this. I would say more but I can see that you are bent on discrediting what has worked for me and my wife. I’m sorry if what I believe makes you so angry.
As I said before, what you have to say has been said before. Even today it holds no ground in what I will have for my household.
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I\'m sorry of my little speech seemed a bit firely to you. Since we have taken the extreme ends of this particular stick, I thought it fitting to match your rhetoric in the other direction. :) Rest assured, this little tiff is mostly academic for me. And unlike the me of the past, I would never dismiss anyone so hastily without hearing their entire story. Please, if you would indulge me......
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Originally posted by Avatarr
I\'m sorry of my little speech seemed a bit firely to you. Since we have taken the extreme ends of this particular stick, I thought it fitting to match your rhetoric in the other direction. :) Rest assured, this little tiff is mostly academic for me. And unlike the me of the past, I would never dismiss anyone so hastily without hearing their entire story. Please, if you would indulge me......
In this instance my friend there is a deeper subject to be had. The simple logistics of husbandry and the submission of a wife are found under the scope of a larger plan. The knowledge of ones place in the household is not enough. One must have faith and the understanding of Christ and the simple fact that he died to bring us salvation from the sin nature of humanity. I wish to expound on this but I see that you might only be prepared for an argument. Your heart is not right. When I was in your position in life I too had many qualms with the real basis of Christianity. I also claimed many fights and arguments. I learned however that I could not deter those that had made a real commitment to Christ. When the time is right you will understand all that I have said here. I count all that I have gained here on earth a loss If it were gained from outside the covering of the one true savior. My wife and I found each other under that same covering. She and I both made the conscience decision to follow the life we live today. Saying she is a mere puppet of mine simply contradicts your desire for equal rights as my wife decided of her own free will to marry me. She is no slave. She is free to do as she pleases. She does just that by submitting to me as I have given my life entirely to her. I do not punish her for things she does wrong. In fact I love on her the most during those time. Anger stirs up wrath, but a soft and gentle word turns away wrath. Learning this has brought my wife and I into some awesome conversations when either one of us makes a mistake or hurts one or the other. I hope that in some manner you can understand what I am saying. There is always going to be problems in every marriage. We are only human. But I will say that I love my wife and she loves me. And in the end my friend, that is all that counts.;)
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Please understand I had that "pleasurable" expereince of "knowing" Christ in my blind, pre-teen to early teen days. I understand that Christians belive in the inherent evil within mankind, ever since Adam disobayed His Mightlyness in The Garden of Eden. I understand that Christians belive His Mightyness, in His eternal love, sent His only son to take "serve the sentence" for humanity. (now there\'s a niec little story to tell hte kids) I bought it with my heart, I then gave it back for what many consider to be the truth.
From what I can remember, what counts in the end is your love and commitment to Christ, not each other. :P Your position on that is indicative of your deviatoin from "The Good Book". And it shows: What you are describing to me is a well balanced, modern relationship where both parties have EAQUAL importance. Submission is indeed the basis of your unity, but you\'re both submitting to each other (not just the wife to the husband). That\'s nice, cute and takes a bit of time to derive from the statement we\'re arguing about.
That statement is of course, this:
“wives, submit to your husbands” is also succeeded by the statement “men, love your wives as Christ loved the church”.
Let us say that you are applying this statement to your situation. And you have decided that to love your wife in the same way that Christ loved The Church, you need to submit to her as much as she does to you. And because of this, you therefore deem the statement to be fair to both men and women. But to successfully argue your case, you must apply it to every single situation! By simple common sense, you have to accept that the latter portion of the statement can be interpreted in different ways! Unlike the former part, which is a clear instruction for wives to submit to their husbands!
It would probably be easier for you to see this if you simply concentrate on symantics. I ask you to indulge me again.
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I just got back from the front lobby of my work place. I was called up front only to find my beautiful wife and my lovely daughter standing there with a red rose and a simple balloon that says, “we love you”. She had it specially made to say that considering that I have become a father and this is the first Valentines day my daughter will spend with me. God is so good. As for you Avy, I am no longer going to indulge you in this game you wish to play. Please accept my apologies for not continuing but as I said before, your heart is not in the right place for you to understand. But trust me, I will hold you in my prayers in hopes that God will soften your spirit to the truth.
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Originally posted by project86
Well, if that’s the case, then perhaps you should join the church and help turn things around. If you think the church is so bad, perhaps your efforts could help the church in becoming a more positive outreach.
There are thousands of people from around the world that would say they are associated with the church and that are going out of their way to help the needy and such. I for one have spent many weekends in the poverty level districts here in my city and have found that it truly is more blessed to give than it is to receive.
The church is full of sinners my friend, but I can’t think of a better place for them to be.
Oh, and those people at your door were more than likely Jehovas Witness, not “Christians” persay.
Like I told them..no thanx. I\'ll pass.
And yes, we have door to door christians peddling around here as well as the hova\'s for which they were not.
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Originally posted by luckee
Like I told them..no thanx. I\'ll pass.
And yes, we have door to door christians peddling around here as well as the hova\'s for which they were not.
So if you have no desire to help the church become better, then why do you ridicule it? It seems easy to sit back and point a finger at those that are doing the wrong things but getting off you butt to do something about it, well I guess that just takes too much effort eh?
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Anything that doesnt intrest me is too much effort. I ridicule b/c of the wrong, so be it, I am allowed my opinions. I dont need a church taking money from me when I need more of it anyway.
Once again, why would I want to get off my butt and do something about something I have no intrest in?
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Point taken. I am sorry if you felt I was bashing your opinion but I just wish some people would do something about the corruption within the church rather than just talk about it.
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I didnt feel you were bashing my opinion...no harm, no foul.
I think something should be done as well, but from within AND out of the church. It would certainly have to be some religious and some objective ppl in the organization to do it. Definitely not ppl like me who arent interested in organized religion since they would only be half assed anyway.
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Originally posted by project86
I just got back from the front lobby of my work place. I was called up front only to find my beautiful wife and my lovely daughter standing there with a red rose and a simple balloon that says, “we love you”. She had it specially made to say that considering that I have become a father and this is the first Valentines day my daughter will spend with me. God is so good. As for you Avy, I am no longer going to indulge you in this game you wish to play. Please accept my apologies for not continuing but as I said before, your heart is not in the right place for you to understand. But trust me, I will hold you in my prayers in hopes that God will soften your spirit to the truth.
My spirit was softened to your truth; I\'ve been where you are now. Fortunatley I was shown another brand of truth, Science. "Test everything, if it fails, try something else". Doesn\'t that seem more comforting to you than relying on blind faith?
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Now I know why religious discussion is banned from the other forums I visit.
All Christians are not bad. I\'ve done countless things to help out the elderly and less fortunate in my community (thanks largely to the church). Most would spend 100% of their weekends & summers for themselves but thank goodness everyone\'s different. :) Halleleujah!!!!!11111111
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O fcourse they arent. Just like all blacks dont steal, all hispanics arent lazy and dirty..etc..etc..
Every group religous or not has its bad apples.
I as well do things to help ppl, but not in the name aof a particular religion. :)
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Originally posted by Clowd
you dont think religion has done anything good for this world?
Take a look at the middle east. People are strapping bombs to themselves and calling themselves mytrs. In the middle ages, Protestants and Catholics have been slaughtering eachother and in parts of the world, still are. The Halocaust. Need I say more? Jews were slaughtered by Christians for their beliefs. In Egypt thousands of years ago, Hebrews were enslaved. People in the Crusades marched to their own deaths in search of the Holy Grail or whatever religious artifact they were searching for.
Good, yes they have done some good. They give something for people to believe in and they help in charities and give poor people hope. Thats all I see. IMO, religion has done more harm than good. Clowd, btw, I am Catholic so don\'t call me a heretic or anything. I\'m just not as religious as you.
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I said before religion is the reason for all the blood spilt on the Earth.
When I say religion has done good for this world I mean religion encourages people to be good. If you believe in the bible and God then you would have to follow God\'s laws in the bible. Do not committ adultery, do not steal, etc. If your atheist then its more like "Do what you want, your in the driver\'s seat". The bible sets a moral code for the world. And most religions tell their followers to follow that code. I am glad that they encourage people to study the bible and apply what it says to their life. You can\'t go wrong following the bible. It was inspired by God.
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Originally posted by Clowd
I said before religion is the reason for all the blood spilt on the Earth.
When I say religion has done good for this world I mean religion encourages people to be good. If you believe in the bible and God then you would have to follow God\'s laws in the bible. Do not committ adultery, do not steal, etc. If your atheist then its more like "Do what you want, your in the driver\'s seat". The bible sets a moral code for the world. And most religions tell their followers to follow that code. I am glad that they encourage people to study the bible and apply what it says to their life. You can\'t go wrong following the bible. It was inspired by God.
Ahh yes, but I am not so weak minded that I need a bible and "god" to live a good, decent life. I dont need someone or something to tell me how I should live when they are usually just a hypocrite anyway.
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There are religious people that I wouldn\'t want to walk down my street. There are bad religious people. There are good morale Athiests. I never said that people that believe in god are bad, I\'m just saying that billions of people don\'t have to die due to religion.
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Yeah, their are good believers, and bad.
Its something to believe, something to make you think that someone is in charge, someone watching you, someone taking care of you.
I myself am baptisted christian, but I dont go to church (once a month maybe, but always on Christmas). I dont really believe most of this stuff.
Where is God now when we need him most in the world?
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I\'m Catholic and I doubt a lot of the teachings, doubting the stories and everything. I still go to church on sundays and holidays and play trumpet in the music.
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Have you ever been to band camp?
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Whoa...I never meant for this thing to become a religious discussion. I just wanted to show you all how extreme some people get in "protecting" this country and that I hope none of you think the same way as the preacher in the article does.
When I say religion has done good for this world I mean religion encourages people to be good.
You\'re right, religion encourages people to do good. However, I strongly believe that it\'s early parental guidance that makes people live good lives as well. It\'s not just religion that encourages good morals.
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Originally posted by Spudz
Have you ever been to band camp?
Yes :( I feel like the biggest nerd today. BTW, I do hate marching band with a passion and I\'m glad I don\'t have to do it for a long ass time.
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Originally posted by luckee
Ahh yes, but I am not so weak minded that I need a bible and "god" to live a good, decent life. I dont need someone or something to tell me how I should live when they are usually just a hypocrite anyway.
I would have to say that as a Christian, I am not so weak minded that I rely on the Bible and God to be a “good” person. The Bible simply put says “no one can come to the Father (God) except thru me (Jesus)”. Good works will not get me to heaven; thus bad deeds will not always send me to hell. Accepting Jesus as your personal savior is all one must do to become saved and enter into Heaven. The next step in any new Christians life is to become more knowledgeable of the Word and to allow the Holy Spirit to convict us of things that are not of God. We need to abstain from the things that might injure our walk with Christ. I don’t think that living this kind of lifestyle is for anybody weak in mind but for those that are, God will strengthen.
*steps down from pulpit*
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Yea, but even you know how often what I suggested is the scenario. It wasnt a shot at you personally.
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I think the Bible isn\'t religious truth. I think it was origionally written as a bunch of stories to help guide you through life, not to be believed. Just like the Asops Fables. They try and teach you something. Thats probably what the bible was origionally written for, not to be taken literally.
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Originally posted by Titan
I think the Bible isn\'t religious truth. I think it was origionally written as a bunch of stories to help guide you through life, not to be believed. Just like the Asops Fables. They try and teach you something. Thats probably what the bible was origionally written for, not to be taken literally.
No offense man but those words alone tell me that you have never read thru the Bible. The stories have been proven true by more historians and continue to be proven true even to this day. The places, people and events have not only been recorded in the Bible but in other manuscripts as well. The Bible is a collection of these manuscripts. Just do a little research on the book and you’ll see what I am talking about.
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sorry guy, i dont believe that anything in the bible is "proved true"
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Originally posted by LUKE
sorry guy, i dont believe that anything in the bible is "proved true"
We are all entitled an opinion. I have my beliefs, others have there own. In the end it makes for an interesting world.;)