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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: ooseven on February 13, 2003, 01:33:17 AM
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The mayor of New York is calling for smoking to be banned in every bar and restaurant in the city.
Michael Bloomberg is expected to ask the city council later on Monday to consider the new measures, saying they are necessary to protect worker
Whats your views on it ?
Discuss.....
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I love these measures. Perhaps for smokers that\'s a sh¡t but for no-smokers, like me, that\'s a heaven. I\'m pissed off every time I eat in a restaurant where you cannot see the people 2 metres ahead due to the smoke. That\'s a shame. They\'re not only killing themselves, but we too.
I agree with NY.
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Being a non smoker myself it can only be a good thing.
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I smoked for about ten years and was up to about 1.5 to 2 packs a day. I was at my highest cigarette use when I was on third shift at an automotive facility (A Ford plant).
I have been free of smoking since I got married due to the fact that I did not want my wife to have to be around the smoke as everyone knows second hand smoke is very bad for ones health. I have not regretted this choice from day one.
I stand behind these rulings because I care for those around me and care for my own health as well. If people want to smoke, go outside and do it or go home and do it. But when it comes to public restaurants and malls and places such as these, keep the smoke out.
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I agree 100%, they should just get rid of smoking all together. But wait, the government would lose money off of all of the stupid people they got addicted to it.
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I think it\'s another attempt at demonizing smokers.
I don\'t smoke cigs, but I do like a fine cigar once in awhile. :thepimp: I also don\'t enjoy my dinner with the smell of cigs in the air . . . BUT it\'s MY choice whether I want to walk into a business that allows smoking on its premises. It is also the choice of the workers there if they want to work in an environment that has smoking customers.
Smoking cigs is still a legal activity. Until the government wants to give up the taxes it gets from every tobacco product sold, leave business owners alone who choose to have a business that allows smoking.
Not only that, what kind of atmosphere is a pool hall without the smell of cigars?
Ace
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Ace, if you desire is to smell the smoke, you\'re right. But what to do with the people who don\'t want? These measures are the response to those desires.
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I agree, but businesses should have the choice in what customers they want to appeal to.
As a customer, I have the right to walk to the next restaurant to eat in a smoke free environment.
Ace
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Perhaps in the area reserved for smokers, don\'t you think?
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I hate the fact that when I go out to a bar I come home smelling like I smoked 40 packs of cigs. In Erie county, NY where Buffalo is, smoking is prohibited in places of business, and restaurants where there is no designated smoking area.
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I think the free market will (should) decide if a restaurant or bar owner wants to have a smoke free environment at their business.
Ace
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I agree Ace, this is another case of "government" trying to determine what is best for everyone. I smoke and to not smoke in a bar is ridiculous. It should be the right of the owners to determine whether they want to be smoke free or not.
Smoking is a nasty habit, one I wish I never would have started. That being said, I don\'t smoke in my house or my car and definitely don\'t want my child near smoke, but to declare no smoking in every bar and restaurant is down right intrusive and totalitarian.
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Doesn\'t really concern me, but I do agree that customers should have the ability to choose. I don\'t smoke and \'thus I select a spot from the non-smoking -section if I happen to visit a restaurant. No problems from smoke what-so-ever. Bars, on the other hand, are filthy places anyway - with or without smokes.
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Smoking is a self destructive, disgusting, wasteful habit that damages the health of the smoker, and other people around him/her. Therefore, I think it\'s ok for us to ban smoking in public places and treat smokers as modern lepers. Some of them apparently need a little more incentive to quit, since they\'re not smart enough to do it on their own accord. California has banned smoking in all bars and restaurants, and my quality of life most definitely improved after that happened. I don\'t give a damn how smokers feel about it.
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No smoking here in FL. Just passed this year. I haven\'t been to any bars yet though late at night to even notice the difference.
I really don\'t care either way. I never go out to eat with anyone who smokes or anything so I\'ve never really had to deal with it, but I know I\'d have a tough time eating if I was right next to a smoker table.
Usually the smoker tables were far enough away though that it didn\'t annoy me.
In a bar setting though I don\'t mind the smoke. I just hate smelling one cigarette. Smelling a bunch in a bar for some reason is different.
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Of course you don\'t.
Pick something you like to do now that is legal, and tell me how you would like some busy body do gooders telling you it\'s not safe and it must be banned.
Tobacco is legal!!!!!!
Ace
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"My quality of life most definitely improved", yeah I believe that one. Anyway, this is another case of big brother telling us what we can and can\'t do.
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May I suggest that as a smoker, you don\'t understand what it\'s like for non smokers? Hell yes my quality of life improved. Cigarette smoke is pretty awful stuff.
I will acknowlege that as a non-smoker, I don\'t know what it\'s like for smokers. The difference is they have a choice. They can quit. :)
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Originally posted by Ace
Tobacco is legal!!!!!!
Only because of the money and lobbying power of the tobacco industry.
It is the only habbit I can think of that can cause health problems to everyone around you.
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That is my point. Until those who make the laws want to grow a backbone and outlaw the stuff, then we should not be telling business owners how to run their businessesin this case.
Ace
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Originally posted by Coredweller
May I suggest that as a smoker, you don\'t understand what it\'s like for non smokers? Hell yes my quality of life improved. Cigarette smoke is pretty awful stuff.
I will acknowlege that as a non-smoker, I don\'t know what it\'s like for smokers. The difference is they have a choice. They can quit. :)
I was a non smoker once so I do understand. If you have ever smoked you would know cocaine is easier to quit than smoking.
Regardless, smoking is a nasty habit and its addiction isn\'t/wasn\'t advertised enough when I started. Granted I will quit some day and no I won\'t be suing any tobacco companies, but to infringe on my rights as a smoker is wrong. In CA, don\'t they have "smoking clubs" now? I thought I read that somwhere.
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Problem is you\'ll get no sympathy from 75% of the people out there who couldn\'t care less about smoking.
There is absolutely no reason to smoke now. We have known since before I was born that smoking is very bad for you and highly addictive, so why start?
And why not quit?
I find it extremely hard to believe that it is that hard to quit smoking. You hear about people who have something tragic in their life happening and from that day forward they stop smoking. Well why did it take something tragic to happen?
Just freaking stop.
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Easier said than done Vid... and btw I am not looking for sympathy either. Its just common knowledge that smoking is one of the hardest habits to kick.
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Basically, my views on it are that smoking should be banned from restaurants, but not from bars. Banning it from bars is rediculous, it\'s really a part of the atmosphere there.
But remember, the focus of these laws aren\'t to protect the people dining there, or anything like that. It\'s to protect the workers. They are the ones who could be there all day, inhaling the smoke, and it would be potentially very harmful to them.
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How do you eruos feel? Are we progressive in our approach to cigarettes? It is always portrayed that Euros smoke a lot more than we americans do.
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sounds good to me, i hate coming home from a pub or whatever, and smelling like cigerette smoke the next morning, esp when your round a mates house, and have no clean clothes
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I don\'t like smoking and never have. Funnily enough from midnight tonight tobacco advertising will be banned completely in the UK. That includes all billboards and magazines.
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I thought it was bullshit when CA did it..I think its BS that Chicago wants to do it, I think its BS that FL did it, and I think its BS that NY did it.
Business owners should have the right to decide whether or not they will allow smoking on the premises. Its not that wild of an idea.....
Non-smokers have the right to breath freely as do smokers have the right to smoke. If a nonsmoker doesnt like the fact he cant smoke in a particular place, goto a place that they can. Same for the nonsmoker, dont want to goto the bar or club and come home smelling like a freshly put out butt, reall damn simple, dont goto said bar or club anymore and frequent the ones that support no smoking.
PS..I dont smoke..cigs anyway...
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Originally posted by luckee
I thought it was bullshit when CA did it..I think its BS that Chicago wants to do it, I think its BS that FL did it, and I think its BS that NY did it.
Business owners should have the right to decide whether or not they will allow smoking on the premises. Its not that wild of an idea.....
Non-smokers have the right to breath freely as do smokers have the right to smoke. If a nonsmoker doesnt like the fact he cant smoke in a particular place, goto a place that they can. Same for the nonsmoker, dont want to goto the bar or club and come home smelling like a freshly put out butt, reall damn simple, dont goto said bar or club anymore and frequent the ones that support no smoking.
PS..I dont smoke..cigs anyway...
What he said!
Ace
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also i thnk its good, cos most peep say they smoke more when out, up pubs etc, as there is so much smoke in the room etc, so should make it easier to quit for peep who wanna
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I have grown up in a family of smokers. Both my parents do and almost all my relatives do. Guess what ? I don\'t smoke. I don\'t agree with smoking, but I\'ll be damned if I am goin\' to support a new rule that says people can\'t smoke at all in a bar and what not. It should be left up to the owner of the establishment.
People have minds. We can make choices. I make a choice everytime I go in a restruant to sit in the "no smoking" section. Owners of establishments can make choices on what they want to do. We don\'t need the goverment making rules for every little thing we do , while at the same time taking money from us (...let\'s see, we\'ll do everything but BAN smoking...that way we can still get paid!) . The only time I think people shouldn\'t be allowed to smoke is when they are in the grocery store / supermarket / wal-mart type establishment and let\'s face it, that\'s just common sense.
P.S - They are trying to pass the same law in two cities that I live next to (work in one of \'em).
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FUnny thing is, not many places follow the rule. I know it hasnt happend in florida yet and in CA almost every place I went, ppl were smoking indoors. Most business\' just ignore the law and pay the stupid fine.
Only time will tell to see just how serious they are about playing big brother/little sister.
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Hell, I say make it illegal everywhere.
What good is it doing us? Besides killing people off, destroying lifes, eventually polluting, etc.
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1) They have now absolutely proven that second-hand smoke is harmfull, not only long term, but short term, causing pulmonary and cardiac cells to function at a lower level while exposed.
2) It\'s fine to say that owners have a right to run any kind of establishment, but then they\'re discriminating not only against non-smokers, but against the waitresses and bartenders who would NOT be able to find jobs away from smoky bars.
3) They\'re not taking away your right to smoke (yet... that\'s probably decades away), but they\'re saying that your right to smoke interferes with MANY other peoples right not to, and so you\'ll have to take it outside.... where the others won\'t be affected.
Remeber... every rule and law in civilized society is based on one principal, and if everyone followed it, we would all be a lot better off.
You have the right to do almost anything you want, but your rights end where another individual\'s (or society\'s) rights begin.
*edit*
PS - Since Ottawa went smoke-free last year, the night life here has improved 100%, at first, there was a drop in night-goers, but now it\'s as busy as before (smoker\'s simply going outside), and I don\'t have to quarantine and dry-clean my shirt, pants, and jacket every time I go out. I for one love the improvement.
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Originally posted by FatalXception
1) They have now absolutely proven that second-hand smoke is harmfull, not only long term, but short term, causing pulmonary and cardiac cells to function at a lower level while exposed.
2) It\'s fine to say that owners have a right to run any kind of establishment, but then they\'re discriminating not only against non-smokers, but against the waitresses and bartenders who would NOT be able to find jobs away from smoky bars.
3) They\'re not taking away your right to smoke (yet... that\'s probably decades away), but they\'re saying that your right to smoke interferes with MANY other peoples right not to, and so you\'ll have to take it outside.... where the others won\'t be affected.
Remeber... every rule and law in civilized society is based on one principal, and if everyone followed it, we would all be a lot better off.
You have the right to do almost anything you want, but your rights end where another individual\'s (or society\'s) rights begin.
*edit*
PS - Since Ottawa went smoke-free last year, the night life here has improved 100%, at first, there was a drop in night-goers, but now it\'s as busy as before (smoker\'s simply going outside), and I don\'t have to quarantine and dry-clean my shirt, pants, and jacket every time I go out. I for one love the improvement.
1] Everyone should stop driving cars then. That is far more dangerous on any scale vs. 2nd hand smoke.
2] How is that discrimination when being anti-smoke isnt?
3] They are taking the smokers rights to smoke anywhere anyway though. So a technicality :)
You have the right to do almost anything you want, but your rights end where another individual\'s (or society\'s) rights begin.
Its a terrible cycle that will never end.
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Originally posted by luckee
1] Everyone should stop driving cars then. That is far more dangerous on any scale vs. 2nd hand smoke.
2] How is that discrimination when being anti-smoke isnt?
3] They are taking the smokers rights to smoke anywhere anyway though. So a technicality :)
You have the right to do almost anything you want, but your rights end where another individual\'s (or society\'s) rights begin.
Its a terrible cycle that will never end.
1) Cars are something that the whole world economy at this time relies on, not something people rely on on a personal scale, and do for personal reasons. Driving isn\'t guaranteed to cause you harm, either (it can, of course, but that\'s a risk, not a given).
2) Because descrimination against smokers indoors isn\'t discrimination, since they have the choice to go outside/to their car/to their home.
When the bars were smokey in Ottawa:
Non-smokers had the choice of breathing smoke or staying home.
Non smokers could smoke anywhere.
With non-smoking bars:
Non smokers can go to bars, or stay home.
Smokers can goto bars and smoke outside, or stay home.
Seems to me the choice is obvious.
3) See above.
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sigh... I hate the fact that my father smokes, especially since there is a history of cancer in the family. I just know he\'s gonna get it cause he must do 1-2 packs a day. I understand its addictive and some people didn\'t know any better, but I swear every person who\'s quit said it was worth it, he just won\'t put forth the effort.
Some people would give their life to learn a lesson.
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Originally posted by FatalXception
1) Cars are something that the whole world economy at this time relies on, not something people rely on on a personal scale, and do for personal reasons. Driving isn\'t guaranteed to cause you harm, either (it can, of course, but that\'s a risk, not a given).
2) Because descrimination against smokers indoors isn\'t discrimination, since they have the choice to go outside/to their car/to their home.
When the bars were smokey in Ottawa:
Non-smokers had the choice of breathing smoke or staying home.
Non smokers could smoke anywhere.
With non-smoking bars:
Non smokers can go to bars, or stay home.
Smokers can goto bars and smoke outside, or stay home.
Seems to me the choice is obvious.
3) See above.
1] I wasnt talking about the potential danger of an accident, I was talking about the exhaust and C02 released.
2]It isnt discrimination either way is my point. Non-smokers have choices too.
We have choices in life. Its not like there werent any non-smoking places b4 these bans started happening. And yes, there were plenty of them. You dont like smoke that much, dont go out. I dont care, I know how to wash clothes and I know how to avoid smokey establishments. :)
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I just have a question luckee.
Why would you smoke?
Just answer it. Why?
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Why would I? I dont know..I dont smoke...
Why would they...maybe b/c they like it. Maybe b/c it relaxes them. Maybe some like the flavor of certain brands.
Hmm, here is a thought, for the same reason anyone likes anything.