PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Ace on February 14, 2003, 03:44:02 AM
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Someone on another board I visit posted this article. Suck it all in because it speaks the truth.
Tony Parsons: Shame on You American-Hating Liberals, Daily Mirror: September 11, 2002
One year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting: the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol Pot\'s Mountain of Skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps.
An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world could agree on one thing - nobody deserves this fate. Surely there could be consensus: The victims were truly innocent, the perpetrators truly evil.
But to the world\'s eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America\'s comeuppance. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year. There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country; too loud, too rich, too full of themselves, and so much happier than
Europeans - but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me. More than that, it turns my stomach.
America is this country\'s greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood. A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children - not just Americans, but from dozens of countries, were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them?
What touched the heart about those who died in the Twin Towers and on the planes, was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody\'s son and somebody\'s daughter, husbands, wives, and children, some unborn.
And these people brought it on themselves? Their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter?
These days you don\'t have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan. The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world\'s only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission.
The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11.
Remember, remember -
Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, I love you, before they were burned alive.
Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers.
Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive.
Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum.
Remember, remember -
And realize that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the way it could have.
So a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked without a trial in Camp X-ray? Pass the Kleenex...
So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti.
AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn\'t is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq -that\'s what a democracy is for. How many in the Islamic world will have a minute\'s silence for the slaughtered innocents of
9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination?
When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street.
America watched all of that and didn\'t push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a war on terrorism. A real war.
The fundamentalist dudes are talking about opening the gates of hell, if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn\'t believe.
The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever strode the face of the earth. The campaign in Afghanistan may have been less than perfect and the planned war on Iraq may be misconceived. But don\'t blame America for not bringing peace and light to these wretched countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East, or in the Muslim world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand - assuming you haven\'t had any chopped off for minor shoplifting.
I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush\'s poodle. But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh. Above all, America is hated because it is what every country wants to be rich, free, strong, open, optimistic. Not ground down by the past, or religion, or some caste system. America is the best friend this country ever had and we should start remembering that.
Or do you really think the USA is the root of all evil? Tell it to the loved ones of the men and women who leaped to their death from the burning towers.
Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands died on one of the hijacked planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing skyscraper.
And tell it to the hundreds of young widows whose husbands worked for the New York Fire Department.
To our shame, George Bush gets a worse press than Saddam Hussein. Once we were told that Saddam gassed the Kurds, tortured his own people and set up rape-camps in Kuwait. Now we are told he likes Quality Street. Save me the orange center, Oh Mighty One!
Remember, remember, September 11 - One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America.
No, do more than remember. Never forget.
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This is a bit stoopid. My general impression of this is "give the US permission to do whatever the hell it likes, because of S11". Excuse me for not agreeing. The article says that everyone was affected by S11 and it is true in the most literal sense. This is precisely why the US shouldn\'t be given free reign to do whatever the hell it wants to do. That\'s what the terrorists were doing, the world shouldn\'t stoop to their level by allowing a single nation to act uniatilary without the support of the international community.
The war on terror should be the responsbility of the United Nations, not a single country. As such, all countries should act under the United Nations, not just by themselves.
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We are the UN.
Ace
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Thats exactly the kind of talk that turns people off. The United States is not the United Nations. The United States is part of the United Nations, not the other way arround. You\'d be surprised how sensitive some people can be about this, so don\'t make light of it.
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I\'m not making light of it. It appears we have found out who our true allies are in this situation. The UN appears not to even give two craps about it\'s own resolutions.
Ace
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Can\'t be bothered to read it. :o
:p
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Originally posted by Samwise
Can\'t be bothered to read it. :o
:p
I\'ll help you out.
Remember, remember, September 11 - One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America.
I hate reading long articles on my monitor as well.
Ace
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Originally posted by Samwise
Can\'t be bothered to read it. :o
:p
its a letter from a Pro-War "reader"
to a Anti-war paper.
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Over 60% of americans now agree to go to war.
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I read it and I agree with it….fully!
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heh, typical reaction...
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Originally posted by videoholic
Over 60% of americans now agree to go to war.
Who cares about America\'s opinion. We have to wait for France, Germany and Belgium to give us the OK. :rolleyes:
Ace
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Originally posted by videoholic
Over 60% of americans now agree to go to war.
The war may or may not be right..but with,
70% of Brits are Against
and with the Scottish Elections in March.. looks like Hapless Scottish New Labour will be out on their @rse.
WOOT :D
New Labour
Failed on Health
Failed on Transport
Failed on Crime
Failed on Cutting down sleze
Failed on cutting jobless figures
:laughing: Roll on March :laughing:
:laughing: New Labour membership is falling day by day:laughing:
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Originally posted by Avatarr
heh, typical reaction...
Thanks!
Better to stand for the rights of a free people than to lay prostrate before a tyrannical dictator.
;)
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If you wanna depose a dictator, there\'s a cummunist leader in North Korea that adopts Stalinist Communism, mis-using international aide and starving his people to bolster his armed forces.
If u want Iraq\'s oil, at least bloody wait for the Security Council of the United Nations. (they should add "of Earth" at the end of that as a reminder to some people)
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Saying we are going into Iraq for just oil is a very simplistic way of looking at the whole situation. If we only wanted oil, we could have captured all the oil fields in the middle east a long time ago and have been done with it.
Ace
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Great Article Ace... Ya know I am surprised Avatarr isn\'t over in Iraq strapping himself to a building right now.
The one thing that really hits home in that article is the fact that other countries are jealous of the US. Yes, I agree, the US is the UN. We do most of the work (supplying manpower) and pay the largest amount in dues AND give the UN a free building in NY. Some Europeans are jealous and ungrateful the sacrifices previous generations made to secure what freedom they have today. I believe some are also jealous (ie. France) that they no longer are relevant in the worlds political arena other than sitting on the UN Security Council and holding a veto.
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Originally posted by Avatarr
If you wanna depose a dictator, there\'s a cummunist leader in North Korea that adopts Stalinist Communism, mis-using international aide and starving his people to bolster his armed forces.
If u want Iraq\'s oil, at least bloody wait for the Security Council of the United Nations. (they should add "of Earth" at the end of that as a reminder to some people)
At this present time North Korea has not aided in the criminal acts of terrorism towards the States. That might be why they are not first in line for a swift butt kickin’. But mind you, they are on the list.
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ACE Anti-Americanism is against the US government not the US citizens.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Great Article Ace... Ya know I am surprised Avatarr isn\'t over in Iraq strapping himself to a building right now.
The one thing that really hits home in that article is the fact that other countries are jealous of the US. Yes, I agree, the US is the UN. We do most of the work (supplying manpower) and pay the largest amount in dues AND give the UN a free building in NY. Some Europeans are jealous and ungrateful the sacrifices previous generations made to secure what freedom they have today. I believe some are also jealous (ie. France) that they no longer are relevant in the worlds political arena other than sitting on the UN Security Council and holding a veto.
For the record, I don\'t like Saddam Hussein as much as the next person. I support action that would depose him and restore true demoracy in Iraq. My tiff is with the arrogant attitude that you so blatantly display. It doesn\'t matter how strong one country can be. In a democratic system, all the parties involved should be heard. I see the UN as the "senate of Earth" (to put it in the context of StarWars). Unilateral action on the part of the US is a step back in building a more democratic Earth.
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Originally posted by project86
At this present time North Korea has not aided in the criminal acts of terrorism towards the States. That might be why they are not first in line for a swift butt kickin’. But mind you, they are on the list.
I thought the great angel of justice was fighting terrorism on behalf of everyone else....
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I am going to take a stand against Germany and France. I\'m no longer going to eat croissants and I am going to light my car on fire.
i know it\'s extreme, but it must be done. I\'m going to miss the bread.
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Originally posted by Avatarr
heh, typical reaction...
heh, typical reaction...
oh yeah, F*CK FRANCE, F*CK GERMANY, AND F*CK RUUSIA AND CHINA TOO!
And f*ck you brits who forget who pulled your asses out of WWII. And F*CK you "neutral" countries who made money from the NAZIS during WWII, and now call us warmongerers.
Europe= parking lot
middle east= parking lot
russia= cold parking lot
I\'m sick to death of being afraid of a smallpox bomb, or a dirty bomb. When they find a sleeper cell in your town, will you say, "you\'re just persecuting them \'cos they\'re middle-eastern... stop the hate..."?
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Originally posted by CHIZZY
And f*ck you brits who forget who pulled your asses out of WWII.
F*ck the Brits ?
well thats nice talk to your biggest Allies :(
Remember that 70% is against a Pre-emptive strike with out a Second rulling from the UN (which happens to be my opinion too)..
;)
:p :clown:
oh and P.S.
us brits have not only the Sexy Americans but the Superb Russians for the Help in WW2
:D
/me gets naked and thanks a random American And Russian in his very speciall way :D.
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Originally posted by ooseven
/me gets naked and thanks a random American And Russian in his very speciall way :D.
We\'re getting used to our friends giving to us in the ass.
Ace
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Originally posted by Ace
We\'re getting used to our friends giving to us in the ass.
Ace
How can they do that if they\'re all a bunch of pussies?:D
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Originally posted by Ace
We\'re getting used to our friends giving to us in the ass.
Ace
Don\'t worry Ace ...were done trying to shaft you at every turn...now we are the best of buds.
Mr Blair Send UK\'s Fine\'st to STAND by our US Buddys and to give them Damn Iraqis a Good old taste of British SPUNK !
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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http://www.apfsds-solo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/time_to_bomb.swf
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:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
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Originally posted by ooseven
F*ck the Brits ?
well thats nice talk to your biggest Allies :(
I was only referring to the brits who are calling USA warmongers...warmongerers....warmongerererererers.
you know, the sign-holders and such. ;)
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Originally posted by CHIZZY
heh, typical reaction...
oh yeah, F*CK FRANCE, F*CK GERMANY, AND F*CK RUUSIA AND CHINA TOO!
And f*ck you brits who forget who pulled your asses out of WWII. And F*CK you "neutral" countries who made money from the NAZIS during WWII, and now call us warmongerers.
Europe= parking lot
middle east= parking lot
russia= cold parking lot
I\'m sick to death of being afraid of a smallpox bomb, or a dirty bomb. When they find a sleeper cell in your town, will you say, "you\'re just persecuting them \'cos they\'re middle-eastern... stop the hate..."?
No you kitty killer, I\'m saying what I\'m saying so I won\'t have to be scared of the same shit you\'re talking about - only the threat is coming from the US. That\'s why this action against Iraq needs to be supported by the international community. It means the US is acting by the dictates of the international community rather than its own. If the US isn\'t confined to the will of the international community, we\'d have a monster in our hands.
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Originally posted by Avatarr
No you kitty killer, I\'m saying what I\'m saying so I won\'t have to be scared of the same shit you\'re talking about - only the threat is coming from the US. That\'s why this action against Iraq needs to be supported by the international community. It means the US is acting by the dictates of the international community rather than its own. If the US isn\'t confined to the will of the international community, we\'d have a monster in our hands.
Uh confined to the will of the international community?? What gives them the right to dictate what we do?
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I\'m not trying to say that domestic stuff should be dictated by other countries. That just isn\'t right. But when it comes to stuff that will direclty affect other countries, you\'d think that a nation that is supposedly built on democracy, would give these other countries a fair hearing. Nevermind respect the authority of the international community.
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A fair hearing?????
How many resolutions will it take to prove that the UN is a joke?
Ace
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Originally posted by videoholic
http://www.apfsds-solo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/time_to_bomb.swf
:laughing:
That is superb!:D
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Originally posted by Ace
A fair hearing?????
How many resolutions will it take to prove that the UN is a joke?
Ace
another 2 duds should just about do it.
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Originally posted by Avatarr
For the record, I don\'t like Saddam Hussein as much as the next person. I support action that would depose him and restore true demoracy in Iraq. My tiff is with the arrogant attitude that you so blatantly display. It doesn\'t matter how strong one country can be. In a democratic system, all the parties involved should be heard. I see the UN as the "senate of Earth" (to put it in the context of StarWars). Unilateral action on the part of the US is a step back in building a more democratic Earth.
I agree with the article on some parts. Yes other countries are jealous.
Jealousy will turn to hate. That\'s it. Yeah other coutries hate the US because it\'s rich, powerful, controls the UN. What you gonna do? It\'s not like the US is going to give up all the power and share it with other countries. Unless that happens, Anti-Americanism will live on. The UN isn\'t a joke, they make it a joke. I just read an article that Blix said there are no signs of weapons. The UN knows, yet US will do anything in its power to prove it wrong, the UN will get together and build some new resolution and start over. It\'s only a joke to the people that want a war. If there wasn\'t a UN, there would be a bunch of wars every year, countries attacking others for no reason. The UN works, but it\'s some of the governments within the UN that make it seem like a joke.
As for France, Germany, and Belgium stand on this. I hope they continue with it. The US joined the UN b/c it agreed with all the regulations and agreed that whatever decision that could affect the world, was going to be agreed upon by everyone.
Every country is working for themselves. If France is holding up the war b/c of its own interest, then fine, let it, who doesnt? The US is, they\'re not fighting a war to rid the world of terrorism, they\'re fighting the war to rid the US of terrorism.
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Good God whoever wrote that is a total jackass. You know what sickens me? When someone questions my morals, what I felt about those attacks, and everything else around that entire situation, it pisses me off like nothing else. If I came face to face with this person right now, he had better hope I\'m the one who is able to show restraint, because I likely would not hesitate to smack him right up side that fat head of his.
Tell me Ace, how many people did you know, personally, that died in the attacks on 9/11? I knew 2. In addition, I knew many many more that were working within blocks of the World Trade Center on that day. My entire family lives in New York City, and I am down there all the time.
On September 11th, I was crushed, scarred, and quite frankly, I didn\'t know what to do. I would be surprised if any of you felt that moment in the way I did. I was fearing for the lives of many people I know personally, including three who happened to work in the towers. Two of them died. To even suggest that because of my politics I am disrespecting them is an insult to them, an insult to me, an insult to everyone who died that day, and a statement of your own ignorance of the situation.
Could we have retaliated more strongly? Yes. But how is it in the spirit of those who died to go across the world and kill more innocent people? The people I knew who died wouldn\'t have wanted that, and I wouldn\'t either. The message we get from this should be one of the importance of peace, not the necessity of war.
As much as you conservatives insist on turning this horrible event into some nationalistic crusade, I refuse to take it that way. This was not a crime against the United States in particular. This was a crime against humanity. Why commit another one to even it out? It makes no sense, and it is not what those who died on September 11th would want from us. At least it\'s not what the ones I knew would have wanted.
And you want to make this into some giant patriotic symbol? Fine, go ahead. I think it is blatantly unamerican to expect someone to change their beliefs and views based on an event like this. I am not going to let something like this change the way I look at this country, this world, or the way it should ideally be. I\'m not going to drop my morals and goals for reasons of pety revenge. America is stronger and more sensible than that.
The way to honor those who died is not to kill more people. It is to move as far as we can towards world peace. Right now, we are only moving away from it.
Whoever wrote this sickens me. Whoever thinks like this sickens me. And right now Ace, you too sicken me.
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You\'re are right. Im sorry about your loss. I hope I don\'t sicken you. I agree with everything you said. You\'re right, innocent americans died, but that doesn\'t mean that we should go and add more innocent deaths to an already high number.
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shockwaves,
While I am sorry for your losses, I do not understand why you want to attack me.
I think the article makes some good points. Sometime you need war to have peace. I for one do not want to become one of the fallen because my country did not have the backbone to stand up and protect it\'s citizens.
I am tired, sick and tired of all the America bashing. I\'m tired of it from abroad and I am tired of it from right here in my own country. If I make you sick because I am a proud American, then so be it.
Ace
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Originally posted by Ace
shockwaves,
While I am sorry for your losses, I do not understand why you want to attack me.
I think the article makes some good points. Sometime you need war to have peace. I for one do not want to become one of the fallen because my country did not have the backbone to stand up and protect it\'s citizens.
I am tired, sick and tired of all the America bashing. I\'m tired of it from abroad and I am tired of it from right here in my own country. If I make you sick because I am a proud American, then so be it.
Ace
It\'s nothing personal Ace. Although we seem to never see eye to eye, I do respect you as a poster here. It\'s just a sensative subject for me, I guess, and I took it a little personally. If it came out as an attack because of that, I\'m sorry. I meant to attack the person who wrote the article, and not you. Sorry.
And your views don\'t make me sick. One of the great things about this country is that you are entitled to whatever views you want. I won\'t look down on someone for views on war and peace, politics, or anything like that. What makes me sick is someone else telling me that by holding onto my own beliefs, I am somehow betraying those lost on that day.
And a clarification: I do not hate this country. I love this country. I just happen to disagree with the government in power. Part of why I am so pationate about politics at times is because of my love for this country, its people, and what it has to offer. I am only working to make the country better, in the ways I think it needs to be improved. I don\'t hate this country, I don\'t hate Americans. I hate certain aspects of the government, yes, but I do not hate America.
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Originally posted by Ace
losses, I do not understand why you want to attack me.
I think the article makes some good points. Sometime you need war to have peace. I for one do not want to become one of the fallen because my country did not have the backbone to stand up and protect it\'s citizens.
"our" citizens aren\'t in any danger except from radical groups that are hard to target. N.Korea is more of a threat with nukes to reach the west coast.
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we\'re the big kid on the block and we\'ew actin glike it, avatarr. If you don\'t like it, we\'ll kick your ass too.l
j/k ;)
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Originally posted by shockwaves
It\'s nothing personal Ace. Although we seem to never see eye to eye, I do respect you as a poster here. It\'s just a sensative subject for me, I guess, and I took it a little personally. If it came out as an attack because of that, I\'m sorry. I meant to attack the person who wrote the article, and not you. Sorry.
And your views don\'t make me sick. One of the great things about this country is that you are entitled to whatever views you want. I won\'t look down on someone for views on war and peace, politics, or anything like that. What makes me sick is someone else telling me that by holding onto my own beliefs, I am somehow betraying those lost on that day.
And a clarification: I do not hate this country. I love this country. I just happen to disagree with the government in power. Part of why I am so pationate about politics at times is because of my love for this country, its people, and what it has to offer. I am only working to make the country better, in the ways I think it needs to be improved. I don\'t hate this country, I don\'t hate Americans. I hate certain aspects of the government, yes, but I do not hate America.
shockwaves,
I never believed or thought you were someone who hated this country. We might disagree, but as you said, this is what makes our country great. I do believe, however, there is a certain element in this country that hates America. They only see the bad, and none of the great things we have accomplished.
Also know, that I would never make light of the tragedy of 9/11. Although I did not know anyone personally who died that day, I mourned with the rest of the country.
I have to hit the hay, I think I am in for one rotten hangover in the morning. :)
Ace
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I don\'t understand why you keep posting stuff like this, Ace. Do you actually think you\'re going to persuade the international members of this forum, or the substantial number of American members who disagree with the upcoming war?
You and your buddy Gov. Bush are going to get what you want. I have no doubt that we are going to bomb the hell out of Iraq very soon. Shouldn\'t you be happy? Why continue posting propaganda and stirring up sh1t? Just kick back and open a beer dude. I\'ve determined that I\'m not going to change your mind, and you\'re not going to change mine.
So just drop it already.
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sitll makes for intwatsting conversation. Lets seee how manyt imes we cna discuss something b4 of runnign out of different ways of saying the same shit over and over :D
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Originally posted by CHIZZY
I was only referring to the brits who are calling USA warmongers...warmongerers....warmongerererererers.
you know, the sign-holders and such. ;)
Yeah i know i hate that kind too :)
they will be protesting today.
Hu
i have a 13 hour Shift to do today, i for one would like to know were there Sign-holders and soap dodgers get all that free time frim :mad:..
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Originally posted by Coredweller
I don\'t understand why you keep posting stuff like this, Ace. Do you actually think you\'re going to persuade the international members of this forum, or the substantial number of American members who disagree with the upcoming war?
You and your buddy Gov. Bush are going to get what you want. I have no doubt that we are going to bomb the hell out of Iraq very soon. Shouldn\'t you be happy? Why continue posting propaganda and stirring up sh1t? Just kick back and open a beer dude. I\'ve determined that I\'m not going to change your mind, and you\'re not going to change mine.
So just drop it already.
OK Coredweller,
Next t time I post something I\'ll include a penis joke or maybe a I\'ll mention the word rape in my post. Because you know we don\'t get enough of that around here.
Unless, you want me to PM you when I have an idea for a thread. This way you can let me know if it interests you.
Ace
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Originally posted by Coredweller
I don\'t understand why you keep posting stuff like this, Ace. Do you actually think you\'re going to persuade the international members of this forum, or the substantial number of American members who disagree with the upcoming war?
You and your buddy Gov. Bush are going to get what you want. I have no doubt that we are going to bomb the hell out of Iraq very soon. Shouldn\'t you be happy? Why continue posting propaganda and stirring up sh1t? Just kick back and open a beer dude. I\'ve determined that I\'m not going to change your mind, and you\'re not going to change mine.
So just drop it already.
Between yours and shockwaves personal attacks on Ace for posting an article - both of you should apologize. He has every right to post whatever he wants here (within forum guidelines) and so do you as long you don\'t attack other members. I happen to agree with the article and Ace\'s point of view, but if the shoe were on the other foot I certainly wouldn\'t tell him to stop posting items which you two consider to be instigating :rolleyes:
I read all of the liberal leftist "propaganda" that comes from you two and both I and Ace have never asked/told you to stop posting your opinions no matter how much we disagree with them.
You say it isn\'t personal, but both of you should really reread your posts as they came across as a personal attack on him and his beliefs. So we may be in the minority on this board in regards to the war, that doesn\'t mean we don\'t have the right to express our views and beliefs on the matter.
Some could call Ace, myself and others blind patriots - Some may call you and shockwaves un-American. I don\'t think either are true. As Ace, shockwaves and you have stated it is your right to disagree, that is what makes America so great. Just don\'t start personally attacking someone for those beliefs. Up until now, we have all disagreed and kept it civil, unforunately some have taken it a little too far. Lets respect each others opinions without the insults or name calling.
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You know, that GigaShadow girl can be such a bitch sometimes. She\'s a slut too. Did u know that she once had sex with three separate guys in one night! Oh god.
:)
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Giga:
A few things. First of all, leftist propaganda? When have I ever started a political topic here? Never. What I\'ve posted has always been defending my positions when someone else discredits it.
And that article was an attack on people who don\'t share the viewpoints of the author. It is no different from what I wrote.
I never said you don\'t have the right to post what you want. What you have to realize though is that if you post something that truly offends me, I will respond.
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Originally posted by ooseven
Yeah i know i hate that kind too :)
they will be protesting today.
Hu
i have a 13 hour Shift to do today, i for one would like to know were there Sign-holders and soap dodgers get all that free time frim :mad:..
Yeah, I would like to know that as well.
GET TO WORK, YOU LAZY PEACENIKS!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by shockwaves
Giga:
A few things. First of all, leftist propaganda? When have I ever started a political topic here? Never. What I\'ve posted has always been defending my positions when someone else discredits it.
And that article was an attack on people who don\'t share the viewpoints of the author. It is no different from what I wrote.
I never said you don\'t have the right to post what you want. What you have to realize though is that if you post something that truly offends me, I will respond.
What you refer to was directed at Core, as for the insulting - I was talking to both of you.
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The insulting then. If someone offends me, whether it is directed specifically at me, or as in this case, with a more general attack at my beliefs or something close to me, I have every right to respond as I did. I was offended by what was posted, and if you think I was wrong to say what I did, then ignore it. The bottom line is that I will say things like that when someone decides to post something to the effect of what Ace did. That\'s just the way I am.
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How the hell was that article offensive?
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I didn\'t personally attack anyone. I have no idea how you could say that. Do you know what it means? A personal attack is when someone posts something like what Avatarr did above. He\'s giving you a demonstration so you\'ll recognize it next time, and not confuse it with what I posted.
I would never write a personal attack, and I resent your accusation.
I\'m taking issue with Ace\'s intentions behind posting this thread. I\'m calling it what I think it is... TROLLING. That\'s when you post something contentious for the purpose of stirring up sh1t. I think he posted it because he knew there would be people here who strongly disagree, and he wanted to push their buttons. Like Shockwaves, I have never started a political thread, and I don\'t intend to.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
How the hell was that article offensive?
How about I post an article talking about how you are betraying friends of yours that were murdered by holding to your beliefs, and you tell me if you take offense.
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I posted it because I though it was a good f\'n article. I am the last person you should call a troll. My history here should be proof enough that I don\'t post crap just to be a prick. I guess if being a troll is posting something to get a good debate going then you\'re right.
I post things here because I want to start a conversation.
I apoligize if it isn\'t adolescent enough for you.
Ace
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Okay guys, you know my views on the subject matter, so I won\'t post them again.
However, may I please ask that we stay on subject and avoid actual name calling / personal attacks? I give you that this is a heated topic that effects us all, but I know we are more civil than that.
Thanks.
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Ace: I\'m not saying you shouldn\'t post things like that. In fact, you should probably continue posting things like that, as these types of conversations are one of the main things that hold my interest right now on these boards. The article just happened to rub me the wrong way. Perhaps I didn\'t react the best way, but oh well. I definitely do not think you are a troll for posting such things, and definitely do not think you should stop posting such things.
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That\'s cool! I really like political debates and topics like the ones we usually but heads over. I get into a lot of debates with my friends it hasn\'t come to blows . . . yet.
P.S. You know what I mean when I say blows. Don\'t even think it! :)
Ace
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Originally posted by Coredweller
I didn\'t personally attack anyone. I have no idea how you could say that. Do you know what it means? A personal attack is when someone posts something like what Avatarr did above. He\'s giving you a demonstration so you\'ll recognize it next time, and not confuse it with what I posted.
I would never write a personal attack, and I resent your accusation.
I\'m taking issue with Ace\'s intentions behind posting this thread. I\'m calling it what I think it is... TROLLING. That\'s when you post something contentious for the purpose of stirring up sh1t. I think he posted it because he knew there would be people here who strongly disagree, and he wanted to push their buttons. Like Shockwaves, I have never started a political thread, and I don\'t intend to.
No my friend, pushing buttons is what you are doing. There is nothing offensive about that article and he was sharing a well written article by a European directed at other Europeans.
As for you continually questioning my ability to comprehend the English language, I do take offense to your tone. You constantly reply with veiled insults to try and belittle others who don\'t agree with your beliefs. I have yet to see you respond without resorting to this method when it comes to topics such as this.
Accusing him of trolling and intentionally trying to stir up "sh1t" is a personal attack IMO and I would hardly call Ace a troll on these forums. The article is not controversial in the least and for you to imply so shows your hostility towards anything that REMOTELY goes against your beliefs. I have seen more questionable posts out of other members that didn\'t stir anything up nearly as much as this has and I firmly believe it wasn\'t the article as much as it was the poster that brought about these rabid replies.
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Ace said that he didn\'t post the article to incite problems, and I believe him. Therefore, I apologize for calling him a troll, and I\'d appreciate it if we could put this argument to rest. I don\'t have anything personal against Ace or Giga or anyone else here except maybe Samwise. :D
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Originally posted by Coredweller
Ace said that he didn\'t post the article to incite problems, and I believe him. Therefore, I apologize for calling him a troll, and I\'d appreciate it if we could put this argument to rest. I don\'t have anything personal against Ace or Giga or anyone else here except maybe Samwise. :D
It\'s cool with me. I like a good debate and I like differing opinions. I think in the end it might help all of us to learn something.
By the way, as time goes on you will find that I am always right. :)
Ace
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Thats cool, I have not posted anything political lately other than replying to things as there really isn\'t much more to say about the Iraqi subject until if/when something happens.
I do agree with you Core, that political debates tend to get heated and emotions do run high and that is what happened here in my opinion. No harm done as I don\'t think any less of you for what was said. It could easily have been me saying things like that if I had disagreed with a post at any given time over this past week.
I respect you and everyone else whose opinion I disagree with (with the exception of SirMystiq :p ) on matters like this. Once again, until something new or relevant happens regarding Iraq or N. Korea I will probably keep a low profile on topics like this for a while. ;)
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Im used to being bashed about my opinions or whatever. But, damn guys, c\'mon you get heated up over politics. Is GWB going to come by the forums and check to see if we agree with him or not? NO. He\'s going to do whatever he feels like, our opinions don\'t matter. It\'s just fun seeing how other people call others names, then turn around and be assholes themselves. Giga, man you know you do that, I don\'t hate you or whatever, but my opinions aren\'t any different than other people\'s opinions.
.......
Anyways, I meant that in a good way.