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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: fastson on February 16, 2003, 07:18:24 AM
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Seems so..
I saw this on Text TV..
America is to punish Germany for leading international opposition to a war against Iraq. The US will withdraw all its troops and bases from there and end military and industrial co-operation between the two countries - moves that could cost the Germans billions of euros.
The plan - discussed by Pentagon officials and military chiefs last week on the orders of Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld - is designed \'to harm\' the German economy to make an example of the country for what US hawks see as Chancellor Gerhard Schröder\'s \'treachery\'.
The hawks believe that making an example of Germany will force other countries heavily dependent on US trade to think twice about standing up to America in future.
This follows weeks of increasingly angry exchanges between Rumsfeld and Germany, in which at one point he taunted Germany and France for being an irrelevant part of \'old Europe\'.
Now Rumsfeld has decided to go further by unilaterally imposing the Pentagon\'s sanctions on a country already in the throes of economic problems.
\'We are doing this for one reason only: to harm the German economy,\' one source told The Observer last week.
\'Our troops contribute many millions of dollars. Why should we continue to support a country which has treated Nato and the protection we provided for decades with such incredible contempt?\'
Another Pentagon source said: \'The aim is to hit German trade and commerce. It is not just about taking out the troops and equipment; it is also about cancelling commercial contracts and defence-related arrangements.\'
The Pentagon plan - and the language expressed by officials close to Rumsfeld - has horrified State Department officials, who believe that bullying other countries to follow the US line will further exacerbate anti-Americanism and alienate those European countries that might support a United Nations resolution authorising a war.
German industry earns billions of euros every year from supporting the US Army Europe which, although reduced from its Cold War heights, still totals 42,000 troops and 785 tanks - almost three times as many as the British Army owns. Many of these soldiers and their fighting equipment, including Apache helicopters, have already been sent to the Gulf.
German industry is heavily involved in supporting the US presence. Among the defence companies which stand to lose out are missile-maker Diehl, aerospace and defence giant EADS Deutschland, armaments maker Rheinmetall and vehicle maker Krauss-Maffei Wegmann.
There is also a US Air Force contingent of about 15,000 service people with bases at Bitburg, Frankfurt-am-Main and neighbouring Ramstein, where the commander doubles as part of the Nato command. This force includes nearly 60 F-16 fighter-bombers and a squadron of A-10 tank-buster aircraft.
Rumsfeld and his staff have made no attempt to hide their fury at Schröder\'s \'treachery and ineptitude\' over Iraq. Last week Schröder leaked to reporters a Franco-German plan for avoiding war by increasing the number of UN weapons inspectors before informing his American counterparts.
\'After this, Germany is finished as a serious power,\' one of the sources added. \'This is simply not the way to conduct diplomacy at a moment of international crisis.\' One diplomatic source said Rumsfeld was \'furious at Germany. He is a bruiser and it looks as though he means to do it\'.
Under these plans, the US would move its troops in Europe eastwards to countries such as Poland, the Czech Republic and the Baltic states, all of which have strongly supported America\'s line against Saddam Hussein. It is likely that the overall size of the deployment would be reduced, as the US military changes its priorities for a long-term and disparate engagement with international terrorism.
Although Rumsfeld had already been considering a redeployment of US troops around the world after a war in Iraq to save money and respond to new threats, the plans now under consideration go far beyond what had been discussed.
It is likely that future years will see a sharp increase in the proportion of special forces troops able to deploy rapidly across the globe.
Germany would suffer considerable financial loss if US forces were withdrawn from the country. The bases provide jobs for local people as everything from administrators to cleaners, and are huge customers for dairy products and bread.
http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,896573,00.html
Jesus, great plan! This will make people love the US government even MORE! :rolleyes:
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plain and utter bullshit.
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I really doubt that story and I doubt it will happen. Not a bad idea though.
Ace
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Not a bad idea?
Lets create more terrorists in the world!! YAYYY!!!
This time its over a war, when is the next. When italy elects a leader that isnt necessarily bad but the US administration doesnt like them?
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I did not say that it would be politically wise to do it. That\'s why I think the article is far fetched.
It would be nice to send a message to our "friends", though.
Ace
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this coming from a country that has never paid a single penny to the UN!
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Originally posted by Ace
I really doubt that story and I doubt it will happen. Not a bad idea though.
Ace
:laughing: too true :laughing:
most Germans whould want nothing better than for the UK & US forces to leave Germany one and for all.
Hey Bush... if you want to "punish" a country...then don\'t do something that they want all along.
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Man, this government can be stupid at times. Germany is entitled to their opinion. Lets not screw them.
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Originally posted by Titan
Man, this government can be stupid at times. Germany is entitled to their opinion. Lets not screw them.
like i said... most Germans hate the presence of US & UK forces and want nothing better then to see them gone.
Anyway Germany is entitled to have its views on the war, and with the majority of the german population against the war its NICE to see a goverment that listens to It\'s People.
Unlike Mr Tony "i\'ll be out on my @rse if this go\'s wrong" BLIAR
ah well i find all this intresting to see that the LARGEST numbers for yesterdays walk was in London with over a million.
:rolleyes: i wonder if the Bush Admin with threaten to do something to piss us of for that move:rolleyes:
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I don\'t like this... Germany is playing with fire.
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What a load of tosh.
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Yeah, its not true.
WTF is text TV anyway?
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Originally posted by Adan
I don\'t like this... Germany is playing with fire.
Having a different opinion is playing with fire? :confused:
I think it’s the other way around.. It can blow up in their faces.
WTF is text TV anyway?
Text being broadcasted by the channels.. You don’t have it?
Looks like this.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tv4.se%2Ftexttv%2F1%2FP100S01.gif&hash=09b9845195b3d9dbd2f1bbc1e76cb2ec79b57cf1)
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America doesn\'t get anything like that. I have no patience to read that crap anyway :)
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I find this info no where else. Personally I don\'t really care if we pull out of Germany. I don\'t know why they would need us there anyway. Didn\'t they try to take over the world a few years ago? I\'d think they could take care of themselves. :)
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People choose to be terrorists, no one creates terrorists. It may seem that way but I am not going to run down to the gas station and blow it up because gas costs too much right now. People that blow themselves up and kill others choose to do it, they may have a reason behind it, but let them have there 40 virgins in heaven when they get there, rather they will be in hell for killing innocent lives.
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Originally posted by fastson
Having a different opinion is playing with fire? :confused:
I think it’s the other way around.. It can blow up in their faces.
I don\'t mind the opinion of anyone, what I meant is that USA can damage seriously one of the most important countries of Europe: I think nowadays money is more important than bombs, you know.
And yes, we spaniards do have that TV-TEXT, in every channel. Useful some times, useless the most. :p
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Originally posted by Adan
I don\'t mind the opinion of anyone, what I meant is that USA can damage seriously one of the most important countries of Europe: I think nowadays money is more important than bombs, you know.
And yes, we spaniards do have that TV-TEXT, in every channel. Useful some times, useless the most. :p
Ok :)
Well if its true I don’t like where things are going.
Btw I just heard Germany has agreed to meet and discuss a agreement (compromised) about the Turky NATO thing..
Maybe if the "threats" are true, it has affected them.
I only use Text TV to check the TV Guides and sometimes news. :D
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I think they\'ll reconsider their position in the conflict, I\'m sure.
And yes, I mainly use it for tv guide, football results and some kinda of data like lotery, etc. News use to be old, bad and wrong :D
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Originally posted by fastson
Having a different opinion is playing with fire? :confused:
I think it’s the other way around.. It can blow up in their faces.
Text being broadcasted by the channels.. You don’t have it?
Looks like this.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tv4.se%2Ftexttv%2F1%2FP100S01.gif&hash=09b9845195b3d9dbd2f1bbc1e76cb2ec79b57cf1)
Whoa it looks like a SNES menu... :D
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The problem I have with all of this is that NATO will lose all power by not standing up to the IRAQI\'s. They will be a joke. If you don\'t abide by thes resolutions and the consequences are war then so be it. Saddam knew it when he signed the resolution to end the war 12 years ago.
Terrorists should have no fear what-so-ever of the security council cause they have no freaking backbone.