PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: The Stapler on February 21, 2003, 07:45:43 PM
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and that\'s all there is to it! Bin Laden even said so Here (http://www.msnbc.com/news/871811.asp) ...
“The September 11 attackers destroyed the idols of infidel America and rubbed the nose of the United States in the dirt,” the newspaper quoted bin Laden as saying. “They proved that it (the United States) could be defeated and humiliated,” he added. “Oh Muslims, do not fear America because we have defeated them repeatedly and they are the most cowardly of people when you meet them face to face.”
:o
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Americans are cowards?
I hope your sarcastic, because I could/would/should hunt you down and kill you. :D
Who the hell cares about Bin Laden, when someone thinks killing hundreds and hundreds of thousands, without even stepping foot, or even doing it himself, is considered cowardly..
Osama Bin Laden is a coward, sending others to do his work. He is a coward..
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i say it like this...
George Bush is a coward, Howard is a coward, any person in power is a coward.
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speaking of cowards, who is hiding in some cave in some moutain in the middle of nowhere and scared shitless of coming out? (answer this and u get a cookie ;))
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Laden can Rot in hell...
Americans aren\'t cowards....they\'re just trying to do things right...except Bush. :)
Newayz, What\'s with all the talk I hear about not buying French things anymore, is there some kind of boycott going on?
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Originally posted by Tyrant
speaking of cowards, who is hiding in some cave in some moutain in the middle of nowhere and scared shitless of coming out? (answer this and u get a cookie ;))
You\'re telling me bush wouldn\'t hide UNDER a big rock if war was looking for him.. ;)
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Well the Americans have great technology.They can blow things with the touch of a button or bomb the enemy with their planes:D
COME DOWN AND FIGHT FACE TO FACE WITH THE ENNEMIES U CHICKENS:D!
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we want to start a war and were cowards?
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I wouldn\'t name coward to americans. You can find an atomic bomb in your town the next morning.
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Originally posted by cloud345
we want to start a war and were cowards?
Yeah, those laser guided missiles take real courage, hehe. J/k buddy ;)
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
You\'re telling me bush wouldn\'t hide UNDER a big rock if war was looking for him.. ;)
hell no, if anything bush has been hiding since 9/11.
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I would call America more of a bully than coward. When I hear people call America the biggest terrorist I can\'t really say they are wrong. They put their nose in the world\'s business and use their military might to do what they want.
They will be humbled - again
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by nature, humans are cowardly beings
we\'re not at the top of the food chain because of our ferocity
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Originally posted by Spudz
Americans are cowards?
I hope your sarcastic, because I could/would/should hunt you down and kill you. :D
It was a jestfully cynical comment in regards to Bin Laden\'s (supposed) quotes.
Who the hell cares about Bin Laden, when someone thinks killing hundreds and hundreds of thousands, without even stepping foot, or even doing it himself, is considered cowardly..
I take it you consider Bush, or any governmental/military leader of the past, present and future to be cowards, also?
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Originally posted by mm
by nature, humans are cowardly beings
we\'re not at the top of the food chain because of our ferocity
We had to get there somehow.
Clubs and spears had to be invented for a purpose.
Cowardly as individuals, perhaps (for the most part). In groups, we\'re all heroes.
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Originally posted by mm
by nature, humans are cowardly beings
we\'re not at the top of the food chain because of our ferocity
well, according to certain ...ahhum... scientific/social studies, we humans, get very aggressive, ferocious and violent by playing our man made videogames....*cough -> Postal2 .. any GTA game...cough*.
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in groups, were heroes?
omfg, mob mentality! thats when humans are at thier worst!
humans, by nature, are individualists
why do you think they tell women to scream "fire" instead of "rape"?
why do you think people slow to a crawl when there\'s a wreck on the highway?
look at all the people that died in that chicago nightclub cause they were trying to rush out one entrance...where were the f\'n heroes in the crowd that night? thats right, they were stepping on the backs of the women to get outside
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Originally posted by Clowd
They will be humbled - again
I think not my friend. By the time this is over, the world will once again see the power of the dark si.... Sorry, momentary lapse of reasoning.:D
The world will see that the terrorists have awaken the same great sleeping giant that the Japanese woke years ago.:evil:
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Originally posted by project86
I think not my friend. By the time this is over, the world will once again see the power of the dark si.... Sorry, momentary lapse of reasoning.:D
The world will see that the terrorists have awaken the same great sleeping giant that the Japanese woke years ago.:evil:
Adan is right, don\'t f*ck with the U.S.A. I may not agree with war or anything but it is not smart to come to our country and take two symbols of freedom right out of the sky and call us cowards, who the f*ck does he think he is. Bush COWARD???? Hell he\'s about 1 hour from where I live how is he hiding??? We know about every visit to his ranch, that is not hiding, Cheney would be the one hiding.
We should of pulled our troops out of Saudi and Germany years ago but we haven\'t, and we pissed some people off so now we have to straighten things out by kickin some ass.
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Laden is a coward. If he wasn\'t a coward, he\'d take his army and fight us like men.
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Originally posted by Spudz
Who the hell cares about Bin Laden, when someone thinks killing hundreds and hundreds of thousands, without even stepping foot, or even doing it himself, is considered cowardly.
Hiroshima - Nagasaki
Originally posted by mm
in groups, were heroes?
omfg, mob mentality! thats when humans are at thier worst!
humans, by nature, are individualists
why do you think they tell women to scream "fire" instead of "rape"?
why do you think people slow to a crawl when there\'s a wreck on the highway?
look at all the people that died in that chicago nightclub cause they were trying to rush out one entrance...where were the f\'n heroes in the crowd that night? thats right, they were stepping on the backs of the women to get outside
I agree with you about humans(like all animals) being, at their most basic form, indivualists. However, the examples you gave have nothing to do with that fact.
If a person cared about only themselves they would not come to a call of "rape" or "fire". Anyone that comes is showing hero-like qualities(A disregard for personal safety).
Rubbernecking has nothing to do with individualism.
If that statement were entirely true wouldn\'t more people have died? If everyone was trying to save themself by rushing the door more people would have died. There had to be someone there trying to settle everyone down.
The fact of the matter is that while people are in fact indivualists, they are motivated by ego and in a group that factor is amplified. So in a group the individual is more likely to show hero-like qualities.
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
It was a jestfully cynical comment in regards to Bin Laden\'s (supposed) quotes.
I take it you consider Bush, or any governmental/military leader of the past, present and future to be cowards, also?
I do consider Bush somewhat of a coward.
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Originally posted by mjps21983
Adan is right, don\'t f*ck with the U.S.A. I may not agree with war or anything but it is not smart to come to our country and take two symbols of freedom right out of the sky and call us cowards, who the f*ck does he think he is. Bush COWARD???? Hell he\'s about 1 hour from where I live how is he hiding??? We know about every visit to his ranch, that is not hiding, Cheney would be the one hiding.
We should of pulled our troops out of Saudi and Germany years ago but we haven\'t, and we pissed some people off so now we have to straighten things out by kickin some ass.
Once again, you are very proud of your military might and think you can boss over countries around and do what you want. Like the situation in Iraq. You dont like Suddam and you want to have control over the oil there. So what does America do? They go to war with them and take what they want. Iraq had done everything it could do to prevent war but the U.S. does not stop because their true purpous is not to to disarm Iraq, but, rather to seize control of the oil.
Believe me, if they do that, they will be humbled.
And no, I\'m not the only one who thinks that way.
The point is, if the U.S. kept its nose in its own business, by not picking sides in the Middle East conflict, Bin Laden and most of the Muslim nation wouldnt hate America.
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Originally posted by Clowd
The point is, if the U.S. kept its nose in its own business
EXACTLY WHAT I THINK!!!!!
America thinks we are the worlds police and we make the laws and rules for the entire world. America spends billions helping homeless in foreign countries that wont even bother to help America when we need it, while we have millions homeless, dying, and sick people. America spends too freely with its money. We need to sort our priorities out.
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actually nobody is coward and nobody LIKES piece or war.
I just believe that opinions and decisions are money-dependant.
Unfortunately...
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Originally posted by Spudz
EXACTLY WHAT I THINK!!!!!
America thinks we are the worlds police and we make the laws and rules for the entire world. America spends billions helping homeless in foreign countries that wont even bother to help America when we need it, while we have millions homeless, dying, and sick people. America spends too freely with its money. We need to sort our priorities out.
:crying: :crying: :crying:
I\'ve said that many times!!
But nobody ever says,
"I agree with SirMyztiq"
NOBODY!!!!
I\'ve posted that before, if the US would stop playing god then none of this would of happened....
Ohh well, it\'s nice to see my opinions aren\'t "Stupid" and "Anti-American".
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I agree with SirMystiq :p but i got to say that some stupid things are being said here like :
Originally posted by Unicron!
COME DOWN AND FIGHT FACE TO FACE WITH THE ENNEMIES U CHICKENS:D!
1- Ya like they are stupid anough to come fight with the Us army ? I hate to admit it but they are doing the smart thing , ther are doing sabotage !
Originally posted by mjps21983
but it is not smart to come to our country and take two symbols of freedom right out of the sky and call us cowards, who the f*ck does he think he is.
2 - In what way are the WTC towers a symbol or freedom ? i thought they were the center of the American Economie , and i also thought that the statue of liberty was the symbol !
He that gets me thinking , if i were a terrorist the Statue of liberty would be a great target ( no deaths , but lots of meaning )
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The theme of this board changes about like japanese card games. Yesterday it was pokemon and today Yugioh.
Yesterday it was religion and today it\'s america sucks.
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Originally posted by Spudz
Americans are cowards?
I hope your sarcastic, because I could/would/should hunt you down and kill you. :D
Woah there, put down your weapons of mass destruction! :)
I am an American myself and would not like to be labeled a coward any more than you. Like Bob said, I was being cynical. I also found it ironic that he called us cowards.
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I myself was also being sarcastic, notice the " :D " ?
lol
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The united States want nothing to do with the oil, its not like we\'re going to establish our own government, we are going to leave the country to be re established. I can\'t say I agree with us going to war because he might have some weapons of mass destruction. Are we trying to stop something before it happens yeah, are bin laden and hussien bed buddies, problably not since bin laden has referred to the Iraqi government as infidels in their own right.
When it comes down to it, this war will not be about some oil. It will be about taking a dangerous man out of control of a country where he has reportedly killed his own people for numerous reasons and is a threat to our country and surounding countries who do not comply with the way Iraq wishes to rule.
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Originally posted by pats8383
The united States want nothing to do with the oil, its not like we\'re going to establish our own government, we are going to leave the country to be re established. I can\'t say I agree with us going to war because he might have some weapons of mass destruction. Are we trying to stop something before it happens yeah, are bin laden and hussien bed buddies, problably not since bin laden has referred to the Iraqi government as infidels in their own right.
When it comes down to it, this war will not be about some oil. It will be about taking a dangerous man out of control of a country where he has reportedly killed his own people for numerous reasons and is a threat to our country and surounding countries who do not comply with the way Iraq wishes to rule.
Hmmm....
1. Bullshit...
2.Bullshit..we will set up a dummy government like we have in the past...
3.Osama doesnt even like Saddam, he looks at him as somewhat of a traitor/turncoat to the Islamic/Muslim nation.
4. Bullshit..
5. Bullshit..it is about oil..yes he is dangerous, but not to us.
6. Iraq hasnt started a war in 10 years, and before that, it was a while.
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Originally posted by Spudz
I myself was also being sarcastic, notice the " :D " ?
lol
I knew that.
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Bin Laden is such a wuss. He didnt want to take the US head on in an all out battle so he sent two planes to crash into the World Trade Center towers thats loaded with civilians and then dance around like fairies in their cave with wet towels over their heads. Yeah, if Bin Laden had courage, hed challenge the US to Mortal Kombat and duke it out old school. That wuss. :mad:
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Sadam Hussein is a man who tests chemical and biological weapons on his own people and yet no one thinks we should take him out of power. I\'m 2 and even I\'m not that freaking stupid.
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Originally posted by shingoku
Bin Laden is such a wuss. He didnt want to take the US head on in an all out battle so he sent two planes to crash into the World Trade Center towers thats loaded with civilians and then dance around like fairies in their cave with wet towels over their heads. Yeah, if Bin Laden had courage, hed challenge the US to Mortal Kombat and duke it out old school. That wuss. :mad:
ya ok ... some just can\'t think a little !! do you really think his army is huge anough to be face to face with US ? he would be stupid to just do an open war ! He his not wuss but infortunatly smart ! and yes its sad for the civilian :(
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One of the treasonist Human Shield dudes was on the radio the other day from inside Iraq. He was going on and on about he was there for the people and how he is trying to take a stand for the wonderful people of Iraq. So these people are just going to hang out at places that civilians hang out to hope that the americans will rethink droppoing a bomb on that target.
This isn\'t the 1940s. We aren\'t going to carpet bomb the entire country. Friggen idiots.
Funniest thing is that the host kept on asking him that if he was for helping the people then why is he for Saddam killing his own people. He just kept on saying that he is not there to stand up for the government. He\'s there to stand up for the people.
Well no freaking shit. I think we are all doing this for the people you stupid ass. I can sit here on my couch and say I don\'t want to kill any innocent civilians.
Another question he asked was how they are paying for this. Is Saddam giving them any money. Well he denied that and I probably believe him, but what he did say was funny. He said that most of the people are planning on filing for bankruptsy when they get back to the states? Um, What???? You leave this country to go and take a stand against our enemy and then plan on coming back and not paying your debts to your own country?
I need a new steering wheel after I heard that line.
I\'ve come to the realization that people in general are stupid.
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Originally posted by Big Log
Sadam Hussein is a man who tests chemical and biological weapons on his own people and yet no one thinks we should take him out of power. I\'m 2 and even I\'m not that freaking stupid.
Yet it wasnt a big deal when our soldiers were given unknown substances to take during past wars..even in desert storm.
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...yawn...
this argument is going no where!
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Originally posted by luckee
Yet it wasnt a big deal when our soldiers were given unknown substances to take during past wars..even in desert storm.
Are you comparing giving soldiers drugs, to help prevent complications with a biological attack with someone who was actually using these chemicals and biological agents on his people for testing? If there is anyway you can reply to that then there is no hope.
I realize that the agents given to the soldiers had some adverse reactions, but the complications aren\'t widespread and many may have been complications from other factors as well.
Nothing like what saddam is doing.
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Originally posted by mm
in groups, were heroes?
omfg, mob mentality! thats when humans are at thier worst!
humans, by nature, are individualists
why do you think they tell women to scream "fire" instead of "rape"?
why do you think people slow to a crawl when there\'s a wreck on the highway?
look at all the people that died in that chicago nightclub cause they were trying to rush out one entrance...where were the f\'n heroes in the crowd that night? thats right, they were stepping on the backs of the women to get outside
I didn\'t actually mean they were heroes...
I meant that the \'individual\' is much more likely to be picking a fight if he has a group of men standing behind him with sharp sticks...
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you call that being a "hero"?
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Not at all. I was being ironic..
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why do you think I am proud of and want to boss people around, I don\'t really think I like to boss people around, so don\'t assume Clowd. Oh yeah we want Iraqs oil so bad, you think if we wanted that bad we would would of already have been there and in power??? Imperialism is a lost thought Clowd.
Originally posted by Clowd
Once again, you are very proud of your military might and think you can boss over countries around and do what you want. Like the situation in Iraq. You dont like Suddam and you want to have control over the oil there. So what does America do? They go to war with them and take what they want. Iraq had done everything it could do to prevent war but the U.S. does not stop because their true purpous is not to to disarm Iraq, but, rather to seize control of the oil.
Believe me, if they do that, they will be humbled.
And no, I\'m not the only one who thinks that way.
The point is, if the U.S. kept its nose in its own business, by not picking sides in the Middle East conflict, Bin Laden and most of the Muslim nation wouldnt hate America.
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Originally posted by luckee
5. Bullshit..it is about oil..yes he is dangerous, but not to us.
Thats a truckload of bullshit right there. It isn\'t about oil. We don\'t give two shits. Theres just as much in Alaska that would be drilled if the environmentalists would stop being bitches about it. The reason we have a gas shortage is because OPEC refuses to give us more. And he is dangerous, especially to us. He wouldn\'t have started mass destruction programs if it wasn\'t for us. We are probably his first target when they\'re done. He also does have terrorist ties.
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Actually, mjps, US Imperialism is a very real thought, and yes, it is happening. Don\'t be blind to the truth -- Clowd is absolutley right.
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by Gohan
Hiroshima - Nagasaki
Are you trying to make a point or are you just remembering when America showed the world exactly how far it will go if you senslessly murder innocent citizens of the United States. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they realized that they were in for a fight they could not win. And we proved that to be true. Cities will fall to bring justice to those who dare oppose the United States. We will not stand by and wait for furthering attacks, we will destroy any threat that comes against us.
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Originally posted by project86
Are you trying to make a point or are you just remembering when America showed the world exactly how far it will go if you senslessly murder innocent citizens of the United States. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they realized that they were in for a fight they could not win. And we proved that to be true. Cities will fall to bring justice to those who dare oppose the United States. We will not stand by and wait for furthering attacks, we will destroy any threat that comes against us.
Pearl Harbor = Military Base
Deliberate Attack on Military = Act of War
Hiroshima/Nagasaki = Civilian Cities
Deliberate Attack on Civilians = Terrorism
Plain and simple.
How do you think the world would react now if a country responded to an act of war with a "Weapon of Mass Destruction" attack on a large civilian population?
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Originally posted by project86
. And we proved that to be true. Cities will fall to bring justice to those who dare oppose the United States.
[sarcasm mode]
yeah thats what i like to see....
Bomb Indiscriminately … kill Countless Civilians…
Make the Living envy the Dead
After all its their fault for being born in a country (under dictator ship / on the wrong side of a war…etc ..etc..etc…)
[/sarcasm mode]
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Gohan
Pearl Harbor = Military Base
Deliberate Attack on Military = Act of War
Hiroshima/Nagasaki = Civilian Cities
Deliberate Attack on Civilians = Terrorism
Plain and simple.
How do you think the world would react now if a country responded to an act of war with a "Weapon of Mass Destruction" attack on a large civilian population?
Guys like you and the rest of those who are so quick to judge the actions of the United States make me sick. The only cowards I see are those much like yourself who have decided to forget September 11th and all who died in the senseless attacks. I have not forgotten, nor will I undergo such a radical change of heart as I see so many “Americans” (if they can call themselves that) have. It’s pathetic when we as a nation cannot stand in unity against a tyrannical bully that has not only been a threat to other sistering nations but to his own people. But please, don’t let me be the one to turn your head to what is right.
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Originally posted by Titan
Thats a truckload of bullshit right there. It isn\'t about oil. We don\'t give two shits. Theres just as much in Alaska that would be drilled if the environmentalists would stop being bitches about it. The reason we have a gas shortage is because OPEC refuses to give us more. And he is dangerous, especially to us. He wouldn\'t have started mass destruction programs if it wasn\'t for us. We are probably his first target when they\'re done. He also does have terrorist ties.
Anyone who doesnt believe this has nothing to do with oil is either blind or stupid..maybe both. SO if it is not about oil as much as you say its not, whay arent the goon squad lobbying to attack Nkorea since we KNOW the have nukes, not to mention the fact they can actually hit us with them vs. Saddam who could probably go no further than Isreal if he even has them.
Alaska is out of the question as it always has been. There is a HUGE deposit in northern alaska I believe it is in the middle of a national forest.
I dont believe we are in a gas shortage, I believe gas stations/ corporations are just taking advantage of a situation at the moment.
Like I said before, he is a very dangerous man, but not to us at the moment.
Prove the terrorist ties other than him giving money to the families of suicide bombers.
Gohan..thank you for that last post!
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Originally posted by ooseven
[sarcasm mode]
yeah thats what i like to see....
Bomb Indiscriminately … kill Countless Civilians…
Make the Living envy the Dead
After all its their fault for being born in a country (under dictator ship / on the wrong side of a war…etc ..etc..etc…)
[/sarcasm mode]
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by project86
Guys like you and the rest of those who are so quick to judge the actions of the United States make me sick. The only cowards I see are those much like yourself who have decided to forget September 11th and all who died in the senseless attacks. I have not forgotten, nor will I undergo such a radical change of heart as I see so many “Americans” (if they can call themselves that) have. It’s pathetic when we as a nation cannot stand in unity against a tyrannical bully that has not only been a threat to other sistering nations but to his own people. But please, don’t let me be the one to turn your head to what is right.
Please, if any country now or then would do that in response to one of their military bases being bombed, the US would be all over it like stink on shit. Its only bad when someone else does it right?
You like many others seem to like linking 9/11 and Saddam when they shouldnt since they arent.
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Originally posted by project86
The only cowards I see are those much like yourself who have decided to forget September 11th and all who died in the senseless attacks. I have not forgotten, nor will I undergo such a radical change of heart as I see so many “Americans” (if they can call themselves that) have. It’s pathetic when we as a nation cannot stand in unity against a tyrannical bully that has not only been a threat to other sistering nations but to his own people. But please, don’t let me be the one to turn your head to what is right.
oh yeah like 3000 dead in the WTC attacks are going to be replaced/Satisfied / avenged / Brought back for to life/ Justified ..etc
By causing more blood shed …. More killing … more destabilisation
:rolleyes:
oh and P.S.
if we are going to take the moral high ground.. then answer me this.
How is an Attack on Iraq , going to Bring "Bin Laden" to... JUSTICE ?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Haven\'t read the whole thread but...
It\'s gonna happen guys. Only a matter of time.......
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Originally posted by SER
Haven\'t read the whole thread but...
It\'s gonna happen guys. Only a matter of time.......
My thoughts exactly.
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Originally posted by project86
My thoughts exactly.
How can you say that...
Yes it will be a "Victory" Against the Axis of Evil.
But it will be the biggest Blow to the International WAR on Terror as the Attack on a second Islamic State in a matter of a year cause even more would be suicide "fighters" to join Bin Laden\'s Cause....
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Originally posted by ooseven
How can you say that...
Yes it will be a "Victory" Against the Axis of Evil.
But it will be the biggest Blow to the International WAR on Terror as the Attack on a second Islamic State in a matter of a year cause even more would be suicide "fighters" to join Bin Laden\'s Cause....
I say that only because SER mad a good point in saying that it is going to happen. Our government is hell bent on taking this guy out and we have no say in the matter. This is where our democratic position does nothing to sway the government. If they feel he (Saddam) or anybody for that matter is a threat, the government will try to take them out. It’s out of my hands but I will be in support of what they decide because I am still a free man. When the government decides to take my freedom, that is when I will not agree with them, however that is not happening in this case.
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You will blindly agree with and support what your government does just b/c you are free? That sounds kinda hypocritical in a way.
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Originally posted by luckee
You will blindly agree with and support what your government does just b/c you are free? That sounds kinda hypocritical in a way.
The democratic government in place here today has kept me a free man. I will support there endeavors as long as they do just that, maintain freedom for the American Citizens and for those under dictatorships.
Hypocrite or not, that is what I believe.
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Originally posted by project86
I say that only because SER mad a good point in saying that it is going to happen. Our government is hell bent on taking this guy out and we have no say in the matter. This is where our democratic position does nothing to sway the government. If they feel he (Saddam) or anybody for that matter is a threat, the government will try to take them out. It’s out of my hands but I will be in support of what they decide because I am still a free man. When the government decides to take my freedom, that is when I will not agree with them, however that is not happening in this case.
That seems contradictory to me.
Isn\'t taking away your say on such a matter, in effect, taking away the freedom?
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Whoah wait, so you Think its justified to Invade another country, because a group of terroists who we have no evidence supporting they were even connected to Iraq, attacked us? So if 5 Americans went and blew up something in another country, and they weren\'t part of our govermant, and we didn\'t help them, and then that other country invaded, you would agree with them? Cause thats what your sounding like to me.
And if Iraq has been giving all these chemicals to terroists, why did they use planes?
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good lord, someone needs a clue
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Originally posted by luckee
Like I said before, he is a very dangerous man, but not to us at the moment.
Thats the whole point. We are going to war with him because he does have the weapons and we are the probable first target. We need to get him out before our civilians die.
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The oil argument is a poor attempt at diverting the true reason why we must do what we have to do for the good of our country and our allies. Not to mention freeing the Iraqi people from the horror that they know as Saddam.
If oil was our only reason for this then why oh why haven\'t we just gone in and taken them at will. We could certainly take the whole region if we really wanted to. Why did we not take the oil fields during the first war?
Of course I am now going to be told we have a piss poor past in the region and on some level must take it until it hurts.
Ace
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Originally posted by project86
Guys like you and the rest of those who are so quick to judge the actions of the United States make me sick. The only cowards I see are those much like yourself who have decided to forget September 11th and all who died in the senseless attacks. I have not forgotten, nor will I undergo such a radical change of heart as I see so many “Americans” (if they can call themselves that) have. It’s pathetic when we as a nation cannot stand in unity against a tyrannical bully that has not only been a threat to other sistering nations but to his own people. But please, don’t let me be the one to turn your head to what is right.
Quick to judge?! The US bombed civilians over 50 years ago. Its not like it happened last week and I\'m jumping to conclusions. I just like bringing up the fact that the US was part of one of the worst terrorist attacks in history when people talk about moral and ethical stances against terrorism.
I have not forgotten September 11. In fact, I think that you have. No one, in the media or otherwise, has ever made the point that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. As a matter of fact 14 of the terrorists came from one of our "allies".
We are going to go to war. That much is obvious. People that protest for/against the war should know that people will die regardless of what we do.
BTW, You are pretty much a joke. Its people like you that I don\'t understand. You accept everything that the Govt. spoon feeds you and never speak up because you are blind patriots. The fact that I do live in the US gives me the right to talk shit about it. If you want a country where no one says anything bad then pack up your flag and move your stupid ass to Communist China.
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Originally posted by Titan
Thats the whole point. We are going to war with him because he does have the weapons and we are the probable first target. We need to get him out before our civilians die.
You much like our government have no concrete proof. The UN is a joke going about finding what they may have. Id support the US conducting searches themselves b/c I know they would pull all of the stops.
For those that say it isnt entirely or majorly about oil, then answer this logically. Why have we not taken a stronger stance against N.Korea then???
We KNOW they have the nukes, we also KNOW they can do some damage on the west coast, yet no talks of invading them.
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luckee, you have no proof that we are going to war because of oil so shut up. And we haven\'t taken a stance on NK because the US cannot afford to have two wars at a time. After our war with Iraq is over, we will shift attention to NK. We don\'t have the resources to take out Iraq\'s army and NK\'s army.
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Originally posted by Titan
luckee, you have no proof that we are going to war because of oil so shut up. And we haven\'t taken a stance on NK because the US cannot afford to have two wars at a time. After our war with Iraq is over, we will shift attention to NK. We don\'t have the resources to take out Iraq\'s army and NK\'s army.
Your level of intelligence and maturity is starting to show as usual.
In your eloquent words.. we dont have proof it isnt about oil, so shut up.....
You\'re right..we only know NK has them and can actually hit us, yet we dont even know for sure if Saddam has them.
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The US bombed civilians over 50 years ago. Its not like it happened last week and I\'m jumping to conclusions. I just like bringing up the fact that the US was part of one of the worst terrorist attacks in history when people talk about moral and ethical stances against terrorism.
i PRAY you are not referring to hiroshimo and nagasaki
if so, yer credibility goes right out the window
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I\'m sorry about that. I was going to delete it and forgot. Sorry about that. But you are right in that post (besides the part about telling me to shut up :) ). I do believe we are rushing into this war. I believe we should go to war, but after the inspectors find any threats (which things are turning up).
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Guys, Guys, Guys........
I gave up with this shit. Well, not really but my opinions aren\'t going to change anything. Which that goes completely against to what this country is supposed to stand for. People choose what this country does. Never have I heard Bush or any of his Nuke Squad mention anything about the public opinion, what the people want, or what they think. Sure, there have been polls that say that most Americans want war, yet those polls aren\'t valid. Unless they go around and interview every single person living in this country, those kind of polls do not matter.
I know some of you might say, "Well you\'re opinions don\'t matter b/c they have no and we are fighting for freedom, REMEMBER 9/11!!! REMEMBER!!!!
Sure, Remember 9/11. Wasn\'t the government urging us to put that behind us? Yet, every day we are being reminded? What happened happened. We can\'t change the past. But we can change the future. Going to war with a country that supposedly has Nukes isn\'t very smart. They have done NOTHING to the US. They have many times said they have no kind of weapons, sure they\'re not very trustworthy, but where would this world go if there is no trust? The US just keeps pushing at them, claiming they must be disarmed, they want a war with no proof or evidence. Besides Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11.
Osama still living. Probably living in Beverly Hills with his 19 wifes. Washing himself with US dollars. While shooting some bald eagles right in front of the FBI offices. Maybe, he even took time to walk into UN and plant a bomb in every seat, he might of taken a nap in there too. I hope he was nice enough to say bye to the security guards. He probably went out with GWB daughter, slammed her a couple of times and got her back home on his Stretched Escalade that says, "Osama riding in here". People have probably reported sightings of Osama, yet the US government, the same smart people that could of prevented 9/11 or at least tried to, they have yet to approve of such evidence. A week after the UN blows, they finally realize what those people said was true. They will probably want to start a war with Russia b/c they have some kind of new weapon that doesn\'t exist, yet they will be very sure of it........
My point?
Osama still living, NK still threatening, Hussain still rejecting, Bush still being a dumbass.
But, we can\'t "Misunderestimate" Bush...
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Dont take out the oil equation here. Remember Panama, Grenada and many other little adventures? Where the heck was the CIAs gurus when 911 occured? Asleep? There is more.
Here is a thought about the suicide bombers. They are told to strap on a bomb and wander into a bus or public area and kill themselves. Easy no trial no punishment(at least from man) and no inprisonment with a promise they will spend eternity with a bunch of virgins.
Who gives these orders? The likes of Islamic Bin laden? Its always young men who carry out this maddness. My question would be if I am ordered by a Bin Laden to kill myself for the cause is....How the hell did you get to be old?
Who is the real coward here?
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so here\'s the real question if bush is such a "dumbass"
wtf would u guys do if u sat in his chair?
thats right, not a damn thing
easy to take shots from watching in the stands
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Shit tell the sucker to give me a chance. I know I won\'t get my priorities ****ed up and won\'t get the US destroyed.
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:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by mm
i PRAY you are not referring to hiroshimo and nagasaki
if so, yer credibility goes right out the window
Did you read the start of the thread? ;)
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no, why would i do that?
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Because he was obviously referring to Hiroshimo and Nagasaki, based on a previous statement he had made.
Sheesh, wasting all our time just because you\'re too lazy to read an entire thread, god forbid. ;):p
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lazy? nope, just unmotivated
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I\'m sure that excuse will work for the millions of unemployed people when it comes time to get their unemployment benefits renewed ;)
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actually, i\'m sure it does
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Originally posted by mm
i PRAY you are not referring to hiroshimo and nagasaki
if so, yer credibility goes right out the window
How so?
Even if I didn\'t mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki it can still be argued that the US(like every empire before it) was built on "terrorism"
terrorism
the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.
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US built on terrorism?
lol, i\'m not even gonna bother replying
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Originally posted by Gohan
...it can still be argued that the US(like every empire before it) was built on "terrorism"
Gohan = ignorant
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thank you, i didn\'t want to have to say it
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Originally posted by mm
thank you, i didn\'t want to have to say it
No prob. I had a bit of a bout with Gohan earlier and her certainly proved his ignorance then as he is doing so now.
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I truly believe our school system is the cause for all this wacky US sentiment.
Ace
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Nagasaki and Hiroshima were chosen because the Japanese wouldn\'t surrender... after that they did, they were big cities and they got the point across.
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Originally posted by Titan
Laden is a coward. If he wasn\'t a coward, he\'d take his army and fight us like men.
There is a difference in being a coward and being smart.
As for Hiroshima and Nagasaki incidents, that is terrorism. Doing something to put fear in others in an effort force them to recognize and comply with your objectives is terrorism.
terrorism-The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
From http://www.dictionary.com
Notice it says "unlawful use"
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We are doomed!
Ace
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clowd, it\'s sad someone of age would consider what happened in nagasaki and hiroshimo "terrorism" and put it in the same class as what happened on 9/11
seriously, get a clue
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Originally posted by Clowd
There is a difference in being a coward and being smart.
As for Hiroshima and Nagasaki incidents, that is terrorism. Doing something to put fear in others in an effort force them to recognize and comply with your objectives is terrorism.
terrorism-The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
From http://www.dictionary.com
Notice it says "unlawful use"
Some of you keep mentioning Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those were not the only cities attacked by the Allies. Just about every German city was bombed in WW2. Is that terrorism? Those cities had factories that built war machines for the Nazis. Hiroshima and Nagasaki also had naval bases as well as war factories. The two bombs were necessary since Japan was not willing to allow a ground invasion from the Allies. When they realized that ground invasion was not necessary at all.....they surrendered. Also, Russia declared war on Japan. And they feared Russian occupation more than US occupation.
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yeah, morons might as well call pearl harbor terrorism
:eek:
pathetic
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Originally posted by Clowd
terrorism-The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Notice it says "unlawful use"
Sarcasm is a show of ignorance. In this matter my friend you might want to understand what it means to walk a mile in a mans shoes befor you critisize the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I don\'t think that any man took pleasure in that decision. Besides, in war it is either them or us and we will do what it takes to be the last man standing just as any other nation would.
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Originally posted by project86
Sarcasm is a show of ignorance. In this matter my friend you might want to understand what it means to walk a mile in a mans shoes befor you critisize the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I don\'t think that any man took pleasure in that decision. Besides, in war it is either them or us and we will do what it takes to be the last man standing just as any other nation would.
I wasn\'t intending to be sarcastic. I said notice the unlawful part because it tells you whether Hiroshima was an act of terrorism or not. If you think what the U.S. did was lawful then it wasnt terrorism. If you think it was unlawful, as I do, then it is terrorism. The bombs were unecessary, Japan was already defeated. So the U.S. committed a terrorist attack to intimidate Japan into surrendering. I\'d rather not use the word terrorist but what they did matches the definition. So for the people who think the bomb was unlawful, theres nothing wrong with calling what they did an act of terrorism.
btw, I\'m not comparing/connecting this to 9-11, sorry if I sent that idea out somehow.
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The bombs were unecessary, Japan was already defeated.
you have absolutely NO idea what yer saying, and it\'s downright offensive
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Originally posted by mm
you have absolutely NO idea what yer saying, and it\'s downright offensive
Ditto!
The bombs were unecessary, Japan was already defeated.
My only mistake was commenting on clowds\' post thinking he had some sense of knowledge on the subject. However, I was wrong.
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lol
I\'ve just copied and pasted what Dwight D. Eisenhower said about the use of the bomb...lol I guess he didnt have much knowledge of the subject
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sigh.....
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Originally posted by Clowd
lol
I\'ve just copied and pasted what Dwight D. Eisenhower said about the use of the bomb...lol I guess he didnt have much knowledge of the subject
There are words to describe people like yourself Clowd. One of them that comes to mind is “ignorant”. Be sure to cut and paste that one ‘kay?
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I\'m still waiting to be proven why I am so ignorant of this subject and why what I said isnt true.
I guess its easier to resort to insults
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Originally posted by Clowd
I\'m still waiting to be proven why I am so ignorant of this subject and why what I said isnt true.
I guess its easier to resort to insults
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Clowd
I guess its easier to resort to insults
Thats what they do best when they cant handle an opinion different from their own.
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Originally posted by luckee
Thats what they do best when they cant handle an opinion different from their own.
Yeah, I know! Why do liberals always do that? :)
Ace
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different opinion?
or flat out ignorant one?
some people should just stick to videogames
honestly, i\'m still waiting for him to copy and paste to tell me that pearl harbor was an act of terrorism. or that the war of 1812 was won by terrorists
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I\'ll do what Gohan did and just take my leave
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Originally posted by Clowd
I\'ll do what Gohan did and just take my leave
Works for me.:o
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you don\'t have to leave
just tell me how pearl harbor was a terroristic act, and i\'ll STFU
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I dont think it is a terrorist act
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Originally posted by Clowd
There is a difference in being a coward and being smart.
As for Hiroshima and Nagasaki incidents, that is terrorism. Doing something to put fear in others in an effort force them to recognize and comply with your objectives is terrorism.
terrorism-The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
From http://www.dictionary.com
Notice it says "unlawful use"
Are you stupid? Terrorism is much different than acts of war. The atomic bombs were acts of war. It was perfectly legal. And we did it to end world war 2, not to put fear in the Japanese. We were bombing them into a surrender, which worked.
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ok clowd, if pearl harbor wasnt a terroristic act, how can you call hiroshino and nagasaki terroristic acts?
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Originally posted by Titan
Are you stupid? Terrorism is much different than acts of war. The atomic bombs were acts of war. It was perfectly legal. And we did it to end world war 2, not to put fear in the Japanese. We were bombing them into a surrender, which worked.
Clowd\'s reply=Read Titans title
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Acts of war?
Terrorism?
Same shit. Same deal. People die right?
War is nothing but a disagreement between two countries that decide to send other people to kill other people that they don\'t like while the big dawgs in the government sit back and send orders. Pearl Harbor can be a terrorist attack. It wasn\'t called for. There wasn\'t a war. There was no reason for the attack, except they just didn\'t like the US. Same deal with 9/11, wasn\'t called for, there wasn\'t a war going on, and there was also no reason for the attacks.
I wonder how the US is going to end this war?
Bio-weapon, or maybe a couple of more nukes.
They dropped bombs on a city full of innocent people damn it. That\'s terrorism, you don\'t need to be in a ****ing war in order to call the mass murder of people a Lawful act. Those bombs were not needed. If the US was so almighty they would of fought the battle till\' those countries would of surrendered peacefully.
The US just wanted to test some new toys. I\'ve read on this website that they had purposely not bombed b/c,
"The assessment of the atomic bomb damage would not be confused by having to eliminate previous incendiary or high explosive damage."
So in other words, they would be able to tell exactly how much damage it did.
Ohh Titan, Why did the Japenese surrender then? B/c they were defeated? Or b/c they were scared out of their mind by the bombings and did not want to be attacked again?
http://history1900s.about.com/library/prm/blbombthatended3.htm
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Originally posted by Clowd
Clowd\'s reply=Read Titans title
Why thanks clowd, I am pretty cool :cool: And do you have anything intelligent to say or just a really stupid response?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Ohh Titan, Why did the Japenese surrender then? B/c they were defeated? Or b/c they were scared out of their mind by the bombings and did not want to be attacked again?
Because they were defeated. We even set up a new government in there and they\'ve been doing great ever since :)
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Originally posted by project86
You and mm are both idiots if you believe that the US was not built on terrorism.
Seriously, get your heads out of your asses. Turn of Fox News for a second and pay attention.
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sigh.....
i wish i could delete the two posts aboce this one, and act like i never read such blatant .......
when did i say america wasnt built on terrorism? (which is wasnt)
you dont have the tell the traces of cherokee blood in my body what happened 200 years ago, and whether or not it was "terrorism"
it\'s funny, you tell us to get our heads out of our asses, and yer the one watching fox news , lol
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Explain further please.
Ace
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Acts of war?
Terrorism?
Same shit. Same deal. People die right?
No. Its not the same thing.
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EXACTLY!
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An "act of war" is is a deliberate attack on military facilities and/or military officials.
Just because the attacks on Hiroshima/Nagasaki ended the awar does not mean they were acts of war. They were deliberate attacks on civilian targets. That is terrorism and, under current international law, illegal. We scared them into submitting.
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Let me learn from you. How has the US built itself on terror.
Ace
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It was built on murder, thievery, and slavery.
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So it\'s fair to say that you are ashamed to be an American.
Ace
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I don\'t understand why everyone always has to bring up the U.S. was built on all these blah blah blah... It really doesn\'t matter now at all.
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Originally posted by Ace
So it\'s fair to say that you are ashamed to be an American.
Ace
At some times, yes. Most others, Im quite proud.
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It was built on murder, thievery, and slavery.
show me a country that wasnt
and slavery? do you know who started and maintained the slave trade?
They were deliberate attacks on civilian targets. We scared them into submitting.
do you find this shit on google and copy and paste it here?
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btw, when i said i copied and pasted what Eisenhower said I didnt actually find it on the Internet and copy and paste it I had read it some years ago..
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Originally posted by mm
show me a country that wasnt
and slavery? do you know who started and maintained the slave trade?
I never said it was or wasnt. I was replying to the *built on terrorism* comments.
And yea..the pale faces were the ring leaders with the darkies of africa assisting heavily.
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assisting?
the "darkies" couldnt fill the boats with thier own children fast enough
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I said assisting heavily..not just assisting. There is a difference.
Thats also not always how it was anyway.
What point are you trying to make?
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Who died during 9/11?
Innocent people, that were around at the wrong time.
Who died during the legal mass murder in japan?
Innocent people, that just happened to live there.
They\'re both acts of terror. They both scared the shit out of people. They both were done to show somebody else what they\'re capable off.
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Whoa. The amount of ignorance and hate in this thread is amazing. I don\'t feel like responding to every reply here since, I\'d be here all day.
First, let me just say that America wasn\'t perfect. I know America did a lot of wrong things (forcing Indians off their land, slavery, etc.). However, that was a long time ago. And CERTAINLY, nothing to do with what is happening now, or the people living today.
Not to mention, slavery was a worldwide practiced (America didn\'t "invade" a nation and enslaved the people, Americans [as well as the British, France, and other nations] bought their slaves from African), and in fact, is still going on today in certain parts of Africa. This isn\'t solely an "American" phenomina.
And again, NONE of this deals with the current people no matter what Al Sharpton or a Jesse Jackson says.
First, the definition of terrorism according to Merriam-Webster Online...
Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: \'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Date: 1795
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
- ter·ror·ist /-&r-ist/ adjective or noun
- ter·ror·is·tic /"ter-&r-\'is-tik/ adjective
Now, you can argue
I can see where you may have gotten this idea that bombing Japan was "terrorism". But if you are going to go that far, then wouldn\'t Pearl Harbor be terrorism as well (they tried to make sure that America won\'t get into war by bombing the US. The end result was the opposite. But wasn\'t that the point of Pearl Harbor)? Since you say that this isn\'t terrorism, then what makes what we did in Japan terrorism?
Also, we WERE in a state of war with Japan. Japan refused to surrender even AFTER the first bomb was dropped. It wasn\'t until the second bomb did Japan realize that it wasn\'t a one time thing and the threat of total annilation was real.
Also, there is an arguement number of people who died by bombing of conventional weapons, which the US would\'ve used if it didn\'t use nuclear weapons, would\'ve been WORSE for the Japanese then the two nukes used in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. 100,000 people alone died in the Tokyo raid. If we had ground troops as well as firebombing, not only will it have put US troops at risk, but so are many more Japanese who, due to their pride and stubborn behavior, were unwilling to surrounder even though for all intent and purpose, the war was over. Now, whether or not the bombs were the best best is unknown since we don\'t know what would\'ve happen afterwards.
Its nice that we now can debate it now. But try to put yourself in President Truman shoes and see how easy that question is.
Also, we didn\'t stay in Japan did we? We left after we help rebuild the nation. Now, Japan is one of the greatest nations in the world. One less point for Imperialism.
Oh, and attacking civilians, you tell this to the French, the Germans, the British, the Russians, and any other nation involved during WWII about attacking civilians, and you will get your ass kicked. I don\'t see the Nazis caring about civilian targets. Heck, even the Japanese didn\'t care about civilian targets during WWII. People seem to forget, war is hell. People die. Yes, civilian deaths is horrible. But for evil dictators, they don\'t care.
And this is talking about a 50 year war. In fact, many of your precious laws came after WWII when it comes to warfare, in the attempt to fight a "civilized" war if there is such a thing. Since then, especially after that failure Vietnam, America has tried to limit civilian causilties in any war that we get involved. IF we go into Iraq, you actually think the US will carpet bomb villiages? :rolleyes:
Speaking of which, there are stories of Iraqis torturing POWs. Funny. Where was the outrage over their suffering (especially since, isn\'t Iraq violating the Geneva Convention here)? And Iraq using chemical weapons against its own people, isn\'t that illegal too? How come the World Court hasn\'t charged Saddam with crimes against humanity?
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Originally posted by The Hurricane
Nagasaki and Hiroshima were chosen because the Japanese wouldn\'t surrender... after that they did, they were big cities and they got the point across.
True, however that was not the only motivation. Yes Japan was still trying to hold out and deal as much pain as they could when the US invaded.(they also had secret weapons to use, like jet aircraft) Estimates of perhaps a million American casuaties was forecasted. The island was made into one large booby trap with millions of home guard ready to die and take Americans with them. They would have made Vietnam look like a picnic.
Secondly and little broadcasted was the main threat of the Soviet Union invading and taking control of the islands themselves still hurting over the loss of territory during thier earlier war with Japan. The Soviets could have thrown millions into harms way and not regret it at all(Stalin was a butcher). The US would have none of this.
The bombs were more than a tool to get Japan to surrender. They were also used to show the world in paticular Stalin our capabilties and to save American lives. Send a message. The B29 raids did more damage to Japanese cities than both bombs could have ever done.. We basicly bombed them into the stone age and set the largest fire storm ever.
We did not have to use the bombs because Japan had ceased to exist as a real threat. Thier ability to make war was no longer a factor. We could have sent Superfortresses over every day for years and not lost any troops but the Soviets were not going to wait that long. Like Hitler many Japanese would rather see Japan destroyed than givin up. Many did not.
It was either the bombs or massive American casuaties or a communist Japan. Stalin would have been in control of Japan and what would that have done to world peace?
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And Stalin was respondsible for millions of his own people deaths as well as submission of uprisings in the other nations he took over due to his paranord behavior, and failed Communist polices. Imagine what he would have done to Japan then.
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Originally posted by jiggs
True, however that was not the only motivation. Yes Japan was still trying to hold out and deal as much pain as they could when the US invaded.(they also had secret weapons to use, like jet aircraft) Estimates of perhaps a million American casuaties was forecasted. The island was made into one large booby trap with millions of home gaurd ready to die and take Americans with them. They would have made Vietnam look like a picnic.
Secondly and little broadcasted was the main threat of the Soviet Union invading and taking control of the islands themselves still hurting over the loss of territory during thier earlier war with Japan. The Soviets could have thrown millions into harms way and not regret it at all(Stalin was a butcher). The US would have none of this.
The bombs were more than a tool to get Japan to surrender. They were also used to show the world in paticular Stalin our capabilties and to save American lives. Send a message. The B29 raids did more damage to Japanese cities than both bombs could have ever done.. We basicly bombed them into the stone age and set the largest fire storm ever.
We did not have to use the bombs because Japan had ceased to exist as a real threat. Thier ability to make war was no longer a factor. We could have sent Superfortresses over every day for years and not lost any troops but the Soviets were not going to wait that long. Like Hitler many Japanese would rather see Japan destroyed than givin up. Many did not.
It was either the bombs or massive American casuaties or a communist Japan. Stalin would have been in control of Japan and what would that have done to world peace?
I read that in a website!!
I was going to mention it, but I tought people were going to call me "ignorant" b/c it sounds like a Conspiracy theory...I guess not!!
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And IMO, those "Conspiracy throries", still good reason to bomb Japan if it is all true. If Japan was controlled by Russia, and in turn, a communist country, an enemy of the West (not just the US, but the Free Democractic Europe as well) the nation of Japan would never be as great (economic, cultural, etc.) as it is today.
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Originally posted by Simchoy
And IMO, those "Conspiracy throries", still good reason to bomb Japan if it is all true. If Japan was controlled by Russia, and in turn, a communist country, an enemy of the West (not just the US, but the Free Democractic Europe as well) the nation of Japan would never be as great (economic, cultural, etc.) as it is today.
Yeah, Yeah. I like conspiracy theories, that\'s one of the things that makes this country so damn popular. Ohh yeah, so does freedom.
Can you imagine if Japan was communist, they would of kept the PS2 all to themselves!!! Bastards!!! Let\'s bomb them again!!
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IMO, if the Soviets got control of Japan, I don\'t think the people would have been able to handle that. Even if they did, IF it was a Soviet state, they still would have become independent and would struggle like Kazachstan and the Chez (sp) Republic. It was better that the US set up a democracy there and helped to nerture it and get out some years later. Funny how Japan was an empire for thousands of years, then after two atomic bombs, they adopt democracy and they have little to no trouble with it. Maybe the US can do something like that in Iraq or the middle east and make the MidEast very productive. Its something very interesting to think about.
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Originally posted by Simchoy
(they tried to make sure that America won\'t get into war by bombing the US. The end result was the opposite.
I thought I read somewhere they bombed pearl harbor b/c they were pissed off at the US due to sanctions and oceanic blockades.
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The attack on Pearl Harbor was indeed the result of American sanctions. The main reason for the attack was steel and oil. The Japan high command knew war with the US would come eventually. They also knew a powerfull pacific US Navy would threaten thier holdings. Primarily the oil fields in Indonesia.
Thier goal was not to defeat the US with one strike but to cripple the Pacific Fleet long enough to solidifiy the grip in the Pacific and Southeast Asia. The Japanese Knew they could not compete with US industry mainly US steel. Without US steel they had no chance to surpass prouduction that the US could acheive and without oil and steel they were doomed.
They knew they had awakened a sleeping giant.
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Originally posted by Simchoy
Whoa. The amount of ignorance and hate in this thread is amazing. I don\'t feel like responding to every reply here since, I\'d be here all day.
First, let me just say that America wasn\'t perfect. I know America did a lot of wrong things (forcing Indians off their land, slavery, etc.). However, that was a long time ago. And CERTAINLY, nothing to do with what is happening now, or the people living today.
Not to mention, slavery was a worldwide practiced (America didn\'t "invade" a nation and enslaved the people, Americans [as well as the British, France, and other nations] bought their slaves from African), and in fact, is still going on today in certain parts of Africa. This isn\'t solely an "American" phenomina.
And again, NONE of this deals with the current people no matter what Al Sharpton or a Jesse Jackson says.
I agree that they have nothing to do with whats going on today. I just don\'t like that people try to take the moral high ground when it comes to terrorism and the war in Iraq. Saddam is an evil man and needs to be removed. Still, everything that everyone denounces Hussein for has been done, to an extent, at one time or another by the US.
Originally posted by Simchoy First, the definition of terrorism according to Merriam-Webster Online...
Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: \'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Date: 1795
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
- ter·ror·ist /-&r-ist/ adjective or noun
- ter·ror·is·tic /"ter-&r-\'is-tik/ adjective
Now, you can argue
I can see where you may have gotten this idea that bombing Japan was "terrorism". But if you are going to go that far, then wouldn\'t Pearl Harbor be terrorism as well (they tried to make sure that America won\'t get into war by bombing the US. The end result was the opposite. But wasn\'t that the point of Pearl Harbor)? Since you say that this isn\'t terrorism, then what makes what we did in Japan terrorism?
Also, we WERE in a state of war with Japan. Japan refused to surrender even AFTER the first bomb was dropped. It wasn\'t until the second bomb did Japan realize that it wasn\'t a one time thing and the threat of total annilation was real.
Also, there is an arguement number of people who died by bombing of conventional weapons, which the US would\'ve used if it didn\'t use nuclear weapons, would\'ve been WORSE for the Japanese then the two nukes used in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. 100,000 people alone died in the Tokyo raid. If we had ground troops as well as firebombing, not only will it have put US troops at risk, but so are many more Japanese who, due to their pride and stubborn behavior, were unwilling to surrounder even though for all intent and purpose, the war was over. Now, whether or not the bombs were the best best is unknown since we don\'t know what would\'ve happen afterwards.
Its nice that we now can debate it now. But try to put yourself in President Truman shoes and see how easy that question is.
The fact that we deliberately attacked large civilian cities, with the most powerful weapon at the time, to scare them into submission was terrorism by definition. Japan wasn\'t trying to scare us during Pearl Harbor. They were declaring war. Still thats how I see it. I can also see how you and others would look at it as terrorism, though. We\'ll just have to let that one go.
Originally posted by SimchoyAlso, we didn\'t stay in Japan did we? We left after we help rebuild the nation. Now, Japan is one of the greatest nations in the world. One less point for Imperialism.
We didn\'t just help them rebuild. We fashioned them in our own image. Take a look at their government structure and their "constitution".
Japan, right now, is one of the strongest nations in the world(economically). Yet, they don\'t really have any "power" on the global scale. I don\'t feel like getting into the whole "imperialism" thing though. The people in this thread already think I\'m a pinko liberal. I don\'t want to push them over the edge. :D
Originally posted by Simchoy Oh, and attacking civilians, you tell this to the French, the Germans, the British, the Russians, and any other nation involved during WWII about attacking civilians, and you will get your ass kicked. I don\'t see the Nazis caring about civilian targets. Heck, even the Japanese didn\'t care about civilian targets during WWII. People seem to forget, war is hell. People die. Yes, civilian deaths is horrible. But for evil dictators, they don\'t care.
Again, I\'m not saying that NO ONE else has ever killed civilians. I\'m just pointing out that RARELY do nations deliberately attack civilians and I\'m trying to bring attention(however misplaced it is) to some of the US\' past transgressions.
Originally posted by Simchoy And this is talking about a 50 year war. In fact, many of your precious laws came after WWII when it comes to warfare, in the attempt to fight a "civilized" war if there is such a thing. Since then, especially after that failure Vietnam, America has tried to limit civilian causilties in any war that we get involved. IF we go into Iraq, you actually think the US will carpet bomb villiages? :rolleyes:
I know that the laws are somewhat recent laws. What I was trying to show was that many of the things that the US is denouncing Iraq for(breaking of internation treaties/law, crimes against humanity) are also things in our past. I know that the US is not going to go out and bomb civilians(purposely). I think you are misinterpreting my intentions in this thread.
Originally posted by Simchoy There are stories of Iraqis torturing POWs. Funny. Where was the outrage over their suffering (especially since, isn\'t Iraq violating the Geneva Convention here)? And Iraq using chemical weapons against its own people, isn\'t that illegal too? How come the World Court hasn\'t charged Saddam with crimes against humanity?
I know you don\'t think that POW\'s captured by the US are treated as well as your average inmate, do you? I have heard stories. Nothing as bad as what is probably going on in Iraq, still far from a walk in the park.
I agree, for the most part, with what you are saying. Still, I think either you are taking some of the things I said out of context or I didn\'t explain myself correctly.
Originally posted by Ace
So it\'s fair to say that you are ashamed to be an American.
Ace
I don\'t think you were speaking to me; but I\'ll answer anyway. I am not at all ashamed to be an American. I just think that some people take their American pride to far, almost to the point of drowning out anything negative.
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Originally posted by Gohan
The people in this thread already think I\'m a pinko liberal. I don\'t want to push them over the edge. :D
It wasn\'t just here in this thread that I figured you for a pinko...:D
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I just think that some people take their American pride to far, almost to the point of drowning out anything negative.
Funny, I see it in reverse. I see a lot of "America deserved 9/11" and I see and hear people protesting saying our president is more of a threat than the leader of Iraq. I can\'t believe there are some people who come close to apologizing for Saddam. It\'s very disturbing.
I am not blind to what we have done in the past, but I am nervous about what we are teaching in our schools. We seem to be teaching HATE AMERICA FIRST.
Ace
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Ok, that\'s it.
First off, if Saddam killed his own people. LET HIM DAMN IT!!
It\'s none of our business. If the people let him get away with such thing, they ohh well. The US can\'t stop everysingle war, b/c if they do, they get into a war themselves. Iraq wants to blow up Iran? Let them fight, if they really wanna fight.
What\'s up with you and schools. Schools teach us what the Gov. tells them to teach us. If you\'re saying the government tells the people to teach us to hate america, then who\'s fault is it?
It\'s like trying to split up a fight between to guys with knives, in the end you get stabbed yourself. To me GWB wants to go out a star. He wants to go down in history as the man that dethroned saddam. I can\'t blame him. Everyone wants to go out big. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, Osama is still alive, and they\'re not taking NK threats any seriously. Just like they didn\'t take the 9/11 threats that seriously, until california is blown out the map, then they\'ll start to worry.
One more thing, they blow up Japan, kill a bunch of people, destroyed their buildings..................then we helped them rebuild the country???
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The Iraq question is getting tiresome. Iraq is on the top of th list because of terrorism and the devastation of 9/11. We can disagree if it is true or not but that\'s why we are going to send Saddam off with a bang.
The schools are a liberal breeding ground. Schools are obviously not being told what to teach by evidence of the pablum being spewed here.
Gotta go.
More later.
Ace
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You know that\'s the only problem. You people are so extremely confident, ok I am too. But if that man really does have weapons of mass destruction, if there is a war, then sure as hell he is going to use them against the US soldiers. I don\'t really care about why or how. What bothers me is the super confidence of the US supremacy(sp?) that bothers me.
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the US military is THE force on the planet
this cannot be contested or questioned
now what they would resort to, to maintain this, is what scares me
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Iraq also has the most weapons and supports terrorism. It\'s no wonder Iraq is public enemy number one.
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http://www.ucomics.com/lacucaracha/2003/02/22/
I LOVE THE CUCARACHA!
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well now... we\'ve just gone insane haven\'t we?
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That would be one hell of a force. The whole world is crazy. Does Iraq have an Alamo?:D
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I hope you get the meaning to that. In the news it said that alot of people going to serve this country up in the other side of the world are of latin origin.
Haha, if Iraq doesn\'t stop being a bitch, im pretty sure they\'ll stick a CHIPOTLE up their ass. HAHA have you all seen that commercial from jack in the box?? HAHA it tripped me out.