PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: luckee on March 20, 2003, 06:14:54 PM
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Im taking this from somewhere else b/c it does make sense and raises some good points.
First and foremost, because of my views I don\'t consider myself anyless of an american. In fact, I consider myself MORE of an american.
People say that no matter what, the president should be shown a level and respect that\'s due to the position of being President, and that we shouldn\'t bad mouth and question what he is doing. But one of the beautiful things about this country is that at all times we SHOULD question the actions of the president! After all, he\'s OUR employee! We as tax payers and voters are his boss! He is supposed to answer to US! And for the simple fact that he is now putting the lives of american\'s fathers, mothers, brothers, and sisters on the line, not only should we question him, but we should also be heard! If you\'d take a closer look at this situation, the ones who are screaming that we should respect the president are the one who seemed to have no respect for Clinton during the Monica Lewinski scandal. Yeah, he cheated on his wife, but how does that affect the country? Does him shooting a load down some interns throat cut funding to Social Security? Does it raise taxes? NO! But for it, he had an intire country against him. An entire senate commitee was created just to see if he busted a nut with someone other than his wife! But through all this, President Clinton was shown no respect for being the president.
So when people (I\'m not naming names) say that you should have respect for the president and be happy with what he does, gi bacj to College and take some political sciences 101 and read up on history and find out what this country was started for!
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else." -Theodore Roosevelt
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Tha\'t right.
If we as citizens are supposed to respect and obey everything the President does no matter what, isn\'t that what Hussain is doing?!
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First of all Clinton got screwed (I could have used a better word) because he lied under oath. There were also so many other potential scandals floating around Clinton that you know that there was more than meets the eye.
The Scandals:
Whitewater
Cattlegate
Nannygate
Helicoptergate
Travelgate
Gennifer Flowersgate
Filegate
Vince Fostergate
I wonder where those Whitewater billing records came fromgate
Paula Jonesgate
Federal Building campaign phone callgate
Lincoln bedroomgate
White House coffeegate
Donations from convicted drug and weapons dealersgate
Buddhist Templegate
Web Hubbell hush moneygate
Lippogate
Chinese commiegate - Clinton was practically endorsed by red China Update!
Let\'s blame Kenneth Starrgate
Zippergate/interngate - the Lewinsky affair itself
Perjury and jobs for Lewinskygate - the aftermath
Willeygate
Web Hubbell prison phone callgate
Selling Military Technology to the Chinese Commiesgate
Coverup for our Russian Comrades as Wellgate
Wag-the-Dog-gate
Jaunita Broaddrick gate
PBS-gate
Email-gate
Vandalgate
Pardongate
Ace
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HEY!
Scandals and secrets is what this country is made of. Don\'t even disagree.
Who killed Kennedy?
For what reasons?
Nobody knows.....
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I\'m looking out for black helicopters as I type this.
Ace
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Never knew about all those scandals. I only knew about a couple. One being watergate and one being the one during the Reagan administration with the hostages in Iran.
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Its always a republican to bring the Clinton aspect into a thread it is not about.
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I\'m not part of any party. I\'m usually more for the independant party. We should do away with the party system. Too much curruption.
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Clinton was brought up in the original post. Questioning the president about war and Clinton and his only fault being a pig. I wanted to point out it was much more than a BJ in the Oval office, a place where most presidents show great respect.
Plus, I knew it would tweak you. :)
Ace
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Luckee, your point about bad mouthing the president is what makes america great. No one is saying people shouldn\'t voice their opinions about the war.
BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that we have chosen to go to war, to not stand up for the people fighting for your country is horrible. What\'s going on in San Fransisco is emberassing and I\'m glad they are giving it light coverage on the news. Screw those tree huggers. Support our friggen troops.
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Originally posted by videoholic
Luckee, your point about bad mouthing the president is what makes america great. No one is saying people shouldn\'t voice their opinions about the war.
BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that we have chosen to go to war, to not stand up for the people fighting for your country is horrible. What\'s going on in San Fransisco is emberassing and I\'m glad they are giving it light coverage on the news. Screw those tree huggers. Support our friggen troops.
I\'m fairly middle of the road when it comes to war, I don\'t support this one the way things stand at the moment but that\'s not to say I wouldn\'t have supported it in the future, I feel not every avenue was explored before doing the simplest thing, drop bombs. What you lot that are blind supporters of the US fail to understand is that they feel just as strongly as you BUT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION, they can\'t support the troops because it\'s not how they feel.
You won\'t be persuaded, neither will they, so you may as well accept it.
I don\'t support the war, I just wish them safety as to die for this would be the ultimate insult. My condolences, go out to the wives and families of the four US and eight UK soldiers killed in the helicopter crash and I hope this is the worst incident involving allied forces that we see.
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I just hate people who are aginast the war who have purely ignorant reasons like that i\'s for Oil. Or that he hasn\'t done anything lately.
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The argument that he hasn\'t done anything lately is perfectly valid, if they attacked straight after one of these acts of violence against his own people then I wouldn\'t complain. It\'s the sheer randomness of the war now, at this point that bothers me. You can\'t just hold grudges in modern politics, it has no place.
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Why in God\'s name do we need to wait until more of our people are killed to fight against this man.
He has biological and chemical weapons.
He is known to give money for suicide bombers.
He is known to gas his own people and there is absolutely no reason to believe he wouldn\'t use the gas against the US.
He obviously has lied about everything since they have dispersed chemical weapons to his military, he has launched SCUDS, has has lit over 30 oil fields on fire. ALL of which he said he didn\'t have or wouldn\'t do.
This guy needs to be dealt with and I think we are going about it the right way.
Hopefully we won\'t lose any more men in the fight.
It seems that helicopters go down every fight we are in. I use to love flying in them. I have hundreds of hours, but man, out in the desert with all the wind and sand that\'s just not the way I\'d like to travel.
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Originally posted by videoholic
Why in God\'s name do we need to wait until more of our people are killed to fight against this man.
1)He has biological and chemical weapons.
2)He is known to give money for suicide bombers.
3)He is known to gas his own people and there is absolutely no reason to believe he wouldn\'t use the gas against the US.
He obviously has lied about everything since they have dispersed chemical weapons to his military, he has launched SCUDS, has has lit over 30 oil fields on fire. ALL of which he said he didn\'t have or wouldn\'t do.
This guy needs to be dealt with and I think we are going about it the right way.
Hopefully we won\'t lose any more men in the fight.
It seems that helicopters go down every fight we are in. I use to love flying in them. I have hundreds of hours, but man, out in the desert with all the wind and sand that\'s just not the way I\'d like to travel.
1) Unfortunately the inspectors were not allowed to finish their job so we can\'t prove that one.
2) So do many countries. The IRA spent years fundraising from normal people in the US. The money was turned into C4 and for 30 years killed and maimed UK citizens. Does that mean we should attack you? Like f*ck it does. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1563119.stm
3) The only reason he\'ll gas US troops is because they are going to kill him. In non-war times he wouldn\'t dare, now he may do.
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Originally posted by Green Meanie
1) Unfortunately the inspectors were not allowed to finish their job so we can\'t prove that one.
Twelve years not enough? How long should we let Mr. Blix prove he has no backbone?
3) The only reason he\'ll gas US troops is because they are going to kill him. In non-war times he wouldn\'t dare, now he may do.
You know this for a fact? Saddam wouldn\'t dare hand out some chemicals for terrorist use?
Ace
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How would you describe \'having a backbone\'?
Is it the ability to blindly pull a trigger?
He\'s got more of a backbone than us, he\'s been walking around inside a country who\'s leaders would happily kill him without ever showing fear.
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Originally posted by Ace
Twelve years not enough? How long should we let Mr. Blix prove he has no backbone?
You know this for a fact? Saddam wouldn\'t dare hand out some chemicals for terrorist use?
Ace
How the hell does Bush know he DIDN\'T destroy the freaking weapons during those twelve years?
WE didn\'t choose to go to war, WE didn\'t approve of anything, there was no vote about it. So WE didn\'t choose to do anything. BUSH did. Powell did.
Im 100% against this war. Does that mean I hope all of our soldiers die? Does that mean I automatically wish the worst for them? NO and NO. I don\'t think they should be there in the first place.
"SHOCK AND AWE"
Im shocked that they are proud of destroying another countries capital buidings, and in the end we\'re going to end up rebuilding them anyway. Im shocked that they even did this, they said on the news Coalition forces were advancing with no problems.
Im in awe that they even chose to call it something so evil. "Woooowww look at them they\'re wasting millions on dollars on blowing up buildings and people"
They must be pretty proud of what they\'re doing to call it such a thing. Im pretty sure they\'re hoping North Korea and all the Anti-American countries are watching and are in awe. To me, this "shock and Awe" crap is using Iraqi people and buildings to show other countries what will happen if you don\'t follow and praise the US military and Government.
So far no Chemical weapons have been found, no Nukes, no Scuds. The scuds that were supposedly fired turned out to be other kinds of missiles.
Also, in the news they mention that only a small percentage of the refugees are from iraq. The rest that came from iraq are of other nationalities. DO those people WANT to be "free". Did anybody care to ask them? Are they ready to be free? Yes, they have no choice but to listen to their leader or else. But look at us, we\'re defending our troops, we got their backs. Why? Because they\'re US troops. They\'re OUR troops. Im pretty sure the Iraqi people feel the same way. They\'re ready to die for their country, even if it means going back to the way it was. They\'re proud of being Iraqis, they\'re proud people, Just like us. Talking about bringing freedom to them and ignoring how this war will affect them is just dumb.
If this isn\'t about oil, What is going to happen to the oil? Who will control it?
The US of course, Who is setting up the dummy government for now? The US. Saying that the Oil is Iraqs most valuable income source is right, saying that they will prosper from is wrong, im sure we will see the US sucking from that oil like if it was nectar.
Bush\'s father sold the supplies to the Iraqi government back in the day when they were friends, now his son is "fighting" to get rid of them. Irony.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
How the hell does Bush know he DIDN\'T destroy the freaking weapons during those twelve years?
WE didn\'t choose to go to war, WE didn\'t approve of anything, there was no vote about it. So WE didn\'t choose to do anything. BUSH did. Powell did.
Im 100% against this war.
They must be pretty proud of what they\'re doing to call it such a thing. Im pretty sure they\'re hoping North Korea and all the Anti-American countries are watching and are in awe. To me, this "shock and Awe" crap is using Iraqi people and buildings to show other countries what will happen if you don\'t follow and praise the US military and Government.
So far no Chemical weapons have been found, no Nukes, no Scuds. The scuds that were supposedly fired turned out to be other kinds of missiles.
Also, in the news they mention that only a small percentage of the refugees are from iraq. The rest that came from iraq are of other nationalities. DO those people WANT to be "free". Did anybody care to ask them? Are they ready to be free? Yes, they have no choice but to listen to their leader or else. But look at us, we\'re defending our troops, we got their backs. Why? Because they\'re US troops. They\'re OUR troops. Im pretty sure the Iraqi people feel the same way. They\'re ready to die for their country, even if it means going back to the way it was. They\'re proud of being Iraqis, they\'re proud people, Just like us. Talking about bringing freedom to them and ignoring how this war will affect them is just dumb.
If this isn\'t about oil, What is going to happen to the oil? Who will control it?
The US of course, Who is setting up the dummy government for now? The US. Saying that the Oil is Iraqs most valuable income source is right, saying that they will prosper from is wrong, im sure we will see the US sucking from that oil like if it was nectar.
Bush\'s father sold the supplies to the Iraqi government back in the day when they were friends, now his son is "fighting" to get rid of them. Irony.
You still haven\'t proven you are capable of participating here. Look at your accusations, especially that last part about "our troops".
He didn\'t destroy those weapons - if he did why couldn\'t he have proven it? Its not like throwing out a bag of trash. Chemical weapons require specialized disposal which is documented. Really its not that hard.
We did chose to go to war. Congress authorized the bill after 9/11 - :rolleyes:
We all know you are preteen who is opposed to the war no disputing that.
As for finding chemical weapons... wait till the fighting is over and then make your claim.
The Iraqi people will control the oil. It is their oil and the Bush administration along with the rest of the allies have REPEATEDLY said this.
As for the rest of your tirade about "our troops" et al... maybe someone besides you can translate this for me as it is incoherent rambling.
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the thing we are all probably not taking into account is that the intelligence gathered from our ow is much different than what the inspectors get. The US probably has people on the inside, some maybe even close to President Huessein, hence the reason we were more than likely led to the Bunker where he was staying on night one of the bombing campaign. Having this intel is both good and bad. Good for the fact that we are sure we know what to look out ofr, and we have our people overseeing things from the inside to make sure that we are prepared for anything, bad because if we wanted to keep those people intact we would have a hard time doing so with that intel being broadcast to the masses. Once it hits the mainstream (even the UN) it would get back to the Iraqi government and someone would figure out who did what. So, it is a double edged sword because for the most part we can kind of push people in the right direction, but we can\'t really reveal anything in order to keep our intel alive and keep us from being blind as to what is happening in the government of Iraq.
Brad
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Also, one last part, the troops are going pretty easily through the terrain they are in, but all indications are that Baghdad and Kirkik is where the armies of Iraq are positioned. The spots they are bombing are Military compounds, comminications centers and Saddams personal palaces and offices. The Ministry of Defenses offices. Basically anything that is crippling their airforces, their ground forces, and their ability to continue to commincate ways of getting gathering their forces to mount attacks against our forces.
Brad
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
You still haven\'t proven you are capable of participating here. Look at your accusations, especially that last part about "our troops".
He didn\'t destroy those weapons - if he did why couldn\'t he have proven it? Its not like throwing out a bag of trash. Chemical weapons require specialized disposal which is documented. Really its not that hard.
We did chose to go to war. Congress authorized the bill after 9/11 - :rolleyes:
We all know you are preteen who is opposed to the war no disputing that.
As for finding chemical weapons... wait till the fighting is over and then make your claim.
The Iraqi people will control the oil. It is their oil and the Bush administration along with the rest of the allies have REPEATEDLY said this.
As for the rest of your tirade about "our troops" et al... maybe someone besides you can translate this for me as it is incoherent rambling.
Isn\'t that the reasons the inspectors were there in the first place?
Did they find anything? Did the US even let them finish their job?
NO NO NO
Yeah congress chose to go to war, I REMEMBER NOW!! They came by every house in the US and asked the people wether they approve or not. How could I forget that?
You\'re just saying what Bush and his unselfish, godly allies have said. The Bush administration says lots of things. Remember the fake "proof"?
We all know you\'re an old guy that is pro-war all the way. You love to call others names, and love to ramble on about how Great and Godly and Wise you are. So shut it.
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That thing about no scuds were fired was true at that point, but since then two have been found to have been fired against Kuwait. These were done today
Brad
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Watch the insults and I dont have to edit them and waste the rest of your post.
Titan: Sorry luckee. It hasn\'t been a good day for me at all. I\'m just a bit touchy now. But did you really have to take away my whole post?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Isn\'t that the reasons the inspectors were there in the first place?
Did they find anything? Did the US even let them finish their job?
NO NO NO
Yeah congress chose to go to war, I REMEMBER NOW!! They came by every house in the US and asked the people wether they approve or not. How could I forget that?
You\'re just saying what Bush and his unselfish, godly allies have said. The Bush administration says lots of things. Remember the fake "proof"?
We all know you\'re an old guy that is pro-war all the way. You love to call others names, and love to ramble on about how Great and Godly and Wise you are. So shut it.
Since when was it a prerequisite for the government to get approval by going door to door?? Even if they did you are a minor and don\'t have a say anyway - so STFU. You are living a very sheltered life and unfortunately in this case your inexperience and age show right through. Others such as Shockwaves, Titan, etc... who are around your age at least find points to debate on that are valid and get the respect they have earned by showing they have a brain. Not some dreamed up rules and laws you think should exist.
Out of all the anti war people here I don\'t really consider any un American except for you. You blindly hate the government and this country and that is my firm belief. Your numerous posts badmouth this country have said it all and it hasn\'t just been limited to Bush and the Iraq situation. As I said before stick to your fake girlfriends and the bling bling, because that is all you have...
Some people such as you refuse to believe the government period, not matter how much proof is presented. You shall be the first member I put on ignore. Not because we disagree, but because you don\'t have an intelligent point to make - regardless of your opinions.
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Hmmm
Giga 1- Mystiq- 0
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Since when was it a prerequisite for the government to get approval by going door to door?? Even if they did you are a minor and don\'t have a say anyway - so STFU. You are living a very sheltered life and unfortunately in this case your inexperience and age show right through. Others such as Shockwaves, Titan, etc... who are around your age at least find points to debate on that are valid and get the respect they have earned by showing they have a brain. Not some dreamed up rules and laws you think should exist.
Out of all the anti war people here I don\'t really consider any un American except for you. You blindly hate the government and this country and that is my firm belief. Your numerous posts badmouth this country have said it all and it hasn\'t just been limited to Bush and the Iraq situation. As I said before stick to your fake girlfriends and the bling bling, because that is all you have...
Some people such as you refuse to believe the government period, not matter how much proof is presented. You shall be the first member I put on ignore. Not because we disagree, but because you don\'t have an intelligent point to make - regardless of your opinions.
Got me. I wouln\'t say hate, but I greatly dislike the Bush administration. Before all this happend, I was Pro-Bush before he got elected. He promised lots of things. He promised jobs, he promised a better way of life for the Mexican immigrants, it was going all good until 9/11 struck. I understand how that halted any kind of amnesty plan for the illegal Immigrants. Four weeks after 9/11 my two uncles were deported. Both of them had applied for citizenship, that didn\'t matter though. Both of my parents are illegal. This war stopped the whole legalization process all together. The Bush administration went as far as to threaten Fox about the situation. Some of his people said that if Mexico doesn\'t cooperate then they might face something like France is facing now.
Im not living in a dream world. I know what I say. If you take it as stupid shit. Fine by me. I never saw you try to argue the point about the inspectors not being left to do their job. How some of the "proof" the US presented was fake. I just try to make things as literal as I can.
Living in a dream world is believing everything somebody has to say just because of your pride. I don\'t believe Bush because to me he is a liar. He is willing to do whatever it takes to make things go his way. This whole war wouln\'t have happened if the US hadn\'t given them the weapons to begin with.
Hating the government and hating this country are two completely different things. I hate the government, I love this country. I love this country for what it has given me. I love this country for the things I have that I wouln\'t have never dreamed of having when I lived in Mexico. I never badmouthed this beautiful country, I badmouthed the people running it.
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Sirmystiq, things change after we are attacked. You need to understand that. Do you think Bush expected 9/11 (actually, he probably did but that\'s not the point) to happen? Do you think he wanted it? Stuff happens and things change. You ever get promised something but stuff came up? Same thing.
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I really wish people would quit bringing up that old argument of the US giving Iraq weapons...
Going by your logic, France is at fault for helping the US beat the British and becoming the great country it is today...
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I understand that. I understand why this war is going on. I already told my parents that im joining the Navy as soon as im out of high school. My mom wasn\'t very happy.
I just don\'t agree with what is going on. At first it didn\'t seem so bad, I was with Bush about going after Osama. But what he did with the UN, he didn\'t care about what the inspectors said. He didn\'t trust the inspectors. He wanted a war all along. Im glad that they\'re doing this to free the Iraqi people. It\'s just the fact that they keep saying things about WOMD and how Iraq is a threat with no back up. Until now, those scud missiles would of probably been found if the inspectors were given time. But none of that happened. If Bush is so inclined to free the whole world, he better go after Cuba next.
Ashford, the government gave all the weapons to Iraq. Even though Hussain had used chemical weapons during the Iran-Iraq war. Until then they didn\'t care. The other Bush administration back in the days, ignored the fact that Hussain had used some of his weapons of mass destruction and continued giving him loans and support. Until Iraq invaded Kuwait, the US and Iraq were buddy buddy. They didn\'t care about the freedom of the Iraqi people. Now they do. Are we in more of a threat now than we were back then?
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By the way he replied I am suspecting he isn\'t a US citizen himself. He said his parents are illegal aliens and he lived in Mexico...
Anyway, I am tired of debating the inspections. The war is what we need to be mindful of and all of our servicemen and women working to get the war over with as soon as possible.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
If Bush is so inclined to free the whole world, he better go after Cuba next.
Oh I could say something... I have had a few beers and I am so tempted... :p
but I won\'t ;)
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I understand that. I understand why this war is going on. I already told my parents that im joining the Navy as soon as im out of high school. My mom wasn\'t very happy.
Heh. I know the feeling. When I told my mom I wanted to go into the Air Force as a fighter pilot, she jumped out of her seat. She is trying to convice me to be a cargo pilot. Theres no fun in that. I also told her about me going into the Army if the Air Force doesn\'t work out and maybe using artillery. Samething happened then.
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Originally posted by Titan
Heh. I know the feeling. When I told my mom I wanted to go into the Air Force as a fighter pilot, she jumped out of her seat. She is trying to convice me to be a cargo pilot. Theres no fun in that. I also told her about me going into the Army if the Air Force doesn\'t work out and maybe using artillery. Samething happened then.
Go Airborne!!!! ;)
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Actually im a US citizen. I was born here in Dallas, TX. My parents moved to mexico were I grew up. When I was 9 we moved to Cali. Then about a year later we came back to settle here. So if you tought you had me by the balls and had even more of a reason to call me anti-american forget it.
I can\'t join the Air Force :(
I heard you need pefect vision to join that. So Navy is where is at.
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You only need perfect vision to fly. I\'ve got that but not sure about my extemely mild asthma. Last came a few years ago and may restrict me flying.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Actually im a US citizen. I was born here in Dallas, TX. My parents moved to mexico were I grew up. When I was 9 we moved to Cali. Then about a year later we came back to settle here. So if you tought you had me by the balls and had even more of a reason to call me anti-american forget it.
I can\'t join the Air Force :(
I heard you need pefect vision to join that. So Navy is where is at.
Nope wasn\'t going to comment on that... I was just curious. Anway, I am done here tonight - hopefully this war will be over quickly and we can stop talking about it. Oh and I just read the funniest post over in OT. Check Core\'s Subaru owner gets owned post... funny as hell. ;)