PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Unicron! on March 22, 2003, 11:32:05 PM
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1.Civilian territoreis are being bombarded everyday.Children, women and unarmed civilians are dead or carried to the hospitals.
2.The USA gives permission to Turkey to send army to attack North Iraq(where the Kurds are) in exchange of letting their air force to land and take off from Turkey\'s airports.
3.Disputes between countries of the European Union.
4.A war between Greece and Turkey could be likely
5.A spying U-2 has flown over Caucasus in Russia spying the territory.Russia is worried of a thread.
6.Muslims all over the world are swearing for revenge.A bomb attack in Saudi Arabia and a killing of an American and an English in Yemen is only the beginning.
More terrorism is awakening.
7.People all over the world are protesting against the war.That includes America and England.DROP BUSH, DONT DROP BOMBS!2 and a half million have protested in Europe yesterday)
8.Renegade soldiers after being sent to Iraq.
9.USA people being told lies and not shown the truth as it is.(I watched CNN International yesterday.They havent showed the whole truth or the truth or what exactly is happening outside america.AND NO!!IRAQUI\'S ARENT WELCOMING THE USA TROOPS!!AMERICAN SOLDIERS DIED!!THANK BUSH FOR THAT!!:rpissed: )
10.Yesterday I ve protested in Cyprus.With
Greeks and Cypriots, Palestinians and Iraquis were included.Iraqui\'s dont want to be bombed!!
Just some of the consequences and truths.
Bush has brought world order to the world.:(
Bush is smart.He doesnt watch TV to see whats happening in the world.He prefers reading books because he is smart and educated.NOT.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
7.People all over the world are protesting against the war.That includes America and England.DROP BUSH, DONT DROP BOMBS!2 and a half million have protested in Europe yesterday)
9.USA people being told lies and not shown the truth as it is.(I watched CNN International yesterday.They havent showed the whole truth or the truth or what exactly is happening outside america.AND NO!!IRAQUI\'S ARENT WELCOMING THE USA TROOPS!!AMERICAN SOLDIERS DIED!!THANK BUSH FOR THAT!!:rpissed: )
Im not gunna reply to most of them because i dont know enough and im not gunna start an arguement if i cant backup any statements.
7. boo-fricken-hoo. Where were all these people during desert storm? i say go back to ur fricken holes u came from. tired of these corney ass stupid chants. Noone wants an american soldier to die, but we dont put them through intensive training for nothing....their going to have to put their lives on the line at some point, tis why we have the strongest military.
9. You say that ou know everything? because ur not in america and see it in a different view? because different things are broadcasted on ur TELEVISON?? before you talk about who knows more and who doesnt, how bout all the sh*t the government doesnt release that would send people into mass histeria thinking were gunna be attacked every day. You can only imagine what they hear and cant give to the press.
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Originally posted by Viper_Fujax
Im not gunna reply to most of them because i dont know enough and im not gunna start an arguement if i cant backup any statements.
7. boo-fricken-hoo. Where were all these people during desert storm? i say go back to ur fricken holes u came from. tired of these corney ass stupid chants. Noone wants an american soldier to die, but we dont put them through intensive training for nothing....their going to have to put their lives on the line at some point, tis why we have the strongest military.
9. You say that ou know everything? because ur not in america and see it in a different view? because different things are broadcasted on ur TELEVISON?? before you talk about who knows more and who doesnt, how bout all the sh*t the government doesnt release that would send people into mass histeria thinking were gunna be attacked every day. You can only imagine what they hear and cant give to the press.
7.Tell that to a soldier who has done nothing so far than intensive training and then tell the same thing to the soldier in war.Most of them if not all went to the army with naivety.For work.Its in the war they wish they understood that earlier.And believe what you want.No matter if they are sent for a good cause or not they will never find out.
BTW:You dont have the strongest military because of intense training.You ve got the strongest military because of better technology.
9.Its not just MY television.I dont watch only what MY channels have to say.I watch MANY channels.I speak with people OUTSIDE my TV.I ve relatives who WORK in SA.I know people who LIVED in Iraq.What about u?Do u only watch american channels?
How about releasing that information and cause histeria?Atleast people will know the truth.For what they should fight for.Hah?Because you think the USA govrnment is the GOD of all governments you are 100% sure that the usa government knows a lot of sh*t "that would send people into mass histeria thinking were gunna be attacked every day."You live in a government that gives impressions. Yes I can imagine things and send them to the press if I want.I can even imagine that BUSH is the smartest person in the world.But whats the truth?
But I fear at the things the other countries dont know about America.
Because you live in an economically, technologically and militarily very powerfull country you think this USA government does things only for the good of the world?That they know everything?That they can choose what is right and what is wrong(Actually make people to believe)?
BTW:The world is already in histeria.
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I\'m surprised your list does not include the sky is falling.
Ace
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1.Civilian territoreis are being bombarded everyday.Children, women and unarmed civilians are dead or carried to the hospitals.
A) Not true. USA has gone to extreme lengths to have as few casualties as possible. It\'s a friggen war. The people knew we were coming in. BTW, people are in the hospitals every day. Just becaus eyou see someone lying in a bed with an IV in their arm, that doesn\'t mean it\'s war related.
2.The USA gives permission to Turkey to send army to attack North Iraq(where the Kurds are) in exchange of letting their air force to land and take off from Turkey\'s airports.
A) Are you on crack? There is no agreement. We were NEVER allowed to use their airbases. We were only allowed to use their airspace and we never did.
3.Disputes between countries of the European Union.
A) Yeah, that\'s the US\'s fault. Europe would be all rainbows and flowers if it wasn\'t for the US.
4.A war between Greece and Turkey could be likely
A) Yeah, chalk that one up to US as well.
5.A spying U-2 has flown over Caucasus in Russia spying the territory.Russia is worried of a thread.
A)Yeah, Russia is worried. Send me some links.
6.Muslims all over the world are swearing for revenge.A bomb attack in Saudi Arabia and a killing of an American and an English in Yemen is only the beginning.
More terrorism is awakening.
A) When haven\'t muslims sweared revenge for something they don\'t like. I don\'t see the people of Afghanistan going nuts and attacking the US. THey had the same anti war demonstrations then as well.
7.People all over the world are protesting against the war.That includes America and England.DROP BUSH, DONT DROP BOMBS!2 and a half million have protested in Europe yesterday)
A) I have yet to see a single intelligent human being give me any just reason to not liberate Iraq of Saddam and his regime.
8.Renegade soldiers after being sent to Iraq.
A) No clue why we didn\'t pick up on this fruitcake before. Obviously they saw something with him because he was left at the base.
9.USA people being told lies and not shown the truth as it is.(I watched CNN International yesterday.They havent showed the whole truth or the truth or what exactly is happening outside america.AND NO!!IRAQUI\'S ARENT WELCOMING THE USA TROOPS!!AMERICAN SOLDIERS DIED!!THANK BUSH FOR THAT!!:rpissed: )
A) Iraqi\'s are welcoming the troops and the ones who aren\'t are more than likely worried shitless that Saddam\'s regime is not toppled and that they will be seen as traitors.
10.Yesterday I ve protested in Cyprus.With
Greeks and Cypriots, Palestinians and Iraquis were included.Iraqui\'s dont want to be bombed!!
A) No one wants to be bombed. But Saddam wouldn\'t leave. Why am I even responding to this crap?
Just some of the consequences and truths.
Bush has brought world order to the world.:(
Bush is smart.He doesnt watch TV to see whats happening in the world.He prefers reading books because he is smart and educated.NOT.
A) Again you are retarded. He did watch the bombing and he does know what\'s going on.
God I hope as all hell that I don\'t get sucked into this thread by your whacked views.
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videoholic,
I give you credit for replying.
I agree about the protesters. They really have no idea what this is all about. It appears to me they are just blindly following their absurd protest leaders.
Ace
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The thing that gets me is so what if there are a few million protestors.
There are 100\'s of millions of people who are for it.
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I will leave it to Vids comments... I would have been more harsh than he was so I won\'t reply either.
What I find really funny is his claim Greek and Turkey might go to war because of this... I gotta ask Unicorn, is everyone as stupid as you on Cyprus?
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Oh yeah the world is over because of the great United States!!! When in doubt blame the U.S. it\'s never anyone elses fault. The rest of the world always sits around and waits for the U.S. to take care of problems, they never seem to go at anything alone, if it weren\'t for us there would be much worse conditions in Iraq, Bosnia, and Afghanistan to state a few.
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Originally posted by Ace
I agree about the protesters. They really have no idea what this is all about. It appears to me they are just blindly following their absurd protest leaders.
Ace
The same is easily said about pro-war followers.
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Originally posted by mjps21983
Oh yeah the world is over because of the great United States!!! When in doubt blame the U.S. it\'s never anyone elses fault. The rest of the world always sits around and waits for the U.S. to take care of problems, they never seem to go at anything alone, if it weren\'t for us there would be much worse conditions in Iraq, Bosnia, and Afghanistan to state a few.
I agree. Is the problem with North Korea just no big deal right now? Why doesn\'t China and Russia go after them?
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I have to disagree. There is a something quite disturbing about what is going on with the "peace" protesters. A lot of them do not have any idea how brutal Saddam has been and will be if left in power.
We can disagree on this but when I hear it\'s all about oil they lose all credibility with me.
Ace
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Oil is still the driving force IMO.
Darth Yoda said it in another thread.
We are greedy as humans and we wouldnt spend all of this cash unless it was for a greater (monetary) investment.
I dont mind saying that anyone who thinks this is mostly about getting saddam out is a fool with blinders on.
I dont dispute the fact the Saddam is evil..that alot of hgis own ppl dont like him..but lets not bullshit a bullshitter :D
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If it was all about oil why not just get the oil? It would be over by now. It\'s a poor argument.
Ace
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Yeah, we have control of over half of their oil. Lets close shop and tap the spicket.
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9.USA people being told lies and not shown the truth as it is.(I watched CNN International yesterday.They havent showed the whole truth or the truth or what exactly is happening outside america.AND NO!!IRAQUI\'S ARENT WELCOMING THE USA TROOPS!!AMERICAN SOLDIERS DIED!!THANK BUSH FOR THAT!! )
When you go around believing everything CNN says (which is the biggest propaganda spreader), you come out looking like a moron. Also, after we liberated a couple cities in southern Iraq, the people were the happiest people I\'ve ever seen. they tore down and burned Saddams pictures and everything. They enjoy their new freedoms they never had.
Another thing, this is war, soldiers will die. Thats what war is about but that is what a soldier gets paid to do (or volunteer). They know they may never come back.
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B/c its about image.
Just like the miami cop trials going on now. They felt the need to shoot suspects for whatever reason. Once they found out they couldnt justify it..the planted guns.
Waaaayyyyyy different scenario..but similar point.
Its about image.
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Originally posted by Titan
When you go around believing everything CNN says (which is the biggest propaganda spreader), you come out looking like a moron. Also, after we liberated a couple cities in southern Iraq, the people were the happiest people I\'ve ever seen. they tore down and burned Saddams pictures and everything. They enjoy their new freedoms they never had.
Another thing, this is war, soldiers will die. Thats what war is about but that is what a soldier gets paid to do (or volunteer). They know they may never come back.
Have you ever watched CNN international? Im guessing you havent.
It is quite abit different from the CNN we get in the states..although still quite biased on certain issues.
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Not all Iraqis are happy . . . yet. They are still worried we will not finish the job.
How could you not be excited and happy when you see the images of an Iraqi tearing down Saddam\'s image? How can you not be excited for these people who have something that they thought not possible . . . a future.
Ace
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Originally posted by luckee
Have you ever watched CNN international? Im guessing you havent.
No, actually, I never saw it. I don\'t think it is around me though so I can\'t even if I wanted to.
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Originally posted by videoholic
1.Civilian territoreis are being bombarded everyday.Children, women and unarmed civilians are dead or carried to the hospitals.
A) Not true. USA has gone to extreme lengths to have as few casualties as possible. It\'s a friggen war. The people knew we were coming in. BTW, people are in the hospitals every day. Just becaus eyou see someone lying in a bed with an IV in their arm, that doesn\'t mean it\'s war related.
2.The USA gives permission to Turkey to send army to attack North Iraq(where the Kurds are) in exchange of letting their air force to land and take off from Turkey\'s airports.
A) Are you on crack? There is no agreement. We were NEVER allowed to use their airbases. We were only allowed to use their airspace and we never did.
3.Disputes between countries of the European Union.
A) Yeah, that\'s the US\'s fault. Europe would be all rainbows and flowers if it wasn\'t for the US.
4.A war between Greece and Turkey could be likely
A) Yeah, chalk that one up to US as well.
5.A spying U-2 has flown over Caucasus in Russia spying the territory.Russia is worried of a thread.
A)Yeah, Russia is worried. Send me some links.
6.Muslims all over the world are swearing for revenge.A bomb attack in Saudi Arabia and a killing of an American and an English in Yemen is only the beginning.
More terrorism is awakening.
A) When haven\'t muslims sweared revenge for something they don\'t like. I don\'t see the people of Afghanistan going nuts and attacking the US. THey had the same anti war demonstrations then as well.
7.People all over the world are protesting against the war.That includes America and England.DROP BUSH, DONT DROP BOMBS!2 and a half million have protested in Europe yesterday)
A) I have yet to see a single intelligent human being give me any just reason to not liberate Iraq of Saddam and his regime.
8.Renegade soldiers after being sent to Iraq.
A) No clue why we didn\'t pick up on this fruitcake before. Obviously they saw something with him because he was left at the base.
9.USA people being told lies and not shown the truth as it is.(I watched CNN International yesterday.They havent showed the whole truth or the truth or what exactly is happening outside america.AND NO!!IRAQUI\'S ARENT WELCOMING THE USA TROOPS!!AMERICAN SOLDIERS DIED!!THANK BUSH FOR THAT!!:rpissed: )
A) Iraqi\'s are welcoming the troops and the ones who aren\'t are more than likely worried shitless that Saddam\'s regime is not toppled and that they will be seen as traitors.
10.Yesterday I ve protested in Cyprus.With
Greeks and Cypriots, Palestinians and Iraquis were included.Iraqui\'s dont want to be bombed!!
A) No one wants to be bombed. But Saddam wouldn\'t leave. Why am I even responding to this crap?
Just some of the consequences and truths.
Bush has brought world order to the world.:(
Bush is smart.He doesnt watch TV to see whats happening in the world.He prefers reading books because he is smart and educated.NOT.
A) Again you are retarded. He did watch the bombing and he does know what\'s going on.
God I hope as all hell that I don\'t get sucked into this thread by your whacked views.
1.You actually beleive THAT?MUTILATED CORPSES OF INOCENT PEOPLE!!DOES THAT SAY ANYTHING TO U?What US reporter is doing a live covering in Iraq?What CNN?there are many civilian casualties.
2.They did give the permission.I learned today that they changed their minds to avoid any disputes with Turkey.So your partly right.
3.Greece has fears as the Turkish has always been seeking to gain control over the Aegean islands.Seeing the Turkish army moving at a point near the south Iraq even after being questioned puts them into worries they could begin violating their airspace or even try to start incidents to the Aegean sea when they get the chance.The Turkish are always looking for the right moment to expand.That moment is when no international law or force can question or stop them.That moment is any kind of disorder on that territory or in Greece.Or between domains like a serious issue that bothers them commonly which pulls all the attention and efforts to find a solution for it leaving other issues or threads that are specific only to one domain overlooked.
4.What?DISPUTES STARTED AFTER DEBATING WHETHER THEY SHOULD AGREE WITH THE WAR OR STAND AGAINST THE WAR!
5.Link?Sorry.I wasnt informed from the internet.
6.LOL you are actually comparing Afghanistan people as if its the same case?Afganistan is forgotten.They are 200 years behind the world.The other muslim territories are filled with anger and sworn for revenge for what is happening now.Before it was only anger and only specific numbers that cared much.Besides the attack in Afganistan was a different matter.The right was with the US back then after the attack in 11 of September.The majority never had a specific reason for revenge.Now things have changed.The numbers have grown.If attacking Iraq isnt enough reason for revenge put into action then tell me what is.
BTW:Protests against the bombing in Afganistan were minimal compared to the ones now.
7.LOL!!Liberate Iraq!!!Oh my God!!!Wake up!They dont want to be liberated by the USA!!They prefer to live like they always did than puting their relatives and friends in danger!And the USA doesnt care about the Iraqui\'s liberation anyways.They never cared about anyone\'s liberation outside the USA.That attack has consequences to the world outside Iraq too anyways.
8.What are u talking about?
9.How strange only in CNN this welcoming was reported.Where were they welcomed?In the middle of the desert?U beleive that Saddam\'s government is so brute u start making assumptions.
10.THEY DONT WANT TO BE BOMBED!!THEY PREFER SADDAM THAN BEING BOMBED!WAKE UP!!WOULD U LIKE TO BE BOMBED IF U LIVED IN IRAQ TOO?PUTING IN DANGER YOUR LIFE, YOUR CHILDRENS LIFE, YOUR RELATIVES\' LIFE, YOUR FRIENDS LIFE?THEY NEVER ASKED ANY HELP!!
Bush said he isnt informed from TV on the war.He said he is informed from other sources.With other words he hears and sees what he wants to hear and see .
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Saddam is far more dangerous than all the bombs we have sent over there. How people has Saddam killed? Care to take a guess?
How many innocents have we killed since the bombing started?
Ace
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We dont know yet. US says very few..iraq says many.
Wanna include the last wars casualties? :D
I know of 400 from ONE shelter..mostly women and children from 12 years ago.
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bravo to VideoHolic for answering unicorn\'s whacky view!!!
Just to add:
Muslim is always friggin delcaring jihad on this and fatwa on that. It\'s one loony religion which you can\'t reason with. Even if you don\'t bomb Iraq today, the terrorist will still be coming coz all non-muslim ARE INFIDELS AND IS ENEMY OF ISLAM!!!
That is how it is, no matter what you do, you\'re not gonna win them over. So don\'t bother.
Oh, yeah, so who will you be protesting to for the terrorist attack when they strike again?? At Osama Bin Laden\'s house??
Wake up and smell the coffee!!
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One thing I\'m getting sick of is all the anti-war people criticizing and protesting Bush and Bush, alone...
Most of these people probably don\'t have a clue as to how the American government works...
This isn\'t Iraq, where one man decides everything...
Here, we have a system called Checks & Balances and 3 different branches of the governement, where one branch can overrule any decision by another...
Bush can\'t declare war; Congress declares it...
Bush commands the entire military but can\'t do anything until Congress authorizes him...
I might be off on some points but I know the President can\'t just declare war...
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Media: Support the president for war!
Voters: Good idea!
Congressman: Don\'t want to lose my job! I\'ll support war too!
Democrats: Boo Bush naughty face.
Media: Democrats EVIIIIIL
Public: Omg! Evil? Ill vote yes on this war pole!
Media: OMG protestors? EVIIIIIL!
Public: Omg! I dont want to be evil! better stop having views that go against what our govermant tells me to think!
Govermant: Excellent.
I think this would make a great movie! The script is just perfect.
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Media: Support the president for war!
Voters: Good idea!
Congressman: Don\'t want to lose my job! I\'ll support war too!
Democrats: Boo Bush naughty face.
Media: Democrats EVIIIIIL
Public: Omg! Evil? Ill vote yes on this war pole!
Media: OMG protestors? EVIIIIIL!
Public: Omg! I dont want to be evil! better stop having views that go against what our govermant tells me to think!
Govermant: Excellent.
I think this would make a great movie! The script is just perfect.
You forgot one thing:
Anti War segment of society: Its cool to protest and its cool to be anti American - who cares if we don\'t have a valid reason, it is the trendy thing to do.
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So why isnt being pro-war trendy?
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Because Hollywood isn\'t ;)
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Originally posted by videoholic
1.Civilian territoreis are being bombarded everyday.Children, women and unarmed civilians are dead or carried to the hospitals.
A) Not true. USA has gone to extreme lengths to have as few casualties as possible. It\'s a friggen war. The people knew we were coming in. BTW, people are in the hospitals every day. Just becaus eyou see someone lying in a bed with an IV in their arm, that doesn\'t mean it\'s war related.
2.The USA gives permission to Turkey to send army to attack North Iraq(where the Kurds are) in exchange of letting their air force to land and take off from Turkey\'s airports.
A) Are you on crack? There is no agreement. We were NEVER allowed to use their airbases. We were only allowed to use their airspace and we never did.
3.Disputes between countries of the European Union.
A) Yeah, that\'s the US\'s fault. Europe would be all rainbows and flowers if it wasn\'t for the US.
4.A war between Greece and Turkey could be likely
A) Yeah, chalk that one up to US as well.
5.A spying U-2 has flown over Caucasus in Russia spying the territory.Russia is worried of a thread.
A)Yeah, Russia is worried. Send me some links.
6.Muslims all over the world are swearing for revenge.A bomb attack in Saudi Arabia and a killing of an American and an English in Yemen is only the beginning.
More terrorism is awakening.
A) When haven\'t muslims sweared revenge for something they don\'t like. I don\'t see the people of Afghanistan going nuts and attacking the US. THey had the same anti war demonstrations then as well.
7.People all over the world are protesting against the war.That includes America and England.DROP BUSH, DONT DROP BOMBS!2 and a half million have protested in Europe yesterday)
A) I have yet to see a single intelligent human being give me any just reason to not liberate Iraq of Saddam and his regime.
8.Renegade soldiers after being sent to Iraq.
A) No clue why we didn\'t pick up on this fruitcake before. Obviously they saw something with him because he was left at the base.
9.USA people being told lies and not shown the truth as it is.(I watched CNN International yesterday.They havent showed the whole truth or the truth or what exactly is happening outside america.AND NO!!IRAQUI\'S ARENT WELCOMING THE USA TROOPS!!AMERICAN SOLDIERS DIED!!THANK BUSH FOR THAT!!:rpissed: )
A) Iraqi\'s are welcoming the troops and the ones who aren\'t are more than likely worried shitless that Saddam\'s regime is not toppled and that they will be seen as traitors.
10.Yesterday I ve protested in Cyprus.With
Greeks and Cypriots, Palestinians and Iraquis were included.Iraqui\'s dont want to be bombed!!
A) No one wants to be bombed. But Saddam wouldn\'t leave. Why am I even responding to this crap?
Just some of the consequences and truths.
Bush has brought world order to the world.:(
Bush is smart.He doesnt watch TV to see whats happening in the world.He prefers reading books because he is smart and educated.NOT.
A) Again you are retarded. He did watch the bombing and he does know what\'s going on.
God I hope as all hell that I don\'t get sucked into this thread by your whacked views.
Wow, You saved me alot of time Video...
I believe america is stepping up to stop terrorism, theirfor alot of people reject this idea, and create more terrorism to stop this. Which is stopped my the us, which angers more people, and then they do terrorism. Its an endless cycle and america is saving lives, while others kill, sad to say, in a way it evens out. You get the idea?
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So why isnt being pro-war trendy?
Because, that wouldn\'t fit in his argument and it would go against what he keeps spouting out.
:rolleyes:
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More Retarded Views:
1.) Bush is covering up his daddy\'s mistakes.
2.) 75 Billion dollars for war!? WTF!?
3.) All of Iraq\'s neighbors are completely against this war. Except the ones that have been affected by them. Who the hell are we to play God or Guardian Angels? If they want to keep on getting bombed and killed by some Loco then let them be.
4.) Terrorism has been part of this world since the longest. There was terrorism way before 9/11. Not only in the US all over the world. But this war isn\'t about terrorism. If Hussain did sell Bio weapons to terrorist, how the hell are we going to stop them now? Why the hell didn\'t we stop him before? 9/11 was a rude awakening to Americans. Bush now feels threatened by every little thing. It\'s alright to want to protect his people, but you just can\'t rid the world of these kinds of things. Especially when most of the world is against their current actions.
5.) Unicorn is right, he has a completely different look at what is going on.
Put yourselves in the Iraqi people\'s position:
If you were here in the US, some country from the other side of the world lets say Russia decides that it doesn\'t like democracy any more and decides to rid the world of it. So they see how the people of these country are living and decide its not right for people to live like that. They decide that those people are unhappy, but they are forced to be happy because they are free. They decide the US are evil because of all the wars they have been involved with and the things they have done.
They decide to come and set us "free" according to what they believe we want. They go to the UN and try to get the world to free the US people. The UN doesn\'t agree that there should be a war....How do you feel?...Do you feel happy about the fact that you won\'t be in any danger and your family is safe?...Do you feel angry because you don\'t agree with Russia and you are happy the way things are?.......So they invade bomb our capital. You go to the capital and notice dead bodies lying around....your sister..your brother.....you go home watch the news and find that the Russians are saying "We are trying to prevent civilians deaths"...How do you feel then?...Only 4 people died during that attack, but among those people were your family. How do you feel?......
Your brother, uncle, grandpa, dad, are all in the army. They go to fight for what they believe is right. Russia claims they have no choice because they were trained to do so. Do you support them? Do you wish them well?...What about the Russian troops that are coming to "free" you?
You see protesters against this war all over the world. Do you hate them for doing so and hope Russians will succeed in freeing you? Or do you applaud them, and hope they get this war to stop so no more people you love get hurt?
...........
........
OH well, I tried. Some dude tried to brainwash us into not having sex with an article that asked those kind of questions....
Wether there was a war or not there would probably be protest anywas.
If there wasn\'t a war, Pro-War people would rally in the streets and make their case.
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From your replies I can only see that your government has succeded at covering up the truth.You arent even informed about the whole situiation.Your government succeeded their propaganda.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
From your replies I can only see that your government has succeded at covering up the truth.You arent even informed about the whole situiation.Your government succeeded their propaganda.
Please, do not tell us that we are being fooled into something we don\'t understand.
There are many different types of media in the US with varying views and perspectives. It is up to the individual to take it all in and make a judgment on what to believe and what to throw away.
Ace
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Like Al Jazeer hasn\'t gotten to you?
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Russia and China shouldn\'t even talk after all that has happened in Afghanistan/Chechnya and Tibet...
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Originally posted by Ace
Please, do not tell us that we are being fooled into something we don\'t understand.
There are many different types of media in the US with varying views and perspectives. It is up to the individual to take it all in and make a judgment on what to believe and what to throw away.
Ace
Not enough perspectives.You arent being fooled into something you dont understand.You understand what you see.You dont understand what you cant see.Or perhaps reject what you cant accept.
Everyone wants to beleive he/she is as independent or as unique as possible.But we live as masses.The end result is that even if someone is missinformed, fooled etc or even a bigot he/she will never realise it.When we are kids our personality and consious is like clay.It has no form or shape.Thats the target of a government.To shape it.What we see as children, hear or better, live form a personality which when we grow older rejects and chooses whatever fits with the past experiences.For example most protesters in New York dont have an american nationality.
Another example is when parties choose a person for future president for the next elections irregardless which candidate is the most qualified people will vote for the person that belongs to the party they belong to.Which of them is right?The democrats or the republicans?Can a party convince another party they are wrong?One of them must be right.
The same thing happens with nations.
How would I think if I was an Iraqui?How would I think if I was American?What if I was a Turk?A taliban?A russian?Or a French?
Do I really know if I am being fooled or not in Cyprus?Does an I iraqui know if he is being fooled?Do the Soudi Arabians understand they live under religious control that violates many of their rights?Perhaps thats how they realise a rightful life.Thats how they have grown.
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"You arent being fooled into something you dont understand.You understand what you see.You don\'t understand what you cant see.Or perhaps reject what you cant accept."
---Unicron---
Deep man, real deep........and so true so very true...
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I don\'t even know what that means.
Ace
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I want to thank Unicron and Mr. Bling Bling (Mystiq) for making it very apparent that not a single intelligent human being can give a single reason why we shouldn\'t go to war.
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It\'s not moral. War can never be a moral act, not even as a "last resort." In the best case, war is a necessary evil. What is the moral difference between a crusade and a jihad?
A war on Iraq would not qualify as a just war, conforming to a set of principles that have evolved among civilized societies. A just cause should not be confused with a just war.
A war on Iraq for the purpose of "regime change" would not be a legal war under international law. Article 2(4) of the UN Charter states: “All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."
Bombing of civilian populations is a form of terrorism even more abhorrent than low-tech terrorist street bombings of innocents. This has been so ever since the first instance of "strategic" bombing (coincidentally, in Iraq, in 1917 by the British), up to the devastating bombing of Afghanis in our efforts to destroy Al Qaeda, and our continuing bombing raids into Iraq over the past ten years.
"Preemptive war" is anti-American. The concept was made infamous by Adolf Hitler, who claimed his aggression was necessary, to prevent attacks on Germany.
Killing fleeing conscripts in a "turkey shoot" like the one that ended the 1991 Gulf War, another likely feature of a new war in Iraq, is un-American, and will certainly take a postwar psychological toll on the combatants who participate in such repugnant acts, and on their families.
War without a new, specific U.N. resolution based upon evidence of Saddam\'s continued non-compliance with U.N. demands would undermine the U.N. and the ideal of a world system based on lawful principles.
War now would reaffirm ugly precedents in U.S. Constitutional law. The U.S. Congress has earned disrespect for its abdication of responsibility for declaring war. The shame is mitigated only by the fact that Bush has not yet rendered their abdication effective, by waging war without a declaration.
War always has corrosive effects on Constitutional rights. It brings out the worst in presidents, vice-presidents, and attorneys general who are tempted to take Nixonian shortcuts.
Saudi Arabia, not Iraq, is the homeland of Osama and most of his 9-11 suicide squad: "The U.S. warmly supports the royal kleptocracy next door in Saudi Arabia, fully as totalitarian, if not quite as violent, as Saddam\'s government. Any non-Muslim and most women would probably prefer living in Iraq," points out the conservative National Review, in an antiwar editorial.
Internationally, too, PR techniques, propaganda, and intelligence operations are replacing diplomacy and genuine culture-to-culture outreach in our dealings with other nations, a process war will accelerate.
War will also accelerate our drift toward empire, increasingly the subject of popular discourse, cover articles in magazines, learned journal articles.
In a war on Iraq we\'ll lose friends all around the world. That\'s true generally. Specifically:
War on Iraq would have serious consequences in Turkey, where sympathy for 9-11 has faded and antiwar protests reinforce polls that show not only opposition to war on Iraq, but also that only 30% support America\'s war on terrorism.
War plans are alienating the French public, where 75% believe that "the main reason the United States would go to war with Iraq would be \'because the U.S. wants to control Iraqi oil.\'" A L\'Humanité poll published Jan. 17 tracks antiwar sentiment: "Asked by the CSA polling agency whether they would support US intervention in Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein, 66 percent of those who responded said they were opposed, up from 58 percent in a poll conducted in August." We read reports this morning (Jan. 21) that France will not only oppose immediate military action, but will seek "to mobilize the European Union to avert a war against Iraq."
The British are not with us. In the wake of massive demonstrations in the U.K. (200,000 in London last September, a survey found that 69 percent of Britons felt that Mr. Blair was too supportive of US policy toward Iraq." A Jan. 15 BBC poll asked, "Has the government proved the case for a war with Iraq? 81% said no. Just 19% said yes." A poll reported today (Jan. 21) "shows that opposition to a war has risen steadily from 37% in October to 47% now." "British military leaders question mission and ethics " of a preemptive war, the Guardian reports (Feb. 5).
Pakistanis are against war on Iraq. In a recent poll, 70% of the Pakistani public said they hold an unfavorable view of our country. A Yankee war would fuel the fires of Islamist extremists there who, should an unstable government fall, could inherit Pakistan\'s nuclear weapons.
War will create new terrorists. "9-11" has been described as an unintended consequence of the 1991 Gulf War. Certainly, experts agree, Osama has little genuine interest in the plight of Palestinians or other Mideast issues. Osama\'s stated casus belli and recruitment tool was the U.S. violation of sacred Saudi soil.
Arms inspectors are saying that Iraqi officials have granted completely open access to every site, are permitting the questioning of Iraqi scientists, and are otherwise in compliance with U.N. Resolution 1441.
A war with Iraq would be very costly. "Informal estimates by congressional staff and Washington think tanks of the costs of an invasion of Iraq and a postwar occupation of the country have been in the range of $100 billion to $200 billion. If the fighting is protracted, and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein blows up his country\'s oil fields, most economists believe the indirect costs of the war could be much greater," according to various reports.
Occupation of Iraq would be a disaster. "You ought to see a therapist if you want to occupy Iraq," says political scientist Charles A. Kupchan "It\'s just the last place I would want to set up shop. The whole region is deeply anti-American. They\'ll probably be dancing in the streets for 24 to 48 hours and then they\'ll take up sniper positions. That\'s where I think things could go wrong with barracks exploding, etc. If that were to happen, at the end of the day it would cause us to pull in our horns and cause Americans to say, \'What have we gotten ourselves into?\'"
Postwar trials will prove embarrassing for American officials and corporate executives, as we hear testimony from Iraqi officials whose war crimes were committed under U.S. tutelage – in the 1980\'s when Saddam was our ally/client fighting Iran.
The rationale for preemptive strikes and the war against terror gives the Chinese a free hand to "preempt" "terrorists" in their own sphere of interest.
It gives the Russians a rationale to deal preemptively with Chechens and other dissidents.
It gives the Turks a precedent in dealing with their Kurds.
In fact, it so violates established precedents and principles of international law that it sets back the progress of the past 60 years of U.N. development.
The war policy is tainted by politics. War hype was postponed until the weeks immediately prior to the November 2002 elections. The explanation from White House chief of staff Andrew Card: "From a marketing point of view, you don\'t introduce new products in August."
U.S. policy vis-à-vis Saddam has been dominated by a clique of hawks (the Wolfowitz-Perle-Cheney "cabal" in the Pentagon), whose agenda has not been publicly aired and subjected to evaluation or Congressional debate.
Brent Scowcroft has argued against precipitous military action in Iraq.
"Already, the preparations for war are distracting Washington from the task of rebuilding Afghanistan," as Michael Massing writes in The Nation.
And from the ongoing violence in the Middle East.
War is also providing cover for political abuse here at home. When licenses to administration cronies for drilling in Alaska can be wrapped up in a "patriotic" agenda, we know we\'re near the bottom of the barrel.
The plight of the cities, and the economic problems afflicting all 50 states, also take a back seat when the country goes to war.
War will evoke massive antiwar rallies, further straining citizens\' relationships with local authorities, and further draining city budgets.
The talk of a "perpetual war," so reminiscent of Orwell\'s novel, 1984, suggests a willingness to accept a long-term suspension of civil rights, looser reins on Federal prosecutors, and more secret tribunals.
A "perpetual war" would also tend to institutionalize paramilitary practices on the part of police departments who will have to develop new routines for handling civil disobedience.
Despite claims that they are stalling or lying, in fact Saddam\'s officials appear to be complying with every request from U.N. inspectors.
There is no evidence justifying a war. The Bush administration has claimed to have it but they have not produced it – either to make their case to the American public or (as far as we know) to guide U.N. arms inspectors who have asked for it. Only this week (Jan. 14) did chief U.N. inspector Hans Blix announce that some materials "from several sources" have become available.
So far, the evidence formally presented has been a 50-page dossier British Prime Minister Tony Blair, presumably fortified if not supplied by U.S. intelligence, which was treated disdainfully by liberal and conservative critics alike: "While there was limited support for the prime minister\'s position that \'the threat [presented by Saddam Hussein] is serious and current,\' most commentators felt that the dossier failed to put forward a compelling case for military action in Iraq. Unusually in Britain\'s adversarial journalistic culture, feelings about the dossier were even strong enough to unite editorial writers from different ends of the political spectrum."
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I never thought Mystic could post something half-intelligent, but he did. Sad part is, you people are so dead-set on war, than it won\'t matter. It\'ll give swept under the rug as "idiotic".
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could i get a condensed version of what he wrote?
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LIC, you really think he wrote that? Let me guess, did he look up the UN charters to find Artcle #24 so that he could quote it?
I love this one: "Bombing of civilian populations is a form of terrorism even more abhorrent than low-tech terrorist street bombings of innocents. "
Since when have we been bombing civilian populations? We are bombing military targets. Hell, we haven\'t even knocked out their broadcast station yet because they built it next to a hospital (Or a daycare or something ridiculous, can\'t remember). The Iraqi military in Basra have killed more civilians than we have.
And he is quoting Charles A. Kupchan.... Do you even know who that is?
Whatever. I can\'t read anymore of this crap. find your own shit and write yourself. Otherwise give whoever you stole this from some friggen credit.
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Originally posted by videoholic
I want to thank Unicron and Mr. Bling Bling (Mystiq) for making it very apparent that not a single intelligent human being can give a single reason why we shouldn\'t go to war.
And I want to thank everyone on this forum that support this war for making it very apparent, the few people that govern can manipulate millions of people.
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?
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Originally posted by Unicron!
the few people that govern can manipulate millions of people.
Again......
THEN WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING SADDAM!!!!!!
Am I the only person that sees the irony in this statement.
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Nope.
Cypriots must be the most enlightened people on the planet, \'cos you know, they\'re such a huge part of international affairs, and every other thing in my house has a "made in cyprus" tag on it. You know a country is lame when the Turks can take you over...
;)
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Originally posted by CHIZZY
Nope.
Cypriots must be the most enlightened people on the planet, \'cos you know, they\'re such a huge part of international affairs, and every other thing in my house has a "made in cyprus" tag on it. You know a country is lame when the Turks can take you over...
;)
You want my honest opinion?Cypriots are stupid!I admit that.Most of them only care about their 100.000 Cyprus pound house, their expensive 3 cars, they buy more clothes than they actually wear, buy more food supplies than they can actually eat and they cant accept the fact that their neighbor has a more expensive car or house etc.
Most of them express their opinion buit never fight for it.They stay in their warm homes.As long as they have their expensive car and house and eat as if there is no tommorrow they feel happy.Only when they lose everything they might wake up.
But there is the minority that fight for the better(as always).
I am not proud.Most of them talk about patriotism.I dont care about patriotic meanings.
I am sick of Greek-Cypriots argueing if they are Greeks or Cypriots.Thats what started most of the trouble in the first place.
I could have been an Iraqui.I could have been an American.I could have been an Indian.You know something?Nations are virtual creations of human.
Originally posted by videoholic
Again......
THEN WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING SADDAM!!!!!!
Am I the only person that sees the irony in this statement.
I AM NOT DEFENDING SADDAM!!I AM DEFENDING THE IRAQUI PEOPLE AND THE WHOLE WORLD!!I VE SEEN IRAQUIS PROTESTING AGAINST THEIR "LIBERATION"!!FOR THEM ITS NOT A LIBERATION FROM SADDAM!!ITS A THREAD TO THEIR COUNTRY!!EVEN THE SUNNIS ARE JOING FORCES WITH SADDAM(The greast Sunni religion leader who was fanatically against Saddam, now is joining forces with him for the protection of Iraq against the enemy.The soldiers sent by the US go to Iraq with the impression they are saving them.Actually they are a thread to the Iraquis and they dont even know it)!!
YOUR GOVERNMENT\'S TARGET IS NOT THE IRQUIS\' "LIBERATION"!
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good grief....
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You\'re defending the Iraqi people from the whole world? What about defending them from the brutal regime that they have been living under?
A lot of these Iraqis taking arms will turn the minute they find out Saddam is toast. They are worried we will leave them without finishing the job. They worry if Saddam gets another chance, they will have the Butcher of Baghdad to contend with.
That ain\'t gonna happen this time.
Ace
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Good grief?Do u know if u are indeed being told the truth about this war?
In the name of patriotism and the mistakes Cypriots did before I was born I have to spend two years+ of my life in the army, suffer the consiquences of their mistakes and see the people of my age others being propagandized by the left party and others by the right party and continue the same mistakes and arqueings their parents did that resulted to the Turkish invasion.
We should start thinking by ourselves.We amlost always follow the ideals and opinions our parents teach us.Wrong or right we follow them as right.
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Please stop telling us that we am not smart enough to come to our own conclusions. You do not have the market cornered on seeing through propaganda.
Ace
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Originally posted by Ace
You\'re defending the Iraqi people from the whole world? What about defending them from the brutal regime that they have been living under?
A lot of these Iraqis taking arms will turn the minute they find out Saddam is toast. They are worried we will leave them without finishing the job. They worry if Saddam gets another chance, they will have the Butcher of Baghdad to contend with.
That ain\'t gonna happen this time.
Ace
Defending the Iraqui people from the whole world?What on earth are u talking about?
How about the Iraquis living OUTSIDE Iraq that are protesting against this war?I didnt know Saddam could control them outside Iraq too.I ve told u that they see the US and generally the NATO as a thread to their country.Iraqui\'s against or with Saddam are joining forces with him to protect their country.Even the Sunnis.Do u understand what that means?
Oh forgot to add.When I was a kid in Oman my family met an Iraqui family with which they became friends.Their opinions about Saddam were positive.They were very satisfied with their leader.They said he did many great things for their counttry.That confuses me now though .:confused:
Anyways the Iraquis\' most suffering begun after the embargo.They couldnt develop economically, educationally etc their country after that.
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Here\'s the deal. The Iraqis are going to benefit from us protecting ourselves.
We are at war, we are going to win and that\'s it.
Ace
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Thats soooo conveneint, isnt it?
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No, it\'s arrogance. We\'ve earned it.
Ace
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Gosh this is just downright stupid.
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Who was the Iraqi family you met?
Qusay Hussein?
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For every 1 Iraqi national that lives outside the country and protests the war there are 100 more that are for it.
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unicron, repeat after me
"there is no consipracy"
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Good grief?Do u know if u are indeed being told the truth about this war?
There are no truths or lies, only personal opinions and vendettas.
/me has seen Unicron spell "Iraqi" ten different ways.
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No Duh I didn\'t write that. But there are the reasons you asked for Vid. I didn\'t try to see you come up with anything saying why they are so stupid. But you didn\'t say they\'re stupid. You just didn\'t say anything about them. I read them all and theres more:
The example of North Korea reminds us that even when bad people acquire nuclear capability, we have response options other than war.
There is no identifiable connection between Al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. In fact, the Islamist fundamentalists are mortal enemies of the secular Iraqi Bathists.
Absent real evidence, the administration has shown its willingness to fudge facts: Rumsfeld\'s "bulletproof evidence" showing an Al Qaeda-Iraq link turned out to be riddled with holes.
Instead of accepting the burden of proof, U.S. policy has put Iraqi officials in the position of proving a negative. It has the same logic as that of an inquisitor who threatens to tighten the thumbscrews with every denial. "The inspections have yet to uncover compelling evidence of banned weapons programmes, but the United States has said they are designed as a test of cooperation with a U.N. disarmament resolution rather than an effort to find hidden arms."
War plans are based on a dishonest history of arms inspections. Scott Ritter, the former chief UN weapons inspector in Iraq says, "The politics of fear have clouded the collective judgment of the people of the United States to the point where we, unfortunately, are willing to accept at face value almost any allegation of wrongdoing on the part of Iraq without first demanding to know the factual basis of such an allegation."
The 1990s arms inspections were "in the end corrupted by those who chose to use the unique access ? to deliberately provoke a crisis that, in turn, was used to justify the continuation of economic sanctions," Ritter says.
Ritter also charges that inspectors left in 1998, "not because the Iraqis kicked them out, but rather that they were ordered out by former executive chairman of the weapons inspection regime Richard Butler under pressure from the United States and without the permission of the Security Council, in order to clear the way for a military aggression in December 1998."
Desert Fox: Its mission was "To strike military and security targets in Iraq that contribute to Iraq\'s ability to produce, store, maintain and deliver weapons of mass destruction." But Ritter claims that "the vast majority of the more than 100 targets bombed by the United States and Great Britain during Desert Fox had nothing to do with weapons production capability, but rather the leadership and security establishments of the government of Iraq and that the precision in which these targets were bombed was due in a large part due to the information gathered by weapons inspectors."
Those "chemical warheads" that recent headlines are screaming about are bogus.
Purported weapons factories have turned out to be nonfunctional and often in ruins.
A nuclear weapons program is "very expensive and readily detectable." The gas centrifuge facilities "emit gamma radiation, as well as many other frequencies. It\'s detectable. Iraq could not get around this."
Two of the three types of "nerve agents" formerly made in Iraq ? Sarin and Tabus ? "have a shelf life of five years. Even if Iraq had somehow managed to hide this vast number of weapons from inspectors, what they\'re now storing is nothing more than useless, harmless goo."
Iraq\'s capability for developing the third type, VX (about which Iraqis lied to inspectors repeatedly) was destroyed by inspectors in 1996. The above three points are detailed in War on Iraq, by William Rivers Pitt with Scott Ritter, which explains that the weapons inspections during the 1990s were effective.
"Contrary to popular mythology, there\'s absolutely no evidence Iraq worked on smallpox, Ebola, or any other horrific nightmare weapons the media likes to talk about today," according to the same source.
Iraqis made anthrax, "weaponized" it, then "lied about this capability for some time?. Finally they admitted it, and we blew up the plant [in 1995]?. Liquid bulk anthrax, even under ideal storage conditions, germinates in three years, becoming useless? Iraq has no biological weapons today, because both the anthrax and the botulinum toxin are useless. For Iraq to have biological weapons today, they\'d have to reconstitute a biological manufacturing base." (same source.)
Saddam has not been able to replace what inspectors destroyed during the \'90s. "They\'d have to start from scratch, having been deprived of all equipment, facilities and research. They\'d have to procure the complicated tools and technology required through front companies. This would be detected. The manufacture of chemical weapons emits vented gases that would have been detected by now if they existed. We\'ve been watching, via satellite and other means, and have seen none of this. If Iraq was producing weapons today, we\'d have definitive proof, plain and simple." (same source.)
"The idea that Iraq can suddenly pop up with a long range missile is ludicrous? they can\'t conduct tests indoors. You have to bring rockets out, fire them on test stands. This is detectable. No one has detected any evidence of Iraq doing this." (same source.)
Under pressures of an actual shooting war, Gestapo-type spying would become even more customary and acceptable here in the "homeland." Already, our government is "chipping away at the wall that has existed for nearly three decades between domestic law enforcement and international intelligence gathering."
There is no clear and imminent danger, and so no compelling reason to move precipitously.
The Council of Religious Leaders of Metropolitan Chicago (among many other religious and faith-based coalitions) has petitioned Bush to avoid war on Iraq. Their letter, "an unprecedented, unanimous call," was signed by Chicago\'s Christian, Jewish and Muslim religious leaders, and reflects the "opinion across a broad spectrum of society, " according to the Council\'s executive director.
Pope John Paul II has added his plea for peace and the solidarity of all peoples within a framework of international law. The Vatican has repeatedly asserted its opposition to war in Iraq.
Chicago\'s City Council has passed a resolution against the war, joining almost 50 other cities, and making Chicago the largest U.S. municipality to do so.
Our plans for a war on Iraq are in conflict with the American values we teach our children. I will never forget how disillusioned I was as a kid when it was my beloved President Eisenhower, and not that nasty Premier Khruschev, who turned out to be the liar in the U2 incident. How are young Americans supposed to reconcile preemptive war with what they\'ve been taught about our country\'s values?
....I will give you the source where I got them from. The site is down for some strange reason.........hmm................
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Originally posted by Unicron!
I AM NOT DEFENDING SADDAM!!I AM DEFENDING THE IRAQUI PEOPLE AND THE WHOLE WORLD!!I VE SEEN IRAQUIS PROTESTING AGAINST THEIR "LIBERATION"!!FOR THEM ITS NOT A LIBERATION FROM SADDAM!!ITS A THREAD TO THEIR COUNTRY!!EVEN THE SUNNIS ARE JOING FORCES WITH SADDAM(The greast Sunni religion leader who was fanatically against Saddam, now is joining forces with him for the protection of Iraq against the enemy.The soldiers sent by the US go to Iraq with the impression they are saving them.Actually they are a thread to the Iraquis and they dont even know it)!!
YOUR GOVERNMENT\'S TARGET IS NOT THE IRQUIS\' "LIBERATION"!
The Iraqis that are protesting probably aren\'t living in Iraq and if they are, they are forced to by Saddam.
Our whole war is on Iraqi liberation. When we kill saddam, Iraq is liberated. If we actually killed him the first night, the war would be over already and people would be happy. I have too much of a headache right now to make sense out of this right now.
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Iraqis made anthrax, "weaponized" it, then "lied about this capability for some time?. Finally they admitted it, and we blew up the plant [in 1995]?. Liquid bulk anthrax, even under ideal storage conditions, germinates in three years, becoming useless? Iraq has no biological weapons today, because both the anthrax and the botulinum toxin are useless. For Iraq to have biological weapons today, they\'d have to reconstitute a biological manufacturing base."
UK dossier, 24 September 2002
p.19: "Iraq has admitted to UNSCOM to having the knowledge and capability to add stabiliser to nerve agent and other chemical warfare agents which would prevent such decomposition. In 1997 UNSCOM also examined some munitions which had been filled with mustard gas prior to 1991 and found that they remained very toxic and showed little sign of deterioration."
Copy Paste, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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lol, dajo
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Great detective work dajo. Make him a mod :D
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pwned...
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Mystiq, the reason I didn\'t reply saying they were stupid was because I am busy as shit right now working for a living. I don\'t have the time to read that crap. I skimmed through it and virtually everything I read I felt, "Um, so what?"
PS: DAJO OWNS.
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Oh yeah Mystiq stop quoting sources that use Scott Ritter... that might help your argument for a start.
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I said I didn\'t make it up.
Anyways heres the link:
http://work.colum.edu/~amiller/pp012103.htm
It has more than what I posted and links you to the "facts" and "proof" you guys crave so much.
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Originally posted by Ace
No, it\'s arrogance. We\'ve earned it.
Ace
Yeah.Its very convenient to answer with arrogance than answering directly to the point.
Originally posted by Ashford
Who was the Iraqi family you met?
?
I didnt mention it as proof that Saddam isnt a dictator and you could have answered directly to my post without irony.
Instead I ll do you a favour and answer to my own statement with three possibilities that satisfy both views:
1.Saddam offered many great things to his country to sweeten the people and create a good image and impressions about himseld before he actually revealed his true self.
2.After some argues with the US and threads of his enemies he felt unsafety, insecured and suspicious to such sickeningly degree he became a dictator governing his people brutely imprisoning and getting rid of anyone he susspected as cooperating with his enemies or the US against him
3.Probabply you are right and the family we met were indeed Qusay Hussein :rolleyes:
*Ofcourse there could be other possibilities.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
For every 1 Iraqi national that lives outside the country and protests the war there are 100 more that are for it.
Oh yeah as if you have been to Iraq and seen them.
I see contradictions so huge everyday between american newscasts and others that I dont know what to believe anymore.
This war didnt increase the hatred against Saddam.Actually it coiled them up against the US and British forces.
People dont bother bringing down their dictator leader when their country is threatened and attacked.Instead they unite to defend their country.
The same thing happened in Greece in WW2.They were governed by the dictator Metaksas.But when the Germans threatened their country they united and supported their governor instead, to defend their country.All their efforts were targeted at defeating the enemy.
Originally posted by mm
unicron, repeat after me
"there is no consipracy"
mm repeat after me
"behind every war hide great interests"
Do u really beleive that a government that cares only about everything that is good and pure really exists?Do u think the US is that kind of country?There is no such country?Every government cares mostly about their personal interests.Others show it, others hide it.
Originally posted by Vapor Snake
There are no truths or lies, only personal opinions and vendettas.
/me has seen Unicron spell "Iraqi" ten different ways.
The problem is that the so called "personal" opinions can be formed by governments however they see fit.
You could have had a complete different opinion if you were shown different things.
BTW:I am not doing a spelling competition here:D
Originally posted by Titan
The Iraqis that are protesting probably aren\'t living in Iraq and if they are, they are forced to by Saddam.
Our whole war is on Iraqi liberation. When we kill saddam, Iraq is liberated. If we actually killed him the first night, the war would be over already and people would be happy. I have too much of a headache right now to make sense out of this right now.
Probably.How can Saddam force them?How can he control them outside Iraq?Especially when Iraq is being attacked?You are rejecting whatever chances they exist that show that the Iraquis dont want this war.
Ofcourse you, the everyday American citizens want the Iraqis to live in prosperity.That\'s what we all want for every human being in this God damned planet.
But everyday you are being bombarded with information that exaggerate.And I am too when there are issues that concern "my" country(notice the" ").The difference is that the war in Iraq concerns the whole world.Its not just the story u ve been told of the dictator Saddam that threatens the US.
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can i get a condensed version?
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I skimmed through it.. Not a whole lot interesting although he did say this...
"The same thing happened in Greece in WW2.They were governed by the dictator Metaksas.But when the Germans threatened their country they united and supported their governor instead, to defend their country.All their efforts were targeted at defeating the enemy. "
I think he is actually comparing our defending our country by removing an evil dictator from power to a Nazi war monger.
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i\'m not suprised
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You misunderstood what I ment.In previous post I mentioned the soldiers have the impression they are sent to liberate.They think they are sent for a peace operation of somekind.That is enough to make me see the attack differently than what the German\'s did in WW2.
No way I am seeing like the Nazis.Dont put words in my mouth I never said:rpissed:
What I ment is that as long as the Iraqi people see you as an enemy to their country(which you are) in their eyes(NOT MINE) you have no difference than any other enemy.And a thread to a nation is a more serious enemy than a dictator governing that same nation.
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Liberating Iraq is third on the list of why we are doing what we are doing.
1.) Disarm Saddam of WMD.
2.) Stop him before he becomes the threat that everybody knows he is.
3.) Iraqi people liberated because of one and two.
My opinion, which I believe is right.
Ace
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In addition the 2nd point Ace said... to avoid any confusion - TO REMOVE SADDAM FROM POWER.
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;)
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1)I wonder who gave them the technology and the financial power to produce such weapons
2)Everybody?
3)Enough liberation they got already.
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Hmmm...liberate Iraqi from a dictator...The U.S. has 102 more countries to go
This war the U.S. is causing is doing more destruction and death then Saddam could ever bring in his lifetime
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videoholic,
It\'s been a crappy day so far but that\'s got me laughing. :laughing:
Ace
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Feel free to use it every time Clowd and Unicron post. :)
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Originally posted by Clowd
Hmmm...liberate Iraqi from a dictator...The U.S. has 102 more countries to go
This war the U.S. is causing is doing more destruction and death then Saddam could ever bring in his lifetime
Decent point in your first half. I realy. really doubt the US will start over throwing the remaining dictators and *bad* ppl in the world.
As for what you just said about the US causing more death than saddam ever...I think you should rethink that....seriously do some research b4 spewing false claims.
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That 60 bilion dollar war fund can be used better by elevating american education which is considered poor compare to other countries.
.
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I\'m just going to chime in one one point, and remove myself forever again from this forum. Remember, all IMO.
Though I didn\'t agree with the war starting when it did (I thought they should have more international support), I do agree that now that it is started there is NO CHOICE but to finish it and remove saddam from power.
At some point, the civilized countries of the world are going to HAVE to unite and decide that fundemental human rights, like life, shelter, food, equality, have to be given to ALL people; and, in countries like Iraq (North Korea, Sierra Leone, etc), there are no real options but to remove the problem (dictator, government, drug lords) by force. Sanctions, words, and hollow threats just don\'t work on people with mindsets like Saddam. I\'m not pretending that the US\'s interests are purely altruistic, nobody is that foolish, but what they\'re doing is better for us all in the long run, because they\'re doing the right thing... even if it\'s for the wrong reasons.
PS - Unicron! You sound foolish when you talk about people killed or mutilated from the war in iraq. Before the war, Saddam had his roving death squads keeping the people in line, with just as much, or more brutality than they can expect from a bomb. Welcome to the fact that sometimes war offers a better FUTURE for a group of peoples than the rest of us sitting back and doing nothing. Remember the tapes from afghanistan (http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2001/10/22102001075700.asp) that were smuggled out? Saddam wants the jews dead, the Kurds, and any groups outside of his control in the Middle East.
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Originally posted by luckee
As for what you just said about the US causing more death than saddam ever...I think you should rethink that....seriously do some research b4 spewing false claims.
What I meant is that Saddam Hussein under the watch of the U.N. would equal less casualties and destruction then this war to free Iraq.
How many people have died already? Only 8 days in? I\'ve heard that Saddam kills his own people, but does he kill 30+ a time as what happened in the Market? Or if you believe he fired on his own people, what of the nearly 4000+ bombs that have rained on Baghdad? How many civilians have been killed? Reporters who visited Afghanistan first hand have seen hundreds of civilian casualties. And this seems so much worst then Afghanistan. 8 days in and Iraq is reporting thousands of injuries. 30 U.S. troops dead, 20+ British troops dead. 250+ Iraqis dead. How many years would it take Saddam, under the close watch of the U.N., to killl 300 people? By the time this war is over, the city of Baghdad may be just rubble. With Urban Warfare most likely I see only the worst coming in the future of Baghdad. Sometimes you have to wonder is it really worth it
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but does he kill 30+ a time as what happened in the Market?
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bah, i deleted what i REALLY wanted to say to you clowd
i smell a troll
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Saddam killed 60,000 in ONE CITY after the gulf war b/c there was an uprising that the US said they would back if locals did.
Who knows how many throughout Iraq..hundreds of thousands is my guess.
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60,000 in one city? 60,000 rebels? I\'m starting to question whether Saddams army has even enough firepower to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Do you have a link where I can read more about this?
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Do you have ANY idea how many MILITARY men alone Irag had in 92?
Hell..just think of how many non-official military citizens that follwed him and his word.
No link handy, but if you do a search, it should come up rather easily.
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Originally posted by Clowd
30 U.S. troops dead, 20+ British troops dead. 250+ Iraqis dead. How many years would it take Saddam, under the close watch of the U.N., to killl 300 people?
He killed over 60,000 of his own people under watch of the UN.
Oh and we have killed WAY more than 250 Iraqis. Give the US some freaking credit. I\'m willing to bet we may be over 10,000. Of course we\'ll never know because Iraq is apparently winning the war.
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That and the US wont confirm kills b/c of its image in the media/public forum.
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just today like 50 repulican gaurds were killed in one air attack, so i think vid hit the nail on the head with his estimate (i.e if he was\'nt being sarcastic)
and that 60,000 figure is only in southern iraq, he killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of people thru out iraq during his regime (some how sharon does\'nt look so bad anymore)
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How was I being sarcastic? I actually think we are way more than the 10,000 I estimated, but I am sitting in my home in Tampa, FL so I really have no idea.
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i wasnt implying that u were being sarcastic, i only put that line in my post as a precaution coz i felt that their was a hint of sarcasm in yer post.
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Saddam, like so many other governments, felt an uprising vs his regime and did what was necessary to get rid of any sort of rebels. I am not saying what he did was right but, but I am saying Stalin did it on a much greater scale, but did the U.S. do anything about it? Mao did the same thing in China at a much greater scale but did the U.S. do anything about it?
Thats how things go in other countries. Start a riot in Africa, dont be surprised if your gunned down after the first warning to disperse.
Uprising arent tolerated well in Eastern countries. I have no doubt in my mind that dozens of other countries would handle an uprising the same way.
This is one of the things that got me really disgusted with this war. I was hoping that when Iraq let the inspectors back in and complied with everything the U.N. said, war would be adverted. But the president of America has his heart set like this.
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any rational person should have his heart set on removing saddam
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clowd only a fraction of the people saddam killed were rebels, he killed innocent women and children just to instill fear in the heart and minds of iraqis. and lets not forget the hundred\'s of thousands of kurds that he killed in horrendous ways.
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AND dont forget his secret police (think nazi SS) that kills ANYONE who dares oppose saddam
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Saddam is no good.
Hitler was no good.
Germany wasnt doing good when Hitler was their.
Hitler is gone.
Germany doing gooooood.
Saddam gone?
Iraq good?
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Originally posted by mm
any rational person should have his heart set on removing saddam
So you mean Bush\'s daddy wasn\'t rational?
You think Bush(president now) knows this.....
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SirMystiq, you weren\'t old enough to even have a clue what was going on in 1991. Bush\'s daddy\'s goal was to liberate Kuwait. That was all he had the authority to do. If he would have gone and blasted Saddam out of Baghdad you bunch of whiners would be all over his ass for going after him.
Now that we are going after him you bunch of whiners are blasting poppa for not going after him back then.
Whatever. No matter what you uneducated folk would still bitch about something.
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The only objective of the Persian Gulf War was to free Kuwait from Saddam\'s grip and get him out of there when he invaded. That\'s it. Assassinating saddam was not on the list of objectives and was not anything that was supposed to be done. Even if Bush Sr. had the chance, he wouldn\'t have been allowed to do it.
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Well Saddam was a bigger threat back then than he is now.
But mm said any rational person should want hussain out of power. So poppa should of tought about that.
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Jesus christ mystiq. Put on an REO Speedwagon record and read a history book.
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Alright then!! Maybe I will!!!
You know you secretly like REO anyways.....
BTW whats a record??
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Clowd...
I can\'t believe you could be so stupid to even think that the Allies could possibly or would kill more civilians than Saddam has/will...
Latest news reports Saddam\'s loyal troops are murdering civilians just trying to flee, people who so much as wave to Allies, and, worst of all, FORCING CHILDREN TO FIGHT UNDER THREAT OF EXECUTING THEIR WHOLE FAMILY!!!
And you\'re are a fool to think that the UN could possibly prevent Saddam from murdering any civilans...
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The thousands who tried to over throw him are hardly civilians. If you take up arms against a government are you still a civilian?
Well, I cant really talk with someone who listens to American propaganda. Human shields, shooting people who flee, has not been proven and is nothing more then propaganda. First it was that they shot mortars ahead of the people trying to escape, scaring them back, now its they shoot them dead. Conflicting reports like this lead me to be skeptical of anything that is reported, U.S. or Iraqi. How do they know about forcing children to fight? They must be right in there with them huh.
What is this war over anyways? Protecting America? Protecting Iraqis? Protecting Iraqi\'s neighbors?
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Originally posted by Clowd
The thousands who tried to over throw him are hardly civilians. If you take up arms against a government are you still a civilian?
dude like i said before only a fraction of the people he killed took up arms against him, the rest were just families (women children and oldfolk) he killed them just for the sake of killing.
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Clowd, there are times when I look at you and wonder, "WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH THIS KID". I mean seriously, it seems like your only purpouse here is to disagree with everyone. Either that, or you really truly think Saddam\'s government is legitimate; in which case, you should be ignored.
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Originally posted by Tyrant
the rest were just families (women children and oldfolk) he killed them just for the sake of killing.
can you prove that?
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can you disprove that?
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it\'s a well known fact, clowd
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Originally posted by Avatarr
"WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH THIS KID". I mean seriously, it seems like your only purpouse here is to disagree with everyone.
Avatarr, you hit the sweet spot...
Exactly what I think, but I just clicked a button :D
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clowd this is not exactly what i wanted to show you (it doesnt come close, more over i don\'s have the stomach to search for more info)
http://www.iraqfoundation.org/hr/2002/cdec/irdp.pdf
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What do you know Tyrant? You live in the Middle East. Clowd lives in what? St. Louis? He is much closer to the situation and has a firm grasp on reality from his bedroom.
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Can someone enlighten me on where did Saddam gain the technology, facilities and financial power from to create weapons of mass destruction?
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Saddam gained the technology,facilities and financial power from the good old USA to do some damage to Iranians back in the 80s.Please don\'t get brainwashed by Pentagon\'s media.Free yourself as what Democracy should be, free yourself from stupidity.
.
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pure democracy is just as bad as pure communism
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Originally posted by Waspman
Saddam gained the technology,facilities and financial power from the good old USA to do some damage to Iranians back in the 80s.Please don\'t get brainwashed by Pentagon\'s media.Free yourself as what Democracy should be, free yourself from stupidity.
.
^^^^
Thank God someone has answered.:)
The greatest country on God\'s green earth didnt care that Saddam was a dictator back then and gave him the ability to create weapons of mass destruction?The country that is so called democratic?Ofcourse back then Saddam was cooperating with your government.He was a way of satisfying your governments interests.
Your own government is causing its problems to itself.It has thrown a boomerang, missed and came back hitting its own head.The consiquences are for you and the Iraqis to suffer.
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A war of Iraq vs Iran. Who would you have aided Unicron? Don\'t forget that Iran had US hostages back in 80.
And how many weapons that Saddam is using are american made? Maybe .5%??? THey have received far more over the years (Especially recent years) from Russia, Syria, China, and France.
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Originally posted by mm
pure democracy is just as bad as pure communism
Pure democracy only existed thousands of years ago in Attica.What an irony.
:p
We have never seen pure democracy which the same thing counts for communism.We have only seen bureaucratic capitalism dressed with the skin of communism.
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Originally posted by videoholic
A war of Iraq vs Iran. Who would you have aided Unicron? Don\'t forget that Iran had US hostages back in 80.
And how many weapons that Saddam is using are american made? Maybe .5%??? THey have received far more over the years (Especially recent years) from Russia, Syria, China, and France.
Yeah yeah!US hostages.What an excuse.And so they gave him weapons of mass destruction?They expected further cooperation with saddam.
Ofcourse most of his weapons are not American made.After he stopped accepting your governments contidions and the cooperation stopped resulting to desputes ofcourse he wouldnt buy weapons from u (or your government sell weapons to him although some american weapons have been sold to him despite all this).
The point is not if most of his weapons are american made or not.The point is that if he has developed weapons of mass destruction its thanks to your governments help.
Atleast your government shouldnt mention the US attack as if one of their targets is to liberate the Iraqis to make the US citizens touched because of Saddam\'s regime and manipulate them.They never cared then they dont care now.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Yeah yeah!US hostages.What an excuse.And so they gave him weapons of mass destruction?They expected further cooperation with saddam.
Ofcourse most of his weapons are not American made.After he stopped accepting your governments contidions and the cooperation stopped resulting to desputes ofcourse he wouldnt buy weapons from u (or your government sell weapons to him although some american weapons have been sold to him despite all this).
The point is not if most of his weapons are american made or not.The point is that if he has developed weapons of mass destruction its thanks to your governments help.
Atleast your government shouldnt mention the US attack as if one of their targets is to liberate the Iraqis to make the US citizens touched because of Saddam\'s regime and manipulate them.They never cared then they dont care now.
Your facts are twisted, what is it for you to say one person doesn\'t care about another, and all we are here to do is manipulate people. IGNORANCY at its finest. Your views are your own, but until you are a little more informed and can look at both sides, your views will be twisted.
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Pure democracy only existed thousands of years ago in Attica.What an irony.
actually, it existed barely 200 years ago
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Originally posted by mjps21983
Your facts are twisted, what is it for you to say one person doesn\'t care about another, and all we are here to do is manipulate people. IGNORANCY at its finest. Your views are your own, but until you are a little more informed and can look at both sides, your views will be twisted.
You are the one living in America not me.:rolleyes:
And its not about a person not caring about another.And YOU are being manipulated by your own government.I didnt say YOU the citizen are manipulating other people..Dont act as if when I mention government its as if I mention the common American citizen.
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Originally posted by mm
actually, it existed barely 200 years ago
Where?:confused: Are u refering to the time of George Washingtons\' presidency?Or Abraham Lincoln\'s?
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So me living in america automatically makes me a bad person and uninformed??? Just make yourself seem more ignorant, you don\'t know me so therefore to pass judgement on me because of where I live is unjust.
And my government is just fine, it may have its highs and lows, but so does everyone elses, it is only because America is so powerful that things become magnified, I\'m sure Cyprus is the greatest country in the world, maybe I should go live there with you.
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cyrpus has a population of less than any of the states in the US
ANY government you may live under is skewed
and yes, back in the late 1700\'s, democracy ruled the colonies that became the USA
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Originally posted by mjps21983
So me living in america automatically makes me a bad person and uninformed???
No.It doesnt make me believe you are a bad person or uninformed just because you are American.I never said such a thing.I judge your government.Not you.
I never accused you.I wouldnt have been in these forums in the first place if that was the case.Or I would have been offensive with every American in this forum.
Just make yourself seem more ignorant, you don\'t know me so therefore to pass judgement on me because of where I live is unjust.
You dont know me either but you judged me despite the fact that I judge your government not the American citizen.
And my government is just fine, it may have its highs and lows, but so does everyone elses
I mentioned this too in my previous post in this thread.
it is only because America is so powerful that things become magnified, I\'m sure Cyprus is the greatest country in the world, maybe I should go live there with you.
See a post of mine again in this thread(actually two posts).
btw:Although I agree that because America is so powerfull that things become "magnified",I say power leads to uncontrol, arrogance and "greediness" or even to some degree imperialistic trends.You said by yourself that there is no perfect government.So it is normal that the US sometimes takes decisions that arent right.Who can stop this powerfull government when it takes wrong decisions?Russia?Europe?The UN?The American citizen?None.
Unfortunately every government offer "bread and shows" to keep their people satisfied and under control.And the people that dont buy it?Pretend as if they never exist.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
10.THEY DONT WANT TO BE BOMBED!!THEY PREFER SADDAM THAN BEING BOMBED!WAKE UP!!WOULD U LIKE TO BE BOMBED IF U LIVED IN IRAQ TOO?PUTING IN DANGER YOUR LIFE, YOUR CHILDRENS LIFE, YOUR RELATIVES\' LIFE, YOUR FRIENDS LIFE?THEY NEVER ASKED ANY HELP!!
Well you see, if they asked for help they would be gassed :)
BTW, we don\'t make sattellite guided missles just to hit civilians.
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i had something to say about unicron\'s "whack ass" opinions, but then......
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And that doesnt mean they dont end up hitting civilians does it?
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what part of the word "war" don\'t you guys comprehend
soldiers kill, civilians die
/me shrugs
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George Bush Reading his twins a fantasy story:
"When America went to Iraq, the people there will lay down their weapons and greet us as liberators. There is little to no resistance. Baghdad imploded from within, with Saddam\'s own men, tired of his dictatorship, turn on him. The citizens of Baghdad cheer as we enter their city, and await their new government, void of Saddam Hussein, only 2 weeks after we enter Iraq. America suffers few casualties, most of which are friendly fire."
This was Bush\'s mindset entering this war. Whats is happening proves his original war plan has failed, and he is drawing up a new one.
After America is done with Iraq, I will be waiting for them to disarm N. Korea, and over throw the other 102 countries with dictators and replace them with democracies.
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Originally posted by Clowd
George Bush Reading his twins a fantasy story:
"When America went to Iraq, the people there will lay down their weapons and greet us as liberators. There is little to no resistance. Baghdad imploded from within, with Saddam\'s own men, tired of his dictatorship, turn on him. The citizens of Baghdad cheer as we enter their city, and await their new government, void of Saddam Hussein, only 2 weeks after we enter Iraq. America suffers few casualties, most of which are friendly fire."
This was Bush\'s mindset entering this war. Whats is happening proves his original war plan has failed, and he is drawing up a new one.
After America is done with Iraq, I will be waiting for them to disarm N. Korea, and over throw the other 102 countries with dictators and replace them with democracies.
Strange, N. Korea has been silent. You think that little pipsqueek of a leader is a little worried now that he has witnessed how fast we have reached the front door of Baghdad?
The original war plan is to be victorious and that\'s what we will be. There is no time-line to this war and GWB has stated from the very beginning.
Ace
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Well, maybe he doesn\'t. I mean he has openly said he has wmd or something so maybe he aint worried about it.
Whatever the case, I figured arguing about this is kind of stupid now. I mean im over here defending some sicko in Iraq, while you are over there defending some rich guy that rules this country. So whatever happens happens. If in the end the US does keep Iraq\'s oil. Im not going to say I told you so. Why? B/c arguing and bitching at you prowar people and you arguing back doesn\'t really matter. We are arguing about something we don\'t control...
So in other words.........
I want ICE CREAM!
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Not pro-war, pro-America. I believe sometimes war is necessary to gain peace.
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At some point this thread needs to die.
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No spam in here, or can you not understand simple rules?
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I wonder what the anti-war people have to say about the numerous reports of anti-chemical warfare equipment found with many Iraqi troops, left behind, or surveillance of 50 gallon drums unloaded...
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50 gallon drums of what? Fuel??..water??..could be anything.
Chemical suits..I really have no explanation for that except leftovers from 91..then again..how could those just be forgotten about and left around for 12 years?
Either way...where are the weapons of mass destruction????
Can YOU answer that Mr. 20 questions??
DOnt answer b/c I know you cant. You can only speculate like everyone else..both pro-war and anti-war.
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god forbid they find some chemical weapons (which they will)
this place will be VERY quiet all of a sudden
:)
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THey haven\'t even really looked for chemical weapons yet. These chemical suits, antedotes, etc. are all things they just found while they were kicking the shit out of the Iraqis.
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kicking? more like booming.
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I\'m not discounting the fact they may have chemical weapons, I\'m dissing the way the war was pushed to the forefront in a mental period of bloodlust and trigger-happiness.
Also the story that it is to protect America is bullshit. The war is the thing that will kick off terrorist attacks most probably.
I for one won\'t be silent if chemical weapons are found as I thought they were most probably there, I just thought justification for war war pretty thin on the ground as America is just as safe now as it was five years ago and if it\'s for humanitarian reasons then they have to go and start on Zimbabwe, Turkey etc to save themselves from looking pretty damned stupid.
I just want the war to end ASAP as I\'m sick of this country losing good troops to trigger happy no-brainers in A-10s in \'friendly\' fire incidents (I hate that description, ANY bullet/rocket/bomb flying through the air is unfriendly).
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Originally posted by Green Meanie
I\'m not discounting the fact they may have chemical weapons, I\'m dissing the way the war was pushed to the forefront in a mental period of bloodlust and trigger-happiness.
Also the story that it is to protect America is bullshit. The war is the thing that will kick off terrorist attacks most probably.
I for one won\'t be silent if chemical weapons are found as I thought they were most probably there, I just thought justification for war war pretty thin on the ground as America is just as safe now as it was five years ago and if it\'s for humanitarian reasons then they have to go and start on Zimbabwe, Turkey etc to save themselves from looking pretty damned stupid.
I just want the war to end ASAP as I\'m sick of this country losing good troops to trigger happy no-brainers in A-10s in \'friendly\' fire incidents (I hate that description, ANY bullet/rocket/bomb flying through the air is unfriendly).
The amount of troops that you have lost could easily be killed with one idiot suicide bomber from a terrorist organization. THIS IS WHY WE ARE FREAKING DOING IT!!!
Sending a message to countries that harbor known terrorists that they will be dealt with is the only way to beat terrorism. If a country knows that they have a terrorist organization inside their boundaries and they do nothing about it, they need to be dealt with.
"Also the story that it is to protect America is bullshit. The war is the thing that will kick off terrorist attacks most probably."
They said this during the war in Afghanistan as well and what happened? Not a damn thing. A fruitcake blew himself up in a cafe yesterday. Dude is such a piece of crap that he can\'t even kill himself right.
"I\'m not discounting the fact they may have chemical weapons, I\'m dissing the way the war was pushed to the forefront in a mental period of bloodlust and trigger-happiness."
12 Friggen Years.
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Patience young Jedi, mankind has a recorded history of thousands of years, why has 12 years all of a sudden become a long time.
Besides, Saddam is a proud man, no sane person can expect him to roll over and have his belly tickled, that was exploited to its fullest to gain the end result of war when the method that should have been used was to keep him contained and pile in more weapons inspectors.
And don\'t use the argument "how much is it costing to keep him contained?", I\'ve just about had it with that one, putting a cost on human life is callous and stupid.
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Originally posted by videoholic
At some point this thread needs to die.
That and the Turks need to take over the rest of Cyprus. ;)
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Originally posted by luckee
50 gallon drums of what? Fuel??..water??..could be anything.
Chemical suits..I really have no explanation for that except leftovers from 91..then again..how could those just be forgotten about and left around for 12 years?
Either way...where are the weapons of mass destruction????
Can YOU answer that Mr. 20 questions??
DOnt answer b/c I know you cant. You can only speculate like everyone else..both pro-war and anti-war.
Funny you call me Mr 20 Questions and ask a bunch yourself...
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Is that all you have to respond back with shessh..you were better off not saying anything at all.
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You know why 46 000 americans wasted their life in Vietnam?
Pro War people thinks they can win and its fashionable to support their own troops in a useless war.
.
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Originally posted by Waspman
You know why 46 000 americans wasted their life in Vietnam?
Pro War people thinks they can win and its fashionable to support their own troops in a useless war.
.
WTF???
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i bet there\'s 46,000 families that would beat yer little ass for that comment waspman
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Outlined above is the difference between pro-war and anti-war.
One wants peace,........... the other kicks his arse for being different!
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peace is dead
some of us are just in denial
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!!!LOL!!!
So did anyone find out what the 50 gallon drums were filled with?
Edit: wow, my first smiley.
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I actually havent heard one more thing about those drums since it was announced. Must have been either nothing or something extremely dangerous and they arent willing to disclose. I doubt the latter b/c they would report that in a minute to further justify their cause.
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That\'s the problem with the media, there are so many incidents that they just report them all rather than sorting the wheat from the chaff, many are never heard about again.
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like the civilian plane that was shot down by a US fighter jet over southwest PA on 9/11/01 before it could reach the white house?
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b/c they all want to be the first with the details. FOX is pretty bad with that..but CNN is definately the most notorious for it.