PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Darth Joyda on March 23, 2003, 12:26:42 PM
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Rant:
I have followed the CNN news-coverage of the War nearly 24/7 since the first attack began. I know - I am a freak whom eats information for breakfast and drinks up conspiracy theories. If you want to hear a mysterious story, knock on my door. If you want alternative possibilities, explanations or opinions on any given situation, knock on my door. If you want to assassinate me, my door is open. Anyway, I came to the conclusion that this is no war - this is a take-over. It is the same as if I had asked a 7-year-old to spar with me in the local Boxing-ring yesterday. Too easy.
What is the purpose of this "war"? Oil. It is so obvious that it hurts. Terrorism and chemical weapons only serve the soup as spices - something to confuse and trick thousands of american mouths with. When will we learn to hate the ignorant qualities of Wars and Violence? I don\'t want to sound like a 50-year-old hippie, but we, as a species, should seek for survival - not destruction. Our planet is only a grain of sand within an endless desert - our problems are insignificant; meaningless. Western Religions are only excuses, enterprises driven by simple politics. "God is on our side" is the easiest way to validate a sinful action - for if God approves, then we should too. Let me underline that if there is an omni-present God, He / She / It only laughs at our hard-headed stupidity.
We fail to take the attack on Iraq as an act of terrorism - or at least the truth shouldn\'t be said out loud. We fail to look at this war from the point-of-view of those innocent residents of Iraq whose lives are in constant danger at the moment - for them, America is the haven of terrorism, not vise versa. Axis of Evil indeed.
Confusion is the word of the day. I still don\'t have a clear picture of what\'s going on within the borders of Iraq - and no, I don\'t trust CNN; given that it is an American news-channel; the easiest outlet for propaganda and false truths. I might seem as an anti-american person, but deep inside I am neutral-minded. I am not going to take sides in this "war", as there are no sides for me to choose from. Yet, who knows? Maybe there\'s something horribly wrong in Iraq - perhaps the American Goverment knows more - much more - than we do. Either way, I am just going to hold my breath and wait for this insanity to stop. I might die in the process - but then again, this world is only a place of misery, stupidity and poverty. Whether I vanish from this stage of existence or remain within it, nothing is going to change. So why even bother?
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Ehm - mods, feel free to move this topic to it\'s rightful board. I was in the heat of the moment and \'thus failed to notice the Political Forum. My apologies.
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What is the purpose of this "war"? Oil. It is so obvious that it hurts.
sorry bro, i lost ALL interest in anything you might have wanted to say when i read that.
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Originally posted by mm
sorry bro, i lost ALL interest in anything you might have wanted to say when i read that.
And why?
Do you consider Saddam to be a real threat against humanity? The truth is that Saddam doesn\'t stand a chance against USA. Bush Jr. knows this - probably knew this since the beginning. Or do you reckon that the War was based upon rumours of chemical weapons - the liberation of the people of Iraq? I very much doubt it, my friend. Oil means money, and money means power. Power is what we, as ignorant human beings, seek. We do not spend huge amounts of cash if there isn\'t a greater amount of cash behind the investment.
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Originally posted by Darth Joyda
Power is what we, as ignorant human beings, seek. We do not spend huge amounts of cash if there isn\'t a greater amount of cash behind the investment.
Exactly!
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Originally posted by mm
sorry bro, i lost ALL interest in anything you might have wanted to say when i read that.
Ditto to that man. We don\'t want nor need the oil. A small percentage actually comes from Iraq. Saddam is a threat to humanity. But thats not really the point. He\'s broken the treaty of the Geneva Convention so many times by using chemical weapons, showing POWs on TV, killing his own civilians, stockpiling on missiles that he\'s not even allowed to have. He\'s stockpiling on biological weapons. Now, when you stockpile shit like that, you have plans to use it and Hussein has.
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sorry, DJ
im not even gonna get into it with you. you have a very, VERY jaded (misinformed) view of why we are over there
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I don\'t think I made it any further than mm.
Until I hear a non idiotic viewpoint on why we shouldn\'t be getting rid of this regime, I\'m going to fully back this war.
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Here\'s a thought. Why the hell should we care what goes on with Iraqi people? Why do we have to be big brother? I\'ll be honest. I know I don\'t care how the Iraqi people are living and being treated by their goverment. It makes no difference to me if they are being slaughtered or if they are living peaceful.
Harsh? Yes. But I see no reason for us to be over there, tryin\' to get rid of these regime and "free IRAQ", when we have more problems at home that need to be taken care of. We shouldn\'t have to pay for a stupid war, for another country can be "free".
With that said - I don\'t believe this war is about freeing Iraqi people, oil or any of that. I belive it is about Bush, being in a pissing contest . Not to mention it is a nice distraction on his Osama Bin Laden "war" that he never fully delivered on .
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I made it a little further than mm and the others.
"don\'t want to sound like a 50-year-old hippie, but we, as a species, should seek for survival - not destruction."
Destruction is often a necessary solution for survival.
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"it\'s only when we\'ve lost everything, we can do anything"
shameless plug*
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Here\'s a thought. Why the hell should we care what goes on with Iraqi people?
Because they are people, just like us, who are unfairly living their lives in pain and agany simply because of one man.
The US is doing a nice thing here no matter how you look at it. Go US.
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US & allies does have advantage but it\'s not as easy as taking candy from a kid. Saddam has many hardcore troops that won\'t hesitate to go suicide bombing against US troops in the name of Islam/Saddam.
Do not believe everything u see or hear on CNN. A lot of contradicting reports are coming from other channels worldwide. Like the 8,000 Iraqi troops who were reported to have surrender now is being dismiss as a gimmick by CNN as nothing like it has said to have taken place.
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Hyvä! :)
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I Agree with most of the things DJ said in his post, except for the oil thing.
There is no such thing as a perfect country, where everyone is equal and completley free. The goal of communisim is a noble one, unfortuantly there are way too many downsides to communisim, and it fails to achieve its goal. This world is entirly ignorant, and every form of govermant is wrong. I do believe that America, is based on good ideas, but throughout the years, it has done some pretty bad things.
Our country has growing rates of poverty, and many people die every day because they cannot afford health care. Not to mention, victoms of AIDS in africa cannot afford much of the care they need, because American companys charge money, but of course, that is just capitalisim. I really dont care if I sound like a communist, but everyone in the world should have free health care, health shouldn\'t be an advantage of the wealthy, something to be profited off of.
The public education system in our country is horrible, and although president Bush is making changes to try and improve this, they will ultimatly fail. The school system makes it impossible for those living in poverty to get out, parents that can only afford the small crowded public schools with non-qualified teacher will never get their children a good education.... and then the cycle of poverty will continue.
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Disregarding my personal opinion as stupid, irrelevant and unreadable does signal ignorant behaviour. I might be jaded - aka disinformed - but it is not my fault. America\'s current military presence in Iraq serves no purpose ( read: I agree to what Living said ) and has no clear reason we, the europeans, could relate to. Saddam might have broken treaties - but if you only take into consideration the current choices the Bush administration has made - on it\'s own - the picture clearly reveals that Bush has not listened to advices nor recommendations either.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Here\'s a thought. Why the hell should we care what goes on with Iraqi people? Why do we have to be big brother? I\'ll be honest. I know I don\'t care how the Iraqi people are living and being treated by their goverment. It makes no difference to me if they are being slaughtered or if they are living peaceful.
Harsh? Yes. But I see no reason for us to be over there, tryin\' to get rid of these regime and "free IRAQ", when we have more problems at home that need to be taken care of. We shouldn\'t have to pay for a stupid war, for another country can be "free".
With that said - I don\'t believe this war is about freeing Iraqi people, oil or any of that. I belive it is about Bush, being in a pissing contest . Not to mention it is a nice distraction on his Osama Bin Laden "war" that he never fully delivered on .
With minor exception..here here!!!!!!!
Thats another thing I havent brought up yet in any war discussion. The cost of this war. Look how much good that could have done for our own citizens.
Saddam has been doing these types of things since he was 11 years old. He has been ruling Iraq for a great time now, but only in 12 years is he a problem.
I smell something.....
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This may sound a bit naive, but f*ck it, who wouldn\'t mind the price of gas for under a dollar??? Now don\'t lie answer truthfully!!!
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hmm, in no way shape or form does saddam control the price of gas, lol
try OPEC
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MAKE ME. :mad:
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?
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LIC and luckee, money will never solve the social (ie. education, class imbalance, etc.) problems in this country and to think that using the money we are spending on this war on problems such as those would actually pay off is quite naive.
That is the typical liberal view, keep throwing money into it and it will correct itself... :rolleyes:
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Call it what you want, but my view is simple. I don\'t think we need or have the right to play big brother and race to rescue anyone. It isn\'t our job and we, the people shouldn\'t have to pay for sh!t wars like this. Instead, money should go to education, helping homeless. Anything , as long as it is for OUR country.
F**k Iraq. It pisses me off, that we American\'s work and pay taxes, to pay for a war, to free Iraqi people. Espically when I could care less what happens in Iraq.
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Originally posted by mm
"it\'s only when we\'ve lost everything, we can do anything"
shameless plug*
ohhh eye.... did you think you could slip that in here without anyone notice\'n
/me shakes fist at mm for the shamless (FIGHT CLUB) Quote ;).
:p :p
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Originally posted by mm
hmm, in no way shape or form does saddam control the price of gas, lol
try OPEC
You try it.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
LIC and luckee, money will never solve the social (ie. education, class imbalance, etc.) problems in this country and to think that using the money we are spending on this war on problems such as those would actually pay off is quite naive.
That is the typical liberal view, keep throwing money into it and it will correct itself... :rolleyes:
So 80billion wont help fill under-staffed schools? It wont buy text books or enough desks for all of their students? I am fully aware that the shitty public education in many cities goes beyond simply money..but it certainly wouldnt hurt would it?
Fine..you wanna argue about education. What about health care? Health care in the US is a joke..one of the only things I like about Canada since they managed to get it right.
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Originally posted by luckee
So 80billion wont help fill under-staffed schools? It wont buy text books or enough desks for all of their students? I am fully aware that the shitty public education in many cities goes beyond simply money..but it certainly wouldnt hurt would it?
Fine..you wanna argue about education. What about health care? Health care in the US is a joke..one of the only things I like about Canada since they managed to get it right.
Sounds like you want free health care... anyway, I don\'t have a problem with the health care here - that is what health insurance is for.
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So, just because of the family someone is born into, they should die from a disease another person born into a different family would be saved from?
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I wasn\'t born into my situation, I work therefore I have health insurance. Why should somebody get free healthcare when the majority of America has to pay for it? Last time I was in the emergency room there were quite a few indigents receiving care... I am not opposed to them getting care, but those of us who pay should have priority.
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Some people born into poor familys do get a good education, but many do not. It is hard for these people to afford such health care, and they are also more vulnarable to disease in some cases, I do not think that Helath Care should be a comodity for the middle and upper classes.
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Some people born into poor familys do get a good education, but many do not. It is hard for these people to afford such health care, and they are also more vulnarable to disease in some cases, I do not think that Helath Care should be a comodity for the middle and upper classes.
Then move to Canada. :rolleyes:
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It just amazes me that you people are so gung-ho about Iraq and freeing those oh so tortured people, when this country needs a lot of work and we have MORE THAN OUR SHARE of people that need helped by our goverment. Yet they are ignored.
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What people? The homeless (most of whom don\'t want to work)? Also our government isn\'t a socialist one meaning it is not the governments responsiblility to give handouts - even though they do in the form of welfare. If you and others love socialism so much move to another country. The Netherlands comes to mind... they give money to anyone who can think up a disability.
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Yeah, i like the netherlands actualy.
And you try being homeless and getting a job, really.
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I would back up my statement with fact (there was recently a study done on the poor/homeless that suggested a large part of their situation was brought about by themselves), but I don\'t have the time to search for it. In any case, the US is not a welfare state. Regardless of your dreams of a socialist utopia, you need to come back to reality. Most of those on welfare now have no motivation to start working because they get money for doing nothing. I am sorry if you can\'t understand the principles of our society and that success for the most part is up to the individual. That is not to say some have distinct advantages over others, but for the most part (I hate this cliche) life is what you make it.
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I personally think;
Bush is trying to threebirds with one stone.
1)Get rid of Saddam and his tyranny, for the world, and his fathers sake.
2)Oil
3)More power....
The only thing I dont like about the US. Even though I am a huge patriot, and love my country dearly- its just that, well, we are power hungry, and we must call ourselves the "world police". Isnt that the U.N.\'s job? Well thats what I thought it was.
My 2cents.....
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Yea, the homeless "don\'t want to work". Right. I\'ll agree some don\'t, but other\'s are born in bad situations. And like Hamster said, try gettin\' a job and being homeless. See how much luck you get.
Free Iraq! F**k our own people!
That is what the goverment is saying.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Yea, the homeless "don\'t want to work". Right. I\'ll agree some don\'t, but other\'s are born in bad situations. And like Hamster said, try gettin\' a job and being homeless. See how much luck you get.
Free Iraq! F**k our own people!
That is what the goverment is saying.
Everyone has a chance to make what they will of themselves and to expect the government to help those that are down on their luck is idiotic. As I said, the US is not a socialist country, what is so hard to understand about that? It seems like a few of you are living in the wrong country if you expect free health care and hand outs.
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I dont expect much free from the government as I am capable of paying for what I need.
However..not everyone is lucky enough to be in the same situation.
Many jobs do not give their employees health care benefits. Some of these same employees have families to support and cannot afford getting the insurance themselves. Why should they be shut out.
The excuses you give about helping our own is the same basis I have seen you argue(among others in here) about *helping* the ppl of Iraq.
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Well, we may not be a socialist country now, but things change sometime. I think this country is in need of desperate changes right now, and hopefully, we will see some changes soon.
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Originally posted by luckee
I dont expect much free from the government as I am capable of paying for what I need.
However..not everyone is lucky enough to be in the same situation.
Many jobs do not give their employees health care benefits. Some of these same employees have families to support and cannot afford getting the insurance themselves. Why should they be shut out.
The excuses you give about helping our own is the same basis I have seen you argue(among others in here) about *helping* the ppl of Iraq.
Please point out where I have said the number 1 priority in my view has been to help the Iraqi people out. My main reason for my pro war stance is that Saddam has violated numerous UN Resolutions.
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I never said it was your number one priority. But I have seen you and others argue the help angle many times.
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Even so it is not my number one reason. Yes it is a reason, but all the same, money does not solve the answers for most of the social problems in this country.
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And like I said..80billion into education..police..fire dept...health care certainly wouldnt hurt a damn thing.
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The last thing I am going to say on this topic is... how much of that money do you really think would actually make it into the system? In any event its a pipe dream to think we could have just used that money for social programs.
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My two cents, the government should provide good health care. But the only downfall is taxes will be too high.
The only thing I dont like about the US. Even though I am a huge patriot, and love my country dearly- its just that, well, we are power hungry, and we must call ourselves the "world police". Isnt that the U.N.\'s job? Well thats what I thought it was.
In my opinion, we are always getting in the middle of things is because we are the last super power on the planet, as of now. I guess our government would go in and try and to restore order in countries of unrest. Sometimes, I do agree that they should work it out and mind our own business but your right. We are acting like police and taking matters into our own hands when a good deal of the times we shouldn\'t.
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Originally posted by mm
hmm, in no way shape or form does saddam control the price of gas, lol
try OPEC
I wasn\'t saying that Hussein controled OPEC, but if we shipped the oil from there over to us we wouldn\'t need OPEC!!!
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lol, it\'s fukn rediculous that you could possibly think we\'re gonna barrel up the oil there and start sending it to the US for use
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OPEC is not going away. If we stole their oil we would be attacked by every sain country in the world.
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lol, i can only picture US tankers driving away filled with stolen oil
i love it, ehhe
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Damn I was only speaking in a sarcastic way, I know shit would hit the fan if we started packing up oil, we do plan on doing it though, but to give Iraqi people food.
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plan on stealing a natural resource, but give them food?
i\'m gonna assume yer still being sarcastic
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Nope that is what they are talking about, food for oil program, we take there oil and we give them food, I do believe the U.N. has some part in this, I\'ve heard this on the news, so I\'m not just grabbing for shit out of my ass.
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"heard it on the news"
you said it all right there, bro
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Like the words coming out of the Presidents mouth "news"
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i highly, HIGHLY doubt GWB said "oh we\'re stealing the oil, and we\'ll give them some UN food aid in exchange"
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OK mm I guess I\'m just blowing smoke up your ass even though I heard it on tv, if I can find the speech and pick it out I\'ll get you a link
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great, find me a quote where GWB said that the US is gonna steal iraq\'s oil and throw them some food to make up for it
:rolleyes:
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For christ sake, it is a U.N. backed idea, its called Oil-for-food.
U.N. EFFORTS
Aid agencies have long warned of a humanitarian crisis in Iraq, where 12 years of economic sanctions have left some 60 percent of the 22 million people dependent on government rations distributed under the U.N.’s oil-for-food program.
The program, which began in 1996 but was suspended when war broke out, allows Iraq to sell unlimited quantities of oil to buy food, medicine and other humanitarian goods.
The governments that earlier this month blocked U.N. authority for the U.S.-British invasion want Washington to bear the financial burden of feeding and rehabilitating Iraq.
The U.N. humanitarian agencies are expected on Friday to appeal for $2.1 billion from donor nations for their planned gigantic relief program, which many governments will expect Washington and London to largely finance. More than half will go toward food.
The U.N. World Food Program hopes to get into Iraq and take over the rationing system before late April, and then run it for probably four to six months.
Iraqis have about five weeks of food left, according to estimates by the World Food Program.http://www.msnbc.com/news/887467.asp
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/me blinks in disbelief
allows Iraq to sell unlimited quantities of oil to buy food, medicine and other humanitarian goods.
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mjps21983 , its the food for oil programme ! nothing in there involves steeling ! thats what MM is talking about ! its just a simple misunderstanding !
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not a miscommunication
he\'s on this "USA are killing iraq people for thier oil!" kick
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STFU mm shit I am not, go back in your damn cave if you are going to sit here and tell me exactly what I\'m on, it was another god damn thought and I wasn\'t being serious about it, I was being cynical(sp?) about the whole situation and I was talking about one thing while you automatically took it as me saying kill Iraqi\'s for free oil that is bullshit, because thats not what I was saying thats what you interpereted it as.
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ok, but you said it like 3 times