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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Tyrant on April 08, 2003, 03:01:31 AM
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wtf? this morning us airplanes/tanks have bombed a hotel housing journalists in baghdad, one of aljazeera\'s reporters has been killed as far as i know many more have been wounded.
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"easy, just don\'t lead em as far"
- Full Metal Jacket
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That\'s what happens when you have snipers put in buildings that are supose to be off limits. You expect our military to just hang out in the streets and get shot at? I would doubt very seriously that they would fire on media. Hell if they could do that they would have shot Geraldo long ago.
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till now all news reporters (including british and other western journalists) have said they have never heard shots fired from the building.
the weird thing now is a reporter that appears so often on al-jazeera will not come on anymore,
R.I.P "Tariq Ayoub" (ina lillah wa ina elaihi rajiuoon):(.
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Vid, If that was the case, then they would have bombed mosques(sp?) and hospitals by now right? Which as of now, not even the Iraq\'s are reporting that stuff.
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You are comparing a hotel to a mosque and a hospital.
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yup..I\'ll tell you why too.
They all have in common one thing. Civilian posts that iraqi soldiers use to attack. Yet one gets bombed but the others dont?
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But there is a diffference. Check out the headlines.
"US bombs mosque"
"US bombs hospital"
"US bombs hotel"
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still what is the difference?
yes, one is holy
yes, one helps ppl...
yes, another also helps ppl, but in a different aspect.
But they all are CIVILIAN grounds.
It would be a huge deal if the Waldorf in NY got bombed.
Or if the Swiss in Chicago got bombed.
But now it isnt.
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It\'s a civilian ground taken up as a military outpost.
If we don\'t shoot at the enemy then why bother going to war?
The Mosque and the Hospitals are there to help people both during the war and after the war.
I can\'t figure out how a hotel helps people. Maybe gives them a bed and a shower?
This is a fight on civilian grounds. It\'s not like they leveled the friggen hotel.
And yes, if the Waldorf Astoria got bombed in NY it would be a huge deal. We\'re not in a war over here.
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Not yet we arent.
Anywho, that hotel can be used in the rebuilding instead of the destruction of Iraq.
It can be used as housing for those that were displaced b/c of the war either due to the coalition forces or saddam.
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btw al-jazeera\'s reporter Tariq Ayoub was not killed in the hotel strike, but when and american aircraft dropped a bomb on al-jazeera tv headquarters.
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Tryant they didn\'t target the journalists, obviously there was something going on in the vicinity (ie. building) for them to do that. It is unfortunate, but US troops get killed by "friendly fire" also.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Tryant they didn\'t target the journalists, obviously there was something going on in the vicinity (ie. building) for them to do that. It is unfortunate, but US troops get killed by "friendly fire" also.
I can\'t believe your comapring friendly fire to this
This is collateral damage
Just hope Saddam doesnt go in the hotel or where you are at. If the bombs were so smart why didnt they hit the right target? They aimed for the hotel. When has America shown respect for al-jazeera or its reporters? Your army has setup some sort of medieval seige around the city, shelling thousands of pounds of explosives and uranium and who knows what else in there. It must be hell in the city.
Those bombs that they dropped on Hussein yesterday. That was in the middle of town. Who knows what they blew up or killed. They even admitted the area was dense with civilians.
You\'ve seen the pictures of their bunker buster bombs. The mushroom cloud looks like an atomic bomb has just went off.
Why won\'t you join Bill O\'Reily and his "its the Iraqi civilians fault for not leaving" or "we need to take out their TV no matter what the cost"
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well the thing is it looks like abu dhabi tv\'s and aljazeera\'s buildings were intentially targeted they even broadcasted a video of abudhabi\'s building being hit, their was camera on top of AD tv\'s building and you could see bullets hiting the building and then a bullet hit the camera and it toppled over, when transmition was cutoff they switched to another camera which showed a tank firing a shell right into the building fortunately no-one was inside.
now one can surely make the case that the peering camera looked like a rocket launcher. but even so wiping out the entire top floor of the building was quite extreme.
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Tyrant, none of us know what really was going on in the building. As vid said before, the Iraqi paramilitary forces or troops have occupied hospitals and mosques and have used them to fire at coalition troops. This is the same tactic as using human shields and if they were in teh abu dhabi building then they were effectively using reporters as human shields.
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Originally posted by Clowd
Your army has setup some sort of medieval seige around the city, shelling thousands of pounds of explosives and uranium and who knows what else in there. It must be hell in the city.
Those bombs that they dropped on Hussein yesterday. That was in the middle of town. Who knows what they blew up or killed. They even admitted the area was dense with civilians.
Why won\'t you join Bill O\'Reily and his "its the Iraqi civilians fault for not leaving" or "we need to take out their TV no matter what the cost"
Well when you act like a barbarian you get treated like one eh Clowd?
As for O\' Reilly, he is a pretty cool guy IMO.
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And the same point was made that they didnt fire upon those or or *civilian* locations...so why now?
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Like I said luckee we don\'t know why the decision was made to do it. I am sure they had a reason. Until this war is over we won\'t know 90 percent of what is going on. Civilian casualites are unavoidable, but for the most part I think coalition forces have done a great job considering the urban warfare that has taken place. If you look at this war in context with other major battles that have taken place over the last 100 years in urban environments the US and allies have been very careful to limit civilian casualties.
The "good old days" of armies lining up in non populated areas to settle their differences ended around WWI. How many times have we seen footage of coalition troops waving civilians away from convoys for example? If the US didn\'t care about killing civilians we would have turned Baghdad into another Dresden.
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Why, b/c OUR media says so. While I know ours is much more believable than theirs, surely you dont believe everything they are saying about this war, and you seem to, which is why I bring this up.
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You people drive me insane. You find one mishap and blow it up, and even if it\'s explained it doesn\'t matter cuz it\'s always the U.S.\'s fault. SHUT THE **** UP
I watched the VIDEO on CNN. One hotel had like 100 Iraqis firing out of the windows at troops. But the one that killed the al jazeer guy had a fuking sniper by him. They retaliated and killed the sniper and the jounalist with him by accident. What? You think we just want to kill him for fun cuz we\'re bloodthirsty? Give me a break, look who is talking. They have pregnant women blow themselves up just to kill 4 people. Yeah, the U.S. troops are part of the Devils army waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh :rolleyes:
As for Clowd, shit. Bush as Napoleon? How so? We aren\'t conquering lands we\'re fuking freeing people from the horrible dictator that controls them.
There will always be civilian casualities, and mistakes. Blaming it on an entire nation and it\'s cause, well thats retarded.
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What did I just say luckee? I said we don\'t know 90 percent of what is going on and that includes the crap we get from the media.
In regards to that, the media hasn\'t really mentioned anything about the reporters other than the fact they were killed. Like I said, I don\'t know and as far I can tell the US media doesn\'t either.
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So since you have such the open mind.......
Look at some of the blind sheep *patriots* in here.
You cant tell me that they dont exsist on the battlefield as well.
Dont be ignorant.
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ViVi, as much as I agree with you, please don\'t curse. :)
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Originally posted by ViVi
You people drive me insane. You find one mishap and blow it up, and even if it\'s explained it doesn\'t matter cuz it\'s always the U.S.\'s fault. SHUT THE **** UP
I watched the VIDEO on CNN. One hotel had like 100 Iraqis firing out of the windows at troops. But the one that killed the al jazeer guy had a fuking sniper by him. They retaliated and killed the sniper and the jounalist with him by accident. What? You think we just want to kill him for fun cuz we\'re bloodthirsty? Give me a break, look who is talking. They have pregnant women blow themselves up just to kill 4 people. Yeah, the U.S. troops are part of the Devils army waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh :rolleyes:
As for Clowd, shit. Bush as Napoleon? How so? We aren\'t conquering lands we\'re fuking freeing people from the horrible dictator that controls them.
There will always be civilian casualities, and mistakes. Blaming it on an entire nation and it\'s cause, well thats retarded.
I didn\'t see the video, did the al jazeer reporter have a sniper next to him?
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i really hate to say it, i gotta agree with vivi (for once)
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Originally posted by luckee
So since you have such the open mind.......
Look at some of the blind sheep *patriots* in here.
You cant tell me that they dont exsist on the battlefield as well.
Dont be ignorant.
I can\'t believe you compared some of us on this board to our troops on the battlefield. I don\'t see the connection. We are debating/discussing... they are fighting and dying. If I were on the battlefield my top priority would be to keep myself and my buddies alive. That has nothing to do with patriotism.
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vivi, get yer facts straight, their was no sniper near the aljazeera guy, even so i doubt that a sniper no matter how good he is can put a bullet thru an airplane flying at high speed.
and as for the hotel comment is this the building yer reffering to
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwwwi.reuters.com%2Fimages%2F2003-04-08T052914Z_01_GALAXY-DC-MDF251881_RTRIDSP_2_NEWS-IRAQ-DC.jpg&hash=9892de5e2aaa438810caeb2127ceb9f0d5adfa18)
coz its not the hotel i was reffering to. this is a RG building.
even the british reporters at the hotel said their was no shots being fired from the hotel.
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Tyrant, *if* there was a sniper next to the reporter and he was shooting at troops on the ground then air support would have been called in. We don\'t know all the facts and regardless of what side of this debate you stand on there is not one person who knows what was really going on. Hell, there could have been a couple of snipers in the building for all we know. This would fit the Iraqi MO as they are using civilian places to hole up and shoot at troops wouldn\'t it?
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noone can contest that the iraqi\'s have been using civilians as suicide bomb carrier\'s and human shields
the iraqi elite army even dresses thier troops in civilians clothes and walk around with children
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Giga. like u said until this war is over there are alot of things that we wouldnt find out, but until then anything is possible.
btw this is not the first time aljazeera\'s buildings have been bombed, a similar incident occured in afghanistan.
al-jazeera have been airing a report on "Tariq", they were talking about him and his family, worst thing is he leaves behind a 1 year old baby girl, i hate it when they aire reports like this.
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I agree Tyrant, but journalists know the risks when they cover war. I haven\'t heard about the bombing in Afghanistan though.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
I can\'t believe you compared some of us on this board to our troops on the battlefield. I don\'t see the connection. We are debating/discussing... they are fighting and dying. If I were on the battlefield my top priority would be to keep myself and my buddies alive. That has nothing to do with patriotism.
So either you are.----nope..wont go there.
Check this out if you want to understand.
The blind sheep patriot thing relates very well. No matter what, so of you will do nothing but be spoon fed and accept everything your govt. does and says. Same as the soldiers..more so b/c they are ordered to, but even still, the comparo is quite fair.
You cant tell me no US or Brit soldiers purposely shot at civilians. Just like no americans harassed and beat arab ppl up in the US after 9/11.
Try again if you wish. If you still dont understand, maybe I can draw it in crayon and stick figures for you.
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Sigh... Is it a hobby of yours to question everything that is reported? Over half of the information that we get out of Iraq comes from the media (US, Arab, British) so your comment about being spoon fed is irrelevant. There have been numerious incidents of misreporting events so far and this incident will have a question mark by it for some time.
As for purposely shooting civilians... did they shoot them just for fun? I highly doubt it. Were the civilians innocent? Maybe they were, but when a soldier is on the battlefield and feels threatened he is authorized to shoot. What about those soldiers that didn\'t shoot and died? The pregnant woman and the car bomb? The taxi driver? Come on luckee, unless you have ever been in war you can\'t possibly understand how hard it is to know who is a threat and who isn\'t. Sure mistakes happen, but back to the original point of this topic, the only people that know the truth are those that were there.
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Like I said...
Check this out if you want to understand.
The blind sheep patriot thing relates very well. No matter what, so of you will do nothing but be spoon fed and accept everything your govt. does and says. Same as the soldiers..more so b/c they are ordered to, but even still, the comparo is quite fair.
You cant tell me no US or Brit soldiers purposely shot at civilians. Just like no americans harassed and beat arab ppl up in the US after 9/11.
Try again if you wish. If you still dont understand, maybe I can draw it in crayon and stick figures for you.
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You are mixing apples and oranges. Making some text bold does not prove your point. ;)
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.usatoday.com%2Fnews%2F_photos%2F2003%2F04%2F08-inside-hotel.jpg&hash=f5f8eb2a8ce9c8509703c7b3300ca65a3b547013)
U.S. Army Col. David Perkins, commander of the 3rd Infantry Division\'s 2nd Brigade, said Iraqis fired rocket-propelled grenades at tanks from in front of the hotel, and the military, scanning the area for observation posts, saw the binocular and fired. The tanks were also taking fire from mortars.
He said the military regrets what happened and was ordering troops not to fire on the hotel, but he placed the blame squarely on Saddam Hussein.
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Originally posted by ViVi
As for Clowd, shit. Bush as Napoleon? How so? We aren\'t conquering lands we\'re fuking freeing people from the horrible dictator that controls them.
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do you prefer this?
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I name the recent operation the "keep them shut up" mission.
Al jazeera gets hit, Abu Dhabi Tv gets hit, reporters from various nationalities get hit in the Palestain hotel.
The tank was directy targeting the hotel.
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napoleon or hitler?
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Clowd:
Retarded or piece of shit?
both
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Originally posted by Unicron!
I name the recent operation the "keep them shut up" mission.
Al jazeera gets hit, Abu Dhabi Tv gets hit, reporters from various nationalities get hit in the Palestain hotel.
The tank was directy targeting the hotel.
their excuse is that the tank recieved fire from inside the hotel.
so, America, the country who strives its best to reduce civilian casualties, fires shells into a hotel that is known to have reporters inside.
Vivi...don\'t deny the likeness
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any bets on low long before luckee, ace, or luke remove clowd\'s access?
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I wonder how the U.S. would be if Clowd was president :laughing:
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you remind me of those security guards who told the guy wearing the "give peace a chance" shirt to leave the mall or take it off.
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You remind me of Forest Gump
Hey, did I ever say I never want peace. I do, but it takes lives to save lives.
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honestly, a country ran by spineless leader (clowd) frieghtens me
GWB and tony blair might sound like idiots sometimes (don\'t all world leaders), but they got balls
clowd can say all he likes, but it\'s moronic to say the US shouldnt be in iraq and slander them for doing it
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Originally posted by ViVi
You remind me of Forest Gump
Hey, did I ever say I never want peace. I do, but it takes lives to save lives.
Why dont YOU go to war:mad:?You dont realise it but we arent very far away from WW3.
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This image should be self explanatory
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LOL!!!:laughing: pffffffBOUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!Thats a good one Cloud.
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Clowd I mean this with all my heart, you sir are a joke.
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i smell a troll....
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OT here, but did Clowd miss-spell Cloud or Clown?
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Why dont YOU go to war:mad:?You dont realise it but we arent very far away from WW3.
I second Chizzy\'s idea of giving Cyprus to the Turks.
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Agh just when i was -thinking- Clowd may have some good opinions, he has to do an idiotic thing like post dumbass shit like pictures of hitler and bush.
There goes all anti-war credibilty.... :\\
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Welp, looks like a few of our ignorant and immature members have ruined another thread.
Clowd, Vivi, and Unicorn...consider yourselves warned.
Unicorn, I dare you to continue this today as you are a hair away from being gone.