PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: clowd on April 08, 2003, 02:10:55 PM
-
It seems to me that you Americans think you know that war is hell. You think you know what goes on, but when you are face to face with it you turn away and run to "artistic" pictures that glorify war as "getting the bad guy with style".
If you want war so much, and think its the right thing to do, why are afraid to see what it does? Why are you scared to see its horrors?
What is this gun ho attitude that so many Americans tend to exhibit? The "LETS GO GET THEM!" attitude.
Im sure none of them have seen these pictures (graphic content)
Thankfully for me, my father has talked to me about the horrors of war. He has told me some of the most gruesome stories imagineable. And because of that I have a general idea of what war is about. I won\'t say war is hell, because I havent seen it myself. Only my father and other military or civilans in the war can say that.
The American media needs to stop putting flowers and perfume on shit with their pictures and heart warming tales of things that went right.
They need to show the things that went wrong. They need to show what happens when bombs dont hit where they are suppose to. What happens when you drop a 5,000 bomb in the middle of a city. It sends a shrill down my spine to think of how many people puff up with pride when they hear about how many bombs theU.S. has dropped in Iraq.
-
My dads in the military so I know what war is like. Hell, I don\'t mind going to war. We all die eventually, might as well die for a good cause instead of on a bed from cancer. But thats me.
-
there is no rational reason for people to look at those pics here, hence i removed the link
if they wanna seek them out on thier own, thats fine
it does nothiing to aid yer discussion or warped opinions
-
Originally posted by mm
there is no rational reason for people to look at those pics here, hence i removed the link
if they wanna seek them out on thier own, thats fine
it does nothiing to aid yer discussion or warped opinions
that link was for the warmongers, I want them to see what they crave.
-
bah, what the hell makes you think you are any better than them?
it still insults me to think you would have left saddam alone
you sir, are a coward and a shame to your country you live in
-
maybe because the peaceniks are right and everything they say is right :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by mm
bah, what the hell makes you think you are any better than them?
it still insults me to think you would have left saddam alone
you sir, are a traitor and a shame to your country you live in
then maybe ill "go back where I came from" as so many of you like to put it.
Im angry at the "reasons" behind this war and the hypocrisy of the U.S.
-
angry?
wtf are you angry about?
honestly, if the "war" makes you angry, you NEED to seek counseling
-
It should upset you clowd not make you want to punch bush in the face :laughing: So when our troops come home, are you gonna boo them? Listen, they are there now, repect them, support them and hope they come home in one piece.
-
yeah, they\'re doing a damn job just like you do (if you have one)
those fukrs get paid to go out and take people\'s life for what they believe in, and possibly sacrifice thier own
AND, they do this voluntarily
show some respect
-
I\'m angry at the biggest hypocrite of them all-
clowd
seriously, nobody- either in person or not, has ever made me this mad. If you lived near me, I would find out where you lived and then hypocritically kick your mutherF*cking ass. You make me sick.
go die.
-
Most people know what war is like, but I don\'t think you know what Iraq is like for the citizens. You have it so good as a U.S. citizen. You would be dead now if you were in Iraq protesting against what the government is doing, thought you should know.
-
What is going on here? You all attack Clowd on everything BUT the point he posted about. Why don\'t you try addressing his point or refuting his argument, instead of crap like "it still insults me to think you would have left saddam alone ... you sir, are a coward and a shame to your country you live in"
TO REMIND YOU, I\'ll reiterate some of the questions at hand:
Does the american public have an realistic notion of what war is?
Do they need to have this understanding to make intelligent decisions about supporting or opposing a war?
Is the media or the Bush administration shielding us from a clear picture of modern warfare?
-
You would be dead now if you were in Iraq protesting against what the government is doing, thought you should know.
OMFG! why do people think we\'re over there?
if an iraqi citizen speaks out against saddam or his regime....he dies. so does his family. they dissapear in the middle of the night and get buried in the desert
realistic notion of what war is?
one word...
VIETNAM
there\'s yer god damn realization
americans see war on the TV everytime they turn it on
clowd has no points, he\'s a troll
he likes to copy and paste, and to ruffle people\'s feathers
-
Yes, americans see war on television, but what they\'re usually seeing is some hollywood movie about a past war, or some fantastical absurdity like Arnold Schwartzeneggar mowing down 100s of terrorists in an afternoon.
The question is whether americans have seen a true picture of modern warfare. In the 21st century, the body count is carefully cleaned up before they let even the "embedded" reporters near it. Damage inflicted by the big nasty stuff like aeral bombardment is usually shown through a nightvision camera from 1000 feet above.
I\'m not saying the media has a responsibility to shove blood in the faces of their viewers... I\'m just saying that individual civilians should recognize the extent of things they DON\'T KNOW ABOUT before being so quick to call for war. The ability to admit that you\'re not an expert on something and don\'t know what you\'re talking about is a mark of maturity in my opinion.
BTW, even the 16mm combat footage from Vietnam was cleaned up by Pentagon censors. How many of the pro war contingent on this forum were alive during the Vietnam war, or have even seen a movie about it or read a book?
-
it\'s a shame that you guys think people can\'t comprehend what "war" is, unless they look at mutilated bodies
alot of people out there in middle america might be ignorant (especially the ones in oklahoma), but they aren\'t stupid
:rolleyes:
-
Real War (http://altimus-labs.com/hawk/realwar.zip)
-
I\'ll bet most of you who voted in this poll voted wrong. Clowd negated his question, so you should have voted the opposite of the way you think you should. Nice going man. :(
Ryu, I\'m going to need some description of what that is before I unzip it. Sorry, I\'m cautious that way.
-
ill kick all your asses
bring that shit to my face pretty boy
-
lol, unzipping it is safe
and ryu....i love you, man
-
your the fuking troll
you and your little group
-
You\'re not helping yourself Clowd. Chill out.
-
i\'m sorry yer frustrated clowd
it\'s tough when you try and have views that contradict normal rational thought and try to impress people with them
-
I have nothing against anybody voicing thier opinions in this forum, no matter what they are. But Clowd, your just making yourslef lok like a complete jackass here. Why don\'t you go eat some cereal and watch tv and think about how smart you are. That should make you feel better.
-
Originally posted by Luke
I have nothing against anybody voicing thier opinions in this forum, no matter what they are. But Clowd, your just making yourslef lok like a complete jackass here. Why don\'t you go eat some cereal and watch tv and think about how smart you are. That should make you feel better.
here here
i mean i voice my Strong opinion Against the war (had many a fight with Ace and Gmanjoe).
But like i said as soon as the fighting started i would put my support behind our forces who are willling to risk their lifes for both our and the Iraqi Peoples Freedom.
-
I can\'t believe clowd is insinuating that pictures of mutilated bodies can make one comprehend the horrors of war more so than those that don\'t see them.
-
None of us will ever grasp war until you have seen it, I for one have a father who was there in 91 and will be leaving again soon to this new one. I will never ask him what it\'s like for the fact that I don\'t want to know!
-
I couldn\'t do it. I was in a riot once and it was pretty freaky. Especially since I was one of the people the rioters was rioting against.
-
clowd, how dare you.
If it wasnt for Americans you\'d be speaking German, you European piece of trash.
-
hey joe there is non of that shit on these boards, unless you want to get banned real quick
-
Joe, it\'s much better to try and persuade someone with facts or reasoning.
Ace
-
But you can\'t reason with Clowd so it\'s pointless.
-
And I believe clowd is American, isn\'t he?
-
Well it\'s hard to call him American. I think he\'s stated several times how much he dislikes it here or hates america or something. I dunno. I zone out on half of his posts.
-
America is showing its true colors
200 years of corruption
They won\'t change
That is why my heart looks down upon this government, and any government for that matter. I shall go back to my neutral state of mind. When somebody asks me "Do you see what is going on over in Iraq?"
I will say "It\'s sad." and nothing more.
Because I know much worst then this will happen in the coming months, years, so if I let this get to me, how will I be able to take what is coming?
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
I can\'t believe clowd is insinuating that pictures of mutilated bodies can make one comprehend the horrors of war more so than those that don\'t see them.
Looking at a picture is not the same as looking at it in person. No, pictures won\'t show you the horrors of war or whatever. But you have to look at it from the point of view of the people that DO see this THAT have seen this and that have gone through this.
My 3 year old brother was watching tv the day that Baghdad was first bombed. He asked me if people were dying.....What was I supposed to tell a 3 year old kid about war?
"It\'s being fought for a very very good cause and as soon as the war is over they will find that cause."?
Or that only the "bad" people are dying??
I don\'t see why you people like to **** clowd up so much. Why is he so ignorant? Because he doesn\'t see things the way you do? Because he isn\'t as gifted and intellectually capable of grasping reality and the true meanings behind all this like you think you do?
How many of you have actually seen a mutilated body from a loved one? How many of you have seen someone being shot by the people that have come to "liberate" you? How many of you have seen a bomb explode killing your friends and family??
I support the troops. I hope that whatever they do everything goes right for them. In the other hand, Screw Bush and all republicans. Sure its great that the US and the other forces are freeing this country, but you also have to realize that this is in fact a step of the building of the US empire and rule or whatever. That this is another "conquered" country. Wether the people control it or not. Now, it\'s basically US property.
-
Originally posted by Clowd
Because I know much worst then this will happen in the coming months, years
Like what?
-
clowd, european?
please don\'t confuse neutral with ignorant, its dangerous
it\'s easier to cry about the problem, then do something about it
-
..hmm you managed to insult me 3 times in 3 sentences. Wow your so witty. You don\'t know me or my background
Since I am just some person who is trying to impress other people with what you call radical beliefs, why not ignore me? Or just ban me so you don\'t have to listen to me anymore?
Luke you will see, that is my answer.
-
Originally posted by SirMystiq
My 3 year old brother was watching tv the day that Baghdad was first bombed. He asked me if people were dying.....What was I supposed to tell a 3 year old kid about war?
I don\'t see why you people like to **** clowd up so much. Why is he so ignorant? Because he doesn\'t see things the way you do? Because he isn\'t as gifted and intellectually capable of grasping reality and the true meanings behind all this like you think you do?
How many of you have actually seen a mutilated body from a loved one? How many of you have seen someone being shot by the people that have come to "liberate" you? How many of you have seen a bomb explode killing your friends and family??
I support the troops. I hope that whatever they do everything goes right for them. In the other hand, Screw Bush and all republicans. Sure its great that the US and the other forces are freeing this country, but you also have to realize that this is in fact a step of the building of the US empire and rule or whatever. That this is another "conquered" country. Wether the people control it or not. Now, it\'s basically US property.
You have no clue what the hell you are talking about...
I feel sorry for your 3 year old brother in that he has to rely on you for explanations... :rolleyes:
clowd is as ignorant as are you mystik
When have you seen a mutilated body of a "loved one"? Don\'t even try and make up something either. Like your fake girlfriend, etc. Did the Federalis get some of your family??? :rolleyes:
Lastly, Iraq is not US Property nor do we want it. The days of colonialism are long gone so stop beating a dead horse. Get over your hatred of Bush just because he didn\'t "keep his promise" to all the illegal mexican aliens living in this country. Frankly, I don\'t think he would ever get a bill passed that gave them all citizenship. Don\'t try to deny that is the real reason you don\'t like him as you have stated it as the very reason you don\'t like him in a previous post.
-
clowd, i dun have to know you
yer views are more whacked then anyone i\'ve ever met
if it was u to you, we would live in caves and never speak to each other
-
Originally posted by Clowd
America is showing its true colors
200 years of corruption
They won\'t change
That is why my heart looks down upon this government, and any government for that matter. I shall go back to my neutral state of mind. When somebody asks me "Do you see what is going on over in Iraq?"
I will say "It\'s sad." and nothing more.
Because I know much worst then this will happen in the coming months, years, so if I let this get to me, how will I be able to take what is coming?
Whoaooo that sounds so whacked up it could have come from the Patriot storyline at the end of Metal Gear Solid 2.
-
Originally posted by Clowd
Luke you will see, that is my answer.
of course it is.
-
Clowd, if you don\'t like America, get the hell out.
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
You have no clue what the hell you are talking about...
I feel sorry for your 3 year old brother in that he has to rely on you for explanations... :rolleyes:
clowd is as ignorant as are you mystik
When have you seen a mutilated body of a "loved one"? Don\'t even try and make up something either. Like your fake girlfriend, etc. Did the Federalis get some of your family??? :rolleyes:
Lastly, Iraq is not US Property nor do we want it. The days of colonialism are long gone so stop beating a dead horse. Get over your hatred of Bush just because he didn\'t "keep his promise" to all the illegal mexican aliens living in this country. Frankly, I don\'t think he would ever get a bill passed that gave them all citizenship. Don\'t try to deny that is the real reason you don\'t like him as you have stated it as the very reason you don\'t like him in a previous post.
What don\'t I have a clue about?
Do you? Who the **** is going to run Iraq? Tell me that. Who is going to set up the government for the Iraqi people? Tell me that.
I didn\'t say I\'ve ever seen a mutilated body. I asked if you have? You seem so sure that you don\'t have to live through a war in order to understand the terrors of a war. Because you never have. I\'ts easy to say, "It\'s a War, people will die". Because you are not one of them.
I don\'t like Bush for that very reason. Also he is a Republican. Also because he decided to make this war happen, and lots of other things. So Bush can GTH, and you can too.
-
Originally posted by ooseven
Whoaooo that sounds so whacked up it could have come from the Patriot storyline at the end of Metal Gear Solid 2.
whacked up? before calling something "whacked up" ask the author of the post what they meant
"America is showing its true colors"
America is showing that it still has colonialism and greedy ways
"200 years of corruption"
From the pilliaging of the indians to slavery to hiroshima to all it\'s chemical tests to it\'s killing sanctions
"they won\'t change"
They have done these things for 200 years. They won\'t change
"That is why my heart looks down upon this government, and any government for that matter. I shall go back to my neutral state of mind. When somebody asks me "Do you see what is going on over in Iraq?"
I will say "It\'s sad." and nothing more. "
I have never had faith in any government. I look down on their greedy ways. I want to be neutral so I don\'t get angry over the injustices and say things I regret. So I will simply say "It is sad." and not get involved with these arguments. But you guys still bring up the most rediculous things! Things like Saddam without WMDs is a threat to the world. I\'m trying to stay out of these arguments...
"Because I know much worst then this will happen in the coming months, years, so if I let this get to me, how will I be able to take what is coming? "
So many people have died or are dying in Iraq because of greed or whatever the unjust reasons is. It is like a knife through my heart. But I must strengthen myself. Because worst wars and injustices will occur in the future. So, if this hurts me so much, how will I be able to take what is going to happen?
SirMystic...
You are the type that makes me sad and regretful of calling all Americans racist and evil for following their government no matter what.
You have the humility of a child, which is why stubborness or nationalism does not block your view of seeing things the way they are. You see the American government do things you know are not right, but America is the country that gives more freedom then anyone. So alot of people are afraid to question it. I know you and alot of Americans are torn. I never got real patriotic with America so the effect isn\'t too tough on me.
I too have child like humility, and it is the only way to see things clearly.
-
slavery......
clowd, you ignorant bastard
WHO started the slave trade?
WHO propagated it\'s duration?
WHO profited most from it\'s existance?
WHO willingly provided the slaves?
WHO sacrificed thier own people and children for money?
oh yeah, not america
grrrrr, i refuse to read the rest of yer post
-
Originally posted by SirMystiq
What don\'t I have a clue about?
Do you? Who the **** is going to run Iraq? Tell me that. Who is going to set up the government for the Iraqi people? Tell me that.
I didn\'t say I\'ve ever seen a mutilated body. I asked if you have? You seem so sure that you don\'t have to live through a war in order to understand the terrors of a war. Because you never have. I\'ts easy to say, "It\'s a War, people will die". Because you are not one of them.
I don\'t like Bush for that very reason. Also he is a Republican. Also because he decided to make this war happen, and lots of other things. So Bush can GTH, and you can too.
Iraqis are going to run Iraq or don\'t you watch the news? The fighting isn\'t even over completely and you claim you know what is going to happen :rolleyes:
I have served in the military - or don\'t you completely read my posts? I am not even going to address the body issue.
Me go to hell? Why would I want to go to Mexico? ;)
-
Colonial ways???? WTF??? The Phillipines is the closest thing you could try stick to America as colonialism. America was a colony before it was even a country and the last time I checked the US didn\'t have any colonies in the Middle East or Africa unlike some of our European friends had during the last century.
Take a look at any colonial map of Africa prior to and after WWI and you won\'t find any mention of the USA. It was the French, Belgians, British, Germans among others. One only need look at one nation for both Central and South America (well maybe 2 - Portugal did colonize Brazil). Learn some history clowd and then come back and make valid accusations.
Oh looky, I found a map of Colonial Africa for you Clowd:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/afri1914.htm
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Iraqis are going to run Iraq or don\'t you watch the news? The fighting isn\'t even over completely and you claim you know what is going to happen :rolleyes:
I have served in the military - or don\'t you completely read my posts? I am not even going to address the body issue.
Me go to hell? Why would I want to go to Mexico? ;)
Yes I watch the news, the people aren\'t going to set up their own government. US officials are. Are they going to vote and select one that the people want? Probably not because it will take too much time. I do watch the news, and I know they already sent some guy that was supposed to put up this "new" government for Iraq. The point is he is a US official. Not an Iraqi citizen.
Yep, so anyways have you ever been to Mexico?
Clowd...
Thank you very much. I do have the humility of a kid, also I probably watched too many movies. But thats ok though!!
-
don\'t bother giga
clowd is like a horse with blinders
tunnel vision
-
I like how Clowd hears some leftist stuff and try to act like he\'s an authority on the material. But mm just mentioned what gives him away: he also likes to be selective with his facts. Sometimes he goes further and makes assumptions that aren\'t true. Clowd, I nomimate you for the "Biggest Douche In Psx2Central" award.
-
Clowd you still never answered my question.
You talk alot of shit about "whats going to happen next".
when I ask you what your talking about all you say is "You will see".
You do realize that just makes it look even more like you have no idea what your talking about right?
I know, I know, your gonna post something after me with a whole lotta words that really don\'t say much except for "I\'m smart and I know whats going on"
You guy\'s wanna know the truth?
well... None of us really have ANY clue as to whats really going on. Think about what you hear on the news, or read in the newspaper and then realize that there is probably sooooo much stuff being kept from us that we can ramble and ramble and ramble on and if someone were to come in here and read this shit and ACTUALLY KNOW what\'s going on they would laugh and say we have no clue what were talking about... It\'s still good fun though.
Clowd... As much as you THINK you know what\'s going on, you don\'t. But that holds true to everybody.
Give me something other than "I\'ll kick all your asses"
or
"you will see"
Maybe then I\'ll take you a little more seriously... Then again maybe not.
Man, nevermind... I don\'t even care anymore.
Too much coffee this morning.
-
whacked up? before calling something "whacked up" ask the author of the post what they meant
"America is showing its true colors"
America is showing that it still has colonialism and greedy ways
"200 years of corruption"
From the pilliaging of the indians to slavery to hiroshima to all it\'s chemical tests to it\'s killing sanctions
"they won\'t change"
They have done these things for 200 years. They won\'t change
What are you talking about? How are we being greedy by liberating a whole nation? By giving people the freedom to live a happy life were being greedy? And how are we showing colonialism? Are we taking Iraq and making it part of us? No, we getting rid of a government who is run by a lunatic. They\'re going to keep the land.
200 years of corruption......how can you say that? Sure we took land from indians but back when we did this nobody thought this was wrong! If you think that would happen in this day and age your crazy. It\'s the same thing with slavery, when there was slavery it wasnt wrong.
Clowd, the past is the past, your arguing about the present.
-
and don\'t act like america was the only country to ever use slaves
:rolleyes:
-
Clowd\'s being owned by a 12 year old.. Nice......