PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: videoholic on April 10, 2003, 05:04:11 PM
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Personally I think they will find plenty to justify this war, but what if?
Do you think the looks on the faces of the citizens is enough to show the world just how repressed they were by this dictator? I mean story after story of the evil this man posessed just keeps being told by the people.
Is that not enough?
I just hope they get more military in there to take control of the cities. But that\'s for another topic.
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they got rid of saddam, thats enough for me
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Originally posted by mm
they got rid of saddam, thats enough for me
me too
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Me 3...
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Not me. This was suppose to be stopping some big "smoking gun" and we have yet to find that "smoking gun". If they don\'t find it and I won\'t be surprised if they don\'t find them, then I regard this war as unnessarcy and a complete diaster.
Getting rid of Saddam? Give me a break. There is worst countries where people need liberated, yet we ignore them.
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exactly my thoughts LIC..hell, I brought this thread up a few weeks ago and it was dismissed.
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saddam was my smoking gun
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meh, in this case I think the ends justify the means - even if I didn\'t like it too much.
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I feel the same way avatarr. Would we have ever gone to war without the notion of WMD? No, I doubt it. We\'d probably be toying with North Korea right now.
But now that we are half way through this thing (Not by time, but by function - Baath party is out of power) I think it was well worth it.
I mean why should the world just sit back and not do anything about a group of people torchering hundreds of thousands of people to death and terrorising the other several million people in his country.
I\'d rather spend money liberating these countries with these awful dictators than repaving the interstate near my house for the 4th time in 7 years.
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You don\'t have to conqueor a country to take out 4 people
If Saddam was your smoking gun why not just take him out? As this one guy put it take Baghdad from the inside out?
If America said it was going to war to remove evil Saddam they would have even less backing in the U.N. then they do now.
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So what about the other 112 countries with leaders worse or similar to saddam?
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The way I look at it we were just finishing a job left undone for the past 12 years. The UN handcuffed the opportunity to take him out during the Gulf War. It is not as simple as just getting him and his family as anyone can see with our attempts to get him these past three weeks.
A lot of talk about the CIA assassinating him was going on here before the war and it has become very evident that doing so would be near impossible without invading the country. Without his seat of power this guy is history whether he is alive or dead. If we didn\'t get him, he lacks the power to do anything major now.
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clowd, i REALLY wish you would think before typing. honestly
luckee, name some countries with prolific leaders worse than saddam
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North Korea, Iran, Lebannon, countless African nations, South American nations, etc..
Your turn :)
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North Korea is the only one I agree with.
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For the past three weeks the coallition forces have done the deer hunter equivalent of walking through the woods with bells on every limb and a megaphone glued to his mouth, Saddam knew where we were before we did.
If the SAS (maybe 8 of them) can take an embassy, kill all bad guys and be out in 30 seconds (and this was 13 years ago) then a stealth hit must have been possible with more men and fat more advanced technology.
There are words in the dictionary like quiet, stealth, tact, hide, the list is endless.
We just chose to bomb loudly instead, hence the hassle finding him.
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One country at a time. Jeez. We\'re not even finished with Iraq yet! :p
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I bet nothing comes of any other country for many,many years.
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We need to leave N. Korea alone. They are china\'s next door neighbor, and China does not want democracy close to them. Things have changed since we fought Korea the first time. For one N.K. and China both have nukes now that can hit the u.s.
So far as Sadaam goes. So what if he brutalizes his people? This happens everyday, and it happens even in this country. Every goverment that I have seen thinks it is god.
It\'s human nature to pick on things that are weaker than yourself. Look at small children. They are by far some of the cruelest people on earth. School children taunt weaker children in a never ending cycle that scars for a lifetime.
It\'s all bs politics, and I no longer care one way or another.
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when did n korea\'s leader murder and gas his own people?
i dun see the citizens living in fear
nice try to just name some hot spots, and places you\'ve heard on the news
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How about Zimbabwe, I know some Zimbabweans (white ones) and they\'re pretty worried, but we won\'t help them though.
I hope I\'m proved wrong and we do something soon.
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help them with what?
they don\'t how the savages run things in zimbabwe?
countries like that are threats to themselves and noone else
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My point proven.
I give up.
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you never had a point
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Originally posted by Green Meanie
How about Zimbabwe, I know some Zimbabweans (white ones) and they\'re pretty worried, but we won\'t help them though.
I hope I\'m proved wrong and we do something soon.
Save your breath buddy
Zimbabwe is a British issue (plus they only threaten its own people) and as a result it will be left to us to deal with it.
expect it to be either
[list=A]
- Ignored
- Threatend politicaly
- Threatend economicaly
- Threatend through force
Thats it ... nothing more or less.
i wouldn\'t expect or ask America to get involved in one of our problems.
lets just say i am with you on this one GM in seeing a operation Zimbabwean Freedom, and for those THUGS to be toppled from power !
or for "President" :rolleyes: Robert Mugabe to swing by a rope from the nearest lamp post !.
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It\'s horrendous what\'s going on out there, the world just doesn\'t seem to care that white owned farms are being looted and people raped, tortured and killed, all on orders from that animal Mugabe.
The US was in as much danger from Iraq as it is from Zim but it\'ll be ignored as Zim isn\'t a grudge match possibility.
Edit: You could probably fit a reigime change in between cricket and afternoon tea with the coallition forces really going for it.
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think to yerself why the "white farmers" are there in the 1st place
that will ease your pain
US (or any other county) in danger from zimbabwe?
:laughing:
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Originally posted by Clowd
You don\'t have to conqueor a country to take out 4 people
If Saddam was your smoking gun why not just take him out? As this one guy put it take Baghdad from the inside out?
If America said it was going to war to remove evil Saddam they would have even less backing in the U.N. then they do now.
so, you remove saddam, then someone takes the plate.. Then what?
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They\'ve been there since the 1850s.
How would you feel if all your farmers were being scalped by Native Americans?
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again, why are they there?
im SO glad you compared them to the native americans
it strengthens my argument
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All I\'m wondering is how you\'d feel if Native Americans started on US citizens, I reckon you\'d not like it one bit and would want action taken.
It\'s would be the same situation but with a different set of accents.
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lol, green
let me spill it out for you
american indians didnt target frontiermen UNTILL we encroached on thier lands, and used them cheaply for our own purpose!
"white farmers" are using land for next to nothing in zimbabwe and probably pay 3 cents a day for hired hands.
radical revolutionary parties see these "white farmers" getting rich off the blood and sweat of thier people, and no wonder thier pissed.
guess ya takes the wind right out of the comparison, dont it?
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I\'m not sure what to say to get through what I\'m trying to say, most rational things haven\'t worked, shit that\'s it, I\'m talking to Americans, rational isn\'t a good approach.
I really do give up, four members of these boards pick holes for the sake of picking holes when any five year old could read and understand what I\'m saying.
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how long ago did you guys end yer occupation of hong kong?
yeah, thats real rational
you should thank americans you not eating kraut for breakfast every rational morning
yer trying to compare whats happening in iraq to whats happening in zimbabwe, and the US should go help the wealthy, greedy, "white farmers"?
:rolleyes:
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I\'m completely ashamed of the UKs history.
It\'d be nice to meet an American that can admit to their horrific history.
Settlers raped and burned their way through thousands of years of Native American tradition, they attacked because the early settlers were in no way justified to be there, they just moved in and took it.
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Originally posted by mm
how long ago did you guys end yer occupation of hong kong?
yeah, thats real rational
you should thank americans you not eating kraut for breakfast every rational morning
yer trying to compare whats happening in iraq to whats happening in zimbabwe, and the US should go help the wealthy, greedy, "white farmers"?
:rolleyes:
sorry mm\'y but action would be sanctioned to protect the REAL Zimbabweans from "President" Robert Mugabe who has butchered more of his own people than he has Rich White farmers.
in fact he\'s doing even more damage to the country with him keeping both home grown food and food aid from the people.
in short he’s a b@stard that needs removing hence the Saddam parallel.
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i\'m not ashamed of UK\'s history, nor am i ashamed of US\'s history
green, in case you forgot, we left you. we left yer religious tyranny that puts what saddam is doing to shame
but thats centuries ago.
they just moved in and took it.
hey, sounds like "white farmers" in zimbabwe
ooseven, how is that a threat to the rest of the world?
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we won fair and square, it\'s human nature. Get over it. Every human civilization has something to be ashamed about, if they want to spend their time on this planet feeling ashamed. I\'m just riding through space on this big rock for a miniscule amount of time. I\'m not gonna waste it feeling sorry for our species.
Either climb to the top, or get outta the way- I\'m not gonna wait around for you.
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Originally posted by mm
ooseven, how is that a threat to the rest of the world?
did i say there was... NO !
and there is none not unless your Zimbabwean who has been arrested and tortured for no reason what so ever.
but than again what were the chances that 3rd world Iraqi, equiped with backward weaponary was ever a threat to the world :rolleyes:
the Iraq war was to get rid of a Dictatorship, nothing more or less.
WoMD is they are ever found are just another reason to justify the pre-emptive.
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This conversation\'s bullshit, I could say 2 plus 2 equals 4 at the moment and I\'d get royally dissed off the face of the planet as per usual.
And to quote you MM "hey sounds like white farmers in Zimbabwe", I\'ll try another way.
Would you or would you not want action taken if Native Americans kicked off because they wanted their land back?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
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but there was more
saddam is a threat to the rest of the civilized world, the leader of zimbabwe is not
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Originally posted by mm
but there was more
saddam is a threat to the rest of the civilized world, the leader of zimbabwe is not
sorry buddy but your confusing
Threat to rest of world with
Threat to Israel (come on lets face it what country in the middle east doesn\'t want to see them burn in flames)
Threat to US political interests (which is fine because you felt threatened and need to act)
Threat to UK political interests (which is also fine beacuse we feal the need to keep our special relationship qoing smoothly).
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umm, we\'re oin the same page bro
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I\'ll take the silence to mean you can\'t answer my question.
Answer yes and my case is closed.
Answer no and you\'re either very tolerant or lying.
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Im still waiting for someone to display how Saddam is a threat to the world.
He hasn\'t been, still isn\'t, and if left in power, probably still wouldnt be.
Thats basically why I knew Saddam had little to nothing of importance or our intelligence and satellites would have picked it up.
Either way...it isnt over yet and he may very have them after all.
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Originally posted by mm
umm, we\'re oin the same page bro
not quite
because the War with Iraqi was in our own intrest
An action to topple Robert Mugabe would be in the intrest for the Zimbabwean people.
in fact it is very important to note that Robert Mugabe is almost on a par with Saddam in killing is own people, if not over taken him (seeing that saddam is gone).
the only diffrence is the only difference is that Mugabe used gangs of thugs to kill torture and rape the people of Zimbabwe.
anyway like i said IT\'s THE UK\'s problem , i woudent want or Ask the US to get involved its not your fight !.
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and they wont untill it serves their intrest. damn shame isnt it?
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green, you dont have a question
you dont even have a rational argument
luckee, im sorry you fail to see saddam as a threat to the world
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And that is all that can ever be said.
Out of all the message boards I frequent and the hundreds of Saddam convos..not once has anyone been able to explain how he is a threat to the world. Only to his citizens.
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bah
tell us he didnt harbor known terrorists
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Known terrorists with a chemical plant at that.
o chit..didnt mean to edit..wrong button.
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I honestly do not know if he did it knowingly. I know I have heard that before. Knowing what I know of him, he probably did know.
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Originally posted by videoholic
Known terrorists with a chemical plant at that.
o yea...do tell, what happend to that chemical plant again anyway?
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i notice he didnt question my statement
:)
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I love living in australia.. A country thats history isn\'t based on wars, it\'s based on peace.
Until now. Howard you knob.
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
I love living in australia.. A country thats history isn\'t based on wars, it\'s based on peace.
Until now. Howard you knob.
..don\'t forget prison colonies....;)
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yep.. same as usa. ;)
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Er, um... I recently saw the movie "Rabbit Proof Fence."
Maybe we shouldn\'t start getting all High-and-Mighty...
Every country has f**k ups in their past. Acknowledging it improves our credibility. Pretending that we\'re the model for the rest of the world, and our shit doesn\'t smell... well that\'s just hypocritical.
BTW, I\'m talking about the US, as well as everyone else.
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based on peace? what about all the aboriginies you guys pushed into the desert?
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we didn\'t push anyone, we sold them alcohol for land.. There\'s nothing wrong with that.
They\'re living under sheet metal now, I saw 2 the other day, asked one of them wtf he was doin with this sheet metal.. The dood turned around and said "mate, i\'m a real estate agent. i\'m trying to sell a place here"
Well, to be honest. They\'re not really in the desert. Most of them just live in pov areas.
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I read through all the bithe and zimbabwe stuff that came up on page 2, but lemme just step back a little.
Originally posted by Capcom
We need to leave N. Korea alone. They are china\'s next door neighbor, and China does not want democracy close to them. Things have changed since we fought Korea the first time. For one N.K. and China both have nukes now that can hit the u.s.
So far as Sadaam goes. So what if he brutalizes his people? This happens everyday, and it happens even in this country. Every goverment that I have seen thinks it is god.
It\'s human nature to pick on things that are weaker than yourself. Look at small children. They are by far some of the cruelest people on earth. School children taunt weaker children in a never ending cycle that scars for a lifetime.
It\'s all bs politics, and I no longer care one way or another.
Actually China just doesn\'t want US military bases on its doorstep. That\'s why they sent their expeditionary force during the North Korean Police Action. They prolly wouldn\'t mind a democratic and unified Korea, its more money for them - just don\'t have any US bases in the northern part.
North Korea doesn\'t have nukes yet either. Though it is widely accepted that they\'ve resumed an active program to get them.
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Originally posted by luckee
Im still waiting for someone to display how Saddam is a threat to the world.
He hasn\'t been, still isn\'t, and if left in power, probably still wouldnt be.
Thats basically why I knew Saddam had little to nothing of importance or our intelligence and satellites would have picked it up.
Either way...it isnt over yet and he may very have them after all.
^^^
Word.
But you know he does have WMD and whatever.......
The point is, IF he really was going to use them or sell them to terrorist. Why is Bush so sure that he hasn\'t already? How do we know that Bin Laden doesn\'t have one already?
You guys say that Saddam was your smoking gun. So the rest of the people that are now "free" can do whatever they want now. There is total chaos in Iraq. People killing each other, stealing, all sorts of mess left. But that doesn\'t matter because Saddam is now out of power and the threat is no more??
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Originally posted by luckee
So what about the other 112 countries with leaders worse or similar to saddam?
Now that the WMD lie is out of the way, the last exuse is Saddam is a bad guy. I am slowly trying to chip away at this excuse. I\'m trying to prove that if they were so upset with what Saddam was doing that there is way more simpler, cheaper, and less costlier ways to getting rid of him then taking over the entire country and forcing the Western way of life on them.
About the chaos in Iraq...It just shows the Bush administration\'s war plan was rushed and flawed. Most of the rioters are probably Kurds, trashing Iraqi bussinesses or Terroring apart presidential palaces. You hear about the happy rioters cheering the U.S. on, but you dlon\'t hear about the shop owner who had his entire store vandalized and looted
Green Meanie...as you can see even though Saddam doesnt have WMDs they still think he is a threat to the world...by harboring terrorists...so, since Iraq Harbors a terrorist camp, war is justified on the entire country. Well go get the rest of the Middle Eastern countries that harbor terrorists.
mm...don\'t make this a mm vs psx2central thread
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
we didn\'t push anyone, we sold them alcohol for land.. There\'s nothing wrong with that.
Now why don\'t we do that anymore? ;) Oh, and Australia fought in WWI and II :) An Australian machine gunner shot down the Red Baron. So they aren\'t all that bad :)
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clowd, do us a favor
go suck saddam\'s penis and get it over with
thank you
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mm..with all due respect since you basically run this show... I still moderate here and get on others for similar posts.
So if thats all you are going to respond with to some of the posters, pplease dont bother.
Then again, like I said, you still run the show. I just dont see the need for that.
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I have yet to have heard a single educated person anywhere explain why we shouldn\'t have taken Saddam out of power.
I saw an interview with an iraqi scientist yesterday. He was saying the biggest problem with the UN is that they didn\'t talk to any of the Iraqi scientists that defected. He also said they did an awful job interviewing the ones they did get to interview. He said that he personally worked in the nuclear labs and he know for a fact that Saddam has amassed quite a bit of WMD that we will find.
He did say however that quite a bit of the biological stuff is out dated and probably isn\'t any good anymore that being Anthrax.
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Originally posted by Clowd
mm...don\'t make this a mm vs psx2central thread
Don\'t you mean a clowd vs psx2central thread?
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aye, luckee
aye, giga
at least noone suggested that clowd should not go do it
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he\'s been warned to keep things clean and topic related.
Believe me, he is on thin ice :)
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You probably made him cry luckee.
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Originally posted by Clowd
Now that the WMD lie is out of the way
I stopped reading right there.
Out of the way? The search has just begun.
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Originally posted by mm
they got rid of saddam, thats enough for me
That was the purpose the whole time. The weapons of mass destruction was an attempt to get more allies. Which worked decently.
I think this war is totally justified- the Iraqi\'s are free of his reigne of terror, and we now have another powerful ally.
BTW: I havent heard of how Afghanistans Government is doing as of lately? Has it gotten off the ground?
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Originally posted by mm
green, you dont have a question
you dont even have a rational argument
luckee, im sorry you fail to see saddam as a threat to the world
what he meant to say
;)
"luckee, im sorry you fail to see saddam as a threat to Israel "
j/k
:p
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There are a lot of interesting stories about the scientist that gave up. This guy apparently will eventually spill the beans. He is just trying to play his cards so he gets the sweetest deal. This guy could have easily been someone on the insde that our CIA has been emailing and talking to all along. I mean look at how he was brought in. The dude knows he has the info to be big pimpin for the rest of his life. He\'s just got to play his cards. The 7 of diamonds to be exact.
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Originally posted by mm
bah
tell us he didnt harbor known terrorists
Christ
:eek:
sorry to pee on your BBQ but what country hasn\'t either harbored or supported terrorists ?
and before someone says the US.. i am sorry to burst that bubble what will all them years funding the IRA.
gee thanks guys ;)
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good point..I forgot all about our involvement with them.
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I mentioned the IRA thing a while back, words can\'t express how angry I am at the US attitude. They seem to really hate terrorism but have funded one of the most vicious and random terrorist campaigns of the last century an thir own allies. They either never really mention it or forget entirely.
Yeah thanks America, we\'re just solving that one now hopefully.
Not to mention all the bomb making expertise passed to the Middle East, you\'re your own worst enemy and then moan and whine when you have to tidy up your own shit and mess.
I don\'t hate America to my very marrow at the moment, I\'m just miffed at the selective memory processes going on.