PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Lord Nicon on May 14, 2003, 10:39:14 PM
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Ok its about 1:00 am central time May 15 2003. I just got home from the 10:00 show of reloaded and all i have to say is that i strongly reccomend that you see it. I waited for 2 hours in line to see the movie and i would have waited and extra hour for it;). Knowing that by now, none of you have seen it, i will hold my peace till later discussion. Out of pure content have i written this and im sorry if i have wasted space and time. SPOILERS!!! [sp]OMFG! this is about one of the greatest movies ever!!!. When you see the movie answer me this, what did you think of the ending? It was utter shit and then after about 3 seconds I thought it was greatest thing since the invention of sex, heh. If it were any other movie it would have sucked, period. This opens up so much theory and discussion its not even funny.[/SP]Well until any of you have seen the movie i bid thee adieu (or however you say it).:) thank you.
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i\'ve heard alot of people say that the movie was "too slow" is this true?
anyways too bad this movie doesnt have an international release date like x men 2.
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greatest movie ever?
not a chance in hell
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mm, not everyone’s opinions are facts nor are they applied as such. I\'ll be seeing it tomorrow night hopefully. :)
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
. If it were any other movie it would have sucked, period. This opens up so much theory and discussion its not even funny.
Not seen it... might rent it as i found the 1st one boreing as hell.
Anyway on to the Spoiler....
[sp]
let me guess.... they are really in a matrix within a Matrix.
in other words when they are in the "real world" on the Nebucadezzar or Zion...... they are still in fact within the matrix.
[/sp]
or
Neo is gay.... j/k
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oh yeah and Greatest film ever ?
but the films are just Special effects... with some boring subplot "acting" in the away...if i wanted endless CGI and no fun i would of booted Xenosaga.
;) ;)
Note spoiler tags added due to the fact that i hit the nail on the head with my first Joke... Altough thats not to say a Gay love story for Neo for the 3rd film is rulled out yet ;).
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SPOILERS Wow that matrix whithin a matrix thing has been going on a lot. And ok definately not the greatest movie but c\'mon. I had just gotten home from the theatre and i was so stoked i wanted to see it again. Personally I think that its almost cult worthy (not quite but sorta). I had to see the flick in yuppieville. UHG, there were people dressed like trinity and agent smith! Sad. To some it may be really slow. I thought so at times but then it was better later in the film. Basically everything was forgiveable. I thought at first that they were going to butcher the movie. At time it seems that its just fight fight fight fight, but i cant really tell you if you will like it or not. Its a perfect set up for revelations. Ill get back to this in a bit, gotta go on my morning routine. ;)
I heard rupert and ebert gave it like 2 stars???
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Originally posted by ooseven
Bloody hell
i am now 100% convinced that the Matrix is just a poor rip off for Better than Life from Red dawrf....
You are my hero. Red Dwarf f*ckin rox...
SMEG!!!!
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:eek:
ok i have just spent the last hour or so readign all the spoilers i could get (well the ones on Penny_arcade forum :o)
and it looks like I was right.....
0h.. and [sp]The "Real world" esp Zion are fake and part of the matrix[/sp]
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
SPOILERS Wow that matrix whithin a matrix thing has been going on a lot. And ok definately not the greatest movie but c\'mon. I had just gotten home from the theatre and i was so stoked i wanted to see it again. Personally I think that its almost cult worthy (not quite but sorta). I had to see the flick in yuppieville. UHG, there were people dressed like trinity and agent smith! Sad. To some it may be really slow. I thought so at times but then it was better later in the film. Basically everything was forgiveable. I thought at first that they were going to butcher the movie. At time it seems that its just fight fight fight fight, but i cant really tell you if you will like it or not. Its a perfect set up for revelations. Ill get back to this in a bit, gotta go on my morning routine. ;)
I heard rupert and ebert gave it like 2 stars???
i wouldn\'t say the Series is a Steaming pile of Dog doo... but i wouldn\'t say its the best thing since sliced bread.
yes i would quite like to see Reloaded but its not the be all and end all for the "movie" experience.
Also the fact that [sp]the matirx has fooled everyone thining they have escaped from the programme, is a pure rip of of Red dwarf\'s better than life.... if you readthe book you will know what i mean[/sp]
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I have yet to hear a good review from anyone regarding the plot. Special effects, um yeah. Top notch. Plot. Where?
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"Better than Life" was awesome!
I haven\'t seen Reloaded yet, but I will. I need to select a theater and show time that will have fewer viewers, so my experience won\'t be ruined by asses. :)
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Damn, I was actually going to go and see this, yes, my warez whore ass was going to pay for it, the ads have been running all day saying it\'s out today but then I find out not to the public, I was well pissed, I\'m still going on the 23rd or 21st whenever it is but I\'ll be still watching it tonight, ahem *cough* This will be the first film I\'ve paid for in a long ass time..
PS: I didn\'t read any of the spoilers :D
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[sp]Before you go and attack the Matrix, remember that we don\'t know that there is a Matrix within a Matrix thing going on here. All we know is that Neo was able to somehow sense the machines coming and stop them in the real world. This could mean any number of things that don\'t involve a Matrix within a Matrix plotline.
As for the ending, I loved the whole thing where Neo was actually the 6th "the one", but the first one to make the choice he made. Not bad at all if you ask me.[/sp]
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Originally posted by shockwaves
[sp]Before you go and attack the Matrix, remember that we don\'t know that there is a Matrix within a Matrix thing going on here. All we know is that Neo was able to somehow sense the machines coming and stop them in the real world. This could mean any number of things that don\'t involve a Matrix within a Matrix plotline.
As for the ending, I loved the whole thing where Neo was actually the 6th "the one", but the first one to make the choice he made. Not bad at all if you ask me.[/sp]
[sp]Yeah ive been wondering about the whole matrix within a matrix thing all day and it is true that we dont know. Sure neo was able to sense the machines outside of the matrix but we also dont know why he collapsed. If it were a matrix inside another then maybe he collapsed due to tougher restraints in the ultimate matrix. If there isnt then i guess we will see what the wachowski brothers come up with later in the year. I have also spoken with some friends of mine and by what the architect (in the movie) said, neo could very well be a program himself possibly created by the oracle to sum up her whole implementation of CHOICE. When i left the theare i fully understood what the architect was saying but now its a little hazy. When the oracle helped to rebiuld the matrix and implemented choice, they said that 99.9 or 99 percent would fully accept the matrix leaving 1 percent: thus the one. Now i dont remember if the 1 percent being there was a flaw, or if neo and all the other "ones" were just necissary for the rest of the 99 percent to accept the matrix. [/sp]
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I have the script of Matrix:Reloaded, anyone interested?.
and here is a link to Matrix: Revolution... Very cool.
http://www.joblo.com/index.php?id=1675
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Niiiice. Thanx a million zeric. It will definately come in handy. I cant wait for revolution/revelations i forgot. But for anybody that goes, stay till the end of the credits for the revolutions trailer. All i have to say is DAMN; and well worth the very small wait and just enough to get you pissed cause you know that reloaded isnt the last one. thats what i call a teaser.
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Dont know- I didnt watch the first one until it came out on video.
Probably do the same- maybe I\'ll wait until the nerds die out here.
But definetly not the greatest movie ever. Jenna Loves Briana tops any move, ever.
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Originally posted by Spudz
Dont know- I didnt watch the first one until it came out on video.
Probably do the same- maybe I\'ll wait until the nerds die out here.
But definetly not the greatest movie ever. Jenna Loves Briana tops any move, ever.
Would we be reffering to Jenna Jameson and Briana Banks or is that just my perverted mind at work?
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What do you think?
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
[sp]Yeah ive been wondering about the whole matrix within a matrix thing all day and it is true that we dont know. Sure neo was able to sense the machines outside of the matrix but we also dont know why he collapsed. If it were a matrix inside another then maybe he collapsed due to tougher restraints in the ultimate matrix. If there isnt then i guess we will see what the wachowski brothers come up with later in the year. I have also spoken with some friends of mine and by what the architect (in the movie) said, neo could very well be a program himself possibly created by the oracle to sum up her whole implementation of CHOICE. When i left the theare i fully understood what the architect was saying but now its a little hazy. When the oracle helped to rebiuld the matrix and implemented choice, they said that 99.9 or 99 percent would fully accept the matrix leaving 1 percent: thus the one. Now i dont remember if the 1 percent being there was a flaw, or if neo and all the other "ones" were just necissary for the rest of the 99 percent to accept the matrix. [/sp]
[sp]I really don\'t think the remaining 0.1% referred to the one. I think it referred collectively to all the minds that had been freed. Otherwise it would have had to have been a smalled percentage.[/sp]
Oh, and for spoilers, surround them with [*sp] tags (without the *)
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Oh, and my theory on the end:
[sp]I think that when he and Agent Smith killed eachother, but both came back, they sort of put some of eachother in the other one. I think that Neo has some elements of Agent Smith in him, thus all the references to him being machine like in the movie. I think this somehow connects him to the other machines, and that has something to do with how he was able to stop the other machines.[/sp]
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Well, I watched it, and I thought it was really good.
[sp]But I thought the ending sucked a bit, left me wanting too much more, I was scratching my head a bit though, few things that left me thinking, like Neo stopping the machines in the real world, very odd.
my fav bits in the film were the car chase and the fight scene where neo kicks like 200 Agent Smith\'s asses.
I also just watched the matrix 3 trailer, looked very good and I can\'t wait.[/sp]
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I have mixed feelings.
I thought the action sequences were absolutely amazing, unrivaled. However, they were just fluff.
The plot was extremely slow moving and left so much to be desired.
I honestly don\'t see why they needed to break this into two movies...whatever.
X2 holds title as the best action film this year, IMO. Charlie\'s Angels and T3 are coming up though:)
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I\'m going to go see Reloaded saturday. I can\'t wait. I have not read the spoilers I want to be shocked by everything I see.
And Ginko X2 was not that action packed. What movie were you watching? X2 was more story than action. But I guess thats your opinion even though it was not all that action packed.
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I took off that stupid "No Spoilers" portion of the thread title. If the thread is for those who HAVE seen it, then those who have not have no place being here if they are looking for impressions not containing spoilers. Just pointless.
One quick comment: ooseven, please watch the film when it comes out in your region so you can discuss it with us with your own opinions of the happenings in the film. It\'s not interesting reading the regurgitated accumulative opinions of others translated with your interpretation. I\'d much rather have your own personal beliefs on the subject after experiencing it. If I want P-A\'s opinion, I\'ll browse their boards.
As for the film, I have mixed feelings about it. I loved the introduced philosophy presented by the architect at the end and how the Oracle hits you with the fact that the Matrix is nothing more then a series of sentient programs no matter what happens to them when faced with nullification or with their daily "Task" as in maintaining the sun and the gravity, etc etc. within the Matrix system. Although the system itself is referred to repeatedly as a control mechanism, I have trouble imagining it as such when it fails in its design on purpose or so the architect would make you believe.
I definitely appreciate the explanation at the end of the film though with the televisions displaying the previous opinions of the other "one\'s" before Neo. Quite hilarious hearing that dialogue overlapped, but a very believeable human response as the architect made note of. Here\'s a question to pine over which I\'m sure a lot of you don\'t really have a quick answer for:
If the Matrix is control and the coming of the One was something prophesized by the Oracle happening on purpose to cater to the needs of those unwilling to be plugged into the Matrix, then why give Neo the choice to destroy the Matrix and all those plugged into it in the first place?
I ask this question because, not only did the Oracle prophesize the arrival of the one, as she did six times before, but she also told Trinity that she and the One would fall in love. Making note of that, it opened the door to the choice at the end of the film that Neo hastily made. If the Oracle had designed the system to restart every hundred years, then why not just give him the one choice to restart the system? I realize the machines are ready to cope with the loss of such an abundant energy source, but why risk it? Confusing. Unless of course, the new realized power Neo has in the "real" is actually a manifesting power in another Matrix. Trippy sh*t either way.
I am tending to believe that the "Real" is just another Matrix-like simulation however. How can you tell if it\'s not? "How do you define real? If you are talking about what you can smell or touch or see or taste, then real is simply electrical impulses interpreted by your brain." That\'s one reason why I believe the second Matrix theory, but the other, a much more glaring fact, is when Neo recieved a spoon from the orphan boy from the first film. Why did he have that delivered? Just a symbolic gesture that his mind is now free? Doubtful. If the Matrix films have taught us anything, there are very deep meanings even to the most common elements. I think the spoon is a reference to the first film saying simply "There is still no spoon" further confirming the ideas of this paragraph.
Well, whatever the case, I hope some of you thought about the film and it\'s concepts as deeply as I have and have come up with some conclusions refuting or agreeing with my opinions above.
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Originally posted by Ryu
One quick comment: ooseven, please watch the film when it comes out in your region so you can discuss it with us with your own opinions of the happenings in the film. It\'s not interesting reading the regurgitated accumulative opinions of others translated with your interpretation. I\'d much rather have your own personal beliefs on the subject after experiencing it. If I want P-A\'s opinion, I\'ll browse their boards.
Sorry Ryu buddy.. but I’ll wait till it goes rental.. but I will at least give it a fair chance when it does ... the first film disappointed me and as for the whole concept of the matrix is a direct rip off of Red Dwarfs Better than Life.Plus I find the concept all flash no substance.
Anyway my Agro was aimed at the comment that this is the Greatest film of all time... which kind of got my back up .. hance the venom aimed at the film.
on the P-A refrence..... i just checked them to see if i was right with my Guess about the ending of the film (i also checked the Zion switchboard (U-Go Matrix forum) for references to reloaded and Animatrix.)
beleve it or not i didn\'t even know i managed to hit the nail on the head and i didn\'t use spoiler tags with my joke in my first post.... thank God for you people out there that i went and checked that my passing joke was so close to the mark it could of spoiled the whole experience for everyone here who hasent seen it.
Anyhoo i went back and [sp]ed the lines which could spoil.
Go me :D
P.S.
To all Matrix fans... sorry for the Bashing...... :(
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I love how Matrix Reloaded provokes some thoughts about philosophical questions regarding : Choices, the great deceiver (or higher power) and Life (or self in regards to Agent Smith uploading itself to a human brain).
[sp]
The Oracle, French guy and the Key Maker, basically are programs that chose to live on. Neo is given a series of questions by the Architect (I love how they made him seated and small - like the like Wizard of Oz), which, I think if you noticed the monitors in the background, the 5 other "previous" Neo\'s had their own choice of answers. The current Neo, calm and collected, made a more well behaved decision (he\'s a better version, I suppose). Destroy the Matrix and kill all the plugged in humans (seems like the Matrix has backup power) or save Trinity and destroy Zion? Decisions decisions! It\'s all about choices, eh? Or is it?
Remember when the French guy told Neo, Trinity and Morpheus that they are still "following" orders? From what? The Matrix, the great deceiver?
Let\'s just say that there is no "layered" Matrix for this next one : Self. In the first movie, Cypher wanted to go back to the Matrix and he wanted no memory of the "real" world, therefore, the brain can be re-written. Which may explain why Agent Smith was able to upload himself (or itself) to a human brain. So, the next philosophical question is : What is "Life" and the "Self" of a person?
[/sp]
Was one of the writers a phylosophy major? Gawd dang....an action flick with Kung Fu and Phylosophy (or Taoism or Daoism)!
Neat. =8^)
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Bloody hell Gman that was one well writen post...
sorry buddy but i [Sp] it just incase i ruined the film for anyone, as it dose hit at some of the secrets.
but still 10 out of 10 for your phylosophy 101
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Thanks!
I thought the subject heading would ward off the unplugged viewers. :) Anyway, better safe than sorry.
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Sorry Ryu buddy.. but I’ll wait till it goes rental.. but I will at least give it a fair chance when it does ... the first film disappointed me and as for the whole concept of the matrix is a direct rip off of Red Dwarfs Better than Life.Plus I find the concept all flash no substance.
I don\'t care if you have gripes with the film. You\'re definitely NOT the only one and you definitely won\'t be the last and that\'s for sure. But you have gripes with it without even seeing it and that I can\'t see the logic in, which is why I made my comments. Yes, you read the spoilers, but that doesn\'t make your opinion completely valid. Maybe the way it\'s presented will make you love it, or maybe it won\'t -- the point is, take it for a test drive before spewing your opinion. That\'s all I ask.
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Originally posted by Ryu
I don\'t care if you have gripes with the film. You\'re definitely NOT the only one and you definitely won\'t be the last and that\'s for sure. But you have gripes with it without even seeing it and that I can\'t see the logic in, which is why I made my comments. Yes, you read the spoilers, but that doesn\'t make your opinion completely valid. Maybe the way it\'s presented will make you love it, or maybe it won\'t -- the point is, take it for a test drive before spewing your opinion. That\'s all I ask.
ok :D
but I’ll wait for a couple of weeks after launch or so to go and see it when the theatre is nice and quiet, that’s the best way to enjoy a movie.
p.s.
Did anyone who watched it stay for the trailer at the end ?
if not The Revelation trailer is now online and from the looks of things due for launch in Fall.
137 or so days to go
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Monica Belucci needs my philosophical probing.
Starred in Brotherhood of the Wolf and Matrix:Reloaded
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsexystar.free.fr%2Fphoto%2Fbellucci%2Fmonica2.jpg&hash=78dbd26d12268ff2d917e524eda6b6a8d3d497f7)
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was she the Italian house of ill rapute "worker" ;) ;) in Brotherhood of the Wolf. ?
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Yes indeed. She gave it up like the whore she played. I would have married her. :p
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Yes indeed. She gave it up like the whore she played. I would have married her. :p
Sold !
oh so thats were i saw her before, i knew she looked like someone i reconised when i watched the trailer fir the first time.
/me rushes out to book a ticket :D.
oh by the way see the two twins (Adrian Rayment & Neil Rayment ), well they used to be on a British DIY show called British better homes or something and was about building a futureistic & environmentaly sound home.
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I saw the Matrix and thought it rocked. Im a huge matrix fan a an even bigger computer geek so when I watched the movie tons of things made sense to me so heres my take: [sp] In the Matrix he can change rules...he is part of a program or at least a interactive piece of a huge program. When he stopped those Sentinals when he left the "Matrix" he said he could feel them...... SO check this out... A program is bunch of small scripts or services working together or against each other...queries, rules engines, logic, etc. It is logical to think that Neo would be able to "feel" the Agents arrive at that meeting in the beginning of the movie like he did.
However that was a different feeling or at least a different reaction and emotion on his face for that then when they left the "matrix" and were chased by the Sentinals. He was actally surprised he could feel them and said something is different. SOOOO IMO.....I think that they are not in another Matrix but actually part of a network now. They are each nodes.. Like on a network, each node sends out Pings or broadcasts letting each other know where they are and who they are. Programs don\'t let nodes know this stuff, programs just let other parts of the program know whats what.
So, Matrix .... huge program.
Out of the Matrix, still virtual but each person is actually a node with a Address that broadcasts[/sp]
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The DVD box...
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.195.telia.com%2F%7Eu19507261%2FDVD-MatrixReloaded-BF.jpg&hash=36299a7aea3bee66d0a5fcb580df0a02a9f9733d)
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Kittens will die.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monicabellucci.it%2Fgallery%2Fimages%2FDA6.jpg&hash=4ab11bbeccf9822d0b2a7bb038a7b031465dec5b)
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I took off that stupid "No Spoilers" portion of the thread title. If the thread is for those who HAVE seen it, then those who have not have no place being here if they are looking for impressions not containing spoilers. Just pointless.
Sorry ryu. My intentions were to not keep people away from it because i wanted to make the impression that spoilers werent just blurted out insted of concealed. Sorry about that.
Warning Spoiler Ahead! [Sp] It\'s confusing the way the oracle works actually. She is a program, and lets forget about WHY she "helps" neo, and ask HOW instead? Sure there is always something with probability but how can a progam create such accuracy and/or power? And another thing. Something that i was curious about is if the machines have formed a new conciousness of there own and when they took "control" of the humans wouldnt they be far more complex and thus able to keep them in their place? From this it is reasonable to expect a matrix within a matrix.
So say there is a matrix within a matrix. Morpheus in the first matrix said that he had seen the fields of people being consumed with his own eyes. So what you people are saying is that when morpheus and them free minds then they are actually just people in a matrix saving people in a matrix inside of a matrix? Seems odd but concevable.
When looking at the revelutions trailer it seems that agent smith still plays a very large role. Him, the oracle, the architect are all AI puppets, programs within a program blinded by the main program that blinds them? The architect said he made the matrix. Am i to assume that he is a sub program with a pretty fair amount of AI where he can react in different manners to a cycle of "the ones" but does not know that he is not the creator of the matrix? OR Is the architect AI created by a program where he doesnt know it so he belives that he created the matrix, when in reality he created the second?
And if the matrix allows free will within the matrix by the hosts, then if an apocalypse occured within the matrix then the machines would be left with dead bodies? How do they explain time? The matrix is suposedly supposed to create the perfect world to contain the humans but are the humans reacting to a world that never existed and the machines made it up out of thin air or is it a simulation of what was the real world? If so, what happens to the people in the matrix when the battle between the machines starts? Could this be the reason behind the matrix within the matrix? That each time life in the matrix goes through a full cycle that another matrix builds within its self? Like the replication of cells. The same thing keeps on happening but the cells dont die. Ok OK try to stay with me on this: The architech did build the matrix and since he did he is a universal program throughout each matrix (ie the network theory proposed by cyrus) and that a new matrix is created in a matrix within a matrix once history in the old matrix has completed. This is all based on the possibility that the matrix is the machine\'s attempt to create our world as it once was.
Man what a doozie. I hope that some of you got to the end of that cause i know its long and confusing but i want to hear your response. [/Sp]
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heh I just thought of something else..... The Matrix Reloaded came out on the day of a lunar eclipse The Matrix Revolutions also comes out on a lunar eclipse and then theer is not another eclipes of this type for 40 years....
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I went to see it last night, but the rest of the night\'s shows were over. They have it showing every 30 minutes.....But I still couldn\'t get my hands on a ticket. :eek:
So instead I saw Xmen 2. Nightcrawler and Mystique rock! :nerd:
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Originally posted by SER
I went to see it last night, but the rest of the night\'s shows were over. They have it showing every 30 minutes.....But I still couldn\'t get my hands on a ticket. :eek:
So instead I saw Xmen 2. Nightcrawler and Mystique rock! :nerd:
Really? It was pretty damn easy here in Queens. All I did was the usual stuff.
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I saw it on Thursday and I have to agree with Nicon and others that the plot does have you asking a lot of questions at the end. Lawrence Fishburn even said in an interview last week there will be those who just don\'t get it (basically those who don\'t like the movie) and those that understand where they are going with it. Not to say that even if you understand it you will necessarily like it, but I like a movie that makes you think and this one fulfilled that for me.
Not the best movie, but well worth the price of admission.
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What I don\'t understand is what really goes on in the second. I understood that the French guy can modify the Matrix and add little things, I understand that the Oracle is a program and I understand Zion is under attack and I get that the programmer of the Matrix gives Neo a choice. But what does all that mean? They jump from one point to another. Maybe I need to see it again to understand it. But what was that thing about the choice of destroying Zion or the Matrix? Did Neo decide to save everyone still plugged into the Matrix in hopes of unplugging them and rebuilding Zion and destroying the machines? Is that what the other 5 "Ones" did?
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Titan, use spoiler tags.
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Originally posted by Titan
[sp]What I don\'t understand is what really goes on in the second. I understood that the French guy can modify the Matrix and add little things, I understand that the Oracle is a program and I understand Zion is under attack and I get that the programmer of the Matrix gives Neo a choice. But what does all that mean? They jump from one point to another. Maybe I need to see it again to understand it. But what was that thing about the choice of destroying Zion or the Matrix? Did Neo decide to save everyone still plugged into the Matrix in hopes of unplugging them and rebuilding Zion and destroying the machines? Is that what the other 5 "Ones" did? [/sp]
[sp]I dont know what the others did but the architect said that his case was more complicated because he was in love with trinity. So shouldnt there only have been one choice for the others? And plus, the architect said that the other door led to the salvation of zion. Now if this is true and the previous "ones" didnt have lovers wouldnt zion be free by now? And what if neo went back to zion? If the people of zion knew that neo had no powers inside the "real" world then what would be the point of him going??? Maybe the architect knew that he had power outside and thus gave him the "salvation" choice? meh, I think you need to watch the movie again. I saw it for the second time yesterday. Something else that i noticed was that all that talk about neo and agent smith having part of eachother in them and stuff, in the revolutions trailer you see smith flying at neo and maybe that explains why neo has some power over the machines. If that isnt the reason, smith also said that maybe something got copied on to eachother so that would mean that neo is either in 2 matricies or that neo is a program capable of interdimentional travel between the matricies. Otherwise how could you explain the graphting of info into smith? And what happened to niobe and friends on board the logos? [/sp]
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I saw this movie Yesterday.
The Matrix was my Favorite movie.
Reloaded just makes me like it more.
Two of the people I went with didn\'t like it because the story got "stupid". I think the problem was that they just didn\'t understand.
BEST MOVIE THIS YEAR!!......AT LEAST UNTIL REVOLOTIONS.
Even though I got most of the movie, I was reading through your post and one of you said that the Neo\'s on the TVs were the other "ones"....What do you mean?! I tought they were just showing Neo\'s secret reactions or all the ways he could of reacted....
This was the first movie that I went with my girlfriend with, and didn\'t make out for more than five seconds. But she said she was expecting that.
I don\'t know how to use spoilers, I don\'t think it matters because probably most of you have seen it anyways....
I don\'t think there is another matrix. I agree on the whole Neo being somehow connected with the machines when he "killed" agent Smith...
The story got so much deeper...I love movies that mess with my head....
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[sp]Well see if you were listening to the architect and everyone else, they kept on saying that they lived through his predessesors and the architect said that there have been 5 other people before neo with the gift of manipulating the matrix. The same thing that has been going on in the movie has happened 5 times before and neo is the 6th one. Thats why morpheus in the matrix said that the one was said to come back and free the people of zion because there was previous neo-types. [/sp]
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Yeah, I get that. Neo is the 6th "the one" . There have been others before him and such. What I meant to ask was that how do you know the Neo\'s on TV were the other 5 "ones"?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Yeah, I get that. Neo is the 6th "the one" . There have been others before him and such. What I meant to ask was that how do you know the Neo\'s on TV were the other 5 "ones"?
That i dont think any of us are sure of. I really dont think they were the others because some of the responses seemed so unreal and just funny. So i think that the screens might have portrayed neo\'s thoughts maybe. Again im not sure.
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The Architect - Hello, Neo.
Neo - Who are you?
The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I’ve been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.
Neo - Why am I here?
The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
Neo - You haven’t answered my question.
The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.
*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: “Others? What others? How many? Answer me!”*
The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.
*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: “Five versions? Three? I’ve been lied too. This is bull****.*
Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.
The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly’s systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.
*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: “You can‘t control me! **** you! I’m going to kill you! You can‘t make me do anything!*
Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.
*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room*
The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo - The Oracle.
The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
Neo - This is about Zion.
The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.
Neo - Bull****.
*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: “Bull****!”*
The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*
The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.
Neo - You won’t let it happen, you can’t. You need human beings to survive.
The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.
*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*
The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.
*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neos dream appear on the monitors*
Neo - Trinity.
The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.
Neo - No!
The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you’re going to do, don’t we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.
*Neo walks to the door on his left*
The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.
Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don’t meet again.
The Architect - We won’t.
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Thanks Gman. I understand that part a bit better now.
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Yeah thanx for cutting this one out. I have the script but i havent taken the key parts out. thnx. Important part. Y not put this in the matrix thread instead of a new one?
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Woah. I just saw the part about the responses of the other ones. I dont know how i missed that the second time i saw it.
The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors
Or wait is that just a note? Cause i was discussing in the official thread that i dont think we can really tell. There are only 4 responses from the others. Seems kinda iffy to me.
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
Yeah thanx for cutting this one out. I have the script but i havent taken the key parts out. thnx. Important part. Y not put this in the matrix thread instead of a new one?
Coz this is not speculation like in that thread. This is like a reference thread since it\'s not buried. I doubt it will get much replies as the original.
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Just saw it. [sp] Personally I don\'t think the "real world" is a matrix itself. I think that when agent smith tried to take over neo, he also copied part of himself to neo by accident. If smith can take over a human brain and be in the "real world" why can\'t part of neo have part of smith in the "real world" etc. That\'s why he could stop the machines... If they’re in a matrix in the “real world”. When they finally do escape it. They will be back where they started. So part 3 would be pretty long movie ehh. Unless it\'s some kinda sick human experiments on humans.. ;) [/sp]
Just some thoughts..
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Any link to the whole script?
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
Just saw it. [sp] Personally I don\'t think the "real world" is a matrix itself. I think that when agent smith tried to take over neo, he also copied part of himself to neo by accident. If smith can take over a human brain and be in the "real world" why can\'t part of neo have part of smith in the "real world" etc. That\'s why he could stop the machines... If they’re in a matrix in the “real world”. When they finally do escape it. They will be back where they started. So part 3 would be pretty long movie ehh. Unless it\'s some kinda sick human experiments on humans.. ;) [/sp]
Just some thoughts..
[sp]Yeah this is what i was saying earlier. I really dont think there are two matricies but if the whole agent smith and neo thing is true then i still dont know how neo could control the machines. I mean before some of neo was copied on to agent smith he was a just a program and in the real world agent smith couldnt take on any type of form. it was only when part of neo was graphted on to him could he take control of a human body and move from the real world to the matrix. And why was he cutting himself? I didnt get that part.[/sp]
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First, take note everyone: The word is spelled REVOLUTIONS. Thank you. :)
Second, [sp]I just saw the film for the first time. There are many things to consider, and there simply isn\'t enough indisputable evidence to arrive at a conclusion no most of these questions. I will place a vote on one issue though. I think that the world the characters refer to as "The Real" is indeed another Matrix. I\'ve been thinking this since 1999 when I saw the first film. As you recall, when Neo is retrieved from the Matrix and wakes up in the ship for the first time in his \'real\' body, he says something like "Am I dead?" He recovers, and continues a life split between the real world and the Matrix with little difficulty. I always thought, wouldn\'t there be some difference in sensation between the real world and the simulation that should be remarked upon? Wouldn\'t the real world feel a little MORE real, or maybe less real than the Matrix? They should not be indistinguishable after you\'ve experienced both. Yet they don\'t remark upon it. Either it\'s just an overlooked element of that script, or maybe Neo is still in the Matrix when he\'s in both worlds.[/sp]
Third, [sp]I was a little disappointed with the density of the dialogue in Reloaded. It almost borders on what I call "X-Files Dialogue." That is, characters seem to have no hesitation in talking, and they seem to think that what they\'re saying is very revealing and of great importance, but when the viewer considers it carefully, it really doesn\'t reveal anything. It\'s like burying the signal in an avalanche of false signal. Intentional disinformation, or the whole "baffle them with bullshit" technique. In truth, this script is not as bad as a typical X-Files episode in that regard, but it comes close. It\'s almost as if the Wachowskis expect and demand that their audience see the film at least 2-3 times to weed out the false information and fully assimilate the dialogue. I won\'t complain too loudly because I probably will see it more than 2-3 times. Casual viewers might be frustrated by it though.[/sp]
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Originally posted by Coredweller
First, take note everyone: The word is spelled REVOLUTIONS. Thank you. :)
Second, [sp]I just saw the film for the first time. There are many things to consider, and there simply isn\'t enough indisputable evidence to arrive at a conclusion no most of these questions. I will place a vote on one issue though. I think that the world the characters refer to as "The Real" is indeed another Matrix. I\'ve been thinking this since 1999 when I saw the first film. As you recall, when Neo is retrieved from the Matrix and wakes up in the ship for the first time in his \'real\' body, he says something like "Am I dead?" He recovers, and continues a life split between the real world and the Matrix with little difficulty. I always thought, wouldn\'t there be some difference in sensation between the real world and the simulation that should be remarked upon? Wouldn\'t the real world feel a little MORE real, or maybe less real than the Matrix? They should not be indistinguishable after you\'ve experienced both. Yet they don\'t remark upon it. Either it\'s just an overlooked element of that script, or maybe Neo is still in the Matrix when he\'s in both worlds.[/sp]
Third, [sp]I was a little disappointed with the density of the dialogue in Reloaded. It almost borders on what I call "X-Files Dialogue." That is, characters seem to have no hesitation in talking, and they seem to think that what they\'re saying is very revealing and of great importance, but when the viewer considers it carefully, it really doesn\'t reveal anything. It\'s like burying the signal in an avalanche of false signal. Intentional disinformation, or the whole "baffle them with bullshit" technique. In truth, this script is not as bad as a typical X-Files episode in that regard, but it comes close. It\'s almost as if the Wachowskis expect and demand that their audience see the film at least 2-3 times to weed out the false information and fully assimilate the dialogue. I won\'t complain too loudly because I probably will see it more than 2-3 times. Casual viewers might be frustrated by it though.[/sp]
[sp]Thank you for your spelling lesson.;) As for your first "spoiler" about the distiguishable worlds, I think it shouldnt feel much different because the matrix was supposed to simulate real life. Gravity etc. All was taken into acount. They said that they studied human life to create it. When transfering into the "real" world, it would most definately feel the same. The only difference was that neo never used his eyes. One thing that does seem fishy is that their muscles didnt decompose. Other than that, zion etc. the way people went about things and interacted was all a result of the matrix because thats where everyone was educated and thus think the way they did in the matrix.
And to your other spoiler I personally like the way the xfiles dialogue goes. It seems like you dont like this type of dialogue the way i hate to hear full 3d graphics on video game boxes because its not revealing in the slightest bit. Correct me if im wrong. Actually i dont think the script was made to waste time by throwing peices in there. The film was long enough. I think the purpose was parcially to clue in the audience that may not have gotten the point earlier in the movie. Who knows. Any way i have seen it twice and i have the script so oh well but if i missed what you were saying please explain in lamens terms (if that is in fact how you spell it).[/sp]
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Wow we\'re nerds.
ANYWAYS...
Ok, well I have one more question that I\'ve been thinking too much about. I don\'t get the whole "the One" thing. Yeah "The one" can control anything in the matrix and change it as he wishes. The Architect said that there have been others. They all have failed to stop the Matrix and Zion was destroyed every single time...........How did that happen? The possibility of Zion being another part of the Matrix in order to keep the REAL world in check. I mean the whole "the one" idea was just another control of the Matrix in order to keep the ones that are conscious that there is a Matrix, but don\'t realize that "Zion" or the "Real" is in fact another Matrix, therefore even though they know what the machines are doing, they don\'t know that the "real" is just another way to keep the ones that know whats going on in check. Neo is there in order to make the whole "prophecy" more beliavable and help the "architect" keep the ones that know what the machines are doing. By making them believe that there is a saviour they accept the "real" as the "real" even though it\'s not......Then when Zion is destroyed the people in the REAL world die....remember....the body can\'t live without the mind.....So then once Zion is destroyed...the part of the Matrix that makes Zion is restarted......................Did that make sense?!
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
[sp] One thing that does seem fishy is that their muscles didnt decompose. [/sp]
Have u seen part 1?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
How did that happen? The possibility of Zion being another part of the Matrix in order to keep the REAL world in check. I mean the whole "the one" idea was just another control of the Matrix in order to keep the ones that are conscious that there is a Matrix, but don\'t realize that "Zion" or the "Real" is in fact another Matrix, therefore even though they know what the machines are doing, they don\'t know that the "real" is just another way to keep the ones that know whats going on in check. Neo is there in order to make the whole "prophecy" more beliavable and help the "architect" keep the ones that know what the machines are doing. By making them believe that there is a saviour they accept the "real" as the "real" even though it\'s not......Then when Zion is destroyed the people in the REAL world die....remember....the body can\'t live without the mind.....So then once Zion is destroyed...the part of the Matrix that makes Zion is restarted......................Did that make sense?!
I think you\'re on to something here. Yes, I think I\'m going to accept this explanation for the time being. Thanks.
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WOW NOW I GET IT!!!
SOO...Neo wasn\'t supposed to save trinity? Notice the architect said "hope" makes it sound like Neo is just hoping to save her, he also said that she was going to die and Neo couln\'t do nothing about it........OR he was just saying what Neo was feeling.
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Yes, just like the oracle, the architect told Neo what would happen as if it were unchangable. He said Trinity could not be saved, but Neo achieved the impossible and saved her anyway. Neo is the last and only assertion of freewill in a universe otherwise devoid of it.
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Not true. The architect said that she would die and there was nothing he could do to save her. Then, she died. Just like the Oracle told Neo he was waiting for his next life to be the One, and also told him that he would die if he tried to save Morpheus. He did die. Both the Oracle and the Architect told Neo exactly what would happen. Whether it was permanant or not is irrelevant. :)
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^^
DEEP SHIT!!
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SirMystiq has it down pretty good. From a long discussion with a friend of mine, we came to the following conclusions:
In mathematical programming, a continuous anomaly looping over and over again will, at one point, cause an entire program to come crashing down. If that\'s the case, then the program needs to be restarted and the anomaly needs to be weeded out either through careful scrutinzation of the problem, or trial and error. If you think of the Matrix, both the real form of the Matrix represented by Zion, and the form of the Matrix represented by 1999 life, as a series of mathematical equations equalling a program, Neo is the anomaly in that equation unsolved by the machines, the human anomaly of choice.
The machines are attempting to contain that anomaly and phase it out of their program as best as they can by giving the humans a choice at a very limited concious level. One of those humans will be an anomaly and be dubbed as the one, or the 0.1% that the Architect spoke of. Their ultimate goal with the one is to recombine them with the Source and restart the system since the mere existance of the one, and others who chose Zion like him, are further proof that their equations have yet to be perfected. Since this is a continuing struggle for the machines, the system needs to be continually restarted every hundred years until the equation is perfect and accepted by every single human and thus, there would be no need for Zion and control would be ultimately supreme.
With that said, new variables are introduced to the One in order to properly phase them out of their existance leading to the complete control of the Matrix with the machines and the variable of free will would be moot. Thus, the machines, or even the programs of the Matrix, introduced Trinity. As they said in the film, the One had never really been given a true element for them to really attach to. They were always sympathetic enough to humanity to cause them to save the vast majority -- the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one -- but that has yet to phase out the variable of the One. As said in the beginning of this long winded explanation, new elements are introduced to get rid of the One and because of that, the element of love was introduced, something the machines do not fully understand. Either way, the machines risk losing the power source of the humans either through a total system failure of the Matrix through the anomalyous program loop, however, the machines can continually try new concepts to try and perfect the Matrix program code. Either way, it\'s a risk, but it\'s a risk worth taking.
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Actually while I was watching the film, it also occured to me that perhaps Trinity died like Neo did. We won\'t know for sure until the next film. Perhaps if Trinity displays some of the "One" powers, then we\'ll know she died and was brought back to life. :)
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We won\'t know for sure until the next film. Perhaps if Trinity displays some of the "One" powers, then we\'ll know she died and was brought back to life.
Who said you have to become the one if you die? Maybe she\'s just lucky. :)
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wow, this, by far, makes the most sense to me!
nice post :D
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Nobody watched Tron did they :-) The one is a Programer and able to rewrite the Matrix as he sees fit because he can see the code. Zion is probably a secure system inside of the Matrix that the first "one created" The representation of the Machine coming towards Zion is the machines trying to hack the encryption. Neos choice From the Arcitech was to save zion by starting a new matrix or Destroy them all "meaning to fdisk the system delete everything and to start over" but than again it can be soo simple or so complectated who knows....... I do know that this thread is the most integent thread I have seen on this board in a year!
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where can I get the script will someone mail it to me?
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I don\'t agree with you, Cyrus. Zion itself can\'t be a free entity as the machines would have you believe. The machines always know about it, and each time, as said by the architect, it is summarily destroyed. If that\'s the case, then it leads me to believe that Zion itself is yet another portion of the Matrix which is why I posted that there were two distinct versions, almost like levels of reality. 1999 is the Matrix that we know of where humans who chose to be integrated with the Matrix are maintained and controlled while Zion itself is another Matrix designed to maintain and control the anomaly and those who chose it over the 1999 Matrix.
So far, this is the best explanation my friend and I can fathom. There\'s just nothing else out there that fits the criteria so perfectly which would explain Neo\'s newfound powers in Zion. The only problem is Agent Smith who I have not really had a need to discuss in this thread. :)
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Box office report. (For those of you who haven\'t seen it already)
"The Matrix: Reloaded"
3-Day gross (Fri, Sat, Sun) $93.3 Million [2nd all time behind "Spider-Man."]
Complete opening gross (Wed night through Sun) $135.8 Million. [#1 all time]
Highest grossing opening for a R-Rated film, beating "Hannibal"s $58 Million.
Grossed $37 Million on Thursday only, making it the highest grossing Thursday opening ever (beating "Attack of the Clones")
"Reloaded" should surpass the entire $171.4 million run of the first film "The Matrix" by next weekend.
IN ADDITION, the film added $31.9 Million from all overseas exhibitions. France=$12M, Australia=$7.3M, Netherlands=$1.8M, etc. Too many pirates in the Netherlands, I guess. :)
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it actually opened thurday
SO glad it didnt take fastest selling
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The funny thing is, the movie that has it, Spiderman, I didn\'t even see till a week ago.
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that\'s ok, it sucked anyways
i gave the early 80\'s live action TV show more respect
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Originally posted by mm
i gave the early 80\'s live action TV show more respect
I honestly can\'t believe that. You\'re joking, right? I mean let\'s get real. The 80s TV show featured Spider-Man fighting ordinary human criminals because they couldn\'t afford to produce a show with super villians. Almost everything about it was crap. The scripts were mind numbingly boring, and the effects were hopeless. I remember that show well, my friend. :)
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Ryu I dont agree with me either was just trowing it in there. Way tooo many possibilites. im still leaning toward my first post on the subject mostly because if we went with the one you posted and the artichect is really in control why wouldnt he at the point of system fauliure just stop everything and reload a backup
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Because no matter what, the problem would just happen all over again.
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core, yer basing it off how you would feel now watching it
as a kid, it\'s different
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Anyone else think that the Matrix created Neo so it could stop the "virus" Agent Smith from replicating itself to ALL the human batteries?
:D
Of course, in the guise of saving humans, Neo is really stopping Agent Smith. :p
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I saw the movie tonight and I thought it was downright terrible. Why?
- Fishburn\'s performance was sub-par. He was easily the best part of the first Matrix flick. In this one , every line he delivered seemed forced. Espically his speech at Zion.
- Zion looked and felt like crap. The CG was downright terrible in points.
- In the original Matrix - Morphues told Neo to run if he saw an Agent , that no one had ever defeated an Agent and guess what? That\'s what they did. They ran from Agent\'s, \'cept for Neo at the end. In this one, goin\' up against an Agent was an everyday thing and no big deal.
- Love story - forced and annoying. Reeves and Moss have no on screen chemisry what so ever.
- Agent Smith duplicating could of been cool, but instead it became a borin\' side plot.
- A lot of poor dialouge (the whole conversation with the man who held the Keymaster) . At points it seemed like the writers was tryin\' to get every big word , ever used in a sci-fi film and put them together in one big sentence. Downright poor.
- The scene in Zion where everyone is dancing and Neo is gettin\' laid. Come on - it was overly long and completely un-nessarcy.
- Speaking of overly long, the fight scenes, while was the only saving grace to the movie, was also overly long. You do not need a car chase scene to be 14 mintues long. It\'s just mind numbing.
Bright side? Reeves truly was \'The One\'. He was great in this flick and when he was flyin\' around, that was badass. However, all it did was make me wish for a new Superman movie.
Was lookin\' forward to this movie and came out disgusted.
Go freakin\' figure.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Anyone else think that the Matrix created Neo so it could stop the "virus" Agent Smith from replicating itself to ALL the human batteries?
:D
Of course, in the guise of saving humans, Neo is really stopping Agent Smith. :p
That wouldnt be possible because agent smith went AWOL after neo destroyed him. The matrix did not create neo for this purpose.
I don\'t agree with you, Cyrus. Zion itself can\'t be a free entity as the machines would have you believe. The machines always know about it, and each time, as said by the architect, it is summarily destroyed. If that\'s the case, then it leads me to believe that Zion itself is yet another portion of the Matrix which is why I posted that there were two distinct versions, almost like levels of reality. 1999 is the Matrix that we know of where humans who chose to be integrated with the Matrix are maintained and controlled while Zion itself is another Matrix designed to maintain and control the anomaly and those who chose it over the 1999 Matrix.
I do however agree with ryu on these points. The only thing i can think from this is that supposedly they want to close up most things in the next film and if so that doesnt leave a lot of room for too much explanation. Somehow im lead to belive that the one or the anomaly is a program to keep the rest of the human race in check becuse for some odd reason, the same things happen over again and Zion remains to be called Zion. Why is none of the past knowledge passed on, if all the other anomalies started to rebuild Zion? Seems a little strange when you think about it.
If programs can hide from the matrix and somehow detach themselves from the machine mainframe then its just as possible for neo to be a walking program that resets its self. The Oracle is on red alert because it seems people want her out of the picture. And its wierd because couldnt she just be eradicated from the mainframe, since physically she is nothing. I guess its just because the matrix is a program that she can hide there and thus the machines cant pull the plug on the matrix.
This Oracle biz makes you wonder. If she has seen each "one" and thinks that neo is special, If she has recently escaped the matrix\'s grasp or if she is working for the matrix to keep things in order. It really gets quite complicated as well all know.
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Somehow im lead to belive that the one or the anomaly is a program to keep the rest of the human race in check becuse for some odd reason, the same things happen over again and Zion remains to be called Zion.
Because Zion is another form of control. It\'s called Zion each time because the humans who continue to choose the reality of Zion over the reality of 1999 need a place to be shunted until the anomaly of the one can be solved in which case all humans would choose 1999 and there would be no need for Zion any longer. Once the one emerges from the Matrix, the machines do everything in their program to lead him to the source and restart the system so the machines can try to solve this anomaly once and for all. Each time, as I said, the machines have to change certain variables to come closer to attaining this goal. One such variable is Trinity and the rest I explained in my post above.
Once the Matrix restarts when the one merges with the source, any memories of Zion are purged since all those who do remember it are subseqently killed when the machines enter Zion and kill everyone there as they have five times before. If there is no one who remembers, then the information can\'t be passed on to anyone.
If programs can hide from the matrix and somehow detach themselves from the machine mainframe then its just as possible for neo to be a walking program that resets its self.
This I can see happening, but I\'m not sure I agree with it. For the most part, machines only decide whether they live or die when they face deletion. For example, all the rogue programs in the Matrix mentioned during the Oracle conversation as well as the Merovingian\'s guards (the Twins and others) are programs who chose against deletion to live inside the Matrix. That\'s the only example of free will I can think of. Neo has been making choices all this time, but I must admit, his continuance to follow orders and behave just as he is told mimics that of a machine more and more.
To contrast this, Smith himself is beginning to act more human despite the obvious presence inside a human body. It\'s interesting to be sure, but these two apparent foes could possible become allies seeking the same goal in the third movie.
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pffftttt Ryu.. why didn\'t you merge this with the offical Matrix + Animatrix thread... :rolleyes:
;)
j/l
:p
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The only relevant question in this movie is: Why didn\'t the robots use cows or any other animal to \'charge their batteries\', why humans? :eek:
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Originally posted by politiepet
The only relevant question in this movie is: Why didn\'t the robots use cows or any other animal to \'charge their batteries\', why humans? :eek:
Because if humans are left free, they will attack the Matrix and sabatage it.
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
That wouldnt be possible because agent smith went AWOL after neo destroyed him. The matrix did not create neo for this purpose.
To quote another person\'s theory :
Agent Smith cloning power is integral to the Matrix. Now being a virus, Agent Smith becomes the most dangerous portion of the Matrix. He can take over anyone’s body inside the Matrix, and his clones have the same ability. Once he takes over the body, the mind is deleted, and the subject’s body is only kept alive by Agent Smith, so the persons mind dies. Now think of his duplication powers, they become real important here. Let’s follow the math. 1 agent duplicates, and makes 2 agents. 2 agents in return can clone 2 more agents making four. Now we are going down the line here. But at that pace, Agent Smith can infect the mind of everyone in the Matrix within a given amount of time. If he does take over everyone, and shuts himself down, the matrix will crash, and everyone dies. This is what makes Agent Smith the most dangerous person in the Matrix.
Why was Neo was created?
According to the Architect, Neo was an animally, or a mathematical equation that had to occur. If his role is not to free those in the Matrix, then what is his role? The answer is he was made to kill Agent Smith. For every animally that is formed to be good, there is one to be bad. And Agent Smith is the exact opposite of Neo. Above we already stated why Agent Smith is so dangerous, and now we know that Neo is what needs to stop him. Your argument could be that Neo created Agent Smith. Well that is true, but maybe the Architect saw a case, or predicted a case, when there would be a virus as strong as Agent Smith. If that Virus occurred before Neo was made, then that virus could destroy the Matrix, with no fight. So, he formulated a situation, where Neo would create this virus, and then get rid of it. Or serve as its vaccine, which will then be planted into the Matrix from it ever happening again.
This explains why the Oracle helps Neo as well. And by watching the third trailer you notice she is the one speaking of how Neo needs to destroy Agent Smith, and on the side there are thousands of Agent Smiths.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
I saw the movie tonight and I thought it was downright terrible. Why?
- In the original Matrix - Morphues told Neo to run if he saw an Agent , that no one had ever defeated an Agent and guess what? That\'s what they did. They ran from Agent\'s, \'cept for Neo at the end. In this one, goin\' up against an Agent was an everyday thing and no big deal.
[/B]
It\'s possible that they have learned much from Neo. Morpheus and Trinity are able to bend the rules a little better than they did in the first movie, whereas Neo can change it around him.
As for your comment about the Rave scene in the cave, I agree it was long and drawn out. However, it was to convey humanity\'s freedom of expression and to use their bodies with feeling and passion where they could never have while attached to the Matrix.
Are you familiar with Dante\'s Inferno? The rave cave scene was similar. Do you recall Persephone? The Italian hottie who got a passionate kiss from Neo? In Greek mythology, she\'s the wife of Hades. The queen who yearns to be back to the surface. In Greek myth, when she does come back, Spring returns to Earth. When she leaves to go back to her husband, Autumn and Winter take over.
It\'s possible that she will have an integral part in the next movie. A very pivitol role. Maybe.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Because if humans are left free, they will attack the Matrix and sabatage it.
they could\'ve just killed humans, and than used cows
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Originally posted by politiepet
they could\'ve just killed humans, and than used cows
I don\'t think the cows survived the nukes.
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That whole rave thing reminded me of the Ewok village scene at the end of Return of the Jedi... just a bit more mature.
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And far less hair. :D
EWOKS????
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I still think you people are drawing straws and that in the end - the movie won\'t be near as complicated as some of your guys theories.
Though at this point it is painfully obvious that Agent Smith is the key point to the story. I tend to agree with the idea that he could infect everyone and Neo\'s true purpose is to destory Agent Smith.
I was looking for the "uncopyable" special effects that one of the directors claimed Reloaded would have. I saw nothing that couldn\'t be copied - unless they was talking about the Twins and I truly doubt they was.
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All this movie seemed to me was a way to long intro to the 3rd installment.
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So very true and with little to no pay-off , for that long intro.
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Hopefully the payoff is that Revolution is actually a great movie, but I don\'t know how much of a chance that is.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
That whole rave thing reminded me of the Ewok village scene at the end of Return of the Jedi... just a bit more mature.
For some odd reason i thought this too.
To quote another person\'s theory : Agent Smith cloning power is integral to the Matrix. Now being a virus, Agent Smith becomes the most dangerous portion of the Matrix. He can take over anyone’s body inside the Matrix, and his clones have the same ability. Once he takes over the body, the mind is deleted, and the subject’s body is only kept alive by Agent Smith, so the persons mind dies. Now think of his duplication powers, they become real important here. Let’s follow the math. 1 agent duplicates, and makes 2 agents. 2 agents in return can clone 2 more agents making four. Now we are going down the line here. But at that pace, Agent Smith can infect the mind of everyone in the Matrix within a given amount of time. If he does take over everyone, and shuts himself down, the matrix will crash, and everyone dies. This is what makes Agent Smith the most dangerous person in the Matrix.
Why was Neo was created?
According to the Architect, Neo was an animally, or a mathematical equation that had to occur. If his role is not to free those in the Matrix, then what is his role? The answer is he was made to kill Agent Smith. For every animally that is formed to be good, there is one to be bad. And Agent Smith is the exact opposite of Neo. Above we already stated why Agent Smith is so dangerous, and now we know that Neo is what needs to stop him. Your argument could be that Neo created Agent Smith. Well that is true, but maybe the Architect saw a case, or predicted a case, when there would be a virus as strong as Agent Smith. If that Virus occurred before Neo was made, then that virus could destroy the Matrix, with no fight. So, he formulated a situation, where Neo would create this virus, and then get rid of it. Or serve as its vaccine, which will then be planted into the Matrix from it ever happening again.
This explains why the Oracle helps Neo as well. And by watching the third trailer you notice she is the one speaking of how Neo needs to destroy Agent Smith, and on the side there are thousands of Agent Smiths.
Ok i hear that you agree with all of this but the architect couldnt see the virus that was to become smith and so if he made neo previous to that for the purpose of saving the people, then this means that your implying that there is no need for a "one." See im sure if the event of smith going haywire any other "one" would have tried to stop him as well. Plus, what was the point of neo creating the virus when the architect didnt know that it would occur in smith. It could have been any of those guys, its just that smith could have been the most outgoing of the trio. If i missed anything please tell me. This is just my two cents.
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All I have to say is that reloaded was 10 times better than the first. I felt that the story was explained in much more detail. I enjoyed every minute(except the end when they said To be concluded).
All and all reloaded kicked ass. I want to go see again. I can\'t wait for the next one.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
I saw the movie tonight and I thought it was downright terrible. Why?
- Fishburn\'s performance was sub-par. He was easily the best part of the first Matrix flick. In this one , every line he delivered seemed forced. Espically his speech at Zion.
- Zion looked and felt like crap. The CG was downright terrible in points.
- In the original Matrix - Morphues told Neo to run if he saw an Agent , that no one had ever defeated an Agent and guess what? That\'s what they did. They ran from Agent\'s, \'cept for Neo at the end. In this one, goin\' up against an Agent was an everyday thing and no big deal.
- Love story - forced and annoying. Reeves and Moss have no on screen chemisry what so ever.
- Agent Smith duplicating could of been cool, but instead it became a borin\' side plot.
- A lot of poor dialouge (the whole conversation with the man who held the Keymaster) . At points it seemed like the writers was tryin\' to get every big word , ever used in a sci-fi film and put them together in one big sentence. Downright poor.
- The scene in Zion where everyone is dancing and Neo is gettin\' laid. Come on - it was overly long and completely un-nessarcy.
- Speaking of overly long, the fight scenes, while was the only saving grace to the movie, was also overly long. You do not need a car chase scene to be 14 mintues long. It\'s just mind numbing.
Bright side? Reeves truly was \'The One\'. He was great in this flick and when he was flyin\' around, that was badass. However, all it did was make me wish for a new Superman movie.
Was lookin\' forward to this movie and came out disgusted.
Go freakin\' figure. [/B]
I figured you wouldn\'t like it. Man you need to get a grip dude. The matrix kicked ass. Your one of those movie critics that everyone hates. Who gives movies like "THE english Patient" 4 stars geesh:crap:
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Originally posted by QuDDus
All I have to say is that reloaded was 10 times better than the first. I felt that the story was explained in much more detail. I enjoyed every minute(except the end when they said To be concluded).
All and all reloaded kicked ass. I want to go see again. I can\'t wait for the next one.
Wow, I guess special effects is the money maker for the masses.
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Originally posted by Bozco
Wow, I guess special effects is the money maker for the masses.
I never even mentioned the special effects. Yes they where kick ass, but I feel that the matrix has a good story. Spider man was all special effects, but the content was horrible and it sucked.
I like the matrix plot that is why I enjoy it.
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I still like the idea that Persephone is an Intuitive Program and this gave her the curiosity about human emotions (in this case love)
Now read what the Architect said:
"Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche"
To investigate certian aspects of the human psyche. If that doesn\'t scream Persephone I dont know what does. Certian aspects... love. Neo, the anomoly, the culmination of the bug, is driven by what?
Love.
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I can\'t help it. I\'m like MM, when it comes to movie\'s. The Matrix was decent - but it wasn\'t really good cinema and Reloaded had really very few redeeming factors. It wasn\'t even a good popcorn flick.
The "Matrix plot" is a bunch of sub-plots or rip-off\'s from other films. There is hardly anything original about The Matrix. \'cept for special effects.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
I still like the idea that Persephone is an Intuitive Program and this gave her the curiosity about human emotions (in this case love)
Now read what the Architect said:
"Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche"
To investigate certian aspects of the human psyche. If that doesn\'t scream Persephone I dont know what does. Certian aspects... love. Neo, the anomoly, the culmination of the bug, is driven by what?
Love.
True. It does resemble something she might be behind but its confirmed that the oracle was the one that filled that role. Damn monica bellucci is hot.:D
I can\'t help it. I\'m like MM, when it comes to movie\'s. The Matrix was decent - but it wasn\'t really good cinema and Reloaded had really very few redeeming factors. It wasn\'t even a good popcorn flick.
I dont know what to say to this. I have mixed emotions but opinions are nobodys but ours i guess. I liked it. Wasnt the greatest, but it is buyable for me. Finish off the trilogy when revolutions comes out.
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
True. It does resemble something she might be behind but its confirmed that the oracle was the one that filled that role. Damn monica bellucci is hot.:D
Confirmed? Hells no.
And I quote:
The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo - The Oracle.
The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
The Architect CLEARLY insinuates that it\'s NOT the Oracle.
I be smrt. :D
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I just watched it about 10 hours ago and it was AWESOME! the ending left me hanging......I watched the trailer at the end and went home and found it on the net and Downloaded it. The Protector of the Oracle seems to have a bigger role in Revolutions. All the Neo\'s in the TV screens reactions were pretty funny.
:hat:ScottyJ:hat:
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Confirmed? Hells no.
And I quote:
The Architect CLEARLY insinuates that it\'s NOT the Oracle.
I be smrt. :D
please read this thread from the beginning, maybe then you\'ll understand! :rolleyes:
edit: forget what I said, that was a different thread. The reason why he said:"please", was because he hardly thinks of her as an oracle.
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He hardly thinks of Persephone as the Oracle? Is that what you thought Neo was saying and the Architect disagreed by saying "Please"?
Read my post a few more times. Then you\'ll understand.
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nono, what I meant was: the architect responds with: "please", because he doesn\'t think of \'the oracle\' as being an oracle
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The Architect - If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo - The Oracle.
The Architect - Please.
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Neo thought the Oracle was the mother. The Architect seems to disagree.
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indeed! but the real question is:What does he disagree on?
you think he disagrees on the fact that the oracle is the \'mother\'
but I think he disagrees on calling the oracle......the oracle, because it is not an oracle, but merely a computer program (contrarely to what morpheus believed)
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Just got home from the movie. It was OK, nothing mindblowing. I thought the fight scenes were very well done, but it kinda sucked always having to see Neo all the time.
Wish those twins didn\'t die so quick (Morpheus blew them up right?)... They were badass, they sorta reminded me of Nightcrawler in X2.
The Revolutions trailer at the end sucked IMO. It was pretty much of the same repetitive Neo vs. Smith crap, but I can understand, maybe they don\'t want to give too much out.
Oh yeah, Full Throttle trailer was the best.... ;)
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Originally posted by politiepet
indeed! but the real question is:What does he disagree on?
you think he disagrees on the fact that the oracle is the \'mother\'
Originally posted by GmanJoe
The Architect - If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo - The Oracle.
The Architect - Please.
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Neo thought the Oracle was the mother. The Architect seems to disagree.
Two quotes. That way you see it. :)
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I\'m not saying you\'re wrong, but it\'s just one possibility.
I think he meant something else when he said: please
I\'ll try to explain again (sigh):
The Architect - If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo - The Oracle.
The Architect - Please.
now, what do we see here....:
neo suggests, the mother is the oracle, to which the architect replies with: please. although he obviously disagrees with neo, he does not say that the oracle is not the mother.
in my opinion all he disagrees on is that the oracle should be called oracle, because his opinion is that it isn\'t an oracle.
so when he says "please" he meant to say: I wouldn\'t want to call her an oracle, because she is incapable of forseeing the future!
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"Cursing in French - it\'s like wiping your ass with SILK!"
:laughing: FUNNIEST LINE EVAR!
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Originally posted by QuDDus
I never even mentioned the special effects. Yes they where kick ass, but I feel that the matrix has a good story. Spider man was all special effects, but the content was horrible and it sucked.
I like the matrix plot that is why I enjoy it.
The story in the second was mind numbing! It was 2 hours of action and fluff. I can\'t believe I\'m reading this.
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i start reading this thread because i didnt understand much the story myself (seen it once). i\'ve looked other message boards that would have a simmilar thread, and here something interesting that was posted, totally in the line of ryu\'s ideas
First off I agree with people who belive there are 2 matrixes. It fits with what the architect says and what neo does at the end of the movie. Here is why.
The architectt babbles on about perfection and control and that no matter how good his formulas were 1% of the humans still rejected his 1999 matrix. So he engineered the oracle and the Zion matrix. The oracle serves her role by steering the non belivers into the Zion matrix, something their minds will accept.
Still, that system is not perfect either and Neo is the culmination of that imperfection, someone who rejects both matrixes (although we dont see this until the end). But even Neo has to be controled, the machines are really big on control, but the only control the architect can come up with is choice. You see the many choices Neo can make on the monitors of the Architect\'s room. Only at the end when Neo choses to save Trinity and doom humanity do all the screens agree. There is only one path, Neo\'s choice is easy because he doesn\'t belive "in all that fate crap."
In the next few scenes that follow the point is really hammered home incase you missed it in the architect\'s speech. Neo\'s mind is working itself around everything it has learned, as it frees itself he is even less bound by the rules of the 1999 matrix. He catches trinity, alters fate as presented in his dreams and brings her back from the dead. A cool, if not blunt exposition of his newfound enlightenment (and as cool as this was I think it is just a prelude of things to come when agent smith and neo are god figures in the 1999 matrix).
Lastly back in "the real world" the sentinels arive and the lead-in to Revolutions begins. Neo can feel the sentinels like he can feel agents, he begins to realize fully the implications of what the architect said and stops the sentinels like he would bullets in the 1999 matrix. After this Neo to slip into a coma, possibly because he awakes in the real real world and leaves all of his digital self behind but I kind of doubt it. If the machines are going to have 2 layers of control why not 10, why not 10,000. I kind of think Neo and Agent Smith are going to be able to move freely between the 2 matrixes now that they know they exist.
Now, Agent Smith, he is actually my favorite character. Agent Smith in this movie has been set free, exactly like he says. Smith is a program, written to operate in a rule based system. Some of these rules are key to the operation of that system, rules like physics. Rules that say when you shoot someone 5 times in the chest at point blank range with a Desert Eagle they will die and when someone is dead they cannot come back to life. These rules were shattered right in front of his eyes when Neo realized he was the one at the end of The Matrix.
Agent Smith\'s freedom comes when Neo destroys him. At that point Smith knows he should be deleted, he has been destroyed and the rules say its deletion time. But Smith knows the rules can be broken now so he doesn\'t need to be deleted if he doesn\'t want to. But why would he want to stick around? ... To destroy Neo. So Smith re-enters the matrix and learns new things as he tests the rules.
The next revalation for Smith comes when he finds he can leave the 1999 matrix. That shouldn\'t be possible but since he knows the rules dont mean anything he tries, and succeeds (further proof of a Zion matrix). The revelation that there are at least 2 layers to the matrix doesn\'t mean much to Smith however because he only has 1 purpose, kill Neo.
So in the end when you distill down the movie you get this:
Neo embodies Choice.
Trinity, Love.
Morpheus, Fate.
The Oracle, Knowledge.
Agent Smith, Purpose.
The Architect, the impossible quest for perfection.
There are at least 2 matrixes.
What I see coming in Revolutions:
-Neo see\'s the Zion matrix for what it is.
-Neo and Agent Smith learn to move freely from one matrix to the other.
-Neo and Agent Smith battle in the 1999 matrix with god like powers.
-Humanity has to make a choice: "what is real? what if there is just another matrix under this one? where do we stop?"
-They choose to cast the machines out of the Zion matrix and make it their own.
that movie was excelent :)
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I got the whole animatrix DVD and I highly recommend it.. Watched it yesterday, very good flick. Love animà -
I gather some of the artists who did Vampire Hunter D did one of the shorts, very well done sounds great.
I have not read over this thread, so sorry if I am jumping out of context. I just did not want to start a new thread just to say what I said. peace
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I saw the new Matrix last weekend, and needless to say, I can\'t say it was absolutely spectacular nor it was a complete dud.
Yes, this movie in some way, shape or form is a rip off of past movies, but again, so is the rest of mainstream Hollywood these days.
I just think this installment of The Matrix: Reloaded was to show the industry and people how far special effects has escalated over the years. I thought the freeway scene was something else, but I mean, the first installment of Speed presented this to us before.
I think this was geared towards the average viewers. The most cynical critics probably ate this for lunch as well as the true cinema fanatics who have a vast history of previous moves like this one.
No doubt was this movie a tremendous success at where it matters most, and that is sales. May have not faired well with critics, but at the end of the day, is a movie released to please critics or make some loot?
I rate this movie average.
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Originally posted by Bozco
The story in the second was mind numbing! It was 2 hours of action and fluff. I can\'t believe I\'m reading this.
Yes your reading it because it is my opinion. I found it to be very good. Everything doesn\'t taste good to everyone. So if you don\'t like it don\'t eat it.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Yes your reading it because it is my opinion. I found it to be very good. Everything doesn\'t taste good to everyone. So if you don\'t like it don\'t eat it.
As if I didn\'t realize it was your opinion. :snore:
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I\'ve tried finding the AniMatrix DVD (only because that there is new anime material from the makes of Cowboy Bebop and Vampire Hunter D), no luck though. I am extremely curious in some of the shorts.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
I\'ve tried finding the AniMatrix DVD (only because that there is new anime material from the makes of Cowboy Bebop and Vampire Hunter D), no luck though. I am extremely curious in some of the shorts.
Yeah it doesnt come out till june i belive. I have seen about 5 of the 9 i think it was. If you want to be cheep you can rip some off kazaa of course :D
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Wow, stupid phone company disconnected my phone. Losers.
Anyways, the matrix is the best movie EVER. The Matrix:Reloaded is the Second best movie ever. THE BESTEST MOVIE EVEEEEEEER is Lion King....Yes I said Lion King.
The Matrix has one of the deepest most tought out stories in a movie ever. Critics say the acting sucks...to me it fits the type of mood and scenario the movie takes place in. Why would they feel any kind of feeling or try to enjoy the matrix if it isn\'t real? Why should they show any kind of emotion or care if they know they\'re not really showing it? Also the way Neo is portrayed is excellent. He doesn\'t talk much, but when he talks I get the feeling that he is confused or like overwhelmed with what he knows and what people expect of him. That\'s why he is so serious. Morpheous is tough all out because thats the only way that he seems like the boss. He knows he needs to be assuring and not show any kind of weakness....
All in all....
I give it 10 out of 5 stars.
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SirMystiq, just wondering, how old are you?
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Hehe! I liked The Little Mermaid! And I\'m.....old. But then again, I\'m still a kid. Just older. :p
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Originally posted by Bozco
SirMystiq, just wondering, how old are you?
Does this have to do with the Lion King comment?....Ohh c\'mon man you know that movie was the best!
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No, I was leaning more towards you saying the Matrix was the best movie ever.
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The Matrix has one fo the most deep and thought provoking stories ever? Maybe, if you have a short attention span..
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Deepest most thought out story ever....Babylon 5, trust me.
Anyhoo, just came back from the flick, decent enough. Dance scene waaayy too long.
Strong beliver in the two matrix theory here, whereas the supposed real world is a much smaller universe with much fewer beings it\'s much closer too perfection than the \'99 universe, where rogue programs can hang out and do whatever the fudge they want, that is why the agents are there, too make sure those rogues don\'t overstep their authority, like the agents said in the chase scene "the exile is our primary target" and said Trinity wasn\'t important.
It would seem to me that the Matrix is becoming too much for even the machines to handle, first of all, they just don\'t get humans thus the anomaly is created, 2nd of all they create sentiant programs which one could say are then infected by humans, choose life over deletion and seem to do whatever they can to have a nice life in the Matrix.
Read on another messageboard that that French guy was infact an older One and whatnot. I really don\'t care
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Originally posted by nO-One
Deepest most thought out story ever....Babylon 5, trust me.
Anyhoo, just came back from the flick, decent enough. Dance scene waaayy too long.
Strong beliver in the two matrix theory here, whereas the supposed real world is a much smaller universe with much fewer beings it\'s much closer too perfection than the \'99 universe, where rogue programs can hang out and do whatever the fudge they want, that is why the agents are there, too make sure those rogues don\'t overstep their authority, like the agents said in the chase scene "the exile is our primary target" and said Trinity wasn\'t important.
It would seem to me that the Matrix is becoming too much for even the machines to handle, first of all, they just don\'t get humans thus the anomaly is created, 2nd of all they create sentiant programs which one could say are then infected by humans, choose life over deletion and seem to do whatever they can to have a nice life in the Matrix.
Read on another messageboard that that French guy was infact an older One and whatnot. I really don\'t care
I dont believe that whole french guy was the one thing. It would have been obvious because neo would have seen it. Plus he wouldnt be able to hide in the matrix because he would be plugged in somewhere where the machines would get him unless you figure hes working for them. In that case he would have the power to destroy neo himself. Not possible.
Second, i still dont get how the programs have a conciousness and dont run by protocal. That and why the machines just cant delete the program considering they are all linked to the machine mainframe. Without it how could they operate?
For some odd reason the more i talk about it, the less i belive there are two matrixies. There could be though. That would be a lot to explain though in the next film.
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A lot to explain and I almost gurantee most of it won\'t be explained. People are making the story seem deeper than it really is.
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Damn you L-i-C, you posted my exact thoughts on page 4! Wark! I almost walked out during the cave scene, honestly. And the french guy made me want to scream. We\'re not stupid, really. (some of us are, but most aren\'t)
And for you people who like to think deeeep, you considered what Zion stands for?
Zion
1. The historic land of Israel as a symbol of the Jewish people.
The Jewish people; Israel.
2. A place or religious community regarded as sacredly devoted to God.
3. An idealized, harmonious community; utopia.
Idealized, harmonious community? When dealing with people, that\'s a real utopia, if you ask me. Just more stuck-in symbolism hinting that the Zion isn\'t real. The second tab also gives room for much speculation, but I hated the film enough not to go too deep :p
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my thoughts on the movie,
lots of eyecandy, nice fight scenes. thats about it.
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So true.
I\'d be all for a Neo only movie, where he flys around and kicks ass in general. As long as it doesn\'t have some cliche\'d and borin\' script.
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Ok wether any of you care or not is one thing but i saw it for the third time (i took my mother out to see it since she hadnt) and i realized that Zion is not destroyed. All this time i was thinking that they were talking about zion when they rescued neo and them and sait it was a slaughter. They were reffering to the ships defending the attack points, (one had smith on it, thus the cause of the early emp (im guessing)). Smith was thus the survivor. Neo even said before he fell into a damn coma that they had 24 hours before the attack and in the new trailer you see the squidies (sentinals) attacking zion. So just to clear that up for you all that might browse over this. Zion is not dead.
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DUUUMB YOU THOUGHT ZION WAS DESTROYED......HAHAHAHA
:) nah im just playin wit ya bro
Newayz yeah, if you play the Matrix game you get to see what happens. The Smith dude kills all the peeps aboard this ship, and he sets off the EMP causin the other ships nearby to loose power therefore the squidies come right in for a quick kill. Remember all the Ships were supposed to set tehir EMP off at the same time. But Smith ****ed it up.
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Finally saw it... bah. Give me ROTK. :)
I didn\'t read the whole thread yet, but will do and then give some of my opinions.
But let\'s just say that I was a bit ... underwhelmed. The Zion parts were a tad slow and/or boring. Sure, great effects but still... I\'ll go see it again soon.
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I\'ve got a few thoughts about the whole "The Matrix" universe. It doesn\'t necessarily relate only to Matrix: Reloaded.
1) In theory - in our real world - a simulation would be just that: a simulation. Meaning that the \'people\' living inside the simulation are not real people, but rather complicated pieces of programming. So there wouldn\'t be a \'living\' human being behind every simulated person in the simulated world.
2) Let\'s assume there\'s a matrix inside a matrix. Why stop at two simulations? There could be hundreds of simulations, where in each one \'person\' would believe it\'s the only one - the \'real\' world.
3) If the machines really were living off humans, then why bother to create a matrix for them to live in at all? And how would it even be possible to connect living humans into a simulation (I know it\'s just a movie/theory and all, but still)? As I see it there would be two options:
- Either the humans used for energy are in a state of coma, not realising a damn thing about the real world they exist in
- or the humans would be consious of their (ab)use and capture by the machines. Either way it shouldn\'t be too hard for such advanced machines to make sure that the humans couldn\'t move/escape, thus making it moot whether they\'re aware of their fate or not. But the first option would be easier for the machines I reckon.
I\'m sure I could think of a lot more regarding this issue, but I gotta go now. Perhaps there\'ll be more later. :D
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I bought the Animatrix DVD yesterday. I must admit that I liked and enjoyed much more than I had expected. I don\'t like anime, but these episodes rock. It may be because deal with the matrix plot... anyway, I liked \'em, except the last one (matriculated), that was a very puzzling and abstract.
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The only episodes I like are.
\'The Final Flight of Orisis\'
\' The Second Renissance : Part 2 \'
\' Program \'
\' Beyond \'
\'A Detective Story\'
Any of the others I found to be filler and don\'t get me started on \' Matriculated\' . I found it just to be downright annoying.
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Second Renissance : Part 2 - The part of the Matrix history I\'d really wanted to see, certainly the best Animatrix.
Although for some reason I really liked World Record.
Am I odd?
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Originally posted by Samwise
I\'ve got a few thoughts about the whole "The Matrix" universe. It doesn\'t necessarily relate only to Matrix: Reloaded.
2) Let\'s assume there\'s a matrix inside a matrix. Why stop at two simulations? There could be hundreds of simulations, where in each one \'person\' would believe it\'s the only one - the \'real\' world.
3) If the machines really were living off humans, then why bother to create a matrix for them to live in at all? And how would it even be possible to connect living humans into a simulation (I know it\'s just a movie/theory and all, but still)? As I see it there would be two options:
- Either the humans used for energy are in a state of coma, not realising a damn thing about the real world they exist in
- or the humans would be consious of their (ab)use and capture by the machines. Either way it shouldn\'t be too hard for such advanced machines to make sure that the humans couldn\'t move/escape, thus making it moot whether they\'re aware of their fate or not. But the first option would be easier for the machines I reckon.
I\'m sure I could think of a lot more regarding this issue, but I gotta go now. Perhaps there\'ll be more later. :D
Yeah about number two. I Made a theory kinda like that but the new matrixes were just spawned after history repeated itself in a matrix. So a new marix formulates itselfevery cycle.
and #3: ive wondered about that too. I dont quite get it but it may be that the humans cant be kept in a constant state of sleep mentally and in dreams you often wake up or if you dont, your dream becomes a reality to your brain thus causing the body to go into trauma when it cant wake up out of maybe a nightmare etc. So to swing around this problem the matrix was created and kept the mind and body busy and free of any of the reprocussions of eternal sleep.
I wonder how many machines there are and how much power is generated by a single human being because then the amount of people needed would be tremendous. But anyway how do the machines make babies? They say that people are grown and not born. If thats true then they cant inpregnate a woman or remove her sexual reproductions organs because then it would be obvious to the people in the "real world." Meh just something to think about.
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Yes
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Matrix is necessary because of the emotional background in humans. A human cannot live without mind, I mean, without a minimum knowledge of the environment. Have you ever heard about those babies that born under coma status? They dye after some months / few years. But not due to the coma, but the psychological factor. Matrix is the only way to keep the brain alive, so that the body can also live.
It is virtually possible to create a matrix in a determined human. Perhaps not at that level of matrix but yes at low stages. In the future it will be possible. I\'m sure. Virtual reality and electric brain waves have being developed for years...
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Green, I thought the animation hurt \'World Record\', espically the way the agents was animated.
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I saw The Matrix Reloaded yesterday, and loved it. Not every minute of it - but the Matrix saga, as an overall \'thus far, works well. If one claims that the plot wasn\'t \'thought-provoking\' or \'overly complicated\', he / she hasn\'t read through this thread. The best thing about the film, really, was it\'s plot. Do you really care whether Matrix is a sum of rip-offs? Given that it is nearly an impossibility to create anything original these days, The Matrix was a daring sum of old ideas presented in a very modern fashion. Kudos to Wachowskis for that.
Currently, I agree with Ryu and his well-written replies. It would be stupid and futile to repeat statements that have already been written to near perfection by another person. In other words, you stole my thoughts, Ryu ;)
Samwise, you also presented one theory that raced through my mind yesterday-night. The theory of many layers within Matrix - or Matrixes within the Matrix; or Matrixes. What if there exists an endless amount of Matrixes, each with slightly different mathematical equations to start with? Read the multi-verse theory and you will understand my point, if you didn\'t already ;)
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seeing that i missed the last couple of minutes of the movie and since i had nothing better to do, i went to watch it again yesterday.
while watching the movie some of the ideas that were presented in this thread were running thru my head, this gave the movie a whole new perspective. the ending made the theory of a second matrix sound possible seeing how neo felt the sentinels comming and then stopped them.
but then something poped into my head, agent smith said that their was a connection between them maybe they have a part of each other in the them (when neo destroyed smith in the first part or maybe when smith tried to transform neo before the fight scene) now if i\'m not mistaken, agents are able to communicate with the machines.
now if neo has a part of smith in him that would give him some of the agents powers right, thus giving him some control over the sentinels their by stopping them.
sorry if it sounds distorted (and most probably flawed) but i cant think of another way to put it right now.