PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: videoholic on September 08, 2003, 10:16:13 AM
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iTunes Sells 10 Millionth Song
In just over four months, Apple\'s iTunes music service has sold 10 million songs.
The company said that the service, which sells individual songs for 99 cents and allows more freedom for owners than most legal download sites, has averaged 500,000 a week since its introduction.
The milestone song was a copy of Avril Levigne\'s "Complicated," which was downloaded on Sept. 3
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Makes sense to me. I would much rather pay 10 bucks for 10 songs I want than 14 bucks for 1.
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Indeed, why pay lots of dough for an album where you actually just want 3-4 songs.
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Hey when this service is available for Windows I\'ll register for it the next time I want to download a song. I\'ll still use Kazaa though to test it and see if it\'s worth buying. Some songs ain\'t worth $.99!
I already payed for Musicmatch\'s MX service which is basically digital radio. I love it and it actually feels goods that the artists are getting reimbursed for their talent.
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I have a question for all you:
If I go to the airport (or wherever) and the cop asks me to show him my bag and see 4 cds in which they\'re written 4 famous bands\' names... how the hell can I demonstrate that I paid for those songs and they\'re copied in those discs legally?
Everybody could say if cops ask that they\'re purchased through itunes.
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You shouldn\'t have to. You are allowed to make copies of your own discs. Heck, it\'s just as illegal to make a photocopy of a magazine page you don\'t own too.
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Originally posted by videoholic
You shouldn\'t have to. You are allowed to make copies of your own discs. Heck, it\'s just as illegal to make a photocopy of a magazine page you don\'t own too.
Hey wait wait... I paid for that song and I CAN burn it on a cd if i must format my HDD, what\'s the problem? That\'s just like if you would buy a car but can\'t refuel.. only with the oil it brings..
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I think I am confused. You can make a copy of the song if it\'s for your own personal use.
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Here appears the legal/ethic problem I\'ve always exposed when speaking about the matters of mp3 music or sharing programs.
Just imagine that you are going to get married next week and then you go to the shop and buy a nice Valentino jacket that cost $1500 to you. You get married and keep your jacket in the closet. It happens that next year your brother is going to get married too and you decide to lend that expensive jacket to your brother, because it\'s yours and you wanna share it with the people you want. Since the moment you paid for that article, Valentino has nothing to do with it. It\'s legally yours. It cannot say what can you do with it or what cannot. It\'s yours and you can burn it if want.
Just try to figure out that you buy a Ferrari and the contract says that you cannot lend that car to anybody. WHY? Why I cannot lend MY CAR to a friend? Or to my father? IT IS MINE.
So here you have the same ethical problem. If I paid for a Metallica disc, who will avoid me to share it with my friends through emule? It\'s mine. I can do with it what I want. Metallica cannot tell me what I can do and what I cannot.. because since I paid for it the album is mine, not of Metallica. Another thing is that you think: "ok, share my disc with 1 million people is not perhaps right for the sake of the authors", but IMO it\'s legal.
If companies are sooooo interested in avoiding sharing and piracy I can tell you 101 effective solutions. First: better footage. Second: Drop prices. Third: etc, etc...
Here the problem is that companies think that they can tell you what you must do with your articles and I think that\'s legally wrong.
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The difference is that you cannot instantly make an exact copy of the jacket or the Ferrari that is so good, it\'s functionally identical to the original. Therefore, both your friend and you cannot be driving the Ferrari at the same time. If you each want your own Ferrari, you have to buy two of them.
As you well know, with audio CDs you can make a copy that is virtually indistinguishable from the original. The only differences will be the printing on the label, and the booklet that comes with it.
I\'m not trying to defend the RIAA here... I have always held that it\'s their GREED that is causing all their problems. There are people who would be willing to pay a little in order to stay within the law, but only if the price is REASONABLE. I was totally prepared to buy an audio CD a couple weeks ago, and the lowest price I could find online was $16.99. It was UN-F**KING-BELIEVABLE. No way was I going to pay that much, even though I can afford it. I would have paid $10.99 though. No question. The recording industry needs to wake up to the fact that a price adjustment, and increased respect for their customers is what is needed, not more idiotic lawsuits and legislation.
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So far, from what I read in your post, you haven\'t exposed any legal fallacies. However, for the sake of argument, I\'ll reply to each of your examples and show you the flaws they contain.
First off, you have your example of the jacket. The reason why you can lend it to him and no one says anything about it or complains is because the two of you can\'t wear it at the same time. Either of you is wearing it, but never at the same time. You can get technical with it supposing you replicated the jacket with the same material in the same style so the two were identical in every way, but you could be fined for that if you give them away on the street and possibly even arrested.
Then there\'s the example of the Ferrari... Anyone can drive the Ferrari, but those who do need to be insured to drive it. If they are not and that person gets in an accident, they\'re fundamentally screwed for everything they\'re worth and your car becomes useless and your insurance rates skyrocket.
Now you have the Metallica CD -- sure, you can lend it to your friends, but the point is, in the comfort of your own respective homes, the two of you are not listening to it at the same time. If you made a copy, and gave them a copy of it, then you are breaking the copyright act which is exactly the same thing as I spoke of with your jacket scenario. Why do you think copying games and distributing them is illegal or programs or OS\' or anything else that can be reproduced for free for that matter?
It\'s the same things for books as well. If I reproduced the original screenplay for Star Wars on the web, I\'d be given a cease and desist order from George Lucas in seconds and if I didn\'t, I\'d be sued and prosecuted simply because the script is reprinted in a book that can be purchased. It\'s the same thing as stealing no matter how you sugar coat it. All because it\'s easier and because everyone is doing it, doesn\'t make it right.
I’m not trying to say I’m above everyone because I have fractured an occasional law from time to time regarding this whole subject, but I’m not going to lie to myself and convince myself that what I’m doing is right by striking back at the illegal record producers or profiteering programmers or the evil Nazi practices of Microsoft.
As for iTunes, I\'m going to get it without a doubt as soon as the program comes out for Windows in the coming 3 months. I have no gumption with paying .99 for a song when the latter is paying 15.99-17.99 for a CD where only 4 songs are worth listening to.
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How about getting 14 songs you want, for absolutly nothing??!!?
Thats the system I\'m using, and it seems to work fine!
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iTunes is a great idea. They are trying to get more apple users by starting this as an apple-only d/l. If they come out with a web interface then I\'ll be looking at becoming a customer myself. However I\'m not down with these file format restrictions. If I can\'t burn it to CD or convert it to .ogg I\'m not going to be interested in it.
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**** it....
Im sure sales havent gone down that much.
These thousands of unknown bands are being discovered through free music every day, musical industry as a community is booming.
Pay for music? God damn, if the musicians need the money so bad why are they owning 3 houses, 12 expensive cars, and their own plane? Im sure their life is terrible :rolleyes:
Im gonna continue to download free music- until I\'m caught. And they can try to bust my ass for piracy.
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Where I wanted to go dudes is that Valentino and Ferrari are also lossing clients and money if you share their products, as well as music.
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I love dumb teen angst (note: Spudz ). You have zero clue about the issue at hand, but it\'s the "cool thing" to do. It\'s a f**kin\' herd menatlity and I\'m sure if everyone jumped off a cliff, you\'d do it also. Hopefully, they will get you for piracy, though I don\'t think it\'d matter, as you are underage and your parents will end up havin\' to pay the lawsuit off.
And Adan, to my knowledge the cops cannot question you if you downloaded music, just because they see you have some cd-r\'s with a famous band name on it. They would need a warrant for that. If they said something, you could refuse to answer it.
Also, I don\'t see how some of you cannot "get it". Sharing music is illegal. You are making a copy and givin\' it out to people. You can make your copy for back up, but nothing more. You cannot give it out. That is a violation of the law. It\'s really quite simple.
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Well I\'m not with you LIC, sorry. About the cops, imagine you go to the airport and carry a bag with 150 cds you\'ve downloaded from itunes and burn into cds to carry to your new home. I doubt that you can abandon the airport with your cds. Seriously.
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I don\'t get the problem Adan. They have no probable cause that you didn\'t pay for the CDs. If they were tracking you, watching you download the music for free, then nabbed you at the airport with the discs, then yes.
But you just have a bunch of CDs that you may/may not have paid for. Big whoop.
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:laughing: Looks like Adan is gonna try something...
Anyway, I\'m with Vapor here. I haven\'t bought a music cd in years. Napster, Morpheus, and Kazaa have done it all for me and will continue too until it can\'t be done any longer.
Recently though, the files I have downloaded have become utter crap. So I may have to find some other way to get my music sooner or later. That or I\'ll just listen to the radio. And please don\'t start with the mainstream music is crap thing you guys always seem to do. :)
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I can read today in a local newspaper:
2 guys arrested while driving a car with a badg of 200 pirated cds that may be destined to illegal shops.
There is the problem guys.
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Maybe in your country, but not America.
The cop\'s cannot arrest you for just havin\' a bunch of cd\'s. They need probable cause and a warrant to search anything you have. I don\'t know how Spain is - but in America, there is no problem. And if the cop\'s did take your cds, you could end up suin\' the shit out of the city / state.
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I don\'t see what\'s so difficult to understand here Adan. If you\'re against the law, that\'s great, but it doesn\'t mean it\'s nullified because you disagree with it. If it\'s against the law, then it\'s against the law -- there\'s no disputing it unless it goes to the Supreme Court or however way you guys change laws in Spain. Here in the states, your bag is searched at the airport, but having CD\'s in your bag isn\'t enough evidence to search them for pirated music. Plus, they would need a warrant to search the contents of those CD\'s since those items could potentially be private information for a corporation, a private business, or even love notes from yoru girlfriend. There\'s no way to be sure.
I think maybe you\'re blowing this way out of proportion. Everyone they nab here in the states for pirating music is generally watched for an amount of time before they "storm the castle" so to speak and the reason for that is to acquire evidence for a proper warrant for a search and siezure. I\'ve never heard about someone going to an airport and being arrested because they had their bag searched and there was some blank CD\'s in there.
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Originally posted by Seed_Of_Evil
I can read today in a local newspaper:
2 guys arrested while driving a car with a badg of 200 pirated cds that may be destined to illegal shops.
There is the problem guys.
Adan there is a difference between a home user who downloads a bunch of cd\'s (that they paid for) and burned them to cd and a couple of guys with 200 cd from the same artist or a couple of artist they are meant to look like the "real" cd.
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Ok calm down guys...
Perhaps i\'m "blowing this out of proportion" because the sitation we\'re living right now in Spain. SGAE (Sociedad General de Autores Españoles = General Society of Spanish Authors) has spoken with the government and since 1st September every cd-rom is imposed by a "canon" of 20% - 40% because they say that every disc is used for copying music. So, the same disc you paid for 50cent on 31th October, costs you 85cent today. Just figure out how is the people.
They\'re criminalising the simple act of burning a cd, no matter what\'s inside. If i wanna burn my own program i made yesterday into a cd, i\'ll be paying to the authors with this shameful, absurd law.
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Today\'s front page of the Hollywood Reporter bears the headline "RIAA LAUNCHES LEGAL OFFENSIVE - \'Major\' file sharers targeted." The story states that the RIAA filed 261 lawsuits on Monday against individual file sharers.
This is so stupid it\'s becoming comical. Anyone who wants to seriously start trading mp3s should switch entirely to the alt.binaries groups on Usenet. Reading, downloading, and even posting files on Usenet can be completely anonymous if you know what you\'re doing. It\'s so much more secure for the end user than the current crop of P2P applications.
No matter how much they cripple online file sharing, they will still never be able to eliminate individual CD duplication. Every technology they come up with will be defeated sooner or later. They can\'t fight this. They can only live with it and control it. If they lower their prices, the BUYERS (like me) will return. It\'s so simple.
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Then of course there\'s always the good ol\' FTP system that is still working strong today. The other possibilities are endless. :)
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Maybe in a perfect world the 5-0\'s wouldn\'t search u w/o a warrant but on Earth they do what they want. And with the crap that went down on 9-11, police, FBI, and the CIA have all the authority they need to do what they want.
The smart thing to do would be to NOT travel like a "dealer" with your 200 CDRs whether they are legal or not; you\'ll have a hard time coming up w/receipts at airport security booth.
The difference in this situation is that the RIAA *THINKS* they are police and that they have jurisdiction everywhere. In lots of countries they impose unlawful taxes on CDR sales b/c of jackasses like the RIAA and I for one, can\'t wait until they bust these bastards w/a harrasment suit as long as my schlong. And that\'s freakin big :worship:
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Downloading songs wasn\'t really a taboo until the people up in RIAA with lots of free time in their hands decided to earn back those extra quarters they need to wash their ferrari\'s.
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And that my Sir, is just ignorant. Downloading songs has always been around in FTP / NewsGroups /IRC and what not. Napster just made it more popular and easier for people with little knowledge of the previous mentioned programs / protocalls. It made it so easy that everyone jumped on and done it. Once the RIAA took notice that their product was being stolen left and right, then everyone came up with the \'fight the man\' attitude. Didn\'t make it more taboo - it just means a bunch of people who think it is the "cool thing to do" jumped on the bandwagon.
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Ok you win. But you need to get away from the "cool thing to do" crap. It\'s more of the "cheap thing to do".
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I love dumb teen angst (note: Spudz ). You have zero clue about the issue at hand, but it\'s the "cool thing" to do. It\'s a f**kin\' herd menatlity and I\'m sure if everyone jumped off a cliff, you\'d do it also. Hopefully, they will get you for piracy, though I don\'t think it\'d matter, as you are underage and your parents will end up havin\' to pay the lawsuit off.
Hey do I.
I\'d love to see them even try.
You know how many songs are downloaded a day? Using hundreds of programs? Its a slight chance they would bother calling up in Alaska or anything.
:rolleyes:
The cool thing? Jesus you think we are all mindless drones.
L-i-c, im sure its the "cool-thing" to say your doing the "cool-thing".
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No No Spudz, It\'s "the cool thing" to say it\'s all "teen angst" because they think it\'s "the cool thing"....Get me?
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Aren\'t mp3\'s encoded with digital sig\'s these days?
Adan, if you were to burn it to a CDR as an mp3 file, then the ownership would be on the actual mp3. Even if it was converted to standard CD format its still go encoding right?
Or am I totally wrong?
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Originally posted by Spudz
Hey do I.
I\'d love to see them even try.
You know how many songs are downloaded a day? Using hundreds of programs? Its a slight chance they would bother calling up in Alaska or anything.
:rolleyes:
The cool thing? Jesus you think we are all mindless drones.
L-i-c, im sure its the "cool-thing" to say your doing the "cool-thing".
You are a mindless drone. Ninety percent of the population is, so don\'t take offense. I just stated that your teen angst that comes through in almost any given post, is noticable.
It\'s okay though. We was all teenagers once. We was all ignorant and stupid. Just some more than others.
;)
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Me > Music Industry
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I can\'t understand those that defend the RIAA regarding file sharing. The muscian isn\'t the one hurt here as others have brought up - its the fat cat executives of the music corporations that are the ones losing money. How much of the CD sale actually goes to the musician and how much goes to the label?
Why would anyone want to defend them other than having a financial interest in the RIAA? As Coredweller has pointed out the RIAA continues to sell CD\'s at inflated prices so why don\'t we call the RIAA what it really is - a oligopoly. A oligopoly that can charge whatever they want for CD\'s.
Sure they are being "forced" to settle with people regarding overcharging in the form of a $20 check or a donation depending on how many people actually list themselves as a plantiff on the lawsuit. This is a slap on the hand, because in reality over the past decade they have made at least 20 times the amount they will have to settle for due to the pricing of their CD\'s.
LIC I find it ironic that you call most people in our society mindless drones, especially those that download music, yet you are the drone that is mindlessly following the will of a corporate giant who is using questionable tactics to enforce its will on consumers.
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You are a mindless drone. Ninety percent of the population is, so don\'t take offense. I just stated that your teen angst that comes through in almost any given post, is noticable.
It\'s okay though. We was all teenagers once. We was all ignorant and stupid. Just some more than others.
Im not a mindless drone, I know my whereabouts in this standing, I am the "prosecuted"
LIC- I think that you so judgmental you cant see another side to anything.
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You can call it "supporting the RIAA", just because I disagree with the fact you people look for ways to justify your theft. Which makes you no better than the common criminal. Constantly blaming someone else for your crimes.
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Is Epicrecords part of the RIAA? I hope not but I had to have some new Joe Satriani so I shelled out about $17 today.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
You can call it "supporting the RIAA", just because I disagree with the fact you people look for ways to justify your theft. Which makes you no better than the common criminal. Constantly blaming someone else for your crimes.
THAT\'S WERE YOU WRONG!!!!
Criminals tend to actually do physical work to steal. I just sit here and type and download. Criminals have alot of reasons to steal. It might be just for fun, a game, or a past time. Mostly thought it\'s poorness. So since im a common criminal. I blame it on poorness.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
THAT\'S WERE YOU WRONG!!!!
Criminals tend to actually do physical work to steal. I just sit here and type and download. Criminals have alot of reasons to steal. It might be just for fun, a game, or a past time. Mostly thought it\'s poorness. So since im a common criminal. I blame it on poorness.
Wrong... criminals come in all varieties. Haven\'t you ever heard of white collar crime? Embezzling money doesn\'t require physical work.
As far as the debate on labeling people "criminals" who download music goes... that is a bit extreme. The downloading of music pales in comparison to some of the real problems in this country and it surprises me to see you so passionate about this, when there are other more important issues than downloading some songs off of Kazaa. What the RIAA has been doing for years is technically criminal if you really want to get down to it. There are laws against monopolies in this country and as of now the Feds don\'t seem to want to address the fact that the RIAA has formed an organization that soley distributes and determines the prices of retail music.
Is it so hard to see that the solution the RIAA is pursuing is wrong. I would be more than happy to pay for songs individually - as long as I could do whatever I wanted with them (ie. burn them to CD\'s). I - tunes is a start, but if the RIAA really wanted to turn this around and gain the confidence and support of the consumer they would listen to what consumers want. I have no problem paying for songs that I like, but I will be damned if I am going to pay for $20 for 3 songs I like.
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In the RIAA\'s last announcement they said they are not targeting people who are downloading. They are targeting people who are sharing large numbers of mp3s over p2p ports. Even though they may legally own these files. Another reason why their actions are unconstitutional and harassment.
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Doesn\'t make sense....SO I can still download them and burn them just as long as I dont\' share them?
NICE!!!
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Petty theft is petty theft whether you punch a few keys or blow off the door to a safe. Fact of the matter is, whether it\'s easy or not does not diminish the fact that you committed a crime. I suppose there\'s a difference between me running someone over with a motorcycle as opposed to using a train right? I suppose I should only get a few years in prison because I used a bike, a rather less severe weapon, as opposed to a train which guaranteed certain doom where I would get a lethal injection?
The context of the crime may lessen the amount of justice applied. For example, a man stealing a loaf of bread for his starving family which, for the sake of arguement, costs 17.99 a loaf as opposed to a guy who steals a 17.99 cd for his own personal enjoyment. The crimes are the same, but the context in which they are committed allows jury\'s and the courts to be far more merciful in the long run provided you confess and allow the justice system to play its part.
Look, I\'m not trying to defend the RIAA here, but some of you honestly think that because the prices are high on a piece of entertainment, that stealing is perfectly alright and because it is easier nowadays thanks to the digital age we live in, the crime is somehow less severe. That is simply not the case. I am definitely against the high prices of CD\'s and against bands who are already paid well enough whether their CD sells or not, but I\'m not going to delude myself into thinking that because I stole a few songs off the Internet that I am somehow not committing a crime and instead fighting the good fight for... what-the-hell-ever.
It\'s just that simple.
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People that download songs are in the wrong. As is the RIAA for pursuing end-users in the federal court system. They allowed Napster to grow to the point that alot of people believe it is legal. I work with alot of older individuals that believe it is legal. All the lawsuits have accomplished in doing is confuse them more so.